WEBVTT - Holy Crap, What a Week 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.520 The media have declared Joe Biden the winner of the 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:08.440 twenty twenty presidential election. But under our constitutional system, it 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:11.280 turns out that the media don't actually get to pick 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:15.320 who the president is. Fortunately, we are joined by a 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.560 constitutional expert, somebody who knows a lot about elections. He 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.759 will help us understand the nitty gritty and who, in 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.840 fact will be the president. This is a verdict with 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:35.040 Ted Cruz. Welcome back to Verdicts with Ted Cruz. I 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:39.639 am Michael Knowles, Senator. I am no constitutional expert. I 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:41.839 did not go to law school, but I think I 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.720 am right in saying this. The media don't get to 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:48.720 pick the president, right, thankfully, although lord knows they're trying. 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.800 It is the voters who decide. And you know, I 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.000 got to say so. You and I are filming this 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:00.240 on Tuesday night. Election Day was a week ago. We 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:04.280 haven't done a podcast since before election Day. I kind 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:08.919 of feel like Thomas Jefferson in the musical Hamilton coming 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:14.560 back saying so what did I miss? Like, Holy crap, 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:19.959 what a week this has been. There's never been a 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:26.080 week like this in politics, in media, in life, and 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:32.280 the consequence for the nation are enormous. You know, we've 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.240 gotten a lot of messages of people asking why didn't 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.240 you do an episode during the election or the day 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.800 after the election. And I think people sometimes forget you 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:42.880 are a sitting US senator. You know, you do have 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.240 a pretty busy schedule, and the events have been changing 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:50.080 in real time. Obviously, on election night, you had certain 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:54.680 cable networks calling Arizona, for instance, for Joe Biden. Then 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:56.760 it seems like people were walking that back. Now it 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.560 seems unclear who's going to get Arizona. You had a 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.040 lot of vote coming really late in Pennsylvania, in Wisconsin 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:08.160 and Michigan, you had the polls counting stopping just at 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.359 ten o'clock at night, and then it was supposed to 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:12.480 not resume until the morning. Other reports that resumed in 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:17.440 the middle of the night. There's just so much disinformation, misinformation, 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.800 and on the legal front, obviously, there are so many questions. 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.560 So I know you have been through this actually before. 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.520 You were a lawyer on President George W. Bush's team 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.440 during the Florida recount and the questions of the two 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:34.440 thousand presidential election. What are we looking at here in 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:38.200 terms of President's Trump's chances for a second term in 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:42.200 terms of the ability to find fraud in Philadelphia, for instance. 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:45.080 Where are we on the legal front. Well, I'll start 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:49.400 with a radical proposition, which is that elections are decided 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.519 when the results have been counted and the legal proceedings 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:59.119 are over that that didn't used to be a controversial proposition. 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.600 You know, think back to election night. I was here 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:08.280 in Houston, was an election party with a number of friends. 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:13.200 That night was a great night. Republicans were winning, We 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.760 were winning the Senate, we were winning House seats, and 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:21.680 President Trump was winning re election. Early on Florida was 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.200 called for the president. Early on Ohio was called for 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.600 the president, and we were leading. I went home to 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:29.720 go to bed about two in the morning, and we 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:33.760 were leading in Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin. I mean, 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.760 it looked like a really strong night. And then I 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:39.440 suspect a lot of us went to bed and we 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.120 woke up in the morning and it's like what happened. 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.040 There are multiple lawsuits all over the country right now 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:55.120 playing out. There were going to be recounts in multiple states. 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:58.960 All of those proceedings have to be concluded before we 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.880 know who actually will be the winner state by state. 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.640 By state, and that's going to take, in all likelihood 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.040 several weeks. It's not going to take six months, but 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.800 the litigation is not going to be over by tomorrow. 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:16.480 And the night of the election. Number one, the media, 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:21.160 two outlets, Fox News and AP were really precipitous calling Arizona. 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:25.160 That was clearly a mistake. You know, when when CNNA 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.919 is calling out Fox for being too anti Trump, you know, 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.760 somebody's jumped the shark somewhere. I mean, I mean that 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:39.080 that's a problem. But the instant the vote totals shifted 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:43.640 to Joe Biden. We've seen virtually the entire mainstream media 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:48.280 try to engage in an immediate coronation, big tech engage 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:52.120 in total censorship of any view to the contrary. And 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:56.960 and they're behaving with this weird you know. I mean, 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:02.200 it's almost like their persecuting heritage. If you dare say, well, 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.520 let's wait till the litigation is resolved, they scream at 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:13.360 you your undermining democracy. That's nutty. No democracy means if 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.760 they're legal challenges, you resolve the legal challenges. And by 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.920 the way, this happens in elections all the time. We 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:25.560 see recounts, we see litigation. We see disputes over if 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.440 there were votes that were illegally cast, that litigation has 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.880 to be resolved. And you know the way it plays out. 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.880 Their cases in state court, their cases in federal court. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:40.599 The cases in state court will be adjudicated in a 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.359 trial court. They will, they will in many instances go 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.719 up to an intermediate court of appeals. They would go 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.960 up maybe to the state Supreme Court, and then the 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:52.120 US Supreme Court can take it from the state system. 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.479 There will also be cases in federal court that start 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:56.479 in federal district court, maybe go up to the Court 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.000 of Appeals, and they can go up to the Supreme Court. 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:03.000 So if you look at Bush versus Gore, as you 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.479 know my book One Vote Away, it's a whole chapter 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.960 on Bush versus Gore, and it goes into great detailed 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:13.320 Bush versus Gore took thirty six days when we arrived 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:18.799 in Florida. Within days, we had a chart of seven 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.520 different cases that we're all pending just in one state, 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.479 justin Florida, any one of which could have cost the 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.360 presidency of the United States. And it was chaos. We 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.480 went to the Florida Supreme Court twice. We went to 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.600 the US Supreme Court twice. And when I say went 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.400 to the US Supreme Court, I mean brief the case, 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.120 argued it, and got a written decision from the Supreme 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:42.680 Court twice in those thirty six days. And by the way, 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.080 we also tried a full case in the Florida Trial 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:50.159 Court in addition to multiple other arguments. So the court 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:54.719 system can operate, but all of us should expect the 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.359 courts to resolve these claims. There are lots of claims 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:03.520 of voter fraud. I don't know which claims are accurate 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:05.720 and which aren't. You don't know which claims are accurate 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.080 and which aren't. That's why we have a legal system. 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:13.240 That's what courts do. And in today's world where you 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.600 see you know, this Twitter allegation, that Twitter allegation, all 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.600 sorts of things, it's really hard to know, all right, 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:23.520 what really is the state of affairs? Well, we ought 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:27.520 to allow the legal system to actually hear evidence, to 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.360 examine the data, to listen to witnesses, to examine evidence, 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.040 and to make factual determinations. That's why we have a 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.280 judicial system, of course, And the idea that there was 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.520 no fraud whatsoever seems to me very difficult to believe. 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.240 You called this out right, and I have to tell you, 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.040 I don't mean to flatter you, Senator, but you were 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.720 one of the few elected Republicans who actually came out 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:53.400 strongly on this. Specifically in Philadelphia, you had Republican poll 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:56.240 watchers show up every election. You got poll watchers from 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.480 both campaigns. They show up, they make sure there are 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.000 no shenanigans going on. Republican poll watchers were turned away. 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:03.920 There was then a court order that said you have 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.800 to let the Republican poll watchers in. What happened, they 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.800 still encountered resistance trying to take a look at these polls. 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:14.320 That is outrageous, That is illegal, and who knows if 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.760 that's through an election. We can't know that. Obviously a 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:18.880 legal process has to play out. But to say that 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.280 there is no evidence whatsoever and we need to certify 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.600 these results and move on and waiting even five days 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.480 is too long and unprecedented. That just seems to be 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.200 not in correspondence with reality. Well, and let's take that 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.480 component for a moment. I've been trying to be very 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:42.200 active both on social media and also on media media, 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:48.040 engaging in these issues and leading the fight it's interesting 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.800 the media talking points and the dem talking points on 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.720 the Pennsylvania ballot observers is, well, no, no, no, they 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:58.120 were in the room. What they ignore is that they 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.440 were being kept twenty feet away or twenty five feet away. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:03.560 If you've ever tried to actually look at a ballot 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:06.880 twenty five feet away, you can't see the damn ballot. 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:09.920 You are not actually an observer if you're twenty five 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.320 feet away. Ultimately, they went to a Pennsylvania state court 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.720 and got an order to be six feet away. To 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.000 be honest, it's hard to observe a ballot six feet 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:21.199 away if you're trying to see are the guy's cheating? 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:27.199 And that's a second point to understand. It couldn't sound like, oh, 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.600 it's a technicality. It's a procedural issue whether there were 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:35.320 observers there. But the reason that the law mandates the 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:39.280 observers be there is to prevent people from engaging in fraud, 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.920 to prevent people from stealing votes. You look at Bush 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.440 versus Gore. One of the first things the Democrats did 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:53.800 is they sought recounts in four overwhelmingly Democratic counties in Florida, 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:59.600 and I talk about in my book one vote away. 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.520 How on the Bush legal team and I was a 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.120 young lawyer at the time. I was in my late 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.600 twenties and was part of it. Was an incredible legal 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.280 team that came together for George W. Bush. We had 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:14.439 a big debate about, Okay, do we counter by asking 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.560 for recounts and four overwhelmingly Republican counties. So if they're 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.120 going to go seek recounts and Democratic counties, does it 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.360 help us to do get recounts and Republican counties? We 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.720 didn't do so we decided no, let's not do so. 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.120 And I'll tell you the reason why. Because we believe 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.480 to a person that in the Democratic recounts that the 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:39.160 hard leftist partisans would cheat, that they'd be sitting there 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.360 those had chads that they literally we've poked them out 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.520 with their fingernails, like if you didn't look, boom, there 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.600 you go another vote for Gore. And what we said is, look, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.960 our guys won't cheat. Like, if we do a recount 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:53.040 in a Republican county, it doesn't help us because the 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.960 guys counting us are going to come up with basically 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.400 the same count that. Thankfully, I'm glad our guys won't cheat. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.880 Now look, some observers may say, oh, that's a pretty 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:09.280 partisan view of things. I can't prove as a conclusive 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:12.760 fact that the Democratic counters cheat significantly more than the 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.440 Republican accounters do. What I can tell you is the 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.040 reason we didn't seek a recount in the Republican counties 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.320 is that all of our lawyers, all of George W. 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.120 Bush's lawyers, believe that right, and so we didn't seek 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.000 a recount. It. As they recounted it, you kept seeing 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.920 the numbers for Gore grow and grow and grow. I mean, 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:34.079 it clearly played out in the pattern we anticipated. And 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.160 just for people who think there isn't historical president here, 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.520 obviously you've got Bush, bigre you've got the two thousand recount, 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:44.920 but actually your predecessor in the Senate from Texas, Lyndon Johnson, 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.840 who obviously went on to become president. There's great controversy 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:51.080 about his nineteen forty eight election to the Senate, where 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.320 I think it was about a million votes cast and 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.320 he won by something like eighty seven votes. You know, 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.680 it was fewer than one hundred votes, and it all 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:03.680 came from back thirteen Box thirteen, a box of ballots 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.560 from a notoriously corrupt county, and there's allegations that it 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:12.280 had been stuffed at. President Roosevelt actually joked about stuffing 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.920 ballot boxes at the time. This is an American tradition. 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:20.400 Unfortunately it is. There has been significant voter fraud. And 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:24.319 by the way, in these big democratic cities, cities like Pennsylvania, 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:28.520 cities like Philadelphia, cities like Detroit in Michigan. In Detroit, 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.480 they put poster board and covered up the ballot county 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:36.120 areas to hide them. You know, an analogy I use 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.439 this weekend on one of the Sunday shows, I said, listen, 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.760 if someone goes into a bank and shuts off all 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:47.480 the security cameras, what is the natural inference that leads 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.120 It's not that they're intending to do nothing wrong. I mean, 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.160 if you're shutting off the mechanism for observing it, that 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.959 people naturally say, well, there's a reason you don't want 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.480 people to see what you're doing. But but let me say, okay, 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.400 in terms of where we are, I mean a lot 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.280 of people are asking, all, right, where do we go? 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:11.840 What's next? Let me give you good news and bad news. Okay, 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.400 give me the good news first. Okay, the good news. First, 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:20.400 there is reason for some optimism because listen, this was 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.000 a weird election with COVID and you had massive mail 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:29.080 in votings and in person voting. The data show that 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.720 on election day the people that went physically to the 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.040 polls and voted in person, that Trump won those by 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.880 a significant margin. The data also show that in many 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.320 states on the mail in votes that Biden won those 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.520 by a significant margin. So here's the good news, and 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:51.120 a recount or in an election contest litigation, in person 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:57.120 election day votes are significantly less likely to be deemed 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:01.800 illegal rights it's hard to cheat those votes. Generally, the 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.280 count is what it is, and the in person election 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.840 good point votes rarely change mail in votes if you 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.320 look at recounts. If you look at election contests, some 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:16.439 significant percentage of mail in votes fairly predictably are excluded 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.280 as this doesn't meet the legal standards. This is whether 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:23.720 it's you know someone, a dead person, whether it is 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.800 someone who didn't sign the thing like for whatever reason. 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.800 That varies state by state, but mail in voters have 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:34.040 a significantly higher percentage of being excluded. In this instance, 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:39.000 mail in voters are predominantly for Joe Biden, so we 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:43.360 may well see as these recounts go forward, a larger 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:47.360 percentage of Biden votes being deemed illegal than Trump votes. 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.960 We don't know that, but there's reason to have optimism. 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.080 Now let me give you the flip side. Okay, I'm 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.200 braced for it. What's the bad news for the Trump 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.880 team to prevail? They can't just win in one state. 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:06.000 They've got to run the table. So let me give 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.240 you some of the numbers, because it's this is the 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:13.360 challenging piece. So right now, all right, I'm using the 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.880 New York Times election results as one source. New York 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.280 Times has Biden with a two seventy nine electoral lead 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.240 to two hundred and fourteen. You need two seventy to 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.080 be elected president. So it has Biden with two seventy nine. 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:31.800 So the Times hasn't called Georgia right now. Biden has 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.720 a fourteen thousand vote lead in Georgia, so we need 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:38.240 to pick up fourteen thousand votes in Georgia. The Times 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.280 hasn't called Arizona right now. Biden has a twelve thousand 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:45.680 vote lead in Arizona. Now let's talk about the states 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:50.080 that they have called for Biden. Wisconsin with ten electoral votes. 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.040 Biden has over a twenty thousand vote lead in Wisconsin. 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.640 Nevada with six electoral votes. Biden has over a thirty 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:03.720 six thousand vote lead in Nevada. Michigan with sixteen electoral votes. 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.480 Biden unfortunately has one hundred and forty eight thousand vote 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:12.320 lead in Michigan. That's a big lead. And then Pennsylvania, 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.600 which is the big Enchilada in terms of the most 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.640 electoral votes of the states we're talking about, Biden has 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.880 right now about a forty five thousand vote lead. That 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.720 is a lot of votes to shift in a recount 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.120 or a contest litigation. If you look at Florida and 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.160 Bush versus Gore, the whole course of it, we were 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.680 talking about a few thousand votes. Right at the end 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.880 of the day, George W. Bush won by five hundred 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:40.160 and thirty seven votes. Right, the totals in Florida started 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:44.640 out much much closer than where these totals are, And 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:49.640 if we were talking about one state, you could be 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.200 more optimistic about what the result would be. In this instance, 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.120 the Trump team's got to win in a whole bunch 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:01.640 of states, right, I suppose even when you hear those numbers, 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.120 I mean, it's amazing how thin some of Michigan accepted, 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.040 how thin some of the margins are in Georgia, for instance, 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:12.240 or Arizona or Wisconsin even But you know that that 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.959 is very tricky because time is running out. I suppose 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:16.919 one cause for hope is that we are in this 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.800 bizarre year of the universal unsolicited maland so perhaps that 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.639 gives a greater opportunity to flip them, but perhaps not. 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:25.600 I mean, that's a lot of votes in a lot 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.000 of states. So what you're saying is, let the legal 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.040 process play out. Do not in no way declare the winner, 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:33.960 you know it, or go along with the media, but 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.880 maybe don't pop the champagne. Yet, there's still a long 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.720 hill to climb. Well, and look there instances. Let's take 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.360 there was a county in Michigan that has publicly admitted 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:47.760 that there was a what they called a software glitch 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:54.320 that shifted six thousand votes from Trump to Bide. Now, 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.439 thankfully they caught it. They caught it and they did 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.200 a hand recount and discovered weight our results are way 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.040 off what we anticipated. And they said it's a glitch. 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:08.040 This software is used I believe in forty seven counties 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.120 in Michigan. So look, if there were six thousand votes 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.320 shifted in all forty seven counties, that would be enough 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:19.520 to move the margin. What the Michigan officials are arguing, however, 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:24.560 is that this quote glitch is idiosyncratic to just this 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:29.439 county and that it's not present more widely. Now, this 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:35.080 is an example of there's a reason to be skeptical 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:40.840 of their sort of self serving explanation. But it actually 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.280 is going to take the lawyers proving this in court. 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.520 It's going to take right now. And I've been on 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:50.720 the phone with the President. I've been on the phone 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:52.320 with Jared Kushner. I've been on the phone with the 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.680 White House. I have been urging them to bring in 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:03.560 a stronger legal team, more curious, high powered litigators, and 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.439 to go make their case. At this point, yelling about 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.679 it isn't going to change it. You got to go 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.360 into court, Yeah, and you got to put on evidence 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:21.440 and demonstrate to a court a legal basis that the 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:25.080 margins we're talking about state by state, that that portion 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:27.159 of the votes were illegally cast and that's got to 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:32.399 be proven with cross examination, with evidence. And we're not 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.320 there yet. I hope we get there but that's not 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:41.880 an easy task and it takes some real hard, careful, 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:46.119 diligent work, right right, Okay, you have not completely thrown 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.000 me into despair. There is still some cause for hope, 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.199 and obviously we'll see that play out. One of the 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.760 reasons I think a lot of people want President Trump 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:58.680 to get reelected is because they are so infuriated at 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:03.080 the blob, the deep state, the administrative state, the out 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.640 of control agencies, whatever you want to call it. And 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.320 you know, speaking of legal questions, I was wondering if 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.639 you were going to be arrested for murder earlier today 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:16.080 because you eviscerated mister Andrew McCabe, one of these corrupt 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:20.119 officials who was involved in the entire hoax and the 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:24.200 scandals of twenty sixteen surrounding that election and thereafter. It's 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.800 not getting any play. I noticed the testimony of Andrew 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:28.800 McCabe is not getting any play because everyone's focused on 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.359 the presidential But I thought it was extraordinarily telling. It's 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.679 one of the most important issues of the past four years. 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.199 And maybe going forward, could you just take us through 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.120 a little bit of what happened. First, we'll just play 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:43.000 a little clip of your grilling of mister McCabe. Mister mcabe. 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:47.040 Yesterday on MSNBC, Ben Roods, the former deputy National Security 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.879 advisor to President Obama, said that foreign leaders are already 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:55.240 having conversations with Joe Biden quote, talking about the agenda 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.480 they're going to pursue January twenty. It's mister McKay. Based 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.160 on that testimony, do you believe Joe Biden is violating 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:04.520 the Logan Act. I'm not aware of Ben Rhodes's statements, 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.840 or take it on faith he said what I read, 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.000 assuming he's that quote is accurate, and so a verbatim quote, 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.560 is that a violation of the Logan Act under any 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.600 plausible theory? I am not prepared to take your statement 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.640 on faith, and I am also not prepared to conduct 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.359 legal analysis. All right, you're a lawyer. Have you ever 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.919 answered a hypothetical in court? If it is correct that 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.040 I am accurately quoting, it's something the Department of Justice 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:35.600 frequently did wrong in this investigation. If that is what 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.160 Ben Rhodes said, If Joe Biden is talking with foreign 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.600 leaders right now, does it violate the Logan Act? Yes? 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.359 Or no. I'm not going to opine on a hypothetical 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:48.040 question about what him he is talking with foreign leaders, 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:50.280 and it doesn't violate the Logan Act because the Logan 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:52.800 Act is unconstitutional, which is why it's never been used 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:56.400 to prosecute anyone. You authorized using it to go after 0:21:56.480 --> 0:22:00.280 General Flynn as part of a political persecution. I can 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.119 give you the answer. Hell, no, Joe Biden is not 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:05.200 violating the Logan Act. The reason you won't say it 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.560 is because that was your flimsy political basis to go 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:12.040 after a decorated war hero because you disagreed with politically 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:15.920 with President Trump. Well, look, McCabe was the deputy director 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:21.280 of the FBI. Today was significant because there's been a conflict. 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:23.399 There's been a conflict for a couple of years between 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:29.560 McCabe and James Coomy, his boss, over whether Comy authorized 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:33.600 him and directed him to leak to the press. Comy's 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.879 testified now repeatedly under oath under penalty of perjury, that 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.359 he did not, that he never has, that he didn't. 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:45.800 McCabe had told the press that Comy had authorized to 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:49.359 But today was the first time McCabe ever said that 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:54.320 under oath. So that's a big deal. It's one thing. Look, 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:57.560 it ain't a crime. Delight of the press. May i'd 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.440 be a good idea. It may not be honorable or ethical, 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:04.200 but it is not. It doesn't carry a prison term 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:07.680 to lie to the press. If you lie to Congress 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:14.040 under oath, that is a crime. And so my objective 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:17.760 in this cross examination was to get and and Comy 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:22.040 testified before the election. I got him on record again saying, no, 0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:25.879 he didn't authorize McCabe to do this. McCabe, now he 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:28.480 you want to talk about a slippery witness. Boy, This guy, 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:32.640 he's smarmy and political and hates Trump and is a 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:37.600 hardcore Democrat and it was up to his eyeballs in 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:42.000 the political persecution of the president. But finally, after trying 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:46.480 to wriggle away repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, he said on the record, Yes, 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:51.840 Coomy did authorize me. And critically. I ended this cross 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:57.159 examination by saying, mister McCabe, the FBI has the records 0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:01.000 to demonstrate who's telling the truth. Either you're telling the 0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:03.040 truth or Comy's telling the truth. You can't both be 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:08.359 one of you's lying. Do you think the FBI should 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:13.800 release the records, whether emails or remember and or whatever 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:16.920 documents they have to if you're telling the truth, to 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:19.200 vindicate you, to tell show that you're telling the truth, 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:21.840 and if Comey's telling the truth, to vindicate him. Do 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:25.840 you think the FBI should release the materials? And McCabe said, yes, 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:29.040 they should release the materials. Well, hot diggity damn, I 0:24:29.040 --> 0:24:31.080 can tell you. I pulled my chief counsel aside right 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:32.600 after the hearing and said, all right, I want you 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:35.680