1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,040
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

2
00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,920
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

3
00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:11,520
Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

4
00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,520
Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

5
00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,400
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

6
00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,480
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I want to get

7
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,239
Speaker 1: back to the big picture stories that have been swinging

8
00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,720
Speaker 1: this market around, giving us the kind of volatility that

9
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,680
Speaker 1: we haven't certainly in the rates sector seen in decades,

10
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,239
Speaker 1: if ever before, And I want to do that with

11
00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:41,000
Speaker 1: Chris Campbell. He is a senior policy analyst and sorry,

12
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,639
Speaker 1: he's the chief strategist at Kroll, but he has had

13
00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:50,040
Speaker 1: a number of other important look at them before. Yeah,

14
00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,880
Speaker 1: former assistant secretary from the US Department of Treasury, he

15
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,440
Speaker 1: went to FSOCK meetings, former Stack director of the Senate

16
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:03,040
Speaker 1: Finance Committee, and so lifetime member the accountl on Foreign Relations.

17
00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,600
Speaker 1: You're basically plugged in on Wall Street and in Washington, Christ,

18
00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,920
Speaker 1: So it's great to have you here in the studio

19
00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,520
Speaker 1: with you. What do you make of the banking turmoil

20
00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,119
Speaker 1: that we've seen in the government response, do you think

21
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,920
Speaker 1: it's behind us? As I say, the system worked, you know,

22
00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 1: like their banks will go under um, and you know,

23
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,080
Speaker 1: companies fail, but uh, and there's going to be an

24
00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,600
Speaker 1: enormous amount of investigations going on, you know as to

25
00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,120
Speaker 1: why the you know, these two banks failed in the

26
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,920
Speaker 1: United States. But the reality is the federals, federal Federal

27
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,560
Speaker 1: Federal Reserve and Treasury worked very quickly, very expeditiously, and

28
00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,280
Speaker 1: decisively to make sure that depositors were taken care of,

29
00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,840
Speaker 1: which is the way I think which is important. UM.

30
00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,959
Speaker 1: It stopped a run on banks, which, as you know,

31
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,960
Speaker 1: is deeply emotional. And so with with that prevention and

32
00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,880
Speaker 1: with the with confidence restored largely, UM, I think that

33
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,400
Speaker 1: we can now go back to a quote unquote normal system,

34
00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,880
Speaker 1: if you will, where we're actually seen looking at fun

35
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,880
Speaker 1: mentals for banks and others in the market and uh

36
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,760
Speaker 1: and judging them on their fundamentals. Should we expand insurance

37
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,600
Speaker 1: beyond the two hundred and fifty thousand? How problematic is that?

38
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,080
Speaker 1: It's going to be deeply problematic and very very political

39
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,360
Speaker 1: in DC. UM. You know, it's you can kind of

40
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 1: see the each side where they're going to come out

41
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,720
Speaker 1: the Democrats, like they're going to say that, uh, you know,

42
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,360
Speaker 1: two hundred fifty thousand dollars is a lot of money

43
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,160
Speaker 1: for most Americans. You know, the average American makes about

44
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,160
Speaker 1: fifty seven thousand dollars a year, So having two unrefty

45
00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in their bank account, it's just you know,

46
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,560
Speaker 1: it's it's it's like it's aspirational um and you know,

47
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,519
Speaker 1: and especially we're talking about savings accounts, right, so yeah,

48
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 1: if if hopefully, uh, they can save up that much

49
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,800
Speaker 1: before retirement, because people live so long now and if

50
00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,079
Speaker 1: you retire at sixty five or seventy, you still got

51
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,680
Speaker 1: another thirty years to fund. But they'll do it in

52
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,079
Speaker 1: different accounts. And there are four one ks and there's

53
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,600
Speaker 1: another issues that are not insured and so and so yeah,

54
00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,359
Speaker 1: like I think that, you know, Republicans will take a

55
00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,200
Speaker 1: different view of this, and so I just it's very deep,

56
00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,440
Speaker 1: very tough to see, especially today's Washington, where there me

57
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,720
Speaker 1: be can census on on any legislation involving banks, changing

58
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,280
Speaker 1: Dodd Frank or anything like that in the current environment.

59
00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,280
Speaker 1: But it's de facto done, isn't it. Raising the insurance?

60
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,480
Speaker 1: I mean, even though they're not going to officially do it. Um,

61
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,239
Speaker 1: if you have three hundred thousand, then your regional bank

62
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,480
Speaker 1: goes under, you can count on the government to bail

63
00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,720
Speaker 1: you out. It's clear that the Federal Reserve has used

64
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,160
Speaker 1: its powers within Dodd, Frank and and supervisor authority to

65
00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,959
Speaker 1: be able to step in and prevent and make sure

66
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,600
Speaker 1: the depositors will made whole. I think you know, again,

67
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,720
Speaker 1: you can argue moral hazard or not, but the reality

68
00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,680
Speaker 1: is that that now the Federals Serve has done this.

69
00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,920
Speaker 1: It's now well known that they can, and I think

70
00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 1: the depositors now I think you know it should have

71
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,360
Speaker 1: the Commons probably that that that Federserve likely step in

72
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,280
Speaker 1: in the future. Can I bring up a debt limit

73
00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,920
Speaker 1: with you negotiating on Oh man, are we talking about

74
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,640
Speaker 1: the debt ceiling? Yeah? We are. I'm so well, we

75
00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,360
Speaker 1: have to don't fortunately or not. I've I've actually negotiated

76
00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,840
Speaker 1: the last twelve of them. So now is that you

77
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,040
Speaker 1: using that as a point of negotiation over whatever? Is

78
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,720
Speaker 1: that like playing Russian rule in It's very, very difficult

79
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,200
Speaker 1: and deeply problematic to suggest that the United States may

80
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,760
Speaker 1: walk up to the line and actually and not pay

81
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 1: our bills. Um, it's you know, it's very and for

82
00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,800
Speaker 1: for the listeners, it's really important to buy. For Kate,

83
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 1: this is this is you know, not funding the Post

84
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,719
Speaker 1: office or the National parks. This is paying back our

85
00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,040
Speaker 1: debt ors our debt and effectively, you know, and I

86
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,159
Speaker 1: think about this, and I tending which was already approved,

87
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,320
Speaker 1: was that's correct. Spening has already been improved, and actually

88
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 1: it's already been spent. This is debt that we're paying back,

89
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,440
Speaker 1: and so um, you know, I think it's it really

90
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,160
Speaker 1: does affect the rate at which Treasury or where I

91
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,599
Speaker 1: used to work, can sell our our debt U and

92
00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,360
Speaker 1: it'll affect that the amount of that and the confidence

93
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,039
Speaker 1: of people who buy buying our debt. And so the

94
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,080
Speaker 1: reality is, and we make quabble over this is the

95
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 1: right thing to do or not, But if we you know,

96
00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,839
Speaker 1: the government spends one point three dollars for every dollar

97
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,760
Speaker 1: takes in, we just we you know, the federal government

98
00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,480
Speaker 1: likes to spend like drug and sailors, um, and they

99
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,960
Speaker 1: don't they don't balance the budget, and so we we

100
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,360
Speaker 1: just rely on debt to finance our operations in our

101
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,040
Speaker 1: in our government and so and so So John and

