1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:25,876 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Many years ago, I wrote a book called Blink. 2 00:00:26,596 --> 00:00:29,916 Speaker 1: It was about snap judgments and first impressions. It was 3 00:00:29,956 --> 00:00:33,076 Speaker 1: my second book. My interactions with Hollywood word at that 4 00:00:33,116 --> 00:00:36,756 Speaker 1: point limited. I think someone wants options something I'd written 5 00:00:36,756 --> 00:00:38,956 Speaker 1: for The New Yorker, and I'd taken the meeting or two, 6 00:00:39,276 --> 00:00:42,756 Speaker 1: but nothing came of it. But then one day I 7 00:00:42,796 --> 00:00:48,076 Speaker 1: got a call from Steve Gagan. If you're a movie buff, 8 00:00:48,116 --> 00:00:50,356 Speaker 1: you've heard the name. He'd just won the Oscar for 9 00:00:50,396 --> 00:00:53,316 Speaker 1: writing Traffic, which was an amazing movie about the drug 10 00:00:53,356 --> 00:00:57,836 Speaker 1: trade directed by Steven Soderberg, starring Michael Douglas and Benicio 11 00:00:57,876 --> 00:01:00,956 Speaker 1: del Toro and Don Cheedle and a million other stars. 12 00:01:01,516 --> 00:01:04,916 Speaker 1: And he had just rapped Syriana, another fantastic movie with 13 00:01:05,036 --> 00:01:08,316 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Wright and George Clooney and Matt Damon. Anyway, I 14 00:01:08,316 --> 00:01:11,516 Speaker 1: had never met him. He says, I'm coming to New 15 00:01:11,596 --> 00:01:14,556 Speaker 1: York and I want to meet with you about your 16 00:01:14,556 --> 00:01:19,956 Speaker 1: book Blink. Every writer dreams of getting a call like this, 17 00:01:20,396 --> 00:01:23,236 Speaker 1: I promise you. I was thrilled to bits, and Steve 18 00:01:23,276 --> 00:01:25,676 Speaker 1: flies in from Los Angeles and we meet in a 19 00:01:25,716 --> 00:01:28,676 Speaker 1: cafe somewhere downtown and just so you get the visual 20 00:01:29,276 --> 00:01:32,476 Speaker 1: I'm short and skinny. Steve is I dun'no six ' four. 21 00:01:32,876 --> 00:01:36,676 Speaker 1: He's an athlete, absurdly handsome, maybe the most charming person 22 00:01:36,676 --> 00:01:39,196 Speaker 1: I've ever met. And he tells me he's obsessed with 23 00:01:39,236 --> 00:01:42,796 Speaker 1: the chapter in Blink about reading emotions and how there 24 00:01:42,796 --> 00:01:44,916 Speaker 1: are people in the world who are really, really good 25 00:01:44,916 --> 00:01:48,196 Speaker 1: at knowing what other people are thinking and feeling, human 26 00:01:48,756 --> 00:01:52,796 Speaker 1: lie detectors. So over the next few years, I am 27 00:01:52,836 --> 00:01:56,756 Speaker 1: basically Steve's assistant in cooking up a story about a 28 00:01:56,836 --> 00:01:59,516 Speaker 1: human lie detector. It is, I believe to this day, 29 00:01:59,796 --> 00:02:03,876 Speaker 1: an absolutely brilliant script. But have you ever seen a 30 00:02:03,916 --> 00:02:08,196 Speaker 1: movie called Blink? No, you haven't, And what I'm about 31 00:02:08,236 --> 00:02:11,476 Speaker 1: to do is to tell you the real story of 32 00:02:11,516 --> 00:02:17,276 Speaker 1: why the movie never got made. In fact, I'm going 33 00:02:17,316 --> 00:02:19,716 Speaker 1: to do much more than that. In the next episode, 34 00:02:19,836 --> 00:02:22,276 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you another story about an amazing 35 00:02:22,276 --> 00:02:25,916 Speaker 1: movie that never got made, and then after that, another story, 36 00:02:26,116 --> 00:02:29,316 Speaker 1: and then another story. Half a dozen episodes all told, 37 00:02:29,596 --> 00:02:32,236 Speaker 1: maybe even more if we get into it. Because the 38 00:02:32,236 --> 00:02:35,316 Speaker 1: thing I realized in talking to Steve about what happened 39 00:02:35,556 --> 00:02:40,556 Speaker 1: with our long and hilarious and ultimately heartbreaking experience in 40 00:02:40,636 --> 00:02:44,036 Speaker 1: trying to turn blink into a movie. Is that the 41 00:02:44,036 --> 00:02:47,996 Speaker 1: best Hollywood stories are the stories that never got made. 42 00:02:48,236 --> 00:02:52,756 Speaker 1: We're calling this series development. Hell I promise you there 43 00:02:52,796 --> 00:02:56,156 Speaker 1: will be more name dropping and celebrity dry buys and 44 00:02:56,276 --> 00:03:00,076 Speaker 1: hilarious digressions than you can shake a stick at. We're 45 00:03:00,076 --> 00:03:02,476 Speaker 1: going to call up the biggest names we can find 46 00:03:02,956 --> 00:03:05,996 Speaker 1: and just have them pitch us the ideas that broke 47 00:03:06,036 --> 00:03:09,956 Speaker 1: their heart. I mean, come on, how are you not 48 00:03:10,036 --> 00:03:14,796 Speaker 1: along for the ride? But today my very own journey 49 00:03:14,996 --> 00:03:23,596 Speaker 1: into development. Hell well, thank you for doing this, Steve. 50 00:03:25,396 --> 00:03:27,316 Speaker 1: What I really want to do is for you and 51 00:03:27,356 --> 00:03:31,356 Speaker 1: I to recreate, just for a moment, the magic of 52 00:03:31,436 --> 00:03:36,396 Speaker 1: that day when we were jetting around LA in your 53 00:03:36,636 --> 00:03:39,516 Speaker 1: What car did you have then? Was it your Mercedes Wagon? 54 00:03:40,516 --> 00:03:42,196 Speaker 2: I think it was an old station wagon. 55 00:03:42,636 --> 00:03:45,236 Speaker 1: Exactly, it's an old station wagon. And we went from 56 00:03:45,396 --> 00:03:49,716 Speaker 1: one mogul to the next pitching this story. It was 57 00:03:49,796 --> 00:03:51,316 Speaker 1: just like, it's one of the one of my greatest 58 00:03:51,356 --> 00:03:55,076 Speaker 1: memories ever. But to start at the beginning. I never 59 00:03:55,156 --> 00:03:59,676 Speaker 1: met you, correct, and you called me out of the blue. 60 00:03:59,996 --> 00:04:02,756 Speaker 2: We have to even start before this, Okay, ok, Actually 61 00:04:03,436 --> 00:04:05,276 Speaker 2: I think we should go back to the dawn of time. 62 00:04:05,596 --> 00:04:08,916 Speaker 2: So there was the Big Bang, and that molic Jules 63 00:04:09,116 --> 00:04:15,356 Speaker 2: carently came along anyway, so it's actually it's actually an 64 00:04:15,356 --> 00:04:19,636 Speaker 2: incredible story. So I had finished my film Syriana, which 65 00:04:19,676 --> 00:04:21,636 Speaker 2: took a lot, was like a four four and a 66 00:04:21,676 --> 00:04:24,796 Speaker 2: half year effort, and I was and it was intense, 67 00:04:24,876 --> 00:04:26,076 Speaker 2: and then I was like, what am I going to 68 00:04:26,156 --> 00:04:30,956 Speaker 2: do next? So I'm sitting in Cavigtan and I I 69 00:04:31,036 --> 00:04:35,636 Speaker 2: had this idea, this crazy idea, this is way before Twilight. 70 00:04:35,676 --> 00:04:39,636 Speaker 2: I wanted to do a vampire love story. And actually 71 00:04:39,676 --> 00:04:41,556 Speaker 2: what I wanted to do was a love store, a 72 00:04:41,636 --> 00:04:44,276 Speaker 2: tragic love story with a happy ending. And I was like, 73 00:04:44,636 --> 00:04:46,516 Speaker 2: kept thinking about, thinking about thinking about it, and then I 74 00:04:46,556 --> 00:04:50,676 Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, the guy is a vampire. 75 00:04:51,316 --> 00:04:54,236 Speaker 2: The love stories are as good as the things that 76 00:04:54,356 --> 00:04:58,316 Speaker 2: keep the lovers apart. So picture picture a horse farm 77 00:04:58,356 --> 00:05:02,316 Speaker 2: in Kentucky. It's winter that the you know, suddenly the 78 00:05:02,396 --> 00:05:04,516 Speaker 2: smoke starts coming out of a chimney. You know, these 79 00:05:04,516 --> 00:05:07,316 Speaker 2: big farms are all owned by Europeans who are mysterious. 80 00:05:07,356 --> 00:05:10,836 Speaker 2: This guy comes to town and he meets like a 81 00:05:10,956 --> 00:05:14,916 Speaker 2: veterinarian on the farm, and the sparks fly. They obviously 82 00:05:14,916 --> 00:05:16,676 Speaker 2: are really into each other, but then there's also all 83 00:05:16,716 --> 00:05:20,396 Speaker 2: these weird deaths that start happening around some animals, some people. 