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Speaker 1: So Gretchen Carlson is here. We met years ago. You

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Speaker 1: were moderating an event and I think I spoke was

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Speaker 1: that it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a couple of years ago. It was

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Speaker 2: actually on Zoom because I think it was during COVID.

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Speaker 1: That was probably one of my first and really only

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Speaker 1: Zoom appearances.

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Speaker 2: What yeah, why?

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Speaker 1: I first of all, it would be hard for me

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Speaker 1: to even get myself on a Zoom now, meaning physically

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Speaker 1: do it. I'm one of those people that's like a

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Speaker 1: dinosaur in that way and that tech way. But I

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Speaker 1: didn't see the future and understand how Zoom could be real.

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Speaker 1: And it was so great to do appearances and your

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Speaker 1: pajama Yeah exactly. So that was good for me. But

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Speaker 1: what was that for?

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Speaker 3: Do you remember?

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Speaker 2: I was trying to remember when my pure person was

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Speaker 2: just asking me what it was. It was for some

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Speaker 2: like conference that featured people who were philanthropic.

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Speaker 3: Oh, okay, So it was about we.

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Speaker 2: Were talking about all your efforts with when you go

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Speaker 2: in after hurricanes strong and yours and yours and so

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Speaker 2: you know, my efforts at lift our voices. And I

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Speaker 2: think it was put on by a magazine. But it's

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Speaker 2: escaping me, right, Okay, what it.

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Speaker 1: Was so like so many other people that I interviewed

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Speaker 1: that I know, we text back and forth, We've talked

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Speaker 1: about making plans, we live near each other, Like so

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Speaker 1: many other people, when I look at their bio, it's

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Speaker 1: something that's never come up in speaking to them or

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Speaker 1: texting with them.

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Speaker 3: Obviously. I mean, you have the.

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Speaker 1: Most colorful, assorted, impressive resume bio. I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: had this as a resume and it basically just gave

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Speaker 1: your hobbies and the other things you've been involved in,

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Speaker 1: it would be impressive. So I was really, really I

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Speaker 1: was shocked. So some of the things I read was

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Speaker 1: a talented youth violinist, you were Miss Minnesota, Miss America,

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Speaker 1: You went to Stamford, You were on Fox and Friends

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Speaker 1: for many many years. You also, I mean I watched

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Speaker 1: the documentary, if I listened to everything I see on TV,

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Speaker 1: you kind of took down a network and also started

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Speaker 1: a movement. So let's start by how you are so ambitious.

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Speaker 1: Even just saying that you went to Stamford alone is

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Speaker 1: something that's impressive. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think there's a through line in my life

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Speaker 2: about working incredibly hard, you know, but there's also a

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Speaker 2: through line that I think is inspirational to especially women

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Speaker 2: who maybe drop out of the workforce or are trying

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Speaker 2: to look like what their next calling is after they've

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Speaker 2: been a parent. And my life, I hope, is a

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Speaker 2: testament to like, you can always pick up the pieces

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Speaker 2: and start over if you have a really good base

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Speaker 2: of working hard, because my life has worked in so

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Speaker 2: many mysterious ways, just like what you rattled off, like.

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Speaker 2: I was a really serious violinist as a child, and

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Speaker 2: I thought that was going to be my career, and

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Speaker 2: I studied at Juilliard in New York, and I burned

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Speaker 2: out when I was seventeen. I was like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: I just like too many other things in life, and

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Speaker 2: to be what I wanted to be in that area,

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Speaker 2: I would have had to given up everything else. And

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Speaker 2: I wasn't willing to do that because I loved school,

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Speaker 2: and I was in drama, and I liked boys. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, there were a lot of things that were

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Speaker 2: distracting me from music. And so then I went to

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Speaker 2: Stanford and dedicated myself to my academics. And then my

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Speaker 2: my mom especially was pretty upset that I wasn't playing

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Speaker 2: the violin anymore. So I'll never forget. She called me

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Speaker 2: when I was studying overseas. She's like, I phound something

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Speaker 2: for you to do with your violin and I was

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Speaker 2: like what, And she goes Miss America and I was like, Mom,

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Speaker 2: are you ef a nuts? Like I'm from Minnesota. I'm

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Speaker 2: I'm five foot three, I played classical violin, which has

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Speaker 2: never won. I never watched pageants growing up. I was

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Speaker 2: a tomboy. But my mom has been like this incredible

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Speaker 2: driving force in my life and has really pushed me

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Speaker 2: in a good way. And so she won, and I,

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Speaker 2: you know, I entered because fifty percent of your points

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Speaker 2: are based on talent. Ah, so that was that's what

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Speaker 2: makes Smiss America different from Miss USA or other I wow,

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Speaker 2: most people don't unfortunately. Yeah. So then I, you know,

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Speaker 2: I stopped out of Stanford so that I could because

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Speaker 2: once I got into it, I was like, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to give this one hundred and twenty five percent.

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Speaker 2: And there's so much luck involved in all of this,

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Speaker 2: but so it you know, it ended up working out.

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Speaker 2: I became something I never ever dreamed that I would

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Speaker 2: ever be doing.

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Speaker 1: Because of Miss America because it was sort of being

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Speaker 1: forward facing.

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Speaker 3: As we talked about.

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Speaker 2: Before, I never expected to be in a pageant, right right?

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Speaker 3: Oh right?

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Speaker 2: I played grew up playing football with my brothers, you know,

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Speaker 2: like I it just I wasn't a girly girl, like

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Speaker 2: I never watched it growing up, So then suddenly I

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Speaker 2: was it. I remember the night, the night that had

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Speaker 2: happened to age myself, MERV Griffin and Ava Goabor because

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Speaker 2: Viva Gobor was one of my judges and she was

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Speaker 2: the beard for MERV Griffin.

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Speaker 3: Right, Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: So he had hotels in Atlantic City, so they threw

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Speaker 2: me this pizza party after I won up in some

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Speaker 2: sweet and I remember going into the bathroom and looking

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Speaker 2: at myself and being like, holy shit, Like now you

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Speaker 2: did this? Now?

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Speaker 1: What? Right?

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Speaker 2: Because you don't really prepare to like be it, Like

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Speaker 2: I never thought about, oh if this actually happens, Like

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Speaker 2: what is it like to be miss America?

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Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting because often even with any job, you're

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Speaker 1: excited to get it because it's a big get. That

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Speaker 1: was me with a talk show, but I didn't really

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Speaker 1: want it. I don't know that's your situation, but I thought, like,

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Speaker 1: who wouldn't want this? And I'm supposed to go for this.

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Speaker 1: But once I had it, it wasn't really for me.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't even my personality, which I think is something

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Speaker 1: people should explore new things, but you really have to

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Speaker 1: think about it. Fill aligns with your personality ego aside exactly.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's very similar. So like what it took

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Speaker 2: to actually get there and win was totally different than

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Speaker 2: what it was to actually be it.

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Speaker 1: Well, it was very you to get there and win

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Speaker 1: and be disciplined and put in the work and like

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Speaker 1: to win. You are that type of person which we're

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Speaker 1: going to get into. But then you probably became a

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Speaker 1: show piece.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And like back then, I was going to drugstores

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Speaker 2: and signing autographs and I'm like, what am I doing?

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Speaker 2: And I would hear people this is one of the drawbacks,

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Speaker 2: which I guess would be expected because people were I

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Speaker 2: was looking at your exterior, but I would actually hear

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Speaker 2: people in line like I didn't have ears, and I

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Speaker 2: would hear people say that's miss America. Yea, no. Look.

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Speaker 2: I developed such a tough skin from it. So what

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Speaker 2: I tried to do was do events where I could

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Speaker 2: perform my violin a lot so that people would understand

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Speaker 2: that this was you know that it was my talent

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Speaker 2: that propelled me to do that's hard. I did a

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Speaker 2: ton of speaking so that people knew I was intelligent,

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Speaker 2: and actually the skills that experience gave me have helped

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Speaker 2: me for the rest of my life. The first week

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Speaker 2: I was Miss America, I was at this huge dinner

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Speaker 2: with two thousand people, and I thought I was just

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Speaker 2: there to attend, and right before dessert, the guy in

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Speaker 2: charge came up to me and whispered in my ear,

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Speaker 2: just wanted to let you know that your keynote is

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Speaker 2: in five minutes. And I said, excuse me, my keynote

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Speaker 2: And I said, oh, well, how long would you like

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Speaker 2: me to speak? And he said, oh, just forty five minutes.

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Speaker 2: I would shit. I went in the bathroom with cocktail

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Speaker 2: napkin and like a pencil and wrote down some bullet

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Speaker 2: points and learned from that point forward that I always

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Speaker 2: had to have a speech in my back pocket. But

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Speaker 2: it was just a week into this, so it really

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Speaker 2: gave me amazing communications skills. I'm not nervous about anything

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Speaker 2: after that. Right, you're twenty two years old and you're

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Speaker 2: forced to be fifty Wow.

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Speaker 1: But I think that's also something that mothers or parents

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Speaker 1: can think about with their kids, not leaning into looks

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Speaker 1: being the first thing I hear so many times. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a person that is totally comfortable being with no

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Speaker 1: makeup and obviously and pajamas.

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Speaker 3: I post how I look like a wreck.

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Speaker 1: I look like a wreck, Like I'm not defined by

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Speaker 1: what I look like at all, And it's never been

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Speaker 1: what's been forward facing. And it's funny because I used

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Speaker 1: to work with Paris and Nikki Hilton, worked for Kathy

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Speaker 1: and du Errands and be sort of there, you know,

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Speaker 1: take them to school and things like that, and they

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Speaker 1: were so stunningly beautiful, yet always really shy and quiet

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Speaker 1: because they really didn't they were lions, they were gorgeous.

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Speaker 1: They really didn't have to focus on personality then. But

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Speaker 1: I remember, actually their aunt Kyle used to talk about that, like,

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Speaker 1: that's not what they don't need to lean with. Their

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Speaker 1: minds and personalities need to lead with that, and they

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Speaker 1: developed that. But as women and daughters like you want

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Speaker 1: to kind of be the most interesting person in the

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Speaker 1: room versus just the hottest person room, So you were

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Speaker 1: trying to show everyone that you were more than that.

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Speaker 1: But also it sucks that you felt like you had

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Speaker 1: to explain why you were Miss America. You were kind

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Speaker 1: of explaining what the whole meaning of the pageant was about.

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Speaker 2: You're right, right, like there was no category for height,

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Speaker 2: but people would be like, oh, why isn't she taller?

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm like, wait a minute, Like but to

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Speaker 2: your point about parents, I used to get asked by

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Speaker 2: mothers during that time in my life, what should I

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Speaker 2: do to prepare my daughter to possibly be Miss America?

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Speaker 2: And I would be like, stop worrying about her exterior.

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Speaker 2: Have her start playing an instrument or a sport or

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Speaker 2: something where you learn value about yourself, and that you

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Speaker 2: learn by putting time into something that you get better

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Speaker 2: and that builds self esteem. So my main message has

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Speaker 2: always been building your self esteem from the inside of

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Speaker 2: your soul instead of how we look. And today, in

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Speaker 2: present day, that's just so much more important than when

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Speaker 2: you and I were growing up, and with social media

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Speaker 2: and everything else going on now, and it's one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons when I was at Fox that on the

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Speaker 2: International Day of the Girl in October of that year,

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Speaker 2: I did my show without makeup on and I was

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Speaker 2: the first person to do that on cable. Ze oh

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Speaker 2: really yeah, And my whole point was that we should

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Speaker 2: be valued for what's coming out of our mouth and

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Speaker 2: the interviews I was doing, and not how we look.

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Speaker 2: And trust me, the higher opposite fox were really mad

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Speaker 2: at me that day.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's right, I believe you because it's also but

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Speaker 1: it also has just if you're a smart person, it

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Speaker 1: has longevity. Looks don't have longevity brains do. I mean

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Speaker 1: he saw Judge Judy say like, if you can't do

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Speaker 1: it to twenty, do it at thirty, can't do it thirty,

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Speaker 1: do it at forty. And you know, remember she said,

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Speaker 1: thank god I never asked for equal pay with men,

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Speaker 1: because she was making more than any of the mem

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Speaker 1: I like that. And I also think that as we

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Speaker 1: get older, when I think about age, I don't think

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Speaker 1: about vanity. I never have, but I never think about vanity.

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Speaker 1: I don't think about wrinkles. I think about being healthy

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Speaker 1: for my daughter. I think about that, you know, the

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Speaker 1: numbers don't lie, and will I be around for her?

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Speaker 1: And like that's what makes me cry, not looking older.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm being wise for her. Like you've had so

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Speaker 2: many life experiences. I've had so many life experiences, and

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't mean to fast forward to what

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Speaker 2: I ended up doing seven years ago and taking down

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Speaker 2: the one of the most powerful men in the world.

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Speaker 2: But I have learned from my kids that those actions.

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Speaker 2: As much as I feared how it would impact their lives,

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Speaker 2: it actually has worked out so amazing because courage is contagious.

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Speaker 1: So how did you get on to Fox and Friends?

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Speaker 1: How did you become a TV personality?

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Speaker 3: Get a news so?

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Speaker 2: I mean it's a long, long journey because there's really

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Speaker 2: no set path to becoming it's one of the top

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Speaker 2: journalists there, especially now with reality TV, which you know

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Speaker 2: a lot about people become famous overnight and suddenly they're

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Speaker 2: doing TV and I'm like, wait a minute, they don't

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Speaker 2: know anything about news.

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Speaker 1: Oh and also TikTok journalists, So people reporting the news

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Speaker 1: on TikTok of the microphone is if like, it's interesting,

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Speaker 1: and some of.

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Speaker 3: Them were good at it. It's research, it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, so look, I'm not saying that they

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Speaker 2: shouldn't become popular at all. But when I was starting, well,

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Speaker 2: actually I was going to be a lawyer, so I

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Speaker 2: took the LSATs and then my whole Miss America experience

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Speaker 2: really put me in front of the camera on a

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Speaker 2: daily basis, and I had had sort of an interest

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Speaker 2: in the back of my brain, and so it rekindled

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Speaker 2: that interest. And then I knew my LSATs were good

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Speaker 2: for five years, so if the TV thing didn't work out,

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Speaker 2: I could still go to law school. And it's actually

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Speaker 2: one of my big regrets in my life that I've

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Speaker 2: never gotten the education because I'm such a student at

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Speaker 2: home and I always say to my husband, now do

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Speaker 2: you think I have time to fit in law school?

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Speaker 2: He's like, what are you talking about? But I still

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Speaker 2: might do it. But anyway, so I didn't go to

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Speaker 2: law school and I started in my first job in Richmond, Virginia,

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Speaker 2: and I knew nothing about TV. I mean it was

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Speaker 2: I had no idea what I was doing at all.

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Speaker 3: And where had you been living prior to that?

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Speaker 1: I was.

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Speaker 2: I finished my degree at Stanford after I was missed

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Speaker 2: right after I met So then I went to do

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Speaker 2: this job and three months into it, I got a

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Speaker 2: female boss, which was a godsend because she looked at

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Speaker 2: me and said, you're a hard worker. You're now the

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Speaker 2: political reporter. I was like, oh crap, Like what does

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Speaker 2: that mean? She goes you're covering the governor every day.

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Speaker 2: I'm likeugh, and you didn't know anything about politicians. Well,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about politics. I didn't know anything

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Speaker 2: about TV more importantly, because that was my job. TV's

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Speaker 2: such a like a as you know, learning while you're doing.

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Speaker 2: Like you it's a practical job in the sense that

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Speaker 2: you can't really study how to do it.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, it's practic's but being a chef in the kitchen,

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Speaker 1: you really have to get in the kitchen to do it.

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Speaker 1: Someone can tell you and you could read it about it,

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Speaker 1: didn't even hear about it, but you have to do it.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's harder probably to become a quote

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Speaker 1: unquote knowledgeable expert on politics and it is to learn

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Speaker 1: how to be on TV.

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Speaker 2: True, So I was learning both at the same time.

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Speaker 2: It was really a sink or swim situation. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: you know, I worked my full head off and built

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Speaker 2: up all these contacts and so you know, it worked out.

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Speaker 2: And so then after two years in TV, what happens

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Speaker 2: is you can't just like be promoted by going up

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Speaker 2: to the fifteenth floor. You got to move cities. So

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Speaker 2: you go to a bigger market. So then I went

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Speaker 2: to Cincinnati, and that's where I really learned how to

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Speaker 2: do live TV and turn things quickly. And then I

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Speaker 2: went to Cleveland and that was my first reporter and

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Speaker 2: anchor job. Then I got promoted to the main anchor

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Speaker 2: job in Cleveland. Then I met my husband on a

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Speaker 2: blind date, got married, and promptly got fired because I

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Speaker 2: was part of the first prime time local newscast with

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Speaker 2: two women. Okay, it was kind of a precursor to

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Speaker 2: what I ended up doing, but it didn't work, and

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Speaker 2: the other woman was like born and bred in Cleveland,

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Speaker 2: so I was the one to go. But it's a

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Speaker 2: horrible experience because it's like I was being made fun

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Speaker 2: of for being fired. But it's not like I went

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Speaker 2: out to a bar and like exposed myself and got

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Speaker 2: fired for cause, right, you know. It was just because

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Speaker 2: it didn't work, so and I'd just gotten married. It

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Speaker 2: was a really dark time in my life. I mean

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Speaker 2: I would sit in my garage and smoke cigarettes and.

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Speaker 3: That story before and cry because I was just.

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Speaker 2: Like, what am I going And it's hard enough to

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Speaker 2: get married. It's transition, and I was established in my career.

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Speaker 2: I was in my thirties, and then it was just

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Speaker 2: gone and it was sort of my identity. And so

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Speaker 2: I really struggled for that first year. And then I

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Speaker 2: and then, as fate would have it, I got like

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Speaker 2: three job offers, all in Dallas in the same week. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 2: how soon after a year?

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, because I feel that it's so funny people

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Speaker 1: want to put you down for your failures and really

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Speaker 1: bring them up, and you wouldn't have your successes without

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Speaker 1: your failing They're honestly valuable. And I have always been

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Speaker 1: a person who, in the moment when something I don't

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Speaker 1: get something or it fails, that I have always had

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Speaker 1: the wisdom to realize that it was all going to

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Speaker 1: something was going to come from that difficult time.

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Speaker 2: So I think you don't feel it when you're living it.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, and then my mom, of course, my mom

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Speaker 2: would tell me every day it's just around the corner,

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Speaker 2: like meaning a new job. So then, like I said,

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Speaker 2: his fate would have it, I got I got three

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Speaker 2: job offers. Ironically, the one I took was so my

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Speaker 2: boss in Cleveland, who had really nothing to do with

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Speaker 2: letting me go. She ended up going to work for

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Speaker 2: NBC in Dallas, and that was one of the job offers.

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Speaker 3: Oh great.

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Speaker 2: So it was like a testament to like, I really

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Speaker 2: enjoyed working with Gretchen and I'm going to bring her back.

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Speaker 2: But I did have to take a bit of a

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Speaker 2: step back because I went back to like anchoring the

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Speaker 2: weekend news, right, So I had to build myself back

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Speaker 2: up and within And by the way, I lived in

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Speaker 2: Dallas for a full year without my husband. We commuted.

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Speaker 3: That must have been brutal.

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Speaker 2: It was brutal, yeah, But then he finally moved down there,

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Speaker 2: and then nine months later I got a job with

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Speaker 2: CBS News in New York. And on my third date

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Speaker 2: with him, when we first started dating, I said to him,

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Speaker 2: this sounds like something you would say. I said, if

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Speaker 2: you don't want to move to New York City in

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Speaker 2: your life, don't call me back. Ah, that's where I'm going, right,

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Speaker 2: you know. And like I said, I was already in

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Speaker 2: my thirties, like I was established and relationships are kind

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Speaker 2: of secondary, right, And he said, well, that's where I

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Speaker 2: want to go too, So I was like, okay. So

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Speaker 2: we were very happy to move to New York City

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Speaker 2: and that was in two thousand and we were like

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Speaker 2: two passing ships in the night because he's a baseball agent,

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Speaker 2: so he was constantly on the road recruiting and going

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Speaker 2: to games. And I was an international correspondent for CBS News,

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Speaker 2: so I always had a suitcase packed and literally I

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Speaker 2: would have to be on my way to the airport

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Speaker 2: in two minutes after they called me to say such

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Speaker 2: and such happened, you have to go. So sometimes we'd

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Speaker 2: have date night in LaGuardia. You know, it was just like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen you for a week, but you're flying

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Speaker 2: to Tokyo and I'm going to you know, Istanbul, so

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Speaker 2: I guess we'll meet up. And it was it was

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Speaker 2: a really exciting time in our life. We could really

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Speaker 2: enjoy New York. We didn't have kids yet, and then

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Speaker 2: I got Then I got promoted to the Saturday early show,

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Speaker 2: which was always my dream to do a morning show

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Speaker 2: because it was like a combination of hard news but

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Speaker 2: also showing your personality and having fun, right. And it

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Speaker 2: was also then that I could start thinking about having kids,

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Speaker 2: because you know, morning shows are like they want to

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Speaker 2: show off the babies, and when you're an international correspondent,

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Speaker 2: not so much.

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Speaker 1: Oh, no, one's thinking of you as a mom. And also,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you liked the structure. No, Kelly rip

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Speaker 1: I talked to you about that she liked when she

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Speaker 1: got Regis and Kelly that she liked the structure. She

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Speaker 1: being an actress, was not the same sort of consistency

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Speaker 1: and structure.

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Speaker 2: So it is n Yeah, So then we, you know,

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Speaker 2: we started trying to get pregnant. I was blessed to

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Speaker 2: I have problems at first, but I was blessed to

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Speaker 2: have a daughter and soon after a son, and I

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Speaker 2: just hit the jackpot, you know. And then when my

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Speaker 2: son was three months old, Fox came calling and they

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Speaker 2: were like, how would you like to do a morning

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Speaker 2: show five days a week. Well, who wouldn't say yes

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Speaker 2: to that?

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Speaker 3: Of course?

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Speaker 2: You know, this is years ago.

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Speaker 3: I was on that show. Oh yeah, yeah, Fox and Friends.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was the number one cable news show

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Speaker 2: in the country and it became more popular once this,

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Speaker 2: you know, our group was assembled. But the hell started soon.

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Speaker 1: After, right, So the hell was while you were on Fox.

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Speaker 1: You were on Fox and Friends for how many years? Eight?

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Speaker 2: That's a long And then I had my own show

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Speaker 2: at Fox for three years. But so I got fired

408
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Speaker 2: from Fox and Friends at the height of the height

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Speaker 2: of the popularity because it was retaliation for me not

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Speaker 2: acquiescing to sexual demands. Wow. And so it was made

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Speaker 2: to look like I got a promotion because they gave

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Speaker 2: me my own show in the afternoon, But it was

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Speaker 2: actually a demotion. They slashed my pay in half. They

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Speaker 2: gave me a desk from the broken closet, I mean

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Speaker 2: the broken desk from the closet. I had the smallest

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Speaker 2: producing staff. I mean, it was like it was like

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Speaker 2: a three year journey to try and make me invisible

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Speaker 2: so that when they actually fired me, people wouldn't miss out.

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Speaker 1: Oh and that also it looked like there was a

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Speaker 1: history of it was bad. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: I didn't have viewers, my ratings, you know, the whole.

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Speaker 2: I mean, imagine if that time and energy. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, this is not only happening at Fox News,

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Speaker 2: and by the way, in every industry this is happening

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Speaker 2: where women and men are subjected to sexual misconduct and

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Speaker 2: then when they don't do it, they're retaliated against.

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Speaker 1: Right well, also even not just limited to that, just

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Speaker 1: sanctions and punishment for being bad, Like you feel like

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Speaker 1: a child for being bad. And I recently likened it

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Speaker 1: to cult like behavior because the person at the top,

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Speaker 1: often a male figure, has the power and the charisma

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Speaker 1: and is feeding off of all the machinations and the

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Speaker 1: chessboard and the pieces that they're moving around, and has

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Speaker 1: individual relationships with each person that the others don't know about,

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Speaker 1: and they're promising individual things they're giving, they're taking away.

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Speaker 1: And isn't that Is that in a sound familiar.

437
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,919
Speaker 2: You and I are just talking the same language at

438
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,440
Speaker 2: this whole podcast, because that's exactly what this is all about.

439
00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 3: And did you ever think about it in a cult man?

440
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,600
Speaker 2: You said that were, well, yes, I believe Well Fox

441
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 2: has gotten just way out of hand, different from even

442
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 2: when I was there. Yeah, I would never ever, ever, ever, ever,

443
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 2: ever work at Fox News in this you know, iteration

444
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 2: of it, right, but you factor that this is now

445
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 2: Let's see, I was there eleven years. I've been gone seven,

446
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 2: so eighteen years ago I took that job at Fox

447
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 2: and Friends. I didn't even know that it was like,

448
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 2: It's not that I'm naive. I didn't even know it

449
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:25,879
Speaker 2: was a political channel.

450
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,479
Speaker 1: At the time when we were growing up, news was

451
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:33,640
Speaker 1: not you didn't have anchors eye rolling about the opposite party,

452
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: like it's almost juvenile. When we were growing up, news

453
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 1: was definitely more neutral.

454
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:39,639
Speaker 3: It wasn't so liked.

455
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 1: Like it's the news, you're supposed to seem somewhat impartial.

456
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 1: And it's become like almost scripted.

457
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 2: No, it's totally like we only watch what we want

458
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,199
Speaker 2: to hear, so everything becomes siloed. And that's how we

459
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 2: have gotten into this great divide.

460
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:54,919
Speaker 1: Right, you can hear what you want to hear by go,

461
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: like the way people call their friends to tell them

462
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 1: what they want to hear, or hate who they want

463
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 1: them to hate. That's what That's what the news in

464
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:02,639
Speaker 1: general is like.

465
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: Now. To me, some people still think I'm on Fox

466
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 2: when I walk through the airport, and why is that

467
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 2: because that's the only thing they watch. And obviously Fox

468
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: News never reported on the fact that I brought down

469
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 2: the guy who ran it, right, so they in their

470
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,680
Speaker 2: brains still think they see me on Fox News, which

471
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 2: is just crazy. So and by the way, Roger Ails

472
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 2: is my alleged predator, is the one who created Opinion TV,

473
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,120
Speaker 2: and so when it started twenty five thirty years ago,

474
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 2: it was I don't want to give him any credit,

475
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 2: but it was a brilliant idea because it was at

476
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 2: that time that people the internet was starting, and people

477
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 2: were getting their news at work, right, so when they

478
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,199
Speaker 2: got home at night, they actually wanted to see what

479
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 2: people thought about the news.

480
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 1: Yes, and also infotainment. It was you know, it wasn't

481
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 1: just the news dry because everything's become infotainment because you know,

482
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 1: they're going to start selling the clothes off of anchors

483
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,199
Speaker 1: back soon, because you have to have more ways to

484
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: monetize what you're doing. And it's it is, it's it's

485
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 1: just the nature of the beast exactly. Okay, So how

486
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 1: do you take this on? So you feel like you're

487
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: being demoted, you feel like you're being fired, how do

488
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 1: you what's your first step to taking down a person

489
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: at a network? Like who are you talking to? What

490
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 1: are you doing so? And how many years ago is this?

491
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: Because I watched I.

492
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 2: Was fired seven years ago. You fired seven years and

493
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 2: I sued two weeks later, So I was already thinking

494
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: about this.

495
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 3: When did you sign an NDA.

496
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 2: Upon my resolution? After I came forward and sued, and

497
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 2: then you know, we came to a settlement agreement and

498
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 2: then part of that and my settlement was very progressive actually,

499
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 2: because I got a public apology that never happens. And that's,

500
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: by the way, that's all survivors ever want is because

501
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: it validates their claims. I got that, which was huge,

502
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: and I also gave that Fox News and Rupert Murdoch

503
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 2: and News Corps.

504
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, they acknowledge a valid Oh my god.

505
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: I to apologize for the horrible treatment that I faced

506
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 2: and that I was a reputable, you know, talented woman

507
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 2: who should have never ever he had. When the news

508
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 2: came out about my settlement, ironically, I was getting my

509
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 2: nails done in pedicure because I was waiting to get

510
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 2: a haircut on the first day of school after we

511
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: dropped off our kids, and tears were just streaming down

512
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 2: my face because the headlines that came out were they

513
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: apologized to her, They apologized to her chills survivors. Thousands

514
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 2: of people have reached out to me since saying that's

515
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 2: all I ever wanted, right and and then so, but

516
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: what came. I was also given the ability to speak

517
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 2: openly about issues like sexual harassment in the workplace, which

518
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 2: I've taken full advantage of in the laws that I've passed,

519
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 2: and the millions of people that I've helped. What I

520
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 2: have been silenced about are all my basically my truth,

521
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 2: my whole story of my eleven years at Fox. I

522
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: can't tell you really what happened to me.

523
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 3: Do you have any regrets?

524
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 2: I have absolutely no regrets about coming forward I have.

525
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 3: Now, do you have regrets about the settlement?

526
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: You?

527
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 3: Maybe you can't talk about.

528
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 2: This, But how could I have known? You've had so

529
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: many twists and turns in your life too, so you'll

530
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 2: relate to this. How could I have known that I

531
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: was igniting an international movement called me Too when I

532
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:20,719
Speaker 2: came forward?

533
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: Right?

534
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 2: I thought I was going to be crying at home

535
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life because I was fired

536
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: and never work as a journalist ever again. So that

537
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 2: was the first thing. Number two. How could I have

538
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 2: known that because of that movement and how well known

539
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 2: my story would become, that it would inspire so many

540
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 2: other people to come forward, and then that I'd actually

541
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: be doing advocacy work to get rid of NDAs. How

542
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 2: would I know that in a short span of seven years,

543
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 2: I'm actually have passed laws now that get rid of NDAs.

544
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 3: Can you do that on your own?

545
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: I mean, so far nobody really wants to be on

546
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: board about opening up people's truths from time in the past.

547
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 3: I don't know.

548
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: I disagree because I don't I think because this you're.

549
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 2: Not about politicians who don't want to do that.

550
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: Oh No, I just want to talk about this topic

551
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: because I truly feel like there we're going to get

552
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: into the reality reckoning. And if you've heard about it

553
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: and what you think about it, yeah, and if they're parallels,

554
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are. But the thing is, I do

555
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: not think that a place like Bravo for example, or

556
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: any of the big networks or streamers now can get

557
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: away with suing someone who speaks up about improper treatment

558
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: because the court of public opinion is so much more

559
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: powerful than the court of the law. I just think

560
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: it would be too damaging for them. Like I think

561
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: if anybody silenced you from deciding now that you made

562
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: the wrong decision about that one thing, I just don't

563
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: think that they would. I don't think that they would

564
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: take action, and I just don't think they'd win.

565
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 2: But keep in mind, I was the first person to

566
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 2: take the house down.

567
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 3: Well, and also you get criticized because you took money.

568
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but here's the whole problem with that. The

569
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: way that gets publicized. How is it good publicity? It

570
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 2: gets publicized that and this is how we think culturally

571
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: that people who sign settlement agreements get money for their silence. No,

572
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: you want to know what people are getting money for.

573
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: They never freaking work again. That's true because they get

574
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: black buld from the industry. It's true to consider to

575
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: be a troublemaker. And that's what I'm also trying to change,

576
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 2: not just laws, but and by the way, passing bipartisan

577
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: legislation in the most hyper political time of our generation

578
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 2: is easier than changing culture. And that's saying a lot.

579
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: No, I'm just saying it's hard to because I've watched

580
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: other people in this sphere. I'm not suing anyone and

581
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: I'm not asking for any anything. So it's very powerful

582
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: because you can't say that I'm just going for money. Now,

583
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's what you did. You experienced torture.

584
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: And also someone should be whatever. Yes, it's that you

585
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: can't work again, but it's okay to say I want

586
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: compensation for what I experienced or that there were damages

587
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 1: or it's damages, because.

588
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 2: You can that's an old school way of solving these things.

589
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: So what I'm trying to do through Lift our Voices

590
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: now is change the way companies think about these things.

591
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 2: They spend millions of dollars trying to cover things up. Oh,

592
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: I you know, imagine if they actually put all those

593
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: resources into independent investigations that don't penalize the person who

594
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 2: had the courage to come forward. How this should work

595
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 2: is like, let's say I come forward. I say this

596
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 2: is how I'm being treated At Fox News, they do

597
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 2: an independent investigation, not the kind walls hr or hiring

598
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: a law firm for a million bucks that they've worked

599
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 2: with for twenty years, none of that bullshit. Independent use

600
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 2: the money that they're using to cover up shit. Do

601
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 2: an independent investigation, find out Gretchen's telling the truth. She

602
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: gets to keep her job. Why why should people who

603
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: have courage to come forward be the ones that get

604
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 2: shunted out never work again. And by the way, because

605
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: it's all secret, the perpetrator gets to keep their job

606
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: because nobody knows what's happening. And this is how this

607
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: vicious cycle y has gone.

608
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: I agree, I'm actually not on It's actually not that

609
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: dissimilar what I'm talking about. So the reality reckoning, I'm

610
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: not sure what you understand about it totally.

611
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 2: I've read all, I know everything you're doing.

612
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 3: But what happens?

613
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: I just said something I literally wasn't even about me

614
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 1: per se. It was just like, wait a second. This

615
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: is the most exploited group because these are people that

616
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: are being themselves quote unquote playing themselves and they lose

617
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: jobs and kids are damaged forever and have mics on them.

618
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: And what's different, though, is that you could define that

619
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: it was improper improper practices in the workplace. The reason

620
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: that this is more cave era and more archaic is

621
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: this is not a workplace. So you have to be

622
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: there on time. You are not allowed to not show up.

623
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: You have rules, you have contracts, you have regulations, but

624
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: they're entirely to benefit the realm. You are not an

625
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: actual worker, so you don't. You get paid by a

626
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: third party, so it doesn't seem like you're a real worker,

627
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: meaning you can you could drink forty drinks at work here.

628
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: You could be an addict that's recovering and start doing

629
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: drugs and that will be celebrated in this workplace. The

630
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: person is not valued. But the similarity is that the

631
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: top is literally monetizing and benefiting from this off of

632
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: women's backs, and it's an environment where it's literally celebrated

633
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: and designed for women to trash other women, to set

634
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: to not explore people's lives, but to exploit them. It's

635
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: the upside down because we don't even have the baseline

636
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: of it being a workplace to then say this is

637
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: improper work in the workplace.

638
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 2: Well, let me tell you the two laws I passed

639
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: last year to get rid of NDA's for sexual misconduct

640
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: and forced arbitration, which is the other way that you're silenced.

641
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: People have no idea what that is, but it means

642
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 2: that you can't go to court, you can't openly sue somebody,

643
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: You have to go to this secret place. Yes, exactly, yea,

644
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: which is so my two laws I passed even protect

645
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: reality show workers, okay, even though because they're independent contractors

646
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: right yep. So I made sure to have that in

647
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,719
Speaker 2: the language of both of my bills, because, especially after COVID,

648
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 2: there are so many gig workers, independent contractors, migrant workers.

649
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: They're all covered on my So your reality fight for you.

650
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 2: There is a lot of synergy. Oh, yeah, my laws

651
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: actually protect reality show workers even though they're not real employees.

652
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: So if they faced sexual misconduct during their time while

653
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: they're there, they don't have to be silenced anymore.

654
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: There's also there's no one to go to. There is

655
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: no hall monitor, there is no HR, there would be

656
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: no one to talk to. You'd be talking to a

657
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: producer who's paid to get you to drink. And doesn't

658
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: mean they're pouring it down your throat. It means they're

659
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: having alcohol everywhere and telling someone else get her to

660
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: play that drinking game. And there's no therapy. And I've

661
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: seen people have nervous breakdo I've seen people have breakdowns

662
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: and then be put on television days after, like it's

663
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: actually abuse and it's emotional abuse and so and by

664
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,239
Speaker 1: the way, many people don't get compensated at all and

665
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: forever like you didn't get.

666
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 3: Paid well known, and then they know even if you

667
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: are well known.

668
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: Then I got paid fifty dollars from my first season,

669
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: and fifteen years later, I'm on the entire buses and

670
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: those are still being aired in My picture is still

671
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: on the thumb print and I don't see any of that.

672
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: You don't get a residual from that zero God.

673
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: No, no one realizes that that if and now they

674
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: sell They've just sold it again. They keep selling and

675
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: selling and selling, So Bravo sells it. We're gonna hack

676
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: up the chicken number, giving something to hey you, Hey you, Australia,

677
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: hey u UK, to Amazon, to this one, to that one,

678
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: to Peacock not a thing, and the memes, the and

679
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: the gifts, like we are really in the dark ages

680
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: because even and it's hard to say, even someplace like

681
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: Fox or CBS or CNN or ABC, there is some

682
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: like there is some sort of governor, like there is

683
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: a you sign a contract, you're supposed to be in

684
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: a workplace, you can say like this is not okay,

685
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: you might not be heard, but there this is not even.

686
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: This is literally the wild wild West, and no one's

687
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: looked at it.

688
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 3: For thirty years.

689
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: So well, good for you for so.

690
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,239
Speaker 1: But but more importantly than the details about it is

691
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: like I know you felt this. What it feels like

692
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: to say something first, to know that you're right, and

693
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people on the macro level to agree

694
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: and know that you're right. But the peers and the

695
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: people in the mid level that are scaredy cats. They're

696
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 1: the ones making you think that you might be fucked,

697
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: that you might be like you know what I'm saying,

698
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: Like my brain is upside and I'll see people on

699
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: the street and I'll hear from people that are running

700
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: multi billion dollar, you know, publicly traded companies in entertainment

701
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: that are saying, I want to hear what you're doing.

702
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: I want to be part of it, Sagan after coming

703
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: to me, I want to be part of it. Everyone

704
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: knows I'm right, but at my peer level and the

705
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: mid level, I'm toxic and people won't work for me,

706
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: and some producers won't work with me. I don't care,

707
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: because I also think that I started this at a

708
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: later period in my career in life than you did.

709
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: You were younger, and like you said, like earning power

710
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: was cut off earlier, Like I'm I'm I want to

711
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: be in my pajamas doing makeup in cottage cheese videos, you.

712
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 3: Know what I mean?

713
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: So like I'm not, But I definitely have risked a

714
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: lot and like been on the verge of cancelation for

715
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: this thing that I'm not even making money for. But

716
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: I have all these people behind me that are now

717
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: depending upon me and I can't open You can't open

718
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: your mouth, which is what all celebrities do, and not

719
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: back it up.

720
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 3: Right, you got to go the way.

721
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: Look, your path is very similar to what I did.

722
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: You're helping people you'll never meet, right, right. I say

723
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 2: this all the time. This will be my legacy. What

724
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: I'm doing now. I'm helping millions of people who I

725
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: will never ever meet in this world because we have

726
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: gazillions of workers in America. Right And the work I'm

727
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: doing at Lift our Voice is to get rid of

728
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: the way we silence these stories. I have a lot

729
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: of people who disagree with me too, mainly companies because

730
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 2: they don't.

731
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: Want to deal with it.

732
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: They like their dirty laundry being silence. Right. But the

733
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: people I'm helping it's massive. Oh yes, it's basically everyone

734
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: from from minimum wage workers up to white collar jobs,

735
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: because we're all subjected to these silencing mechanisms. But we

736
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 2: have no idea what we're signing when we start a job.

737
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: That's you're also helping people that disagree with you and

738
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: were too scared to stick up for it, and they

739
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: knew you, and they knew that you were right, and

740
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: you had people secretly texting you telling you that they

741
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: don't have the courage that you do. But you're right,

742
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: and they're cheering you on. You were having silent cheers, right.

743
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, I mean I didn't hear from a

744
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: tremendous amount of people at Fox News, but the rest

745
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: of the world, Yes.

746
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 3: Well, what about the rest of the entertainment industry too?

747
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: Oh?

748
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 2: Look, this is rampant, as we saw, because then the

749
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: Harvey Weinstein allegations came out fifteen months after my stories.

750
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: But the only reason those came out is because the

751
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 2: reporters of the New York Times were given the green

752
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: light to actually look into them more seriously because my

753
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: case had come forward.

754
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 3: And you don't get the credit for that.

755
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: No, no, I don't. But I know what happened exactly.

756
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: And I know they always say that the me too

757
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: movements started in October of whatever year that was, and

758
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, wait a minute, because I came forward

759
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 2: in July, fifteen months before that, which you know, Look,

760
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 2: there's so many of us who played a part in this,

761
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 2: But definitely it took an immense courage from me to

762
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 2: be by myself and jump off the cliff.

763
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: That's why it's funny because you deserve the credit and

764
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: you want it because you know how you felt naked,

765
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: alone and afraid, like I have been standing naked me

766
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: like what am I doing? Why am I doing this?

767
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: What am Your head's blowing up? You don't know what

768
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: you're doing? And yeah, you want the credit because it

769
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: wasn't easy. When you first opened your mouth, you were

770
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 1: shitting your pants. But you open your mouth and then

771
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: once the words came out, you're like, all right, I

772
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: guess we're going.

773
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there was no safety net below except for

774
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 2: all the survivors who started reaching out to me, and

775
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: they actually were what buoyed me in my darkest days.

776
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 2: I realized there were two epidemics. There was an epidemic

777
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: of misconduct in the workplace, right, but there was also

778
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 2: an epidemic of putting it under the carpet and silencing it.

779
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 2: And that's when I rolled up my sleeves and back

780
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 2: to how we started, with my hard work ethic that

781
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 2: I've had my whole life. I was like, I got

782
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: to do something about this, like I have to. I

783
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: have to pay tribute to all these people who came

784
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 2: before me, who nobody has ever heard of because they

785
00:35:58,640 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 2: were silenced.

786
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you were saying, there's two problems. One the

787
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: actual issue to the cover your ass exactly cover your

788
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: ass is massive. I'm dealing with cover your ass. And

789
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: once the thing I will say to people who want

790
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: to fight for something and who could possibly have the courage,

791
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: that is kind of what you're saying, once the match

792
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: gets lit, it's a forest fire, they cannot stop it.

793
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 1: Like that's I'm already there, like where I'm telling people,

794
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: don't worry, we got this. And I'm not even sure how.

795
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: I just am positive, not even like blind faith. Like

796
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: it's too powerful, it's too true.

797
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: And you don't even have to get politicians to agree

798
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: with you, which I do passing laws. That sounds. So

799
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: I've walked the halls of Congress for the last you know,

800
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 2: six six and a half years, And to your point

801
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,439
Speaker 2: about knowing that you're doing the right thing, but having

802
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 2: no idea when you actually start it. H So for

803
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 2: me last year being at the White House and standing

804
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: up on a stage with the Vice President and President

805
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 2: of the United States, yes, and introducing them and being

806
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: the voice for all of the survivors all across America

807
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 2: and standing there and watch him sign this first bill

808
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 2: into law and handing me the pen.

809
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 3: Wow.

810
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: That that is the justification for me jumping off of

811
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: that cliff without knowing what the hell was going to

812
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: happen to me. Not because of Gretchen Carlson, because on

813
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: that day we gave power back to millions of people

814
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: who have been subjected to these kinds of things at work.

815
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: And then eight months later we did it again with

816
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 2: our NBA bill. These are the two biggest labor law

817
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: changes in the last one hundred years.

818
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: This labor law is a very big issue right now.

819
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: I was talking to Juju about this. They're very interested

820
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: in this over the area you talk to them.

821
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 3: But you're right.

822
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: The first validation was getting your personal apology, and now

823
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: the validation is passing laws and know the lawyers that

824
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: are helping all these people. They want me to go

825
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: to Washington and because you know of a union and unfair.

826
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll talk to someone and say that I should

827
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: have them on, but like then it has to really

828
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: pop off. Why otherwise we're just talking about fluff like

829
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: I was recently, Like I've got to talk to you

830
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: because we do have similarities and this is so interesting

831
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: and you really did break through, and I think that that.

832
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 3: What did you think of the documentary?

833
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 2: There was a movie called Bombshell, and then there was

834
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: a mini series called The Loudest Voice.

835
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 3: The Loudest Voice.

836
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, So just to put in perspective for

837
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 2: your listeners about how restrictive NDAs are they. I've had

838
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: people come up to me and be like, oh, I

839
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: saw your miniseries and I saw your movie, and I'm like, actually,

840
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 2: those are not my projects because I can't participate in

841
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: anything best on my NDA.

842
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 3: That's why I'm asking what you thought, though, Well.

843
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 2: I can't even tell you, which is my point.

844
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 3: Well was it good?

845
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: You can't say it was at you can't say anything.

846
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: You can't say good, or I can't.

847
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: Say the portrayal was accurate. Here's what I can say,

848
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: and now my brain's again in overdrive. I can say

849
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: that I think it's absolutely amazing and wonderful that actresses

850
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,399
Speaker 2: of the caliber of Naomi Watts and Nicole Kidman took

851
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: on these roles playing Gretchen Carls. I'm like, I'm just

852
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 2: a small town kid who grow up Minnesota, right, Like,

853
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: that's crazy. Okay. The fact that they thought that this

854
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: issue was important. Great point, right, The movie and the

855
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 2: miniseries has probably helped countless numbers of people to also

856
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 2: develop the same kind of courage worth it. Whether or

857
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 2: not I can actually tell you that, you know, the

858
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 2: portrayal of me is accurate or not, kind of doesn't

859
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: matter if those two things are more. Oh and the

860
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 2: third thing is Hollywood would have never made these projects

861
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 2: seven years ago, right right? I mean, so that's the

862
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: third big thing. I mean, would I love to own

863
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 2: my own truth? Like people are always alarmed when I

864
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: give speeches or do interviews and I say I don't

865
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: own my own truth. I don't own my own story.

866
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 2: How fucked up? Is that?

867
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 3: Very fucked up?

868
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, But the bigger the bigger picture is people want.

869
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 1: It happens in divorces with custody agreements or divorce or

870
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: you just signed because you said the deal, fatigue, you're exhausted,

871
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: you got something, somebody broke down. Your lawyer says to you,

872
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: fucking sign it, just sign it, and you don't. God

873
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: doesn't give you everything, But really be careful on what

874
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: you sign, because I'm sure you have some regrets and

875
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: because you just didn't know you'd be on this trajectory,

876
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: this deep.

877
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 2: I would never know, and it was just commonplace. But

878
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,919
Speaker 2: now it's not. We've passed laws in states now where

879
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: we can be more progressive than on Capitol Hill in

880
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: New Jersey, California, and Washington State, and we've now introduced

881
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 2: it in New York. You can't use NDAs for anything anymore.

882
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 2: It's amazing. So it's not an option if you live

883
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 2: and work in those states. And that is huge as

884
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 2: we continue to move state to state to state, because

885
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: what's happening is companies that are based in those states

886
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: now they're kind of in a pickle because if they

887
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 2: have employees all over globally, but they can't enforce NDAs

888
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: for people who live in those three states, but they

889
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 2: can make sure people are under NDAs everywhere else. A

890
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: lot of big companies have changed their policy to take

891
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 2: out NDAs for everyone, right.

892
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 3: But I don't know why.

893
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: I just have this feeling that you'll have a you'll

894
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: claw us back at some point. I just have this

895
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: film that Jogo that there'll be some law that's passed

896
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: that includes where you used to work Fox, and that

897
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: they'll have to publish if they'll they would have to

898
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: public say you can talk about your story because they

899
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: don't represent that anymore.

900
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 3: Something.

901
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: It has got to be a way that you will find.

902
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: You'll find I would find a way to tell my

903
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: story well, because I would make the people fight for

904
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: me to tell my story. And the people say, like, unleash,

905
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 1: show us the tapes.

906
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've said publicly that Fox has gone out and

907
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 2: said that they've cleaned up their act. If that's the case, right,

908
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: then let me out in my na right, But you

909
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: don't let me out, so maybe you haven't cleaned up

910
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: the act. I'm you know, the more progress we make,

911
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 2: Bethany with these laws, the more pressure there will be

912
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 2: to eventually pass a law to make them give up

913
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 2: all their past people that they've silenced too.

914
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 3: And when you're talking about Fox, you're talking about Fox News.

915
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 2: That's what you know.

916
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: Do you know what goes on with Fox Entertainment. I

917
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: just did Snake Oil. I had a great experience, Like do.

918
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: You know, I have no idea, but I do know

919
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 2: that my nda is with the parent company, and so

920
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 2: they try and entangle you so that if even one

921
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 2: of those entities decided to let you talk, you're still

922
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 2: screwed because the other two. So my third you're not

923
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: going to believe this. The third person or group in

924
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 2: my nda is Roger Ayls, who was my alleged predator

925
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 2: who died, right But even though he's a dead mass,

926
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: his wife Uh wow, Yeah, she would have to agree.

927
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: How crazy is that she'd have to agree to let

928
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 2: me out even though he's dead. That's that's how screwed

929
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 2: up this country became with silencing its people. And so look,

930
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 2: this movement this time isn't going away. So you're right.

931
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 2: There is what we're hoping for with our work at

932
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 2: Lift our Voices. That is that there will be this

933
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 2: public outcry that people will say, we're not going to

934
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 2: work at places that silence us anymore. Yeah. And in fact,

935
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 2: this coming year, we're going to put out the first

936
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: ever survey so that people will know companies that silence

937
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: them and companies that don't. That'll be a huge resource

938
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: for people to understand because it's the number one question

939
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: I get. But it's also going to be a subtle

940
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: nudge to companies to change their policies because they're going

941
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: to get a bad grade for me and I come

942
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 2: as a credible source on this issue. So if I

943
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: say this company silences their people and I'm giving them

944
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 2: an f that might spur them on to change their policies.

945
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: And where are you saying all this? How do you

946
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: where we're currently doing all the research right now? No,

947
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: I mean, what's your current vehicle for communication? You're not

948
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: on tell are you on television regularly? Like where are

949
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: you saying all this? Whereas yea, you're here today talking

950
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: about this, but where are people sharing.

951
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: Ass TV conferences? Social media? You know you and I

952
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 2: can do something together so you can help me get

953
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 2: the word out and vice versa. But eventually this is

954
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: going to be released sometime next year. First of it's kind,

955
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 2: nobody else is judging companies using my metrics of whether

956
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: or not they silence you, and I believe it's the

957
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: silver bullet to equity.

958
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 3: So what are some great companies?

959
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 2: They're very few and far between, Like, what.

960
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: Are companies that have jumped off the page of Airbnb

961
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: is a great company and Airbnb is donated by the

962
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 1: way to be strong and helped people.

963
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 3: So we've worked with them. So that's I'm glad you

964
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 3: said that.

965
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I can't vouch for what goes on

966
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: inside of airbas you're saying, from your perspective and from

967
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: my perspective, they don't use forced arbitration and they don't

968
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 2: use NDAs amazing. And now now, of course, because of

969
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: my laws, no company can use forced arbitration for sexual

970
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 2: misconduct anymore. Right, But here's the problem, Bethany. They're not

971
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 2: going to tell the employees that they don't have to

972
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 2: tell the employees. So let's say you signed a contract

973
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 2: ten years ago and it has an NDA and a

974
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 2: forced arbitration clause, and you're being sexually harassed. You don't

975
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 2: have to abide by the NDA or the forced arbitration anymore,

976
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 2: but you may not know that. So me getting this

977
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 2: word out is so important.

978
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: I agree because at what the lawyers have said is

979
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 1: happening with with Bravo, and I feel like the word

980
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: arbitration has been around, it's everywhere, and you feel like

981
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: arbitration is a scam.

982
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: Here, Okay, here's what I want to hear about. Here's

983
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 2: what it is. So arbitration was never intended to adjudicate

984
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: human rights violations at work. It was it was like

985
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 2: if I was your neighbor and you knocked over my

986
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 2: fence with your car.

987
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 3: Like the people's court exactly.

988
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 2: Instead of clogging the court system, they came up with

989
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 2: a process called arbitration for a three hundred dollars claim,

990
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 2: so the judges wouldn't be bogged down with all these

991
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: ridiculous cases. Okay, that was the point of arbitration. Go

992
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 2: to an arbiter, work out your claims, pay your three

993
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 2: hundred bucks, goodbye. Companies got smart about forty years ago

994
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 2: and decided to start putting forced arbitration clauses in PA contracts,

995
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 2: so if anything bad happened, nothing would ever come out

996
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 2: because arbitration is a secret process interest so you couldn't

997
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 2: openly sue. So what's happened over time with NBA's and

998
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: forced arbitration is that America thought we had come so

999
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 2: far in discrimination and sexual harassment all that because nobody

1000
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 2: was ever hearing about these cases. And so when I

1001
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 2: jumped off the cliff and then the mountain happened with

1002
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 2: all these people coming forward, the American public got pissed

1003
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: because they were like, wait a minute, I thought we

1004
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: had solved this. The reason that they didn't know about

1005
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 2: it was because it was all going to secrecy. All

1006
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,439
Speaker 2: these cases, thousands, hundreds of thousands of them were going

1007
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: to force arbitration instead of an open court. Wow, So

1008
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 2: these people, And the scariest part about it is only

1009
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 2: two percent of all arbitration cases are found for the complainant.

1010
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 2: So why bother lawyers won't even take your case if

1011
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: you have a forced arbitration clause? And because it's a

1012
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 2: secret process, nobody knows that there's a predator who's going

1013
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 2: to arbitration and they get to keep working. You're fired,

1014
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: you never work again, you don't get you don't get

1015
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 2: any compensation. So the only reason you know about my story, Bethany,

1016
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 2: is because my lawyer, I happened to be able to

1017
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 2: have the resources to have brilliant lawyers, which not everybody can, okay,

1018
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 2: And they came up with a brilliant strategy to sue

1019
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 2: Roger Ayles personally to try to circumvent my forced arbitration

1020
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 2: clause that I had with the company.

1021
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 3: A strategy.

1022
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 2: It's the only way my case became public and not

1023
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 2: everyone has that opportunity or option. We arguably would not

1024
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: be in the me too movement if they had not

1025
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:39,240
Speaker 2: thought of that, Okay. So forced arbitration is an unbelievable evil.

1026
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 2: Next year, eighty four percent of all Americans will be

1027
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 2: under it. Eighty four percent of us. That's an explosion

1028
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 2: from nineteen ninety one when only two percent of us.

1029
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: Was look at your contracts exactly, look at your contracts.

1030
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 2: And one third of all Americans sign NDAs on their

1031
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 2: first day of work. One third they think they're signing

1032
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 2: only to protect trade secrets where they work.

1033
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: So that's no, that's what Bravo just said. The NDA

1034
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:06,919
Speaker 1: is just to protect storylines.

1035
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 3: But who cares?

1036
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? But have a lawyer look

1037
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 2: at that, because let me tell you something, these NDA

1038
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 2: clauses don't scream to you. If something bad happens to

1039
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 2: you, you won't be able to talk about it. It just

1040
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: looks like you're never if you work at coke, you're

1041
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 2: not going to go across the street to Pepsi and

1042
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 2: give the recipe.

1043
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 3: No, it's but by the way, it's no, it's what

1044
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 3: Bravo's saying. They're saying.

1045
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: Of course, it was just to protect story Back to

1046
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: the cover your ass model, which who everything leaks in

1047
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 1: the media anyway, No one cares who Ramona sleeping with.

1048
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: It's not a secret because someone's leaked it to the media.

1049
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: So that's bullshit.

1050
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,439
Speaker 2: I bet the NDA is broader than that. I bet

1051
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 2: it also means that anything bad that happens to anyone

1052
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 2: on set that they can't talk about it.

1053
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 3: No, you also can't sue other people.

1054
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 2: That's right.

1055
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 3: You can't sue other people that you work with.

1056
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,720
Speaker 2: Sometimes people click on emails Bethany that they get from

1057
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 2: their company. Just from clicking on the email, they agree

1058
00:48:58,680 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 2: to forced arbitration.

1059
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 3: That's criminal, it's insane.

1060
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 2: They haven't even they haven't they don't even understand. Well,

1061
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 2: first of all, they didn't even get a chance to

1062
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 2: understand it because they just who doesn't click on an

1063
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 2: email from work?

1064
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 1: The government should be giving you grants to like have

1065
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people under you to do this, Like

1066
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: this should be a real, like, you know, not for

1067
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: profit business.

1068
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 2: Well this is so. Lift our Voices is not for profit.

1069
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 2: But we are always in major fundraising mode because we're

1070
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: the only organization doing this work in the world. Yeah,

1071
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 2: and yes, we're trying to raise money to build out

1072
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 2: our infrastructure. I always say that I need to clone

1073
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 2: myself by like a thousand people because I have the

1074
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 2: capacity to do so much work, and I've been successful

1075
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 2: in it, but you need money to hire people.

1076
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: This has been cracked open, and I'm sure we won't

1077
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: do everything perfectly. There'll be some eggs broken to make

1078
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,439
Speaker 1: an omelet like you didn't do it perfectly. You can't

1079
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: even tell your fucking story, so that's not perfect. But

1080
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: you've made a lot of progress in Amail.

1081
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: I've taken advantage of every possible thing that I did

1082
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 2: get out of that settle, Yeah, which was my voice

1083
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 2: on these issues. You know, I can't give you the

1084
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 2: details of what he said to me and what he

1085
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 2: did to me, and that doesn't really matter when I'm

1086
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 2: passing laws and.

1087
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 3: It's not just about you, that's what you're saying. It's

1088
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 3: not about you.

1089
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: It's not about what he said to you. That's gossip.

1090
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: You're talking about the whole systematic change.

1091
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 2: I want to make sure that Britain and my children

1092
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 2: are not silenced in the next generation. Yeah, okay, And

1093
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 2: we thought we had solved all this crap in our

1094
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 2: generation and guess what we were fooling the American public

1095
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 2: because it was all going to secrecy. Yes, So now

1096
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: I vow to the rest of the world that we're

1097
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: solving it now for our kids. And actually a lot

1098
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 2: of this starts with our young boys, because we do

1099
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 2: a really good job of raising up our girls. That's

1100
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 2: not what this is about. Men rule the world still, yes,

1101
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: and we need to get to those men to say

1102
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 2: at a young age, help us do this, Help lift

1103
00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 2: us up. Stop silencing people in the workplace, help women.

1104
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 2: And so women can get in a room and go

1105
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 2: rah rah rah rah rah, and then go outside and

1106
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 2: feel empowered. But it doesn't matter really because at work,

1107
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 2: if we don't have men involved in this equation, we

1108
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 2: are not going to move the needle. Right. They have

1109
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 2: to help us, and one way they can help us

1110
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 2: is take away silencing mechanisms. Also pay women fairly and

1111
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 2: also promote them.

1112
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: Well in some ways too. You're not going to get

1113
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: them to necessarily care. You might get them to be

1114
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: proactive just to cover their s and that's fine too.

1115
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: Meaning I had someone, you know, they're not going to

1116
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: give a shit if.

1117
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 2: They have daughters.

1118
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: They might might, it's so abstract to them because they're

1119
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: so powerful. They don't think their daughters are gonna have

1120
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: to deal with it, you know what I'm saying. So,

1121
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: but I just ran into someone who I you know,

1122
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: I can tell you confidentially not on this podcast, that

1123
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: is probably the most powerful person in the entire entertainment industry.

1124
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 1: And they came to me to say, I want to

1125
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: hear about what you're doing, probably partially because they're scared.

1126
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 3: I don't really give a shit.

1127
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: They were like, I want you to talk to my

1128
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: top management, which I did, and you could tell that

1129
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: they were all also partially uncover their ass mode, pretending

1130
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: they've already been doing all these things. But there the

1131
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: wheels were turning, and I was like.

1132
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 3: No, no, no, you're you. You.

1133
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: You would be smart if you got on board because

1134
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,919
Speaker 1: you have exposure, and this train's going with or without you.

1135
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 2: That's the same phrase I use. Really, Oh my god,

1136
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 2: we have so many synergies. I always say to company CEOs.

1137
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: The train has left the station, so get on board

1138
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:21,919
Speaker 2: with the work.

1139
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 3: Get out of the way. You're gonna get hit or

1140
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 3: you're gonna get hit.

1141
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, because there's no going backwards anymore.

1142
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 3: No, it's happening.

1143
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 1: And that's why you have this power because you just

1144
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: know because you lit the match. And I felt that,

1145
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 1: and sometimes I don't even know exactly what I'm working towards,

1146
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: but I know that I'm going in the right direction.

1147
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: So wow, okay, so all right, so tell me you're

1148
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: this is the last question. You're a rose and thorn

1149
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 1: of your career.

1150
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 2: Well, the thorn is obviously my experience at Fox News,

1151
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 2: Uh therapy because of it, Like my therapy has been

1152
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 2: all of my work talking to all the other survivors

1153
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 2: and the work I do every day. I have to

1154
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 2: wake up optimistic every single day.

1155
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 3: But you're not, like now currently traumatized from what happened.

1156
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, okay now, because I'm so embedded in what

1157
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 2: I'm doing, and that's my therapy is like I know

1158
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 2: I'm making the world better.

1159
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: No. And you also, once you get that validation of vindication,

1160
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: it does release something. It probably took a while to

1161
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: get it off of you, but it did.

1162
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,439
Speaker 2: But but I'm going to tell you that my rose

1163
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 2: is also working at Fox News right because it gave

1164
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 2: me the opportunity to transform my life into advocacy that

1165
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 2: I never ever ever thought i'd be doing. It's not

1166
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 2: like you, when you're a successful person like you and

1167
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: I have been, It's not like you aspire to put

1168
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 2: poster child for harassment in the workplace on your resume. No,

1169
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: but I've taken full advantage. And a friend said to

1170
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: me after I came forward seven years ago, she said,

1171
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: you know, something good is going to come from this.

1172
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 2: And at the time I was like, you're full of shit,

1173
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 2: Nothing good is going to come of this. But you

1174
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 2: know what, she was right.

1175
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 3: She was right.

1176
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: And also I always say to people, you don't have

1177
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: to know where you're going to. Just get on the road,

1178
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: get in the car, plan out something, but it probably

1179
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: won't be what you planned. You'll hit a roadbock, you'll

1180
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,959
Speaker 1: run out of gas. Just like get in the goddamn car,

1181
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: and always beforeward moving. It doesn't mean like I'm waiting

1182
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,359
Speaker 1: for life to happen to me. That's not what it means.

1183
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 1: It means like you worked your ass off at Miss America,

1184
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: you worked your ass off at the small market, you

1185
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,359
Speaker 1: worked your ass off at Stanford. You're a work your

1186
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: ass off person. And that's really what I think is

1187
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: the key to anyone's success. Not social media, not a filter,

1188
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: not a cute little tagline, not a reality show. It's

1189
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: working your ass off.

1190
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you have those same characteristics I feel like

1191
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 2: we could finish each other's sentences.

1192
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, Reah, now no, and I'm a track. I was

1193
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 1: talking to Juju Chang from Nightline yesterday about this because

1194
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: I am very attracted and friendly with strong women, but

1195
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 1: interestingly that really have a strong voice in media, like

1196
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: I love Hotecopy, I always have I connect with her.

1197
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 1: I really have a good relationship with Kelly Rippo, with

1198
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 1: Katie Couric, I connected to Gail King, like. I was

1199
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: thinking that a lot of the women, not a lot,

1200
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 1: like ninety nine point nine percent of the women that

1201
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:59,720
Speaker 1: I respect in this industry are in similar have similar

1202
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: back grounds to you, and there's got to be something

1203
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: to it. There has to be a parallel to that

1204
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 1: work ethic and what that.

1205
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: Takes completely in a world. Judge Judy to the to.

1206
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 3: The mix, Yeah do you know her? Yeah? Oh so

1207
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 3: you'll okay, so you can.

1208
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: We'recause I'm going to have a power woman's dinner party

1209
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: here and invite a group and I would die.

1210
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 2: I would plots if Judge Judy comes over. I just

1211
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 2: ran into her in in our town. Oh okay, and uh,

1212
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 2: she's the most lovely person ever. And by the way

1213
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 2: you quoted her, earlier, like she for us beyond, Yeah, beyond.

1214
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 2: So she would.

1215
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 3: She's a tough bitch, she yeah.

1216
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 2: So she would be a great addition to the party.

1217
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 3: I love that.

1218
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: Okay, amazing, that'd be even more interesting. All right, great,

1219
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: so we'll talk about that. Yay, Give me a hug.