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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt.

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Speaker 2: Today we're answering your listener questions.

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Speaker 1: It's Monday, which means we are hearing directly from you listeners. Joel,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna hear from a listener who's looking to boost

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Speaker 1: his credit score in order to save more money. It's

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Speaker 1: always a good, nice reason to focus on your credit score.

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Speaker 1: Another listener is moving abroad, not for geographic arbitrage, but

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Speaker 1: it's more like a geographic speculative move, right, because I

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Speaker 1: feel like speculation is the opposite of arbitrage. Yeah, Arbitrage

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Speaker 1: is knowing that you're gonna come out ahead. This listener

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Speaker 1: is like, I'm going to roll the dice and I

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Speaker 1: think it might be better. Another listener is looking to

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Speaker 1: invest his car payment. He thinks it's gonna lead to

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Speaker 1: him saying more money over the long haul. We'll get

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Speaker 1: to that one and a couple others today on the

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Speaker 1: Ask How to Money Listener Questions Episode No doubt, Okay, Matt.

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Speaker 2: Something that I think annoys my kids that I do

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Speaker 2: is in the mornings when they're about to head off

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Speaker 2: to school, I'm like, hey, run back upstairs, turn your

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Speaker 2: lights off. How mut your lights on all day, And

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Speaker 2: to be honest, it probably happens, really did almost never.

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Speaker 1: And then but it happens never you actually saying that

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Speaker 1: or them actually going back up. I say it a lot.

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Speaker 2: I guess when I say it, they go back up.

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Speaker 2: But maybe I just I think I just forget to

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Speaker 2: say it, and so Oldimately what happens. I come back

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Speaker 2: home usually I'm going for a run. So before I

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Speaker 2: go for my run, I chump upstairs and I turn

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Speaker 2: up all the lights myself.

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Speaker 1: I do the exact like you know what I do.

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Speaker 1: I call it shutting down their room, and so like

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Speaker 1: I will tell them as well, just like, hey, make

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Speaker 1: sure you shut down your room. But yeah, a lot

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Speaker 1: of times they don't. But it's that, and it's also

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Speaker 1: the toilets. I hate. Like we've gotten to the point

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Speaker 1: to where you're leaving the seats up. No I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't really care about seats up, seats down, But

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Speaker 1: does it flashing the toy just getting that filth out

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Speaker 1: of there? Man, We like we used to be more

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Speaker 1: of a it fits mellow or if it's yellow, lettut mellow.

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Speaker 1: But I'm at the point now where if it's yellow

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Speaker 1: let's go ahead and flush it. Flush it. No.

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Speaker 2: I think that actually came back to bite me because

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Speaker 2: early on I was a yellow leadut mellow guy taught

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Speaker 2: my kids to be that, and then they didn't flush

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Speaker 2: it properly. You have to reteach them, and I'm like, no, actually, guys,

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Speaker 2: let's just flush them every time.

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Speaker 1: You're like, daddy's portfolio is doing okay, you can go

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Speaker 1: ahead and flow shit. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So speaking of which, not because I'm ridiculously loaded or

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Speaker 2: anything like that, but a Wirecutter article made me think

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Speaker 2: maybe I actually care a little bit less about this,

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Speaker 2: certainly not to the point where I'm annoying my kids

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Speaker 2: over getting them to turn their lights off, because they

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Speaker 2: kind of talked about, well, how much does it actually

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Speaker 2: cost if you leave your lights on?

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Speaker 1: Because it doesn't cost you anything.

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Speaker 2: It costs almost nothing with LED bulbs, right, and it

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Speaker 2: would have been different with the old school incandescence. But

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Speaker 2: they specifically calculated if you leave an LED bulb on,

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Speaker 2: like a sixty wad equivalent for twenty hours, it costs

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Speaker 2: three cents three cents.

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Speaker 1: Would you pick three cents up off the off the

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Speaker 1: sidewalk jowl? You probably would, and would you probably, except

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Speaker 1: that pennies are now valuable, so you're like, oh three pennies. Heck, yes,

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Speaker 1: hello Snawny Bay. Uh yeah, I think I'm with you, man,

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Speaker 1: Like it makes sense because back in the day, back

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Speaker 1: in back when we were you know, back in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: like you said, the incandescence, they used so much more power. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but technology, it's uh, it's evolved. We had that like

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Speaker 1: little dark period. It's what wasn't literally dark. We had

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Speaker 1: that sketchy patch when everyone was rocking the compact fluorescence,

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Speaker 1: the CFLs. Oh yeah, those are terrible, the ones that

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Speaker 1: look like swirl ice cream corms uh huh, and they

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Speaker 1: kind of would vibe like the the quality of light

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Speaker 1: out of those was awful. Oh yeah, not to mention

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Speaker 1: some Yeah, sometimes they'd flicker. But now we've got LED's

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Speaker 1: ad ones were bad too. Well a lot better, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I forgot. Yeah, the early LED's the color was awful,

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Speaker 1: like and they were like you couldn't get them with

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Speaker 1: like the thirty seven hundred kelvin warm light, which is

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Speaker 1: our go to temperature for lights in our house. But yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm with you. I don't want to be known as

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Speaker 1: the guy the parent who's always like barking at his

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Speaker 1: kids to like go to know a few lights. Like

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Speaker 1: if I'm known to my kids in that way, i

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Speaker 1: feel like I've failed. But if there's other things that

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Speaker 1: I'm also saying to them, because there's it's a beautiful life,

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Speaker 1: and there are wonderful things that we like to talk

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Speaker 1: about and things that we're excited about. In addition to that,

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Speaker 1: if I'm also like, hey, we like there are other

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Speaker 1: lessons they teach them. If I'm like, hey, we're called

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Speaker 1: to be good stewards of our resources. Hey, we're trying

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Speaker 1: to live intentionally. We're trying to live in such a

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Speaker 1: way that shows that we are like proactively living our life,

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Speaker 1: not because we're like being lazy. Right, Like there's a

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Speaker 1: big difference in my book between doing something just because

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Speaker 1: we can versus oh it doesn't cost hardly anything at all,

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Speaker 1: and maybe oh maybe we like leaving the laight on,

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Speaker 1: Like there are I think there's like two or three

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Speaker 1: lights now in our house that we like to leave on,

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Speaker 1: like small little lamps, really tiny LEDs. Like there's a

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Speaker 1: little lamp that we keep in the kitchen now, so

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Speaker 1: that there's always like this little beacon. Even when the

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Speaker 1: lights are off, it's kind of like, okay, we can

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Speaker 1: find you away. It's sort of like a night light essentially.

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Speaker 1: But we always leave that on. Like the same thing

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Speaker 1: in the playroom, we always leave a lamp on in there.

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Speaker 1: Take out this like pink Himalayan salt lamp that she

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Speaker 1: got a goodwill what she was like, you know, I've

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Speaker 1: always won in one of those salt lamps, and now

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Speaker 1: we keep that going in our four yeer as well.

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Speaker 1: And I'm all for that because that's intentional. There's zero

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Speaker 1: part of me that thinks, oh my gosh, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe her. These are running forget twenty hours a day, Joel,

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Speaker 1: these are running twenty four hours they ever turn them off.

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Speaker 1: There is no part of me that worries about that,

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Speaker 1: because there's something that we're trying to achieve by leaving

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Speaker 1: those on, as opposed to kids forgetting to turn off

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Speaker 1: their lights. Doesn't all you're achieving there is just like irresponsibility.

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Speaker 2: Emily and I were on her post in her walk

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Speaker 2: last night and she was telling me that her she's

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Speaker 2: two weeks out of therapy office and her boss was like, hey,

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Speaker 2: whoever left last night, you didn't turn all the lights out,

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Speaker 2: and she was like, well, that was me, But sometimes

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Speaker 2: I get scared, like when all the lights are off

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Speaker 2: and I'm walking to my car in the damp parking,

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Speaker 2: dark park lot alone, and so.

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Speaker 1: She's like, maybe you could get a not so sketchy office.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, well, just cent her this article

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Speaker 2: and tell her that it costs her essentially nothing to

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Speaker 2: run that light as long as it's an LED one.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's pretty funny, helpful.