84 00:05:21,276 --> 00:05:23,876 Speaker 2: Her brothers, her family decide this guy as the one 85 00:05:23,876 --> 00:05:28,036 Speaker 2: who's doing it, and so they decide, you know, enough's enough, 86 00:05:28,116 --> 00:05:32,476 Speaker 2: they're gonna kill him. So they poison him. Now she's 87 00:05:32,516 --> 00:05:35,396 Speaker 2: in love with him. She discovers him right the sun 88 00:05:35,476 --> 00:05:38,876 Speaker 2: is setting. He's been poisoned, you know, they think he's dead, 89 00:05:38,956 --> 00:05:42,396 Speaker 2: they've gone. She finds him. She thinks he's committed suicide 90 00:05:42,436 --> 00:05:45,396 Speaker 2: by drinking the poison. Romeo and Juliet. She's so distraught 91 00:05:45,476 --> 00:05:48,516 Speaker 2: all she could do is drink the poison herself. As 92 00:05:48,596 --> 00:05:52,716 Speaker 2: she's dying. The sun is setting. The vampire's waking up, 93 00:05:53,196 --> 00:05:55,596 Speaker 2: and he sees her there and realizes what's happened, and 94 00:05:55,636 --> 00:05:57,836 Speaker 2: he has to do the one thing that he swore 95 00:05:57,916 --> 00:06:00,116 Speaker 2: he would never do, which is reveal his true self 96 00:06:00,316 --> 00:06:03,596 Speaker 2: and bite her, and so she dies. But they then 97 00:06:03,636 --> 00:06:06,876 Speaker 2: wakes up to internal happiness, being in love with the guys. 98 00:06:06,916 --> 00:06:11,236 Speaker 2: And I was like, too much gepticism from every representative 99 00:06:11,276 --> 00:06:14,276 Speaker 2: in my life. They're like, you cannot write a vampire movie. 100 00:06:14,356 --> 00:06:17,596 Speaker 2: It is impossible, like you've done you know, know any whatever. 101 00:06:17,676 --> 00:06:21,956 Speaker 2: So I'm sitting in cave Gittan trying to write my 102 00:06:22,036 --> 00:06:24,876 Speaker 2: vampire love story. I never got past page ten or twelve. 103 00:06:24,916 --> 00:06:28,356 Speaker 2: And so I'm reading I'm reading your book, Blink, Blink. 104 00:06:28,396 --> 00:06:32,196 Speaker 2: And I'm sitting in there reading Blink quite happily. Every day, 105 00:06:32,276 --> 00:06:35,276 Speaker 2: drinking my coffee, failing at writing my vampire love story, 106 00:06:35,476 --> 00:06:40,716 Speaker 2: and in and out, every once in a while comes 107 00:06:41,556 --> 00:06:44,356 Speaker 2: a plucky young actor that I'm pretty sure is going places, 108 00:06:44,356 --> 00:06:48,476 Speaker 2: by the name of Leonardo DiCaprio, And so Leo sees 109 00:06:48,516 --> 00:06:53,876 Speaker 2: me there, and Leo, Leo had been interested in playing 110 00:06:53,876 --> 00:06:57,316 Speaker 2: the role in Sirianna that Matt Damon ultimately played. And 111 00:06:57,356 --> 00:07:00,236 Speaker 2: in fact, if you know Leo at all, like he 112 00:07:00,276 --> 00:07:02,356 Speaker 2: never really says yes, but he never says no, so 113 00:07:02,436 --> 00:07:04,916 Speaker 2: he never passes, Like I honestly think he still thinks 114 00:07:04,956 --> 00:07:07,316 Speaker 2: he can be in Syriana, Like it's just like still available. 115 00:07:07,356 --> 00:07:13,116 Speaker 2: And so anyway, now I see him in Jitan and 116 00:07:13,156 --> 00:07:16,476 Speaker 2: he's like, Hey, we gotta what are you doing? We 117 00:07:16,516 --> 00:07:18,916 Speaker 2: got to cook something up? What do you what are you? 118 00:07:19,116 --> 00:07:20,996 Speaker 2: What are you interested in? Let's come up with something. 119 00:07:21,636 --> 00:07:24,316 Speaker 2: And I'm like, I think this could be a movie, 120 00:07:24,356 --> 00:07:26,876 Speaker 2: like a really you know, I think there's a movie 121 00:07:26,956 --> 00:07:29,876 Speaker 2: in here. Now, if you're knowing your book as you do, 122 00:07:30,476 --> 00:07:34,236 Speaker 2: you realize that's a very challenging adaptation, right. 123 00:07:34,156 --> 00:07:37,196 Speaker 1: Right, Blink is nothing like a vampire love story. 124 00:07:37,036 --> 00:07:38,716 Speaker 2: Right like you and I. You know, cut to a 125 00:07:38,796 --> 00:07:40,436 Speaker 2: year from this point, you and I will cook up 126 00:07:40,436 --> 00:07:43,676 Speaker 2: a totally different story. But he's looking at me and 127 00:07:43,676 --> 00:07:46,156 Speaker 2: he goes, I'll do it. Let's do it. That's a 128 00:07:46,196 --> 00:07:51,356 Speaker 2: great idea. So that's then that precipitated me. I think 129 00:07:52,116 --> 00:07:55,396 Speaker 2: maybe calling you out of the blue, just say. 130 00:07:56,916 --> 00:08:02,316 Speaker 1: Hi, and this is what it's like two thousand and five. 131 00:08:03,156 --> 00:08:05,996 Speaker 2: Maybe two thousand and six or seven. 132 00:08:06,876 --> 00:08:10,116 Speaker 1: When do we go at some point the story? So 133 00:08:10,236 --> 00:08:13,236 Speaker 1: we we decided we would do something which makes no 134 00:08:13,396 --> 00:08:19,236 Speaker 1: practical sense, which is turned Blink into a movie. You 135 00:08:19,316 --> 00:08:21,796 Speaker 1: were from the very beginning, as ever, call attracted to 136 00:08:21,836 --> 00:08:25,396 Speaker 1: a very very specific thing in Blink, the notion. 137 00:08:25,236 --> 00:08:31,236 Speaker 2: Of what I liked, the idea that somebody could have 138 00:08:33,076 --> 00:08:38,356 Speaker 2: a like almost a truth a truth detector, you know, 139 00:08:38,436 --> 00:08:42,876 Speaker 2: that a person could have this really heightened sense of 140 00:08:42,996 --> 00:08:46,556 Speaker 2: when people were being honest or not, and that they 141 00:08:46,556 --> 00:08:49,876 Speaker 2: could you know, they had like incredible empathy or or 142 00:08:50,156 --> 00:08:51,996 Speaker 2: who knows what it is, you know, but it's just 143 00:08:52,276 --> 00:08:54,956 Speaker 2: it's like a fact of life. And for this for 144 00:08:55,076 --> 00:08:59,236 Speaker 2: someone it's also it's a little heavy in some ways. 145 00:08:59,276 --> 00:09:00,996 Speaker 2: But it's quite interesting in the world we live in 146 00:09:01,076 --> 00:09:03,556 Speaker 2: because I just at that time and I don't think 147 00:09:03,596 --> 00:09:05,836 Speaker 2: it's changed a lot. I felt like, you know, a 148 00:09:05,876 --> 00:09:09,236 Speaker 2: lot of people are saying one thing and doing another. Yeah, 149 00:09:09,396 --> 00:09:11,316 Speaker 2: this person would always feel a little bit ahead of 150 00:09:11,316 --> 00:09:11,756 Speaker 2: that curve. 151 00:09:12,116 --> 00:09:15,476 Speaker 1: This is because I had in Blink a chapter where 152 00:09:15,476 --> 00:09:18,516 Speaker 1: I talked about the idea that a very small number 153 00:09:18,556 --> 00:09:23,876 Speaker 1: of people may have the gift of telling when someone's lying, 154 00:09:24,636 --> 00:09:26,196 Speaker 1: and I taught it's all about the research of a 155 00:09:26,196 --> 00:09:29,996 Speaker 1: guy named Paul Eckman in San Francisco, is a legendary 156 00:09:30,076 --> 00:09:34,396 Speaker 1: figure in light detection world. And this predates there's subsequently 157 00:09:34,396 --> 00:09:37,916 Speaker 1: where all these TV shows about people who knew when 158 00:09:37,956 --> 00:09:39,916 Speaker 1: someone was lying. This predates all of that. 159 00:09:41,036 --> 00:09:44,356 Speaker 2: Yeah, but way before that, you know, So you and I, 160 00:09:45,116 --> 00:09:48,396 Speaker 2: you know, we get together, we start talking about it, 161 00:09:48,396 --> 00:09:52,996 Speaker 2: and I think very quickly we realize we have nothing, 162 00:09:53,036 --> 00:09:54,436 Speaker 2: like what are we going to do exactly? 163 00:09:55,796 --> 00:09:59,436 Speaker 1: But we come up with an idea. I have no 164 00:09:59,516 --> 00:10:03,996 Speaker 1: idea how this comes up, But give me your memory 165 00:10:04,556 --> 00:10:07,996 Speaker 1: of the story that we that emerged out of our collaboration. 166 00:10:08,116 --> 00:10:12,196 Speaker 2: So something you and I were both interested in was 167 00:10:12,276 --> 00:10:15,476 Speaker 2: the looming you know, it was how giant so how 168 00:10:15,556 --> 00:10:19,556 Speaker 2: corporations treated their retired employees because they had these pension funds, 169 00:10:19,676 --> 00:10:22,796 Speaker 2: right that were like these giant boxes of money, and 170 00:10:22,876 --> 00:10:25,436 Speaker 2: suddenly out there in the world, these like leverage buyout 171 00:10:25,436 --> 00:10:27,476 Speaker 2: people and hedge fund people were going, oh my gosh, 172 00:10:27,516 --> 00:10:30,436 Speaker 2: look at that. There's this giant box of money. That's 173 00:10:30,476 --> 00:10:32,716 Speaker 2: one thing, but then there are all these obligations that 174 00:10:32,756 --> 00:10:35,876 Speaker 2: are unfunded to these workers. Now, if you could somehow 175 00:10:35,956 --> 00:10:38,676 Speaker 2: buy that company and get rid of all of those 176 00:10:38,756 --> 00:10:42,676 Speaker 2: unfunded obligations that are weighing down the company, you could 177 00:10:42,716 --> 00:10:45,316 Speaker 2: have a really profitable company. You go from having a 178 00:10:45,356 --> 00:10:47,716 Speaker 2: bankrupt company to actually a company that works really well. 179 00:10:47,996 --> 00:10:49,676 Speaker 2: You know. The only bad part of that story is 180 00:10:49,676 --> 00:10:51,876 Speaker 2: that the people that actually put in the forty years 181 00:10:51,956 --> 00:10:54,356 Speaker 2: or thirty years of work, you know, are left actually 182 00:10:54,356 --> 00:10:57,316 Speaker 2: without their pensions or without healthcare with that very reduced 183 00:10:57,356 --> 00:11:01,156 Speaker 2: pension support. And I think we were