WEBVTT - Emma Watson EXCLUSIVE: The Story She Has Not Shared Until Now 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.200 I realized have the career and the life that looks 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:09.920 like the dream. But are you really happy? Emma? Are 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:12.680 you really healthy? And have to admit to myself that 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.640 I wasn't was one of the scariest things I've ever 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:16.239 had to do. 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:22.480 The number one health and wellness podcast Shed j Shenny 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:27.720 Shed Emma, welcome to on Purpose. I'm so grateful that 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.960 you're here. And you know you've kind of been out 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.120 of the public eye for a while now. Yes, and 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.320 don't do that many interviews. I've watched the interviews you 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:40.240 have done even before we plan to do this, and 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.879 I wanted to ask from an intention point almost why now? 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:45.280 Why today? Why here? 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.520 I think I mentioned but I read your book because 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.920 my dear friend Nupah told me that I should, and 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:54.920 every now and again I would see you come up 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.880 on my feed. I don't spend much time on Instagram anymore, 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:01.840 but when I did, I just felt like you were 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.840 having a different conversation. And it's not that I have 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:10.759 stopped doing interviews because I want to hide myself away. 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:13.880 I think it's because I wanted to be able to 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:16.000 have a certain type of conversation that I didn't seem 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.360 able to find a space for and so I called 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.560 Nooper and said, I think I just reached out to 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:25.399 Jay to see if you would let me come into 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.280 this podcast on Monday. And she was like, I've been 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.920 waiting for this. I wondered when you would do this. 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:32.120 I was like, how did you know I was going 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.400 to do it. She's like, I don't know. I just 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:38.080 felt like this was coming. So here I am, and 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.039 you said yes, and the timing worked. I contacted you 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.080 last week and it's Monday, and so. 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:46.560 Well from well, that means the world to me. Truly, 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.560 I'm so grateful for that because the few interactions and 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.880 conversations we've had since then, and you've sent me a 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.680 few things to read over, whether it's journals or reflections, 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.120 and honestly, I think I just said it to you 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.800 a few moments ago, and I mean it, even if 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:02.920 we weren't having this conversation today and you just sent 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.440 me those things to reflect on myself, that would have 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.040 already been a gift. And so the opportunity to actually 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.440 sit with you and to talk about these things and 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.640 have this space to have a conversation that you feel 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:15.520 you haven't had before means the world to me, and 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.480 so thank you for trusting me, and I look forward 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.799 to getting to know you so much better. But let's 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.040 dive in. I wanted I wanted to start by asking you, like, 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.600 you said something there that was really beautiful because you 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.160 stopped for a moment. Then you said, it's easier to 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:31.320 be honest, and I was like, I wanted to understand 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.800 what that meant to you and how that feels. 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.240 Such a big part of my job was trying to 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:38.880 think three steps ahead of how everything that I would 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.920 say would be could negatively impact the film that I 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.480 was trying to do justice to and do service to 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:51.440 and make sure that people understood what the director had intended. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.320 And I felt this enormous sense of responsibility all the 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:59.880 time to honor so many people's work that put to 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.520 gather something like a film or you know, even to 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:07.000 some degree. I just did a fragrance with Prada and 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.760 it's the first perfume bottle that you can like refill, 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:14.880 And I don't know, I take my job seriously, I guess, 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.120 and so interviews to me felt a lot like chess, 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.000 and it required so much energy, and I think, what's 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:23.920 nice about the way that I'm showing up today is 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.160 I'm just showing up for myself and for once, I 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.160 actually I'm not here to speak on behalf of anyone 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:35.720 else or anything else other than myself, which is unusual. 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.520 Yeah. I think it's such a fascinating thing because as 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.840 a viewer, even before I got closer to the industry, 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:47.400 as a viewer, everything's made to feel in traditional media 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.760 so easy, and it has levity and it feels like 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.440 you're getting someone's real personality, and then you realize that 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:59.480 you are. There's definitely reality to it and truth to it. Yes, 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.880 same time, naturally, it's work, Yeah, and there's a job, 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.839 and I think it's not as and you can shed 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:08.440 more light on this. I don't think it's always as 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.520 insidious or as dark as people may think it is. 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.000 But there's just it's a job and it's work, and 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.920 there's results that matter the right one hundred percent. 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.680 And I think within those contexts, everyone is trying to 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.920 be as authentic as they humanly can be. But there's 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:28.440 something about I think it's what I mentioned earlier about 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.880 why I felt like this was a good space. There's 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.960 something inherently written into certain types of forms of media 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:39.480 which is that it doesn't matter what intentional or how 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.200 authentically you want to show up, but the form somehow 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:46.599 doesn't allow it. Yeah, to some degree, And I've become 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.279 obsessed with this recently. I've been looking at, Okay, what 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.000 is written into the form of something like Twitter or 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:55.839 Instagram or TikTok, or a podcast versus or a photograph 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.680 versus a film versus a piece of writing, And it's 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:02.040 really interesting to see what a different medium or different 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:07.480 form allows or doesn't allow, and or like actually creates 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.400 or encourages. I've never done a podcast before, but I 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.240 love I think what I love about it is the 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.359 is the intimacy of it. It's like, I feel like 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.640 people listen to podcasts when they're like I certainly do anyway, 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:20.640 Like first thing in the morning, when I'm taking my 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:22.880 shower or I'm going on my walk or I'm making 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.120 my breakfast. It's really like personal, intimate time. And I 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.440 think the long form version of these kinds of conversations 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.000 allows for such a different kind of discussion that I 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:34.200 don't think was possible before. 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.080 Yeah, absolutely, I can agree with you more. I was 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:37.560 going to ask you, actually, because I want everyone to 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.440 get up to date with where you are now, Like 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.279 what is what is your day to day life look like? 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.080 You just said, like I wake up in a shower 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:44.560 and I've go on a walk, Like what does your 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:46.840 day to day life look like right now? And what 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.560 makes what's it made of? And one of the things 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:50.800 that you love and look forward to. 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:57.279 I recently started riding a bicycle, and yes, I said 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.760 riding my school before my driving ban, but now it's 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.560 acually for titus. But I also ride a bicycle for 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:04.200 that reason. 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.119 But that was mainstream news. Oh my god. 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:09.919 I was getting phone called like it's on the BBC, 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:13.760 It's on international worldwide news. I was like, my shame 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:19.320 is everywhere? This is I mean what I say, it's 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.440 I don't know. I think in a funny way. What 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.200 the sweetest result of it was getting so many messages 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.800 from being people being like, happen to me too, I 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.719 feel you. This is awful. It sucks, which was kind 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.359 of nice in a way, but yeah, totally do you 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:38.440 need a left It's like, actually yes, but I think again, 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.920 it's funny, like I went from when you work on movies, 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.240 I don't know if people know this, but like they 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.919 literally will not ensure you to drive yourself to work. 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.359 I've asked so many times, you have to be driven. 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.560 You have to be driven. It's like not a choice, 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.160 and especially because they need you there, you know, down 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:56.520 to the minute, basically depending on what they have going on. 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.719 And so I went from basically only driving myself on 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.080 week ordering holiday and then when I became student, driving 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:07.480 myself all the time. And yeah, I did not have 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.800 the experience or skills clearly which I now will and 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.760 and do. But I think again, this was one of 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.119 these like awkward transitions I made from kind of living 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:22.280 this like very very structured life to living a life 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.840 where I was like, Okay, I guess I'm going to 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.320 get myself to this place and I'm going to like 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.080 do this thing that I've basically not done since I 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.040 was ten years old. So it's been a discovery and 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:39.120 a journey that's been Yeah, I guess humbling because on 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:40.840 a movie SAT I'm able to do all of these 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:46.280 like extremely complex things stunts saying dance like do this thing, 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.080 do that whatever, and I'm like, yep, don't worry about it, guys, 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.320 no worries. I've got you. And then I get home 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.800 and I'm like Okay, Emma, you teom money able to 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.720 remember keys, you get money, able to like keep yourself 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.200 at thirty miles an hour in a thirty mins, I'll 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:04.120 speed limit, like you don't seem able to do some 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:08.400 pretty like basic life things. And it was definitely kind 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.240 of Yeah. I had days where I just wanted to 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.080 turn around to people and be like I used to 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.480 be good at things. Okay, I used to be really 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.000 good at things. And I know it doesn't look like 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:22.200 that right now, but I used to. I can do 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:27.240 things normally. So yeah, it's been it's been humbling. 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:29.080 I feel I feel like all of us. I feel 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.040 like all of us can relate to that, though, really, 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.600 because doesn't everyone forget their keys their wallet, doesn't know 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.079 where things are like these are these are like series. 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.000 And by the way, I was, I think I was 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.319 three points away from losing my license before I moved 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:41.880 to the States. 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.160 Thank you for that confession. I appreciate that. 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.360 So because I was in the States for I've been 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:48.199 in the States now for nine years, and I think 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.199 it happened just but then all the points get wiped 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.400 off and I think I'm now back to six points. 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.640 I spent two months in London a year. Okay, every 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.000 time I go back, I seem to. 0:08:58.120 --> 0:08:58.800 Very much better. 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:00.920 Yeah, I'm confessing to. 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.760 A lot of people. Actually, a lot of people have 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:07.760 like taken it upon themselves to come and confess to me, 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.280 which I've found like very like very endearing and like 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.640 really really appreciate it. But no, I think, you know, 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.600 I think something I've been realizing is we most of 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.120 us live in a state of like, I'm just trying 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:25.760 to kind of figure it out and keep it together, 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.360 and the only thing that is different between us is 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:36.160 people's willingness to be honest about that, the degree to 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.320 which they can admit to actually I'm just like scrabbling 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:43.320 around trying to keep the reasons together versus oh yeah, 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.000 I know, everything's amazing and everything's incredible and I'm having 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.200 the best day ever and aren't you? And you know 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.920 so I do love the people who are just willing 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:59.160 to be like, yeah, it's it's not going so well today, 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.200 I'm like, very amazing. What a good starting point? Like, 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.560 I don't know, failure as a starting point feels like 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:10.560 I feel like attempting things is so compelling, and of 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.400 course success is wonderful, But I love to see people 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.559 who are like, I'm really bad at this, but I'm 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.440 going to try. I love you. That's everything to me. 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.280 And that seems to be becoming harder and harder now, 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.559 Like that desire to attempt something that you would be 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.800 good at, Yeah, because it's exposed, or because everyone will 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.199 see it, or because everyone will hear about it. Yeah, 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.800 talking about attempting things, I mean you're currently studying, right, 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:35.360 you're learning? 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.559 Yes, yes, Well, two things I want to say there 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.000 is I think in a way I was sort of 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:46.800 I mean, I'm someone who's always cared about vulnerability and authenticity, 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.400 but I think I was also forced into it to 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.400 a degree that that maybe even I wasn't ready for, 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.920 and that like I just started so young that like 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.120 I had to learn in public. I had to make 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:03.760 mistakes in public and say, oh, okay, now I've learned this, 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:06.000 and I had to be willing to go back and 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:10.920 be like, hmm, like there are some gats here and 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.400 here's what I know now. And I think people's I 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.959 agree with you. I think it's becoming increasingly difficult to 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.959 learn in public and continuing to learn. I mean, I 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.760 think that's one of the reasons why I have gone 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.079 back to school and why I continue to do it 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.160 is because I want to make sure that I have 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:32.199 things to say that are worth saying. And I think 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.959 you can only do that if you take a minute 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:36.160 sometimes and. 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:38.360 Listen to some. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.800 People who aren't you, you know, like not just the 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:46.839 sound of my own, my own wonderful voice. So yeah, 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:48.600 it's been it's been great. And I think also I 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.199 needed to I wanted to be inspired. I think being 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:55.000 around my favorite piece has been being around young people 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.840 who still believe that the world is malleable and things 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.160 are changeable, and and that like anything can be done 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:08.520 is such important energy. There's so much dystopian fiction at 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:14.040 the moment, and dystopian movies so dark, and I'm just like, 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.520 what happened to thinking about the utopia? What happened to 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:21.000 like planning for the best case scenario? Like where where 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:27.640 did we lose? Yeah? Vision, excitement, imagination, possibility. So I 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:32.160 think it's been. Yeah, it's been wonderful to be around 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.600 young people and just to sit there and listen. Yeah, 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.600 do you ever I mean, you clearly read so much. 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.679 Do you have to take yourself away to do it? 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.360 In order to be able to do it? Do you 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:45.040 have to call it an off time? Like, how are 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.880 you still managing to study and learn because that seems 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:49.120 like it's important to you. 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.400 Yeah, you reminded me as you were talking of one 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:53.800 of my spiritual teachers, my monk teacher, who always said 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.200 to me, if you want to move three steps forward, 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.200 you have to go three steps deep first. 0:12:58.520 --> 0:12:59.040 WHOA. 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.640 And what I've found often in my life is I'm 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.680 trying to go four steps forward and i haven't yet 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.760 gone four steps deep. And so it's almost like, I mean, 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.760 this is probably a terrible analogy, but maybe thinking of 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.600 the movie The Substance, I don't know if you watched it, 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.680 get terrible, let's rema, no, no, no, let's forget about it. 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.880 But it's that idea of like every extra step you 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.280 take when you haven't learned, and you haven't experimented, and 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:27.960 you haven't attempted, is taking away from your ability to 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.960 move forward. And sometimes I think when we feel stuck, 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.760 or when we think things are not moving or they're 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:37.280 not progressing, we may be a signed to say, well, 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.400 pause and go deeper for a second, or pause and 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.520 go inward for a second. And so to me, hearing 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.560 that from you. I find that and I'm I definitely 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.959 fail at this all the time. There are so many 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.320 times I'm trying to push more forward than I've gone deep. 