102
00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:21,320
Speaker 1: I have covered uh these um impasses. The twenty eleven

103
00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,320
Speaker 1: um one probably the most noteworthy. When we were our

104
00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,640
Speaker 1: credit rating was lowered. You actually were in the room

105
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,280
Speaker 1: negotiating them UM as you said the last twelve. So

106
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,919
Speaker 1: this happens fairly often. Now at Kroll you're in a

107
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,960
Speaker 1: different role where you have to advise your clients on

108
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,320
Speaker 1: um You know what could happen around this in terms

109
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 1: of the economy, in terms of the markets. What are

110
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,560
Speaker 1: you expecting this time? This will be the hardest one

111
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,120
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. When first, I'm so grateful that I'm

112
00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,560
Speaker 1: out there. Uh, it's I really believe this is there

113
00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,480
Speaker 1: actually maybe a chance we actually may do a technical

114
00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,360
Speaker 1: default in this in this setting, UM, I really don't

115
00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,599
Speaker 1: know how how you get there. You have we have

116
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,320
Speaker 1: a president who's unwilling to talk to House Republicans or

117
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,480
Speaker 1: House Republicans or have made it very clear that they

118
00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:12,280
Speaker 1: want spending introductions in the package as an overall way

119
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,000
Speaker 1: to get to yes. And so with that, with those

120
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,520
Speaker 1: two postures, and we're and we're coming. We're going coming

121
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,360
Speaker 1: so quickly up to the to the deadline that there's

122
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 1: really we're going to quickly come to a time where

123
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,520
Speaker 1: we're actually going to pass a red line where we can't,

124
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,600
Speaker 1: you know, because it just takes time to pass things

125
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,320
Speaker 1: in Congress. Hey, I just want to drain your experience.

126
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,160
Speaker 1: You were got about thirty seconds, Leff, you were Orange

127
00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,800
Speaker 1: Hatch's right hand man. That mistaken could in an Orange

128
00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,240
Speaker 1: Hatch function in today's Congress, or he'd be an outlier.

129
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,839
Speaker 1: You know, there's a couple couple I call statesmen left

130
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,799
Speaker 1: in the in the in the US and the US Congress,

131
00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:48,880
Speaker 1: but they are a dying breed. And uh, I know,

132
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,680
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to have been mentored by him. Um

133
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 1: and I really our country would be much better off

134
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:55,400
Speaker 1: if we had more and more ore in hatches in

135
00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,840
Speaker 1: the Senate today. Well, it's been awesome to have you

136
00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,360
Speaker 1: in the studio and I hope we can get you

137
00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,960
Speaker 1: back for more time. Chris Campbell, their chief strategist at Kroll,

138
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,880
Speaker 1: talking us through the bank. Well, we're not going to

139
00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,240
Speaker 1: call it a crisis, right the bank. We camil is

140
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,320
Speaker 1: the word I think that we've landed on. You're listening

141
00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,200
Speaker 1: to the Team Cancer Live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at

142
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 1: ten am Eastering on Bloomberg dot Com, the I Heart

143
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,880
Speaker 1: Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business app. We're listening on

144
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcast. We have an opportunity

145
00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,640
Speaker 1: to talk about steel right now at David Stickler. He's

146
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,960
Speaker 1: the CEO of High Bar. It's a newly formed company,

147
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,840
Speaker 1: comes with a lot of experience though as a CEO

148
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,880
Speaker 1: former CEO of Big River Steel, and he's in the

149
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,600
Speaker 1: studio with us right now. So I think it's a

150
00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,280
Speaker 1: great opportunity to get a look at, you know, one

151
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:56,320
Speaker 1: of the underlying sort of signals of economic growth or

152
00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,280
Speaker 1: you know, contraction. Thanks so much for joining us, David.

153
00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,880
Speaker 1: What's the steel market like right now? Because it's obviously

154
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,440
Speaker 1: a primary building block of the economy. Sure, the steel

155
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,800
Speaker 1: market is if you look historically, it's in very very

156
00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:15,800
Speaker 1: strong shape. It's been in strong shape for eighteen twenty

157
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:20,240
Speaker 1: four months now. But the steel market, when you talk steel,

158
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 1: a lot of people look at just half of the equation.

159
00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,560
Speaker 1: They look at what the steel price is. And today

160
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 1: seventy percent of the steel in North America is made

161
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,520
Speaker 1: from recycled scrap metal, all right. Now, that's different where

162
00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,000
Speaker 1: twenty years ago seventy percent was made from iron. Ore

163
00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,920
Speaker 1: and coking coal. So there's been a huge, huge shift

164
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,480
Speaker 1: in the sustainability of steelmaking. But when you look at

165
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 1: steel price, as I said a moment ago, that's just

166
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,280
Speaker 1: half the equation. It's what's the scrap metal price, And

167
00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,319
Speaker 1: it's really the spread that everybody plays in, and that's

168
00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 1: where you make your money, the difference between scrap metal

169
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,400
Speaker 1: and steel. What are the benchmark contracts that you look

170
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,079
Speaker 1: at to find that price, So you you really in

171
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:11,080
Speaker 1: the steel industry, unlike the alunium industry or the oil

172
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 1: industry or the gas industry, you don't have a liquid

173
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:19,440
Speaker 1: futures market. So you're really looking on a daily monthly

174
00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 1: basis on what the scrap price is trading at all, right,

175
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,920
Speaker 1: what you can buy scrap metal for, and then you're

176
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,040
Speaker 1: trying to add on your margin to set your steel price.

177
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:35,520
Speaker 1: And that's really gentleman. What's interesting, Manton John is with

178
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,600
Speaker 1: scrap metal, there's nothing else to do with it other

179
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,080
Speaker 1: than make new steel. But they have scrap metal overseas

180
00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,439
Speaker 1: they do. And when I'm buying stuff like that, I

181
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,520
Speaker 1: would imagine as a purchaser, I'm just looking at, you know,

182
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,079
Speaker 1: who's the best producer, the best price I can get,

183
00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,920
Speaker 1: And those are two different things, by the way, right,

184
00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,839
Speaker 1: the best producer and the best price you can get

185
00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,120
Speaker 1: are often too very different things. It's hugely different. Now

186
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 1: you can buy steel. Steel isn't steel. Steel is not steel.

187
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,000
Speaker 1: You can buy steel from all the reaches of the

188
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,400
Speaker 1: globe pretty much. You can buy it from China, you

189
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 1: can buy it from Russia, Brazil, India, Japan, Korea, Canada,

190
00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 1: the US and imported steel certainly is here and will

191
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:28,960
Speaker 1: always be here. The difference is the quality and more recently,

192
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 1: the environmental sustainability. I will tell you the global average

193
00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,520
Speaker 1: for carbon emissions per ton of steel. For each ton

194
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,800
Speaker 1: of steel, the world average is one point eight five

195
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,199
Speaker 1: tons of carbon. All right, one ton of steel one

196
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,599
Speaker 1: point eight five tons of carbon in the air. The

197
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,280
Speaker 1: last mill, prior to my high bar effort here, our

198
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,640
Speaker 1: carbon emissions was point one two three. But how would

199
00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,880
Speaker 1: I know that as the consumer? I mean, does its

200
00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,080
Speaker 1: stamped on the steel lumbered one way? By the way, David,

201
00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,439
Speaker 1: you're not selling steel rebar to John for his home

202
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:11,360
Speaker 1: renovation projects. I've got You've got much bigger customers. These

203
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:17,079
Speaker 1: are bridge tunnel, airport projects, roadway projects, sixty seventy you know,

204
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,840
Speaker 1: floor office and condominium towers. And I've heard we are

205
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 1: going to do a little bit of infrastructure spending in

206
00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 1: this control. We certainly are. And what's interesting, since the

207
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:32,600
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, anytime there's been a federal highway dollar used

208
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,400
Speaker 1: in a project, there's a concept called buy America. The

209
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:41,840
Speaker 1: rebar has to be melted, cast enrolled in the United States,

210
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,600
Speaker 1: all right. Now, That's been around since the nineteen sixties.

211
00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,439
Speaker 1: So when you talk about, hey, can I buy some

212
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,920
Speaker 1: rebar from Turkey, absolutely you can. But if it's a

213
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:58,319
Speaker 1: federal highway project, you're restricted only two US produced rebar

214
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,240
Speaker 1: And I guess you know, especially with this administration, they

215
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,720
Speaker 1: probably want to do a better job for the environment.

216
00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 1: We import as a country like thirty million metric tons

217
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:15,679
Speaker 1: of steel every year, but that is incredibly pollutive, right.

218
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,400
Speaker 1: I'll give you an example. So on the West Coast,

219
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,880
Speaker 1: there's really no natural home for scrap metal, so it

220
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,679
Speaker 1: either has to travel east into Chicago, into Arkansas, into

221
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,960
Speaker 1: the Carolinas where steel a lot of steels produced Texas

222
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,600
Speaker 1: or gets shipped overseas. So you take your scrap metal

223
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 1: off your West coast ports, ship it over to Asia,

224
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,360
Speaker 1: gets put on a truck that you don't want to

225
00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,720
Speaker 1: be anywhere near, driving behind with all of the pollution

226
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,040
Speaker 1: coming out of the tailpipe, gets melted in those steel mills.

227
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 1: That as I said, one point eight five tons of carbon,

228
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,320
Speaker 1: you know, per ton of steel put on a truck,

229
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,400
Speaker 1: put on a ship delivered to the West coast. That

230
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:02,120
Speaker 1: is not an environmental fuel both ways is not environmentally sustainable.

231
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,360
Speaker 1: So so what will you do? You were at Big

232
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,359
Speaker 1: River Steel, now you're at High Bar. You're focused on recycling,

233
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,560
Speaker 1: in the in the production. What will you do differently

234
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,600
Speaker 1: than your competitors? Oh? Number one will be LEAD certified.

235
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,720
Speaker 1: At Big River we were the world's first LEADS certified

236
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 1: scrap metal, recycling, steel production, facility leadership and environmental design

237
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:33,760
Speaker 1: and LEAD certification is typically for office buildings, hospital complexes,

238
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,560
Speaker 1: university building. We have it at the Bloomberg headquarters. When

239
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,920
Speaker 1: when people heard that we were going to get Big

240
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,840
Speaker 1: River Steel or attempt to get Big River Steel LEADS certified,

241
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,439
Speaker 1: they thought we had lost our minds. But we did it.

242
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 1: And after two years of operation at Big River Steel,

243
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,920
Speaker 1: Dommler Mercedes called us up and said, Dave, are you

244
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,200
Speaker 1: going to be in town in three weeks. I said,

245
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,120
Speaker 1: well I am. They said, we want to give you

246
00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,240
Speaker 1: our Environmental Supplier of the Year award, and not just

247
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,920
Speaker 1: for steel, not just in North America. Everything that Donler

248
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,600
Speaker 1: Mercedes buys plastic, glass, aluminum. Here's a two year old

249
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,679
Speaker 1: company at that point in time, given our lead certification,

250
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,600
Speaker 1: given our carbon footprint, and that really makes a difference. Now,

251
00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,160
Speaker 1: what I will tell you is people don't pay more

252
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,680
Speaker 1: for our steel because it's environmentally sustainable, but everything else

253
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,320
Speaker 1: being equal, If my steel selling for a thousand bucks

254
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,960
Speaker 1: delivered in one of my competitors up along the Great

255
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,800
Speaker 1: Lakes that uses coal and iron ore to make steel

256
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,480
Speaker 1: selling for a thousand bucks, nine times out of ten

257
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 1: will get the order. It's like a tiebreaker when you

258
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,120
Speaker 1: go to Vegas and the house has, you know, the

259
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,640
Speaker 1: blackjack tiebreaker. I'll take the tiebreaker. What's the future of

260
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,360
Speaker 1: the industry. Do you face competition from things like carbon fiber?

261
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,120
Speaker 1: You're always facing you replacement. You know, for a while

262
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,400
Speaker 1: it was going to be the cars are all going

263
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,320
Speaker 1: to be aluminum. The steel industry is going to be

264
00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:01,080
Speaker 1: on its tail. Talk about an energy intensive deducing aluminum, yeah,

265
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:06,720
Speaker 1: can and energy intensive carbon intensive. You know, the one

266
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,560
Speaker 1: thing about aluminum is you do have you know, a

267
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,560
Speaker 1: high level of recycling. You're seeing a shift away from

268
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,760
Speaker 1: plastic bottles to now water and other drinks are being

269
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 1: more and more in aluminum cans, aluminium bottles, what have you. So,

270
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 1: the aluminum industry is here to stay. It's not going away.

271
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,280
Speaker 1: But to answer your question, the steel industry, the key

272
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:36,240
Speaker 1: is lightweight and strong. All right, lightweight and strong. And

273
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,400
Speaker 1: thirty years ago steel was you know, half inch thick.

274
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,240
Speaker 1: It was you know, you couldn't bend it, couldn't press it.

275
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,000
Speaker 1: It was tough for some of these applications, and aluminum

276
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 1: and carbon fiber were quite frankly nipping it the tails

277
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 1: of the steel industry. The steel industry, to their credit,

278
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 1: has come out with advanced high strength steels, corrosion resists

279
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 1: in steels, and really over the last twenty years has

280
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,840
Speaker 1: just done a complete life cycle change. When I first

281
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 1: started this twenty years ago, steelmaking was eighty percent braun

282
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,280
Speaker 1: twenty percent brains. Today at High Bar and Big River

283
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,040
Speaker 1: it's ten percent braun ninety percent brains. We have this

284
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 1: green market steel. Bloomberg Company Rebar report here available to

285
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,640
Speaker 1: our terminal customers. Is there do you think enough support

286
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,480
Speaker 1: for sustainability around this industry. I don't think you'll see

287
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,240
Speaker 1: a green premium. All right. There's a lot of people

288
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,000
Speaker 1: in the industry saying you're going to be sustainable, you'll

289
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,520
Speaker 1: be able to get an extra ten percent for your

290
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,040
Speaker 1: steel products. I don't believe that. What I believe it's

291
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,560
Speaker 1: a tiebreaker. If you're the most sustainable, you're going to

292
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,240
Speaker 1: get the order, everything else being equal. But I do

293
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,840
Speaker 1: not expect a developer or a builder to pay me

294
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 1: a premium because my steal is green. All right, Well,

