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Speaker 1: Breaking news now and a hate filled crime leaving a wife,

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Speaker 1: a mother of three beautiful young children dead. She was

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Speaker 1: just doing her job. Why her? Why is a mother

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Speaker 1: of three young children, ages five, ten, and eleven dead.

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Speaker 1: We got a call of a person that was lying

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Speaker 1: in a breezeway that had obvious signs of trauma. Eric

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Speaker 1: Peters is a sergeant with the Holtham City Police Department.

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Speaker 1: On Saturday night to emergency responders pronounced Ryan dead at

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Speaker 1: this complex where she made a delivery. Over the last

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Speaker 1: couple of days, the detectives have been working non stop

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Speaker 1: to try to identify a suspect. Right now, police will

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Speaker 1: only say she's suffered obvious signs of trauma. Well, the

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Speaker 1: detectives are kind of holding that close to the vest

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Speaker 1: for investigative purposes, so they don't want the actual cause

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Speaker 1: of death out there yet, so they're using that as

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Speaker 1: an investigative tool. At this point, you are hearing Sargeant

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Speaker 1: Ery Peters with the Haltam City Police speaking to our

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Speaker 1: friends at WFAA ABC eight with me and all start

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Speaker 1: panel to make sense of a senseless killing with me

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Speaker 1: Gina Tron, Crime reporter Auxygen dot com. You can find

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Speaker 1: her at Twitter under Gina Tron. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: star of a brand new series, Poisonous Liaisons on the

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Speaker 1: True Crime Network. Renowned psychologist, Professor Behavioral Medicine at Trurou College.

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Speaker 1: Author of the Causes of Autism. Doctor Jeff Gardere special guest.

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Speaker 1: John W. Dill, high profile lawyer joining us out of Florida,

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Speaker 1: author of the method Proven Techniques for Winning Jury Trials

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Speaker 1: at johnwdel dot com and joining US. Sergeant Eric Peters

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Speaker 1: leaving literally his job there with the police with the

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Speaker 1: Haltam City Police Department on this case from the get go.

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Speaker 1: But first let me go to someone I've been wanting

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Speaker 1: to speak to very much, and I want to first

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Speaker 1: start with offering our prayers and our thoughts to the

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Speaker 1: husband of Ryan Munsey Graham. She's just thirty one years

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Speaker 1: old with three gorgeous children with me, her husband, Cameron Graham,

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Speaker 1: and right at the get go he is We've never

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Speaker 1: mention it himself. I want you to know there is

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Speaker 1: a go fund we set up for this wonderful family.

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Speaker 1: It's GoFundMe dot com slash Ryan Dash Graham's dash funeral

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Speaker 1: dash expenses and you can see that if you want

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Speaker 1: to join us in helping this family at crimeligne dot com.

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Speaker 1: Cameron Graham, thank you for being with us. I know

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Speaker 1: that you're needed at the funeral home and you're taking

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Speaker 1: your time to be with us. Thank you. Thank you

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Speaker 1: Anna for reaching out to my family and the Swansa

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Speaker 1: and just pursuing them the rifles Jena that need to

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Speaker 1: be done. We really appreciate that, Cameron. I I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine growing up without my mom. She and my dad

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Speaker 1: were the biggest parts of my life. How are your

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Speaker 1: children five, ten and eleven years old doing? I mean

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Speaker 1: with children as young as five, with Marshall and Jason,

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to tell. For emotional trauma at this age,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a long term situation. It's something that

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Speaker 1: you know we'll never get over. And then her ten

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Speaker 1: and eleven year old girls loved her mom very much

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Speaker 1: and they're devastated by it, and they're every day they

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Speaker 1: asked why they can't see their mom and no more.

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Speaker 1: And it's just the worst thing I've ever gone through

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Speaker 1: my taire life. It's so hard to explain. There's there's

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Speaker 1: just so much love and emotion going around that every

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Speaker 1: day we can think this is a nightmare and hopefully

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Speaker 1: it'll hind and it doesn't. Mister Grandma, I did that

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Speaker 1: for so long after my fiance was murdered, a really

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Speaker 1: long time. I'd wake up and at the first moments

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Speaker 1: thought everything was fine, and that would hit me and

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Speaker 1: then I'd have to try to figure out, I know

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Speaker 1: this sounds crazy, is this real, Am? I did? I

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Speaker 1: have a bad dream that he was murdered and it

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Speaker 1: take but just you know, a minute before I would

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Speaker 1: make sense of all those thoughts. I go through the

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Speaker 1: same thoughts every day. I wake up and the first

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Speaker 1: thing I wake up and realize is that I'm not

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Speaker 1: holding my wife, and I think, well, maybe she's in

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Speaker 1: the bathroom. And then reality comes back and I realized

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Speaker 1: that I want to get to see her again. Her

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Speaker 1: children won't get to see her again. O sense was

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Speaker 1: violent for no reason, So senseless, Cameron, When did you guys,

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Speaker 1: for those of you just joining us with me as

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Speaker 1: a husband of Ryan Muncy Graham, She's just thirty one

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Speaker 1: years old when her life is cut short brutally, and

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Speaker 1: this is a mom working multiple jobs, just like her husband,

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Speaker 1: to pull their family and their children up, up, up.