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.600 And so whenever I notice there myself and I notice 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.840 that I'm just kind of trying everything and nothing is working, 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.520 it's actually just the universe and self saying to me, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.600 go read, go study. And so I've found that I've 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:09.360 had to really carve out time to make time to 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.440 do what I love, which is to read and study. 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.319 But I've found that I'm someone who doesn't love thirty 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.360 minutes a day. I'm not that kind of a reader. 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.200 I'm someone who needs to read for three or four hours, 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.320 if not more. And so I found that carving out deep, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.520 immersive time is more important to me than this kind 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:29.000 of mechanical thirty forty minutes a day, which is great 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:30.520 for you if that works for you as a habit, 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.680 it doesn't for me because I'm a bit of an 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.200 extremist and I just need to spend a whole weekend reading, yeah, 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.160 as opposed to I don't need to read every day. 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.040 So I'll try, and I try once a month on 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.760 a weekend to just absorb into a subject that I love, 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.520 and I'll take a course, I'll go to a class, 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.160 I'll watch a Ted talk online, I'll read as many 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.120 books as I can, and I try and immerse myself 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:54.800 that way. What's your learning stuff? 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.720 I'm the same as you. And actually someone who I 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.760 really respect and ask for advice for offer and I 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:05.760 asked for feedback on myself. He said to me, Emma, 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.560 I think if you did ninety percent of what you 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.960 wanted to do at fifty percent of the speed, you 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.240 would get so much more like life would be so 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.280 much better. And I was like, wow, fifty percent of 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.280 the speed and only ninety percent of what I want 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.360 to do. And he was like, I think that's the 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.080 minimum to be honest, And I was like wow, But 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:31.160 I think, yeah, what you said resonates. I think I 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.920 often have to remind myself that it's not about speedily 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.800 getting somewhere. It's just not the point. Things are supposed 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:46.280 to happen with a certain timing. And so, yeah, resonates, 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.000 And to your point, I cannot just sit for thirty 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.200 minutes and look at something I need. I need kind 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.160 of like a week on holiday, and then I'll start 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.320 to deeply get into something and I need quiet and 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.160 I hyper focus and I that's when I you know, 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.440 I love it, but I can't. I can't do a 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.120 little itty bitty bits. 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.440 Yeah. Nuts, it just doesn't work. 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:09.080 It doesn't work. 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.280 It doesn't work. For you said that you felt that 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.840 you had to learn in public. Yeah, you made mistakes, 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.320 like what were mistakes that felt like mistakes then that 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.240 made you feel like, oh gosh, I made that mistake 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:22.000 in public. But I was ten years old or whatever 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.880 it was, and now you look back and you think, oh, 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.640 you know I was able to process it. Yeah. 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:33.040 I think the big one was feminism and intersectional feminism, 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:39.040 and frankly, it just like wasn't taught, you know, I 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:42.760 had to really seek out. And I'm really grateful actually 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:46.440 that I was in many ways quite lovingly called in 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.160 as opposed to I mean, some of it was not. 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:54.480 But I think that was definitely a moment where I 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:58.320 had to say, Okay, I'm talking about something really big 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.760 and important and it's actually really important to sit this 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:06.879 in some context, which I have not done. And I 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.359 think that was a big moment. I think it was 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:13.080 more there was an omission that there was things that 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.600 were missing as opposed to I had said something wrong. 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.720 I just needed I just needed to fill in more gaps. 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.480 And so that was when I started, or that was 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.240 actually in the middle. I had a feminist book club 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:30.040 called the Art Chared Sheelf, and so that was part 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:34.520 of those conversations. But it was a good moment for 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:39.919 me to learn that feeling uncomfortable sometimes is good. I 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:42.080 think we have an alarm system that goes off, which 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.600 is I'm uncomfortable. This feels uncomfortable, so something bad must 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.680 be happening, and I must leave as soon as possible. 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:51.600 And actually, I think that was when I started to learn, Oh, 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.760 actually me being uncomfortable in a space might be a 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.560 good sign because it might mean I'm about to learn something. 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.960 And I want to attribute this. That was Mara Ala 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:06.000 Rasai who who helped me understand that and was a 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.439 very very valuable teaching So now when I'm in a 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.959 space and listening to things and I feel uncomfortable, I 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.680 don't think it means I need to bolt or something 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.879 bad's happening. Yeah, maybe something really good it's about to happen. 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:22.800 Yeah, yeah. And I feel like that goes back to 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:27.800 what we started with, this idea of attempting means discomfort 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.359 means yeah, And I love I love that point you 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.399 made that. Actually, whenever we're sharing anything, it's not that 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.600 it's not true, it's that it's not complete. Yes, And 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.400 mostly when we see people say things or share ideas, 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:45.040 it's very rare to have anyone ever share a complete 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.560 idea because that means they would have had to think 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.720 about it from every single vantage point, which is not 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:52.920 even humanly possible. 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.800 It's not possible. It's not possible. And I think Adrian 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.200 Marie Brown, I don't know if you've ever had she's 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.600 she wrote an amazing book which is one of her 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.199 more recent ones were just called Loving Corrections, and she 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:12.560 speaks to kind of exactly this, which is, there's kind 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:17.560 of this like aya that we see online when people 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:22.120 don't attribute something perfectly to someone else or they're missing something, 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:24.719 and it's like, isn't the whole point of this that 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:29.600 we're in conversation And if it's the right person, you 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.800 can see that a good intention is there, then maybe 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.080 we can kind of do it in a way that 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:41.520 doesn't need to be Obviously, there's important time and place 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:47.920 for holding people accountable, but maybe I don't know, attributing 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:50.160 like great, we're all going to help each other, kind 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.000 of pad this out, fill this out. 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.919 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a hard I think that's the 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.080 hard part. It's like, how do you differentiate between holding 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:03.280 someone accountable I'm giving them grace. That's a really interesting 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:05.760 discussion in and of itself, and I don't think I 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.199 have the answer or know exactly what it is, but 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.800 I feel like that's a thought exercises humans that if 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:13.959 we were to do it would actually I don't know 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:14.760 what's your take. 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:21.400 Maybe the grace is attributing good intention, and the accountability 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.040 is the courage it takes to actually say something to 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:29.919 someone because it's such a scary thing to do and 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:34.840 it often requires a lot of emotional labor. And I 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.720 find this a lot as a woman, especially as a 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:42.439 woman who's dating that I will just be like, is 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:46.480 it worth me explaining? Is it worth me explaining this thing? 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.040 Should I just not take the time to do this, 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:54.879 because sometimes I will, really I care about doing it 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.919 kindly and compassionately, and it's very rare for me to 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.399 attribute bad intent to anyone. But you know, sometimes it 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.639 does fall on deaf ears and you're like that text 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:10.919 message took me like forty minutes, like to word perfectly 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.760 or that voice note or whatever. And you're like, is 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.639 this making a difference? Like am I getting through to 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:18.240 any is transformative justice? 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:18.440 Real? 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.800 Like this is this label worth it? But I think 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:24.560 I don't have a perfect answer. 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:25.439 I'm not. 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:28.199 I haven't lived through enough of it to know. I 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:31.080 guess I've just reached a point where it's like I'd 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:35.080 rather I'd rather die trying, I'd rather die having tried. 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:37.600 And maybe some small piece of it, even if it's 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.840 not now, even if it's some future point, like something 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.640 I've said just like goes oh something, but the back 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.160 of my mind here someone says something to me, Then 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:49.120 you know, maybe it's worth it. 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:08.480 When you think about little Lemma, Yes, what was a 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:10.959 childhood memory that you have, a core memory that you 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:14.760 have that you feel has defined who you are today somewhat. 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.160 I think I won't share the specific memory because it's 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:23.040 so personal. But I think I've always felt other people's 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:33.399 pain very intensely, until maybe recently, I did not know 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:41.880 how to give myself grace and navigate seeing my sensitivity 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:47.320 as a strength and knowing that it's like my gift. 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:53.760 But it also means I have to care for it 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:59.000 in specific ways. When you are given gifts, there's often 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:05.640 kind of have to compensate in some other ways. And 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:09.240 in the same way that my position in life and 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:11.960 fame has given me this extraordinary power, it's also given 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:15.439 me a lot of responsibility. And these things often have 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:18.960 these kind of I don't know when or why it started, 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:24.399 but I think I've always whoever it was that was 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:26.560 suffering in the room, I was always the most aware 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:31.960 of them, and I think that has formed a lot 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:34.320 of why I could act. It was almost like I 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:38.159 was kind of sucking all of this in and then 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:42.640 I needed to let it out somewhere or unleash it somewhere. 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:46.439 And I remember when my parents saw me on stage 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:48.919 for the first time. Afterwards, they were just like, where 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:52.879 did that come from? You don't have any of these experiences. 0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:56.000 I recorded a song for my twelfth birthday. My mum 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:58.800 bought me a day in a recording studio, and I 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:02.240 sing Natalie and really torn, like I've had my heartbroken 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:04.840 fifty thousand times, you know, Like I've been married and 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:08.480 divorced and whatever, and I'm twelve. I've never had a 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:11.160 boyfriend and I don't know anything about love. 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:13.600 Have you ever thought about where it came from? More? 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:18.480 I would imagine, I can't say for sure, I would 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:24.640 imagine that my family structure has not been a traditional 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:31.320 family structure, and that feeling of knowing that I'm from 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:35.160 a situation where we just don't quite fit the kind 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:39.320 of nuclear family mold. And I think coming back from 0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:41.479 France and trying to figure out how to sort of 0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:47.879 integrate and being the eldest and having my younger brother 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:52.119 and having my mom and like trying to sort of 0:24:53.280 --> 0:24:57.440 be some sort of glue or holding together for everyone's feelings. 0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:03.520 I'm pretty sure that's probably where it That's where it started. Yeah. 0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:06.720 And then I guess just being aware of other people 0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:09.959 who might feel the way I did, which is like 0:25:10.080 --> 0:25:12.960 who else in here doesn't feel like they quite fit? 0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:16.520 I've always found that it took me a while to recognize, 0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:19.439 but when I did, it was so helpful. That a 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:22.159 lot of what I do today is because I mediated 0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:25.000 my parents' marriage growing on. Yeah, and so I developed 0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:28.080 all these skills of listening and empathy and grace and 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:30.399 compassion because I was doing it for two people that 0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:33.520 I love, Yes, and I see it as a strength, 0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:36.120 and yes, it comes with it comes with certain things. 0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:39.000 For sure, it comes You're absolutely right. But at the 0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:41.200 same time, I've always seen it as a strength. Yes, 0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:44.119 And it's something that has served me well in my marriage, 0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:47.879 it served me well in my relationships. And at the 0:25:47.920 --> 0:25:53.120 same time, it has certain consequences that make you different 0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:56.480 or make you process things differently. And so yeah, And 0:25:56.560 --> 0:25:59.199 I remember one thing you shared with me that I 0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:01.879 was reading it. You said, I used to spend my 0:26:02.400 --> 0:26:05.919 weekdays with Mum and my weekends with dad, and you 0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:09.399 said it almost felt like you were changing costumes sometimes. Yes, 0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:12.760 and they're all like this two lives kind of Yes, Yes, 0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:14.879 And I feel that's so relatable. I feel like so 0:26:14.880 --> 0:26:17.399 many people can relate to that, whether whether their family 0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:20.479 was more traditional or wasn't. I think every child has 0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:23.280 had this feeling of not fitting in quite and knowing 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:25.960 which life they're meant to lead, and that feels like 0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:28.320 it's kind of played into yours. 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:31.600 Yes, for sure. I think it's also why I've had 0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:37.600 to really navigate my relationship towards art and acting, because 0:26:37.600 --> 0:26:41.040 I'm pretty sure that I was using acting as a 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:48.160 way of escaping how painful my parents, Like, it wasn't 0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:50.720 just the divorce, it was just like the continuing situation 0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:55.480 of living between two different houses and two different lives 0:26:55.560 --> 0:26:59.800 and two different sets of values, and as a child, 0:26:59.880 --> 0:27:03.200 like being aware of like, hmm, we don't quite have 0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:05.679 the support we need here for this, like this is 0:27:05.720 --> 0:27:11.239 not quite We're not quite like and I think it 0:27:11.280 --> 0:27:18.240 does it makes you. It made me a slightly serious 0:27:18.440 --> 0:27:22.720 child because I was like, had that consciousness, and then 0:27:22.720 --> 0:27:26.240 when I would go and spend the weekend with my dad, 0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:29.920 it was like a very different set of rules, very 0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:32.960 different situation. And so you do you kind of like 0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:36.560 and I think everyone can relate to this to an 0:27:36.640 --> 0:27:39.639 extent that it's not that you are like wanting to 0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:43.720 become different people, but it's there are different expectations of 0:27:43.840 --> 0:27:45.840 you in different places that you understand that you need 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:49.720 to fill. And so I think some of that split 0:27:50.800 --> 0:27:55.240 then became I was like, Okay, wow, you know my 0:27:55.280 --> 0:27:58.639 parents have very different views on different things. And the 0:27:58.720 --> 0:28:00.359 hard part of that was that no one gave me 0:28:00.359 --> 0:28:03.760 any easy answers. It meant I had to form all 0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:06.960 of my own opinions myself because there was no consensus, 0:28:07.600 --> 0:28:11.080 and it made me a critical thinker for sure, because 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:17.199 and so that was amazing and also really like, gosh, okay, 0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:20.720 I need to decide what I think is important in 0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:23.400 life and what my opinions are. No one's handing me this. 0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:24.480 Yeah. 0:28:24.560 --> 0:28:29.320 Maybe it also made me aware of not wanting to 0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:34.560 be so split as well, and why it's been important 0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:38.240 to me to try to remain whole in all the 0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:41.320 different circumstances of my life and ask myself questions about 0:28:41.320 --> 0:28:44.480 how I can do that best, because I think I 0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:48.200 experienced as a child that the split is painful, Like 0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:52.960 if you're living a reality one way but presenting something else, 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.080 those are the moments when it can you can really 0:28:56.080 --> 0:29:01.560 feel torn apart. And I reco recognized that, and I 0:29:01.600 --> 0:29:04.720 didn't want that to be my life. I didn't want 0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:08.880 pretend to be my real life. 0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:13.640 Yeah, I mean that's so I can so relate to 0:29:13.680 --> 0:29:18.000 you personally on the idea of not having a blueprint 0:29:18.200 --> 0:29:22.000 and having to create my own. And how often when 0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:23.800 you don't have a blueprint, you feel you have two 0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:27.680 choices and that's where you feel torn. Whereas when you 0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:29.320 look at it as a whole and go, okay, well, 0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:32.239 now I get to craft my own narrative from this, 0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:34.280 and I may take a few pieces from here and 0:29:34.320 --> 0:29:36.160 a few pieces from here, and I'm going to form 0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:38.520 my own puzzle. Yeah, but I don't have to choose 0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:42.320 a path. It's really beautiful when you do it, but 0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:45.000 it's really hard in the beginning because it just feels 0:29:45.000 --> 0:29:47.120 like there are two parts. And I wanted to talk 0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:50.120 about how much that's impacted you know, your work, and 0:29:50.160 --> 0:29:52.920 you said there, you said that one thing you mentioned 0:29:52.920 --> 0:29:54.680 that really stood out to me was you felt that 0:29:54.720 --> 0:29:59.480 acting was in some way escaping that kind of which 0:29:59.600 --> 0:30:02.400 version I have to be. And I think so much 0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:04.400 of what we do for work, or so much of 0:30:04.400 --> 0:30:07.360 what we pursue as humans, is based on something we're 0:30:07.360 --> 0:30:12.040 trying to build, create, maybe escape from, maybe to reveal something, 0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:15.000 And I think we haven't often looked at work that way. 0:30:15.040 --> 0:30:16.680 Like sometimes we choose a career because we know it 0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:19.520 will make our parents happy and so we're living a pattern. 0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:22.760 Or sometimes you choose something because it breaks the pattern 0:30:22.800 --> 0:30:25.360 that you were growing up in. And it's fascinating to 0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:27.240 me to look at that. And for you, you were acting 0:30:27.280 --> 0:30:31.200 in school plays since you were a young girl, and 0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:34.320 was acting always something you were going to do or 0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:36.680 do you feel like it was this cross section of 0:30:36.920 --> 0:30:39.600 what was happening in your personal life that actually made 0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:41.479 that feel like the direction you would choose. 0:30:42.040 --> 0:30:44.720 I think it's so interesting that you said those words 0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:48.880 reveal and escape, that they're kind of the same thing, 0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:54.040 because I think that it all started with a poem. 0:30:54.240 --> 0:30:56.640 I did a poetry competition when I was nine, called 0:30:56.640 --> 0:31:01.400 the Daisy Prat Poetry Competition, and actually naturally quite a 0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:05.719 shy person, and so actually for me to stand up 0:31:05.720 --> 0:31:09.080 in front of people feels like an out of body experience, 0:31:09.280 --> 0:31:13.560 like there's so much adrenaline coursing through my veins that 0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:17.480 it does feel like a moment outside of time. And 0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:25.600 I remember the exhilaration of living the kind of ups 0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:30.760 and downs of this poem. And maybe because there wasn't 0:31:32.280 --> 0:31:37.040 space to have conversations or express myself at that time 0:31:37.120 --> 0:31:39.200 in the way that I needed to, I did it 0:31:39.240 --> 0:31:41.880 through performance. And I also did it as a way 0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:47.080 of getting to feel free for a moment of what 0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:51.080 I was like the discomfort of that time of not 0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:54.120 quite knowing who I was or how to be in 0:31:54.160 --> 0:32:03.400 the world. And as I've become more healed and whole 0:32:03.440 --> 0:32:06.320 and more comfortable being myself. It's been interesting to ask 0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:10.000 myself do you still need acting? Do you still need 0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:14.760 to act? Like? Why what are you doing that for? 0:32:15.640 --> 0:32:17.600 And like the kind of it used to feel like, 0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:19.720 almost like a compulsion that I needed to do it. 0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:22.800 And what's really interesting now is I don't feel quite 0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:27.240 that kind of urgency of needing to do it. And 0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:32.200 I wonder if it's because actually I have spaces where 0:32:32.800 --> 0:32:37.560 I can now take some of those feelings and talk 0:32:37.600 --> 0:32:40.040 about some of the things I don't think I had 0:32:40.080 --> 0:32:44.040 space to voice get out doing it on camera in 0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:45.760 one of thousands of people. 0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:49.160 Which is which is scary in its own way. Right, 0:32:49.560 --> 0:32:52.640 It's easy to to think, oh, that makes sense, but 0:32:52.680 --> 0:32:55.640 then it's like, well no, it's it's really challenging to 0:32:55.680 --> 0:32:59.640 do that second part, even if it makes sense rationally. 0:33:00.480 --> 0:33:04.239 And was that what in twenty nineteen when you kind 0:33:04.240 --> 0:33:07.800 of pulled away, was your reason I want to heal 0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:10.160 and work on myself or was it actually I don't 0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:13.400 feel a compulsion anymore, Like was that the inflection point 0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:17.080 of doing some self work or was that the inflection 0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:18.479 point of I need to pause? 0:33:19.040 --> 0:33:22.720 I realized I was drawing on painful stuff in my 0:33:22.800 --> 0:33:25.320 life that I was actually healing, and I didn't want 0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:28.920 to keep revisiting in order to do some of the 0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:33.600 more intense, scarier, sadder things that I had to do. 0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:43.560 I realized I remember by Bath's deathbed, by her graveside 0:33:43.600 --> 0:33:46.360 when we shot those films, like normally, there are like 0:33:46.400 --> 0:33:49.200 these painful memories that I would use for those moments, 0:33:49.200 --> 0:33:52.680 and I realized I was like, I don't know if 0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:57.560 this is super great for me actually to keep revisiting 0:33:57.640 --> 0:33:59.840 these or if I want to use these as my tools. 0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:03.200 And I don't think that means I'll never come back 0:34:03.240 --> 0:34:05.360 to acting. I think it just meant I was like, hmm, 0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:08.279 I wonder if there's a different way to do this. 0:34:09.320 --> 0:34:12.080 I think the second thing was to be really honest. 0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:18.239 I was coming to those sets with an expectation that 0:34:18.280 --> 0:34:21.360 I think I had developed on Harry Potter, which was 0:34:21.400 --> 0:34:23.759 that we were the people I worked with were going 0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:26.440 to be my family, and that we were going to 0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:31.560 be lifelong friends. I came to work looking for friendship, 0:34:32.520 --> 0:34:36.120 and that was a very painful experience for me outside 0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:42.040 of Harry Potter and in Hollywood, like bone breakingly painful, 0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:47.120 because most people don't come to those environments looking for friendships. 0:34:47.280 --> 0:34:51.200 They're looking for this is my chance, this is my role, 0:34:51.840 --> 0:34:54.719 this is what I went out of it. I'm focused, 0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:59.680 this is my job, this is my career, like let go. 0:35:00.800 --> 0:35:05.120 And I was not of that mindset, and so I 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:10.400 found I found the rejection really painful, the friendship rejection. 0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:10.839 Yeah. 0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:14.240 Yeah, of like I really I was, like, I think 0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:17.880 it's so unusual to make a set of films for 0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:22.520 twelve years and we were a community, like we really were. 0:35:22.920 --> 0:35:26.840 And so I took that as an expectation into my 0:35:27.080 --> 0:35:30.600 into my other workplaces, and I just got my I 0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:32.799 just got my ass kicked. I really did. 0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:36.120 Was it competition? Was it envy? Was it just hierarchy? 0:35:36.239 --> 0:35:36.560 Was it? 0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:39.200 I think it was a combination. I was a Molotov 0:35:39.320 --> 0:35:42.720 cocktail of all of the above. As we mentioned earlier. 0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:46.520 I'm just not thick skinned, and maybe I just wasn't 0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:53.040 built for those kinds of highly competitive environments. It Yeah, 0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:53.719 it broke me. 0:35:54.160 --> 0:36:01.759 Yeah, but in a way I'm proud that it did, 0:36:02.040 --> 0:36:05.040 because I guess that means I have something left to break. 0:36:05.200 --> 0:36:11.840 I have a heart left to break. So it was 0:36:11.880 --> 0:36:15.960 a hard learning, but I think there's something that. 0:36:18.760 --> 0:36:20.840 I'm proud of in a way that there were certain 0:36:20.840 --> 0:36:36.480 things I couldn't withstand. I'd much rather keep my humanity 0:36:37.040 --> 0:36:37.960 I'm managining. 0:36:37.800 --> 0:36:43.760 Like inside that's really yeah, no, but I really appreciate 0:36:43.800 --> 0:36:47.480 you saying that, and I mean, it's so powerful to 0:36:47.520 --> 0:36:50.240 hear how you've processed it, like just what you added there, 0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:54.319 because when I saw your voice change and just when 0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:57.440 you expressing it and it and it hit me as 0:36:57.480 --> 0:37:00.840 you said it and I felt it, and then the 0:37:00.840 --> 0:37:04.120 way you reflected on it kind of helped that feeling 0:37:04.200 --> 0:37:08.360 rise really beautifully because what you said is so true 0:37:08.400 --> 0:37:12.360 that if you were broken by a frequency of envy 0:37:12.440 --> 0:37:17.640 and competition and whatever else it was, that's only proof 0:37:17.760 --> 0:37:22.000 that you were vibrating in a way that didn't want 0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:24.000 to be pulled down into that. 0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:27.520 And it's so interesting, though, how when we break to 0:37:27.680 --> 0:37:31.120 those sorts of emotions and ideas, we feel we're the 0:37:31.120 --> 0:37:35.400 weak one, Yeah, when it's completely the opposite. 0:37:35.560 --> 0:37:40.560 That was the most painful thing was I thought I 0:37:41.680 --> 0:37:47.640 beat myself up for years afterwards, really thinking like punishing myself, 0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:52.560 saying you couldn't hack it, you weren't strong enough, And yeah, 0:37:52.840 --> 0:37:56.960 what bliss and what peace? I think to understand that 0:37:59.320 --> 0:38:06.480 two have out on top would have been a greater 0:38:06.719 --> 0:38:11.000 failure I think in terms of who I actually care 0:38:11.120 --> 0:38:12.000 about being. 0:38:12.960 --> 0:38:15.200 Yeah, it's almost like if you abandoned yourself in that 0:38:15.360 --> 0:38:21.040 moment in order to align with that new way of thinking, yeah, 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:24.920 you'd probably beat yourself up more long term and have 0:38:24.960 --> 0:38:25.960 a much more of time. 0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:29.600 Yes, I think. So, I don't know. I've just got 0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:32.040 to this place where it's just if it costs me 0:38:32.200 --> 0:38:36.000 any part of my piece, it's just too expensive. And 0:38:37.239 --> 0:38:42.440 of course, like there's opportunities that I think, wow, like 0:38:42.520 --> 0:38:49.440 that would be amazing, and I care deeply about my work. 0:38:51.600 --> 0:38:54.719 But I think it's just I think I just used 0:38:54.719 --> 0:39:00.520 to completely sacrifice myself for whatever the thing was I 0:39:00.560 --> 0:39:03.960 was trying to achieve. And that could be a grade, 0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:07.359 it could be a movie, it could be promoting. I 0:39:07.440 --> 0:39:11.200 just was obsessed with excellence and doing everything, giving my 0:39:11.320 --> 0:39:12.759 all to everything and doing it to the best of 0:39:12.760 --> 0:39:17.240 my ability. And unless you have the right people around 0:39:17.280 --> 0:39:20.120 you that can hold that kind of level of commitment, 0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:23.920 you're going to get smashed up. You're just going to 0:39:23.920 --> 0:39:26.640 get crushed. And so I think now it's just a 0:39:26.680 --> 0:39:30.200 case of me being like, Okay, I know that for 0:39:30.239 --> 0:39:32.800 me to do anything, I have to have people in 0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:36.960 the room that care about me more than whatever the 0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:39.560 product is or whatever the final product is. And if 0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:43.799 that isn't the case, I cannot be there because I'm 0:39:43.880 --> 0:39:48.440 just someone who like gives it all is how I'm built. 0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:53.759 And I think understanding that makeup of myself and not 0:39:53.800 --> 0:39:58.040 punishing myself for that, but just knowing it needs certain 0:39:58.160 --> 0:40:04.239 kinds of conditions is how I've come to hopefully not 0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:08.120 keep doing it forever and probably every day, but accepting myself. 0:40:09.000 --> 0:40:11.400 Yeah, it seems like I've spoken to so many and 0:40:11.400 --> 0:40:13.120 we were talking about this last week when we were 0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:17.919 speaking on the phone, that I've worked with so many 0:40:18.120 --> 0:40:21.719 young people musicians who've all been told like, all right, 0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:23.239 if you don't do this over the next twelve months, 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:25.480 you're not gonna make it, yeah, or like if you 0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:27.319 don't do this right now, if you don't say yes 0:40:27.360 --> 0:40:30.680 to this song or this movie, it's like you might 0:40:30.680 --> 0:40:32.920 as well wave it goodbye. You're never going to get 0:40:33.000 --> 0:40:35.000 the Oscar or the whatever it may be, or the 0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:38.160 Grammy or whatever it is. And I can't imagine being 0:40:38.160 --> 0:40:41.879 a young person like I'm thirty seven now and it's 0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:45.759 you process ideas like that differently. Yeah, but if you're 0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:51.680 in your teens or even twenties, there's and maybe even thirties, 0:40:51.719 --> 0:40:55.800 but you process those statements with so much gravitas, especially 0:40:55.800 --> 0:40:58.719 when it's someone of influence and power saying it to you. 0:40:58.800 --> 0:41:02.000 And yeah, like being surrounded by people who really believe 0:41:02.040 --> 0:41:05.840 in you and your longevity and your art versus. But 0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:06.720 that's hard to find. 0:41:07.000 --> 0:41:12.160 It is, it's hard to find. And you know, I 0:41:13.880 --> 0:41:17.200 had a wonderful team, like I really did. I think 0:41:17.280 --> 0:41:21.000 it's just like understanding that no one at the end 0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:22.680 of the day is going to be in the room, 0:41:22.920 --> 0:41:25.400 like when you're had me doing the thing. You have 0:41:25.480 --> 0:41:29.200 to carry that moment and you have to carry that pressure. Also, 0:41:29.560 --> 0:41:33.400 making films that hours on them are so demanding that 0:41:33.560 --> 0:41:38.040 to have your own life alongside that, to have that 0:41:38.120 --> 0:41:42.839 balance is almost impossible. It's so all or nothing, it's 0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:45.439 so all encompassing, especially if you're in a lead role. 0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:52.120 You kind of go through these you know, working six 0:41:52.200 --> 0:41:55.560 days a week, fourteen to sixteen hour days, and then 0:41:55.600 --> 0:41:57.040 you're just kind of dropped off at the end of it, 0:41:57.040 --> 0:41:58.680 and maybe you'll have a two or three month gap 0:41:58.719 --> 0:42:01.560 and then there's just kind of like nothing, and so 0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:04.719 you're like riding this like incredible peak of like adrenaline 0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:07.839 and cortisol and then you just get like dropped off 0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:10.680 the edge and they're like, Okay, wait, now I have 0:42:10.719 --> 0:42:12.840 to be a functioning human again, and I have to 0:42:12.920 --> 0:42:15.960 like figure out how to be a person in the 0:42:16.000 --> 0:42:22.960 real world. And I think some of those extremes then 0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:25.719 force an actor to either decide, well, I'm going to 0:42:25.840 --> 0:42:27.920 back to back it, so I'm going to basically go 0:42:28.000 --> 0:42:29.560 from one movie to the next and that's going to 0:42:29.600 --> 0:42:33.960 be my full life. Or you have to navigate these 0:42:34.239 --> 0:42:39.759 huge impacts on your nervous system that you need a 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:41.960 system and a support system to help you navigate. And 0:42:42.000 --> 0:42:50.040 I think it's why addiction and mental illness in my profession, 0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:53.719 and then a lot of high stress, high profile professions 0:42:53.840 --> 0:42:57.959 is so commonplace because you're trying to balance out these 0:42:58.640 --> 0:43:03.240 enormous chemical ups and downs. 0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:06.319 Yeah, talk to people about why, because I think from 0:43:06.360 --> 0:43:09.520 the outside, when someone sees a red carpet, yeah, or 0:43:09.560 --> 0:43:13.000 when someone sees an event, it looks really glamorous. Like 0:43:13.080 --> 0:43:16.680 until I ever attended anything, and you know, I always 0:43:16.719 --> 0:43:18.800 looked at it's like, oh my gosh, it's so glamorous 0:43:18.800 --> 0:43:21.520 and everyone's there and everyone must be friends and everyone 0:43:21.600 --> 0:43:24.560 must know each other because they all, you know. But 0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:26.680 but then you're not saying that, and neither is And 0:43:27.200 --> 0:43:29.600 any time I've ever been on a red carpet, everyone's 0:43:29.640 --> 0:43:33.279 anxious and everyone's nervous, and that's the real experience. And 0:43:33.320 --> 0:43:35.839 people are almost waiting to leave. Yes, and some people 0:43:35.920 --> 0:43:37.879 do the red carpet and leave immediately, But but what's 0:43:37.920 --> 0:43:40.040 going on there? Like walk us through? Like I mean, 0:43:40.200 --> 0:43:41.040 for people who may not. 0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:45.319 I think the first step is to just understand even 0:43:45.360 --> 0:43:48.040 though you're wearing an incredibly glamorous dress and you're there 0:43:48.080 --> 0:43:51.279 to do something exciting. I don't think there's anything that 0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:56.799 can make it not weird that people are screaming at 0:43:56.800 --> 0:44:00.960 the top of their lungs. Like it just everything in 0:44:01.040 --> 0:44:05.920 your body says something's wrong. Like people are screaming, something's wrong. 0:44:06.880 --> 0:44:09.480 But then you have to try to pretend as though 0:44:10.280 --> 0:44:13.440 this is all normal and you're unfazed. So you have 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:16.600 like two things going on. One you're like navigating this 0:44:16.760 --> 0:44:21.239 like sensory overload. That's like telling you, oh my god, 0:44:21.360 --> 0:44:25.759 something is really wrong where you are you Yeah, so 0:44:26.120 --> 0:44:30.279 you're trying to navigate. Okay, something feels wrong, but I 0:44:30.320 --> 0:44:33.440 need to also simultaneously make it seem as though I 0:44:33.480 --> 0:44:36.600 am the most graceful and the most calm I've ever 0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:39.319 been in my whole life. And I need to like 0:44:40.239 --> 0:44:42.799 pose for this person. And there's fifty different cameras and 0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:44.600 I need to make sure that I look perfectly into 0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:47.359 each and every one. And I probably will have had 0:44:47.400 --> 0:44:50.800 four different notes from the stylist about how I'm supposed 0:44:50.840 --> 0:44:52.600 to stand and what I need to do for the dress, 0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:55.880 and then I've got like twenty five different talking points 0:44:55.880 --> 0:44:58.080 from the movie of like what I need to get 0:44:58.120 --> 0:45:02.719 across and also avoid saying or talking about, and so 0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:05.279 like you need to be thinking about that, and the 0:45:05.640 --> 0:45:10.759 juggles crazy, and then I think everyone is in this 0:45:10.880 --> 0:45:15.800 like kind of jumped up state, and so like trying 0:45:15.800 --> 0:45:18.960 to have a normal conversation with anyone is basically impossible 0:45:18.960 --> 0:45:23.239 because you feel like an insane person. And so these 0:45:23.280 --> 0:45:26.359 are not environments in which you like have a nice 0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:28.879 chat with someone. Really. I mean maybe if you're really 0:45:28.960 --> 0:45:31.080 lucky you've worked with someone for a long time and 0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:33.799 you've established and trust. But I think that was the 0:45:33.840 --> 0:45:36.759 other thing that was like really difficult about movies and 0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:39.520 what like I kind of laugh at well, not in 0:45:39.520 --> 0:45:42.560 a mean way, but like, you know, you always get 0:45:42.560 --> 0:45:45.000 asked when you're like promoting these big films like so 0:45:45.080 --> 0:45:46.799 do you guys hang out on set? And like do 0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:48.920 you guys hang out? And like are you all friends? 0:45:49.239 --> 0:45:51.759 And everyone's sort of like nods enthusiastically, But the truth is, 0:45:52.000 --> 0:45:54.000 no one has seen each other outside of work, like 0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:58.200 very very very rarely, mostly because the schedule is insane. 0:45:58.400 --> 0:46:01.120 Everyone's so tired that when you get any time off, 0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:03.120 you're going straight back to your hotel room to try 0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:05.719 to like claw in any piece of rest that you 0:46:05.760 --> 0:46:12.360 possibly can, and like, I don't know, like it, friendships 0:46:12.360 --> 0:46:17.400 require time and trust and presence and those things like 0:46:17.840 --> 0:46:20.920 very rarely come about. They can, and they like do occasionally, 0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:24.759 but it's more of a more of a you know, 0:46:25.000 --> 0:46:30.719 solar eclipse than an everyday situation. So yeah, but you 0:46:30.760 --> 0:46:33.080 have to pretend. I think that's the part that starts 0:46:33.120 --> 0:46:36.239 to feel icky after a while, is that you have 0:46:36.280 --> 0:46:38.880 to pretend that you're all best friends and what's so sad. 0:46:39.200 --> 0:46:41.520 And I know this isn't just the case for me, 0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:44.719 but like I think people wish they were I think 0:46:44.719 --> 0:46:48.160 we wish we did have those real connections and we 0:46:48.200 --> 0:46:51.200 did have that real support. And so having to pretend 0:46:51.440 --> 0:46:54.720 that something exists that you actually really want but don't 0:46:54.760 --> 0:46:59.840 have is like it's like that pretty grainy in the wound, 0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:03.040 you know. It's like it's pretty like tough pill to swallow, 0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:04.960 to have to act out something that you wish were 0:47:05.000 --> 0:47:08.600 real but isn't real. Yeah, And I think that's the 0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:12.000 part that starts to kind of yeah, I can speak 0:47:12.040 --> 0:47:14.440 for myself, but those are definitely the moments for have 0:47:14.480 --> 0:47:19.120 been like this feels dark, like anyone else like this 0:47:19.200 --> 0:47:20.000 feels dark. 0:47:21.960 --> 0:47:26.200 Yeah, And there's such a real reminder that it's still work. 0:47:26.440 --> 0:47:28.759 And it's almost like asking anyone who works at any 0:47:28.800 --> 0:47:30.759 company and saying, hey, do you hang out with your 0:47:30.800 --> 0:47:34.680 team after work every night? And the answer is probably no. Yeah, 0:47:34.880 --> 0:47:37.040 everyone's go home to their family and maybe you've got 0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:38.680 a couple of course, you've got a couple of friends 0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:40.560 at work. And it's wonderful if you have a friend 0:47:40.600 --> 0:47:43.719 at work that you work out with or see after hours, 0:47:43.760 --> 0:47:46.000 but you're not hanging out as the whole crew. It's 0:47:46.160 --> 0:47:50.400 it's very unlikely, and it is that reality check of no, 0:47:50.480 --> 0:47:54.520 but this is also just work. Yeah, and their character 0:47:54.600 --> 0:47:57.840 stories are not their personal stories, and it doesn't And 0:47:57.880 --> 0:47:59.480 that's why I wanted to go back. You mentioned their 0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:02.240 you talked about how Harry Potter had a family feel, 0:48:03.080 --> 0:48:05.080 and I wanted to ask you how did that come 0:48:05.120 --> 0:48:07.960 about in the first what was where did the auditions 0:48:07.960 --> 0:48:09.920 come from? Like, how did that become a part of 0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:10.680 your life? 0:48:11.040 --> 0:48:16.400 Yes, so I did not go to a performing arts school. 0:48:16.600 --> 0:48:20.880 I'd never done anything. I never acted professionally, but they came. 0:48:22.040 --> 0:48:26.760 They did like a basically country wide search to find Harry, 0:48:26.760 --> 0:48:29.919 Harmione and Ron and so they asked my school if 0:48:29.920 --> 0:48:33.680 they wanted to smit any students who loved drama who 0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:37.719 wanted to audition, and so I was one of I 0:48:37.719 --> 0:48:41.120 think about twelve students that was asked if I wanted 0:48:41.120 --> 0:48:44.880 to audition. I don't know, it was weird. I had 0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:51.279 this weird, weighted, fated sense of destiny pretty much from 0:48:51.320 --> 0:48:56.600 the moment that they said they mentioned the audition. I 0:48:56.640 --> 0:49:01.360 remember I brought I think maybe like seven different beanie 0:49:01.360 --> 0:49:04.000 babies with me along and like all these different like 0:49:04.080 --> 0:49:07.920 lucky talismans, and I loved the world and the book 0:49:08.080 --> 0:49:11.279 so much. My dad had been reading them to me 0:49:11.360 --> 0:49:13.359 before bed when I would spend the weekends with him, 0:49:13.400 --> 0:49:15.920 and on long car journeys, we'd often drive back and 0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:19.240 forwards to France, and that's how the time would be passed. 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:25.359 And so I was just like, loved the world, loved Hermione. 0:49:25.560 --> 0:49:29.880 And for me, it wasn't so much about acting so 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:34.240 much as it was that, like I just the books 0:49:34.400 --> 0:49:38.040 meant so much to me personally. 0:49:38.360 --> 0:49:40.080 Did you feel like it was destiny for you or 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:42.000 did it feel like did you always feel like it 0:49:42.080 --> 0:49:44.200 was going to be this? I always think obviously the 0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:46.399 books were already I. 0:49:46.440 --> 0:49:50.319 Always felt like Hermione was. 0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:51.600 I knew. 0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:53.719 I was never auditioning for anything else, like I knew 0:49:53.719 --> 0:49:56.279 it was her. I don't know. I don't know how 0:49:56.280 --> 0:50:02.479 to explain it. Something felt right about it. And yeah, 0:50:02.560 --> 0:50:06.200 my poor parents, because if I hadn't have got it, 0:50:06.560 --> 0:50:09.000 I think they knew her crusher. I ended up doing 0:50:09.200 --> 0:50:11.840 nine auditions over a period of over a year and 0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:14.480 a half, which for a nine year old is a 0:50:15.120 --> 0:50:22.040 massive commitment. But I was. I loved her. I loved it. 0:50:23.120 --> 0:50:23.680 I really did. 0:50:24.800 --> 0:50:26.279 What do you wish now that you would have known 0:50:26.600 --> 0:50:28.400 before you became HERMIONI. 0:50:30.280 --> 0:50:35.440 I did a pretty good job. And I'm actually I 0:50:35.560 --> 0:50:41.120 give my mother specifically credit for this. She was like 0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:47.440 a warrior for my normalcy and for me having an 0:50:47.480 --> 0:50:51.919 ordinary life and going to school, and no one wanted that. 0:50:52.200 --> 0:50:54.839 I mean, it would have been considerably easier if I 0:50:54.880 --> 0:51:02.080 had not continued going to school. But she, Wow, like 0:51:02.160 --> 0:51:05.640 I will forever be in her debt. She somehow knew 0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:12.560 that me feeling part of the ordinary world and feeling 0:51:12.640 --> 0:51:14.920 I had a place in it and that I belonged 0:51:15.600 --> 0:51:17.840 outside of those films was going to be crucial. 0:51:18.560 --> 0:51:20.759 Wow, that's really incredible. 0:51:21.160 --> 0:51:24.520 It was because she basically didn't have anyone on her team. 0:51:24.840 --> 0:51:26.680 She was kind of on her own on that one, 0:51:27.360 --> 0:51:30.960 and she fought tooth and nail. She was like on 0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:34.560 the phone for hours saying she has to sit her exams, 0:51:34.640 --> 0:51:36.680 she has to go back, like she needs to be here, 0:51:36.800 --> 0:51:40.040 she she needs to have some parts of a normal 0:51:40.120 --> 0:51:44.480 childhood and yeah, forever in her dad. 0:51:45.800 --> 0:51:49.920 That's so special to have had that and have those Yeah, 0:51:50.040 --> 0:51:54.000 to have a parent who yeah, you can't see anything 0:51:54.000 --> 0:51:55.640 for yourself, You're yeah, No. 0:51:55.719 --> 0:51:57.919 And to be honest, I didn't really I didn't really 0:51:57.920 --> 0:52:01.000 get it if I'm gonna be I was like, Okay, 0:52:01.920 --> 0:52:05.239 I guess it's important, Like you know, I didn't really 0:52:05.280 --> 0:52:08.840 get it, so I think, yeah, she was amazing. 0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:31.520 When did Emma you? Emma Watson and Hermione and the 0:52:31.600 --> 0:52:35.240 characters that then followed start to get blurred and intertwined 0:52:35.840 --> 0:52:41.880 because that expectation that comes with I remember this and 0:52:41.960 --> 0:52:45.200 I share it because to give it to context to people. 0:52:45.200 --> 0:52:47.319 I was walking down the road with one of my 0:52:47.360 --> 0:52:50.360 friends who's an actor who gets recognized a hundred times 0:52:50.400 --> 0:52:54.799 for every one time I get recommend just and so 0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:56.959 for walking down like this person willet stopped a hundred 0:52:56.960 --> 0:52:59.719 times for pictures and then I'll get stopped once. And 0:53:01.400 --> 0:53:03.520 it was really beautiful because we'd spent a day together 0:53:03.560 --> 0:53:05.560 and that person had been stopped a hundred times, and 0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:07.640 then they've been stopped a couple of times. And then 0:53:07.680 --> 0:53:11.600 they said something to me. They said, Jay, you're really lucky, 0:53:11.640 --> 0:53:14.160 And I said, what do you mean? And and I 0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:16.640 thought they were going to say because I'm anomus to 0:53:16.719 --> 0:53:20.319 some degree, but they didn't. He said to me, he goes, Jay, 0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:23.759 You're really lucky, because he goes when people stop me, 0:53:23.920 --> 0:53:26.160 they stop me for who I play to be and 0:53:26.200 --> 0:53:27.960 when they stop you, they stop you for who you are. 0:53:28.560 --> 0:53:30.840 And it was really encouraging words from some of that 0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:33.600 respect a lot, and I was like, wow, like I 0:53:33.719 --> 0:53:35.719 never thought about it like that. I just I just 0:53:35.840 --> 0:53:39.920 it hadn't hit me how different it was. And because 0:53:40.000 --> 0:53:43.319 I think you just see fame or success or whatever, 0:53:43.360 --> 0:53:46.440 it is this one big bubble of stuff, especially when 0:53:46.440 --> 0:53:47.839 you're not that close to it, you don't know too 0:53:47.920 --> 0:53:50.759 much about it. And it was that conversation that made 0:53:50.760 --> 0:53:53.360 me even be even more personal with everyone that I 0:53:53.360 --> 0:53:56.400 ever spoke to, because they'd always have a personal story 0:53:56.640 --> 0:53:59.719 or And that's not to say that isn't true for 0:53:59.800 --> 0:54:02.319 music and for acting. Of course there is. I don't 0:54:02.360 --> 0:54:04.759 want to take away from no, no, And I'm not 0:54:04.800 --> 0:54:08.080 saying that as an egotistical statement. I'm saying it as like, 0:54:08.200 --> 0:54:12.840 how hard it is for an individual to go through that, Yes, 0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:18.919 and to be disassociated from themselves. Yes, because that role 0:54:18.960 --> 0:54:20.400 could be a part of you, It could be an 0:54:20.400 --> 0:54:22.520 expression of you, It was a part of your life 0:54:22.560 --> 0:54:24.360 at a certain period of time, But of course it 0:54:24.480 --> 0:54:27.680 isn't you. Yes, But does that make any sense? 0:54:27.760 --> 0:54:32.400 I remember when I gave my un speech about heaps 0:54:32.680 --> 0:54:37.080 and about feminism and women's rights, and people started stopping 0:54:37.480 --> 0:54:41.960 me because of things that I had come from me 0:54:42.040 --> 0:54:45.200 and that I had said. It felt like a very 0:54:45.520 --> 0:54:49.400 significant transition for me because for the first time I 0:54:49.440 --> 0:54:51.600 felt like I could look someone in the eye and 0:54:51.719 --> 0:54:53.640 receive and accept something that they were saying, because I 0:54:54.440 --> 0:54:57.400 felt like it actually had something to do with me, 0:54:57.840 --> 0:54:59.959 and I wasn't just kind of a like a cuss 0:55:00.000 --> 0:55:02.719 c stodian of something sacred, which I did take very 0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:05.960 seriously and I still do. But it had been a 0:55:05.960 --> 0:55:09.840 direct transmission from me. And I think that's why writing 0:55:09.880 --> 0:55:12.400 has become so important to me, is because it's a 0:55:12.440 --> 0:55:16.280 way that I can say things directly and that feels 0:55:16.840 --> 0:55:17.560 really meaningful. 0:55:18.080 --> 0:55:20.080 Yeah, I love the word you just use there of 0:55:20.560 --> 0:55:25.400 the difference between being a custodian and you know, direct 0:55:25.440 --> 0:55:28.880 transmission you said, And that's such an interesting way to 0:55:28.920 --> 0:55:31.000 think about it. And I think each and every one 0:55:31.040 --> 0:55:32.920 of us don't want to be known as a lawyer 0:55:33.080 --> 0:55:36.239 or an accountant or a doctor or a like that. Yes, 0:55:36.280 --> 0:55:38.200 that's a part of us, and it's a role we 0:55:38.239 --> 0:55:41.839 play in society, and it of course brings significance and 0:55:42.680 --> 0:55:45.160 value and worth and all of these wonderful things, but 0:55:45.239 --> 0:55:48.080 I think everyone wants to be something beyond that, and 0:55:48.080 --> 0:55:49.880 no one wants to be that in their home, and 0:55:49.880 --> 0:55:52.400 no one wants to be that with their friends, and 0:55:52.640 --> 0:55:54.759 no one no one wants and me included, by the way, 0:55:54.800 --> 0:55:57.440 It's like I try, and me and my one of 0:55:57.440 --> 0:56:00.239 my friends is a well known stand up comic. We 0:56:00.280 --> 0:56:03.360 always joke about how he hates to be asked to 0:56:03.400 --> 0:56:07.320 tell jokes on command. And I try with my friends 0:56:07.360 --> 0:56:12.399 to not say smart, to say thoughtful, revolatory things. Because 0:56:12.400 --> 0:56:14.759 of my friends, I just want to be Like I 0:56:14.760 --> 0:56:17.920 don't want to have to coach someone's marriage or solve 0:56:17.960 --> 0:56:19.800 their thing. I don't want to do that, Like I 0:56:20.400 --> 0:56:22.839 just want to be and and so even for someone 0:56:22.840 --> 0:56:25.359 who loves who is doing direct transmission a lot more 0:56:25.360 --> 0:56:28.359 of the time, even then there's a feeling of, well, 0:56:28.360 --> 0:56:30.279 I don't want to say anything profound in this conversation. 0:56:30.360 --> 0:56:31.520 She put this down. 0:56:32.239 --> 0:56:33.840 I need to put the one down right. 0:56:34.040 --> 0:56:38.640 Yeah, yeah, I think a big piece of me like 0:56:38.880 --> 0:56:42.040 understanding again, like why I needed to take him in 0:56:42.120 --> 0:56:46.680 It is that like even being the person who was 0:56:46.800 --> 0:56:50.280 promoting the work became a kind of role like Emma 0:56:50.320 --> 0:56:56.600 Watson became this like avatar, this this person that I identified with, 0:56:56.640 --> 0:57:00.880 but also kind of didn't. She'd become reproduce so many 0:57:00.920 --> 0:57:05.319 times over and kind of had become so loaded by 0:57:05.719 --> 0:57:08.360 all of this different stuff that she almost felt too 0:57:08.400 --> 0:57:11.719 heavy to carry. Like I kind of was like, I 0:57:11.719 --> 0:57:13.719 don't even know if I can, if I can be 0:57:14.520 --> 0:57:18.080 that bitch anymore. Like I like, you know, I went 0:57:18.160 --> 0:57:20.880 on a date like two years ago, and like it 0:57:20.960 --> 0:57:23.960 was the best confession ever. But I was like messaging 0:57:23.960 --> 0:57:25.600 this person they were like Emma, and he was like, 0:57:25.600 --> 0:57:28.240 can I just say something like Emma, Watson makes me anxious? 0:57:28.400 --> 0:57:33.160 And I was like, Watson makes me anxious too, on 0:57:33.200 --> 0:57:37.520 the same page, like I get it, Like I can't 0:57:37.600 --> 0:57:40.160 even be her. I don't know how to be her 0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:43.439 live up to what I look like on the cover 0:57:43.480 --> 0:57:47.080 of a magazine. I don't look like that. I can't. 0:57:47.520 --> 0:57:49.840 I don't know. I don't even know how to touch 0:57:50.680 --> 0:57:54.640 what that person's become. It's kind of a funny realization 0:57:54.760 --> 0:57:57.400 at some point where it's like I need to step 0:57:57.400 --> 0:58:01.480 off this thing because I just once you've I don't know. 0:58:01.560 --> 0:58:05.760 There's such a glamorization that comes hand in hand with 0:58:05.840 --> 0:58:08.440 being a public famous person, especially if you're a woman, 0:58:09.160 --> 0:58:14.040 Like I feel so envious of my male co stars 0:58:14.040 --> 0:58:15.919 who can just put on a T shirt and show 0:58:16.000 --> 0:58:20.920 up without like this ps like whole rigmarole of kind 0:58:20.960 --> 0:58:26.400 of becoming acceptable enough to be on camera and ah, 0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:29.800 like kudos to Pamela Anderson recently and just like doing 0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:32.960 the thing, because it's like the amount of courage it 0:58:32.960 --> 0:58:34.880 will have taken to do that, Like I cannot even 0:58:34.960 --> 0:58:43.400 begin to express to you, it's wild. The expectations are insane, 0:58:43.760 --> 0:58:44.680 it's impossible. 0:58:45.640 --> 0:58:50.280 So on vacation, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:58:50.480 --> 0:58:55.280 Just the beauty expectations are so difficult to reach and 0:58:55.320 --> 0:58:57.920 the bar gets raised all the time, so it's like 0:58:58.880 --> 0:59:02.800 you're on this constantly, Like I don't know, it's like 0:59:03.160 --> 0:59:09.760 some sort of like Survivors Island Games Show beauty nightmare 0:59:10.200 --> 0:59:13.640 where you know, I don't know, it's it's it's nuts. 0:59:14.000 --> 0:59:17.720 So I yeah, I think part of also not feeling 0:59:17.760 --> 0:59:21.880 like and Watson is just like the whole like glam 0:59:21.960 --> 0:59:26.440 squad culture of it all is it's sentense. 0:59:29.200 --> 0:59:32.280 Yeah, it's so fascinating because there's almost like this this 0:59:32.440 --> 0:59:37.120 learning of becoming you know, becoming Emma Watson, becoming you know, 0:59:37.240 --> 0:59:39.440 being all the roles you play, and then it almost 0:59:39.440 --> 0:59:41.720 feels like what you're saying is there was a moment 0:59:41.760 --> 0:59:45.280 you wanted to step off and unlearn what that meant total. 0:59:45.880 --> 0:59:52.400 But that seems really hard, Yes, because yes, learning it 0:59:52.440 --> 0:59:55.280 was hard enough, and then to unlearn it when it's 0:59:55.320 --> 1:00:00.920 linked to your work, your finances, your work, your friendship, 1:00:00.920 --> 1:00:04.920 community connection, all of the where you live, how do 1:00:05.000 --> 1:00:09.280 you even begin to unlearn? Being Emma Watson, it's noted ball. 1:00:09.400 --> 1:00:12.320 You have to sort of unravel very carefully. 1:00:11.920 --> 1:00:13.320 And carefully, that's it. 1:00:13.480 --> 1:00:15.560 Yeah, yeah, I think it's. 1:00:15.360 --> 1:00:17.920 Not like a wrecking ball, like you're not just I. 1:00:17.880 --> 1:00:21.280 Mean, some things had to be done like the wrecking ball, honestly, 1:00:21.960 --> 1:00:24.800 and then some parts of it were like a much slower, 1:00:25.120 --> 1:00:28.800 more gentle teasing out. But I mean, I don't know 1:00:28.840 --> 1:00:32.240 if you find this, but I imagine that a lot of 1:00:32.240 --> 1:00:36.160 your friendships are made through the podcast and made through 1:00:36.160 --> 1:00:41.080 your work, and there's kind of this like non separation 1:00:41.160 --> 1:00:43.840 between your home and your family and your relationship and 1:00:43.840 --> 1:00:48.160 the podcast. But tied into that, there's also like the 1:00:48.320 --> 1:00:51.320 very real some people will be wanting you to reference 1:00:51.360 --> 1:00:54.920 their new book or like promote something for them or whatever, 1:00:54.960 --> 1:00:58.480 and like navigating that so many of these threads are entwined. 1:00:59.120 --> 1:01:02.400 Does it ever start to feel like, wow, this is 1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:05.040 a lot people ask me all the time. Do you 1:01:05.080 --> 1:01:09.440 ever wonder why people want to hang out with you 1:01:09.520 --> 1:01:12.920 or be your friend or whatever? And does that ever 1:01:12.960 --> 1:01:14.280 get complicated for you? 1:01:15.840 --> 1:01:20.600 I think because my direct transmission is so clear that 1:01:20.800 --> 1:01:24.560 if anyone in the industry wants to connect, yeah, there's 1:01:24.720 --> 1:01:29.760 usually quite a distinct journey that they're on that mine 1:01:30.600 --> 1:01:34.840 can support or help with as a friend or in 1:01:35.200 --> 1:01:38.560 a more formal capacity, and that I deeply enjoy and 1:01:38.560 --> 1:01:42.040 I'm grateful for because people are not inviting me out 1:01:42.080 --> 1:01:46.160 to crazy parties, and I'm happy they're not. They're not. Yeah, 1:01:46.240 --> 1:01:51.840 they don't think I'm just a clipping the other day 1:01:51.840 --> 1:01:54.640 of Austin Butler saying he's he does He's never been 1:01:54.640 --> 1:01:58.800 invited to a bachelor party. I can't believe it, but 1:01:59.000 --> 1:02:00.640 that that kind of feel like, I don't get invited 1:02:00.640 --> 1:02:02.840 to crazy parties, and I'm grateful for that. I don't know, 1:02:02.960 --> 1:02:05.760 it's not really a part of my life unless it's 1:02:05.800 --> 1:02:09.680 a spiritual party and then I'm all game. But there 1:02:09.720 --> 1:02:12.320 isn't that, And so sometimes I think it's a good 1:02:12.680 --> 1:02:16.040 my direct transmission is a good protective mechanism because I 1:02:16.080 --> 1:02:18.400 don't really get asked to come to things. But then 1:02:18.440 --> 1:02:20.360 at the same time, it takes me to get to 1:02:20.360 --> 1:02:22.320 know someone deeply. Like I just traveled with a friend 1:02:23.080 --> 1:02:25.960 to Greece and we played and I don't think they 1:02:25.960 --> 1:02:28.080 were anticipating this, but we played three nights of poker 1:02:28.080 --> 1:02:30.680 from midnight to seven am and it was amazing and 1:02:30.720 --> 1:02:32.560 I loved it and I had the best time. And 1:02:32.600 --> 1:02:35.000 I don't think they expected me to do that. They 1:02:35.000 --> 1:02:36.560 expect me to get to bed early. But I was 1:02:36.560 --> 1:02:39.400 on vacation and I was like, I'm a game, yeah exactly, 1:02:39.480 --> 1:02:41.600 and I'm one. So I was like, you know, I'll 1:02:41.640 --> 1:02:43.480 take it. And I'm very competitive in that way, and 1:02:43.520 --> 1:02:46.440 I enjoy it. And so I think what it is 1:02:46.480 --> 1:02:48.880 for me is I think there's a big thing for 1:02:49.000 --> 1:02:53.480 me has been from I grew up as part of 1:02:53.520 --> 1:02:58.680 a big community in London, yeah, and the big spiritual 1:02:58.720 --> 1:03:00.800 community that I became a part of when I was young. 1:03:01.520 --> 1:03:04.040 And I think that what I've found is it's very 1:03:04.080 --> 1:03:07.400 difficult to discern for people externally and even for people 1:03:07.440 --> 1:03:09.640 in that community as to how close they were to 1:03:09.720 --> 1:03:12.920 me right, And so there are some people that assume 1:03:13.080 --> 1:03:14.840 that because we sat in a class together and there 1:03:14.880 --> 1:03:17.400 were two hundred people in the class, but now that 1:03:17.440 --> 1:03:20.280 their opinion on me or that their relationship with me 1:03:20.440 --> 1:03:23.400 is close, when in actuality, I've never had a one 1:03:23.440 --> 1:03:26.200 to one conversation with that person, and so now their 1:03:26.240 --> 1:03:29.840 opinion matters to the outside world, it matters to the media, 1:03:29.880 --> 1:03:32.680 it matters to whatever. But I actually don't know that 1:03:32.680 --> 1:03:35.720 person and they don't really know me. It's just so 1:03:35.800 --> 1:03:39.040 that we went to the same congregation in that same year, 1:03:39.160 --> 1:03:42.280 which has lots thousands of people in it, and so 1:03:42.320 --> 1:03:44.440 I struggle with that. And then I also struggle with 1:03:45.240 --> 1:03:46.720 people coming up to me and saying, oh, Jay, I've 1:03:46.760 --> 1:03:48.720 known you for twenty years and you know, like from 1:03:48.800 --> 1:03:50.760 back in the day of the Temple. But I'm like, 1:03:50.840 --> 1:03:54.520 we didn't, like, we didn't ever have a conversation. And 1:03:54.560 --> 1:03:56.440 I still have all my best friends from that community 1:03:56.560 --> 1:03:59.720 that are still my closest friends. Yeah, and they also 1:04:00.040 --> 1:04:02.320 feel the same way because they see it. And so 1:04:02.520 --> 1:04:06.200 I think I find that very difficult. True is hard 1:04:06.200 --> 1:04:08.240 to navigate because it's not that I don't have positive 1:04:08.240 --> 1:04:11.040 feelings towards people or the community or anything I do. 1:04:11.640 --> 1:04:15.880 But I struggle with people feeling they know me when 1:04:15.960 --> 1:04:19.600 they never did, right, but they've almost created a story 1:04:19.640 --> 1:04:22.360 within their mind that they really knew me well. And 1:04:22.400 --> 1:04:25.280 because it was a big community. This isn't a group 1:04:25.320 --> 1:04:27.680 of school friends or something which I'm still really close with. 1:04:27.680 --> 1:04:30.440 It's more of this expanded community which you were just 1:04:30.560 --> 1:04:34.600 visible in, right, not even audible or if that makes 1:04:34.600 --> 1:04:35.440 any sense, No. 1:04:35.320 --> 1:04:38.320 That makes perfect sense. I think, Yeah, being part of 1:04:38.360 --> 1:04:42.000 a larger community would be true here to navigate with. Yeah, 1:04:42.880 --> 1:04:45.480 with the kind of I guess like being a famous 1:04:45.480 --> 1:04:49.160 person in essences, like lots of people can project lots 1:04:49.200 --> 1:04:51.640 of things onto you, and like if they had some 1:04:51.840 --> 1:04:53.560 level of contact with you, it makes those kinds of 1:04:53.560 --> 1:04:56.320 protections a lot easier. And then you're like, oh, wow, 1:04:57.000 --> 1:04:59.520 we're in a completely different like your experience that this 1:04:59.640 --> 1:05:00.720 is so different from mine. 1:05:00.920 --> 1:05:03.760 Yeah, yeah, and yeah, and I mean yours is like 1:05:03.800 --> 1:05:07.600 a million xter and you know, I can't imagine. I 1:05:07.640 --> 1:05:09.600 can't I can't imagine. I can't imagine how a hard 1:05:09.680 --> 1:05:11.840 dating is, Like you talked about in some of the 1:05:12.440 --> 1:05:14.920 reflections that you see, like this idea is just like 1:05:16.000 --> 1:05:19.720 dating is hard as a twenty or old thirty year 1:05:19.760 --> 1:05:24.200 old woman anyway. Yeah, and then to add your life 1:05:24.280 --> 1:05:26.600 to it. Yeah, talk to me. You've referenced it a 1:05:26.680 --> 1:05:29.480 couple of times in conversations you've had, Like, what does 1:05:29.520 --> 1:05:31.560 it feel like when you're having a normal conversation and 1:05:31.600 --> 1:05:36.000 someone goes, wait a minute, you're yeah, Hermione Granger, Emma Watson, 1:05:36.800 --> 1:05:37.560 you know, a list goes on. 1:05:37.640 --> 1:05:40.280 Yeah, yeah, I mean it does. It does feel like 1:05:40.320 --> 1:05:45.320 my avatar enters the room unexpectedly all of a sudden, 1:05:46.120 --> 1:05:49.560 and then I'm like navigating a completely different conversation if 1:05:49.600 --> 1:05:53.040 someone hasn't figured out that it's me yet, and that 1:05:53.080 --> 1:06:00.120 can feel really dehumanizing and sometimes quite kind of of 1:06:01.240 --> 1:06:04.600 seeing someone's like behavior like completely switch and turn and 1:06:04.680 --> 1:06:10.600 change can be kind of a jarring experience. I think 1:06:11.160 --> 1:06:14.080 what's nice is at the very least like dating for 1:06:14.240 --> 1:06:20.200 everyone is is basically a complete disaster and free for all, 1:06:20.320 --> 1:06:22.440 So like, I feel like I'm in good company in 1:06:22.480 --> 1:06:27.160 that sense. But I think it's funny. Occasionally people will 1:06:27.200 --> 1:06:30.280 apologize to me for the fact they've not seen my films, 1:06:30.800 --> 1:06:34.760 and I will be like, please don't apologize. That is 1:06:35.400 --> 1:06:38.160 bliss to me. Like music, to my ears that like, 1:06:38.840 --> 1:06:41.600 you're not going to constantly be navigating and me also 1:06:41.680 --> 1:06:45.240 navigating with you. This projection of me or this Emma 1:06:45.280 --> 1:06:48.479 Watson avatar person will not be this ghost in the room. 1:06:49.080 --> 1:06:52.120 So that's happened a few times where people have been like, 1:06:52.520 --> 1:06:58.240 I'm really sorry, please apologize, I'm so ry, I'm so 1:06:58.360 --> 1:07:02.680 incredibly relieved, and then the box later on, Yeah, I 1:07:02.760 --> 1:07:06.240 hope not. I mean, I guess, like I want people 1:07:06.240 --> 1:07:10.840 to appreciate my work, but I think knowing you don't 1:07:10.880 --> 1:07:14.120 have to navigate that extra like degree of weirdness is 1:07:15.800 --> 1:07:16.960 helpful relief. 1:07:17.160 --> 1:07:18.919 How do you help people get to know the real 1:07:19.000 --> 1:07:20.640 you at this stage in your life? 1:07:21.000 --> 1:07:24.200 You know, I wrote this play that I actually sent 1:07:24.240 --> 1:07:26.440 to you to read, but I actually read parts of 1:07:26.480 --> 1:07:33.000 it to people because I find that trying to explain 1:07:33.920 --> 1:07:37.920 sometimes how weird it is to be me, like I 1:07:37.960 --> 1:07:42.960 almost need aids, like it's not it's so difficult to 1:07:43.040 --> 1:07:48.120 convey like how weird it is and how surreal sometimes 1:07:48.240 --> 1:07:51.120 that I sometimes be like, can I just, like weed 1:07:51.160 --> 1:07:53.160 do this thing I wrote because I think it's going 1:07:53.200 --> 1:07:57.160 to shortcut you somewhere. And so that's actually been incredibly 1:07:57.200 --> 1:07:59.440 helpful and I'm I'm so glad I went and did 1:07:59.440 --> 1:08:03.840 this this Creative Writing masters and have spent more time 1:08:03.880 --> 1:08:07.920 writing about my experiences because sometimes I can't even articulate 1:08:07.960 --> 1:08:10.720 it to myself, Like how how are you supposed to 1:08:10.720 --> 1:08:12.960 explain to me? Does someone else you can't really even 1:08:13.040 --> 1:08:19.120 understand for yourself. So I think writing creative writing making 1:08:19.280 --> 1:08:24.799 art has been the best therapy I've ever done, because 1:08:24.840 --> 1:08:27.840 it's helped me get clarity and also just being able 1:08:27.880 --> 1:08:32.160 to laugh at myself and laugh at the situation. I 1:08:32.160 --> 1:08:34.519 think one on one therapy can be amazing, but like 1:08:35.080 --> 1:08:37.240 there is a kind of intensity and a seriousness to 1:08:37.280 --> 1:08:42.120 that that maybe when you're writing something down. And when 1:08:42.160 --> 1:08:43.639 I wrote the Player, I wrote it for my friends 1:08:43.680 --> 1:08:45.880 and family, and I was able to kind of be 1:08:46.320 --> 1:08:49.240 more my bring more of myself to the picture in 1:08:49.240 --> 1:08:53.360 a way, which is someone who's like this is just nuts, 1:08:53.520 --> 1:08:56.040 Like I just can't, Like I can't sometimes I just 1:08:56.120 --> 1:09:00.599 genuinely cannot believe that my life is my life, and 1:09:02.320 --> 1:09:04.080 I make the place I can put that. 1:09:04.760 --> 1:09:09.160 Yeah, I loved so just for everyone who's you know, 1:09:09.200 --> 1:09:12.680 hearing about the referencing of this play, Emma wrote a 1:09:12.720 --> 1:09:17.240 play which helped her closest friends and family understand her 1:09:17.320 --> 1:09:21.639 experience of life. Basically, Yeah, right, is that a bad description? 1:09:22.320 --> 1:09:24.600 No, no, it's not a bad description. But like, specifically, 1:09:24.720 --> 1:09:28.240 I wrote the play about me transitioning from basically being 1:09:28.240 --> 1:09:33.120 a full time actress an activist to try to move 1:09:33.200 --> 1:09:37.960 home and like be a normal student and attend a 1:09:38.000 --> 1:09:44.719 normal university as a super famous person. And I basically 1:09:44.840 --> 1:09:47.680 kept a journal of what those experiences were like and 1:09:47.800 --> 1:09:50.439 chronicled them for my friends and family for about a 1:09:50.520 --> 1:09:53.599 year and then performed it as a one woman show 1:09:53.880 --> 1:09:55.720 at the end of the first year and handed that 1:09:55.760 --> 1:10:00.719 in as my first year piece of work. And yeah, 1:10:00.960 --> 1:10:07.760 yeah it got a distinction. It actually did not that 1:10:07.760 --> 1:10:10.439 that was the point, but it kind of wasn't the point. 1:10:10.479 --> 1:10:13.080 But I think the coolest thing was was, like I 1:10:13.160 --> 1:10:15.320 read it from my roommate, for example, he's believing me 1:10:15.320 --> 1:10:17.519 for seven years, and he was like, we alway stop 1:10:17.520 --> 1:10:20.360 sorselves as well. He's like, is this actually how you feel? 1:10:20.439 --> 1:10:23.240 Like do you actually feel this? And I was like, yeah, 1:10:23.280 --> 1:10:25.439 I wouldn't have written it if I didn't, And he 1:10:25.520 --> 1:10:28.320 was like, I had no idea that this was how 1:10:28.360 --> 1:10:30.840 you felt, And this is someone I live with and 1:10:30.920 --> 1:10:33.880 so for me, who I perceived myself to be this 1:10:34.000 --> 1:10:38.000 like massive open book, and actually I realized I was like, Wow, 1:10:38.840 --> 1:10:40.960 I think I'm doing a good job of bringing the 1:10:40.960 --> 1:10:44.080 people that I love along with me on what this 1:10:44.160 --> 1:10:49.479 feels like. And actually I'm not saying nearly enough or 1:10:49.520 --> 1:10:52.400 explaining it in a way where it makes sense. And 1:10:52.520 --> 1:10:57.559 so even my parents were just like, I couldn't believe it. Really, yeah, I'm. 1:10:57.479 --> 1:11:00.040 Sure they were brought to tears by parts of it. 1:10:59.479 --> 1:11:02.280 I was so moved by it, and I really hope 1:11:02.280 --> 1:11:06.400 you do one day make it a production in some capacity, 1:11:06.439 --> 1:11:10.599 because it was so moving and so powerful, and honestly, 1:11:10.640 --> 1:11:17.040 it was what every public figure has ever tried to 1:11:17.080 --> 1:11:21.520 explain to me about their experience, yet put so succinctly, 1:11:21.640 --> 1:11:24.599 powerfully and meaningfully that anyone could relate to it. And 1:11:24.640 --> 1:11:30.160 I think anyone, meaning anyone who's ever felt misunderstood, loved 1:11:30.200 --> 1:11:32.599 for what they have and not who they are, seen 1:11:32.800 --> 1:11:35.960 for parts of themselves and not all of themselves. And 1:11:36.560 --> 1:11:39.400 I really believe it would be such a service to 1:11:39.439 --> 1:11:42.200 everyone to share it one day, in however way you 1:11:42.320 --> 1:11:45.760 decide to, because honestly, I was gripped, I was completely 1:11:45.760 --> 1:11:48.360 captivated I couldn't put it down. I feel like I'm 1:11:48.360 --> 1:11:50.240 going to read it again and again and again. It's 1:11:50.240 --> 1:11:52.920 not something that I think you read once. Not only 1:11:53.000 --> 1:11:55.599 are you a brilliant writer, but it is so true 1:11:55.760 --> 1:11:59.400 and honest and for everyone who's listening and watching. I 1:11:59.439 --> 1:12:03.479 think the from it for me is that your therapy 1:12:04.800 --> 1:12:08.840 could turn into something creative. That when you shared that 1:12:08.880 --> 1:12:11.000 with me when we were speaking on the phone, I 1:12:11.080 --> 1:12:15.479 was so in awe of that. That therapy in one 1:12:15.479 --> 1:12:17.400 to one setting or in whatever way of healing you 1:12:17.520 --> 1:12:20.479 believe in, if it turns into something you have to 1:12:20.520 --> 1:12:25.519 put together to communicate to others, that's the revelation. Like 1:12:25.560 --> 1:12:31.240 the revelation is in that process, not in the listening, telling, share, speaking. 1:12:31.520 --> 1:12:33.320 That's great and that's a part of it, but if 1:12:33.360 --> 1:12:35.360 you can go one step ahead. 1:12:35.640 --> 1:12:40.920 Truly, I feel this urgency and like desperation to communicate 1:12:41.040 --> 1:12:44.800 this specific piece, which is like make art about your experiences, 1:12:44.880 --> 1:12:49.040 like the neurosis of being a writer or anyone making anything. 1:12:49.040 --> 1:12:51.680 It's like I don't have anything valuable to say. It's 1:12:51.720 --> 1:12:55.280 all been said before. This is so self indulgent, This 1:12:55.320 --> 1:12:59.120 is so narcissistic. Who even wants to hear this, this 1:12:59.200 --> 1:13:03.720 is bad. I thought all of those thoughts, probably most 1:13:03.840 --> 1:13:08.320 days as I wrote this. But trust me, like whatever 1:13:08.360 --> 1:13:11.000 you think people know about you, or they know about 1:13:11.040 --> 1:13:13.880 your life or how you feel about it, they don't. 1:13:14.320 --> 1:13:19.640 And they need you to write poems, write songs, make pictures, 1:13:20.120 --> 1:13:24.479 write plays. And you don't need to be someone with 1:13:24.920 --> 1:13:28.360 the title of an artist to be able to do that. 1:13:28.439 --> 1:13:31.240 You really don't. And in fact, I have to write 1:13:31.240 --> 1:13:33.559 on my mirror. I haven't written on my door I 1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:37.120 am an artist because I don't think anyone feels like 1:13:37.160 --> 1:13:41.080 they deserve that title. I've been making films and writing 1:13:41.080 --> 1:13:43.200 and making arts since I was nine years old, and 1:13:43.240 --> 1:13:45.160 I don't feel like I deserve that title, and I 1:13:45.200 --> 1:13:46.720 have to work at it all the time to feel 1:13:46.760 --> 1:13:49.879 like I have anything that's worthwhile saying. I really understand 1:13:49.880 --> 1:13:53.639 the struggle. I really really do. But there is something 1:13:53.680 --> 1:13:59.599 about doing it and like having a physical thing, because 1:13:59.600 --> 1:14:02.160 I think so many of these thoughts and feelings live 1:14:02.200 --> 1:14:05.800 in our heads and it's not a great place for 1:14:05.840 --> 1:14:09.040 them to live. They need to come out somewhere, and 1:14:09.720 --> 1:14:14.280 once you can put them somewhere, then you're free being 1:14:14.439 --> 1:14:17.240 understood or feeling like you're understood. By the people around 1:14:17.280 --> 1:14:22.439 you has got to be the best feeling in the world. 1:14:22.600 --> 1:14:25.840 And I think it's what we're looking for when we 1:14:27.640 --> 1:14:29.720 do so many things, but often that's not the way 1:14:29.760 --> 1:14:33.880 to find it. And I just, god, yeah, if I 1:14:33.960 --> 1:14:35.720 honestly I want to go to every person in the 1:14:35.720 --> 1:14:37.920 street and be like, you need to write a one 1:14:38.520 --> 1:14:40.880 person show about your life and then perform it for 1:14:40.920 --> 1:14:43.000 your friends and family, or like you need to like, 1:14:43.840 --> 1:14:46.960 you know, paint the thing, write the song, like, just 1:14:47.080 --> 1:14:49.960 do it, because it's kind of one of the best 1:14:50.000 --> 1:14:53.320 most meaningful things I've done. Yeah, trying to make sense 1:14:53.360 --> 1:14:55.120 of sense of it all. 1:14:55.240 --> 1:14:57.639 Yeah, And I love that you did it for your family. 1:14:57.680 --> 1:14:59.280 Like that's the part that proves to me when you 1:14:59.320 --> 1:15:02.040 say the message you of make your art and you 1:15:02.040 --> 1:15:04.040 know you don't need to be a full time actor 1:15:04.120 --> 1:15:06.960 or a director or movie filmmaker. It's like you actually 1:15:07.000 --> 1:15:09.200 lived that part. And that's what I love about it 1:15:09.240 --> 1:15:12.240 the most, is that you didn't make it for a 1:15:12.280 --> 1:15:14.759 stage or a movie or a documentary or whatever. 1:15:15.400 --> 1:15:17.759 And honestly, first I wrote it for myself. I didn't 1:15:17.760 --> 1:15:19.759 think I honestly, I didn't think I had the guts 1:15:19.800 --> 1:15:21.840 to read this aloud. To anyone. I thought it was 1:15:22.000 --> 1:15:24.400 just for me and maybe like two other people and 1:15:24.439 --> 1:15:27.320 performing it for my I didn't even invite my family 1:15:27.800 --> 1:15:30.240 until like two days before, because I just didn't think 1:15:30.240 --> 1:15:33.599 I had the courage make art for people you love, 1:15:33.920 --> 1:15:37.240 like make beautiful things for people that you love, just 1:15:37.280 --> 1:15:40.920 for people that you love. Like That's one I guess, 1:15:40.920 --> 1:15:43.280 like I had the extraordinary experience of making things for 1:15:43.400 --> 1:15:46.200 like the world basically from such a young age, and 1:15:46.240 --> 1:15:50.120 I never made anything that I didn't feel like needed 1:15:50.120 --> 1:15:54.240 to be shared publicly. And I remember when I made 1:15:54.240 --> 1:15:56.479 Little Women. I mean, that's such an amazing thing about 1:15:56.600 --> 1:15:59.120 Louise Maelcot is that really she wrote these stories for 1:15:59.160 --> 1:16:03.760 her sisters. So many people's journeys and paths start because, yeah, 1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:05.799 out of love, they wrote them for just one person. 1:16:05.960 --> 1:16:07.880 There was a certain point I remember in my life 1:16:07.880 --> 1:16:10.519 where I was like, right, I'm done with university now, 1:16:10.520 --> 1:16:12.439 and now I'm going to just like focus full What 1:16:12.479 --> 1:16:14.640 I should be doing is just focusing full time on 1:16:14.800 --> 1:16:17.400 being an actress and you know, doing all of that. 1:16:17.520 --> 1:16:23.280 And I had completely missed actually that emma, the academic emma, 1:16:23.320 --> 1:16:27.519 the student emma, the person that needs to needs to 1:16:27.560 --> 1:16:32.479 constantly be learning things facilitated my ability to be a 1:16:32.520 --> 1:16:36.519 famous person and in Hollywood, and that without her I 1:16:36.560 --> 1:16:40.759 actually couldn't do it. I needed, I need to have both, 1:16:41.240 --> 1:16:43.800 and that when one gets stripped away. And like, even 1:16:43.880 --> 1:16:45.640 as I and explore this in the player as well, 1:16:45.640 --> 1:16:48.280 it's like, even as I have returned to some form 1:16:48.320 --> 1:16:52.320 of normalcy, ordinary life, whatever that looks like to me now, 1:16:52.960 --> 1:16:57.000 like I also can't kill her off completely, you know, 1:16:57.080 --> 1:17:00.240 my public person, there's parts of me that like still 1:17:00.280 --> 1:17:03.439 does need those outlets and to do those things too, 1:17:03.520 --> 1:17:05.920 And I'm figuring out what those are. But I think 1:17:05.920 --> 1:17:09.760 that's what's so complicated about being humans, is it's yes 1:17:09.920 --> 1:17:13.320 and not either or it's we need we need to 1:17:13.360 --> 1:17:16.160 be all of ourselves so that we can do the 1:17:16.200 --> 1:17:19.439 extraordinary things that we what we want to do. Maybe 1:17:19.439 --> 1:17:23.519 it's about not leaving parts of ourselves behind, like kind 1:17:23.520 --> 1:17:27.559 of finding a way to keep threading the tapestry all 1:17:27.560 --> 1:17:27.880 of it. 1:17:28.800 --> 1:17:30.880 Yeah, I think that's I mean, you've you've said it 1:17:30.960 --> 1:17:33.320 so well, and I really feel that that's what it's 1:17:33.320 --> 1:17:35.519 been for me. It's I feel like it's humans were 1:17:35.600 --> 1:17:37.640 very good at being like, Okay, this chapter of my 1:17:37.680 --> 1:17:40.639 life is over. Yeah, and we do it because labeling helps. 1:17:40.680 --> 1:17:42.880 But it's like you went from being a toddler, yes, 1:17:43.120 --> 1:17:45.960 or an infant, and then you became you know, a teen, 1:17:46.000 --> 1:17:47.840 and then a young adult and then an adult and 1:17:47.880 --> 1:17:50.439 then so we have all these labels yeah, and it 1:17:50.479 --> 1:17:53.240 almost feels like we live our life that way. It's like, Okay, 1:17:53.280 --> 1:17:55.840 I was a student at university. If I went to university, 1:17:56.560 --> 1:17:59.480 and now I have a job and I'm an employee 1:17:59.600 --> 1:18:02.519 or an art whatever it is, and labels are useful, 1:18:02.560 --> 1:18:04.320 so I'm not going to say they aren't. But what 1:18:04.439 --> 1:18:06.720 ends up happening is you start labeling phases of your 1:18:06.720 --> 1:18:09.280 life yes, which means now there isn't a yes, and 1:18:09.920 --> 1:18:12.879 it's an either raw. So it's like I was an actress, 1:18:12.960 --> 1:18:15.479 now I'm going to be an academic and it's like, well, no, 1:18:15.560 --> 1:18:19.920 I'm an academic and an actress and whatever else you know, 1:18:20.439 --> 1:18:22.559 And I think that's what it's been for me. It's 1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:25.799 like I know that the people that know me best 1:18:25.920 --> 1:18:28.160 will say, Jay, I love you because we can talk 1:18:28.200 --> 1:18:31.760 about spirituality. We can talk about business, and we can 1:18:31.760 --> 1:18:34.800 talk about communication, media art, and I love you because 1:18:34.800 --> 1:18:36.759 we can do all those three things in one day 1:18:37.040 --> 1:18:39.559 and I'm like, yes, I feel so seen. Yeah, if 1:18:39.680 --> 1:18:42.120 someone only said one of those things, I'd feel so limited. 1:18:42.160 --> 1:18:45.559 And what I've realized is I'm now at a place 1:18:45.560 --> 1:18:47.879 where I've given myself permission to be all of myself, 1:18:48.320 --> 1:18:51.040 even if others don't give me permission to be all 1:18:51.080 --> 1:18:54.280 of those things. Yes, because yeah, And. 1:18:54.240 --> 1:18:57.360 How amazing to get to that point where I realized 1:18:57.360 --> 1:19:00.679 for a long time I was pushing for I need 1:19:00.720 --> 1:19:03.679 everyone to understand me, and I need them to understand 1:19:03.720 --> 1:19:05.640 these decisions, and I need them to understand that I'm 1:19:05.680 --> 1:19:08.240 all of these things. And I'm like, but do you really, Emma, 1:19:08.360 --> 1:19:10.080 do you actually really need them to get it? Always 1:19:10.160 --> 1:19:13.360 enough that you get it, you see it and understand it, 1:19:13.439 --> 1:19:16.040 and you're making it possible and giving yourself permission to 1:19:16.080 --> 1:19:18.479 do that. And I think once I kind of let 1:19:18.600 --> 1:19:24.160 go of like, okay, it matters way more that I 1:19:24.280 --> 1:19:29.120 accept myself than that I spend so much energy and 1:19:29.160 --> 1:19:31.360 time trying to force other people to see these things 1:19:31.400 --> 1:19:34.080 about me. And then paradoxically, of course, once you let go, 1:19:35.840 --> 1:19:39.440 people start getting it, which is which is funny. 1:19:40.400 --> 1:19:43.439 Emma, how do you how do you see love today? God? 1:19:43.520 --> 1:19:52.280 What a great question, Oh, I see love today. Oh okay, 1:19:52.560 --> 1:19:54.200 I think I have an answer with this. How exciting 1:19:54.200 --> 1:19:57.680 I was right there for and I was like, I 1:19:57.720 --> 1:20:06.080 do am I that deep? Yeah? Okay, So I think that, oh, 1:20:06.240 --> 1:20:10.320 we don't talk about love nearly enough, or I think 1:20:10.400 --> 1:20:12.360 we need to talk about it so much more, because 1:20:13.920 --> 1:20:17.559 I had such a not a misunderstanding, but I think 1:20:17.960 --> 1:20:20.080 I had a very limited understanding of it for a 1:20:20.120 --> 1:20:23.639 long time, which was that we see in Disney movies 1:20:23.720 --> 1:20:26.400 and in Hollywood movies, this idea that like falling in love, 1:20:26.960 --> 1:20:29.320 once it sort of happened to you, it's like irreversible, 1:20:29.360 --> 1:20:31.240 you know, like step into this pottle that you can't 1:20:31.240 --> 1:20:35.919 get out of anymore because you've fallen in love. And actually, 1:20:36.720 --> 1:20:38.559 I think falling in love might be quite easy to 1:20:38.600 --> 1:20:41.960 do in some ways. That's sort of the easy bit. 1:20:42.080 --> 1:20:45.120 The hard part is finding someone who actually wants to 1:20:45.120 --> 1:20:48.960 be in a dance with you and be in some 1:20:49.120 --> 1:20:55.320 form of partnership with you, and things like can you argue? Well, 1:20:55.640 --> 1:20:58.840 can you be? Is the conflict that you have generative? 1:20:59.600 --> 1:21:03.360 And can you make someone else feel safe? Like? And 1:21:03.479 --> 1:21:05.720 when I say safe, I don't mean like as of 1:21:05.760 --> 1:21:09.800 physical danger, I mean like, can you either respond to 1:21:09.800 --> 1:21:12.519 a text message quickly enough that doesn't send the other 1:21:12.600 --> 1:21:15.559 person into like a complete free fall and or not 1:21:15.680 --> 1:21:19.640 pelt them with so many that they feel completely overwhelmed 1:21:19.680 --> 1:21:24.200 and flooded. And like that kind of like compatibility and 1:21:24.240 --> 1:21:27.960 that kind of willingness to be in this like is 1:21:28.000 --> 1:21:30.120 this okay for you? Does this feel good to you? 1:21:30.200 --> 1:21:31.679 This is how it feels for me? And like there's 1:21:31.720 --> 1:21:33.800 like that constant back and forth and that constant check 1:21:33.800 --> 1:21:38.759 in is like a game of chicken in a way 1:21:39.000 --> 1:21:42.320 of like can you find someone who's willing to be 1:21:42.560 --> 1:21:46.880 as vulnerable? Is it necessarily requires, I think, to like 1:21:46.960 --> 1:21:51.360 figure out those micro adjustments until you're sort of in 1:21:51.439 --> 1:21:55.519 some kind of dance with someone else. And that is 1:21:55.560 --> 1:21:58.160 a very different understanding that I have come to of 1:21:58.160 --> 1:22:01.799 what love is than I have. I mean, like loving 1:22:01.920 --> 1:22:05.240 someone is so much more complex than the projections that 1:22:05.280 --> 1:22:09.120 we put on someone or even like just lusting or 1:22:09.160 --> 1:22:14.000 having some small feeling for someone else. But I just 1:22:14.080 --> 1:22:17.400 think that we have such a black and white idea 1:22:17.600 --> 1:22:23.479 about what love is supposed to be. And I wish 1:22:23.479 --> 1:22:27.719 I'd understood more before I went into battle. I do, 1:22:28.000 --> 1:22:47.960 I really really do? What do you think love is? 1:22:48.080 --> 1:22:50.679 Jane, Oh wow, Oh my gosh, you're fliving this back. 1:22:52.280 --> 1:22:56.920 That's a conversation. Does any of what I've said resonate? 1:22:57.120 --> 1:22:57.439 It does? 1:22:57.520 --> 1:23:00.280 It does resonates on the right track, Jake, I need 1:23:00.320 --> 1:23:00.880 you to tell me. 1:23:02.840 --> 1:23:04.840 I think it resonates a lot. I grew up in 1:23:04.920 --> 1:23:09.400 a I grew up with a very film naive Disney 1:23:09.479 --> 1:23:10.559 version of what love was. 1:23:10.640 --> 1:23:10.880 Yeah. 1:23:10.960 --> 1:23:13.400 I love that version of love, yeh. I love the 1:23:13.479 --> 1:23:19.839 idea that love was this really romantic, really sweet, writing 1:23:19.920 --> 1:23:22.240 letters every day you kind of love like that. That's 1:23:22.280 --> 1:23:24.160 the love I dreamed of, and love I thought of 1:23:24.160 --> 1:23:27.880 as a kid at least. Yeah, And then you know, 1:23:27.960 --> 1:23:31.400 I think, I realize that you do all of that 1:23:31.560 --> 1:23:33.720 with the first person you're with in your teens, and 1:23:34.040 --> 1:23:36.240 you kind of think it's the real thing. But then 1:23:36.720 --> 1:23:39.479 they're in a mood every night for no reason, and 1:23:39.520 --> 1:23:41.360 you're just people pleasing and trying to figure out what's 1:23:41.360 --> 1:23:43.040 going on, and you think it's all about making that 1:23:43.080 --> 1:23:46.280 person happy, and so you mold and you bend, and you, 1:23:46.280 --> 1:23:49.160 you know, sabotage parts of yourself. And I realized very 1:23:49.240 --> 1:23:53.439 quickly that that wasn't love. And I think what's really 1:23:53.439 --> 1:23:57.559 interesting about love now is that marrying my wife, who 1:23:57.640 --> 1:23:59.439 I've been with now for twelve years and married for 1:23:59.560 --> 1:24:01.519 nine and so it's the longest time I've ever spent 1:24:01.560 --> 1:24:05.200 with anyone, and also the only person I've been with 1:24:05.240 --> 1:24:07.840 after I left the monastery, and so there's been a 1:24:07.880 --> 1:24:10.120 certain chapter of my life that I've been with her 1:24:10.160 --> 1:24:14.000 for and I really feel she's taught me more about 1:24:14.040 --> 1:24:18.640 love for two reasons. The first is she doesn't subscribe 1:24:18.680 --> 1:24:21.800 to any of the movie Disney versions of love. 1:24:22.120 --> 1:24:25.400 Wow, oh my god, what education did she have? 1:24:27.280 --> 1:24:30.760 Literally? And the other part is that I think she's 1:24:30.840 --> 1:24:34.400 the only person I've ever loved enough to be taught by, 1:24:35.520 --> 1:24:39.280 which is like a really interesting part of love that 1:24:39.320 --> 1:24:44.280 I think's missed. And I feel like love is the 1:24:44.400 --> 1:24:48.360 humility to feel. It's humility on both parts because the 1:24:48.360 --> 1:24:53.760 other person's not actively teaching and you're actively receiving. So 1:24:53.800 --> 1:24:57.439 it's this really strange dance between It's almost like if 1:24:57.439 --> 1:25:01.679 you're dancing, there has to be on both sides, because 1:25:02.320 --> 1:25:05.000 it's not that one person leads and the other person follows. 1:25:05.200 --> 1:25:06.920 It's the other person's kind of like should we do this? 1:25:06.960 --> 1:25:10.360 Should we try this? There's an anxiety and a humility 1:25:10.400 --> 1:25:13.280 and requesting that, and the other person gets to choose 1:25:13.320 --> 1:25:15.439 to go with it or not go and say no, 1:25:15.479 --> 1:25:17.760 we're going to go in this direction. And that's a 1:25:17.800 --> 1:25:19.960 great dance to watch. And I feel like with my wife, 1:25:20.560 --> 1:25:24.920 she's never directly taught me, but she's challenged me in 1:25:25.000 --> 1:25:28.280 ways that if other people would ever might have left. 1:25:28.400 --> 1:25:30.120 Oh my god, how beautiful. 1:25:29.720 --> 1:25:33.559 And so why am I staying? And then you go, Okay, 1:25:33.640 --> 1:25:37.040 I'm staying because there's love. And so love is the 1:25:37.080 --> 1:25:44.360 ability to be taught without teaching and learning without feeling 1:25:44.400 --> 1:25:48.120 like you're being led or misled, and that for me 1:25:48.200 --> 1:25:52.360 has been a really beautiful lesson. And if I just 1:25:52.400 --> 1:25:53.960 said this to my wife out loud right now, she 1:25:54.000 --> 1:25:57.560 would just laugh because she'd just find it funny. And 1:25:57.640 --> 1:26:01.160 then she's yeah, she she also taught me how to 1:26:01.160 --> 1:26:02.960 love me for who I was and not what I had. 1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:05.960 Because I think a lot of men go through this, 1:26:06.040 --> 1:26:07.800 at least men that I'm friends with them that I've 1:26:07.840 --> 1:26:12.439 spoken to that we want people to respect us for 1:26:12.520 --> 1:26:16.720 our success, yes, and revere us for our accomplishments. It's 1:26:16.760 --> 1:26:19.880 how men have been adored since the beginning of time 1:26:20.040 --> 1:26:23.840 for going out and getting the food or going out 1:26:23.880 --> 1:26:27.720 there and winning the battle or conquering a nation, and 1:26:27.760 --> 1:26:30.639 that's what you were known for. And so my wife's 1:26:30.680 --> 1:26:32.920 been with me since before my career took off and 1:26:32.960 --> 1:26:36.240 I had any success, and I think as I gained success, 1:26:36.280 --> 1:26:38.559 I think my immaturity was to want her to love 1:26:38.600 --> 1:26:41.879 me for that more and she never did. She didn't 1:26:41.920 --> 1:26:46.160 do it, wow, and it drove me crazy. And she 1:26:46.200 --> 1:26:48.240 didn't do it in a rejecting way or in a 1:26:49.120 --> 1:26:52.599 in a it just didn't make a difference to her. 1:26:53.120 --> 1:26:55.400 And it took me a long time to wrap my 1:26:55.400 --> 1:26:57.920 head around that and realize, because you know, those are 1:26:57.960 --> 1:27:00.840 the times when you could start like other people who 1:27:00.840 --> 1:27:03.920 love you for you have achieved and what you have 1:27:04.040 --> 1:27:05.759 built and all the rest of it. And I think 1:27:06.040 --> 1:27:07.600 I just have so much respect. 1:27:07.240 --> 1:27:09.559 For her that you never gave in on that. 1:27:09.640 --> 1:27:11.840 Yeah, she never gave in, and she helped me love 1:27:11.920 --> 1:27:13.800 myself for who I am. And I think that's the 1:27:13.840 --> 1:27:16.640 point that I think I would have if I had 1:27:16.680 --> 1:27:19.240 met someone else, I would have valued myself for very 1:27:19.240 --> 1:27:22.599 different reasons. And knowing you're with someone who truly is 1:27:22.720 --> 1:27:26.000 with you because of who you are and your character, 1:27:26.080 --> 1:27:28.920 and that's what they honor and I think that word 1:27:28.960 --> 1:27:32.080 honor and respect probably the last thing i'd say. I 1:27:32.080 --> 1:27:34.599 think we always say like love is respect and based 1:27:34.640 --> 1:27:35.280 on respect. 1:27:35.400 --> 1:27:39.679 But I wrote a list of things that I tried 1:27:39.720 --> 1:27:41.960 to be clear with myself about what it is I 1:27:42.000 --> 1:27:45.639 was really looking for and I really want And one 1:27:45.800 --> 1:27:47.559 is someone that I can learn from. So it's really 1:27:47.600 --> 1:27:51.360 interesting that you said learning without teaching, teaching without learning 1:27:51.439 --> 1:27:53.519 and that kind of reciprocal. I really want to be 1:27:53.560 --> 1:27:56.599 with someone that I can learn learn from, and I 1:27:56.640 --> 1:27:59.240 hope that yeah, as you say, has the humility to 1:27:59.280 --> 1:28:01.920 be willing to learn from me. But the other thing is, 1:28:02.880 --> 1:28:04.880 I think it's why I was so obsessed with the 1:28:04.920 --> 1:28:09.200 musical Hamilton and why say people have But like maybe 1:28:09.200 --> 1:28:12.120 this is it's so funny that we're on the Purpose podcast, 1:28:12.160 --> 1:28:15.960 but like, are you with someone who because obviously what 1:28:16.000 --> 1:28:19.559 you have with someone is wonderful, right, like what you 1:28:19.760 --> 1:28:23.439 two share together, But if you can be in service 1:28:23.720 --> 1:28:26.160 of a vision that you both share, or at the 1:28:26.240 --> 1:28:29.320 very least, are you willing to honor and give dignity 1:28:29.400 --> 1:28:32.040 to the work of the other person and whatever their 1:28:32.160 --> 1:28:35.040 vision or mission is in this world, that to me 1:28:35.080 --> 1:28:40.640 seems far more sustainable than anything else, And so I 1:28:40.640 --> 1:28:43.320 guess my big hope or wish would be that I 1:28:43.360 --> 1:28:47.160 met someone who feels like what I want to do 1:28:47.240 --> 1:28:49.519 in the world. Yes, that I'm important, but they also 1:28:49.560 --> 1:28:52.640 feel that what I'm here to do is important to 1:28:52.680 --> 1:28:55.559 them too, and in some way inter sex with what 1:28:55.680 --> 1:28:56.400 they're here to do. 1:28:56.840 --> 1:28:58.920 I couldn't agree more. It's exactly what I was going 1:28:59.000 --> 1:29:01.599 to say, is it. Yeah that I think the word 1:29:01.680 --> 1:29:04.519 respect and relationships thrown around a lot, but this is 1:29:04.560 --> 1:29:07.920 the deepest form of respect. Where there's a famous quote 1:29:08.000 --> 1:29:09.840 that I don't know who said it, but there's a 1:29:09.920 --> 1:29:11.559 and I would you know, you could take the genders 1:29:11.600 --> 1:29:13.840 out of it now, but there's a famous quote that 1:29:13.840 --> 1:29:19.759 says men marry women hoping they'll never change, and women 1:29:20.320 --> 1:29:24.360 marry men hoping they can change them. And to me, 1:29:24.600 --> 1:29:29.120 wanting someone to never change or wanting to be able 1:29:29.160 --> 1:29:34.680 to change someone are both signs of disrespect, because I 1:29:34.720 --> 1:29:37.680 think the greatest respect you can have is to respect 1:29:37.720 --> 1:29:41.400 what this person values in this moment and how that evolves, 1:29:41.800 --> 1:29:45.360 and that's their purpose. They're offering their values and at 1:29:45.360 --> 1:29:47.360 no point that you're trying to change them. And I've 1:29:47.360 --> 1:29:50.439 talked about this often where my wife and I. I 1:29:50.479 --> 1:29:52.439 do this exercise with couples when I'm working with them, 1:29:52.439 --> 1:29:55.200 but I've also done it in our relationship. And I 1:29:55.240 --> 1:29:58.439 ask people to rank their top three priorities in order, 1:30:00.000 --> 1:30:02.200 and people do it privately and then they share them. 1:30:02.960 --> 1:30:08.320 And so generally one person will put themselves first, their 1:30:08.360 --> 1:30:12.599 partner second, and then the kids third, and the other 1:30:12.640 --> 1:30:15.519 person will put the kids first, the partner second, and 1:30:15.560 --> 1:30:18.519 themselves third. And the person who put themselves third is 1:30:18.520 --> 1:30:20.880 always mad at the person who put themselves first, because 1:30:20.880 --> 1:30:24.120 there's this friction of well, wait a minute, how can 1:30:24.120 --> 1:30:26.320 you not put the kids first? Or how can you 1:30:26.360 --> 1:30:28.439 not put family first? Or whatever it may be in 1:30:28.479 --> 1:30:31.280 your given situation, And the other person's like, well, if 1:30:31.320 --> 1:30:33.840 I don't put myself first, then what can I give 1:30:33.880 --> 1:30:37.040 to you all? And that kind of displays this dichotomy 1:30:37.040 --> 1:30:40.200 and this belief we have around love means complete sacrifice, 1:30:40.200 --> 1:30:42.960 and love means self sabotage to some degree, or love 1:30:43.000 --> 1:30:45.960 means putting yourself aside, and the reality is, actually, no, 1:30:46.120 --> 1:30:48.599 my goal is to make sure that you live your 1:30:48.640 --> 1:30:51.800 purpose and greatest vision of yourself, and your purpose is 1:30:51.800 --> 1:30:53.599 to help me do that. When we both do that, 1:30:54.680 --> 1:30:58.639 everything's poetry, and my wife practice that and she does 1:30:58.680 --> 1:31:01.360 it naturally, and it's hard to do that in a 1:31:01.400 --> 1:31:05.360 world that constantly reminds you both that sometimes the other 1:31:05.400 --> 1:31:09.479 person isn't where you are, or you know, the idea 1:31:09.520 --> 1:31:12.519 of why haven't you had kids yet? Or when are 1:31:12.560 --> 1:31:14.759 you going to be in the same country for longer 1:31:14.800 --> 1:31:17.840 than a month, or whatever they may be, because it 1:31:17.880 --> 1:31:21.960 doesn't fit into the norm of what relationships look like. 1:31:22.680 --> 1:31:24.200 And I was thinking about that with you as well, 1:31:24.320 --> 1:31:26.680 Like you know, I know you you talked about how 1:31:26.720 --> 1:31:28.719 getting asked the question when are you getting married? 1:31:28.960 --> 1:31:29.200 Yeah? 1:31:29.240 --> 1:31:32.800 Or why ain't you married? Yeah? Yes, And there's something 1:31:32.880 --> 1:31:36.360 every woman's hearing. Well, what's your reaction when you hear that? 1:31:36.720 --> 1:31:38.880 I'm just so happy not to be divorced yet, Like 1:31:39.560 --> 1:31:42.200 that sounds like a really negative answer, but I just 1:31:42.280 --> 1:31:46.280 like I think that we are. We're being pressured and 1:31:46.520 --> 1:31:53.920 forced into this thing that, like I believe is a 1:31:54.000 --> 1:31:57.080 kind of miracle. I might never be worthy of it. 1:31:57.439 --> 1:32:00.880 I hope it happens to me, but like I don't 1:32:00.880 --> 1:32:04.040 feel entitled to it, like it will either be part 1:32:04.080 --> 1:32:10.519 of my purpose here and my destiny or it won't. 1:32:11.120 --> 1:32:14.960 And I think the way we treat it as though, well, 1:32:14.960 --> 1:32:19.559 why haven't you, And this is something that has to 1:32:19.600 --> 1:32:23.799 happen in this certain time span and at a certain 1:32:23.840 --> 1:32:26.479 age in this kind of way. Is like the least 1:32:26.640 --> 1:32:31.040 romantic thing I can possibly think of, Like truly, like 1:32:31.520 --> 1:32:35.520 if I had tried to get married any point basically 1:32:35.600 --> 1:32:40.680 before about a year ago, it would have been carnage. 1:32:41.160 --> 1:32:46.240 I just didn't know myself well enough yet. I didn't 1:32:47.280 --> 1:32:51.439 have a clear enough idea of what my purpose, my vision, like, 1:32:51.520 --> 1:32:53.840 how I was going to be of service. I didn't 1:32:53.920 --> 1:32:56.920 know where I really felt like I needed to be. 1:32:57.640 --> 1:33:00.479 I think I have some of those answers now, so 1:33:00.520 --> 1:33:03.120 when I meet someone, I can say, Hi, I'm emma, 1:33:03.720 --> 1:33:05.800 this is what I care about, this is where the 1:33:05.840 --> 1:33:08.000 people I love the most live, this is where it's 1:33:08.080 --> 1:33:10.920 meaningful for me to be in the world. And then 1:33:10.960 --> 1:33:15.680 they can decide whether they can see that there's a 1:33:15.760 --> 1:33:18.519 way that I can serve what they're trying to do 1:33:18.680 --> 1:33:21.280 and they can serve what I'm trying to do. But 1:33:21.360 --> 1:33:25.120 before that they would have just got like a very 1:33:25.160 --> 1:33:27.280 mixed signal. I mean, there's some parts of me that 1:33:27.320 --> 1:33:31.599 have stayed utterly consistent, but there are some parts that 1:33:31.760 --> 1:33:34.719 like I was really still teasing out and figuring out. 1:33:34.760 --> 1:33:37.639 And I think it's such a violence, and it's such 1:33:37.640 --> 1:33:42.320 a cruelty on people, and especially young people, I think, 1:33:42.880 --> 1:33:45.880 to make and especially women, to make them feel like 1:33:45.920 --> 1:33:49.280 they have no worth or like they haven't succeeded yet 1:33:49.320 --> 1:33:54.400 in life because they haven't forced to its culmination something 1:33:54.439 --> 1:33:59.880 that I just don't think can or should ever be forced. 1:34:00.360 --> 1:34:04.800 It's something that like, honestly, I feel like I've had 1:34:04.840 --> 1:34:07.160 to earn, I've had to work for to be in 1:34:07.160 --> 1:34:09.519 a place where I feel like I can look someone 1:34:09.560 --> 1:34:11.280 in the eye and be able to tell them who 1:34:11.320 --> 1:34:15.559 I am and to have some idea and it will 1:34:15.640 --> 1:34:17.960 change and grow of what I want and what I'm 1:34:18.000 --> 1:34:22.720 here to do. That takes work, Like I have, like 1:34:24.080 --> 1:34:29.439 really sat with myself in a lot of discomfort and 1:34:29.520 --> 1:34:31.920 asked myself a lot of very difficult questions. To be 1:34:31.960 --> 1:34:34.640 at that point, it hasn't happened to me yet. 1:34:34.880 --> 1:34:38.080 I do think everyone's worthy of love, But I like 1:34:38.160 --> 1:34:40.719 I and I don't think that's what you're saying either. 1:34:40.800 --> 1:34:46.439 Yeah, I guess maybe like partnership or marriage, I guess 1:34:46.520 --> 1:34:49.040 is what we're both saying is like almost a different game, 1:34:49.400 --> 1:34:53.360 like it's it's almost a different playing field actually, like 1:34:53.439 --> 1:34:56.360 actually co joining and like properly sharing your life with 1:34:56.720 --> 1:35:00.680 someone and being in partnership with them seems like it's 1:35:00.720 --> 1:35:01.280 its own thing. 1:35:01.920 --> 1:35:04.759 It is. It takes so much work, and it takes 1:35:04.760 --> 1:35:11.520 so much adjustment and adapting more than compromising and sacrificing. 1:35:12.320 --> 1:35:16.800 There's so much flexibility, there's so much allowing. It's so 1:35:17.000 --> 1:35:21.479 different at different times, Like sometimes patience looks like being 1:35:21.640 --> 1:35:26.600 by that person's side and saying nothing, and sometimes patients 1:35:26.640 --> 1:35:30.960 means being halfway across the world and not communicating, and 1:35:31.000 --> 1:35:35.760 sometimes patients looks like talking and listening, Like you know, 1:35:35.800 --> 1:35:39.520 it's patients doesn't look like one thing over a lifespan. 1:35:39.640 --> 1:35:42.160 And there are parts of my wife that have stayed 1:35:42.200 --> 1:35:44.080 exactly the same in twelve years, and there are parts 1:35:44.080 --> 1:35:48.599 that have completely changed. And I have a choice every 1:35:48.640 --> 1:35:52.800 time that happens, to learn to love the new or not. 1:35:53.120 --> 1:35:55.240 And that's a choice I have to make and she 1:35:55.320 --> 1:35:57.920 has to make as well. And so there's so much 1:35:58.040 --> 1:36:02.360 constant choosing and cont evolving that it's very easy to 1:36:02.520 --> 1:36:04.880 just it's very easy to be like I chose them 1:36:05.000 --> 1:36:06.920 the day we got married, And people always asking me 1:36:06.920 --> 1:36:09.680 that I'm like, I don't think I even knew who 1:36:09.720 --> 1:36:13.680 my wife was married. I think about it, it was 1:36:13.720 --> 1:36:17.080 like I loved her, but I had no idea, And 1:36:17.479 --> 1:36:19.800 that's what it should feel like. I didn't think if 1:36:19.840 --> 1:36:22.080 I was here to say, like, yeah, the wedding day 1:36:22.200 --> 1:36:23.559 was one of the best days of my life, but 1:36:23.600 --> 1:36:26.800 it's not the day I loved my wife the most. Yeah, 1:36:26.880 --> 1:36:30.400 because I didn't really even know what I was getting 1:36:30.400 --> 1:36:31.000 myself into. 1:36:31.280 --> 1:36:36.599 It's amazing. I was thinking recently about trust and telling 1:36:36.640 --> 1:36:42.679 the truth, and I realized the scary, crazy thing about 1:36:43.439 --> 1:36:46.120 it seems to me about intimacy is that it seems 1:36:46.120 --> 1:36:49.559 to be conditional on your ability to keep telling the 1:36:49.640 --> 1:36:53.280 truth and perhaps even revealing deeper and deeper and deeper 1:36:53.320 --> 1:36:58.479 truths at the risk that that truth might mean that 1:36:58.479 --> 1:37:02.160 that person might not continue to choose you. Yes, So, 1:37:02.400 --> 1:37:05.320 even though you've been in this relationship for twelve years, 1:37:05.760 --> 1:37:09.400 like every day, you have to choose to risk it 1:37:09.560 --> 1:37:13.479 all if you want there to be continued intimacy by 1:37:13.560 --> 1:37:17.400 continuing to tell your truth to this other person. And 1:37:17.439 --> 1:37:20.519 that seems so courageous to me, Like, in order for 1:37:20.560 --> 1:37:23.680 there to be genuine and connection and closeness you have 1:37:23.760 --> 1:37:26.439 to be willing to risk it all sometimes or like 1:37:26.560 --> 1:37:30.240 probably almost constantly, and that it seems like it takes 1:37:30.320 --> 1:37:34.160 so much courage because we don't like change. We don't 1:37:34.160 --> 1:37:37.040 want things to change. So you also want a relationship 1:37:37.040 --> 1:37:39.800 that's alive and still living and breathing and not some 1:37:39.960 --> 1:37:41.360 like dead thing. 1:37:41.840 --> 1:37:44.640 Yeah, so well said. And what you're saying is like 1:37:44.680 --> 1:37:49.320 that feeling of when you're not actually being truthful consistently. 1:37:49.920 --> 1:37:52.120 That's when we feel people have had big changes in 1:37:52.160 --> 1:37:56.600 their life because if you had the consistent truthfulness, the 1:37:56.720 --> 1:38:00.000 change felt more smooth and gradual, Whereas when the change 1:38:00.280 --> 1:38:03.880 came like you know, a wrecking ball, where I have 1:38:04.000 --> 1:38:06.559 this feeling and I'm just telling you it it's because 1:38:06.560 --> 1:38:09.000 I didn't tell you about all the little, the little 1:38:09.000 --> 1:38:12.479 incremental changes and sometimes you don't know it's even happening. 1:38:12.560 --> 1:38:14.960 So it's not your fault or this is not something 1:38:15.000 --> 1:38:17.080 that you can say has to be the case. But 1:38:17.800 --> 1:38:19.879 I think that's why being more truthful and more honest, 1:38:20.560 --> 1:38:24.719 more regularly and consistently allows for the change to feel 1:38:24.760 --> 1:38:27.679 more gradual. It's almost like going back to your dance analogy, 1:38:27.760 --> 1:38:29.760 like if you're about to throw someone up in the 1:38:29.800 --> 1:38:32.240 air and catch them. Yes, there has to have been 1:38:32.280 --> 1:38:36.040 a touch or a preparation before someone just grabs hold 1:38:36.080 --> 1:38:38.439 of you and throws you in the air. And it's like, well, 1:38:38.439 --> 1:38:41.720 I would have liked to warning, yes. And that's why 1:38:41.880 --> 1:38:45.400 your analogy is so good, because it's you would throw 1:38:45.439 --> 1:38:46.960 someone up in a dance at some point if you 1:38:47.000 --> 1:38:49.560 were both talented and gifted enough. But there would have 1:38:49.600 --> 1:38:51.360 been a preparation. There would have been a nod, there 1:38:51.360 --> 1:38:53.360 would have been a look, a feel, a touch or 1:38:54.240 --> 1:38:57.360 to set that up. And like one of the hardest 1:38:57.400 --> 1:38:59.799 questions you talked about asking answer it asking yourself difficult, 1:38:59.840 --> 1:39:01.400 ques and I want to ask you something about that. 1:39:01.479 --> 1:39:04.559 But one thing I've said to my wife is, if 1:39:04.560 --> 1:39:06.880 you ever fall out of love with me, please tell me, 1:39:07.400 --> 1:39:09.639 because I don't want to live a day without love. 1:39:10.240 --> 1:39:13.000 I'm really confident about the fact that I'm worthy of 1:39:13.040 --> 1:39:15.280 love and that I want to experience love in my life. 1:39:15.720 --> 1:39:17.439 If you ever fall out of me, just tell me 1:39:17.520 --> 1:39:22.559 it's okay, because I don't have the desire to stay 1:39:22.560 --> 1:39:27.040 somewhere for any other reason. And it sounds risky saying 1:39:27.080 --> 1:39:28.840 that and extreme, but to me, it's a greater risk 1:39:28.920 --> 1:39:31.760 to have spent ten extra years with someone and then 1:39:31.760 --> 1:39:33.320 they tell me I haven't really loved you for the 1:39:33.400 --> 1:39:35.680 last five ten years. And then I'm like, I've lived 1:39:35.720 --> 1:39:37.880 without love for ten years in my life and I 1:39:37.880 --> 1:39:40.040 don't want to be in that place because I've seen 1:39:40.439 --> 1:39:42.760 people go through that and not be happy. And so 1:39:43.640 --> 1:39:47.320 it does come with a humility and a openness to 1:39:47.479 --> 1:39:52.840 have very difficult conversations and not to force something that, oh, 1:39:52.840 --> 1:39:54.519 it's been going to get great for twelve years, it 1:39:54.560 --> 1:39:57.720 has to it should do, it must do, and it's like, 1:39:57.760 --> 1:40:00.000 well maybe no, Like, yes, if it does, it's great 1:40:00.760 --> 1:40:04.160 and it is right now, but why should right now 1:40:04.280 --> 1:40:07.280 be a prediction for how you feel in fifteen years 1:40:07.840 --> 1:40:09.479 with everything else that's going to change. 1:40:09.600 --> 1:40:12.200 I think if I knew I really couldn't meet the 1:40:12.240 --> 1:40:14.599 needs of someone and they couldn't meet my needs, if 1:40:14.600 --> 1:40:16.800 I really couldn't make them happy and they couldn't make 1:40:16.840 --> 1:40:20.120 me happy, like forcing them to stay in that situation, 1:40:20.920 --> 1:40:24.439 it's just really that makes love impossible, like the gates. 1:40:24.680 --> 1:40:28.760 So I totally get what you're saying. And my mum 1:40:28.920 --> 1:40:31.200 said this thing to me, which was like, you want 1:40:31.280 --> 1:40:34.840 to be with someone because you want them, not because 1:40:34.840 --> 1:40:38.719 you need them. And I think maybe another reason why 1:40:40.360 --> 1:40:44.240 I didn't get married younger is because I think maybe 1:40:44.240 --> 1:40:46.920 I would have married someone not knowing who I was, 1:40:47.640 --> 1:40:50.960 and I would have needed them, maybe not wanted them. 1:40:51.960 --> 1:40:55.040 And I think now I have a life that's whole 1:40:55.080 --> 1:40:57.760 and complete as it is, and I would be making 1:40:57.840 --> 1:41:00.880 a choice from a place of I just want you 1:41:01.960 --> 1:41:06.360 and I don't need you. But I just want you, 1:41:06.680 --> 1:41:09.120 and I don't. I don't think I was that woman 1:41:09.760 --> 1:41:10.880 five years ago. 1:41:11.160 --> 1:41:13.639 Yeah, I love that. And there's so much, so much 1:41:13.640 --> 1:41:16.800 to be said for attracting from a place of peace, 1:41:17.880 --> 1:41:22.040 because you know what peace feels like, and so then 1:41:22.080 --> 1:41:24.120 anyone or anything that comes into your life. 1:41:24.400 --> 1:41:26.040 I'm what feeling satisfied feels like. 1:41:26.280 --> 1:41:29.040 Satisfied is probably even a better way, and that feeling 1:41:29.120 --> 1:41:31.560 of I know what it feels like to be satisfied, 1:41:32.120 --> 1:41:34.639 and so I now know whether someone makes me more 1:41:34.640 --> 1:41:36.040 satisfied or less. 1:41:36.080 --> 1:41:38.439 I know what my baseline. You don't know what your 1:41:38.479 --> 1:41:40.720 baseline happy is, then how do you You've got no 1:41:40.840 --> 1:41:43.719 idea of knowing what's going on at all. 1:41:43.880 --> 1:41:45.720 And that's not feeling of being complete or having it 1:41:45.760 --> 1:41:48.560 all figured out. It's like, I know what satisfy is 1:41:48.560 --> 1:41:50.240 a great word. It's like, I know what it feels 1:41:50.280 --> 1:41:53.839 like to be at peace with myself or satisfied with myself, 1:41:53.880 --> 1:41:59.080 and now everyone can show me, yeah, where that pendulum swings. 1:41:59.400 --> 1:41:59.639 Yes. 1:42:00.760 --> 1:42:03.040 One thing you said which which really resonated with me, 1:42:03.080 --> 1:42:05.519 is that you've had to ask yourself so many hard 1:42:05.600 --> 1:42:08.160 questions to do the work. And I want to ask you, 1:42:08.200 --> 1:42:10.880 what's one of the hardest questions you've ever had to 1:42:10.960 --> 1:42:13.720 ask yourself? If you could recall, well. 1:42:13.479 --> 1:42:15.639 The first one that comes to mind, and then maybe 1:42:15.680 --> 1:42:18.040 I'll dig for a deep or different one. Is like 1:42:18.800 --> 1:42:22.200 to have to admit to myself or ask myself the 1:42:22.280 --> 1:42:26.479 question of like, right now, have the career and the 1:42:26.520 --> 1:42:32.080 life that like looks like the dream, But are you 1:42:32.840 --> 1:42:36.240 really happy? Emma? Are you really healthy? Are you really happy? 1:42:36.280 --> 1:42:39.559 Like is this really what you want? And to be 1:42:39.680 --> 1:42:42.559 at that point and like realize and have to admit 1:42:42.640 --> 1:42:46.200 to myself that I wasn't and I didn't was one 1:42:46.240 --> 1:42:49.479 of the scariest things I've ever had to do, because 1:42:50.320 --> 1:42:51.960 you know, I basically had to ask myself on a 1:42:52.000 --> 1:42:56.240 daily basis, like I felt like I was crazy and 1:42:57.439 --> 1:43:01.120 walking away from something without knowing what You're walking towards 1:43:02.320 --> 1:43:07.720 was not having the answers, but leaving something that was 1:43:08.160 --> 1:43:12.799 that the world considered to be of such high value, 1:43:12.960 --> 1:43:17.280 such a high value kind of moment in my professional 1:43:17.280 --> 1:43:21.040 life and career. I think that was a real sitting 1:43:21.080 --> 1:43:24.400 with that was a real moment of reckoning of like, 1:43:25.320 --> 1:43:27.519 can you tell yourself the truth? Can you live with 1:43:27.560 --> 1:43:30.679 your truth? Can you accept the fact that for most 1:43:30.720 --> 1:43:35.920 other people your truth is pretty confusing and unpalatable. That 1:43:36.080 --> 1:43:42.960 was definitely hard moment of sitting. More recently, because I've 1:43:42.960 --> 1:43:48.160 been being my own partner asking myself, are you really 1:43:48.840 --> 1:43:53.360 living your values things that you preach? Are you actually 1:43:53.400 --> 1:43:57.240 aligned and actually looking at some spaces in my life 1:43:57.240 --> 1:44:01.200 where I was like, shit, no, not at all. I'm 1:44:01.200 --> 1:44:04.800 actually not doing what I talk about. And I need 1:44:04.800 --> 1:44:07.280 to like create some sort of urgency or a deadline 1:44:07.280 --> 1:44:09.280 for that so that I make sure that I am 1:44:09.760 --> 1:44:13.320 a persitive integrity. I purport to be someone that cares 1:44:13.360 --> 1:44:17.400 about the world and about the planet and sustainability. And 1:44:18.320 --> 1:44:20.600 you know, there are some things I was doing. Was 1:44:20.640 --> 1:44:23.879 it enough by my own standards, not by anyone else's, 1:44:24.160 --> 1:44:28.040 just by my own? Probably not? But what's nice is 1:44:29.479 --> 1:44:31.599 I actually have the time now to be like, Okay, 1:44:32.000 --> 1:44:34.599 we need to do about it, get on with it, 1:44:34.640 --> 1:44:35.120 and like. 1:44:35.240 --> 1:44:37.719 But those are thank you for those. Those are great questions, 1:44:38.240 --> 1:44:42.200 really really great questions, and so hard for so many reasons, 1:44:42.280 --> 1:44:44.840 especially when you talked about like when you're stepping away 1:44:44.840 --> 1:44:49.120 from and stepping towards, did you have people in the 1:44:49.160 --> 1:44:51.360 industry or like people that you could talk to that 1:44:51.400 --> 1:44:53.519 felt the same way, Like did you have co stars 1:44:53.640 --> 1:44:55.880 or friends or wow, I. 1:44:55.880 --> 1:44:58.080 Know I don't know anyone else. I'll never say that 1:44:58.120 --> 1:45:01.760 I quit acting or be an actor. I'm still open 1:45:01.800 --> 1:45:05.400 to doing it again. But I certainly made a decision 1:45:05.439 --> 1:45:09.920 to take time to figure out to not know and 1:45:10.000 --> 1:45:15.960 to you know, I had like this whole disassembling the 1:45:16.120 --> 1:45:20.800 structure that's needed to carry the load of once and 1:45:20.880 --> 1:45:23.800 it's like there's an agent and a publicist and a 1:45:23.880 --> 1:45:28.920 manager and a personal assistant, and there's all these people 1:45:29.000 --> 1:45:33.559 and lives who are intertwined with mine. And navigating and 1:45:33.600 --> 1:45:36.880 caring for and negotiating that with people as well was 1:45:36.920 --> 1:45:41.640 like it was really tricky, and although I was just 1:45:41.640 --> 1:45:46.439 bloody terrified, Like I think there's a kind of infantilization 1:45:47.000 --> 1:45:51.920 that can happen when you work as much as I did, 1:45:53.120 --> 1:45:55.559 and a kind of lot of independence that means that 1:45:55.600 --> 1:45:58.519 you're like, oh my god, can I even do my 1:45:58.600 --> 1:46:03.439 life if I don't have this like army of people 1:46:03.520 --> 1:46:06.840 who are like helping me do the most menial and 1:46:06.880 --> 1:46:10.519 basic of things, Like can I actually like do this 1:46:10.560 --> 1:46:13.000 stuff myself? And I don't even say that in terms 1:46:13.040 --> 1:46:16.000 of like capability, but like just from the place of like, 1:46:16.080 --> 1:46:18.360 it's difficult for me to walk down the street sometimes. 1:46:18.920 --> 1:46:21.880 So if I'm going to start to take on truly 1:46:21.880 --> 1:46:24.400 the responsibility for most of my life myself, like, what's 1:46:24.479 --> 1:46:27.439 that going to be? Like? Can I really do that stuff? 1:46:27.720 --> 1:46:31.120 I think fame makes you feel like you can't do 1:46:31.160 --> 1:46:35.400 things for yourself in a way that can really disempower 1:46:35.439 --> 1:46:40.240 you and move your confidence and autonomy as a human being. 1:46:40.520 --> 1:46:43.360 That's that's really disabling and. 1:46:43.280 --> 1:46:45.559 For everyone who's wondering. Yeah, Emma called me up and 1:46:45.600 --> 1:46:48.120 I was like, should I speak in publicists? She's like, nope, 1:46:48.520 --> 1:46:50.320 my publicist. Like I was like, do I need to 1:46:50.400 --> 1:46:52.400 check on the manager? Nope, I am my manager, And 1:46:52.479 --> 1:46:56.360 like that was literally the conversation we had this podcast. Heself. 1:46:56.920 --> 1:47:00.200 There was no booker, there was no booking system, there 1:47:00.240 --> 1:47:03.040 was no, there was no reach out. It was literally 1:47:03.040 --> 1:47:05.679 Emma doing it herself, which is proof you are living 1:47:05.720 --> 1:47:08.760 your values. Thanks and you are aligned with what you're saying. 1:47:08.760 --> 1:47:10.920 I wanted to people to know that thank you. 1:47:11.080 --> 1:47:13.360 That What's so funny though, now it's like, because I 1:47:13.439 --> 1:47:17.040 do everything myself, there's like a fifty percent chance you 1:47:17.080 --> 1:47:19.759 would have not thought it was me. Or like sometimes when. 1:47:19.600 --> 1:47:21.679 I reached out to people, I had plenty of moments 1:47:22.240 --> 1:47:25.639 to take I was like, wait a minute, like very 1:47:25.720 --> 1:47:30.080 very amount of followers, I think it's not me. 1:47:30.680 --> 1:47:32.680 And so like I have a fifty to fifty rate 1:47:32.880 --> 1:47:35.639 of people actually just like not responding to me because 1:47:35.680 --> 1:47:37.839 they don't think I'd be reaching out myself. 1:47:38.320 --> 1:47:41.280 That's real. I had to do a secondary I think 1:47:41.280 --> 1:47:42.360 I rejected this morning. 1:47:44.120 --> 1:47:47.519 Definitely, am I going to turn up in some like 1:47:48.000 --> 1:47:49.080 catfridge situation? 1:47:49.640 --> 1:47:50.200 It's wild. 1:47:50.800 --> 1:47:54.720 Yeah, Oddly, sometimes it takes more work me trying to 1:47:54.760 --> 1:47:57.760 do things myself than through the system. 1:47:57.880 --> 1:48:02.000 Yeah, I know, you did great job, but that yeah, 1:48:02.600 --> 1:48:06.680 those hard questions that you asked yourself, I mean, what 1:48:07.120 --> 1:48:11.280 was it that gave you courage to walk a path 1:48:11.360 --> 1:48:14.240 where you don't know the next three steps When you 1:48:14.320 --> 1:48:17.800 have an entire career lined up on this. You have 1:48:17.880 --> 1:48:20.240 an amazing career. Every movie you've been in has been 1:48:20.280 --> 1:48:22.800 magical and amazing. Like it's when you look at your 1:48:22.840 --> 1:48:26.880 portfolio of choices, like they're all brilliant performances, they're great 1:48:26.960 --> 1:48:30.439 films that and you only would have more of that. 1:48:30.640 --> 1:48:33.639 So it's also not like you're leaving a career that's 1:48:33.760 --> 1:48:35.960 kind of had its you know what I mean, it's 1:48:36.680 --> 1:48:41.760 at a place where no business oriented person could imagine why. 1:48:42.960 --> 1:48:46.160 And so what gives you courage when one side is 1:48:46.280 --> 1:48:49.679 so clear and one side is not clear at all? 1:48:49.920 --> 1:48:53.000 Again, I'm going to tell the honest version of this story. 1:48:53.960 --> 1:48:58.760 I'd love to tell you that it was like this 1:48:58.960 --> 1:49:01.920 incredible courage and determination I have inside of me, And 1:49:03.120 --> 1:49:06.919 yes there's part of that, not going to like completely 1:49:07.000 --> 1:49:09.639 erase my role in all of this, but I think 1:49:09.680 --> 1:49:12.160 a big part was that it was coming to a 1:49:12.240 --> 1:49:19.519 point with my health and nervous system where I was 1:49:19.520 --> 1:49:23.400 starting to hit a point of not no return. But 1:49:23.520 --> 1:49:29.599 like it's interesting, I eat well, I do yoga, I 1:49:29.640 --> 1:49:33.200 do medicine, I do all the things right, But I 1:49:33.200 --> 1:49:35.800 think I was using those as a way of mitigating 1:49:36.840 --> 1:49:39.759 how much stress I was under as opposed to actually, 1:49:40.400 --> 1:49:46.000 what those things are really for are compasses and points 1:49:46.040 --> 1:49:51.080 towards our truth, and I so was. I was using 1:49:51.080 --> 1:49:58.799 them as a way of like bolstering myself and allowing 1:49:58.800 --> 1:50:02.720 myself to continue down a part that actually was kind 1:50:02.760 --> 1:50:05.439 of wrecking me. And I think it was just like 1:50:06.040 --> 1:50:11.240 my immune system couldn't pretend anymore. I was on seven 1:50:11.320 --> 1:50:14.680 or eight packets of an antibiotic every year because my 1:50:14.680 --> 1:50:17.439 immune system was so low that I would just constantly 1:50:17.479 --> 1:50:19.600 be getting I just constantly be getting sick and a 1:50:19.640 --> 1:50:23.960 science infection and whatever else. Like my body just started 1:50:24.680 --> 1:50:29.040 being like no. I went from being someone who I 1:50:29.040 --> 1:50:31.400 would say it still handle stress and pressure well, and 1:50:31.439 --> 1:50:34.680 in the moment I could always do it, but the 1:50:34.800 --> 1:50:40.360 cost afterwards was starting to get more and more serious, 1:50:40.560 --> 1:50:43.839 to the point where it was like I'd always turned 1:50:43.880 --> 1:50:48.000 down or I actually remember I was in my early 1:50:48.040 --> 1:50:50.839 twenties when a publicist first offered me a beta blocker. 1:50:51.160 --> 1:50:54.679 I was nervous before a carpet, and it's the only 1:50:54.680 --> 1:50:59.240 other time I ever took anything. And I was fine 1:50:59.360 --> 1:51:01.840 for the two hours after I took it, and then 1:51:01.840 --> 1:51:04.200 I got back to the room and when my feelings 1:51:04.240 --> 1:51:09.599 came back to me, I was like overwrought with grief 1:51:09.880 --> 1:51:14.559 and feeling of having blocked it, and so I'd always 1:51:14.720 --> 1:51:18.000 and after that, I never allowed anyone to give me 1:51:18.040 --> 1:51:22.439 anything again, even though I was offered things multiple times, 1:51:23.320 --> 1:51:25.360 and doctors just wanted to give me things for jet 1:51:25.439 --> 1:51:28.960 lag and for sleep and for nerves, and oh, everyone 1:51:29.040 --> 1:51:31.680 takes it. This is you know, there's no shame in 1:51:31.720 --> 1:51:35.280 this or whatever. But I just I felt like in 1:51:35.439 --> 1:51:37.560 order to keep going, I was going to have to 1:51:37.600 --> 1:51:41.200 make a decision of like, are you okay with being 1:51:41.760 --> 1:51:47.920 low level unwell and medicated essentially, And I just knew 1:51:48.320 --> 1:51:52.360 that wasn't a choice for me. So in a way, 1:51:52.360 --> 1:51:54.880 I have my body to think, because my body just 1:51:55.400 --> 1:51:57.519 I didn't want to ignore my body anymore. And it 1:51:57.560 --> 1:52:00.400 didn't matter how many silent retreats I want, or how 1:52:00.439 --> 1:52:03.880 much yogurt I did, or what like what new thing 1:52:03.920 --> 1:52:05.960 I did to try and take care of myself, my 1:52:06.040 --> 1:52:12.200 body was done. And that was then, I think, when 1:52:12.640 --> 1:52:19.519 I went away and found a relationship with myself and 1:52:19.560 --> 1:52:23.400 my practice and just having trust and faith in a 1:52:23.439 --> 1:52:27.400 way that I never had before, and I started listening 1:52:28.280 --> 1:52:31.840 more carefully to like these little whispers of like, oh, 1:52:31.920 --> 1:52:33.960 like maybe this should be the thing you do, or 1:52:34.000 --> 1:52:37.439 like even coming and doing this, of like I think 1:52:37.439 --> 1:52:39.760 you should go and do this podcast just listening to 1:52:39.800 --> 1:52:43.719 myself the clues basically and listening to the universe whatever 1:52:43.760 --> 1:52:46.280 that means. But I never had that before. I never 1:52:46.320 --> 1:52:49.599 had I never knew how to listen for those things 1:52:49.640 --> 1:52:54.360 before I truly went away and had nothing for a while. 1:52:54.720 --> 1:53:00.200 So that was probably the best result of all that. 1:53:00.720 --> 1:53:03.479 Yeah, And I think it still takes so much courage, 1:53:03.520 --> 1:53:06.240 because it does even though you didn't see it that 1:53:06.280 --> 1:53:09.240 way and you may not have noticed it, it still 1:53:09.439 --> 1:53:13.160 takes so much courage to listen to your body because 1:53:13.320 --> 1:53:16.240 it is easy to keep medicating in all the ways 1:53:16.360 --> 1:53:20.640 to break it anyway. Yeah, and to push it to 1:53:20.720 --> 1:53:24.759 the edges and the limits of its ability, and because 1:53:24.760 --> 1:53:28.200 you're so addicted or intoxicated by the success or whatever. 1:53:28.320 --> 1:53:30.600 Maybe I guess the couragest part was just knowing I 1:53:30.600 --> 1:53:32.479 didn't want to numb out. That was the point at 1:53:32.520 --> 1:53:34.960 which it got too big of a cost, because I 1:53:35.000 --> 1:53:37.200 was like, Okay, if I feel like I need to be, 1:53:39.080 --> 1:53:42.200 I'm at the point where the price is too high. Now. 1:53:42.880 --> 1:53:45.400 Yeah, I loved what you said about when they're meant 1:53:45.439 --> 1:53:48.040 to be compassed to our truth and not like this 1:53:48.600 --> 1:53:52.679 band aid pacification of And I've. 1:53:52.479 --> 1:53:55.479 Been highly, really effectively using those band aids. They all 1:53:55.479 --> 1:53:57.839 carry you far, like I had a lot of practice. 1:53:57.960 --> 1:54:00.839 I think that's how they're presented now too. It's become 1:54:01.000 --> 1:54:04.040 this and that's why when you said that, then you 1:54:05.040 --> 1:54:07.120 it's almost like I'm trying to think of it a 1:54:07.160 --> 1:54:08.960 good metaphor, but the one that's coming to my mind, 1:54:08.960 --> 1:54:11.400 it's almost like driving to the grocery store in a 1:54:11.400 --> 1:54:13.400 sports car and it's like a sports cars made for 1:54:13.479 --> 1:54:17.559 this high speed track, like that's what it's for, yep, 1:54:17.720 --> 1:54:20.160 But you're using it just to drive twenty five miles 1:54:20.200 --> 1:54:22.920 an hour, yeah, to the grocery store. And it's like, no, 1:54:23.000 --> 1:54:26.640 it's it has so much more capability and ability to 1:54:26.720 --> 1:54:30.000 take you somewhere phenomenally, but you're using it for a 1:54:30.040 --> 1:54:31.479 really simple basic task. 1:54:31.680 --> 1:54:33.440 Not gonna lie though. I remember when I did my 1:54:33.480 --> 1:54:39.520 first for pastener and sat long enough, and I went 1:54:39.600 --> 1:54:43.480 to my teacher and I was like, what have I done? 1:54:43.800 --> 1:54:44.720 Go and tell me about this? 1:54:45.200 --> 1:54:45.800 What have I done? 1:54:45.920 --> 1:54:46.240 You mean? 1:54:47.080 --> 1:54:49.320 I because in a way it was almost like I 1:54:49.440 --> 1:54:54.560 realized once you start paying attention to your truth. It's 1:54:54.680 --> 1:54:58.960 very difficult to go back. And in some way it 1:54:59.080 --> 1:55:01.840 felt like I was like, oh my god, I don't 1:55:01.840 --> 1:55:04.000 know if I like this. I don't know if I 1:55:04.160 --> 1:55:07.320 like this. I maybe I want to go back. And 1:55:07.400 --> 1:55:09.880 once you step through it, you you kind of can't 1:55:09.880 --> 1:55:11.839 go back. And I remember him looking at me calmly 1:55:11.920 --> 1:55:15.400 and saying, could you even go back now, even if 1:55:15.400 --> 1:55:17.480 you wanted to? And I was like, I guess not. 1:55:18.120 --> 1:55:21.280 I guess this is the path I've chosen to walk. 1:55:21.480 --> 1:55:25.720 And to some degree, in the same way, they're getting 1:55:25.720 --> 1:55:28.080 cast as hermione and like making my peace with the 1:55:28.080 --> 1:55:30.680 way that that changed my life were my marching orders. 1:55:31.400 --> 1:55:37.800 I think trusting that is that's that's all I can 1:55:37.800 --> 1:55:40.600 do at this point. Idly one for dear life. 1:55:41.560 --> 1:55:43.440 Yeah, it's like the mafia. Once you're in you know 1:55:43.480 --> 1:55:45.520 too much. Yeah, it's true. 1:55:46.040 --> 1:55:50.640 I'll never forget that moment. I'll never forget. Oh no, 1:55:51.080 --> 1:55:53.560 this is undoable now, isn't it. And he was like 1:55:53.960 --> 1:55:57.560 kind of yeah. I was like, oh no, it's so uncomfortable. 1:55:57.800 --> 1:56:00.560 It's so uncomfortable being asked with myself, and then I 1:56:00.600 --> 1:56:02.680 have to be honest with other people as well, this 1:56:02.720 --> 1:56:03.400 is a nightmare. 1:56:03.600 --> 1:56:09.360 Why did I do this? Why am I here? Oh god, 1:56:10.560 --> 1:56:14.120 I'm just imagining you retreat, like coming out of it 1:56:14.160 --> 1:56:17.480 and just having that reaction. Yeah, it's so funny, so good. 1:56:18.400 --> 1:56:19.920 That needs to get added to the plane. 1:56:20.000 --> 1:56:24.720 Okay, that actually, yeah, I wrote something. I wrote something 1:56:24.720 --> 1:56:28.720 about my doing the pastor for the first for the 1:56:28.720 --> 1:56:31.640 first time, because my god, that's such a it's such 1:56:31.680 --> 1:56:35.320 a roller coaster. Yeah, it's such a roller coaster. Anything 1:56:35.320 --> 1:56:37.320 you want to share about it, sure, yeah, I don't 1:56:37.320 --> 1:56:39.000 want to brought you to death. I mean, I think 1:56:39.040 --> 1:56:41.600 what was funny was like, I have this picture that 1:56:41.640 --> 1:56:47.160 I drew of day day two, and it's like green 1:56:47.320 --> 1:56:49.920 and pink and there's butterflies on it, and it literally 1:56:49.960 --> 1:56:51.840 says I think, it says this is so embarrassing. It 1:56:51.880 --> 1:56:58.160 says I am beautiful. I just felt like I was like, 1:56:58.320 --> 1:57:01.200 oh my god, this is blows. I was like riding 1:57:01.240 --> 1:57:05.840 this wave of like meditation, ecstasy, basically whatever dopamine here 1:57:05.880 --> 1:57:09.880 I was getting from that was wild. I just felt unbelievable. 1:57:10.800 --> 1:57:14.760 And then I surfed that wave straight into some kind 1:57:14.840 --> 1:57:19.560 of like brick wall of Oh my god, like all 1:57:19.600 --> 1:57:22.080 the things in life that you think are outside of 1:57:22.160 --> 1:57:26.200 you actually live inside you. And so even when you're 1:57:26.240 --> 1:57:28.880 like in this beautiful place, on this gorgeous meditation retreat 1:57:28.880 --> 1:57:32.360 with all of these wonderful, enlightened people, everything starts to 1:57:32.440 --> 1:57:36.480 drive you crazy, and even the like salt shaker and 1:57:36.520 --> 1:57:38.440 the pepper pot in front of you start to take 1:57:38.480 --> 1:57:41.920 on the shapes of your real life, and you realize 1:57:41.920 --> 1:57:44.520 that your mind just starts creating all this drama for you, 1:57:44.880 --> 1:57:49.600 even though there's nothing going on literally, And it was 1:57:49.880 --> 1:57:52.840 just it was such a wild experience to kind of 1:57:52.840 --> 1:57:57.280 sit there and be like, oh my god, I'm creating 1:57:57.400 --> 1:58:00.680 all of my own drama. This is a night it's me. 1:58:01.320 --> 1:58:02.879 It's me. I'm the problem. 1:58:03.600 --> 1:58:06.680 And I was like, I can't stay here. I can't 1:58:06.680 --> 1:58:09.640 do this. This is way too hard living with myself 1:58:09.680 --> 1:58:11.960 and my own thoughts is going to try this is unbearable. 1:58:12.160 --> 1:58:15.680 I can't do this. That was a really big learning 1:58:15.720 --> 1:58:17.440 And what I have to remember all the time is 1:58:17.480 --> 1:58:22.160 like I as a perfectionist, which again is a kind 1:58:22.200 --> 1:58:26.240 of violence on yourself. I would try to like shame 1:58:26.280 --> 1:58:30.200 and blame myself into and like kind of shake myself 1:58:30.280 --> 1:58:35.520 up and give myself these kinds of like talkings to 1:58:35.520 --> 1:58:38.440 to make myself do stuff and sometimes, to be honest 1:58:38.440 --> 1:58:40.600 with you, they work in the short term and in 1:58:40.640 --> 1:58:44.000 the long term they fail you miserably, like they just 1:58:44.040 --> 1:58:47.320 do not work. The only way that I have learned 1:58:47.400 --> 1:58:53.280 to change my patterns, to show up for myself better, 1:58:53.360 --> 1:58:55.760 to change in the ways I want to change and 1:58:55.800 --> 1:59:00.880 grow is to be loving towards myself. So getting to 1:59:00.920 --> 1:59:03.960 be in the room with that person at that moment 1:59:04.520 --> 1:59:06.200 was a massive gift. 1:59:08.440 --> 1:59:10.480 Someone that you're going to attend a class with can 1:59:10.520 --> 1:59:12.480 become such a big teacher for you when you allow 1:59:12.520 --> 1:59:14.640 it to be. And yeah, you know, someone who wasn't 1:59:14.640 --> 1:59:16.600 the leader or the guide of the group can can 1:59:16.640 --> 1:59:35.120 have such an impact on you. Speaking aout love, did 1:59:35.120 --> 1:59:38.080 you want to share the Is it the practice that 1:59:38.120 --> 1:59:40.800 you went through recently with? Is that what you? Yeah? 1:59:40.880 --> 1:59:41.280 The ring? 1:59:41.440 --> 1:59:41.760 Yeah there? 1:59:42.040 --> 1:59:44.160 Ye oh my god, that's sweet of you to remember 1:59:44.200 --> 1:59:49.240 I mentioned that. Yeah, I I guess. Having gone through 1:59:49.320 --> 1:59:53.600 this odyssey, which has been the last I guess seven years, 1:59:54.520 --> 1:59:58.320 I was like, Okay, I kind of feel like I've 1:59:58.360 --> 2:00:02.400 got to a place will continue forever where I want 2:00:02.560 --> 2:00:06.360 to celebrate where I ended up after I kind of 2:00:07.920 --> 2:00:11.280 left land. It felt like and yeah, I did a 2:00:11.360 --> 2:00:16.520 ritual with or I guess, just a day of celebrating 2:00:16.840 --> 2:00:22.000 with my friends and chosen family, and they each brought 2:00:22.040 --> 2:00:26.960 me this ring, which has twenty two pedals on it, 2:00:27.200 --> 2:00:30.440 and each of them bought one. And I've just never 2:00:30.480 --> 2:00:35.400 owned anything so valuable in my life because to me, 2:00:35.520 --> 2:00:38.960 it represents the life that I've built, which was the 2:00:38.960 --> 2:00:41.080 one that I really wanted, which was one that was 2:00:41.120 --> 2:00:49.200 made up of community and my roots and faith and trust. 2:00:49.720 --> 2:00:52.960 And in some funny way, it signals to me that 2:00:53.680 --> 2:00:59.400 even though I have no outwood signs of my success 2:00:59.440 --> 2:01:03.680 save for this crazy one woman play I've written, I 2:01:03.680 --> 2:01:06.400 don't even have my degree yet, and it signals to 2:01:06.440 --> 2:01:10.400 me that for me achieved what I wanted to achieve 2:01:10.520 --> 2:01:17.360 for myself. Wow, So that's pretty cool. I love that 2:01:17.440 --> 2:01:19.160 every time I look down on my finger, I can 2:01:19.240 --> 2:01:21.120 like see all of the faces of the people who 2:01:21.160 --> 2:01:24.840 bought it for me. You're amazing at holding space. You're 2:01:24.960 --> 2:01:27.240 so kind the amount of people who probably sat in 2:01:27.240 --> 2:01:30.080 this chair and then as emotional as I have, and 2:01:30.160 --> 2:01:32.800 you don't turn away. It's amazing. 2:01:33.360 --> 2:01:34.200 It's easy with you. 2:01:34.720 --> 2:01:35.600 That's very kind. 2:01:36.240 --> 2:01:39.240 Thanks you. It's really easy because it's really heartfelt. And 2:01:40.000 --> 2:01:42.440 you've shared so much of me before today and today 2:01:42.480 --> 2:01:47.040 that I felt like you shared you created that space 2:01:47.080 --> 2:01:51.000 for me to sit with you before today and today. 2:01:51.080 --> 2:01:51.440 Wow. 2:01:52.280 --> 2:01:55.400 What makes a real friend? So you said you had 2:01:55.440 --> 2:01:59.879 twenty two two twenty two yeah, two friends? What defines 2:02:00.160 --> 2:02:01.160 a good friend? For you? 2:02:01.480 --> 2:02:01.640 Oh? 2:02:01.760 --> 2:02:05.760 My god? For me, I've never killed anyone in my life, 2:02:05.800 --> 2:02:08.480 and I have no intention of killing anyone, but like, 2:02:09.120 --> 2:02:11.080 is the person who you can call when you're like 2:02:11.360 --> 2:02:14.200 they would help you carry the dead pockets? You know 2:02:14.240 --> 2:02:17.920 what I mean? Like the person you call you like shit, 2:02:18.160 --> 2:02:20.720 I think I've done this thing and I need you 2:02:20.760 --> 2:02:23.160 to like either tell me I'm crazy or tell me 2:02:23.200 --> 2:02:25.360 I'm not crazy, or tell me the truth or help 2:02:25.440 --> 2:02:28.360 me fix it or I don't know that. I think 2:02:28.400 --> 2:02:32.160 it's like the people that God, it's the people that 2:02:32.200 --> 2:02:34.160 you just like do not have to have airs and 2:02:34.200 --> 2:02:38.520 graces with, and who you can just be like this 2:02:38.760 --> 2:02:43.560 just happened and it's such a disaster and yeah, and 2:02:43.680 --> 2:02:48.800 I don't know people. I think also who can handle 2:02:49.200 --> 2:02:54.280 your truths, your real truths and vulnerabilities like their sacred 2:02:54.720 --> 2:02:58.880 and with care. I think that's been very important for 2:02:58.920 --> 2:03:02.720 me because I think maybe part of my bravado is 2:03:03.480 --> 2:03:06.120 I'll make a joke of or I'll be brave about 2:03:06.120 --> 2:03:08.920 things I don't feel very brave about, and it takes 2:03:08.920 --> 2:03:12.440 someone who knows me quite well to go she's making 2:03:12.480 --> 2:03:16.400 a joke about this, Yeah, she's like actually dying inside 2:03:16.680 --> 2:03:19.120 and I kind of know that and like I'm going 2:03:19.200 --> 2:03:20.160 to hold her through it. 2:03:20.880 --> 2:03:21.160 Yeah. 2:03:21.320 --> 2:03:24.960 I think real friends are the ones when you're in 2:03:24.960 --> 2:03:28.000 a really tight corner and not just that will like 2:03:28.080 --> 2:03:30.880 show up begrudgingly, but be like, what are we dealing 2:03:30.880 --> 2:03:34.760 with today, and like maybe we'll enjoy that or see 2:03:34.760 --> 2:03:39.000 that as like an honor and a privilege. Actually, I 2:03:39.000 --> 2:03:41.120 think that's been a big learning for me, and it's 2:03:41.160 --> 2:03:43.520 an honor and a gift when someone asks you for 2:03:43.560 --> 2:03:47.400 help or when they need you. And I think I 2:03:47.480 --> 2:03:50.600 used to feel really embarrassed about needing anything from anyone 2:03:51.040 --> 2:03:53.240 or asking for help. I used to see it as 2:03:53.280 --> 2:03:56.760 like a great shame, like something I was really embarrassed 2:03:56.800 --> 2:04:00.520 to do. And now I see it as like, I guess, 2:04:00.560 --> 2:04:03.080 like knowing how I feel when someone asks me for 2:04:03.160 --> 2:04:06.520 help that I really love and how amazing it feels 2:04:06.560 --> 2:04:08.800 to be able to be there for someone else I 2:04:08.840 --> 2:04:11.680 try to remind myself that when I'm feeling like I 2:04:11.680 --> 2:04:16.760 couldn't possibly burden someone else with something, I remind myself 2:04:17.720 --> 2:04:21.520 and do you remember how good it felt that someone 2:04:21.640 --> 2:04:25.240 like asked you to show up for them and that 2:04:25.280 --> 2:04:28.880 you got to be there for them at their worst 2:04:28.960 --> 2:04:33.840 or darkest. And so I think coming to understand, like 2:04:34.000 --> 2:04:38.800 I think I also confused codependency or like I don't know. 2:04:39.400 --> 2:04:43.200 I didn't we are so interdependent as species, and and 2:04:44.080 --> 2:04:50.480 like there's no shame in needing and wanting other people. 2:04:51.080 --> 2:04:55.640 I didn't. I didn't understand. I didn't understand, and I do. 2:04:56.440 --> 2:04:58.360 I love that, and I love how it started as 2:04:58.480 --> 2:05:00.440 if I have a kills, which I. 2:05:02.120 --> 2:05:03.920 Haven't. 2:05:04.280 --> 2:05:07.960 So good, it's so good. So it's like I did 2:05:08.080 --> 2:05:10.080 not expect you to say that it was so good, 2:05:10.720 --> 2:05:13.120 so surprising. I love it, but no, it's so it's 2:05:13.120 --> 2:05:14.920 so true. Like when I when I left a monastery, 2:05:14.960 --> 2:05:16.280 and even though I was with my wife and we 2:05:16.320 --> 2:05:18.600 go into a relationship and we're dating, I used to 2:05:18.600 --> 2:05:21.600 always feel like I didn't I always I had this 2:05:21.840 --> 2:05:26.200 false mindset because of my immaturity and understand what being 2:05:26.200 --> 2:05:29.040 a monk was in that it was in this independent 2:05:29.280 --> 2:05:32.760 way of not needing or wanting anyone, and that we 2:05:32.760 --> 2:05:34.400 were in a relationship but it was great, but like 2:05:34.440 --> 2:05:36.960 that wasn't and I held that immature and I probably 2:05:37.040 --> 2:05:39.280 verbalized it to her too many times for too long 2:05:39.520 --> 2:05:41.200 in the beginning of our relationship and no idea where 2:05:41.240 --> 2:05:46.200 she stayed. It's uh, it took recently. It was this 2:05:46.280 --> 2:05:48.680 was so recent, This was like maybe a couple of 2:05:48.720 --> 2:05:51.680 months ago. Well, I realized that I shouldn't have said 2:05:51.680 --> 2:05:53.680 that years ago. But then a couple of months ago, 2:05:54.560 --> 2:05:56.720 my wife said to me, she goes, you're my calm, 2:05:56.760 --> 2:05:59.280 like you can't my nervous system, and I was like, 2:05:59.320 --> 2:06:01.160 you're my joy. You bring joy to every part of 2:06:01.200 --> 2:06:04.120 my life. And it was like that exchange was so 2:06:04.320 --> 2:06:08.280 needed and so powerful after having for so long feeling like, 2:06:08.280 --> 2:06:09.920 oh I have everything I need anyway, and I do. 2:06:10.040 --> 2:06:13.560 I genuinely believe that. But it's what you said, is 2:06:13.560 --> 2:06:15.560 that we're interdependent for a reason. 2:06:15.760 --> 2:06:17.040 Yes, we couldn't regulate. 2:06:17.120 --> 2:06:20.000 My wife mat had so much. It's like saying, I 2:06:20.080 --> 2:06:23.560 don't need salt added on to this meal, and like 2:06:23.600 --> 2:06:24.920 the meal is great, and it's like I don't need 2:06:24.920 --> 2:06:26.480 any more salt, and it's like, well, now if you 2:06:26.480 --> 2:06:29.520 had a little bit, so make a bit better, and 2:06:29.560 --> 2:06:31.720 it's like and we kind of live in that life 2:06:31.760 --> 2:06:33.400 of like I don't want to add anything to this, 2:06:33.480 --> 2:06:37.240 and it's it's almost a defense mechanism because we're so 2:06:37.280 --> 2:06:41.680 scared that there may not be someone to add. And 2:06:41.720 --> 2:06:44.879 I've lived there, so I that, Yeah, that resonated very strongly. 2:06:44.920 --> 2:06:47.520 I think that was one of the other gifts actually 2:06:47.680 --> 2:06:50.240 of getting to a point where because I used to 2:06:50.280 --> 2:06:52.840 be this like I'm so tough and in dependent and 2:06:52.880 --> 2:06:56.120 I can do anything person and being at the point 2:06:56.160 --> 2:07:00.040 where I was like, ah shit, I actually think I 2:07:00.040 --> 2:07:04.480 I'm like not okay and my body forcing me to 2:07:04.560 --> 2:07:08.920 ask other people for help was the biggest gift of 2:07:08.920 --> 2:07:11.240 my life because it brought me so much closer to 2:07:11.280 --> 2:07:15.040 other people and I learned that not only is it 2:07:15.120 --> 2:07:19.920 not a burden, it's genuinely, yeah, a privilege and a 2:07:19.960 --> 2:07:24.480 gift sometimes to have someone ask you that ask you 2:07:24.520 --> 2:07:27.520 that question or like be honest about the ways that 2:07:27.560 --> 2:07:32.080 they need you. And it's crazy how long it takes 2:07:32.400 --> 2:07:33.080 these things. 2:07:33.960 --> 2:07:37.760 Absolutely, You've done so much in a work and self work, 2:07:37.760 --> 2:07:40.560 and I'm wondering, what's what's the work you've been avoiding. 2:07:41.080 --> 2:07:42.400 What's the work you've been putting off? 2:07:43.240 --> 2:07:50.040 Wow? I think it's probably something around now tying it 2:07:50.080 --> 2:07:54.040 all together. I think in some ways, me being here 2:07:54.160 --> 2:07:59.800 today as me trying to do the piece I've been 2:07:59.840 --> 2:08:05.080 a avoiding maybe, which is like, Okay, you know you 2:08:05.120 --> 2:08:09.200 want to show up as a full, integrated whole self 2:08:10.000 --> 2:08:15.920 and not compartmentalize and split and fragment yourself in a 2:08:15.960 --> 2:08:21.760 way that keeps you safe. And that compartmentalization did keep 2:08:21.960 --> 2:08:24.320 me safe and felt very necessary for a long time, 2:08:24.360 --> 2:08:27.960 because I was trying to keep some walls up where 2:08:27.960 --> 2:08:30.920 I could nurture myself and learn and grow and then 2:08:31.000 --> 2:08:35.240 be ready to share those pieces. But I think it's 2:08:35.320 --> 2:08:42.280 probably figuring out how to avoid the pieces that I 2:08:42.440 --> 2:08:47.040 know aren't good for me and that are genuinely just toxic. 2:08:48.080 --> 2:08:49.440 But to. 2:08:51.240 --> 2:08:54.880 Yeah, I have the courage to show up now in 2:08:55.000 --> 2:09:01.160 whatever form that is and trust again, whether that's a 2:09:01.200 --> 2:09:08.960 person or it's making something, or it's kind of okay, 2:09:09.600 --> 2:09:14.600 have you learned enough that you can integrate and share 2:09:15.040 --> 2:09:18.760 now that you've done this in a work on your own? 2:09:19.280 --> 2:09:23.360 Yeah, And that feels a resonate, ok. Yeah, Yeah, it's hard, 2:09:23.440 --> 2:09:27.920 it's hard. It's hard to verbalize. It's almost like it 2:09:27.960 --> 2:09:30.680 is that you've been private for so long. Yeah, and 2:09:30.720 --> 2:09:35.200 you've been working in private. An't your fascinations, your curiosities, 2:09:35.200 --> 2:09:38.280 your friends, you're inner work, And then to actually come 2:09:38.320 --> 2:09:41.680 out and talk about what that period has been like 2:09:41.800 --> 2:09:45.240 publicly is something you can keep pushing off. 2:09:45.280 --> 2:09:49.360 And and maybe the how that ties into partnership is 2:09:49.360 --> 2:09:54.640 that I've realized actually that some of the people I've 2:09:54.720 --> 2:10:01.160 been attracting on the dating front thing, they're dating some 2:10:01.640 --> 2:10:05.280 previous version of me who I'm who still exists in 2:10:05.320 --> 2:10:09.960 some ways, but who isn't actually who I am now. 2:10:10.720 --> 2:10:14.120 And I realized I was like, oh, I'm still getting 2:10:14.160 --> 2:10:20.120 sent people who like are seeing someone who was part 2:10:20.160 --> 2:10:24.720 of the picture, but not the whole picture. And it's 2:10:24.760 --> 2:10:31.160 starting to feel uncomfortable. Two not feel like I'm telling 2:10:31.200 --> 2:10:33.080 this part of the story, if that makes sense. 2:10:34.040 --> 2:10:36.160 It's even hard for you to be like, well, these 2:10:36.200 --> 2:10:37.960 are the parts that are still there, and these are 2:10:39.440 --> 2:10:43.839 it's not a didactic process, No, it's not an equation 2:10:44.000 --> 2:10:45.520 where you can go, well, these are the parts that 2:10:45.520 --> 2:10:47.560 I've kept. These are the parts that are not like 2:10:47.600 --> 2:10:49.400 it doesn't work, Like, no, it. 2:10:49.360 --> 2:10:52.520 Doesn't work like that. It doesn't work like that, but 2:10:53.600 --> 2:10:56.280 I'm still getting requests that want to drag me a 2:10:56.280 --> 2:10:59.800 little bit more into a version of myself who was 2:11:00.080 --> 2:11:03.120 great and she was doing great stuff. But I think 2:11:03.480 --> 2:11:07.520 there's a part of me now that really feels like 2:11:08.160 --> 2:11:10.240 being able to speak to you one on one in 2:11:10.280 --> 2:11:12.640 this kind of setting, as opposed to what I used 2:11:12.640 --> 2:11:15.600 to do, which would be an enormous audience and there'd 2:11:15.600 --> 2:11:18.520 be like three hundred people there, and of course there's 2:11:18.720 --> 2:11:20.800 intimacy you can find in a room like that, but 2:11:20.920 --> 2:11:26.400 like the truth is, it's really difficult to find the 2:11:26.480 --> 2:11:28.560 kind of depth and the kind of connections that I 2:11:28.680 --> 2:11:31.960 know are the ones that nourish me personally, and that's 2:11:32.680 --> 2:11:35.800 different for everyone, but that just aren't allowing me to 2:11:35.840 --> 2:11:37.840 have the thing that I know is the real thing 2:11:37.880 --> 2:11:40.960 that I'm actually seeking and what I used to go 2:11:41.000 --> 2:11:43.240 into lots of other environments seeking and thinking i'd be 2:11:43.280 --> 2:11:45.440 able to get and keep and just not not being 2:11:45.480 --> 2:11:47.600 able to find. 2:11:47.800 --> 2:11:49.720 And it's something I wanted to ask you about that's 2:11:51.600 --> 2:11:55.440 difficult and challenging because it's something you spoke about earlier 2:11:55.480 --> 2:11:57.040 as to being such a big part of your life, 2:11:57.040 --> 2:12:02.960 an important part of your life. But recently there's been 2:12:04.240 --> 2:12:07.840 so many conversations and comments directly from JK. Rowling, whether 2:12:07.880 --> 2:12:12.280 it's her saying she'd never forgive you for your views, 2:12:13.120 --> 2:12:15.400 or the fact that when she was asked what ruins 2:12:15.440 --> 2:12:19.200 the movies for her, she named yourself and some of 2:12:19.200 --> 2:12:22.640 your co stars. And I imagine that's an extremely difficult 2:12:22.640 --> 2:12:24.720 thing when you've been a part of someone's world, when 2:12:24.760 --> 2:12:28.480 you've felt connected to their work, and then for it 2:12:28.520 --> 2:12:32.520 now to kind of be a four one eighty and 2:12:32.600 --> 2:12:34.400 for someone to publicly say these things that can be 2:12:34.480 --> 2:12:38.880 quite quite extremely hurtful. Actually, how do you think about that? 2:12:40.360 --> 2:12:46.560 I really don't believe that by having had that experience 2:12:46.680 --> 2:12:52.480 and holding the love and support and views that I 2:12:52.640 --> 2:13:01.440 have mean that I can't and don't treasure and the 2:13:01.560 --> 2:13:08.720 person that I that I had personal experiences with, I 2:13:08.800 --> 2:13:15.000 will never believe that one negates the other, and that 2:13:15.120 --> 2:13:20.400 my experience of that person I don't get to keep 2:13:20.440 --> 2:13:24.560 and cherish to come back to our earlier thing. Like, 2:13:24.600 --> 2:13:27.720 I just don't think these things are either or. I 2:13:27.760 --> 2:13:35.840 think it's my deepest wish that I hope people who 2:13:35.880 --> 2:13:37.520 don't agree with my opinion will love me, and I 2:13:37.520 --> 2:13:40.200 hope I can keep loving people who I don't necessarily 2:13:40.200 --> 2:13:43.880 share the same opinion with, and I think that's a 2:13:44.080 --> 2:13:49.760 very very important way for me that I need to 2:13:49.800 --> 2:13:54.520 be able to move through life. I just really, I 2:13:54.560 --> 2:13:59.160 guess I to circle back around. I really do believe 2:13:59.360 --> 2:14:06.320 in having conversations and that those are really important, and 2:14:06.600 --> 2:14:13.600 that I don't know. I guess where I've landed is 2:14:15.840 --> 2:14:18.600 it's not so much what we say or what we believe, 2:14:20.320 --> 2:14:24.280 but very often how we say it that's really important, 2:14:24.280 --> 2:14:26.200 and that's really frustrating and not what you want to 2:14:26.200 --> 2:14:31.040 hear when you're really angry and upset with someone. But 2:14:32.360 --> 2:14:36.760 I don't know. I just see this world right now 2:14:36.840 --> 2:14:41.800 where we seem to be giving permission for this kind 2:14:41.840 --> 2:14:47.200 of like throwing out of people, or that people are disposable, 2:14:47.920 --> 2:14:52.800 and I just think that's I will always think that's wrong. 2:14:53.080 --> 2:14:58.800 I always I just believe that no one is, no 2:14:59.240 --> 2:15:05.640 one's disposable, and everyone, as far as possible, whatever the 2:15:05.680 --> 2:15:11.000 conversation is, should and can be treated with at the 2:15:11.120 --> 2:15:13.240 very least dignity and respect. 