1 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties podcasts featuring conversations with industry 2 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, Managing 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: editor of Television for Variety and Today, my guest in 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: Beverly Hills is David Nevins, President and CEO of Showtime Networks. 5 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: David is steering Showtime through a period of massive disruption 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: for the premium TV business. In our wide ranging conversation, 7 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: he talks about the new economics of direct to consumer 8 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: streaming and how it's changed the way Showtime operates. He 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: talks about the expansion of Showtime's programming mandate and what 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: it takes to compete for projects in the peak TV crush. 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: He also offers insights into the origins of Sasha Baron 12 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: Cohen's Who Is America and his thoughts on the coming 13 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: final season of Homework. David Evans, thanks so much for 14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: making time for us. So glad to be here in 15 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: this glamorous hotel room. It's the life, you know, the 16 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: life of the CEO, the life of a media reporter, 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: one hotel room after another, get it done wherever it 18 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: has to get done. It's good, um, you know, for 19 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: the last couple of years, all anybody in TV can 20 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: talk about is how much TV there is. You've been 21 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: at the helm of Showtime now certainly programming wise, now 22 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: for going on eight years, going on nine years. How 23 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: that long? Right? I guess that's right. I was. I 24 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: was going to say seven going on eight, But I 25 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: think you're right, and you have your details, correct. I 26 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: I forget that my own history. Just I'll remind you 27 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: when your kid's birthdays are coming. Okay, fair enough? Today 28 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: is my son's birthday? Actually, happy birthday? There we go, Um, 29 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: what how has we know? You know, everybody's talking about 30 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: the arms race and programming and costs, But how has 31 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: What are some of the ways that the job of 32 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: programming a premium cable network has changed in ways that 33 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't be intuitive to us, in terms of just the 34 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: enormity of competition? Are there things that you have to 35 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: do differently now because there is so much competition? I see, 36 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: it is all opportunity. I feel like the range of 37 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: the kinds of things that I can do has gotten 38 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: much more interesting. When I came to Showtime, we made 39 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: mostly uh half hour little half hour drama comedies, Californication, 40 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: and Nurse Jackie and Weeds. We had I think one 41 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: or two hour shows, Dexter being the most prominent of them. 42 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: And now I feel like I'm doing an animated show, 43 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: and I'm doing documentaries and news shows, and I'm doing 44 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: you know, really fresh, up to the minute things in 45 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: UH in the circus and really spontaneous, crazy shows like 46 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: who is America where? Um. You know, it was a 47 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: year and a half in the making, but the editing 48 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: and the tinkering is going on the last second. So 49 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: I do feel like the range of the kinds of 50 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: things I get to make has dramatically expanded. Um. But 51 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: I think you're asking a question about, you know, filling 52 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: a programming mandate in the age of UH, in the 53 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: age of streaming, in the age of a lot of 54 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: people trying to make premium television. UM, I think you 55 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: gotta go the extra mile to try to find originality. UM. 56 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: With so much stuff happening, it's UH. There's a lot 57 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: of people repeating themselves and a lot of people doing 58 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: UH playing in a similar or sandbox. So you've gotta 59 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: you gotta go further and harder for originality. And you know, 60 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: the good news is that the range of people who 61 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: want to do television h is greater than ever before. 62 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sitting there, I'm on a daily basis. Now. 63 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: It's people who have been the dominant players in the 64 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: movie business from uh Jim Carey to Russell Crowe too, 65 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: uh Jason blom or Scott Ruden to um Seth Rogan 66 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: or Ben Stiller. Um. Uh. It's it's a group of 67 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: people who probably wouldn't have been accessible uh for Showtime 68 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: six years ago. Um. And they're all interested in doing 69 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: great creative work for us. UM. But you gotta dig 70 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: a little harder, you and be a little bit more adventurous, 71 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: um than than the old days. But that's that's that's 72 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: the good news. Would you say from the time that 73 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: you certainly from the time that you started at Showtime 74 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: to now, would you say, you know, adjusting for inflation, 75 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: that the CBS Corporation is spending appreciably more on content. Definitely, absolutely, 76 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: where we are spending more. We're spending more on a 77 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: per episode basis. The level of production value that's expected 78 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: from us has gone up. And we're also spending more 79 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: because we're putting out more hours of original content than 80 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: than we did before, but our revenue has gone up 81 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: pretty dramatically in order to justify it. It's hard. It's 82 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: hard to spend more on programming if your revenue isn't 83 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,119 Speaker 1: moving in the right direction. But our revenue is moving 84 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: in the right direction. Uh, so it pays for itself. 85 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: But no question about it. And uh we're we're always 86 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: pushing for more and trying to you know, we've gotta 87 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: keep pushing for more. We gotta get rewarded for it 88 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: with new subscribers. And in a streaming universe, Um, every 89 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: time you put something new that people are interested in, 90 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: it drives sign ups. You can also put new things 91 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: on that don't drive sign ups, um, you know, in 92 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: which case you're not investing your money as well as 93 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: you can. But as long as you're putting things out 94 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: there that has a defined audience that somebody is willing 95 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: to pay money for, you can justify it. It's I'd 96 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: be interested to see the link between you announcing that 97 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: something is coming and sign ups. So people people read 98 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: in the press that you're doing a Rodger Ales mini 99 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: series with Russell Crowe and maybe Nicole Kidman, and that 100 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: that gets people's interests. Like you, you can track. I 101 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: don't believe that. I think in the in the age 102 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: of the Internet, Um, it has to be instantaneous. So 103 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: I don't think that a press announce A press announcement 104 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: may create a glow, may create some brand awareness, some 105 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: brand halo. I don't think a press announcement drive sign ups, 106 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: and I don't think there's much evidence that it does. 107 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: We did the t c A yesterday. We were trending 108 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: on Twitter, Showtime is trending, shut up, and Dribble was trending. Uh, 109 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: Homeland was trending, David Nevians was trending. I don't think 110 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: that drove sign ups. Uh, it's not going to drive 111 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: the sign ups that Sunday's episode of Who Is America 112 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: or Sunday's episode of The Affair will drive. And you 113 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,679 Speaker 1: know I see it every day. So there's a build 114 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: up of of of sign ups over the course of 115 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: the week. It peaks on Sunday, goes down a little 116 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: bit on Monday, and then keeps going down through the week, 117 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: and then starts building up again as we head towards 118 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: the weekend day Saturday Sunday peaking again. Um, and uh, 119 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: you've got to be instantaneous. So when it has to 120 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: be available. Um, I think in order to move an audience, 121 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: and for you as a programmer, that must be a 122 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: joy that now you can it is so easy to 123 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: sign up. I mean, you know in years past, it 124 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: was you had to call the cable company and stay 125 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: on for two hours and wait for two weeks. And 126 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: now people can literally push a button. Yeah. Well, the 127 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: thing that I always used to say because my background, 128 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: I was a network executive, broadcast network executive early in 129 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: my career, and then I was a producer. And when 130 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: I first came to showtime, it was the only form 131 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: of television, premium television, subscription television is the only form 132 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: where there was no direct correlation between programming and revenue. Uh. 133 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: If you sit at CBS or TNT r FX, you 134 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: can say, I'm gonna put the show on the air. 135 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: It's going to get one point six in demo and 136 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: that's going to be worth x amount of revenue. Uh. 137 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: With us, it was always so uh indirect. In fact, 138 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: you can always make the argument that less programming costs 139 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: less money and you're not gonna show any obvious loss 140 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: of subscribers. Um, it's gotten much more direct than that. 141 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: So now you can actually attribute revenue two shows and 142 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: it's UM, so you can immediately see the effect of 143 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: a show and a show that is growing. So show 144 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: like Who Is America which as growing, grew in ratings 145 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: weeks one to three and four, and uh most importantly 146 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: grows in UM we two had you know, Week one 147 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: was a very good sign up week Week two was 148 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 1: bigger than week one. That that never happened. So that's 149 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: clearly evidence of a show that is getting a ton 150 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: of word of mouth and getting in causing people to buy. 151 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: All of those people complaining that they were duped into 152 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 1: being Who Was American? The Sasha Brown Cohen Show, all 153 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: those people complaining that they were duped, that was like marketing. Yeah, 154 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: I mean I had a lot of powerful, important people 155 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: carrying the water for us, So that's always a good thing. 156 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: Let me just ask you how there was some commentary 157 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: about that show that Baron sas Sasha Brown Cohen's excuse me, 158 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: Sasha Baron Cohen's UM approach didn't play as well in 159 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen as it did a decade ago when 160 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: he was when he was on the Ali g Show. 161 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: Did you feel that when you watched it? Do you 162 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: do you accept that criticism. It felt a little out 163 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: of step with with our times right now. I don't. 164 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I think people there's it's a rough and 165 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: tumble world, and there's certain people when you know, there's 166 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: a certain sensitivity. But uh, he is a provocateur and 167 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: a brilliant artist, and I think it's really important to 168 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: create space for provocateurs to pro to provoke and and uh, 169 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: satirists to satire. And um, I I think he is 170 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: a fair editor. Uh what what he puts on the air, 171 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: he doesn't you know, he's an improv comedian, he he uh. Um. 172 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 1: The whole essence of improv is go where people will 173 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: lead you, and he lets people lead him down some 174 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: pretty crazy paths. And I think he's a truth teller 175 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: and uh so Uh, I think it's important in our 176 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: culture to allow comedians the space to provoke, do satire. 177 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: And I don't think there's anybody better than Sasha in 178 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: a pretating our times. Um yeah, I mean, I I don't. 179 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: I think he's he's he is a truth teller, and 180 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: I think he's fair and fair and how he puts 181 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 1: his episodes together. No one's ever accused him of editing 182 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: unfairly taking things out of Contextum, so he follows where 183 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: people where people lead. Um. You mentioned that that that 184 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: Who Was America was an eighteen month development process. That's 185 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: that's interesting. One thing I'm hearing from people is because 186 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: there is such a chase right now for creative talent 187 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: and programming, that development can be very accelerated, sometimes to 188 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: the detriment of the final product. But that sounds like 189 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: a very That sounds like the opposite. Yeah, I mean, 190 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: if you're going to be led by your creators, and 191 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: we try very hard to be led by by our 192 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: creators and give them the space and room and time 193 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 1: that they need. Um, sometimes you can go asked and 194 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: sometimes I like to go fast and send times. It 195 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: takes longer. And you know, Uh, this was a show 196 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: that had to be invented. The characters had to be invented, 197 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: the the concepts had to be invented. The look and 198 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: the feel and the prosthetics had to be invented. So 199 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: it took it took some time, and then it took 200 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: takes Uh. Um, you gotta you gotta do a lot 201 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: of different pieces to come over to come up with 202 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: uh stuff that is good enough to meet Sasha's barrier 203 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: for you know, his his bar for what works on television. Um, 204 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: so did he did he pitch this to you in 205 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: a nascent form or did he bring you some material 206 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: already shot that wetted your appetite? It was a nascent form, 207 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: nothing was shot. You know. We began to talk about 208 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: the possibility of you know, doing the undercover show that 209 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: he hadn't done for a very long time, and I 210 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: chased him really hard. So he was kind of he 211 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: was he was shocked by representatives or it was a 212 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 1: connection that you made torely with him. Representatives were involved. 213 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: Speaking of representatives, that's another interesting area of the business 214 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: right now. We are seeing you know, both CIA to 215 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: a greater degree endeavor the parent company of w M 216 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: E Are. They are both and now U t A 217 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: is even starting to get into the into the business 218 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: of production tiptoeing still but but it never in particular 219 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: is really building a roster. Does that concern you to 220 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: see another Yes, they could be another supplier, but they're there. 221 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: They're coming in with an agenda to help talent own 222 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: their control, their destiny. At a time when you want 223 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: to take showtime around the world, it's a lot easier 224 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: for you. I have a number of different feelings, like 225 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: I'm I'm supportive of anybody who wants to put more 226 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: capital into the production of of great television. And uh, 227 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: I think there are certain inherent conflicts of interest that 228 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: are that are dicey. It's not my issue, it's the 229 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: issue of the talent. So I think there's it's a 230 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: little dicey territory. But UM, I'm I have I have 231 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: a real open door policy, and I believe you know. UM, 232 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: somebody brings me a show that I feel like it's 233 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: going to be great for showtime, Uh, I want to 234 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: I want to facilitate that show getting on the air. 235 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: I have business priorities. It's really important to us to 236 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: own the distribution of our of our shows, and I 237 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: don't make any any bones about that. But um, because 238 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: of the way the success that we've been having, the 239 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: desirability of our programming, h nine times out of ten, 240 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: we can offer better distribution terms than anybody else. UM, 241 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: and we've had such dramatic increase in UM and the 242 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: desirability of our programming and ability to be packaged together 243 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: that more often than not, people want even big studios 244 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: want to take advantag of our our distribution deals. So 245 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: we're kind of working it out and in good ways 246 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: that I'm happy. UM. I think, uh, you know, if 247 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: you're in the talent representation business, UM, you got to 248 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: be clear about who you're working for. UM. But I'm 249 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: able to see the grays in it and the opportunities 250 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: and the opportunities for for showtime to be supplied by 251 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: UM some of the you know, agency back companies as 252 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: long as you're willing to put capital in and and uh, 253 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: we can work with them. And there's obviously you know, 254 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: they're going to get behind people with very big visions 255 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: and people that are going to come to the table 256 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: with you know, with likely with very provocative and very 257 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: kind of sizzling ideas. That's interesting. UM. So we do 258 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: business with all commerce. You know, I don't think in 259 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: this in this age, you can afford to uh close 260 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: off any avenues. Are you concerned at all that avenues 261 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: might be closing off to you? Though? We're seeing you know, 262 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: Disney and Fox are soon to be one and they 263 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: are talking very seriously about, you know, launching a truly 264 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: vertical integrated streaming platform that would that would be the 265 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: exclusive place of all Disney content. And you know you 266 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: don't do a ton of business with Disney. But one 267 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: of your one of your breakout shows this past year, Smilth, 268 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: came from ABC Studios. Does it concern you that there 269 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: might be some constriction, Well, I mean I think they're 270 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: clearly launching a streaming service that will be somewhat competitive 271 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: to us, So it means another another competitive competitor on 272 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: the block. Um, but that's not new. There's new entrance 273 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 1: entrance every day. And our brand is strong. Our relationship 274 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: with our customers wrong, our relationship with our distributors or 275 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 1: various distributors, whether it's Amazon or Comcast or UH direct 276 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: TV an A T and T which now owns my competitor, 277 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: So that the the environment has gotten more complicated Disney. 278 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: As I finished that sentence, Uh, Disney and A T 279 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: and T now own HBO. My are big competitor. UM 280 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: A T and T and Direct TV pay us a 281 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: lot of money every year, but they want to keep 282 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: selling us. So uh, it just it just makes for 283 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: strange bedfellows. And ultimately, uh, talent wants to go where 284 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: talent wants to go, and they tend to have uh 285 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: a fair amount of saying it. And if I create 286 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: a a successful platform that launches successful shows and create 287 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: a great creative environment, talent will keep wanting to come 288 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: the showtime. And I would bet that even in the 289 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: era of Disney creating whatever new streaming service are going 290 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: to create, there's still gonna be talent that studio that 291 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: wants to come this showtime that will have to be 292 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: allowed to come to showtime under acceptable deal terms in 293 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: order for them to be in business with the talent 294 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 1: that they want to be in business with. So I 295 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: think there's uh a pretty healthy ecosystem that is self policing. 296 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: That's how we look at it. Um. We we've seen 297 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: this before. We've seen the pendulum swing too. We want 298 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: to own everything too, well, maybe we want to play 299 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: the field. So it's an amazing moment. I want to 300 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 1: own everything. It's it's the economics are better and it's 301 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: better for us to own everything. But uh, I wouldn't 302 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: not want shameless And um there's there's shows with major 303 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: studios where I can we we we really do all 304 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: the distribution, but we share the ownership and we share 305 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: the upside that those deals are fine. Um, But you know, 306 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: we have a you know, there's just it's it's it's 307 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: gotten complicated. But our ability to be somewhat agnostic, to 308 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: be UM agnostic to the UM whoever supplying it to us, 309 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: to be not tied with a major distribution company we're 310 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: not tied. You know, we're not tied to Comcast, we're 311 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: not tied to direct TV gives us. There's things that 312 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: we can do that it is harder for some of 313 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: our competitors to do because we are actually an independent 314 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 1: UM company, you know, work Our company is CBS and Showtime, 315 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: which is small in the world that we live in. 316 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: But it also gives us flexibility deal flexibility that some 317 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: of my competitors don't have. We're not like Netflix, where 318 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: you know you're we'll pay you a little bit of premium. 319 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: You have no upside your uh, your international distribution can 320 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 1: take a nap. Your domestic syndication people they can I 321 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: can nap UM. Uh. We're still attractive place for independence 322 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: or the semi independence to do business UM because UM. 323 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: Because we can we can generate hits that have ancillary value. Certainly, 324 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: certainly you've you've proven that UM do you in the 325 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: world where everything so much is on demand, and there's 326 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: so much viewing tends to be done in a binge format. 327 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: Do you still think about programming flow? Do you still 328 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: program due to a certain extent? I mean, I mean 329 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm using Shameless to launch Kidding to help Kidding get 330 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: off the ground, the new Gym Carey show Kidding from 331 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: Jim Carrey and Michelle Gandry, and that's that's coming up 332 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: in September, and uh, Kidding is going to have a 333 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: better shot for having Shameless in front of it. It's 334 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: far from the be all on the end at all. 335 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: I could easily launch Kidding without Shameless, but I think 336 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: there's a compatibility between those two shows. Uh Shameless was 337 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: helpful and launching um smelf and so it's to use 338 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: a double negative. It doesn't not matter, but it's way 339 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: less important than it used to be. And more important 340 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: is the continual introduction of new shows on a regular basis, 341 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 1: so there's new things to cause sign up behavior, So 342 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: people who are subscribing to es feel like they're always 343 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: getting something new and interesting. Right. Because the flip side 344 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: of making it much easier to sign up, it's much 345 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: easier to easy on, easy off, and so you better 346 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: continue to deliver and are the fact that we have 347 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: four of the six top scripted shows UH, and they 348 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: don't all air at the same time year they lay 349 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: out of the air. We're talking about Shameless and Billions 350 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: and the shy um and UH and Homeland UM, which 351 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: is not to mention Ray Donovan or who is America 352 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: or Kidding or smelf um. These we have more shows 353 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: that matter than the other premium competitors and UH, the 354 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: ability to lay them out across the year UH means 355 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: we have less of a churn issue than some of 356 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: our competitors. UM. On the in the area of of 357 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 1: like the documentary programming, the sports that you're going into, 358 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: your having a topical late night show coming up with 359 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: de Susan Marrow, Um, would you Those aren't the kind 360 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: of shows that have, you know, a big back end 361 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: for somebody down the road, But those are more important 362 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: to you in terms of expanding the breadth of what 363 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: you offer to make it to make showtime really sticky. UM, 364 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: we're able to get a lot of I mean I 365 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: look at different things differently, so news and documentary shows 366 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: like the Circus or UH, the Fourth of State, about 367 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: the new York Times or by the way, um, which 368 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: is Emmy nominated, and it is an incredible show. And 369 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: you know, it really sort of looked at the first 370 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: year of the Trump administration from the point of view 371 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: of the New York Times. And it gets watched. It's 372 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: getting watched. It got watched a lot last night, Um, 373 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: because people are catching up to it. It has a 374 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: long lifespan, and it's an incredible Uh, it's an incredible 375 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: document and so um ah, those things I think enriched 376 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 1: the experience and they create a lot of news off 377 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: the entertainment pages. Uh. You know, um, shut Up and Dribble, 378 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: which we announced yesterday. Um, you know, on the heels 379 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: of this trip Twitter attack from the White House towards 380 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: Lebron James over the weekend. Here's something we've been working 381 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: on for a year, smartly titled shut Up and Dribble, 382 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: based on the Laura Ingraham you know Laura A. Graham's 383 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: um warning at professional athletes. We just want to we 384 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: want to see a play ball. We don't want to 385 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: hear what you have to think. Um. Just you're when 386 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: you're able to have things that feel like they're in 387 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: the zeitgeist, they have enormous impact on your brand. So, uh, 388 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: that's the value of documentary filmmaking. UM the Trade also 389 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: Emmy nominated this year Matthew Heineman. And when last year's 390 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: Oscar sort of digging really deep into the drug epidemic 391 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: in America, really powerful piece of filmmaking gets got watched 392 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: a lot. I mean he's really showing, uh, the opioid 393 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: drug the drug crisis from point of view of people 394 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: living in Ohio and people out of the Mexican border 395 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 1: growing and shipping, and you're really inside on both sides. 396 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: UM boxing UM is a resurgent American sport that is 397 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: starting to take UM, starting to take market share back 398 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: from m m A. It's young, obviously male, but it 399 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: is it has young good demographics. People perceive boxing to 400 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: be an older person sport, but you know, great young 401 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: African American, Latino uh demos and uh with that goes 402 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: a lot of young white kids to watching boxing, and 403 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: uh it is UM it's become a real part of 404 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: who we are. And UM we have certain people exiting, 405 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 1: you know, some of our competition slowly exiting the business 406 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: and we become the dominant home and there's there's great 407 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: value and you know, I don't think we're gonna be 408 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: competing for uh NBA or NFL rights anytime soon, but 409 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: to be able to be the most important home for 410 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: a major sport has has real ongoing value and uh um. 411 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: You know, some of our biggest single night sign ups 412 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: are boxing events, so uh, you know, we're we're we're 413 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: bullish about that and so you know, we're offering we're 414 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: trying to be number one or number two and and 415 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: everything that we're doing UM, but we're slowly expanding the 416 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: range of what we're doing. Jesus and Marrow, I think 417 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: UH for people under thirty five is a home run 418 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: and I think they have unlimited potential to get uh 419 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: um to really to really get big. Those guys are 420 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: next league talent. They're not UM. And I think the 421 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: really original you know so much of Late Night Calm 422 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: and he kind of comes out of UM either that 423 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: night Show or the Daily Show and Jesus America come 424 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: from a different place, and I think they will the 425 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: Bronx Okays called the Bronx um and uh and they 426 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: just have their own voice, and I think they're gonna 427 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: be uh They're gonna be a long time force and 428 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: it is interesting that all these things that we're talking 429 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: about you never heard, you never rarely heard Showtime or 430 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: HBO in the context of something that was happening in 431 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: the headlines. And I think now we're in the headlines 432 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: a lot, you know, UH, UM, Sasha Baron Cohen makes headlines. UM, 433 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: shut Up and Dribble Yesterday makes headlines. Of course, it's 434 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: a headline when a long running, UH, celebrated show like Homeland, 435 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: UM announces it's going into its final season. UM. But 436 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: the ability for Sasha Baron Cohen to make front page 437 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: of the New York Times UM before it's even launched, 438 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: because major politicians are UM, you know, coming out talking 439 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: about their experience with the show. UM. It's UM. It's 440 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: good to make noise and it's good to make ways. 441 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: And I think that we've had a pretty consistent ability 442 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: to anticipate the zeitgeist and sort of be in the 443 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: right place at the right time. I mean, certainly Shut 444 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: Up and Dribble as a case of being in the 445 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: right place at the right time. So you have the 446 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: show about uh, the changing politics of being an African 447 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: American athlete, UH, centered on Lebron James and you're ready 448 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: to announce it on the Monday after Um, that was 449 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: the dominant Twitter story of the weekend, Trump versus Lebron No, 450 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: you couldn't buy that. So there's a certain amount of 451 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: luck involved in that. But it's also because we're uh, 452 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: we're fishing in the right waters. And you know, Vinny Malholtra, 453 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: who's buying you know, and making making the decisions on 454 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: our documentaries and making those decisions, is fishing in the 455 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: right waters and he's not, um, you know, he's you know, 456 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: we're doing stuff about the New York Times, about uh, 457 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: the FBI versus the presidency because we kind of saw 458 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: about a year ago that this was going to be 459 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: an important story and got Alex Gibney to do it. 460 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: And it's a historical documentary. But that's a fraught relationship 461 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: over time, um uh you know, And you have to 462 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: have people inside the organization who are who have their 463 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: finger on the pulse, um and care about that and 464 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: make that a brand priority in order to have those 465 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: lucky moments. I have to ask you, of course about Homeland. 466 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: That's got to be very for you personally. That was 467 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: literally the first show you greenlit when you came to showtime. 468 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: And you know, I don't have to tell you how 469 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: rare it is that something like that in eight years, 470 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: eight seasons now, going on nine seasons later, it's you know, 471 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: it's going to have a very triumphant exit, no doubt. Yeah, 472 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: I think you know, um, I you know, Homeland has 473 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: been a very special show. I think it's done an amazing, 474 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: amazing job of reinventing itself over time. I mean it 475 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: really began as the carry in Brodie story, UM, and 476 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: there was a huge question would it what would it 477 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: be after Brodie? UM? And I always knew and Alex 478 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: gonz always knew that there was a core, There was 479 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: a great character in Carrie Matheson, and there was a 480 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: core franchise and what is the place of America in 481 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: the world in the twenty one century? This complicated place, 482 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: and that was always the subject of the show through 483 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: the spy franchise. And he I think he did an 484 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: incredible job of reinventing it post that initial kind of 485 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: push pull kind of romance um story, and then he 486 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: reinvented it year after year and through very careful research, 487 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: you know, being a great storyteller and and really good 488 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: lines of Uh, information that's coming to him from the 489 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: State Department, CIA and all the people he talked to 490 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: in Washington. He's got good sources. Has made is reinvented 491 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: a show really well year after year. And Uh. When 492 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: they first started talking about Alex saying, I think I 493 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: might be done, I think I'm ready to be done. 494 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: You know, this is the third year of a three 495 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: year deal. I tried to have a little bit of 496 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: a cooling off period to make sure that he was 497 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: ready to be done. Um, and he was. When he 498 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: was steadfast about it, it felt like this is the 499 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: right time he's I think he's gonna have a great ending. 500 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: I think, Um. You know, Claire Daines and Manny Patinkin 501 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: have just had uh done incredible work. I think they've 502 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: loved their experiences. It's been a very happy experience for 503 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: everybody involved. You know. I also have to handed to 504 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: Howard Gordon, Leslie, Lincoln Gladder. They've all been there the 505 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: whole way. Um and um and Rick Rosen actually uh 506 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: endeavor age and who kind of represents everybody everybody involved. 507 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: And and while we're naming names, give to Bert Sulky, 508 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: uh Foxe uh, Gary Levine and Randy Rounkole at showtime, 509 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: and it's been a very happy experience for everyone involved. 510 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: And every one of those people has been there from 511 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: the beginning. UM, and I think it is will go 512 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: out a real winner as a programmer. Does it give 513 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: you a little uneas though, because it has been such 514 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: a cornerstone of your schedule. I believe in you know, 515 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: I believe last as long as your natural born life 516 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: and then uh and then move on. I believe in 517 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: the renewal of television. Uh. We have strong shows at 518 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: every stage of their lifestyle. We've got a brand new 519 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: show in uh, The Shy, which is showing real signs 520 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: of being a hit. We've got Billions, which just finished 521 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: season three stronger than ever um and was robbed, was 522 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: robbed of Emmy nominations. It's just not It's for whatever reason, 523 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: Billions is not nailed that particular popularity contest. And I 524 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: think it has something to do with uh, um, the 525 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: glossiness of it, the perceived brow nous of it. I'm 526 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: not sure, but it is as uh. I mean, I 527 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: reread a lot of scripts and as as you know, 528 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: it is as well written and well acted as any 529 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: of the shows that are that are nominated, so you know, 530 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: but anyway, UM, I feel great about where we stands. 531 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: We have we have shows that every every step. We 532 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: have not had too many follow years where there's been 533 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: nothing stick. We just add a new show and add 534 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: a new show and slightly picking up the pace of 535 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: adding the new shows. So I think, um, we're incredibly 536 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: well positioned for the future. Um, these last couple of 537 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: years have been have been great with um the Shy 538 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: and Smith and Billions and I think Kidding is gonna 539 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: matter and uh, and you know, two new shows I'm 540 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: really excited about in Black Monday with Don Cheetle and 541 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,479 Speaker 1: Regina Hall and Andrew Reynolds and uh, then you're gonna 542 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: see Sitting on a Hill with Kevin Bacon and all 543 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: this Hodge and I think these are all sort of 544 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: going to be positive have positive impact on our on 545 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: our service. Have you talked at all, even in the 546 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: broad strokes with Alex Ganza about the vision, I'm not. 547 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: I don't expect you to give it to no, I 548 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: actually haven't. I mean I've had I know what he 549 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: was thinking a year or two years ago, because I 550 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: had this conversation with him, you know, along the way 551 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: in previous seasons. But in this period between uh, last 552 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: season and this season, when we were having the cooling 553 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: off period, are you sure you're you're ready to end it? Um? 554 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: I haven't. I have not pushed him on that conversation. 555 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: And I think now he's getting ready to go to 556 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: d C for his you know, with the with the 557 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: writing staff and actually some of the actors. I think 558 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: Claire is hoping to be part of it, but she's 559 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: also expecting about to have a baby. Um, And I 560 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: know better than to ask him too many questions before 561 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: he goes to d C. So Hill to all me 562 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: and his right time. So I knew, I knew where 563 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: his head was a year ago, but I'm not sure 564 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: where his head is today, to be honest. Another interesting 565 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,839 Speaker 1: thing about Homeland is for all those people, all those 566 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: heavy hitters, Alex Leslie, Lincoln, Gladder to stayed with it. 567 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 1: Yeah that's amazing. You know, used to be to three 568 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 1: seasons and you know a shore runner would want to 569 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: go onto something else, and uh, it can work either way. 570 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not a verse in some situations too. 571 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: You've told the stories, you know, one writer has told 572 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: the stories in their brain against a certain concept and 573 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: then let's get somebody else's brain in there. So I'm 574 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: not against it, um, but it is a beautiful thing 575 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: when you have somebody really stay with the work of 576 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: art overtime, UH, make it really personal in the way 577 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 1: that you know, let's be honest, fundamentally, it's the mind 578 00:37:54,360 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: meld between Alex Sinclair. It's what at its core uh 579 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 1: and and Leslie has been a beautiful, beautiful realizer of that. 580 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: But you know, television at its deepest core is about 581 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: the back and forth between writer and actor. And UH, 582 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: I really admire the creative relationship that developed between Alex 583 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: and Claire, and I think it's a real tribute to 584 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: both of them as generous um, generous artists. They kind 585 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: of like, we're very careful to manage that relationship and 586 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: U um, Claire takes care of Alex and Alex takes 587 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: care of Claire, and it's a beautiful thing. And then 588 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:47,319 Speaker 1: you have you know, Mandy and Leslie uh bringing their 589 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 1: top spin. It's it's it's kind of very exciting to watch. 590 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: Could we see continuing Adventures of Saul Barronson? Is there 591 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: any kind of franchising or spinoff even remotely possible. It's 592 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: always possible. I I think it's important that the show 593 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: come to an end, come to a great end before 594 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: any of that stuff is really you know, we're not 595 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,720 Speaker 1: a broadcast network. Are not obliged to do something like that. Um. 596 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,879 Speaker 1: I would always listen to it. Uh, you know, any 597 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,359 Speaker 1: ideas that the core creators wanted to talk about, but 598 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: I wouldn't hold my breath. Or could it be the 599 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: kind of thing that would rest for a couple of 600 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 1: years and then maybe they might have an inspiration? Absolutely, 601 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: I mean I do believe that. Um As I say, 602 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: the core idea the franchise, which is, yes, it's a 603 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: spy franchise, but at its core, what is America's place 604 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 1: in a complicated century world? That will not be an 605 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,919 Speaker 1: obsolete idea, you know until we get to the twenty 606 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: second century. You know that that that construct is kind 607 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: of you could adapted to your own challenge right now? 608 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: What is Showtime's place in an expanding programming universe? My 609 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 1: question for you. You became CEO just about two and 610 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: a half years ago. Um, what and you came up 611 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 1: as a programming executive at NBC in the in the 612 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: real you know, glory days of Muss TV Fox. You 613 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: worked as a producer. When you became the top executive 614 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: at showtime, what did you find You know, obviously you 615 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: brought an incredible programming resume, what did you find personally 616 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 1: hard or challenging or what was the learning curve for you? 617 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 1: Like to become a CEO. I find myself as motivated 618 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: by the business side as I do by the creative 619 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,240 Speaker 1: side at this point in my career, and becoming CEO 620 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: two and a half years ago coincided with a radical 621 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: change and how we make our money uh UM. I 622 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: came in about six months before we launched O T 623 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: T and uh UM, and so I was sort of 624 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: there in the planning and has radically transformed our our organization, 625 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 1: how we market Who the people that we have in 626 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: our marketing department are. We have um a core group 627 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 1: of engineers. We never had engineers at at show time, 628 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: with exception that people who put put the signal up 629 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: on the satellite. But UM uh so all that is 630 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: really different. So I was kind of there for the 631 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: um you know, able to shape the transformation of an organization, 632 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,799 Speaker 1: transformation of a of a of a culture. And I 633 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:45,439 Speaker 1: find that incredibly motivating and fulfilling and uh so, um yeah, 634 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: in one sense, I stepping onto a moving train, but 635 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 1: um I was stepping onto a train that was moving 636 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 1: in a significantly different direction. And uh and really able 637 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: to shape that that that new direction. And so I 638 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: find that, you know, incredibly rewarding. Great, Well, congratulations on 639 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,479 Speaker 1: your success today, Thank you so much for your time. 640 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: Thank you all right, thanks for listening. Be sure to 641 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: join us next week for another episode of Strictly Business 642 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 1: m