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Speaker 2: But I will probably still out of habit be the

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Speaker 2: guy who runs upstairs to flip all the lights off,

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Speaker 2: but I probably I don't think I will be as

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Speaker 2: annoyed that they don't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah or yeah, maybe even taking steps to kind of

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Speaker 1: identify why it is that we do this. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes when kids get old enough, they can appreciate the

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Speaker 1: why behind the action, not just being like, oh, dud

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Speaker 1: always wants us to do this. Another note the fact

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Speaker 1: that one of our kids, a couple of our kids,

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Speaker 1: one in particular, loves to leave her bathroom fans running

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Speaker 1: like the exhaust fan. Oh I don't like that, and

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Speaker 1: those actually use significantly more energy than LED's. I want

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Speaker 1: to say, like three to five times more power than

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Speaker 1: an LED. And in her case, there are two bathroom fans.

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Speaker 1: There's one over like over the toilet and one in

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Speaker 1: the shower, and sometimes you'll I'm both running and so

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Speaker 1: that's like six x to ten x the cost of

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Speaker 1: one bulb. And I don't know, there's something about that.

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Speaker 1: You're in the winter, you're sucking out all the heat. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's a double it's a double whammie, right, And.

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Speaker 2: That's the way I think of it, is like, oh,

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Speaker 2: if I'm running the heat and that's going the.

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Speaker 1: Heat, the heat, you're sucking that out. In the summer,

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Speaker 1: it's one thing when you're dealing with moisture, humidity and

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Speaker 1: moisture levels in the bathroom. But in the winter, dude,

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Speaker 1: you want to trap that moisture. Like I want to

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Speaker 1: breathe that easy to breathe forty five percent humidity air,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to that dry finger skin cracking thirty percent humidity.

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Speaker 1: I have dry skin in the winter.

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Speaker 2: You do you actually like keep some stuff here that

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Speaker 2: you rub on your hands all the time. Cocoa butter, yeah,

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Speaker 2: coco Okay.

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Speaker 1: I like to sit there and while I'm reading I'll

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Speaker 1: like rub it on my hands.

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Speaker 2: Well, just I think that's just a good PSA for

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Speaker 2: all the parents out there. You know, if your kids

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Speaker 2: are not good about turning their lights off, not that

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Speaker 2: big of a deal. Yeah, maybe we can let it go. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: all right, let's mention the beer we're having on this episode.

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Speaker 2: This is honestly the name of the beer. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to say it, but I will just because that

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Speaker 2: is what we do here. It's called Safe Sex Ride.

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Speaker 2: It's my incendiary Brewing.

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Speaker 1: Yep. Give an odd name this one, yep, but this

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Speaker 1: is a nice Brandon is the one who donated this one. No,

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Speaker 1: we do appreciate the beer. Having to say the name

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Speaker 1: right now, it's an a And I'm actually looking forward

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Speaker 1: to talking about this one same at the end of

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Speaker 1: the show.

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Speaker 2: Because in a beer's I've not been super impressed with

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Speaker 2: the ones I've had up until this point, but they're

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Speaker 2: getting better and there are more breweries making good ones apparently,

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Speaker 2: So looking forward to tasting this one given our thoughts later.

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Speaker 2: And if you have a money question, we'd love to

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Speaker 2: hear from you. Just go to have to money dot

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Speaker 2: com slash ask submit your question there. Really just in

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Speaker 2: recording that question as a voice memo on the app

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Speaker 2: on your phone, emailing it over to us. Let's take

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Speaker 2: a question Matt specifically about improving your credit.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Joel and Matt. This is filled from an appolis.

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Speaker 3: This isn't exactly a first money here kind of question,

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Speaker 3: but I thought i'd bring it into this discussion. My

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Speaker 3: question is which assets improve your credit and help save money.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking specifically of making your insurance cheaper or making

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Speaker 3: future borrowing rates lower, as you would see with a

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Speaker 3: better credit score, for example. I look forward to your answer.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: He's looking forward to your answer yours specifically, Joel, assuming

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Speaker 1: you provide an answer well to by For Phil, I've

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Speaker 1: just taken a vow of silence my career to for

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Speaker 1: the rest of the episode. Phil. First of all, I

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Speaker 1: love that you're talking about credit because it is an

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Speaker 1: important part of a healthy, healthy personal finance money life.

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Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, though, you asked about which assets are going

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Speaker 1: to help improve your credit, But the truth is it

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Speaker 1: is not your assets that improve your score. So for instance,

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Speaker 1: owning a nice car free and clear that is not

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Speaker 1: contributing to your FICO score. The credit your is. They

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Speaker 1: don't care if you own, let's say, a fancy rolex,

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Speaker 1: that would be considered an asset too, right that you

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Speaker 1: pay cash for. It would be different if you're making

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Speaker 1: payments on that rolex, though, that.

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Speaker 2: Would be an appreciating asset too, because when you actually

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Speaker 2: look at the data, it seems like rolex I think

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Speaker 2: rolexes do better than the S and P five hundred

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Speaker 2: over time, No way, I think.

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Speaker 1: So that's a great excuse for me to maybe get

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Speaker 1: a Fansy watch on though I don't think I could

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Speaker 1: afford a Rolex. It would have to be my craft

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Speaker 1: beer equivalent like ten x or a hundred x y.

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Speaker 1: But bottom line, like just having loads of cash on hand,

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Speaker 1: including assets, won't help improve your score. The system, the

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Speaker 1: credit scoring system, it only rewards certain kinds of behavior

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Speaker 1: that it wants to see, and yeah, not the kinds

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Speaker 1: of behavior that you typically like to see in yourself

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Speaker 1: and some of the different achievements that you're able to reach.

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Speaker 2: And you might assume right to your credit score is

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Speaker 2: at least somewhat influenced by just your general money behavior,

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Speaker 2: and it's not in a lot of It's like having

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Speaker 2: a massive four oh one k balance for interest, for example,

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Speaker 2: you might think, oh, if I've got a million dollars

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Speaker 2: in my four oh one k, that's probably gonna have

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Speaker 2: some sort of impact on my credit score because I'm

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Speaker 2: crushing it like I've got a lot of money invested.

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Speaker 1: For my future.

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Speaker 2: But no, it's quite possible actually to be a millionaire

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Speaker 2: and have poor credit. They just don't necessarily go hand

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Speaker 2: in hand. And those good habits that you have in

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Speaker 2: certain parts of your personal finance life, they just don't

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Speaker 2: translate to credit score supremacy, to being in the eight

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Speaker 2: hundreds or anything like that. And so it's actually your

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Speaker 2: liabilities that help improve your credit score, which shocks a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of people. Granted that liability or the loan

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Speaker 2: that you've taken on could be used to purchase an

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Speaker 2: asset right like a house or a car. Your credit

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Speaker 2: card usage as well, which can be used to pay

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Speaker 2: for basically anything under the sun. That's an important factor too.

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Speaker 2: But really what the credit bureaus are looking at is

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Speaker 2: how are you handling the credit that you have been given,

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Speaker 2: that you've taken out, and actually having taken out debts

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Speaker 2: is really a big part of what makes them think

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Speaker 2: that you might be good at handling.

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Speaker 1: Future debts exactly. Yeah, And essentially what that means is

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Speaker 1: having access to like loads of credit, which then increases

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Speaker 1: as you handle credit well over time, but then using

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Speaker 1: very little of that available credit. Like that is what

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Speaker 1: makes you look trustworthy paying your you know, obviously paying

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Speaker 1: your bills on time and in full, which ensures that

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Speaker 1: the bureaus get to see you as a responsible borrower.

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Speaker 1: In addition to that, it's about having a good credit mix,

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Speaker 1: and so that means having revolving credit lines, so credit cards,

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Speaker 1: even a helock, but also installment loans as well, so

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Speaker 1: like car loans, mortgage, even student loans. But again, like

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Speaker 1: a lot a lot of folks will talk there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of shade, and I mean we're kind of talking

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Speaker 1: about it like it's silly as well, because it kind

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Speaker 1: of is right, But I guess I want to play

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Speaker 1: Devil's advocate a little bit. And if you think about

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Speaker 1: it from the perspective and from the point of view

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Speaker 1: of the actual lender, like it kind of makes sense, right,

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Speaker 1: Like what you're looking for is the specific behavior that

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Speaker 1: you want to see, which is what for them to

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Speaker 1: be able to pay back the money that they have

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Speaker 1: borrowed from you, Like you want a good paybacker, Like

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Speaker 1: you don't really care if they're a good borrower, you

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Speaker 1: don't really, I'm sorry, a good earner you don't as

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Speaker 1: you don't care as much if they're a good investor, yeah, investor,

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Speaker 1: Like you just want to know that they will give

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Speaker 1: back the money that they've borrowed from you. Like it

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Speaker 1: kind of makes me think about other.