295
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna be hearing more from you at this roundtable

296
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 1: discussion here at Bloomberg. So we're glad you could stop

297
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,360
Speaker 1: by the radio booth and talk to us because it's

298
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,920
Speaker 1: a fascinating topic and I think John and I love

299
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,600
Speaker 1: all the things that are made of steel. No, I'm

300
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,760
Speaker 1: in the market for rebar for my basement, So keep

301
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,480
Speaker 1: you in mind. Thank you very much, Thank thank you

302
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,199
Speaker 1: so much. You're listening to the tape. Ken's a our

303
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,879
Speaker 1: live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on

304
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,040
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and

305
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,920
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on

306
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,240
Speaker 1: Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say

307
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:42,199
Speaker 1: Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. We want to get right

308
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:47,200
Speaker 1: now to James Lanthier. He's a CEO at Mindset Pharma

309
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,520
Speaker 1: and they have it's it's a business that I am

310
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 1: very interested in psychedelics, plant based psychedelics to treat What

311
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,760
Speaker 1: do you treat James with these psycho delics other than

312
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, the duldrums? Well, you know, I think we're

313
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,560
Speaker 1: at a pretty fascinating point. There are a couple of

314
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 1: clinical trials that are in their later stages. Um, for

315
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 1: for the use of psilocybin, which is a psychoactive component

316
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:21,720
Speaker 1: of magic mushrooms rooms exactly three of resistant depression and

317
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 1: m DMA to treat PTSD. But there are literally hundreds

318
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 1: of clinical trials right now, and uh, you know, academic

319
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:38,200
Speaker 1: studies exploring different indications, you know, for psilocybin, DMT, a

320
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,439
Speaker 1: whole range of different psychedelics. You know. But you are

321
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,399
Speaker 1: actually so I'll just tell listeners, um, this is a

322
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:50,200
Speaker 1: publicly traded company, Mindset Pharma. The ticker is MSSTF. You

323
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 1: actually sell like shrooms in ecstasy to clients in Canada. No,

324
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 1: we're we're a classic biotech. So what we are doing

325
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:05,000
Speaker 1: is we are trying to develop new psychedelic drugs that

326
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 1: have been really optimized to make up for some of

327
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 1: the shortcomings of the of the known drugs, so that

328
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 1: they're gonna work better as medicines. They'll be safer, more predictable,

329
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 1: have potentially different durations. So better than like SSRIs the

330
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: prozacts of the world is what you're saying. Well, better

331
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,399
Speaker 1: not only than the established therapies. Yeah, absolutely better than

332
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,240
Speaker 1: the SSRIs, but but better than the psychedelic drugs that

333
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 1: we are you know, studying today. So you know, for instance, psilocybin,

334
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 1: there's amazing data to show that it can do a

335
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: really great job of helping people with uh, you know,

336
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 1: different depressive disorders, but the durations really long. You have

337
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,199
Speaker 1: to spend you know, up to eight hours in clinic

338
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,640
Speaker 1: and be supervised by multiple therapists, and we just think

339
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 1: that's not really a very convenient model for you know,

340
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 1: either for therapists or you know, or for patients. So

341
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 1: we're trying to you know, develop drugs that still you know,

342
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 1: have the same benefit are still going to likely induce

343
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,199
Speaker 1: the same you know, psychedelic experience, but have a shorter duration.

344
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 1: All right, since you mentioned startup, I got to ask

345
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 1: the obligatory tangential question about funding and how svb's collapse

346
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 1: may have affected you or your industry. Well, it hasn't

347
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,640
Speaker 1: affected mindset. We're in a bit of a unique position.

348
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,959
Speaker 1: We're the only biotech startup out there that actually has

349
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: a big pharma collaboration. So we're we're partnered with the

350
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,240
Speaker 1: development arm of Otsuka Pharmaceuticals, which is a top psychia

351
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 1: psychiatric drug company, and they fund the majority of our expenses.

352
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,679
Speaker 1: I think generally speaking, you know, the psychedelic space has

353
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 1: not had a ton of exposure to SVB or you know,

354
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 1: any of the other regional banks that have Why is

355
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 1: it structured that way? The does big farma not want

356
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 1: to touch this or they'd rather have somebody like you

357
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,640
Speaker 1: and if it is successful, take you over or whatever. Yeah,

358
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 1: the I think it's it's it's really more of the latter,

359
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 1: you know, we're most of the new drug work is

360
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: is still at a kind of a pre clinical stage,

361
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 1: which is just you know a little bit early for

362
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: big pharma and so the way that you know a

363
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: law you know, not only in psychedelics, but you know,

364
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 1: a kind of a cross farma now have a lot

365
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: of these, you know, early stage collaborations where pharma's uh,

366
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: you know, partner up with promising biotechs that have you know,

367
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 1: have some promising kind of early results before they actually

368
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 1: you know, go all the way into a licensing partnership. So, um,

369
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 1: what could what are you finding in terms of treatments

370
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 1: because um, you know, you mentioned the psychedelic experience, and

371
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 1: I thought the way people use sila cybin to treat

372
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 1: um disorders was through micro dosing. At least that seems

373
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: to be the kind of trendy way that people are

374
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: doing it in Silicon Valley and some others here on

375
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 1: the East Coast as well. Um, well, what's the most

376
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 1: successful way that you're that you found so far? Yeah,

377
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: I'm really glad you asked that question because it's actually

378
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,400
Speaker 1: a kind of a common misconception because you do hear

379
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 1: a lot about microdosing, but but actually the the the

380
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,640
Speaker 1: approach that has had you know, the most positive data

381
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 1: so far is what we call macrodosing. So you go

382
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: into a clinic, you take a large dose of a

383
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: psychedelic drug. You know, it puts you off into a

384
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 1: real psychedelic trip for you know, a period of time. Um,

385
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: and you've got to do it, you know, in clinic

386
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 1: under supervision, typically with multiple therapists. Yeah. Yeah, Typically there's

387
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 1: there's you know often there's music too, and and uh

388
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 1: and it's really interesting. All the data suggests that, you

389
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: know that that that profound psychedelic experience is really kind

390
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: of essential to to getting you know, the relief from

391
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: depressive symptoms. It's almost like a we still don't really

392
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: fully understand like how this all works, but you know,

393
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 1: the assumption is that there's some level of kind of

394
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: rewiring and it helps, you know, helps give you kind

395
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 1: of a break from being stuck in uh, in these

396
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 1: negative thought patterns. That's you know, really a hallmark of

397
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,959
Speaker 1: people who are suffering, you know, badly from depression. How

398
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:27,199
Speaker 1: far are you from something prescribable? If you look across

399
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: the psychedelic space, the drug that's going to get likely

400
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: get to FDA approval first is going to be MDMA. Uh,

401
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: psilocybin is going to come and that could be as

402
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: early as you know, next year. Psilocybin is probably another

403
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: twelve months behind that. We have a couple of candidates

404
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: that are just entering, uh you know, clinical trials. Now,

405
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: are you actually like growing mushrooms in the basement? I mean, went,

406
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: how does this work? No? This is all this is

407
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: all synthetic. So the problem with using the mushroom in

408
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: a therapeutic you know, regulated context, is that the psilocybin

409
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: content can really vary, you know, wildly, you know, from

410
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: mushroom to mushroom by as much as you know ten x.

411
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 1: So the mushroom, you know, you there's really no way

412
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: for for physicians to kind of dose it appropriately. You

413
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: really have to use the synthetic versions, and that's what

414
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: we're working with. Also, Uh, John, if you haven't been

415
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: watching The Last of Us, you might not know that

416
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: fungus can cause a global pandemic, could be world ending.

417
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're telling you about. Which

418
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: show is the HBO The Last of Us? Um? All right,

419
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,959
Speaker 1: James the Pleasure from Narcos? Right, yeah, Okay, No, that's

420
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 1: pretty cool, James Pleasure talking to you. And I obviously

421
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: find this, uh topic absolutely fascinating, and you know, I

422
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: think SSRIs have been fairly successful, but there are obvious

423
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: drawbacks and side effects, so it would be quite cool,

424
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: um if you were successful. Great for the mental health

425
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: of the world. John Lanthier there the CEO at minds

426
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 1: at Farm. Sorry, James Lanthier, the CEO of Mindset Farmer.

427
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: The ticker again is mss TF. This is Bloomberg. You're

428
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: listening to the team can'cer live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays

429
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: at ten am, easting on Bloomberg dot com, the I

430
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business app. We're listening

431
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcast. Hannah Elliott has

432
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: probably the best job at Bloomberg News. You did no well.

433
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: I mean I read all everything, she writes, everything, she

434
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: puts out follower on all social media, and she has

435
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: just put out a piece on the update the follower

436
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: to what is my probably favorite car of all time,

437
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: the Lamborghini evented Door. Hannah, I must tell you that

438
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: we had a talk it was like last week about

439
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: Lamborghini's and you were very upset about one model that

440
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: was I don't know, naturally aspirated but with a turbo

441
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: charger or whatever. No, is that right? No, it's not

442
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: the case. What was it. I'm not I'm not in

443
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: love with the urists. The power train for the Lamborghinists. Yeah,

444
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that's fair. I have to say I love

445
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: the earists. I just had the Performante last week and

446
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: drove it out to Palm Springs. How for how does

447
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: that work? How do you hook me up? You know

448
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: I can help you with that. Um, as Matt said,

449
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: I agree. I have the best job at at Bloomberg

450
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: and I had it for um let's call it a

451
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: long weekend, four days over the weekend. So um it was.

452
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: It was a great experience. And I really you know,

453
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: I just drove the Farie par Songua the Ferrari Suv,

454
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: so it was very interesting to check back to back

455
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: the Lamborghini Suv versus the Ferrari Suv. I have to

456
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: say I give the Lambo the edge. Actually, well the Lamb.

457
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: I mean, look, the Lambo is a great car, But

458
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: is it just a Porsche Kayen with a different steel

459
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: on top? They have the same don't they have the

460
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: floor leader va with the twin turbos and oh sure,

461
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: but you know, there's a lot more power in the

462
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: earthst There's a lot more. There's a lot more power

463
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: in torque, I will say, I mean the performance figures

464
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: are stronger. It's it's a very cool car. But I

465
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: just personally I prefer a naturally aspirated engine. But I'm

466
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 1: old and there are new things. You're a purist, yeah,

467
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,479
Speaker 1: I mean, hey, I don't believe it. You're you're a purist.

468
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: I mean, so that brings me to well, how do

469
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: you feel about Lamborghini making a hybrid? I feel very

470
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: good about that. I have. I've always said there's no

471
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: replacement for displacement, but I think now there is, and

472
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,719
Speaker 1: that is okay, battery power, because of the instant torque,

473
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: because of um, just the incredible performance. Tell us about

474
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: the new car. I can't even pronounce the name. What's

475
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: the new eventidor the Eventador successor called? So I'm gonna

476
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: go with Rouelto. Um. You know, some people are saying

477
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: velto and some people are saying Rouelto. I think Rowelto

478
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: is a bit easier to say, basically the word. Of course,

479
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: it's named after a fighting bowl a bull that fought

480
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: in of s in Spain in Barcelona in the eighteen eighties.

481
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: John and a lot of our listeners may not know

482
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: that all, most all Lamborghinis are named after famous bulls.

483
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: This is this is firmly in line with Lamborghini heritage.

484
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: So the roualto. That word also means mixed up in Spanish.

485
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: It can be used to mean mixed up some people

486
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: even have you even told me, well, it kind of

487
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: means like scrambled eggs, and that's a very fitting name

488
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: for a vehicle that combines three electric motors with that

489
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: V twelve engine. So we've got a mixed up drive

490
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: train here. It's not really about like you said, this

491
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: is the successor to the evented door. It's the hybrid function.

492
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: Is not really about a fuel efficiency because we only

493
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: get six miles on an all electric charge, so it's

494
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: it's not about that. It's exactly what you say. It's

495
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: about instant torque, really um and some really seamless power,

496
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: which I think sounds fabulous. Who buys this? Oh? I

497
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: you know what, I expect that Lamborghini will have no

498
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: problem selling this vehicle. They mister Winkleman, Stefan Winkleman told

499
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: me that their order books are full through twenty twenty four. So, oh,

500
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: I forgot to mention. Can we just say the Roberto

501
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: has a thousand and one horsepower. Yes, so this How

502
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: could I forget? Um top speed of over two hundred

503
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: and seventeen miles an hour two point five zero to

504
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: sixty two. Okay, here's here's my other stupid question. Where

505
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: do you drive this? It's not going to be on

506
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: the turnpike. I think you actually could take it right

507
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: down the turnpike. I mean speeds like well, no, I

508
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: don't think there are some people who do those speeds,

509
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: but I think you know, you know, so the numbers,

510
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: that performance is truly impressive. It's almost as impressive as

511
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: the Dodge Challenger Demon one seventy but not quite. Design

512
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: is amazing, I think, Hannah, it's absolutely gorgeous too. What's

513
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: your take? Yeah, I love it. Okay, so let's get

514
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: some background. This was the head designers, Mitya Borkert, who

515
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: we all love. He actually came from Porsche, so he's

516
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: been at Lamborghini for some time. He led design on

517
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: this and I love it because it combines elements of

518
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: heritage Lamborghinis that we've seen. You can see a little

519
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: bit of a contosh in the front. You can see

520
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: a bit of a Mercy lago as well. The demensions

521
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: are a sort of a Diablo size, so I feel

522
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: like we can see the heritage of Lamborghini. But then

523
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: also we have really new elements, like a totally exposed

524
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: engine in the rear, which let's not forget. You know,

525
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: Bugatti has done that before, but I don't think we've

526
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: seen that at Lamborghini. So we've got a totally exposed engine,

527
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: which I think is really cool and still twelve thank god.

528
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, yeah, And we still have these design elements

529
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: of the shape of a Yum throughout the car, from

530
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: the led headlights at the front to inside in the

531
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: cockpit it's oriented in a Y shape to a funneling

532
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: to the rear. I think it's really really cool. I

533
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,719
Speaker 1: think it's very cool. As well, n turn off your mic.

534
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: You can't talk anymore. No, I just as well. I'll

535
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: turn off back. I'm going to ask one final question.

536
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: I'll go away because I don't know what I'm talking about.

537
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: What kind of um looks did you get while driving

538
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: in the car. What's what's the reaction when you're in

539
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: this car driving around your neighborhood. Well, I must admit

540
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: I have not yet driven this vehicle, and I don't

541
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: think anybody is. They're going to This is the world debut,

542
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: so we haven't had press drives yet, but my prediction

543
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: is people are going to love it or hate it,

544
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: which is pretty much what Lamborghini does. You know, it's

545
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: a very strong statement. You're you're either on board or not.

546
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: But I do think one nice thing about this is

547
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: with that electric powertrain, you can kind of sneak out

548
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: of your neighborhood without all the belching and popping and

549
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: growling in the engine, which your neighbors might appreciate. And

550
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: then once you get on the get on the you

551
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,959
Speaker 1: know the highway, they're turnpike, then you can turn your

552
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: engine on. Now, so maybe that'll go over well, well,

553
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: we'll see it. It'll be here at the New York

554
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: Auto Show next week, so and Hannah will be here too. Yeah.

555
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: I have to preface this next comment with a warning.

556
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: I am a reactionary. I often have very strong feelings

557
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: about things right away and voice them in a pretty

558
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: loud tone. Then after thinking about it or debating it

559
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: or reading it for a while, I realize I'm wrong

560
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: and I go back. So but at least I do

561
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: change my opinion. To me this new Ferrari puro sang

562
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: is the ugliest thing that they've ever aid and it

563
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: to me, it looks so cheap. I mean, they spent

564
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: so much money to develop a Mazda MX thirty. I

565
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: saw that mean too? What what on earth? And yeah,

566
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: I think in the Alps, which sounds awesome. I'm the

567
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: powertrain is so cool, but what Yes, this is one

568
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: reason why I do give the edge to the eurists

569
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: in terms of SUVs from Lamborghini versus Ferrari. I do

570
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: think the Earist looks cooler and more in line with

571
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: Lamborghini heritage. The Ferrari. Yeah, look, it looks better in person.

572
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: I don't think it photographs very well. I'm not going

573
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: to argue with you that it's not the greatest looking Ferrari.

574
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: It's not, you know. I love the roma, the classic

575
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: lines of the roma. It's so minimal and elegant, and

576
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: I agree I think they missed it a little bit

577
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: on the persang way. Um. I don't find it personally.

578
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: I'm not personally offended by it. I actually think the

579
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: Ferrari California was the worst calif Ferrari they made because

580
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: it was so bland and just so boring. Um, at

581
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: least there's something with the parrosangway. But yeah, you're right,

582
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: it's not it's not great. I think they pulled some

583
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: punches that maybe they could have gone a little harder. Yeah,

584
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in person, and as I said,

585
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: I maybe i'll see it and in a few years

586
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: fall in love with it. I do love the ff

587
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: is my favorite Ferrari. Okay, but I just I'm glad

588
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: they left the power to V twelve there as well,

589
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: so at least we haven't lost that. And I really

590
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: look forward to seeing you next week. I'm so glad

591
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: you're coming to New York Auto Show. And yes, I'm

592
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 1: gonna I'll bring John Tucker along. I'm gonna give him

593
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: a history lesson, a few books to read. I'll tell

594
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: him to also follow you on Twitter and on Instagram.

595
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: And thank you for not telling the kitty litter story.

596
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: Tucker put kitty litter in his car. No, yeah, I

597
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: mean sprinkled it around. Is this the reef thing? Yeah?

598
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: Well no, it's spilled gas. Somebody I sent to get

599
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: gasoline in a can, a five gallon can, came back

600
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: with three gallons and said, oh, I filled it up

601
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: with five, so I won't name names. It's actually good.

602
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: It's a good trick if you need to get it

603
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: didn't quite work because they refused to park the car

604
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: in the garage across the stream. In any case, Hannah Elliott,

605
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: go on the Bloomberg dot Com read her stuff, or

606
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: go on social media. Hannah, thanks so much for joining us.

607
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: You're listening to the tape. Catch our live program Bloomberg

608
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, Tuna half,

609
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business Half. You can

610
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New

611
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. Let's

612
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: get over to Washington, DC so I can ask one

613
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: of my favorite Bloomberg intelligence analysts the same question I

614
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: always ask him about the salt deduction that we so

615
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: badly need. Nathan Dean joins US senior policy analysts and King.

616
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: Before you came out, we were comparing property taxes me

617
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, Manton, Westchester, so and it's here. It's

618
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if I can remain solvent

619
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: until the salt deduction restriction sunsets in twenty twenty five.

620
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 1: Why did Donald Trump and the Republicans do this to me?

621
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: Because unfortunately, for those of you who live in New

622
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 1: Jersey and New York, it's just it's easy money to

623
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: take and pay for something else. And that's the problem

624
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: with the salt deduction going forward, is that you know,

625
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: if you're going to give it back, you got to

626
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: pay for some pay for it somewhere else. And it's

627
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: easy for the forty eight other states, maybe not California,

628
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: but it's easy for the book the rest of the

629
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: states and say, yeah, you know, New York, New Jersey,

630
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: they've got great pizza and they've got great food and

631
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: so forth. But you know, we don't we don't need

632
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: to give them back their salt deduction. So you know,

633
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: the best I think you could hope for is it

634
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: just being in the conversation. And I think the policymakers,

635
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: especially from New Jersey, are really pushing this, so at

636
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: least you can prepare for that twenty twenty five date.

637
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: But obviously we'll have a new Congress and a new

638
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: president and so forth like that. So unfortunately, you're just

639
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: gonna have to live with your good pizza for the

640
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 1: time being, I just you know, the other what I

641
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: want to do is move to Connecticut where taxes are like,

642
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: what is it going to be extended? Do you do

643
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: you think? I mean it's supposed to sunset then, but

644
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: is there a chance it will be extended? Well? The

645
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: challenge is is that then you have to decide how

646
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: are you going to pay for it? And you know

647
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: it's I mean, will the lack of the deduction continue? Well,

648
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: And that's my point is is that if you were

649
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: to say, if you were to bring it back, it's

650
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: sort of like in an entitlement, it's like, okay, if

651
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: you you know, once you give it, it's hard to

652
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: take away. Once it's out there and it's gone, it's

653
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: hard to bring back. And so you know, I think

654
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: the best you could hope for at this point is

655
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: these policymakers to continue to put it into the conversation

656
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: and for you know, other states. You know, because we

657
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: haven't seen other states. You know, other states and property

658
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: values have gone up dramatically since COVID. You know that

659
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: there are more states that are now impacted by this. Illinois,

660
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: for example, I think the folks there have already started

661
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: talking about this as well. So I don't want to

662
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: be optimistic, but I just want to say that it

663
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: is part of the conversation and hopefully in two years

664
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 1: it's a better resort for those of you in the Northeast.

665
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: I mean, temporary tax hikes never go away. Let's be honest.

666
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: And my question is why are taxes in Westchester so

667
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: much higher? Why are taxes in the state of New

668
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: York so much higher than every other state? But we

669
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 1: I don't need to belabor this point. We need to

670
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: get to the banks. You know, a lot of people

671
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: are talking about dougcass again was telling us that he's

672
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: buying some of these banks have been hit. He thinks

673
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: a little bit too hard. The reason other people aren't

674
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: is because they think there's a real regulatory over hang.

