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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg P and L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg P and L

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. Four

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million dollars that's a lot to pay

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Speaker 1: for any painting, even if it is a Leonardo da Vinci.

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Speaker 1: And here to help us understand the complexities of the

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Speaker 1: art world and the money involved. A Stephen Lash. He

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Speaker 1: is Chairman Emeritus of Christie's America and he joins us

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Speaker 1: here in our eleven three oh studio. Stephen Lash, thank

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Speaker 1: you very much for being here. Let's just begin with

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Speaker 1: that four hundred and fifty million dollar Leonard da Vinci

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Speaker 1: that was recently auctioned at Christie's. Were you in the

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Speaker 1: room during the auction process? I was in the room

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Speaker 1: during the auction process, and it was one of those

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Speaker 1: high moments in one's auction life. What was it like?

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Speaker 1: Can you just describe it for us? Correct? There was

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Speaker 1: huge excitement, Um, there was anticipation and no knowledge of

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Speaker 1: really what it would end up bringing. We were estimating

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Speaker 1: the picture at a hundred million dollars. It was guaranteed

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Speaker 1: at or about that level. Uh, And it ended up

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Speaker 1: selling for four hundred million dollars plus our commission. How

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Speaker 1: how big was the crowd? They were close to a

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Speaker 1: thousand people attending the auction in several rooms at Christie's. Wow. Um,

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Speaker 1: you said, including commission. And I remember over Thanksgiving break

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Speaker 1: one of my relatives came up to me and said

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Speaker 1: that Leonardo da Vinci, she said that there were fifty

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Speaker 1: million dollars of fees ATTACKTCH to it. And he said,

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Speaker 1: what were those? So? What were those? Christie's charges? A

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Speaker 1: typically a fee to the buyer and the seller as

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Speaker 1: you move up the scale in value, and four hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty million dollars does that smartly? The fees are negotiated,

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Speaker 1: not the fees with the seller, but the way in

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Speaker 1: that case we would divide the fees between ourselves and

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Speaker 1: people like the guaranteurs who come in months before the

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Speaker 1: auction and offer to put in a bid at a

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Speaker 1: certain level. Tell people a little bit about your personal background,

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Speaker 1: because that also informs some of the experience and skills

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Speaker 1: that you bring to not only the art side of Christie's,

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Speaker 1: but also the business side. I'm a lucky guy because

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Speaker 1: I get aid to do what I love to do,

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Speaker 1: which is to look at art, meet interesting people, and

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Speaker 1: travel around the world all the time. My background is

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Speaker 1: um uh, privileged in the sense that I chose my

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Speaker 1: parents very wisely and they encouraged me with this career.

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Speaker 1: Um But you are on Wall Street for it. For

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Speaker 1: a bit. I was on Wall Street, and people think

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Speaker 1: that there's a great economy between working on Wall Street

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Speaker 1: and working at Christie's. But by your opening question, you

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Speaker 1: know otherwise that this is also, in its way a

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Speaker 1: financial business. But what I learned on Wall Street was

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Speaker 1: the importance of long term relationships. The important time to

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Speaker 1: see a client and is when nothing is at stake

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Speaker 1: and you're there to say you care about the client

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Speaker 1: and her long term needs. Okay, so who are the clients.

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Speaker 1: Is it a handful of wealthy individuals that you speak with.

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Speaker 1: We deal with a wide variety of of people. Yes,

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Speaker 1: some are wealthy, some are super rich, others are modest

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Speaker 1: people who play a premium on owning objects that have

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Speaker 1: appreciated to dramatic levels, and it's so interesting to get

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Speaker 1: to know these people and to watch them. There can

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Speaker 1: be multimillion dollar collections in tiny, little, modest, split level

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Speaker 1: houses in the suburbs of some regional city, and it's

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Speaker 1: great fun to discover those. Talk a little bit if

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Speaker 1: you can about and I'm using this word badly, but inventory.