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Speaker 2: And the best way to predict that is, did they

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Speaker 2: do that last time to the other lenders that they've

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Speaker 2: borrowed money from in the past, Yeah, exactly, Like they're related,

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Speaker 2: but they're not exactly the same. Like it makes me

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Speaker 2: think about the kind of qualities that might make somebody

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Speaker 2: like a good employee, like or if you are great

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Speaker 2: at your job, right, like, oh man, you've gotten a

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Speaker 2: ton of promotions. Oh, you're climbing the ranks. You're really

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Speaker 2: getting after it. You got the bonus, Oh he shows

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Speaker 2: up on time. Well that all of these are great

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Speaker 2: qualities if you are a worker, but it doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: mean like so then on the other option or the

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Speaker 2: other thing I'm thinking about are like relationships. Let's say

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Speaker 2: let's say you're in the dating scene, just been a

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Speaker 2: while now, Joel, since you've been in the dating scene,

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Speaker 2: so like, stretch your imagination a little bit here. But

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Speaker 2: all of those qualities don't directly translate to being a

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Speaker 2: good date, or to being a good boyfriend, or being

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Speaker 2: a good partner or a good spouse. There are some

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Speaker 2: things that that do relate, like showing up on time. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that tells you something. You know, if you show up

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Speaker 2: to your dates on time. Oh great, he shows up

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Speaker 2: to work on time, shows up to his dates on time,

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Speaker 2: there's something good there.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't be automatically well groomed, right, that's helpful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: wear pants. I still try to do that. I'm not anymore.

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Speaker 1: I just date my wife now. But yeah, but it

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Speaker 1: doesn't automatically mean that just because you're an all star

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Speaker 1: in one sector of life, that you're also going to

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Speaker 1: be just totally rocking it in this other area. And

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Speaker 1: I think the same is true when it comes to money.

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Speaker 1: They're related, but it doesn't automatically translate to the fact that, oh,

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Speaker 1: because he's killing it as far as what he's earning,

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Speaker 1: that means he's going to be a killer borrower. Not

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Speaker 1: necessarily that's.

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Speaker 2: True, because it's like Actually, when when you look at

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Speaker 2: statistics about people who are living paycheck to paycheck to

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Speaker 2: paycheck making six figures, we still see a lot of

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Speaker 2: people living on the financial precipice, even when they're higher

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Speaker 2: income earners. And I think that is there's just poor

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Speaker 2: money management at all levels of income, right, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we know that's true, and it's easier to manage money

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Speaker 2: better when you have a higher income. Still that doesn't

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Speaker 2: always translate either. And two, I think that's why some

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Speaker 2: people find that their score actually ends up dropping after

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Speaker 2: they pay off a loan, Matt, Because you were just

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Speaker 2: kind of talking about what makes a good credit score. Well,

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Speaker 2: you know, getting rid of your mortgage is this awesome

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Speaker 2: personal finance feet But you can actually see your score

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Speaker 2: decline for a little while, yeah, after doing that, And

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Speaker 2: so people will ask us about that because of the

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Speaker 2: nuances of the credit score, Hey, well should I be

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Speaker 2: wary about paying off this loan that I have? And

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Speaker 2: the truth is so much depends on your specific situation.

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Speaker 2: You typically, though, don't want to let the credit score

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Speaker 2: tail wag the dog of your paying off debt behavior.

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Speaker 2: And then other people might say, well, this probably means

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Speaker 2: that I should go take on more debt in order

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Speaker 2: to increase my credit score, because man Joel said credit

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Speaker 2: scores are important, and part of having good credit score

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Speaker 2: is having actual debt in my name. But no, that's

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Speaker 2: not wise either, and that's doing this similar thing on

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Speaker 2: the flip side. So having some credit using it wisely

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Speaker 2: in order to build your score up is a good thing.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the reasons that we talk about credit

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Speaker 2: cards as being a good method of payment. They're helping

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Speaker 2: build your credit score at the same time, but you

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Speaker 2: have to use them effectively and you follow the golden

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Speaker 2: rules of plastic that we talk about here on the show.

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Speaker 2: But don't go taking on new debts for the sole

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Speaker 2: purpose of raising your score. That would be I think

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Speaker 2: self defeating and could lead to some worse outcomes exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I will say one of the outcomes that he mentioned,

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Speaker 1: or one of the goals, for instance, getting your insurance

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Speaker 1: rates down. I think that's one of the best reasons

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Speaker 1: for me to want to pay attention to my credit

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Speaker 1: score right now, because like that's something that we all

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Speaker 1: pay you know, it's not all it's not every month

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Speaker 1: or every year that we're looking to take out a

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Speaker 1: new massive loan where our interest rate might be might

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Speaker 1: be impacted by our credit score, but insurance rates. Man,

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Speaker 1: that's something that we've all seen.

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Speaker 2: You're right, there's sometimes it's more impactful, right, having the

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Speaker 2: high credit score than others. And it's like, especially you

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Speaker 2: want to make sure you're dialed in on that if

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Speaker 2: you're taking out a car loan or a home loan.

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Speaker 2: If you listening to how to Money, we don't want

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Speaker 2: you to taking it out of a car loan, but

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Speaker 2: if you're taking out one of those loans, like you

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Speaker 2: want to pay special attention. But then even on a

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Speaker 2: year where you're like or multiple years, we're like, I'm

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Speaker 2: not buying anything.

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Speaker 1: I don't need to pay attention to it. It still

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Speaker 1: impacts your life. It's a perennial sort of thing that

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Speaker 1: we need to pay attention to, which it kind of

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Speaker 1: gets to the He also mentioned too, how like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this isn't quite like a first money gear question, and

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Speaker 1: and you're right, because it's not the first thing you

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Speaker 1: need to pay attention to, but it is something that

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Speaker 1: you do need to pay attention to kind of regularly,

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Speaker 1: like whether you are in your like the first money gear,

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Speaker 1: or if you're in money Gear seven, because it's just

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Speaker 1: like it's just good practice to make sure that you

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Speaker 1: have a solid credit score, whether it's because of the fact,

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Speaker 1: like Joel said, oh, this is where we're applying for

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Speaker 1: mortgages and we want to make sure that we get

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Speaker 1: the best rate possible, or if you're just way past

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Speaker 1: that and you've got a house full of teenage drivers, Well,

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Speaker 1: credit scores have an impact on insurance rates as well,

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Speaker 1: and so that's certainly something I'm gonna be I'm looking

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Speaker 1: ahead a little bit here, Joel, and it's something that's

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Speaker 1: one of those cost centers as I look into the

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Speaker 1: future that I'm a little afraid of, and I'm certainly

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Speaker 1: going to be looking at every opportunity to reduce that cost.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking, this is just random that Weimo is actually

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Speaker 2: going to be the cheapest way to get my kids

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Speaker 2: around if I'm not driving them, just because when dude,

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Speaker 2: when you hear how expensive is it to add kids

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Speaker 2: onto your insurance policy, I'm like, I don't know, maybe Waimo,

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Speaker 2: especially at that point down down the road, maybe that's

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Speaker 2: going to be like a slam dunk decision.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny that you said that because we were

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Speaker 1: recently talking about I might be helping doing some volunteering

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Speaker 1: that in occasional circumstances would require me to be somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: Like we're one car family, right, and so we're like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 1: is this volunteer thing that you're doing going to be

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Speaker 1: what causes us to get a second vehicle? Which is

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Speaker 1: like obviously a lot of money upfront, but then in

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Speaker 1: addition to that the cost of insurance. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know what it's gonna it's so infrequent that this

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Speaker 1: is totally an instance where I could just order up

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Speaker 1: an uber a lift or have you ridden in Aweimo,

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Speaker 1: I haven't yet. I can't wait. I've seen all the

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Speaker 1: time now yeah, yeah, yeah, but there would be a

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Speaker 1: perfect instance for me to just take away MO, get there,

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Speaker 1: do what I need to do, and then y'all show

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Speaker 1: up later and then we get to ride home together.