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Speaker 1: And I remember my mom and dad doing the same thing.

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Speaker 1: My dad worked in the night shift, the morning shift,

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Speaker 1: the afternoon shift, my mom being gone all day into

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Speaker 1: the night working and it just breaks my heart. Cameron,

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Speaker 1: when did you realize something was wrong? Well, my wife

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Speaker 1: had left at about eleven forty five that morning to

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Speaker 1: go to Doubt and do some Uber Each deliveries because

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Speaker 1: they were running a special. And she told me she

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Speaker 1: would be home about seven, and about seven to ten

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Speaker 1: I called her. I was like, hey, baby, where are you.

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Speaker 1: He was taking you so long, and she said, oh,

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Speaker 1: I got to do seven more deliveries to finish the special.

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Speaker 1: And then at ten forty one, my message her, and

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Speaker 1: she never called me. She needn't message me back. So

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Speaker 1: I called her and I called her, and I called

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Speaker 1: her and I called her and I called her, and

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Speaker 1: every time it was going straight her voice now. And

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Speaker 1: then at about twelve o'clock PM, twelve hours later, I

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Speaker 1: get a call from her dad. And as soon as

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Speaker 1: I see her dad calling me, I know what that

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Speaker 1: call is, and I'm terrified to an answer, and I

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Speaker 1: do and it's her dad telling me that they found

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Speaker 1: her body deceased. Damn, and I just fall to the ground.

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Speaker 1: I met. It's hard talking about it now. I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't understand why anyone anywhere I

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Speaker 1: would want to do anything like this to my wonderful wife,

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Speaker 1: who it's the nicest person, and all she wants to

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Speaker 1: do is make people happy. She was, she delives. She

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Speaker 1: drove the handicap around as her a full time job.

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Speaker 1: She brought people food that didn't want to get out

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Speaker 1: in the middle of a pandemic. She taught que playing

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Speaker 1: glasses to try to teach people how to save money.

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Speaker 1: And on top of all that, she made her all.

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Speaker 1: She had her own business where she does personal tumblers

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Speaker 1: and cups and stuff like that to me to bring

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Speaker 1: a smile on one's face. And for her to be

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Speaker 1: brutally murdered as an attempt of trying to rob her

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Speaker 1: or whatever they were trying to do, there's no reason this.

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Speaker 1: Everyone to ask why. I can't even ask that question

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Speaker 1: because there's no good answer for that question. There's no

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Speaker 1: reason why. When you saw that phone call come in,

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Speaker 1: what went through your mind? Well, at first I thought

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Speaker 1: I was. As soon as I saw his name on

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Speaker 1: the phone, I was terrified. But when I answered it,

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Speaker 1: and I was hoping I would hear my wife's boy saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: I've lost my phone or something like that. And when

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Speaker 1: her dad answered and he was in tears and telling

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Speaker 1: me that they found her body deceased, my whole body

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Speaker 1: just like quit working. I fell to the ground. I'm bawling.

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Speaker 1: My five year old son is sitting deck to me,

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Speaker 1: asking me what's wrong, and I had to tell I

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Speaker 1: had to tell him. I didn't want to hold it

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Speaker 1: back from him. He's really intelligent five year old, so

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Speaker 1: he knew that there was something wrong. And there's never

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Speaker 1: been an art of conversation. I'll ever having my life

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Speaker 1: having to tell all of my children that their mother's

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Speaker 1: gone and she went to heaven, and then they may

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Speaker 1: not be able to see her, they may not be

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Speaker 1: able to hear her, but they always still her in

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Speaker 1: her heart. That's a heartless conversation anyone will ever have to,

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Speaker 1: and I hope no one has to tell their children

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Speaker 1: that their mothers passed away. Guys with me is our

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Speaker 1: special guest today. It is the victim in this case,

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Speaker 1: A tan gentle victim of a shooting death, the shooting

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Speaker 1: death of his beloved wife just thirty one. This couple

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Speaker 1: had gone through so much together and faced so much

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Speaker 1: adversity together, already doing everything and they could to raise

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Speaker 1: their three children and pull their family up, only to

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Speaker 1: get the call that Ryan, his wife, just thirty one

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Speaker 1: years old, is found dead just doing her job. Jackie,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to let mister Graham go so he does

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Speaker 1: not hear our forensic discussion. Mister Graham, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. I know you're headed to the funeral

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Speaker 1: home right now, and please know our prayers are with you.

