1 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: never told to you. And it's gift giving season for 3 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: some of us anyway, And if you're thinking that you 4 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: want to make your own gifts this year, or if 5 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: you want to decorate a wedding, perhaps you are not alone. 6 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: D I y Crafting is having a moment, and I 7 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: have a feeling a lot of you listeners are super 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: creative and crafty. In fact, I know a lot of 9 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: you are because you email in with some of the 10 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: stuff that you've created and we love it. Please keep 11 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: it up, so yeah, let us know what you're making. 12 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, enjoy this classic episode about the 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: d I y craft Revival. Welcome to Stuff Mob Never 14 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: told You from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and 15 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. And Caroline, 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: I think I've shared this with you before. When I 17 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 1: was younger, as in during my childhood, my mom taught 18 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: me and my sisters how to cross stitch, and I 19 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: learned how to crochet, and I spent a lot of 20 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: time doing that kind of yarn work, needlework. I tempted 21 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: to learn how to knit, but that's as far as 22 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: my skill set got me. I have no such skill 23 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: set to speak of. Um. I made a gem Halloween 24 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: costume a couple of years ago, and man, those stitches 25 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: on the silver belt that I had to make, we're 26 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: embarrassing pretty the chunky kind of stitch. Yeah, it was 27 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: just like up and down, in and out. Hey. But 28 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: there there you go. You're sewing. Um. I will say though, 29 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: after reading up for this episode on the revival of 30 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: Crafting and Handmade, I want to pick up my crochet 31 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: needles again. Yeah. I want to make something. I don't 32 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: know what, but I gotta I've got a hankering to 33 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: make something. Yeah. Well, it's also the holiday season, and 34 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why we wanted to talk about 35 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: crafting is because with gift buying these days, a lot 36 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: more people are turning to local sellers and looking specifically 37 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: for handmade crafted items. Yeah. I actually bought my boyfriend 38 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: one of his Christmas presents is something that is handcrafted 39 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,399 Speaker 1: by an artisan somewhere. I don't know, New Jersey or something. 40 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: I don't really know where it's from, but it is 41 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: handmade and I can't say what it is on the 42 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: podcast in case he listens. Yeah, I don't know if 43 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: he listens or not. Well, just in case. But follow 44 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: up question, though, Caroline, this won't give anything away. Can 45 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: you say whether you bought it on Etsy? I did 46 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: not buy it on Etsy, but I bought it on 47 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: another website that features very small production type of projects. Okay, 48 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: so in Etsy type of store. Well, we've got to 49 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: talk about etc. When it comes to holiday shopping, because 50 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: this past Black Friday weekend they had their hugest sales 51 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: weekend ever. Uh. They had a sixty year over year 52 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: increase in sales compared to last year, which you don't 53 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: need to have a degree in business and marketing to 54 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,119 Speaker 1: know that. That is a lot. That is a lot. 55 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: And it's interesting to read the trend stories about Etsy 56 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: around this time every year because every single year the 57 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: lead is like, holy goodness, Etsy is selling even more 58 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: stuff than they did last year. The percent increases are ridiculous, 59 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: and the website enjoys forty two million unique visitors per 60 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: month going to more than eight hundred thousand shops filled 61 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: with fifteen million products. I know that when I go 62 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: on Etsy, just as like a casual browser. You know, 63 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: if I'm not specifically looking for something. It can be overwhelming. 64 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: There is so much stuff on there and you kind 65 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: of have to weed through a lot too. Yeah, And 66 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: for people out there who are really invested in crafting 67 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: and handmade, don't worry. We aren't just going to talk 68 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: about Etsy. But I feel like etc. Is such a 69 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: household name and one of the reasons, big reasons I 70 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: would say, for crafting kind of re entering the mainstream 71 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: in the past five ten years. And the incredible thing 72 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: about Etsy is how quickly it has picked up speed 73 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: because as a website, it turned profitable in two thousand 74 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: nine and it only been live at that point for 75 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: a less than four years, which, if you know anything 76 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: about digital marketing, turning a profit that quickly is pretty good. 77 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: And by two thousand twelve, it was generating almost nine 78 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars in sales alone, Yeah, which is pretty 79 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: darn impressive that that many people are spending that much 80 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: money on handmade or mostly handmade goods. Etsy itself charges 81 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: about twenty cents for every item listed and makes about 82 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: three point five percent of every sale. And that said, 83 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: though a minority of sellers are full time et s 84 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: prenewers um I actually know of a woman here in 85 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: Atlanta who started a business on Etsy a few years back, 86 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: just making really cute handmade labels for things like preserve 87 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: jars and labels. Now she has a lot of things 88 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: for um, like wedding place cards and things like that, 89 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: and now she does the still on the side of 90 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: her full time job. But Caroline, she's making probably twenty 91 