WEBVTT - Chicago 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.196 --> 0:00:23.516 When Chicago released their debut album in nineteen sixty nine, they, 0:00:23.676 --> 0:00:26.236 along with bands like Blood, Sweat and Tears, Sligne, The 0:00:26.276 --> 0:00:29.436 Family Stone, and also James Brown and the JB's, We 0:00:29.556 --> 0:00:33.476 defined what a band could be, blending brass, jaz sophistication, 0:00:33.756 --> 0:00:37.956 and rock power into something completely unique. Over the next 0:00:37.956 --> 0:00:40.556 half century, the band became one of the most commercially 0:00:40.556 --> 0:00:43.156 successful acts in American music history, with a string of 0:00:43.236 --> 0:00:46.516 hits that remained staples of classic rock radio even today. 0:00:46.996 --> 0:00:50.676 By nineteen seventy five, when Chicago nine Chicago's Greatest Hits, arrived, 0:00:50.996 --> 0:00:54.316 the band had already amassed an extraordinary catalog of songs 0:00:54.316 --> 0:00:57.236 that captured both the experimental spirit of the late sixties 0:00:57.556 --> 0:01:01.396 with the pop sensibility of the seventies. That compilation became 0:01:01.476 --> 0:01:04.356 one of the best selling albums of the decade. Now 0:01:04.436 --> 0:01:07.916 Chicago is celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of that landmark release 0:01:07.956 --> 0:01:10.956 with an expanded edition that offers fans a deeper look 0:01:10.996 --> 0:01:14.396 at this pivotal moment in the band's history. On today's episode, 0:01:14.436 --> 0:01:17.196 Bruce Headlam talks to Lee Locknane and Jimmy Panco of 0:01:17.276 --> 0:01:21.076 Chicago about recording their early albums. They also discussed what 0:01:21.156 --> 0:01:24.236 inspired them to incorporate a horn section into a rock band, 0:01:24.716 --> 0:01:26.836 and they explained why after decades of been on the 0:01:26.876 --> 0:01:29.596 road since the late seventies, they don't even bother to 0:01:29.676 --> 0:01:36.636 unpack those suitcases anymore. This is broken record, real musicians, 0:01:36.876 --> 0:01:45.396 real conversations. Here's Bruce Headlam with Lee Locknane and Jimmy 0:01:45.436 --> 0:01:46.916 Panco of Chicago. 0:01:48.196 --> 0:01:54.276 We have Lee Locknane and Jimmy Panco. Hello, two of 0:01:54.316 --> 0:01:59.756 the original members of the Great band Chicago to composers, arrangers, 0:01:59.756 --> 0:02:03.396 but I think most importantly two members of the brass section, 0:02:03.596 --> 0:02:06.956 because that is what really drove so much of that 0:02:08.596 --> 0:02:10.436 horns with the horns. 0:02:10.476 --> 0:02:13.636 Actually hid one of the greatest guitar players away from 0:02:14.116 --> 0:02:15.596 being top. 0:02:15.436 --> 0:02:17.516 Ten recognized as a great guitar player. 0:02:17.556 --> 0:02:20.356 I think people recognize, well, they recognize him, but it 0:02:20.436 --> 0:02:24.276 was really he came in second to the brass when 0:02:24.316 --> 0:02:27.716 we were really up there popularity wise. 0:02:27.796 --> 0:02:31.596 And I do want to mention the third member of 0:02:31.996 --> 0:02:36.516 the National Brass Yes, Walter oh Walt Perizader. I feel 0:02:36.556 --> 0:02:40.076 he's here in spirit, yes, so we talk about all. 0:02:40.796 --> 0:02:43.996 You know, he was a big part of this. He 0:02:44.076 --> 0:02:47.836 actually came up with the idea you know that wound 0:02:47.956 --> 0:02:52.756 up becoming Chicago. We were students at Deepaul University and 0:02:53.356 --> 0:02:56.676 Walt and Danny Sarafin and Terry Cath were members of 0:02:56.716 --> 0:03:00.196 a club act that we're working at Chicago, which we're 0:03:00.276 --> 0:03:00.716 kind of. 0:03:00.596 --> 0:03:01.316 On the way out. 0:03:01.516 --> 0:03:05.436 And Walt knew Lee and I at Deepaul University and 0:03:05.956 --> 0:03:08.236 he approached us with this, Hey, you guys, what do 0:03:08.236 --> 0:03:10.956 you think about this idea? Because we used to go 0:03:11.036 --> 0:03:14.196 to the Pussycat and sit in with them. They were 0:03:14.276 --> 0:03:16.796 called the Missing Links, and Lee and I would go 0:03:16.876 --> 0:03:17.316 show up. 0:03:17.316 --> 0:03:21.036 I played every now and then. Yeah, what kinds where 0:03:21.036 --> 0:03:22.916 they play Top forty? Yeah? 0:03:23.396 --> 0:03:26.396 Yeah, everybody that played We played Top forty when we 0:03:26.476 --> 0:03:29.676 were We were a club act before we left to 0:03:29.756 --> 0:03:33.916 go to California to make records. But he approached us 0:03:33.916 --> 0:03:36.356 with this idea, what do you guys think about a 0:03:36.436 --> 0:03:40.676 rock and roll group with a horn section that's like 0:03:40.716 --> 0:03:41.636 a main character? 0:03:42.196 --> 0:03:42.396 You know? 0:03:42.476 --> 0:03:44.876 How can we We were thinking of going to Vegas 0:03:44.876 --> 0:03:49.276 and playing those like side clubs rather than the big rooms. 0:03:50.276 --> 0:03:53.796 And somebody told me that he got that idea from 0:03:53.836 --> 0:03:56.156 a Beatles song, Got to get You into My life? 0:03:56.196 --> 0:03:56.756 Is that true? 0:03:56.956 --> 0:03:58.436 Well? I don't know I don't know. 0:03:59.796 --> 0:04:01.636 We did a cover of Got to Get You Into 0:04:01.636 --> 0:04:04.876 My Life and the clubs as well as Magical Mystery 0:04:04.876 --> 0:04:09.796 Tour Little Help from My Friends, and I kind. 0:04:09.596 --> 0:04:11.676 Of recorded it me because I played bass on Little 0:04:11.676 --> 0:04:15.516 Help From As You did boo boom. 0:04:15.596 --> 0:04:18.676 Yeah, that was it true. He said from the beginning, 0:04:19.516 --> 0:04:20.596 it'll be a democracy. 0:04:21.636 --> 0:04:24.116 Yes, well, we all thought the same thing. We just 0:04:24.156 --> 0:04:26.316 shook hands and let's do this. 0:04:26.556 --> 0:04:29.596 We met wals apartment and agreed to devote all our 0:04:29.716 --> 0:04:31.396 energy and time to this idea. 0:04:31.996 --> 0:04:33.876 And you know we should. 0:04:34.876 --> 0:04:37.276 Yeah, And he said you can only leave two ways, 0:04:37.276 --> 0:04:38.356 you ask out or you die. 0:04:38.916 --> 0:04:43.196 Right, Yeah, A little final for me. 0:04:43.556 --> 0:04:46.476 Yeah, yeah, Well I'll want a decision by the end 0:04:46.476 --> 0:04:48.556 of the podcast for both of you. Guys. 0:04:49.316 --> 0:04:50.516 What are you going to do next? 0:04:50.636 --> 0:04:53.596 Yeah? So you are in New York. Your Chicago band 0:04:53.676 --> 0:04:56.996 you you Mad you Bones in LA. But New York 0:04:57.116 --> 0:05:00.516 is where you recorded I think your first two albums. Yeah, 0:05:00.716 --> 0:05:03.636 you have fond memories of New York. I was a 0:05:03.636 --> 0:05:05.596 fifty second What kind of studio is that? 0:05:05.996 --> 0:05:09.556 It was a multi story office building and they had 0:05:09.596 --> 0:05:13.796 several studios on several floors and uh we. 0:05:13.916 --> 0:05:18.396 Food aid shift and Simon and Garfunkel had it at 0:05:18.556 --> 0:05:18.996 the day. 0:05:21.036 --> 0:05:24.156 Yeah, we were We were the new guys, so they 0:05:24.196 --> 0:05:27.676 gave us the graveyard shift. Simon and garfunk recorded all 0:05:27.796 --> 0:05:31.316 day and then we started recording at midnight and wound 0:05:31.396 --> 0:05:32.756 up going back to the hotel. 0:05:32.836 --> 0:05:35.156 The only people on the street were the garbage drugs. 0:05:35.756 --> 0:05:38.236 Go back to the hotel with a triple decker sandwich 0:05:38.276 --> 0:05:39.836 and you never good to go. 0:05:40.036 --> 0:05:41.556 Oh yeah, the stage deli. 0:05:41.676 --> 0:05:44.596 Oh yeah, And did you meet with Simon and Garfunkel 0:05:44.636 --> 0:05:45.356 while you were there? Did you? 0:05:45.556 --> 0:05:48.916 Actually? I never saw. I'm met Art in the elevator. 0:05:49.036 --> 0:05:53.156 Really yeah. I was coming to work and he was leaving. Yeah. 0:05:53.396 --> 0:05:56.796 Yeah, we just had kind of two ships in the night, 0:05:56.956 --> 0:05:58.636 you know, but we did. 0:05:58.956 --> 0:06:01.436 You know, Jimmy. 0:06:01.076 --> 0:06:05.836 Gercio was producing us, and he got close to Roy 0:06:05.876 --> 0:06:09.996 Hallie who was producing Simon and Garfriend and they traded 0:06:10.036 --> 0:06:13.756 notes and Roy actually came down and assisted in some 0:06:13.836 --> 0:06:15.836 of the recording techniques. 0:06:16.476 --> 0:06:17.276 No, no kidding. 0:06:17.596 --> 0:06:21.636 Yeah, he added some of his expertise, and he also 0:06:21.716 --> 0:06:23.596 knew the board at CBS very well. 0:06:23.916 --> 0:06:28.076 Well, he knew the board, but he wasn't ready for 0:06:28.476 --> 0:06:32.356 rookies to come in. He left the project pretty quickly 0:06:32.436 --> 0:06:35.516 because we were learning how to record. We knew how 0:06:35.556 --> 0:06:38.316 to play these songs backwards and forwards because we'd been 0:06:38.996 --> 0:06:42.116 working with them in the various clubs that we played, 0:06:42.676 --> 0:06:45.276 but we had to learn how to record, how far 0:06:45.316 --> 0:06:48.276 to stand away from them, you know, being worried about 0:06:48.316 --> 0:06:51.196 Oh my god, I can't make a mistake because this microphone, 0:06:51.236 --> 0:06:52.836 the thing is in my way here. 0:06:53.396 --> 0:06:56.676 Yeah, it was quite intimidating, you know. And I say this, 0:06:57.036 --> 0:07:00.636 you know, in performance, knowing that this was going on 0:07:00.796 --> 0:07:01.596 tape forever. 0:07:02.196 --> 0:07:03.396 We better do this right. 0:07:04.276 --> 0:07:07.436 But you had producers to set up the room. Oh sure, 0:07:07.756 --> 0:07:09.876 but still it took a lot of figuring out. 0:07:09.916 --> 0:07:13.036 It's just a matter of the actual playing the instrument 0:07:13.196 --> 0:07:17.036 to that thing and then going into the control room 0:07:17.116 --> 0:07:19.876 and listening to it backing on. Oh so I have 0:07:19.956 --> 0:07:23.516 to step back a little bit on this to do 0:07:23.596 --> 0:07:26.916 a better blend, a natural blend. I mean, they can 0:07:26.956 --> 0:07:31.356 do it electronically and with the with the everything inside 0:07:31.356 --> 0:07:34.876 the control room, but it's better if we control ourselves. 0:07:34.996 --> 0:07:38.196 We had, Yeah, we kind of had to mix ourselves 0:07:38.236 --> 0:07:41.076 in the room, you know, to get the right blend 0:07:41.436 --> 0:07:43.796 in the section, especially when you do an overdub. 0:07:44.436 --> 0:07:47.236 Now, when you recorded back then would you do the 0:07:47.236 --> 0:07:49.836 the rhythm tracks first? Would you do the piano and 0:07:49.876 --> 0:07:50.836 then add the horns? 0:07:50.956 --> 0:07:55.596 Well, it was a progressive process. We actually started recording 0:07:55.876 --> 0:07:58.236 with the whole band in the room, you know, you know, 0:07:58.556 --> 0:08:02.316 we live track because we would realize that we needed 0:08:02.316 --> 0:08:05.636 to isolate things because if somebody were to stay it 0:08:05.716 --> 0:08:07.636 was audible on every instrument. 0:08:08.036 --> 0:08:09.356 Yeah, we were doing We. 0:08:09.236 --> 0:08:13.316 Were doing isolation already, we had stuff in between us, 0:08:13.316 --> 0:08:16.836 so it would lessen that problem. But we were able 0:08:16.876 --> 0:08:19.156 to record with the brass because we were going to 0:08:19.156 --> 0:08:21.996 play the same notes on the song, so when we 0:08:22.036 --> 0:08:25.196 did it on our own, the bleed through wasn't going 0:08:25.236 --> 0:08:25.636 to matter. 0:08:26.356 --> 0:08:30.396 But you know, interestingly enough, you know, the technology wasn't 0:08:30.436 --> 0:08:33.836 available in those days. We recorded on eight tracks, and 0:08:33.876 --> 0:08:37.516 they only had so much they could do with so 0:08:37.796 --> 0:08:44.316 little room, so we utilized various rooms. We actually recorded 0:08:44.676 --> 0:08:47.396 does anybody really time it as an introduction in the church. 0:08:48.156 --> 0:08:53.516 They used a cathedral downtown, I don't know which one 0:08:54.076 --> 0:08:59.396 with a high ceiling and it created a natural room 0:08:59.556 --> 0:09:03.236 echo that we couldn't get on the board because we 0:09:03.276 --> 0:09:07.076 didn't have the technology, So we used the church to 0:09:07.396 --> 0:09:10.556 That's how you get it. That's why those cuts on 0:09:10.676 --> 0:09:15.396 Chicago Transit Authority had that big room sound because of 0:09:15.436 --> 0:09:18.276 the the nature of the room that we recorded in. 0:09:18.436 --> 0:09:20.916 How many of those tracks did you record at the church? 0:09:21.636 --> 0:09:22.876 I know we did those two. 0:09:22.956 --> 0:09:26.836 We might have done questions there too, I think we did. 0:09:27.076 --> 0:09:28.036 We did. 0:09:28.316 --> 0:09:31.916 But Simon and garfunk Cal, you know, got busy and 0:09:31.956 --> 0:09:36.076 busy and busier, and we went to a smaller room 0:09:36.156 --> 0:09:40.116 on the second floor with Studio B and we had to, 0:09:40.596 --> 0:09:44.556 you know, kind of reapproach everything all over again. It 0:09:44.596 --> 0:09:48.796 was a different parameter in terms of acoustics. I remember 0:09:49.436 --> 0:09:53.756 on Make Me Smile, Gercio had me go in the bathroom. 0:09:54.356 --> 0:09:57.236 They ran a mike cable into the bathroom and I 0:09:57.356 --> 0:10:02.076 was whacking the toilet seat with a newspaper to fatten 0:10:02.156 --> 0:10:02.676 the snare. 0:10:04.436 --> 0:10:07.516 I mean, we you know, we used tricks like what 0:10:07.676 --> 0:10:08.036 you had. 0:10:08.436 --> 0:10:10.196 You can get away a lot of stuff, and it's 0:10:10.236 --> 0:10:11.676 just you know, creative. 0:10:12.516 --> 0:10:16.036 We should do business first before we talk. 0:10:16.156 --> 0:10:16.916 The business is. 0:10:17.236 --> 0:10:21.196 The business is you put out one of the best 0:10:21.196 --> 0:10:26.396 selling greatest hits collections of all time, which was Chicago nine. 0:10:26.476 --> 0:10:29.156 All right, and if you like the songs on it 0:10:29.196 --> 0:10:33.116 are just all these incredible classics. You're re releasing a 0:10:33.156 --> 0:10:33.676 new version. 0:10:33.956 --> 0:10:35.636 Yeah, it's the fiftieth anniversary. 0:10:35.636 --> 0:10:36.716 Fiftieth anniversary. 0:10:36.956 --> 0:10:40.076 Yeah, it's a re release of the greatest Hits with 0:10:40.756 --> 0:10:41.876 twenty one tracks. 0:10:42.436 --> 0:10:44.516 The original was eleven, I think. 0:10:44.516 --> 0:10:48.916 Yeah, Yeah, And we threw a bunch more songs on 0:10:48.956 --> 0:10:52.516 the re release, including the first eight albums and then 0:10:52.556 --> 0:10:56.196 even some cuts from Chicago ten which follows. 0:10:56.636 --> 0:10:59.116 Yeah. Do you listen to the remixes? Do you like 0:10:59.156 --> 0:10:59.676 what you hear? 0:11:00.356 --> 0:11:01.316 Sure? You know. 0:11:01.396 --> 0:11:04.716 The thing is that we've heard them so many times, 0:11:05.036 --> 0:11:09.116 and when we play them live now, when we go back, 0:11:09.116 --> 0:11:11.596 I can listen to at least when I go back 0:11:11.636 --> 0:11:15.156 and listen to the original recordings, I realize how much 0:11:15.236 --> 0:11:21.556 we have developed the songs even further through the years. 0:11:21.996 --> 0:11:25.236 It's amazing to me that it's not quite exactly the 0:11:25.276 --> 0:11:28.236 same as what it was when we recorded. We're doing 0:11:28.676 --> 0:11:32.676 a little some different harmonies, we're doing a little different breaks, 0:11:33.396 --> 0:11:33.596 you know. 0:11:33.676 --> 0:11:38.916 It's just is that interesting? It was organic? 0:11:39.156 --> 0:11:43.076 Yeah. I also want to mention this is your fifty 0:11:43.436 --> 0:11:47.716 eighth consecutive year of touring, Yes, which is staggered. You've 0:11:47.756 --> 0:11:51.036 toured every year, every year, every year, even through COVID, well, 0:11:51.076 --> 0:11:51.716 even through. 0:11:51.556 --> 0:11:54.916 COVID well we worked the first two months of COVID 0:11:54.996 --> 0:11:57.236 up until we were working in Las Vegas. 0:11:57.436 --> 0:11:59.516 Vegas. We were the last stand on the strip. 0:11:59.996 --> 0:12:01.676 Oh really, Yeah, it's great. 0:12:01.916 --> 0:12:03.956 Rod start was at the Coliseum and we were at 0:12:03.956 --> 0:12:09.356 the Venetian and it was Saturday night, March. 0:12:10.236 --> 0:12:11.836 Seventeen, I think it was the sixteenth. 0:12:12.076 --> 0:12:16.236 Yeah, And I got in the car to fly home 0:12:16.356 --> 0:12:19.556 the next Sunday morning. The driver turn around, looked at 0:12:19.596 --> 0:12:22.276 me and say, good thing, you're leaving. Vegas is going 0:12:22.316 --> 0:12:25.236 down to five percent occupancy tomorrow. It's going to be 0:12:25.276 --> 0:12:26.036 a ghost town. 0:12:26.636 --> 0:12:28.756 So wow, we got the heck out of town. 0:12:29.356 --> 0:12:30.476 But it was pretty wild. 0:12:30.596 --> 0:12:32.836 It was very weird, and we actually thought we were 0:12:32.876 --> 0:12:34.956 going to go back to work real quick, that it 0:12:35.036 --> 0:12:37.196 was going to be everybody two or three weeks and 0:12:37.276 --> 0:12:38.196 may we're back. 0:12:38.596 --> 0:12:40.716 Do you remember was there something odd about that last 0:12:40.716 --> 0:12:43.876 show was where people already talking and thinking about COVID. 0:12:44.396 --> 0:12:46.756 For us, it was business as usual, the same thing 0:12:46.876 --> 0:12:50.596 we just do. That was yeah, and then next thing 0:12:50.636 --> 0:12:53.756 you know, we were off the road. Everybody was off 0:12:53.796 --> 0:12:58.116 the road. Yeah, it was a complete shutdown, but we 0:12:58.116 --> 0:13:00.636 were one of the first people to go back with 0:13:00.716 --> 0:13:02.076 June of twenty. 0:13:04.596 --> 0:13:08.716 June of twenty one, we were off for a whole 0:13:08.716 --> 0:13:09.596 fifteen months. 0:13:09.596 --> 0:13:12.436 Oh yeah, right, right, okay. 0:13:11.996 --> 0:13:15.476 So we worked each year. We worked the beginning of 0:13:15.516 --> 0:13:19.156 the year in twenty twenty, and then the world shut down, 0:13:19.676 --> 0:13:22.396 and then we came back as soon as we possibly could. 0:13:22.436 --> 0:13:24.236 We kept trying to go back on the road, but 0:13:24.716 --> 0:13:26.756 nobody was over up their buildings. 0:13:27.356 --> 0:13:29.916 Yeah, but yeah, yeah, I'm being home that long was 0:13:29.956 --> 0:13:32.236 strange because we were never home that long. 0:13:32.276 --> 0:13:35.516 Other than COVID. What is the longest time you took 0:13:35.516 --> 0:13:37.196 away from the road as manned. 0:13:37.036 --> 0:13:38.236 Probably six months? 0:13:38.636 --> 0:13:41.436 Really really, it just never gets tired. 0:13:41.476 --> 0:13:45.756 I stopped unpecking. Yeah, I'm always backed. Yeah too. 0:13:45.916 --> 0:13:48.156 I take the dirty clothes out, clean them, put them 0:13:48.196 --> 0:13:51.516 back in the bag, exactly, wait to leave from the environment. 0:13:51.716 --> 0:13:55.396 You know, we're always ready to go to the next fire. 0:13:55.236 --> 0:13:58.876 Slide down the pole, when the when the Chicago signal 0:13:58.916 --> 0:14:01.756 goes off in the sky. 0:14:00.676 --> 0:14:04.436 Exactly, and they're still coming. You know, they were sold 0:14:04.476 --> 0:14:08.076 out every night. It's it's a it's a phenomenon we 0:14:08.156 --> 0:14:11.836 never ever expect, did you know? You see four generations 0:14:11.836 --> 0:14:15.596 in the audience and they're all they're all grooving on 0:14:15.636 --> 0:14:16.396 their own level. 0:14:16.596 --> 0:14:19.436 That's amazing. Okay, I'm gonna do something that I never do, 0:14:20.756 --> 0:14:22.796 because you were just mentioning that first. 0:14:22.476 --> 0:14:25.356 Album and I'm I'm. 0:14:25.236 --> 0:14:27.396 Not gonna I've never done that, but no, I'm just 0:14:27.396 --> 0:14:41.116 gonna play. I wanted to play till to that last 0:14:41.556 --> 0:14:47.116 little becomes a horn fill throughout the whole song, just 0:14:47.156 --> 0:14:49.116 because that to me, if if you could just play 0:14:49.156 --> 0:14:52.116 that five seconds to someone, they would just go, that's 0:14:52.236 --> 0:14:53.596 that is to me, that's Chicagoe. 0:14:53.636 --> 0:14:54.556 I can name that too. 0:14:54.916 --> 0:14:58.876 You can name that tone, name that band. So, now, 0:14:58.916 --> 0:15:00.796 this was not a song you guys wrote. 0:15:01.396 --> 0:15:03.356 Robert wrote it, Robert Liam wrote that. 0:15:03.436 --> 0:15:08.956 Yes, and so because you had multiple composers, what was 0:15:08.996 --> 0:15:12.116 the what was the process for introducing songs to the band? 0:15:12.276 --> 0:15:14.476 Did you have something formal? Do you all sit down? 0:15:14.956 --> 0:15:16.196 We just brought songs in. 0:15:16.476 --> 0:15:20.156 You know, you do a demo and you know you 0:15:20.276 --> 0:15:26.916 sing a rough guide lead into the tape machine with 0:15:27.476 --> 0:15:31.116 the piano part. As you're saying it, that was a demo. 0:15:31.356 --> 0:15:34.196 Now it's a record. You know, people were making records 0:15:34.196 --> 0:15:39.716 for demos, and I remember bringing you know, I wrote 0:15:39.836 --> 0:15:42.276 just you and me and I brought it in. We 0:15:42.276 --> 0:15:45.916 were at Caribou Ranch and the guys were all there, 0:15:45.956 --> 0:15:48.716 and I brought the song in and you know, again 0:15:48.796 --> 0:15:51.116 it was the cassette with You and My Love and 0:15:51.236 --> 0:15:56.596 my Life with acoustic piano, and you know, we put 0:15:56.596 --> 0:15:59.356 it in the machine in the booth and everybody listened 0:15:59.396 --> 0:16:01.996 to it. I said, is this any good? And Robert 0:16:02.076 --> 0:16:05.036 looked at me. He said, Jimmy, that's a hit song. 0:16:05.356 --> 0:16:09.636 I went, really yeah, And so you know, I didn't know. 0:16:10.556 --> 0:16:12.996 It was a personal experience at the piano, just like 0:16:13.236 --> 0:16:14.676 when Lee writes his song. 0:16:14.836 --> 0:16:17.596 We and we just we would bring what we had 0:16:17.796 --> 0:16:18.716 into the room. 0:16:18.956 --> 0:16:23.436 And everybody kind of voted on it, you know, and 0:16:23.476 --> 0:16:27.236 the song really didn't come alive until everybody in the 0:16:27.316 --> 0:16:30.996 band added their special magic to it individually. 