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Speaker 1: That's a trip no one wants to make, and it

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Speaker 1: is a long and hard path that you have to

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Speaker 1: walk alone. And I'm just so sorry for you. Please

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Speaker 1: let us know whatever we can do to help you.

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Speaker 1: I really do appreciate that. I would like to say

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Speaker 1: thank you and Nancy and in the whole Howcome City

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Speaker 1: Police Department, thank you all for working it'll do and

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Speaker 1: bringing the justice that was due. And this will see

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Speaker 1: something that my family can't recover from. But I would

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Speaker 1: like to say the last quote that my wife told

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Speaker 1: me before she left that day, and she said to

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Speaker 1: me that we may not have it all together, but

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Speaker 1: together we have it all and from that we have

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Speaker 1: to build and move forward. And every contribution you can

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Speaker 1: make to the go fund me is really appreciated, even

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Speaker 1: if you just want to stay on there that you're

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Speaker 1: giving out prayers. Everything counts, every word, everything, and thank

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Speaker 1: you all so much. Thank you, sir. Clime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Police in Haltom City investigating the death of

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Speaker 1: a woman. They are calling it murder. Police say someone

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Speaker 1: found the victim this last night lying in a breezeway

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Speaker 1: of an apartment building. This is a Northern Cross boulevard.

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Speaker 1: Please say she had obvious signs of trauma. By the

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Speaker 1: time paramedics arrived, that victim was pronounced dead. Authorities say

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Speaker 1: this is an ongoing investigation today, breaking news right now

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Speaker 1: in the case of the murder of this thirty one

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Speaker 1: year old woman. With me, I hope you got to

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Speaker 1: hear Ryan's husband Cameron Graham with us with me. High

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Speaker 1: profile lawyer John Deal, doctor Jeff Gardier, Sergeant Eric Peters,

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Speaker 1: death investigator Joe Scott Morgan, and crime reporter Oxygen dot com.

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Speaker 1: You know her name well, as do I GENA tron

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Speaker 1: Gina Tron first to you tell me the circumstances surrounding

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Speaker 1: Ryan's death. So she it was Wednesday night and Ryan

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Speaker 1: was in the middle of each delivery when you know,

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Speaker 1: she she stopped buy an apartment complex and that's when

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Speaker 1: her husband stopped being able to reach her. You know,

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Speaker 1: she was working this this job. She and her husband

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Speaker 1: they lost part of their income due to COVID, like

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Speaker 1: so many other Americans, So she was working this job

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Speaker 1: on the side to try to make extra money. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: you probably heard earlier her her husband was waiting for

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Speaker 1: her to come home, and she had got seven more

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Speaker 1: deliveries to make and she wasn't able to finish it

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Speaker 1: because somebody or some people took her life. You know,

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Speaker 1: Gina Tron, I'm glad you told me that. You can

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Speaker 1: find Gina Tron on Twitter, course at auction dot com.

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Speaker 1: She's the author of Star sixty seven on Amazon. Jina,

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Speaker 1: I did not realize that they were struggling, that their

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Speaker 1: financial problems were because of COVID. I didn't know exactly

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Speaker 1: what had happened, but like so many people across the

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Speaker 1: country now taking second, third jobs, trying to just keep going,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that Gina Tron to Sergeant Eric Peters

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Speaker 1: special guests joining us in the Haltam City Police Department. Sergeant,

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Speaker 1: thanks for taking your time away from everything that's happening

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Speaker 1: right now to give us information. Sergeant, I know what

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Speaker 1: it's like to work multiple jobs, to finish one job,

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Speaker 1: then trust to your car and go to another job.

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Speaker 1: I've worked as many as three and sometimes four jobs

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Speaker 1: at once. That's hard and that's the position that Ryan

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Speaker 1: Mutsey Graham, just thirty one year old Mama three was in.