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Speaker 1: In other words, there's got to be a process by

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Speaker 1: which you and your team and the team that auction

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Speaker 1: houses go out and try to convince or as you say,

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Speaker 1: build relationships with potential sellers. How has your experience informed

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Speaker 1: you about those making those kinds of connections, Because not

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Speaker 1: everything is going to be a four million dollar painting,

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Speaker 1: absolutely not. In fact, our average sale would be um

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Speaker 1: much much less, uh, several thousand dollars perhaps, But what

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Speaker 1: we do know is we're very fortunate and having a

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Speaker 1: distinguished name. We're two hundred and fifty years old, and

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Speaker 1: we treasure that that reputation that we have. So everything

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Speaker 1: is built on the trust that the public has in us.

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Speaker 1: We as a result, have wonderful records on what people

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Speaker 1: have bought over the years. One of the real joys

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Speaker 1: of the job, which you asked about um was our staff.

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Speaker 1: We have tremendous specialists who are vastly knowledgeable about the

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Speaker 1: works of art and very approachable. We're open to the

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Speaker 1: public virtually seven days a week, and what these staff

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Speaker 1: specialists like most is to talk to people who are

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Speaker 1: interested in their subject, even if it's not about the

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Speaker 1: most expensive painting we're going to sell. So in some ways,

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Speaker 1: the concept of an auction house where people stand around

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Speaker 1: and hold up signs if they're interested in upping the

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Speaker 1: bid is anachronistic in the Internet age. Is there any

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Speaker 1: move to online sales of any sorts or is this

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Speaker 1: sort of an area that is off limits for that No,

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Speaker 1: not all limits at all. Online sales have become hugely

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Speaker 1: important to us. A business opportunity for us is to

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Speaker 1: make ourselves as accessible as possible to the public, to

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Speaker 1: encourage people to come into the auction house, to let

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Speaker 1: them know they don't have to pay an admission ticket,

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Speaker 1: to let them know that we have extended hours, to

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Speaker 1: let them know there are evenings when people can come in.

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Speaker 1: They can even get a drink, and they're not charged

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Speaker 1: for that. So online sales are a way for people

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Speaker 1: to familiarize themselves with a uh interesting process, and once

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Speaker 1: they're familiar, they're more comfortable in coming to the live auctions.

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Speaker 1: I just want to quickly ask you about your desire

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Speaker 1: for collecting. You've got a personal collection. Is there a

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Speaker 1: piece from your ocean liner memorabilia collection that you particularly treasure?

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Speaker 1: Give you about twenty seconds, um, Yes, I have wonderful murals,

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Speaker 1: um that were trials for the Old Queen Mary built

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Speaker 1: in ninety six. I read about them thirty years ago,

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Speaker 1: called up the artist on the telephone and said, do

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Speaker 1: you have anything you might sell? And she said yes.

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Speaker 1: I wish that we could share a picture of the

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Speaker 1: shine in your eyes as you talked about that with

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Speaker 1: our listeners, but suffice it to just describe it. Stephen Lash,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Stephen Lash, chairman

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Speaker 1: Emeritus of Christie's America in New York, and Pim, I

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Speaker 1: want to go, Uh, look, let's go. I think that

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Speaker 1: would be really fun. Anyway, we want to focus a

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Speaker 1: little bit on what's going on in Europe, where they

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Speaker 1: are still going strong with their stimulus efforts and have

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Speaker 1: yet to start raising rates. Simon Ballard joins us from London.

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Speaker 1: Simon Ballard is a global credit strategist for Bloomberg Simon,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about Greece first

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Speaker 1: and foremost, since tenure yields in that nation dropped below

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Speaker 1: five per cent to the lowest levels since two thousand

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Speaker 1: and nine. Is this because of the ongoing stimulus from

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Speaker 1: the European Central Bank or is this because of something

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Speaker 1: more fundamental? Well, I think it's probably a combination of

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Speaker 1: certainly the the ongoing stimulus from the Central Bank and

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Speaker 1: the chase for yield that has seen investors push further

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Speaker 1: and further from from core Europe out to the periphery

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Speaker 1: in terms of trying to find incremental yield for their

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Speaker 1: for their portfolios. But it's also sort of a reflection

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Speaker 1: of the perceived fundamental change, if you wish, from from

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Speaker 1: from from from Greece's perspective. Um, And yes, you know,

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Speaker 1: perhaps the market has a fairly short memory. Perhaps the