0:16:31.036 --> 0:16:32.916 Well, this is what I'm interested in this song in 0:16:32.996 --> 0:16:37.996 particular because to me, it's it's such a great encapsulation 0:16:38.196 --> 0:16:42.196 of your music. Then you god, chord changes, key changes, 0:16:43.036 --> 0:16:48.316 tempo changes, I mean, everything is constantly moving. For example, 0:16:48.556 --> 0:16:52.516 the brass stuff, those brass, the stabs off the start, 0:16:53.076 --> 0:16:55.956 that great rift towards the end. Like was that part 0:16:55.996 --> 0:16:58.556 of what Robert brought in or was that something you 0:16:58.596 --> 0:17:00.156 guys added? How did that work? 0:17:00.396 --> 0:17:05.196 Robert actually arranged his own horns back. Is that right? 0:17:05.276 --> 0:17:06.756 Anybody really? Time it is? 0:17:07.476 --> 0:17:12.676 Beginnings, students, those are no. I did questions, but he did. 0:17:12.956 --> 0:17:15.276 He did beginnings. He did does anybody real any time? 0:17:15.276 --> 0:17:15.516 It is? 0:17:15.556 --> 0:17:18.796 He did dialogue and quite a few others, and I 0:17:19.276 --> 0:17:23.436 kept in current, Man, Robert, you arrange some great stuff. Man, 0:17:23.516 --> 0:17:26.116 you should keep going with this. But he realized how 0:17:26.156 --> 0:17:27.036 difficult it was. 0:17:27.076 --> 0:17:30.556 He had Jimmy just killing me. 0:17:31.076 --> 0:17:34.876 Yeah, okay, So those were his those were his ideas. 0:17:34.876 --> 0:17:35.476 That's amazing. 0:17:35.716 --> 0:17:36.076 Beginning. 0:17:37.196 --> 0:17:40.036 There were there were occasions that I had to come 0:17:40.076 --> 0:17:46.636 in and revoice things because he wasn't particularly adept at 0:17:46.756 --> 0:17:51.916 voicing because it wasn't his thing. So he'd write the charts, 0:17:52.316 --> 0:17:57.276 which are his arrangements, and I just revoice him to, uh, 0:17:57.796 --> 0:17:59.956 capture the essence of the section. 0:18:00.316 --> 0:18:02.796 So tell me what that means revoicing it in terms 0:18:02.796 --> 0:18:03.556 of the well. 0:18:03.356 --> 0:18:08.396 You know, typically, you know, I kind of inherited the 0:18:08.516 --> 0:18:12.956 chair for or creating this approach to the horns. And 0:18:13.956 --> 0:18:17.796 uh maybe because you know, I played trombone. What I 0:18:17.876 --> 0:18:24.876 was hearing was a trombone lead. Yeah, so you know 0:18:25.556 --> 0:18:30.756 the trombone because it's a baritone instrument, and the trumpet 0:18:30.796 --> 0:18:32.236 and the sacks are above it. 0:18:32.836 --> 0:18:35.316 If I voiced it. 0:18:34.796 --> 0:18:38.916 By nature of the instrument, the disparity and the voices 0:18:39.036 --> 0:18:42.956 would not be cool. It wouldn't be the equanimity of 0:18:42.996 --> 0:18:45.756 the voicing would not happen, you know. So I had 0:18:45.756 --> 0:18:46.596 to I. 0:18:46.516 --> 0:18:48.756 Had to play up an active basically. Yeah. 0:18:48.796 --> 0:18:54.476 So you know, Yeah, is basically in the upper register 0:18:54.636 --> 0:18:58.116 for a lot of the charts, and the trumpet is 0:18:58.156 --> 0:19:01.436 in the middle, and then the sacks is right there 0:19:01.636 --> 0:19:05.116 in the middle between the trumpet and the trombone, so 0:19:05.196 --> 0:19:07.476 it tightens the voicing. 