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Speaker 1: What do we know? I'm trying to figure out. Was

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Speaker 1: she under an overpass? Was she walking through trees? How

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Speaker 1: did this happen? So late Saturday night, we were called

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Speaker 1: to an apartment complex. Somebody had called in and said

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Speaker 1: that there was a person lying outside their door that

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Speaker 1: had obvious signs of trauma. When we got on scene,

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Speaker 1: we went up to the third floor of an apartment

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Speaker 1: complex building and found the victim lying in the breezeway

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Speaker 1: there on the ground. Let me understand that, sergeant with me,

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Speaker 1: Sergeant Eric Peters from the Haltham City Police Department. Sergeant,

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Speaker 1: you're saying this was on a third floor apartment somebody

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Speaker 1: calling and says, she's out a person lying outside our door.

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Speaker 1: And she was in a breezeway on the third floor.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by breezeway just the corridor the

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Speaker 1: hallway that goes to the different apartments there on the

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Speaker 1: third floor. And it was open air, like you walk

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Speaker 1: up and it's open air and you can go left

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Speaker 1: or right. Yes, that's correct. Got you would she have

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Speaker 1: walked up the stairs or taking an elevator. She would

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Speaker 1: have walked up the stairs from the bottom floor. And

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Speaker 1: I understand correct me if I'm wrong, because you certainly

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Speaker 1: know the facts better than we do. Sergeant Eric Peters.

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Speaker 1: She had not yet made the delivery. The food was there,

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Speaker 1: that is correct. She had not made her delivery. That

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Speaker 1: yet what she robbed. That is what we're believing the

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Speaker 1: motive is. We believe that that she was robbed and

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Speaker 1: that was the reason for the offense. You know, I'm curious,

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Speaker 1: Gina Tron, crime reporter with Oxygen dot Com. I've seen it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe this is anecdotal knowledge, sheina, But I see um

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Speaker 1: when a pizza guy goes by, or sometimes I see

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Speaker 1: it on the doors of restaurants. We only have x

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Speaker 1: amount of twenty five dollars cash. Our drivers don't carry cash.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you attack an Uber driver, what are

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Speaker 1: you really going to get? Isn't their procedure or policy

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Speaker 1: that they don't carry a lot of cash around? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right, um and uh. In fact, this is not

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Speaker 1: the first Um delivery driver in the area that's been killed.

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Speaker 1: I guess apparently there was a Uber I'm sorry, there

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Speaker 1: was an Amazon delivery driver that was killed just two

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Speaker 1: days before Christmas, Timothy Allen, who was shot in his

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Speaker 1: car right after making a delivery as well. And I

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Speaker 1: mean they don't you know, they don't know what the

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Speaker 1: motive was for that because nothing was taken from him.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, drivers, that's extremely odd, Gina Tron, And you're

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Speaker 1: absolutely correct, Gina Tron joining me from Oxygen dot com

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Speaker 1: kind of a red flag that another delivery person have

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Speaker 1: been shot. But back to you, Sergeant Eric Peters, we

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Speaker 1: don't know yet whether Ryan was robbed. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: she's not raped, there's no sex attack, and she's not robbed,

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Speaker 1: could it be just a thrill kill of a mother

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Speaker 1: of three, Well, I would hope that that's not the case.

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Speaker 1: But again, we do believe that she was robbed in

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Speaker 1: this instance before she was killed, and another issue just

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Speaker 1: putting it out there. To doctor Jeff Gargier, Board Certified

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Speaker 1: Clinical Psychologists, Professor Behavioral Medicine at Truro College, Doctor Jeff,

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Speaker 1: almost everything is cash less right now. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you go to try to buy something and you actually

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Speaker 1: interact with a human during COVID, they're covered head to

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Speaker 1: toe and plastic and rubber gloves and you put your

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Speaker 1: credit card in a little device. You don't sign anything, nothing.

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Speaker 1: Nobody wants to touch anybody. A lot of places even

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Speaker 1: ban the use of cash now, doctor Jeff. So what

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Speaker 1: could they get off this mother of three? I don't

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Speaker 1: get it. I think you may have it right here.

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Speaker 1: Even if they thought that she may have had some

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Speaker 1: loose change or some kind of money on her, this

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Speaker 1: was a thrill kill because think about this. If it

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Speaker 1: was just about the money, they could have held her up,

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Speaker 1: said emptier pockets will take it. You disappear. We have

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Speaker 1: masks on, pretending that we're you know, we're trying to

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Speaker 1: prevent COVID or whatever the case may be, and that

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Speaker 1: would be the end of it. But the fact that

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Speaker 1: they killed her, and she was so viciously killed, you

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Speaker 1: have to look at, you know, a diseased mind or

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Speaker 1: diseased minds that are some sort of adrenaline and thrill

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Speaker 1: off of this. Back to you, Sergeant Eric Peters, the

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Speaker 1: media relations officer with the Haltham City Police Department. You know,

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Speaker 1: I know you just heard her husband thanking the police department,

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Speaker 1: which of course you deserve, but doesn't I just break

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Speaker 1: your heart to hear this guy and his whole family,

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Speaker 1: little babies five, ten and eleven, thanking you for doing

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Speaker 1: your job when he's in so much, so much pain.