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: five th extra dollars a year. Whoa, whoa. That is 92 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: so much more money. It's incredible that that is incredible, 93 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: And I mean that's also so much more money than 94 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: just your average as a seller makes. That's true. Yeah, 95 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,799 Speaker 1: she's definitely at the top of her game in terms 96 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: of that, because the average seller is making under four 97 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year actually, right, so basically just enough 98 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: to notice the difference in your income and be able 99 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: to pay for things, but not enough to quit your 100 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: day job basically. But nevertheless, even though people and and 101 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: it's largely women, aren't making enough to just retire on 102 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: and as at the retirement fund um, it's still a 103 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: new kind of industry, right. It's this thing. It's part 104 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: of a growing micro business economy basically, and a lot 105 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: of people talk about how the government fails to capture 106 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: a lot of these sellers in that exists in these 107 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: and formal economies are kind of falling through the cracks 108 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: because if you think about it in terms of like 109 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: the larger economy, we're in an interesting time now. We're 110 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: kind of coming out of the recession and everything, but 111 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: we still have middle class issues. We still have issues 112 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: of the disappearing middle class and people not being able 113 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: to find work. And so the majority of Etsy sellers 114 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: are combining, actually combining multiple sources of income. Only twenty 115 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,239 Speaker 1: have full time jobs outside of Etsy. And one feature 116 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: of Etsy that is really appealing to women, in particularly moms, 117 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: is that the child care issues with an Etsy job 118 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: or obviously as about as flexible as you can get 119 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: because you are oftentimes working in your home or as 120 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: some women will describe how you know, after the kids 121 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: will go to bed, then they can start sewing, working 122 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: on their projects. And I mean, I think it it's 123 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: clear from what we're talking about that it Etsy businesses 124 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: are are serious business for a lot of people. Etsy 125 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: did a survey looking at I think more than like 126 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: five thousand of their sellers and found that se sellers 127 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: say their shops are their businesses, and nine of those 128 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: want to grow their sales, but only to something that 129 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: they themselves can manage. So the bulk of people on Etsy, 130 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,679 Speaker 1: I would venture to say, are not trying to create 131 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: some mega corporation from their sewing or their stuffed animals 132 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: or whatever, you know, things like that. They they still 133 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: want to be considered a small time crafter, but that 134 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: extra income, especially in this economy, can make a huge 135 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: difference for a lot of people. But more broadly speaking, 136 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: some people point to Etsy as a sign of a 137 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,599 Speaker 1: craft revival that we're in. UM. Chris Anderson, who is 138 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: the founding editor of Wired magazine, called it the maker 139 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: movement UM and other people have given it other terms. 140 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 1: Your your crafters, you're makers, your handmade artisans, whatever you 141 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: want to call it. There is certainly a resurgence in 142 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: people making things, maybe more slowly and by hand and 143 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: in smaller numbers. And so this actually kind of harkens 144 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: back to an interview that you fair listeners might have 145 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: listened to previously that we did with Emily Matcher, who's 146 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 1: the author of Homeward Bound, and she's a big part 147 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: of this, you know, quote unquote new domesticity movement. Yeah, 148 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: she focuses a lot on all of the various kinds 149 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: of crafts that people are doing and how that even 150 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: extends into people are doing homesteading and having backyard chicken 151 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: coops and all of how all of those different things intersect. 152 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: But when we look at this craft aspect, it's interesting 153 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: to see how it started, because it did not start 154 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: with Etsy, as I'm sure a lot of listeners know 155 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: and are waiting for us to hopefully say, no, it 156 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: did not start with Etsy. Um. In the book, which 157 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: is also a documentary Handmade Nation by Faith Levine and 158 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: Courtney him Roule, they have a delightful timeline of what 159 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 1: they call the New Wave of Craft, and they begin 160 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: their timeline in n and it really starts out this 161 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: new wave of craft as they call it, in sort 162 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: of a Riot Girl type of fashion, with a lot 163 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: of things happening in the Portland's, Seattle Olympia, Washington area, 164 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: and it's a lot of women initiated alternative crafting communities 165 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: and zines that start popping up. Yeah, and this should 166 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: sound familiar too if you listen to our Riot Girl 167 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: episode in which we talked about zines and d I 168 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: y and punk music and all of those things. People 169 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: making their own clothes, making their own publications, all all 170 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: of that stuff. And so this is kind of happening 171 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: around that same time. So in the period nine nine 172 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: we have some developments in this movement by Olympia dot 173 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: Com goes live, a glitter Boards, an alternative crafting community 174 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: goes live. You have get Crafty dot com which goes live. 175 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: It's put out there by Gene Rayla. Uh. And then 176 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: young Blood here in Atlanta opens which is pretty awesome 177 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: store if I do say so myself. Yeah, and uh 178 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: for fans of Bust magazine, that's when it's She's Crafty 179 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,719 Speaker 1: column starts up. And from there, once we enter into 180 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: the two thousands, things start to move from just communities 181 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: and groups to actually having more brick and mortar establishments, 182 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: kind of like Young Blood here in Atlanta. Uh. You 183 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: have things like Needles and Pens opening up in San Francisco, 184 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: Coggan Pearl opening up in uh New York. You have 185 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: I Heart Rummage in Seattle, and then you have more 186 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: websites start to pop up, one of which is not 187 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: Martha dot org. Because remember this is also during the 188 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: heyday of Martha Stewart who helped fuel some of this 189 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: d I Y ethos. But this is not exactly the 190 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: Martha Stewart tie type of crafting. Yeah, I would say 191 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: they're more parallel. They're not exactly interring. I mean they 192 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: are intersecting. But I would venture to say that maybe 193 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: the people who are reading Martha's magazines and watching her 194 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: TV shows are taking a different route than the women 195 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: who are participating in this sort of craft revival movement. Yeah. 196 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: I think of it more as like the punk rock 197 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: Martha Stewart. So yeah, as we move forward, it and 198 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: this movement starts to get bigger and bigger and attract 199 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: more people who are just like super intenitting. We get 200 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: things like the Austin Craft Mafia UM and a bunch 201 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: of other communities popping up in in different cities across 202 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: the country. And then you get fairs and festivals. Um, 203 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: you get the Ladies Independent Design League starting in New 204 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: York City in the mid two thousands, and just bigger 205 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: craft fairs and try auctions continue to pop up. Yeah, 206 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: and you also have specialty magazines like Ready Made and 207 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: Craft Magazine launching And then yes, we must circle back 208 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: again to Etsy, which goes live in two thousand six. 209 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: And the story of how Etsy is born is interesting 210 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: because it starts out with this guy named Robert kalin 211 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: who was originally brought in by Gene raally A to 212 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: redesign her site, get crafty dot com. And she had 213 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: found the site she'd been going for a while and 214 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: he came in and he had kind of been like 215 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: doing other things and was kind of trying to find 216 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 1: his way in the business world, figure out what he 217 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: wanted to do, and he really gravitated toward this radical 218 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: crafting ethos and all of these festivals and fairs that 219 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: were happening as well, and a light bulb went off 220 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: in his head, saying, you know what, what if we 221 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: developed a business model around all of these individual sellers 222 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: tables that I see at all these festivals. Yeah, And 223 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 1: there was a New York Times article talking about this 224 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: movement and mentioning Robert Kalen, and it doesn't paint him, 225 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: I think, in the most favorable light, but it is 226 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: interesting to read because you know, if you just say, like, oh, 227 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: this guy came in to redesign this lady's craft website 228 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: and he got the idea to make money. It's it's 229 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: actually much more than that. He was a philosophy student. 230 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: You know. He spoke at length to the New York 231 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: Times reporter about the handmade philosophy. He said, it's not 232 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: a fat ats a resurgence, and so it was more 233 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: than just a guy wanting to make money off of 234 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: a trend that was built largely on the hands and 235 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: knitting needles of women. Um, he really found himself fighting 236 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: against the big box store mentality in our country. Yeah. 237 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: I mean, there was definitely a very re real idealism 238 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: that was going into the founding of Etsy, and it 239 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: took off pretty quickly because by late two thousand seven 240 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: it had seventy thousand sellers, nine percent of whom were women, 241 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: and on July twenty nine, two thousand nine, it achieved 242 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: its one millionth sale. Right. So, as Etsy is building 243 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: its following and getting more and more sellers on their 244 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: selling their amazing creative weares it's still part of a subculture. 245 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: It's still not taking over the market, and it's still 246 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: not infiltrating the general online shopping consciousness, you could say. Um. 247 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: And during this time, Faith Levine, who we mentioned at 248 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: the top of the podcast, she's the author of Handmade 249 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: Nation and also made the documentary about this community. She's 250 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: taking notice and she really wanted to document what was 251 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, and so she traveled around the country 252 00:15:54,920 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: interviewing crafters, makers, artisans about their process, their philosophy, um, 253 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: their experience being someone who's in this handmade world. And 254 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: she really wanted to make that documentary Handmade Nation, she says, 255 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: because she could sense that the crafting tide was swelling 256 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: and she wanted to do this herself and make this 257 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: documentary in the right way. Before, as she told it, 258 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: there would be some kind of reality show about cute 259 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: girls crafting that would just ruin the whole thing. Can 260 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: you imagine. I can't imagine. I can't imagine. I can 261 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: totally imagine. Um. Yeah, she has an interesting quote. She said, 262 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: I believe the simple act of making something, anything with 263 