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Speaker 1: you know, the indebted situation of the Greek economy is

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Speaker 1: still far from far from robust. But yeah, as you said,

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Speaker 1: we're back down subs sub five percent, So it's a

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Speaker 1: it's it's an appreciation of of ongoing stimulus from the ECB,

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Speaker 1: the backstop bid and the actually improving macroeconomic profile across

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Speaker 1: the Eurozone, which of course, you know, tends to lift

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Speaker 1: all ships even if the if the weaker vessels are

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Speaker 1: still there on the edge, but you know, they'll still

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Speaker 1: they'll still ride on that on that wave, as as

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Speaker 1: Greece is doing. And just to sort of extrapolate out

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Speaker 1: this central bank backstop, Breven Howard, it was reported as

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Speaker 1: starting up two funds to invest in the recovery of

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Speaker 1: Greek assets going forward. It's trying to preserve some of

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Speaker 1: its client interest after getting a lot of withdrawals and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, yes, Greek bonds are rallying in part because

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Speaker 1: of this deal with its creditors. Uh that it that

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Speaker 1: it came to last week when it concluded a debt

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Speaker 1: swap um. But it seems like there's sort of an

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Speaker 1: air of I don't know if I want to say desperation,

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Speaker 1: but desperation with respect to getting yield. Well, excuse me

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Speaker 1: that there is to a certain extent. I mean, you're

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Speaker 1: you're fighting against your fighting with the with the central

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Speaker 1: banks in times of find to find liquidity and yield.

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Speaker 1: But I think, you know, we look at Greece and

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Speaker 1: a little bit more detailed and you know, the people

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Speaker 1: talking about the you know, they're coming back to the

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Speaker 1: back to the public markets, becoming sustainable in terms of

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Speaker 1: their you know, self financing or beard at a level

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Speaker 1: that you know, they're still like a lower level of yield,

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Speaker 1: but we're away from the precipice if you wish of

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Speaker 1: of of of of debt conversion out of the eurok

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Speaker 1: or so we say, sort of breakdown of the of

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Speaker 1: the euro Zone itself was worse feared at one stage

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Speaker 1: when you know, Greece was trading in in double digit yields.

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Speaker 1: Um So from that perspective, yes, you know, we're we're

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Speaker 1: on we're on a firmer footing. It's still it's still fragile,

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Speaker 1: but it's firmer and I think that's why we're seeing this,

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Speaker 1: you know, continued consolidation and compression in in in grease

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Speaker 1: and other peripheral yields. Well, simon catching your attention now

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Speaker 1: to Britain, because I'm trying to understand something here. You know,

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Speaker 1: I know that you've issued well I see you laugh,

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Speaker 1: right well done, Yeah right, it doesn't I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: fit this together. The fifty you've got, you've got a

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Speaker 1: fifty year guilt, right a British government bond. Um. I

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Speaker 1: believe the yield there is one point six three percent.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't like the the fifty year, they've

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Speaker 1: got a yummy forty year for you at one point

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Speaker 1: six nine. But then can you explain why the thirty year,

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Speaker 1: which trades at one point eight to why would the

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Speaker 1: thirty year be higher in yield than the forty or

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Speaker 1: the fifty and why would it be the actually lower

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Speaker 1: uh than than the twenty five years? Why are you

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Speaker 1: trying to make this make sense? Oh? Sorry, you don't

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Speaker 1: have to, you don't. You don't just draw the line

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Speaker 1: and forget it. Let's call it liquidity there. Let's call

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Speaker 1: it liquidity Pam. And it really is all about the

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Speaker 1: liquidity in the thirty year part of the curve relative

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Speaker 1: to forty or fifty. Forty or fifty year guilts get bought,

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Speaker 1: they get put down there away, that's it. You don't

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Speaker 1: see them until maturity a little um or probably very little,

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Speaker 1: whereas the thirty year is you know, the the you

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Speaker 1: know the long the long term benchmark, it will trade

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Speaker 1: with with much greater fluidity um and hence you probably

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Speaker 1: see that pricing, that pricing anormally, um, that little huck

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Speaker 1: up in the in the curve going out to go

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Speaker 1: up for the years relative relative to the longer days.

