WEBVTT - Run Roger Run 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:07.160 Campsite media. 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.080 I lived in a jungle. I survived in a jungle, 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.320 and every conceivable thing could have happened. The person happened 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:14.720 to me who I was. To take off my shirt 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.800 and you're a see my body just totally crisscross from 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.319 bob wire, knife wounds, jumping through windows. I got about 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.400 two thousand stitches sold me together, and then I suppose 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:26.639 that the scars within me are even more so. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.440 We opened on the grounds of the Brampton Reformatory, which 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:35.680 really was a former World War II military base repurposed 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.600 by the Canadian government to be a place where criminals 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.000 deemed strong enough to hold a shovel could learn a trade. 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:49.440 The year is nineteen fifty four. Out of a gymnasium, 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.800 into the frosty moonlight march is sixty seven of the 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.840 type of men your mother used to warn you about. 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:03.000 Among their ranks are certified rob thieves and killers, all 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.479 clad head to toe in denim, all marching the five 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:11.840 hundred yards back to the barracks. Near the front of 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:13.959 the pack are the two kids I really want you 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.520 to see. There's Red, a short, wiry kid with a 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:21.160 face full of freckles, and then beside him is sixteen 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:26.240 year old Roger Roger Caron, a strapping, dark haired French 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:31.440 Canadian kid. If the story I'm about to tell you 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.120 has a hero, and I would argue that it does, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:38.399 it's him. While those around them march drowsily toward the 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.520 barracks at the end of another hard day, Roger and 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.039 Red's bodies are coursing with adrenaline because they know that 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:50.480 they have only five minutes before someone will discover the body. 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:55.080 As they march in lockstep, Roger gives his friend Red 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.600 a reassuring wink as he takes stock of what they're 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.160 up against. There were the guards who did the head count, 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.800 following behind, a few marching on either side of the pack, 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.640 and up ahead, three standing between them and the fence, 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:14.400 night sticks drawn. Roger squints towards the spotlight from the 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:18.320 tower that follows their every step. The silhouette of an 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.720 idling jeep hovers near by, daring these sorry teens to 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:27.440 try something stupid. It wasn't their plan to be in 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.280 the situation where they had no choice but to do 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.840 what they were about to do. But things on the 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:38.960 inside tend to explode out of nowhere. It was as 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.240 prism shit as it gets. The toughest guy in the place, 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:46.080 a dude literally named Boner, saw that Red had a 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:51.560 fancy cigarette lighter and wanted it. During recreational time, verbal 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:55.880 jabs between the two escalated to fisticuffs when Roger, who 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.760 was playing floor hockey in another part of the gymnasium, 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:03.720 sprinted to his friend, and before anyone could react, Roger 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.600 brought the hockey stick down on the crown of Boner's 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:12.240 skuld with everything he had. The goliath crumbled and lay 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:16.600 motionless before Roger read and the dozen other inmate witnesses 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.320 when someone said, your best bet is to jack Rabbit, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:26.680 and I mean tonight. As Roger's eyes flicked to the 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.280 fences topped with barbed wire, he didn't know if Boner 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:34.000 was alive or dead in the gymnasium behind him. As 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.520 it worked out, Boner would regain consciousness and was fine. 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.920 Boner isn't even what mattered, because what does is that 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:51.240 that night, in that reformatory, a legend was born. As 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:55.040 they approached the bottleneck before left turn, three guards stood 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.400 in their big swinging Dick's stances, the first and last 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.080 line of defense between Red and Roger and the prison fence, 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:06.119 the barbed wire, the beyond wheat fields, woods and darkness. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.080 The two friends exchanged one final look and they made 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:15.560 a move for it. They bolted. Roger thought it was 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:22.919 boring here anyway. The guards were quick with their hands 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:26.240 and nightsticks. Before he knew what was happening, Roger had 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.160 one guard clamped on his coat and the other with 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.279 a firm grip on his hair. As Roger rolled like 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.880 a crocodile to get them off of him, he saw 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.760 that his friend Read was already on the ground, being 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:42.360 pummeled by the guards. In a fit, Roger shoved them away, 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.720 leaving one guard with nothing but a fistful of his curls. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.200 And from there it was a pure hundred yard dashed 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:53.440 to the fence. Roger's feet pound the frozen ground, and 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.440 as he leaps onto the fence, he hears a chance 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:00.359 has broken out among the inmates and the distance the 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:04.000 barbed wire. With his bare hands, and hoists himself up. 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:08.400 As the chant grows louder, the barbs rip into his 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:11.920 clothes and then his flesh as he furiously pushes his 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:16.520 way over. When he can first make out what they're saying, 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.680 the boys across the field were chanting the thing that 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.839 inmates in that era, in that region would chant whenever 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:33.599 anyone would make a break for a chant that Roger 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:38.240 would hear many times in his life. But atop that fence, 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.960 covered in his own blood, with a floodlight shining on him, 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:47.040 this was the moment of his christening, as he tore 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.840 the barbs from the bloody denim and he fell through 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.719 the air to the other side. This was the moment 0:05:53.200 --> 0:06:06.159 he became Goboard. From iHeart Podcasts and Campsite Media, I'm 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:12.520 Sam Mullens and this is Go Boy Episode one, run 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:30.440 Roger Run. The story begins for me with my friend 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:32.880 Rob telling me to meet up with him in a 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.479 coffee shop. He said he had something he wanted to 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.279 give me. When we were in the place, he reached 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.200 into his bag and slid across the table between the 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:47.320 americanos a worn out copy of an out of print book. 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.200 On the cover was what looked like a stock photo 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:57.040 of prison bars and the title read Go Boy Memories 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:02.080 of a Life Behind Bars. As I leafed through the pages, 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:04.560 Rob told me it was a book he'd been obsessed 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.279 with for most of his life, that it was a 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:13.000 story filled with fistfights, bank robberies, jail breaks, and prison riots. 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:15.880 Very much the type of book that one dude would 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.440 give to another dude. But why was he giving it 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.920 to me? Rob told me this is a true story 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.960 about a real guy, and that he'd met and spent 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.960 time with this Roger Karan. And while the book is 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:36.080 an incredible story, his life beyond the margins was even 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:42.200 more compelling. And this, Rob explained, should be our next project. 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.920 Rob's a documentary filmmaker, and I make podcasts like this, 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.520 so I was like, what happened in his life beyond 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:55.760 the book? Rob said, just read this first, and sitting 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.520 down with this thing was unlike any reading experience I've 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:04.640 ever had. Yes, the writing is exceptional and violent, but 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:09.720 beyond the violence is a singular voice that is like 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:14.960 an electric howl from the dark, And the book itself 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:19.240 performs a magic trick where with each page turn you 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:24.040 slowly come to grasp the insane unlikelihood of the book 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:27.280 in your hand existing at all. 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.040 Our guest is a man who's said that he was 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:35.480 borne to raise how. 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.520 Roger Karan was sixteen and first convicted a. 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.640 Forty two, has spent twenty four of those years in jail, 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:44.720 twelve years in solitary. 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.840 To see Roger Koran on his book tour, and many 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:54.360 speaking engagements captured in glorious, crackling vhs. You're struck first 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.160 by how much he doesn't sound like an author. 0:08:57.960 --> 0:08:59.760 And I broke up with jail more than you have 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:06.040 in Canada, take thirteen times, and I really am for it. 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.120 When he's on TV promoting his book Go Boy, he 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.719 just doesn't look or move like a person who has 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:21.280 ever written anything. He looks more like a boxer, an athlete, 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:25.320 like Brando in on the Waterfront. And no matter how 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.920 puffy the early eighties sweater he's wearing, it's clear that 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.719 underneath his body is carved from granite. 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.640 I've just come to the conclusion that I'm, in fact, 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:39.000 almost two people I have to be to keep my stand. 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.080 I think you guys, spend twenty four years in prison 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:45.120 in a sudden transition to the outside world is mind boggling. 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.920 As he sits in these TV studios, he has an 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:54.760 appealing shucks approachability. There's no airs here. He instead wears 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.360 an expression that says, can you believe it? Like he's 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.040 a lotto winner holding one of the those big checks, 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:05.079 which isn't far off. Now, tell me how well has 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.000 that book done. It's been on two printings, right. 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:08.080 Oh, extremely well. 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.000 Sales of god Boy are skyrocketing. 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:12.959 In less than ninety days, It's sold one hundred thousand 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:17.199 copies in Canada. It's everywhere drug stores and supermarkets and everything. 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.800 It's bestseller in French, bestseller earning is It's throughout the 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.280 Commonwealth now as far as Australia and New Zealand. 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:30.480 But in these interviews there are moments where one is 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:34.000 reminded that this is not a man or story that 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:38.600 would usually be featured in these programs. Television hosts and 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.319 panelists and people in the studio audiences will ask them 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:48.240 straight up, how are you still alive? Did you ever 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:54.960 think you were losing your mind? Why would they starve you? 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:59.720 Can we see your scars? How did you never take 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:05.400 your own life? The words on the page that changed 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.079 Roger Kuran's life, that had brought him to these heights, 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:14.199 that had captivated a nation, were covered in blood and grime. 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.440 While everyone and their dog was reading it, there was 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.800 one person decidedly avoiding its pages. 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.240 I'm probably the only author in the world who hasn't 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:26.000 read its own book. 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.520 I haven't read the Gold Boy and hardcover. I haven't 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.199 read it the paperback. I haven't read it in the 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.160 French version. I here's a good book. I haven't read it. 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:37.840 He didn't need the help of his book to remember 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.920 the things he'd seen, the horrors he'd survived. It came 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.840 back to him often enough in his nightmares. 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.800 I screamed so loud in my sleep that I dislocated 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.839 my right my job. So this is a very real book. 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.040 This isn't fection, and it is so scary it's incredible. 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.440 Twenty five years before the Go Boy book tour, sixteen 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:11.920 year old Roger leaped from the top of the barbed 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.800 wire fence. He could hear his friend Red's voice cut 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:23.880 through the night. Go Roger, Go, Go Go. He emerged 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.720 from the brush and entered the town a mess after 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.560 just one night on the run. He looked and walked 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.280 like a zombie. The cut on his chest from the 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:37.079 barbed wire needed stitches. He was covered in welts from 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.520 the struggle with the guards, His uniform was in shreds, 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.680 and he was caked in blood and mud from writhing 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.800 on the ground in pain all night because also a 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.960 horse stepped on him while he was catching his breath 0:12:52.080 --> 0:13:04.280 in a field. But at least he was free. He 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.240 made it all of seventy two hours before he was 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:11.800 arrested in a diner and he was driven to Guelph, Ontario, 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.720 one of Canada's oldest cities, known for its hockey culture 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.160 and known among juvenile delinquents as the place you don't 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:25.040 want to go. He entered the reformatory, this time as 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.520 a repeat offender and was thus placed among the general 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:32.200 population of the prison. He heard through the grapevine that 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.520 his good friend Red was being disciplined internally back in 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.840 Brampton for their escape attempt, but it seemed only a 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.800 matter of time before Red would do something to wind 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:46.719 up here too. Roger would need a friend, because this 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.680 time he was in the true jungle Gwelph Reformatory. 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:52.280 In those days it was one thousand inmates. 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.400 There was more guns there than any penitentiary in Canada. 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:57.240 That was a pretty tough joint. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.240 If he was going to survive, he had to learn 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:05.040 quickly the art of being invisible among the milling bodies. 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.959 He took on the posture of a shadow on the wall, 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.520 arms crossed, hat perched on the tip of his nose, 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:16.080 seeing all around him, careful to never be caught looking. 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.520 The only conspicuous part of him was his unfortunately shiny 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.440 boots he'd been issued a few weeks prior, and it 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.680 wasn't long until a dude with an entourage swung by 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:32.680 to ask if they could try them on. Roger stood 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.720 still as a statue as this welcome wagon hectored him, 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.920 wondering aloud if they might be the same size. But then, 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.600 at the instant the bully reached for Roger, he planted 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.800 his shiny leather boots so swiftly into the testicles of 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.840 the leader he crumpled to the floor, gagging on the air. 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.200 Roger switched into his fighting stance and shoved a hand 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.520 into his pocket to firmly grip his imaginary shive, daring 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.640 them to call his bluff. The guys backed off, but 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.200 unfortunately for Roger, one of the guards had seen the 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.520 whole thing, and he was taken to the warden to 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:19.520 receive his punishment ten days in the cooler. They shoved 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:24.480 them in and closed the door. The bed was made 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.800 of uneven steel slats, and in place of a toilet. 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.960 There was just a hole on the ground that flushed 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.760 every sixty seconds day and night. 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.640 And as cold, dead as this coal started making me 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.000 shiver and natica rabbit waters running along the walls, and 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:42.720 the rats are running along that fights. 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:42.920 You know. 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.360 Part of his punishment was that his diet was reduced 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:51.000 to just bread and water. Bread and water, three times 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:52.880 a day. Bread and water. 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.440 We used to break water and pick our guys in virginios. 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.040 We had eight food to sleep it, he said, Bring 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:00.440 the biggest water bringers in the world. I had to 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:01.520 put something in our stomach. 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.760 Castik Roger would be in many cells just like this 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.640 one in his life, hungry and cold, where the only 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.880 company was the rapid engine of his thoughts and the 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.040 thick walls that seemed to move a little closer every 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:20.000 time he blinked. While Roger was down in the cooler, 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.360 his friend Red was transferred to Gwelph, just like he'd 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.200 hoped and had scored a job in the kitchen. Roger 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.920 couldn't wait to link up with his buddy, to slap 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.080 him on the back and go about finding a way 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:36.720 to survive this place together, but they never got the chance. 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.040 Red and some of the guys on kitchen detail had 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.720 tried making a prison brew out of some cherries they 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.800 had in the kitchen. They let the fruit ferment in 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.120 a metal container they'd found, and when the brew was ready, 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:53.680 they all got hammered off their glorious artisanal sauce. But 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.280 later that night, the four who drank from the brew 0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:00.840 suddenly developed severe cramps. Red had it the work, and 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.199 he was rushed to the hospital. It turned out that 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.639 the metal lining of the container they used for their 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.800 brew poisoned the whole batch, and Roger's good friend Read 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:17.479 had died. This was Roger's introduction to life behind bars. 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.760 In just the first two months, he'd committed assault with 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.919 a weapon, split his chest in two on the barbed 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:31.040 wire fence, was stomped by a horse, kicked someone's testicles 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:35.560 into their body, was thrown into solitary, and lost the 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:40.000 only friend he had on the inside. It was a 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:45.399 wicked and bitter first taste, and as Roger shivered in 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.240 his cell, he wondered how did he end up here? 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:59.840 Roger was born to a poor French Canadian family in Cornwall, Ontario, 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.959 in the spring of nineteen thirty eight. In the context 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.919 of this large Catholic family, juxtaposed with the throngs of 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.040 siblings to compare him to. It was clear from an 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.119 early age that Roger was a little different. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.199 I had this tremendous energy that kept propelling me to 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:20.600 do things, and because I had no education, I couldn't 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:22.199 understand what was happening inside me. 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.760 Every adult in his life was trying to get this 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.840 spirited boy to sit still at the dinner table, the 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:35.000 church pew, or the classroom seat. But he couldn't do it. 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:37.120 Roger had to go. 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.920 He had to run naturally. I disrupted classes. I just 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:41.680 couldn't sit down. 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.679 I couldn't concentrate. That put me down in a classroom 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.800 on a chair was like couh, an unusual punishment. 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:50.360 He just didn't sit his little Putsi down at all. 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.040 He just go, go, go. He learned to be go 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:55.480 boy very young. 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.879 This is Sue, Roger's little sister. As with any large fan, 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.040 the kids will break into smaller subgroups, and to Roger, 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:08.119 Sue was the closest in age and the closest in heart, 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.120 the Lisa to his Bart Simpson. 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.480 It was it was never a dull moment between the 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.920 truant officer coming looking for Roger daily. 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.679 A truant officer back then functioned like a dogcatcher, but 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:24.200 for children. 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.680 He actually kept the truant officer in a full time job. 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.480 I just couldn't concentrate the cossman. Therefore I became a 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:31.720 truant officer's number one. 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.879 Sure, he'd roam the streets feral, usually with a fishing 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.120 rod over his shoulder and a slingshot in his pocket, 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.120 always on the lookout for the officer. 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:44.560 They just never seemed to be able to find him. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.600 He'd make his little appearance for a few minutes at 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.000 the school and have him forbid there was a recess, 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.280 because then he just never made it back in the class. 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:54.879 His passion was to play hooky by fishing on the 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.200 banks of the Saint Lawrence or by practicing his aim 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:04.080 on the squirrels during school hours. You know, if Roger 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.359 was born today, it's easy to imagine how a parent 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.720 nowadays would be like, Oh, he just has different needs 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.320 and learns in a different way. But he grew up 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.000 in the forties when they dealt with kids like him 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.240 with a firm hand in the shape of a fist. 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.480 Was a hyperactive kid, queen says, still in the classroom, 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:25.080 and hyper activity wasn't diagnosed back in at night I 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:26.160 went to school, it. 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.320 Was he got the devil. Were only one way to 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:30.560 get the devil see John Bosco school. I had religious 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:32.680 brothers and nuns, you know, and they'd just get you 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.000 an am right. I mean this for your own good kids, 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:36.320 saying boom, don't do again. 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.320 Everything Roger did seemed to land him in trouble and 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.720 complicating things further. For young Roger was that the grown 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.000 up world of what was right and wrong and good 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:51.399 and bad was slippery and shaped almost entirely by the 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.679 actions of his father, a man for whom the laws 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:58.800 of the land would bend as he saw fit. His 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.120 old man would find as a carpenter, and Roger used 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.520 to see him come home with items he'd swiped from 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:06.440 the work site. 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.000 I watched him come home with a keg and nails 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:09.480 one night. 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:11.919 Next night with a hammer. And you ever accused my 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.280 father's stealing? He said, that's not stealing. 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.399 He says. They're a rich capitalist. He says, in my 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:18.639 roof is leaking. I need the nails and a hammer 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:19.000 for that. 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:22.480 His father would catch fish out of season and he'd say, 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:25.000 if I throw this fish back, it's just going to 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:27.760 be caught by some fat cat with a yacht downriver. 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:33.080 Having a misguided moral compass like this translated into him 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.760 never holding down a job for very long, perhaps because 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:43.359 he was stealing. But eventually Roger's father did discover his 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:44.280 true calling. 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:46.800 Yes, my father was a bootlegger. 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.199 When they were tucked in their beds at night, the 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:53.200 booming adult voices would echo through the house. Roger would 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.359 nudge Sue awake, and they'd hear through the vents the 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:58.440 discourse happening downstairs. 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:04.000 That was always interesting, Always interesting stories you'd hear as children. 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:05.480 Our ears are always wide open. 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:08.639 The kids learned to adapt to their father's side hustle 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.760 and the shenanigans it brought with it into the house. 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:14.440 If cops used to come, you know, surround the house, 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:16.480 gang bus your style, come in the front door, back 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:18.320 door and search and bust my father. 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:21.159 I remember being a child where the police would come 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:22.880 in to me. It was the middle of the night 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:25.600 with big flashlights in my face. 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:29.119 In the comfort of his childhood bed, being surprised by 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:31.960 an angry man in uniform shining a bright light in 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:35.440 his face was an image Roger would never shake. 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:38.040 They would actually make me get out of my bed 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:41.000 to check my sheets to make sure that no beer 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:42.560 or anything was hidden in there. 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:45.480 These types of scenes were happening often enough at the 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:48.840 house that Roger and Who's Dad took it upon himself 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:51.280 to build some new relationships. 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:53.800 One of the most popular policemen in Cornwall used to 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:55.920 come in our driveway and he went, if you're paying 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:58.400 me a certain percentage, I'll tip this off whenever we're 0:22:58.400 --> 0:22:59.000 going to RADI you. 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:01.520 He knew most of the time when a raid was coming. 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:03.200 Very seldom he didn't. 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:07.080 He wasn't doing wrong because he was given twenty five 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:10.000 percent of his take every Sunday to the parish priest, 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:13.119 and so therefore he had he had God's blessing for 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:14.719 doing for selling boost. 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:18.800 Young Roger was watching all of this very closely. 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:22.000 It's catch twenty two. Really, you know when you say, well, 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:24.399 if you're going to tell me to do this, then 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:25.880 how come you're doing this. 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:29.200 Roger was only twelve years old when he was arrested 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:34.160 for breaking and entering. To the surprise of no one, I'm. 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:36.520 A kid, I'm getting banged around, bounced off the walls 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:38.480 because I'm bad, because I'm no good, I'm going to 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:40.080 end up in prison on the gallows. 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:41.399 I'm a thief on this and that. 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.600 It was only a matter of time before Roger would 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:46.399 get into more serious trouble. 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:48.560 Everybody told me I was bad and I can't and 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:50.320 I was going to end up in jail. So I said, well, 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:52.639 I got this energy drive, this motor drive, so if 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:54.920 I'm going to be bad, I'm also to be the baddest. 0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:58.320 When he was sixteen, he got pinched for stealing from 0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:01.639 a sporting goods store. If it was any other kid 0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:05.520 who didn't have a several years long reputation for trouble 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:08.560 making with the truant officer, they might have just given 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:11.679 him a slap on the wrist. But the court wanted 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.280 to send a message, so they sent him to the 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:18.720 gwelf Reformatory, one of the most notorious prisons in Canada. 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:22.680 And the judge told me, I hope you go in there. 0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:24.439 I'm going to send you into the school and I 0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:26.160 hope you learn something. 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:27.359 You come out a better man. 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:40.200