WEBVTT - Blink with Stephen Gaghan | Development Hell 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:25.876 Pushkin. Many years ago, I wrote a book called Blink. 0:00:26.596 --> 0:00:29.916 It was about snap judgments and first impressions. It was 0:00:29.956 --> 0:00:33.076 my second book. My interactions with Hollywood word at that 0:00:33.116 --> 0:00:36.756 point limited. I think someone wants options something I'd written 0:00:36.756 --> 0:00:38.956 for The New Yorker, and I'd taken the meeting or two, 0:00:39.276 --> 0:00:42.756 but nothing came of it. But then one day I 0:00:42.796 --> 0:00:48.076 got a call from Steve Gagan. If you're a movie buff, 0:00:48.116 --> 0:00:50.356 you've heard the name. He'd just won the Oscar for 0:00:50.396 --> 0:00:53.316 writing Traffic, which was an amazing movie about the drug 0:00:53.356 --> 0:00:57.836 trade directed by Steven Soderberg, starring Michael Douglas and Benicio 0:00:57.876 --> 0:01:00.956 del Toro and Don Cheedle and a million other stars. 0:01:01.516 --> 0:01:04.916 And he had just rapped Syriana, another fantastic movie with 0:01:05.036 --> 0:01:08.316 Jeffrey Wright and George Clooney and Matt Damon. Anyway, I 0:01:08.316 --> 0:01:11.516 had never met him. He says, I'm coming to New 0:01:11.596 --> 0:01:14.556 York and I want to meet with you about your 0:01:14.556 --> 0:01:19.956 book Blink. Every writer dreams of getting a call like this, 0:01:20.396 --> 0:01:23.236 I promise you. I was thrilled to bits, and Steve 0:01:23.276 --> 0:01:25.676 flies in from Los Angeles and we meet in a 0:01:25.716 --> 0:01:28.676 cafe somewhere downtown and just so you get the visual 0:01:29.276 --> 0:01:32.476 I'm short and skinny. Steve is I dun'no six ' four. 0:01:32.876 --> 0:01:36.676 He's an athlete, absurdly handsome, maybe the most charming person 0:01:36.676 --> 0:01:39.196 I've ever met. And he tells me he's obsessed with 0:01:39.236 --> 0:01:42.796 the chapter in Blink about reading emotions and how there 0:01:42.796 --> 0:01:44.916 are people in the world who are really, really good 0:01:44.916 --> 0:01:48.196 at knowing what other people are thinking and feeling, human 0:01:48.756 --> 0:01:52.796 lie detectors. So over the next few years, I am 0:01:52.836 --> 0:01:56.756 basically Steve's assistant in cooking up a story about a 0:01:56.836 --> 0:01:59.516 human lie detector. It is, I believe to this day, 0:01:59.796 --> 0:02:03.876 an absolutely brilliant script. But have you ever seen a 0:02:03.916 --> 0:02:08.196 movie called Blink? No, you haven't, And what I'm about 0:02:08.236 --> 0:02:11.476 to do is to tell you the real story of 0:02:11.516 --> 0:02:17.276 why the movie never got made. In fact, I'm going 0:02:17.316 --> 0:02:19.716 to do much more than that. In the next episode, 0:02:19.836 --> 0:02:22.276 I'm going to tell you another story about an amazing 0:02:22.276 --> 0:02:25.916 movie that never got made, and then after that, another story, 0:02:26.116 --> 0:02:29.316 and then another story. Half a dozen episodes all told, 0:02:29.596 --> 0:02:32.236 maybe even more if we get into it. Because the 0:02:32.236 --> 0:02:35.316 thing I realized in talking to Steve about what happened 0:02:35.556 --> 0:02:40.556 with our long and hilarious and ultimately heartbreaking experience in 0:02:40.636 --> 0:02:44.036 trying to turn blink into a movie. Is that the 0:02:44.036 --> 0:02:47.996 best Hollywood stories are the stories that never got made. 0:02:48.236 --> 0:02:52.756 We're calling this series development. Hell I promise you there 0:02:52.796 --> 0:02:56.156 will be more name dropping and celebrity dry buys and 0:02:56.276 --> 0:03:00.076 hilarious digressions than you can shake a stick at. We're 0:03:00.076 --> 0:03:02.476 going to call up the biggest names we can find 0:03:02.956 --> 0:03:05.996 and just have them pitch us the ideas that broke 0:03:06.036 --> 0:03:09.956 their heart. I mean, come on, how are you not 0:03:10.036 --> 0:03:14.796 along for the ride? But today my very own journey 0:03:14.996 --> 0:03:23.596 into development. Hell well, thank you for doing this, Steve. 0:03:25.396 --> 0:03:27.316 What I really want to do is for you and 0:03:27.356 --> 0:03:31.356 I to recreate, just for a moment, the magic of 0:03:31.436 --> 0:03:36.396 that day when we were jetting around LA in your 0:03:36.636 --> 0:03:39.516 What car did you have then? Was it your Mercedes Wagon? 0:03:40.516 --> 0:03:42.196 I think it was an old station wagon. 0:03:42.636 --> 0:03:45.236 Exactly, it's an old station wagon. And we went from 0:03:45.396 --> 0:03:49.716 one mogul to the next pitching this story. It was 0:03:49.796 --> 0:03:51.316 just like, it's one of the one of my greatest 0:03:51.356 --> 0:03:55.076 memories ever. But to start at the beginning. I never 0:03:55.156 --> 0:03:59.676 met you, correct, and you called me out of the blue. 0:03:59.996 --> 0:04:02.756 We have to even start before this, Okay, ok, Actually 0:04:03.436 --> 0:04:05.276 I think we should go back to the dawn of time. 0:04:05.596 --> 0:04:08.916 So there was the Big Bang, and that molic Jules 0:04:09.116 --> 0:04:15.356 carently came along anyway, so it's actually it's actually an 0:04:15.356 --> 0:04:19.636 incredible story. So I had finished my film Syriana, which 0:04:19.676 --> 0:04:21.636 took a lot, was like a four four and a 0:04:21.676 --> 0:04:24.796 half year effort, and I was and it was intense, 0:04:24.876 --> 0:04:26.076 and then I was like, what am I going to 0:04:26.156 --> 0:04:30.956 do next? So I'm sitting in Cavigtan and I I 0:04:31.036 --> 0:04:35.636 had this idea, this crazy idea, this is way before Twilight. 0:04:35.676 --> 0:04:39.636 I wanted to do a vampire love story. And actually 0:04:39.676 --> 0:04:41.556 what I wanted to do was a love store, a 0:04:41.636 --> 0:04:44.276 tragic love story with a happy ending. And I was like, 0:04:44.636 --> 0:04:46.516 kept thinking about, thinking about thinking about it, and then I 0:04:46.556 --> 0:04:50.676 was like, oh my god, the guy is a vampire. 0:04:51.316 --> 0:04:54.236 The love stories are as good as the things that 0:04:54.356 --> 0:04:58.316 keep the lovers apart. So picture picture a horse farm 0:04:58.356 --> 0:05:02.316 in Kentucky. It's winter that the you know, suddenly the 0:05:02.396 --> 0:05:04.516 smoke starts coming out of a chimney. You know, these 0:05:04.516 --> 0:05:07.316 big farms are all owned by Europeans who are mysterious. 0:05:07.356 --> 0:05:10.836 This guy comes to town and he meets like a 0:05:10.956 --> 0:05:14.916 veterinarian on the farm, and the sparks fly. They obviously 0:05:14.916 --> 0:05:16.676 are really into each other, but then there's also all 0:05:16.716 --> 0:05:20.396 these weird deaths that start happening around some animals, some people. 0:05:21.276 --> 0:05:23.876 Her brothers, her family decide this guy as the one 0:05:23.876 --> 0:05:28.036 who's doing it, and so they decide, you know, enough's enough, 0:05:28.116 --> 0:05:32.476 they're gonna kill him. So they poison him. Now she's 0:05:32.516 --> 0:05:35.396 in love with him. She discovers him right the sun 0:05:35.476 --> 0:05:38.876 is setting. He's been poisoned, you know, they think he's dead, 0:05:38.956 --> 0:05:42.396 they've gone. She finds him. She thinks he's committed suicide 0:05:42.436 --> 0:05:45.396 by drinking the poison. Romeo and Juliet. She's so distraught 0:05:45.476 --> 0:05:48.516 all she could do is drink the poison herself. As 0:05:48.596 --> 0:05:52.716 she's dying. The sun is setting. The vampire's waking up, 0:05:53.196 --> 0:05:55.596 and he sees her there and realizes what's happened, and 0:05:55.636 --> 0:05:57.836 he has to do the one thing that he swore 0:05:57.916 --> 0:06:00.116 he would never do, which is reveal his true self 0:06:00.316 --> 0:06:03.596 and bite her, and so she dies. But they then 0:06:03.636 --> 0:06:06.876 wakes up to internal happiness, being in love with the guys. 0:06:06.916 --> 0:06:11.236 And I was like, too much gepticism from every representative 0:06:11.276 --> 0:06:14.276 in my life. They're like, you cannot write a vampire movie. 0:06:14.356 --> 0:06:17.596 It is impossible, like you've done you know, know any whatever. 0:06:17.676 --> 0:06:21.956 So I'm sitting in cave Gittan trying to write my 0:06:22.036 --> 0:06:24.876 vampire love story. I never got past page ten or twelve. 0:06:24.916 --> 0:06:28.356 And so I'm reading I'm reading your book, Blink, Blink. 0:06:28.396 --> 0:06:32.196 And I'm sitting in there reading Blink quite happily. Every day, 0:06:32.276 --> 0:06:35.276 drinking my coffee, failing at writing my vampire love story, 0:06:35.476 --> 0:06:40.716 and in and out, every once in a while comes 0:06:41.556 --> 0:06:44.356 a plucky young actor that I'm pretty sure is going places, 0:06:44.356 --> 0:06:48.476 by the name of Leonardo DiCaprio, And so Leo sees 0:06:48.516 --> 0:06:53.876 me there, and Leo, Leo had been interested in playing 0:06:53.876 --> 0:06:57.316 the role in Sirianna that Matt Damon ultimately played. And 0:06:57.356 --> 0:07:00.236 in fact, if you know Leo at all, like he 0:07:00.276 --> 0:07:02.356 never really says yes, but he never says no, so 0:07:02.436 --> 0:07:04.916 he never passes, Like I honestly think he still thinks 0:07:04.956 --> 0:07:07.316 he can be in Syriana, Like it's just like still available. 0:07:07.356 --> 0:07:13.116 And so anyway, now I see him in Jitan and 0:07:13.156 --> 0:07:16.476 he's like, Hey, we gotta what are you doing? We 0:07:16.516 --> 0:07:18.916 got to cook something up? What do you what are you? 0:07:19.116 --> 0:07:20.996 What are you interested in? Let's come up with something. 0:07:21.636 --> 0:07:24.316 And I'm like, I think this could be a movie, 0:07:24.356 --> 0:07:26.876 like a really you know, I think there's a movie 0:07:26.956 --> 0:07:29.876 in here. Now, if you're knowing your book as you do, 0:07:30.476 --> 0:07:34.236 you realize that's a very challenging adaptation, right. 0:07:34.156 --> 0:07:37.196 Right, Blink is nothing like a vampire love story. 0:07:37.036 --> 0:07:38.716 Right like you and I. You know, cut to a 0:07:38.796 --> 0:07:40.436 year from this point, you and I will cook up 0:07:40.436 --> 0:07:43.676 a totally different story. But he's looking at me and 0:07:43.676 --> 0:07:46.156 he goes, I'll do it. Let's do it. That's a 0:07:46.196 --> 0:07:51.356 great idea. So that's then that precipitated me. I think 0:07:52.116 --> 0:07:55.396 maybe calling you out of the blue, just say. 0:07:56.916 --> 0:08:02.316 Hi, and this is what it's like two thousand and five. 0:08:03.156 --> 0:08:05.996 Maybe two thousand and six or seven. 0:08:06.876 --> 0:08:10.116 When do we go at some point the story? So 0:08:10.236 --> 0:08:13.236 we we decided we would do something which makes no 0:08:13.396 --> 0:08:19.236 practical sense, which is turned Blink into a movie. You 0:08:19.316 --> 0:08:21.796 were from the very beginning, as ever, call attracted to 0:08:21.836 --> 0:08:25.396 a very very specific thing in Blink, the notion. 0:08:25.236 --> 0:08:31.236 Of what I liked, the idea that somebody could have 0:08:33.076 --> 0:08:38.356 a like almost a truth a truth detector, you know, 0:08:38.436 --> 0:08:42.876 that a person could have this really heightened sense of 0:08:42.996 --> 0:08:46.556 when people were being honest or not, and that they 0:08:46.556 --> 0:08:49.876 could you know, they had like incredible empathy or or 0:08:50.156 --> 0:08:51.996 who knows what it is, you know, but it's just 0:08:52.276 --> 0:08:54.956 it's like a fact of life. And for this for 0:08:55.076 --> 0:08:59.236 someone it's also it's a little heavy in some ways. 0:08:59.276 --> 0:09:00.996 But it's quite interesting in the world we live in 0:09:01.076 --> 0:09:03.556 because I just at that time and I don't think 0:09:03.596 --> 0:09:05.836 it's changed a lot. I felt like, you know, a 0:09:05.876 --> 0:09:09.236 lot of people are saying one thing and doing another. Yeah, 0:09:09.396 --> 0:09:11.316 this person would always feel a little bit ahead of 0:09:11.316 --> 0:09:11.756 that curve. 0:09:12.116 --> 0:09:15.476 This is because I had in Blink a chapter where 0:09:15.476 --> 0:09:18.516 I talked about the idea that a very small number 0:09:18.556 --> 0:09:23.876 of people may have the gift of telling when someone's lying, 0:09:24.636 --> 0:09:26.196 and I taught it's all about the research of a 0:09:26.196 --> 0:09:29.996 guy named Paul Eckman in San Francisco, is a legendary 0:09:30.076 --> 0:09:34.396 figure in light detection world. And this predates there's subsequently 0:09:34.396 --> 0:09:37.916 where all these TV shows about people who knew when 0:09:37.956 --> 0:09:39.916 someone was lying. This predates all of that. 0:09:41.036 --> 0:09:44.356 Yeah, but way before that, you know, So you and I, 0:09:45.116 --> 0:09:48.396 you know, we get together, we start talking about it, 0:09:48.396 --> 0:09:52.996 and I think very quickly we realize we have nothing, 0:09:53.036 --> 0:09:54.436 like what are we going to do exactly? 0:09:55.796 --> 0:09:59.436 But we come up with an idea. I have no 0:09:59.516 --> 0:10:03.996 idea how this comes up, But give me your memory 0:10:04.556 --> 0:10:07.996 of the story that we that emerged out of our collaboration. 0:10:08.116 --> 0:10:12.196 So something you and I were both interested in was 0:10:12.276 --> 0:10:15.476 the looming you know, it was how giant so how 0:10:15.556 --> 0:10:19.556 corporations treated their retired employees because they had these pension funds, 0:10:19.676 --> 0:10:22.796 right that were like these giant boxes of money, and 0:10:22.876 --> 0:10:25.436 suddenly out there in the world, these like leverage buyout 0:10:25.436 --> 0:10:27.476 people and hedge fund people were going, oh my gosh, 0:10:27.516 --> 0:10:30.436 look at that. There's this giant box of money. That's 0:10:30.476 --> 0:10:32.716 one thing, but then there are all these obligations that 0:10:32.756 --> 0:10:35.876 are unfunded to these workers. Now, if you could somehow 0:10:35.956 --> 0:10:38.676 buy that company and get rid of all of those 0:10:38.756 --> 0:10:42.676 unfunded obligations that are weighing down the company, you could 0:10:42.716 --> 0:10:45.316 have a really profitable company. You go from having a 0:10:45.356 --> 0:10:47.716 bankrupt company to actually a company that works really well. 0:10:47.996 --> 0:10:49.676 You know. The only bad part of that story is 0:10:49.676 --> 0:10:51.876 that the people that actually put in the forty years 0:10:51.956 --> 0:10:54.356 or thirty years of work, you know, are left actually 0:10:54.356 --> 0:10:57.316 without their pensions or without healthcare with that very reduced 0:10:57.356 --> 0:11:01.156 pension support. And I think we were sensing that not 0:11:01.196 --> 0:11:02.876 only was this starting to happen, but it was going 0:11:02.916 --> 0:11:05.196 to happen in a really really big way. And I 0:11:05.236 --> 0:11:07.956 think very quickly we kind of got interested in and 0:11:07.956 --> 0:11:10.596 we were thinking about motors, you know, and we saw 0:11:10.676 --> 0:11:14.036 this kind of general motors bankruptcy coming and that the 0:11:14.116 --> 0:11:16.676 pension stuff would be like at the dead center of it, 0:11:17.036 --> 0:11:19.236 and we ended up making up our own fictional like 0:11:19.316 --> 0:11:24.076 steel company, American Steel, and American Steel was basically being 0:11:24.076 --> 0:11:27.236 put in play, you know, by a kind of hedge 0:11:27.236 --> 0:11:30.556 fund operator who unbeknownst to him has a son, a 0:11:30.676 --> 0:11:32.916 kind of wayward son. So it's a father son's story, 0:11:32.916 --> 0:11:36.676 and his wayward son has this truth detection, the ability 0:11:36.956 --> 0:11:40.396 yeah he that he becomes aware of over the course 0:11:40.436 --> 0:11:40.916 of the film. 0:11:41.276 --> 0:11:45.836 So you see, you're you've the genius thing about your idea? 0:11:45.996 --> 0:11:48.836 Was you when you were telling it? Initially you started 0:11:48.836 --> 0:11:55.236 with we have one of these prototypical ruthless Wall Street 0:11:55.756 --> 0:11:59.796 predators who's like got the fancy apartment on Fifth Avenue, 0:11:59.876 --> 0:12:03.036 the huge house out and go in, you know, in 0:12:03.036 --> 0:12:06.836 in the Hampton's and he's everything you And he has 0:12:06.916 --> 0:12:13.516 this a son from whom he is estranged, right, a 0:12:13.516 --> 0:12:16.556 son who shares none of his father's values, but who 0:12:16.596 --> 0:12:19.916 desperately wants and cannot get his father's approval. You started 0:12:19.916 --> 0:12:23.076 with this really powerful family dynamic which was going to 0:12:23.156 --> 0:12:25.516 be the engine of the movie. What does a son 0:12:26.636 --> 0:12:29.316 do if he wants to win his father's love and 0:12:29.396 --> 0:12:32.916 yet he is incapable of competing on any of the 0:12:33.036 --> 0:12:36.356 terms of his father's world. Right, the son was a 0:12:36.436 --> 0:12:38.756 school teacher, wasn't he a school teacher or like teaching 0:12:38.796 --> 0:12:39.796 in Harlem? 0:12:40.076 --> 0:12:43.156 He was. He had taken a very long time to 0:12:43.196 --> 0:12:47.716 graduate from college, like over a decade, and you know, 0:12:47.836 --> 0:12:51.436 is generally considered a lay about and kind of a 0:12:51.476 --> 0:12:56.356 loser and definitely in his own mind. And now he's 0:12:56.396 --> 0:13:00.116 graduating maybe, and he doesn't know what to do, and 0:13:00.476 --> 0:13:06.396 the dad is sort of loosely amenable to perhaps providing 0:13:06.476 --> 0:13:10.796 him a cubicle his headge found upingtechut or whatever, and 0:13:10.876 --> 0:13:13.116 he goes to work in this kind of shark shark 0:13:13.196 --> 0:13:14.876 environment that he's not at all suited for. 0:13:15.836 --> 0:13:21.156 His dad doesn't know that the son has this gift, 0:13:21.596 --> 0:13:24.236 this magical gift of knowing whether someone's lying or not. 0:13:24.756 --> 0:13:27.276 He's no clue that his son has this. He's he 0:13:27.316 --> 0:13:30.556 perceives his son as a loser without any kind of 0:13:31.876 --> 0:13:34.356 you know, without any kind of special gifts or abilities. 0:13:34.356 --> 0:13:36.636 And he's doing his he's tossing his son a bone 0:13:36.796 --> 0:13:39.436 is not the son is still on the outside of 0:13:39.476 --> 0:13:40.836 disappointment in his father's eyes. 0:13:41.156 --> 0:13:42.956 I think it's important to place this film like in 0:13:42.996 --> 0:13:45.996 the right tone. It has like a hal ash f 0:13:46.156 --> 0:13:48.196 vibe to it, you know, it feels like a little 0:13:48.236 --> 0:13:49.796 bit like it's in the it's in the tone of 0:13:49.876 --> 0:13:52.196 Harold and Maud or in the tone of the maybe 0:13:52.196 --> 0:13:54.276 the graduate even like that's I know, that was like 0:13:54.356 --> 0:13:56.556 something I was really really thinking about, like what are 0:13:56.556 --> 0:13:59.676 the what are the pressures on young people right now 0:13:59.836 --> 0:14:02.396 when they like are looking at what's my future? It 0:14:02.436 --> 0:14:03.996 allows you to have a little bit of a shaggy 0:14:04.036 --> 0:14:06.836 dog story, but there's like, you know, like you're pointing 0:14:06.836 --> 0:14:11.636 out really heartfelt, motional and kind of dynamic you know, 0:14:11.676 --> 0:14:16.316 of wanting a father's love. And then yes, it's moving. 0:14:16.836 --> 0:14:22.276 And so the core little, the core little plot point 0:14:22.756 --> 0:14:26.596 is this weird quirk of bankruptcy law that if you 0:14:26.996 --> 0:14:30.276 to go back to your your, your, your, what you 0:14:30.356 --> 0:14:33.316 began with that they're with these companies that seemed to 0:14:33.356 --> 0:14:36.236 bankrupt but had this large pool of cash tied up 0:14:36.316 --> 0:14:39.636 in a retirement account for their employees. If a company 0:14:39.716 --> 0:14:41.716 is in bankruptcy, it is at the mercy of a 0:14:41.716 --> 0:14:45.876 bankruptcy judge, and bankruptcy law is unique in all law, 0:14:46.116 --> 0:14:49.676 and that it grants enormous discretion to the judge. So 0:14:50.276 --> 0:14:53.076 there are judges out there if they want to, they 0:14:53.116 --> 0:14:55.996 could waive a magic wand and say you can take 0:14:55.996 --> 0:14:59.796 this company out of bankruptcy and all the money in 0:14:59.876 --> 0:15:03.716 the retirement account is yours. Or another judge might say 0:15:04.036 --> 0:15:06.676 you can have the company, but you must honor every 0:15:06.716 --> 0:15:10.236 single obligation you have towards the retirement your employees. It's 0:15:10.356 --> 0:15:14.516 up to the judge. So if you're a robber baron, 0:15:14.916 --> 0:15:17.876 you're a predator, you're some hedge fun guy Connecticut, and 0:15:17.916 --> 0:15:20.596 you're eyeing a bankrupt company and trying to figure out 0:15:20.596 --> 0:15:24.276 whether you can make it work. Everything depends on which 0:15:24.396 --> 0:15:28.956 judge oversees this particular case in bankruptcy court. 0:15:29.556 --> 0:15:33.436 It's incredibly it's incredibly fun as a plot mechanism because 0:15:33.636 --> 0:15:38.036 now you're just you know, billions and billions ride on, 0:15:38.716 --> 0:15:43.636 essentially gaming the system, which which of these potential judges, 0:15:43.796 --> 0:15:48.276 if you could somehow manipulate it is most likely to 0:15:48.276 --> 0:15:51.796 be friendly to your particular robber baron. 0:15:51.876 --> 0:15:55.916 Cause yeah, yeah, So the Sun realizes this and goes 0:15:55.956 --> 0:15:59.036 to the dad. The dad is totally unsure what to do. 0:16:00.356 --> 0:16:02.476 His options are just what to do, just to roll 0:16:02.516 --> 0:16:05.076 the dice? Does he does he buy this thing, take 0:16:05.076 --> 0:16:06.756 it to bank, and take the risk that he could 0:16:06.796 --> 0:16:10.036 be completely screwed by some kind of pro worker judge. 0:16:10.396 --> 0:16:12.916 But the son comes to the dad and says, Dad, 0:16:12.956 --> 0:16:16.276 you I need to tell you something about myself. I 0:16:16.356 --> 0:16:19.876 have this gift I can I can see into someone's heart. 0:16:20.676 --> 0:16:22.596 And the dad of course rolls his eyes and says, 0:16:22.996 --> 0:16:26.676 you're bullshitting me. So the son sets out to prove 0:16:26.756 --> 0:16:30.756 to his dad he knows that he can see into 0:16:30.756 --> 0:16:34.236 someone's soul. And then Disney have a series of tests. 0:16:34.316 --> 0:16:37.916 There's the other three tests that he he undergoes to 0:16:37.956 --> 0:16:40.876 prove to his dad he has this this magical ability. 0:16:41.116 --> 0:16:43.076 So part of the thing with the with the movie 0:16:43.076 --> 0:16:46.476 that I think worked really well is that the son 0:16:47.436 --> 0:16:50.316 finds out about the gift during the during the movie 0:16:50.316 --> 0:16:53.876 as well, so he wasn't he wasn't like swaning around 0:16:53.916 --> 0:16:57.916 saying I have a superpower. He actually runs across the 0:16:57.956 --> 0:17:00.796 professor who's doing this kind of research, and the professor 0:17:00.876 --> 0:17:04.636 is a character like he's a gambling addict. He realizes 0:17:04.636 --> 0:17:06.476 that you know, they run this test where they're like 0:17:06.516 --> 0:17:09.036 it's something some some ridiculous thing. It's like people say 0:17:09.236 --> 0:17:12.236 the line I had a ham sandwich for lunch. Oh, 0:17:12.396 --> 0:17:14.796 like hundreds of people I had a ham sandwich for lunch. 0:17:14.876 --> 0:17:16.636 And he drags this kid in there and he's like 0:17:16.636 --> 0:17:18.716 who's lying and who's telling the truth. And he watches 0:17:18.796 --> 0:17:20.556 like one hundred and fifty people saying I had a 0:17:20.556 --> 0:17:22.916 ham sandwich for lunch, and he gets one hundred and 0:17:22.996 --> 0:17:27.756 fifty of them right, and the guy is like immediately 0:17:27.796 --> 0:17:30.156 takes him to the race track like out to Belmont, 0:17:30.716 --> 0:17:32.956 puts his binoculars to his eyes and starts having him 0:17:32.996 --> 0:17:35.836 look at horses. Which horse is going to win this race? 0:17:36.276 --> 0:17:37.996 And he's like looking at the horse and he's like 0:17:38.036 --> 0:17:39.796 this is absurd, and the horse he's like, no, no horses 0:17:39.796 --> 0:17:41.916 have in her lives, Like what's going on? And he 0:17:41.956 --> 0:17:44.756 starts like telling him about the emotional lives of these 0:17:44.796 --> 0:17:47.156 horses that you know who are getting ready to go 0:17:47.236 --> 0:17:50.676 into the into the starting gate, and like one is 0:17:50.716 --> 0:17:53.516 like thinking about dinner and one has like had a 0:17:53.556 --> 0:17:57.836 bad sexual experience recently and feeling really shameful, and like 0:17:57.876 --> 0:18:01.356 they're all just and he's started by process of elimination. 0:18:01.476 --> 0:18:03.036 He's like, it's going to be this one. It's gonna 0:18:03.036 --> 0:18:04.956 be the Philly. The Philly's gonna win. Yeah, And so 0:18:06.396 --> 0:18:08.996 this professor, who's like literally a gambly, he ends up 0:18:09.356 --> 0:18:12.796 betting like to like fifteen grand like at the track 0:18:12.916 --> 0:18:15.196 and then money through bookies. And the kid is watching 0:18:15.236 --> 0:18:17.516 him and he's like, this guy's a psychopath, you know. 0:18:17.636 --> 0:18:20.476 And then photo finished, and then of course the Philly wins, 0:18:20.556 --> 0:18:24.156 and you know, and our character doesn't believe it, you know, 0:18:24.276 --> 0:18:26.476 he just thinks this is complete nonsense, and he sort 0:18:26.476 --> 0:18:28.236 of proves it to him over and over and over. 0:18:28.676 --> 0:18:32.436 The Professor, by the way, is based on a man 0:18:32.476 --> 0:18:37.716 named Sylvan Tompkins, one of the true legends of early 0:18:37.796 --> 0:18:41.596 twentieth century mid century psychology, who had convinced himself that 0:18:41.716 --> 0:18:47.156 he could read people's in ourselves. And also the thing 0:18:47.196 --> 0:18:50.356 about going to the horses. That's Tompkins. He would frequent 0:18:51.116 --> 0:18:54.116 the horse racing and horse races. He was a pen 0:18:54.476 --> 0:18:56.676 He would go to to the horse races in Philadelphia 0:18:56.876 --> 0:18:58.956 and he would try and use all of his theories 0:18:58.996 --> 0:19:03.716 about human emotion to pick winners. So that was all 0:19:03.756 --> 0:19:09.356 straight from this he was this autodidact guy, and he 0:19:09.796 --> 0:19:13.356 wrote a book detailing his theories. And the book was 0:19:13.636 --> 0:19:15.996 The line about the book was the book was so 0:19:16.156 --> 0:19:20.756 long no one read it, even Sylvan I always loved it. 0:19:20.836 --> 0:19:23.996 And eventually he, you know, at this inflection point with 0:19:24.116 --> 0:19:26.516 his father where that where they're not you know, the 0:19:26.596 --> 0:19:30.036 opportunities inside the family business or or not. You know, 0:19:30.036 --> 0:19:31.796 they're they're they're not going to work out for him. 0:19:32.516 --> 0:19:34.716 He like, as he realizes he has like a hail 0:19:34.796 --> 0:19:39.396 Mary pitch, which is, I can actually make sure you 0:19:39.516 --> 0:19:41.916 get the result you want right right with the bankruptcy 0:19:41.996 --> 0:19:44.076 judge and the data of course is a skeptic. He 0:19:44.156 --> 0:19:49.636 doesn't believe it either, and like, you know, you know, 0:19:49.836 --> 0:19:52.076 like I hadn't. I hadn't you know, look, I hadn't 0:19:52.156 --> 0:19:54.396 thought about the scripture and looked at it. And I 0:19:54.476 --> 0:19:58.036 mean a long time, probably fifteen years, fifteen years. Yeah, 0:19:58.116 --> 0:20:00.756 and I am I didn't even I couldn't even find 0:20:00.796 --> 0:20:02.556 the blink folder. And I was like, and then I 0:20:02.756 --> 0:20:05.756 just searched for Blink and then up came a bunch 0:20:05.836 --> 0:20:08.876 of stuff and like and and and the draft. And 0:20:08.916 --> 0:20:10.676 it's so funny because you get to know that you know, 0:20:10.876 --> 0:20:14.716 you put so much effort, you know, into trying to 0:20:14.756 --> 0:20:17.476 make these movies, and like it's so much love. It's love, 0:20:17.556 --> 0:20:19.996 and like it feels like life or death. And I 0:20:20.156 --> 0:20:22.956 just I just clicked on it and like page sixty 0:20:23.036 --> 0:20:25.796 five and up comes and this is this is dialogue. 0:20:26.196 --> 0:20:30.116 I completely forgotten this. This is dialogue between the kid 0:20:30.236 --> 0:20:34.236 and his dad and they're trying to like and they're 0:20:34.356 --> 0:20:38.276 they're at like a local, really cheesy drinking place in 0:20:38.476 --> 0:20:41.796 Greenwich where his half brother plays in a band called 0:20:41.836 --> 0:20:44.116 The Margin Calls. And he's there with his family and 0:20:44.196 --> 0:20:47.076 his step mom and they're all nodding along while this 0:20:47.236 --> 0:20:50.436 bro band does cover cover cover songs, you know, and 0:20:50.516 --> 0:20:53.996 they're eating like, you know, French dips or whatever, and 0:20:54.676 --> 0:20:58.916 his dad's a little tipsy and he's like and he's like, 0:20:59.276 --> 0:21:00.996 you know, this is all coming to a head. He's like, 0:21:01.076 --> 0:21:04.356 am I sorry? I never carpooled or sliced oranges for 0:21:04.436 --> 0:21:07.196 T ball? I don't know. I used to say that 0:21:07.276 --> 0:21:11.476 they asked Napoleon to do reading circle and Teddy's like, 0:21:11.716 --> 0:21:14.476 the kid is like, we did some stuff. We looked 0:21:14.476 --> 0:21:14.996 at pictures. 0:21:15.116 --> 0:21:18.876 Yeah, yeah, Redmond. The dad is Redmond. The son is 0:21:18.996 --> 0:21:19.876 ted Teddy. 0:21:20.116 --> 0:21:22.756 Exactly who went to the Met together. I remember going 0:21:22.796 --> 0:21:25.196 to the Met. I think I do, and he does 0:21:25.236 --> 0:21:27.516 his dad, you know, his dad imitates his dad and 0:21:27.556 --> 0:21:30.316 he's like, American tycoons have to appear culture. So what's 0:21:30.356 --> 0:21:33.356 the first thing they buy? And then together they say bronzes. 0:21:33.836 --> 0:21:36.636 And now the dad's like JP Morgan Frick. Teddy's like 0:21:36.676 --> 0:21:38.956 they had books, but they wanted to be renaissance men, 0:21:39.316 --> 0:21:42.636 like the Duke of Urbino, and Redmond says, yeah, if 0:21:42.676 --> 0:21:45.396 you're a real snob, you know that Castello and Rabino 0:21:45.596 --> 0:21:47.356 like the back of your hand, but you don't. 0:21:47.156 --> 0:21:49.756 Talk about it. And then. 0:21:51.156 --> 0:21:54.596 Teddy says, and I think I remember a bedtime rhyme 0:21:55.156 --> 0:21:59.196 about how much sleep a person needs, and he says 0:21:59.476 --> 0:22:04.636 nature needs five, custom takes seven, laziness takes nine, and 0:22:04.836 --> 0:22:10.116 wickedness eleven. A his dad looks at him and says 0:22:10.396 --> 0:22:12.236 his dad looks at him for a long moment and goes, 0:22:12.916 --> 0:22:21.956 I'd forgotten it's Scottish, which is I mean, it's really funny, Malcolm. 0:22:21.996 --> 0:22:24.276 I mean it's like it's all coming back. There's a 0:22:24.276 --> 0:22:27.596 beautiful scene I remember, I mean, one of the genius 0:22:27.676 --> 0:22:31.356 things about the idea was exploiting the idea of how 0:22:31.596 --> 0:22:36.956 genuinely conflicted the sun is about this discovery of his gift, 0:22:38.076 --> 0:22:39.916 because isn't there a scene? Am I making this up? 0:22:40.276 --> 0:22:44.516 He's on a date with a girl and the date 0:22:44.636 --> 0:22:48.596 goes awry because he can tell every time she says 0:22:48.636 --> 0:22:51.836 something that she doesn't believe, and you realize that dating 0:22:51.916 --> 0:22:54.156 under those circumstances is impossible. 0:22:54.436 --> 0:22:58.436 It's you realize that, like this thing that started out 0:22:58.436 --> 0:23:02.156