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Speaker 1: I'd say it's all to do liquidity and the barn

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Speaker 1: hold mentalities in at the longer end, all right, So

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Speaker 1: it has to do only with the liquidity. Is it

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Speaker 1: cannot be said for for other markets? I mean, is

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Speaker 1: that similar to let's say, what's going on in places

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Speaker 1: like I don't know France for example. I mean, because

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Speaker 1: I'm looking there and you know you kind of have

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Speaker 1: a similar situation. Uh, And what's the reasoning? Well, again,

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Speaker 1: it's because you know, the thirty sorry, the forty or

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Speaker 1: fifty year paper gets brought by asset managers or you

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Speaker 1: you know, the guys that have the long the long

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Speaker 1: duration asset liability. You know, so the real investors versus

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Speaker 1: the speculators, like the investor part of the curve versus

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Speaker 1: the speculator part of the current. Well, there is that,

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Speaker 1: but let's not say that there aren't sort of real

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Speaker 1: money investors at thirty years as well. But there tends

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Speaker 1: to be a greater degree of liquidity and new issues,

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Speaker 1: long dated new issues will be priced off the long bond.

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Speaker 1: We priced off the thirty year, they won't priced off

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Speaker 1: the forty year, or unless it's a specific corporate bond

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Speaker 1: that comes with a with a forty or fifty five

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Speaker 1: year maturity. Should we say, as we've seen over the

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Speaker 1: course of the last week, but generally the thirty year

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Speaker 1: is traded to a much greater extent than forty or paper,

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Speaker 1: and that makes it more volatile in terms of the

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Speaker 1: price and yield proof profile. But pim it also suggests

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Speaker 1: that real money investors to not believe that inflation is

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Speaker 1: going to necessarily pick up, thank you so much more

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Speaker 1: over the next forty years, that they are okay with

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Speaker 1: walking in forty year paper at lower rates, they won't

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Speaker 1: be around in forty years. They bought them so that

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Speaker 1: they've managed to maintain that kind of asset liability mix, right,

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Speaker 1: all right, Well now I know draw the chart, don't

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Speaker 1: worry about it. Thank you very much for being with a.

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Speaker 1: Simon Ballard as our global credit strategist for Bloomberg, he

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Speaker 1: joins us from London. A fascinating story today on the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg by Matt Robinson, financial regulation reporter of Bloomberg News,

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Speaker 1: and it's about the sec looking into how banks sometimes

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Speaker 1: help hedge funds to perhaps uh prop up values of

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Speaker 1: bonds to uh perhaps make their books look a little

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Speaker 1: better toward month end or year end. And Matt joins us, now,

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Speaker 1: can you just explain the overall investigation where it is

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Speaker 1: right now and what you're learning about the steps ahead. Sure,

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Speaker 1: So the agency has actually been looking at this market

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Speaker 1: ever since the crisis, and um ever since the crisis.

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Speaker 1: Basically it was lightly regulated for years and years up

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Speaker 1: until the financial crisis, mortgage backed securities, you know, thinly

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Speaker 1: traded bonds, you know, sort of the alphabet soup of

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Speaker 1: of debt that led to the crisis. So they had

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Speaker 1: a hands off approach. After the crisis, they started digging

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Speaker 1: in and you know, we've seen some criminal cases against

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Speaker 1: sell side traders of the bond prices. And this is

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Speaker 1: sort of like the next chapter in uh their investigation

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Speaker 1: looking at how you know, traders value their books and

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Speaker 1: how hedge funds value their books and how you know,

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Speaker 1: because since there's a lot of wiggle room in pricing,

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Speaker 1: are people taking advantage. Matt could just step back and

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Speaker 1: explain to people that are not familiar with the relationship

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Speaker 1: between hedge funds and banks, why this would be taking

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Speaker 1: place and maybe even what role do hedge funds play

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Speaker 1: in the day to day operations of banks and vice versa. Right,

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Speaker 1: this is you know, because you know, hedge funds are

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Speaker 1: such a big clients of banks. You know these you know,

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Speaker 1: thinly traded securities where prices move a lot. Wait wait,

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Speaker 1: and and you say customers of banks are clients and banks.

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Speaker 1: That could be that they're borrowing money from the bank.