675
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: And Nathan, is it inevitable that we just see a

676
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: lot more banking regulation come into play. Inevitable but manageable.

677
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is is that this

678
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: report that's going to come out on May first will

679
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: essentially have two things that I think investors should really

680
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: pay attention to. The First one is the special FDIC assessment.

681
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: You know, yesterday Chairman FDIC Chairman Martin Gruenberg said that,

682
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: you know, they have to make up the twenty two

683
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: point five billion dollars that the lost on Silicon Valley

684
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 1: Bank and Signature Bank. And it put in perspective the

685
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: last time the special assessment, or one of the special

686
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: assessments in two thousand and nine for five point five billion,

687
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: ended up with a six hundred and seventy five million

688
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: dollar hit for JP Morgan. And they've already said that

689
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: they want big banks, or at least not community banks,

690
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: to pay for it. So that's going to be out

691
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: via a notice proposed rulemaking. So there's gonna be a

692
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: lot of time to figure out how that impact works out,

693
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: but that's important. The other one is the ongoing regulatory matters,

694
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: and this is where I think you're gonna see what

695
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: is known as enhanced prudential standards for banks that are

696
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: one hundred billion in assets and up, so like Huntington

697
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: Key Corps fifth third examples. And what you're gonna see

698
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 1: here is not only just higher capital but tougher liquidity

699
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: coverage ratios. But I think ultimately that if you were

700
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: to talk to those hundred billion dollar banks, they'd see

701
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: in the long run, this is manageable. So I'm not

702
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be the heavy hand

703
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: regulatory hit that some people are thinking. Do they get

704
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: stress tested? The regionals, the smaller banks at some point

705
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: they do, So it's actually a tiered process, you know.

706
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: And so banks that are one hundred to two hundred

707
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: and fifty billion due to stress tests. But this is

708
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: where the problem with Silicon Valley banking in is Silicon

709
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: Valley Bank rose from eighty billion to two hundred and

710
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: eleven billion almost instantly over a year, you know, almost

711
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: just under two years. And the way that the transition

712
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: played from the first stress to the next, it was

713
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 1: actually gonna be twenty twenty five until their next stress test.

714
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: And I think that's going to be one one of

715
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: the solutions you came from the regulators is these banks

716
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: that are hundred billion and up a lot more stress

717
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: tests and a lot more tougher stress tests when all

718
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: this have come up in a stress test, the longer

719
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: dated whatever they were, you know, yes and no. So

720
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, I think there is a regulatory issue here.

721
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is I think the

722
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: regulators and this was the San Francisco Fed plus some

723
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: of the others were a little hesitant to actually sound

724
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 1: the alarm on Silicon Valley Bank. You know, Vice Chairman

725
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: bar said that he got his first briefing in February,

726
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: but they said that they've been looking at this. The

727
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: mria's matters requiring immediate attention had been placed on the

728
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: bank a year ago. And you know they're Camel's rating,

729
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: which is this super secret rating that every bank gets

730
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: and nobody knows what it is. You know, their Camel's

731
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: rating was three, which is actually bad, but it's a

732
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 1: rating of one to five, one being great, five being bad.

733
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: And if you're going to give the bank of three

734
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: and their liquidity portion was a two, but then weeks

735
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: later it's a contagion risk or a systemic risk. My

736
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: question here is maybe the regulators need to actually get

737
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: sort of their ducks in a row as well, not

738
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: just put more regulations. As a depositor, i'd want to

739
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: know what that index is out and unfortunately this is

740
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: this is confidential, so the Camel's ratings are never made public.

741
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: But what I can say is is that you know,

742
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: in terms of the deposit insurance argument that's going on

743
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: right now, you've seen several policymakers float the idea of

744
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: going to a billion dollars. I'm sorry, a million dollars

745
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: or five million dollars. I don't think there's going to

746
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: be a congressional solution here. I think what's going to happen, though,

747
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: is you'll see the Treasury and the FED say that

748
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: we still have this bank term funding program out there

749
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: that allows banks to borrow to achieve liquidity so that

750
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: their deposits are secured. And this program extends up until

751
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: March of twenty twenty four. But if we're in this

752
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: situation where you're not comfortable putting your money in a

753
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: regional bank and it's an election year, don't be surprised

754
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: if Treasury in the FED just saying, ay, maybe we

755
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: just need another year of this funding program, all right? Uh?

756
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: Nathan Dean Bloomberg intelligence analyst. He knows. This guy knows

757
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: everything about what goes on in Congress. So when it

758
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: comes time for the debt ceiling to be renegotiated, you

759
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about because I could tell you

760
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: I'm already bored by it. I is it? You know what?

761
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: I remember when, Nathan, I remember when we were downgraded

762
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: by SMP. I think it was SMP, and we had

763
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: we all had, all the anchors had to come in,

764
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: all hands on deck for a special episode of Bloomberg Whatever,

765
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: and everyone bought treasuries. We lost our triple A rating

766
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 1: and everyone bought treasuries. Nathan Dean from Bloomberg Intelligence talking

767
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: to us about what's going on in the hallowed halls

768
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: of Is that actually a show Bloomberg Whatever? I can't

769
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: remember what it was. That was way back, that was

770
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 1: twenty eleven. I had hair. You're listening to the tape.

771
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: Ken's are live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am

772
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com,

773
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,919
Speaker 1: and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live

774
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just

775
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 1: say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. Really sad news once

776
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: again with Blackhawk helicopters going down and US military members

777
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: of the US military perishing in that tragedy. You know,

778
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: it's a reminder of the sacrifices that are made on

779
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: a daily, hourly basis by men and women in this

780
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: country to keep us safe. Absolutely, and we should we

781
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: do and we should always thank them for their service.

782
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: One such man is Mick Mulroy. He is a co

783
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: founder of the Lobo Institute, and he spent many years

784
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: in the US Marines and infantry officer as well as

785
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,879
Speaker 1: a paramilitary operations officer at the CIA. Mike, it's always, uh,

786
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: it's always awful to have to talk about these things. Um,

787
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: I wonder what your take is on the Blackhawk incident

788
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: that we that we're looking at now, and is there

789
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 1: a problem with this helicopter because it's um, you know,

790
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: famously had issues in the past. So good to be

791
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: with you guys, But absolutely, it is hard to talk

792
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: about these things. You know, obviously, I'm a retiree, I'm

793
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: a father of a currently serving an Army officer, and

794
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: every American I'm sure our hearts go out to the

795
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:42,280
Speaker 1: families of these these soldiers. The helicopter has had problems,

796
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: most helicopters do. I'm not I'm a I'm a ground guy,

797
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: not a pilot, but helicopters are exceedingly difficult to fly,

798
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: and we fly them at night in the military because

799
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 1: that is how we conduct our operations. Our soldiers pilots

800
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: are incredibly competent, and the equipment generally is too. But

801
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: this obviously shouldn't have happened, and I think the US

802
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: Army will do an extensive investigation to determine what exactly

803
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: happened here. The training is realistic, and the training by

804
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: its very nature is going to be incredibly dangerous. I

805
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: mean you know firsthand right it absolutely is. Any training

806
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: is dangerous, especially when you're using helicopters, especially at night. Again,

807
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 1: that's why we train, because we are most effective because

808
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: we can utilize all of the high technology that we

809
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: have that they of our adversaries don't. If you think

810
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: about it, there those pilots are looking down the equivalent

811
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: of two tubes, which is their nbgs, So it doesn't

812
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: give you great peripheral vision estially, you can look straightforward,

813
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: you can turn your head, but it's very it's very restricted.

814
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: So that might be one of the reasons why this

815
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: Apparently they ran into each other or they collided, and

816
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things are going to investigate,

817
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: and then maybe going forward, we can come up with

818
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: a better night vision system where it doesn't have that

819
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: kind of utrich all right, Well, as you say, our

820
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: hearts go out to the families of these soldiers, and

821
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: as John said, you know it's it's a horrible tragedy,

822
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: but it does remind us of the sacrifices that are

823
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: made on a daily basis by the soldiers that the

824
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 1: troops that are protecting us and really not just us,

825
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: kind of the free world. Let me let me ask

826
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: you in that vein about Evan Gerskovich. Not a soldier,

827
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: He's a journalist that was detained in Russia and has

828
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: been accused of espionage. My first thought, Mick was, as

829
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: someone who reads, you know, spy novels extensively, there's no

830
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: way that we're going to put a spy embedded with

831
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal I mean the Journal for example.

832
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to do it, and I can't understand

833
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,479
Speaker 1: why we would think that. But time and time again

834
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: in China and now in Russia, these journalists are being

835
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: sidelined under the accusation that they're spies. What do you

836
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: what do you make of it? So you're absolutely right,

837
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: we would not use a journalist to collect intelligence. In

838
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: the fact, we're legally restricted from doing it. We have

839
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: been since the nineteen seventies. So there's a zero chance,

840
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: in my opinion, that any journalists overseas collecting intelligence for

841
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 1: the United States. I think this is essentially perhaps they

842
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: do that, they being China and Russia, so they just

843
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: assume we do. But it's pretty it's pretty clear that

844
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: we do not, and you can simply just look it

845
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: up and see that. I think they're using Evan as

846
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: a political hostage, and they're going to try to get

847
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: some of their people out that have been incarcerated in

848
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: say like Germany for example, that we're actually convicted for

849
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 1: real crimes in that case, murder, and I think they're

850
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 1: trying to gather enough Americans where we'll actually approach the

851
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: German government and see if this is possible. So I

852
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: think that's what it. Then was it a mistake to

853
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: trade a war criminal for Brittany Grinder? I mean, and

854
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: the worst part about that is that we left one

855
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: of our soldiers over there. But was it you know,

856
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: it was that encouraging to the Russians And now they're

857
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,439
Speaker 1: trying to do more of this. So I do think

858
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: that it did encourage them to do more of this. Unfortunately,

859
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: I don't know what else we would have done. Bertie

860
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: Griner should have been returned. Obviously, Paul Willen as well.

861
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: But this is how Russia operates. We probably should do

862
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: war to keep Americans out of Russia. It is the

863
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: highest level of Travis and Travel Advisory Level four, which

864
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: says don't go to Russia. Whether we can do more

865
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: than that, I don't know. It probably requires legislation, but

866
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: it does give Russia this opportunity to simply grab Americans,

867
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 1: fabricate charges in cars them for years, and then use

868
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: them as leverage points against US, both to get their

869
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: people out and potentially other things that they would like

870
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 1: to see United States do. Hey, man, can I back

871
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: up and ask you a really broad question? As co

872
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: founder Lobo Institute, how do you assess where we are

873
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: in the world today? Is it a more dangerous place?

874
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:26,399
Speaker 1: Is it less dangerous? So, unfortunately, I would say it's

875
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: getting more dangerous. We're seeing country like Russia who have

876
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: just decided to completely violate the international rules based order,

877
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: an order that every country benefits from, but apparently not

878
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 1: every country wishes to defend when it comes to another country.

879
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: I think that's very problematic. China is certainly trying to

880
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: gain prominence. They are building up their military. We're seeing

881
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: countries that are on the verge of acquiring nuclear weapons,

882
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: like Iran. I don't want to be a doomsdayer here,

883
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: but it's simply the facts that the world is not

884
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: getting safer and the United States needs to recognize that,

885
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 1: and that's part of why we spend so much of

886
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: our resources on our national defense. And as a citizen,

887
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: I need to be prepared for, you know, gladly paying

888
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: more taxes to protect me and my family and advancing

889
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: my country's interests. I think, well, I don't know that

890
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: we need to pay more taxes, and I'm not going

891
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: to advocate for that, but I do think that our

892
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: defense budget is in line with the threats that we

893
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: currently face in the world, and to be prepared for

894
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: things that we don't foresee. You know, it could be

895
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 1: a Chinese attempted invasion of Taiwan. It could be Russia

896
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 1: going past Ukraine, potentially even into a NATO country, which

897
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: of course we draw the United States in to that

898
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: war under Article five of the NATO Treaty. So there's

899
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: a lot of things that could happen. We need to

900
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: be ready now and not wait and try to catch

901
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: up later. And I think that's part of why we

902
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: do spend someone when it comes to our national offense

903
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: here our defense budget, what do we do about Iran?

904
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously how to deal with Russia and Ukraine

905
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,439
Speaker 1: as being hotly debated right now, and China is something

906
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: that we talk about on a regular basis, we don't

907
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: talk that much about Iran. What what can America do

908
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: about this, you know, aspiring nuclear power, So that is

909
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: a really good question. I guess the immediate issue is

910
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 1: the level of Iranian attacks that we're sustaining in Iraq,

911
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 1: in Syria against our military presence. That's got to stop.

912
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,240
Speaker 1: And you know, I was just look up the statistics today.

913
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: We've been hit about eighty times in the last two years.

914
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: We responded about six. We need to get a lot

915
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: more strong, stronger in our responses. We need to make

916
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 1: them do a calculation that it's simply not worth striking

917
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: an American facility in either of those countries. So I

918
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: think that the chairman yesterday, General Melly, was pretty specific

919
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: about how this is going to escalate as far as

920
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 1: our responses if we are hit again, and I think

921
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: that's good. The other issue is, as you pointed out rightly,

922
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: they're on the version of getting a nuclear weapon. Most

923
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: analysts thinks it could take two weeks to get to

924
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: the level of enrichment to get the typer Ran ammunied,

925
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 1: and then a couple of months to actually weaponize and

926
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: into a deliverable weapon. That's a big problem. There's no

927
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: easy answers. Should the United States strike when we decided

928
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: it's that closed. Potentially will Israel strike regardless of whether

929
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: we want them to or not. Potentially, in fact, they've

930
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: said they would. So there's a lot of things that

931
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: could happen in the next few months that could even

932
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: increase the level of international instability and conflict, and I

933
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: think that's one of the things we're going to be

934
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 1: determining as we go forward. Hopefully Round pulls back from

935
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: the level of getting a nuclear weapon back into the

936
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: community nations, but they haven't shown any interest lately to

937
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: do that. All right, Mick, thanks so much for joining us.

938
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: Mick mulroy there, co founder of the Lobo Institute, former

939
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: US Marine and paramilitary operations officer at the CIA as well.

940
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

941
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever

942
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

943
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three. And I'm fall Sweeney.

944
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you

945
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio