1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Quick question, not just for 4 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: our super producers Casey Pegram and our super producer Max Williams, 5 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: but a question for all our fellow Ridiculous Historians. What's 6 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: the weirdest thing you've done to avoid interacting with people? Hi? 7 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: I'm Ben, and I gotta tell you no, I've I've 8 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: gone to some cartoonist lengths, the greatest lengths to avoid 9 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: social inter action. You say, yeah, how weird have you 10 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: gotten with it? Well? Ben, Uh, and it's mean all 11 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: by the way, Well you know, the pandemic. I think 12 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: probably put us all on that boat in many ways. 13 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: And it really just involved not leaving the house. I 14 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: was just saying to to you and super producer Max 15 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: Williams off air, how I've started kind of easy my 16 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: way back to going into the office a couple of 17 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: days a week to record, and it has done wonders 18 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: for my mental state. I'm a people person, Ben, I 19 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: don't I like I like being around people. I don't 20 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: typically avoid uh, social interactions if if I can help it, 21 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: How about you? Yeah, I had a great time during 22 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: the pandemic because I was going to the office. I 23 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: loved it when no one else was there. And now 24 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, my Fortress of Solitude has gone shout out 25 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: to any DC fans you get that reference, and it's 26 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: it can be kind of it can be kind of disappointing. 27 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: You know. I mentioned this often on another show Stuff 28 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. But one thing that 29 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: always baffles me about the human species is how quickly 30 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: things become normal. Uh, maybe the weirdest thing I did 31 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: because alone time and hopefully I'm not alone in this 32 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: alone time is incredibly important to me. I think it's 33 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: a resource that modern society often sort of avoids or 34 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: attempts to disincentivize. We're taught now that we have to 35 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: always be available, that one must always be plugged in, 36 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: or that you always have to be somehow online, somehow 37 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: participating in society, and that's simply not the case. It's 38 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: it's a really weird thing to do. And that's why 39 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: I have the back of the fifth Duke of Portland's 40 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: William John Cavendish dash Scott dash Bent. Such a duke 41 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 1: ly name, I gotta say, but we're gonna refer to 42 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: him occasionally in shorthand as the Underground Duke, which also 43 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: sounds like it could be the name of a really 44 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: cool like new wave or possibly early nineties uh you 45 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: know e d M type band. But I gotta just 46 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: double back with you really quickly. Been I think this 47 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: expectation that society has of always being on in quote 48 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: unquote participating in all of this stuff, it's not even participatory. 49 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: It's really just kind of a weird invisible leash that 50 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: we're all expected to wear and like be you know, 51 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: subjected to. Most of it's not even functional, are useful. 52 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: It's really just this kind of like um, you know, 53 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: burdens albatross for a lot of us. And you're right, Ben, 54 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: the Underground Duke um personifies this. We need to take 55 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: a lesson from the fifth Duke of Portland's I'm gonna 56 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: give it my best, John Kevin just Scott Bentink. Bentink 57 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: what a great name. Yeah, I I went Wold Bentink. 58 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: But because all the male children and his family were 59 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: named William, uh, this guy was usually called John and 60 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: and throughout the episode, we're probably gonna call him a 61 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: bunch of different things, but yeah, like those close to 62 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: him would would call him John and um he uh he. 63 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: Essentially it never wanted any of this. Um. He never 64 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: wanted to be a public figure. He never wanted to 65 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: be in in politics or in the ruling class. He 66 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: literally did not want to be a duke. He didn't, no, 67 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: not at all. In fact, it was supposed to go 68 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: the honor, I guess or the the what do you 69 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: call that? The position I was supposed to go to 70 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: his older brother who died unfortunately very young. And then 71 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: their father, who was the fourth Duke of Portland, also 72 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: died in eighteen fifty four, and that's when William John 73 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: Um became this unlikely and uh, you know, reluctant duke. 74 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: A couple of great sources we dug into for this episode. 75 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: An Atlas Obscure article, The Duke who loved tunnels so 76 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: much he was immortalized as a literary badger, Vintage News, 77 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: Gordon Blaski, the eccentric Duke who adored missanthropy. I am 78 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: not going to finish the headline because it has him spoilers. Uh. 79 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: Shout out as well to Nottinghamshire history. Uh. This comes 80 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: from the Portland's peerage Romance by Charles j Archard. Right, 81 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 1: we've also got Elizabeth London writing for History Things in 82 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: an article entitled Histories Nutcases. The Prince of Silence also 83 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: a pretty epically cool nickname. Then we have one from 84 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: OMG facts dot com how an introverted duke pimped out 85 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: his house to avoid humans. So why don't we get 86 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: into the early days of William John Cavendish Scott Bentinck. 87 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: So there were a few things the duke did like though, 88 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: right we said he didn't want to be duke. He 89 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: kind of due to the tricky laws of what's called primogeniture. 90 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: His life didn't go the way he had planned. He 91 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: didn't really like talking to people, but he did like 92 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: some things. He liked watching horse races, he liked gardening, 93 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: and he was super into digging tunnels, like cartoonishly a 94 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: million percent into digging tunnels around his huge compounds. You know, 95 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: we're calling a state if you want to be classy 96 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: about it, if you will, sure, yes, Yeah. The seat 97 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: of his land he was located in an area of 98 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: the Midlands which is called the Dukeries. Yeah, and we'll 99 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: get into his life in depth. You know, spoiler alert. 100 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: I guess we should say the spoiler alert. Well, uh, 101 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: this guy was so done with social expectations that he 102 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: like he went. He literally went underground to avoid having 103 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: to hang with people he did. I think I threw 104 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: a little too early to his his youth, but there's 105 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the things that lead to his eccentricities 106 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: and these badger like labyrinthine tunnels that he dug I 107 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: think happened in his youth. In his early days, he 108 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: is he was jilted by the love of his life, 109 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: at least in his mind. The love of his life 110 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: didn't seem like she reciprocated those feelings. But he was 111 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: in fact born William John Kavanish Scott Bentinck on September 112 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: dred in London. His mother was Henrietta Scott and his 113 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: father was It was Senior William Bentinck. He was the 114 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: fourth Duke of Portland, as we mentioned, and was very 115 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: much entrenched in politics. Uh, something that the young William 116 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: would look at as being pretty dull and not up 117 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: his street at all. The protagonist of our story, we'll 118 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: call him the young William, or the underground Duke. Um 119 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: was the second of nine children. He received his baptism 120 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: at St. George's Church in Hannover Square on September and 121 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: received a very high level education at home with the 122 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: best that that money could buy, the best tutelage that 123 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: money could buy. Yeah, yeah, Well also, you know at 124 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: this time, being from the noble class gets gets you 125 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: ahead of the game right in the military, and he 126 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: he starts off as an incident in the foot Guards. 127 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: He eventually becomes a captain just three years later of 128 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: the seventh Light Dragoon Guards. He didn't like the military. 129 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: There are several reports that youphemistically, you mystically say he's 130 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: not cut out for it, that he has quote lethargy, 131 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: and that his health is quote delicate, which means that 132 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 1: this guy was maybe more of an indoors cat. It's 133 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: almost like opinion of the military. It's almost like a 134 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: diplomatic way of saying he was lazy and weak. Right. 135 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: In eighteen twenty four, one of his elder brothers, also 136 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: named William, unfortunately passes away. So this is what we're 137 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: being too. At the top, John gets is elder brother's position. 138 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: He becomes the Marquess of Titchfield and then he takes up, 139 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: you know, everything that that entails, including becoming a Tory MP. 140 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,599 Speaker 1: Uh in King's Lynn and King's Lynn l y N 141 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: is actually one of their traditional family seats. So he's 142 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: there for just like about two years, and he doesn't 143 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: talk much. He doesn't like he doesn't like doing politics either, 144 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: so he doesn't talk very much. He's never super active. Uh. 145 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: And then he's around twenty six when he says to 146 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: one of his uncle's here, I just I just can't. 147 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: I don't feel like doing it. Can you be the 148 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: Tory MP here and his uncle His uncle gladly agrees. 149 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: And now, now lest we seem that we're painting Will 150 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: as a you know, a wil Team lily of some sort, 151 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: we should note that he was an outdoorsman, right. He 152 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: really was a good hunter. People respected his opinion on horses. Uh. 153 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:20,239 Speaker 1: He also, you know, he he also was a gentleman 154 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,239 Speaker 1: of culture. He loved a good opera. He had some crushes. 155 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: He even proposed to one. And uh, this is where 156 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: things started to get real weird for him. Apparently that's 157 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: right at the time, one of the most famous opera 158 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: singers on the planet was Adelaide Kimball. I'm surprised I 159 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: haven't heard her. I think I maybe mentioned on the 160 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: show before that both of my parents were in the opera. Uh. 161 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: And my mother is a very interesting character. She's exactly 162 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: what she would think a retired, kind of aged diva 163 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: might be. She is also quite fond of fine things. 164 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: Not such a great judge of horses though. But Adelaide 165 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: Kimball absolutely ingenue, and he was totally smitten with her. 166 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: I mean, from what we understand from the research that 167 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: we've looked at for this story, I think he was 168 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: like a fan, but he was also wealthy and in 169 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: the upper class, which maybe there was a little entitlement there. Ben, 170 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, because he was in love with her 171 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 1: and he proposed to her, but it's not like they 172 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: might have, you know, somewhat known each other socially. But 173 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: it seems very forward for him to have proposed to her. 174 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: You know, it checks out because she totally turned him down, 175 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: and this event or this um you know, heartbreak, seems 176 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: to have triggered his tunnel digging, you know, mindset. He 177 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: was already not the most talkative guy, and after this 178 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: opera singer turns him down, he becomes a known eccentric. 