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Speaker 1: They could be that all of their uh sort of

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Speaker 1: administrative or their detailed operations are housed in a bank,

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Speaker 1: or a variety of different relationships, right right, Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: buying derivatives, you know, buying I p O s. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, a portfolio manager of these very I liquid

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Speaker 1: securities is usually kind of walled off from valuation because

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Speaker 1: of these, you know, because because they're so conflicted. But

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Speaker 1: what they can do is if there isn't good pricing

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Speaker 1: by you know, market providers, they can go they can

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Speaker 1: call up a trader say well, I think this bond

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Speaker 1: feels like an eight five this month and you know

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Speaker 1: the you know when in reality it should probably be eighty.

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Speaker 1: So that portfolio manager can go to the Valuation Committee.

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Speaker 1: Blake Listen, I have a recent quote. This is fresh.

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Speaker 1: This is from a market participant. You know, why don't

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Speaker 1: we call why don't we split the difference? It's called

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Speaker 1: eighty two and a half? All right? Taking taking taking

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Speaker 1: a step back here. Also, let's just sort of paint

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Speaker 1: a picture of what hedge funds do. If they have

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Speaker 1: assets that don't trade all that much, like some of

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Speaker 1: these bonds, what they do is at the end of

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Speaker 1: a quarter or at the end of the year, they

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Speaker 1: will put a some kind of valuation on their assets

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Speaker 1: that they then tell their clients their investors to give

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Speaker 1: a sense of how their assets are doing. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: just to get a sense what is the potential consequence

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Speaker 1: of this action if hedge funds are, say, uh, overstating

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Speaker 1: the value of their assets and telling their clients that

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Speaker 1: their returns are substantially larger than they perhaps actually are.

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Speaker 1: So the SEC has been working with criminal authorities. There

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Speaker 1: was a case, um last year with portfolio manager at

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Speaker 1: Visium Asset Management who's doing just that, saying, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: getting getting better price quotes that took a negative month,

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Speaker 1: you know, or negative quarter to a positive one. I

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Speaker 1: mean the way that I'm thinking about this is it

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Speaker 1: has potentially pretty vast implications if this is a widespread practice,

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Speaker 1: because it means that should the market fall, or should

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Speaker 1: the hedge fund have to sell some of the assets,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, those valuations tumble much more than

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Speaker 1: people are expecting when you actually have to find a

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Speaker 1: mark it rather than just sort of propping things up

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Speaker 1: and sort of falsely marking things way above where they

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Speaker 1: would trade. No, right, right, yeah, I mean, because you know,

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Speaker 1: depending it all depends on redemptions. I mean, if if

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Speaker 1: they're you know, if you're gonna have widespread redemptions, you

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Speaker 1: know that will you know, crush valuations. But for a

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Speaker 1: lot of these firms, you know they're invested in a

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Speaker 1: lot of different credit you know they're probably going to

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Speaker 1: sell out of the more liquid stuff. First, is this

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Speaker 1: really because you've got to be able to show the

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Speaker 1: customer a variety of numbers. You've got to show them returns,

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Speaker 1: you've got to show them valuations, and that if this

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Speaker 1: was really a big deal, this would also hurt the banks,

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Speaker 1: right because if you're a bank and you've got a

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Speaker 1: client and you're housing their collateral and you're giving them

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Speaker 1: evaluation for that collateral, maybe the bonds that they purchased,

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Speaker 1: and if that valuation is too high, that's going to

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Speaker 1: skew the way you lend the money. Right, Well, I

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Speaker 1: mean what the SEC is concerned about is having you know,

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Speaker 1: one bond, one price. You know, if if one part

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Speaker 1: of the bank is is you know, has one price

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Speaker 1: here and then another part for a favorite client there.

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Speaker 1: The same thing with hedge months. They wanted they wanted

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Speaker 1: to have like you know, conformity, you know with those

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Speaker 1: But does that really make sense? And because if you

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Speaker 1: have something that is thinly traded, you're going to find

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Speaker 1: you know, one group of investors who know the real

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Speaker 1: value and are willing to put a price and put

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Speaker 1: money behind it, and then someone else it might be

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Speaker 1: packaged into some larger investment entity. How would you be

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Speaker 1: able to tease out the vat that? What the SEC

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Speaker 1: would want to know is like, all right, did you

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Speaker 1: follow the same process throughout? You can't pick this process

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Speaker 1: this time, another process you know tomorrow. It's it's it's

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Speaker 1: This is a fascinating topic because it's also such a

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Speaker 1: slippery area where people will pay a different price depending

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Speaker 1: on how much they have to sell depending on a

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Speaker 1: lot of things. It's not just reliance, say on whether

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Speaker 1: you think you're going to get your money back from

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Speaker 1: the company that's borrowing the money or the individuals. So

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Speaker 1: it's a fascinating issue. Really well done. We look forward

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Speaker 1: to hearing more about it. Yes, indeed, thanks very much

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Speaker 1: for being with us, and thanks for this orry. Matt

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Speaker 1: Robinson is our financial regulator regulation reporter. I beg your

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Speaker 1: pardon for Bloomberg speaking about the Securities and Exchange Commission

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Speaker 1: set to probe but whether banks have helped hedge funds

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Speaker 1: inflate their returns. Nuclear energy is much more established in

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Speaker 1: Europe than it is in the US. Just by way

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Speaker 1: of comparison, about twenty percent of the electricity in the

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Speaker 1: US is fueled by nuclear energy, compared with seventy five

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Speaker 1: percent in France. Here to give us more perspective is

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Speaker 1: Bob Freeman, vice president of the Nuclear Fuel for North

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Speaker 1: America for Arriva and as well as Seth Gray, President

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Speaker 1: and chief executive officer of light Bridge Bridge Corporation. Thank

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Speaker 1: you both for joining us. Bob, I want to start

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Speaker 1: with you and get a sense of what the main

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Speaker 1: obstacle has been to bring more nuclear energy to the

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Speaker 1: US and what inwards are being made there. Sure the

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Speaker 1: difficulty with bringing new nuclear to the United States has

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Speaker 1: typically been the UH initial startup cost. The it costs

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Speaker 1: a large amount of money to build a nuclear power

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Speaker 1: plant that's going to last sixty to eighty years, as

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Speaker 1: well as public opinion and some regulation difficulties to bring

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Speaker 1: the technology that's been around for fifty years to a larger,

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Speaker 1: larger supply seth grade. The ability to contain nuclear energy

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Speaker 1: is then related to the ability to contain any feasible

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Speaker 1: UH material. One, if you could just offer some details

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Speaker 1: about your experience. I know you've worked in the Middle

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Speaker 1: East helping to kind of create these containment like programs.

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Speaker 1: Just give us an update on how that works. Us

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Speaker 1: talking about two areas. One is physical containment of very

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Speaker 1: thick steel and concrete structures that keep within them UM

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Speaker 1: any material. In the event of an incident. For example,

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Speaker 1: at Three Mile Island, nobody was injured because everybody everything

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Speaker 1: was kept inside the containment facility. And secondly, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about technologies and safety cultures that also um prevent or

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Speaker 1: mitigate the effect of any accident as it's happening in Ariva.

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Speaker 1: Bob's company has been a leader in that area. So

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Speaker 1: talk to us Seth about the agreement that light Bridge

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Speaker 1: just came to with Ariva. Well, when Bob talked about

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Speaker 1: the obstacles to nuclear power, they really come down to

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Speaker 1: public and governmental concerns about nuclear safety and market and

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Speaker 1: company concerns about economics. So light Bridge has an then

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Speaker 1: did a new type of nuclear fuel and new technology

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Speaker 1: that will work in the existing reactors as well as

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Speaker 1: new ones that will be built that dramatically improve the

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Speaker 1: economics of nuclear power generation by letting the reactors produce

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Speaker 1: more energy and significantly improve the safety of the reactors

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Speaker 1: as well. And we've been working with four of the

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Speaker 1: largest nuclear utilities to help us design the fuel make

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Speaker 1: sure it meets their needs. We've patented it and now

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Speaker 1: we've signed these agreements with Arriva. We're forming a joint venture.