0:19:07.996 --> 0:19:09.956 Was the was the trumpet amos always on top? 0:19:10.356 --> 0:19:13.156 Well, there's there are times of times the trumpet, Yeah, 0:19:13.196 --> 0:19:14.516 it leaves upstairs too. 0:19:14.796 --> 0:19:16.876 Yeah, you know, it isn't always like that. 0:19:16.956 --> 0:19:23.996 But in terms of just the typical accompaniment with the vocals, right, yeah, 0:19:24.036 --> 0:19:27.636 the section is more tight. The voicing is tight, so 0:19:27.716 --> 0:19:31.916 it has more of a punch, you know. And then 0:19:31.956 --> 0:19:35.076 we overdob and we put the trumpet upstairs on the 0:19:35.156 --> 0:19:37.676 on the double, and we put the bone, I do 0:19:37.756 --> 0:19:40.876 the pedals on the bone, and we might. 0:19:40.716 --> 0:19:45.436 Play a wide triad, but then let the rhythm section 0:19:45.596 --> 0:19:53.156 play the color notes, the sevens extensions. 0:19:53.556 --> 0:19:59.436 That's the conundrum when we're playing live, you have to 0:19:59.516 --> 0:20:03.636 pick there's only three of us, Okay, in live performance. 0:20:04.516 --> 0:20:07.596 In the studio we had the luxury of overdobing of 0:20:07.716 --> 0:20:11.196 multi so we could we could add all those extensions 0:20:11.356 --> 0:20:15.036 in the second take or even the third take. Sometimes 0:20:15.116 --> 0:20:18.916 we tripled if we wanted really a big sound. But 0:20:19.076 --> 0:20:22.676 live there's only three of us, So it's very important 0:20:23.116 --> 0:20:26.676 to be economically precise. You have to pick just the 0:20:26.756 --> 0:20:31.876 right three voices to express the nature of the chord. 0:20:32.236 --> 0:20:35.276 If it's a seven chord or a nine chord, you're 0:20:35.316 --> 0:20:37.276 not going to just play the root and the third 0:20:37.276 --> 0:20:40.156 and the fifth. You need to play those extensions to 0:20:40.396 --> 0:20:43.396 paint the right colors of that extended chord. 0:20:43.636 --> 0:20:47.036 And you'd hope that the base or somebody else was filled. 0:20:47.076 --> 0:20:50.196 Well, yeah, yeah, you'll leave yeah, you leave the guts 0:20:50.196 --> 0:20:51.116 to the rhythm section. 0:20:51.196 --> 0:20:54.516 But you're saying sometimes you guys would play chord tones 0:20:54.636 --> 0:20:57.756 and leave the color notes to sure the rest of 0:20:57.796 --> 0:21:02.916 the band. To me, that famous riff phil at the 0:21:03.036 --> 0:21:06.796 end of what I just played, it's got the it's 0:21:06.996 --> 0:21:09.636 the Is that the trumpet on top doing hitting the 0:21:09.636 --> 0:21:14.476 single note? Yes, and then there's the trombone in the sacks. 0:21:14.516 --> 0:21:18.156 Are oh bo. 0:21:18.796 --> 0:21:20.996 Yeah, are they playing the same note orre they playing 0:21:21.036 --> 0:21:21.676 different notes? 0:21:21.756 --> 0:21:23.396 Different notes? Different notes? 0:21:23.476 --> 0:21:25.356 Okay, were they in maybe thirds or something? 0:21:25.476 --> 0:21:28.476 They're playing thirds. I'm playing at the top note b 0:21:29.916 --> 0:21:31.516 b b B. 0:21:33.916 --> 0:21:34.236 Chord. 0:21:34.836 --> 0:21:37.876 Wow. Wow, But this is the way Robert wanted it. 0:21:38.236 --> 0:21:42.276 Yeah, yeah, I got a kick out of his A 0:21:42.316 --> 0:21:43.156 lot of his voicing. 0:21:43.196 --> 0:21:45.516 I left alone because it was really great. 0:21:45.916 --> 0:21:48.156 Yeah, it's just simple to the point. 0:21:48.156 --> 0:21:52.396 I mean, I have to be at beginnings. Be let 0:21:52.516 --> 0:21:55.956 it live, let it. 0:21:56.476 --> 0:22:00.676