sensing that not 184 00:11:01,196 --> 00:11:02,876 Speaker 2: only was this starting to happen, but it was going 185 00:11:02,916 --> 00:11:05,196 Speaker 2: to happen in a really really big way. And I 186 00:11:05,236 --> 00:11:07,956 Speaker 2: think very quickly we kind of got interested in and 187 00:11:07,956 --> 00:11:10,596 Speaker 2: we were thinking about motors, you know, and we saw 188 00:11:10,676 --> 00:11:14,036 Speaker 2: this kind of general motors bankruptcy coming and that the 189 00:11:14,116 --> 00:11:16,676 Speaker 2: pension stuff would be like at the dead center of it, 190 00:11:17,036 --> 00:11:19,236 Speaker 2: and we ended up making up our own fictional like 191 00:11:19,316 --> 00:11:24,076 Speaker 2: steel company, American Steel, and American Steel was basically being 192 00:11:24,076 --> 00:11:27,236 Speaker 2: put in play, you know, by a kind of hedge 193 00:11:27,236 --> 00:11:30,556 Speaker 2: fund operator who unbeknownst to him has a son, a 194 00:11:30,676 --> 00:11:32,916 Speaker 2: kind of wayward son. So it's a father son's story, 195 00:11:32,916 --> 00:11:36,676 Speaker 2: and his wayward son has this truth detection, the ability 196 00:11:36,956 --> 00:11:40,396 Speaker 2: yeah he that he becomes aware of over the course 197 00:11:40,436 --> 00:11:40,916 Speaker 2: of the film. 198 00:11:41,276 --> 00:11:45,836 Speaker 1: So you see, you're you've the genius thing about your idea? 199 00:11:45,996 --> 00:11:48,836 Speaker 1: Was you when you were telling it? Initially you started 200 00:11:48,836 --> 00:11:55,236 Speaker 1: with we have one of these prototypical ruthless Wall Street 201 00:11:55,756 --> 00:11:59,796 Speaker 1: predators who's like got the fancy apartment on Fifth Avenue, 202 00:11:59,876 --> 00:12:03,036 Speaker 1: the huge house out and go in, you know, in 203 00:12:03,036 --> 00:12:06,836 Speaker 1: in the Hampton's and he's everything you And he has 204 00:12:06,916 --> 00:12:13,516 Speaker 1: this a son from whom he is estranged, right, a 205 00:12:13,516 --> 00:12:16,556 Speaker 1: son who shares none of his father's values, but who 206 00:12:16,596 --> 00:12:19,916 Speaker 1: desperately wants and cannot get his father's approval. You started 207 00:12:19,916 --> 00:12:23,076 Speaker 1: with this really powerful family dynamic which was going to 208 00:12:23,156 --> 00:12:25,516 Speaker 1: be the engine of the movie. What does a son 209 00:12:26,636 --> 00:12:29,316 Speaker 1: do if he wants to win his father's love and 210 00:12:29,396 --> 00:12:32,916 Speaker 1: yet he is incapable of competing on any of the 211 00:12:33,036 --> 00:12:36,356 Speaker 1: terms of his father's world. Right, the son was a 212 00:12:36,436 --> 00:12:38,756 Speaker 1: school teacher, wasn't he a school teacher or like teaching 213 00:12:38,796 --> 00:12:39,796 Speaker 1: in Harlem? 214 00:12:40,076 --> 00:12:43,156 Speaker 2: He was. He had taken a very long time to 215 00:12:43,196 --> 00:12:47,716 Speaker 2: graduate from college, like over a decade, and you know, 216 00:12:47,836 --> 00:12:51,436 Speaker 2: is generally considered a lay about and kind of a 217 00:12:51,476 --> 00:12:56,356 Speaker 2: loser and definitely in his own mind. And now he's 218 00:12:56,396 --> 00:13:00,116 Speaker 2: graduating maybe, and he doesn't know what to do, and 219 00:13:00,476 --> 00:13:06,396 Speaker 2: the dad is sort of loosely amenable to perhaps providing 220 00:13:06,476 --> 00:13:10,796 Speaker 2: him a cubicle his headge found upingtechut or whatever, and 221 00:13:10,876 --> 00:13:13,116 Speaker 2: he goes to work in this kind of shark shark 222 00:13:13,196 --> 00:13:14,876 Speaker 2: environment that he's not at all suited for. 223 00:13:15,836 --> 00:13:21,156 Speaker 1: His dad doesn't know that the son has this gift, 224 00:13:21,596 --> 00:13:24,236 Speaker 1: this magical gift of knowing whether someone's lying or not. 225 00:13:24,756 --> 00:13:27,276 Speaker 1: He's no clue that his son has this. He's he 226 00:13:27,316 --> 00:13:30,556 Speaker 1: perceives his son as a loser without any kind of 227 00:13:31,876 --> 00:13:34,356 Speaker 1: you know, without any kind of special gifts or abilities. 228 00:13:34,356 --> 00:13:36,636 Speaker 1: And he's doing his he's tossing his son a bone 229 00:13:36,796 --> 00:13:39,436 Speaker 1: is not the son is still on the outside of 230 00:13:39,476 --> 00:13:40,836 Speaker 1: disappointment in his father's eyes. 231 00:13:41,156 --> 00:13:42,956 Speaker 2: I think it's important to place this film like in 232 00:13:42,996 --> 00:13:45,996 Speaker 2: the right tone. It has like a hal ash f 233 00:13:46,156 --> 00:13:48,196 Speaker 2: vibe to it, you know, it feels like a little 234 00:13:48,236 --> 00:13:49,796 Speaker 2: bit like it's in the it's in the tone of 235 00:13:49,876 --> 00:13:52,196 Speaker 2: Harold and Maud or in the tone of the maybe 236 00:13:52,196 --> 00:13:54,276 Speaker 2: the graduate even like that's I know, that was like 237 00:13:54,356 --> 00:13:56,556 Speaker 2: something I was really really thinking about, like what are 238 00:13:56,556 --> 00:13:59,676 Speaker 2: the what are the pressures on young people right now 239 00:13:59,836 --> 00:14:02,396 Speaker 2: when they like are looking at what's my future? It 240 00:14:02,436 --> 00:14:03,996 Speaker 2: allows you to have a little bit of a shaggy 241 00:14:04,036 --> 00:14:06,836 Speaker 2: dog story, but there's like, you know, like you're pointing 242 00:14:06,836 --> 00:14:11,636 Speaker 2: out really heartfelt, motional and kind of dynamic you know, 243 00:14:11,676 --> 00:14:16,316 Speaker 2: of wanting a father's love. And then yes, it's moving. 244 00:14:16,836 --> 00:14:22,276 Speaker 1: And so the core little, the core little plot point 245 00:14:22,756 --> 00:14:26,596 Speaker 1: is this weird quirk of bankruptcy law that if you 246 00:14:26,996 --> 00:14:30,276 Speaker 1: to go back to your your, your, your, what you 247 00:14:30,356 --> 00:14:33,316 Speaker 1: began with that they're with these companies that seemed to 248 00:14:33,356 --> 00:14:36,236 Speaker 1: bankrupt but had this large pool of cash tied up 249 00:14:36,316 --> 00:14:39,636 Speaker 1: in a retirement account for their employees. If a company 250 00:14:39,716 --> 00:14:41,716 Speaker 1: is in bankruptcy, it is at the mercy of a 251 00:14:41,716 --> 00:14:45,876 Speaker 1: bankruptcy judge, and bankruptcy law is unique in all law, 252 00:14:46,116 --> 00:14:49,676 Speaker 1: and that it grants enormous discretion to the judge. So 253 00:14:50,276 --> 00:14:53,076 Speaker 1: there are judges out there if they want to, they 254 00:14:53,116 --> 00:14:55,996 Speaker 1: could waive a magic wand and say you can take 255 00:14:55,996 --> 00:14:59,796 Speaker 1: this company out of bankruptcy and all the money in 256 00:14:59,876 --> 00:15:03,716 Speaker 1: the retirement account is yours. Or another judge might say 257 00:15:04,036 --> 00:15:06,676 Speaker 1: you can have the company, but you must honor every 258 00:15:06,716 --> 00:15:10,236 Speaker 1: single obligation you have towards the retirement your employees. It's 259 00:15:10,356 --> 00:15:14,516 Speaker 1: up to the judge. So if you're a robber baron, 260 00:15:14,916 --> 00:15:17,876 Speaker 1: you're a predator, you're some hedge fun guy Connecticut, and 261 00:15:17,916 --> 00:15:20,596 Speaker 1: you're eyeing a bankrupt company and trying to figure out 262 00:15:20,596 --> 00:15:24,276 Speaker 1: whether you can make it work. Everything depends on which 263 00:15:24,396 --> 00:15:28,956 Speaker 1: judge oversees this particular case in bankruptcy court. 264 00:15:29,556 --> 00:15:33,436 Speaker 2: It's incredibly it's incredibly fun as a plot mechanism because 265 00:15:33,636 --> 00:15:38,036 Speaker 2: now you're just you know, billions and billions ride on, 266 00:15:38,716 --> 00:15:43,636 Speaker 2: essentially gaming the system, which which of these potential judges, 267 00:15:43,796 --> 00:15:48,276 Speaker 2: if you could somehow manipulate it is most likely to 268 00:15:48,276 --> 00:15:51,796 Speaker 2: be friendly to your particular robber baron. 269 00:15:51,876 --> 00:15:55,916 Speaker 1: Cause yeah, yeah, So the Sun realizes this and goes 270 00:15:55,956 --> 00:15:59,036 Speaker 1: to the dad. The dad is totally unsure what to do. 271 00:16:00,356 --> 00:16:02,476 Speaker 1: His options are just what to do, just to roll 272 00:16:02,516 --> 00:16:05,076 Speaker 1: the dice? Does he does he buy this thing, take 273 00:16:05,076 --> 00:16:06,756 Speaker 1: it to bank, and take the risk that he could 274 00:16:06,796 --> 00:16:10,036 Speaker 1: be completely screwed by some kind of pro worker judge. 275 00:16:10,396 --> 00:16:12,916 Speaker 1: But the son comes to the dad and says, Dad, 276 00:16:12,956 --> 00:16:16,276 Speaker 1: you I need to tell you something about myself. I 277 00:16:16,356 --> 00:16:19,876 Speaker 1: have this gift I can I can see into someone's heart. 