WEBVTT - David Nevins: How Streaming Has Changed the Premium TV Game for Showtime 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:10.320 Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties podcasts featuring conversations with industry 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:14.240 leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, Managing 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.400 editor of Television for Variety and Today, my guest in 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:21.880 Beverly Hills is David Nevins, President and CEO of Showtime Networks. 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:25.799 David is steering Showtime through a period of massive disruption 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:29.760 for the premium TV business. In our wide ranging conversation, 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.000 he talks about the new economics of direct to consumer 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.640 streaming and how it's changed the way Showtime operates. He 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:40.760 talks about the expansion of Showtime's programming mandate and what 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:43.680 it takes to compete for projects in the peak TV crush. 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.480 He also offers insights into the origins of Sasha Baron 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:51.080 Cohen's Who Is America and his thoughts on the coming 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:57.560 final season of Homework. David Evans, thanks so much for 0:00:57.600 --> 0:00:59.760 making time for us. So glad to be here in 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:03.680 this glamorous hotel room. It's the life, you know, the 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.480 life of the CEO, the life of a media reporter, 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.920 one hotel room after another, get it done wherever it 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:15.480 has to get done. It's good, um, you know, for 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.119 the last couple of years, all anybody in TV can 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:22.840 talk about is how much TV there is. You've been 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.360 at the helm of Showtime now certainly programming wise, now 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.600 for going on eight years, going on nine years. How 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:34.200 that long? Right? I guess that's right. I was. I 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:35.880 was going to say seven going on eight, But I 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:39.320 think you're right, and you have your details, correct. I 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.360 I forget that my own history. Just I'll remind you 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.640 when your kid's birthdays are coming. Okay, fair enough? Today 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.080 is my son's birthday? Actually, happy birthday? There we go, Um, 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:54.400 what how has we know? You know, everybody's talking about 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.080 the arms race and programming and costs, But how has 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:02.240 What are some of the ways that the job of 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:06.360 programming a premium cable network has changed in ways that 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.440 wouldn't be intuitive to us, in terms of just the 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:13.040 enormity of competition? Are there things that you have to 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:17.120 do differently now because there is so much competition? I see, 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.160 it is all opportunity. I feel like the range of 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.600 the kinds of things that I can do has gotten 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:29.160 much more interesting. When I came to Showtime, we made 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:37.919 mostly uh half hour little half hour drama comedies, Californication, 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:43.400 and Nurse Jackie and Weeds. We had I think one 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:48.560 or two hour shows, Dexter being the most prominent of them. 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.800 And now I feel like I'm doing an animated show, 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:56.480 and I'm doing documentaries and news shows, and I'm doing 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.120 you know, really fresh, up to the minute things in 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:08.400 UH in the circus and really spontaneous, crazy shows like 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:12.920 who is America where? Um. You know, it was a 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:16.480 year and a half in the making, but the editing 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.520 and the tinkering is going on the last second. So 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:21.640 I do feel like the range of the kinds of 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:26.880 things I get to make has dramatically expanded. Um. But 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:32.520 I think you're asking a question about, you know, filling 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:36.760 a programming mandate in the age of UH, in the 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:38.680 age of streaming, in the age of a lot of 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:43.920 people trying to make premium television. UM, I think you 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:48.840 gotta go the extra mile to try to find originality. UM. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:53.600 With so much stuff happening, it's UH. There's a lot 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.400 of people repeating themselves and a lot of people doing 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.120 UH playing in a similar or sandbox. So you've gotta 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.680 you gotta go further and harder for originality. And you know, 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:07.080 the good news is that the range of people who 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:12.560 want to do television h is greater than ever before. 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:16.240 I mean, I'm sitting there, I'm on a daily basis. Now. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.159 It's people who have been the dominant players in the 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:25.839 movie business from uh Jim Carey to Russell Crowe too, 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:32.560 uh Jason blom or Scott Ruden to um Seth Rogan 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:40.640 or Ben Stiller. Um. Uh. It's it's a group of 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:46.560 people who probably wouldn't have been accessible uh for Showtime 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.040 six years ago. Um. And they're all interested in doing 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:57.479 great creative work for us. UM. But you gotta dig 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:03.159 a little harder, you and be a little bit more adventurous, 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.320 um than than the old days. But that's that's that's 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.760 the good news. Would you say from the time that 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.080 you certainly from the time that you started at Showtime 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.400 to now, would you say, you know, adjusting for inflation, 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:22.440 that the CBS Corporation is spending appreciably more on content. Definitely, absolutely, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.279 where we are spending more. We're spending more on a 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:31.320 per episode basis. The level of production value that's expected 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.680 from us has gone up. And we're also spending more 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:38.360 because we're putting out more hours of original content than 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:43.760 than we did before, but our revenue has gone up 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.920 pretty dramatically in order to justify it. It's hard. It's 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.039 hard to spend more on programming if your revenue isn't 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.119 moving in the right direction. But our revenue is moving 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:56.880 in the right direction. Uh, so it pays for itself. 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:01.279 But no question about it. And uh we're we're always 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.520 pushing for more and trying to you know, we've gotta 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.480 keep pushing for more. We gotta get rewarded for it 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:11.880 with new subscribers. And in a streaming universe, Um, every 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.560 time you put something new that people are interested in, 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:19.120 it drives sign ups. You can also put new things 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.719 on that don't drive sign ups, um, you know, in 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:24.919 which case you're not investing your money as well as 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.080 you can. But as long as you're putting things out 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.640 there that has a defined audience that somebody is willing 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.960 to pay money for, you can justify it. It's I'd 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:38.680 be interested to see the link between you announcing that 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:43.600 something is coming and sign ups. So people people read 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:45.839 in the press that you're doing a Rodger Ales mini 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.200 series with Russell Crowe and maybe Nicole Kidman, and that 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:53.640 that gets people's interests. Like you, you can track. I 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.479 don't believe that. I think in the in the age 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.919 of the Internet, Um, it has to be instantaneous. So 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.159 I don't think that a press announce A press announcement 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:10.080 may create a glow, may create some brand awareness, some 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:14.480 brand halo. I don't think a press announcement drive sign ups, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.320 and I don't think there's much evidence that it does. 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:22.160 We did the t c A yesterday. We were trending 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:28.760 on Twitter, Showtime is trending, shut up, and Dribble was trending. Uh, 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.680 Homeland was trending, David Nevians was trending. I don't think 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.160 that drove sign ups. Uh, it's not going to drive 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:40.760 the sign ups that Sunday's episode of Who Is America 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:44.760 or Sunday's episode of The Affair will drive. And you 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.679 know I see it every day. So there's a build 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.600 up of of of sign ups over the course of 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.920 the week. It peaks on Sunday, goes down a little 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:56.960 bit on Monday, and then keeps going down through the week, 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.200 and then starts building up again as we head towards 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:05.560 the weekend day Saturday Sunday peaking again. Um, and uh, 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:10.800 you've got to be instantaneous. So when it has to 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:14.360 be available. Um, I think in order to move an audience, 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.000 and for you as a programmer, that must be a 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.200 joy that now you can it is so easy to 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.400 sign up. I mean, you know in years past, it 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.240 was you had to call the cable company and stay 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.560 on for two hours and wait for two weeks. And 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.120 now people can literally push a button. Yeah. Well, the 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.200 thing that I always used to say because my background, 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.920 I was a network executive, broadcast network executive early in 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.160 my career, and then I was a producer. And when 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.480 I first came to showtime, it was the only form 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:45.400 of television, premium television, subscription television is the only form 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:50.400 where there was no direct correlation between programming and revenue. Uh. 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:55.280 If you sit at CBS or TNT r FX, you 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:56.800 can say, I'm gonna put the show on the air. 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:01.679 It's going to get one point six in demo and 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.040 that's going to be worth x amount of revenue. Uh. 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.720 With us, it was always so uh indirect. In fact, 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.360 you can always make the argument that less programming costs 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:15.560 less money and you're not gonna show any obvious loss 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:19.680 of subscribers. Um, it's gotten much more direct than that. 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.760 So now you can actually attribute revenue two shows and 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:29.440 it's UM, so you can immediately see the effect of 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:31.280 a show and a show that is growing. So show 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:37.319 like Who Is America which as growing, grew in ratings 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:42.880 weeks one to three and four, and uh most importantly 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:47.880 grows in UM we two had you know, Week one 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.319 was a very good sign up week Week two was 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.079 bigger than week one. That that never happened. So that's 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.440 clearly evidence of a show that is getting a ton 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.520 of word of mouth and getting in causing people to buy. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.120 All of those people complaining that they were duped into 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:07.079 being Who Was American? The Sasha Brown Cohen Show, all 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:10.679 those people complaining that they were duped, that was like marketing. Yeah, 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.040 I mean I had a lot of powerful, important people 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.600 carrying the water for us, So that's always a good thing. 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:22.360 Let me just ask you how there was some commentary 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:27.320 about that show that Baron sas Sasha Brown Cohen's excuse me, 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:35.360 Sasha Baron Cohen's UM approach didn't play as well in 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.319 two thousand eighteen as it did a decade ago when 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.840 he was when he was on the Ali g Show. 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:43.720 Did you feel that when you watched it? Do you 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:48.559 do you accept that criticism. It felt a little out 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.400 of step with with our times right now. I don't. 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.800 I mean, I think people there's it's a rough and 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.760 tumble world, and there's certain people when you know, there's 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:04.720 a certain sensitivity. But uh, he is a provocateur and 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.160 a brilliant artist, and I think it's really important to 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:15.920 create space for provocateurs to pro to provoke and and uh, 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:24.400 satirists to satire. And um, I I think he is 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:28.000 a fair editor. Uh what what he puts on the air, 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:33.400 he doesn't you know, he's an improv comedian, he he uh. Um. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:35.839 The whole essence of improv is go where people will 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.240 lead you, and he lets people lead him down some 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.000 pretty crazy paths. And I think he's a truth teller 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:49.319 and uh so Uh, I think it's important in our 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:55.840 culture to allow comedians the space to provoke, do satire. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.679 And I don't think there's anybody better than Sasha in 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:05.199 a pretating our times. Um yeah, I mean, I I don't. 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:10.120 I think he's he's he is a truth teller, and 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.920 I think he's fair and fair and how he puts 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.559 his episodes together. No one's ever accused him of editing 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:22.600 unfairly taking things out of Contextum, so he follows where 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:27.680 people where people lead. Um. You mentioned that that that 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.640 Who Was America was an eighteen month development process. That's 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.760 that's interesting. One thing I'm hearing from people is because 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.160 there is such a chase right now for creative talent 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:41.040 and programming, that development can be very accelerated, sometimes to 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.760 the detriment of the final product. But that sounds like 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.840 a very That sounds like the opposite. Yeah, I mean, 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.400 if you're going to be led by your creators, and 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.800 we try very hard to be led by by our 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.560 creators and give them the space and room and time 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.319 that they need. Um, sometimes you can go asked and 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.000 sometimes I like to go fast and send times. It 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:06.800 takes longer. And you know, Uh, this was a show 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.120 that had to be invented. The characters had to be invented, 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.760 the the concepts had to be invented. The look and 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.360 the feel and the prosthetics had to be invented. So 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.440 it took it took some time, and then it took 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:25.360 takes Uh. Um, you gotta you gotta do a lot 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.199 of different pieces to come over to come up with 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.840 uh stuff that is good enough to meet Sasha's barrier 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:36.679 for you know, his his bar for what works on television. Um, 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:38.680 so did he did he pitch this to you in 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.040 a nascent form or did he bring you some material 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.920 already shot that wetted your appetite? It was a nascent form, 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.600 nothing was shot. You know. We began to talk about 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.240 the possibility of you know, doing the undercover show that 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.280 he hadn't done for a very long time, and I 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.240 chased him really hard. So he was kind of he 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.720 was he was shocked by representatives or it was a 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.959 connection that you made torely with him. Representatives were involved. 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.600 Speaking of representatives, that's another interesting area of the business 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.760 right now. We are seeing you know, both CIA to 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.679 a greater degree endeavor the parent company of w M 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.360 E Are. They are both and now U t A 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.040 is even starting to get into the into the business 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.200 of production tiptoeing still but but it never in particular 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.080 is really building a roster. Does that concern you to 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:31.440 see another Yes, they could be another supplier, but they're there. 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.200 They're coming in with an agenda to help talent own 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.880 their control, their destiny. At a time when you want 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.600 to take showtime around the world, it's a lot easier 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.880 for you. I have a number of different feelings, like 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.680 I'm I'm supportive of anybody who wants to put more 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:53.880 capital into the production of of great television. And uh, 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.400 I think there are certain inherent conflicts of interest that 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.440 are that are dicey. It's not my issue, it's the 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:05.920 issue of the talent. So I think there's it's a 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:11.360 little dicey territory. But UM, I'm I have I have 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.720 a real open door policy, and I believe you know. UM, 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.040 somebody brings me a show that I feel like it's 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.560 going to be great for showtime, Uh, I want to 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.680 I want to facilitate that show getting on the air. 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.760 I have business priorities. It's really important to us to 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.960 own the distribution of our of our shows, and I 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:34.920 don't make any any bones about that. But um, because 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.080 of the way the success that we've been having, the 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:43.480 desirability of our programming, h nine times out of ten, 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:48.200 we can offer better distribution terms than anybody else. UM, 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:53.120 and we've had such dramatic increase in UM and the 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.840 desirability of our programming and ability to be packaged together 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.200 that more often than not, people want even big studios 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.680 want to take advantag of our our distribution deals. So 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.640 we're kind of working it out and in good ways 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:10.240 that I'm happy. UM. I think, uh, you know, if 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:16.400 you're in the talent representation business, UM, you got to 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:22.040 be clear about who you're working for. UM. But I'm 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.680 able to see the grays in it and the opportunities 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.200 and the opportunities for for showtime to be supplied by 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.480 UM some of the you know, agency back companies as 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:35.480 long as you're willing to put capital in and and uh, 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.480 we can work with them. And there's obviously you know, 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.520 they're going to get behind people with very big visions 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.560 and people that are going to come to the table 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.880 with you know, with likely with very provocative and very 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:56.720 kind of sizzling ideas. That's interesting. UM. So we do 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.560 business with all commerce. You know, I don't think in 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:04.840 this in this age, you can afford to uh close 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.160 off any avenues. Are you concerned at all that avenues 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.040 might be closing off to you? Though? We're seeing you know, 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.160 Disney and Fox are soon to be one and they 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:19.080 are talking very seriously about, you know, launching a truly 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:23.320 vertical integrated streaming platform that would that would be the 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.760 exclusive place of all Disney content. And you know you 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:28.560 don't do a ton of business with Disney. But one 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.159 of your one of your breakout shows this past year, Smilth, 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.160 came from ABC Studios. Does it concern you that there 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:40.400 might be some constriction, Well, I mean I think they're 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:45.280 clearly launching a streaming service that will be somewhat competitive 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.600 to us, So it means another another competitive competitor on 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:53.400 the block. Um, but that's not new. There's new entrance 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:58.719 entrance every day. And our brand is strong. Our relationship 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.520 with our customers wrong, our relationship with our distributors or 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:07.679 various distributors, whether it's Amazon or Comcast or UH direct 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.960 TV an A T and T which now owns my competitor, 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:15.040 So that the the environment has gotten more complicated Disney. 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.560 As I finished that sentence, Uh, Disney and A T 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:22.879 and T now own HBO. My are big competitor. UM 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.359 A T and T and Direct TV pay us a 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.320 lot of money every year, but they want to keep 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:31.080 selling us. So uh, it just it just makes for 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:37.120 strange bedfellows. And ultimately, uh, talent wants to go where 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.520 talent wants to go, and they tend to have uh 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.159 a fair amount of saying it. And if I create 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:49.000 a a successful platform that launches successful shows and create 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.440 a great creative environment, talent will keep wanting to come 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.359 the showtime. And I would bet that even in the 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:00.639 era of Disney creating whatever new streaming service are going 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:03.760 to create, there's still gonna be talent that studio that 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.280 wants to come this showtime that will have to be 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:11.000 allowed to come to showtime under acceptable deal terms in 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.120 order for them to be in business with the talent 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.919 that they want to be in business with. So I 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:21.760 think there's uh a pretty healthy ecosystem that is self policing. 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.760 That's how we look at it. Um. We we've seen 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.360 this before. We've seen the pendulum swing too. We want 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.800 to own everything too, well, maybe we want to play 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.240 the field. So it's an amazing moment. I want to 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.360 own everything. It's it's the economics are better and it's 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:43.240 better for us to own everything. But uh, I wouldn't 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:49.080 not want shameless And um there's there's shows with major 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.960 studios where I can we we we really do all 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.000 the distribution, but we share the ownership and we share 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:59.600 the upside that those deals are fine. Um, But you know, 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:04.240 we have a you know, there's just it's it's it's 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:08.080 gotten complicated. But our ability to be somewhat agnostic, to 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:14.520 be UM agnostic to the UM whoever supplying it to us, 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.880 to be not tied with a major distribution company we're 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.800 not tied. You know, we're not tied to Comcast, we're 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.879 not tied to direct TV gives us. There's things that 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:26.800 we can do that it is harder for some of 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:31.360 our competitors to do because we are actually an independent 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:37.439 UM company, you know, work Our company is CBS and Showtime, 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.280 which is small in the world that we live in. 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.399 But it also gives us flexibility deal flexibility that some 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:47.600 of my competitors don't have. We're not like Netflix, where 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.920 you know you're we'll pay you a little bit of premium. 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:56.520 You have no upside your uh, your international distribution can 0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:00.040 take a nap. Your domestic syndication people they can I 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:05.960 can nap UM. Uh. We're still attractive place for independence 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:12.360 or the semi independence to do business UM because UM. 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:17.840 Because we can we can generate hits that have ancillary value. Certainly, 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:23.320 certainly you've you've proven that UM do you in the 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.600 world where everything so much is on demand, and there's 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.120 so much viewing tends to be done in a binge format. 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.359 Do you still think about programming flow? Do you still 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:37.400 program due to a certain extent? I mean, I mean 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:43.880 I'm using Shameless to launch Kidding to help Kidding get 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:47.439 off the ground, the new Gym Carey show Kidding from 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.640 Jim Carrey and Michelle Gandry, and that's that's coming up 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:54.600 in September, and uh, Kidding is going to have a 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.480 better shot for having Shameless in front of it. It's 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:00.240 far from the be all on the end at all. 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:04.840 I could easily launch Kidding without Shameless, but I think 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.960 there's a compatibility between those two shows. Uh Shameless was 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:17.119 helpful and launching um smelf and so it's to use 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.119 a double negative. It doesn't not matter, but it's way 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:22.879 less important than it used to be. And more important 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:28.640 is the continual introduction of new shows on a regular basis, 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:32.199 so there's new things to cause sign up behavior, So 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:34.159 people who are subscribing to es feel like they're always 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:38.760 getting something new and interesting. Right. Because the flip side 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:41.560 of making it much easier to sign up, it's much 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:45.840 easier to easy on, easy off, and so you better 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:48.280 continue to deliver and are the fact that we have 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:55.760 four of the six top scripted shows UH, and they 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:57.520 don't all air at the same time year they lay 0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:01.199 out of the air. We're talking about Shameless and Billions 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:08.320 and the shy um and UH and Homeland UM, which 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:12.840 is not to mention Ray Donovan or who is America 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:17.360 or Kidding or smelf um. These we have more shows 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:22.199 that matter than the other premium competitors and UH, the 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:26.280 ability to lay them out across the year UH means 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:29.359 we have less of a churn issue than some of 0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:37.000 our competitors. UM. On the in the area of of 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:40.920 like the documentary programming, the sports that you're going into, 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:43.440 your having a topical late night show coming up with 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:49.560 de Susan Marrow, Um, would you Those aren't the kind 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:51.800 of shows that have, you know, a big back end 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:55.600 for somebody down the road, But those are more important 0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:57.560 to you in terms of expanding the breadth of what 0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:02.640 you offer to make it to make showtime really sticky. UM, 0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:04.080 we're able to get a lot of I mean I 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:08.080 look at different things differently, so news and documentary shows 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:12.440 like the Circus or UH, the Fourth of State, about 0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:15.720 the new York Times or by the way, um, which 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:19.720 is Emmy nominated, and it is an incredible show. And 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:22.120 you know, it really sort of looked at the first 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:24.200 year of the Trump administration from the point of view 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:26.359 of the New York Times. And it gets watched. It's 0:24:26.359 --> 0:24:29.760 getting watched. It got watched a lot last night, Um, 0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:33.199 because people are catching up to it. It has a 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:38.280 long lifespan, and it's an incredible Uh, it's an incredible 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:45.880 document and so um ah, those things I think enriched 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:48.880 the experience and they create a lot of news off 0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:53.600 the entertainment pages. Uh. You know, um, shut Up and Dribble, 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:57.160 which we announced yesterday. Um, you know, on the heels 0:24:57.280 --> 0:25:01.639 of this trip Twitter attack from the White House towards 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:05.240 Lebron James over the weekend. Here's something we've been working 0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:08.840 on for a year, smartly titled shut Up and Dribble, 0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:11.800 based on the Laura Ingraham you know Laura A. Graham's 0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:15.200 um warning at professional athletes. We just want to we 0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:16.560 want to see a play ball. We don't want to 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:21.520 hear what you have to think. Um. Just you're when 0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:23.720 you're able to have things that feel like they're in 0:25:23.760 --> 0:25:30.160 the zeitgeist, they have enormous impact on your brand. So, uh, 0:25:30.200 --> 0:25:37.040 that's the value of documentary filmmaking. UM the Trade also 0:25:37.119 --> 0:25:40.600 Emmy nominated this year Matthew Heineman. And when last year's 0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:44.920 Oscar sort of digging really deep into the drug epidemic 0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:49.480 in America, really powerful piece of filmmaking gets got watched 0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:54.080 a lot. I mean he's really showing, uh, the opioid 0:25:54.160 --> 0:25:57.920 drug the drug crisis from point of view of people 0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:01.320 living in Ohio and people out of the Mexican border 0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:05.120 growing and shipping, and you're really inside on both sides. 0:26:05.640 --> 0:26:12.199 UM boxing UM is a resurgent American sport that is 0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:16.640 starting to take UM, starting to take market share back 0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:20.399 from m m A. It's young, obviously male, but it 0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:25.280 is it has young good demographics. People perceive boxing to 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:29.400 be an older person sport, but you know, great young 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:35.920