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: your hands is quite a political ripple in a world 264 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: dominated by mass production, and people choosing to make something 265 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: will turn these small ripples into waves. And I mean 266 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: she should know. She went from just crafting zines and 267 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: sock monkeys in her apartment to churning out a ton 268 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: of products in eating stuffed owls, which are a thing 269 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: now quite a thing, quite a thing. Uh. And and 270 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: that was back in two thousand two that she was 271 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: selling a ton of her stuff online. But again echoing 272 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: that Riot Girl podcast, her description in a profile in 273 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: The New York Times in two thousand nine was a 274 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: quote sometimes artist who made punk rock magazines. So clearly 275 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: we've got that hardcore d I Y undercurrent. And in 276 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: those interviews with those crafters and Handmade Nation, there are 277 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: these themes that constantly come up of wanting to be 278 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: anti industrial, anti institutional, anti consumerists, and also this appeal 279 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: of being highly entrepreneurial. And so you really see this 280 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: intersection of politics with these handmade goods. And in this 281 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: PBS article about Handmade Nation, because it got a lot 282 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: of press at the time, it described how quilts are 283 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: cutting edge outlets for self expression and samplers carry messages 284 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: of anti consumerism, environmentalism, and feminism. It's interesting. I mean, 285 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: now you know we're coming. I feel like this is 286 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: a conversation that we've had, you know, obviously on different 287 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: topics in the podcast before, about things that are considered 288 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: feminine being reclaimed, and you know, it's part of this 289 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: this quote unquote new domesticity, a term itself which doesn't 290 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: necessarily sit well with everyone, but more of just that 291 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: political movement towards Okay, well, quilting is such a woman thing, 292 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: but I'm going to do it, and it's going to 293 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: be radical because you know, it's it's part of a 294 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: new upsurge of creativity, of creation. Yeah, and there are 295 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: even crafters out there who specifically make hand goods, not 296 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: so much for the utility or for home decor or 297 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: whatever you want it to be, but actually to make 298 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: a direct political statement. So you might have people like 299 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: arn't bombers out there who are going and wrapping up 300 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: different things out in structures, out in parks or um, 301 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: just like out in public spaces um. And and there's 302 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: a term for this, it's called craftivism, which I believe 303 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: was coined by Betsy Greer, who was the author of 304 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: Knitting for Good. And there are all of these groups 305 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: as well who are into craftivism. And it's not just 306 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: yarn bombing, but there is a lot of knitting involved. Yeah. 307 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: And these groups include, uh, people like the Anarchist Knitting Circle, 308 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: the Revolutionary Knitting Circle, and micro Revolt. And it's funny 309 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: we Christen and I read the study that talked about 310 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: this whole craftivist movement and the gender aspects of it 311 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: and how this is not Martha's crafting. You know, you're 312 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: you're taking something like you know, knitting, which happens in 313 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: the home and it's traditionally like your grandmother doing it, 314 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: but you're pairing it with these quote unquote masculine ideas 315 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: about revolution and un revolt and anarchy and like knitting 316 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: death matches, things that are very competitive and outside the home, 317 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: and just kind of mixing up those stereotypes. Yeah, and 318 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: just the very act of taking that domestic work into 319 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: the public sphere where it's completely unavoidable. You can't not 320 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: look at a giant tree that was in Atlanta on 321 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 1: a on a main thoroughfare that had been nit bombed. 322 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: And this also, though, two points to the massive spectrum 323 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,479 Speaker 1: of Etsy and crafting in general. From this, you know, 324 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: the anarchist knitting circle all the way down to the 325 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 1: person who is just making a few extra bucks selling 326 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: some thrifted clothes or handmade stationary, whatever it might be. 327 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: It's kind of fascinating to see how all of these 328 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: different people are being united knit together. If you will 329 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: through this movement. Yeah, well, I mean certainly, though not 330 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: everyone is excited about it. You know, we spoke about 331 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: the Martha audience, and I certainly don't want to put 332 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: any Martha fans down out there at all. But in 333 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: speaking to The New York Times, Andrew Wagner, the editor 334 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: of American Craft magazine, said that older generations of crafters 335 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: didn't really take a shine to this new trend. Basically, 336 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: he said, the old guard was saying, it took me 337 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: twenty years to master my craft, and these kids think 338 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: they can just start by stitching owls. And I see, 339 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,479 Speaker 1: I see where that attitude would come from. Because if 340 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: you're making a quilt because you're an expert quilter, and 341 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: whether you want to make money or whether you're just 342 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: making it for your grandkids, you might be like, what 343 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: are these kids doing, you know, making stuffed birds? But 344 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: you know, to that, I say, like, if somebody wants 345 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: to freaking stitch a stuffed animal, let them. Yeah. And 346 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: the thing is, Wagner was going on to talk about 347 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: how they have retooled. That's kind of a pun American 348 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: Craft Magazine to bridge those two worlds, because as the 349 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: thing about it is those craft people of your share 350 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the same ideologies as these radical crafters today. 351 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: Because there was something called the arts and crafts movement 352 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: that happened first in the United States at the turn 353 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: of the century, and then there was a revival in 354 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies. And it's those those baby boomers 355 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: of the sixties and seventies who took parton that revival 356 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: who might look askance at what's going on today and 357 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: say that it's not legit. But those arts and crafts 358 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: movements were still fueled by the same reactions against mass production, 359 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: industrialization and things like that. Yeah, it's very cyclical. I mean, 360 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: our older generations, I would hope can see that, you know, 361 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: people our age participating in crafting and things like that 362 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: are just part of the same cycle that they themselves 363 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: were on. Um. The movement in the sixties and seventies 364 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: emerged thanks to Princeton professor Robert Judson Clark, who in 365 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two directed an exhibition about the American Arts 366 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 1: and Crafts movement from eighteen seventy six to nineteen sixteen. So, 367 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: I mean it goes back and back and back and 368 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: back that these arts and crafts cycles have popped up. Yeah, 369 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: And and the first arts and crafts movement actually started 370 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 1: in England during the late Victorian period and was promoted 371 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: by theorists and art critic John Ruskin. And then it 372 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: travels across the Atlantic to the United States, where it 373 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: actually is renamed I should have said, the studio craft movement. 374 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: And this was happening in seven that's when the first 375 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: Society of Arts and Crafts emerged in Boston. But you 376 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: have them popping up and all of the largest urban 377 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: centers in the US. Yeah, and it really arose kind 378 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: of as all of these as all of these ups 379 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: and downs in the arts and crafts movement do it 380 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: really arose as a critique of industrial labor um. They 381 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: were fighting against lowered standards for design that they said 382 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: had been debased by mechanization. They wanted to elevate the 383 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: designer as craftsmen um. And so in these urban centers 384 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: in America you have men really leading the movement. But 385 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: there were a lot of training centers established to teach 386 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: women certain skills, especially immigrant young women um, such as 387 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: Boston's Sunday Evening Girls Club, which was established in as 388 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: just a reading group for immigrant girls. But right there 389 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: at the turn of the century, they founded the very 390 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: American named Paul Revere Pottery, offering the girls in the 391 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: group a chance to earn money. Yeah, and and pottery 392 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: was often taught to women, along with metalwork, textiles, and 393 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: jewelry making. So these are really interesting skills. And to 394 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: think about that happening in the late eighteen hundreds, early 395 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds is pretty fascinating, you know, just because of 396 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: how you still see similar kinds of things happening today. 397 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: Direct outreach of teaching people, maybe in lower income communities, 398 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: how to make handmade goods that they can then sell 399 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: and create supplementary income. Um. And from there, though, you 400 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: do have it trickling into more mainstream outlets. The Metropolitan 401 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,959 Speaker 1: Museum of Art noted how in the early twentieth century 402 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: you have magazines like House Beautiful and Ladies Home Journal 403 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: that really took these ideas of elevating design and craft 404 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: in the home and interiors and popularizing them. I love 405 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: House Beautiful, Yeah, I mean, it's almost too aspirational for 406 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: me at this point. Um, But it is fascinating to 407 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: think of a magazine like Ladies Home Journal a house 408 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: beautiful in the hands of maybe an upper middle class 409 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: woman at the time who unbeknownst to her is reading 410 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: about things that were really seeded by a lot of 411 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: radical socialists. Yeah, and I think, I mean, the socialist 412 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: roots were definitely stronger in England during the rise of 413 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: their arts and crafts movement. In America, those socialist tendencies 414 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: were pretty much limited to the big urban center societies, 415 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: not so much like your your rural Deerfield, Massachusetts societies 416 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: for aults and crafts. Yeah. And it was in the 417 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: sixties and the seventies with that Princeton professor that you mentioned, Caroline, 418 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: where he really uncovered this past movement and the mostly 419 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: male designers of note from the time, and so you 420 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 1: have that resurgence and no big surprise that it would 421 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: happen at that time during so much social upheaval in 422 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: general and so many reactions against massive institutions. Yeah. But 423 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's interesting that a lot of these 424 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: crafting movements kind of circle around activities that are so 425 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: often considered a like a home sphere, a woman's sphere 426 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: activity kind of well, in speaking of which, that's something 427 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: that you see especially happening in the seventies because you're 428 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: now in second wave feminism, and so you see a 429 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: similar reclamation of women's work in artistic movements. Um. And 430 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: this is going back to to that paper we mentioned 431 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: called Fabricating Activism, craft Work, Popular Culture, and Gender by 432 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: Zach z Braditch and Heidi M. Brush Um, which talks 433 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: about craftivism, yes, but also how this gender play so 434 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: much into craft work and fabric culture. And in it 435 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: they talk about how sewing circles, quilting groups and the 436 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: like were organizing bodies of first wave feminism. And so 437 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: then in the seventies, with second wave feminism, you see 438 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: a return to those formerly derided crass because oh, it's 439 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: just women's work. They're just doing that in the home right. 440 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 1: And it is those uh, basically those women's work activities 441 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: that are decried as they're they're not high art. They're 442 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: just making a quilt because they need a quilt. It's 443 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: there's no fine art about it. And you have Lucy 444 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: Lippard who in three wood an essay called Household Images 445 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: in Art in which she says that during the Women's movement, 446 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: women had the confidence to begin quote shedding their shackles 447 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: proudly untying the apron strings and in some cases keeping 448 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: the apron on, flaunting it and turning it into art. Yeah, 449 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: and today you still see those undercurrents of female empowerment, 450 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: whether it's something as simple as the stay at home 451 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: mom who is stitching up her etc. Wares to make 452 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: extra income after the kids go to sleep, or the 453 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: full time d I y revolutionary who is literally trying 454 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: to change the world via crafting and craftis um. Yeah. 455 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: Gene Reala, the founder of Get Crafty, who we mentioned earlier, 456 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: echoes this whole sentiment. She talked to The New York 457 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: Times in two thousand and seven and said, I really 458 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: came to it from more of an indie rock to 459 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: it yourself kind of political place, sort of married with 460 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: making peace with feminism, And that echoes those second way 461 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: feminists back in the seventies like Miriam Shapiro, who said 462 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: I wanted to validate the traditional activities of women, to 463 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: connect myself to the unknown women artists who had made quilts, 464 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: who had done the invisible women's work of civilization. So 465 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: in that regard, crafting is really freaking politically significant. Yeah, 466 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: and it's more, it gets even more interesting today too, 467 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: when we see how more men are being brought into 468 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: this so called women's work, we have gender divide slowly 469 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: being brought down. Just in terms of Etsy, for instance, 470 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: twelve percent of the sellers are men, and there was 471 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: a two thousand and eight post on the Etsy blog 472 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: interviewing male sellers, one of whom says that he often 473 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: surprises people when he talks about his sewing and knitting. 474 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: And there is still admittedly a gender divide in terms 475 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: of quote unquote manly craft like woodwork, leather work, and metallurgy. UM. 476 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: I also have a couple of guy friends who are 477 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: really into screen printing, UM, both hobby and making their income. UM. 478 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: And Harry Sawyers, who's an associate editor at Popular Mechanics 479 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: magazine he helped compile the new book man Craft, said 480 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: that crafts and men definitely go together. It showcases rough 481 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: hewn skills like leather tooling and ax whittling well. And 482 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure that those guys out there who are doing 483 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: woodworking or knitting or screen printing, whatever it is, share 484 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: the same enjoyment of making something on their own, being creative, 485 00:30:54,800 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: being artistic, and taking time outside and away. For UM. 486 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: This fast moving, tech fueled, mobile, digital, you know, just 487 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: all consuming seven kind of pace that we're now living in. 488 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: And there was this inc story that we read about 489 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: this whole Etsy trend and basically like what is going 490 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: to happen to Etsy down the road with its under 491 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: its new CEO, Chad Dickerson, And it interviewed this guy 492 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: who had been working in a great, you know, great 493 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: office job, stable, making good money, but he was just 494 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: he felt so disconnected from the world at large and 495 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: wasn't able to be the kind of creative person that 496 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: he wanted to be. So he ended up starting to 497 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: make leather goods like bags and stuff, and um, he 498 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: started to feel really fulfilled and it took off and 499 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,959 Speaker 1: he was selling a bajillion bags and finally he was like, 500 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: I can't even stay on Etsy anymore because I followed 501 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: my true passion and I'm making these bags and I 502 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: get to be creative, but there's no way that I 503 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: can keep up with consumer demand for my stuff and 504 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: still stay quote unquote handmade on Etsy. Well, didn't you 505 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: mention at the top of the podcast with that etc. 506 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: Survey how a lot of people want to keep their 507 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: stores to a manageable size, which you can't make a 508 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: ton of things if you are one person. Um, and 509 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: you have a lot of people, especially this time of 510 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: year where they are working seven speaking of a seven environment, 511 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: but working all hours just to meet the holiday demand 512 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: because so many people do want handmade. Now it's actually 513 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: taxing the people who are making all of these goods. 514 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: And so that is a big question though for crafting, 515 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: and especially with its intersection with Etsy and how big 516 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: Etsy has become. It's people wondering whether or not that 517 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: original ethos of small and environmentally conscious and anti consumerist, 518 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: whether those philosophies have just been watered down the larger 519 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: that the business itself has gotten. Yeah, a lot of 520 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: people are none too pleased with the direction they see 521 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: Etsy going because CEO Robert Kalin was removed by the 522 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: board recently and so Chad Dickerson took over, and it's 523 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: Etsy has really flourished under him, depending on what your 524 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: definition of flourishes. I mean, Um, there's a lot more 525 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: sellers making a lot more money. And Dickerson really had 526 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: to wrestle with the idea of how do you make 527 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: more money as a website as a business when your 528 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: sellers your most successful sellers grow and then are forced 529 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: off the website, like that guy who who made bags 530 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: and you know, leather goods and stuff like, once you 531 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: hit a certain point on Etsy, you have to go elsewhere. 532 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: And so there they are trying to find a way 533 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: to keep more of their successful sellers, so you know, 534 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: they can keep some of those dollars in how than, 535 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: so a lot of people are calling Etsy like Etsy 536 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: Bay now saying it's getting too big, and so they're 537 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: wrestling now with calling the idea of calling people designers, 538 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: letting them be designers, so you're you don't have to 539 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: be a maker necessarily, you can call yourself a designer, 540 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: but outsourced the production to an actual manufacturer, to which 541 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: some would say, oh, well, why am I going on 542 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: Etsy to buy something that might ultimately be made in 543 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: a sweatshop, even if it's designed by someone in their home. 544 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: So I mean, yeah, it's going to be interesting to 545 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: see the direction that it takes um and also the 546 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 1: fact that the ets style, that kind of vintagy, kitchy, 547 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: crafty look and aesthetic is something that you're seeing more 548 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: and more in any story you walk into any kind 549 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: of urban outfitters forever twenty one. I mean they they 550 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: even what sc even has a direct partnership now with 551 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: west Elm, which is owned by WILLIAMS Sonoma. Yeah. I 552 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,280 Speaker 1: uh well, first of all, I love getting West Elm catalogs, 553 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: and not that I can afford a single freaking thing 554 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: in there, but uh yeah, they do. They feature Etsy 555 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 1: made creations throughout their catalog. You know, they'll have a 556 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: living room set up, but they'll have art on the 557 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: walls or a vase on the table, and they'll have 558 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: a little blurb about the the artist. And for someone 559 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: who wants to make it a full time business, then 560 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: that's probably great. But then again, you just wonder where 561 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: is there going to be a moment of divergence again 562 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:37,479 Speaker 1: between the business path and we're consumerist path and that 563 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: philosophical path, which makes me wonder if in twenty years, 564 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: fifty years, if we'll be going through yet another craft revival. Yeah, 565 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: and it should also be interesting to see kind of 566 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: where this this micro business economy goes, because the bulk 567 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: of sellers on at Sea, for instance, are women, and 568 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: so what was the statu was something like triple number 569 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 1: of women owned businesses documented by the U S Census. 570 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: You know that those are the et SE numbers. They're 571 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: sitting their own hours, they're not having to worry about childcare. 572 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: And but if we're not documenting them well enough and 573 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: they're not having a social safety net like health insurance, 574 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. It should be interesting to see where 575 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: these micro businesses, especially the women owned businesses, because they 576 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: seem to be behind the bulk of them, where they 577 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: will end up, Whether it will go in the direction 578 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 1: of being a solid supplementary income that women can rely on, 579 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: especially you know, think about single moms or just women 580 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,399 Speaker 1: in general who might need some extra cash. Um, it's 581 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: becoming a new asset, a new answer with that giant 582 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: question mark that comes with working versus or plus motherhood 583 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 1: or whether or not it's just going to become so 584 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: large that those opportunities will gradually fade away. So I'll 585 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: send it on an up note though, since it's the holidays, 586 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: support handmade local goods. Yeah, I I for one, I'm 587 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: gonna visit Young Blood Boutique very soon to look for 588 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: a present for my boyfriend's mother, because you know, I mean, 589 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: it's always it just always looks more thoughtful and it 590 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: is more thoughtful. I feel like to take time and 591 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: and look through handmade crafted things. Absolutely, and one of 592 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: my favorite things to do. Um, sorry if you're one 593 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: of the million people that I've given this too, but 594 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: one of my favorite things to do for presence is 595 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: go around to some of the local boutiques in Atlanta 596 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: and get family members local stuff, whether it's locally made 597 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: jams or locally made jewelry. I think that that feels 598 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: more personalized and thoughtful than going to Target. Yeah, yeah, 599 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: all the nothing against Target. Hey, I shop there all 600 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,359 Speaker 1: the time. So I hope that there are some crafters, 601 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: some makers, some artisans listening. We want to hear from you. 602 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,720 Speaker 1: What do you think about the work that you're doing. 603 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: Do you feel compelled by any kind to political philosophy 604 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: or you're just doing it to make a buck? Um? 605 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: Have you thought much about this Etsy conundrum? Let us 606 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: know your thoughts. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is 607 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: where you can write us, and you can also tweet 608 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: us a mom Stuff podcast or message us on Facebook. 609 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 1: And we've got a couple of messages to share with 610 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 1: you when we come right back from a quick break 611 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: and now back to our letters, and we've got a 612 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: couple of letters here from our two part series that 613 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 1: we did on rape and sexual assault in the United States, 614 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: and this one is from Joseph and the subject line 615 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: is men's role in stopping rape. He writes, this has 616 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: been a very important subject to me as my wife 617 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: is a victim of rape and sexual assault. When hearing 618 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: these stories from her, I couldn't help but get angry 619 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,720 Speaker 1: and encourage her to report the incidents to the police. 620 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: She did not, unfortunately, because she did not believe that 621 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: there was enough evidence for anything to be done. They 622 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: had occurred a while back before we met, and the 623 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: perpetrator was someone she knew well. Feeling a bit helpless, 624 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: I turned to the Internet for more information on how 625 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: to get involved in stopping sexual violence and increasing the 626 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: rate of reporting, and my searches I learned more and 627 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 1: more about rape culture and the social constructs around it. 628 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 1: Over time, I've come to notice, even in the effort 629 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 1: of understanding and stopping rape, the concentration is much more 630 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 1: on who gets raped and not on who commits rape. 631 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: Even the vocabulary concentrates on female victims of rape and 632 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: not sexual violence against women. After watching an amazing ted 633 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: talk from Jackson Cat's PhD I came to the belief 634 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: that we should be talking more about men's sexual violence. 635 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: It has to be recognized that this is not a 636 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: woman's issue primarily, but instead it is first a men's issue. 637 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: Why our men's are sexually violent and how do we 638 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: get men to be less violent are much more important 639 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: questions than I if so many women get raped? And 640 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: how do we stop women from getting raped? To end 641 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: this on a positive note, I have found that I'm 642 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: by no means the only guy out there trying to 643 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 1: change my way of thinking and that of my peers. 644 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,399 Speaker 1: A Good Men Project and Men Can Stop Rape are 645 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,240 Speaker 1: just a couple of organizations devoted to giving men guidance 646 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: on engaging other men in these topics and encouraging education 647 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: about consent. I hope you can at least mention our 648 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: two groups on the podcast, since I'm sure you have 649 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: plenty of male and female listeners who want to get involved. 650 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: Love the podcast, and thank you for having the courage 651 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: to speak openly and raise awareness. So thank you, Joseph. 652 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,800 Speaker 1: I have a letter here from Evan. She is a 653 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,840 Speaker 1: sophomore in high school. She says, I really want to 654 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: thank you for your sexual assault series. From these past 655 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: few weeks. It's an issue that's really close to my 656 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: heart and that seems to be horribly misrepresented in general. 657 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: High school is infamous with the constant stories about people 658 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 1: being sent home for wearing leggings to school and whatnot. 659 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,239 Speaker 1: I do have good news though. This past year, I've 660 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: noticed my school really taking initiative to bring rape culture 661 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: and especially slut shaming, out of the dark. I'm a 662 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 1: columnist on my school paper, and last year we ran 663 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 1: a column about Todd Aiken's musings in our first issue. 664 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: This year, in September, we covered the Chicago slut Walk 665 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: on the front page, and my slut shaming column was 666 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: in that issue as well. The reaction was overwhelming, particularly 667 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,759 Speaker 1: this year. We received a ridiculous number of letters from 668 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: people who have experienced slut shaming, as well as boys 669 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: telling us it got them thinking. The goal of a 670 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 1: columnist is always to start a conversation, and so I'm 671 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: thankful to be in an educational environment that's accepting of 672 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: these discussions. I guess I just wanted to share a 673 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,439 Speaker 1: positive experience regarding rape culture in the educational environment because 674 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: we hear so much about schools being unsupportive. Thanks again 675 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: for being so great, and thank you for being so great, 676 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: Evan and participating in a very important discussion. Yeah, and 677 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: hey becoming a student journalist, Thank you and me cool, 678 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: and thanks to everybody who has written in Mom's Stuff 679 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com is where you can send us 680 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: your letters. You can also follow us on Twitter at 681 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: mom Stuff Podcast. You can find us on Facebook. You 682 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,399 Speaker 1: can follow us on Tumbler at stuff mom Never Told 683 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,879 Speaker 1: You dot tumbler dot com, as well as on Instagram 684 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: at stuff Mom Never Told You, And of course you 685 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,399 Speaker 1: can also check us out on YouTube. It's YouTube dot 686 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: com slash stuff Mom Never Told You And don't forget 687 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: folks to subscribe for more on this and thousands of 688 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot com