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Speaker 1: Welcome, fellow conspiracy realist to our classic episode for today.

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Speaker 1: Just a quick heads up, this episode does contain descriptions

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Speaker 1: of abuse, descriptions of manipulation and cover ups. As such,

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Speaker 1: it may not be appropriate for all listeners, but we

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Speaker 1: believe this story is important. Matt. You remember several years

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Speaker 1: back when we recorded this we talked not just about

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Speaker 1: the predator Harvey Weinstein, we also talked about the systemic

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Speaker 1: cover ups of abuse in Hollywood.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a wide ranging discussion about what it

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Speaker 2: used to take to make it in Hollywood and the

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Speaker 2: system that was in place there of abuse. Some of

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Speaker 2: the folks, not everybody, but some of the folks at

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Speaker 2: the top of these major organizations knew that they had

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Speaker 2: the power and they used it in really nefarious, messed

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Speaker 2: up ways.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, this system continues in many ways today, which

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Speaker 1: is part of the reason we are airing this classic episode.

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Speaker 1: We would love to hear your thoughts.

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Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 3: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: My name is Noah.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are with our super producer

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Speaker 1: Paul Dekkins. You are you and that makes this stuff.

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Speaker 1: They don't want you to know. Today's episode will just

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Speaker 1: cut straight to the chase. Is about an epidemic in

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Speaker 1: Hollywood that has existed for a very very long time,

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Speaker 1: longer than anyone listening to the show today has been

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Speaker 1: alive unless they are more than a century old. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about the epidemic of sexual abuse in Hollywood, as

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Speaker 1: well as the long running, active conspiracy to aid and

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Speaker 1: a bet the perpetrators of these crimes while punishing, suppressing, blackballing,

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Speaker 1: and dismissing their victims.

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Speaker 4: And that's the kicker here. This is the very definition

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Speaker 4: of a conspiracy. It's something that's been swept under the rug,

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Speaker 4: whether actively or just through inaction, for decades.

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Speaker 2: And because there are powerful people involved who have connections

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Speaker 2: in places that would be important to have if you

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Speaker 2: were going to create a conspiracy such as this.

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Speaker 4: And I just want to say that for me personally,

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Speaker 4: and I think you guys would probably agree, is I

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Speaker 4: just want to be an ally to the folks that

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Speaker 4: have experienced this kind of abuse and discuss it in

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Speaker 4: as matter of fact a way as possible and put

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Speaker 4: this information out there for folks that maybe don't know

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Speaker 4: the depths of it. But we are going to get

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Speaker 4: into some descriptions of behavior that is both aberrant and

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Speaker 4: possibly triggering.

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Speaker 5: So just warning you right now.

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Speaker 1: Agreed and well said, we want to caution all listeners

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Speaker 1: that this episode does contain reports of abuse and may

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Speaker 1: not be suitable for all audiences. Additionally, we have, over

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Speaker 1: the lifetime of this show, we have we have covered

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Speaker 1: things that may sound you know, silly or reverent, but

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Speaker 1: we consider this a moral imperative on our part. And uh,

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Speaker 1: it's no secret that Hollywood is by and large often

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Speaker 1: seen as a sleazy place.

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Speaker 5: And although we always.

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Speaker 1: Want to avoid painting things with an overly broad brush,

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Speaker 1: Tinseltown has to a degree earned this reputation, a large degree.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this thing you may have heard of called

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Speaker 2: the casting couch, and this is a tactic that's been

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Speaker 2: around for the past century. It's it's the practice where

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Speaker 2: a pretty user or director, or someone who is high

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Speaker 2: up in the industry, in the movie industry in particular,

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Speaker 2: will demand or perhaps even hint at, sexual favors in

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Speaker 2: exchange for a role in a film or for even

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Speaker 2: a TV commercial or anything really, and they will try

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Speaker 2: and get these favors from aspiring actors. That's probably the

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Speaker 2: most vulnerable people who are hungry and getting into the industry,

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Speaker 2: as well as established, well known actors who are trying

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Speaker 2: to reignite their career or something or.

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Speaker 5: Even just go to the next level, you know, in

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Speaker 5: their career. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and not just actors, of course, we're also talking

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Speaker 1: about members of production crews. We're talking about anyone that

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Speaker 1: could be involved in this industry.

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Speaker 4: And that casting cast situation is so insidious because it

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Speaker 4: almost it doesn't require implicit requesting of a sexual act

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Speaker 4: It doesn't you know, have to come out.

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Speaker 5: And say it.

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Speaker 4: It's a lot out of it is implied with subtext,

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Speaker 4: and there is this underlying sense that if I don't

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Speaker 4: do this in one way or another, I am not

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Speaker 4: going to get this job, or I am going to

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Speaker 4: be mistreated in some way or blacklisted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that real fear of being blacklisted is something that's

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Speaker 2: that we're going to see play out throughout the story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a very rational fear because it does happen.

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Speaker 1: It is most terrifyingly happening to people. As we sit

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Speaker 1: in the studio today. It's often said that some people

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Speaker 1: will do almost anything in the pursuit of fame and

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Speaker 1: or power. But it's also true that people who acquire

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Speaker 1: massive amounts of fame and power often have very little

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Speaker 1: oversight regarding how they choose to wield it.

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Speaker 2: We have an example here from one of the strongest

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Speaker 2: voices I think in dealing with this subject, Amber Tamlin.

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Speaker 2: She wrote in The New York Times on September sixteenth,

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Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. She says, for women in America who come

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Speaker 2: forward with stories of harassment, abuse, and sexual assault, there

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Speaker 2: are not two sides to every story. However noble that

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Speaker 2: principle might seem. Women do not get to have a side.

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Speaker 2: They get to have an interrogation. Too often they are

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Speaker 2: questioned mercilessly about whether their side is legitimate, especially if

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Speaker 2: that side happens to accuse a man of stature. Then

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Speaker 2: that woman has to consider the scrutiny and repercussions she'll

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Speaker 2: be subjected to by sharing her side.

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Speaker 1: And of course we would be remiss if we did

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Speaker 1: not establish that this is not something that is solely

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Speaker 1: limited to women.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, but very much the majority of people experiencing this.

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Speaker 4: Are women, and that power dynamic that we're talking about

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Speaker 4: is has a legacy, you know, I mean of these

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Speaker 4: you think about these executives, these powerful male, kind of

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Speaker 4: dominating figures that own the town, and that has just

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Speaker 4: been perpetuated over time.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and abusers, depending upon their position, were historically protected

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Speaker 1: and currently protected by powerful interests who often worked not

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Speaker 1: only to keep the story out of the press, but

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Speaker 1: also to keep these criminals out of jails where they

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Speaker 1: inarguably belonged. The situation appeared to change, or begin to

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Speaker 1: change over the course of twenty seventeen. Prominent performers and

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Speaker 1: executives who were once protected by this invisible system of

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Speaker 1: power and influence found their victims speaking out, fighting back,

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Speaker 1: and the crimes of these formerly untouchable individual's surface without

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Speaker 1: suppression into the public sphere. Today, we're exploring this phenomenon

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Speaker 1: to see how what was once most definitely the stuff

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Speaker 1: Hollywood doesn't want you to know, has finally gained mainstream

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Speaker 1: recognition as the dire epidemic that it is. And along

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Speaker 1: the way, we'll investigate several specific cases.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to look at names like Harvey Weinstein,

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Speaker 2: which kind of kicked off this whole thing Bill Cosby,

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Speaker 2: which was even before that, that kind of maybe led

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Speaker 2: to that breaking point.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting that Bill Cosby sort of felt like his

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Speaker 4: own case where it was, you know, this very wholesome

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Speaker 4: seeming man had done all of these horrible things behind

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Speaker 4: closed doors. But Weinstein really cracked it open because he

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Speaker 4: represents something else that had It's I don't know Cosby too.

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Speaker 5: I mean, he was a producer.

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Speaker 4: He abused many people that were seeking to work with

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Speaker 4: him and for him. But for some reason, when the

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Speaker 4: Weinstein revelations came about, everyone started coming forward.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it represented the larger structure of Hollywood, and it's

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Speaker 2: not that much different with Louis c. K He's another person.

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Speaker 2: We're going to look at a producer and director and

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Speaker 2: somebody who has a lot of control, and we're going

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Speaker 2: to look at a lot more people as well. And

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Speaker 2: we're also going to briefly touch on the historical allegations

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Speaker 2: which were again for decades somewhat ignored by the mainstream

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Speaker 2: press and at least a lot of times kept out

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Speaker 2: of the court system.

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Speaker 1: I would say even worse than a crime of negligence

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Speaker 1: or neglect on the part of the press is the

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Speaker 1: crime of active attacking. And we'll end on some questions

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Speaker 1: as well, not just who knew what and when, and

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Speaker 1: not just what Hollywood as a whole will do in

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Speaker 1: support of the victims, both unknown and known, but will

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Speaker 1: also ask what happens next, Will anything actually permanently significantly change?

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Speaker 1: And here are the facts. As we record this episode,

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Speaker 1: over thirty prominent men from various entertainment industries have been

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Speaker 1: accused of sexual misconduct, harassment, assault, and rape. We have

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Speaker 1: specific examples from Hollywood, and perhaps we should start with

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Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein.

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Speaker 2: The allegations against Harvey Weinstein date back decades. There are

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Speaker 2: early reports We're talking very early, all the way back

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Speaker 2: to the nineteen seventies, and they kind of continued bit

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Speaker 2: by bit throughout the years. Then in October of twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: the New York Times published allegations of sexual harassment and

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Speaker 2: assault against this gentleman. And currently, as we are recording

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Speaker 2: this episode, they're around thirty prominent actors and over eighty

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Speaker 2: women in total who have come forward with reports of

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Speaker 2: abuse or attempted abuse at least by Harvey Weinstein.

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Speaker 4: And Weinstein and his brother Bob made names for themselves

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Speaker 4: as head of the Weinstein Company, and I believe they

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Speaker 4: also own Mirramaxy, And you know, they kind of were

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Speaker 4: an important force in mainstreaming indie film.

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Speaker 2: And I guess you could say, like talking about everything

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Speaker 2: from Kill Bill and going back in with Tarantino movies,

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Speaker 2: you're talking about big ones, Lord of the Rings franchise.

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Speaker 1: Or magnificent works of art like freeda which Weinstein fought

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Speaker 1: to suppress and then gladly took credit for when it

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Speaker 1: won numerous awards.

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Speaker 2: Look at their top movies. You're looking at some of

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Speaker 2: the highest grossing movies around.

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Speaker 1: It's a gold standard. In some cases, during these allegations,

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Speaker 1: Weinstein's legal team spent great amounts of money to reach

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Speaker 1: confidential settlements with the victims. In each case, the legal

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Speaker 1: team was careful to include some kind of clause or

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Speaker 1: language arguing something along the lines of this is not

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Speaker 1: an admission of guilt, but that's a statement that rings

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Speaker 1: false and consideration of the just the sheer amount of

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Speaker 1: money and estimated to be involved here.

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Speaker 2: And you know they also he used spies to infiltrate

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Speaker 2: some of these groups to get information out of certain

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Speaker 2: women that were accusing him of things. It goes really

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Speaker 2: deep and pis and you think about the conspiratorial aspect

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Speaker 2: of all that fighting back against people who are going

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Speaker 2: to speak truth to power.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and lately there have been some new allegations that

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Speaker 4: have come up with the director Terry Weygoff, who made

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Speaker 4: one of my favorite documentaries of all time. Crumb also

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Speaker 4: did the Bad Santa movie, which was interesting, but apparently

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Speaker 4: in conversations with Weinstein, anytime he would mention interest in

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Speaker 4: the actress Mira Sorvino, he would get a click, he

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Speaker 4: would get hung up on, and that had surfaced in

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Speaker 4: another allegation from Peter Jackson involving Mira Sorvino, saying that

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Speaker 4: anytime her name came up, there was just active aggression

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Speaker 4: from Harvey and his brother, and they of course denied

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Speaker 4: it because that was specifically referencing the Lord of the

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Speaker 4: Rings movies, which Weinstein Company initially was going to bankroll

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Speaker 4: and then they lost it to new line. So the

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Speaker 4: Weinstein line was we had no control overcasting because it

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Speaker 4: ultimately left our hands.

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Speaker 5: But then it's been.

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Speaker 4: Corroborated with the terry's Wygoff allegations. So there are a

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Speaker 4: lot of levers. A man like that can pull to

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Speaker 4: keep things, keep people hushed up about this kind of stuff,

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Speaker 4: whether it's the victim themselves or anyone else in the

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Speaker 4: industry that knows. And back to the casting couch thing,

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Speaker 4: the reason a lot of this is so insidious is

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Speaker 4: you don't have to be told to shut up.

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Speaker 5: You just know. There's this culture.

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Speaker 4: That pervades this you know town that's based around this

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Speaker 4: particular industry where if you don't see someone that's really

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Speaker 4: being brave and setting an example coming forward at great

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Speaker 4: cost to themselves like we're seeing now, chances are you're

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Speaker 4: going to be terrified into submission and just you know,

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Speaker 4: fear for your livelihood.

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Speaker 1: And that specific case with Mirror Cervino has been corroborated,

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Speaker 1: as you said. In addition, there's Rose McGowan in his

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Speaker 1: career was also cut short. Weinstein, like many other serial criminals,

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Speaker 1: had an mo O motus operandi, yes, a mode of

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Speaker 1: operation that his typically involved deception. For example, inviting an

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Speaker 1: actor or a colleague to quote unquote business meeting, only

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Speaker 1: to later change the location, insists they hold the meeting

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Speaker 1: at night in a hotel bar or in his office

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Speaker 1: in his hotel and then he would often be coming

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Speaker 1: out of the bathroom in a robe. He would outrighte

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Speaker 1: pressure them for sexual activity in exchange for casting consideration.

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Speaker 1: And we have a specific example of Harvey Weinstein's behavior

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Speaker 1: from before the scandal broke yes.

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Speaker 2: This one comes from twenty fifteen, two years ago, a

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Speaker 2: twenty two year old woman accused Weinstein of touching her

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Speaker 2: inappropriately during an evening meeting at his Tribeca Film Center offices,

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Speaker 2: and it comes from the New York Times. So the

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Speaker 2: New York Times did write about this. They had two stories.

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Speaker 2: The first one was the allegation of groping and the

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Speaker 2: second one was this one. It says the woman told

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Speaker 2: investigators that Weinstein touched her inappropriately after telling her that

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Speaker 2: it was important for casting agents to know whether her

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Speaker 2: breasts were real. So just that's insidious already. She contacted

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Speaker 2: the police after the meeting, and at the direction of

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Speaker 2: the detectives, placed another call to Weinstein. They recorded that

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Speaker 2: one uh and then during this call, Weinstein actually acknowledged

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Speaker 2: that this episode had occurred. And then they had a

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Speaker 2: follow up meeting, this time at a hotel room, and

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Speaker 2: she wore a wire.

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Speaker 5: They recorded it have you heard that.

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Speaker 2: I have not heard this take.

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Speaker 5: It is shocking is not the right word.

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Speaker 4: It's just the way he's so nonchalant about it, and

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Speaker 4: he's so matter of fact about it. And he basically

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Speaker 4: just keeps telling this woman, this model, don't embarrass me,

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Speaker 4: and then come into my come into the room, let's

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Speaker 4: talk about this. Come into my room. Don't embarrass me.

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Speaker 4: I'm at this hotel a lot, I'm a big deal

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Speaker 4: around here. And then she says, can you tell it, says,

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Speaker 4: but you touched my breast, I'm not comfortable with this, YadA, YadA, YadA,

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Speaker 4: And he said, look, it's it's what I'm used to.

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Speaker 4: He just says it, just tosses it off like it's nothing.

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Speaker 1: Chilling.

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Speaker 5: Is is the is the word I was looking for.

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Speaker 2: Well, in the end, I'm going to read a quote

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Speaker 2: from the article. Quote, this case was taken seriously from

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Speaker 2: the outset, with a thorough investigation conducted by our sex

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Speaker 2: crimes unit. After analyzing the available evidence, including multiple interviews

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Speaker 2: with both parties, a criminal charge is not supported. So

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Speaker 2: nothing happened to Tarvey Weinstein because of this. And you know,

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Speaker 2: you can get into the minutia of the law there

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Speaker 2: about what constitutes sexual assault and abuse and misconduct and

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Speaker 2: all of that. But it certainly seems like something very

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Speaker 2: wrong occurred there and nothing happened.

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Speaker 1: And this could fill an episode entirely with the exploration

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Speaker 1: of Weinstein's crimes. We want to we want to paint

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Speaker 1: a picture of the system at play here, because it

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Speaker 1: is a systemic phenomenon. So let's move to Bill Cosby.

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Speaker 1: Accusations against Cosby date to at least the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: meaning they span the vast majority of the seventy nine

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Speaker 1: to eight eighty year old's career. He likewine seeing her again.

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Speaker 1: Any other serial criminal also had anm his Numerous victims

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Speaker 1: described crimes with a startling similarity. Cosby would make a

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Speaker 1: drink or a beverage for the victim, slip a drug

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Speaker 1: into the beverage, and then sexually assault or attempt to

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Speaker 1: assault them when they lost consciousness. For example, Christina Rouley

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Speaker 1: was a twenty two year old secretary at a talent

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Speaker 1: agency in la in nineteen sixty five when she met Cosby.

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Speaker 1: So she was a secretary, not an inspiring act or anything,

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Speaker 1: and she said that she alleged that he invited her

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Speaker 1: to his home, where she says she passed out after

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Speaker 1: two drinks. It was foggy and I woke up in bed,

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Speaker 1: she reported to Philadelphia Magazine. I found myself on the bed.

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Speaker 1: He had his shirt off, he had unzipped his pants.

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Speaker 1: I was just coming to Cosby did go to trial.

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Speaker 1: A lot of these folks have not even gone to

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Speaker 1: a trial. He went to a trial last June, and

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Speaker 1: the trial lasted six days. It ended in a jury deadlock. Currently,

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Speaker 1: as we record this, Bill Cosby is set to return

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Speaker 1: to court for a retrial in April of twenty eighteen

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Speaker 1: on three counts of felony assault. And we talked about

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Speaker 1: this a little bit off air. This is a country

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Speaker 1: with a rule of law. Right, so if there had

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Speaker 1: not been a retrial, we would say that he had

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Speaker 1: been tried.

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Speaker 5: And exonerated, right.

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Speaker 1: But he is still in the court system for this,

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Speaker 1: and given his age, there are concerns about his lucidity, which,

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Speaker 1: to be frank with you, is similar to some of

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Speaker 1: the questions we have asked in previous shows about prosecuting

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Speaker 1: war criminals.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what I was thinking at this point. The

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Speaker 2: general is in his eighties, and you know he can't

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Speaker 2: even really remember all the atrocities that he ordered way

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Speaker 2: back in the day. But how do you bring something

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Speaker 2: like this to justice?

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Speaker 1: And does it I mean, and it doesn't negate the

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Speaker 1: existence of a crime?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely?

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Speaker 5: And Ben, you said, how many actual official charges?

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Speaker 1: This current trial in April twenty eighteen will be for

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Speaker 1: three counts of felony assault.

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Speaker 4: And I've read the accusers number as high as forty

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Speaker 4: eight And many of these are sort of constrained by

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Speaker 4: statutes of limitations that do differ state by state.

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Speaker 5: But there is a.

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Speaker 4: Period of time past which you cannot prosecute these crimes anymore.

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Speaker 1: And for further information on that, there's an excellent article

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Speaker 1: in Mother Jones that contains a map indicating the statute

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Speaker 1: of limitations for rape survivors or assault survivors state by state.

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Speaker 2: And it is arguable with Bill Cosby's case that it

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Speaker 2: kind of opened the floodgates for more people to outwardly

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Speaker 2: discuss some of this stuff. I remember when Hannibal Burris

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Speaker 2: put it in a piece of his stand up and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I knew nothing of any allegations against Bill Cosby at

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Speaker 2: the time.

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Speaker 5: Another one of those open secrets they always talk about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, years before, and one of the most powerful things

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Speaker 1: this survivor can hear after surviving is that you are

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Speaker 1: not alone. Absolutely so hearing somebody else speak about the

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Speaker 1: same thing happening to them or a very similar thing

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Speaker 1: is very powerful. And that's also what happened with another

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Speaker 1: example we mentioned at the top, the comedian Louis c K.

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Speaker 1: In the years preceding twenty seventeen, Louis c K became

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Speaker 1: one of the most famous, well known comics in the

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Speaker 1: Western world. His live shows repeatedly sold out, his stand

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Speaker 1: up specials played on repeat, and households across the planet.

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Speaker 1: His independently produced TV series met with critical acclaim, and

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Speaker 1: he based his voice on this sort of self deprecating,

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Speaker 1: cynical but ultimately honest character, one who readily confessed any

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Speaker 1: number of controversial beliefs, apparently understandable yet edgy foibles and

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Speaker 1: so on. However, there was a much darker side to

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Speaker 1: the actual man playing this character on stage, and it

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Speaker 1: was by his own admission, eventually yeah Well.

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Speaker 2: For years, rumors had swirled around the industry itself, specifically

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Speaker 2: the comics people who ran the show there, about Luis

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Speaker 2: c K being a powerful force in that world, but

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Speaker 2: also backstage when you know, when he's kind of in

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Speaker 2: the dark, he was a bit of a monster. Specifically,

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Speaker 2: there were female comedians comics on tour with c K

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Speaker 2: who would tell the same story over and over and

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Speaker 2: over that this guy who is you know, not their

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Speaker 2: boss in any way on these tours, but he's definitely

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Speaker 2: as the headliner, there's a position of power out there. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and he's a big name and he's a draw. They

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Speaker 2: said that he would corner them either back or at

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Speaker 2: a hotel after a show and would force them to

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Speaker 2: watch him pleasure himself.

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Speaker 1: To watch a master by.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And while this was, as we said earlier, another open

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Speaker 1: secret in the world of comedy, people outside of the

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Speaker 1: industry only heard reports along the lines of a victim

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Speaker 1: who does not want to be named, has accused a

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Speaker 1: very powerful comedian of sexual harassment or assault, but fears

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Speaker 1: pursuing justice will endanger their career.

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Speaker 4: And it's interesting in the same way that Hannibal Burris

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Speaker 4: kind of like lit the spark that that sort of

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Speaker 4: blew the Cosby thing wide open. Comedian Tig Nataro had

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Speaker 4: been openly criticizing Luis c K for not getting out

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Speaker 4: in front of this accusation, because he would be asked

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Speaker 4: about it in interviews and say something the effect of like,

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Speaker 4: I don't want to, you know, justify it with or

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Speaker 4: dignify it with the response you know, it's utterly not

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Speaker 4: true and if I talk about it, it'll give it

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Speaker 4: life in some way. And you know, tig Who her

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Speaker 4: show One Mississippi was produced by Louis c K, and

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Speaker 4: she said that she was not aware of the extent

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Speaker 4: of these allegations when she signed on to his production

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Speaker 4: company or agreed to sold the show to Netflix. And

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Speaker 4: it's interesting too because, in a similar way to something

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Speaker 4: that Cosby did, Louis K would kind of joke about

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Speaker 4: these kind of proclivities in his routine and in his

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Speaker 4: stand up and his show, and you know, like about

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Speaker 4: you know, being basically just an incorrigible horn dog. And

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Speaker 4: there's even an episode of Louis where he kind.

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Speaker 1: Of where well, he sort of assaults.

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Speaker 4: Pamela Ablin's character, who plays kind of his you know,

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Speaker 4: on and off again love interest. He pushes her against

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Speaker 4: a wall and it ultimately kind of ends up. She's

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Speaker 4: okay with it, but it's a little like knowing what

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Speaker 4: we know now it does not play well. And that's

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Speaker 4: the same for Cosby. He had a bit where he

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Speaker 4: talked about how the beauty of Spanish fly, Spanish fly,

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Speaker 4: this aphrodisiac that you he talks about slipping it to

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Speaker 4: women and their drinks. And it's like in this very lighthearted,

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Speaker 4: silly routine from his early super clean comedy days.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of truth is told in just including

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Speaker 1: unpleasant truth. And we have further examples after a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Now we go to Kevin Spacey, the

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Speaker 1: actor famous for such films as The Usual Suspects and Seven,

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Speaker 1: as well as the Netflix adaptation of House of Cards.

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Speaker 1: Spacey also stands accused of harassing multiple people on and offset. Again,

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Speaker 1: this was a practice members of various Hollywood social circles

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Speaker 1: knew about four years. The specific claim that brought this

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Speaker 1: into the mainstream occurred in October of twenty seventeen, when

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Speaker 1: an actor named Anthony Rapiku Spacey of sexual assault slash

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Speaker 1: harassment when Spacey was twenty six and when Anthony rapp

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Speaker 1: was fourteen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there have been multiple accusations against Kevin Spacey,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of them have to do with young men,

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Speaker 2: very young men in their early teens, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of it is just so disheartening that I don't even

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Speaker 2: want to talk about it, but you can find it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this also will you'll also hear director Brian

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Speaker 1: Singer mentioned.

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Speaker 5: In some of these cases.

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Speaker 4: Brian Singer, who directed The Usual Suspects of film that

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Speaker 4: made Spacey quite famous.

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Speaker 1: And as of the time of this recording, more reports

441
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: of Spacey of surfaced. Police in the UK are currently

442
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: investigating new claims against him. And one crucial thing for

443
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: us to emphasize here is that it is not just

444
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: the film industry, absolutely, and it's you know, it's any

445
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: industry where these sorts of inequalities of power exist. The

446
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: music and entertainment mogul Russell Simmons would be one, just

447
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: one example from the world of music.

448
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 2: And then even the world of celebrity chefs who you

449
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 2: know end up in the television industry quite often, like

450
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 2: Mario Batali and John Besh.

451
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, television host newscasters Matt Lower, Charlie Rose and more

452
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: Bill O'Reilly. There's another one.

453
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 2: We got Morgan Spurlock and Tavis Smiley, Jeffrey Tambour, Steven Seagal,

454
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 2: Brett Ratner, Dustin Hoffman, Jeremy Piven.

455
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 4: There's a new one that just came out with TJ. Miller,

456
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 4: who was, you know, yeah in Silicon Valley and he's

457
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 4: a popular stand up. Some allegations that date back to

458
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 4: his college days just surfaced where a woman that he

459
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 4: was apparently dating at the time said that he choked

460
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 4: her during sex and penetrated her with objects against her

461
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 4: will and left.

462
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 5: Her bruised and bloody.

463
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 4: And you know, as he rose in prominence and all

464
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 4: of these other allegations have started to surface. This is

465
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 4: what we're seeing, is we're seeing people, Okay, I've been

466
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 4: carrying this around, you know, for a long time, and

467
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 4: I'm not going to do it anymore. And you finally

468
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 4: like feel like you haven't out, like you're not alone,

469
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 4: and that maybe just maybe someone will you know, take

470
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 4: you believe you.

471
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:27,959
Speaker 2: Yeah.

472
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: And in the case of Miller, I believe they were

473
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: originally in a comedy group together along with the person

474
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: he's currently married to.

475
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 4: It's really heartbreaking, all of it, and it just doesn't stop.

476
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 4: And in a way it's it's cathartic and it's a

477
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,479
Speaker 4: it's a good thing to finally see some come up

478
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 4: and but it's also just so disheartening to see how

479
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 4: much of how many of the people whose art we

480
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 4: love and who you know, we've been entertained by over

481
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 4: the years, are at the heart just like rotten, rotten people.

482
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 2: It's hard to fathom being a fan of a lot

483
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 2: of the names that we have discussed like over the year,

484
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 2: supporting with our money, supporting with our adoration, and while

485
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 2: this stuff is going on, it's a tough pill to swallow.

486
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: But the worst thing is that there are real victims

487
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 2: who are you know, out there and just having to

488
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 2: deal with this in real life.

489
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: Garrison Keeler, executives at MPR. The list goes on and

490
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: by the time this episode reaches the air, it is

491
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: more than likely that there will be more exposed criminals

492
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: to add to the ranks of powerful serial sexual abusers.

493
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: I mean, in short, there's one thing we know for

494
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: short at this point, and that's that there are more

495
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: stories will come to light, but hopefully as this system

496
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: of silence begins to break down. But here's where it

497
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: gets crazy. All of the dates, the names, the figures

498
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: from earlier that we have just discussed are as of

499
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: this recording conclusively proven, but these reports appear to be

500
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: the tip of a sinister and tragic and disgusting iceberg.

501
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: It's at this point virtually impossible to know for certain

502
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: how many actors, crew members, other studio industry staff have

503
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: also been victimized. And it's impossible to know whether all

504
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: these criminals responsible for this behavior will ever receive punishment

505
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: for their crimes, you know, because as we mentioned earlier,

506
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: Weinstein was booted from his job. He was fired, but

507
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: that's not the same as going to court.

508
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 4: But it's also only when it becomes a good business

509
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,959
Speaker 4: choice do those things happen. And finally we're seeing and

510
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 4: I think he's being very empathetic about this, but Ridley Scott,

511
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 4: for example, had a film starring Spacey that was done

512
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 4: and they went back into production and cut Spacey out

513
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 4: of this movie.

514
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 5: And I think that was.

515
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 4: The way he tells it, it was the right thing

516
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 4: to do, But it's also like it would have affected

517
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 4: the grosses of the movie. So it starts to like,

518
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 4: you see these decisions being made, all thank god, they're

519
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 4: finally wising up in Hollywood.

520
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 2: Are they?

521
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 4: I mean, it just feels like, Okay, finally we have

522
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 4: to act because it's the right business move right.

523
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: Like Bob Weinstein, it is wildly implausible that he had

524
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: no clue what was happening working with his brother over decades.

525
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 4: It's like the way Tarantino came out and was like,

526
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 4: you know, first I didn't know, and then kind of

527
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 4: came back a little bit later saying I knew more

528
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 4: than I let on. You know, these people were cronies.

529
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 4: They were hanging out at parties together and villas and

530
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 4: you know, living the high life. Going to these film

531
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 4: film festivals. You observe this kind of behavior. You can't

532
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 4: not know.

533
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: And people are the human species. Out of all of

534
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: the strange things our enhanced cognition gives us, the human

535
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: species has one incredibly disturbing gift, which is the ability

536
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: to rationalize why I or why an individual is doing something.

537
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: People will do a lot when they feel like their

538
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: careers on the line, and they'll ignore a lot too. Historically, Hollywood,

539
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: like any other insular industry or many other I should say,

540
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: is that a reputation for protecting its own This has

541
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: been a long standing tradition. Roman Polanski is a great example.

542
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: Roman Polanski. This is not alleged he was convicted. It

543
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: is proven he drugged and sexually assaulted a child, a

544
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: thirteen year old, and even today in recent years, some

545
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: members of Hollywood society have sought to allow him to

546
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: return to the US with no illegal con consequences, and

547
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: in the past, his supporters in France, where he lives

548
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: as a free man, have fought against extradition if it

549
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: meant that he would serve time for again an assault

550
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: on a thirteen year old child.

551
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: Can I just leave now? I don't want to talk

552
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: about this anymore?

553
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 1: Well I don't either, but we have. I mean this,

554
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: this is what this show should be about.

555
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 2: You know, you're absolutely right. It's just tough. This is tough, Okay.

556
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: Another person, Brian Peck, who in two thousand and four

557
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: served sixteen months in prison for engaging in sex acts

558
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 2: with a child star who was working for Nickelodeon. This gentleman,

559
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: Brian Peck, continued to work for Disney when he was

560
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: out of prison. So he did this terrible thing. He

561
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: went to prison for a little while, and then he

562
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 2: got to continue to work with kids at Disney.

563
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: Right he went on. He was in two x Men films,

564
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: he was in three Living Dead films, and he was

565
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: in two Disney television shows, I believe, and this was afterward.

566
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: One that I think is another profoundly disturbing example is

567
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: a director named Victor Salva. You're familiar, perhaps Matt Noll,

568
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: with the films Jeeper Screepers and the Film's Powder. Salva

569
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: made both of those after he was convicted in nineteen

570
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: eighty eight of sexual crimes against several children that he

571
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: had cast in an earlier movie. Law enforcement agencies did

572
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: find commercial child pornography in his home. He pled guilty

573
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: to every count he did actually go to court. He

574
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: was sentenced to three years in prison, of which he

575
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: served fifteen months, a little over one year. He completed

576
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: parole in nineteen ninety two. Jeeper's Creepers became a franchise.

577
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: Victor Salvam made his most recent film as of twenty fourteen,

578
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 1: again a free and powerful man.

579
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 2: And we won't even get into Woody Allen. Another aspect

580
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: of this system of silence, the sexual abuse being so

581
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 2: prevalent in Hollywood, did not apply solely to one type

582
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 2: of person, not to a single age group. It was

583
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 2: and is pervasive for decades. Allegations of sexual violence against

584
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 2: children have just been dogging the industry, with multiple former

585
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: child actors offering their own experience, their first hand knowledge

586
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: of these crimes occurring, both in the past and some

587
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 2: of it actively.

588
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: For example, Elijah Wood maintains that he only managed to

589
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: escape this sort of abuse due to the vigilance of

590
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: his parents. One thing that is apparently common here is

591
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: that often what happens when child act enter the industry,

592
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: or what did happen, was that managers, producers, directors would

593
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: isolate the kids from the supervision of their parents. You know,

594
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: the kid would be emancipated right and work as an adult.

595
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 4: Even that initial Spacey story where Anthony rap accused him

596
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 4: of coming on to him inappropriately, he was a kid

597
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 4: at the time and was at a party for this

598
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 4: Broadway production that they were both working on, and to

599
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 4: hear him tell, it was too young to really kind

600
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 4: of hobnob with what some of other folks couldn't drink.

601
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 5: So he was just sitting and watching TV.

602
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 4: And as the night progressed, he kind of stayed there

603
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 4: and then Spacey just sort of came in there and

604
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 4: took advantage of him, or tried to anyway, So you know,

605
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 4: it requires utter vigilance from parents.

606
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: And so Elijah Wood counted himself very fortunate. But he

607
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: said that he and his family and everyone else were

608
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: fully aware of the presence of this sort of abuse

609
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: on and off film sets. In an interview with The

610
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: Sunday Times, Wood indicated that he believes this is a systematic,

611
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: systemic and much larger than a handful of offenders operating alone.

612
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: We have a quotation here where he says, clearly something

613
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: major was going on in Hollywood. It was all organized.

614
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: There are lots of vipers in the industry, people who

615
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: only have their own interest in mind. There is a

616
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: darkness in the underbelly. What burns me about these situations

617
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: is that the victims cannot speak as loudly as the

618
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: people in power. That's the tragedy of attempting to reveal

619
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: what is happening to innocent people. They can't be squashed,

620
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: but their lives have been irreparably damaged. And Corey Feldman

621
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: backed up Wood's claims in twenty sixteen.

622
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 4: Notably Yeah, he went on to say, quote, I'm not

623
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 4: able to name names. People are frustrated, people are angry.

624
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 4: They want to know how this is happening, but unfortunately California,

625
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 4: conveniently enough has a statute of limitations that prevents that

626
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 4: from happening, because if I were to go and mention

627
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 4: anybody's name, I would be the one that would be

628
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 4: in legal problems, and I'm the one that would be sued.

629
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is a terribly poignant thing that he's

630
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: said there, and we're going to continue exploring this extremely

631
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 2: dark subject afterward from our sponsor.

632
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: In November of twenty seventeen, the former child actor current

633
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: musician Corey Feldman spoke with Vanity Fair about his experience

634
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: with child abuse in the film industry, and while he

635
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: was refusing to name all of the offenders that he

636
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: says he's aware of, he is planning and hoping to

637
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 1: create a film that will, from his perspective, finally and

638
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: inarguably irreversibly expose the active pedophilia rings operating in Hollywood

639
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: and beyond. He does believe the abuse he and his

640
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: colleagues encounter and his children caused reparable damage, and he

641
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 1: attributes the death of his friend and fellow actor, Corey

642
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: Haim in part to this abuse.

643
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 2: And he has a quote where he says it's all

644
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: connected to a bigger, darker power. I don't know how

645
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 2: high up the chain that power goes, but I know

646
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: that it probably is outside of the film industry too.

647
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: It's probably in government, it's probably throughout the world in

648
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: different dark aspects.

649
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 5: And we know that this.

650
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: Concept of sexual abuse rings operating had in the past

651
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: been relegated to the domain of just wild alarmist conspiracy

652
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: theory claims. But we also have seen in recent years

653
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: with what's happening in the UK with Jimmy Seville, with

654
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 1: the international pornography trades or rings trading pornography online. These

655
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: things were something like them what Feldman is talking about

656
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: do indisputably exist. And Feldman did name at least three men.

657
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:09,919
Speaker 5: Yeah.