278 00:16:20,676 --> 00:16:22,596 Speaker 1: And the dad of course rolls his eyes and says, 279 00:16:22,996 --> 00:16:26,676 Speaker 1: you're bullshitting me. So the son sets out to prove 280 00:16:26,756 --> 00:16:30,756 Speaker 1: to his dad he knows that he can see into 281 00:16:30,756 --> 00:16:34,236 Speaker 1: someone's soul. And then Disney have a series of tests. 282 00:16:34,316 --> 00:16:37,916 Speaker 1: There's the other three tests that he he undergoes to 283 00:16:37,956 --> 00:16:40,876 Speaker 1: prove to his dad he has this this magical ability. 284 00:16:41,116 --> 00:16:43,076 Speaker 2: So part of the thing with the with the movie 285 00:16:43,076 --> 00:16:46,476 Speaker 2: that I think worked really well is that the son 286 00:16:47,436 --> 00:16:50,316 Speaker 2: finds out about the gift during the during the movie 287 00:16:50,316 --> 00:16:53,876 Speaker 2: as well, so he wasn't he wasn't like swaning around 288 00:16:53,916 --> 00:16:57,916 Speaker 2: saying I have a superpower. He actually runs across the 289 00:16:57,956 --> 00:17:00,796 Speaker 2: professor who's doing this kind of research, and the professor 290 00:17:00,876 --> 00:17:04,636 Speaker 2: is a character like he's a gambling addict. He realizes 291 00:17:04,636 --> 00:17:06,476 Speaker 2: that you know, they run this test where they're like 292 00:17:06,516 --> 00:17:09,036 Speaker 2: it's something some some ridiculous thing. It's like people say 293 00:17:09,236 --> 00:17:12,236 Speaker 2: the line I had a ham sandwich for lunch. Oh, 294 00:17:12,396 --> 00:17:14,796 Speaker 2: like hundreds of people I had a ham sandwich for lunch. 295 00:17:14,876 --> 00:17:16,636 Speaker 2: And he drags this kid in there and he's like 296 00:17:16,636 --> 00:17:18,716 Speaker 2: who's lying and who's telling the truth. And he watches 297 00:17:18,796 --> 00:17:20,556 Speaker 2: like one hundred and fifty people saying I had a 298 00:17:20,556 --> 00:17:22,916 Speaker 2: ham sandwich for lunch, and he gets one hundred and 299 00:17:22,996 --> 00:17:27,756 Speaker 2: fifty of them right, and the guy is like immediately 300 00:17:27,796 --> 00:17:30,156 Speaker 2: takes him to the race track like out to Belmont, 301 00:17:30,716 --> 00:17:32,956 Speaker 2: puts his binoculars to his eyes and starts having him 302 00:17:32,996 --> 00:17:35,836 Speaker 2: look at horses. Which horse is going to win this race? 303 00:17:36,276 --> 00:17:37,996 Speaker 2: And he's like looking at the horse and he's like 304 00:17:38,036 --> 00:17:39,796 Speaker 2: this is absurd, and the horse he's like, no, no horses 305 00:17:39,796 --> 00:17:41,916 Speaker 2: have in her lives, Like what's going on? And he 306 00:17:41,956 --> 00:17:44,756 Speaker 2: starts like telling him about the emotional lives of these 307 00:17:44,796 --> 00:17:47,156 Speaker 2: horses that you know who are getting ready to go 308 00:17:47,236 --> 00:17:50,676 Speaker 2: into the into the starting gate, and like one is 309 00:17:50,716 --> 00:17:53,516 Speaker 2: like thinking about dinner and one has like had a 310 00:17:53,556 --> 00:17:57,836 Speaker 2: bad sexual experience recently and feeling really shameful, and like 311 00:17:57,876 --> 00:18:01,356 Speaker 2: they're all just and he's started by process of elimination. 312 00:18:01,476 --> 00:18:03,036 Speaker 2: He's like, it's going to be this one. It's gonna 313 00:18:03,036 --> 00:18:04,956 Speaker 2: be the Philly. The Philly's gonna win. Yeah, And so 314 00:18:06,396 --> 00:18:08,996 Speaker 2: this professor, who's like literally a gambly, he ends up 315 00:18:09,356 --> 00:18:12,796 Speaker 2: betting like to like fifteen grand like at the track 316 00:18:12,916 --> 00:18:15,196 Speaker 2: and then money through bookies. And the kid is watching 317 00:18:15,236 --> 00:18:17,516 Speaker 2: him and he's like, this guy's a psychopath, you know. 318 00:18:17,636 --> 00:18:20,476 Speaker 2: And then photo finished, and then of course the Philly wins, 319 00:18:20,556 --> 00:18:24,156 Speaker 2: and you know, and our character doesn't believe it, you know, 320 00:18:24,276 --> 00:18:26,476 Speaker 2: he just thinks this is complete nonsense, and he sort 321 00:18:26,476 --> 00:18:28,236 Speaker 2: of proves it to him over and over and over. 322 00:18:28,676 --> 00:18:32,436 Speaker 1: The Professor, by the way, is based on a man 323 00:18:32,476 --> 00:18:37,716 Speaker 1: named Sylvan Tompkins, one of the true legends of early 324 00:18:37,796 --> 00:18:41,596 Speaker 1: twentieth century mid century psychology, who had convinced himself that 325 00:18:41,716 --> 00:18:47,156 Speaker 1: he could read people's in ourselves. And also the thing 326 00:18:47,196 --> 00:18:50,356 Speaker 1: about going to the horses. That's Tompkins. He would frequent 327 00:18:51,116 --> 00:18:54,116 Speaker 1: the horse racing and horse races. He was a pen 328 00:18:54,476 --> 00:18:56,676 Speaker 1: He would go to to the horse races in Philadelphia 329 00:18:56,876 --> 00:18:58,956 Speaker 1: and he would try and use all of his theories 330 00:18:58,996 --> 00:19:03,716 Speaker 1: about human emotion to pick winners. So that was all 331 00:19:03,756 --> 00:19:09,356 Speaker 1: straight from this he was this autodidact guy, and he 332 00:19:09,796 --> 00:19:13,356 Speaker 1: wrote a book detailing his theories. And the book was 333 00:19:13,636 --> 00:19:15,996 Speaker 1: The line about the book was the book was so 334 00:19:16,156 --> 00:19:20,756 Speaker 1: long no one read it, even Sylvan I always loved it. 335 00:19:20,836 --> 00:19:23,996 Speaker 2: And eventually he, you know, at this inflection point with 336 00:19:24,116 --> 00:19:26,516 Speaker 2: his father where that where they're not you know, the 337 00:19:26,596 --> 00:19:30,036 Speaker 2: opportunities inside the family business or or not. You know, 338 00:19:30,036 --> 00:19:31,796 Speaker 2: they're they're they're not going to work out for him. 339 00:19:32,516 --> 00:19:34,716 Speaker 2: He like, as he realizes he has like a hail 340 00:19:34,796 --> 00:19:39,396 Speaker 2: Mary pitch, which is, I can actually make sure you 341 00:19:39,516 --> 00:19:41,916 Speaker 2: get the result you want right right with the bankruptcy 342 00:19:41,996 --> 00:19:44,076 Speaker 2: judge and the data of course is a skeptic. He 343 00:19:44,156 --> 00:19:49,636 Speaker 2: doesn't believe it either, and like, you know, you know, 344 00:19:49,836 --> 00:19:52,076 Speaker 2: like I hadn't. I hadn't you know, look, I hadn't 345 00:19:52,156 --> 00:19:54,396 Speaker 2: thought about the scripture and looked at it. And I 346 00:19:54,476 --> 00:19:58,036 Speaker 2: mean a long time, probably fifteen years, fifteen years. Yeah, 347 00:19:58,116 --> 00:20:00,756 Speaker 2: and I am I didn't even I couldn't even find 348 00:20:00,796 --> 00:20:02,556 Speaker 2: the blink folder. And I was like, and then I 349 00:20:02,756 --> 00:20:05,756 Speaker 2: just searched for Blink and then up came a bunch 350 00:20:05,836 --> 00:20:08,876 Speaker 2: of stuff and like and and and the draft. And 351 00:20:08,916 --> 00:20:10,676 Speaker 2: it's so funny because you get to know that you know, 352 00:20:10,876 --> 00:20:14,716 Speaker 2: you put so much effort, you know, into trying to 353 00:20:14,756 --> 00:20:17,476 Speaker 2: make these movies, and like it's so much love. It's love, 354 00:20:17,556 --> 00:20:19,996 Speaker 2: and like it feels like life or death. And I 355 00:20:20,156 --> 00:20:22,956 Speaker 2: just I just clicked on it and like page sixty 356 00:20:23,036 --> 00:20:25,796 Speaker 2: five and up comes and this is this is dialogue. 357 00:20:26,196 --> 00:20:30,116 Speaker 2: I completely forgotten this. This is dialogue between the kid 358 00:20:30,236 --> 00:20:34,236 Speaker 2: and his dad and they're trying to like and they're 359 00:20:34,356 --> 00:20:38,276 Speaker 2: they're at like a local, really cheesy drinking place in 360 00:20:38,476 --> 00:20:41,796 Speaker 2: Greenwich where his half brother plays in a band called 361 00:20:41,836 --> 00:20:44,116 Speaker 2: The Margin Calls. And he's there with his family and 362 00:20:44,196 --> 00:20:47,076 Speaker 2: his step mom and they're all nodding along while this 363 00:20:47,236 --> 00:20:50,436 Speaker 2: bro band does cover cover cover songs, you know, and 364 00:20:50,516 --> 00:20:53,996 Speaker 2: they're eating like, you know, French dips or whatever, and 365 00:20:54,676 --> 00:20:58,916 Speaker 2: his dad's a little tipsy and he's like and he's like, 366 00:20:59,276 --> 00:21:00,996 Speaker 2: you know, this is all coming to a head. He's like, 367 00:21:01,076 --> 00:21:04,356 Speaker 2: am I sorry? I never carpooled or sliced oranges for 368 00:21:04,436 --> 00:21:07,196 Speaker 2: T ball? I don't know. I used to say that 369 00:21:07,276 --> 00:21:11,476 Speaker 2: they asked Napoleon to do reading circle and Teddy's like, 370 00:21:11,716 --> 00:21:14,476 Speaker 2: the kid is like, we did some stuff. We looked 371 00:21:14,476 --> 00:21:14,996 Speaker 2: at pictures. 