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Speaker 1: We expect to sign the final joint venture operating agreement

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Speaker 1: this month and launched the joint Ventuare Company in the

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Speaker 1: first quarter of next year to manufacture and sell this

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Speaker 1: nuclear fuel. And a large US utility has actually already

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Speaker 1: signed the first letter of intent with us to be

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Speaker 1: the first to commercially demonstrate this new technology in their

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Speaker 1: reactors to show the economic and safety advantages of this fuel,

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Speaker 1: and combined with the reva's tremendous industrial capacity, knowledge experience

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Speaker 1: in global reach, we intend for this to be a

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Speaker 1: significant product in the nuclear power industry, Bob, do you

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Speaker 1: believe that this new fuel will invigorate the US nuclear

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Speaker 1: power industry? And will it maybe even galvanize more and

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Speaker 1: A people who are worried about climate change CEO two

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Speaker 1: emissions environmental issues. Will this galvanize those people to be

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Speaker 1: more active in supporting nuclear power? Absolutely has the potential

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Speaker 1: to do so. If you can take existing structures and

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Speaker 1: you can allow ten to seventeen percent more power out

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Speaker 1: of them without actually creating new power plants. So use

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Speaker 1: the existing footprints, UM, So you're not creating more, you're

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Speaker 1: just producing more as well as improved the safety. This

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Speaker 1: fuel operates at center line temperature about a thousand degrees

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Speaker 1: cee lower than conventional fuels, which allows it to be safer,

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Speaker 1: which the public is very interested in in UH and seeing,

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Speaker 1: as well as producing economic benefits as Seth had mentioned,

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Speaker 1: that make the power producers UM excited about the technology,

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Speaker 1: interested in investing it and without having to build a

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Speaker 1: new power plant where you can just simply change the

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Speaker 1: fuel design and get those benefits, it's definitely attractive. Web.

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Speaker 1: Can you give us an estimate of what proportion of

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Speaker 1: US electricity usage which should come from or could come

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Speaker 1: from nuclear sources within the next ten years? I mean,

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Speaker 1: just to give us a sense. If it's currently about

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Speaker 1: of energy used by the US, what could you see, say,

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Speaker 1: ten years from now, so without creating new actual footprint

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Speaker 1: reactors and using just this fuel, I would see a

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Speaker 1: good seventeen percent improvement if this fuel was applied to

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Speaker 1: all the existing reactors. In other words, now it's on

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Speaker 1: so probably moved up to ABO and you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: just a set if you could offer your experience working

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Speaker 1: with other countries and what some of the obstacles were

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Speaker 1: and how you managed to overcome them, because this is

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Speaker 1: not an issue that is just contained by geography. It

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Speaker 1: is a transnational issue. Well, first of all, we've been

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Speaker 1: very selective as to which countries we we've worked with,

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Speaker 1: with very responsible governments that want to comply with the

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Speaker 1: highest international standards of nuclear safety, and in our experience,

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Speaker 1: the countries prioritize safety, but obviously will choose natural gas

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Speaker 1: or renewables if that is the better better choice because

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Speaker 1: those are safe to um and what we've designed here

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Speaker 1: and we're bringing to market with Ariva is a fuel

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Speaker 1: that will provide all these countries really the lowest cost

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Speaker 1: way of generating electricity on their grids. We've designed this

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Speaker 1: fuel so with the ten or seventeen percent power upgraad

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Speaker 1: that Bob described, upgrading a reactor with this fuel, that

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Speaker 1: added electricity will be the lowest cost electricity on the

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Speaker 1: grid in those countries, cheaper than as they added coal

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Speaker 1: or natural gas or renewables. So the countries we've worked

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Speaker 1: with are are keenly watching what we're doing here. I

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Speaker 1: was thinking for United our aramits is the most visible one.

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Speaker 1: I guess that you've worked with Z that correct? Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: thanks very much. A gentleman much appreciated. As Seth Grade

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Speaker 1: is the president and the chief executive of a Light

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Speaker 1: Bridge Corporation. Bob Freeman, we thank you as well, a

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Speaker 1: vice president for nuclear Fuel for North America for Arriva

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Speaker 1: based in Paris. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P

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Speaker 1: and L podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews

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Speaker 1: at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

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Speaker 1: I'm pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's One before the Podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio