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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Josham for this week's select I've

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Speaker 1: chosen our January twenty twenty episode on the Tulsa massacre.

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Speaker 1: It's such a vile event that it left us stain

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Speaker 1: that spread out of Tulsa and even out of Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: to become a blemish on the history of the entire US.

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Speaker 1: And it's a lesson and how important it is to

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Speaker 1: talk about the past, even the worst of the past,

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Speaker 1: to move forward to heal. It's also a lesson on

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Speaker 1: how you just can't bury the past no matter how

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Speaker 1: hard you try. I hope you get a lot out

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Speaker 1: of this episode.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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Speaker 1: Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, there's Jerry over here.

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Speaker 1: We have all come together in the year twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: to wear a silver jumpsuits as always I know, right,

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Speaker 1: and talk about a buried, overlooked blemish in the history

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Speaker 1: of the United States.

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Speaker 2: Are we not going to recount no anything about this

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Speaker 2: past year, no talk about this being the first recording

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Speaker 2: of the new year. Nope, all right, we've had a

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Speaker 2: break here I'm going to push forward. We've been off

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Speaker 2: for a couple of weeks, which was pretty glorious to

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Speaker 2: not have to just over text my brain. But it

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Speaker 2: was also nice to get back in here into the

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Speaker 2: stank of this room.

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Speaker 1: This room, I don't think this room stinks.

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Speaker 3: Well right now.

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Speaker 2: It smells like you're caramel vanilla Freppa lape.

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Speaker 1: This is just black coffee. This happens to be flavor blake.

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Speaker 3: It's really I mean, it smells great.

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Speaker 1: It's I think a green mountain or something. Caramel vanilla coffee.

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Speaker 3: Pod man. It is super fragrant. Yeah, it's nice in

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Speaker 3: a great way. It makes me. It smells like an

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Speaker 3: ice cream Sunday.

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Speaker 1: It's pleasant.

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Speaker 3: It is very.

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Speaker 1: Pleasant, but it's not doing the job. Like I'm still

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Speaker 1: I'm a little tired, a little groggy.

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Speaker 3: You know, I had a four shot latte earlier. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: and so I'm kind of gotcha.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I'm zippy and go downstairs to I know you don't

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Speaker 2: like to pay for coffee, but yeah, go downstairs to

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Speaker 2: Spiller Park.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Hugh Atchison's place.

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Speaker 1: A four shot latte?

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Speaker 3: Yes, Okay, that that has me going.

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Speaker 1: Well, I give it about a half hour before Chuck

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Speaker 1: crashes everybody.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, seriously, anyway, I'm glad to be back.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you're back to You know, we've been

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Speaker 1: here the whole time. This is where you spent Christmas

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Speaker 1: and New Year's Yes, both in this room and Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 3: And I guess you, me and Momo slept over there

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Speaker 3: in the corner.

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Speaker 1: They come to visit sometimes they say, please, please come on,

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Speaker 1: please stop working. I say, I can't.

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Speaker 3: They slide the food tray through the slot.

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Speaker 2: You know where I got this idea, And I know

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Speaker 2: you haven't watched it, but the Watchmen.

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Speaker 1: I came across mentioned of that. I was like, why

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Speaker 1: is everybody talking about the Watchmen with the Tulsa race riot?

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Speaker 2: Or more appropriately, why is everyone all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: talking about the Tulsa massacre?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because the Watchmen really put it on the map

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Speaker 2: in a big way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That's great.

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Speaker 2: Utilize it quite well in the storyline, and I have

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Speaker 2: a recommendation for everyone, even though it is a marketing piece.

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Speaker 2: There's a thing in the Atlantic called the Massacre of

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Speaker 2: Black Wall Street, paid for by HBO, but it tells

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Speaker 2: the story in a comic book.

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Speaker 1: Form in the Atlantic. H Oh cool, very cool.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't notice it was a marketing piece until afterward.

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Speaker 2: But well, it's still.

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Speaker 1: Good sure, as long as the content's good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's cool and very well done.

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Speaker 1: So this is like, it's great that the Watchmen has

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Speaker 1: brought attention to this, yeah, because it wasn't until about

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, maybe the late nineties, really that

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Speaker 1: people started talking about this.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 1: And this event that we're going to talk about happened

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Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty one, and almost the week after, basically

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Speaker 1: the week after, everyone said, don't talk about this, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just forget it ever happened. We're's moving forward and we're

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Speaker 1: going to bury the past, literally buried people, the evidence,

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Speaker 1: all this stuff. It was buried, and people just acted

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Speaker 1: like nothing happened in Tulsa, Oklahoma for like eighty years.

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Speaker 1: And when you hear what we're about to talk about,

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Speaker 1: it's astounding that the community, both black and white, agreed

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Speaker 1: to just basically pretend this never happened, at least publicly

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Speaker 1: or civically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's hard to find some information still on

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Speaker 2: some of the key events and definitely some of the

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Speaker 2: key players.

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Speaker 1: Because a lot of them died of old age without

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Speaker 1: ever having been interviewed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no follow ups, Like, I mean, we'll get to it,

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Speaker 2: but a couple of the most key players.

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Speaker 3: It's like, this is kind of all we know, right.

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Speaker 1: I looked them up too, and it's like, what do

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Speaker 1: you mean you have no idea? Yeah, even who this

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Speaker 1: guy was let alone? You know, what became of him?

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Speaker 1: Or what do you mean? Like just no one kept track.

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Speaker 1: But that's how complete and total this cover up was.

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Speaker 1: It was a cover up. Yeah, so let's talk about

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Speaker 1: it first. Let's talk about Greenwood, which I was not

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Speaker 1: familiar with. But Greenwood was an affluent i guess almost

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Speaker 1: suburb adjacent to Tulsa, just north of Tulsa. And what

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Speaker 1: was odd about the fact that it was affluent is

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Speaker 1: that it was an all black community in you know,

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Speaker 1: the turn of the last century, and yet it was

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Speaker 1: one of the most affluent communities in the entire United States.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, now it's just part of Tulsa, like a neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: But back then just sort of like my neighborhood would

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Speaker 2: have been a suburb of Atlanta in the nineteen twenties,

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Speaker 2: even though I'm you know, five miles from downtown.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly.

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Speaker 2: But in nineteen twenty one, it was, like you said,

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Speaker 2: super affluent. They had a lot of I think there

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Speaker 2: were ten thousand black residents there. It's called the Black

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Speaker 2: Wall Street, like I mentioned, Yeah, and six hundred businesses.

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Speaker 2: There were fifteen African American millionaires living in this district.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, fifteen black millionaires in nineteen twenty one in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it wasn't I mean, like the whole area

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Speaker 1: was very well to do. There was like indoor plumbing,

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Speaker 1: the public schools there were like top not. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: in many cases Greenwood had a lot to boast about that.

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Speaker 1: Like the white areas in Tulsa just over the railroad tracks,

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Speaker 1: literally on the other side of the track, Yeah, didn't

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Speaker 1: have like like this is far better off than some

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Speaker 1: parts of white Tulsa.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, including one of the top African American surgeons, if

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Speaker 2: not the top in the country, endorsed by the doctor

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Speaker 2: Mayo himself.

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Speaker 1: The Mayo brothers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: This guy's doctor A C. Jackson, and he was one

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Speaker 2: of the people murdered in this massacre.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say there was a spoiler,

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Speaker 1: but I guess we've already kind of mentioned there's a

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Speaker 1: massacre coming, right, Yeah, so just to take a step

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Speaker 1: back even further, so it's pretty impressive to think of, like,

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Speaker 1: this is the Jim Crow era United States. Yes, this

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Speaker 1: is we're talking about. You know, this massacre took place

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Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty one, that's you know, fifty years after

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Speaker 1: the end of the Civil War. In many ways, the

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Speaker 1: Jim Crow era was just as bad as the Antebellum

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Speaker 1: slavery era. But so the idea to us today looking

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Speaker 1: back at this time of well, there's a black community

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Speaker 1: in Oklahoma that was one of the most affluent areas

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Speaker 1: in the country. It's kind of mind boggling. But if

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Speaker 1: you dig even deeper into how it was formed, it

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Speaker 1: almost you developed like a sense of pride in this

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Speaker 1: that these these people came together under these conditions and

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Speaker 1: not only survived, but like thrived and create a carved

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Speaker 1: out a place for themselves where like being black was

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Speaker 1: celebrated and where you could be proud and you took

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Speaker 1: pride in your home, in your children, and your children's

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Speaker 1: education and the healthcare that they were getting, in the

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Speaker 1: bus service, and the quality of the theater that you

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Speaker 1: went to. The confection area, the soda fountain, like that's

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Speaker 1: where you went to go like proposed marriage. Like. There

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Speaker 1: was this incredibly developed community. And one of the ways

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Speaker 1: that it was that it was able to flourish and

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Speaker 1: was able to kind of grow like this is because

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Speaker 1: the first thing that Oklahoma did when it became a state.

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Speaker 1: Remember it was originally a territory for forced relocation of

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Speaker 1: Native Americans and their African slaves to this area. When

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Speaker 1: it became a state, when white side came in and said, no,

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Speaker 1: we want this instead, we're going to take this territory

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Speaker 1: we gave you away and turn into stay. The first

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Speaker 1: piece of legislation they passed was that black people have

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Speaker 1: to stay in their own area. They can't marry outside

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Speaker 1: their race, they can't frequent white owned businesses, they have

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Speaker 1: to stay over here. And so the people of Greenwood said,

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Speaker 1: fine with us. We're going to pass a covenant that

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Speaker 1: says you have to be a black person to own

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Speaker 1: land here, or to even rent a place here, to

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Speaker 1: own a business here. It's a covenant restricted community, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to take a tremendous amount of pride and

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Speaker 1: in circulating our currency, our hard earned money that we're

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Speaker 1: making by working for these white businesses that we're not

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Speaker 1: allowed to patronize. We're going to go make our own

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Speaker 1: businesses over here, and we're going to support them with

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Speaker 1: our community, not only because we can't spend our money elsewhere,

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Speaker 1: but because we have a lot of pride in the

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Speaker 1: businesses that we've built over here. And so in this way,

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Speaker 1: Greenwood flourished because of and in spite of these Jim

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Speaker 1: Crow era laws that black people had to deal with

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Speaker 1: in Oklahoma at the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was Dave Ruz helped put us to

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Speaker 2: put this together, and some of the research he got

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Speaker 2: was from the book The Burning Colon, Massacre, Destruction and

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Speaker 2: the Tulsa Race Ride of nineteen twenty one by Tim

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Speaker 2: Madigan and various Stuteley points out that this was this

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Speaker 2: happened in Oklahoma, of course, but this kind of thing

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Speaker 2: was happening all over the country, not just in the

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Speaker 2: South or the whatever you call Oklahoma.

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Speaker 3: I guess it's the West Midwest, Yeah, but not Midwest.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think you just call it Oklahoma.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting some people there identify with the South, but

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Speaker 2: if you're from Georgia, Oklahoma it's not the South might

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Speaker 2: as well be you know, Montana.

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Speaker 1: I think of Oklahoma as like Native America. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then what it says on the license.

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Speaker 2: Plate, maybe it says middle of the country with a

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Speaker 2: with a little apostrophe.

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Speaker 1: And there's a picture of the Mountain DO logo on.

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Speaker 3: But this was happening everywhere. There were In nineteen nineteen,

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Speaker 3: there were two dozen.

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Speaker 2: Race riots in places like Chicago, Washington, d C.

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Speaker 3: Saint Louis.

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Speaker 2: In between the end of the Civil War and World

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Speaker 2: War Two, there were more than four thousand lynchings in

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Speaker 2: the United States, right, which is, you know, it's important

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Speaker 2: to point that out because what and we'll get into

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Speaker 2: the story here, but a lynching is what was the

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Speaker 2: aim of the white people of Oklahoma on this night.

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Speaker 1: Right, But I have seen also one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: I went to so much lengths to explain Greenwood, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in part was to because to show what was lost here,

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Speaker 1: but also to show there are a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who consider this massacre to have been carried out or

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Speaker 1: fueled in part by envy, right, because the people of

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Speaker 1: Greenmaw were so much better off in some instances than

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Speaker 1: the white people who were carrying out this massacre.

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Speaker 2: All right, maybe we should take a break, No, and

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Speaker 2: then we'll come back. Man, we got to start twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty with an argument over a break.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 3: All right, let's take a break.

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Speaker 2: We'll come back and talk a little bit about the

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Speaker 2: beginnings of what would end up being the Tulsa massacre.

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Speaker 2: All right, So we should talk about the key player here,

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Speaker 2: or players, And in this case it is Diamond.

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Speaker 1: Dick Rowland, one of the greatest names I've ever heard

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Speaker 1: in my life.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty good.

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Speaker 2: He was a shoeshine boy in Tulsa, and by all accounts,

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Speaker 2: he was smart. He was a handsome young guy, and

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Speaker 2: he was sort of a man about town.

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Speaker 3: He was popular with the.

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Speaker 1: Ladies, had the world on a string.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much.

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Speaker 2: And there was a girl named Sarah Page who ran

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Speaker 2: an elevator at the Drexel Building, a building that I

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Speaker 2: have walked past with my own two feet Oh wow.

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Speaker 3: Right, And she was white.

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Speaker 2: She was white, and you know, Dick thought she was cute,

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Speaker 2: and he would go down there and basically kind of

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Speaker 2: make up excuses to ride her elevator.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I saw something different than that, Oh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: saw that he was on the elevator because he was

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Speaker 1: he could use the segregated bathroom on the top floor

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Speaker 1: of the Drexel building only, so he had to ride

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Speaker 1: up the elevator up and down, okay, to get to

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Speaker 1: the bathroom, the closest bathroom for him to be able

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Speaker 1: to use. That's what I saw.

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Speaker 3: So you're saying he didn't fancy Sarah Paget, Oh No,

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: But I also saw a different explanation for why he

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Speaker 1: would have been on the elevator as often as he

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Speaker 1: supposedly was.

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Speaker 3: All Right, maybe it was both.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe he went to the bathroom a little more

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Speaker 1: often than he had to because they did, think Sarah Pegq.

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Speaker 1: Who knows. I'm not saying they necessarily contradict each other.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying I've seen other explanations as well. I

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Speaker 1: got you that sounded very lowyally for some reason, didn't it.

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Speaker 2: Man, Maybe this is the new YU in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: Matt Locke, Josh Clark Esquire.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a spree.

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Speaker 1: That's different than Esquire.

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Speaker 2: So at any rate, we should probably also point out that,

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Speaker 2: and you know, mixed race couples still get sideways looks

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Speaker 2: in some parts of America today, but certainly in nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenty one in Tulsa, Oklahoma, the idea of a black

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Speaker 2: man fancying a white woman.

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Speaker 1: He was even looking at a white woman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was not only untoward, but like a threat

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Speaker 2: worthy of a lynching.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: It was still that time in America where if you

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Speaker 2: made any advances, that was sort of the biggest fear

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Speaker 2: for some white men was black men coming in and

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Speaker 2: takingquote unquote their women.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which is character I are popularized thanks to Birth

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Speaker 1: of a Nation, which depicts the clan, you know, coming

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Speaker 1: to the aid of white women who were about to

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Speaker 1: be raped by maniacal black men who just could couldn't

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Speaker 1: help themselves. They were just so in love with white

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Speaker 1: women that they just had to rape. That was just

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Speaker 1: what black guys did. That was the view of black

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Speaker 1: guys at the time, right, that that's just how it was.

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Speaker 1: So to white people, like you kept an eye out

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Speaker 1: for that, Like when you saw a black man and

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Speaker 1: there's a white woman over there, you wanted to make

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Speaker 1: sure that he wasn't going to you know, rapeer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the mentality that people were walking around with

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Speaker 1: back then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that movie was actually partially shot in my old

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Speaker 2: neighborhood in LA.

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Speaker 1: You have a lot to do with this episode.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's just weird to think about birth of a nation,

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Speaker 2: you know, being shot in Los Feeless, which is this

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Speaker 2: very like kind of hip community and on the east

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Speaker 2: side of Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, on May thirtieth, nineteen twenty one, Dick Roland

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Speaker 2: went into that elevator to either flirt or use the

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Speaker 2: restroom or both. And what I saw was that the

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Speaker 2: It was well known that the third floor landing did

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Speaker 2: not land flush with the threshold, and supposedly this is why,

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Speaker 2: as the story goes, Dick Roland tripped when he was

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Speaker 2: getting onto the elevator. So maybe if that bathroom was

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Speaker 2: on the third floor, that could make sense.

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Speaker 1: I heard top floor. I don't know how many floors

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Speaker 1: of the dot I don't remember. Actually, was it more than three?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't remember. Actually, I just I

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Speaker 1: don't think they'd call a building the something building if

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Speaker 1: it only has three floors, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: You're probably right, that's like an eight plus floor like Moniker.

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Speaker 2: I think you're probably right. But at any rate, he

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Speaker 2: gets on the elevator. As the story goes, stumbles getting

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Speaker 2: on and kind of falls forward and grabs her arm,

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Speaker 2: which was kind of the first thing that he could

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Speaker 2: get a hold of from falling. As the story goes,

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Speaker 2: she started beating him over the head with her purse

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Speaker 2: because I guess it's an old Looney Tunes cartoon and

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Speaker 2: she didn't have a rolling pins And the elevator opened.

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Speaker 2: On the ground floor, people see this sort of scuffle

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Speaker 2: going on, or what appears to be a scuffle. She

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Speaker 2: allegedly cries out that she had been assaulted, and people

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Speaker 2: on the first floor called the police as Dick flees

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Speaker 2: on foot.

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Speaker 1: Right takes off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, no one knows exactly how this

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Speaker 2: all went down.

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Speaker 1: No one even knows exactly who Diamond Dick Roland.

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Speaker 2: Was or Sarah Page. Yeah, for that matter, always are. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: all we found out what was that she was an orphan.

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Speaker 2: She could have been a young at sixteen. I've seen

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Speaker 2: reports of seventeen and was working to pay her way

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Speaker 2: through business college.

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Speaker 1: And that's what the Tulsa Tribune reported like the day after.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I saw that elsewhere, But I also saw

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Speaker 2: like literally nothing else about her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I couldn't find anything.

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Speaker 1: And then Dick Roland. They think that he might have

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Speaker 1: possibly been named Jimmy Jones, right, I saw that too,

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Speaker 1: and who was raised by his grandparents whose last name

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Speaker 1: was Roland, so he took their name. And there is

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Speaker 1: a guy who would have matched his birth date named

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Jones that they found buried in Tulsa, but he

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Speaker 1: died like two months before these events took place, so

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Speaker 1: it couldn't have possibly been him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there were a few years apart too, I think, Right,

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Speaker 3: how was it? Yeah, okay, but it's unbelievable that so

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Speaker 3: much of this is lost to history.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, these two people who set off this one of

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Speaker 1: the most despicable events that it's ever taken place in

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Speaker 1: this country's history just vanish almost after this point. It's

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Speaker 1: just you guys played your role. Now everyone else is

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Speaker 1: going to step in.

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Speaker 2: So Dick goes home his mom, I guess. He tells

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Speaker 2: his mom what happened, and she obviously was pretty scared

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Speaker 2: right away because she knew probably what this meant. But

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Speaker 2: for that night, at least, nothing really happened. The next day,

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Speaker 2: he goes out to meet up with some friends and

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Speaker 2: the Tulsa police pull up and take him in.

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Speaker 3: Basically on an assault charge.

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Speaker 1: Right, which is I don't know why they didn't go

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Speaker 1: pick him up at home or whatever, but they I

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Speaker 1: also read somewhere that they had arrested him on the spot.

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Speaker 1: But what you're you're recounting matches what I've seen most right, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But that's that's history, especially suppressed history.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: One person writes, and then somebody else reports, and then

385
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Speaker 1: enough people report it, and then that's.

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Speaker 3: Fact exactly, that's the story.

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Speaker 1: But so either way he came into police custody, we

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Speaker 1: know that is the way it is. And then this

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Speaker 1: is like a white sheriff named William Sullivan.

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Speaker 3: I think, right, William McCullough.

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Speaker 1: McCullough I was very close.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And when you're starting to read the story, you

393
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Speaker 2: hear about this, you know, white mustache sheriff and immediately think,

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Speaker 2: oh boy, this guy's in trouble.

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Speaker 1: Well, this guy had replaced the last guy that it

396
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Speaker 1: was trouble, right, who had allowed a white mob to

397
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Speaker 1: take an arrested black man out of his custody and

398
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Speaker 1: lynch him.

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Speaker 3: Oh it says here it was a white person. Is

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Speaker 3: that not true?

401
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Speaker 1: I think that's wrong. Oh, okay, either way, he let

402
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Speaker 1: somebody be lynched by an angry mob.

403
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Speaker 2: Yeah, which I thought for sure Sheriff McCullough was going

404
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Speaker 2: to do. But apparently McCullough was intent on kind of

405
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Speaker 2: going by the book.

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Speaker 1: He followed the Hectate school of sheriffing. Do you know

407
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Speaker 1: what that from to kill a mockingbird?

408
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Speaker 3: Oh?

409
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Speaker 2: Right, right, which was, hey, let's let the law play out,

410
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Speaker 2: let's give him a stay in court. There will be

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Speaker 2: no lynchings on my watch.

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Speaker 1: Right, So he took Diamond Dick up to a room

413
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Speaker 1: on an upper floor. The only way to get there

414
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Speaker 1: was this one staircase, so he basically strategically hit him out,

415
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 1: went down to this white crowd and said, there's not

416
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Speaker 1: going to be any lynching today, Like Chuck said, The

417
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: thing is, we've left out a really important point here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like why was there a white crowd to begin with? Right? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There is a newspaper that was called the Tulsa Tribune

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Speaker 1: that ran an article about Sarah Page being assaulted. This

421
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Speaker 1: is a news article and the headline for said news

422
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Speaker 1: article was nab negro for attacking girl and elevator. Not

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Speaker 1: people might nab negro for attacking girl in elevator. Police

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Speaker 1: worried white mob. Might it's nab like go do this? Yes,

425
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Speaker 1: that was the headline for the article. The editorial took

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Speaker 1: it even a step further. And this is the day

427
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Speaker 1: after this event took place.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the editorial was to Lynch Negro tonight.

429
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Speaker 2: And I gotta say, whoever's writing these headlines, it's inflammatory,

430
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Speaker 2: of course, but they also don't make much sense.

431
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're of poor construction.

432
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Speaker 2: They're very poor construction. And I went to try and

433
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Speaker 2: find the microfilm of this, and I think the first

434
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 2: one is available, but blurry.

435
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Speaker 3: The second one.

436
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Speaker 2: The only copy of that paper they have is a

437
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Speaker 2: front page with an article cut out that scanned in

438
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Speaker 2: and everyone's like, it must have this must have been

439
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 2: that editorial, But I literally couldn't find any you know,

440
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Speaker 2: because I was kind of curious to read just how

441
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Speaker 2: poor of a writer this person was and get you know,

442
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Speaker 2: probably what would not have been accurate details.

443
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Speaker 1: No, no, so no, they I mean they basically reported

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Speaker 1: in the first one, in the actual article that her

445
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 1: clothes had been torn at. They really characterized it.

