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Speaker 1: I realized have the career and the life that looks

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Speaker 1: like the dream. But are you really happy? Emma? Are

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Speaker 1: you really healthy? And have to admit to myself that

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Speaker 1: I wasn't was one of the scariest things I've ever

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Speaker 1: had to do.

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Speaker 2: The number one health and wellness podcast Shed j Shenny

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Speaker 2: Shed Emma, welcome to on Purpose. I'm so grateful that

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Speaker 2: you're here. And you know you've kind of been out

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Speaker 2: of the public eye for a while now. Yes, and

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Speaker 2: don't do that many interviews. I've watched the interviews you

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Speaker 2: have done even before we plan to do this, and

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Speaker 2: I wanted to ask from an intention point almost why now?

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Speaker 2: Why today? Why here?

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Speaker 1: I think I mentioned but I read your book because

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Speaker 1: my dear friend Nupah told me that I should, and

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Speaker 1: every now and again I would see you come up

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Speaker 1: on my feed. I don't spend much time on Instagram anymore,

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Speaker 1: but when I did, I just felt like you were

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Speaker 1: having a different conversation. And it's not that I have

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Speaker 1: stopped doing interviews because I want to hide myself away.

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Speaker 1: I think it's because I wanted to be able to

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Speaker 1: have a certain type of conversation that I didn't seem

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Speaker 1: able to find a space for and so I called

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Speaker 1: Nooper and said, I think I just reached out to

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Speaker 1: Jay to see if you would let me come into

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Speaker 1: this podcast on Monday. And she was like, I've been

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Speaker 1: waiting for this. I wondered when you would do this.

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Speaker 1: I was like, how did you know I was going

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Speaker 1: to do it. She's like, I don't know. I just

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Speaker 1: felt like this was coming. So here I am, and

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Speaker 1: you said yes, and the timing worked. I contacted you

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Speaker 1: last week and it's Monday, and so.

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Speaker 2: Well from well, that means the world to me. Truly,

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Speaker 2: I'm so grateful for that because the few interactions and

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Speaker 2: conversations we've had since then, and you've sent me a

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Speaker 2: few things to read over, whether it's journals or reflections,

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Speaker 2: and honestly, I think I just said it to you

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Speaker 2: a few moments ago, and I mean it, even if

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Speaker 2: we weren't having this conversation today and you just sent

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Speaker 2: me those things to reflect on myself, that would have

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Speaker 2: already been a gift. And so the opportunity to actually

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Speaker 2: sit with you and to talk about these things and

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Speaker 2: have this space to have a conversation that you feel

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Speaker 2: you haven't had before means the world to me, and

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Speaker 2: so thank you for trusting me, and I look forward

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Speaker 2: to getting to know you so much better. But let's

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Speaker 2: dive in. I wanted I wanted to start by asking you, like,

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Speaker 2: you said something there that was really beautiful because you

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Speaker 2: stopped for a moment. Then you said, it's easier to

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Speaker 2: be honest, and I was like, I wanted to understand

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Speaker 2: what that meant to you and how that feels.

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Speaker 1: Such a big part of my job was trying to

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Speaker 1: think three steps ahead of how everything that I would

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Speaker 1: say would be could negatively impact the film that I

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Speaker 1: was trying to do justice to and do service to

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Speaker 1: and make sure that people understood what the director had intended.

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Speaker 1: And I felt this enormous sense of responsibility all the

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Speaker 1: time to honor so many people's work that put to

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Speaker 1: gather something like a film or you know, even to

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Speaker 1: some degree. I just did a fragrance with Prada and

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Speaker 1: it's the first perfume bottle that you can like refill,

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, I take my job seriously, I guess,

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Speaker 1: and so interviews to me felt a lot like chess,

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Speaker 1: and it required so much energy, and I think, what's

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Speaker 1: nice about the way that I'm showing up today is

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Speaker 1: I'm just showing up for myself and for once, I

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Speaker 1: actually I'm not here to speak on behalf of anyone

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Speaker 1: else or anything else other than myself, which is unusual.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's such a fascinating thing because as

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Speaker 2: a viewer, even before I got closer to the industry,

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Speaker 2: as a viewer, everything's made to feel in traditional media

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Speaker 2: so easy, and it has levity and it feels like

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Speaker 2: you're getting someone's real personality, and then you realize that

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Speaker 2: you are. There's definitely reality to it and truth to it. Yes,

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Speaker 2: same time, naturally, it's work, Yeah, and there's a job,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's not as and you can shed

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Speaker 2: more light on this. I don't think it's always as

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Speaker 2: insidious or as dark as people may think it is.

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Speaker 2: But there's just it's a job and it's work, and

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Speaker 2: there's results that matter the right one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: And I think within those contexts, everyone is trying to

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Speaker 1: be as authentic as they humanly can be. But there's

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Speaker 1: something about I think it's what I mentioned earlier about

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Speaker 1: why I felt like this was a good space. There's

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Speaker 1: something inherently written into certain types of forms of media

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Speaker 1: which is that it doesn't matter what intentional or how

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Speaker 1: authentically you want to show up, but the form somehow

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Speaker 1: doesn't allow it. Yeah, to some degree, And I've become

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Speaker 1: obsessed with this recently. I've been looking at, Okay, what

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Speaker 1: is written into the form of something like Twitter or

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Speaker 1: Instagram or TikTok, or a podcast versus or a photograph

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Speaker 1: versus a film versus a piece of writing, And it's

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Speaker 1: really interesting to see what a different medium or different

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Speaker 1: form allows or doesn't allow, and or like actually creates

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Speaker 1: or encourages. I've never done a podcast before, but I

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Speaker 1: love I think what I love about it is the

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Speaker 1: is the intimacy of it. It's like, I feel like

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Speaker 1: people listen to podcasts when they're like I certainly do anyway,

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Speaker 1: Like first thing in the morning, when I'm taking my

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Speaker 1: shower or I'm going on my walk or I'm making

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Speaker 1: my breakfast. It's really like personal, intimate time. And I

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Speaker 1: think the long form version of these kinds of conversations

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Speaker 1: allows for such a different kind of discussion that I

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Speaker 1: don't think was possible before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I can agree with you more. I was

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Speaker 2: going to ask you, actually, because I want everyone to

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Speaker 2: get up to date with where you are now, Like

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Speaker 2: what is what is your day to day life look like?

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Speaker 2: You just said, like I wake up in a shower

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Speaker 2: and I've go on a walk, Like what does your

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Speaker 2: day to day life look like right now? And what

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Speaker 2: makes what's it made of? And one of the things

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Speaker 2: that you love and look forward to.

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Speaker 1: I recently started riding a bicycle, and yes, I said

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Speaker 1: riding my school before my driving ban, but now it's

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Speaker 1: acually for titus. But I also ride a bicycle for

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Speaker 1: that reason.

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Speaker 2: But that was mainstream news. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: I was getting phone called like it's on the BBC,

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Speaker 1: It's on international worldwide news. I was like, my shame

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Speaker 1: is everywhere? This is I mean what I say, it's

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think in a funny way. What

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Speaker 1: the sweetest result of it was getting so many messages

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Speaker 1: from being people being like, happen to me too, I

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Speaker 1: feel you. This is awful. It sucks, which was kind

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Speaker 1: of nice in a way, but yeah, totally do you

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Speaker 1: need a left It's like, actually yes, but I think again,

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Speaker 1: it's funny, like I went from when you work on movies,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if people know this, but like they

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Speaker 1: literally will not ensure you to drive yourself to work.

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Speaker 1: I've asked so many times, you have to be driven.

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Speaker 1: You have to be driven. It's like not a choice,

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Speaker 1: and especially because they need you there, you know, down

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Speaker 1: to the minute, basically depending on what they have going on.

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Speaker 1: And so I went from basically only driving myself on

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Speaker 1: week ordering holiday and then when I became student, driving

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Speaker 1: myself all the time. And yeah, I did not have

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Speaker 1: the experience or skills clearly which I now will and

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Speaker 1: and do. But I think again, this was one of

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Speaker 1: these like awkward transitions I made from kind of living

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Speaker 1: this like very very structured life to living a life

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Speaker 1: where I was like, Okay, I guess I'm going to

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Speaker 1: get myself to this place and I'm going to like

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Speaker 1: do this thing that I've basically not done since I

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Speaker 1: was ten years old. So it's been a discovery and

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Speaker 1: a journey that's been Yeah, I guess humbling because on

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Speaker 1: a movie SAT I'm able to do all of these

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Speaker 1: like extremely complex things stunts saying dance like do this thing,

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Speaker 1: do that whatever, and I'm like, yep, don't worry about it, guys,

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Speaker 1: no worries. I've got you. And then I get home

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Speaker 1: and I'm like Okay, Emma, you teom money able to

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Speaker 1: remember keys, you get money, able to like keep yourself

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Speaker 1: at thirty miles an hour in a thirty mins, I'll

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Speaker 1: speed limit, like you don't seem able to do some

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Speaker 1: pretty like basic life things. And it was definitely kind

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Speaker 1: of Yeah. I had days where I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: turn around to people and be like I used to

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Speaker 1: be good at things. Okay, I used to be really

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Speaker 1: good at things. And I know it doesn't look like

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Speaker 1: that right now, but I used to. I can do

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Speaker 1: things normally. So yeah, it's been it's been humbling.

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Speaker 2: I feel I feel like all of us. I feel

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Speaker 2: like all of us can relate to that, though, really,

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Speaker 2: because doesn't everyone forget their keys their wallet, doesn't know

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Speaker 2: where things are like these are these are like series.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, I was, I think I was

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Speaker 2: three points away from losing my license before I moved

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Speaker 2: to the States.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for that confession. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 2: So because I was in the States for I've been

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Speaker 2: in the States now for nine years, and I think

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Speaker 2: it happened just but then all the points get wiped

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Speaker 2: off and I think I'm now back to six points.

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Speaker 2: I spent two months in London a year. Okay, every

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Speaker 2: time I go back, I seem to.

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Speaker 1: Very much better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm confessing to.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people. Actually, a lot of people have

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Speaker 1: like taken it upon themselves to come and confess to me,

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Speaker 1: which I've found like very like very endearing and like

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Speaker 1: really really appreciate it. But no, I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think something I've been realizing is we most of

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Speaker 1: us live in a state of like, I'm just trying

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Speaker 1: to kind of figure it out and keep it together,

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Speaker 1: and the only thing that is different between us is

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Speaker 1: people's willingness to be honest about that, the degree to

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Speaker 1: which they can admit to actually I'm just like scrabbling

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Speaker 1: around trying to keep the reasons together versus oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, everything's amazing and everything's incredible and I'm having

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Speaker 1: the best day ever and aren't you? And you know

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Speaker 1: so I do love the people who are just willing

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Speaker 1: to be like, yeah, it's it's not going so well today,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, very amazing. What a good starting point? Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, failure as a starting point feels like

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Speaker 1: I feel like attempting things is so compelling, and of

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Speaker 1: course success is wonderful, But I love to see people

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Speaker 1: who are like, I'm really bad at this, but I'm

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Speaker 1: going to try. I love you. That's everything to me.

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Speaker 2: And that seems to be becoming harder and harder now,

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Speaker 2: Like that desire to attempt something that you would be

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Speaker 2: good at, Yeah, because it's exposed, or because everyone will

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Speaker 2: see it, or because everyone will hear about it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: talking about attempting things, I mean you're currently studying, right,

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Speaker 2: you're learning?

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Well, two things I want to say there

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Speaker 1: is I think in a way I was sort of

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm someone who's always cared about vulnerability and authenticity,

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Speaker 1: but I think I was also forced into it to

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Speaker 1: a degree that that maybe even I wasn't ready for,

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Speaker 1: and that like I just started so young that like

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Speaker 1: I had to learn in public. I had to make

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Speaker 1: mistakes in public and say, oh, okay, now I've learned this,

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Speaker 1: and I had to be willing to go back and

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Speaker 1: be like, hmm, like there are some gats here and

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Speaker 1: here's what I know now. And I think people's I

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Speaker 1: agree with you. I think it's becoming increasingly difficult to

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Speaker 1: learn in public and continuing to learn. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think that's one of the reasons why I have gone

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Speaker 1: back to school and why I continue to do it

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Speaker 1: is because I want to make sure that I have

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Speaker 1: things to say that are worth saying. And I think

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Speaker 1: you can only do that if you take a minute

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Speaker 1: sometimes and.

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Speaker 2: Listen to some.

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Speaker 1: People who aren't you, you know, like not just the

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Speaker 1: sound of my own, my own wonderful voice. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's been it's been great. And I think also I

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Speaker 1: needed to I wanted to be inspired. I think being

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Speaker 1: around my favorite piece has been being around young people

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Speaker 1: who still believe that the world is malleable and things

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Speaker 1: are changeable, and and that like anything can be done

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Speaker 1: is such important energy. There's so much dystopian fiction at

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Speaker 1: the moment, and dystopian movies so dark, and I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: what happened to thinking about the utopia? What happened to

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Speaker 1: like planning for the best case scenario? Like where where

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Speaker 1: did we lose? Yeah? Vision, excitement, imagination, possibility. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's been. Yeah, it's been wonderful to be around

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Speaker 1: young people and just to sit there and listen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you ever I mean, you clearly read so much.

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Speaker 1: Do you have to take yourself away to do it?

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Speaker 1: In order to be able to do it? Do you

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Speaker 1: have to call it an off time? Like, how are

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Speaker 1: you still managing to study and learn because that seems

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Speaker 1: like it's important to you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you reminded me as you were talking of one

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Speaker 2: of my spiritual teachers, my monk teacher, who always said

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Speaker 2: to me, if you want to move three steps forward,

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Speaker 2: you have to go three steps deep first.

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Speaker 1: WHOA.

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Speaker 2: And what I've found often in my life is I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to go four steps forward and i haven't yet

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Speaker 2: gone four steps deep. And so it's almost like, I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is probably a terrible analogy, but maybe thinking of

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Speaker 2: the movie The Substance, I don't know if you watched it,

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Speaker 2: get terrible, let's rema, no, no, no, let's forget about it.

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Speaker 2: But it's that idea of like every extra step you

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Speaker 2: take when you haven't learned, and you haven't experimented, and

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Speaker 2: you haven't attempted, is taking away from your ability to

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Speaker 2: move forward. And sometimes I think when we feel stuck,

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Speaker 2: or when we think things are not moving or they're

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Speaker 2: not progressing, we may be a signed to say, well,

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Speaker 2: pause and go deeper for a second, or pause and

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Speaker 2: go inward for a second. And so to me, hearing

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Speaker 2: that from you. I find that and I'm I definitely

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Speaker 2: fail at this all the time. There are so many

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Speaker 2: times I'm trying to push more forward than I've gone deep.

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Speaker 2: And so whenever I notice there myself and I notice

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Speaker 2: that I'm just kind of trying everything and nothing is working,

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Speaker 2: it's actually just the universe and self saying to me,

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Speaker 2: go read, go study. And so I've found that I've

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Speaker 2: had to really carve out time to make time to

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Speaker 2: do what I love, which is to read and study.

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Speaker 2: But I've found that I'm someone who doesn't love thirty

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Speaker 2: minutes a day. I'm not that kind of a reader.

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Speaker 2: I'm someone who needs to read for three or four hours,

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Speaker 2: if not more. And so I found that carving out deep,

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Speaker 2: immersive time is more important to me than this kind

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Speaker 2: of mechanical thirty forty minutes a day, which is great

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Speaker 2: for you if that works for you as a habit,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't for me because I'm a bit of an

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Speaker 2: extremist and I just need to spend a whole weekend reading, yeah,

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Speaker 2: as opposed to I don't need to read every day.

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Speaker 2: So I'll try, and I try once a month on

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Speaker 2: a weekend to just absorb into a subject that I love,

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Speaker 2: and I'll take a course, I'll go to a class,

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Speaker 2: I'll watch a Ted talk online, I'll read as many

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Speaker 2: books as I can, and I try and immerse myself

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Speaker 2: that way. What's your learning stuff?

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Speaker 1: I'm the same as you. And actually someone who I

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Speaker 1: really respect and ask for advice for offer and I

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Speaker 1: asked for feedback on myself. He said to me, Emma,

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Speaker 1: I think if you did ninety percent of what you

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Speaker 1: wanted to do at fifty percent of the speed, you

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Speaker 1: would get so much more like life would be so

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Speaker 1: much better. And I was like, wow, fifty percent of

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Speaker 1: the speed and only ninety percent of what I want

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Speaker 1: to do. And he was like, I think that's the

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Speaker 1: minimum to be honest, And I was like wow, But

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, what you said resonates. I think I

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Speaker 1: often have to remind myself that it's not about speedily

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Speaker 1: getting somewhere. It's just not the point. Things are supposed

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Speaker 1: to happen with a certain timing. And so, yeah, resonates,

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Speaker 1: And to your point, I cannot just sit for thirty

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Speaker 1: minutes and look at something I need. I need kind

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Speaker 1: of like a week on holiday, and then I'll start

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Speaker 1: to deeply get into something and I need quiet and

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Speaker 1: I hyper focus and I that's when I you know,

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Speaker 1: I love it, but I can't. I can't do a

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Speaker 1: little itty bitty bits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Nuts, it just doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't work. For you said that you felt that

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Speaker 2: you had to learn in public. Yeah, you made mistakes,

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Speaker 2: like what were mistakes that felt like mistakes then that

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Speaker 2: made you feel like, oh gosh, I made that mistake

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Speaker 2: in public. But I was ten years old or whatever

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Speaker 2: it was, and now you look back and you think, oh,

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Speaker 2: you know I was able to process it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the big one was feminism and intersectional feminism,

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Speaker 1: and frankly, it just like wasn't taught, you know, I

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Speaker 1: had to really seek out. And I'm really grateful actually

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Speaker 1: that I was in many ways quite lovingly called in

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Speaker 1: as opposed to I mean, some of it was not.

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Speaker 1: But I think that was definitely a moment where I

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Speaker 1: had to say, Okay, I'm talking about something really big

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Speaker 1: and important and it's actually really important to sit this

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Speaker 1: in some context, which I have not done. And I

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Speaker 1: think that was a big moment. I think it was

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Speaker 1: more there was an omission that there was things that

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Speaker 1: were missing as opposed to I had said something wrong.

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Speaker 1: I just needed I just needed to fill in more gaps.

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Speaker 1: And so that was when I started, or that was

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Speaker 1: actually in the middle. I had a feminist book club

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Speaker 1: called the Art Chared Sheelf, and so that was part

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Speaker 1: of those conversations. But it was a good moment for

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Speaker 1: me to learn that feeling uncomfortable sometimes is good. I

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Speaker 1: think we have an alarm system that goes off, which

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Speaker 1: is I'm uncomfortable. This feels uncomfortable, so something bad must

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Speaker 1: be happening, and I must leave as soon as possible.

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Speaker 1: And actually, I think that was when I started to learn, Oh,

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Speaker 1: actually me being uncomfortable in a space might be a

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Speaker 1: good sign because it might mean I'm about to learn something.

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Speaker 1: And I want to attribute this. That was Mara Ala

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Speaker 1: Rasai who who helped me understand that and was a

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Speaker 1: very very valuable teaching So now when I'm in a

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Speaker 1: space and listening to things and I feel uncomfortable, I

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Speaker 1: don't think it means I need to bolt or something

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Speaker 1: bad's happening. Yeah, maybe something really good it's about to happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. And I feel like that goes back to

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Speaker 2: what we started with, this idea of attempting means discomfort

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Speaker 2: means yeah, And I love I love that point you

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Speaker 2: made that. Actually, whenever we're sharing anything, it's not that

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Speaker 2: it's not true, it's that it's not complete. Yes, And

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Speaker 2: mostly when we see people say things or share ideas,

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Speaker 2: it's very rare to have anyone ever share a complete

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Speaker 2: idea because that means they would have had to think

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Speaker 2: about it from every single vantage point, which is not

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Speaker 2: even humanly possible.

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Speaker 1: It's not possible. It's not possible. And I think Adrian

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Speaker 1: Marie Brown, I don't know if you've ever had she's

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Speaker 1: she wrote an amazing book which is one of her

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Speaker 1: more recent ones were just called Loving Corrections, and she

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Speaker 1: speaks to kind of exactly this, which is, there's kind

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Speaker 1: of this like aya that we see online when people

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Speaker 1: don't attribute something perfectly to someone else or they're missing something,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, isn't the whole point of this that

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Speaker 1: we're in conversation And if it's the right person, you

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Speaker 1: can see that a good intention is there, then maybe

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Speaker 1: we can kind of do it in a way that

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Speaker 1: doesn't need to be Obviously, there's important time and place

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Speaker 1: for holding people accountable, but maybe I don't know, attributing

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Speaker 1: like great, we're all going to help each other, kind

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Speaker 1: of pad this out, fill this out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a hard I think that's the

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Speaker 2: hard part. It's like, how do you differentiate between holding

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Speaker 2: someone accountable I'm giving them grace. That's a really interesting

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Speaker 2: discussion in and of itself, and I don't think I

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Speaker 2: have the answer or know exactly what it is, but

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Speaker 2: I feel like that's a thought exercises humans that if

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Speaker 2: we were to do it would actually I don't know

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Speaker 2: what's your take.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the grace is attributing good intention, and the accountability

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Speaker 1: is the courage it takes to actually say something to

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Speaker 1: someone because it's such a scary thing to do and

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Speaker 1: it often requires a lot of emotional labor. And I

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Speaker 1: find this a lot as a woman, especially as a

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Speaker 1: woman who's dating that I will just be like, is

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Speaker 1: it worth me explaining? Is it worth me explaining this thing?

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Speaker 1: Should I just not take the time to do this,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes I will, really I care about doing it

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Speaker 1: kindly and compassionately, and it's very rare for me to

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Speaker 1: attribute bad intent to anyone. But you know, sometimes it

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Speaker 1: does fall on deaf ears and you're like that text

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Speaker 1: message took me like forty minutes, like to word perfectly

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Speaker 1: or that voice note or whatever. And you're like, is

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Speaker 1: this making a difference? Like am I getting through to

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Speaker 1: any is transformative justice?

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Speaker 3: Real?

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Speaker 1: Like this is this label worth it? But I think

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Speaker 1: I don't have a perfect answer.

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Speaker 4: I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I haven't lived through enough of it to know. I

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Speaker 1: guess I've just reached a point where it's like I'd

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Speaker 1: rather I'd rather die trying, I'd rather die having tried.

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Speaker 1: And maybe some small piece of it, even if it's

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Speaker 1: not now, even if it's some future point, like something

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Speaker 1: I've said just like goes oh something, but the back

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Speaker 1: of my mind here someone says something to me, Then

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's worth it.

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Speaker 2: When you think about little Lemma, Yes, what was a

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Speaker 2: childhood memory that you have, a core memory that you

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Speaker 2: have that you feel has defined who you are today somewhat.

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Speaker 1: I think I won't share the specific memory because it's

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Speaker 1: so personal. But I think I've always felt other people's

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Speaker 1: pain very intensely, until maybe recently, I did not know

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Speaker 1: how to give myself grace and navigate seeing my sensitivity

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Speaker 1: as a strength and knowing that it's like my gift.

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Speaker 1: But it also means I have to care for it

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Speaker 1: in specific ways. When you are given gifts, there's often

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Speaker 1: kind of have to compensate in some other ways. And

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Speaker 1: in the same way that my position in life and

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Speaker 1: fame has given me this extraordinary power, it's also given

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Speaker 1: me a lot of responsibility. And these things often have

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Speaker 1: these kind of I don't know when or why it started,

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Speaker 1: but I think I've always whoever it was that was

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Speaker 1: suffering in the room, I was always the most aware

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Speaker 1: of them, and I think that has formed a lot

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Speaker 1: of why I could act. It was almost like I

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Speaker 1: was kind of sucking all of this in and then

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Speaker 1: I needed to let it out somewhere or unleash it somewhere.

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Speaker 1: And I remember when my parents saw me on stage

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Speaker 1: for the first time. Afterwards, they were just like, where

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Speaker 1: did that come from? You don't have any of these experiences.

434
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: I recorded a song for my twelfth birthday. My mum

435
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: bought me a day in a recording studio, and I

436
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: sing Natalie and really torn, like I've had my heartbroken

437
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: fifty thousand times, you know, Like I've been married and

438
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: divorced and whatever, and I'm twelve. I've never had a

439
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 1: boyfriend and I don't know anything about love.

440
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 2: Have you ever thought about where it came from? More?

441
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: I would imagine, I can't say for sure, I would

442
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 1: imagine that my family structure has not been a traditional

443
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 1: family structure, and that feeling of knowing that I'm from

444
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: a situation where we just don't quite fit the kind

445
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: of nuclear family mold. And I think coming back from

446
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,479
Speaker 1: France and trying to figure out how to sort of

447
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: integrate and being the eldest and having my younger brother

448
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: and having my mom and like trying to sort of

449
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 1: be some sort of glue or holding together for everyone's feelings.

450
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's probably where it That's where it started. Yeah.

451
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: And then I guess just being aware of other people

452
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,959
Speaker 1: who might feel the way I did, which is like

453
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: who else in here doesn't feel like they quite fit?

454
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 2: I've always found that it took me a while to recognize,

455
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 2: but when I did, it was so helpful. That a

456
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 2: lot of what I do today is because I mediated

457
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 2: my parents' marriage growing on. Yeah, and so I developed

458
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: all these skills of listening and empathy and grace and

459
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 2: compassion because I was doing it for two people that

460
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 2: I love, Yes, and I see it as a strength,

461
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 2: and yes, it comes with it comes with certain things.