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Speaker 1: It does. You know, murders in Haltham City, they're a

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Speaker 1: rare thing, so so for us to have one a year,

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Speaker 1: that's that's kind of the norm. But for him to

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Speaker 1: to to be be hurting so bad. We're just happy

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Speaker 1: that we were able to come to a conclusion and

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Speaker 1: then you correct the case. You sure it did, Sarah.

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Speaker 1: Sergeant Eric Peters the Haltham City Police Department congratulated for that.

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Speaker 1: It reminded me of so many times at the end

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Speaker 1: of a murder trial, Sergeant, where the victims family, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they've been suffer suffering, sitting through the trial, hearing the

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Speaker 1: medical examiner, hearing all the Abdens come up and thank

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Speaker 1: me at the end of the trial, and it would

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Speaker 1: just break my heart. I don't know why, it just would.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you joining us,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about the death of a beautiful young mom,

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Speaker 1: just thirty one, doing her job, finishing her last seven

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Speaker 1: deliveries with Uber Delivery. They were running a special she

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Speaker 1: never made at home. Who is Ryan Munsey Graham? Earlier

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Speaker 1: you heard from our friends at eleven DFW. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to Maria Guerrero NBC five, wife and mother of

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Speaker 1: three small children. Ryan Graham Munsey was working her Uber

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Speaker 1: Eats delivery jobs Saturday night when she was murdered. Found

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Speaker 1: in the breezeway of the Northern Cross Apartments in Halsam City.

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Speaker 1: I believe she was delivering food to somebody in that building.

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Speaker 1: The thirty one year old did not make it to

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Speaker 1: the customer's door before she was killed. A motive isn't

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Speaker 1: being made public. And to Alex Reiser w FAAABCA, it

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Speaker 1: was Bailey who introduced this kind hearted, hard working mom

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Speaker 1: to her husband, Cameron. So it's just really sad this

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Speaker 1: all happened. Now Cameron is left to raise the kids

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Speaker 1: alone as police work to figure out who killed his wife.

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Speaker 1: I'm just hoping that we can catch who ever did this.

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Speaker 1: If anybody has any information, heard anything, so anything, obviously,

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Speaker 1: just come forward and let us know. I'm still kind

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Speaker 1: of in shock. It's really hard to believe just that

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Speaker 1: somebody could do that to her, to anybody and more

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Speaker 1: from her best frantake a listen to w FAA. Those

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Speaker 1: who knew Ryan Munsey remember her as a loving wife

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Speaker 1: and mom man her and she just loved her kids

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Speaker 1: so much. She has two daughters, Roxy and Mollie, and

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Speaker 1: she has a son, Jason. Her friend Bailey Abels has

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Speaker 1: known her for nearly a decade. She was goofy as

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Speaker 1: all can be and just a really kind person. Ryan

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Speaker 1: worked as a driver for the disabled, but she also

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Speaker 1: delivered for Uber Eats until this weekend when she made

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Speaker 1: it to this Haltham City apartment. To Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jackson State University, take a listen to this,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott. Sergeant Peters, do are you releasing her cod

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Speaker 1: cause of death? Yes, we believe that the she sustained

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Speaker 1: a fatal stab wound. Turn Nack during the attack. You know,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, to come up on a defenseless woman's trying

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Speaker 1: to make a living, the mother of three. You know,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you and I've taught many many times there

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Speaker 1: is a big psychological difference. And the killer that shoots

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Speaker 1: at fifty feet and one that comes up on the

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Speaker 1: victim with a knife and stabs him, I mean in

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Speaker 1: the neck in my mind makes it even worse. Such

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Speaker 1: a vulnerable area on a vulnerable person, unarmed, a lady,

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Speaker 1: a mother at night. I mean, the only the only

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Speaker 1: consolation is that with a stab in the neck, I

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Speaker 1: think she died almost immediately. But did she have time

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Speaker 1: to think about her children? Did she have time to

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Speaker 1: wonder what's happening or to fight back? I doubted Joe Scott. No,

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Speaker 1: But she had an awareness of what was happening. She

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Speaker 1: had an awareness that she was in trouble. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the two adjectives that come to mind are gutless and

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Speaker 1: cowardice when you think about and you know you said

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Speaker 1: that she's defenseless. Yeah, she's defenseless. Let me put a

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Speaker 1: note layer to this. Nancy, her hands were full. She's

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Speaker 1: a food delivery person and she's up on that landing.

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Speaker 1: When you egress onto a landing like this, they had

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Speaker 1: to have been tracking her, they knew where she was

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Speaker 1: going to be. They'd probably be Sergeant Eric Peters said

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Speaker 1: it was an open breeze away. I know exactly the

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Speaker 1: kind of apartment you go up, you know, zig zaggy

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Speaker 1: step and people on the outside can see you trudging

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Speaker 1: up the steps and then it's external. It's probably well lighted.

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Speaker 1: It's got a concrete base to it. I've been on

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Speaker 1: these numbers, numbers and numbers of times on cases similar

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Speaker 1: to this, but this, you know the problem. The problem

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Speaker 1: here is, and it's actually good for the police from

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Speaker 1: a forensic standpoint, whoever did this would have been saturated.

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Speaker 1: They would have been inundated with this poor woman's precious

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Speaker 1: blood that has poured out onto them. It's probably on

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Speaker 1: their hands, certainly on the weapon. It would have transferred

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Speaker 1: to the clothing. And so she is very vulnerable. But

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Speaker 1: she left a piece of evidence with these idiots that

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Speaker 1: did this to her, these cowards. And when whoever came

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Speaker 1: across this, I can tell you this, Nancy, when they

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Speaker 1: called this in and they saw this poor woman in

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Speaker 1: the hallway on this platform. I can tell you this

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Speaker 1: will be an image that will live with that person

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Speaker 1: for the rest of their life because it is scarring.

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Speaker 1: It's jarring, it's absolutely horrific. Guys. We are talking about

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Speaker 1: the death of a gorgeous young mon just thirty one

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Speaker 1: years old, the mother of three little children, Roxy, Molly

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Speaker 1: and Chase, ages five, ten and eleven. Her husband left

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Speaker 1: behind to try to raise his children all on his own,

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Speaker 1: struggling with finances after COVID Mommy working apparently either three

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Speaker 1: or four jobs, Daddy doing the same and the last

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Speaker 1: hours of breaking news taking Listen to our friends at

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Speaker 1: CBS eleven all they wos ten o'clock tonight, Haltham City

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Speaker 1: Police say that they have made arrests in the death

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Speaker 1: of a delivery food driver. So thirty one year old

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Speaker 1: Ryan Munsey was found dead at an apartment complex on

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Speaker 1: Saturday evening, and they have called her death a murder

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Speaker 1: from the start. Joining me, let's go straight out to

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Speaker 1: Sergeant Eric Peters with the Haltham City Police Department. Who

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Speaker 1: are the purps. So last night, late last night, we

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Speaker 1: arrested to fourteen year old juvenile males in connection with

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Speaker 1: this murder. They were arrested at an apartment complex nearby

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Speaker 1: over in Fort Worth and taken into custody by our

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Speaker 1: SWAT team without any incident. Were they in their own home?

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Speaker 1: I believe they were outside their residence when they were

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Speaker 1: taken into custody. And then as she said, they're residence

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Speaker 1: to me, that means they're brothers or at least related. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know that they're related. I do

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Speaker 1: know that they know that they knew each other. They

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Speaker 1: when I say outside their residence, I mean outside the

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Speaker 1: apartment complex there where they lived in an apartment complex nearby.

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Speaker 1: You said that they are fort teen year old juveniles,

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Speaker 1: and I assume that it's why you're not revealing their names.

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Speaker 1: That is correct. Can you tell us if they make confessions?

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Speaker 1: I do not have that information. I believe the detectives

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Speaker 1: were still talking to them this morning. Well it's my experience.

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Speaker 1: John W. Deal, high profile lawyer joining US, author of

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Speaker 1: the method Proven Techniques for Winning Jury Trials at johnwdal

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Speaker 1: dot com. John, if they're talking at all, that's going

427
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: to be used against them in a court of law.

428
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: And let me point out that juveniles are not questioned

429
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: unless police have authority from a guardian, just so you

430
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: know that. But John Deal, if they are speaking at

431
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: all at that age, whatever they say, where that they

432
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: confess or they make up a lie, that lie is

433
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: going to be very transparent, probably full of conflicting statements

434
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: and facts. What do you think that's correcting, Nancy? At

435
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: this if they're talking, I'd be curious as to who

436
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: the actual person who did the deed was. It's very

437
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: possible there, That's what the conversations are at this point

438
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 1: between the two of them. Both would be culpable, of course,

439
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: but I'm sure that's what the detectives are working on.

440
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 1: And if they're talking, they've had the permission to talk.

441
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: I think eventually we'll get a clear picture of exactly

442
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: what happened in his last moments. John W. Deal joining me,

443
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer. How do you get a statement from

444
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: a fourteen year old? Generally have to get permission from

445
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: the parent or guardian, and in this case, unless it's

446
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: a spontaneous statement, I mean, they're in cussody. So therefore

447
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: they would still have them random warnings available to them,

448
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: even a juveniles. So they've had the permission to speak

449
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: with them, So anything they're going to be saying now

450
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: is going to be used against them clearly. Sergeant Eric

451
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: Peters with me from the Haltham City Police Department. Sergeant Peters,

452
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: was any evidence removed from their domiciles. The detectives did

453
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: discover some evidence that linked the two juveniles to the offense.

454
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: They were able to find that evidence last night after

455
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: the arrest. Do you know what the evidence is? I

456
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: do not have that information at this time. You're not

457
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: giving it up like a good cop, well in any

458
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: way harm the integrity of the case. But I've got

459
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: a pretty good idea climb stories with Nancy Grace, and

460
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: now I want to go straight back to our own investigation,

461
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,719
Speaker 1: to the death of a young mom, leaving behind her

462
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: husband's who's already working multiple jobs and three little children.

463
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: You know, doctor Jeff Gardier, or clinical psychologist, Professor of

464
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: behavioral Medicine at TURO and author of the Causes of Autism.

465
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: Doctor Jeff, A lot of people can't quite remember what

466
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: happened when they were five years years old. These children

467
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: are five, ten and eleven. But what they'll remember. What

468
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: the takeaway is their life will always be void of

469
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: their mom exactly. And these are critical ages, of course,

470
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: where that bonding with their mom has been horrifically interrupted,

471
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: and they will experience this through their adolescence, through their

472
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: teen years, and right up into their marriages, that there

473
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: is something that is missing. It will take years of

474
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: therapy for them to try to even reconcile this, and

475
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: of course as they get older, they'll learn more and

476
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: more and more about the horrific details of the death

477
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: of their beloved mother. So this will be a lifelong

478
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: struggle for them in every arena of their lives. Well,

479
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: I am grateful for one thing, doctor Jeff Gardier. You

480
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: didn't start up about these being young guys who didn't

481
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: know what they were doing, probably didn't have a good education.

482
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: And you know what, all of that may be true.

483
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: Maybe they didn't have a good education, maybe they had

484
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:19,719
Speaker 1: about upbringing doesn't matter. Ryan Mutsey Graham is dead and

485
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: her husband is at the funeral home as we speak,

486
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: and her children are saying, why can't I see mommy?

487
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: Why can't I see mommy? Straight back out to Gina Tron,

488
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: crime reporter or Oxygen dot Com and author of Star

489
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: sixty seven on Amazon. Gina, what if anything do we

490
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: know about these two teams. Other than they're fourteen, there's

491
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: no other real information that's been given out about them.

492
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: The press leisas came out this morning, and it seems

493
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: like Polica being pretty taint lisped about about them, especially

494
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: because they're juveniles. But it appears that they probably lived

495
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: in the same complex building as one another. Basically all

496
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: that I can gather from it for now. And you

497
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: know what else, Gina, Statistically, when you apprehend a per

498
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: inny case like this, this is not their first swing

499
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: at the ball. I would be willing to bet these

500
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: two have been in and out of trouble, whether it's

501
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: been reported or apprehended or not. Earlier, we heard Gina Traun,

502
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: crime reporter with Oxygen dot Com mentioned that this isn't

503
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: the first time a delivery person has been murdered in

504
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: the general area. I take a listen to our cut seven.

505
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: This is Maria Guerrero NBC five k x AS, almost

506
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: exactly a month before Munzie's murder. So my first thing

507
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: was shocked, and then my first thought was, oh my god,

508
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: the community, what a loss. Another delivery driver was shot dead,

509
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: this time in West Dallas. Timothy Paul Allen was an

510
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: independent contractor delivering packages for Amazon in his personal car.

511
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: According to family, You know, I'm trying to figure out

512
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: is there someone is there a group resist an mo

513
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: that is just peeking off delivery people or Uber drivers.

514
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: That was you speaking Sergeant Eric Peters, discussing the impact

515
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: on the community. Was the perp caught in that case

516
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: where the Amazon delivery person was shot? Well? Being that

517
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: that's a Dallas case, I'm I'm not aware of them

518
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: if they've solved that case or not? Right right well,

519
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, take a listen to k

520
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: X as cut thirteen. Police were called to the twenty

521
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: four hundred block of Leith Street on December twenty third

522
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: and found Allen shot and killed in his car. Police

523
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: say he had made a delivery to the nearby Hampton's

524
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: at Lake West apartments before being murdered. A motive is

525
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: not yet known. His killer is also on the loose.

526
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: You don't get to meet somebody like Paul Allen every day.

527
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: The sixty five year old played piano at Nordstrom and

528
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: area churches. He played in bands and influenced hundreds of

529
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: musicians over the years. He would have two sets of

530
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: keyboards up there playing them. He would have a drum

531
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: machine that he was controlling with his feet. He would

532
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: be playing the bass with his left hand. I mean,

533
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,479
Speaker 1: just an incredible, incredible talent. Allen's family says he picked

534
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: up Amazon Delivery as a side gig amid COVID nineteen.

535
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 1: You know to you, John W. Deal, high profile lawyer

536
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: joining us at John wdel dot com. John, you and

537
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: I have saying along with you J Morgan, Well, everybody

538
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: on this panel has saying more than our share of homicides.

539
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: Do you ever wonder why is it the great people

540
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: that are martyred? Like this mother of three working three

541
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: or four jobs just to keep the family go go,

542
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: along with her husband working just as hard. And then

543
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: you've got this guy Alan who play carried two keyboards

544
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: in his car, played all over influenced so many of you.

545
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: Just a great, wonderful, giving person. Do you ever wonder

546
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: why them? Yes? Exactly, Nancy. And also a lot of

547
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: times when we hear about victims, there's a sense to say, well,

548
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: they shouldn't have been doing what they were doing, doing

549
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: something risky, But there's absolutely nothing certainly with either of

550
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: these victims here. They're doing all the right things or

551
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: out there just trying to make a living and there's

552
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: no way to say, hey, they contributed somehow. It's putting

553
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: themselves in the wrong place for the wrong time. Just

554
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: underscores the tragedy of this case, right jump in. Yeah, listen,

555
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,479
Speaker 1: you had mentioned like connectivity between people targeting these people.

556
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's an organized effort to do this. However,

557
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: there's an awareness with people that are predators. And keep

558
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: in mind they are predators, Nancy. Over the years, I've

559
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: worked cabbies, I've worked pizza delivery people, Chinese food delivery people,

560
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: and we've actually covered cases of food delivery people on

561
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: the air. And it's because they're vulnerable. These predator types

562
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: know that these individuals have no way to defend themselves

563
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: most of the time that they're focused on their job

564
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: because they're just going about living their lives and they're

565
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: in vulnerable places. Just think about if you're a cabby,

566
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: you're the back of your head is exposed. I've had

567
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: several that have been executed while driving down the road, Nancy.

568
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: And these people are among the working class folks out there.

569
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: They're just trying to make a living. But yet you

570
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: know their flanks are always open. There's no way to

571
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: defend yourself because you don't see it coming. Just like Puran,

572
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: she didn't see this coming. Nancy thinks she would have

573
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: walked up there on that landing. No, she wouldn't have.

574
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: But this guy got close enough to bury to bury

575
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: knife in her neck, and so they are very, very vulnerable.

576
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: She wanted to do was finish those seventh deliveries, is

577
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: part of an Uber special and get home to her

578
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: children and her husband. Right now, the two cases are

579
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: not being linked. Take a listen to our cut eight

580
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: NBC k X as police are not linking the killings.

581
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: Faltam City says their case hits close to home, not

582
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: only the fact that she was delivering in our city,

583
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 1: but the fact that you know she has three children

584
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 1: now that that don't have a mother, but also the

585
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: fact that she's just out trying to make money in

586
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: this difficult time, during this pandemic. So you know, it's

587
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: it's a sad deal. Guys. Again, for those of you

588
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: that can spare even a dollar, I'm going to there

589
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: gofund me, GoFundMe dot com slash Ryan Dash Graham's Dash

590
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: funeral Dash expenses Sergeant Peters, do you ever pause and

591
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: wonder why the great, good, wonderful and kind people fall

592
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: victim to predators like these two teens? And make no mistake,

593
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: only one team was holding that night, but they are

594
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: both going to be charged with murder. Do you ever

595
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: wonder that, Sergeant Peters? Yeah, you anytime you go to

596
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: something like this, you always wonder why something like that

597
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: would happen. And you know that's that's that's why we

598
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: do our investigation to figure out why somebody would do

599
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: something like this. But even when you find out why,

600
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: it just seems so senseless, just may seem want to

601
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: jump up from this anchor chair and race to my

602
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: twins and just hold them and protect them and spend

603
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: every minute I can with them. God be with this

604
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: precious family. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, goodbye friend,