1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Rip Current is a production of iHeart Podcasts. The views 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the host, 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: producers or parent company. Listener discretion is it fine? This 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: is a rip Current bonus episode. You don't have to 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: listen to follow the Rip Current storyline, but it provides 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: more information, context, and analysis to enhance the main podcast. Enjoy. 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 2: If you listen to the main podcast, you heard a 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 2: lot from Josh Morcel. Josh is now a private investigator, 9 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: but in two thousand and two and before he was 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 2: a paralegal on the team representing Judy Barry's estate and 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 2: Darryl Churney in the civil rights suit against the FBI 12 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: and Oakland Police Department. I interviewed Josh over two days, 13 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 2: and he was invaluable in helping me understand many of 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: the issues in this case from the environmental perspective, and 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: in giving me in on a number of things, both 16 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 2: in interviews and through follow up emails. In the main podcast, 17 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: we spend a little time on the civil rights trial, 18 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: but I wanted to give listeners a chance to hear 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: more about it. During our interviews, Josh gave a fairly 20 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: detailed account of the trial, Nedda did version of which follows. 21 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: Keep in mind that Josh worked for the plaintiff's team, 22 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 2: so he tells it from that perspective. But I think 23 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: you'll find him measured and a good storyteller. We began 24 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 2: by talking about the legal team representing Darryl and Judy's estate. 25 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: Judy had a big trial team, ten or so people, 26 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: depending on how you count. The three lawyers who a 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: arguing in court were Tony Sarah, Dennis Cunningham, and Robert 28 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: Bloom and Dennis was the lead attorney. He'd been lead 29 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: attorney since very early in the case, since nineteen ninety two, 30 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: and Dennis and TONI are a great pair there. Dennis 31 00:01:55,320 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: is like a humble, understated, saintly ascetic people's lawyer whose 32 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: power is in his sincerity. All these lawyers, all these guys, Tony, 33 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: Dennis and Bob, have made a specialty in representing revolutionaries 34 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: in a sense, among other things they focused on. And Dennis, really, 35 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: with his sincerity, in his sense of credibility and understatement, 36 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: is good at taking these outrageously radical clients of his. 37 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: I mean, like the weather undergrounds, like leading black panthers 38 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: and conveying them to the jury in a way that 39 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: makes them seem sympathetic and reasonable and noble. You know, 40 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: even if the jury might still disagree with them on things, 41 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: they seem like, you know, rational people. Tony is the dramatist. 42 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: You know, one prosecutor who went up against him said, 43 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: at one point Tony uses his voice like a musical instrument, 44 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: and he really does. He actually pitches it differently, I think, 45 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: but he really uses dynamic range a lot. You know, 46 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: within a two minute period, he'll be booming and thunder 47 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: egg and hurling underbolts, and then he'll be whispering. Listen, Jerry, 48 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: listen to this. You know it's and he could be cartoonish, 49 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: almost goofy sometimes, but people are mesmerized and they remember 50 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: what comes out of him. And then Bob Bloom, you know, 51 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: Dennis is this ascetic, almost gaunt, thin bird of a man, 52 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,119 Speaker 1: and Bob Bloom is kind of hefty, and he's got 53 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: this like hefty presence also, and he's kind of angry. 54 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: He's like a tough tack dog. And Bob is really good. 55 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: It's showing that cops lie and intimidating cops on the stand, 56 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: and he grabs on and he asks them the question 57 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: over and over and over again until he shows that 58 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: they're lying. And those are the three specialties of those 59 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: lawyers and the roles they played. The trial was six 60 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: weeks long, with two plaintiffs, nine defendants, forty one witnesses, 61 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: and additional video footage that was shown. Something I realized 62 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: pretty quickly as I started writing about this story is 63 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: I think I had this naive idea going in that 64 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: a trial would naturally lend itself to, you know, a 65 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: dramatic framing, but doesn't really you know, that cover all 66 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: kinds of topics with all these different witnesses, and you 67 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: jump all over the place, and you have to have 68 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: a big attention for detail to keep track of how 69 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: everything relates. But let's not let that stop us. It's 70 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: a key moments in the trial. First one I'd come 71 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: up with happened before the trial, but it was an 72 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: important part of the context. The trial was originally scheduled 73 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: to begin in October of two thousand and one. You 74 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: may recall that the September eleven attacks happened right before that, 75 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: and the September eleven attacks a major attack on the 76 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: United States by terrorists. This case, Judy's a lawsuit is 77 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:54,239 Speaker 1: essentially about overreach and bad behavior by counter terrorism agents. 78 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: So you know, this is at a time when the 79 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: country gets launched into this intense emotion debate about how 80 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: to balance civil liberties with counter terrorism, and it was 81 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: a sensitive time to bring a case to trial that 82 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: argues that counter terrorism agents did wrong. And the judge 83 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: saw that, and the judge then delayed the trial by 84 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: six months, and so we ended up starting the trial 85 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: in April, at the beginning of April two thousand and two. 86 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: And when trial began, there were of course still heightened 87 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,799 Speaker 1: security measures at the courthouse as a result of September eleventh, 88 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: and it took a long time to get in, and 89 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: there were large crowds for this trial. The courtroom was 90 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: packed for much of the trial with supporters of Judy 91 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: and Daryl, some of whom were from the Bay Area, 92 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: many of whom had driven hours from Mendesineo and Humble 93 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: Counties to attend. So there were a lot of people 94 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: who had to get in through the slow security line. 95 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: But this was in everybody's mind through the trial, this 96 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: issue that it's felt like the subject matter of the 97 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: trial was directly relevant to a debate that was in 98 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: the headlines every day at that point about how to 99 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: fight terrorism. There was a vase of flowers on the 100 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: table every day that supporters were bringing. The lawyers on 101 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: Judy's team had put flowers in their lapel. The lawyers 102 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: in Judy's team, as People's lawyers, were lawyers who lived simply. 103 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: They had ill fitting suits from thrift stores. They were 104 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: critics of consumer culture, of luxury culture. They wore floorid 105 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: ties that I think were partly, you know, a way 106 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: of showing they don't take all this stuff so seriously 107 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: on some level that the trappings of conventional culture. The 108 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: other team, there were two other sets of defendants, the 109 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: FBI defendants and the Oakland Police defendants. They were not 110 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: the same team. Those two, of course, their lawyers were, 111 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: you know, dressed more conventionally. We get to opening statements. 112 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: Dennis Cunningham delivers the opening statement for the plaintiffs, Judy 113 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: and Darryl, and Judy's team believed that in fact, Earth 114 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: First and Judy Barry had been a target of a 115 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: Cohen telpro like campaign by the FBI, and they had 116 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: tried to bring that into the lawsuit, and the judge 117 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: had severely restricted their ability to discuss it. One of 118 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: the major ways that Judy's team tried to bring it 119 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: into the lawsuit was by making Richard W. Held a defendant. 120 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: They also were hoping since he had a documented history 121 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: of involvement in Cohen Telpro, they could question him about 122 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: his past history to show he had a history and 123 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: a mindset of repressive types of activities that were not 124 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: strictly focused on investigating crimes, and they could draw that 125 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: out in trial. But the judge had dismissed Held as 126 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: a defendant, which is very disappointing to Judy personally and 127 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: to her team, and they fought to get him back 128 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: and they didn't succeed. So at the time the trial started, 129 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: the judge said they couldn't even call Richard Held as 130 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: a witness, and the judge said Judy's team was not 131 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: allowed to mention they couldn't tell the jury that Cohen 132 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: Telpro had ever existed. They couldn't say anything about it 133 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: unless the defendants brought it up first. So as we 134 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: entered trial, a key aspect of the plaintiff's theory of 135 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: the case was suppressed. From view, there's a rule that 136 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: was suppressing it, and of course Judy's team was going 137 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: to be watching for any opportunity, any moment the other 138 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: side would open the door that could bring us in. 139 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: I say all that because then we get to the 140 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: opening statements where Dennis Cunningham lays out the essential theory 141 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: of the case, which is that the moment the bomb 142 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: explodes in Judy's car as she's driving through Oakland, California, 143 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: on May twenty fourth, nineteen ninety, the FBI at that 144 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: time had a pre existing desire already to neutralize Earth First, 145 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: to disrupt its political work, to smear it in the 146 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: public mind. FBI agents immediately recognized the bombing was, as 147 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: Dennis said, a golden opportunity to further this pre existing 148 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: desire to damage Earth First, and they pounced on the 149 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: opportunity to read into the tea leaves of the evidence 150 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: a way to make it look like the bomb belonged 151 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: to Judy, to paint her as a terrorist, to discredit 152 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: her and the environmental movement that she represented. That in 153 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: a nutshell is Dennis's opening argument. Now, after Dennis completed 154 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: his opening argument, Joe Chaer, the lawyer for the FBI 155 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: for the Justice Department, he gave his argument, which was basically, 156 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: the defendants were dedicated FBI agents who were trying to 157 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: protect the country from terrorism. They did their job. They 158 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: had some knowledge of earth First's prior activities and they 159 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: shared it with the police, and that was appropriate. Was 160 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: there responsibility? Then Maria b the lawyer for the Oakland 161 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: Police defendants, she gets up and she gives her opening statement, 162 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: which was interesting because she says, the Oakland Police, you'll see, 163 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: made decisions that were reasonable based on the information they 164 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: had at the time, and then she goes on to say, 165 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: and they got most of that information from the FBI. 166 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: So right there, Oakland opens a wedge between them and 167 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: the FBI where they're kind of saying if you read 168 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: between the lines, or saying, so, look, the Oakland defendis 169 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong. They were behaving reasonably based on 170 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: the information they had. If any of that information was wrong, 171 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: it's the FBI's fault. And then a nuanced question is 172 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: to what degree, you know, do we consider the Oakland 173 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: police to have actually been complicit if we assume that, 174 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: in fact, the plaintiffs our case that the response to 175 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: the bombing by law enforcement was an effort to neutralize 176 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: and Judy and Earth first broadly with the Oakland Police, 177 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: were they knowing partners in that conspiracy or were they 178 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: kind of unwitting dupes of the FBI? You know? And 179 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: I think that the jury found and I would agree 180 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: that the evidence shows that actually, you have to say 181 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: the Oakland Police defendants should have known better that we 182 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: have to hold them responsible for their part in the conspiracy. 183 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: But they were definitely making the argument and trial that 184 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: I guess that they were unwitting dupes. Really Judy on 185 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: the day she was bombed, she was officially the investigating 186 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: agency was the Oakland Police. They were the ones who 187 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: just officially made the decision to arrest her. False arrest 188 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: was one of the key claims of the lawsuit. The 189 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: defendants from the Olican Police were Lieutenant Mike Simms. He 190 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: was commander of the Homicide Section. The homicide section was 191 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: responsible for investigating a bombing like this apparently, so he 192 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: was the one who was really in charge of supervising 193 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: the Oakland investmenttgation of the case. And then his lead 194 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: investigator was Sergeant Michael Siderud, who was a detective in 195 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: the homicide section. And then Siderout's partner, Robert Channel, also 196 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: played key role. So Lieutenant Simms and Sergeants Siderude and 197 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: Chennault were the three defendants from the Oakland Police Department. 198 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: Now basically a number of agents from the San Francisco 199 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: Terrorist Squad of the FBI showed up at the scene 200 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: of the bombing and more or less advised the police, 201 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: and they lent a hand through the whole investigation. They 202 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: advised the police on the day of the bombing, They 203 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: helped collect the evidence, They directed the collection of the evidence. 204 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: They briefed the police on what they knew about Earth 205 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: first and Judy and Darryl, and then they made the 206 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: FBI lab available to the police for examining the physical evidence. 207 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: And then later on in the case, FBI agents also 208 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: conducted their own investigation in the field. But the FBI 209 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: defendants were so not Richard held and this was very 210 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: much in the consciousness of the plaintiffs, as he should 211 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: be a defendant, they thought. But the highest ranking agent 212 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: who was a defendant was John Reikes, who was the 213 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: supervisor of the counter Terrorist Squad or Squad thirteen as 214 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: it was also known. And then Frank Doyle, who was 215 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: reiss Field specialist for bombs. You know, so when a 216 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: bomb explodes out in the wilderness or you know, out 217 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: in the city, Doyle's the one he sends, or one 218 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: of the guys he can send to go and collect 219 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: the evidence and interpret what he sees at the scene. 220 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 1: And then the other agents were Phil Senna, Stockton Buck, 221 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: Walter Hemg and John Conway. I think that's all of them. 222 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: This is a vast story with many facets, I said, 223 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 1: difficult to condense. I think one way it makes sense 224 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: to slice it up, to focus on keep elements of 225 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: the trial, focus on what the plaintiffs called what Dennis 226 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: Cunningham said in his opening statement were the four big 227 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: lies that law enforcement told in trying to build a 228 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: case against Judy and Daryl. And it was the plaintiff's 229 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: goal to dismantle those lies, to show that they were lies. 230 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: They had to. Lie number one had to do with 231 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: the location of the bomb in the car. Number two 232 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: had to do with a supposed bag of nails found 233 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: in the car that were allegedly identical to nails from 234 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: the bomb. Lie number three had to do with this 235 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: alleged informant tip that supposedly predicted that Judy and Darrel 236 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: would be carrying a bomb through Oakland to Santa Cruz 237 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: around the time that the bomb exploded. And line number 238 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: four was that Judy and Daryl were known to be 239 00:14:54,760 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: violent terrorists. So start with big line number one, the 240 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: location of the bomb. 241 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: We covered this pretty thoroughly in the main podcast. The 242 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 2: lie that Josh talks about is Frank Doyle's contention that 243 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 2: the bomb was placed on the back seat of Judy's car, 244 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 2: where it would have been easily seen. This determination was 245 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 2: used to claim that Judy must have known the bomb 246 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 2: was in the car. In reality, the evidence pointed to 247 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 2: it being almost surely underneath the driver's seat, right beneath 248 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 2: Judy when it detonated. In this case, there is no 249 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 2: reason to believe that she knew it was in the car. 250 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: Onto Big line number two, the identical bag of nails. 251 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: Again, we covered this in the main podcast. The FBI 252 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 2: initially claimed that it could match the nails attached to 253 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: the pipe bomb to nails that Judy possessed at her home. 254 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 2: The idea is that each batch of nails has unique 255 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: markings from the manufacturing process can be matched to the 256 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 2: other nails from the same batch. That is not true, 257 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 2: and even if true, the number of nails in each 258 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 2: batch is so large that would be very possible for 259 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 2: both the bomber and Judy to have nails from the 260 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: same batch by sheer coincidence. The next of what Josh 261 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 2: calls the big lies is one that we didn't cover 262 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 2: in much depth in the podcast, and that is the 263 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 2: claim by the FBI that they had received a tip 264 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 2: from an informant that quote, heavy hitters were coming down 265 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: to Santa Cruz from the north. 266 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: So Reich's is telling headquarters, he's explaining why charges weren't 267 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: brought against Judy and Daryl. He's saying, we had an 268 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: informant who indicated prior to the Oakland bombing that quote, 269 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: heavy hitters from up north, possibly associated with the organization 270 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: called Earth First, were coming to Santa Cruz, California to 271 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: be involved in some type of an action involving a bomb. 272 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: Oh you know, okay, that's pretty specific. If it's true, 273 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: you might think maybe it wasn't so crazy that they 274 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: suspected Judy and Daryl of carrying this bomb. So then 275 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: Judy's steam, Judy and Darryl's steam, They're like, well, let's 276 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: learn more about this informative. What's this story with that? 277 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: They go looking through the file and they can't find it. 278 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: Finally they find it. They find one transcription of a 279 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: tip that has a term heavy hitters in it. It 280 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: stated in May eighteen, nineteen ninety, which is one week 281 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: before the bomb and Judy's car. It says that a 282 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: woman a confidential source, she's not called an informant. Informant 283 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: is a source who has been vetted for reliability. A 284 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: confidential source can just be anybody who's a source who's 285 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: been promised confidentiality. A female confidential source had told him quote. 286 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: Last week, a few heavy hitter activists came to Santa 287 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: Cruz from Canada and the Western United States. They stayed 288 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: a few days, then left to return at the end 289 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: of May for a major action. That's the only place 290 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: in the whole file where they find mention of heavy 291 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: hitters prior to the bombing, to support the notion that 292 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: there's a tip about heavy hitters. But it didn't mention 293 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: a bomb. It didn't say earth first instead of saying 294 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: up north, you know, up north might have been a 295 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: way to describe Judy and Darryl. They lived up in 296 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: Mendesine known Humble Counties, which is north of Santa Cruz. 297 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: They might have driven down from up north. Say they're 298 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: coming from Canada and the Western United States as a 299 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: way to describe these two who are coming from just 300 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: up north. It's kind of an overly broad thing to 301 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: say this is a broad tip. It's not specific to 302 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: Judy and Daryl. So easy enough in trials to demonstrate 303 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: that the tip itself was what it was, you know, 304 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: was vague and broad, non specific. And there's a question 305 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: of well, how is it represented to the police by 306 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: FBI agents on that day? And Tony Sarah gets Phil 307 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: Senna on the stand. Tony's wearing his suit that doesn't 308 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: quite fit, a little too small problem, little tight. Senna 309 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: wears a well fitting suit. Senna has this he's kind 310 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: of haughty in not that he's a haughty, at least 311 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: he comes off as arrogant. But Tony is dramatic and 312 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: Senna is imperious. And Tony starts asking him about the tip, 313 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 1: and Tony Sarah, he says, you know you've testified. The 314 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: informant told you words to the effect that heavy hitters 315 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: from Earth first were expected in Santa Cruz to be 316 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,959 Speaker 1: involved in some kind of action connected to a bomb. 317 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: Senna says, well, there was no mention of Earth First, 318 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: So now that contradicts John Reis's memo. Make of it 319 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: what you will, Senna is pretty consistent actually by the way, 320 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: that Earth First was not They were not suspects in 321 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: his Earth Night Action Group investigation. He did not think 322 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: Earth Firsters were involved. 323 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 2: This was the downing of power lines in Santa Cruz 324 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 2: the day before Earth First hung a banner on the 325 00:19:59,160 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 2: Golden Gape Ray. 326 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: He did not think Judy and Daryl were involved. That's 327 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: an aside to keep in mind. As you know, we 328 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: hear that actually FBI agents are telling the police that 329 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: Judy and Daryl are tied to in terrorism investigation in 330 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: Santa Cruz and maybe are even suspects there. The case 331 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: agent says they were not. So he clarifies, No, the 332 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: tip didn't say Earth First specifically. Tony Sarah says, well, 333 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: did the informant tell you that heavy hitters would be 334 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: coming from the north From the north, yes, Senna says, 335 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: did the informant tell you the heavy hitters were going 336 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: to be involved in some kind of action connected to 337 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: a bomb. There was reference to the possibility of a bomb, Yes, 338 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: Senna affirms. Tony picks up Sena's May eighteen, nineteen ninety report, 339 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 1: which is the only transcription from before the bombing of 340 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: the actual tip, and he reads it. He says, last 341 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: week a few heavy hitter activists came to Santa Cruz 342 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: from Canada and the Western United States. They stayed a 343 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: few days, then left to return to the end of 344 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: May for a major action. Tony Sarah says, when you 345 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: tell Testified that the information you got was they came 346 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: from up north, that they were coming to do something 347 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: with a bomb, you perjured yourself, didn't you. And Tony 348 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 1: asks you accept that the action that was predicted could 349 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: be anything. It could be dancing on the street, and 350 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: Senna says, absolutely, it could be dancing on the street. 351 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: We don't know what an action is. So you took 352 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: the heavy hitters tip mentioning people from Canada on the 353 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: Western United States coming for an action, and you transmuted 354 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 1: it into a tip predicting Earth first to bring a 355 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: bomb to Santa Cruz. Sena's like, well, what was written 356 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: down has nothing to do with the totality of the information. 357 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: That I had. Tony says, why didn't you put it 358 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: into your report that the tip said there was going 359 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: to be a bomb? Wasn't that the most concerning aspect 360 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: of the tip? Tony says, there there wasn't it a 361 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: fact there was no bomb aspect to this tip. You 362 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: exaggerated it to get you to arrest it. And now 363 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: to dig yourself out of that hole, you're claiming there 364 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: was a bomb in Senna's like, that's not true. It 365 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: doesn't really satisfactorily explain. Tony says, you poison this investigation 366 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: with false information, didn't you? And Senna doesn't really have 367 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: a satisfactory answer. So that's big line number three. The tip, 368 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: it appears, was distorted to make it seem more specifically 369 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: predictive of Judy and Daryl coming with the bomb. Now 370 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: the fourth big lie that Judy and Daryl were terrorists 371 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 1: known for violence. There is a trickier one. There's some 372 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: nuance to it. Earth Firsters as a group, they had 373 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: an absolute commitment to not harm life, and part of 374 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: the legend of earth First though from the beginning, involved 375 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: the practice of eco sabotage of property damage, essentially to 376 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: protect the environment. You know a funny thing. The Oakland 377 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: defendants were pretty consistent through the trial in saying part 378 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: of the reason we arrested Julian Darryl is that the 379 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: I told us these guys are known to be terrorists 380 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: or the type of people who would carry bombs. FBI 381 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: agents kept denying that. FBI agents then in testimony be like, no, 382 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: we didn't characterize Earth First as a terrorist group, gating 383 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,479 Speaker 1: Darrel weren't suspects in the Arizona and Santa Cruz cases. 384 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: But then the defense strategy clearly involved throughout the whole 385 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: case trying to point out anytime that anybody on Earth 386 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: First could be somehow associated with sabotage. Over and over again, 387 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: this comes up, and when it's time for Daryl to testify, 388 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: Daryl's pretty nervous. He goes to a hot spring the 389 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: weekend before to kind of like really center himself and 390 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: get really calm. Shows up to testify, and you know, 391 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: the FBI lawyer gets up there and starts questioning him, 392 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: and it's just confronting Darryl with everything Daryl's ever said 393 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: that celebrates sabotage, and basically, you know what Daryl says, 394 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: it is like sabotage was not part of our program. 395 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: We didn't sabotage. It wasn't our strategy. We didn't do it. 396 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: He's like when I wrote a song celebrating it, or 397 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: when I had an album cover and when I musical 398 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: albums that showed, you know, a beaver toppling a telephone 399 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: pole with its teeth, it's theater, it's art. I'm trying 400 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: to shock people into awareness about the plight of the 401 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: earth and how violent, you know, industrial practices are, and 402 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, this is a tough case for Daryl to make. 403 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: And then there's kind of a comical moment which is 404 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: possibly a low point in the plaintiff's perspective in the case, 405 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: where Joe Chaer, the FBI lawyer, has asked Darryl about 406 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: a series of awkward things, and Dennis Cunningham thinks, well, okay, 407 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: let's show the jury and example, let's have Daryl sing 408 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: one of his songs and they could sort of see 409 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: the humorous spirit in which he writes these songs and 410 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,479 Speaker 1: maybe it'll take some of the sting out of this. 411 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: So Dennis gets up and he's like, Daryl, like, let's 412 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: let's sing one of your songs. Joe share Ob Jacks. 413 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: She's like, oh, this isn't relevant unless Daryl sings one 414 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 1: of the songs I asked him about. I mean, I 415 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: remember it dawning on me in that moment, like, uh oh, 416 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: this might not be so good. And so there's a 417 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: few songs about tree spiking that Daryl had sung, and 418 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: Darreld gets to choose, and these are ones that Cher 419 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: had asked him about. So Darryl chooses spike a tree 420 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: for Jesus the judge just like, you don't have to 421 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: sing the whole thing, Daryl, just like sing a sample. 422 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: Daryl sings the whole thing. And you look at the 423 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: jury and mostly they didn't look amused. This one juror 424 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: is wearing a pink camouflage dress. Her name is Mary Nunn, 425 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: and she ended up, you know, being a real supporter 426 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: of the plaintiffs in the end, but she was kind 427 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 1: of grinning other plays like kind of horrified. Anyway, So 428 00:25:53,760 --> 00:26:00,719 Speaker 1: we all super cringed Darryl saying it. Daryl felt awful afterward. 429 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: This is a theme through this whole story, something that 430 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: became Judy really focused on as she matured in her 431 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: political thought, you know, as an experience, and partly due 432 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: to experience at the bombing is it was really important 433 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: to say what you mean and not say things you 434 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: don't mean. But of course part of the problem with 435 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: eco sabotage is that it sucks up all the oxygen 436 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: in the room and takes over the conversation. Right, The 437 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: more important substantive part of Darryl's testimony really was about 438 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: the substantive work of Earth First, what they were actually doing. 439 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: Daryl explained his trees by King songs as basically a 440 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: way to vent around the campfire in the middle of 441 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 1: an actually nonviolent campaign that had nothing to do with sabotage. 442 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: You know, people have strong feelings, they have anger, they 443 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: have frustration about how we're losing life as we know 444 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: it on our planet. And one event is by singing 445 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: these songs around the campfire. The substantive work he discussed, 446 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: the real core of what Earth First's work in the 447 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: Redwoods was about was the campaign against maxim, the campaign 448 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: against liquidation logging by Louisiana Pacific, the year's long effort 449 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: by earth First to protect the ancient redwoods of Headwater's forest. 450 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: People sitting in the road to block logging, people climbing 451 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: trees and sitting in trees to prevent them from being 452 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: cut down public protests. At the Board of Forestry, environmentalists 453 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: and loggers sitting down for coffee and discussing ways they 454 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: actually had common ground. Darryl talked about his and Judy's 455 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: launch of Redwood Summer, the Redwood Summer campaign. 456 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: Judy, of course, had died well before the trial began, 457 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 2: but as she neared the end of her life, she 458 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 2: gave a deposition on video. You've heard some portions of 459 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 2: this deposition during the main podcast. The video deposition played 460 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 2: during the trial. 461 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: Judy, I think was very compelling and sympathetic. So it 462 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: was one month before she died they shot this video 463 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: of her deposition. They took her deposition. I think they 464 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: rushed it. They wouldn't, you know, had she been healthy. 465 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: I don't think they would have. They would have waited 466 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 1: longer to take her deposition. But they're like, she's gonna die, 467 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: we better get this done. You know, she had cancer. 468 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: It was not predicted she would live long. So in 469 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: the deposition, she's lying down, her head is on a 470 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 1: green pillow. She looks quite ill, but she's still totally 471 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: lucid and she speaks very well, so we showed excerpts 472 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: of that in trial. You know, I had originally been 473 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: hired as a videographer, so I and Alicia Bails, who 474 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: was paralegal on the case and had really been Judy's 475 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: protege and had done a lot of really important work 476 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: on the case. After Judy died, Alicia and I edited 477 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: Judy's deposition down for showing the jury during her deposition, 478 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: it was interesting. Dennis Cunningham questioned her at length, and 479 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: Judy told the whole story, but through it, the strategy 480 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: of the defense seemed to be that to interrupt her 481 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: and exhaust her. The Justice Department lawyer Joe Cher wouldn't 482 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: let her finish a sentence. Objected, objected, objected, sometimes legit objections, 483 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: sometimes questionable objections, interrupting her, breaking up her train of thought, 484 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: exhausting this woman who's on her deathbed. So part of 485 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: the challenge of editing her deposition was just cut out 486 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: all the interruptions. The edits were decided upon in consultation 487 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: with the other side, and the judge approved them, so 488 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: there was a fair process to decide what was shown. 489 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: So we literally just didn't make it so you could 490 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: hear and understand what she was saying outside of all 491 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: the objections and interruptions. We had to kind of cut 492 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: out the objections and kind of smooth the sentences over 493 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: with little fades of sound. And then at the end 494 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: of Dennis questioning her, it was time for the defendants 495 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: to question her. There were no questions for the federal defendants, 496 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: no questions for the Oakland defendants. Didn't have a single 497 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: question for this woman that they, you know, claimed they 498 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: suspected of being a bomber in this case. They didn't 499 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: ask her any questions. I think it's because they knew 500 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: she was innocent, and they knew she was eloquent, and 501 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: they thought anything she said wasn't going to help the 502 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: defense of their clients. 503 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 2: I asked Josh about Judy's team's reaction to the treatment 504 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 2: Judy received from the defense lawyers. 505 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: Judy's team actually like the lawyers were mad, and it 506 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: was kind of surprising because actually Judy's team had a 507 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: pretty good relationship with the FBI lawyers through the case. 508 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: Joe Cherer had been kind of gentlemanly, you know, apparently 509 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: through the case, but he played hardball, you know, during 510 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: her deposition, and you know, took the risk that it 511 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: was going to look bad if he interrupted her constantly. 512 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: So something that stands out from the excerpts that we 513 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: played of Judy's deputy position is one she discussed the 514 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: impact of the bombing on her work. She said, the 515 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: bombing completely distorted what we were trying to say. The 516 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: question are these people terrorists? Became the focus rather than 517 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: the cutting of the Redwoods. It took up our whole 518 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: legal team and our key organizers in trying to defend 519 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: Daryl and me to organize support for me in the hospital, 520 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: to help us with the legal work. It made me 521 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: feel this was an act of political sabotage against Redwood's 522 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: summer as much as anything aimed at me or Daryl. 523 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: And she said, there's a bomber out there, and it's 524 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: not just that nobody found him, it's that nobody in 525 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: law enforcement has ever looked. All this time was spent 526 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: trying to find out where I live and collecting phone 527 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: numbers of Earth Firsters, and he's still out there and 528 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: probably in my community. 529 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 2: We then moved on to the closing arguments. 530 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: Quick summary of some highlights from the closing arguments. Tony Sarah, 531 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: Bob Bloom, and Dennis Cunningham delivered a closing argument for 532 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: the plaintiffs. Tony started and was very dramatic. Starts off 533 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: hurling a thunderbolt across the room, pointing at the defendants, shouts, 534 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: Squad thirteen is the KGB of the FBI. This is 535 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: what you call a frame up. Get these two so 536 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: we can disfigure, dismantle, neutralize Earth First and the movement 537 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: to save the Redwoods. It was a conspiracy concocted by 538 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: people who are above the law in their own opinion. 539 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: He said, we cannot tolerate this in a free, constitutional society. 540 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: Bob Bloom's closing arguments basically went point by point through 541 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: the evidence, showing lie after lie by the defendants. Then 542 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: Dennis Cunningham spoke about how Judy put her life into 543 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: protecting the habitat we all share. He described Redwood Summer 544 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: as a moment of great promise. The bombing stole the 545 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: attention of the campaign's leadership. The bombing was used to 546 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: discredit Forests Forever, and then the initiative was narrowly defeated. 547 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: Judy spent the remaining seven years of her life preoccupied 548 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: with trying to clear her name. People encountering Darrel on 549 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: the streets still regarded him as a bomber and terrorist. 550 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: Dennis asked, what if it happened to you or your kid? 551 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: He asked the jury to make a headline here that 552 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: wipes out those other headlines that called Judy and Daryl terrorists. 553 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: Finally vindicate them, he said. Joe Cher, the FBI lawyer, 554 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: he asked, why wouldn't investigators legitimately wonder if there were 555 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: possible ties to earlier incidents involving Earth First, Maria b 556 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: the police lawyer, She said, maybe the police shouldn't have 557 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: relied so heavily on the FBI, but that doesn't matter. 558 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: Negligence is not enough to find they violated someone's constitutional rights. 559 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,479 Speaker 1: So Maria be kind of acknowledged that her lines were 560 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: negligent and the FBI violated Judy and Daryl's rights. Finally, 561 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: the other highlight from the jury that I would bring 562 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: up is just the verdict, you know how it all 563 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: came out. At the close of testimony, Judge Claudia Wilkin 564 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: dismissed the FBI agents John Conway and Walter hemg as defendants. 565 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: She ruled that the plaintiffs had not demonstrated that Conway 566 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,879 Speaker 1: and Hemg broke the law, and so the jury would 567 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,439 Speaker 1: have no legal basis to find against them. Of course, 568 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 1: the plaintiffs disagreed with that decision, but that was her decision. 569 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: Then we waded through the seventeen days of jury deliberations, 570 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 1: and then we got the call that a verdict had arrived. 571 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: So Alicia, Judy's protege, and Star are paralegal on the case. 572 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,959 Speaker 1: She's carrying Judy's ashes to the courtroom, and we all 573 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,720 Speaker 1: filed in and sat down, trying to remember to breeze 574 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: as we waited. And then the jury for women starts 575 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: reading the verdict form and it's liable, liable, liable, liable 576 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 1: for count after count. 577 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 2: The jury cleared one of the defendants, an FBI agent 578 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 2: named Stockton Buck, of all charges. 579 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: That was one, of course we disagreed with as well. 580 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: But the other six defendants had violated the first and 581 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: fourth amendments of the Constitution. Interestingly, they were undecided as 582 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: to whether Darrel had been wrongfully arrested, but they did 583 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: find that the defendants were wrong to search his house. 584 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the logic on that was. I 585 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: think maybe it might have been a compromise among the 586 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 1: jurors as opposed to like a logical thing they thought 587 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: made sense. But eighty percent of the monetary damages were 588 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: for violations of the First Amendment, which protects political speech 589 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: and assembly, and we took that to affirm our claim 590 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: that the false arrest and the false charges were a 591 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: form of political sabotage meant to disrupt Judy and Darrell's 592 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: constitutionally protected speech. The jury awarded the or attributed the 593 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: most fault via the largest monetary liability to three of 594 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: the defendants, to John Reike's, the supervisor of the terrorist squad, 595 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: to Frank Doyle, the FBI's field specialist for bombs, and 596 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,919 Speaker 1: to Lieutenant Mike Simms, who ran the case for the 597 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: Oakland Police. And the jury awarded four point four million 598 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: dollars in damages. 599 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 2: Thank you to Josh Morsel for talking with me. I'm 600 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 2: Toby Ball. This has been a bonus episode for the 601 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 2: second season of Rip Current