462
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: For sure, it comes You're absolutely right. But at the

463
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 2: same time, I've always seen it as a strength. Yes,

464
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 2: And it's something that has served me well in my marriage,

465
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 2: it served me well in my relationships. And at the

466
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 2: same time, it has certain consequences that make you different

467
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: or make you process things differently. And so yeah, And

468
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 2: I remember one thing you shared with me that I

469
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 2: was reading it. You said, I used to spend my

470
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 2: weekdays with Mum and my weekends with dad, and you

471
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 2: said it almost felt like you were changing costumes sometimes. Yes,

472
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 2: and they're all like this two lives kind of Yes, Yes,

473
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 2: And I feel that's so relatable. I feel like so

474
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 2: many people can relate to that, whether whether their family

475
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,479
Speaker 2: was more traditional or wasn't. I think every child has

476
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: had this feeling of not fitting in quite and knowing

477
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 2: which life they're meant to lead, and that feels like

478
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: it's kind of played into yours.

479
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: Yes, for sure. I think it's also why I've had

480
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: to really navigate my relationship towards art and acting, because

481
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that I was using acting as a

482
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: way of escaping how painful my parents, Like, it wasn't

483
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: just the divorce, it was just like the continuing situation

484
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: of living between two different houses and two different lives

485
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: and two different sets of values, and as a child,

486
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: like being aware of like, hmm, we don't quite have

487
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: the support we need here for this, like this is

488
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:11,239
Speaker 1: not quite We're not quite like and I think it

489
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: does it makes you. It made me a slightly serious

490
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: child because I was like, had that consciousness, and then

491
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: when I would go and spend the weekend with my dad,

492
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: it was like a very different set of rules, very

493
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: different situation. And so you do you kind of like

494
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: and I think everyone can relate to this to an

495
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: extent that it's not that you are like wanting to

496
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: become different people, but it's there are different expectations of

497
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: you in different places that you understand that you need

498
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: to fill. And so I think some of that split

499
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: then became I was like, Okay, wow, you know my

500
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: parents have very different views on different things. And the

501
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: hard part of that was that no one gave me

502
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: any easy answers. It meant I had to form all

503
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: of my own opinions myself because there was no consensus,

504
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: and it made me a critical thinker for sure, because

505
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: and so that was amazing and also really like, gosh, okay,

506
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: I need to decide what I think is important in

507
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 1: life and what my opinions are. No one's handing me this.

508
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 5: Yeah.

509
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: Maybe it also made me aware of not wanting to

510
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: be so split as well, and why it's been important

511
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: to me to try to remain whole in all the

512
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: different circumstances of my life and ask myself questions about

513
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: how I can do that best, because I think I

514
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: experienced as a child that the split is painful, Like

515
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: if you're living a reality one way but presenting something else,

516
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: those are the moments when it can you can really

517
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: feel torn apart. And I reco recognized that, and I

518
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: didn't want that to be my life. I didn't want

519
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: pretend to be my real life.

520
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's so I can so relate to

521
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: you personally on the idea of not having a blueprint

522
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: and having to create my own. And how often when

523
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 2: you don't have a blueprint, you feel you have two

524
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 2: choices and that's where you feel torn. Whereas when you

525
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: look at it as a whole and go, okay, well,

526
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,239
Speaker 2: now I get to craft my own narrative from this,

527
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 2: and I may take a few pieces from here and

528
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: a few pieces from here, and I'm going to form

529
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: my own puzzle. Yeah, but I don't have to choose

530
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 2: a path. It's really beautiful when you do it, but

531
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: it's really hard in the beginning because it just feels

532
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: like there are two parts. And I wanted to talk

533
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 2: about how much that's impacted you know, your work, and

534
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: you said there, you said that one thing you mentioned

535
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: that really stood out to me was you felt that

536
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: acting was in some way escaping that kind of which

537
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: version I have to be. And I think so much

538
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: of what we do for work, or so much of

539
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: what we pursue as humans, is based on something we're

540
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: trying to build, create, maybe escape from, maybe to reveal something,

541
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: And I think we haven't often looked at work that way.

542
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 2: Like sometimes we choose a career because we know it

543
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: will make our parents happy and so we're living a pattern.

544
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 2: Or sometimes you choose something because it breaks the pattern

545
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: that you were growing up in. And it's fascinating to

546
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: me to look at that. And for you, you were acting

547
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: in school plays since you were a young girl, and

548
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: was acting always something you were going to do or

549
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: do you feel like it was this cross section of

550
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: what was happening in your personal life that actually made

551
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,479
Speaker 2: that feel like the direction you would choose.

552
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting that you said those words

553
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: reveal and escape, that they're kind of the same thing,

554
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: because I think that it all started with a poem.

555
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: I did a poetry competition when I was nine, called

556
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: the Daisy Prat Poetry Competition, and actually naturally quite a

557
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 1: shy person, and so actually for me to stand up

558
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: in front of people feels like an out of body experience,

559
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: like there's so much adrenaline coursing through my veins that

560
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: it does feel like a moment outside of time. And

561
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: I remember the exhilaration of living the kind of ups

562
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: and downs of this poem. And maybe because there wasn't

563
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: space to have conversations or express myself at that time

564
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: in the way that I needed to, I did it

565
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: through performance. And I also did it as a way

566
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: of getting to feel free for a moment of what

567
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: I was like the discomfort of that time of not

568
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: quite knowing who I was or how to be in

569
00:31:54,160 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: the world. And as I've become more healed and whole

570
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: and more comfortable being myself. It's been interesting to ask

571
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: myself do you still need acting? Do you still need

572
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: to act? Like? Why what are you doing that for?

573
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: And like the kind of it used to feel like,

574
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: almost like a compulsion that I needed to do it.

575
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: And what's really interesting now is I don't feel quite

576
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: that kind of urgency of needing to do it. And

577
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's because actually I have spaces where

578
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: I can now take some of those feelings and talk

579
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: about some of the things I don't think I had

580
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: space to voice get out doing it on camera in

581
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: one of thousands of people.

582
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: Which is which is scary in its own way. Right,

583
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: It's easy to to think, oh, that makes sense, but

584
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 2: then it's like, well no, it's it's really challenging to

585
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: do that second part, even if it makes sense rationally.

586
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,239
Speaker 2: And was that what in twenty nineteen when you kind

587
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: of pulled away, was your reason I want to heal

588
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: and work on myself or was it actually I don't

589
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: feel a compulsion anymore, Like was that the inflection point

590
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 2: of doing some self work or was that the inflection

591
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:18,479
Speaker 2: point of I need to pause?

592
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: I realized I was drawing on painful stuff in my

593
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: life that I was actually healing, and I didn't want

594
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: to keep revisiting in order to do some of the

595
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: more intense, scarier, sadder things that I had to do.

596
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: I realized I remember by Bath's deathbed, by her graveside

597
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: when we shot those films, like normally, there are like

598
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: these painful memories that I would use for those moments,

599
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: and I realized I was like, I don't know if

600
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: this is super great for me actually to keep revisiting

601
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: these or if I want to use these as my tools.

602
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: And I don't think that means I'll never come back

603
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: to acting. I think it just meant I was like, hmm,

604
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: I wonder if there's a different way to do this.

605
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: I think the second thing was to be really honest.

606
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: I was coming to those sets with an expectation that

607
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: I think I had developed on Harry Potter, which was

608
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: that we were the people I worked with were going

609
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: to be my family, and that we were going to

610
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: be lifelong friends. I came to work looking for friendship,

611
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: and that was a very painful experience for me outside

612
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: of Harry Potter and in Hollywood, like bone breakingly painful,

613
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: because most people don't come to those environments looking for friendships.

614
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: They're looking for this is my chance, this is my role,

615
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: this is what I went out of it. I'm focused,

616
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: this is my job, this is my career, like let go.

617
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: And I was not of that mindset, and so I

618
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: found I found the rejection really painful, the friendship rejection.

619
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

620
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, of like I really I was, like, I think

621
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: it's so unusual to make a set of films for

622
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: twelve years and we were a community, like we really were.

623
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: And so I took that as an expectation into my

624
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: into my other workplaces, and I just got my I

625
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: just got my ass kicked. I really did.

626
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: Was it competition? Was it envy? Was it just hierarchy?

627
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: Was it?

628
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: I think it was a combination. I was a Molotov

629
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,720
Speaker 1: cocktail of all of the above. As we mentioned earlier.

630
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: I'm just not thick skinned, and maybe I just wasn't

631
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: built for those kinds of highly competitive environments. It Yeah,

632
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: it broke me.

633
00:35:54,160 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, but in a way I'm proud that it did,

634
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 6: because I guess that means I have something left to break.

635
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 3: I have a heart left to break. So it was

636
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 3: a hard learning, but I think there's something that.

637
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: I'm proud of in a way that there were certain

638
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: things I couldn't withstand. I'd much rather keep my humanity

639
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: I'm managining.

640
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 5: Like inside that's really yeah, no, but I really appreciate

641
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 5: you saying that, and I mean, it's so powerful to

642
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 5: hear how you've processed it, like just what you added there,

643
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 5: because when I saw your voice change and just when

644
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 5: you expressing it and it and it hit me as

645
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 5: you said it and I felt it, and then the

646
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 5: way you reflected on it kind of helped that feeling

647
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 5: rise really beautifully because what you said is so true

648
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 5: that if you were broken by a frequency of envy

649
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 5: and competition and whatever else it was, that's only proof

650
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 5: that you were vibrating in a way that didn't want

651
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 5: to be pulled down into that.

652
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 2: And it's so interesting, though, how when we break to

653
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 2: those sorts of emotions and ideas, we feel we're the

654
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 2: weak one, Yeah, when it's completely the opposite.

655
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: That was the most painful thing was I thought I

656
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: beat myself up for years afterwards, really thinking like punishing myself,

657
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: saying you couldn't hack it, you weren't strong enough, And yeah,

658
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: what bliss and what peace? I think to understand that

659
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: two have out on top would have been a greater

660
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: failure I think in terms of who I actually care

661
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: about being.

662
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like if you abandoned yourself in that

663
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 2: moment in order to align with that new way of thinking, yeah,

664
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 2: you'd probably beat yourself up more long term and have

665
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: a much more of time.

666
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: Yes, I think. So, I don't know. I've just got

667
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: to this place where it's just if it costs me

668
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: any part of my piece, it's just too expensive. And

669
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: of course, like there's opportunities that I think, wow, like

670
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: that would be amazing, and I care deeply about my work.

671
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: But I think it's just I think I just used

672
00:38:54,719 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: to completely sacrifice myself for whatever the thing was I

673
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: was trying to achieve. And that could be a grade,

674
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: it could be a movie, it could be promoting. I

675
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: just was obsessed with excellence and doing everything, giving my

676
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: all to everything and doing it to the best of

677
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 1: my ability. And unless you have the right people around

678
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: you that can hold that kind of level of commitment,

679
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: you're going to get smashed up. You're just going to

680
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: get crushed. And so I think now it's just a

681
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: case of me being like, Okay, I know that for

682
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: me to do anything, I have to have people in

683
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: the room that care about me more than whatever the

684
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: product is or whatever the final product is. And if

685
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: that isn't the case, I cannot be there because I'm

686
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: just someone who like gives it all is how I'm built.

687
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: And I think understanding that makeup of myself and not

688
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: punishing myself for that, but just knowing it needs certain

689
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: kinds of conditions is how I've come to hopefully not

690
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: keep doing it forever and probably every day, but accepting myself.

691
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like I've spoken to so many and

692
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 2: we were talking about this last week when we were

693
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 2: speaking on the phone, that I've worked with so many

694
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 2: young people musicians who've all been told like, all right,

695
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 2: if you don't do this over the next twelve months,

696
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 2: you're not gonna make it, yeah, or like if you

697
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 2: don't do this right now, if you don't say yes

698
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: to this song or this movie, it's like you might

699
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: as well wave it goodbye. You're never going to get

700
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: the Oscar or the whatever it may be, or the

701
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: Grammy or whatever it is. And I can't imagine being

702
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 2: a young person like I'm thirty seven now and it's

703
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 2: you process ideas like that differently. Yeah, but if you're

704
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 2: in your teens or even twenties, there's and maybe even thirties,

705
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 2: but you process those statements with so much gravitas, especially

706
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 2: when it's someone of influence and power saying it to you.

707
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: And yeah, like being surrounded by people who really believe

708
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 2: in you and your longevity and your art versus. But

709
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 2: that's hard to find.

710
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: It is, it's hard to find. And you know, I

711
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: had a wonderful team, like I really did. I think

712
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: it's just like understanding that no one at the end

713
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: of the day is going to be in the room,

714
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: like when you're had me doing the thing. You have

715
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: to carry that moment and you have to carry that pressure. Also,

716
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: making films that hours on them are so demanding that

717
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: to have your own life alongside that, to have that

718
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 1: balance is almost impossible. It's so all or nothing, it's

719
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,439
Speaker 1: so all encompassing, especially if you're in a lead role.

720
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: You kind of go through these you know, working six

721
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: days a week, fourteen to sixteen hour days, and then

722
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: you're just kind of dropped off at the end of it,

723
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: and maybe you'll have a two or three month gap

724
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: and then there's just kind of like nothing, and so

725
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: you're like riding this like incredible peak of like adrenaline

726
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: and cortisol and then you just get like dropped off

727
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: the edge and they're like, Okay, wait, now I have

728
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: to be a functioning human again, and I have to

729
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: like figure out how to be a person in the

730
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: real world. And I think some of those extremes then

731
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: force an actor to either decide, well, I'm going to

732
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: back to back it, so I'm going to basically go

733
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: from one movie to the next and that's going to

734
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: be my full life. Or you have to navigate these

735
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: huge impacts on your nervous system that you need a

736
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: system and a support system to help you navigate. And

737
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: I think it's why addiction and mental illness in my profession,

738
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: and then a lot of high stress, high profile professions

739
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,959
Speaker 1: is so commonplace because you're trying to balance out these

740
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 1: enormous chemical ups and downs.

741
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, talk to people about why, because I think from

742
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 2: the outside, when someone sees a red carpet, yeah, or

743
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 2: when someone sees an event, it looks really glamorous. Like

744
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 2: until I ever attended anything, and you know, I always

745
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 2: looked at it's like, oh my gosh, it's so glamorous

746
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 2: and everyone's there and everyone must be friends and everyone

747
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 2: must know each other because they all, you know. But

748
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: but then you're not saying that, and neither is And

749
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: any time I've ever been on a red carpet, everyone's

750
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 2: anxious and everyone's nervous, and that's the real experience. And

751
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 2: people are almost waiting to leave. Yes, and some people

752
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 2: do the red carpet and leave immediately, But but what's

753
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 2: going on there? Like walk us through? Like I mean,

754
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: for people who may not.

755
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: I think the first step is to just understand even

756
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: though you're wearing an incredibly glamorous dress and you're there

757
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: to do something exciting. I don't think there's anything that

758
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: can make it not weird that people are screaming at

759
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: the top of their lungs. Like it just everything in

760
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: your body says something's wrong. Like people are screaming, something's wrong.

761
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: But then you have to try to pretend as though

762
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: this is all normal and you're unfazed. So you have

763
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: like two things going on. One you're like navigating this

764
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 1: like sensory overload. That's like telling you, oh my god,

765
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: something is really wrong where you are you Yeah, so

766
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: you're trying to navigate. Okay, something feels wrong, but I

767
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: need to also simultaneously make it seem as though I

768
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: am the most graceful and the most calm I've ever

769
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: been in my whole life. And I need to like

770
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: pose for this person. And there's fifty different cameras and

771
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: I need to make sure that I look perfectly into

772
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 1: each and every one. And I probably will have had

773
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: four different notes from the stylist about how I'm supposed

774
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: to stand and what I need to do for the dress,

775
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: and then I've got like twenty five different talking points

776
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: from the movie of like what I need to get

777
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: across and also avoid saying or talking about, and so

778
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: like you need to be thinking about that, and the

779
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: juggles crazy, and then I think everyone is in this

780
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: like kind of jumped up state, and so like trying

781
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: to have a normal conversation with anyone is basically impossible

782
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: because you feel like an insane person. And so these

783
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: are not environments in which you like have a nice

784
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: chat with someone. Really. I mean maybe if you're really

785
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: lucky you've worked with someone for a long time and

786
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 1: you've established and trust. But I think that was the

787
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: other thing that was like really difficult about movies and

788
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: what like I kind of laugh at well, not in

789
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: a mean way, but like, you know, you always get

790
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: asked when you're like promoting these big films like so

791
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: do you guys hang out on set? And like do

792
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: you guys hang out? And like are you all friends?

793
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: And everyone's sort of like nods enthusiastically, But the truth is,

794
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: no one has seen each other outside of work, like

795
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: very very very rarely, mostly because the schedule is insane.

796
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: Everyone's so tired that when you get any time off,

797
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: you're going straight back to your hotel room to try

798
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: to like claw in any piece of rest that you

799
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 1: possibly can, and like, I don't know, like it, friendships

800
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: require time and trust and presence and those things like

801
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: very rarely come about. They can, and they like do occasionally,

802
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: but it's more of a more of a you know,

803
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: solar eclipse than an everyday situation. So yeah, but you

804
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: have to pretend. I think that's the part that starts

805
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: to feel icky after a while, is that you have

806
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: to pretend that you're all best friends and what's so sad.

807
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: And I know this isn't just the case for me,

808
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: but like I think people wish they were I think

809
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: we wish we did have those real connections and we

810
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: did have that real support. And so having to pretend

811
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 1: that something exists that you actually really want but don't

812
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: have is like it's like that pretty grainy in the wound,

813
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: you know. It's like it's pretty like tough pill to swallow,

814
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 1: to have to act out something that you wish were

815
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: real but isn't real. Yeah, And I think that's the

816
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: part that starts to kind of yeah, I can speak

817
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: for myself, but those are definitely the moments for have

818
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: been like this feels dark, like anyone else like this

819
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: feels dark.

820
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's such a real reminder that it's still work.

821
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 2: And it's almost like asking anyone who works at any

822
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 2: company and saying, hey, do you hang out with your

823
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 2: team after work every night? And the answer is probably no. Yeah,

824
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 2: everyone's go home to their family and maybe you've got

825
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 2: a couple of course, you've got a couple of friends

826
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 2: at work. And it's wonderful if you have a friend

827
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 2: at work that you work out with or see after hours,

828
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: but you're not hanging out as the whole crew. It's

829
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 2: it's very unlikely, and it is that reality check of no,

830
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 2: but this is also just work. Yeah, and their character

831
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 2: stories are not their personal stories, and it doesn't And

832
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 2: that's why I wanted to go back. You mentioned their

833
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 2: you talked about how Harry Potter had a family feel,

834
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 2: and I wanted to ask you how did that come

835
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 2: about in the first what was where did the auditions

836
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 2: come from? Like, how did that become a part of

837
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 2: your life?

838
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: Yes, so I did not go to a performing arts school.

839
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 1: I'd never done anything. I never acted professionally, but they came.

840
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,760
Speaker 1: They did like a basically country wide search to find Harry,

841
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,919
Speaker 1: Harmione and Ron and so they asked my school if

842
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: they wanted to smit any students who loved drama who

843
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: wanted to audition, and so I was one of I

844
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: think about twelve students that was asked if I wanted

845
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: to audition. I don't know, it was weird. I had

846
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: this weird, weighted, fated sense of destiny pretty much from

847
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: the moment that they said they mentioned the audition. I

848
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 1: remember I brought I think maybe like seven different beanie

849
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: babies with me along and like all these different like

850
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: lucky talismans, and I loved the world and the book

851
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: so much. My dad had been reading them to me

852
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: before bed when I would spend the weekends with him,

853
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: and on long car journeys, we'd often drive back and

854
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,240
Speaker 1: forwards to France, and that's how the time would be passed.

855
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 1: And so I was just like, loved the world, loved Hermione.

856
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: And for me, it wasn't so much about acting so

857
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 1: much as it was that, like I just the books

858
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: meant so much to me personally.

859
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: Did you feel like it was destiny for you or

860
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 2: did it feel like did you always feel like it

861
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: was going to be this? I always think obviously the

862
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 2: books were already I.

863
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: Always felt like Hermione was.

864
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: I knew.

865
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: I was never auditioning for anything else, like I knew

866
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: it was her. I don't know. I don't know how

867
00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:02,479
Speaker 1: to explain it. Something felt right about it. And yeah,

868
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: my poor parents, because if I hadn't have got it,

869
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: I think they knew her crusher. I ended up doing

870
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: nine auditions over a period of over a year and

871
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: a half, which for a nine year old is a

872
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: massive commitment. But I was. I loved her. I loved it.

873
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: I really did.

874
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 2: What do you wish now that you would have known

875
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 2: before you became HERMIONI.

876
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: I did a pretty good job. And I'm actually I

877
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: give my mother specifically credit for this. She was like

878
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: a warrior for my normalcy and for me having an

879
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,919
Speaker 1: ordinary life and going to school, and no one wanted that.

880
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: I mean, it would have been considerably easier if I

881
00:50:54,880 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: had not continued going to school. But she, Wow, like

882
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: I will forever be in her debt. She somehow knew

883
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: that me feeling part of the ordinary world and feeling

884
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: I had a place in it and that I belonged

885
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 1: outside of those films was going to be crucial.

886
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really incredible.

887
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: It was because she basically didn't have anyone on her team.

888
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: She was kind of on her own on that one,

889
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: and she fought tooth and nail. She was like on

890
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: the phone for hours saying she has to sit her exams,

891
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: she has to go back, like she needs to be here,

892
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: she she needs to have some parts of a normal

893
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: childhood and yeah, forever in her dad.

894
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 2: That's so special to have had that and have those Yeah,

895
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: to have a parent who yeah, you can't see anything

896
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 2: for yourself, You're yeah, No.

897
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,919
Speaker 1: And to be honest, I didn't really I didn't really

898
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: get it if I'm gonna be I was like, Okay,

899
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 1: I guess it's important, Like you know, I didn't really

900
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: get it, so I think, yeah, she was amazing.

901
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: When did Emma you? Emma Watson and Hermione and the

902
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:35,240
Speaker 2: characters that then followed start to get blurred and intertwined

903
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 2: because that expectation that comes with I remember this and

904
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 2: I share it because to give it to context to people.

905
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 2: I was walking down the road with one of my

906
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 2: friends who's an actor who gets recognized a hundred times

907
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 2: for every one time I get recommend just and so

908
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,959
Speaker 2: for walking down like this person willet stopped a hundred

909
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 2: times for pictures and then I'll get stopped once. And

910
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 2: it was really beautiful because we'd spent a day together

911
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: and that person had been stopped a hundred times, and

912
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 2: then they've been stopped a couple of times. And then

913
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 2: they said something to me. They said, Jay, you're really lucky,

914
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: And I said, what do you mean? And and I

915
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 2: thought they were going to say because I'm anomus to

916
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 2: some degree, but they didn't. He said to me, he goes, Jay,

917
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 2: You're really lucky, because he goes when people stop me,

918
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 2: they stop me for who I play to be and

919
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 2: when they stop you, they stop you for who you are.

920
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 2: And it was really encouraging words from some of that

921
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 2: respect a lot, and I was like, wow, like I

922
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 2: never thought about it like that. I just I just

923
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 2: it hadn't hit me how different it was. And because

924
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 2: I think you just see fame or success or whatever,

925
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 2: it is this one big bubble of stuff, especially when

926
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 2: you're not that close to it, you don't know too

927
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 2: much about it. And it was that conversation that made

928
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 2: me even be even more personal with everyone that I

929
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 2: ever spoke to, because they'd always have a personal story

930
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 2: or And that's not to say that isn't true for

931
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 2: music and for acting. Of course there is. I don't

932
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 2: want to take away from no, no, And I'm not

933
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 2: saying that as an egotistical statement. I'm saying it as like,

934
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 2: how hard it is for an individual to go through that, Yes,

935
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:18,919
Speaker 2: and to be disassociated from themselves. Yes, because that role

936
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 2: could be a part of you, It could be an

937
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 2: expression of you, It was a part of your life

938
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 2: at a certain period of time, But of course it

939
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 2: isn't you. Yes, But does that make any sense?

940
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 1: I remember when I gave my un speech about heaps

941
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 1: and about feminism and women's rights, and people started stopping

942
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: me because of things that I had come from me

943
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: and that I had said. It felt like a very

944
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: significant transition for me because for the first time I

945
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: felt like I could look someone in the eye and

946
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: receive and accept something that they were saying, because I

947
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: felt like it actually had something to do with me,

948
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:59,959
Speaker 1: and I wasn't just kind of a like a cuss

949
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 1: c stodian of something sacred, which I did take very

950
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: seriously and I still do. But it had been a

951
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 1: direct transmission from me. And I think that's why writing

952
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: has become so important to me, is because it's a

953
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,280
Speaker 1: way that I can say things directly and that feels

954
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: really meaningful.

955
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love the word you just use there of

956
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 2: the difference between being a custodian and you know, direct

957
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 2: transmission you said, And that's such an interesting way to

958
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 2: think about it. And I think each and every one

959
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 2: of us don't want to be known as a lawyer

960
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: or an accountant or a doctor or a like that. Yes,

961
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 2: that's a part of us, and it's a role we

962
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 2: play in society, and it of course brings significance and

963
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: value and worth and all of these wonderful things, but

964
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: I think everyone wants to be something beyond that, and

965
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 2: no one wants to be that in their home, and

966
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 2: no one wants to be that with their friends, and

967
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 2: no one no one wants and me included, by the way,

968
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 2: It's like I try, and me and my one of

969
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 2: my friends is a well known stand up comic. We

970
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 2: always joke about how he hates to be asked to

971
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 2: tell jokes on command. And I try with my friends

972
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:12,399
Speaker 2: to not say smart, to say thoughtful, revolatory things. Because

973
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 2: of my friends, I just want to be Like I

974
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 2: don't want to have to coach someone's marriage or solve

975
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 2: their thing. I don't want to do that, Like I

976
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,839
Speaker 2: just want to be and and so even for someone

977
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 2: who loves who is doing direct transmission a lot more

978
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 2: of the time, even then there's a feeling of, well,

979
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 2: I don't want to say anything profound in this conversation.

980
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: She put this down.

981
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 2: I need to put the one down right.

982
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think a big piece of me like

983
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 1: understanding again, like why I needed to take him in

984
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: It is that like even being the person who was

985
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,280
Speaker 1: promoting the work became a kind of role like Emma

986
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: Watson became this like avatar, this this person that I identified with,

987
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 1: but also kind of didn't. She'd become reproduce so many

988
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 1: times over and kind of had become so loaded by

989
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 1: all of this different stuff that she almost felt too

990
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 1: heavy to carry. Like I kind of was like, I

991
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: don't even know if I can, if I can be

992
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: that bitch anymore. Like I like, you know, I went

993
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: on a date like two years ago, and like it

994
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: was the best confession ever. But I was like messaging

995
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: this person they were like Emma, and he was like,

996
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: can I just say something like Emma, Watson makes me anxious?

997
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: And I was like, Watson makes me anxious too, on

998
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: the same page, like I get it, Like I can't

999
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: even be her. I don't know how to be her

1000
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,439
Speaker 1: live up to what I look like on the cover

1001
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: of a magazine. I don't look like that. I can't.

1002
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't even know how to touch

1003
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: what that person's become. It's kind of a funny realization

1004
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: at some point where it's like I need to step

1005
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: off this thing because I just once you've I don't know.

1006
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 1: There's such a glamorization that comes hand in hand with

1007
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: being a public famous person, especially if you're a woman,

1008
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 1: Like I feel so envious of my male co stars

1009
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:15,919
Speaker 1: who can just put on a T shirt and show

1010
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: up without like this ps like whole rigmarole of kind

1011
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: of becoming acceptable enough to be on camera and ah,

1012
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: like kudos to Pamela Anderson recently and just like doing

1013
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: the thing, because it's like the amount of courage it

1014
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: will have taken to do that, Like I cannot even

1015
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: begin to express to you, it's wild. The expectations are insane,

1016
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: it's impossible.

1017
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 2: So on vacation, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1018
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: Just the beauty expectations are so difficult to reach and

1019
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: the bar gets raised all the time, so it's like

1020
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 1: you're on this constantly, Like I don't know, it's like

1021
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: some sort of like Survivors Island Games Show beauty nightmare

1022
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: where you know, I don't know, it's it's it's nuts.

1023
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: So I yeah, I think part of also not feeling

1024
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: like and Watson is just like the whole like glam

1025
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: squad culture of it all is it's sentense.

1026
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so fascinating because there's almost like this this

1027
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 2: learning of becoming you know, becoming Emma Watson, becoming you know,

1028
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 2: being all the roles you play, and then it almost

1029
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 2: feels like what you're saying is there was a moment

1030
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 2: you wanted to step off and unlearn what that meant total.

1031
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 2: But that seems really hard, Yes, because yes, learning it

1032
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 2: was hard enough, and then to unlearn it when it's

1033
00:59:55,320 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 2: linked to your work, your finances, your work, your friendship,

1034
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 2: community connection, all of the where you live, how do

1035
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 2: you even begin to unlearn? Being Emma Watson, it's noted ball.

1036
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: You have to sort of unravel very carefully.

1037
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 2: And carefully, that's it.

1038
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it's.

1039
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 2: Not like a wrecking ball, like you're not just I.

1040
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: Mean, some things had to be done like the wrecking ball, honestly,

1041
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: and then some parts of it were like a much slower,

1042
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: more gentle teasing out. But I mean, I don't know

1043
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: if you find this, but I imagine that a lot of

1044
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: your friendships are made through the podcast and made through

1045
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: your work, and there's kind of this like non separation

1046
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 1: between your home and your family and your relationship and

1047
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 1: the podcast. But tied into that, there's also like the

1048
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: very real some people will be wanting you to reference

1049
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 1: their new book or like promote something for them or whatever,

1050
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: and like navigating that so many of these threads are entwined.

1051
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: Does it ever start to feel like, wow, this is

1052
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: a lot people ask me all the time. Do you

1053
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 1: ever wonder why people want to hang out with you

1054
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: or be your friend or whatever? And does that ever

1055
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 1: get complicated for you?

1056
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 2: I think because my direct transmission is so clear that

1057
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 2: if anyone in the industry wants to connect, yeah, there's

1058
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 2: usually quite a distinct journey that they're on that mine

1059
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 2: can support or help with as a friend or in

1060
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 2: a more formal capacity, and that I deeply enjoy and

1061
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 2: I'm grateful for because people are not inviting me out

1062
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 2: to crazy parties, and I'm happy they're not. They're not. Yeah,

1063
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 2: they don't think I'm just a clipping the other day

1064
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 2: of Austin Butler saying he's he does He's never been

1065
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 2: invited to a bachelor party. I can't believe it, but

1066
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 2: that that kind of feel like, I don't get invited

1067
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 2: to crazy parties, and I'm grateful for that. I don't know,

1068
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 2: it's not really a part of my life unless it's

1069
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 2: a spiritual party and then I'm all game. But there

1070
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 2: isn't that, And so sometimes I think it's a good

1071
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 2: my direct transmission is a good protective mechanism because I

1072
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 2: don't really get asked to come to things. But then

1073
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 2: at the same time, it takes me to get to

1074
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 2: know someone deeply. Like I just traveled with a friend

1075
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 2: to Greece and we played and I don't think they

1076
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 2: were anticipating this, but we played three nights of poker

1077
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 2: from midnight to seven am and it was amazing and

1078
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 2: I loved it and I had the best time. And

1079
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 2: I don't think they expected me to do that. They

1080
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 2: expect me to get to bed early. But I was

1081
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 2: on vacation and I was like, I'm a game, yeah exactly,

1082
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 2: and I'm one. So I was like, you know, I'll

1083
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 2: take it. And I'm very competitive in that way, and

1084
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 2: I enjoy it. And so I think what it is

1085
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 2: for me is I think there's a big thing for

1086
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 2: me has been from I grew up as part of

1087
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 2: a big community in London, yeah, and the big spiritual

1088
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 2: community that I became a part of when I was young.

1089
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 2: And I think that what I've found is it's very

1090
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 2: difficult to discern for people externally and even for people

1091
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 2: in that community as to how close they were to

1092
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 2: me right, And so there are some people that assume

1093
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 2: that because we sat in a class together and there

1094
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 2: were two hundred people in the class, but now that

1095
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 2: their opinion on me or that their relationship with me

1096
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 2: is close, when in actuality, I've never had a one

1097
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 2: to one conversation with that person, and so now their

1098
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 2: opinion matters to the outside world, it matters to the media,

1099
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 2: it matters to whatever. But I actually don't know that

1100
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 2: person and they don't really know me. It's just so

1101
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 2: that we went to the same congregation in that same year,

1102
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 2: which has lots thousands of people in it, and so

1103
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 2: I struggle with that. And then I also struggle with

1104
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 2: people coming up to me and saying, oh, Jay, I've

1105
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 2: known you for twenty years and you know, like from

1106
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 2: back in the day of the Temple. But I'm like,

1107
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 2: we didn't, like, we didn't ever have a conversation. And

1108
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 2: I still have all my best friends from that community

1109
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 2: that are still my closest friends. Yeah, and they also

1110
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 2: feel the same way because they see it. And so

1111
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 2: I think I find that very difficult. True is hard

1112
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 2: to navigate because it's not that I don't have positive

1113
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 2: feelings towards people or the community or anything I do.

1114
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 2: But I struggle with people feeling they know me when

1115
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 2: they never did, right, but they've almost created a story

1116
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 2: within their mind that they really knew me well. And

1117
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 2: because it was a big community. This isn't a group

1118
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 2: of school friends or something which I'm still really close with.

1119
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 2: It's more of this expanded community which you were just

1120
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 2: visible in, right, not even audible or if that makes

1121
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 2: any sense, No.

1122
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 1: That makes perfect sense. I think, Yeah, being part of

1123
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: a larger community would be true here to navigate with. Yeah,

1124
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 1: with the kind of I guess like being a famous

1125
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 1: person in essences, like lots of people can project lots

1126
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 1: of things onto you, and like if they had some

1127
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: level of contact with you, it makes those kinds of

1128
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: protections a lot easier. And then you're like, oh, wow,

1129
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: we're in a completely different like your experience that this

1130
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 1: is so different from mine.

1131
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and yeah, and I mean yours is like

1132
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 2: a million xter and you know, I can't imagine. I

1133
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 2: can't I can't imagine. I can't imagine how a hard

1134
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 2: dating is, Like you talked about in some of the

1135
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 2: reflections that you see, like this idea is just like

1136
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 2: dating is hard as a twenty or old thirty year

1137
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 2: old woman anyway. Yeah, and then to add your life

1138
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 2: to it. Yeah, talk to me. You've referenced it a

1139
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 2: couple of times in conversations you've had, Like, what does

1140
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 2: it feel like when you're having a normal conversation and

1141
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 2: someone goes, wait a minute, you're yeah, Hermione Granger, Emma Watson,

1142
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 2: you know, a list goes on.

1143
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it does. It does feel like

1144
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: my avatar enters the room unexpectedly all of a sudden,

1145
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 1: and then I'm like navigating a completely different conversation if

1146
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: someone hasn't figured out that it's me yet, and that

1147
01:05:53,080 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 1: can feel really dehumanizing and sometimes quite kind of of

1148
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 1: seeing someone's like behavior like completely switch and turn and

1149
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 1: change can be kind of a jarring experience. I think

1150
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 1: what's nice is at the very least like dating for

1151
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 1: everyone is is basically a complete disaster and free for all,

1152
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: So like, I feel like I'm in good company in

1153
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: that sense. But I think it's funny. Occasionally people will

1154
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 1: apologize to me for the fact they've not seen my films,

1155
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 1: and I will be like, please don't apologize. That is

1156
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 1: bliss to me. Like music, to my ears that like,

1157
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 1: you're not going to constantly be navigating and me also

1158
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: navigating with you. This projection of me or this Emma

1159
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:48,479
Speaker 1: Watson avatar person will not be this ghost in the room.

1160
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 1: So that's happened a few times where people have been like,

1161
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 1: I'm really sorry, please apologize, I'm so ry, I'm so

1162
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 1: incredibly relieved, and then the box later on, Yeah, I

1163
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 1: hope not. I mean, I guess, like I want people

1164
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 1: to appreciate my work, but I think knowing you don't

1165
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 1: have to navigate that extra like degree of weirdness is

1166
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 1: helpful relief.

1167
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:18,919
Speaker 2: How do you help people get to know the real

1168
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 2: you at this stage in your life?

1169
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 1: You know, I wrote this play that I actually sent

1170
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 1: to you to read, but I actually read parts of

1171
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 1: it to people because I find that trying to explain

1172
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 1: sometimes how weird it is to be me, like I

1173
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 1: almost need aids, like it's not it's so difficult to

1174
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 1: convey like how weird it is and how surreal sometimes

1175
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: that I sometimes be like, can I just, like weed

1176
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 1: do this thing I wrote because I think it's going

1177
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 1: to shortcut you somewhere. And so that's actually been incredibly

1178
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 1: helpful and I'm I'm so glad I went and did

1179
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: this this Creative Writing masters and have spent more time

1180
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 1: writing about my experiences because sometimes I can't even articulate

1181
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 1: it to myself, Like how how are you supposed to

1182
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: explain to me? Does someone else you can't really even

1183
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: understand for yourself. So I think writing creative writing making

1184
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:24,799
Speaker 1: art has been the best therapy I've ever done, because

1185
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 1: it's helped me get clarity and also just being able

1186
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 1: to laugh at myself and laugh at the situation. I

1187
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 1: think one on one therapy can be amazing, but like

1188
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 1: there is a kind of intensity and a seriousness to

1189
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:42,120
Speaker 1: that that maybe when you're writing something down. And when

1190
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 1: I wrote the Player, I wrote it for my friends

1191
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 1: and family, and I was able to kind of be

1192
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 1: more my bring more of myself to the picture in

1193
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 1: a way, which is someone who's like this is just nuts,

1194
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: Like I just can't, Like I can't sometimes I just

1195
01:08:56,120 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 1: genuinely cannot believe that my life is my life, and

1196
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 1: I make the place I can put that.

1197
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved so just for everyone who's you know,

1198
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:12,680
Speaker 2: hearing about the referencing of this play, Emma wrote a

1199
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 2: play which helped her closest friends and family understand her

1200
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 2: experience of life. Basically, Yeah, right, is that a bad description?

1201
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:24,600
Speaker 1: No, no, it's not a bad description. But like, specifically,

1202
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: I wrote the play about me transitioning from basically being

1203
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 1: a full time actress an activist to try to move

1204
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: home and like be a normal student and attend a

1205
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:44,719
Speaker 1: normal university as a super famous person. And I basically

1206
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 1: kept a journal of what those experiences were like and

1207
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 1: chronicled them for my friends and family for about a

1208
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 1: year and then performed it as a one woman show

1209
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:55,720
Speaker 1: at the end of the first year and handed that

1210
01:09:55,760 --> 01:10:00,719
Speaker 1: in as my first year piece of work. And yeah,

1211
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:07,760
Speaker 1: yeah it got a distinction. It actually did not that

1212
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,439
Speaker 1: that was the point, but it kind of wasn't the point.

1213
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 1: But I think the coolest thing was was, like I

1214
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 1: read it from my roommate, for example, he's believing me

1215
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 1: for seven years, and he was like, we alway stop

1216
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 1: sorselves as well. He's like, is this actually how you feel?

1217
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: Like do you actually feel this? And I was like, yeah,

1218
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:25,439
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have written it if I didn't, And he

1219
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: was like, I had no idea that this was how

1220
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: you felt, And this is someone I live with and

1221
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 1: so for me, who I perceived myself to be this

1222
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: like massive open book, and actually I realized I was like, Wow,

1223
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: I think I'm doing a good job of bringing the

1224
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 1: people that I love along with me on what this

1225
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: feels like. And actually I'm not saying nearly enough or

1226
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 1: explaining it in a way where it makes sense. And

1227
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 1: so even my parents were just like, I couldn't believe it. Really, yeah, I'm.

1228
01:10:57,479 --> 01:11:00,040
Speaker 2: Sure they were brought to tears by parts of it.

1229
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 2: I was so moved by it, and I really hope

1230
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 2: you do one day make it a production in some capacity,

1231
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 2: because it was so moving and so powerful, and honestly,

1232
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 2: it was what every public figure has ever tried to

1233
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:21,520
Speaker 2: explain to me about their experience, yet put so succinctly,

1234
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:24,599
Speaker 2: powerfully and meaningfully that anyone could relate to it. And

1235
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 2: I think anyone, meaning anyone who's ever felt misunderstood, loved

1236
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 2: for what they have and not who they are, seen

1237
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 2: for parts of themselves and not all of themselves. And

1238
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 2: I really believe it would be such a service to

1239
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:42,200
Speaker 2: everyone to share it one day, in however way you

1240
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:45,760
Speaker 2: decide to, because honestly, I was gripped, I was completely

1241
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 2: captivated I couldn't put it down. I feel like I'm

1242
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 2: going to read it again and again and again. It's

1243
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 2: not something that I think you read once. Not only

1244
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,599
Speaker 2: are you a brilliant writer, but it is so true

1245
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 2: and honest and for everyone who's listening and watching. I

1246
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 2: think the from it for me is that your therapy

1247
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 2: could turn into something creative. That when you shared that

1248
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 2: with me when we were speaking on the phone, I

1249
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 2: was so in awe of that. That therapy in one

1250
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 2: to one setting or in whatever way of healing you

1251
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 2: believe in, if it turns into something you have to

1252
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 2: put together to communicate to others, that's the revelation. Like

1253
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 2: the revelation is in that process, not in the listening, telling, share, speaking.

1254
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 2: That's great and that's a part of it, but if

1255
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 2: you can go one step ahead.

1256
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 1: Truly, I feel this urgency and like desperation to communicate

1257
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 1: this specific piece, which is like make art about your experiences,

1258
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 1: like the neurosis of being a writer or anyone making anything.

1259
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,680
Speaker 1: It's like I don't have anything valuable to say. It's

1260
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 1: all been said before. This is so self indulgent, This

1261
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 1: is so narcissistic. Who even wants to hear this, this

1262
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 1: is bad. I thought all of those thoughts, probably most

1263
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 1: days as I wrote this. But trust me, like whatever

1264
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 1: you think people know about you, or they know about

1265
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 1: your life or how you feel about it, they don't.

1266
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:19,640
Speaker 1: And they need you to write poems, write songs, make pictures,

1267
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 1: write plays. And you don't need to be someone with

1268
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 1: the title of an artist to be able to do that.

1269
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 1: You really don't. And in fact, I have to write

1270
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: on my mirror. I haven't written on my door I

1271
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: am an artist because I don't think anyone feels like

1272
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 1: they deserve that title. I've been making films and writing

1273
01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 1: and making arts since I was nine years old, and

1274
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:45,160
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I deserve that title, and I

1275
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 1: have to work at it all the time to feel

1276
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:49,879
Speaker 1: like I have anything that's worthwhile saying. I really understand

1277
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 1: the struggle. I really really do. But there is something

1278
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:59,599
Speaker 1: about doing it and like having a physical thing, because

1279
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 1: I think so many of these thoughts and feelings live

1280
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 1: in our heads and it's not a great place for

1281
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:09,040
Speaker 1: them to live. They need to come out somewhere, and

1282
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 1: once you can put them somewhere, then you're free being

1283
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 1: understood or feeling like you're understood. By the people around

1284
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:22,439
Speaker 1: you has got to be the best feeling in the world.

1285
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 1: And I think it's what we're looking for when we

1286
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 1: do so many things, but often that's not the way

1287
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,880
Speaker 1: to find it. And I just, god, yeah, if I

1288
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 1: honestly I want to go to every person in the

1289
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 1: street and be like, you need to write a one

1290
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 1: person show about your life and then perform it for

1291
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:43,000
Speaker 1: your friends and family, or like you need to like,

1292
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 1: you know, paint the thing, write the song, like, just

1293
01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 1: do it, because it's kind of one of the best

1294
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 1: most meaningful things I've done. Yeah, trying to make sense

1295
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 1: of sense of it all.

1296
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:57,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I love that you did it for your family.

1297
01:14:57,680 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 2: Like that's the part that proves to me when you

1298
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 2: say the message you of make your art and you

1299
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 2: know you don't need to be a full time actor

1300
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:06,960
Speaker 2: or a director or movie filmmaker. It's like you actually

1301
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 2: lived that part. And that's what I love about it

1302
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 2: the most, is that you didn't make it for a

1303
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:14,759
Speaker 2: stage or a movie or a documentary or whatever.

1304
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:17,759
Speaker 1: And honestly, first I wrote it for myself. I didn't

1305
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:19,759
Speaker 1: think I honestly, I didn't think I had the guts

1306
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 1: to read this aloud. To anyone. I thought it was

1307
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 1: just for me and maybe like two other people and

1308
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 1: performing it for my I didn't even invite my family

1309
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 1: until like two days before, because I just didn't think

1310
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:33,599
Speaker 1: I had the courage make art for people you love,

1311
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 1: like make beautiful things for people that you love, just

1312
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 1: for people that you love. Like That's one I guess,

1313
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:43,280
Speaker 1: like I had the extraordinary experience of making things for

1314
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 1: like the world basically from such a young age, and

1315
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 1: I never made anything that I didn't feel like needed

1316
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 1: to be shared publicly. And I remember when I made

1317
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 1: Little Women. I mean, that's such an amazing thing about

1318
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 1: Louise Maelcot is that really she wrote these stories for

1319
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:03,760
Speaker 1: her sisters. So many people's journeys and paths start because, yeah,

1320
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:05,799
Speaker 1: out of love, they wrote them for just one person.

1321
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 1: There was a certain point I remember in my life

1322
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 1: where I was like, right, I'm done with university now,

1323
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:12,439
Speaker 1: and now I'm going to just like focus full What

1324
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:14,640
Speaker 1: I should be doing is just focusing full time on

1325
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,400
Speaker 1: being an actress and you know, doing all of that.

1326
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:23,280
Speaker 1: And I had completely missed actually that emma, the academic emma,

1327
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:27,519
Speaker 1: the student emma, the person that needs to needs to

1328
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 1: constantly be learning things facilitated my ability to be a

1329
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:36,519
Speaker 1: famous person and in Hollywood, and that without her I

1330
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:40,759
Speaker 1: actually couldn't do it. I needed, I need to have both,

1331
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:43,800
Speaker 1: and that when one gets stripped away. And like, even

1332
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:45,640
Speaker 1: as I and explore this in the player as well,

1333
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: it's like, even as I have returned to some form

1334
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: of normalcy, ordinary life, whatever that looks like to me now,

1335
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 1: like I also can't kill her off completely, you know,

1336
01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:00,240
Speaker 1: my public person, there's parts of me that like still

1337
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 1: does need those outlets and to do those things too,

1338
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 1: And I'm figuring out what those are. But I think

1339
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:09,760
Speaker 1: that's what's so complicated about being humans, is it's yes

1340
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 1: and not either or it's we need we need to

1341
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 1: be all of ourselves so that we can do the

1342
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:19,439
Speaker 1: extraordinary things that we what we want to do. Maybe

1343
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 1: it's about not leaving parts of ourselves behind, like kind

1344
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,559
Speaker 1: of finding a way to keep threading the tapestry all

1345
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 1: of it.

1346
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's I mean, you've you've said it

1347
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 2: so well, and I really feel that that's what it's

1348
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 2: been for me. It's I feel like it's humans were

1349
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:37,640
Speaker 2: very good at being like, Okay, this chapter of my

1350
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,639
Speaker 2: life is over. Yeah, and we do it because labeling helps.

1351
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 2: But it's like you went from being a toddler, yes,

1352
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 2: or an infant, and then you became you know, a teen,

1353
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 2: and then a young adult and then an adult and

1354
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 2: then so we have all these labels yeah, and it

1355
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 2: almost feels like we live our life that way. It's like, Okay,

1356
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:55,840
Speaker 2: I was a student at university. If I went to university,

1357
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:59,480
Speaker 2: and now I have a job and I'm an employee

1358
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:02,519
Speaker 2: or an art whatever it is, and labels are useful,

1359
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 2: so I'm not going to say they aren't. But what

1360
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 2: ends up happening is you start labeling phases of your

1361
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:09,280
Speaker 2: life yes, which means now there isn't a yes, and

1362
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,879
Speaker 2: it's an either raw. So it's like I was an actress,

1363
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,479
Speaker 2: now I'm going to be an academic and it's like, well, no,

1364
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 2: I'm an academic and an actress and whatever else you know,

1365
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 2: And I think that's what it's been for me. It's

1366
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:25,799
Speaker 2: like I know that the people that know me best

1367
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 2: will say, Jay, I love you because we can talk

1368
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:31,760
Speaker 2: about spirituality. We can talk about business, and we can

1369
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:34,800
Speaker 2: talk about communication, media art, and I love you because

1370
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:36,759
Speaker 2: we can do all those three things in one day

1371
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:39,559
Speaker 2: and I'm like, yes, I feel so seen. Yeah, if

1372
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:42,120
Speaker 2: someone only said one of those things, I'd feel so limited.

1373
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:45,559
Speaker 2: And what I've realized is I'm now at a place

1374
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:47,879
Speaker 2: where I've given myself permission to be all of myself,

1375
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 2: even if others don't give me permission to be all

1376
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 2: of those things. Yes, because yeah, And.

1377
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 1: How amazing to get to that point where I realized

1378
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,679
Speaker 1: for a long time I was pushing for I need

1379
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,679
Speaker 1: everyone to understand me, and I need them to understand

1380
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:05,640
Speaker 1: these decisions, and I need them to understand that I'm

1381
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 1: all of these things. And I'm like, but do you really, Emma,

1382
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 1: do you actually really need them to get it? Always

1383
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: enough that you get it, you see it and understand it,

1384
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 1: and you're making it possible and giving yourself permission to

1385
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 1: do that. And I think once I kind of let

1386
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:24,160
Speaker 1: go of like, okay, it matters way more that I

1387
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:29,120
Speaker 1: accept myself than that I spend so much energy and

1388
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:31,360
Speaker 1: time trying to force other people to see these things

1389
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 1: about me. And then paradoxically, of course, once you let go,

1390
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:39,440
Speaker 1: people start getting it, which is which is funny.

1391
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 2: Emma, how do you how do you see love today? God?

1392
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 1: What a great question, Oh, I see love today. Oh okay,

1393
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 1: I think I have an answer with this. How exciting

1394
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:57,680
Speaker 1: I was right there for and I was like, I

1395
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 1: do am I that deep? Yeah? Okay, So I think that, oh,

1396
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 1: we don't talk about love nearly enough, or I think

1397
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 1: we need to talk about it so much more, because

1398
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:17,559
Speaker 1: I had such a not a misunderstanding, but I think

1399
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:20,080
Speaker 1: I had a very limited understanding of it for a

1400
01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:23,639
Speaker 1: long time, which was that we see in Disney movies

1401
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 1: and in Hollywood movies, this idea that like falling in love,

1402
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 1: once it sort of happened to you, it's like irreversible,

1403
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 1: you know, like step into this pottle that you can't

1404
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:35,919
Speaker 1: get out of anymore because you've fallen in love. And actually,

1405
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 1: I think falling in love might be quite easy to

1406
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 1: do in some ways. That's sort of the easy bit.

1407
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 1: The hard part is finding someone who actually wants to

1408
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:48,960
Speaker 1: be in a dance with you and be in some

1409
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 1: form of partnership with you, and things like can you argue? Well,

1410
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 1: can you be? Is the conflict that you have generative?

1411
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:03,360
Speaker 1: And can you make someone else feel safe? Like? And

1412
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:05,720
Speaker 1: when I say safe, I don't mean like as of

1413
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 1: physical danger, I mean like, can you either respond to

1414
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 1: a text message quickly enough that doesn't send the other

1415
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:15,559
Speaker 1: person into like a complete free fall and or not

1416
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:19,640
Speaker 1: pelt them with so many that they feel completely overwhelmed

1417
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:24,200
Speaker 1: and flooded. And like that kind of like compatibility and

1418
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 1: that kind of willingness to be in this like is

1419
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 1: this okay for you? Does this feel good to you?

1420
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:31,679
Speaker 1: This is how it feels for me? And like there's

1421
01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:33,800
Speaker 1: like that constant back and forth and that constant check

1422
01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:38,759
Speaker 1: in is like a game of chicken in a way

1423
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 1: of like can you find someone who's willing to be

1424
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:46,880
Speaker 1: as vulnerable? Is it necessarily requires, I think, to like

1425
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 1: figure out those micro adjustments until you're sort of in

1426
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 1: some kind of dance with someone else. And that is

1427
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 1: a very different understanding that I have come to of

1428
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:01,799
Speaker 1: what love is than I have. I mean, like loving

1429
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 1: someone is so much more complex than the projections that

1430
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 1: we put on someone or even like just lusting or

1431
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 1: having some small feeling for someone else. But I just

1432
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:17,400
Speaker 1: think that we have such a black and white idea

1433
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:23,479
Speaker 1: about what love is supposed to be. And I wish

1434
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:27,719
Speaker 1: I'd understood more before I went into battle. I do,

1435
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:47,960
Speaker 1: I really really do? What do you think love is?

1436
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:50,679
Speaker 2: Jane, Oh wow, Oh my gosh, you're fliving this back.

1437
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 1: That's a conversation. Does any of what I've said resonate?

1438
01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 2: It does?

1439
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:00,280
Speaker 1: It does resonates on the right track, Jake, I need

1440
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:00,880
Speaker 1: you to tell me.

1441
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:04,840
Speaker 2: I think it resonates a lot. I grew up in

1442
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 2: a I grew up with a very film naive Disney

1443
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 2: version of what love was.

1444
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1445
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 2: I love that version of love, yeh. I love the

1446
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:19,839
Speaker 2: idea that love was this really romantic, really sweet, writing

1447
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 2: letters every day you kind of love like that. That's

1448
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 2: the love I dreamed of, and love I thought of

1449
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:27,880
Speaker 2: as a kid at least. Yeah, And then you know,

1450
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:31,400
Speaker 2: I think, I realize that you do all of that

1451
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:33,720
Speaker 2: with the first person you're with in your teens, and

1452
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:36,240
Speaker 2: you kind of think it's the real thing. But then

1453
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 2: they're in a mood every night for no reason, and

1454
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 2: you're just people pleasing and trying to figure out what's

1455
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 2: going on, and you think it's all about making that

1456
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:46,280
Speaker 2: person happy, and so you mold and you bend, and you,

1457
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 2: you know, sabotage parts of yourself. And I realized very

1458
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:53,439
Speaker 2: quickly that that wasn't love. And I think what's really

1459
01:23:53,439 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 2: interesting about love now is that marrying my wife, who

1460
01:23:57,640 --> 01:23:59,439
Speaker 2: I've been with now for twelve years and married for

1461
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 2: nine and so it's the longest time I've ever spent

1462
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:05,200
Speaker 2: with anyone, and also the only person I've been with

1463
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 2: after I left the monastery, and so there's been a

1464
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 2: certain chapter of my life that I've been with her

1465
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 2: for and I really feel she's taught me more about

1466
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:18,640
Speaker 2: love for two reasons. The first is she doesn't subscribe

1467
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:21,800
Speaker 2: to any of the movie Disney versions of love.

1468
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:25,400
Speaker 1: Wow, oh my god, what education did she have?

1469
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 2: Literally? And the other part is that I think she's

1470
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 2: the only person I've ever loved enough to be taught by,

1471
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 2: which is like a really interesting part of love that

1472
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 2: I think's missed. And I feel like love is the

1473
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 2: humility to feel. It's humility on both parts because the

1474
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:53,760
Speaker 2: other person's not actively teaching and you're actively receiving. So

1475
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:57,439
Speaker 2: it's this really strange dance between It's almost like if

1476
01:24:57,439 --> 01:25:01,679
Speaker 2: you're dancing, there has to be on both sides, because

1477
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 2: it's not that one person leads and the other person follows.

1478
01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:06,920
Speaker 2: It's the other person's kind of like should we do this?

1479
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 2: Should we try this? There's an anxiety and a humility

1480
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:13,280
Speaker 2: and requesting that, and the other person gets to choose

1481
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:15,439
Speaker 2: to go with it or not go and say no,

1482
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 2: we're going to go in this direction. And that's a

1483
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 2: great dance to watch. And I feel like with my wife,

1484
01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:24,920
Speaker 2: she's never directly taught me, but she's challenged me in

1485
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:28,280
Speaker 2: ways that if other people would ever might have left.

1486
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god, how beautiful.

1487
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 2: And so why am I staying? And then you go, Okay,

1488
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:37,040
Speaker 2: I'm staying because there's love. And so love is the

1489
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:44,360
Speaker 2: ability to be taught without teaching and learning without feeling

1490
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:48,120
Speaker 2: like you're being led or misled, and that for me

1491
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:52,360
Speaker 2: has been a really beautiful lesson. And if I just

1492
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 2: said this to my wife out loud right now, she

1493
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,560
Speaker 2: would just laugh because she'd just find it funny. And

1494
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:01,160
Speaker 2: then she's yeah, she she also taught me how to

1495
01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 2: love me for who I was and not what I had.

1496
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 2: Because I think a lot of men go through this,

1497
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:07,800
Speaker 2: at least men that I'm friends with them that I've

1498
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:12,439
Speaker 2: spoken to that we want people to respect us for

1499
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:16,720
Speaker 2: our success, yes, and revere us for our accomplishments. It's

1500
01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:19,880
Speaker 2: how men have been adored since the beginning of time

1501
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:23,840
Speaker 2: for going out and getting the food or going out

1502
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 2: there and winning the battle or conquering a nation, and

1503
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:30,639
Speaker 2: that's what you were known for. And so my wife's

1504
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:32,920
Speaker 2: been with me since before my career took off and

1505
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:36,240
Speaker 2: I had any success, and I think as I gained success,

1506
01:26:36,280 --> 01:26:38,559
Speaker 2: I think my immaturity was to want her to love

1507
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:41,879
Speaker 2: me for that more and she never did. She didn't

1508
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:46,160
Speaker 2: do it, wow, and it drove me crazy. And she

1509
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 2: didn't do it in a rejecting way or in a

1510
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:52,599
Speaker 2: in a it just didn't make a difference to her.

1511
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 2: And it took me a long time to wrap my

1512
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:57,920
Speaker 2: head around that and realize, because you know, those are

1513
01:26:57,960 --> 01:27:00,840
Speaker 2: the times when you could start like other people who

1514
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:03,920
Speaker 2: love you for you have achieved and what you have

1515
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:05,759
Speaker 2: built and all the rest of it. And I think

1516
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:07,600
Speaker 2: I just have so much respect.

1517
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:09,559
Speaker 1: For her that you never gave in on that.

1518
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, she never gave in, and she helped me love

1519
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 2: myself for who I am. And I think that's the

1520
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:16,640
Speaker 2: point that I think I would have if I had

1521
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 2: met someone else, I would have valued myself for very

1522
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:22,599
Speaker 2: different reasons. And knowing you're with someone who truly is

1523
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:26,000
Speaker 2: with you because of who you are and your character,

1524
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:28,920
Speaker 2: and that's what they honor and I think that word

1525
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:32,080
Speaker 2: honor and respect probably the last thing i'd say. I

1526
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 2: think we always say like love is respect and based

1527
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 2: on respect.

1528
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:39,679
Speaker 1: But I wrote a list of things that I tried

1529
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 1: to be clear with myself about what it is I

1530
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:45,639
Speaker 1: was really looking for and I really want And one

1531
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 1: is someone that I can learn from. So it's really

1532
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:51,360
Speaker 1: interesting that you said learning without teaching, teaching without learning

1533
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:53,519
Speaker 1: and that kind of reciprocal. I really want to be

1534
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:56,599
Speaker 1: with someone that I can learn learn from, and I

1535
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:59,240
Speaker 1: hope that yeah, as you say, has the humility to

1536
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:01,920
Speaker 1: be willing to learn from me. But the other thing is,

1537
01:28:02,880 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 1: I think it's why I was so obsessed with the

1538
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:09,200
Speaker 1: musical Hamilton and why say people have But like maybe

1539
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:12,120
Speaker 1: this is it's so funny that we're on the Purpose podcast,

1540
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:15,960
Speaker 1: but like, are you with someone who because obviously what

1541
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:19,559
Speaker 1: you have with someone is wonderful, right, like what you

1542
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 1: two share together, But if you can be in service

1543
01:28:23,720 --> 01:28:26,160
Speaker 1: of a vision that you both share, or at the

1544
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:29,320
Speaker 1: very least, are you willing to honor and give dignity

1545
01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:32,040
Speaker 1: to the work of the other person and whatever their

1546
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:35,040
Speaker 1: vision or mission is in this world, that to me

1547
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:40,640
Speaker 1: seems far more sustainable than anything else, And so I

1548
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:43,320
Speaker 1: guess my big hope or wish would be that I

1549
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:47,160
Speaker 1: met someone who feels like what I want to do

1550
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:49,519
Speaker 1: in the world. Yes, that I'm important, but they also

1551
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:52,640
Speaker 1: feel that what I'm here to do is important to

1552
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:55,559
Speaker 1: them too, and in some way inter sex with what

1553
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:56,400
Speaker 1: they're here to do.

1554
01:28:56,840 --> 01:28:58,920
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. It's exactly what I was going

1555
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:01,599
Speaker 2: to say, is it. Yeah that I think the word

1556
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 2: respect and relationships thrown around a lot, but this is

1557
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:07,920
Speaker 2: the deepest form of respect. Where there's a famous quote

1558
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:09,840
Speaker 2: that I don't know who said it, but there's a

1559
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:11,559
Speaker 2: and I would you know, you could take the genders

1560
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:13,840
Speaker 2: out of it now, but there's a famous quote that

1561
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:19,759
Speaker 2: says men marry women hoping they'll never change, and women

1562
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:24,360
Speaker 2: marry men hoping they can change them. And to me,

1563
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 2: wanting someone to never change or wanting to be able

1564
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:34,680
Speaker 2: to change someone are both signs of disrespect, because I

1565
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:37,680
Speaker 2: think the greatest respect you can have is to respect

1566
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:41,400
Speaker 2: what this person values in this moment and how that evolves,

1567
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 2: and that's their purpose. They're offering their values and at

1568
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:47,360
Speaker 2: no point that you're trying to change them. And I've

1569
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:50,439
Speaker 2: talked about this often where my wife and I. I

1570
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:52,439
Speaker 2: do this exercise with couples when I'm working with them,

1571
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:55,200
Speaker 2: but I've also done it in our relationship. And I

1572
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:58,439
Speaker 2: ask people to rank their top three priorities in order,

1573
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,200
Speaker 2: and people do it privately and then they share them.

1574
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:08,320
Speaker 2: And so generally one person will put themselves first, their

1575
01:30:08,360 --> 01:30:12,599
Speaker 2: partner second, and then the kids third, and the other

1576
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 2: person will put the kids first, the partner second, and

1577
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,519
Speaker 2: themselves third. And the person who put themselves third is

1578
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:20,880
Speaker 2: always mad at the person who put themselves first, because

1579
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 2: there's this friction of well, wait a minute, how can

1580
01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:26,320
Speaker 2: you not put the kids first? Or how can you

1581
01:30:26,360 --> 01:30:28,439
Speaker 2: not put family first? Or whatever it may be in

1582
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:31,280
Speaker 2: your given situation, And the other person's like, well, if

1583
01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:33,840
Speaker 2: I don't put myself first, then what can I give

1584
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 2: to you all? And that kind of displays this dichotomy

1585
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:40,200
Speaker 2: and this belief we have around love means complete sacrifice,

1586
01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:42,960
Speaker 2: and love means self sabotage to some degree, or love

1587
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 2: means putting yourself aside, and the reality is, actually, no,

1588
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:48,599
Speaker 2: my goal is to make sure that you live your

1589
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:51,800
Speaker 2: purpose and greatest vision of yourself, and your purpose is

1590
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 2: to help me do that. When we both do that,

1591
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:58,639
Speaker 2: everything's poetry, and my wife practice that and she does

1592
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:01,360
Speaker 2: it naturally, and it's hard to do that in a

1593
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:05,360
Speaker 2: world that constantly reminds you both that sometimes the other

1594
01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:09,479
Speaker 2: person isn't where you are, or you know, the idea

1595
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:12,519
Speaker 2: of why haven't you had kids yet? Or when are

1596
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:14,759
Speaker 2: you going to be in the same country for longer

1597
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,840
Speaker 2: than a month, or whatever they may be, because it

1598
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:21,960
Speaker 2: doesn't fit into the norm of what relationships look like.

1599
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:24,200
Speaker 2: And I was thinking about that with you as well,

1600
01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:26,680
Speaker 2: Like you know, I know you you talked about how

1601
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:28,719
Speaker 2: getting asked the question when are you getting married?

1602
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:29,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1603
01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:32,800
Speaker 2: Or why ain't you married? Yeah? Yes, And there's something

1604
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 2: every woman's hearing. Well, what's your reaction when you hear that?

1605
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 1: I'm just so happy not to be divorced yet, Like

1606
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:42,200
Speaker 1: that sounds like a really negative answer, but I just

1607
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:46,280
Speaker 1: like I think that we are. We're being pressured and

1608
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 1: forced into this thing that, like I believe is a

1609
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:57,080
Speaker 1: kind of miracle. I might never be worthy of it.

1610
01:31:57,439 --> 01:32:00,880
Speaker 1: I hope it happens to me, but like I don't

1611
01:32:00,880 --> 01:32:04,040
Speaker 1: feel entitled to it, like it will either be part

1612
01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:10,519
Speaker 1: of my purpose here and my destiny or it won't.

1613
01:32:11,120 --> 01:32:14,960
Speaker 1: And I think the way we treat it as though, well,

1614
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:19,559
Speaker 1: why haven't you, And this is something that has to

1615
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:23,799
Speaker 1: happen in this certain time span and at a certain

1616
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:26,479
Speaker 1: age in this kind of way. Is like the least

1617
01:32:26,640 --> 01:32:31,040
Speaker 1: romantic thing I can possibly think of, Like truly, like

1618
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:35,520
Speaker 1: if I had tried to get married any point basically

1619
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:40,680
Speaker 1: before about a year ago, it would have been carnage.

1620
01:32:41,160 --> 01:32:46,240
Speaker 1: I just didn't know myself well enough yet. I didn't

1621
01:32:47,280 --> 01:32:51,439
Speaker 1: have a clear enough idea of what my purpose, my vision, like,

1622
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 1: how I was going to be of service. I didn't

1623
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:56,920
Speaker 1: know where I really felt like I needed to be.

1624
01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:00,479
Speaker 1: I think I have some of those answers now, so

1625
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:03,120
Speaker 1: when I meet someone, I can say, Hi, I'm emma,

1626
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:05,800
Speaker 1: this is what I care about, this is where the

1627
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 1: people I love the most live, this is where it's

1628
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:10,920
Speaker 1: meaningful for me to be in the world. And then

1629
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:15,680
Speaker 1: they can decide whether they can see that there's a

1630
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:18,519
Speaker 1: way that I can serve what they're trying to do

1631
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:21,280
Speaker 1: and they can serve what I'm trying to do. But

1632
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:25,120
Speaker 1: before that they would have just got like a very

1633
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:27,280
Speaker 1: mixed signal. I mean, there's some parts of me that

1634
01:33:27,320 --> 01:33:31,599
Speaker 1: have stayed utterly consistent, but there are some parts that

1635
01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:34,719
Speaker 1: like I was really still teasing out and figuring out.

1636
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:37,639
Speaker 1: And I think it's such a violence, and it's such

1637
01:33:37,640 --> 01:33:42,320
Speaker 1: a cruelty on people, and especially young people, I think,

1638
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:45,880
Speaker 1: to make and especially women, to make them feel like

1639
01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:49,280
Speaker 1: they have no worth or like they haven't succeeded yet

1640
01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:54,400
Speaker 1: in life because they haven't forced to its culmination something

1641
01:33:54,439 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 1: that I just don't think can or should ever be forced.

1642
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:04,800
Speaker 1: It's something that like, honestly, I feel like I've had

1643
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:07,160
Speaker 1: to earn, I've had to work for to be in

1644
01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:09,519
Speaker 1: a place where I feel like I can look someone

1645
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:11,280
Speaker 1: in the eye and be able to tell them who

1646
01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:15,559
Speaker 1: I am and to have some idea and it will

1647
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:17,960
Speaker 1: change and grow of what I want and what I'm

1648
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:22,720
Speaker 1: here to do. That takes work, Like I have, like

1649
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:29,439
Speaker 1: really sat with myself in a lot of discomfort and

1650
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:31,920
Speaker 1: asked myself a lot of very difficult questions. To be

1651
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:34,640
Speaker 1: at that point, it hasn't happened to me yet.

1652
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:38,080
Speaker 2: I do think everyone's worthy of love, But I like

1653
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:40,719
Speaker 2: I and I don't think that's what you're saying either.

1654
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:46,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess maybe like partnership or marriage, I guess

1655
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:49,040
Speaker 1: is what we're both saying is like almost a different game,

1656
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:53,360
Speaker 1: like it's it's almost a different playing field actually, like

1657
01:34:53,439 --> 01:34:56,360
Speaker 1: actually co joining and like properly sharing your life with

1658
01:34:56,720 --> 01:35:00,680
Speaker 1: someone and being in partnership with them seems like it's

1659
01:35:00,720 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 1: its own thing.

1660
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:04,759
Speaker 2: It is. It takes so much work, and it takes

1661
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:11,520
Speaker 2: so much adjustment and adapting more than compromising and sacrificing.

1662
01:35:12,320 --> 01:35:16,800
Speaker 2: There's so much flexibility, there's so much allowing. It's so

1663
01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:21,479
Speaker 2: different at different times, Like sometimes patience looks like being

1664
01:35:21,640 --> 01:35:26,600
Speaker 2: by that person's side and saying nothing, and sometimes patients

1665
01:35:26,640 --> 01:35:30,960
Speaker 2: means being halfway across the world and not communicating, and

1666
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:35,760
Speaker 2: sometimes patients looks like talking and listening, Like you know,

1667
01:35:35,800 --> 01:35:39,520
Speaker 2: it's patients doesn't look like one thing over a lifespan.

1668
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:42,160
Speaker 2: And there are parts of my wife that have stayed

1669
01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:44,080
Speaker 2: exactly the same in twelve years, and there are parts

1670
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:48,599
Speaker 2: that have completely changed. And I have a choice every

1671
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:52,800
Speaker 2: time that happens, to learn to love the new or not.

1672
01:35:53,120 --> 01:35:55,240
Speaker 2: And that's a choice I have to make and she

1673
01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:57,920
Speaker 2: has to make as well. And so there's so much

1674
01:35:58,040 --> 01:36:02,360
Speaker 2: constant choosing and cont evolving that it's very easy to

1675
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:04,880
Speaker 2: just it's very easy to be like I chose them

1676
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:06,920
Speaker 2: the day we got married, And people always asking me

1677
01:36:06,920 --> 01:36:09,680
Speaker 2: that I'm like, I don't think I even knew who

1678
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:13,680
Speaker 2: my wife was married. I think about it, it was

1679
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:17,080
Speaker 2: like I loved her, but I had no idea, And

1680
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:19,800
Speaker 2: that's what it should feel like. I didn't think if

1681
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:22,080
Speaker 2: I was here to say, like, yeah, the wedding day

1682
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:23,559
Speaker 2: was one of the best days of my life, but

1683
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 2: it's not the day I loved my wife the most. Yeah,

1684
01:36:26,880 --> 01:36:30,400
Speaker 2: because I didn't really even know what I was getting

1685
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:31,000
Speaker 2: myself into.

1686
01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:36,599
Speaker 1: It's amazing. I was thinking recently about trust and telling

1687
01:36:36,640 --> 01:36:42,679
Speaker 1: the truth, and I realized the scary, crazy thing about

1688
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:46,120
Speaker 1: it seems to me about intimacy is that it seems

1689
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:49,559
Speaker 1: to be conditional on your ability to keep telling the

1690
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:53,280
Speaker 1: truth and perhaps even revealing deeper and deeper and deeper

1691
01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:58,479
Speaker 1: truths at the risk that that truth might mean that

1692
01:36:58,479 --> 01:37:02,160
Speaker 1: that person might not continue to choose you. Yes, So,

1693
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:05,320
Speaker 1: even though you've been in this relationship for twelve years,

1694
01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:09,400
Speaker 1: like every day, you have to choose to risk it

1695
01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:13,479
Speaker 1: all if you want there to be continued intimacy by

1696
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:17,400
Speaker 1: continuing to tell your truth to this other person. And

1697
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:20,519
Speaker 1: that seems so courageous to me, Like, in order for

1698
01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:23,680
Speaker 1: there to be genuine and connection and closeness you have

1699
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:26,439
Speaker 1: to be willing to risk it all sometimes or like

1700
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:30,240
Speaker 1: probably almost constantly, and that it seems like it takes

1701
01:37:30,320 --> 01:37:34,160
Speaker 1: so much courage because we don't like change. We don't

1702
01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:37,040
Speaker 1: want things to change. So you also want a relationship

1703
01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:39,800
Speaker 1: that's alive and still living and breathing and not some

1704
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:41,360
Speaker 1: like dead thing.

1705
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so well said. And what you're saying is like

1706
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:49,320
Speaker 2: that feeling of when you're not actually being truthful consistently.

1707
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,120
Speaker 2: That's when we feel people have had big changes in

1708
01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:56,600
Speaker 2: their life because if you had the consistent truthfulness, the

1709
01:37:56,720 --> 01:38:00,000
Speaker 2: change felt more smooth and gradual, Whereas when the change

1710
01:38:00,280 --> 01:38:03,880
Speaker 2: came like you know, a wrecking ball, where I have

1711
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:06,559
Speaker 2: this feeling and I'm just telling you it it's because

1712
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:09,000
Speaker 2: I didn't tell you about all the little, the little

1713
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:12,479
Speaker 2: incremental changes and sometimes you don't know it's even happening.

1714
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:14,960
Speaker 2: So it's not your fault or this is not something

1715
01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:17,080
Speaker 2: that you can say has to be the case. But

1716
01:38:17,800 --> 01:38:19,879
Speaker 2: I think that's why being more truthful and more honest,

1717
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:24,719
Speaker 2: more regularly and consistently allows for the change to feel

1718
01:38:24,760 --> 01:38:27,679
Speaker 2: more gradual. It's almost like going back to your dance analogy,

1719
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:29,760
Speaker 2: like if you're about to throw someone up in the

1720
01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:32,240
Speaker 2: air and catch them. Yes, there has to have been

1721
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:36,040
Speaker 2: a touch or a preparation before someone just grabs hold

1722
01:38:36,080 --> 01:38:38,439
Speaker 2: of you and throws you in the air. And it's like, well,

1723
01:38:38,439 --> 01:38:41,720
Speaker 2: I would have liked to warning, yes. And that's why

1724
01:38:41,880 --> 01:38:45,400
Speaker 2: your analogy is so good, because it's you would throw

1725
01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:46,960
Speaker 2: someone up in a dance at some point if you

1726
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:49,560
Speaker 2: were both talented and gifted enough. But there would have

1727
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:51,360
Speaker 2: been a preparation. There would have been a nod, there

1728
01:38:51,360 --> 01:38:53,360
Speaker 2: would have been a look, a feel, a touch or

1729
01:38:54,240 --> 01:38:57,360
Speaker 2: to set that up. And like one of the hardest

1730
01:38:57,400 --> 01:38:59,799
Speaker 2: questions you talked about asking answer it asking yourself difficult,

1731
01:38:59,840 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 2: ques and I want to ask you something about that.

1732
01:39:01,479 --> 01:39:04,559
Speaker 2: But one thing I've said to my wife is, if

1733
01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:06,880
Speaker 2: you ever fall out of love with me, please tell me,

1734
01:39:07,400 --> 01:39:09,639
Speaker 2: because I don't want to live a day without love.

1735
01:39:10,240 --> 01:39:13,000
Speaker 2: I'm really confident about the fact that I'm worthy of

1736
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:15,280
Speaker 2: love and that I want to experience love in my life.

1737
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:17,439
Speaker 2: If you ever fall out of me, just tell me

1738
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 2: it's okay, because I don't have the desire to stay

1739
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:27,040
Speaker 2: somewhere for any other reason. And it sounds risky saying

1740
01:39:27,080 --> 01:39:28,840
Speaker 2: that and extreme, but to me, it's a greater risk

1741
01:39:28,920 --> 01:39:31,760
Speaker 2: to have spent ten extra years with someone and then

1742
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 2: they tell me I haven't really loved you for the

1743
01:39:33,400 --> 01:39:35,680
Speaker 2: last five ten years. And then I'm like, I've lived

1744
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:37,880
Speaker 2: without love for ten years in my life and I

1745
01:39:37,880 --> 01:39:40,040
Speaker 2: don't want to be in that place because I've seen

1746
01:39:40,439 --> 01:39:42,760
Speaker 2: people go through that and not be happy. And so

1747
01:39:43,640 --> 01:39:47,320
Speaker 2: it does come with a humility and a openness to

1748
01:39:47,479 --> 01:39:52,840
Speaker 2: have very difficult conversations and not to force something that, oh,

1749
01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:54,519
Speaker 2: it's been going to get great for twelve years, it

1750
01:39:54,560 --> 01:39:57,720
Speaker 2: has to it should do, it must do, and it's like,

1751
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:00,000
Speaker 2: well maybe no, Like, yes, if it does, it's great

1752
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:04,160
Speaker 2: and it is right now, but why should right now

1753
01:40:04,280 --> 01:40:07,280
Speaker 2: be a prediction for how you feel in fifteen years

1754
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:09,479
Speaker 2: with everything else that's going to change.

1755
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:12,200
Speaker 1: I think if I knew I really couldn't meet the

1756
01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:14,599
Speaker 1: needs of someone and they couldn't meet my needs, if

1757
01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:16,800
Speaker 1: I really couldn't make them happy and they couldn't make

1758
01:40:16,840 --> 01:40:20,120
Speaker 1: me happy, like forcing them to stay in that situation,

1759
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:24,439
Speaker 1: it's just really that makes love impossible, like the gates.

1760
01:40:24,680 --> 01:40:28,760
Speaker 1: So I totally get what you're saying. And my mum

1761
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:31,200
Speaker 1: said this thing to me, which was like, you want

1762
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:34,840
Speaker 1: to be with someone because you want them, not because

1763
01:40:34,840 --> 01:40:38,719
Speaker 1: you need them. And I think maybe another reason why

1764
01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:44,240
Speaker 1: I didn't get married younger is because I think maybe

1765
01:40:44,240 --> 01:40:46,920
Speaker 1: I would have married someone not knowing who I was,

1766
01:40:47,640 --> 01:40:50,960
Speaker 1: and I would have needed them, maybe not wanted them.

1767
01:40:51,960 --> 01:40:55,040
Speaker 1: And I think now I have a life that's whole

1768
01:40:55,080 --> 01:40:57,760
Speaker 1: and complete as it is, and I would be making

1769
01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:00,880
Speaker 1: a choice from a place of I just want you

1770
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:06,360
Speaker 1: and I don't need you. But I just want you,

1771
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:09,120
Speaker 1: and I don't. I don't think I was that woman

1772
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:10,880
Speaker 1: five years ago.

1773
01:41:11,160 --> 01:41:13,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. And there's so much, so much

1774
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:16,800
Speaker 2: to be said for attracting from a place of peace,

1775
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:22,040
Speaker 2: because you know what peace feels like, and so then

1776
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:24,120
Speaker 2: anyone or anything that comes into your life.

1777
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:26,040
Speaker 1: I'm what feeling satisfied feels like.

1778
01:41:26,280 --> 01:41:29,040
Speaker 2: Satisfied is probably even a better way, and that feeling

1779
01:41:29,120 --> 01:41:31,560
Speaker 2: of I know what it feels like to be satisfied,

1780
01:41:32,120 --> 01:41:34,639
Speaker 2: and so I now know whether someone makes me more

1781
01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:36,040
Speaker 2: satisfied or less.

1782
01:41:36,080 --> 01:41:38,439
Speaker 1: I know what my baseline. You don't know what your

1783
01:41:38,479 --> 01:41:40,720
Speaker 1: baseline happy is, then how do you You've got no

1784
01:41:40,840 --> 01:41:43,719
Speaker 1: idea of knowing what's going on at all.

1785
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:45,720
Speaker 2: And that's not feeling of being complete or having it

1786
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:48,560
Speaker 2: all figured out. It's like, I know what satisfy is

1787
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:50,240
Speaker 2: a great word. It's like, I know what it feels

1788
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:53,839
Speaker 2: like to be at peace with myself or satisfied with myself,

1789
01:41:53,880 --> 01:41:59,080
Speaker 2: and now everyone can show me, yeah, where that pendulum swings.

1790
01:41:59,400 --> 01:41:59,639
Speaker 1: Yes.

1791
01:42:00,760 --> 01:42:03,040
Speaker 2: One thing you said which which really resonated with me,

1792
01:42:03,080 --> 01:42:05,519
Speaker 2: is that you've had to ask yourself so many hard

1793
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:08,160
Speaker 2: questions to do the work. And I want to ask you,

1794
01:42:08,200 --> 01:42:10,880
Speaker 2: what's one of the hardest questions you've ever had to

1795
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:13,720
Speaker 2: ask yourself? If you could recall, well.

1796
01:42:13,479 --> 01:42:15,639
Speaker 1: The first one that comes to mind, and then maybe

1797
01:42:15,680 --> 01:42:18,040
Speaker 1: I'll dig for a deep or different one. Is like

1798
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:22,200
Speaker 1: to have to admit to myself or ask myself the

1799
01:42:22,280 --> 01:42:26,479
Speaker 1: question of like, right now, have the career and the

1800
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:32,080
Speaker 1: life that like looks like the dream, But are you

1801
01:42:32,840 --> 01:42:36,240
Speaker 1: really happy? Emma? Are you really healthy? Are you really happy?

1802
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:39,559
Speaker 1: Like is this really what you want? And to be

1803
01:42:39,680 --> 01:42:42,559
Speaker 1: at that point and like realize and have to admit

1804
01:42:42,640 --> 01:42:46,200
Speaker 1: to myself that I wasn't and I didn't was one

1805
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:49,479
Speaker 1: of the scariest things I've ever had to do, because

1806
01:42:50,320 --> 01:42:51,960
Speaker 1: you know, I basically had to ask myself on a

1807
01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:56,240
Speaker 1: daily basis, like I felt like I was crazy and

1808
01:42:57,439 --> 01:43:01,120
Speaker 1: walking away from something without knowing what You're walking towards

1809
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:07,720
Speaker 1: was not having the answers, but leaving something that was

1810
01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:12,799
Speaker 1: that the world considered to be of such high value,

1811
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:17,280
Speaker 1: such a high value kind of moment in my professional

1812
01:43:17,280 --> 01:43:21,040
Speaker 1: life and career. I think that was a real sitting

1813
01:43:21,080 --> 01:43:24,400
Speaker 1: with that was a real moment of reckoning of like,

1814
01:43:25,320 --> 01:43:27,519
Speaker 1: can you tell yourself the truth? Can you live with

1815
01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:30,679
Speaker 1: your truth? Can you accept the fact that for most

1816
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:35,920
Speaker 1: other people your truth is pretty confusing and unpalatable. That

1817
01:43:36,080 --> 01:43:42,960
Speaker 1: was definitely hard moment of sitting. More recently, because I've

1818
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:48,160
Speaker 1: been being my own partner asking myself, are you really

1819
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:53,360
Speaker 1: living your values things that you preach? Are you actually

1820
01:43:53,400 --> 01:43:57,240
Speaker 1: aligned and actually looking at some spaces in my life

1821
01:43:57,240 --> 01:44:01,200
Speaker 1: where I was like, shit, no, not at all. I'm

1822
01:44:01,200 --> 01:44:04,800
Speaker 1: actually not doing what I talk about. And I need

1823
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:07,280
Speaker 1: to like create some sort of urgency or a deadline

1824
01:44:07,280 --> 01:44:09,280
Speaker 1: for that so that I make sure that I am

1825
01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:13,320
Speaker 1: a persitive integrity. I purport to be someone that cares

1826
01:44:13,360 --> 01:44:17,400
Speaker 1: about the world and about the planet and sustainability. And

1827
01:44:18,320 --> 01:44:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, there are some things I was doing. Was

1828
01:44:20,640 --> 01:44:23,879
Speaker 1: it enough by my own standards, not by anyone else's,

1829
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:28,040
Speaker 1: just by my own? Probably not? But what's nice is

1830
01:44:29,479 --> 01:44:31,599
Speaker 1: I actually have the time now to be like, Okay,

1831
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:34,599
Speaker 1: we need to do about it, get on with it,

1832
01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:35,120
Speaker 1: and like.

1833
01:44:35,240 --> 01:44:37,719
Speaker 2: But those are thank you for those. Those are great questions,

1834
01:44:38,240 --> 01:44:42,200
Speaker 2: really really great questions, and so hard for so many reasons,

1835
01:44:42,280 --> 01:44:44,840
Speaker 2: especially when you talked about like when you're stepping away

1836
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:49,120
Speaker 2: from and stepping towards, did you have people in the

1837
01:44:49,160 --> 01:44:51,360
Speaker 2: industry or like people that you could talk to that

1838
01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:53,519
Speaker 2: felt the same way, Like did you have co stars

1839
01:44:53,640 --> 01:44:55,880
Speaker 2: or friends or wow, I.

1840
01:44:55,880 --> 01:44:58,080
Speaker 1: Know I don't know anyone else. I'll never say that

1841
01:44:58,120 --> 01:45:01,760
Speaker 1: I quit acting or be an actor. I'm still open

1842
01:45:01,800 --> 01:45:05,400
Speaker 1: to doing it again. But I certainly made a decision

1843
01:45:05,439 --> 01:45:09,920
Speaker 1: to take time to figure out to not know and

1844
01:45:10,000 --> 01:45:15,960
Speaker 1: to you know, I had like this whole disassembling the

1845
01:45:16,120 --> 01:45:20,800
Speaker 1: structure that's needed to carry the load of once and

1846
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:23,800
Speaker 1: it's like there's an agent and a publicist and a

1847
01:45:23,880 --> 01:45:28,920
Speaker 1: manager and a personal assistant, and there's all these people

1848
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:33,559
Speaker 1: and lives who are intertwined with mine. And navigating and

1849
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:36,880
Speaker 1: caring for and negotiating that with people as well was

1850
01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:41,640
Speaker 1: like it was really tricky, and although I was just

1851
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:46,439
Speaker 1: bloody terrified, Like I think there's a kind of infantilization

1852
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:51,920
Speaker 1: that can happen when you work as much as I did,

1853
01:45:53,120 --> 01:45:55,559
Speaker 1: and a kind of lot of independence that means that

1854
01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:58,519
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, can I even do my

1855
01:45:58,600 --> 01:46:03,439
Speaker 1: life if I don't have this like army of people

1856
01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:06,840
Speaker 1: who are like helping me do the most menial and

1857
01:46:06,880 --> 01:46:10,519
Speaker 1: basic of things, Like can I actually like do this

1858
01:46:10,560 --> 01:46:13,000
Speaker 1: stuff myself? And I don't even say that in terms

1859
01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:16,000
Speaker 1: of like capability, but like just from the place of like,

1860
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:18,360
Speaker 1: it's difficult for me to walk down the street sometimes.

1861
01:46:18,920 --> 01:46:21,880
Speaker 1: So if I'm going to start to take on truly

1862
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:24,400
Speaker 1: the responsibility for most of my life myself, like, what's

1863
01:46:24,479 --> 01:46:27,439
Speaker 1: that going to be? Like? Can I really do that stuff?

1864
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:31,120
Speaker 1: I think fame makes you feel like you can't do

1865
01:46:31,160 --> 01:46:35,400
Speaker 1: things for yourself in a way that can really disempower

1866
01:46:35,439 --> 01:46:40,240
Speaker 1: you and move your confidence and autonomy as a human being.

1867
01:46:40,520 --> 01:46:43,360
Speaker 1: That's that's really disabling and.

1868
01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:45,559
Speaker 2: For everyone who's wondering. Yeah, Emma called me up and

1869
01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:48,120
Speaker 2: I was like, should I speak in publicists? She's like, nope,

1870
01:46:48,520 --> 01:46:50,320
Speaker 2: my publicist. Like I was like, do I need to

1871
01:46:50,400 --> 01:46:52,400
Speaker 2: check on the manager? Nope, I am my manager, And

1872
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:56,360
Speaker 2: like that was literally the conversation we had this podcast. Heself.

1873
01:46:56,920 --> 01:47:00,200
Speaker 2: There was no booker, there was no booking system, there

1874
01:47:00,240 --> 01:47:03,040
Speaker 2: was no, there was no reach out. It was literally

1875
01:47:03,040 --> 01:47:05,679
Speaker 2: Emma doing it herself, which is proof you are living

1876
01:47:05,720 --> 01:47:08,760
Speaker 2: your values. Thanks and you are aligned with what you're saying.

1877
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:10,920
Speaker 2: I wanted to people to know that thank you.

1878
01:47:11,080 --> 01:47:13,360
Speaker 1: That What's so funny though, now it's like, because I

1879
01:47:13,439 --> 01:47:17,040
Speaker 1: do everything myself, there's like a fifty percent chance you

1880
01:47:17,080 --> 01:47:19,759
Speaker 1: would have not thought it was me. Or like sometimes when.

1881
01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:21,679
Speaker 2: I reached out to people, I had plenty of moments

1882
01:47:22,240 --> 01:47:25,639
Speaker 2: to take I was like, wait a minute, like very

1883
01:47:25,720 --> 01:47:30,080
Speaker 2: very amount of followers, I think it's not me.

1884
01:47:30,680 --> 01:47:32,680
Speaker 1: And so like I have a fifty to fifty rate

1885
01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:35,639
Speaker 1: of people actually just like not responding to me because

1886
01:47:35,680 --> 01:47:37,839
Speaker 1: they don't think I'd be reaching out myself.

1887
01:47:38,320 --> 01:47:41,280
Speaker 2: That's real. I had to do a secondary I think

1888
01:47:41,280 --> 01:47:42,360
Speaker 2: I rejected this morning.

1889
01:47:44,120 --> 01:47:47,519
Speaker 1: Definitely, am I going to turn up in some like

1890
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:49,080
Speaker 1: catfridge situation?

1891
01:47:49,640 --> 01:47:50,200
Speaker 2: It's wild.

1892
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:54,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oddly, sometimes it takes more work me trying to

1893
01:47:54,760 --> 01:47:57,760
Speaker 1: do things myself than through the system.

1894
01:47:57,880 --> 01:48:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, you did great job, but that yeah,

1895
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:06,680
Speaker 2: those hard questions that you asked yourself, I mean, what

1896
01:48:07,120 --> 01:48:11,280
Speaker 2: was it that gave you courage to walk a path

1897
01:48:11,360 --> 01:48:14,240
Speaker 2: where you don't know the next three steps When you

1898
01:48:14,320 --> 01:48:17,800
Speaker 2: have an entire career lined up on this. You have

1899
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:20,240
Speaker 2: an amazing career. Every movie you've been in has been

1900
01:48:20,280 --> 01:48:22,800
Speaker 2: magical and amazing. Like it's when you look at your

1901
01:48:22,840 --> 01:48:26,880
Speaker 2: portfolio of choices, like they're all brilliant performances, they're great

1902
01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:30,439
Speaker 2: films that and you only would have more of that.

1903
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:33,639
Speaker 2: So it's also not like you're leaving a career that's

1904
01:48:33,760 --> 01:48:35,960
Speaker 2: kind of had its you know what I mean, it's

1905
01:48:36,680 --> 01:48:41,760
Speaker 2: at a place where no business oriented person could imagine why.

1906
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:46,160
Speaker 2: And so what gives you courage when one side is

1907
01:48:46,280 --> 01:48:49,679
Speaker 2: so clear and one side is not clear at all?

1908
01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:53,000
Speaker 1: Again, I'm going to tell the honest version of this story.

1909
01:48:53,960 --> 01:48:58,760
Speaker 1: I'd love to tell you that it was like this

1910
01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:01,920
Speaker 1: incredible courage and determination I have inside of me, And

1911
01:49:03,120 --> 01:49:06,919
Speaker 1: yes there's part of that, not going to like completely

1912
01:49:07,000 --> 01:49:09,639
Speaker 1: erase my role in all of this, but I think

1913
01:49:09,680 --> 01:49:12,160
Speaker 1: a big part was that it was coming to a

1914
01:49:12,240 --> 01:49:19,519
Speaker 1: point with my health and nervous system where I was

1915
01:49:19,520 --> 01:49:23,400
Speaker 1: starting to hit a point of not no return. But

1916
01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:29,599
Speaker 1: like it's interesting, I eat well, I do yoga, I

1917
01:49:29,640 --> 01:49:33,200
Speaker 1: do medicine, I do all the things right, But I

1918
01:49:33,200 --> 01:49:35,800
Speaker 1: think I was using those as a way of mitigating

1919
01:49:36,840 --> 01:49:39,759
Speaker 1: how much stress I was under as opposed to actually,

1920
01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:46,000
Speaker 1: what those things are really for are compasses and points

1921
01:49:46,040 --> 01:49:51,080
Speaker 1: towards our truth, and I so was. I was using

1922
01:49:51,080 --> 01:49:58,799
Speaker 1: them as a way of like bolstering myself and allowing

1923
01:49:58,800 --> 01:50:02,720
Speaker 1: myself to continue down a part that actually was kind

1924
01:50:02,760 --> 01:50:05,439
Speaker 1: of wrecking me. And I think it was just like

1925
01:50:06,040 --> 01:50:11,240
Speaker 1: my immune system couldn't pretend anymore. I was on seven

1926
01:50:11,320 --> 01:50:14,680
Speaker 1: or eight packets of an antibiotic every year because my

1927
01:50:14,680 --> 01:50:17,439
Speaker 1: immune system was so low that I would just constantly

1928
01:50:17,479 --> 01:50:19,600
Speaker 1: be getting I just constantly be getting sick and a

1929
01:50:19,640 --> 01:50:23,960
Speaker 1: science infection and whatever else. Like my body just started

1930
01:50:24,680 --> 01:50:29,040
Speaker 1: being like no. I went from being someone who I

1931
01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:31,400
Speaker 1: would say it still handle stress and pressure well, and

1932
01:50:31,439 --> 01:50:34,680
Speaker 1: in the moment I could always do it, but the

1933
01:50:34,800 --> 01:50:40,360
Speaker 1: cost afterwards was starting to get more and more serious,

1934
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:43,839
Speaker 1: to the point where it was like I'd always turned

1935
01:50:43,880 --> 01:50:48,000
Speaker 1: down or I actually remember I was in my early

1936
01:50:48,040 --> 01:50:50,839
Speaker 1: twenties when a publicist first offered me a beta blocker.

1937
01:50:51,160 --> 01:50:54,679
Speaker 1: I was nervous before a carpet, and it's the only

1938
01:50:54,680 --> 01:50:59,240
Speaker 1: other time I ever took anything. And I was fine

1939
01:50:59,360 --> 01:51:01,840
Speaker 1: for the two hours after I took it, and then

1940
01:51:01,840 --> 01:51:04,200
Speaker 1: I got back to the room and when my feelings

1941
01:51:04,240 --> 01:51:09,599
Speaker 1: came back to me, I was like overwrought with grief

1942
01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:14,559
Speaker 1: and feeling of having blocked it, and so I'd always

1943
01:51:14,720 --> 01:51:18,000
Speaker 1: and after that, I never allowed anyone to give me

1944
01:51:18,040 --> 01:51:22,439
Speaker 1: anything again, even though I was offered things multiple times,

1945
01:51:23,320 --> 01:51:25,360
Speaker 1: and doctors just wanted to give me things for jet

1946
01:51:25,439 --> 01:51:28,960
Speaker 1: lag and for sleep and for nerves, and oh, everyone

1947
01:51:29,040 --> 01:51:31,680
Speaker 1: takes it. This is you know, there's no shame in

1948
01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:35,280
Speaker 1: this or whatever. But I just I felt like in

1949
01:51:35,439 --> 01:51:37,560
Speaker 1: order to keep going, I was going to have to

1950
01:51:37,600 --> 01:51:41,200
Speaker 1: make a decision of like, are you okay with being

1951
01:51:41,760 --> 01:51:47,920
Speaker 1: low level unwell and medicated essentially, And I just knew

1952
01:51:48,320 --> 01:51:52,360
Speaker 1: that wasn't a choice for me. So in a way,

1953
01:51:52,360 --> 01:51:54,880
Speaker 1: I have my body to think, because my body just

1954
01:51:55,400 --> 01:51:57,519
Speaker 1: I didn't want to ignore my body anymore. And it

1955
01:51:57,560 --> 01:52:00,400
Speaker 1: didn't matter how many silent retreats I want, or how

1956
01:52:00,439 --> 01:52:03,880
Speaker 1: much yogurt I did, or what like what new thing

1957
01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:05,960
Speaker 1: I did to try and take care of myself, my

1958
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:12,200
Speaker 1: body was done. And that was then, I think, when

1959
01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 1: I went away and found a relationship with myself and

1960
01:52:19,560 --> 01:52:23,400
Speaker 1: my practice and just having trust and faith in a

1961
01:52:23,439 --> 01:52:27,400
Speaker 1: way that I never had before, and I started listening

1962
01:52:28,280 --> 01:52:31,840
Speaker 1: more carefully to like these little whispers of like, oh,

1963
01:52:31,920 --> 01:52:33,960
Speaker 1: like maybe this should be the thing you do, or

1964
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:37,439
Speaker 1: like even coming and doing this, of like I think

1965
01:52:37,439 --> 01:52:39,760
Speaker 1: you should go and do this podcast just listening to

1966
01:52:39,800 --> 01:52:43,719
Speaker 1: myself the clues basically and listening to the universe whatever

1967
01:52:43,760 --> 01:52:46,280
Speaker 1: that means. But I never had that before. I never

1968
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:49,599
Speaker 1: had I never knew how to listen for those things

1969
01:52:49,640 --> 01:52:54,360
Speaker 1: before I truly went away and had nothing for a while.

1970
01:52:54,720 --> 01:53:00,200
Speaker 1: So that was probably the best result of all that.

1971
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:03,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it still takes so much courage,

1972
01:53:03,520 --> 01:53:06,240
Speaker 2: because it does even though you didn't see it that

1973
01:53:06,280 --> 01:53:09,240
Speaker 2: way and you may not have noticed it, it still

1974
01:53:09,439 --> 01:53:13,160
Speaker 2: takes so much courage to listen to your body because

1975
01:53:13,320 --> 01:53:16,240
Speaker 2: it is easy to keep medicating in all the ways

1976
01:53:16,360 --> 01:53:20,640
Speaker 2: to break it anyway. Yeah, and to push it to

1977
01:53:20,720 --> 01:53:24,759
Speaker 2: the edges and the limits of its ability, and because

1978
01:53:24,760 --> 01:53:28,200
Speaker 2: you're so addicted or intoxicated by the success or whatever.

1979
01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:30,600
Speaker 1: Maybe I guess the couragest part was just knowing I

1980
01:53:30,600 --> 01:53:32,479
Speaker 1: didn't want to numb out. That was the point at

1981
01:53:32,520 --> 01:53:34,960
Speaker 1: which it got too big of a cost, because I

1982
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:37,200
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, if I feel like I need to be,

1983
01:53:39,080 --> 01:53:42,200
Speaker 1: I'm at the point where the price is too high. Now.

1984
01:53:42,880 --> 01:53:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved what you said about when they're meant

1985
01:53:45,439 --> 01:53:48,040
Speaker 2: to be compassed to our truth and not like this

1986
01:53:48,600 --> 01:53:52,679
Speaker 2: band aid pacification of And I've.

1987
01:53:52,479 --> 01:53:55,479
Speaker 1: Been highly, really effectively using those band aids. They all

1988
01:53:55,479 --> 01:53:57,839
Speaker 1: carry you far, like I had a lot of practice.

1989
01:53:57,960 --> 01:54:00,839
Speaker 2: I think that's how they're presented now too. It's become

1990
01:54:01,000 --> 01:54:04,040
Speaker 2: this and that's why when you said that, then you

1991
01:54:05,040 --> 01:54:07,120
Speaker 2: it's almost like I'm trying to think of it a

1992
01:54:07,160 --> 01:54:08,960
Speaker 2: good metaphor, but the one that's coming to my mind,

1993
01:54:08,960 --> 01:54:11,400
Speaker 2: it's almost like driving to the grocery store in a

1994
01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:13,400
Speaker 2: sports car and it's like a sports cars made for

1995
01:54:13,479 --> 01:54:17,559
Speaker 2: this high speed track, like that's what it's for, yep,

1996
01:54:17,720 --> 01:54:20,160
Speaker 2: But you're using it just to drive twenty five miles

1997
01:54:20,200 --> 01:54:22,920
Speaker 2: an hour, yeah, to the grocery store. And it's like, no,

1998
01:54:23,000 --> 01:54:26,640
Speaker 2: it's it has so much more capability and ability to

1999
01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:30,000
Speaker 2: take you somewhere phenomenally, but you're using it for a

2000
01:54:30,040 --> 01:54:31,479
Speaker 2: really simple basic task.

