1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,640
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast, am on iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,800
Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast, George Nori with you.

3
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,520
Speaker 2: Paul Smith Back with Us. Served for seven years in

4
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:16,240
Speaker 2: the government's Stargate Remote Viewing Psychic Espionage program at Fort Mead, Maryland,

5
00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,200
Speaker 2: Major US Army retired and is one of the only

6
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,160
Speaker 2: five Army personnel to be personally trained to coordinate remote

7
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,760
Speaker 2: viewing by doctor hal put Off and the late INGOs

8
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:32,680
Speaker 2: Swan at SRI International. Besides being an operational remote viewer,

9
00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,960
Speaker 2: he was the primary author of the Military CRV Training

10
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,880
Speaker 2: Manual served as a theory instructor for the new CRV

11
00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,320
Speaker 2: Traine Personnel. A desert storm veteran, Paul retired from the

12
00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,040
Speaker 2: Army in ninety six founded Remote Viewing Instructental Services, which

13
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,400
Speaker 2: offers full service remote viewing training. He continues to write

14
00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,040
Speaker 2: teach consultant lecture in the remote viewing field. A couple

15
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,400
Speaker 2: of his books include The Essential Guide Remote Viewing and

16
00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,240
Speaker 2: Reading the Enemy's Mind And PAULA was great seeing you

17
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:05,720
Speaker 2: at contact in the desert.

18
00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:07,840
Speaker 3: That was fun, wasn't it?

19
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,320
Speaker 2: It really was? You moved. I hear you're in Utah.

20
00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 3: Now, yes, yep, it's a lot cooler up here than

21
00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:16,520
Speaker 3: it was in Austin.

22
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,119
Speaker 2: Did you remote view it before you moved.

23
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,160
Speaker 3: No, I used to drive through here when I was

24
00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:23,200
Speaker 3: on my way to college.

25
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 2: Well that's great.

26
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,600
Speaker 3: How have you been, well, I'd say, fine. I'm right

27
00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,360
Speaker 3: now sitting in a recliner with ice pack on my

28
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,800
Speaker 3: hip where I just had a hip replacement replacement.

29
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:36,679
Speaker 2: Oh you did, what happened?

30
00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,040
Speaker 3: Well? The first hip replacement I had back in Austin

31
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 3: almost eleven years ago. Now, it turned out was made

32
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,120
Speaker 3: of some bad materials. I ended up with a bunch

33
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:52,320
Speaker 3: of cobalts in my system. Oh yeah, so they had

34
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 3: to replace it almost three weeks ago. And I'll tell you,

35
00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 3: I already feel way better than I was feeling even

36
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,840
Speaker 3: right there when I was in contact. You know, this

37
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,280
Speaker 3: was before the surgery, but I knew it was coming up,

38
00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,480
Speaker 3: and I still managed to talk to my doctors and

39
00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 3: to let me come.

40
00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,320
Speaker 2: Truly remarkable what they can do now with human parts

41
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,640
Speaker 2: in artificial prestiges and stuff like that. I know a

42
00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,720
Speaker 2: guy who owns a company that makes arms and limbs

43
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:26,040
Speaker 2: and legs, and he said, it's truly remarkable. It's digital now,

44
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 2: where computers even control your movements.

45
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,440
Speaker 3: You know that is a miracle. I mean, if you

46
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,440
Speaker 3: think fifty years ago what we couldn't do and how

47
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,200
Speaker 3: miserable life was then, but most people didn't realize how

48
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,160
Speaker 3: miserable it was in comparison to what it could be.

49
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,920
Speaker 3: And nice, it's nice that we've made progress.

50
00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,760
Speaker 2: Well, tell us how you got involved with roroaldioing.

51
00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:57,440
Speaker 3: Well. I was an Army intelligence officer and after a

52
00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,519
Speaker 3: tour in Germany, I got stationed at Fort met Maryland

53
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,480
Speaker 3: to be a spy, so to speak. And at the

54
00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,600
Speaker 3: time I'd never put the words remote and viewing together.