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Speaker 1: Like so much more affordable than saying, oh, now we

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Speaker 1: have to finally get a second.

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Speaker 2: Vehicle, and especially with kids, you just I would trust

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Speaker 2: a way more AWAYMO, more than I would trust a

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Speaker 2: lift or uber.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that's how a lot of there they've got

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Speaker 1: the teen accounts now, But yeah, there's something about getting

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Speaker 1: in a clean driver list vehicle that's programmed and is

430
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 1: proven to get into fewer RECs than a human uh

431
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 1: gig operated vehicles. But but yeah, I'll still be weird

432
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 1: the first time first time I get in one. But Phil,

433
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 1: we hope that gets you put in the right direction,

434
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,120
Speaker 1: that you are able to build your wealth, at least

435
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 1: in part because you've got a better credit score.

436
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 2: All right, Matt, we got more to get to on

437
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 2: this episode. We're actually going to have someone question our

438
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 2: belief on paying cash for cars. This listener disagrees. We'll

439
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,879
Speaker 2: get to that talk about what to do after maxing

440
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 2: out of roth Iray, Matt and more right after this.

441
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 1: All right, buddy, we are back from the break. Let's

442
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 1: take a question from a listener who's looking to move abroad,

443
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,400
Speaker 1: but he is still looking to make the smart financial move.

444
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,239
Speaker 4: Hey, Matt and Joel, this is Michael from Chicago. I've

445
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 4: got a quick question for you. So I've optimized my

446
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,920
Speaker 4: financial situation pretty much like tight as a drum for

447
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 4: the US system obviously because that's where I live. So

448
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 4: you know, HSA's roth Ira workplace four or three b's

449
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 4: you know, Index.

450
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 1: Funds all that stuff. My wife and I are still.

451
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 4: Working for the moment, but we're financially independent at this point.

452
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 4: But I also recently secured my Italian citizenship through the

453
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 4: citizenship by Dissent process, which is incredibly exciting. I worked

454
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 4: on it for years, and we're planning to move to

455
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 4: Italy in late twenty twenty six or early twenty twenty seven.

456
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 4: So now my whole financial life that I've optimized so

457
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 4: perfectly for the US is about to run up against

458
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 4: a system that that's almost the exact opposite of the US.

459
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 4: That there's no version of the standard deduction in Italy.

460
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 4: There's no recognition of US hsas or iras as tax advantaged.

461
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 4: Italy treats IRA withdrawals, brokerage and HSA dividends as ordinary income.

462
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 4: They tax realized capital gains at a flat rate that's

463
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 4: fairly high. It's like almost kind of a mere opposite

464
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 4: of the US and treats everything from the US as

465
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 4: a foreign asset. We're still really excited to make the

466
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 4: move because, as you guys know, life isn't all about taxes,

467
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,120
Speaker 4: and we think the quality of life is higher over there.

468
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,680
Speaker 4: But obviously I'm going to need a lot of help

469
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 4: to make sense of all of this. I know there

470
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 4: are a lot of places to get financial advice, and

471
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 4: you've referenced many of them over the years, you know, Nectarine, Domain,

472
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 4: Money Advice Only, Network, Facet, etc. But I'm curious if

473
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 4: you guys have recommendations for someone in my situation who

474
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 4: needs help negotiating a financial life across two countries and

475
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 4: will lead to file taxes in both those countries going forward.

476
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 4: I'm not even sure what kind of person I'm looking for.

477
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 4: Do I need a tax lawyer or some kind of

478
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 4: super CFP, all of the above.

479
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: Thanks for your help. So you can tell that Michael

480
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 1: listens to the show because he said, like, y'all talk

481
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: about life, isn't just about money. Like That's when I

482
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: was like, oh, Michael knows what's up. He listens to

483
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: the show. He understands the purpose of money. I love it.

484
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 2: I mean he also highlighted a bunch of different all

485
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 2: the awesome ways crushing it.

486
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean all that and.

487
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 2: All the services that we normally talk about, like, oh,

488
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: these are better than Yeah, a lot of the other

489
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 2: places you could turn for financial advice.

490
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: That's true.

491
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 2: So yeah, regular listener. It sounds like for sure, and

492
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 2: it sounds like he is financially independent. He is crushing it,

493
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: but he might not be financially independent for long. And

494
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 2: the truth is, financial independent can change, right, Like you

495
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 2: can become financially independent, you can lose it the market.

496
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,120
Speaker 1: Giveth in the market can taketh away. That's true, that's

497
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,479
Speaker 1: part of it. And then the other thing is your choices,

498
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: right like the things you ought to do with your

499
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: life can undermine your ability to be completely financially independent.

500
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean though, like he said, like, it doesn't

501
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: mean that, we don't think that's how he should proceed.

502
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: Just because you achieve financial independence. Part of the joy

503
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: and benefit of it is utilizing that independence, even if

504
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: it makes you a little bit less ultimately financially independent,

505
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: as long as it's going to produce a lot of joy.

506
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, it sounds like he's going to.

507
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 2: Be paying more every month to live in Italy. His

508
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 2: taxes are likely going to increase.

509
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 1: City He's going to save money, Joel. He's going to

510
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: sell his hummer that he has here Stateside and he's

511
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: going to drive a little Vespa around a little city.

512
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 1: What's it called City Hopper. What's it on Mario Kart

513
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: the little scooter? I don't remember what it's called there.

514
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: I'll love being toadstool on the little Vespa well in

515
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: City Tripper, City Tripper.

516
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 2: If you didn't, that would be helpful, but it's probably

517
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 2: not to make up for an offset. Think there's taxpurt Yeah, yeah,

518
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: and you know, moving to another country, though, is about

519
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 2: so much more than just your money. There's uh, there's

520
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 2: a reason, Matt. You remember not too long ago, I

521
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 2: had somebody on an interview episode talking about moving to

522
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico for tax purposes. There's a reason neither you

523
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 2: or I have actually done that. I thought it was

524
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 2: a really interesting topic to cover, and I wanted that

525
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: to be kind of food for thought because I think

526
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 2: it could prompt so many other things in your mind

527
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 2: about like, oh cool, if that's outside of the box,

528
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 2: what what else outside of the box? Am I maybe

529
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: not considering in my life? And I haven't heard from

530
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,479
Speaker 2: any how to money listeners who have made the move

531
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 2: to Puerto Rico either.

532
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 1: I have seen those emails. Yeah, but again, I.

533
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 2: Mean it's one of those things that I could see

534
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 2: some people being like that sounds perfect for me and

535
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: for other people being like no way, not interested.

536
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, to each their own though, Yeah, and for that reason,

537
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: you know, I've decided like our family's going to stay

538
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: here because of the different opportunities honestly that are available

539
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: family friends. But he and I guess one of the

540
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: things before we actually answer you a question too, Michael,

541
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: like I even just worn again, like it sounds like

542
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: I know you are excited, because because he even says so,

543
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: He's just like, I've been really excited. I've been working

544
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: on this. It sounds like this is a goal of

545
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: his that he has had for a while. That the

546
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: whole process sounds like it's taken taking a little bit

547
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: of time.

548
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: In that citizenship process he mentioned, sounds interesting just how

549
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: basically if your family of origin is from that country,

550
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 2: like yeah, well you can go through the process to

551
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: get citizenship.

552
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: Yourself, which of course got me interested. I was like,

553
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm half Korean. You get in that

554
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: South Korean city. I looked it up. Actually, if my

555
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: dad was a Korean citizen, I would be able to,

556
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: but because it was my mom, it's a patriarchal society, okay.

557
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: Or I also wondered too, if it was because of

558
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: the Korean War and all the gis that came over

559
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: and met their wives, which is what happened in my

560
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: family's situation. Regardless, that's not what I wanted to get to,

561
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: but I want to take it to. It was the

562
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: fact that he said, I know he's excited, and Michael,

563
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to rain on your parade, but man,

564
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: I am a bit nervous for you. And you didn't

565
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 1: mention that you've been over there visiting. You didn't mention

566
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: that this is I don't know. I'm sure there are

567
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: other steps that you have taken to do performing your

568
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 1: due diligence, but I would just be a bit wary

569
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: of pulling the ripcord and heading over there. Definitely don't

570
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: burn bridges, right so, like whether that's from a work standpoint.

571
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: You're in Chicago. You didn't say whether or not you're

572
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: a homeowner, but I would be hesitant to sell my

573
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: home right away because let's say you get over there.

574
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: You say you think the quality of life over there

575
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: is better, but maybe you're like, you know what, I

576
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 1: can make negronies back at home. I miss my friends,

577
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: I miss you know. Whatever it is about the States

578
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: or Chicago maybe that you're missing, and then if it's

579
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: your home, like you have the opportunity to kind of

580
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: move back as opposed to having ripped up the roots

581
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 1: and try to transplant yourself. On top of that, you're

582
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: also talking about being like you are currently working, but

583
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: then you're going to go over there and not work.

584
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: These are two significant major life changes that combined, Like

585
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: these things compounded together make me a bit worried as

586
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: opposed to saying, Okay, let's like ease into it over there,

587
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: Let's I'll continue to work. Maybe I can maintain my

588
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, my gig state side. There are other considerations

589
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: that I would do before going like whole hog. And

590
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure that Michael is being prudent and wise about it,

591
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,199
Speaker 1: but I just wanted to say that before we got

592
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: to some of his specifics, and maybe you could run

593
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: a place for three to six months and give it

594
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: really long time instead of just like man once every

595
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: summer when we go for a week. It's great because

596
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: it's a very different reality to living in a place.

597
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: Even if it sounds great and you've got these like

598
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: familial roots and stuff like that, like it might not

599
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: be all you imagined it to be once you're I

600
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: hope it is for him week after week after week exactly.

601
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 1: I hope it's everything you thought was going to be

602
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: and more. Yeah, but it might not be. That's that's

603
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: what I'm concerned about. Yeah, because like that gelato is delicious,

604
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,719
Speaker 1: but you also he's put on the palands so much

605
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: of it you can eat right, and you're not going

606
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 1: to ruin your life financially by making this move though,

607
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: because of your mindset, because of how much you care

608
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: about financial independence. But you do have to be prepared,

609
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: as somebody who is a financial optimizer, for the downsides

610
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: of the move. From a monetary perspective, it's tough to

611
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: pay ordinary income tax right on withdrawals from accounts that

612
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: you thought would be completely or at least partially sheltered

613
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: from tax man. Matt.

614
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about that HSA in particular, the triple tax advantage,

615
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: and it's just gone poof in smoke when you move

616
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: to when you moved to Italy, and so instead of

617
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: a triple tax advantage is like a triple slap in

618
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 2: the face.

619
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: It is. That's what it feels like, what it's going

620
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: to feel like, because like it was this thing that

621
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: was available to you, and now you have it taken

622
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: him back like three times.

623
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: Again, not a reason not to go, but still something

624
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: to keep in mind as someone who's going to probably

625
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 2: feel the pain more than a lot of others would,

626
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: as someone who's really dedicated his life to being great

627
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: with his money.

628
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah, I think you'll obviously want to establish some

629
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: local bank accounts there, some Italian bank accounts to pay rent,

630
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: just your different expenses. But similar to maybe what I

631
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: wanted you to think about as far as easing over there,

632
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: I think you also likely don't want to move all

633
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: of your money over all at once and just completely

634
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: shut down all of your state side US accounts either.

635
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: I think keeping most of your assets in the accounts

636
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: that they're currently in is typically the best way to

637
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: proceed for tracking purposes. But another quick tip too, as

638
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: you're moving money internationally, whys is often the best low

639
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: cost service, so certainly look into that if you haven't already.

640
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, great rates make it they make it easy, and

641
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 2: you know why you're gonna need money locally, transferring it

642
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 2: all in one fell swoop, kind of like you're talking

643
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: about math, that's often more harmful than helpful from a

644
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 2: tax and from a reporting perspective, and so, Michael, I'm

645
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 2: sure you've encountered this too, but reporting is crucial Italy,

646
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: for instance, they want to know everything about you, right.

647
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: They want full transparency on all your assets. They're going

648
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 2: to be up in your grill, even if the assets

649
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: that you hold your state side.

650
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 5: Right.

651
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 2: They want to know all about your bank, your retirement,

652
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: your real estate assets. You'll be filing tax returns in

653
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 2: both countries the way, but because of tax treaties, you're

654
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: gonna owe most, if not all, of your tax in Italy,

655
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 2: not in the United States. But still it's important to know.

656
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they're gonna it's a it's it's like a

657
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: colonoscopy for your finances. That's what Italy is going to require.

658
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 2: They want it down a dirty.

659
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: Why does it have to be dirty? Aren't they more

660
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: notoriously dirty? Matt? Are they? Uh? To your You're asking

661
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: about like.

662
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: Who you're supposed to be when you get one. By

663
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: the way, I haven't had one yet.

664
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,479
Speaker 1: I haven't either. I thought it used to be when

665
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: you're forty, But I went to UH when I I

666
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: went and got a physical, when I was forty and

667
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: I kind of mentioned it, like, you know, I got

668
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: to do this, and he's like, Oh, you actually don't

669
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: have to do that. Oh really, are you sure. I

670
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: didn't want to make it sound like kind of rogue doctor,

671
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: didn't want to make it seem like I was begging

672
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: for one. But I'm like, oh, I mean if the

673
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: guidance is now different, then I'm totally down with that.

674
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: Is there a pill I can take it? Uh? But

675
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: he's asking about getting professional help. And because of the

676
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: complex nature of how assets and income are taxed over there,

677
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: and of course just at the higher rate that you're

678
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: going to be experiencing it, you're going to want to

679
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: hire that professional help. And the most important person to

680
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: look for would be a cross border CPA who can

681
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: help you to think about where to keep funds and

682
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: how who can also help you to think through different

683
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: withdrawal strategies when you need to tap those accounts as well.

684
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: They can help you to figure out where it is

685
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: that you should keep your funds in order to not

686
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: tax of aid but sidestep certain taxes that might catch

687
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: many expats unaware. And so that's something specific to being international,

688
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: but and even by the way, you.

689
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: Might want to pull some money out of certain accounts

690
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: before you migrate over to Italy. Right, they might say,

691
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: actually that HSA, if you've got the receipts, you should.

692
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: Tap some of that money. Now.

693
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: True, you know, like there's like things maybe you haven't

694
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 2: thought about yet that across border CPA could really push

695
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: you towards.

696
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would normally go ahead and pull those funds

697
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: because you don't need them. But if you're going to

698
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: get taxed at a much lower rate on those funds

699
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: because they're qualified medical expenses, go ahead and take advantage

700
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: of that tax advantage. You can side step that triple

701
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: slap and take that cash over, which sounds like a

702
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: wrestling move. Triple slap probably is from somebody, it probably is.

703
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: But just make sure that you hire a financial expert

704
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: who's got some significant expertise in this area, but who

705
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: also has transparent pricing. I think there's a chance you're

706
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: going to need a local Italian tax professional as well,

707
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: but that's something that I think you can figure out

708
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: once you get there, asking around, as you start to

709
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: figure out the ins and outs of the Italian system

710
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: and the significantly higher taxes over there. No doubt Michael.

711
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 2: Best of luck, though, and we hope that your Italian

712
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: excursion is the best thing ever. Yep, all right, let's

713
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: get to our next question. This one is specifically about

714
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: maxing out one awesome tax advantaged account. What do you

715
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: do next?

716
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 5: Hi there, my name is Stephanie. I'm located in the

717
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 5: Bay Area. I'll get straight to it. I've maxed on

718
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 5: my ROUGH for the past couple of years, first time

719
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 5: I've been able to do that. I have a small

720
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 5: amount invested in my four one K since my job

721
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 5: to not match, and I've never had a job that matched,

722
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 5: so it didn't really feel like that was much of

723
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 5: a benefit. I have auto payment that.

724
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 6: Total in about three hundred dollars a month into index funds.

725
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 6: I also have about like ten k or so invested

726
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 6: in CDs at the moment, but I do have about

727
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 6: forty thousand in my high old savings account. I do

728
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 6: know that that's a large chunk to have there, but

729
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 6: I am kind of scared of investing it, even though

730
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 6: it's index funds. I would love to own a house

731
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 6: in the future, but I don't have any specific plans

732
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 6: at the moment, so it's not like I need to

733
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 6: necessarily keep a good chunk available. I'm thirty years old,

734
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 6: about to be and I make eighty k annually before taxes.

735
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 6: Of course, I think a big thing I need to

736
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 6: do is, you know, get a better job in the future,

737
00:33:59,280 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 6: better paying job.

738
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 5: But you know that's the work in progress. I primarily

739
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 5: am just kind of wondering what you would recommend I

740
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 5: do with those savings. Also, if there's anything else that

741
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 5: I should be preparing for, you know, just any any

742
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 5: guidance would be helpful. Thank you, all.

743
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: Right, Sephanie, We're here to bring the guidance. And I

744
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: want to go back to the fact that you've been

745
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 1: maxing out your did you say for the last couple

746
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: of years, last maybe two or three years, that you've

747
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: been maxing out your IRA? Amazing? That's a killer accomplishment.

748
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: And the ROTH, especially in those early working years, right

749
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: like the roth IRA is the ticket.

750
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: It's the lowest that you're probably ever going to pay

751
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: when it comes to pattacks now on your money. By

752
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: the way, speaking of ross, you can still contribute to

753
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: your WROTH for last year for twenty twenty five if

754
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: you haven't maxed it out yet, So don't sleep on

755
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: that you might be thinking, well, guys, I'm like, I'm

756
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: just going to stick it to this year because there's

757
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: no way I'm going to max it out. You never know,

758
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: go ahead and put it in last year's and what

759
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: if you get some incredible raise? What if you Yeah,

760
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: there's just lots of different opportunities that might arise.

761
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: Or if you drop a bank and all of a

762
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 2: sudden you're like, what am I going to do with

763
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: this money?

764
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: I never know? But the IRA contribution limits have increased

765
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: this year to seventy five hundred dollars, and so just

766
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: a nice little rule of thumb for everyone out there,

767
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: if you want to max it out, if you want

768
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 1: to be like Stephanie, that simply means putting aside six

769
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five dollars a month. And I said,

770
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: simply because it's an easy number, not because that's an

771
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: easy amount of money to be able to stock away.

772
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: It's still a lot of money. But I think this

773
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: is a great goal to have, and it's also it's

774
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 1: also totally possible to become a rough IRA millionaire over

775
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: your working career. Stuff. And you said you're about to

776
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: be thirty if you invest only in your IRA for

777
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: the next thirty years. It is very, very possible for

778
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: you to be in the million dollar range. Yeah by

779
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: the time you hit that age fifty nine and a half,

780
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: or at least close to it. And by the way,

781
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 1: boo to the no match from your employer.

782
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: That stinks. Yeah, I always hate hearing that. It's a

783
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 2: real bummer, especially if you're the kind of person who's

784
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: keen on investing more in tax advantaged accounts. That's just

785
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 2: the next incentive that you're like, Oh, good, someone's going

786
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 2: to either fifty cents on the dollar or one hundred

787
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 2: cents on every dollar I contribute up to a certain

788
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: point match it. O. Man, great, let me go for that.

789
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: And it can be a little like deflating, I think

790
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 2: if your employer doesn't participate. But yeah, let's talk about

791
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: your next steps because that doesn't exist. We want you

792
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 2: to keep maxing out the roth each and every year,

793
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 2: partly because of how flexible a roth ira can be.

794
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: A lot of people don't know this, but you can

795
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: tap your roth ira if you need to once you're

796
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: ready to buy a home, so you can take out

797
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars of earnings for a home down payment.

798
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 2: Plus all of the contributions that you've made over the years.

799
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, first time home buyers, actual earnings, not just the contributions.

800
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: I know, pretty slick, I mean even still, so ideally

801
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: you leave it untouched, right, But like I guess, the

802
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: ultimate goal is to save for a down payment and

803
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: to max out your wrath at the same time, so

804
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: that you never have to touch the roth dollars, because

805
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: right that's the Charlie Munger rule. You're interrupting compounding unnecessarily,

806
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: and at least you're putting that money into an asset

807
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 2: that will likely increase in value, which is buying a home.

808
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: But you know, knowing that you can access some of

809
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 2: that money in the event home ownership becomes a near

810
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 2: term desire something that you're keen on doing more quickly.

811
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: It's nice.

812
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 2: It's nice to know that you can at least have

813
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 2: some of those funds exactly.

814
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: And let's talk about how much cash you have set aside,

815
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: whether or not that is too much to be hanging

816
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: on too. I think that depends on when you're hoping

817
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: to buy a home, how much your monthly expenses are

818
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: as well, because you want to have three at least

819
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,879
Speaker 1: three months worth of expenses on hand, and I think

820
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: she said like forty or fifty thousand dollars in total cash.

821
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: I think that's I think there's a chance it's more

822
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: than what you probably spend in that timeframe in three months,

823
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: and so the rest of that money would be better

824
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: off going to investment accounts instead of sitting in cash,

825
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: even if you are earning a pretty decent rate with

826
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: one of the online high yield savings accounts. But I

827
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: think you might be angsy about that because of your

828
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: desire to buy a home, which does make sense. But

829
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: even if the cash that you have on hand far

830
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: exceeds what you need in an emergency, find investing that money.

831
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: It wouldn't make a ton of sense if you're you know,

832
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 1: if you've got your sights set on the house, if

833
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 1: you want to use that for a down payment soon.

834
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: That being said, she doesn't seem like a super near

835
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: term goal of us, you know, like she's talking about like, well,

836
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: that's like someday I want to be able to do this,

837
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: But she did. She wasn't talking about home ownership like

838
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: somebody who, in my opinion, is super pumped or super

839
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: eager to get her hands you know on a home.

840
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 2: Sounds like it could be eight to ten years away,

841
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 2: even like I don't know, maybe maybe it's five. Yeah,

842
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 2: maybe it's seven, eight ten. But if it's five plus,

843
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: then I think everything points to yes, you should be

844
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 2: investing more of those dollars. Like, if you're like, I

845
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 2: don't know, man, guys, it could be two years, then

846
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 2: it's probably best to keep that money in a high

847
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: savings account or high paying CDs. But yeah, you just

848
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: wouldn't want to trade the chance of higher returns for

849
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 2: the potential of lost capital, which could derail your ome

850
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 2: ownership goals. You're like, I'm gonna invest it, I'm gonna

851
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 2: grow it, and then the market has a rough couple

852
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: of years and you're like, dang it, I would have

853
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 2: been better off saving, right, And so yeah, if it's

854
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 2: on this longer timeline, you're gonna want to be investing

855
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 2: those dollars in a taxable brokerage account instead. There's no guarantee,

856
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: right that you out earn a higled savings account, but

857
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 2: the longer timeline, like every year you add on to

858
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 2: that makes it far more likely that you're going to

859
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 2: outpace savings. Almost never do savings outpace stocks. They might

860
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: like in a given you're like, let's say twenty twenty two, right,

861
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: you would have been better off saving than investing. But

862
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 2: when you're talking about even the combo of twenty two,

863
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: twenty three, twenty four, you would have been far better

864
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: off being an investor than you would have been being

865
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: a saver. And I do think savers aren't being punished

866
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 2: to quite the same degree that they were six years ago.

867
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: But I don't think we can count on savings rates

868
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: that the banks are paying to continue to stay where

869
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: they have been as well. Right, Yeah, yeah, it'll be

870
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: interesting to see where rates go over the next year. Yeah,

871
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean that's also a bit more conservative

872
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: advice because like and like that is generally what we

873
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: say to folks, because I think a lot of folks

874
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: can't handle like. It just makes them a bit nervous

875
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: if there is a downturn in the market and they're like, no,

876
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: that's the money I was counting on. So some of

877
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: it comes down to how much of a goal. How

878
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 1: certain is it that you want to have this cash

879
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: on hand to be able to purchase the ble? Is

880
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: the goal? Exactly? Yeah, exactly, Because like honestly. So, I

881
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: mean that's why that's like some general guidance, but rolling

882
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: monthly returns, if you look at any three year period

883
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: in the stock market going back one hundred years, it

884
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: is eighty five percent that the market is in the green.

885
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: That is positive. And so if it was me personally, like,

886
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: I think I'm investing that money because of that, knowing

887
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 1: what the stats are, I am much more likely to invest.

888
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: Even though a lot of times on the show we

889
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: talk about, well, if this is a serious goal of

890
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: your yeah, you want to go ahead and that park

891
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 1: that money as cash, have it sitting as dry powder,

892
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,959
Speaker 1: ready to go. It's on the sidelines, ready to get

893
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: subbed in. But I didn't necessarily hear that in her voice.

894
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: She's kind of like, I want to be smart with it,

895
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: and I do have some of these longer term goals,

896
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 1: and so I don't know, there's I think I might

897
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: want to push her slightly more towards investing as opposed

898
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: to reaching out for the super near term goal. First.

899
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 2: That's why I think the historical data that you reference

900
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: is so helpful. Right to know, all right, eighty five

901
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 2: percent of the time, all right, I can feel comfortable

902
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 2: with that, like, what is your risk tolerance? Do you

903
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 2: or don't you feel comfortable with taking that risk?

904
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: That's a pretty long chance, gosh, if a growing your money,

905
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: it is, yeah, but you feel like, gosh, I don't

906
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: know the fifteen percent that would weigh over my head,

907
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: and I am on a three year timeline. But again,

908
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 1: you extrapolate that out even just a couple of years further,

909
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 1: and the odds are even higher, right that the stock

910
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: market is going to perform better than your high. You'll

911
00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: save these accounts.

912
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 2: So with every year you can wait, and the more

913
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 2: flexibility you can include in your plan, it makes it

914
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: even more of a good idea to be investing those

915
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 2: dollars and not saving them. You don't want to keep

916
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: write that emergency fund money on hand. The rest of

917
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 2: it should probably be invested.

918
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: That's right, all right, Joel. We are going to hear

919
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: from a listener here in a second who is looking

920
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: to keep his car payment around. He's getting friendly with it.

921
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: We will take his question in more right after this.

922
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, we're back. We got more more listener

923
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 1: questions to get to and stuff.

924
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, good stuff. And this next question comes from listener

925
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 2: Ricky it's actually more of a comment. Here's she wants

926
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 2: to like, I want to put up fisticuffs and go

927
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: go to town with you over and me bring it over.

928
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: Advice about car loans, Hey.

929
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: Matt and Joel.

930
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 7: In a recent episode, you mentioned paying cash for a car,

931
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 7: and we'll like, totally get the psychological win of having

932
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 7: no car payment and no interest. I don't think the

933
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 7: math always supports that decision. If I can get a

934
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 7: car loan at let's say seven percent, but something like

935
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 7: QQQ has compounded roughly eighteen to twenty percent annually over

936
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 7: the last decade, including dividends, then mathematically it often makes

937
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 7: more sense to keep the loan and invest the cash.

938
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 7: I say this from personal experience. I had a car

939
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 7: loan at around four percent from that cheap COVID era

940
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 7: fed money, and I was aggressively paying it down faster

941
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 7: than required. Toward the end of the loan, I ran

942
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 7: a simple mental experiment. Option one pay five hundred dollars

943
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 7: a month and finish the loan a year early, or

944
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 7: option two pay the minimum two hundred and fifty dollars

945
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 7: a month, stretch the loan out for another year, and

946
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 7: invest the extra two hundred and fifty dollars instead. Well,

947
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 7: what actually happened. The investment doubled during that period. Had

948
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 7: I gone with option two, I could have sold the

949
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 7: investment at in point, paid the car off entirely, and

950
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 7: still had cash left over. In effect, that last year

951
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 7: of investing would have paid for the car for free.

952
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 7: And the key part is liquidity. I wasn't locked in.

953
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 7: I could have exited the investment at any time once

954
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 7: it made sense, instead of waiting for the loan term

955
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 7: to end. This is really how people get ahead in

956
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 7: a debt based economy. Wealthy people understand that borrowing cheap

957
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 7: money is a tool. A four percent loan is cheap debt.

958
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 7: You're investing in an appreciating asset while carrying low cost

959
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 7: debt on a depreciating one. Even at higher rates, say

960
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 7: a ten percent car loan, if your investment returns fifteen percent,

961
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 7: there's still positive arbitrage there. Obviously, this isn't about leverage

962
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 7: gone wild or taking dumb risk, but purely from a

963
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 7: math and capital allocation standpoint, paying cash isn't always the

964
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 7: optimal move. Cheers Fellows.

965
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: All right, Joel Man, I love because these are the

966
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 1: kind of questions. These are the kind of prompts that

967
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 1: get us thinking. These are some of my favorites because

968
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,919
Speaker 1: we're talking about interest rate arbitrage here, which is where

969
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: you are investing in a way that out earns the

970
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: interest that you would pay for the debt products that

971
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: you are carrying or servicing. And it can work, but

972
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: it can also be risky. So let's dig in this

973
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: is this is fun? Yeah, yeah, And I think Breaky

974
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: doesn't think that we're immediately like you know, all that

975
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: fighting language that was it was just for fun. I mean,

976
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: I'm taking the gloves off.

977
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: We're going to down rinky. And one of the things

978
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: he mentioned was, well, why is this four percent car loan?

979
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 2: And I invested instead of paying it off and or

980
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 2: I don't remember if he said he did or if

981
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: he could have as he ran the number of posts.

982
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: I think he said he was accelerating payment right for

983
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 2: a while at least. And man, I think that's something

984
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: that you and I would agree with him on. You

985
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: already have a four percent car note. Yeah, I wouldn't

986
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,479
Speaker 2: hyper prioritize paying it off quickly. So there's a really

987
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 2: big difference we have the note between paying off a

988
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: low rate car loan that you currently have and taking

989
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 2: out a new car loan. Right, So, if you've got

990
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 2: a car note four to five percent or something like

991
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 2: that interest rate, even if we would have advised against

992
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 2: getting that loan on the front end, right, well, invest

993
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: in tax advantaged accounts instead of paying it off. That

994
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 2: would be our advice on the back end. So and

995
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: then you know, once the car loan is paid off,

996
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 2: we would still like to see you never have a

997
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 2: car loan again in your life. You and I, Matt,

998
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: we tend to view car loans differently than home loans

999
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: because homes appreciating value over time. Cars don't.

1000
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1001
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: One of my life mottos that something I strive to

1002
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 2: live by is to never finance depreciating assets.

1003
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: I just that's a good rule. I think it's a

1004
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:45,240
Speaker 1: slippery slope. Yeah. And also we agree that cheap money

1005
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: can be a reasonable tool. This is something that we've

1006
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: talked about on many episodes in the past, and unlike

1007
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,240
Speaker 1: other personal finance podcasters and folks are in the money space,

1008
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 1: we distinguish the difference between what we'll call good debt

1009
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: and bad debt. It all comes down to what you

1010
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: are doing with that debt. And actually episode six thirty

1011
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: seven was all about using debt in order to build wealth.

1012
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 1: There are pros to keeping some debts around in your

1013
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 1: life for longer if it allows you to invest more,

1014
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: especially in tax advantage accounts. And we want how many

1015
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: listeners out there to use debt strategically and to be

1016
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 1: able to realize the power of liquidity more over time

1017
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: as well, which is also something that folks don't always

1018
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: think about for sure. Yeah.

1019
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 2: So, I mean, if you haven't listened that episode that

1020
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 2: was with an author who wrote a book called The

1021
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 2: Value of Debt, and you would think, oh, my gosh,

1022
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 2: Matt and Joel having a guy on who would write

1023
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 2: a book titled.

1024
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: Bads like an oxymoron, doesn't that?

1025
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 2: But we thought he had actually a pretty reasonable approach

1026
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: to the idea. And it gets more complicated, right though.

1027
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 2: His interest rates rise and the discrepancy between what you

1028
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: might be able to earn on your money versus what

1029
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 2: you might pay in interest gets a heck of a

1030
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 2: lot closer, making it much or difficult decision.

1031
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: And so I think what.

1032
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,720
Speaker 2: I'm getting at here too is that it's also important

1033
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: to note that debt payments are guaranteed and returns are not,

1034
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 2: which is why that still doesn't mean car debt ever

1035
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 2: really makes sense in my opinion, especially as interest rates

1036
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: have risen. Ricky is looking at you know, QQQ returns

1037
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 2: for the past decade, which have been really good, right

1038
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 2: hindsight is twenty twenty though, and you know, we could

1039
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 2: pick other time periods where you would not have done

1040
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 2: as well. I think it is at least important to

1041
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: consider the fact that do you have enough liquidity on

1042
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: hand to pay the debt or you just banking on

1043
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 2: the fact that your investment is over a short to

1044
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: medium term period of time going to outpace what you

1045
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 2: would owe in interest payments, you know, to the let's

1046
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 2: say the dealership, to the car lender.

1047
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. And something else worth mentioning here too, Ricky, is

1048
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: that not everyone thinks as logically as you do. What

1049
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: is the opportunity cost in that were you to not

1050
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: actually make your carpet or you know, if you're not

1051
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: paying uh extra on your car payment, or if you

1052
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: are making payments as opposed to having purchased the car

1053
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: with cash, are you then going to take the difference

1054
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: and actually invest it? Right? So there's this entire behavioral

1055
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: side of things that maybe on the front end you

1056
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: tell yourself, Oh, this is what I'm going to do

1057
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: with it, But then you start looking at something else

1058
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 1: that you want to spend money on and you're like, well,

1059
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's kind of tight this month, or

1060
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: actually it would be really great to go on this

1061
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: trip that we're thinking about going on. I'm like, oh,

1062
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: you know what I could do not invest because I

1063
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: don't have to. There's nobody holding my feets in the fire. Yeah,

1064
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: you got to be really disciplined. And I don't know

1065
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: whether that's through an accountability partner where you've got somebody

1066
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: there that you've shared this goal with, you know, especially

1067
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: if you've got a partner or a spouse. But there's

1068
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: no mechanism in place as going to guarantee that you're

1069
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 1: actually going to take those the money that you would

1070
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: have used to purchase the vehicle and instead funnel that

1071
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: into the market and grained at the end of the day,

1072
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,919
Speaker 1: that's what money's for to actually spend. But still there's

1073
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:03,879
Speaker 1: something very very much guaranteed about making eliminating that car

1074
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: loan and not taking on that car loan debt.

1075
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, taking on this mindset could could

1076
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 2: certainly increase people's ability to think they can afford more

1077
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,800
Speaker 2: car than they might otherwise be able to because they're like, oh, okay,

1078
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 2: well I can't afford that nice. I mean, because guess

1079
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 2: what I'm going to get this like a sweet four

1080
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 2: and a half percent interest rate or something from my

1081
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,919
Speaker 2: credit union, and gosh, I'm totally going to do better

1082
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 2: than that in the market in the coming years, right,

1083
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 2: And so my man, I might as well just buy

1084
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 2: the thirty eight thousand dollars car, and so the twenty

1085
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 2: eight thousand dollars car, and I could just see how

1086
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 2: it could inch upwards in your ability to feel comfortable

1087
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 2: taking on more debt than you otherwise would. And so

1088
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 2: that's why I think the lifestyle creep happening there. Yeah,

1089
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 2: I'm just straight up like, no car debt is the

1090
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 2: best way to live, and guess what you can still,

1091
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 2: it makes it even easier to invest more money to

1092
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: get higher returns, whether you're whether that's QQQ, whether that's

1093
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 2: the whether that's VU S and P five hundred, no

1094
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 2: matter what fund you're investing in, I think just you

1095
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 2: have more money to invest when you don't owe money

1096
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 2: to people for the car you.

1097
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: Drive, you know, a buddy. All right, let's get back

1098
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: to safe sex ride by incendiary brewing. I don't. I

1099
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: don't like sandit either. I know it's weird. I guess

1100
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: we know because like we listened to podcasts with our

1101
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: kids that maybe a prude, I guess. So we're probably

1102
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 1: you and I are both probably a bit more conservative,

1103
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: a little more prudish when it comes to stuff like this.

1104
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:26,720
Speaker 1: I don't think.

1105
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: I don't think of myself as prittish.

1106
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: You know, I don't. You probably are, though, compared to

1107
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: like the average or at least median sort of view

1108
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: of most Americas. I hate that term, though.

1109
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't think of myself in those.

1110
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: Think of a better cooler, hipper hip dad term, Joel.

1111
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 1: I'll try to come up with something. So So, what

1112
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: folks don't know is that while one of the listener

1113
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: questions was playing, I hopped up, went to our little

1114
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: clubhouse kitchen and grabbed another one of these beers and

1115
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: a beers out of the fridge because you only grabbed

1116
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: one and we're sharing it, and I realized, wait a minute,

1117
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 1: this is an NA And because you and I will

1118
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: typically share a bigger beer off theme. We're trying to

1119
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: get work done. You know, I don't want to convinced

1120
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: that I should be taking a nap in thirty minutes, uh,

1121
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: based on what I'm when I'm drinking. Drink as much

1122
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: of this as you want. Yeah. So, and on top

1123
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: of that, I just wanted to enjoy more of it

1124
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: because I thought this was really good. Yeah. I have

1125
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 1: actually been experimenting with some an A beers recently, and

1126
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: not all of them have been great over Christmas, I

1127
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: of course some off putting flavors on some of them. Yeah,

1128
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: So the algorithm knows what I'm into, and not surprisingly

1129
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:37,439
Speaker 1: they they kept showing me these beer ou ads, which

1130
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: is the new Tom Holland founded in a beer company

1131
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,399
Speaker 1: or something actor not the historian, right, yes, one hundred percent,

1132
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: the uh spider man Tom Holland, And I thought, oh

1133
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: my gosh, this must be. And they've got like the

1134
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,280
Speaker 1: different ads where there's somebody that's like wine taste testing

1135
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: in them. There's like, oh man, I always say, this

1136
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: one actually has more flavor than this other one. Come on.

1137
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: I totally got sucked into it. And so when I

1138
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: stepped into total wine. I picked up a six pack

1139
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 1: of their hazy. It's like in this purple kind of

1140
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: box or coloring whatever. I forget what it was called,

1141
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: but I didn't really like it. It wasn't that good.

1142
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: I think this is substantially better. I like, I like

1143
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: athletic and A beers, but uh, I've only had one

1144
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 1: of the bureaus, so I think there is room for

1145
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: them to win me over. Maybe with some of the

1146
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 1: other styles this one. I would say, this is really good,

1147
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 1: This is really tasty. I agree.

1148
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 2: I mean, to me, it tastes like an alternative universe

1149
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 2: I PA like it's it still tastes like an I PA,

1150
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 2: but not in quite the same way you're used to.

1151
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 2: But you're right, it is so much better than any really,

1152
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 2: of the other non alcoholic beers I've ever heard. It's

1153
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 2: like a light I PA.

1154
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: It still has very very much has hoppy flavors going on,

1155
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: has that ipa mouthfeel like. This really does drink like

1156
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 1: a typical I PA man. I wouldn't say maybe, not

1157
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 1: like I would say this drinks like a like a

1158
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: zesty pale or something. I think it's still not as

1159
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 1: satis as the real thing.

1160
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 2: It's like if you meant to put coke regular in

1161
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 2: your cup and you got coke zero and you feel

1162
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 2: like this is goog zero, yeah for sure, and you're like, oh, yeah,

1163
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 2: I mean there's definitely similarities and this is like related, yes,

1164
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 2: but it's not the same.

1165
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: I mean they're both what So there's that. So I

1166
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:19,959
Speaker 1: would say if.

1167
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 2: You're keen on trying more non alcoholic beers and you

1168
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 2: want something that tastes at least more like what you're

1169
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 2: used to with an IPA, this is definitely a good

1170
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 2: one to go with. But totally agree. If you like

1171
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 2: are IPA obsessed, You're you're not going to be like, oh,

1172
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 2: this is the exact same thing.

1173
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: It's it's not the exact same thing. No, Yeah, you're

1174
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 1: definitely gonna realize that it ain't bringing it. Yeah. But

1175
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: also you're gonna be disappointed though, with some of the

1176
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: other NA beers that you try, the more you have,

1177
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: because I've had some rough ones, but uh, glad you

1178
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: and I got to share this one today on the show.

1179
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: You can find our show notes up on the website

1180
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: at howto money dot com and Buddy, that's going to

1181
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,879
Speaker 1: be it for this episode. We'll see you back here

1182
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: on Wednesday with a fresh episode, and we'll see you

1183
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 1: back here on Friday as well, and let's just do

1184
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: the whole thing over again next week and I don't know,

1185
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: watch for instant repeat for the next decade before everyone

1186
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: stay with us, alright, by until next time.

1187
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 2: Best friends Out, Best Friends Out,