2001
01:54:31,680 --> 01:54:33,440
Speaker 1: Not gonna lie though. I remember when I did my

2002
01:54:33,480 --> 01:54:39,520
Speaker 1: first for pastener and sat long enough, and I went

2003
01:54:39,600 --> 01:54:43,480
Speaker 1: to my teacher and I was like, what have I done?

2004
01:54:43,800 --> 01:54:44,720
Speaker 2: Go and tell me about this?

2005
01:54:45,200 --> 01:54:45,800
Speaker 1: What have I done?

2006
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:46,240
Speaker 2: You mean?

2007
01:54:47,080 --> 01:54:49,320
Speaker 1: I because in a way it was almost like I

2008
01:54:49,440 --> 01:54:54,560
Speaker 1: realized once you start paying attention to your truth. It's

2009
01:54:54,680 --> 01:54:58,960
Speaker 1: very difficult to go back. And in some way it

2010
01:54:59,080 --> 01:55:01,840
Speaker 1: felt like I was like, oh my god, I don't

2011
01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:04,000
Speaker 1: know if I like this. I don't know if I

2012
01:55:04,160 --> 01:55:07,320
Speaker 1: like this. I maybe I want to go back. And

2013
01:55:07,400 --> 01:55:09,880
Speaker 1: once you step through it, you you kind of can't

2014
01:55:09,880 --> 01:55:11,839
Speaker 1: go back. And I remember him looking at me calmly

2015
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:15,400
Speaker 1: and saying, could you even go back now, even if

2016
01:55:15,400 --> 01:55:17,480
Speaker 1: you wanted to? And I was like, I guess not.

2017
01:55:18,120 --> 01:55:21,280
Speaker 1: I guess this is the path I've chosen to walk.

2018
01:55:21,480 --> 01:55:25,720
Speaker 1: And to some degree, in the same way, they're getting

2019
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:28,080
Speaker 1: cast as hermione and like making my peace with the

2020
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:30,680
Speaker 1: way that that changed my life were my marching orders.

2021
01:55:31,400 --> 01:55:37,800
Speaker 1: I think trusting that is that's that's all I can

2022
01:55:37,800 --> 01:55:40,600
Speaker 1: do at this point. Idly one for dear life.

2023
01:55:41,560 --> 01:55:43,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the mafia. Once you're in you know

2024
01:55:43,480 --> 01:55:45,520
Speaker 2: too much. Yeah, it's true.

2025
01:55:46,040 --> 01:55:50,640
Speaker 1: I'll never forget that moment. I'll never forget. Oh no,

2026
01:55:51,080 --> 01:55:53,560
Speaker 1: this is undoable now, isn't it. And he was like

2027
01:55:53,960 --> 01:55:57,560
Speaker 1: kind of yeah. I was like, oh no, it's so uncomfortable.

2028
01:55:57,800 --> 01:56:00,560
Speaker 1: It's so uncomfortable being asked with myself, and then I

2029
01:56:00,600 --> 01:56:02,680
Speaker 1: have to be honest with other people as well, this

2030
01:56:02,720 --> 01:56:03,400
Speaker 1: is a nightmare.

2031
01:56:03,600 --> 01:56:09,360
Speaker 2: Why did I do this? Why am I here? Oh god,

2032
01:56:10,560 --> 01:56:14,120
Speaker 2: I'm just imagining you retreat, like coming out of it

2033
01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:17,480
Speaker 2: and just having that reaction. Yeah, it's so funny, so good.

2034
01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:19,920
Speaker 2: That needs to get added to the plane.

2035
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:24,720
Speaker 1: Okay, that actually, yeah, I wrote something. I wrote something

2036
01:56:24,720 --> 01:56:28,720
Speaker 1: about my doing the pastor for the first for the

2037
01:56:28,720 --> 01:56:31,640
Speaker 1: first time, because my god, that's such a it's such

2038
01:56:31,680 --> 01:56:35,320
Speaker 1: a roller coaster. Yeah, it's such a roller coaster. Anything

2039
01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:37,320
Speaker 1: you want to share about it, sure, yeah, I don't

2040
01:56:37,320 --> 01:56:39,000
Speaker 1: want to brought you to death. I mean, I think

2041
01:56:39,040 --> 01:56:41,600
Speaker 1: what was funny was like, I have this picture that

2042
01:56:41,640 --> 01:56:47,160
Speaker 1: I drew of day day two, and it's like green

2043
01:56:47,320 --> 01:56:49,920
Speaker 1: and pink and there's butterflies on it, and it literally

2044
01:56:49,960 --> 01:56:51,840
Speaker 1: says I think, it says this is so embarrassing. It

2045
01:56:51,880 --> 01:56:58,160
Speaker 1: says I am beautiful. I just felt like I was like,

2046
01:56:58,320 --> 01:57:01,200
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is blows. I was like riding

2047
01:57:01,240 --> 01:57:05,840
Speaker 1: this wave of like meditation, ecstasy, basically whatever dopamine here

2048
01:57:05,880 --> 01:57:09,880
Speaker 1: I was getting from that was wild. I just felt unbelievable.

2049
01:57:10,800 --> 01:57:14,760
Speaker 1: And then I surfed that wave straight into some kind

2050
01:57:14,840 --> 01:57:19,560
Speaker 1: of like brick wall of Oh my god, like all

2051
01:57:19,600 --> 01:57:22,080
Speaker 1: the things in life that you think are outside of

2052
01:57:22,160 --> 01:57:26,200
Speaker 1: you actually live inside you. And so even when you're

2053
01:57:26,240 --> 01:57:28,880
Speaker 1: like in this beautiful place, on this gorgeous meditation retreat

2054
01:57:28,880 --> 01:57:32,360
Speaker 1: with all of these wonderful, enlightened people, everything starts to

2055
01:57:32,440 --> 01:57:36,480
Speaker 1: drive you crazy, and even the like salt shaker and

2056
01:57:36,520 --> 01:57:38,440
Speaker 1: the pepper pot in front of you start to take

2057
01:57:38,480 --> 01:57:41,920
Speaker 1: on the shapes of your real life, and you realize

2058
01:57:41,920 --> 01:57:44,520
Speaker 1: that your mind just starts creating all this drama for you,

2059
01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:49,600
Speaker 1: even though there's nothing going on literally, And it was

2060
01:57:49,880 --> 01:57:52,840
Speaker 1: just it was such a wild experience to kind of

2061
01:57:52,840 --> 01:57:57,280
Speaker 1: sit there and be like, oh my god, I'm creating

2062
01:57:57,400 --> 01:58:00,680
Speaker 1: all of my own drama. This is a night it's me.

2063
01:58:01,320 --> 01:58:02,879
Speaker 2: It's me. I'm the problem.

2064
01:58:03,600 --> 01:58:06,680
Speaker 1: And I was like, I can't stay here. I can't

2065
01:58:06,680 --> 01:58:09,640
Speaker 1: do this. This is way too hard living with myself

2066
01:58:09,680 --> 01:58:11,960
Speaker 1: and my own thoughts is going to try this is unbearable.

2067
01:58:12,160 --> 01:58:15,680
Speaker 1: I can't do this. That was a really big learning

2068
01:58:15,720 --> 01:58:17,440
Speaker 1: And what I have to remember all the time is

2069
01:58:17,480 --> 01:58:22,160
Speaker 1: like I as a perfectionist, which again is a kind

2070
01:58:22,200 --> 01:58:26,240
Speaker 1: of violence on yourself. I would try to like shame

2071
01:58:26,280 --> 01:58:30,200
Speaker 1: and blame myself into and like kind of shake myself

2072
01:58:30,280 --> 01:58:35,520
Speaker 1: up and give myself these kinds of like talkings to

2073
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:38,440
Speaker 1: to make myself do stuff and sometimes, to be honest

2074
01:58:38,440 --> 01:58:40,600
Speaker 1: with you, they work in the short term and in

2075
01:58:40,640 --> 01:58:44,000
Speaker 1: the long term they fail you miserably, like they just

2076
01:58:44,040 --> 01:58:47,320
Speaker 1: do not work. The only way that I have learned

2077
01:58:47,400 --> 01:58:53,280
Speaker 1: to change my patterns, to show up for myself better,

2078
01:58:53,360 --> 01:58:55,760
Speaker 1: to change in the ways I want to change and

2079
01:58:55,800 --> 01:59:00,880
Speaker 1: grow is to be loving towards myself. So getting to

2080
01:59:00,920 --> 01:59:03,960
Speaker 1: be in the room with that person at that moment

2081
01:59:04,520 --> 01:59:06,200
Speaker 1: was a massive gift.

2082
01:59:08,440 --> 01:59:10,480
Speaker 2: Someone that you're going to attend a class with can

2083
01:59:10,520 --> 01:59:12,480
Speaker 2: become such a big teacher for you when you allow

2084
01:59:12,520 --> 01:59:14,640
Speaker 2: it to be. And yeah, you know, someone who wasn't

2085
01:59:14,640 --> 01:59:16,600
Speaker 2: the leader or the guide of the group can can

2086
01:59:16,640 --> 01:59:35,120
Speaker 2: have such an impact on you. Speaking aout love, did

2087
01:59:35,120 --> 01:59:38,080
Speaker 2: you want to share the Is it the practice that

2088
01:59:38,120 --> 01:59:40,800
Speaker 2: you went through recently with? Is that what you? Yeah?

2089
01:59:40,880 --> 01:59:41,280
Speaker 1: The ring?

2090
01:59:41,440 --> 01:59:41,760
Speaker 2: Yeah there?

2091
01:59:42,040 --> 01:59:44,160
Speaker 1: Ye oh my god, that's sweet of you to remember

2092
01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:49,240
Speaker 1: I mentioned that. Yeah, I I guess. Having gone through

2093
01:59:49,320 --> 01:59:53,600
Speaker 1: this odyssey, which has been the last I guess seven years,

2094
01:59:54,520 --> 01:59:58,320
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I kind of feel like I've

2095
01:59:58,360 --> 02:00:02,400
Speaker 1: got to a place will continue forever where I want

2096
02:00:02,560 --> 02:00:06,360
Speaker 1: to celebrate where I ended up after I kind of

2097
02:00:07,920 --> 02:00:11,280
Speaker 1: left land. It felt like and yeah, I did a

2098
02:00:11,360 --> 02:00:16,520
Speaker 1: ritual with or I guess, just a day of celebrating

2099
02:00:16,840 --> 02:00:22,000
Speaker 1: with my friends and chosen family, and they each brought

2100
02:00:22,040 --> 02:00:26,960
Speaker 1: me this ring, which has twenty two pedals on it,

2101
02:00:27,200 --> 02:00:30,440
Speaker 1: and each of them bought one. And I've just never

2102
02:00:30,480 --> 02:00:35,400
Speaker 1: owned anything so valuable in my life because to me,

2103
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:38,960
Speaker 1: it represents the life that I've built, which was the

2104
02:00:38,960 --> 02:00:41,080
Speaker 1: one that I really wanted, which was one that was

2105
02:00:41,120 --> 02:00:49,200
Speaker 1: made up of community and my roots and faith and trust.

2106
02:00:49,720 --> 02:00:52,960
Speaker 1: And in some funny way, it signals to me that

2107
02:00:53,680 --> 02:00:59,400
Speaker 1: even though I have no outwood signs of my success

2108
02:00:59,440 --> 02:01:03,680
Speaker 1: save for this crazy one woman play I've written, I

2109
02:01:03,680 --> 02:01:06,400
Speaker 1: don't even have my degree yet, and it signals to

2110
02:01:06,440 --> 02:01:10,400
Speaker 1: me that for me achieved what I wanted to achieve

2111
02:01:10,520 --> 02:01:17,360
Speaker 1: for myself. Wow, So that's pretty cool. I love that

2112
02:01:17,440 --> 02:01:19,160
Speaker 1: every time I look down on my finger, I can

2113
02:01:19,240 --> 02:01:21,120
Speaker 1: like see all of the faces of the people who

2114
02:01:21,160 --> 02:01:24,840
Speaker 1: bought it for me. You're amazing at holding space. You're

2115
02:01:24,960 --> 02:01:27,240
Speaker 1: so kind the amount of people who probably sat in

2116
02:01:27,240 --> 02:01:30,080
Speaker 1: this chair and then as emotional as I have, and

2117
02:01:30,160 --> 02:01:32,800
Speaker 1: you don't turn away. It's amazing.

2118
02:01:33,360 --> 02:01:34,200
Speaker 2: It's easy with you.

2119
02:01:34,720 --> 02:01:35,600
Speaker 1: That's very kind.

2120
02:01:36,240 --> 02:01:39,240
Speaker 2: Thanks you. It's really easy because it's really heartfelt. And

2121
02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:42,440
Speaker 2: you've shared so much of me before today and today

2122
02:01:42,480 --> 02:01:47,040
Speaker 2: that I felt like you shared you created that space

2123
02:01:47,080 --> 02:01:51,000
Speaker 2: for me to sit with you before today and today.

2124
02:01:51,080 --> 02:01:51,440
Speaker 1: Wow.

2125
02:01:52,280 --> 02:01:55,400
Speaker 2: What makes a real friend? So you said you had

2126
02:01:55,440 --> 02:01:59,879
Speaker 2: twenty two two twenty two yeah, two friends? What defines

2127
02:02:00,160 --> 02:02:01,160
Speaker 2: a good friend? For you?

2128
02:02:01,480 --> 02:02:01,640
Speaker 3: Oh?

2129
02:02:01,760 --> 02:02:05,760
Speaker 1: My god? For me, I've never killed anyone in my life,

2130
02:02:05,800 --> 02:02:08,480
Speaker 1: and I have no intention of killing anyone, but like,

2131
02:02:09,120 --> 02:02:11,080
Speaker 1: is the person who you can call when you're like

2132
02:02:11,360 --> 02:02:14,200
Speaker 1: they would help you carry the dead pockets? You know

2133
02:02:14,240 --> 02:02:17,920
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like the person you call you like shit,

2134
02:02:18,160 --> 02:02:20,720
Speaker 1: I think I've done this thing and I need you

2135
02:02:20,760 --> 02:02:23,160
Speaker 1: to like either tell me I'm crazy or tell me

2136
02:02:23,200 --> 02:02:25,360
Speaker 1: I'm not crazy, or tell me the truth or help

2137
02:02:25,440 --> 02:02:28,360
Speaker 1: me fix it or I don't know that. I think

2138
02:02:28,400 --> 02:02:32,160
Speaker 1: it's like the people that God, it's the people that

2139
02:02:32,200 --> 02:02:34,160
Speaker 1: you just like do not have to have airs and

2140
02:02:34,200 --> 02:02:38,520
Speaker 1: graces with, and who you can just be like this

2141
02:02:38,760 --> 02:02:43,560
Speaker 1: just happened and it's such a disaster and yeah, and

2142
02:02:43,680 --> 02:02:48,800
Speaker 1: I don't know people. I think also who can handle

2143
02:02:49,200 --> 02:02:54,280
Speaker 1: your truths, your real truths and vulnerabilities like their sacred

2144
02:02:54,720 --> 02:02:58,880
Speaker 1: and with care. I think that's been very important for

2145
02:02:58,920 --> 02:03:02,720
Speaker 1: me because I think maybe part of my bravado is

2146
02:03:03,480 --> 02:03:06,120
Speaker 1: I'll make a joke of or I'll be brave about

2147
02:03:06,120 --> 02:03:08,920
Speaker 1: things I don't feel very brave about, and it takes

2148
02:03:08,920 --> 02:03:12,440
Speaker 1: someone who knows me quite well to go she's making

2149
02:03:12,480 --> 02:03:16,400
Speaker 1: a joke about this, Yeah, she's like actually dying inside

2150
02:03:16,680 --> 02:03:19,120
Speaker 1: and I kind of know that and like I'm going

2151
02:03:19,200 --> 02:03:20,160
Speaker 1: to hold her through it.

2152
02:03:20,880 --> 02:03:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2153
02:03:21,320 --> 02:03:24,960
Speaker 1: I think real friends are the ones when you're in

2154
02:03:24,960 --> 02:03:28,000
Speaker 1: a really tight corner and not just that will like

2155
02:03:28,080 --> 02:03:30,880
Speaker 1: show up begrudgingly, but be like, what are we dealing

2156
02:03:30,880 --> 02:03:34,760
Speaker 1: with today, and like maybe we'll enjoy that or see

2157
02:03:34,760 --> 02:03:39,000
Speaker 1: that as like an honor and a privilege. Actually, I

2158
02:03:39,000 --> 02:03:41,120
Speaker 1: think that's been a big learning for me, and it's

2159
02:03:41,160 --> 02:03:43,520
Speaker 1: an honor and a gift when someone asks you for

2160
02:03:43,560 --> 02:03:47,400
Speaker 1: help or when they need you. And I think I

2161
02:03:47,480 --> 02:03:50,600
Speaker 1: used to feel really embarrassed about needing anything from anyone

2162
02:03:51,040 --> 02:03:53,240
Speaker 1: or asking for help. I used to see it as

2163
02:03:53,280 --> 02:03:56,760
Speaker 1: like a great shame, like something I was really embarrassed

2164
02:03:56,800 --> 02:04:00,520
Speaker 1: to do. And now I see it as like, I guess,

2165
02:04:00,560 --> 02:04:03,080
Speaker 1: like knowing how I feel when someone asks me for

2166
02:04:03,160 --> 02:04:06,520
Speaker 1: help that I really love and how amazing it feels

2167
02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:08,800
Speaker 1: to be able to be there for someone else I

2168
02:04:08,840 --> 02:04:11,680
Speaker 1: try to remind myself that when I'm feeling like I

2169
02:04:11,680 --> 02:04:16,760
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly burden someone else with something, I remind myself

2170
02:04:17,720 --> 02:04:21,520
Speaker 1: and do you remember how good it felt that someone

2171
02:04:21,640 --> 02:04:25,240
Speaker 1: like asked you to show up for them and that

2172
02:04:25,280 --> 02:04:28,880
Speaker 1: you got to be there for them at their worst

2173
02:04:28,960 --> 02:04:33,840
Speaker 1: or darkest. And so I think coming to understand, like

2174
02:04:34,000 --> 02:04:38,800
Speaker 1: I think I also confused codependency or like I don't know.

2175
02:04:39,400 --> 02:04:43,200
Speaker 1: I didn't we are so interdependent as species, and and

2176
02:04:44,080 --> 02:04:50,480
Speaker 1: like there's no shame in needing and wanting other people.

2177
02:04:51,080 --> 02:04:55,640
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't understand. I didn't understand, and I do.

2178
02:04:56,440 --> 02:04:58,360
Speaker 2: I love that, and I love how it started as

2179
02:04:58,480 --> 02:05:00,440
Speaker 2: if I have a kills, which I.

2180
02:05:02,120 --> 02:05:03,920
Speaker 1: Haven't.

2181
02:05:04,280 --> 02:05:07,960
Speaker 2: So good, it's so good. So it's like I did

2182
02:05:08,080 --> 02:05:10,080
Speaker 2: not expect you to say that it was so good,

2183
02:05:10,720 --> 02:05:13,120
Speaker 2: so surprising. I love it, but no, it's so it's

2184
02:05:13,120 --> 02:05:14,920
Speaker 2: so true. Like when I when I left a monastery,

2185
02:05:14,960 --> 02:05:16,280
Speaker 2: and even though I was with my wife and we

2186
02:05:16,320 --> 02:05:18,600
Speaker 2: go into a relationship and we're dating, I used to

2187
02:05:18,600 --> 02:05:21,600
Speaker 2: always feel like I didn't I always I had this

2188
02:05:21,840 --> 02:05:26,200
Speaker 2: false mindset because of my immaturity and understand what being

2189
02:05:26,200 --> 02:05:29,040
Speaker 2: a monk was in that it was in this independent

2190
02:05:29,280 --> 02:05:32,760
Speaker 2: way of not needing or wanting anyone, and that we

2191
02:05:32,760 --> 02:05:34,400
Speaker 2: were in a relationship but it was great, but like

2192
02:05:34,440 --> 02:05:36,960
Speaker 2: that wasn't and I held that immature and I probably

2193
02:05:37,040 --> 02:05:39,280
Speaker 2: verbalized it to her too many times for too long

2194
02:05:39,520 --> 02:05:41,200
Speaker 2: in the beginning of our relationship and no idea where

2195
02:05:41,240 --> 02:05:46,200
Speaker 2: she stayed. It's uh, it took recently. It was this

2196
02:05:46,280 --> 02:05:48,680
Speaker 2: was so recent, This was like maybe a couple of

2197
02:05:48,720 --> 02:05:51,680
Speaker 2: months ago. Well, I realized that I shouldn't have said

2198
02:05:51,680 --> 02:05:53,680
Speaker 2: that years ago. But then a couple of months ago,

2199
02:05:54,560 --> 02:05:56,720
Speaker 2: my wife said to me, she goes, you're my calm,

2200
02:05:56,760 --> 02:05:59,280
Speaker 2: like you can't my nervous system, and I was like,

2201
02:05:59,320 --> 02:06:01,160
Speaker 2: you're my joy. You bring joy to every part of

2202
02:06:01,200 --> 02:06:04,120
Speaker 2: my life. And it was like that exchange was so

2203
02:06:04,320 --> 02:06:08,280
Speaker 2: needed and so powerful after having for so long feeling like,

2204
02:06:08,280 --> 02:06:09,920
Speaker 2: oh I have everything I need anyway, and I do.

2205
02:06:10,040 --> 02:06:13,560
Speaker 2: I genuinely believe that. But it's what you said, is

2206
02:06:13,560 --> 02:06:15,560
Speaker 2: that we're interdependent for a reason.

2207
02:06:15,760 --> 02:06:17,040
Speaker 1: Yes, we couldn't regulate.

2208
02:06:17,120 --> 02:06:20,000
Speaker 2: My wife mat had so much. It's like saying, I

2209
02:06:20,080 --> 02:06:23,560
Speaker 2: don't need salt added on to this meal, and like

2210
02:06:23,600 --> 02:06:24,920
Speaker 2: the meal is great, and it's like I don't need

2211
02:06:24,920 --> 02:06:26,480
Speaker 2: any more salt, and it's like, well, now if you

2212
02:06:26,480 --> 02:06:29,520
Speaker 2: had a little bit, so make a bit better, and

2213
02:06:29,560 --> 02:06:31,720
Speaker 2: it's like and we kind of live in that life

2214
02:06:31,760 --> 02:06:33,400
Speaker 2: of like I don't want to add anything to this,

2215
02:06:33,480 --> 02:06:37,240
Speaker 2: and it's it's almost a defense mechanism because we're so

2216
02:06:37,280 --> 02:06:41,680
Speaker 2: scared that there may not be someone to add. And

2217
02:06:41,720 --> 02:06:44,879
Speaker 2: I've lived there, so I that, Yeah, that resonated very strongly.

2218
02:06:44,920 --> 02:06:47,520
Speaker 1: I think that was one of the other gifts actually

2219
02:06:47,680 --> 02:06:50,240
Speaker 1: of getting to a point where because I used to

2220
02:06:50,280 --> 02:06:52,840
Speaker 1: be this like I'm so tough and in dependent and

2221
02:06:52,880 --> 02:06:56,120
Speaker 1: I can do anything person and being at the point

2222
02:06:56,160 --> 02:07:00,040
Speaker 1: where I was like, ah shit, I actually think I

2223
02:07:00,040 --> 02:07:04,480
Speaker 1: I'm like not okay and my body forcing me to

2224
02:07:04,560 --> 02:07:08,920
Speaker 1: ask other people for help was the biggest gift of

2225
02:07:08,920 --> 02:07:11,240
Speaker 1: my life because it brought me so much closer to

2226
02:07:11,280 --> 02:07:15,040
Speaker 1: other people and I learned that not only is it

2227
02:07:15,120 --> 02:07:19,920
Speaker 1: not a burden, it's genuinely, yeah, a privilege and a

2228
02:07:19,960 --> 02:07:24,480
Speaker 1: gift sometimes to have someone ask you that ask you

2229
02:07:24,520 --> 02:07:27,520
Speaker 1: that question or like be honest about the ways that

2230
02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:32,080
Speaker 1: they need you. And it's crazy how long it takes

2231
02:07:32,400 --> 02:07:33,080
Speaker 1: these things.

2232
02:07:33,960 --> 02:07:37,760
Speaker 2: Absolutely, You've done so much in a work and self work,

2233
02:07:37,760 --> 02:07:40,560
Speaker 2: and I'm wondering, what's what's the work you've been avoiding.

2234
02:07:41,080 --> 02:07:42,400
Speaker 2: What's the work you've been putting off?

2235
02:07:43,240 --> 02:07:50,040
Speaker 1: Wow? I think it's probably something around now tying it

2236
02:07:50,080 --> 02:07:54,040
Speaker 1: all together. I think in some ways, me being here

2237
02:07:54,160 --> 02:07:59,800
Speaker 1: today as me trying to do the piece I've been

2238
02:07:59,840 --> 02:08:05,080
Speaker 1: a avoiding maybe, which is like, Okay, you know you

2239
02:08:05,120 --> 02:08:09,200
Speaker 1: want to show up as a full, integrated whole self

2240
02:08:10,000 --> 02:08:15,920
Speaker 1: and not compartmentalize and split and fragment yourself in a

2241
02:08:15,960 --> 02:08:21,760
Speaker 1: way that keeps you safe. And that compartmentalization did keep

2242
02:08:21,960 --> 02:08:24,320
Speaker 1: me safe and felt very necessary for a long time,

2243
02:08:24,360 --> 02:08:27,960
Speaker 1: because I was trying to keep some walls up where

2244
02:08:27,960 --> 02:08:30,920
Speaker 1: I could nurture myself and learn and grow and then

2245
02:08:31,000 --> 02:08:35,240
Speaker 1: be ready to share those pieces. But I think it's

2246
02:08:35,320 --> 02:08:42,280
Speaker 1: probably figuring out how to avoid the pieces that I

2247
02:08:42,440 --> 02:08:47,040
Speaker 1: know aren't good for me and that are genuinely just toxic.

2248
02:08:48,080 --> 02:08:49,440
Speaker 2: But to.

2249
02:08:51,240 --> 02:08:54,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have the courage to show up now in

2250
02:08:55,000 --> 02:09:01,160
Speaker 1: whatever form that is and trust again, whether that's a

2251
02:09:01,200 --> 02:09:08,960
Speaker 1: person or it's making something, or it's kind of okay,

2252
02:09:09,600 --> 02:09:14,600
Speaker 1: have you learned enough that you can integrate and share

2253
02:09:15,040 --> 02:09:18,760
Speaker 1: now that you've done this in a work on your own?

2254
02:09:19,280 --> 02:09:23,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that feels a resonate, ok. Yeah, Yeah, it's hard,

2255
02:09:23,440 --> 02:09:27,920
Speaker 2: it's hard. It's hard to verbalize. It's almost like it

2256
02:09:27,960 --> 02:09:30,680
Speaker 2: is that you've been private for so long. Yeah, and

2257
02:09:30,720 --> 02:09:35,200
Speaker 2: you've been working in private. An't your fascinations, your curiosities,

2258
02:09:35,200 --> 02:09:38,280
Speaker 2: your friends, you're inner work, And then to actually come

2259
02:09:38,320 --> 02:09:41,680
Speaker 2: out and talk about what that period has been like

2260
02:09:41,800 --> 02:09:45,240
Speaker 2: publicly is something you can keep pushing off.

2261
02:09:45,280 --> 02:09:49,360
Speaker 1: And and maybe the how that ties into partnership is

2262
02:09:49,360 --> 02:09:54,640
Speaker 1: that I've realized actually that some of the people I've

2263
02:09:54,720 --> 02:10:01,160
Speaker 1: been attracting on the dating front thing, they're dating some

2264
02:10:01,640 --> 02:10:05,280
Speaker 1: previous version of me who I'm who still exists in

2265
02:10:05,320 --> 02:10:09,960
Speaker 1: some ways, but who isn't actually who I am now.

2266
02:10:10,720 --> 02:10:14,120
Speaker 1: And I realized I was like, oh, I'm still getting

2267
02:10:14,160 --> 02:10:20,120
Speaker 1: sent people who like are seeing someone who was part

2268
02:10:20,160 --> 02:10:24,720
Speaker 1: of the picture, but not the whole picture. And it's

2269
02:10:24,760 --> 02:10:31,160
Speaker 1: starting to feel uncomfortable. Two not feel like I'm telling

2270
02:10:31,200 --> 02:10:33,080
Speaker 1: this part of the story, if that makes sense.

2271
02:10:34,040 --> 02:10:36,160
Speaker 2: It's even hard for you to be like, well, these

2272
02:10:36,200 --> 02:10:37,960
Speaker 2: are the parts that are still there, and these are

2273
02:10:39,440 --> 02:10:43,839
Speaker 2: it's not a didactic process, No, it's not an equation

2274
02:10:44,000 --> 02:10:45,520
Speaker 2: where you can go, well, these are the parts that

2275
02:10:45,520 --> 02:10:47,560
Speaker 2: I've kept. These are the parts that are not like

2276
02:10:47,600 --> 02:10:49,400
Speaker 2: it doesn't work, Like, no, it.

2277
02:10:49,360 --> 02:10:52,520
Speaker 1: Doesn't work like that. It doesn't work like that, but

2278
02:10:53,600 --> 02:10:56,280
Speaker 1: I'm still getting requests that want to drag me a

2279
02:10:56,280 --> 02:10:59,800
Speaker 1: little bit more into a version of myself who was

2280
02:11:00,080 --> 02:11:03,120
Speaker 1: great and she was doing great stuff. But I think

2281
02:11:03,480 --> 02:11:07,520
Speaker 1: there's a part of me now that really feels like

2282
02:11:08,160 --> 02:11:10,240
Speaker 1: being able to speak to you one on one in

2283
02:11:10,280 --> 02:11:12,640
Speaker 1: this kind of setting, as opposed to what I used

2284
02:11:12,640 --> 02:11:15,600
Speaker 1: to do, which would be an enormous audience and there'd

2285
02:11:15,600 --> 02:11:18,520
Speaker 1: be like three hundred people there, and of course there's

2286
02:11:18,720 --> 02:11:20,800
Speaker 1: intimacy you can find in a room like that, but

2287
02:11:20,920 --> 02:11:26,400
Speaker 1: like the truth is, it's really difficult to find the

2288
02:11:26,480 --> 02:11:28,560
Speaker 1: kind of depth and the kind of connections that I

2289
02:11:28,680 --> 02:11:31,960
Speaker 1: know are the ones that nourish me personally, and that's

2290
02:11:32,680 --> 02:11:35,800
Speaker 1: different for everyone, but that just aren't allowing me to

2291
02:11:35,840 --> 02:11:37,840
Speaker 1: have the thing that I know is the real thing

2292
02:11:37,880 --> 02:11:40,960
Speaker 1: that I'm actually seeking and what I used to go

2293
02:11:41,000 --> 02:11:43,240
Speaker 1: into lots of other environments seeking and thinking i'd be

2294
02:11:43,280 --> 02:11:45,440
Speaker 1: able to get and keep and just not not being

2295
02:11:45,480 --> 02:11:47,600
Speaker 1: able to find.

2296
02:11:47,800 --> 02:11:49,720
Speaker 2: And it's something I wanted to ask you about that's

2297
02:11:51,600 --> 02:11:55,440
Speaker 2: difficult and challenging because it's something you spoke about earlier

2298
02:11:55,480 --> 02:11:57,040
Speaker 2: as to being such a big part of your life,

2299
02:11:57,040 --> 02:12:02,960
Speaker 2: an important part of your life. But recently there's been

2300
02:12:04,240 --> 02:12:07,840
Speaker 2: so many conversations and comments directly from JK. Rowling, whether

2301
02:12:07,880 --> 02:12:12,280
Speaker 2: it's her saying she'd never forgive you for your views,

2302
02:12:13,120 --> 02:12:15,400
Speaker 2: or the fact that when she was asked what ruins

2303
02:12:15,440 --> 02:12:19,200
Speaker 2: the movies for her, she named yourself and some of

2304
02:12:19,200 --> 02:12:22,640
Speaker 2: your co stars. And I imagine that's an extremely difficult

2305
02:12:22,640 --> 02:12:24,720
Speaker 2: thing when you've been a part of someone's world, when

2306
02:12:24,760 --> 02:12:28,480
Speaker 2: you've felt connected to their work, and then for it

2307
02:12:28,520 --> 02:12:32,520
Speaker 2: now to kind of be a four one eighty and

2308
02:12:32,600 --> 02:12:34,400
Speaker 2: for someone to publicly say these things that can be

2309
02:12:34,480 --> 02:12:38,880
Speaker 2: quite quite extremely hurtful. Actually, how do you think about that?

2310
02:12:40,360 --> 02:12:46,560
Speaker 1: I really don't believe that by having had that experience

2311
02:12:46,680 --> 02:12:52,480
Speaker 1: and holding the love and support and views that I

2312
02:12:52,640 --> 02:13:01,440
Speaker 1: have mean that I can't and don't treasure and the

2313
02:13:01,560 --> 02:13:08,720
Speaker 1: person that I that I had personal experiences with, I

2314
02:13:08,800 --> 02:13:15,000
Speaker 1: will never believe that one negates the other, and that

2315
02:13:15,120 --> 02:13:20,400
Speaker 1: my experience of that person I don't get to keep

2316
02:13:20,440 --> 02:13:24,560
Speaker 1: and cherish to come back to our earlier thing. Like,

2317
02:13:24,600 --> 02:13:27,720
Speaker 1: I just don't think these things are either or. I

2318
02:13:27,760 --> 02:13:35,840
Speaker 1: think it's my deepest wish that I hope people who

2319
02:13:35,880 --> 02:13:37,520
Speaker 1: don't agree with my opinion will love me, and I

2320
02:13:37,520 --> 02:13:40,200
Speaker 1: hope I can keep loving people who I don't necessarily

2321
02:13:40,200 --> 02:13:43,880
Speaker 1: share the same opinion with, and I think that's a

2322
02:13:44,080 --> 02:13:49,760
Speaker 1: very very important way for me that I need to

2323
02:13:49,800 --> 02:13:54,520
Speaker 1: be able to move through life. I just really, I

2324
02:13:54,560 --> 02:13:59,160
Speaker 1: guess I to circle back around. I really do believe

2325
02:13:59,360 --> 02:14:06,320
Speaker 1: in having conversations and that those are really important, and

2326
02:14:06,600 --> 02:14:13,600
Speaker 1: that I don't know. I guess where I've landed is

2327
02:14:15,840 --> 02:14:18,600
Speaker 1: it's not so much what we say or what we believe,

2328
02:14:20,320 --> 02:14:24,280
Speaker 1: but very often how we say it that's really important,

2329
02:14:24,280 --> 02:14:26,200
Speaker 1: and that's really frustrating and not what you want to

2330
02:14:26,200 --> 02:14:31,040
Speaker 1: hear when you're really angry and upset with someone. But

2331
02:14:32,360 --> 02:14:36,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just see this world right now

2332
02:14:36,840 --> 02:14:41,800
Speaker 1: where we seem to be giving permission for this kind

2333
02:14:41,840 --> 02:14:47,200
Speaker 1: of like throwing out of people, or that people are disposable,

2334
02:14:47,920 --> 02:14:52,800
Speaker 1: and I just think that's I will always think that's wrong.

2335
02:14:53,080 --> 02:14:58,800
Speaker 1: I always I just believe that no one is, no

2336
02:14:59,240 --> 02:15:05,640
Speaker 1: one's disposable, and everyone, as far as possible, whatever the

2337
02:15:05,680 --> 02:15:11,000
Speaker 1: conversation is, should and can be treated with at the

2338
02:15:11,120 --> 02:15:13,240
Speaker 1: very least dignity and respect.

2339
02:15:15,440 --> 02:15:19,400
Speaker 2: Thank you for challenging us, and yeah, it takes a lot.

2340
02:15:20,320 --> 02:15:21,840
Speaker 2: I think that's what we're all being challenged to do

2341
02:15:21,920 --> 02:15:24,080
Speaker 2: is try and hold two truths at once. And yes,

2342
02:15:24,200 --> 02:15:27,680
Speaker 2: those two truths don't have to be complimentary, but they

2343
02:15:28,560 --> 02:15:30,280
Speaker 2: can stand honor.

2344
02:15:31,000 --> 02:15:33,360
Speaker 1: I think the thing I'm most upset about is that

2345
02:15:34,200 --> 02:15:36,960
Speaker 1: a conversation was never made possible.

2346
02:15:38,080 --> 02:15:41,000
Speaker 2: You remain open for that dialogue.

2347
02:15:40,800 --> 02:15:44,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I always will. I believe in that. I

2348
02:15:44,800 --> 02:15:52,520
Speaker 1: believe in that completely. I believe in that completely. I

2349
02:15:52,600 --> 02:15:57,320
Speaker 1: just don't. Yeah, I just don't want to say anything

2350
02:15:57,360 --> 02:16:01,000
Speaker 1: that continues to weaponize a really like toxic debate and conversation,

2351
02:16:01,760 --> 02:16:07,600
Speaker 1: which is maybe why I don't well, it is why

2352
02:16:08,000 --> 02:16:11,480
Speaker 1: I don't comment or like continue to comment, not because

2353
02:16:11,480 --> 02:16:14,600
Speaker 1: I don't care about her or about the issue, but

2354
02:16:14,640 --> 02:16:17,640
Speaker 1: because I just the way that the conversation is being

2355
02:16:17,680 --> 02:16:23,680
Speaker 1: had it feels really painful to me. And so that's

2356
02:16:23,760 --> 02:16:26,120
Speaker 1: why that's why that decision.

2357
02:16:26,600 --> 02:16:32,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really appreciate that mindset and deeply, deeply feel

2358
02:16:32,680 --> 02:16:37,360
Speaker 2: like if people were challenged to go there themselves, Like

2359
02:16:37,440 --> 02:16:39,400
Speaker 2: it takes a lot to think that way and feel

2360
02:16:39,400 --> 02:16:42,959
Speaker 2: that way. Yeah, but it's what it's what healing really

2361
02:16:43,000 --> 02:16:46,200
Speaker 2: requires across you know, around the world. And I can't

2362
02:16:46,240 --> 02:16:48,560
Speaker 2: imagine how many young people who look up to you

2363
02:16:48,600 --> 02:16:50,000
Speaker 2: and people who look up to you will feel the

2364
02:16:50,000 --> 02:16:53,560
Speaker 2: same way to recognize that that's how we engage, that's

2365
02:16:53,600 --> 02:16:56,240
Speaker 2: what we look for. We it's not that we're trying

2366
02:16:56,280 --> 02:17:00,600
Speaker 2: to make everything pretty and perfect, it's that no engage

2367
02:17:00,600 --> 02:17:02,000
Speaker 2: in a conversation.

2368
02:17:02,240 --> 02:17:07,000
Speaker 1: Yes, her kindness and words of encouragement and that steadfastness,

2369
02:17:08,120 --> 02:17:14,480
Speaker 1: that and also honestly, just as a young woman, for

2370
02:17:14,560 --> 02:17:19,160
Speaker 1: her to have written that character created that world, given

2371
02:17:19,200 --> 02:17:22,720
Speaker 1: me an opportunity which, to be honest, barely exists in

2372
02:17:22,760 --> 02:17:30,200
Speaker 1: the history of English literature. You know, how can I

2373
02:17:30,600 --> 02:17:35,840
Speaker 1: There's just no world in which I could ever cancel

2374
02:17:35,959 --> 02:17:41,880
Speaker 1: her out or cancel that out. For anything, it has

2375
02:17:41,959 --> 02:17:44,959
Speaker 1: to remain true. It is true. And this is where

2376
02:17:45,280 --> 02:17:47,800
Speaker 1: this like holding of these I just don't know what

2377
02:17:47,840 --> 02:17:52,359
Speaker 1: else to do other than hold these two seemingly incompatible

2378
02:17:52,440 --> 02:17:57,400
Speaker 1: things together at the same time and just hope maybe

2379
02:17:57,440 --> 02:18:00,400
Speaker 1: they will one day resolve or co join themselves, and

2380
02:18:00,440 --> 02:18:03,320
Speaker 1: maybe accept that they never will, but that they can

2381
02:18:03,440 --> 02:18:08,879
Speaker 1: both still be true. And I can love her, I

2382
02:18:08,879 --> 02:18:11,640
Speaker 1: can know she loved me. I could be grateful to her.

2383
02:18:12,360 --> 02:18:14,120
Speaker 1: I can know the things that she's said are true,

2384
02:18:15,040 --> 02:18:20,600
Speaker 1: and that can be this whole other thing. And my

2385
02:18:20,840 --> 02:18:25,160
Speaker 1: job feels like to just hold just to hold all

2386
02:18:25,200 --> 02:18:31,400
Speaker 1: of it. But the bigger thing is just what she's

2387
02:18:31,640 --> 02:18:33,360
Speaker 1: done will never be taken away from me.

2388
02:18:34,879 --> 02:18:40,080
Speaker 2: Thanks for saying such a powerful example. That beautiful left.

2389
02:18:40,080 --> 02:18:43,720
Speaker 2: Scott Fitzgerald quote that the sign of a first rate

2390
02:18:43,800 --> 02:18:47,160
Speaker 2: intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas at

2391
02:18:47,160 --> 02:18:50,360
Speaker 2: the same time and still retain the ability to function.

2392
02:18:51,000 --> 02:18:53,000
Speaker 2: So it goes on to say one should therefore be

2393
02:18:53,040 --> 02:18:56,440
Speaker 2: able to see that the world is hopeless, but still

2394
02:18:56,480 --> 02:19:00,640
Speaker 2: be determined to make it otherwise. And it's like, that's.

2395
02:19:01,520 --> 02:19:04,760
Speaker 1: That's Scott Fitzgerald said that. Wow, he ran deeper than

2396
02:19:04,800 --> 02:19:09,920
Speaker 1: I knew. Wow, that's incredible.

2397
02:19:10,280 --> 02:19:11,280
Speaker 2: It's one of my fast Wow.

2398
02:19:11,360 --> 02:19:13,879
Speaker 1: Wells on you for remembering that second part. Wow, he's

2399
02:19:13,879 --> 02:19:16,680
Speaker 1: made me like Fitzgerald. I mean, I liked him, don't like.

2400
02:19:18,240 --> 02:19:20,560
Speaker 2: To me. It's my It's one of my favorites. That's

2401
02:19:20,800 --> 02:19:22,520
Speaker 2: so good, so good.

2402
02:19:22,720 --> 02:19:23,520
Speaker 1: That's so good.

2403
02:19:24,040 --> 02:19:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Emma. For someone who has tried to stay out

2404
02:19:27,800 --> 02:19:32,440
Speaker 2: of the public eye, you've still been vocal about causes.

2405
02:19:32,480 --> 02:19:36,400
Speaker 2: You believe in things that you stand for, yes, and

2406
02:19:37,080 --> 02:19:41,600
Speaker 2: that always seems to get attention and reaction. And so

2407
02:19:42,040 --> 02:19:48,320
Speaker 2: when you shared online your solidarity for Palestine, the former

2408
02:19:48,480 --> 02:19:53,040
Speaker 2: Israeli you an ambassador. Danny Dunnan called you an anti

2409
02:19:53,080 --> 02:19:57,640
Speaker 2: Semite and and his tweet said ten points from Gryffindor

2410
02:19:57,959 --> 02:20:02,600
Speaker 2: for being an anti Semite. What goes through your mind

2411
02:20:02,720 --> 02:20:06,000
Speaker 2: when you see that this happened?

2412
02:20:07,040 --> 02:20:09,360
Speaker 1: This happened a few years ago. Now. I think what

2413
02:20:09,480 --> 02:20:12,920
Speaker 1: concerned me at the time was the way that that

2414
02:20:13,080 --> 02:20:19,520
Speaker 1: label was being used. And I think even now I

2415
02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:25,360
Speaker 1: see that playing out where we aren't people don't feel

2416
02:20:25,400 --> 02:20:33,000
Speaker 1: like they can talk about what's happening safely. This duality

2417
02:20:33,080 --> 02:20:37,520
Speaker 1: created where we don't seem able to care about the

2418
02:20:37,640 --> 02:20:44,640
Speaker 1: victims of terrorism and care about the genocide that's happening

2419
02:20:44,840 --> 02:20:49,119
Speaker 1: in Palestine at the same time, and both things have

2420
02:20:49,360 --> 02:20:52,600
Speaker 1: to be allowed to be true. You have to be

2421
02:20:52,640 --> 02:20:57,800
Speaker 1: allowed to care about fifty thousand civilians dying, seventeen thousand

2422
02:20:57,800 --> 02:21:05,440
Speaker 1: of which are children, and care deeply about the victims

2423
02:21:05,640 --> 02:21:07,760
Speaker 1: of this awful terrorist attack.

2424
02:21:08,160 --> 02:21:12,000
Speaker 2: I appreciate you sharing that. And Yeah, it seems like

2425
02:21:12,040 --> 02:21:15,920
Speaker 2: that belief system you have in yes and in this

2426
02:21:16,120 --> 02:21:19,640
Speaker 2: and it kind of runs through so many yeah areas

2427
02:21:19,680 --> 02:21:22,640
Speaker 2: of your life, Yeah, personal and beyond.

2428
02:21:23,400 --> 02:21:28,080
Speaker 1: Yes. I think that's I think that's true. I think

2429
02:21:28,080 --> 02:21:28,640
Speaker 1: that's true.

2430
02:21:29,200 --> 02:21:32,119
Speaker 2: I hope that you've felt you've been able to share

2431
02:21:32,120 --> 02:21:34,800
Speaker 2: the parts of yourself and the version of yourself that

2432
02:21:34,840 --> 02:21:38,920
Speaker 2: you wanted to and intended to. I hope.

2433
02:21:38,920 --> 02:21:42,600
Speaker 1: So I feel very hot, and I feel very hot,

2434
02:21:43,080 --> 02:21:46,720
Speaker 1: and I feel a little bit like is this room

2435
02:21:46,760 --> 02:21:49,800
Speaker 1: even real? Like are we Is this like a god

2436
02:21:49,800 --> 02:21:52,840
Speaker 1: our play? Well, like in some sort of existential room

2437
02:21:52,879 --> 02:21:57,080
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist. I feel a little bit like that.

2438
02:21:57,480 --> 02:21:59,640
Speaker 1: But as long as this was real and these are

2439
02:21:59,760 --> 02:22:03,400
Speaker 1: these falls are actually here, then yes, I do feel

2440
02:22:03,400 --> 02:22:08,240
Speaker 1: that way, and I or like I've done everything I

2441
02:22:08,280 --> 02:22:11,680
Speaker 1: can in a context that's still I can still see

2442
02:22:11,720 --> 02:22:15,080
Speaker 1: cameras and lights, and I know there's a person behind me.

2443
02:22:15,200 --> 02:22:19,160
Speaker 1: But I feel, to the extent to which I can

2444
02:22:19,280 --> 02:22:24,120
Speaker 1: humanly do, that I've shown up for myself and for

2445
02:22:25,000 --> 02:22:27,960
Speaker 1: you in a way, and the invitation that this podcast

2446
02:22:28,240 --> 02:22:29,720
Speaker 1: is and the work that you do in the world,

2447
02:22:30,160 --> 02:22:36,440
Speaker 1: I've answered that invitation. So I feel I feel good

2448
02:22:36,440 --> 02:22:38,560
Speaker 1: about that, and I've.

2449
02:22:38,400 --> 02:22:39,640
Speaker 2: Got I know it's a bit hot, but I've got

2450
02:22:39,680 --> 02:22:45,520
Speaker 2: a couple of questions. Episode. Yes, these are your final five.

2451
02:22:46,200 --> 02:22:48,760
Speaker 2: They have to be answering one word to one sentence maximum.

2452
02:22:48,800 --> 02:22:51,840
Speaker 2: But okay, I will probably ignore that rule, as I

2453
02:22:51,879 --> 02:22:56,680
Speaker 2: always do amazing. So question number one, okay, is we

2454
02:22:56,720 --> 02:22:58,440
Speaker 2: ask these to everyone who's ever been on the show,

2455
02:22:58,440 --> 02:23:00,840
Speaker 2: what is the best advice you've ever heard or received.

2456
02:23:02,440 --> 02:23:05,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to cheat slightly if you'll allow it.

2457
02:23:06,240 --> 02:23:06,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2458
02:23:07,200 --> 02:23:11,320
Speaker 1: I read Emergen Strategy by Adrian Marie Brown, was given

2459
02:23:11,320 --> 02:23:13,879
Speaker 1: to me as a gift by my friend A Marie

2460
02:23:13,879 --> 02:23:19,680
Speaker 1: for my thirtieth birthday. And I think that being a good,

2461
02:23:19,920 --> 02:23:25,120
Speaker 1: pious Protestant English girl, I really believed that if I

2462
02:23:25,240 --> 02:23:29,840
Speaker 1: worked hard enough, and if I was kind of saintly enough,

2463
02:23:29,920 --> 02:23:33,280
Speaker 1: that someone would see my good deeds and all of

2464
02:23:33,320 --> 02:23:36,640
Speaker 1: my hard work and like give me the sticker, you know,

2465
02:23:36,720 --> 02:23:41,240
Speaker 1: give me their like give me the star, and so

2466
02:23:41,240 --> 02:23:46,600
Speaker 1: so I kind of martyrdom was part of my sort

2467
02:23:46,640 --> 02:23:51,640
Speaker 1: of I understood was important in my and I think

2468
02:23:51,680 --> 02:23:59,000
Speaker 1: reading her book and reading about pleasure activism, which is

2469
02:23:59,040 --> 02:24:03,360
Speaker 1: sort of the idea that, like anything that you need

2470
02:24:03,480 --> 02:24:09,320
Speaker 1: to that you want to sustain, EG. Justice, EG. You

2471
02:24:09,440 --> 02:24:11,400
Speaker 1: need it to be easy and you need it to

2472
02:24:11,440 --> 02:24:13,600
Speaker 1: be pleasurable in a way, because that's what's going to

2473
02:24:13,640 --> 02:24:15,760
Speaker 1: mean that you'll be able to do it. For a

2474
02:24:15,800 --> 02:24:21,120
Speaker 1: long time. Part of my burnout was that I wasn't

2475
02:24:22,000 --> 02:24:27,280
Speaker 1: prioritizing pleasure and joy as kind of like underpinning for

2476
02:24:27,360 --> 02:24:32,200
Speaker 1: even some of the harder, more somber, cerebral things that

2477
02:24:32,280 --> 02:24:38,840
Speaker 1: I was doing. And I think that changed my life.

2478
02:24:39,800 --> 02:24:42,960
Speaker 1: And I think we also have a model, particularly within

2479
02:24:44,000 --> 02:24:50,080
Speaker 1: activism and and lots of spaces that like this kind

2480
02:24:50,160 --> 02:24:55,240
Speaker 1: of sole individual, charismatic leader. And I like you, you know,

2481
02:24:56,440 --> 02:25:00,039
Speaker 1: my hero is always Martin, Luther King and Gandhi, and

2482
02:25:00,720 --> 02:25:03,400
Speaker 1: you just saw this sort of solitary person that was

2483
02:25:03,480 --> 02:25:06,080
Speaker 1: doing that. And I think if I could go back

2484
02:25:06,120 --> 02:25:10,120
Speaker 1: and do anything differently, it would be that when I

2485
02:25:10,160 --> 02:25:13,360
Speaker 1: embarked on some of the public activism that I did,

2486
02:25:14,080 --> 02:25:15,959
Speaker 1: I wouldn't go in the way I did. I would

2487
02:25:16,000 --> 02:25:20,119
Speaker 1: go in with what I have now, which is not

2488
02:25:20,200 --> 02:25:23,440
Speaker 1: just like an activist community, Like I have friends who

2489
02:25:23,440 --> 02:25:25,440
Speaker 1: can give me feedback and who I can talk to

2490
02:25:25,680 --> 02:25:28,080
Speaker 1: and who I feel that I'm not doing the work

2491
02:25:28,720 --> 02:25:33,640
Speaker 1: alone solo. However heroic that might look. Yeah, I guess

2492
02:25:34,160 --> 02:25:37,640
Speaker 1: heroicism and martyrdom the way the way that it was looked,

2493
02:25:38,520 --> 02:25:42,240
Speaker 1: maybe I just don't believe that's how we'll get the

2494
02:25:42,320 --> 02:25:45,800
Speaker 1: job done anymore. I think anything good will get done.

2495
02:25:46,400 --> 02:25:49,039
Speaker 1: So I think that book and I think that idea

2496
02:25:49,879 --> 02:25:52,160
Speaker 1: that revolutionized my approach.

2497
02:25:52,440 --> 02:25:55,480
Speaker 2: I love that. Yes, it's beautiful. I want to read

2498
02:25:55,480 --> 02:25:55,959
Speaker 2: that book now.

2499
02:25:58,040 --> 02:25:58,680
Speaker 1: Around the podcast.

2500
02:25:59,040 --> 02:26:02,959
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Question number two, what is the worst advice

2501
02:26:03,000 --> 02:26:06,920
Speaker 2: you've ever heard or received? Oh? So much?

2502
02:26:08,080 --> 02:26:12,640
Speaker 1: How long have you got? God? Mostly just like I

2503
02:26:12,640 --> 02:26:15,520
Speaker 1: think a lot of stuff around toughen up, bottle it up,

2504
02:26:17,520 --> 02:26:20,720
Speaker 1: deal with that later, you know, just like subtle versions

2505
02:26:20,760 --> 02:26:23,920
Speaker 1: of like well, maybe tell the truth, but just not

2506
02:26:24,080 --> 02:26:27,440
Speaker 1: all of it, Just like maybe just like tell like

2507
02:26:27,520 --> 02:26:29,520
Speaker 1: a little bit of it, but not like the whole thing,

2508
02:26:29,879 --> 02:26:32,480
Speaker 1: you know, because like the truth is. The problem with

2509
02:26:32,560 --> 02:26:35,560
Speaker 1: like telling three quarters of the truth is that then

2510
02:26:35,600 --> 02:26:39,160
Speaker 1: you're sort of in this like constant pealing and unpeeling

2511
02:26:39,200 --> 02:26:42,000
Speaker 1: of yourself where you sort of like you're sort of

2512
02:26:42,040 --> 02:26:44,480
Speaker 1: trying to do it, but you're not quite doing it.

2513
02:26:44,600 --> 02:26:47,720
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I think a lot of advice

2514
02:26:47,760 --> 02:26:50,640
Speaker 1: around that. Also, anyone that tells you not to do

2515
02:26:50,720 --> 02:26:55,320
Speaker 1: what you love terrible advice. Doing what you love will

2516
02:26:55,400 --> 02:26:56,959
Speaker 1: lead you where you need to go, even if you

2517
02:26:57,000 --> 02:26:58,160
Speaker 1: can't see it at the time.

2518
02:27:05,040 --> 02:27:14,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, terrible terrible beauty tips advice I've given a wrap,

2519
02:27:14,840 --> 02:27:18,240
Speaker 4: like I don't know, just like, oh God, all again,

2520
02:27:18,320 --> 02:27:21,000
Speaker 4: Like back to our previous conversation, all the ridiculous things

2521
02:27:21,040 --> 02:27:23,600
Speaker 4: that you are encouraged to try and do as a.

2522
02:27:23,560 --> 02:27:28,320
Speaker 1: Woman, like fake tan, and I mean it's hilarious. I

2523
02:27:28,480 --> 02:27:32,760
Speaker 1: actually right now it might be like well covered up,

2524
02:27:32,800 --> 02:27:36,400
Speaker 1: but I accidentally have a bottle of fake tan in

2525
02:27:36,400 --> 02:27:39,039
Speaker 1: my bathroom and in my jet lag state. Last night,

2526
02:27:39,120 --> 02:27:41,200
Speaker 1: I thought I was putting moisturizer on, but now I

2527
02:27:41,240 --> 02:27:46,200
Speaker 1: have like these like horrific fake tan mark on my

2528
02:27:46,360 --> 02:27:49,360
Speaker 1: legs and feet. I guess I'm just thinking about just like,

2529
02:27:49,680 --> 02:27:52,800
Speaker 1: oh my god. And recently I was like, okay, I

2530
02:27:52,879 --> 02:27:55,959
Speaker 1: want to get my teeth whitened, and I looked like

2531
02:27:56,080 --> 02:27:58,560
Speaker 1: Ross from Friends when he'd had that awful fake tanning

2532
02:27:58,560 --> 02:28:00,800
Speaker 1: accident because they were just you too white. And then

2533
02:28:00,800 --> 02:28:03,160
Speaker 1: I had just spent go back for two other visits

2534
02:28:03,160 --> 02:28:05,320
Speaker 1: to get the dentist to put my teeth back to

2535
02:28:05,520 --> 02:28:08,000
Speaker 1: my normal teeth. So I guess I was just laughing

2536
02:28:08,120 --> 02:28:11,160
Speaker 1: thinking about like worst advice is just like don't ever

2537
02:28:11,320 --> 02:28:16,600
Speaker 1: listen to beauty technicians or anyone advising you to do

2538
02:28:16,640 --> 02:28:20,600
Speaker 1: anything weird to your body, face appearance. Just just don't

2539
02:28:20,840 --> 02:28:22,840
Speaker 1: don't listen, don't don't take the bait.

2540
02:28:23,000 --> 02:28:29,120
Speaker 2: Just don't do it so good. Question number three, how

2541
02:28:29,120 --> 02:28:32,120
Speaker 2: are you? How are you now going to choose work

2542
02:28:32,240 --> 02:28:34,680
Speaker 2: projects or activism differently?

2543
02:28:35,600 --> 02:28:39,200
Speaker 1: Does the person that's asking me to do something with them?

2544
02:28:39,879 --> 02:28:42,640
Speaker 1: Can they confidently look at me and say that they

2545
02:28:42,680 --> 02:28:45,800
Speaker 1: care about me far more than like what we're producing,

2546
02:28:46,080 --> 02:28:49,960
Speaker 1: and and do I care about them that way. One

2547
02:28:50,000 --> 02:28:53,520
Speaker 1: of my favorite people I worked with Steve Tebowski. I

2548
02:28:53,600 --> 02:29:00,280
Speaker 1: remember him leaving what was a very productive rehearse or

2549
02:29:00,280 --> 02:29:04,280
Speaker 1: script meeting with Logan lermon Azramilla and I and he

2550
02:29:04,440 --> 02:29:05,879
Speaker 1: was like, I need to go and be with my

2551
02:29:05,920 --> 02:29:08,840
Speaker 1: wife now, and we were like, I don't think I've

2552
02:29:08,840 --> 02:29:10,760
Speaker 1: ever heard I mean, at that point, I certainly hadn't

2553
02:29:10,800 --> 02:29:13,280
Speaker 1: ever heard a director in my career say they needed

2554
02:29:13,280 --> 02:29:16,680
Speaker 1: to leave for a personal reason or for a personal relationship.

2555
02:29:17,000 --> 02:29:19,320
Speaker 1: But I worked far harder for Steve than I worked

2556
02:29:19,320 --> 02:29:22,400
Speaker 1: for any other director, because I think I was able

2557
02:29:22,440 --> 02:29:25,360
Speaker 1: to give a far more vulnerable performance in that film,

2558
02:29:25,400 --> 02:29:31,240
Speaker 1: because I felt that he really cared about me beyond

2559
02:29:31,800 --> 02:29:34,680
Speaker 1: the product of the film. And I want to work

2560
02:29:34,720 --> 02:29:38,720
Speaker 1: with people like that who for whom the process is

2561
02:29:38,760 --> 02:29:41,760
Speaker 1: as important as the outcome, and the people that are

2562
02:29:41,800 --> 02:29:45,360
Speaker 1: part of it are more important than whatever the outcome is.

2563
02:29:45,640 --> 02:29:48,200
Speaker 1: I think this is a really difficult thing that I

2564
02:29:48,280 --> 02:29:52,000
Speaker 1: see everywhere in the world right now, is that we

2565
02:29:52,040 --> 02:29:56,480
Speaker 1: treat objects and things like their sacred and we don't

2566
02:29:56,600 --> 02:30:02,119
Speaker 1: treat people like they're the sacred thing. And that's which, Yeah,

2567
02:30:02,400 --> 02:30:05,520
Speaker 1: I think it causes a lot of pain.

2568
02:30:05,879 --> 02:30:07,360
Speaker 2: And there's something that you told me when we were

2569
02:30:07,360 --> 02:30:10,800
Speaker 2: speaking on the phone, was that you've been working with

2570
02:30:10,840 --> 02:30:14,040
Speaker 2: the young people on helping them with some of the

2571
02:30:14,160 --> 02:30:16,680
Speaker 2: challenges that you've faced in your own career, in your

2572
02:30:16,720 --> 02:30:20,760
Speaker 2: own life. Yeah, And I remember being so attached by that,

2573
02:30:20,840 --> 02:30:22,800
Speaker 2: and I wanted to learn more and for you to

2574
02:30:22,840 --> 02:30:26,160
Speaker 2: share it because I, yeah, I just think it's really special.

2575
02:30:26,200 --> 02:30:27,720
Speaker 2: And I was sharing it with's on my team before

2576
02:30:28,160 --> 02:30:30,760
Speaker 2: you arrived, and everyone was quite drawn to it.

2577
02:30:30,840 --> 02:30:36,960
Speaker 1: So as a young person, and you know, as I

2578
02:30:37,160 --> 02:30:40,480
Speaker 1: basically shared, over however long it's been that we've been speaking,

2579
02:30:40,760 --> 02:30:47,160
Speaker 1: I just really needed to be having more conversations with

2580
02:30:47,160 --> 02:30:50,520
Speaker 1: people my own age and people that were older than me.

2581
02:30:50,720 --> 02:30:54,320
Speaker 1: I feel like I tried to navigate so many problems

2582
02:30:55,240 --> 02:30:59,160
Speaker 1: on my own and I just didn't know who to

2583
02:30:59,400 --> 02:31:01,959
Speaker 1: really to and I was speaking to such a narrow

2584
02:31:02,040 --> 02:31:05,560
Speaker 1: group of people about what I was trying to navigate,

2585
02:31:05,640 --> 02:31:10,920
Speaker 1: and I just I think that working with young people

2586
02:31:11,160 --> 02:31:17,800
Speaker 1: and giving them each other and also the space, the reason,

2587
02:31:17,920 --> 02:31:22,200
Speaker 1: the excuses to talk about the things that we don't

2588
02:31:22,640 --> 02:31:27,240
Speaker 1: talk about or create spaces for, has been the most gratifying,

2589
02:31:28,720 --> 02:31:33,160
Speaker 1: the most purposeful and of service I felt in a

2590
02:31:33,200 --> 02:31:38,160
Speaker 1: long time, because it turns out pretty often that a

2591
02:31:38,200 --> 02:31:41,520
Speaker 1: lot of the things that we're struggling with, other people

2592
02:31:41,520 --> 02:31:44,959
Speaker 1: are struggling with as well, And so in a way,

2593
02:31:45,120 --> 02:31:48,480
Speaker 1: going back around and trying to put out into the

2594
02:31:48,480 --> 02:31:50,280
Speaker 1: world a lot of the things that I knew I

2595
02:31:50,360 --> 02:31:53,480
Speaker 1: needed as a young person and didn't get it's been

2596
02:31:53,520 --> 02:31:58,400
Speaker 1: the most the best, most gratifying thing. And I feel

2597
02:31:58,440 --> 02:32:00,400
Speaker 1: really lucky to be in a position and in a

2598
02:32:00,440 --> 02:32:05,040
Speaker 1: place where I can say and no, like like I've

2599
02:32:05,240 --> 02:32:10,080
Speaker 1: kind of done this treacherous journey, and I think that

2600
02:32:11,680 --> 02:32:14,720
Speaker 1: I think I might have some ideas about what might

2601
02:32:14,760 --> 02:32:16,480
Speaker 1: be needed for someone to come out the other side

2602
02:32:16,520 --> 02:32:19,840
Speaker 1: of that safely. So it feels good to be of use.

2603
02:32:21,280 --> 02:32:22,720
Speaker 2: Five A question We asked this to every guest who's

2604
02:32:22,760 --> 02:32:24,880
Speaker 2: ever been on the show. If you could create one

2605
02:32:25,000 --> 02:32:27,520
Speaker 2: law that everyone in the world had to follow, what

2606
02:32:27,560 --> 02:32:28,120
Speaker 2: would it be?

2607
02:32:30,680 --> 02:32:30,920
Speaker 3: Oh?

2608
02:32:30,959 --> 02:32:38,320
Speaker 1: Wow, one law. Okay, there's a couple of contenders. I

2609
02:32:38,400 --> 02:32:41,080
Speaker 1: want to run you the wrong one is going to

2610
02:32:41,160 --> 02:32:46,000
Speaker 1: be okay, great, perfect one would be around the importance

2611
02:32:46,200 --> 02:32:50,320
Speaker 1: of telling the truth, or like speaking your truth, or

2612
02:32:51,400 --> 02:32:55,800
Speaker 1: just because I feel like so much, so much chaos

2613
02:32:55,920 --> 02:32:58,879
Speaker 1: is caused by people not being sure whether or not

2614
02:32:59,000 --> 02:33:02,200
Speaker 1: they should or it's to go idea too or I

2615
02:33:02,280 --> 02:33:05,879
Speaker 1: think that would be a pretty amazing one. Another contender,

2616
02:33:06,080 --> 02:33:08,039
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the obvious one is to treat other

2617
02:33:08,040 --> 02:33:10,840
Speaker 1: people as you would like to be treated. I would

2618
02:33:10,879 --> 02:33:12,959
Speaker 1: obviously solve a lot of problems as well.

2619
02:33:13,400 --> 02:33:14,039
Speaker 2: I like that one.

2620
02:33:14,080 --> 02:33:15,480
Speaker 1: You give the last one?

2621
02:33:15,560 --> 02:33:17,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, the first one? Yeah?

2622
02:33:18,000 --> 02:33:20,760
Speaker 1: The truth? Yeah, I guess it took me a long

2623
02:33:20,920 --> 02:33:26,240
Speaker 1: time and probably probably through doing my yoga teacher training.

2624
02:33:26,520 --> 02:33:29,039
Speaker 1: Is speaking truth with kindness is one of the first

2625
02:33:29,360 --> 02:33:32,600
Speaker 1: Nyama's right, very disappointed. I can't remember what the word

2626
02:33:32,640 --> 02:33:36,200
Speaker 1: is in not sad maybe yeah, speaking the truth with

2627
02:33:36,280 --> 02:33:39,000
Speaker 1: kind like speaking the truth with kindness, that's an amazing

2628
02:33:39,120 --> 02:33:43,840
Speaker 1: There's an amazing quote, which actually is it was given

2629
02:33:43,840 --> 02:33:45,920
Speaker 1: to be recently by a friend, which is like the

2630
02:33:45,959 --> 02:33:52,439
Speaker 1: truth the truth without kindness is brutality, and kindness without

2631
02:33:53,600 --> 02:34:00,039
Speaker 1: truth is manipulation. A truth without kindness is brutality, and

2632
02:34:01,280 --> 02:34:05,280
Speaker 1: kindness without truth is manipulation. And so when I say, like,

2633
02:34:05,360 --> 02:34:07,680
Speaker 1: tell your truth, I don't mean going around like just

2634
02:34:07,720 --> 02:34:13,440
Speaker 1: being awful to everyone. I mean like telling the microscopic

2635
02:34:13,520 --> 02:34:17,120
Speaker 1: truth and like having those being willing to have a

2636
02:34:17,200 --> 02:34:20,480
Speaker 1: tolerance for those conversations. One of my favorite metaphors I

2637
02:34:20,480 --> 02:34:23,320
Speaker 1: actually wrote about this recently for being in a relationship

2638
02:34:23,360 --> 02:34:26,080
Speaker 1: with anyone is like you're in it's in a way,

2639
02:34:26,160 --> 02:34:28,280
Speaker 1: it's it's a dance, it's a fight, Like I think

2640
02:34:28,320 --> 02:34:31,440
Speaker 1: about boxing in the sense of like who is going

2641
02:34:31,480 --> 02:34:33,120
Speaker 1: to go down to the mat with you and like

2642
02:34:33,240 --> 02:34:37,520
Speaker 1: not tap out? Because being honest about what's really going

2643
02:34:37,560 --> 02:34:41,560
Speaker 1: on is uncomfortable and it's risky. As we talked about earlier,

2644
02:34:41,600 --> 02:34:44,480
Speaker 1: you risk every time you tell the truth of maybe

2645
02:34:44,560 --> 02:34:46,680
Speaker 1: losing someone that you love because you don't know how

2646
02:34:46,760 --> 02:34:49,320
Speaker 1: they can respond to whatever your truth is. But I

2647
02:34:49,320 --> 02:34:52,760
Speaker 1: think to live that way creates the intimacy and connection

2648
02:34:52,879 --> 02:34:57,160
Speaker 1: that I think we long for, and also like sets

2649
02:34:57,200 --> 02:35:01,600
Speaker 1: people free in a way you and them. Truth. Yeah,

2650
02:35:01,600 --> 02:35:03,760
Speaker 1: truth with kindness, I think that's I think that's going

2651
02:35:03,840 --> 02:35:07,160
Speaker 1: to have to be my choice. Yeah, by factor of deduction.

2652
02:35:07,440 --> 02:35:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bugle Ghita gives four principles for truth with kindness.

2653
02:35:11,440 --> 02:35:13,760
Speaker 2: The first is what you speak should be truthful.

2654
02:35:13,879 --> 02:35:14,160
Speaker 1: Yes.

2655
02:35:14,520 --> 02:35:18,120
Speaker 2: The second is it should be beneficial to all Oh.

2656
02:35:18,320 --> 02:35:21,640
Speaker 2: The third is it shouldn't agitate the minds of others.

2657
02:35:21,920 --> 02:35:22,680
Speaker 1: Wow.

2658
02:35:23,120 --> 02:35:25,960
Speaker 2: And the fourth is it should be aligned with eternal

2659
02:35:26,000 --> 02:35:27,760
Speaker 2: wisdom and timeless wisdom.

2660
02:35:28,120 --> 02:35:32,920
Speaker 1: That's beautiful and perfect, because yeah, I think there's truth

2661
02:35:33,080 --> 02:35:36,800
Speaker 1: which are if they're not beneficial, that do just agitate.

2662
02:35:37,520 --> 02:35:40,200
Speaker 2: I think that's and it's not about not saying it.

2663
02:35:40,200 --> 02:35:43,240
Speaker 2: It's the idea that you've thought so much about how

2664
02:35:43,280 --> 02:35:45,959
Speaker 2: you say it. Yes, it's not that you've sanitized it,

2665
02:35:46,000 --> 02:35:48,400
Speaker 2: because that's the modern day version. The Geeta is not

2666
02:35:48,480 --> 02:35:51,280
Speaker 2: telling you to sanitize or be silenced, right, it's telling

2667
02:35:51,320 --> 02:35:54,480
Speaker 2: you to filter your thought to make sure that the

2668
02:35:54,520 --> 02:35:58,200
Speaker 2: way you say it is digestible yes for everyone who's

2669
02:35:58,200 --> 02:36:01,080
Speaker 2: going to hear it, and therefore it actually transformative power.

2670
02:36:01,560 --> 02:36:04,040
Speaker 2: It's not that it's not provocative or that it doesn't.

2671
02:36:04,240 --> 02:36:05,920
Speaker 2: It's just that you're not saying it in a way

2672
02:36:05,959 --> 02:36:08,560
Speaker 2: to trigger or get a reaction. You're saying in a

2673
02:36:08,560 --> 02:36:11,120
Speaker 2: way that hits someone like an arrow of truth. Wow,

2674
02:36:11,160 --> 02:36:14,959
Speaker 2: it goes I have to change. Wow, because that person

2675
02:36:15,000 --> 02:36:17,120
Speaker 2: has been so mindful of how they spoke.

2676
02:36:17,400 --> 02:36:20,959
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's incredible as everything I've just been

2677
02:36:21,000 --> 02:36:25,080
Speaker 1: trying to say about. Yeah, if we got if everyone

2678
02:36:25,160 --> 02:36:28,640
Speaker 1: was mindful enough about how they spoke their truth, that

2679
02:36:28,720 --> 02:36:30,920
Speaker 1: it could just go straight to the heart.

2680
02:36:31,680 --> 02:36:35,160
Speaker 2: Oh, rather than hit the ego.

2681
02:36:35,000 --> 02:36:36,520
Speaker 1: Along the way.

2682
02:36:36,800 --> 02:36:40,600
Speaker 2: That's why we can't talk, because everything we say triggers

2683
02:36:40,600 --> 02:36:43,360
Speaker 2: someone's mind or their ego, and then everything we say

2684
02:36:43,560 --> 02:36:45,959
Speaker 2: does it back. And so now we're having a mind

2685
02:36:46,000 --> 02:36:49,520
Speaker 2: and ego debate, which isn't the one that goes all

2686
02:36:49,560 --> 02:36:51,119
Speaker 2: the way to tap you know, in your.

2687
02:36:51,360 --> 02:36:53,720
Speaker 1: We're so focused on defending whatever the thing is that

2688
02:36:53,760 --> 02:36:55,640
Speaker 1: we feel that we need to defend that we just

2689
02:36:55,680 --> 02:37:02,080
Speaker 1: can't heart. No, you can't hit the heart. So good, so.

2690
02:37:01,959 --> 02:37:07,000
Speaker 2: Good, Emma, thank you for thanks. The longest recorded conversation

2691
02:37:08,000 --> 02:37:13,520
Speaker 2: on purpose history. We have to change the cards, the

2692
02:37:13,520 --> 02:37:15,800
Speaker 2: cameras we had to like and we haven't paused, just

2693
02:37:15,840 --> 02:37:19,080
Speaker 2: to everyone knows, and Emma have not moved. So we

2694
02:37:19,120 --> 02:37:21,520
Speaker 2: didn't take a break. There was no bathroom break. No,

2695
02:37:21,680 --> 02:37:24,680
Speaker 2: there was no break of whatever kind of sat. There

2696
02:37:24,680 --> 02:37:26,920
Speaker 2: was no coffee break. We have sat in these seats

2697
02:37:27,160 --> 02:37:29,520
Speaker 2: for the entire duration that you watched the show or

2698
02:37:29,560 --> 02:37:33,400
Speaker 2: listen to it. And to Emma, you have the you

2699
02:37:33,400 --> 02:37:36,120
Speaker 2: know to your competitive and winning spirit, you have the

2700
02:37:36,480 --> 02:37:39,120
Speaker 2: award for longest ever podcast record.

2701
02:37:39,200 --> 02:37:44,280
Speaker 1: I don't know whether to be mortified or like seriously embarrassed,

2702
02:37:44,480 --> 02:37:48,160
Speaker 1: or or like feel like this is some kind of

2703
02:37:48,240 --> 02:37:50,080
Speaker 1: victory of some kind. I guess you sat here for

2704
02:37:50,200 --> 02:37:52,640
Speaker 1: like and not moved for more than three hours.

2705
02:37:53,600 --> 02:37:55,120
Speaker 2: Surely it's amazing.

2706
02:37:55,760 --> 02:37:58,200
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Well, thank you for thank you so much.

2707
02:37:58,240 --> 02:37:59,640
Speaker 1: That's been such an amazing conversation.

2708
02:38:00,040 --> 02:38:02,920
Speaker 7: If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with

2709
02:38:03,080 --> 02:38:07,320
Speaker 7: doctor Gable Matte on understanding your trauma and how to

2710
02:38:07,400 --> 02:38:11,039
Speaker 7: heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

2711
02:38:11,400 --> 02:38:13,960
Speaker 1: Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a

2712
02:38:14,240 --> 02:38:16,520
Speaker 1: tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it.

2713
02:38:16,520 --> 02:38:18,880
Speaker 1: It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.