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Speaker 1: There are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 2: As a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridget

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Speaker 2: Todd and this is there are no Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 2: So if your social media feed is anything like mine,

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Speaker 2: you've probably come across those posts that look like real news.

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Speaker 2: You know, the ones, flashy all cats headlines in stark

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Speaker 2: black and white graphets making some explosive claim, but they're

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Speaker 2: not actually news. Welcome to today's media landscape, where bloggers, influencers

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Speaker 2: and content creators can say just about anything, and if

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Speaker 2: it hits the right emotional nerve, it can go viral

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Speaker 2: whether it's true or not. And in the wake of

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Speaker 2: the trial of rapper and entrepreneur Sean Diddy Combs, that

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Speaker 2: dynamic has turned especially dangerous because one of the most

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Speaker 2: prominent women behind the scenes in entertainment is now being

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Speaker 2: targeted by a come completely false and deeply harmful lie

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Speaker 2: about Diddy's trial.

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Speaker 1: Meet Winter.

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Speaker 2: Winter got into media in the first place because she

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Speaker 2: cares about the truth.

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Speaker 1: I started out I wanted to be I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a journalist like I was. I felt like when

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Speaker 1: I was born that's what I wanted to do. And

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Speaker 1: I was I was really committed to, you know, even

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Speaker 1: as a kid, writing, creating stories, writing stories, and watching

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Speaker 1: the news.

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Speaker 2: Winter has worked in all facets of entertainment and media.

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Speaker 2: She's been a journalist, a podcaster, a writer, a brand strategist. Basically,

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Speaker 2: if it involves media and entertainment, she has done it.

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Speaker 1: I watched the news very young because I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a home where my parents were radicals. They were

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Speaker 1: you know, watching the news to have the fundamental understanding

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Speaker 1: of like what's going on and what was shaping the

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Speaker 1: culture and how that would influence me. My parents were

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Speaker 1: very involved and concerned about the future and how that

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Speaker 1: would affect my sister and I as two young black girls.

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Speaker 1: I was always fascinated by people's perspective and people's reaction

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Speaker 1: to trends and things that shifted in how we reacted

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Speaker 1: to it. And as I kept getting older, I kept

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Speaker 1: sort of staying in this trend of journalism. And then

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Speaker 1: I realized that the Internet was literally approaching so quickly

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Speaker 1: and Bridget when I tell you, like, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how old you are, but like the approach

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Speaker 1: of it. As a teenager who had really been brought

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Speaker 1: up and raised in a world that was very firmly analog.

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Speaker 1: It was trending towards technology, but the moment the Internet came,

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Speaker 1: it definitely felt like things just fast forwarded very quickly

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Speaker 1: and supercharged. So I, you know, moved to I worked

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Speaker 1: in news here, you know, sort of taking on odd

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Speaker 1: jobs and internships, not really going to school just because

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Speaker 1: I wanted to just jump into it. And I got

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Speaker 1: a job at NBC when I was was like seventeen,

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Speaker 1: and then I just completely left abandoned school after that,

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Speaker 1: and then I started working at like tech TV and

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Speaker 1: radio stations and magazines, and then I moved to LA

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Speaker 1: and the only everything that I'd read about, you know,

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Speaker 1: working in entertainment was that you have to work at

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Speaker 1: an agency. So I went to go work at William Morris.

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Speaker 1: That's where I moved to LA for. That's the job

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Speaker 1: I moved to LA for, because in order to work

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Speaker 1: in entertainment you kind of have to have this foundational

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Speaker 1: understanding of how the business works. Did that terribly, and

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Speaker 1: then I kept progressing upward into working at magazines.

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Speaker 2: Winter kind of saw where the Internet was headed as

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Speaker 2: it pertains to media and celebrity early on, so she

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Speaker 2: shifted her career around it and jumped on the wave.

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Speaker 1: Early in twenty eleven, I realized that the Internet was

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Speaker 1: too the presence was looming too large, and I just said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I could do this for people. I can

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Speaker 1: create news, I can push out news, distribute news, and

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Speaker 1: do it on behalf of a brand instead of working

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Speaker 1: for a brand that's dying in what it convert. You know,

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Speaker 1: us magazine, Okay magazine. I loved those experiences. It was

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Speaker 1: amazing working in those in those environments, but they were

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Speaker 1: not progressing fast enough for me in the digital space.

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Speaker 1: So I had to start to just sort of jumpstart

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Speaker 1: at myself. And that's where I've been what I've been

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Speaker 1: doing now for the last fifteen years, managing digital presences

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Speaker 1: for celebrities and brands.

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Speaker 2: I want to see a version of that documentary the

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Speaker 2: kid stays in the picture, but from your perspective of

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Speaker 2: all the different stories and entertainment, like, that's how I

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Speaker 2: think of you, the person who knows all about the

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Speaker 2: business of media and entertainment.

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Speaker 1: It's literally it's one of those things where I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad that I stuck with it because I wasn't actually

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Speaker 1: getting you get fed so many influences. Thank you Bridget

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Speaker 1: for those kind words. You don't you get influenced by

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Speaker 1: so many different perspectives and like this would be seductive

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Speaker 1: or this would be cool, and I realized I was like,

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Speaker 1: none of that stuff sounds cool. I like just being

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Speaker 1: in this lane. I don't don't want to You're not

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Speaker 1: following this train of thought. And I got in a

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Speaker 1: lot of trouble for being in this train of thought.

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Speaker 1: I got fired from William Morris for having a blog

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Speaker 1: about my you know, twenty five years ago, and now

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Speaker 1: they're putting assistance in Vanity Fair, Like I like, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like there's a whole blog dedicated

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Speaker 1: to being an assistant at an agency, and it's like

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Speaker 1: I was at the press of I literally started this.

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Speaker 1: And it's so funny because people talk about this now

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Speaker 1: when they see me. They were like, you're really ahead

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Speaker 1: of your time. I was like, yeah, I had to

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Speaker 1: take the blows for it, but I was ahead of

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Speaker 1: my time. And I think I've always been good at that,

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Speaker 1: being able to kind of foresee when something is shifting,

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Speaker 1: and I think we're deep in that now. I think

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Speaker 1: it is shifting very quickly, faster than when it shifted

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Speaker 1: from analog to digital, and I think that we have

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Speaker 1: a lot of challenges ahead for us in that. In

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Speaker 1: that sense, so.

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Speaker 2: I know there's probably someone listening wondering why are they

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Speaker 2: talking about entertainment media on a tech podcast? But entertainment

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Speaker 2: stories are media stories, their tech stories, their business stories.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever get the sense.

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Speaker 2: That people pooh pooh all of this as celebrity gossip

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Speaker 2: or just gossip more generally, even though we know that

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Speaker 2: entertainment touches so many important facets and leverages stakeholders across

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Speaker 2: all of these spaces. Well, you're right, and that's kind

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Speaker 2: of the reason why I was able to exist so

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Speaker 2: long in it because I wasn't like a gossip pound

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Speaker 2: in that sense.

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Speaker 1: I had relationships. So when I came into the business,

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Speaker 1: I already had relationships, which which was a coup for them.

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Speaker 1: But the one thing I can say is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: getting the information that I got that built the articles

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Speaker 1: that were published or reporting, A lot of that was

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Speaker 1: rooted in having a business mindset about it, looking at

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Speaker 1: the business mindset, looking at the business landscape and how

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Speaker 1: this would affect XYZ. And that kept me even if

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Speaker 1: I didn't have a story to publish that week, having

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Speaker 1: news about something that was happening inside of you know,

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Speaker 1: a studio decision that could affect that would ripple across

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Speaker 1: the industry, or something that is, you know, knowing that

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Speaker 1: you know, you're saying that so and so might be

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Speaker 1: hooking up and it's like that's crazy because they were

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Speaker 1: filming such and such over here with you know, all

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Speaker 1: these people that can't be true. Those were vital having

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Speaker 1: the script to something to verify that this scene takes place,

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Speaker 1: and this could create like a liaison that would be

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Speaker 1: interesting to the magazine. So like, I think there is

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Speaker 1: you know, reporting that I did always came from sourcing.

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Speaker 1: I sourced every single thing, and I didn't get just

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Speaker 1: one source. I would get three sources, and people would try,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was always a hater inside. He'd be

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Speaker 1: like fast and I didn't hear that. Well, I heard

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Speaker 1: it from three people and they're legitimate people and they

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Speaker 1: are they're my long term sources, and my editor confirmed it.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, like that's the problem. I think. I think

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Speaker 1: not having you know, these people that we're talking about

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Speaker 1: that we that I had to deal with over the

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Speaker 1: last two weeks. The saddest part of all of this

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Speaker 1: is that they don't have that experience. They just don't,

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Speaker 1: and you simply need it, they think, because everybody jumps

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Speaker 1: on and blind and and and and blind gossip and

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Speaker 1: you know all those those other you know, fake news,

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Speaker 1: foam wall, all of them have the ability to just

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Speaker 1: jump online and start spewing stuff. You don't understand what

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Speaker 1: it takes to get things verified, which is why the

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Speaker 1: blind gossip pages you know, are constantly being taken down

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Speaker 1: because you're constantly putting out informay or being threatened or

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Speaker 1: being sued because you haven't verified anything. You're editorializing and

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Speaker 1: making shit up. It's not moral and it's and it's

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Speaker 1: not legal to be honest. I'm so glad that you

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Speaker 1: brought this up.

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Speaker 2: I think in this day and age, we have forgotten

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Speaker 2: that there's a difference between entertainment journalists who know how

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Speaker 2: to check, know how to source stuff, and then people

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Speaker 2: who just get on TikTok, who get on whatever Instagram page.

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Speaker 2: They might have millions of followers and they'll just say whatever,

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Speaker 2: and those are It's two different things, right, Like people

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Speaker 2: used to dog on Wendy Williams, she knew how to

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Speaker 2: fact check right, like she knew how to like you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a difference between getting on TikTok and making essentially

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Speaker 2: fan fiction lying, even if that goes viral. And I

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Speaker 2: do think we're at a place where more and more

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Speaker 2: celebrities and also everyday people who have been defamed or

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Speaker 2: lied about, are taking those kinds of fabulous to court

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Speaker 2: and saying, hey, this is defamation.

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Speaker 1: You went on your YouTube channel and lied about me.

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Speaker 1: You didn't have a.

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Speaker 2: Source for any of this, it's not true. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: suit you, and you're gonna take it down. Let's be real.

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Speaker 2: Our current digital landscape have created a financial incentive for lies.

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Speaker 2: And it's not just the people who lie who profit,

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Speaker 2: it's also the platforms. For instance, after rapper Cardi B

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Speaker 2: won a defamation suit against youtubeer blogger Kasha K, YouTube

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Speaker 2: did not automatically remove videos even after the court deemed

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Speaker 2: them defammatory. Instead, Google, YouTube's parent company, continue to profit

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Speaker 2: off of those videos until finally sustained pressure from activists

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Speaker 2: compelled YouTube to take them down.

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Speaker 1: It should not be this difficult to take down this.

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Speaker 1: I also put the blame on the platforms. It should

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Speaker 1: not be this difficult to take down content that is

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Speaker 1: it not factual, And I think this is part this

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Speaker 1: is by design. They want it to be difficult because

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Speaker 1: they have to reap the benefits of the traffic and

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Speaker 1: the engagement in all of that that it brings, which

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Speaker 1: only benefits the blogger and the platform. The person actually

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Speaker 1: being harmed has to do more work to plead their case.

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Speaker 1: And I really, you know, champion like the Cardis and

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Speaker 1: the Megans in the world who are like standing on

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Speaker 1: business and going now, We're not going to be doing

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Speaker 1: that because the reality is is that I do think

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Speaker 1: we are going to get to a point when we

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Speaker 1: get out all of this madness where the lawlessness of

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Speaker 1: this current administration. But I do think because of what

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with with the way that the Internet is

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Speaker 1: the wild West and it has to be controlled, this

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Speaker 1: is kind of what the fight is about, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of what the fight is about. There

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Speaker 1: is a you know, billionaires who want to maintain the

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Speaker 1: purity of their platforms doing whatever the fuck that they want,

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Speaker 1: and we are the victims of that. And I really

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Speaker 1: really want to figure out and I don't know, and

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Speaker 1: this could take years. I could take me to my

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Speaker 1: dying day figure out how to transfer that energy into

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Speaker 1: a space where we go back to a Walter Cronkite

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Speaker 1: version of the world where you could say it, but

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Speaker 1: you need to prove it. And there was something so

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Speaker 1: beautiful in the proof of things.

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Speaker 2: I think Dan Rather and Walter Cronkite, and you know,

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Speaker 2: Ed Bradling, all these people like there was something so

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Speaker 2: beautiful in the proof in proving that they got this there.

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Speaker 2: And that is the other thing that I don't think

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Speaker 2: there's an automatic reward in getting fifty thousand likes on

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Speaker 2: a post, right you just that's that you're rewarded, monetarily

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Speaker 2: rewarded with ego. But there you will never know the

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Speaker 2: purity of getting breaking a piece of news and seeing

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Speaker 2: something that tumbles into a cover of a magazine or

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Speaker 2: a or a headline, that.

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Speaker 1: Trance that transfu travels far and wide. You will never

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Speaker 1: feel that joy because there will always be a part

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Speaker 1: of you in the back of your head going I

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Speaker 1: didn't I just kind of guessed it. And that is

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Speaker 1: just simply not however operated or would operate, to be honest,

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Speaker 1: which is why I correct so many people online even

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Speaker 1: if they get mad and want to call me names

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Speaker 1: and stuff. I don't get shit.

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Speaker 2: One of the names that Winter is being called on

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Speaker 2: the internet right now is that she was a juror

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Speaker 2: on Diddy's trafficking trial. It is not true, but we

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Speaker 2: will get into why the Internet thinks it is.

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Speaker 1: After a quick break.

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Speaker 2: At her back. You probably know by now that musician

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Speaker 2: and entrepreneur Sean P. Diddy Combs was arrested and facing

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Speaker 2: pretty serious allegations from sex trafficking to forced labor. After

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Speaker 2: a lengthy trial, he was only found guilty of much

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Speaker 2: lesser charges involving transporting people across state lines for sexual encounters.

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Speaker 2: In a Netflix documentary called Shawn Cobs The Reckoning, directed

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Speaker 2: by Alexandria Stapleton, an executive produced by one of Ditty's

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Speaker 2: biggest haters, rapper fifty Cent, attempts to map out a

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Speaker 2: portrait of Combs's alleged pattern of abuse and misconduct over

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Speaker 2: several decades, and one moment from the film quickly caught

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Speaker 2: the Internet's attention. An interview with jur number one sixty,

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Speaker 2: a black woman who openly spoke about growing up on

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Speaker 2: music associated with Ditty's career. In the interview, number one

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Speaker 2: sixty described being aware of Ditty's celebrity presence in the

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Speaker 2: courtroom and even recalled moments of eye contact what she

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Speaker 2: framed as shared can you believe this? Reactions with Ditty

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Speaker 2: as he sat on trial listening to women testify about

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Speaker 2: their experiences with him. Although jurors are expected to remain impartial,

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Speaker 2: the implication was hard to ignore to many viewers. Jural

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Speaker 2: number one sixty did not come across as a neutral observer,

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Speaker 2: but as someone visibly influenced by Ditty's fame. Online, Jura

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Speaker 2: number one sixty quickly became a symbol of how powerful

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Speaker 2: men like Ditty skirt accountability for so long, aided by admiration, proximity,

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Speaker 2: and celebrity culture. Now you might be wondering, okay, but

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Speaker 2: what does any of this have to do with Winter.

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Speaker 2: The answer is nothing, not a damn thing. But after

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Speaker 2: Winter recently shared an old photo of herself with Ditty

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Speaker 2: on social media, Internet sleuths wrongly decided that she must

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Speaker 2: be jur number one sixty and that that photo she

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Speaker 2: innocently shared was just another example of the way that

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Speaker 2: Dura number one sixty was a long time Ditty fan,

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Speaker 2: and just like that, Winter found herself at the center

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Speaker 2: of a harassment campaign over a trial she had absolutely

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with.

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Speaker 1: So let's let's talk.

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Speaker 2: About this, because you were at the center frankly like

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Speaker 2: a very wild campaign of lies online where some folks

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Speaker 2: have decided that you were a juror in the Sean

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Speaker 2: Diddy Coombs trial, that you were duror number one sixty.

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Speaker 2: So walk me through how you first realized that this

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Speaker 2: was a narrative starting online about you.

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Speaker 1: I think there was one poster where he posted it

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Speaker 1: and was just like really defiantly not A couple of

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Speaker 1: people took it down in the beginning, and I posted

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Speaker 1: the photo of me and so first I want to

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Speaker 1: clear this up. I post the photo of me and

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Speaker 1: Diddy because I was talking about in my stories how

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Speaker 1: I and I will send you a three shot of

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Speaker 1: that how it was an underwhelming experience, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of was before that experience had happened. I'd interviewed to

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Speaker 1: work I had Bad Boy when I was in like seventeen.

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Speaker 2: One of the many reasons why the claim that Winter

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Speaker 2: would have been chosen as a juror on Ditty's trial

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Speaker 2: makes no sense is that Winter actually interviewed to work

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Speaker 2: for Ditty's record label, Bad Boy Entertainment when she was

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Speaker 2: just starting out.

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Speaker 1: She remembers how odd the interview was.

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Speaker 2: She was expecting to meet Ditty at an office, but

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Speaker 2: instead she was asked to meet with Ditty at Justin's,

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Speaker 2: a soul food restaurant that Diddy owned in New York City.

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Speaker 1: Thank god that fell apart, and thank god it was

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Speaker 1: a really awful, weird, awkward experience where I definitely was

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Speaker 1: being like, I don't want to say groomed to do something.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't a typical thing. It wasn't like other

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Speaker 1: entrances where you they bring you into the office and

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Speaker 1: they're like hey, and like these are the people and

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Speaker 1: this is where you work. Usually when you're interviewing an internship,

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Speaker 1: they kind of give you the back, then they give

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Speaker 1: you the lay of the land and what your experience

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Speaker 1: could be like, and then you're excited and you want

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Speaker 1: to do it and work for free. And this was

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Speaker 1: much more like meet us at this restaurant and meet

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Speaker 1: us you know, yeah, like it was Justin's, by the way,

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Speaker 1: meet us at this restaurant. It was very like it

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Speaker 1: was it was just a very not professional situation. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I didn't really care and I didn't think

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Speaker 1: much more of it after that because I was underwhelmed.

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Speaker 1: And then to meet to I interviewed Diddy at at

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Speaker 1: the two thousand and nine BET Awards when I was working.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, okay, us, I can't remember, and I

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Speaker 1: remember just being like, what an underwhelming person? This outsize

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Speaker 1: personality and I and and that's why it's so funny.

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Speaker 1: In the documentary they talk about how he actually interacts

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Speaker 1: with African Americans and I'm like, yeah, that's the sense.

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Speaker 1: It's like he had to be there because he is

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Speaker 1: a black entertainer, but did he want to be around

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Speaker 1: all these black people? Not necessarily? And and that was

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Speaker 1: the and you got that sense. I don't want to again,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to put words or thoughts into what

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Speaker 1: did he might have been thinking at the time, but

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Speaker 1: I can say that it was an underwhelming experience. That's

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Speaker 1: not even the last time I saw him.

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Speaker 2: I saw him again at a concert and backstage and again,

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Speaker 2: and this was closer to all of this stuff falling apart.

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Speaker 1: So this is when I definitely think he knew somebody

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Speaker 1: was coming. And you want to talk about under underwoman

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Speaker 1: in two thousand.

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Speaker 2: And nine, it was even more hilarious to watch a

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Speaker 2: man who was under who is who.

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Speaker 1: Knows that the Feds are watching? And I'm like saying

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Speaker 1: to myself, you know, like all that bravado, all that bravado,

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Speaker 1: all that you know, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, King of New York shit, and he's literally backstage

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Speaker 2: in a very secured area and looking around and can't

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Speaker 2: stand still. So like, I always just felt like, you know,

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Speaker 2: part of my job is being in front of a

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Speaker 2: lot of big personalities like this and you can't help

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Speaker 2: but observe.

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Speaker 1: And he's one of the ones where the energy was

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Speaker 1: always dark. So so I post the photo. I should

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Speaker 1: have given more context. That is the one mistake that

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Speaker 1: I think that I made, and I suddenly wake up

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Speaker 1: the next day. I didn't think any much of it

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Speaker 1: that day. I was like, just take it down. Then

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Speaker 1: the next day it's just like further and then I started.

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Speaker 1: This is when I knew it was bad. I'm hearing

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Speaker 1: from people I haven't spoken to you since elementary school.

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Speaker 1: I'm hearing from people that I you know, family members,

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Speaker 1: my parents, like my sister, like, I'm hearing from people

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Speaker 1: that don't typically like it has traveled far and wide.

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Speaker 1: So now I'm getting pissed because now it's like, I

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Speaker 1: know that I work on the internet, and I know

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Speaker 1: if they're hearing about it, then everybody is going to

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Speaker 1: hear about it shortly, right, And I know that it's

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Speaker 1: traveled further than just the threads. It's now gone from

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Speaker 1: threads to you know, TikTok to Instagram, to Facebook to Twitter.

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Speaker 1: And that is when I got really mad.

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Speaker 2: Because it was already proven within that day that I

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Speaker 2: am not her.

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Speaker 1: I'd already said it, and yet they kept saying it.

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Speaker 1: And then I kept saying to myself, how do you

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Speaker 1: think that, Why would you think that I would not

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Speaker 1: say I am that person? And that it wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: already been reported. It would not be it would have

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Speaker 1: already been pushed out through larger platforms, you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: verified news outlets, the tmzs, the People's And then I said,

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Speaker 1: they're not going to cover it, And that also kind

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Speaker 1: of made me mad because I can't get them to.

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Speaker 1: I have friends on all these places. I can't get

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Speaker 1: them to report a fake news story and say that

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Speaker 1: it's true because I A. I don't want it further

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Speaker 1: out and B it's I shouldn't have to do that.

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to do it. My word should be

387
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Speaker 1: bond and it didn't matter. And would upset me the

388
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Speaker 1: most is that it was mostly black bloggers. It was

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Speaker 1: mostly black bloggers. It wasn't like, you know, Maga, this

390
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 1: was not a Maga hit job. It was mostly black bloggers.

391
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Speaker 1: So instead of taking me by my word using Google,

392
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,120
Speaker 1: you can google me and see that this is this

393
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Speaker 1: is my look, this is my look, this is you know,

394
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,959
Speaker 1: it's my integram page is public, you know, my threads.

395
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 1: You could read down threads and see me talking. No research,

396
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Speaker 1: no nothing, just I'm gonna go with this, and very

397
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 1: defiantly so, and I was. I just feel bad for them.

398
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: I feel bad for them, like I have pity because

399
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Speaker 1: they're so stupid and also so manipulative that they would

400
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 1: rather be wrong for clicks than be right. And that's

401
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 1: gonna be the that's gonna be their entire like, that's

402
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: gonna be their entire like brand. You know, they don't

403
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 1: realize that that's actually just a detriment to their growth.

404
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: You can't just walk away from lying about shit. And

405
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 1: then and some of these people want to be comedians

406
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: and and and and and and stand up do stand

407
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: up in movies. It's like that. It's like I work

408
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: in this business. If I see you, I'll say something

409
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 1: so like you don't understand how small it is. I'll

410
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 1: never forget their faces. I'll never forget their names. I

411
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 1: have like saved everything. I don't know when I'm going

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Speaker 1: to strike. That's the other thing. I have a business,

413
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: so I don't know when I'm going to strike. Bridget

414
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 1: I might wake up tomorrow and and just strike. You

415
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: never know. That's that would make me nervous. But they're

416
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Speaker 1: going to be defiant and think what they want. Yeah,

417
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Speaker 1: this first of all, this could not have happened.

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Speaker 2: There's almost an irony to it because not that it

419
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Speaker 2: should be happening to anybody, but this could not have

420
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Speaker 2: happened to like a more visible, more connected kind of person.

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Speaker 2: So that I find that very I don't know, it's

422
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Speaker 2: just like nobody should have to go through it. But

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Speaker 2: if all the people to pick to target in this way,

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Speaker 2: you I find, Yeah, there's almost an irony to but.

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Speaker 1: I guess is what I'm saying. It's an irony to it,

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Speaker 1: but it's also not surprising and not the most extreme

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Speaker 1: thing that's ever happened to me, which is why I

428
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: was able to deal with it. I was annoyed, for sure,

429
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Speaker 1: I was pissed, but I was able to deal with

430
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Speaker 1: it because I have dealt with worse. This is not

431
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Speaker 1: the most extreme thing that's ever happened to me, and

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Speaker 1: it's also not the most extreme thing I've ever had

433
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Speaker 1: to work with in the workplace. I work with people

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Speaker 1: that I've had really intense scenarios happen, and I have

435
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: worked help supported them and working through it, and I've

436
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 1: watched it, and I also know that these things die down. Unfortunately,

437
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: we've had some really horrible things happened since, so the

438
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: importance of it, at least in my frame of reference,

439
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: is no longer where it was. But I think that,

440
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: you know, a combination of all of these things that

441
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: are happening and all this stuff that's happened, and the

442
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: way the Internet reacts to news is a thing that's

443
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,479
Speaker 1: up for debate that I wish there was someone who

444
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 1: can kind of step in, and we don't have. You know,

445
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 1: the credibility of news organizations. Every single news organization, whether

446
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: they're you're on their side or not, are corrupted, and

447
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: it's just hard to know who to lean on, you know,

448
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: that would actually support some preservation of accuracy and and

449
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: in news reporting. I mean, I just think that it's

450
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: becoming a bygone era. Unfortunately, Diddy's trial was a huge story.

451
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: It was all over the news, all over the media.

452
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: If a juror in that trial had been credibly proven

453
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: to I've had this level of prior relationship with Diddy

454
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: where they had been photographed together and have met, don't

455
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: you think media outlets.

456
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 2: Would have covered it and followed up on it. It's

457
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 2: like the people who believe this and that are spreading

458
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: this online, they're not willing to engage critically with this

459
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 2: at all, because that's how much they need for this

460
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: story to be true. There's kind of another weird dynamic

461
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 2: happening here too, because the people who are smearing and

462
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: lying about Winter are doing it to support this broader

463
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 2: claim that did he got a light sentence because the

464
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 2: jury was full of people who liked him or who

465
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 2: were dazzled by a celebrity. And look, I need to

466
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 2: say I hate Diddy. I've hated him for a really

467
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 2: long time, even before all of this, so I obviously

468
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 2: don't disagree with this instinct to interrogate power and celebrity,

469
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 2: but I found myself in this bizarre position arguing with

470
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: people who are spreading outright lies about someone, an incredibly

471
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 2: talented black woman like Winter no Less, who didn't do

472
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: anything wrong in service of something I ostensibly should agree with.

473
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: That Diddy did get too light of a sentence and

474
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 2: that his celebrity probably did impact that. And it really

475
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: just clicked for me why we cannot tolerate lies or disinformation,

476
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 2: even when they're deployed in service of things we kind

477
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 2: of agree with, because not only do they poison the argument,

478
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 2: they end up targeting people who had absolutely nothing to

479
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: do with it.

480
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: So where did I work out all these feelings? On Reddit?

481
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 2: Of course, where I became a one woman army trying

482
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 2: to correct the record. Winter was there too, trying to

483
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 2: clear her name. It's funny because you and I cross paths,

484
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 2: and it's the most cringey thing that happens when it's like, oh,

485
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 2: this was me on Reddit. I when I saw this

486
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 2: taking off on Reddit, I was like, I am personally

487
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: going to reply to I'm pushing alive and.

488
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: The people's replies.

489
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: Though it's like it's because Diddy, like it's like the

490
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: I guess it really reveals conspiratorial thinking because the fact

491
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 2: that nobody was writing about it to them became evidence

492
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: of its truth. Like, oh well, that shows how good

493
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: she is at like controlling the media. And I'm thinking,

494
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 2: what the fuck are you talking about? Like you could

495
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 2: look at her public profile, like do you think that

496
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 2: she has somehow tricked Google into faking this stuff like that?

497
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying is that, like, yeah, it's

498
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 2: crazy making to try to to get through to some

499
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: of these people.

500
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: Yes, they weren't trying to hear it, even when I

501
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,239
Speaker 1: jumped in there in a throwaway and they were like,

502
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: so you know how a screenshot? I was like, are

503
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: you I posted the response and the reply and into

504
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: this within seconds. Do you think that there's like some

505
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: you know, minority report Tom Cruise thing.

506
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 2: Happening where I'm able to with my mind transfer you're

507
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 2: delusional and crazy. That's when I just started saying to myself,

508
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is nuts and oh my god,

509
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 2: this is nuts. Because then my other main conser was

510
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: like my client seeing it, and I think when every

511
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: single one of them called me and made fun of me.

512
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: And every single one of them called me and made

513
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: fun of me about this, and that literally made me

514
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: feel so much better about it, because they have all

515
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: been criticized and had lies about them and had things

516
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: made up in papers and covers and narratives and have

517
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: run them off the internet and got them back. So

518
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: so I was like, Okay, so this is to me

519
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: like some initiation period. This is like some hazing for

520
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: something bigger, and I have to treat it like that,

521
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: because I think once people did start googling me, they

522
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: did start thinking that, like you just said that I

523
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: was a plant and I was a perfect I was

524
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: a perfect victim in all of this, and it's like

525
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: I've been in California my whole life. I don't sound

526
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: like her at all. I don't think a juror would

527
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: treat me trying to. I don't know many jurors, honestly.

528
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: I can't really think of one that has tried to

529
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: capitalize off anything beyond being in a documentary. I don't know.

530
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: I don't see jurors selling like you know, duror merchandise

531
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: and cotton.

532
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: Now.

533
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: I just don't think that that is. There's no there's

534
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: no runway for that. So I don't know why I

535
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: would implode my entire business over that. I also would

536
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: never serve jury duty. That's a little exclusive for you. Sorry,

537
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: I just don't have I gotten the notices. You'll never know.

538
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: I don't. I just don't. I won't, you know what

539
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: I mean?

540
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: Like I yeah, Like, Also, they can't prove if they

541
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 2: if they don't send it certified mail, they can't prove

542
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 2: that you actually got it. That's a little tip exactly.

543
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: They can that what you will, but they can't prove it.

544
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: They can't prove it. They can't prove it. They can't

545
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 2: prove I got it. They can't prove I got it.

546
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: You know. It's not like I don't care about the

547
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: judicial system.

548
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: But again, I will say, the conspiracy theorist in me

549
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: is that everything is corrupted.

550
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: So what is my what? What does me spending fourteen

551
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: to thirty days getting paid five bucks a day, which

552
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: is out honestly not even it means anything because the

553
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: parking is fourteen a day, So I'm actually paying into my.

554
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: Misery, No fucking way, that's nine. That actually is absurd.

555
00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: So I won't be doing that.

556
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: And so that's just like there were so many things

557
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: about it that it was like, I would never do this.

558
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: I would never serve in a jury. I would never

559
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: if I did serve in a jury, go in a

560
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: documentary and talk about serving on the jury. There's just

561
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: things that I wouldn't do, and this is one of them.

562
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: I would just not do that. But I also just

563
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: am not that person. Also, Yeah, I mean you would

564
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: know if you hadn't bet.

565
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: That's I mean, that's the thing there is, And I

566
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: don't feel like watching you interact in that thread on Reddit.

567
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 2: There's nothing that you could say that would make these

568
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: people believe the truth. You could, you could you could

569
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: have a document that was like Winter was in a

570
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: coma during the trial. Here is that information, and they

571
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: would still figure something out to say of like w

572
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: it's so there is there's almost no sense of trying

573
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:47,719
Speaker 2: to correct the record.

574
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: It's just you just have to get it taken down.

575
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: There's no there's no there's nothing you could say.

576
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 2: There's you can say no, And that's kind of like,

577
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: you know, it's interesting we're talking about this because it's

578
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: happening now in the Rob Reiner situation, which is.

579
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: Horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, and there's this race to be first.

580
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: And I learned a lot about this before it became

581
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: public because of my circle, and there was no desire

582
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: for me to race to to correct records. It's not

583
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: my story to tell, it's not my story to share.

584
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 1: And it's actually really brutal and horrible what happen. And

585
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: that's not my brand. I don't need to, you know,

586
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: leave that for the yeshar Ali's and stuff like that.

587
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: Like I'm not the one to be first to the

588
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: to the record on something I don't care. I'm not

589
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: a journalist anymore, and that's not my brand. My brand

590
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: online is just being a conversationalist, a critique of things

591
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: that are interested me, you know, and being a commentator.

592
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: But I am not a journalist. And that is the problem, Bridget,

593
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: is that there's a difference between commentating and actually reporting

594
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 1: news and me having a comment on something is I

595
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: recognize that some people will take it as as fact

596
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: and everything like that. So it is my responsibility to

597
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: be accurate in what I say right and and correct

598
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: my record if I'm wrong. But I am not a journalist,

599
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: which is why I take you know, I pull journalists

600
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: a lot from my bios because I just you know,

601
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: I was, and I say former, but I'm not currently,

602
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: so I'm not gonna you know, I don't want I

603
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: want people to know the difference between it. I think

604
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: the word journalism has lost all meeting because of shit

605
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: like this, and I fully blame it's squarely on Trump,

606
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: on Trump.

607
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: More. After a quick break, let's get right back into it.

608
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: When you look at who is sitting in the White

609
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: House Press briefing room, it's it's no, it's there are

610
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: some journalists there still, but now it's it's the tim

611
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 2: pools of the world.

612
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: It's people who are podcasters, bloggers.

613
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 2: And I do think we've just completely conflated and blown

614
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: up what these different roles are. If you're an influencer

615
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: or a contact writer, no like, no shade. We I

616
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: think that those are voices are can be very important

617
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: and very useful, but that's different than somebody who's a journalist.

618
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: And I just think that we have we stopped asking those.

619
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 2: Questions about who is who, and we've all just decided

620
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 2: it's all one and the same.

621
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: When it's not. It's not. Being a content creator is

622
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: not journalism. When I when I was a kid, and

623
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: I was working in on these internships and I wanted to,

624
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: you know, make news. I was you know, they they

625
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: they they I got the hard questions asked to me.

626
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: I got stuff killed, you know, things they would kill

627
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: certain stories so they didn't have any juice or it

628
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: had no merit, or it didn't make any any it

629
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: didn't make sense. It didn't it didn't come together the

630
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: way they wanted. And that was part of the learning.

631
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: That was part of the learning of knowing what is

632
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: the news? What's news here? Having an editor say, so,

633
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: what's the news? What here is of interest?

634
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: And then the first story I broke, The first story

635
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: I broke when I was eighteen years old, was Courtney

636
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: Cox and David Arquett getting married in San Francisco for

637
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 2: kron It was the kicker at the end of the newscast.

638
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: And I stood there, having already now been through all

639
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:23,479
Speaker 2: of this training with some.

640
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: Of the report journalists and reporters and anchors I grew

641
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: up watching from the time I was a baby. This

642
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: is a perfect example. I was at the Nordstrom counter

643
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: and down in San Francisco Center on Market Street getting

644
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: some makeup, and because I was working in a professional setting,

645
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: and I was just I was like, I need to

646
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: step my makeup up. So I was getting color matched

647
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: and I go I love this brand, and the makeup

648
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: artist goes, you know everybody less's brain. You know who

649
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: was in here yesterday, Courtney Cox And I was like,

650
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: oh my god, I love her. And he's like, she's like, yeah,

651
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: she's getting married at I forget the church. She's getting

652
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 1: married here tomorrow. And her makeup artists and her were

653
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: here like doing color matches and swatches. That's a tip.

654
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: So then I start calling everybody that I know in

655
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: the that I know at the news station and say like,

656
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: who like the assignment deak, editor and and and my mentor,

657
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: And I go, okay, I got a tip. And they

658
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: were like they're covering hard news. They were like, go

659
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: report it, go report it, go report it out. So

660
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 1: I couldn't call the church and say, hey, is Courtney

661
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: Hanson David Okay getting married there today? And that wouldn't

662
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: have worked. So what did I do? I went to

663
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: the assignment desks and say, I need a camera. I

664
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: need I need a cameraman and I we're gonna stand

665
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 1: out in Grace Cathedral're gonna stand in front of Grace Cathedral.

666
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: All day stood in front of Grace Cathedral, and I

667
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: remember thinking, if this doesn't come together, because there was nothing,

668
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: there was no activity happening.

669
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 2: There was no activity happening. Bridget We were standing there.

670
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: The sun's also about to go down. And the next thing,

671
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: I see another camera come up. And then I see

672
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: another camera come up, and it's at the other news

673
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: stations because they also too got the tip and or

674
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: got a tip somehow. And then the next thing, you know,

675
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 2: here comes these SUVs and it's Brad Pitt and Jennifer

676
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 2: Aniston and you know, Lisa Kudro and every and everybody's

677
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 2: coming and the archettes and we got like ten seconds

678
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: of video of everybody got Brad Pitt waving and walking

679
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 2: into the church, and I reported, I sent my script in.

680
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: The anchor reported, and I'm getting emotional because that was

681
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 2: the best day of my life.

682
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: That's when I said, I know I can do this.

683
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: I know I can do this. What did that feel

684
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: like like?

685
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: What did it feel like for Young Winter being the

686
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 2: first one having knowing the follow up on that tip

687
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 2: from a girl who were buying makeup from and then

688
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 2: that becomes a big story.

689
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: What did that feel like? It felt incredible? I felt

690
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: really I taped it imber.

691
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 2: I taped the newscast that night and watched it for

692
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 2: days VHS best Play for.

693
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: Days because I couldn't believe. I remember the anchor who

694
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: did it. I'm gonna get so emotional turning me and

695
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: he's like, that was a good job. You did a

696
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: great job. After the newscast, and I just thought, I

697
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: can do this. I have I have a nose for news.

698
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: People trust, I have a trusting face. Charlie Sheen told

699
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 1: me that you have a trusting face. And I know

700
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: how to get people to come to h disarm themselves

701
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: and kind of give me info, and I know what

702
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: to do with it in how to be responsible. I

703
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: sit on a throne of tea. There's certain things I

704
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: would tell somebody and and there's some things I would

705
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: never that nobody will ever hear from me. But I

706
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: knew exactly what to sort of what I think was

707
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: the story and entertainment. You kind of just need the story.

708
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: You don't need the whole like landscape, and and some

709
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:53,439
Speaker 1: you do.

710
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 2: I think when you're reporting on news and politics that

711
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 2: you need to get wet, What did the room feel like?

712
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: What the like? When you're talking about a magazine, you

713
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: do need to know it. She was sitting by the pool.

714
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: She had a sad look on her face after reading

715
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: her phone. But if it's tabloid journalism, they just want

716
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 1: like boom boom boom. And when I worked at US,

717
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: that was like the it was trailing off. But that

718
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: was like the era of like really good, fun, juicy,

719
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: scoopy stuff. And now it's just it's not their fault.

720
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: One of my good friends is the editor in chief

721
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: of US, and it's not his fault. It is just

722
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: the way the world has gone. People like me have

723
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: disrupted this space because I don't My clients don't need

724
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: to talk to us. They can just post it that

725
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: they're having a baby, they can just post that they're

726
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: getting a divorce. They can just post that they're starting

727
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: a new show. They don't really need to deal with

728
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: them for that kind of information. Yes, but it.

729
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 2: Does sort of make me sad that we live in

730
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 2: a culture and a media climate where what you've just

731
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 2: described of having a nose for new sniffing something out,

732
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 2: it coming to get getting told, getting the add a

733
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 2: boy or at a girl from you know, a higher up.

734
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 2: People who get on the Internet and just make shit

735
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: up will never have that. They'll never know that, they'll

736
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 2: never know what that feels like to actually do reporting,

737
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 2: to get something pretty juicy out there and have the

738
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 2: receipts and the proof to.

739
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: Back it up. They won't, And they've actually flooded the

740
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: market so much that is diluted when it does happen,

741
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. It's that's why I got out.

742
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: When I got out because I saw it. I saw

743
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: that it was becoming a Kardashianified way of entering this

744
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: space when I wanted to do the Oprah version of

745
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: this space, and it just wasn't going to happen.

746
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 2: I didn't see a runway for it. I didn't see

747
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: a world where this was going to become a situation

748
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 2: that wasn't going to be like, you know, chili out

749
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: of a pot. There's no way to get all the

750
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: chili back into the pot there. It's just corrupted. And

751
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 2: I feel that way.

752
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: I hate it because I work with these platforms and

753
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: I don't trust these platforms. I don't trust Instagram. They

754
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 1: lie to us all the time. They lied to my clients.

755
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: I remember one of my clients was at the Paris Olympics,

756
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: was posting on the Paris Olympics, had posted the opening

757
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: ceremony because.

758
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: She was there, and they took down her content. And

759
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 2: we kept saying, why did you take down her content?

760
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 2: Why did you take down her content?

761
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: She was in.

762
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,919
Speaker 2: Paris, goes to Paris every year, It's documented on our page.

763
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 2: She is a big celebrity, Emmy winning all of the

764
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: sudd uh. They would not answer us.

765
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: Finally, I said, I need an answer right now, because

766
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: we are asking questions or somebody above me is going

767
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: to like her attorney's gonna ask. NBC took the content

768
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: down so NBC has more say in what someone's lived

769
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: experience in this moment, this spectacular moment. The NBC can decide.

770
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 1: And you weren't gonna tell us for weeks until we

771
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: told you you better tell us before we get our

772
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: interneys involved. What the fuck is wrong with them?

773
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 2: Like, what the fuck is wrong with you if you

774
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 2: don't have the infrastructure to deal and work with, especially

775
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 2: talent of this caliber, and say hey, sorry, we had

776
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 2: to take this down.

777
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: Here's why NBC decided, La Lah, Where did you know,

778
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: they disabled her account and it made it so we

779
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: couldn't post anything for three days. So you're disrupting her

780
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: flow of business because your flow of business is so

781
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: imbalanced and disorganized, you know what I mean. Like, and

782
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 1: that's to me, the disrespect of the Internet is just pervasive.

783
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: It's not just calling me Durer one sixty, which fuck

784
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: all those people.

785
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 2: They're all idiots, under educated, stupid and really really really cruising.

786
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 1: For a bruising. We are so close to some of

787
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: these people getting into serious trouble, losing their livelihoods. I

788
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,240
Speaker 1: would never play that game. I would never play that game.

789
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: And I think that because there's no regulations and rules

790
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: around it, or there's no systems that are to support,

791
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 1: you know, things being accurate. I think that we will

792
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: see something like that in the very near future.

793
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's the thing is like it's

794
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 2: really not a game. This is people's real lives, people's

795
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: real livelihood.

796
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: And I agree with you.

797
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: I think we have gotten close. I will never know

798
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 2: how close we have gotten. Things really escalating, but like

799
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: people have been sued and like.

800
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: Lost their entire livelihood.

801
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, are going to be paying restitution for the rest

802
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: of their lives because of stuff they got on the

803
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: internet and said, and I don't think people really truly

804
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 2: understand the stakes here. And I think, as you said,

805
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 2: that the media climate that we live in, where everybody's

806
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: thirsting to be first, we have replaced things like proof

807
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 2: with engagement and vibes and whether or not something gets

808
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,919
Speaker 2: a lot of likes and travels far and wide.

809
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: You know. And I do wonder.

810
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: I don't even know how to ask this, but you know,

811
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: I wonder if what's happening with these lies about you

812
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: being Dura one sixty kind of mirrors this dynamic more generally,

813
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: like the film, the Netflix documentary The Reckoning, I think

814
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: that there are people who want to hear the stories

815
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: of survivors and victims, right, But then there are people

816
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 2: who just want drama. They just want fifty cent versus ditty,

817
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 2: juicy feud on screen. And so I think that, like

818
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: we just see a lot of black women kind of

819
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: becoming collateral damage for the sake of the hunger for

820
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: a juicy story, right.

821
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: And so I don't think people see you or.

822
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 2: Some of the women who shared their stories or were

823
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: people that shared their stories in the documentary. I don't

824
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 2: necessarily know what they see them as real people who

825
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: have real lives, if it is in service of like

826
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 2: this larger, juicy story that they just want to be told,

827
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 2: does does that make sense?

828
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: I think it's also just a maybe the storytelling wasn't

829
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: maybe the storytelling the story. Look, the documentary was definitely

830
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: manipulated to fit a narrative in that way, and it

831
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: was designed to be like tawdry and juicy. I mean,

832
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: my jaw was on the floor most the time, My

833
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: job was poor most of the time. And even you know,

834
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: there were a lot of things I obviously knew, you know,

835
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: about the creation a bad boy and how he came

836
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: to be, and I knew all that stuff from just

837
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: having grown up in it, but like, do we ever

838
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: get you know? I watched a documentary about She's Saying

839
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 1: Goodbye Horses, Hugh Lazarus, and that was to me one

840
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: of the first times I'd ever seen a documentary frame

841
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: a black woman in all of her the good, the bad,

842
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: the ugly, in a way that felt well rounded and

843
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: felt like a like a beautiful picture of a woman

844
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: just trying. And I don't think that it's interesting too,

845
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: It's I noticed that it stopped being interesting for people

846
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: once they saw my page. Once I let people because

847
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 1: I prevated my page to figure out how I'm going

848
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: to respond to this, and then I put up a

849
00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 1: series of stories, and the stories sort of basically explain

850
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: that I wrote an essay and then explain like there's

851
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 1: no way I live here, and there's no way I

852
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 1: was there on the day that the decision was made,

853
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: because I was in o Hi, and there was no

854
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: way I was at this. And I think because I

855
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: was in Denver giving a speech and and so like

856
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: I was, if I were a drawer, I would have

857
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: been a bad drawer because I was never around. But

858
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: I think that it's more it got boring for them

859
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: when I was just they were like, oh, I think

860
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: there's two things about a bridget. I think it got

861
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: boring for them when they realized I wasn't going to

862
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: stop saying I'm not that person. And then it got

863
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: annoying for them when they realized that I am literally

864
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: a fucking bad bitch. So there's like it's you know

865
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: what I mean, So it's like, oh, you know, it

866
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: just it just became like a snore for them, And

867
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: I was like I'm glad that everybody like a lot.

868
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: But what it did is it for me to respond

869
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: that manner is like, I just reinforced the narrative that

870
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: I was not her and that I also have a

871
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: lot going on. That's really fucking cool that you could

872
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: talk about that is not this And you don't have to,

873
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: but you can you, but you do have to stop.

874
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,439
Speaker 2: Saying that I'm her and and no shade to her,

875
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: she's she's just goofy, but also assuming that i'd be

876
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: as goofy as her when I literally am like the

877
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 2: least goofy bitch around in that sense, It's like, that's

878
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 2: also insulting.

879
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 1: You're insulting my intelligence. You're insulting my intelligence. I would

880
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's why I'm saying I

881
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: could never have been on that jury because there's just nothing.

882
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: There's no there there for me. I have no poker face.

883
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: I would have been mean, I.

884
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: Would have been like, eh, like every every time something

885
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: gonna revealed, I'm like, I just don't have a poker face.

886
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 2: I'm also too deep in the in the in the

887
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 2: business to have been able to be objective about anything.

888
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: I just couldn't.

889
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 2: I've worked for one of his ex girlfriends, like I

890
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: cannot be objective.

891
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 1: I don't, there's no objectivity. They're just it would never work.

892
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 2: Gosh, I have to This is a little bit of

893
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 2: a side note, speaking of all the bad bitchery that

894
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: you do and encompass in your life. People don't understand

895
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 2: you have a picture wearing the Daft punk helmets. That

896
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: is like I have told I was just talking to

897
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 2: my cousin at a bar over the weekend, and I

898
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 2: was like, you don't understand what that fucking means.

899
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: Like shit, my god, I never really need to understand.

900
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: I didn't know that that would be like such a

901
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: big deal, And that's probably why he was, like, my

902
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: friend who owns the helmet, he just he owns one

903
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: of the helmets. He used to be at a music

904
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: executive at Disney. He was I'm sure he was, like

905
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: he knew that. But I'm so glad that it's been

906
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: like I don't know how long I think it's been

907
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: like seventeen years since I took that picture. I'm so

908
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 1: glad that he told me never to post it because

909
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: it means more now to me, Bridget than it meant

910
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:56,479
Speaker 1: when I first took it because that is some iconic shit.

911
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: You just see daft punk helmet in a Diane vun

912
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: first and rap dress just like just like or spank

913
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,479
Speaker 1: stress or whatever. It was just sitting in the Hollywood Hills.

914
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: I mean that is.

915
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 2: Literally my life. Hi, I could never be Juror one sixty.

916
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: She could never be me like that.

917
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: Just that's my life. It's like the forest gumpiest of

918
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: all the shit.

919
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: Is a lot of these moments, to be honest, and

920
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: that's what's annoying me too, is like I don't know

921
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 2: that I.

922
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: Can post more pictures because of these clowns. They're gonna

923
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: take this picture and you know, start making like fan

924
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: fiction about other pictures of me and other people. I

925
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: don't think so, but it's just like, you know, they

926
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: ruined that that that so now I have to write

927
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: a book so they can just be in a book

928
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: and so I can fucking read it. Yes, I know,

929
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: you're like one of many. I really need to get

930
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 1: on that. Yes, get I appreciate everybody who has been

931
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: vocal and saying that it's not me and just you know,

932
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: direct them to my Instagram. They'll all will.

933
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 2: Be revealed there. My entire I made a highlight. This

934
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 2: is so pathetic. I made a highlight of.

935
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: Not the juror is the name of the highlight? And

936
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: I had.

937
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: To because I was like, I don't want this on

938
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 2: my feed. This is crazy, And I also just wanted

939
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 2: it to.

940
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: Be there, to set it and forget it, you know,

941
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: because I also didn't want this. The one thing I

942
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: will say is I did not want this to dominate

943
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: my holiday. I did not want this to dominate the

944
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: conversations I'm having with people. I just didn't want to

945
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: talk about it anymore because I really don't think that

946
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: this story, you know is I have crazier stories, and

947
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: I don't want it to be defined by this, and

948
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: I don't think I will be.

949
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 2: But I also didn't want there to an assumption that

950
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 2: I would take clout for it, like the guy who

951
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 2: the guy who dresses up as Michael Jackson and modified

952
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 2: his face as Michael Jackson was upset and critiquing the

953
00:49:58,480 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson.

954
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: Trailer and there looking for cloud like that is a

955
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,839
Speaker 1: person who needs to have a conversation with someone about that.

956
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: That's not me. I'm not going to start finding a

957
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: way to turn this. I don't need this to turn

958
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: this into currency for anything. That's the other thing I

959
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 1: think is annoying is like one of these bloggers was like,

960
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: I will be able to go on a cruise with

961
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: this post, and I was like, a cruise.

962
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 2: That's so sad, Like that is really you needed to

963
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 2: tear somebody down for a cruise.

964
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: You're pathetic, Like I would a never be on a cruise.

965
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 1: Just another list of laundry, list of things I will

966
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: not do, and that's cruise cruises. You know, I have taste.

967
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: I don't like. That's really weird. And and just you know,

968
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: just at Winter on Instagram. Just at them and say

969
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 1: that's not her. If you choose to, you also could

970
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: just not engage. They don't need the engagement. They don't

971
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 1: need any of this reinforcement. They don't need anything. They

972
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 1: need to get lives for sure, but they don't need

973
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, they don't need anything. I have a huge,

974
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: you know, support system.

975
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 2: I got calls from you'd be a lot of people,

976
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 2: a lot of people in the industry, a lot of

977
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 2: people who are close to that documentary, a lot of

978
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 2: people that are work at Netflix.

979
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: I got calls from a lot of people, So it

980
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,919
Speaker 1: wasn't just like friends or colleagues. I got a lot

981
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 1: of calls, so you know, everybody's pretty aware of how

982
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: the how stupid this was. It was the people that

983
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: don't know how to read, write, or comprehend or you know,

984
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: have any like ability to sort of dissect something and

985
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,439
Speaker 1: you know, double check and double back and google. People

986
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: who don't need to google, or maybe they just use

987
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: being I don't know, but I just you know, what

988
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 1: can you say? This is the world we live in,

989
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: this is the this is Trump's America. Last thing I'll

990
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: say is I really want to I really want to

991
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: start examining and exploring, and I want people to do that,

992
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 1: sort of like how you get your news. I think

993
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: I have a tip. This is a tip I think

994
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,399
Speaker 1: for twenty twenty six. Really start going through who you're

995
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: following and where you're getting your information, and how it

996
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 1: makes you feel after you consume it, and really start

997
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 1: spending and maybe like every day just removing bullshit from

998
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: your environment.

999
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 2: I'm a victim of it too. I'm in two smart groups.

1000
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with them.

1001
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: But I also think like the negativity is getting to

1002
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: be annoying. And I also think that we've already kind

1003
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: of gone through the same conversation over and over again.

1004
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: So if that is taking time away from you to

1005
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: be the type of person that is productive and informed

1006
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: and more learned in something, and something is taking away

1007
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: from that, an account of interest or whatever, just remove it.

1008
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: I think we need to start. I think we've we've

1009
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: gotten our fill on a lot of things. And I

1010
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: think the mass consumption of bullshit is by design, and

1011
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 1: we need to start putting guardrails around our mental health

1012
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 1: and our energy for that. And I and I encourage people.

1013
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: You know, I love the Internet more than anybody I know,

1014
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: but I I too know when there's a moment where

1015
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: I need to pull back and start reassessing, sort of

1016
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: like what I'm engaging with and how I'm putting myself

1017
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 1: out there. And I think just that reset is good

1018
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: for anybody. And touch grass, really, just touch grass and

1019
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: get a passport. Get a passport, touch more grass, Divest

1020
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: from the media, bullshit and lies. I like it. Wenda,

1021
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. You are such

1022
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: a goddamn delight. You are too.

1023
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:49,839
Speaker 2: We need to do this more often. I'm gonna come

1024
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: back anytime for some stuff. I would love that You're

1025
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 2: the best.

1026
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: Thank you, Bridget, I really love you for inviting me

1027
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: into take space in your space, and thank you. I

1028
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: appreciate your support so much. Thank you, Ugh, It's so mutual.

1029
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 2: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or

1030
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 2: just want to say hi, You can reach us at

1031
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 2: Hello at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts

1032
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 2: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No

1033
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 2: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod.

1034
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,280
Speaker 2: It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative Jonathan Strickland

1035
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 2: is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and

1036
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 2: sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer. I'm your host,

1037
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: Bridget Tod. If you want to help us grow, rate

1038
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 2: and review.

1039
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 1: Us on Apple Podcasts.

1040
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,

1041
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 2: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.