372 00:21:15,116 --> 00:21:18,876 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Redmond. The dad is Redmond. The son is 373 00:21:18,996 --> 00:21:19,876 Speaker 1: ted Teddy. 374 00:21:20,116 --> 00:21:22,756 Speaker 2: Exactly who went to the Met together. I remember going 375 00:21:22,796 --> 00:21:25,196 Speaker 2: to the Met. I think I do, and he does 376 00:21:25,236 --> 00:21:27,516 Speaker 2: his dad, you know, his dad imitates his dad and 377 00:21:27,556 --> 00:21:30,316 Speaker 2: he's like, American tycoons have to appear culture. So what's 378 00:21:30,356 --> 00:21:33,356 Speaker 2: the first thing they buy? And then together they say bronzes. 379 00:21:33,836 --> 00:21:36,636 Speaker 2: And now the dad's like JP Morgan Frick. Teddy's like 380 00:21:36,676 --> 00:21:38,956 Speaker 2: they had books, but they wanted to be renaissance men, 381 00:21:39,316 --> 00:21:42,636 Speaker 2: like the Duke of Urbino, and Redmond says, yeah, if 382 00:21:42,676 --> 00:21:45,396 Speaker 2: you're a real snob, you know that Castello and Rabino 383 00:21:45,596 --> 00:21:47,356 Speaker 2: like the back of your hand, but you don't. 384 00:21:47,156 --> 00:21:49,756 Speaker 1: Talk about it. And then. 385 00:21:51,156 --> 00:21:54,596 Speaker 2: Teddy says, and I think I remember a bedtime rhyme 386 00:21:55,156 --> 00:21:59,196 Speaker 2: about how much sleep a person needs, and he says 387 00:21:59,476 --> 00:22:04,636 Speaker 2: nature needs five, custom takes seven, laziness takes nine, and 388 00:22:04,836 --> 00:22:10,116 Speaker 2: wickedness eleven. A his dad looks at him and says 389 00:22:10,396 --> 00:22:12,236 Speaker 2: his dad looks at him for a long moment and goes, 390 00:22:12,916 --> 00:22:21,956 Speaker 2: I'd forgotten it's Scottish, which is I mean, it's really funny, Malcolm. 391 00:22:21,996 --> 00:22:24,276 Speaker 1: I mean it's like it's all coming back. There's a 392 00:22:24,276 --> 00:22:27,596 Speaker 1: beautiful scene I remember, I mean, one of the genius 393 00:22:27,676 --> 00:22:31,356 Speaker 1: things about the idea was exploiting the idea of how 394 00:22:31,596 --> 00:22:36,956 Speaker 1: genuinely conflicted the sun is about this discovery of his gift, 395 00:22:38,076 --> 00:22:39,916 Speaker 1: because isn't there a scene? Am I making this up? 396 00:22:40,276 --> 00:22:44,516 Speaker 1: He's on a date with a girl and the date 397 00:22:44,636 --> 00:22:48,596 Speaker 1: goes awry because he can tell every time she says 398 00:22:48,636 --> 00:22:51,836 Speaker 1: something that she doesn't believe, and you realize that dating 399 00:22:51,916 --> 00:22:54,156 Speaker 1: under those circumstances is impossible. 400 00:22:54,436 --> 00:22:58,436 Speaker 2: It's you realize that, like this thing that started out 401 00:22:58,436 --> 00:23:02,156 Speaker 2: as a joke is actually the thing that's defined his 402 00:23:02,436 --> 00:23:03,316 Speaker 2: entire life. 403 00:23:03,156 --> 00:23:04,876 Speaker 1: And he derailed his entire life. 404 00:23:04,956 --> 00:23:09,796 Speaker 2: It derailed it. It's it's made it impossible to trust 405 00:23:09,916 --> 00:23:12,996 Speaker 2: people in the normal flow of human interaction, you know, 406 00:23:14,316 --> 00:23:18,196 Speaker 2: because the dissembling is all laid bare. He's five steps 407 00:23:18,196 --> 00:23:21,556 Speaker 2: ahead of all of it, and he's just cut himself 408 00:23:21,596 --> 00:23:22,076 Speaker 2: off from it. 409 00:23:22,276 --> 00:23:25,596 Speaker 1: And so he is one chance at redemption, and that 410 00:23:25,756 --> 00:23:28,716 Speaker 1: is to finally use his gift to win back the 411 00:23:28,796 --> 00:23:32,396 Speaker 1: love of the person who he most wants to love him, 412 00:23:32,436 --> 00:23:38,996 Speaker 1: his dad. Right, So the dad tests Teddy's abilities, Teddy 413 00:23:39,036 --> 00:23:43,396 Speaker 1: wins each time, and Teddy is then given the job 414 00:23:43,916 --> 00:23:46,556 Speaker 1: of picking between Is it three different judges? 415 00:23:47,996 --> 00:23:48,796 Speaker 2: I think it must be. 416 00:23:50,356 --> 00:23:53,636 Speaker 1: There are three Canada judges, because you can. You can 417 00:23:53,756 --> 00:23:58,476 Speaker 1: jurisdiction shop in bankruptcy, so that there's three bankruptcy courts 418 00:23:58,516 --> 00:24:02,116 Speaker 1: the father can potentially file in, and the question is 419 00:24:02,196 --> 00:24:04,836 Speaker 1: which one should he file in, And the son's job 420 00:24:05,556 --> 00:24:07,516 Speaker 1: is to put it in retrospect. I have no idea 421 00:24:07,556 --> 00:24:09,756 Speaker 1: whether this is actually how bankruptcy all works, but this 422 00:24:09,876 --> 00:24:13,036 Speaker 1: was the version that we were that we were. But 423 00:24:13,276 --> 00:24:15,276 Speaker 1: so he's given the The son has given the job 424 00:24:15,356 --> 00:24:19,356 Speaker 1: of figuring out who is the judge most likely to 425 00:24:19,556 --> 00:24:23,076 Speaker 1: rule in his father's favor, and he goes and contrives 426 00:24:23,116 --> 00:24:25,836 Speaker 1: a reason right to to meet up with each one 427 00:24:25,916 --> 00:24:28,796 Speaker 1: of these judges and assess their fundamental character. 428 00:24:29,636 --> 00:24:32,076 Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember. I don't remember them all, but I 429 00:24:32,156 --> 00:24:35,396 Speaker 2: do remember. One was like he pretended to be an 430 00:24:35,556 --> 00:24:38,796 Speaker 2: s a T tutor from one of the judges judges 431 00:24:38,876 --> 00:24:41,716 Speaker 2: wayward sons, and he gets into their house and so 432 00:24:43,196 --> 00:24:45,996 Speaker 2: getting into like a kind of k conflict with this guy. 433 00:24:46,236 --> 00:24:47,916 Speaker 1: Doesn't he play golf with another guy? 434 00:24:48,596 --> 00:24:51,716 Speaker 2: I think so he does. He goes to play golf. Yeah, 435 00:24:53,356 --> 00:25:03,516 Speaker 2: I'm usually longer after the turn who says that Teddy 436 00:25:03,636 --> 00:25:07,916 Speaker 2: or the judge Teddy says it like he's terrible at golf, 437 00:25:09,516 --> 00:25:12,516 Speaker 2: and the guy's like, yeah. The guy says, try and 438 00:25:12,636 --> 00:25:19,676 Speaker 2: chip the ball back to the smooth stuff. The guy, 439 00:25:19,836 --> 00:25:22,476 Speaker 2: I just I've totally forgotten all this. He's like, let's 440 00:25:22,516 --> 00:25:24,476 Speaker 2: cut the craft. I know who you are, I know 441 00:25:24,556 --> 00:25:28,116 Speaker 2: who your father is. Human college. Oh, we're at an 442 00:25:28,116 --> 00:25:30,756 Speaker 2: eating club together at the pork Ar. Motto feed your 443 00:25:30,796 --> 00:25:31,596 Speaker 2: friends first. 444 00:25:36,196 --> 00:25:38,556 Speaker 1: Wait, so that judge is ruled out the judge, so 445 00:25:38,636 --> 00:25:41,556 Speaker 1: what are the judges sees through Teddy, It's like, get 446 00:25:41,636 --> 00:25:43,276 Speaker 1: out of here. I know what I know what game 447 00:25:43,316 --> 00:25:43,756 Speaker 1: you're playing. 448 00:25:44,396 --> 00:25:46,676 Speaker 2: Let's cut the crumb. There's no way I'm ruling against labor, 449 00:25:47,636 --> 00:25:51,956 Speaker 2: not in this climate, not in not in Pennsylvania. Impartiality, 450 00:25:52,036 --> 00:25:54,156 Speaker 2: my ass. They'll burn my house down and kill my family. 451 00:25:54,236 --> 00:25:59,356 Speaker 2: Tell him that. Toddy says, you're signing a death certificate 452 00:25:59,396 --> 00:26:02,996 Speaker 2: for American steel. And he says, yeah, Well, maybe we'll 453 00:26:02,996 --> 00:26:06,036 Speaker 2: get universal health care. Maybe Indian will have a social revolution, 454 00:26:06,236 --> 00:26:09,036 Speaker 2: pay their workers twenty seven to fifty an hour plus benefits. 455 00:26:09,156 --> 00:26:11,956 Speaker 2: Maybe Woodland gnomes will make auto parts for free, and 456 00:26:12,036 --> 00:26:15,956 Speaker 2: we'll all sit sherry in the park. And he says, 457 00:26:15,996 --> 00:26:18,036 Speaker 2: and he says, never ever pick up a golf club again. 458 00:26:20,396 --> 00:26:25,076 Speaker 2: That he says, I'm a tennis player. Golf is for assholes, the. 459 00:26:25,116 --> 00:26:28,156 Speaker 1: Whole whiff of class warfare. And this the script is 460 00:26:28,236 --> 00:26:29,236 Speaker 1: just ten years too soon. 461 00:26:30,756 --> 00:26:33,156 Speaker 2: When I was looking, I just was glancing at it, Malcolm, 462 00:26:33,236 --> 00:26:35,316 Speaker 2: like for fift like ten minutes before what we got 463 00:26:35,356 --> 00:26:36,996 Speaker 2: on here, and I was like, God, it's like. 464 00:26:37,476 --> 00:26:39,836 Speaker 1: It's for right now, It's for right now. It's so, 465 00:26:40,356 --> 00:26:44,076 Speaker 1: it's so for right now. All right, let's take a 466 00:26:44,116 --> 00:26:47,116 Speaker 1: little break. When we come back, Steve and I take 467 00:26:47,156 --> 00:27:08,676 Speaker 1: our script out on the town. Okay, so we're back. 468 00:27:09,436 --> 00:27:12,476 Speaker 1: Agents are now heavily involved, where it is leaked that 469 00:27:12,556 --> 00:27:15,916 Speaker 1: Stephen Gagan has a secret new project. There's a frantic 470 00:27:15,996 --> 00:27:18,996 Speaker 1: week where we find time on every movie executive's calendar. 471 00:27:19,476 --> 00:27:22,196 Speaker 1: The plan is to hit every studio over the course 472 00:27:22,236 --> 00:27:25,916 Speaker 1: of two days, which requires driving from the Valley to Hollywood, 473 00:27:26,196 --> 00:27:29,156 Speaker 1: Santa Monica to Culver City. We map our root like 474 00:27:29,236 --> 00:27:32,036 Speaker 1: it's the Invasion of Normandy. I fly out to La 475 00:27:32,516 --> 00:27:36,036 Speaker 1: because I am now fully in the fantasy. A book, 476 00:27:36,076 --> 00:27:40,556 Speaker 1: a bungalow at the bel Air Hotel. Steve Leo and 477 00:27:40,676 --> 00:27:43,076 Speaker 1: yes I'm calling him Leo at this point, meet for 478 00:27:43,196 --> 00:27:46,036 Speaker 1: drinks at the bell Air, but Steve is late, so 479 00:27:46,196 --> 00:27:47,756 Speaker 1: for a while it's just me and Leo in a 480 00:27:47,796 --> 00:27:49,836 Speaker 1: booth at the bar, and for the first time in 481 00:27:49,916 --> 00:27:55,236 Speaker 1: my life, I'm like where the paparazzi And the next morning, 482 00:27:55,916 --> 00:27:57,956 Speaker 1: off we go, all three of us. 483 00:27:59,556 --> 00:28:02,316 Speaker 3: Look we you know, we were really lucky, like we 484 00:28:02,476 --> 00:28:04,956 Speaker 3: had we had you know, from my perspective, it's like 485 00:28:04,956 --> 00:28:06,556 Speaker 3: we had Matt we had you you know, with this 486 00:28:06,676 --> 00:28:08,476 Speaker 3: amazing book that was like a huge you know, it 487 00:28:08,596 --> 00:28:12,036 Speaker 3: was really a best seller and everyone had read it, right, 488 00:28:12,236 --> 00:28:14,756 Speaker 3: so everyone knew the book, which is wonderful. 489 00:28:14,756 --> 00:28:18,196 Speaker 2: Everyone knew Tipping Point, and then we won the lottery 490 00:28:18,636 --> 00:28:22,676 Speaker 2: in that. Leonardo DiCaprio attached himself to the movie. So 491 00:28:23,116 --> 00:28:25,356 Speaker 2: when we were going around pitching it, you know, we're 492 00:28:25,396 --> 00:28:27,516 Speaker 2: meeting all these moguls, you know, on our day of 493 00:28:27,636 --> 00:28:30,796 Speaker 2: driving around in the old station wagon, we have Leonardo 494 00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:31,876 Speaker 2: DiCaprio with us. 495 00:28:33,116 --> 00:28:33,876 Speaker 1: It was hilarious. 496 00:28:34,316 --> 00:28:36,676 Speaker 2: So we're like we're like in there, like the three 497 00:28:36,756 --> 00:28:39,316 Speaker 2: of us, like the three Musketeers, like sitting on like 498 00:28:39,476 --> 00:28:42,636 Speaker 2: these couches and these big offices, you know, and we're 499 00:28:42,676 --> 00:28:45,556 Speaker 2: pitching our hearts out. And at the end of the day, 500 00:28:45,716 --> 00:28:48,396 Speaker 2: I think probably they're just like would kind of look 501 00:28:48,876 --> 00:28:50,876 Speaker 2: down the couch and there would be Leo kind of 502 00:28:50,956 --> 00:28:53,996 Speaker 2: you know, chuckling along. We would just nod, and I 503 00:28:54,076 --> 00:28:56,276 Speaker 2: think I think more or less people at that moment 504 00:28:56,356 --> 00:28:59,316 Speaker 2: we're like, we're in Yeah. Truly, we probably could have 505 00:28:59,396 --> 00:29:01,556 Speaker 2: just like moved our mouths and made no sound come out, 506 00:29:01,596 --> 00:29:02,796 Speaker 2: and we probably would have been Okay. 507 00:29:02,956 --> 00:29:04,876 Speaker 1: The amount of here, I must say, the entire time 508 00:29:04,916 --> 00:29:09,116 Speaker 1: we were with Leo, I was like, so so hopelessly starstrucks. 509 00:29:10,756 --> 00:29:11,436 Speaker 2: He's amazed. 510 00:29:11,596 --> 00:29:14,436 Speaker 1: He later may have become more famous later, but he 511 00:29:14,516 --> 00:29:18,436 Speaker 1: was on the cusp of his He was just genuine 512 00:29:18,916 --> 00:29:19,796 Speaker 1: heart throb moment. 513 00:29:21,316 --> 00:29:23,676 Speaker 2: I mean, he had everything a heart throb. But he's 514 00:29:23,716 --> 00:29:27,396 Speaker 2: also a really good actor, so he's like he has 515 00:29:27,556 --> 00:29:30,796 Speaker 2: all these things going on at the same time, and 516 00:29:30,916 --> 00:29:34,036 Speaker 2: you're when you're around him, you just you know, it's 517 00:29:34,076 --> 00:29:35,756 Speaker 2: hard not to be to be aware of it. 518 00:29:36,076 --> 00:29:39,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, now anything. So we took this out over the 519 00:29:39,716 --> 00:29:42,436 Speaker 1: course I believe of two days. Am I right? That 520 00:29:42,676 --> 00:29:45,676 Speaker 1: everyone we met with, with one exception, bid on it. 521 00:29:46,356 --> 00:29:49,876 Speaker 1: Everybody bit on it, yeah, everyone, and we were I 522 00:29:49,996 --> 00:29:53,396 Speaker 1: just remember being in your car driving down like whatever 523 00:29:54,516 --> 00:29:58,756 Speaker 1: Santa Monica Boulevard and just getting calls from your agent 524 00:29:59,276 --> 00:30:02,276 Speaker 1: with the new someone else's signed on wants to Bid. 525 00:30:02,876 --> 00:30:07,036 Speaker 2: It was just the most absurdly thrilling to this thing 526 00:30:07,876 --> 00:30:10,036 Speaker 2: was really exciting, and and it was just us just 527 00:30:10,236 --> 00:30:12,476 Speaker 2: driving around in an old station wagon. 528 00:30:14,156 --> 00:30:17,516 Speaker 1: To this day, my favorite pitch story was we went 529 00:30:17,516 --> 00:30:20,716 Speaker 1: to Warner Brothers, and the way we membe, we divided 530 00:30:20,836 --> 00:30:23,396 Speaker 1: up the pitch and so you did the story. I 531 00:30:23,516 --> 00:30:25,756 Speaker 1: did the science. So it's like roughly fifty to fifty, 532 00:30:25,876 --> 00:30:29,316 Speaker 1: or sometimes we mixed it up. Sometimes you would do 533 00:30:29,316 --> 00:30:30,796 Speaker 1: almost all of it and I would do almost all 534 00:30:30,836 --> 00:30:32,956 Speaker 1: of it. For some reason, the Warner Brothers one, I 535 00:30:33,076 --> 00:30:35,436 Speaker 1: did the most of the pitch, and there were I 536 00:30:35,476 --> 00:30:38,516 Speaker 1: knew no one in Hollywood my first time aver pitching movie. 537 00:30:38,996 --> 00:30:43,596 Speaker 1: Go into this gorgeous executive room and there are two 538 00:30:43,716 --> 00:30:46,676 Speaker 1: men in the room. One was very very tall and 539 00:30:46,916 --> 00:30:51,476 Speaker 1: very very handsome and charismatic and warm. One was short 540 00:30:51,676 --> 00:30:57,116 Speaker 1: and sort of angry and whatever. I'm not knowing any better, 541 00:30:57,236 --> 00:31:00,356 Speaker 1: assumed the tall, handsome one was the chairman of the 542 00:31:00,396 --> 00:31:06,556 Speaker 1: studio and that this short guy was some kind of underling, flunky, assistant, whatever. 543 00:31:06,996 --> 00:31:10,076 Speaker 1: So I pitched the entire script to the tall guy, 544 00:31:10,836 --> 00:31:15,556 Speaker 1: and then only to discover the short guy, who I've 545 00:31:15,596 --> 00:31:18,676 Speaker 1: been ignoring the entire time as a chairman of the studio, 546 00:31:18,916 --> 00:31:22,036 Speaker 1: and the tall guy is just some dude who was 547 00:31:22,116 --> 00:31:24,836 Speaker 1: just in the office that day. It was hilarious, And 548 00:31:24,916 --> 00:31:27,476 Speaker 1: of course they did, which made me think that maybe 549 00:31:27,556 --> 00:31:30,076 Speaker 1: the mistake we make. Maybe you know, maybe their reasons 550 00:31:30,116 --> 00:31:32,556 Speaker 1: for bidding were that if they're gonna come in here 551 00:31:32,596 --> 00:31:34,236 Speaker 1: and ignore me, I'm going to show them. 552 00:31:34,796 --> 00:31:40,956 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I remember, I remember that, but he never 553 00:31:41,036 --> 00:31:50,916 Speaker 2: got made. Yeah, there's I mean, I I think I 554 00:31:51,116 --> 00:31:53,996 Speaker 2: probably have information about that that you actually don't have, 555 00:31:54,436 --> 00:32:00,756 Speaker 2: that you may not even know, which you know, I 556 00:32:01,036 --> 00:32:02,036 Speaker 2: can explain. 557 00:32:03,356 --> 00:32:07,236 Speaker 1: When we come back the bidding war. And then Steve 558 00:32:07,316 --> 00:32:10,796 Speaker 1: tells me a story I'd never heard four, the story 559 00:32:11,196 --> 00:32:21,756 Speaker 1: of why things fell apart. So we get a real 560 00:32:21,836 --> 00:32:24,836 Speaker 1: life bidding war. The town went nuts. We were in 561 00:32:24,916 --> 00:32:28,196 Speaker 1: Steve's battered station wagon driving around LA and every half 562 00:32:28,236 --> 00:32:32,076 Speaker 1: an hour, Steve's agent would call Sony in Universal in 563 00:32:32,716 --> 00:32:35,876 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers in. We have the sun roof, open, the 564 00:32:35,956 --> 00:32:39,236 Speaker 1: windows down. I'm warning sunglasses. They never wear sunglasses. We 565 00:32:39,276 --> 00:32:41,916 Speaker 1: don't even need Leo anymore. He gets into his Prius 566 00:32:42,036 --> 00:32:44,996 Speaker 1: and drives home. We pick a studio, We huddle with 567 00:32:45,036 --> 00:32:48,676 Speaker 1: our agents we pick a winner, checks are cashed, some 568 00:32:48,876 --> 00:32:52,556 Speaker 1: brilliant producer is assigned to our case, and off we go. 569 00:32:53,556 --> 00:32:59,116 Speaker 1: Only it never happens. A year passes, then two years, 570 00:33:00,076 --> 00:33:05,196 Speaker 1: then three years. And this is why we're doing development. Hell, 571 00:33:05,556 --> 00:33:09,436 Speaker 1: an entire series devoted to scripts that never happen, because 572 00:33:09,476 --> 00:33:11,996 Speaker 1: this is always the most devastating part of the story, 573 00:33:12,636 --> 00:33:15,956 Speaker 1: the plot twists that happened off the page. 574 00:33:18,996 --> 00:33:22,436 Speaker 2: So you know, Leo's company, they were producers on the movie, 575 00:33:22,596 --> 00:33:26,436 Speaker 2: and Leo was really into it, you know, really involved, 576 00:33:26,476 --> 00:33:29,836 Speaker 2: and at a certain point in time, we had essentially 577 00:33:29,956 --> 00:33:32,996 Speaker 2: green light at Universal, you know, and we had a budget, 578 00:33:33,076 --> 00:33:34,916 Speaker 2: a schedule and everything. A lot of things worked out. 579 00:33:34,956 --> 00:33:39,356 Speaker 2: How were we going to do it? And I was talking, 580 00:33:39,436 --> 00:33:40,756 Speaker 2: I said, you know, I wanted I'm going to do 581 00:33:40,916 --> 00:33:42,876 Speaker 2: like a week more on the script. There were just 582 00:33:42,956 --> 00:33:45,796 Speaker 2: some things I wanted to fix, and I got into 583 00:33:45,876 --> 00:33:48,196 Speaker 2: it and I ended up working on it for like 584 00:33:49,036 --> 00:33:52,596 Speaker 2: months and months, and I changed a lot of stuff. 585 00:33:53,116 --> 00:33:56,316 Speaker 2: But the main thing I did, you know, as I 586 00:33:56,476 --> 00:33:58,676 Speaker 2: the character, and a lot of this is just intuitive. 587 00:33:58,676 --> 00:33:59,876 Speaker 2: I don't even know why I'm doing it, but the 588 00:33:59,956 --> 00:34:08,516 Speaker 2: character got like ten years younger, and Leo, you know, 589 00:34:08,676 --> 00:34:11,636 Speaker 2: when he it. He was really funny. He was like, 590 00:34:12,596 --> 00:34:15,316 Speaker 2: he goes, buddy, buddy, if you if you didn't want 591 00:34:15,316 --> 00:34:16,996 Speaker 2: me in the movie, all you had to do was say, so, 592 00:34:17,156 --> 00:34:17,996 Speaker 2: it's no big deal. 593 00:34:18,796 --> 00:34:20,916 Speaker 1: And and it wasn't. 594 00:34:20,996 --> 00:34:22,756 Speaker 2: It wasn't that I didn't want him in the movie. 595 00:34:22,836 --> 00:34:24,996 Speaker 2: But but this other thing had happened kind of off 596 00:34:25,276 --> 00:34:28,916 Speaker 2: off camera, which was that I'd I met Heath Ledger 597 00:34:30,356 --> 00:34:33,156 Speaker 2: and I'd gotten to be very very close with him, 598 00:34:33,276 --> 00:34:35,436 Speaker 2: like instantly, like I just I just had a real 599 00:34:35,516 --> 00:34:40,476 Speaker 2: connection with him that was kind of unusual and really 600 00:34:40,516 --> 00:34:43,276 Speaker 2: special to me. And I got really excited and I 601 00:34:43,396 --> 00:34:48,356 Speaker 2: started seeing him as the main character. And and once 602 00:34:48,396 --> 00:34:50,876 Speaker 2: I started seeing that, I couldn't unsee it, you know. 603 00:34:51,116 --> 00:34:53,596 Speaker 2: And and obviously it was very delicate in a way. 604 00:34:53,716 --> 00:34:55,676 Speaker 2: And and Lee's totally cool, Like I mean, obviously he 605 00:34:55,796 --> 00:34:58,156 Speaker 2: has a thousand choices, but I in my mind it 606 00:34:58,236 --> 00:34:59,956 Speaker 2: was a big deal. I was just like, I really, 607 00:35:00,556 --> 00:35:02,156 Speaker 2: if I just said to Leo, hey, I would like 608 00:35:02,196 --> 00:35:03,396 Speaker 2: to do this with Heath, he would be like, I'm 609 00:35:03,396 --> 00:35:04,876 Speaker 2: a huge fan of as, I love him, Let's do it. 610 00:35:04,956 --> 00:35:06,316 Speaker 2: You know, it wouldn't have been a problem. But in 611 00:35:06,396 --> 00:35:09,316 Speaker 2: my mind it was really a thing, definitely a thing 612 00:35:10,116 --> 00:35:11,916 Speaker 2: at the studio because like at first it was like, 613 00:35:11,996 --> 00:35:13,796 Speaker 2: we don't want to we we're not that interesting, you know, 614 00:35:13,916 --> 00:35:15,916 Speaker 2: because it's like you can have the biggest, really big 615 00:35:15,996 --> 00:35:18,356 Speaker 2: star of like someone, you know, why would you do that, the. 616 00:35:18,516 --> 00:35:21,476 Speaker 1: Really big start being Leo because Heath wasn't so big 617 00:35:21,516 --> 00:35:21,916 Speaker 1: at the time. 618 00:35:21,996 --> 00:35:25,276 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it changed, you know, because his I 619 00:35:25,396 --> 00:35:27,356 Speaker 2: believe it was right around the time The Joker was 620 00:35:27,396 --> 00:35:29,716 Speaker 2: coming out, because he then popped is this massive And 621 00:35:29,756 --> 00:35:32,916 Speaker 2: then suddenly it was okay, you know, all this was 622 00:35:32,996 --> 00:35:37,236 Speaker 2: kind of happening, and in a good way. I thought, 623 00:35:37,276 --> 00:35:38,956 Speaker 2: in a way that was really right for a movie. 624 00:35:39,796 --> 00:35:42,436 Speaker 2: But I also just had this feeling that I was 625 00:35:42,476 --> 00:35:43,796 Speaker 2: gonna just you know, I love this guy and I 626 00:35:43,876 --> 00:35:45,396 Speaker 2: was gonna make a bunch of movies with them, Heath 627 00:35:45,476 --> 00:35:48,996 Speaker 2: and everything. And then I got a phone call. They 628 00:35:49,036 --> 00:35:52,356 Speaker 2: were on speakerphone, and it was Heath's Heath Ledger's father, 629 00:35:53,036 --> 00:35:58,276 Speaker 2: who I'd never met. So he died in a really 630 00:35:58,356 --> 00:36:02,116 Speaker 2: tragic you know, like you have like a beer and 631 00:36:02,276 --> 00:36:04,996 Speaker 2: like a Benadrill and like another you know, and just 632 00:36:05,676 --> 00:36:12,196 Speaker 2: absolute fluke. Any other day you're fine, but just breathing 633 00:36:12,276 --> 00:36:17,156 Speaker 2: stops and the dad and a guy who was really 634 00:36:17,196 --> 00:36:19,036 Speaker 2: close with him, like the guy was closest to him 635 00:36:19,036 --> 00:36:23,756 Speaker 2: in his professional life. They were they were there and 636 00:36:23,916 --> 00:36:29,076 Speaker 2: they you know, with the body, and our script was 637 00:36:29,156 --> 00:36:33,156 Speaker 2: embedded with him, and your book was on the bedside table, 638 00:36:33,476 --> 00:36:37,596 Speaker 2: and I think my number was on the script like 639 00:36:37,636 --> 00:36:42,396 Speaker 2: written like and these guys are in as you can imagine, 640 00:36:42,596 --> 00:36:47,156 Speaker 2: they are in shock, and they dialed that number and 641 00:36:47,236 --> 00:36:50,316 Speaker 2: I don't know why. And I'm in an airport with 642 00:36:50,476 --> 00:36:53,156 Speaker 2: my wife, just going from one place to another, and 643 00:36:53,236 --> 00:36:55,996 Speaker 2: I literally just I just like collide. It never happened 644 00:36:55,996 --> 00:36:57,916 Speaker 2: to me before since like my feet went out from 645 00:36:57,996 --> 00:37:01,996 Speaker 2: under me. I just literally sat down, like because I 646 00:37:02,156 --> 00:37:05,836 Speaker 2: was in I was like what what and and and 647 00:37:06,476 --> 00:37:09,356 Speaker 2: and the emotion like what you know, what they were 648 00:37:09,396 --> 00:37:14,716 Speaker 2: going through. I should not have been a party to 649 00:37:15,916 --> 00:37:18,076 Speaker 2: in any way really, And and yet you know, as 650 00:37:18,116 --> 00:37:20,476 Speaker 2: a human or is of you know, somebody who just cares, 651 00:37:20,676 --> 00:37:22,716 Speaker 2: you know. I just was there and I was listening, 652 00:37:22,756 --> 00:37:24,396 Speaker 2: and my wife was looking and I remember her face 653 00:37:24,436 --> 00:37:26,156 Speaker 2: and I was just like I could. I was speechless, 654 00:37:26,196 --> 00:37:29,556 Speaker 2: and I just listened and listened and listened, and you 655 00:37:29,596 --> 00:37:32,196 Speaker 2: know it's just really really sad, you know, and and 656 00:37:32,436 --> 00:37:36,596 Speaker 2: uh and and it's still sad, and you know, and 657 00:37:36,716 --> 00:37:40,636 Speaker 2: I think that I think that for me, I just 658 00:37:41,996 --> 00:37:43,996 Speaker 2: I just had to put a put a pin in it, 659 00:37:44,116 --> 00:37:46,276 Speaker 2: you know, like I just I didn't. I just I 660 00:37:46,316 --> 00:37:49,396 Speaker 2: don't know. It just it's something Steve. 661 00:37:49,476 --> 00:37:51,916 Speaker 1: It's I did not know that story. 662 00:37:52,716 --> 00:37:55,276 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I haven't. I hadn't really told anyone for 663 00:37:55,316 --> 00:37:57,356 Speaker 2: a long time. And I and I debated actually when 664 00:37:57,356 --> 00:37:58,636 Speaker 2: we were going to talk about it. I was like, 665 00:37:58,676 --> 00:38:00,716 Speaker 2: should I talk about it? And I actually asked my 666 00:38:00,796 --> 00:38:04,836 Speaker 2: wife and I thought, no, it's it's I think it's 667 00:38:04,876 --> 00:38:08,596 Speaker 2: really good to talk about it because it's just say 668 00:38:08,636 --> 00:38:13,556 Speaker 2: it was sad, and you know, and yet you know, 669 00:38:13,596 --> 00:38:15,996 Speaker 2: and yet here we are and we're talking about something 670 00:38:16,036 --> 00:38:17,396 Speaker 2: that we really put a lot of you know, we 671 00:38:17,516 --> 00:38:18,876 Speaker 2: put a lot of hard and soul, a lot of 672 00:38:18,916 --> 00:38:21,316 Speaker 2: effort into and a lot of care. So I don't, 673 00:38:21,356 --> 00:38:23,476 Speaker 2: I don't. I don't really have a clear answer of 674 00:38:23,556 --> 00:38:26,196 Speaker 2: why we never made it, but I feel like maybe 675 00:38:27,796 --> 00:38:29,796 Speaker 2: I feel like that bit played a big role in it. 676 00:38:29,996 --> 00:38:31,636 Speaker 2: But then you know, again, I hadn't looked at it 677 00:38:31,636 --> 00:38:33,316 Speaker 2: in a very long time. And then I when I 678 00:38:33,476 --> 00:38:35,036 Speaker 2: when I got it out, like right before we got 679 00:38:35,076 --> 00:38:36,476 Speaker 2: on and like I was reading and I was just like, 680 00:38:37,036 --> 00:38:39,836 Speaker 2: I ran to find my wife. You know that we're 681 00:38:39,876 --> 00:38:44,796 Speaker 2: still married, thank goodness. And I was like, I was like, 682 00:38:46,116 --> 00:38:48,476 Speaker 2: I could be crazy, but I think this script is 683 00:38:48,596 --> 00:38:52,276 Speaker 2: really good. Like I think we really had something like 684 00:38:52,436 --> 00:38:54,156 Speaker 2: really special, and we might have we might have been 685 00:38:54,156 --> 00:38:56,876 Speaker 2: ahead of our time or something. I'm just glancing it 686 00:38:56,956 --> 00:38:59,996 Speaker 2: seen by scene by scene and it's just their movie scenes, 687 00:39:00,076 --> 00:39:03,356 Speaker 2: you know, and they're big and it's such a good title. 688 00:39:04,276 --> 00:39:06,236 Speaker 1: Yeah what wait, did you what was the title of? 689 00:39:06,396 --> 00:39:08,236 Speaker 1: Do we call it? Blink? Yeah? Blink? 690 00:39:08,316 --> 00:39:11,356 Speaker 2: And like and the way the movie opens, you don't 691 00:39:11,396 --> 00:39:14,276 Speaker 2: remember this. It's I gotta you're gonna die. Okay, you're 692 00:39:14,316 --> 00:39:15,876 Speaker 2: gonna die because this is gonna come back. This is 693 00:39:15,916 --> 00:39:17,676 Speaker 2: the first scene I read right I opened it. But 694 00:39:17,756 --> 00:39:20,596 Speaker 2: here's the movie opens. Close up a baby's blue eye, 695 00:39:21,116 --> 00:39:24,316 Speaker 2: huge and blue, like Earth from space, staring at us. 696 00:39:25,396 --> 00:39:29,076 Speaker 2: Blank begin credits. Close up a baby looking into lens, 697 00:39:29,196 --> 00:39:32,196 Speaker 2: A happy, curious baby doing what babies do. It makes 698 00:39:32,276 --> 00:39:34,676 Speaker 2: us happy. Now you hear a woman's voice off screen. 699 00:39:35,076 --> 00:39:39,156 Speaker 2: He's so sweet, so sweet, so happy, happy, happy baby. 700 00:39:39,276 --> 00:39:42,156 Speaker 2: Yes you are. The baby begins to scream. Close up 701 00:39:42,396 --> 00:39:45,756 Speaker 2: happy baby again, utterly adorable. But now unobserved and close up, 702 00:39:45,756 --> 00:39:48,396 Speaker 2: the baby's expression seems to give clues to complex thinking. 703 00:39:48,916 --> 00:39:51,116 Speaker 2: And now you hear the father. He's trying to tell 704 00:39:51,196 --> 00:39:55,276 Speaker 2: us something. Father's tie drapes into the crib, wide seventies tie, 705 00:39:55,676 --> 00:39:59,316 Speaker 2: heary thick risk with expensive watch. Mother, of course he is, 706 00:39:59,916 --> 00:40:02,276 Speaker 2: I love mommy and Daddy, Yes, I do. And you 707 00:40:02,356 --> 00:40:05,796 Speaker 2: hear the dad say, little desperado. The mother's hands, white 708 00:40:05,836 --> 00:40:08,476 Speaker 2: painted nails, gold jewelry, deep tan, appear to tuck the 709 00:40:08,516 --> 00:40:12,316 Speaker 2: baby's sky lou blanket. Mother os tell him you love him, 710 00:40:12,676 --> 00:40:15,596 Speaker 2: Daddy loves you, Yes he does. He needs reassurance from 711 00:40:15,636 --> 00:40:18,556 Speaker 2: his father. And there's a pause, and that you hear 712 00:40:18,596 --> 00:40:22,476 Speaker 2: the father say sometimes it's not about me, and the 713 00:40:22,556 --> 00:40:26,596 Speaker 2: mother says it's pretty much always about you. The room 714 00:40:26,716 --> 00:40:29,156 Speaker 2: was totally silent, and you're just pushing up on the 715 00:40:29,196 --> 00:40:32,276 Speaker 2: baby's eyes, and the baby blinks and you cut to 716 00:40:32,356 --> 00:40:33,236 Speaker 2: the title blink. 717 00:40:35,316 --> 00:40:38,836 Speaker 1: Oh, that's great, it's so awesome. That's so awesome. I 718 00:40:38,996 --> 00:40:43,356 Speaker 1: forgotten the only is genius. All right, we are resolved, Stephen, 719 00:40:44,636 --> 00:40:45,796 Speaker 1: bring this thing back to life. 720 00:40:46,316 --> 00:40:48,276 Speaker 2: But we have to we have to figure it out. 721 00:40:50,076 --> 00:40:51,996 Speaker 1: I'd never heard the full story of why Steve had 722 00:40:51,996 --> 00:40:54,676 Speaker 1: to walk away from Blink. But the more I caught 723 00:40:54,756 --> 00:40:57,476 Speaker 1: up with Steve, the more I felt that maybe we 724 00:40:57,716 --> 00:41:01,436 Speaker 1: were onto something back then. Maybe it's time to bring 725 00:41:01,556 --> 00:41:05,356 Speaker 1: Blink back to life. I mean, there's a script. As 726 00:41:05,356 --> 00:41:08,316 Speaker 1: a screenwriter, there's a wonderful idea, and if there's someone 727 00:41:08,396 --> 00:41:11,756 Speaker 1: listening and some big office somewhere in Hollywood, I will 728 00:41:11,796 --> 00:41:15,276 Speaker 1: get on a plane tomorrow if that's what it takes. 729 00:41:17,556 --> 00:41:20,596 Speaker 1: And here's the thing, Hollywood is full of these stories. 730 00:41:20,996 --> 00:41:22,836 Speaker 1: We're gonna touch on a whole series of them in 731 00:41:22,916 --> 00:41:25,796 Speaker 1: the upcoming episodes. Next up in the feed is the 732 00:41:25,876 --> 00:41:28,156 Speaker 1: story of a sci fi filler that had just a 733 00:41:28,236 --> 00:41:32,676 Speaker 1: little too much five and not quite enough sigh, with 734 00:41:32,796 --> 00:41:36,036 Speaker 1: a twist that the studios just couldn't handle. You can 735 00:41:36,196 --> 00:41:39,396 Speaker 1: hear about a biopic told through the eyes of an 736 00:41:39,396 --> 00:41:43,476 Speaker 1: exotic animal. You're gonna hear the Oscar winner Charles Randolph 737 00:41:43,836 --> 00:41:46,516 Speaker 1: get a little emotional about a project he did with 738 00:41:46,636 --> 00:41:50,196 Speaker 1: Tom Cruise that fell apart. The mines behind some of 739 00:41:50,236 --> 00:41:55,316 Speaker 1: Hollywood's biggest hits, talking about the biggest failures. Join us 740 00:41:55,716 --> 00:42:02,076 Speaker 1: as we take the temperature of development Hell. This episode 741 00:42:02,156 --> 00:42:05,116 Speaker 1: was produced by Nina Bird Lawrence with Taly Emlin and 742 00:42:05,196 --> 00:42:09,796 Speaker 1: Ben Adapph Hafrey. Editing by Sarah Nick's original scoring be Luisquira, 743 00:42:10,156 --> 00:42:14,396 Speaker 1: Engineering by Ecco Mountain. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith. 744 00:42:15,276 --> 00:42:16,276 Speaker 1: I'm Malcolm Gladwell.