446
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 3: Like he attacked her, like a sexual assault, right exactly.

447
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,959
Speaker 1: And then the second one is just basically like an

448
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: all out editorial calling for Dick Rowland's lynching. Yeah, this

449
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 1: is in the paper. So the local newspaper has inflamed

450
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: the white citizenry into basically calling them to action, to

451
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,479
Speaker 1: go do something about this. And they all show up

452
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: at the courthouse to demand that Sheriff McCullough hand over

453
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,719
Speaker 1: Dick Roland to them so they can go lynch him.

454
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: And he says, yeah, no, back off, no. But so

455
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,360
Speaker 1: before but I think he tells him like, no, I'm

456
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: not I'm not doing that like you said. But before

457
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: the crowd disperses, a second group comes and it's actually

458
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: a group of World War One veterans from Greenwood who

459
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: had found out that this white mob was going to

460
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,239
Speaker 1: lynch Dick Roland. And they were like, no, no, they're not.

461
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 1: We're going to go see to it that doesn't happen.

462
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there were hundreds of w W One veterans,

463
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 2: Black veterans in Greenwood. They were people who fought for

464
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 2: this country. And it's sort of that familiar despicable story,

465
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 2: shed blood on European soil, come back home to America

466
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 2: and you're still a second class citizen. They had petition

467
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 2: to and this is just sort of a sidebar. The

468
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 2: petition to walk in the Memorial Day Parade for many

469
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: years and were always refused. And May thirtieth was Memorial Day,

470
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: and that that same year they had once again said

471
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 2: can we participate in the Memorial Day Parade as veterans?

472
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 2: They say, no, we're only going to honor the white veterans.

473
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 3: No.

474
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 1: I think they wanted to be integrated in the parade

475
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: with the white veterans, just as World War One veterans

476
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: marching together. And they said, no, whites only, you can

477
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 1: march by yourself. Oh really, And when they did march,

478
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: they were taunted and jeered at, oh gotcha by the

479
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: people who are watching the parade.

480
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: So these are the people that got guns and came

481
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: down there and said not on our watch.

482
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 3: We're not going to let this happen.

483
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 2: And it kind of plays out as a film, you know,

484
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: from the sounds of it is like these cars pull

485
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 2: in and part the crowd, and these black veterans get

486
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 2: out with their guns and they're like, no, you're not

487
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: taking this kid, this is not going to happen.

488
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 3: Right.

489
00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: So apparently Sheriff McCullough was able to to convince the

490
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: Greenwood World War One veterans who showed up that he

491
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: wasn't going to hand over dick roll and that he's

492
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: going to protect a role, and then they should probably

493
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: just go he's gonna get rid of this white crowd too,

494
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: But don't worry. I'm I'm not like the old sheriff.

495
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

496
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: And there's about seventy five armed men. Yeah, and I

497
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: drive it home, like, how many people.

498
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 1: I read that there were? I saw a thousands somewhere

499
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: of white people of white people at the courthouse, like

500
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,719
Speaker 1: it was just this calling for a lynching.

501
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 3: Yeah it was. They were heavily outmanned.

502
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, but seventy five, the seventy five black veterans showed

503
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: up in the midst of this. Let's even say it's

504
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: just a thousand, let's even say it's like five hundred

505
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: people calling for a lynching. Yeah, and you're seventy five

506
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: black men showing up armed saying like no, it's not happening.

507
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: Just pretty courageous stuff, right.

508
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

509
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 1: So before they can leave or as they're leaving, it's

510
00:25:54,760 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: actually not clear what this event name gets its name from.

511
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: Happens what you would call a race riot.

512
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it looked like It might have been

513
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 2: on the way to being a scene that the sheriff

514
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 2: managed successfully. They might have been on the way out

515
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: that white crowd might have dispersed if not for this

516
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: one incident.

517
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: And even if we did know, you know, just beat

518
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: by beat, the history of this, you still wouldn't be

519
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: able to say what would have happened. Yeah, exactly, that

520
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 1: is a possible outcome. There was a there was an

521
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: older white man who demanded that one of these black

522
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: veterans give him his gun, and the black veterans said, no,

523
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that, and the old white

524
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: man went to go grab it, and the gun went off,

525
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: and both sides just started shooting at one another.

526
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what triggered it. It was chaos. There was

527
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 3: a hail of bullets.

528
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: People on both sides just started, you know, dropping dead

529
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 2: from the bullets flying, and it became a full on

530
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: war scene basically for the next couple of days.

531
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: Right.

532
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: Okay, So at that point, the black veterans are like,

533
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: we really should get out of here.

534
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. They leave toward Greenwood.

535
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: Toward Greenwood, which is their home. They're going back to

536
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: their homes, and along the way, some of them, like

537
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: kind of drop back and like stake out positions and

538
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: start sniping at the white rioters who are coming after them.

539
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: And at that point they go further back into Greenwood.

540
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: And by this time it's like the early morning hours

541
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: of I believe June first, right.

542
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 3: I don't think it was the early morning at that point.

543
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: It was like midnight. I mean like midnight one something

544
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: like that.

545
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's during the night time.

546
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 2: And this is when the white people started breaking into

547
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: the hardware stores and looting businesses to get weapons.

548
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

549
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: Because here's the thing. So that's Sheriff McCullough, who you're

550
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, okay, as far as this whole

551
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: story goes, that's not so bad. Like he at least

552
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: tried now. The moment this race riot happened and the

553
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: black veterans took off back for Greenwood, he started deputizing

554
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: white rioters, handing out guns and ammunition and basically saying,

555
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: go get them, Go get those guys. Yeah, And rather

556
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: than saying like this is not your job, this my responsibility.

557
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: I'll go home. I'm going to go handle this, he

558
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: enlisted the help of these people who were involved in

559
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: this riot on the white side and at that point

560
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: any semblance of what you would call a race riot

561
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: ended and what became a revenge massacre just started. So

562
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: people call this the Tulsa race riot, and I think

563
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: maybe a tenth of it qualifies as a race riot,

564
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: and the rest it just should be called the Tulsa massacre.

565
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what happens is, like you said, some of

566
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: these veterans get staked out in strategic positions on rooftops

567
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 2: and behind houses, behind cars. The White Army, for lack

568
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 2: of a better word, is advancing into Greenwood. They start

569
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: setting fires at these strategic locations to flesh out these snipers,

570
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 2: and then they just start burning everything, basically setting fire

571
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: to every house in every business to burn down Greenwood.

572
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: Well, I think also about for about the five or

573
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: about four or five hours from the time where they

574
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: managed to flush the snipers out until about five in

575
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: the morning, they were quietly taking up positions inside Greenwood,

576
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: and then a whistle blew at about five am and

577
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: all of them just came out from their positions and

578
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: then they just went berserk. It was a charge, a

579
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: full on military coordinated assault on Greenwood. And so this

580
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: assault involved driving people out of their homes at gunpoint

581
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: any resistance that people were shot on site. There were

582
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: people who were shot who weren't offering resistance. There was

583
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: a story about an elderly couple who were kneeling in

584
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: their house praying and they were both executed by these

585
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: white mobsters. Yeah, in their home.

586
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 3: People were burned alive.

587
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, houses and people doused with kerosene and burned alive.

588
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: There was another story of a blind beggar who was

589
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: tied to a car and dragged through the streets.

590
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 3: I mean, it was just bedlam.

591
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: And Watchmen actually gets pretty graphic in how they depict this,

592
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: even though it's an alternate history show, just like the

593
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: movie in the graphic novel where they I think they

594
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: did pretty decent justice. They didn't follow the origin story

595
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: of how it started, but it just placed heavily into

596
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: the plotline, right, Yeah.

597
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, should we take another break? Sure? All right, let's

598
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 3: take another break and we'll tell you what happened from here.

599
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,239
Speaker 1: Okay, So we actually took a commercial break in the

600
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: midst of a massacre. So the the thing is like

601
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: people are being driven out of their houses and shot

602
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: in some cases, but more often than not, they're being

603
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: like just flushed out. But no house, no building, no business,

604
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: no nothing was spared. They're in the intent of these

605
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: these white terrorists. There's really no other name for him.

606
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: Was to burn down Greenwood.

607
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we kept at bay.

608
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. They said, do not come in here, like the

609
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: rioters will kill you. Yeah, do you just stay away.

610
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: They burned Greenwood to the ground. Thirty five blocks, thirty

611
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: five blocks. Do you know how many blocks that is?

612
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: That's a lot of blocks.

613
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: Think about how many blocks is thirty five blocks, and

614
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: then add like ten, because I guarantee your conception is

615
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: less than actually thirty five blocks. That is a lot

616
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: of blocks of buildings burned to the ground. People killed

617
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: in their front yards, including doctor Andrew C. Jackson, the

618
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: famous surgeon, shot like a dog in his own front

619
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: yard in the chest. There's a picture of him.

620
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 2: Twelve hundred homes, churches, schools, hospital, library. I think I

621
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 2: mentioned there were six hundred businesses total. They were all torched,

622
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: just torch.

623
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: There were six people who owned airplanes. They were that

624
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: wealthy in Greenwood.

625
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

626
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: Their airplanes were stolen by the rioters and used to

627
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: drop bombs, dynamite, nitroglycerin, fire, and then there was also

628
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: accusations the National Guard was helping coordinate this too.

629
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, the National Guard was called in and when they

630
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: got there, by all accounts, they did not try to

631
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 2: help quell the riot. They more acted as helping to arrest.

632
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 3: Blackma that's just historical facts.

633
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they were bringing in I mean, they were

634
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: killing people for sure, but they were also arresting black men.

635
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 2: The women and children fled. I think six thousand people

636
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: were arrested, and the women and children fled toward the woods,

637
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 2: basically like leaving behind everything they owned.

638
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: Who are homeless. There was ten thousand people who lived

639
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: in Greenwood at the time, and after this one night,

640
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: this orgy of like violence, there were like nine thousand

641
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: left homeless and hundreds dead.

642
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, And apparently back to the National Guard, they said

643
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: that they brought in planes just to spot fires and

644
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 2: coordinate ground security. But there are reports from people there

645
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: that said that they were actually shooting at people on

646
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: the ground.

647
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: Say that that's a rumor. Yeah, even setting that aside,

648
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: the National Guard didn't come in and quell anything. They

649
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: just started arresting and detaining the victims of this massacre.

650
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: That was the role that they played in this situation.

651
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 3: That's right.

652
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 2: So the whole thing culminates with I mean, in the end,

653
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 2: it's really hard to get the amount of people killed.

654
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: I think the official report says thirty five black people.

655
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: It's certainly way more than that. I've seen all the

656
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: way up to three hundred.

657
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: That's what I saw, is almost across the boards. Three hundred.

658
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that again might be one of those things that

659
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: everyone just sort of settled on a number. But it

660
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: was not thirty five people, to be sure.

661
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: No, definitely not. And so like as the sun comes

662
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 1: up the day after I think June first, Green would

663
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: burn to the ground, there's people hiding in the woods.

664
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: Thousands and thousands of former affluent residents of this black

665
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: community homeless, are now homeless. Well, no, they're not homeless

666
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: because the National Guards very kindly put them into tention

667
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:55,959
Speaker 1: centers at the fairgrounds.

668
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 3: That doesn't qualify as a home right.

669
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: That's my point, yeah, is that it's not a home right.

670
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: They're kept detained at the fair grounds for months. I

671
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: saw that in some cases most of them had to

672
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: endure the winter. This happened in May. Yeah, these people

673
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: were still a lot of them kept in detention camps

674
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: at the fair grounds through the winter.

675
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, Tulsa winters and summers are both tough.

676
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: They were kept in detention camps because white rioters burn

677
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: their town to the ground.

678
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this was in June, so right in the math.

679
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: Right, so yeah, it was June. I guess it was

680
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: the end of May. So the way that you got

681
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: out of these detention centers was your white employer came

682
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: and vouched for you and said, this person works for me.

683
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: I need them back. Yeah, please let them go. That's

684
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: how you got out.

685
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

686
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: So in the aftermath, no one was arrested, There were

687
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: no prosecutions.

688
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: No, no, I'm sorry, Chuck. There was a grand jury

689
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: that was sat convened. They indicated twenty people. All of

690
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 1: them were black. Well none, we're white.

691
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I meant on the white side.

692
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: Okay.

693
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,280
Speaker 2: There were in today's dollars between fifty and a hivehundred

694
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: million dollars worth of damage everywhere I look, said. The

695
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: only organization that really helped, and they really helped was

696
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: the American Red Cross, super Brave and did a whole lot.

697
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 2: And I also saw where you know, it wasn't the

698
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: entire city of Tulsa, Apparently there were some white communities

699
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 2: that reached out in the aftermask, of course, to help

700
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: with the recovery efforts to take people in. So we

701
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: don't want to paint the entire town as doing the

702
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: wrong thing. Apparently some people did step up.

703
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean, just nothing is that literally black and white? Yeah,

704
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, like there's always shades of gray in that situation,

705
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: in any situation.

706
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Greenwood came back. They it's probably not a surprise,

707
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 2: but the insurance companies had it classified very quickly as

708
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: a riot instead of just a violent massacre because that

709
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 2: means they wouldn't have to compensate people for their homes

710
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 2: being businesses being burned to the ground.

711
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: Right, because if they were rioting, then they were culpable

712
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: for the damage. And that insurance company went, yeah, so

713
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 1: also despicable. The county commission said, no, we're not accepting

714
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: any outside donations, will take care of our own, and

715
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: then didn't didn't follow through on that at all. So

716
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: there were no funds paid to the Greenwood people.

717
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 3: And people were trying to right as.

718
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 1: Reparations or to even help them rebuild, and the county commission,

719
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: I guess proposed at one point that they would handle

720
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: us by buying the land for like a fraction of

721
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: its market value and then auctioning it off to the

722
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: high spider.

723
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 3: That was one proposal, an old scam.

724
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: And they also said, well, you know what, just to

725
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: make sure that this doesn't happen again, we're going to

726
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: establish a new building code for Greenwood. No building can

727
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: be rebuilt unless it's built with fireproof bricks. And then

728
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: they went to the fireproof brick producers and said, do

729
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: not sell any materials to the black people of Greenwood.

730
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: So despite this, they managed to rebuild in about five years. Astoundingly,

731
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: the people whose houses in town was burned to the

732
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: ground came back and rebuilt. And from just about everything

733
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: I read, Greenwood was actually better, more prosperous, and more

734
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 1: affluent from the second time around. Then it was even

735
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: the first, and it was pretty affluent the first time.

736
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: And Chuck, we said, like hundreds of people were killed, right, yes,

737
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 1: so get this. Funerals were forbidden, like you weren't allowed

738
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: to have a funeral. That's how covered up this thing became.

739
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons we will never know how

740
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: many people were killed is because the people who were

741
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: killed were taken off and dumped in the river, or

742
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: stashed in coal mines or buried in mass unmarked graves.

743
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 2: Well, they think they found two of those, like a

744
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 2: month ago. Yeah, they were archaeologists in Tulsa and this

745
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 2: was from Time magazine from Jasmine Aguilera. They have identified

746
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: two sites that they thought were that they think now

747
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: are mass graves. And they've been looking since I think

748
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 2: two thousand and one because they knew people, you know,

749
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 2: there were reports of mass graves, and so archaeologists have

750
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 2: been looking. In twenty eighteen, they started like a legit

751
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 2: investigation and they think that they have found one, at

752
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 2: least one, maybe two of these sites.

753
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 3: But even which is in a cemetery ironically, yeah.

754
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: I saw that. But even this whole thing is like

755
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: fairly new. It wasn't like until the late nineties that

756
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: people even started talking about this.

757
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, nineteen ninety seven was when the state of

758
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 2: Oklahoma introduced a bill. And this was after just not

759
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 2: talking about it. No, in the black community, they would

760
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 2: talk about it in stories and whispers. The white community

761
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 2: just buried it and the state of Oklahoma just didn't

762
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 2: acknowledge it.

763
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. The last thing I saw about it was. The

764
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: Tulsa Tribune ran another editorial on like June fourth, a

765
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: few days after, basically saying.

766
00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 3: Like lynching failed, thank you.

767
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: No, they said thank you to the police and all

768
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: the white citizens who cleaned up Tulsa by getting rid

769
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: of Greenwood. It's actually way worse than what I just depicted,

770
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: but I couldn't possibly bring myself to read it verbatim.

771
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just vile. Yeah, what it says, it's really bad.

772
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 2: But in ninety seven, this is when they introduced a

773
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: bill for reparations and creation of the Tulsa Race Riot Commission.

774
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: And that report was released in two thousand and one,

775
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: and it did hold police and public officials to blame,

776
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 2: but it didn't do anything. Basically, there were no reparations.

777
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,959
Speaker 2: As for Dick Roland, the case was the actual case,

778
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 2: remember the case of the assault that was dismissed in September.

779
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 2: Apparently Sarah Page didn't want to press forward with charges

780
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 2: and she's lost the time. He supposedly immediately moved to

781
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: Kansas City maybe and no one else really knows anything

782
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: else about him.

783
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: Huh. That's just so surprising.

784
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and if not for the watchmen, coming out.

785
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: This might still be a fairly buried story outside of Oklahoma.

786
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 2: Yeah right, it's really brought a lot of attention to it.

787
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and good for them for doing that. Yeah. So

788
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: one of the things that I saw about Greenwood itself

789
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: was that it kept prospering and flourishing for decades after this,

790
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: until about the sixties. And one of the reasons I

791
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 1: saw that explained why not just Greenwood, but a lot

792
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: of black areas started to decline in the sixties was

793
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 1: a byproduct of integration. Was that you could, as a

794
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: black person in America, spend your black dollar at a

795
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: white owned business now, right, And like they didn't teach

796
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: us that in public school, like that, this was a

797
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: byproduct of it. But as a result, these black owned

798
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: businesses started to decline more and more and more, and

799
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: so Greenwood wasn't as prosperous as it was before. But

800
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: the death blow, the death blow is that remember in

801
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: our Interstates episode where in a lot of the poorer areas,

802
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: lot of the areas of color, that that's where they

803
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: built the highways. I saw that they built I two

804
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: for four right through Greenwood.

805
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tulsa is an interesting place I spent a few

806
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 2: weeks there a few years ago. Yeah, and it's, uh,

807
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 2: it's interesting because it's got this old oil money. Yeah, neighborhoods,

808
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 2: some of the most amazing estates and houses I've ever seen.

809
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 2: It's got some very poor communities, a lot of meth problems.

810
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting place.

811
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: Sounds like it. Yeah, Well that's a Tulsa for you.

812
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 2: And you know what, I spent a few weeks there

813
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 2: in this neighborhood and I didn't know anything about it.

814
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: I didn't Maybe there is a memorial or something, but

815
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 2: I didn't notice it. I'm not saying there isn't one,

816
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 2: but I didn't see it.

817
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 1: So, you know, Desmond tou too Sure who helped bring

818
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: about just the changeover from apartheid to reconciliation.

819
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 3: I love his work.

820
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: He came, Yeah, a big fan. He came to to

821
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: Tulsa basically said, you guys are sitting on a powder

822
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: keg here, like when this not very long ago, I

823
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: think we were in the nineties, maybe even in the

824
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: two thousands, just basically saying like you can't how could

825
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: you possibly heal when you still have bodies in on

826
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: mark graves? Like no one's talking about this still. I

827
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: believe there is a park that they found, like a

828
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: reconciliation park or something like that, but it sounds like

829
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: there's still a ways to go. Yeah, I won't it

830
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 1: be ironic that it was Watchman that basically is forcing

831
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: this issue to be discussed.

832
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 3: Be pretty ironic.

833
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, the power of comic books right, well, not even TV,

834
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: I guess.

835
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: Of graphic novels. Yes, So if you want to know

836
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: more about the Tulsa massacre also known as the Tulsa

837
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: Race Riot of nineteen twenty one, there's a lot for

838
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: you to go read, thankfully, and you should just type

839
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: that into your favorite search bar. Since I said that,

840
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail.

841
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 2: Hey guys, this email is mostly for Chuck. I need

842
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 2: to get something off my chest and clear some things

843
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 2: up about my involvement with your pronunciation of Carrie.

844
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 3: Oh eyes, Elvis, Elvis.

845
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 2: Sometime over the summer, I made a comment in the

846
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 2: corrections corner threat a movie crush on the Facebook page

847
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 2: where you were pronouncing Carrie l wise l wise, I

848
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 2: posted I had read on I read at Ama, his

849
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 2: name sounds like Elvis, But what I meant to say

850
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 2: was it rhymes with Elvis.

851
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: Is that why you said Carrie Elvis?

852
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, it's because of Eli. He says this.

853
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 2: When I finally heard my name pop up in the podcast,

854
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 2: I was thrilled and couldn't wait to hear your reaction.

855
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 2: Not only did my comment get understandably misunderstood, but I've

856
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: heard your reference to comment two or three times now

857
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 2: and continue to correct yourself, saying Elvis, most recently on

858
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 2: the Andre the Giant Live episode parenthetical. Josh said it right,

859
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: I try to issue another I tried to issue another

860
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 2: comment immediately afterward to clear the air, but it was

861
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 2: too late. You discontinued corrections corner I did. I was

862
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: gonna do that on Movie Crush, and it just became

863
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 2: like you said this wrong and your inflection and I was.

864
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: Like, you said Kubrick was great. He was very great.

865
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:07,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

866
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 2: I was a minute, as like movie corrections, but you

867
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 2: know how it goes.

868
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 3: So I just said, no more of this.

869
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 2: You don't understand how something like this, something as small,

870
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 2: has been tearing me apart inside every time I hear

871
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 2: you reference it. There's one thing worse than giving someone

872
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 2: bad information, it's having them proliferate that information out in

873
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 2: the world, in this case to millions of well.

874
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 1: Not millions of people, trillions.

875
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 2: I just want to apologize officially for correcting you on

876
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 2: something so silly. And any way you want to say

877
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,280
Speaker 2: the name is fine by me as long as it's

878
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 2: what do you say?

879
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:38,439
Speaker 1: Elvis?

880
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 3: Ellis?

881
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: I think Elvis. Thanks for the decadeh No, Now Eli's

882
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: got in my.

883
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 3: Head too, Thanks for the decade of great content. I'll

884
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 3: see you both in January and Seattle for my third

885
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 3: live show. Nice, all the best, Eli.

886
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: It's Eli's third live show birthday.

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00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 3: And I think it's pronounced el I.

888
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: Oh, it could be Ellie could be. Yeah, we're just

889
00:45:59,239 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: gonna go with you.

890
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 3: I think Ellie's c O l I E.

891
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: It could be. I think Ellie Golding is something different

892
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: than that, isn't it.

893
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 3: I don't know who is that or does.

894
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: She pronounce her name Eli?

895
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 3: I don't know who that is.

896
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: You do too, you've heard her pop songs before when

897
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: you're working out. Okay, if you want to get in

898
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: touch with this like Eli did to let us know

899
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: we're saying something wrong because of you, well you can

900
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: get in touch with this by going on to stuff

901
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: youshould know dot com, and you can also send us

902
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: an email send it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio

903
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: dot com.

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00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

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00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,839
Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.