55
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,640
Speaker 3: I'd never heard of it. Most people hadn't, but I

56
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,600
Speaker 3: was lucky enough to move in. They assigned me quarters

57
00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:22,399
Speaker 3: right next door to skip out Water, it turned out,

58
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,560
Speaker 3: was the training and operations officer for the Remote VIEWNI unit,

59
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,320
Speaker 3: and across the street from Tom McNair, who was at

60
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,200
Speaker 3: that time being trained by Ingo Swan. I had no

61
00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,359
Speaker 3: idea what they did, but I also had no idea.

62
00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,960
Speaker 3: They were kind of keeping their eye on me because

63
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:42,000
Speaker 3: they were looking for new remote viewer candidates. And one

64
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 3: day they came to my door and said, hey, we

65
00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:45,840
Speaker 3: think you might be good to what we do. And

66
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,320
Speaker 3: I said, well what do you do? And they said,

67
00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,200
Speaker 3: we can't tell you. And I said, I've got all

68
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,920
Speaker 3: the clernches you can get almost and you can't tell

69
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 3: me Nope. I said, well, how do you know if

70
00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,440
Speaker 3: I'd be good at it or not? They said, we're

71
00:03:58,440 --> 00:03:59,960
Speaker 3: going to give you some task, but we think you'll

72
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,920
Speaker 3: do all right. And you know, and apparently I passed

73
00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,080
Speaker 3: because they took me over and sat me down and

74
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,680
Speaker 3: read me onto the remote viewing program and asked you

75
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 3: if I wanted to volunteer, and I absolutely wanted to volunteer.

76
00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 3: It sounded like the most exciting thing I've heard in

77
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:15,480
Speaker 3: a long time.

78
00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,200
Speaker 2: Tell people what remote viewing is, Paul.

79
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,039
Speaker 3: Remote Viewing is actually a skill that one can develop.

80
00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,800
Speaker 3: It's based on an underlying ability everybody's got. Everybody can

81
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:32,520
Speaker 3: you know? People say, well, you have to have a

82
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,280
Speaker 3: gift to be psychic, and the truth is, yes, you do.

83
00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,800
Speaker 3: But everybody has that gift. We're born with it, but

84
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 3: we oftentimes don't know how to use it. Remote Viewing

85
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,800
Speaker 3: is a way of teaching you how to use it

86
00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,159
Speaker 3: and then helping give structure and discipline to the process,

87
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,040
Speaker 3: so you increase your accuracy and your reliability. So it's

88
00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:57,920
Speaker 3: kind of like I like to I'd like to say it,

89
00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,400
Speaker 3: it's like controlled or discipline clear lands.

90
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,000
Speaker 2: And at what point did you meet Ingo Swan, the

91
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,240
Speaker 2: late Ingo Swan.

92
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,520
Speaker 3: So I was brought into the unit on the first

93
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,839
Speaker 3: of August nineteen eighty three, and they kept telling me

94
00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,400
Speaker 3: stories that you know, come January, you're going to go

95
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,440
Speaker 3: through your training and you're going to meet Ingo Swan

96
00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:27,000
Speaker 3: and he's going to scare you to death. He kept

97
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,919
Speaker 3: talking about how strict he was and how he didn't

98
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,200
Speaker 3: brook any nonsense, and you better have all your ducks

99
00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,000
Speaker 3: in a row and do exactly what he says or

100
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:44,160
Speaker 3: things won't go comfortably for you. And so when it

101
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 3: came time to meet him, I got off the plane

102
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,160
Speaker 3: in San franciscoing and drove down to Mental Park to

103
00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,440
Speaker 3: SRI International and we went to lunch with Ingo Swan

104
00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:02,320
Speaker 3: and he was wearing tweet jacket and harness boots and

105
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:07,760
Speaker 3: Levi's and he was very friendly and very engaging and

106
00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,720
Speaker 3: very interesting and it wasn't at all like I had expected.

107
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,480
Speaker 2: That came later truly remarkable. How did he get involved

108
00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,279
Speaker 2: in remote viewing in the first place.

109
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,039
Speaker 3: Ingo, Yeah, Ingo invented remote viewing.

110
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:24,000
Speaker 2: He was the guy.

111
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,880
Speaker 3: He was the guy. He is the father of remote viewing.

112
00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,040
Speaker 3: Sometimes he preferred the term grandfather, but he was the

113
00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 3: father of remote viewing. He was the one that came

114
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 3: up with the idea for the protocol, and he's the

115
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,640
Speaker 3: one that ultimately developed the most, the most grounded and

116
00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:47,040
Speaker 3: prevalent method of remote viewing. And other people sometimes get

117
00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,560
Speaker 3: given credit for it. In fact, I was reading a

118
00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,000
Speaker 3: document the other day that said that hal put Off

119
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,960
Speaker 3: an Ingo Swan who I mean, sorry, Hal put off

120
00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,680
Speaker 3: In Russell Tark who truly deserved a lot of credit.

121
00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,599
Speaker 3: But it said that they invented And of course that

122
00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,360
Speaker 3: wasn't true at all, and neither one of them would

123
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,440
Speaker 3: have would have claimed to have invented it. They all

124
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,840
Speaker 3: knew that Ingoswan was the one that came up with

125
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:10,280
Speaker 3: the whole notion of remote hearing.

126
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:16,280
Speaker 2: My late aunt, doctor Shoshika cor Regula new Ingo. Yeah,

127
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 2: and they were very close.

128
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,760
Speaker 3: Yes, well, she was an amazing woman.

129
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 2: Yeah she was.

130
00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,560
Speaker 3: I've got her book, Breakthrough the Creativity, But George, I

131
00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,800
Speaker 3: have to ask your forgiveness. I haven't yet read it.

132
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,520
Speaker 2: How long have you had it? It's about forty years old.

133
00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. I didn't get it back there. I've got it

134
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,480
Speaker 3: more recently. In fact, I got it on your recommendation

135
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:43,200
Speaker 3: a few years back.

136
00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,560
Speaker 2: When you were on the show. I think I remember.

137
00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 3: Saying, yeah, you brought that book up, and I said,

138
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:48,040
Speaker 3: I've got to get it.

139
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:53,560
Speaker 2: So in one of Ingo's books he makes mention of

140
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:58,680
Speaker 2: my aunt. He was really something else. He was one

141
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,600
Speaker 2: of you guys. Was he a fun guy to be around?

142
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,640
Speaker 3: He could be very fun. Yeah, he could very very fun.

143
00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,400
Speaker 3: It turned out he could be very strict too, and

144
00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:15,320
Speaker 3: demanding and he didn't did not brook any nonsense. But

145
00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,840
Speaker 3: there were times, you know, we went For example, he

146
00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,960
Speaker 3: loved to go to what he called training films. So

147
00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,040
Speaker 3: we'd worked pretty hard on the remote viewing process, and

148
00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,640
Speaker 3: then in the afternoon he'd say, we need to go

149
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,520
Speaker 3: to a training film, and so we saw First Run

150
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 3: the Terminator, Firestarter, go on Blanket on the name of

151
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:42,800
Speaker 3: that one read Dawn. He enjoyed going and seeing a

152
00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,199
Speaker 3: film right now, and then as a oh, Ghostbusters, I

153
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:51,199
Speaker 3: can't leave Ghostbusters outters huh oh, yeah, yeah, we went

154
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,360
Speaker 3: to that show in Midtown Manhattan, theater in Midtown Manhattan,

155
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,440
Speaker 3: and when we left the theater there was somebody selling

156
00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,560
Speaker 3: Ghostbuster T shirts on the sidewalk, and so we all

157
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:01,480
Speaker 3: had to get one.

158
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,680
Speaker 2: Now, I'm sure people practiced remote viewing before it was

159
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,480
Speaker 2: officially called that, right.

160
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:15,480
Speaker 3: Well, certainly there were similar things that people did. People

161
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,520
Speaker 3: talked about Shawmans did some kind of remote viewing, and

162
00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,520
Speaker 3: they talked about traveling. Clairvoyance is essentially being another name

163
00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,880
Speaker 3: for remote viewing and so on. But in fact there

164
00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,200
Speaker 3: are a few distinctions between the two. And people getting

165
00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:31,800
Speaker 3: arguments all the time about this, you know, is it

166
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:37,680
Speaker 3: really anything different? And the way you can go originally

167
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,040
Speaker 3: proposed the protocol, So we have to talk about two

168
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,240
Speaker 3: different things. One is method, which is what you do

169
00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,680
Speaker 3: when you're doing remote viewing. The other's protocol, and that's

170
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 3: the conditions under which you do remote viewing. So it's scientific.

171
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,840
Speaker 3: It's a very scientific based thing. And he had a

172
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,280
Speaker 3: number of different experimental paradigms that you followed recipes essentially

173
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,680
Speaker 3: to uh to how what you did to make it

174
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:12,440
Speaker 3: remote hearing, and those are distinctly different from any other

175
00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,119
Speaker 3: psychic or esp based discipline.

176
00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,800
Speaker 2: Was he born with his gift?

177
00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,319
Speaker 3: Well, remember what I said, everybody's born with it, but yeah,

178
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 3: he developed it himself. He didn't. He didn't get taught

179
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,640
Speaker 3: of that although. So he was born in tell you Ride, Colorado.

180
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:33,719
Speaker 3: He was a Westerner, and he was born in tell

181
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,959
Speaker 3: you Write, Colorado, and then he grew up in Utah,

182
00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,640
Speaker 3: which is the state I live in now. He spent

183
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,880
Speaker 3: his teenagers, teenage and young adult years here and went

184
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 3: to college in in Salt Lake at Westminster College. And

185
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,880
Speaker 3: uh and uh. So he was a Westerner, but he

186
00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,480
Speaker 3: was born in in uh intel your Ride, and he

187
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,640
Speaker 3: lived with his maternal grandmother and his parents, and he

188
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,319
Speaker 3: kept having these things, which he later learned were out

189
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,720
Speaker 3: of body experiences, and he'd report them, and his mom,

190
00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,960
Speaker 3: who didn't want to believe in any of that stuff,

191
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,880
Speaker 3: kind of shutting down. But his grandmother had had similar

192
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,440
Speaker 3: experiences and she encouraged him. So he started off having

193
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,440
Speaker 3: these out of boudy experiences. And later on, after he

194
00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,440
Speaker 3: had gone to college and spent three years in the

195
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,480
Speaker 3: army in Korea and then moved to New York, where

196
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,960
Speaker 3: he wanted to establish himself as an artist. He had

197
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,840
Speaker 3: to have a day job, and so he was working

198
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:39,000
Speaker 3: as a admin assistant at the UN the United Nations.

199
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,880
Speaker 3: While I was there, he got involved in some scientific

200
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,920
Speaker 3: research at the City College of New York and the

201
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 3: American Society Cyclical Research, where academics were studying ESP type phenomena,

202
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,959
Speaker 3: and one of them he mentioned that he'd had out

203
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,240
Speaker 3: of Boudy experiences, and so that's how he got in

204
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:06,480
Speaker 3: on that. Carlsosis, who was running the aspr's program researching

205
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,520
Speaker 3: out of out experiences, recruited EGO for that, and that's

206
00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:14,680
Speaker 3: how he got into the actual scientific research field involving parapsychology.

207
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 2: So he was psychically inclined from the get go, wasn't

208
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:18,240
Speaker 2: he He.

209
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,680
Speaker 3: Was pretty much you know, how early did it start,

210
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:22,720
Speaker 3: I don't know, but certainly by the time he was,

211
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:28,280
Speaker 3: you know, maybe four or five, he was certainly having experiences.

212
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:34,560
Speaker 2: Did the government develop its remote viewing program to augment

213
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,559
Speaker 2: what the Soviets were doing? Who came first?

214
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,880
Speaker 3: Well? That sounds like a Lauren Hardy routine, doesn't it,

215
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:55,240
Speaker 3: he does, Well, that's an interesting story. So by most

216
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,920
Speaker 3: accounts of the United States, United States came first, but

217
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,559
Speaker 3: didn't know it had come first. And you say, what

218
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 3: what does that mean? Well, there was a story in

219
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,760
Speaker 3: one of the major news magazines about a psychic experiment

220
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,320
Speaker 3: involving the USS Nouveilus, which of course was the first

221
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:17,280
Speaker 3: nuclear submarine that the United States was undertook to establish

222
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,760
Speaker 3: communications with submarines when they were submerged under the ice

223
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,920
Speaker 3: cap or whatever. And it turned out that that story

224
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:31,440
Speaker 3: probably wasn't true. But the Russians the Soviets heard about it.

225
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,800
Speaker 3: They believed it scared to be Jesus out of them,

226
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,880
Speaker 3: because if we could do that, then we had a

227
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,920
Speaker 3: major advantage over them, right, So they started experimenting with

228
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,800
Speaker 3: this stuff, and of course there were there were other

229
00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:47,080
Speaker 3: h what we would call paranormal phenomena that they had

230
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:52,120
Speaker 3: pursued also, and they had a major program in this.

231
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,440
Speaker 3: They were spending one hundred million dollars two hundred million

232
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,640
Speaker 3: dollars a whack on what we would call paranormal research,

233
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,160
Speaker 3: which is interesting because that puts into perspective one of

234
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,000
Speaker 3: the criticisms of the US program. You get a lot

235
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,960
Speaker 3: of the skeptics out there say, you guys wasted so

236
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:15,880
Speaker 3: much money on researching esp. Twenty twenty five million dollars. Well,

237
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 3: the Russians are spending hundreds of millions of dollars, and

238
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,600
Speaker 3: if you think about it, one F thirty five costs

239
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,520
Speaker 3: about I think they're down to about thirty five million. Now,

240
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:31,120
Speaker 3: one F thirty five fighter costs more than all the

241
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,160
Speaker 3: money that the US government put into ESPU research over

242
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,440
Speaker 3: more than a over a back quarter of a century work.

243
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,560
Speaker 3: It's just kind of mind boggling anyway. Yeah, so the

244
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,400
Speaker 3: Russians threw a whole lot of money into this, and

245
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,520
Speaker 3: the CIA, not realizing what had happened, suddenly discovered that

246
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:55,120
Speaker 3: they were doing a lot of research into these fields.

247
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,480
Speaker 3: And of course the CIA didn't necessarily believe it at all.

248
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,360
Speaker 3: There were some folks there who found it interesting, but

249
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,240
Speaker 3: their job is to go out and research stuff and

250
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 3: find out about stuff that could hurt United States security.

251
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 3: And if the Russians are spending a lot of money

252
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,080
Speaker 3: on this kind of thing, they must have had a reason.

253
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 3: And so the CIA was obligated to look into it.

254
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,120
Speaker 3: And so that's kind of how this thing got off

255
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 3: the ground in the first place.

256
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,760
Speaker 2: What kind of hits did your program develop and what

257
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,880
Speaker 2: kind of hits do you think the Russians got?

258
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,400
Speaker 3: You know, I can't speak to the Russians as far

259
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,600
Speaker 3: as I know none of the data from any of

260
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 3: their you know, in terms of any of their remote

261
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,720
Speaker 3: viewing attempts that has been released now as far as

262
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,840
Speaker 3: I know now, the real expert on that is a

263
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,640
Speaker 3: may and he's had a couple of exchange visits with

264
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,160
Speaker 3: them and has talked about some of the recent stuff

265
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,120
Speaker 3: they've been doing. But I haven't heard him say anything

266
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,600
Speaker 3: about what they accomplished, and they may well be close

267
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 3: lipped about that because they don't want us know all

268
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,160
Speaker 3: their secrets even now, especially now those things have turned

269
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 3: around there obviously, But with us, we've had some had

270
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 3: some really good successes. Now, I'm always quick to say

271
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,120
Speaker 3: it doesn't always work. You hear all the stories about

272
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 3: how successful was. You don't hear the stories about circumstances

273
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 3: or situations or projects where it failed. It's it did,

274
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,040
Speaker 3: it did, But we did have some really noted successes.

275
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,920
Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

276
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,880
Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam

277
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 1: dot com for more