179 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: He is refusing to see people, including medical professionals. The 180 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: only person who is quote unquote allowed to see him 181 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: is his valet, so his like man servant. Basically, he 182 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: retreats to his home at Whelbeck Abbey, and he has 183 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: two letter boxes outside of his I guess, his suite, 184 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: his rooms, you know, and these two letter boxes are 185 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: his primary means of communication with other people. While this 186 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: is all happening, his father passes away March fifty four 187 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: and William becomes very much non consensually. The fifth Duke 188 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: of Portland's becoming duke. Right, you you enter into this 189 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: world of privilege, right, you are one of the elite 190 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: of this society, and you have a lot of agency 191 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: to do things that the average person could not do. 192 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: And so for William, when he becomes duke, he gets 193 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: more uh, he gets more room socially to be even 194 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: more reclusive. Now he doesn't have to go do stuff. 195 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: You know, there's so many obligations that our fellow ridiculous 196 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: historians or Max or me or you would have to 197 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: do that you just don't have to do if you're 198 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: no ability. So he just stops doing it. He just 199 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: stops doing it. He I can't recommend highly enough this 200 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: history things article. There's some really great photos of his uh, 201 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: his kind of cavernous a state, so highly recommend checking 202 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: that one out. But it's true. He um he has 203 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: been spurned by the love of his life. He essentially 204 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: goes underground in a very very real way. He takes 205 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: this a state, this the family seat, it's sort of 206 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: in the country, and he begins to undergo massive, massive, 207 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: massive construction projects. And it was lucky because the previous 208 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: Duke had been concerned that England was going to see 209 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: in the future a wood shortage, so he planted these 210 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: massive forests of oak uh and they, thankfully, we're just 211 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: starting to, you know, come into maturity when William became 212 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: the Duke himself. So he had just this this awesome 213 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: surplus of building materials um that he was able to 214 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: use to reinforce these tunnels and and build all of 215 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: these additions. And it gets a little bit nuts and 216 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: we don't quite know exactly, you know, what the timeline 217 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: was for some of these projects, but we do know 218 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: that during the eighteen years that he was in charge 219 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: of this estate, Wellbeck Abbey, he oversaw he didn't do 220 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: it himself. He basically, you know, higher these massive team 221 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: of people to dig around twelve miles of tunnels and 222 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: and and they weren't like deep belie the earth. At least, 223 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: they weren't deep beneath the earth. They were really just 224 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: kind of right under the surface of of the estate. Um. 225 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, he they were big though exactly. He even 226 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: dug these tunnels that were topped with glass that were 227 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: large enough for fruit trees to grow. Yeah. Yeah, And 228 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: he also dug tunnels that well, he had tunnels dug 229 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: due to his delicate health. He had tunnels dug that 230 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: were wide enough for horses. He still loved animals. And 231 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: he had a hierarchy to his tunnels, like some tunnels 232 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: were for the working man, and then there were nicer 233 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: tunnels for the upper class, like the dukes and so on. 234 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: And he had he creates an underground compounds. We're talking 235 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: about a ballroom that's more than a hundred and fifty 236 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: eight beat long, and observatory of course, a billiards haul, 237 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: because what's the point otherwise, right, why would you have 238 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: a tunnel complex without a billiard's haul. He also had 239 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: plans that he didn't quite get to, so he wanted 240 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: to have this gargantlin kitchen, a riding house, and stables, 241 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: all underground, and a personal this is one of my favorites, 242 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: a personal roller skating rink, not just for him but 243 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: for the staff, because he was he was a good 244 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: boss in his opinion. He did have a underground library. 245 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: He tried to go under the estate had a lake 246 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: right on the grounds, and he tried to dig under there. 247 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: But you know, due to any number of problems you 248 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: can easily imagine, he eventually abandoned that. This was not 249 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: a dirty place. All the underground rooms where he did 250 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: they had gas lighting. This guy hung out there all 251 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: the time, like the way that the teenage mutant ninja 252 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: turtles hang out in the sewers of New York City. 253 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: This guy was always under a manhole and he was 254 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: kicking it. And it was a pretty nice place. Nice tunnels, 255 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: Oh my god, so nice. I mean, this really was 256 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: like the most bespoke, luxurioust like clubhouse. And you know, 257 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: he seemed like he was surrounded by more horses than 258 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: he was people. Um. I mean, he did have a staff, 259 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: but it didn't seem like he was much of an entertainer. 260 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: He had this massive kitchen that he had designed. He 261 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: even like he participated in the designs of these things, 262 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: by the way, as well, he was always sketching designs 263 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: or at least the kind of like early ideas for 264 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: designs for various rooms and and creations around this this uh, 265 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: this compound. And he wasn't without style, you know, he 266 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: had his own kind of aesthetic. Um. It turns out 267 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: that every single wall in this underground cavern uh and 268 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 1: it was a cavern. Makes it sound like it's dank 269 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: and and and spooky, but it seems like it was 270 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: pretty bright, especially since all the walls were at a 271 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: pink um. And it's not something that really comes up 272 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: in the history of this dude, Like he was a 273 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: massive fan of the color pink. There is in this 274 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: OMG Facts article about the introverted duke who pimped out 275 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: his house to avoid humans, which also has some excellent pictures. 276 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: Kathor Jensen was also unable to find any indication that 277 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: this was a thing over a running theme, this fondness 278 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: of the color pink. So it's it's a little bit odd, right, 279 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: but there was like every single room in the underground 280 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: portion of his estate had this pale rose or like 281 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: pink color. And like I said it before, the tunnels 282 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: weren't incredibly deep. Some of them even had skylights, right. 283 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: We talked about some of the glass top tunnels that 284 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: would allow sun to come in so that the fruit 285 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: trees could grow underground, because obviously without sunlight they would 286 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: be toast. But uh, he just wanted to make sure 287 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: that he had essentially what amounted to like the most 288 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: expensive privacy fence ever created. He just didn't want to 289 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: be snooped upon any of his neighbors. Yeah, yeah, that's 290 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: that's that's the thing. He's not trying to journey to 291 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: the center of the earth. This is not for scientific purposes. 292 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: He just doesn't want to feel like other people are 293 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 1: watching him. He also had, you know, earlier I mentioned 294 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: this kind of hierarchy of tunnels, some for the common folk, 295 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: some for uh, the fancier folk. He had in addition 296 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: to this, his own set of small tunnels that were 297 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: just for him and would go through a trapdoor. The 298 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: point of this was to keep everyone, including his servants, 299 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: from knowing exactly where he was at any given point 300 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: in time, so he could make trips to his other 301 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: estate without anybody knowing one of the tunnels stretched all 302 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: the way to the local train station, so the duke 303 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: may have just popped down his trap door and disappeared. 304 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: It's strange because there are so many like rumors or 305 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: anecdotes about this guy, and you have to search kind 306 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: of carefully for some proven stories. So we know for 307 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: a fact that we know for a fact that Will 308 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: liked to ride alone in a specially constructed carriage that 309 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: was like windows tented kind of style for the time. 310 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: And the more that people knew this guy wanted to 311 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: avoid scrutiny, the more they wanted to see him. And 312 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: so he kind of created his own problem by attempting 313 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: to solve it. By by being perceived as mysterious and 314 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: retreating from the public eye, he sort of enticed the 315 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: public and people wanted to like catch a glimpse of 316 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: the weird duke. But anyway, the carriage was made so 317 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: that you can't see inside of it, and he had 318 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: spy holes so he can look out like all over 319 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: the carriage he could look out and see people. It's 320 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: it's very weird. It's almost it's almost like a like 321 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: a shoe box for your pet. Frau we have like 322 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: holes poked in it or something like that. Odd dude. 323 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: And people knew that he was an odd dude because, 324 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: like you know, a lot of the looky lose that 325 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: were kind of trying to catch a glimpse of him, 326 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: they were not in his employee necessarily, whereas like the 327 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: staff at his London state, they didn't want to be 328 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: seen when he arrived because they knew that that would 329 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 1: like freak him out or that would maybe even put 330 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,479 Speaker 1: their jobs in jeopardy, so they would like dart, you 331 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: know into darkened corners or you know, like when they 332 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: saw him coming, they probably there's probably like a call 333 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: of life easier. I Yeah, like like how Max, when 334 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: Max joined on this show, you know his MAXI no offense, 335 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: but your contract is crazy. We had to side to 336 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: things saying we wouldn't make eye contact with Max. Yeah. 337 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: It's definitely very strange and awkward at times, but I 338 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: think we've figured it out. Something we have, We've we've 339 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: navigated these strange waters. We wouldn't have any other way, Max, 340 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: we wouldn't have it any other way. But he um, 341 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: so let's see what's next. Um. Hardcourt House was his 342 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: other estate in London, and he started to kind of 343 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,239 Speaker 1: incorporate some of these weird designs into that estate as 344 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: well eventually, Right, not exactly the underground kind, but certainly 345 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: the very very over the top privacy measures. Yeah, it's 346 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: weird because he One of the things he did at 347 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: Hardcourt House, probably the most extreme example of his eccentricity, 348 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: was that he created a gigantic screen, a glass screen 349 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: that was eighty feet high, two something feet on each side. 350 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: He made this screen entirely so that his neighbors could 351 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: not see into the garden. This was specifically round glass, 352 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: so it's a glass wall, but it wasn't transparent, you 353 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: know what I mean. It was like speak of like 354 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: frosted glass, right, And this was entirely just to keep 355 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: his neighbors from knowing what was going on, which, again 356 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: I argue, just makes it more enticing for people to 357 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: try to catch a glimpse of this guy. And everybody's 358 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,479 Speaker 1: everybody's treating him like that Tom Waite's song. They're like, 359 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: what's he building in there? You know, like, what is 360 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: he up to? Why is he hiding? There must be 361 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: a reason. He becomes the butt of a lot of 362 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: jokes and some people call him the mad Duke of 363 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: Portland's According to a Worshop resident quoted on worshop web 364 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: dot co dot uk t k S, who grew up 365 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: hearing stories about how weird this dude is, and people 366 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: tried to make reasons. They like tried to explain where 367 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: this guy was coming from or what his motivation was. 368 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: They said, you know, he's probably he's probably a bit 369 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: of a litario. You know, he's got a bunch of 370 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: different lovers sneaking through the tunnels. Other people say, no, no, 371 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: he makes secret trips, sure, but they're to church, not 372 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: two dalliances. He's he's going to pray in peace and 373 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: you guys gotta stop bugging him about it. That's why 374 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: he went underground. Literally, other people are like, no, he's disfigured, 375 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: he's got a weird face. He's got a face thing 376 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: going on. And then you know, he's he's got to 377 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: use the tunnels so that you jerks will stop laughing 378 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: at him. Or maybe he's got a disease and he's contagious. 379 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: Like people were just throwing stuff out there. Yeah, none 380 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: of this was backed up by literally anything. Yeah, that 381 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: he was having dalliances with God though. That's that's a 382 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: fun one for me. Yeah, yeah, but it was it 383 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: wasn't that at all. He was just shy. He wasn't 384 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: even like a monster or anything, right, Like, I mean, 385 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,719 Speaker 1: all of our all indications, like, I mean, he certainly 386 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: had to have been a bit of a stern taskmaster 387 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: if he was commanding these you know, legions of like 388 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: workers to dig these crazy tunnels, and he certainly had 389 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: a vision, but he really just wanted to be left alone. 390 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: We don't really have any indication that he was ever 391 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: cruel to any of his staff. I think he was 392 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: just kind of a sad, like heartbroken dude that kind 393 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: of just didn't want to mix with society. And I 394 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: mean I think we all have moments where we can 395 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: understand that, right yeah, I mean have you seen society lately? 396 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: Can you really blame people for not wanting to be 397 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: tintoes down on that concept? I I get it. I'm 398 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: just saying I I I get it. And you know, 399 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: honestly a lot of people then and probably now, I 400 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: I think and see the appeal right of solitude, But 401 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: this person is coming from enormous privilege. They can make 402 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: that desire real because they have the money and the 403 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: power in the position to do so. And there's nothing 404 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: wrong with being shy, you know, you don't again, you 405 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: the moral of the stories. You don't always have to 406 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: interact with people. You don't have to feel obligated to. 407 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: He just took it so much further than the average 408 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 1: person could. He when when he first tried to kind 409 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: of occlude himself from society, he tried to close the 410 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: what are called the public rights of way across his estate. 411 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: So a public right of way means, you know, hey, 412 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: you might not be the duke who owns you know, 413 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 1: uh Schroppenham, fart sure on Sandwich or whatever the name 414 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: of the estate is, but you have the right to 415 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: cross at certain points because you have to get from 416 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: point A to point B. He tried to shut that down. 417 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: He was like, I don't no new friends, as Drake 418 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: would say. And this is what led him to creating 419 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: his Warring of tunnels, because the other the other members 420 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: of the ruling class were like, hey, can't you can't 421 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: stop people from walking here, And then he responded, you know, 422 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: by going subterranean totally. I mean it's like any you know, 423 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: super wealthy area in in whatever city. I mean, you 424 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: don't have the right to pull into someone's driveway. I 425 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: mean maybe he could flip a uie or something like that, 426 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: but they could probably still yell at you, and rightfully so. 427 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: But it's not like they're gonna be able to close 428 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: Mulholland Drive, you know, in in Hollywood. Um, that would 429 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: be a nightmare because it's like one road in, one 430 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: road out. Um, So this totally makes sense. There would 431 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: be some beef behind that, and it's kind of funny 432 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: indication of his slight out of touchness that he was 433 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: so in his own head and just wanted to be 434 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: alone that he didn't even really think of others. So 435 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: while he doesn't seem like he was a monster, he 436 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: probably was a little bit self involved. Let's just say that. 437 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: That's just my guess. But he has a quote as 438 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: to We have a quote from him from Notts History 439 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: uh dot org dot uk that sort of sums up 440 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: his attitude about all this, and that is how he 441 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: describes his precious underground dwellings. Uh quote. Here have I 442 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: provided for you, at enormous expense, a clean pathway underground, 443 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: lighted with gas too, and you will persist in walking 444 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: above ground. Uh, that is what he would say to 445 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: visitors when they came to his estate. And it's almost 446 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: like he was doing them a solid right because he 447 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: was like, you know what the above ground is for 448 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: you enjoy the sunshine, enjoy the gardens, enjoy the lovely woodland, 449 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: scenic views and all of the flowers and all of that, 450 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: while he all the while stayed undergrown in what likely 451 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, we're talking about gas lamp span. 452 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: I want to ask your opinion here underground like that. 453 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: I know, when they burn, it burns off the gas, 454 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: but one, if one one was left on, wouldn't it 455 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: be a fire hazard. I can kind of imagine like 456 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: just a pillar, like backdraft style, a flame just filling 457 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: these tunnels. If there was a mishap with some of 458 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,239 Speaker 1: these gas lamps. Yeah, it goes back to what I 459 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: was saying earlier regarding the concept of privilege. This guy 460 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: was able to do this because he wasn't doing a 461 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: lot of the work, a lot of the maintenance. So 462 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: there were people monitoring these gas lamps. There was someone 463 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: continually checking on these things, cleaning the tunnels, making sure 464 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: that they were in good repair. So when he says, here, 465 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: I have provided for you at enormous expense. He probably 466 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: paid for it. But it's not like he was digging 467 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: these holes. It's not like he was lighting these lamps. 468 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: He did get a kick ass nickname out of it, though, 469 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: the Invisible Prince. He also This is something I was 470 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: wondering for a while. I wondered if he was the 471 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: type of person to jump out and try to spook people, 472 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, like in Um Tim and Eric, where there's 473 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: the spaghett guy who just jumps out of spaghett. He 474 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: he was. He. I would I proposally cast Tim Hidecker 475 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: as the Invisible Prince or the underground Duke, because Will 476 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: liked to jump out and surprise people, and he liked 477 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: to make the environment increasingly off putting for folks. He 478 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, he was. He was called a misanthrope, but 479 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: perhaps that's unfair in a way because he primarily just 480 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: didn't want to have to interact with people. I don't think. 481 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: I don't think not feeling obligated to hang out with 482 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: everyone all the time makes you a hater of humanity. No, 483 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,239 Speaker 1: but I do feel like he could be like the 484 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: patron saint of Zenniel's you know who will do everything 485 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: in their power to avoid human interaction outside of like 486 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: the Internet, And I think that's why things like food 487 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: ordering apps are so popular. Like my kid and some 488 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: of her friends will do absolutely anything they can to 489 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: avoid having to speak to someone they don't know super well. 490 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: And I think this is this checks out, This tracks 491 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: with the duke here. Um. Yeah, it's almost like there's 492 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: the accounts, like I've been kind of indicating, like we 493 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: don't really have accounts of him being cruel to workers, 494 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: but some of the accounts, like there's there's sort of 495 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: a divide, right and in the way that he's described 496 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: as treating his workers, like he definitely did the thing 497 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: where you like to jump out and spooked them, you know, 498 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: I am assuming for his own amusement a little bit. 499 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: It's it's not clear if he was trying to catch them, 500 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,479 Speaker 1: you know, not working and and punish them in some way. Uh. 501 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: It could certainly have been that at times, but it 502 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: really feels more like you described to been like the 503 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: Spaghette kind of vibes. Um. But historians disagree a little 504 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: bit on whether he was a very forward thinking duke 505 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: and that he housed his workers, you know, on his property. 506 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: He gave them access to what could be considered now 507 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: like an employer health plan. Uh, they gave them regular 508 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: doctor visits and all that. But then there are other 509 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: um also he fed them of course, and provided them 510 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: with all of the amenities they needed to live, and 511 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: also made sure their families were comfortable as well, and 512 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: also would continue to house the widows of workers who 513 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: had passed away, whether through imagine there had to have 514 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: been We don't have stories of this been, but I 515 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: can't imagine this. All these tunnels were dug without some 516 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: calamitous cavan at some point. Luck Yeah, luckily they were 517 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: just under the surface. That's that's another big part of it. 518 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: That's a very good point also, glad to report as 519 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: far as we know, there wasn't a specific like widow tunnel. 520 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: I don'tunderstand, but we have the other accounts been the 521 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: of of him not of these things being largely exaggerated, 522 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: and that perhaps these you know, housing for his workers 523 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: were not all they were cracked up to be. Yeah, 524 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:02,959 Speaker 1: there's there's there's this image that it can't stop dragging 525 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: myself up about, which is imagined, Like you said, imagine 526 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: you're working on this the state. You're digging a tunnel, 527 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: and this guy pops out. He's like, spaghett I'm just 528 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: kidding you. Guys. Keep keep digging. You guys are killing it. 529 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: You know. Don't look at me, No one look at me. 530 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: All right, I'm going back in the tunnel. The thing is, 531 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: the issues surrounding employment at this time are many and varied, 532 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: not just with this duke. This duke in particular had, 533 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,719 Speaker 1: you know, like he had some good stuff going on 534 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: in comparison to other employers at the time. And it's 535 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: true that he did build a roller skating rink. That 536 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: actually happened for his employees. They all got outfitted with 537 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: certain stuff. Everybody got a nice suit of clothing and 538 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: a donkey so they could move across the state easily. 539 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: He even this kind of avier, and these standards earned 540 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: him the moniker, the worker's friend. But in addition to 541 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: that we see a bit of an authoritarian streak, which 542 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: shouldn't be surprising, right, because this guy is a member 543 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: of a monarchical society. His employees eventually go on strike 544 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: and they say, hey, you're having us dig these great hauls. 545 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: That's ten thou square feet out of solid clay. We're 546 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: doing all of this tunneling for you. We deserve to 547 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 1: be treated better and we at least want more money. 548 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: So when they go on strike, the Duke tells them, quote, 549 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: you can strike as long as you like. It does 550 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: not matter to me if the work is never done. 551 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: And then like he like, he called their bluff and eventually, no, Max, 552 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: they started digging again. They were like, Okay, he's kidding. 553 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: He doesn't care. This guy is unreasonable. We cannot reason 554 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: with him. And so the Duke can avoid other people, right, 555 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: But the question is can he avoid aging? Can he 556 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: avoid mortality? That's the one stranger he can't run from. Yeah, exactly. 557 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: But look, it's not like he seemed to care about 558 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 1: having friends or family. Um, his solitude was really his 559 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: kind of stock in trade, and there are some accounts 560 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: of him kind of buddying it up with some of 561 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 1: the workers and sharing kind of you know, talking shop 562 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: or or sharing gardening secret tricks or whatever, because he 563 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: was into this stuff. But like we said, you can 564 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: barricade yourself away from you know, humanity, but at the 565 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: end of the day, you are still human, whether you 566 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: want to be or not, and humans die. So he 567 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,959 Speaker 1: began to age, and with aging that eccentricity can kind 568 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: of ramp up a little bit. So his construction projects 569 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: started to get more and more weird and less and 570 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: less functional. He even had a few natural lakes that 571 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: existed on the grounds drained and cemented over. Like. I mean, 572 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 1: this guy had some undiagnosed mental illness. I'm gonna go 573 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: so far as to say, in my armchair psychiatrist position here, 574 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: it certainly seems like there would be a name for this, 575 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: and I would want to know. I would be very 576 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: interested to dig a little deeper and find out what 577 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: that is. I mean, antisocial personality disorder, perhaps agoraphobia, any 578 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: of this combination of these things. But yeah, when you 579 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: start like cementing over lakes, you're getting dangerously into like 580 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: Howard Hughes territory, right, I mean, what the fish to see? 581 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: I know, I mean, who knows, who knows what? What's 582 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: what's going on there? Um. He also was very very 583 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: close to having the servants quarters like demolished in order 584 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: to build a glasslined path to the chapel. So he 585 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: was somewhat of a religious man. I mean he wasn't 586 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: necessarily taking this secret soldiers to church like some of 587 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: the townspeople maybe you know, made up in their minds. 588 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: But he did possibly want to have a secret glass 589 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, tunnel path to his chapel. Like. He didn't 590 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: do that. He decided not to do that. Yeah, but 591 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: he did decide to reduce the just the floor space 592 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: that he was active in in his estate. So even 593 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: though he had all these tunnels, as he got on 594 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: an age, he started living in just five rooms of 595 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: this compound. And just like the tunnels, these were all 596 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: these rooms were painted pink, and he had toilets installed 597 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,479 Speaker 1: in every room because he's like, you know, I've earned 598 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: my place in the world. I shall never again be 599 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: in a room where I can't I don't know, poop 600 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: if I want to. He was very bothered by that. 601 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: It was important to him that there would be a 602 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: toilet in each room. He also never left those five 603 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: rooms as he as he grew older, except to go 604 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: out on night walks. I'm a fan of night walks, 605 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: I get you. So when John was on these night walks, 606 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: he would have a servant walked exactly forty yards in 607 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: front of him holding a lantern so he could kind 608 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: to see where he was going. And when he absolutely 609 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: had to go outside during the day, he wore like 610 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: it was like the sun would burn him or something. 611 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: You know, maybe he was a vampire. Null, maybe he 612 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 1: was a vampire. He had two big coats, like overcoats, 613 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 1: and they would wear a tall hat and he would 614 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: hide behind an umbrella if people tried to talk to him. 615 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: That is a true story. Yeah, no, it's very true. 616 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: He's definitely a spooky dude, no question about it. And 617 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,240 Speaker 1: he did pass away in de Scember six of eighteen 618 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: seventy nine. He was seventy nine years old and just 619 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 1: about six months before his death. He uh he Amost's 620 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: almost as though he sensed what was coming, because he 621 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: was able to take one of those one of his 622 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: famous carriage rides through those tunnels on his way to 623 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: his other estate where he passed away in the hardcourt House. 624 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: Kind of interesting that he didn't die in one of 625 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: those five rooms. I guess he really did seem like 626 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,399 Speaker 1: he kind of knew what was coming. Interestingly enough, he 627 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: was immortalized in a character that I think many of 628 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: us will be familiar with, um Mr Badger from the 629 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Graham, who is kind 630 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 1: of an eccentric underground dweller himself who rules over his 631 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: kingdom which is known as the wild Wood from his 632 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 1: underground you know, kind of heidy hole, sort of a layer, 633 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,359 Speaker 1: and he is a very important character in in that book, 634 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: along with Mr Toad and Mole. Uh. And there's a 635 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,360 Speaker 1: there's a very nice quote um that we found on 636 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: an Atlas Obscure article that kind of is it's clear 637 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: that Graham definitely was aware of this guy's legacy, says 638 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: who can tell? L said? The badger people come, they 639 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: stay for a while, they flourished, they build, and they go, 640 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,320 Speaker 1: but we remain. There were badgers here, I've been told 641 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: long before that same city ever came to be. And 642 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: now there are badgers here again. We are an enduring lot, 643 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 1: and we may move out for a time, but we 644 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: wait and we are patient, and back we come, and 645 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 1: so it will ever be. Today. You can visit well 646 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: Back Abbey. It is open for tours, but you won't 647 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 1: be able to see the underground chambers. A lot of 648 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: them have not been maintained, so they're probably not safe 649 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,439 Speaker 1: to enter. Uh. Sort of like a cavern system where 650 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: you can only go to some parts of the caves. 651 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: Which is interesting because, as Kaythor Johnson points out, john 652 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 1: probably would have been down with this. It would have 653 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 1: given him some sort of satisfaction. Maybe he would have 654 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: felt good knowing that people can't go explore his tunnels 655 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: to day, and with that his story ends, but his 656 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: legacy remains. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone. 657 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: What's the weirdest thing you've done to avoid hanging out with? People? 658 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: Love to hear from you. Let us know, Let your 659 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians know on our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians, 660 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: And I can ask Max, You've been kind of quiet 661 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: for this one. What's what's the weirdest thing you've done 662 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: to avoid people? Oh? Man, weirdest thing I've done to 663 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: avoid people? That is, um, that's a treat question. I 664 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: generally like to hide at work, where I'll be like, Oh, 665 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,359 Speaker 1: I have this really important thing I've to do at work, 666 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: I can't come hang out, and then I'm like sitting 667 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: here renaming files a lot. So you gotta actually do 668 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,479 Speaker 1: the thing or something some semblance of the thing you said, 669 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:53,320 Speaker 1: Otherwise you'd be a liar. I I appreciate your commitment 670 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: to the bit. Max. I just started telling people, folks 671 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: the listen and stuff they don't want you to know. 672 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: We'll have maybe heard the moment we discovered this. But 673 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: I just started telling people I have become strange, and 674 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: if you say it with a straight face, usually people 675 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: just vibe with it. It's a process, that's for sure. 676 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: But this is the story has been a bit of 677 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: a process to you guys. There's a whole there's there's 678 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: details we couldn't even fit into the story. Uh. There 679 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,800 Speaker 1: there was a very weird um lawsuit in Nteno seven 680 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: where a man named George hell Ambi Drew's claimed that 681 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: our boy John had actually faked his own death. Um, 682 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: that might be a story for another day, or even 683 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: a story for our other show. Stuff they don't want 684 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: you to know. It turns out it was largely completely bogus, 685 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 1: but very very interesting. And that's really what brought him, 686 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: in his whole story, back into the zeitgeist. And that's 687 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: what caused Kenneth Graham to become a fan and write 688 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: him into that that book Wind in the Willows. Um. 689 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: But this has been a fantastic story and We hope 690 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: that you've enjoyed it. I certainly have yes, Thanks as 691 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 1: always to our number one badger, Max Williams. Thanks to 692 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: our number two badger, Alex Williams, who composed this track. 693 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,879 Speaker 1: That's right, Max, Tell tell your brother he's number two 694 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 1: now and of course number two. Oh wow, yeah, that's 695 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 1: is that technically true? That is so so Also thanks 696 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: to Gabe Luzier, our research associate. That's right. Thanks to 697 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: Jonathas Trickland the quist or. Thanks to Christopher Haciota is 698 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: here in spirit. He's Jeff Cote uh a leak. She's 699 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: on vacation, so we'll call her here in spirit too. 700 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,719 Speaker 1: And thanks to you Ben Um this this was This 701 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,040 Speaker 1: was a fun one. We'll see you next time, Foix. 702 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I 703 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,239 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 704 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.