658
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 4: Some of those names were a child actor manager Marty Weiss,

659
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 4: former actor John Grissom, and the owner of a place

660
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 4: in Los Angeles called Alfie's Soda Pop Club. Alfie Hoffman

661
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 4: was this man's name. And I did not know what

662
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 4: this was, and I looked it up and it was

663
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 4: basically a disco for child actors that operated for a

664
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 4: handful of years between nineteen eighty six and nineteen eighty nine,

665
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 4: and the whole idea was that, you know, it's clientel

666
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 4: would be sixteen or younger, and they were able to get,

667
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 4: you know, an alcohol free environment where they could have

668
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 4: a dance floor and yeah, free all night, free soda

669
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 4: pop all night. None of this sounds creepy at all, No, it.

670
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 5: Really really does.

671
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was apparently a toxic environment, especially as

672
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 2: it got later in the night. There were a lot

673
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 2: of things that occurred after parties, that occurred even after

674
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: that stuff. These are allegations that are made in several

675
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: places by multiple people. The Alfie Hoffman name came up

676
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 2: when Corey Feldman went on the Doctor Oz Show, and

677
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 2: I guess their staff went through all of the different

678
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: things that Corey Feldman has written over the years and

679
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: they tried to piece together who it might possibly be

680
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: this person that he keeps mentioning, and Doctor Oz showed

681
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: a picture of Alfie Hoffman to Corey Felderman without showing

682
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 2: anybody else and asked, is this the man? And Corey

683
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: Feldman says yes, and then they go into a lot

684
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: of these allegations that we're talking about.

685
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: In his very fair interview, he said he could name

686
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: six people right off the bat, So according to him,

687
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: and other survivors of this. This is a systemic thing

688
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 1: which makes it organized crime.

689
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 4: Not only that there's a great article. Great, I guess

690
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 4: it's probably the wrong word, but an article in Vice

691
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 4: called Him Himself and He and it is about Corey

692
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 4: Haim's experiences in this environment, specifically in the Soda Pop club.

693
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 4: And as you know, Corey Ham was Corey Feldman's co star,

694
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 4: best friend, and may or may not know also that

695
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 4: he became penniless and addicted to drugs and pretty much

696
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 4: died alone. I believe in a hotel in LA with

697
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 4: no work, no career, and that systemic thing you're talking about.

698
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 4: It's really summed up here in this quote from Ham

699
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 4: from this video that he was part of in eighty nine,

700
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 4: called Me, Myself and I, and it goes like this.

701
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 4: Growing up on movie sets has its ups and its downs.

702
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 4: I mean, sure, it's great, lots of attention, only three

703
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 4: hours a day of school, there's makeup and wardrobe, movie premieeres, limousines.

704
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 4: It all sounds like fun. But when you're twelve or

705
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 4: thirteen years old, you're very, very impressionable, and I know

706
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 4: it's easy to get off track. Like me, some of

707
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 4: you don't have moms and dads to bring you up.

708
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 4: I mean, let's face it, it's tough being a kid.

709
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 4: So be smart, don't get messed up, stay in school,

710
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 4: be anybody you want to be.

711
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: Which overall is very powerful and positive message from a survivor.

712
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, except he wasn't a survivor. I mean he is

713
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 4: ultimately this life. It's the way I see it, and

714
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 4: tell me, you argue, tell me I'm wrong, ultimately ate

715
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 4: him away, you know. And it's like we talk about

716
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 4: Elijah Wood and having positive reinforcement and somebody looking after

717
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 4: him and having his back through all this stuff. He

718
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 4: seems like a really well adjusted human person when you

719
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 4: see him today.

720
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 5: That's yeah.

721
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: That's why I was saying earlier that Feldman also attributed

722
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: this fall. I guess what I mean by inspiring is

723
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: on a personal level for him's character. It is so

724
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: profound that he was able to make this a message

725
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: to other people.

726
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 5: That's very true.

727
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: This is not the only video on this subject. There's

728
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: a documentary named Amy Berg who addressed this ongoing scandal

729
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: in her film An Open Secret, which includes statements by

730
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: victims and later attempts to expose criminals within the film industry.

731
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: According to supporters, factions of Hollywood conspired to stop this

732
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: film from spreading, just like, just like somebody, an anonymous

733
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: buyer bought that Discovery documentary that came out a few

734
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: years ago about sexual abuse within the halls of government.

735
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that was called Conspiracy of Silence. And you

736
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 2: can find at least most of film online if you

737
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:01,919
Speaker 2: search for it.

738
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, on YouTube.

739
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 4: And we haven't even gotten into how this has affected politics.

740
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 4: I mean, we're starting to see a lot more resignations

741
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 4: and politics because of these kinds of accusations, and it

742
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 4: actually affecting people's careers. So, you know, the pieces might

743
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 4: move slow, but hopefully they move.

744
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 5: In the right direction.

745
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: Hopefully the old adage is true. Hopefully the wheels of

746
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 1: justice grind slow yet exceedingly fine. And you know, I'm

747
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: glad you mentioned politics here because in one of the

748
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 1: things that people re examined when so much of this

749
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: abuse came to light concerned Anita Hill and current Supreme

750
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: Court Judge Clarence Thomas. And Anita Hill, going back to

751
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: the earlier quote Matt brought us at the top of

752
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: the show, was interrogated, right, was called a scorned woman

753
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: was roundly under in the course of the investigation. And

754
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: now Clarence Thomas is on the Supreme Court of the

755
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: United States. He's one of the nine ring raiths that

756
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: runs this democracy.

757
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 4: And although you know, this situation was deemed consensual. Look

758
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 4: what happened with Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton. And Bill

759
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 4: Clinton was ultimately he had some egg on his face,

760
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 4: but he ultimately was walking around today giving speeches, doing

761
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 4: fundraisers and heading.

762
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 5: Up the Clinton Foundation.

763
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 4: And Lewinsky was just totally demonized and dragged through the

764
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 4: mud and made to look like some sort of awful

765
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 4: home wrecking, you know, demon some the five person you

766
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 4: have to ask yourself is is in that kind of

767
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:43,240
Speaker 4: power dynamic?

768
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: If that kind of power dynamic exists in an interaction,

769
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: is it possible for a real consent to occur? It's

770
00:45:54,200 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's an inequality of power and an escape.

771
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: And critics of the film An Open Secret believe it

772
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 1: misses the mark on the importance of the abuse by

773
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: presenting things in a disingenuous or misleading manner. And while

774
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: that might be up to the interpretation of the person

775
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: watching the film, none of the critics of the film

776
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: are saying that this doesn't exist. No one in their

777
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: right mind is saying that abuse does not exist in Hollywood,

778
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,720
Speaker 1: and I would hope no one in the right mind

779
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: is arguing in twenty eighteen that abuse doesn't exist in politics.

780
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: It clearly does. And as we draw this episode to

781
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: a close, we do want to note that at this time,

782
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 1: many of these accusations, these allegations, these criminal acts, have

783
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: not been examined by the court system.

784
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so just keep that in mind when you're thinking

785
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 2: about all this stuff. They haven't seen their day in

786
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 2: court yet.

787
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: And we have some questions. We hope that we have

788
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 1: presented this again profoundly disturbing topic in the light that

789
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: it deserves, which is not a series of isolated cases.

790
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: This is not a series of one person being monstrous.

791
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: It is a series of multiple events occurring and multiple

792
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: other people working to cover those events up, to keep

793
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: them away from the public eye, to use privatize, to

794
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: keep them away from the public eye, to literally conspire

795
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: against victims.

796
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 4: I was saying at the top of the show, this

797
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 4: is the very definition of a conspiracy. We know that's

798
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 4: what this is. There is no theory involved.

799
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 1: Absolutely agreed and so we want to end today's episode

800
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: on some questions. Do you think more revelations will follow?

801
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, and they're going to continue to follow. And

802
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: I think the child sexual abuse scandal is the next

803
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 2: thing that is going to top probably at least one

804
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 2: entire section of the film industry. I really do think

805
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 2: that's coming.

806
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: And another question that you have asked us, folks, is

807
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: what enabled these revelations to come into the public sphere.

808
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: Now the records conclusively do show, after all, the multiple

809
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: victims continually came forward in almost every case, only to

810
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: be blacklisted and ignored. And again, we've concentrated on Hollywood

811
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 1: here because that's where a lot of the stuff is

812
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: coming from.

813
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 5: But it would be.

814
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: Dishonest to say that it is limited in any way

815
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 1: to Hollywood.

816
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 4: I mean, we haven't even mentioned the me too hashtag,

817
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 4: which became not only a standard that people were able

818
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 4: to bear for this cause, not only in the film industry,

819
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 4: but people in general.

820
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 5: You know, you just saw it. It just blew up

821
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 5: on the internet.

822
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 4: Me too, And there's this real sense of this You

823
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 4: don't want to think about the fact that this happens

824
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 4: to people. I was talking with my mother, I had

825
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,879
Speaker 4: dinner with my mother, who was an opera singer, and

826
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 4: she experienced this kind of stuff all the time, and

827
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 4: it was just accepted. It was like, you just keep

828
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 4: your mouth shut. You do this, whether you're a secretary,

829
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 4: whether you're a star. You're going to have powerful figures,

830
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 4: typically powerful male figures that are going to take advantage

831
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 4: of that, especially back in the sixties and seventies. As

832
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 4: we've seen this progress. So thank god we do have

833
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 4: these digital ways of spreading this like wildfire and finally

834
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 4: shutting it down, or at least starting the process of

835
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 4: shutting it down.

836
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 2: That's what Ben said at the top. Having that message

837
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 2: of I also experienced this and then having it amplified

838
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: at that level, I think it just created a current

839
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: that were allowed for it to happen.

840
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 5: I think that's what happened, right, So what.

841
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: You know, going back to that, what enabled these revelations

842
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: to finally be treated I would say seriously by the

843
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: mainstream media. You will hear people saying that Weinstein somehow

844
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: wronged in invisible system, and then that's why he finally

845
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: had to pay for his crimes. But I'm concerned that

846
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: that diminishes the strength of the people who spoke up,

847
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, he just.

848
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 5: Got caught in a way that you could no longer

849
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 5: cover up.

850
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 4: There comes a point where you reach critical mass where

851
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 4: it's like, okay, will you weigh it?

852
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 5: Are we gonna keep covering this up?

853
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 4: Are we just gonna like throw this guy under the

854
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 4: bus because he's a cancer and we can no longer

855
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,720
Speaker 4: support this behavior because it is not in our best

856
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 4: interest as business people. And that's sad and gross, But

857
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 4: that's what happens on the business side, you know, That's

858
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 4: what I.

859
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: But in a cancer analogy, wouldn't you say, Harvey Weinstein

860
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 2: is almost like getting a biopsy, just a tiny part

861
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 2: of it taken out.

862
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 4: Whatever the reasoning is, having it happen is better for

863
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 4: the body quote unquote the human condition, you know, like

864
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 4: that's a good I don't know, but I.

865
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 5: Do feel like it.

866
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 4: These things only happen when it costs somebody too much money,

867
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 4: and that's when they finally will will you know, kick

868
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 4: someone to the curb. Someone is powerful. It's a Harvey Weinstein.

869
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 2: And one of the other things that has to be

870
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 2: said here is we kind of mentioned it already that

871
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 2: it's not just in Hollywood. It's not any of these

872
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 2: other places. It's in homes across this country, across the world.

873
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 2: It's in you know, at bars and churches. This kind

874
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 2: of thing is everywhere. And just having a brief conversation

875
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 2: with my wife last night about this topic, she mentioned

876
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 2: to me specific examples that she knew of in our circle,

877
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 2: like our friendship circle of women who've been abused, and

878
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: it is so prevalent. So lastly, and most importantly, if

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00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 2: you or someone you know is a victim of abuse,

880
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 2: whether sexual, physical, or otherwise, remember that there are other

881
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 2: people who can help you. You can contact them directly.

882
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 2: All you have to do is call one eight hundred

883
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,439
Speaker 2: six five six four six seven to three and you'll

884
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 2: be connected with a trained staff member from the National

885
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 2: Sexual Assault Telephone Hotline, and that person can help you.

886
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 2: Right now, you are not alone.

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00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. As

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00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: we as we established several times throughout the show, this

889
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: is an ongoing phenomenon. So if you are listening to

890
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: this at a later date, it there may be information

891
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 1: that was not available as we were recording the show.

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00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 2: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you

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00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 2: have any thoughts or questions about this episode. You can

894
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 2: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.

895
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 2: One of the best is to give us a call.

896
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 2: Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you

897
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: don't want to do that, you can and send us

898
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 2: a good old fashioned email.

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00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

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00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

901
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

902
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.