2:15:15.440 --> 2:15:19.400 Thank you for challenging us, and yeah, it takes a lot. 2:15:20.320 --> 2:15:21.840 I think that's what we're all being challenged to do 2:15:21.920 --> 2:15:24.080 is try and hold two truths at once. And yes, 2:15:24.200 --> 2:15:27.680 those two truths don't have to be complimentary, but they 2:15:28.560 --> 2:15:30.280 can stand honor. 2:15:31.000 --> 2:15:33.360 I think the thing I'm most upset about is that 2:15:34.200 --> 2:15:36.960 a conversation was never made possible. 2:15:38.080 --> 2:15:41.000 You remain open for that dialogue. 2:15:40.800 --> 2:15:44.720 Yeah, and I always will. I believe in that. I 2:15:44.800 --> 2:15:52.520 believe in that completely. I believe in that completely. I 2:15:52.600 --> 2:15:57.320 just don't. Yeah, I just don't want to say anything 2:15:57.360 --> 2:16:01.000 that continues to weaponize a really like toxic debate and conversation, 2:16:01.760 --> 2:16:07.600 which is maybe why I don't well, it is why 2:16:08.000 --> 2:16:11.480 I don't comment or like continue to comment, not because 2:16:11.480 --> 2:16:14.600 I don't care about her or about the issue, but 2:16:14.640 --> 2:16:17.640 because I just the way that the conversation is being 2:16:17.680 --> 2:16:23.680 had it feels really painful to me. And so that's 2:16:23.760 --> 2:16:26.120 why that's why that decision. 2:16:26.600 --> 2:16:32.600 Yeah, I really appreciate that mindset and deeply, deeply feel 2:16:32.680 --> 2:16:37.360 like if people were challenged to go there themselves, Like 2:16:37.440 --> 2:16:39.400 it takes a lot to think that way and feel 2:16:39.400 --> 2:16:42.959 that way. Yeah, but it's what it's what healing really 2:16:43.000 --> 2:16:46.200 requires across you know, around the world. And I can't 2:16:46.240 --> 2:16:48.560 imagine how many young people who look up to you 2:16:48.600 --> 2:16:50.000 and people who look up to you will feel the 2:16:50.000 --> 2:16:53.560 same way to recognize that that's how we engage, that's 2:16:53.600 --> 2:16:56.240 what we look for. We it's not that we're trying 2:16:56.280 --> 2:17:00.600 to make everything pretty and perfect, it's that no engage 2:17:00.600 --> 2:17:02.000 in a conversation. 2:17:02.240 --> 2:17:07.000 Yes, her kindness and words of encouragement and that steadfastness, 2:17:08.120 --> 2:17:14.480 that and also honestly, just as a young woman, for 2:17:14.560 --> 2:17:19.160 her to have written that character created that world, given 2:17:19.200 --> 2:17:22.720 me an opportunity which, to be honest, barely exists in 2:17:22.760 --> 2:17:30.200 the history of English literature. You know, how can I 2:17:30.600 --> 2:17:35.840 There's just no world in which I could ever cancel 2:17:35.959 --> 2:17:41.880 her out or cancel that out. For anything, it has 2:17:41.959 --> 2:17:44.959 to remain true. It is true. And this is where 2:17:45.280 --> 2:17:47.800 this like holding of these I just don't know what 2:17:47.840 --> 2:17:52.359 else to do other than hold these two seemingly incompatible 2:17:52.440 --> 2:17:57.400 things together at the same time and just hope maybe 2:17:57.440 --> 2:18:00.400 they will one day resolve or co join themselves, and 2:18:00.440 --> 2:18:03.320 maybe accept that they never will, but that they can 2:18:03.440 --> 2:18:08.879 both still be true. And I can love her, I 2:18:08.879 --> 2:18:11.640 can know she loved me. I could be grateful to her. 2:18:12.360 --> 2:18:14.120 I can know the things that she's said are true, 2:18:15.040 --> 2:18:20.600 and that can be this whole other thing. And my 2:18:20.840 --> 2:18:25.160 job feels like to just hold just to hold all 2:18:25.200 --> 2:18:31.400 of it. But the bigger thing is just what she's 2:18:31.640 --> 2:18:33.360 done will never be taken away from me. 2:18:34.879 --> 2:18:40.080 Thanks for saying such a powerful example. That beautiful left. 2:18:40.080 --> 2:18:43.720 Scott Fitzgerald quote that the sign of a first rate 2:18:43.800 --> 2:18:47.160 intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas at 2:18:47.160 --> 2:18:50.360 the same time and still retain the ability to function. 2:18:51.000 --> 2:18:53.000 So it goes on to say one should therefore be 2:18:53.040 --> 2:18:56.440 able to see that the world is hopeless, but still 2:18:56.480 --> 2:19:00.640 be determined to make it otherwise. And it's like, that's. 2:19:01.520 --> 2:19:04.760 That's Scott Fitzgerald said that. Wow, he ran deeper than 2:19:04.800 --> 2:19:09.920 I knew. Wow, that's incredible. 2:19:10.280 --> 2:19:11.280 It's one of my fast Wow. 2:19:11.360 --> 2:19:13.879 Wells on you for remembering that second part. Wow, he's 2:19:13.879 --> 2:19:16.680 made me like Fitzgerald. I mean, I liked him, don't like. 2:19:18.240 --> 2:19:20.560 To me. It's my It's one of my favorites. That's 2:19:20.800 --> 2:19:22.520 so good, so good. 2:19:22.720 --> 2:19:23.520 That's so good. 2:19:24.040 --> 2:19:27.800 Yeah, Emma. For someone who has tried to stay out 2:19:27.800 --> 2:19:32.440 of the public eye, you've still been vocal about causes. 2:19:32.480 --> 2:19:36.400 You believe in things that you stand for, yes, and 2:19:37.080 --> 2:19:41.600 that always seems to get attention and reaction. And so 2:19:42.040 --> 2:19:48.320 when you shared online your solidarity for Palestine, the former 2:19:48.480 --> 2:19:53.040 Israeli you an ambassador. Danny Dunnan called you an anti 2:19:53.080 --> 2:19:57.640 Semite and and his tweet said ten points from Gryffindor 2:19:57.959 --> 2:20:02.600 for being an anti Semite. What goes through your mind 2:20:02.720 --> 2:20:06.000 when you see that this happened? 2:20:07.040 --> 2:20:09.360 This happened a few years ago. Now. I think what 2:20:09.480 --> 2:20:12.920 concerned me at the time was the way that that 2:20:13.080 --> 2:20:19.520 label was being used. And I think even now I 2:20:19.680 --> 2:20:25.360 see that playing out where we aren't people don't feel 2:20:25.400 --> 2:20:33.000 like they can talk about what's happening safely. This duality 2:20:33.080 --> 2:20:37.520 created where we don't seem able to care about the 2:20:37.640 --> 2:20:44.640 victims of terrorism and care about the genocide that's happening 2:20:44.840 --> 2:20:49.119 in Palestine at the same time, and both things have 2:20:49.360 --> 2:20:52.600 to be allowed to be true. You have to be 2:20:52.640 --> 2:20:57.800 allowed to care about fifty thousand civilians dying, seventeen thousand 2:20:57.800 --> 2:21:05.440 of which are children, and care deeply about the victims 2:21:05.640 --> 2:21:07.760 of this awful terrorist attack. 2:21:08.160 --> 2:21:12.000 I appreciate you sharing that. And Yeah, it seems like 2:21:12.040 --> 2:21:15.920 that belief system you have in yes and in this 2:21:16.120 --> 2:21:19.640 and it kind of runs through so many yeah areas 2:21:19.680 --> 2:21:22.640 of your life, Yeah, personal and beyond. 2:21:23.400 --> 2:21:28.080 Yes. I think that's I think that's true. I think 2:21:28.080 --> 2:21:28.640 that's true. 2:21:29.200 --> 2:21:32.119 I hope that you've felt you've been able to share 2:21:32.120 --> 2:21:34.800 the parts of yourself and the version of yourself that 2:21:34.840 --> 2:21:38.920 you wanted to and intended to. I hope. 2:21:38.920 --> 2:21:42.600 So I feel very hot, and I feel very hot, 2:21:43.080 --> 2:21:46.720 and I feel a little bit like is this room 2:21:46.760 --> 2:21:49.800 even real? Like are we Is this like a god 2:21:49.800 --> 2:21:52.840 our play? Well, like in some sort of existential room 2:21:52.879 --> 2:21:57.080 that doesn't exist. I feel a little bit like that. 2:21:57.480 --> 2:21:59.640 But as long as this was real and these are 2:21:59.760 --> 2:22:03.400 these falls are actually here, then yes, I do feel 2:22:03.400 --> 2:22:08.240 that way, and I or like I've done everything I 2:22:08.280 --> 2:22:11.680 can in a context that's still I can still see 2:22:11.720 --> 2:22:15.080 cameras and lights, and I know there's a person behind me. 2:22:15.200 --> 2:22:19.160 But I feel, to the extent to which I can 2:22:19.280 --> 2:22:24.120 humanly do, that I've shown up for myself and for 2:22:25.000 --> 2:22:27.960 you in a way, and the invitation that this podcast 2:22:28.240 --> 2:22:29.720 is and the work that you do in the world, 2:22:30.160 --> 2:22:36.440 I've answered that invitation. So I feel I feel good 2:22:36.440 --> 2:22:38.560 about that, and I've. 2:22:38.400 --> 2:22:39.640 Got I know it's a bit hot, but I've got 2:22:39.680 --> 2:22:45.520 a couple of questions. Episode. Yes, these are your final five. 2:22:46.200 --> 2:22:48.760 They have to be answering one word to one sentence maximum. 2:22:48.800 --> 2:22:51.840 But okay, I will probably ignore that rule, as I 2:22:51.879 --> 2:22:56.680 always do amazing. So question number one, okay, is we 2:22:56.720 --> 2:22:58.440 ask these to everyone who's ever been on the show, 2:22:58.440 --> 2:23:00.840 what is the best advice you've ever heard or received. 2:23:02.440 --> 2:23:05.960 I'm going to cheat slightly if you'll allow it. 2:23:06.240 --> 2:23:06.440 Yeah. 2:23:07.200 --> 2:23:11.320 I read Emergen Strategy by Adrian Marie Brown, was given 2:23:11.320 --> 2:23:13.879 to me as a gift by my friend A Marie 2:23:13.879 --> 2:23:19.680 for my thirtieth birthday. And I think that being a good, 2:23:19.920 --> 2:23:25.120 pious Protestant English girl, I really believed that if I 2:23:25.240 --> 2:23:29.840 worked hard enough, and if I was kind of saintly enough, 2:23:29.920 --> 2:23:33.280 that someone would see my good deeds and all of 2:23:33.320 --> 2:23:36.640 my hard work and like give me the sticker, you know, 2:23:36.720 --> 2:23:41.240 give me their like give me the star, and so 2:23:41.240 --> 2:23:46.600 so I kind of martyrdom was part of my sort 2:23:46.640 --> 2:23:51.640 of I understood was important in my and I think 2:23:51.680 --> 2:23:59.000 reading her book and reading about pleasure activism, which is 2:23:59.040 --> 2:24:03.360 sort of the idea that, like anything that you need 2:24:03.480 --> 2:24:09.320 to that you want to sustain, EG. Justice, EG. You 2:24:09.440 --> 2:24:11.400 need it to be easy and you need it to 2:24:11.440 --> 2:24:13.600 be pleasurable in a way, because that's what's going to 2:24:13.640 --> 2:24:15.760 mean that you'll be able to do it. For a 2:24:15.800 --> 2:24:21.120 long time. Part of my burnout was that I wasn't 2:24:22.000 --> 2:24:27.280 prioritizing pleasure and joy as kind of like underpinning for 2:24:27.360 --> 2:24:32.200 even some of the harder, more somber, cerebral things that 2:24:32.280 --> 2:24:38.840 I was doing. And I think that changed my life. 2:24:39.800 --> 2:24:42.960 And I think we also have a model, particularly within 2:24:44.000 --> 2:24:50.080 activism and and lots of spaces that like this kind 2:24:50.160 --> 2:24:55.240 of sole individual, charismatic leader. And I like you, you know, 2:24:56.440 --> 2:25:00.039 my hero is always Martin, Luther King and Gandhi, and 2:25:00.720 --> 2:25:03.400 you just saw this sort of solitary person that was 2:25:03.480 --> 2:25:06.080 doing that. And I think if I could go back 2:25:06.120 --> 2:25:10.120 and do anything differently, it would be that when I 2:25:10.160 --> 2:25:13.360 embarked on some of the public activism that I did, 2:25:14.080 --> 2:25:15.959 I wouldn't go in the way I did. I would 2:25:16.000 --> 2:25:20.119 go in with what I have now, which is not 2:25:20.200 --> 2:25:23.440 just like an activist community, Like I have friends who 2:25:23.440 --> 2:25:25.440 can give me feedback and who I can talk to 2:25:25.680 --> 2:25:28.080 and who I feel that I'm not doing the work 2:25:28.720 --> 2:25:33.640 alone solo. However heroic that might look. Yeah, I guess 2:25:34.160 --> 2:25:37.640 heroicism and martyrdom the way the way that it was looked, 2:25:38.520 --> 2:25:42.240 maybe I just don't believe that's how we'll get the 2:25:42.320 --> 2:25:45.800 job done anymore. I think anything good will get done. 2:25:46.400 --> 2:25:49.039 So I think that book and I think that idea 2:25:49.879 --> 2:25:52.160 that revolutionized my approach. 2:25:52.440 --> 2:25:55.480 I love that. Yes, it's beautiful. I want to read 2:25:55.480 --> 2:25:55.959 that book now. 2:25:58.040 --> 2:25:58.680 Around the podcast. 2:25:59.040 --> 2:26:02.959 Yeah yeah. Question number two, what is the worst advice 2:26:03.000 --> 2:26:06.920 you've ever heard or received? Oh? So much? 2:26:08.080 --> 2:26:12.640 How long have you got? God? Mostly just like I 2:26:12.640 --> 2:26:15.520 think a lot of stuff around toughen up, bottle it up, 2:26:17.520 --> 2:26:20.720 deal with that later, you know, just like subtle versions 2:26:20.760 --> 2:26:23.920 of like well, maybe tell the truth, but just not 2:26:24.080 --> 2:26:27.440 all of it, Just like maybe just like tell like 2:26:27.520 --> 2:26:29.520 a little bit of it, but not like the whole thing, 2:26:29.879 --> 2:26:32.480 you know, because like the truth is. The problem with 2:26:32.560 --> 2:26:35.560 like telling three quarters of the truth is that then 2:26:35.600 --> 2:26:39.160 you're sort of in this like constant pealing and unpeeling 2:26:39.200 --> 2:26:42.000 of yourself where you sort of like you're sort of 2:26:42.040 --> 2:26:44.480 trying to do it, but you're not quite doing it. 2:26:44.600 --> 2:26:47.720 And I don't know, I think a lot of advice 2:26:47.760 --> 2:26:50.640 around that. Also, anyone that tells you not to do 2:26:50.720 --> 2:26:55.320 what you love terrible advice. Doing what you love will 2:26:55.400 --> 2:26:56.959 lead you where you need to go, even if you 2:26:57.000 --> 2:26:58.160 can't see it at the time. 2:27:05.040 --> 2:27:14.760 Yeah, yeah, terrible terrible beauty tips advice I've given a wrap, 2:27:14.840 --> 2:27:18.240 like I don't know, just like, oh God, all again, 2:27:18.320 --> 2:27:21.000 Like back to our previous conversation, all the ridiculous things 2:27:21.040 --> 2:27:23.600 that you are encouraged to try and do as a. 2:27:23.560 --> 2:27:28.320 Woman, like fake tan, and I mean it's hilarious. I 2:27:28.480 --> 2:27:32.760 actually right now it might be like well covered up, 2:27:32.800 --> 2:27:36.400 but I accidentally have a bottle of fake tan in 2:27:36.400 --> 2:27:39.039 my bathroom and in my jet lag state. Last night, 2:27:39.120 --> 2:27:41.200 I thought I was putting moisturizer on, but now I 2:27:41.240 --> 2:27:46.200 have like these like horrific fake tan mark on my 2:27:46.360 --> 2:27:49.360 legs and feet. I guess I'm just thinking about just like, 2:27:49.680 --> 2:27:52.800 oh my god. And recently I was like, okay, I 2:27:52.879 --> 2:27:55.959 want to get my teeth whitened, and I looked like 2:27:56.080 --> 2:27:58.560 Ross from Friends when he'd had that awful fake tanning 2:27:58.560 --> 2:28:00.800 accident because they were just you too white. And then 2:28:00.800 --> 2:28:03.160 I had just spent go back for two other visits 2:28:03.160 --> 2:28:05.320 to get the dentist to put my teeth back to 2:28:05.520 --> 2:28:08.000 my normal teeth. So I guess I was just laughing 2:28:08.120 --> 2:28:11.160 thinking about like worst advice is just like don't ever 2:28:11.320 --> 2:28:16.600 listen to beauty technicians or anyone advising you to do 2:28:16.640 --> 2:28:20.600 anything weird to your body, face appearance. Just just don't 2:28:20.840 --> 2:28:22.840 don't listen, don't don't take the bait. 2:28:23.000 --> 2:28:29.120 Just don't do it so good. Question number three, how 2:28:29.120 --> 2:28:32.120 are you? How are you now going to choose work 2:28:32.240 --> 2:28:34.680 projects or activism differently? 2:28:35.600 --> 2:28:39.200 Does the person that's asking me to do something with them? 2:28:39.879 --> 2:28:42.640 Can they confidently look at me and say that they 2:28:42.680 --> 2:28:45.800 care about me far more than like what we're producing, 2:28:46.080 --> 2:28:49.960 and and do I care about them that way. One 2:28:50.000 --> 2:28:53.520 of my favorite people I worked with Steve Tebowski. I 2:28:53.600 --> 2:29:00.280 remember him leaving what was a very productive rehearse or 2:29:00.280 --> 2:29:04.280 script meeting with Logan lermon Azramilla and I and he 2:29:04.440 --> 2:29:05.879 was like, I need to go and be with my 2:29:05.920 --> 2:29:08.840 wife now, and we were like, I don't think I've 2:29:08.840 --> 2:29:10.760 ever heard I mean, at that point, I certainly hadn't 2:29:10.800 --> 2:29:13.280 ever heard a director in my career say they needed 2:29:13.280 --> 2:29:16.680 to leave for a personal reason or for a personal relationship. 2:29:17.000 --> 2:29:19.320 But I worked far harder for Steve than I worked 2:29:19.320 --> 2:29:22.400 for any other director, because I think I was able 2:29:22.440 --> 2:29:25.360 to give a far more vulnerable performance in that film, 2:29:25.400 --> 2:29:31.240 because I felt that he really cared about me beyond 2:29:31.800 --> 2:29:34.680 the product of the film. And I want to work 2:29:34.720 --> 2:29:38.720 with people like that who for whom the process is 2:29:38.760 --> 2:29:41.760 as important as the outcome, and the people that are 2:29:41.800 --> 2:29:45.360 part of it are more important than whatever the outcome is. 2:29:45.640 --> 2:29:48.200 I think this is a really difficult thing that I 2:29:48.280 --> 2:29:52.000 see everywhere in the world right now, is that we 2:29:52.040 --> 2:29:56.480 treat objects and things like their sacred and we don't 2:29:56.600 --> 2:30:02.119 treat people like they're the sacred thing. And that's which, Yeah, 2:30:02.400 --> 2:30:05.520 I think it causes a lot of pain. 2:30:05.879 --> 2:30:07.360 And there's something that you told me when we were 2:30:07.360 --> 2:30:10.800 speaking on the phone, was that you've been working with 2:30:10.840 --> 2:30:14.040 the young people on helping them with some of the 2:30:14.160 --> 2:30:16.680 challenges that you've faced in your own career, in your 2:30:16.720 --> 2:30:20.760 own life. Yeah, And I remember being so attached by that, 2:30:20.840 --> 2:30:22.800 and I wanted to learn more and for you to 2:30:22.840 --> 2:30:26.160 share it because I, yeah, I just think it's really special. 2:30:26.200 --> 2:30:27.720 And I was sharing it with's on my team before 2:30:28.160 --> 2:30:30.760 you arrived, and everyone was quite drawn to it. 2:30:30.840 --> 2:30:36.960 So as a young person, and you know, as I 2:30:37.160 --> 2:30:40.480 basically shared, over however long it's been that we've been speaking, 2:30:40.760 --> 2:30:47.160 I just really needed to be having more conversations with 2:30:47.160 --> 2:30:50.520 people my own age and people that were older than me. 2:30:50.720 --> 2:30:54.320 I feel like I tried to navigate so many problems 2:30:55.240 --> 2:30:59.160 on my own and I just didn't know who to 2:30:59.400 --> 2:31:01.959 really to and I was speaking to such a narrow 2:31:02.040 --> 2:31:05.560 group of people about what I was trying to navigate, 2:31:05.640 --> 2:31:10.920 and I just I think that working with young people 2:31:11.160 --> 2:31:17.800 and giving them each other and also the space, the reason, 2:31:17.920 --> 2:31:22.200 the excuses to talk about the things that we don't 2:31:22.640 --> 2:31:27.240 talk about or create spaces for, has been the most gratifying, 2:31:28.720 --> 2:31:33.160 the most purposeful and of service I felt in a 2:31:33.200 --> 2:31:38.160 long time, because it turns out pretty often that a 2:31:38.200 --> 2:31:41.520 lot of the things that we're struggling with, other people 2:31:41.520 --> 2:31:44.959 are struggling with as well, And so in a way, 2:31:45.120 --> 2:31:48.480 going back around and trying to put out into the 2:31:48.480 --> 2:31:50.280 world a lot of the things that I knew I 2:31:50.360 --> 2:31:53.480 needed as a young person and didn't get it's been 2:31:53.520 --> 2:31:58.400 the most the best, most gratifying thing. And I feel 2:31:58.440 --> 2:32:00.400 really lucky to be in a position and in a 2:32:00.440 --> 2:32:05.040 place where I can say and no, like like I've 2:32:05.240 --> 2:32:10.080 kind of done this treacherous journey, and I think that 2:32:11.680 --> 2:32:14.720 I think I might have some ideas about what might 2:32:14.760 --> 2:32:16.480 be needed for someone to come out the other side 2:32:16.520 --> 2:32:19.840 of that safely. So it feels good to be of use. 2:32:21.280 --> 2:32:22.720 Five A question We asked this to every guest who's 2:32:22.760 --> 2:32:24.880 ever been on the show. If you could create one 2:32:25.000 --> 2:32:27.520 law that everyone in the world had to follow, what 2:32:27.560 --> 2:32:28.120 would it be? 2:32:30.680 --> 2:32:30.920 Oh? 2:32:30.959 --> 2:32:38.320 Wow, one law. Okay, there's a couple of contenders. I 2:32:38.400 --> 2:32:41.080 want to run you the wrong one is going to 2:32:41.160 --> 2:32:46.000 be okay, great, perfect one would be around the importance 2:32:46.200 --> 2:32:50.320 of telling the truth, or like speaking your truth, or 2:32:51.400 --> 2:32:55.800 just because I feel like so much, so much chaos 2:32:55.920 --> 2:32:58.879 is caused by people not being sure whether or not 2:32:59.000 --> 2:33:02.200 they should or it's to go idea too or I 2:33:02.280 --> 2:33:05.879 think that would be a pretty amazing one. Another contender, 2:33:06.080 --> 2:33:08.039 I mean, it's the obvious one is to treat other 2:33:08.040 --> 2:33:10.840 people as you would like to be treated. I would 2:33:10.879 --> 2:33:12.959 obviously solve a lot of problems as well. 2:33:13.400 --> 2:33:14.039 I like that one. 2:33:14.080 --> 2:33:15.480 You give the last one? 2:33:15.560 --> 2:33:17.959 Yeah, the first one? Yeah? 2:33:18.000 --> 2:33:20.760 The truth? Yeah, I guess it took me a long 2:33:20.920 --> 2:33:26.240 time and probably probably through doing my yoga teacher training. 2:33:26.520 --> 2:33:29.039 Is speaking truth with kindness is one of the first 2:33:29.360 --> 2:33:32.600 Nyama's right, very disappointed. I can't remember what the word 2:33:32.640 --> 2:33:36.200 is in not sad maybe yeah, speaking the truth with 2:33:36.280 --> 2:33:39.000 kind like speaking the truth with kindness, that's an amazing 2:33:39.120 --> 2:33:43.840 There's an amazing quote, which actually is it was given 2:33:43.840 --> 2:33:45.920 to be recently by a friend, which is like the 2:33:45.959 --> 2:33:52.439 truth the truth without kindness is brutality, and kindness without 2:33:53.600 --> 2:34:00.039 truth is manipulation. A truth without kindness is brutality, and 2:34:01.280 --> 2:34:05.280 kindness without truth is manipulation. And so when I say, like, 2:34:05.360 --> 2:34:07.680 tell your truth, I don't mean going around like just 2:34:07.720 --> 2:34:13.440 being awful to everyone. I mean like telling the microscopic 2:34:13.520 --> 2:34:17.120 truth and like having those being willing to have a 2:34:17.200 --> 2:34:20.480 tolerance for those conversations. One of my favorite metaphors I 2:34:20.480 --> 2:34:23.320 actually wrote about this recently for being in a relationship 2:34:23.360 --> 2:34:26.080 with anyone is like you're in it's in a way, 2:34:26.160 --> 2:34:28.280 it's it's a dance, it's a fight, Like I think 2:34:28.320 --> 2:34:31.440 about boxing in the sense of like who is going 2:34:31.480 --> 2:34:33.120 to go down to the mat with you and like 2:34:33.240 --> 2:34:37.520 not tap out? Because being honest about what's really going 2:34:37.560 --> 2:34:41.560 on is uncomfortable and it's risky. As we talked about earlier, 2:34:41.600 --> 2:34:44.480 you risk every time you tell the truth of maybe 2:34:44.560 --> 2:34:46.680 losing someone that you love because you don't know how 2:34:46.760 --> 2:34:49.320 they can respond to whatever your truth is. But I 2:34:49.320 --> 2:34:52.760 think to live that way creates the intimacy and connection 2:34:52.879 --> 2:34:57.160 that I think we long for, and also like sets 2:34:57.200 --> 2:35:01.600 people free in a way you and them. Truth. Yeah, 2:35:01.600 --> 2:35:03.760 truth with kindness, I think that's I think that's going 2:35:03.840 --> 2:35:07.160 to have to be my choice. Yeah, by factor of deduction. 2:35:07.440 --> 2:35:11.440 Yeah, the bugle Ghita gives four principles for truth with kindness. 2:35:11.440 --> 2:35:13.760 The first is what you speak should be truthful. 2:35:13.879 --> 2:35:14.160 Yes. 2:35:14.520 --> 2:35:18.120 The second is it should be beneficial to all Oh. 2:35:18.320 --> 2:35:21.640 The third is it shouldn't agitate the minds of others. 2:35:21.920 --> 2:35:22.680 Wow. 2:35:23.120 --> 2:35:25.960 And the fourth is it should be aligned with eternal 2:35:26.000 --> 2:35:27.760 wisdom and timeless wisdom. 2:35:28.120 --> 2:35:32.920 That's beautiful and perfect, because yeah, I think there's truth 2:35:33.080 --> 2:35:36.800 which are if they're not beneficial, that do just agitate. 2:35:37.520 --> 2:35:40.200 I think that's and it's not about not saying it. 2:35:40.200 --> 2:35:43.240 It's the idea that you've thought so much about how 2:35:43.280 --> 2:35:45.959 you say it. Yes, it's not that you've sanitized it, 2:35:46.000 --> 2:35:48.400 because that's the modern day version. The Geeta is not 2:35:48.480 --> 2:35:51.280 telling you to sanitize or be silenced, right, it's telling 2:35:51.320 --> 2:35:54.480 you to filter your thought to make sure that the 2:35:54.520 --> 2:35:58.200 way you say it is digestible yes for everyone who's 2:35:58.200 --> 2:36:01.080 going to hear it, and therefore it actually transformative power. 2:36:01.560 --> 2:36:04.040 It's not that it's not provocative or that it doesn't. 2:36:04.240 --> 2:36:05.920 It's just that you're not saying it in a way 2:36:05.959 --> 2:36:08.560 to trigger or get a reaction. You're saying in a 2:36:08.560 --> 2:36:11.120 way that hits someone like an arrow of truth. Wow, 2:36:11.160 --> 2:36:14.959 it goes I have to change. Wow, because that person 2:36:15.000 --> 2:36:17.120 has been so mindful of how they spoke. 2:36:17.400 --> 2:36:20.959 Oh my god, that's incredible as everything I've just been 2:36:21.000 --> 2:36:25.080 trying to say about. Yeah, if we got if everyone 2:36:25.160 --> 2:36:28.640 was mindful enough about how they spoke their truth, that 2:36:28.720 --> 2:36:30.920 it could just go straight to the heart. 2:36:31.680 --> 2:36:35.160 Oh, rather than hit the ego. 2:36:35.000 --> 2:36:36.520 Along the way. 2:36:36.800 --> 2:36:40.600 That's why we can't talk, because everything we say triggers 2:36:40.600 --> 2:36:43.360 someone's mind or their ego, and then everything we say 2:36:43.560 --> 2:36:45.959 does it back. And so now we're having a mind 2:36:46.000 --> 2:36:49.520 and ego debate, which isn't the one that goes all 2:36:49.560 --> 2:36:51.119 the way to tap you know, in your. 2:36:51.360 --> 2:36:53.720 We're so focused on defending whatever the thing is that 2:36:53.760 --> 2:36:55.640 we feel that we need to defend that we just 2:36:55.680 --> 2:37:02.080 can't heart. No, you can't hit the heart. So good, so. 2:37:01.959 --> 2:37:07.000 Good, Emma, thank you for thanks. The longest recorded conversation 2:37:08.000 --> 2:37:13.520 on purpose history. We have to change the cards, the 2:37:13.520 --> 2:37:15.800 cameras we had to like and we haven't paused, just 2:37:15.840 --> 2:37:19.080 to everyone knows, and Emma have not moved. So we 2:37:19.120 --> 2:37:21.520 didn't take a break. There was no bathroom break. No, 2:37:21.680 --> 2:37:24.680 there was no break of whatever kind of sat. There 2:37:24.680 --> 2:37:26.920 was no coffee break. We have sat in these seats 2:37:27.160 --> 2:37:29.520 for the entire duration that you watched the show or 2:37:29.560 --> 2:37:33.400 listen to it. And to Emma, you have the you 2:37:33.400 --> 2:37:36.120 know to your competitive and winning spirit, you have the 2:37:36.480 --> 2:37:39.120 award for longest ever podcast record. 2:37:39.200 --> 2:37:44.280 I don't know whether to be mortified or like seriously embarrassed, 2:37:44.480 --> 2:37:48.160 or or like feel like this is some kind of 2:37:48.240 --> 2:37:50.080 victory of some kind. I guess you sat here for 2:37:50.200 --> 2:37:52.640 like and not moved for more than three hours. 2:37:53.600 --> 2:37:55.120 Surely it's amazing. 2:37:55.760 --> 2:37:58.200 That's amazing. Well, thank you for thank you so much. 2:37:58.240 --> 2:37:59.640 That's been such an amazing conversation. 2:38:00.040 --> 2:38:02.920 If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with 2:38:03.080 --> 2:38:07.320 doctor Gable Matte on understanding your trauma and how to 2:38:07.400 --> 2:38:11.039 heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past. 2:38:11.400 --> 2:38:13.960 Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a 2:38:14.240 --> 2:38:16.520 tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it. 2:38:16.520 --> 2:38:18.880 It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.