Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
Speaker 1: My guest today is Ron Stone. I've been there at
Speaker 1: the birth of rock and roll. Still a manager today, Ron,
Speaker 1: Great to have you hi. How are you okay? How
Speaker 1: did you meet David geffin? How did I meet David Geffen? Okay?
Speaker 1: So well. The precursor to that is that I grew
Speaker 1: up in the Bronx with Elliott Roberts. Wait, wait, you
Speaker 1: knew Elliott Roberts. I've known him since I was eleven
Speaker 1: years old. How did you meet you know, the dearly
Speaker 1: departed Elliott when he was Elliot Rabinowitz, that's right, and
Speaker 1: when I was somebody else also, I don't think so
Speaker 1: oh I was really Won't were you? I thought you
Speaker 1: were lived Stone? Jewish name. No, No, I made up Okay,
Speaker 1: there there's a lot of things here. I made up
Speaker 1: the name Stone because I was when I was in
Speaker 1: law school, I was modeling to pay for to pay
Speaker 1: for law schools. So they changed my name to Stone.
Speaker 1: And you're not going to tell us what your original
Speaker 1: name was. No, the police will get me. Okay, this
Speaker 1: protection program like about that one time? I didn't really
Speaker 1: know that anyway. So Elliot and I, um, we used
Speaker 1: to hang out on Fordham Road in the Bronx in
Speaker 1: a in an ice cream parlor called Jaan's. Okay cream
Speaker 1: any good? I don't know. We never went an uh
Speaker 1: so uh And you know we would stand on the
Speaker 1: corner and sing old rock and roll songs. And let's
Speaker 1: start there. What'd your father do for a living? Your mother?
Speaker 1: My father was a shoe salesman and a Russian immigrant,
Speaker 1: and my mother worked at some place in the garment district.
Speaker 1: And how many kids in the so called Stone family?
Speaker 1: I think I have an older brother. Is he still
Speaker 1: with us? I have no idea. Well, I haven't spoken
Speaker 1: to him for twenty five years. Did you have an argument?
Speaker 1: He kind of dropped you get me into trouble? He
Speaker 1: kind of dropped my there on me. You know, she
Speaker 1: was living in New York and they got into a
Speaker 1: big bruhaha, and he shipped her out to California and
Speaker 1: she was in her eighties and I took care of
Speaker 1: her until she was ninety four when she passed away. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you also haven't spoken to him since then? Okay,
Speaker 1: that's by your choice or his choice mine. Okay, So
Speaker 1: you meet Elliott Rabinowitch. You're hanging out at the ice
Speaker 1: cream parlor. Yes, and then you know I I went
Speaker 1: to law school and Elliot and I went. I thought
Speaker 1: you dropped out of law school. I didn't say I finished.
Speaker 1: Did finished? Where did you go to college? I went
Speaker 1: to in New Jersey, to Fairly Dickinson University, or they
Speaker 1: called it fairly ridiculous. I was not going to say
Speaker 1: that I lived in the Bronx. They made fun of
Speaker 1: me for going to college in the first place. Okay,
Speaker 1: but I don't really know where it is in New Jersey,
Speaker 1: New Jersey, Okay, So you lived at home. I lived
Speaker 1: in the city and I went by motorcycle across the
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Bridge for three years in fucking winter. Like what
Speaker 1: kind of motorcycle Honda for fifty was? And did you
Speaker 1: ever dump it? You ever had an accident twice and
Speaker 1: any injury? No? I broke the motorcycle. Okay, well, at
Speaker 1: least not you. Okay, So you're going to, uh, what's
Speaker 1: your Josie to Fairly Dickinson and then you're gonna go
Speaker 1: to law school. Yes, continue, So I went to Brooklyn
Speaker 1: Law School for about a year and they objected to
Speaker 1: the fact that the one I didn't I didn't wear
Speaker 1: the attire that was required. Well, what year are we in?
Speaker 1: Sixty five? Okay? So way to college? Okay, so the
Speaker 1: revolution has already happened. So yes, And I've discovered psychedelic
Speaker 1: drugs at exactly the wrong time in my life. So
Speaker 1: I was my wife was working and putting me through.
Speaker 1: I was married at that point. For well, I know
Speaker 1: you've been married how many? How long? Fifty four years?
Speaker 1: And how old were you when you got married? Twenty one?
Speaker 1: And how old was she? Nineteen? How long did you
Speaker 1: know each other before you got married? Three years? So
Speaker 1: you met her when she was in high school and
Speaker 1: you just started college? Yes, And and she lived in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles and I lived in New York, and I
Speaker 1: fell in love with her the first time I saw
Speaker 1: her drive up in her nine powder blue Chevy convertible
Speaker 1: with the white top and white leather. Okay, Since she
Speaker 1: lived in l A. And we know each other, how
Speaker 1: did you intersect with her? How did you actually meet her?
Speaker 1: She was the first girl I ever met in California? Okay,
Speaker 1: what were you doing in California? I came out to
Speaker 1: buy drugs to pay for my way in college, okay,
Speaker 1: and you mess in those days. In those days, this
Speaker 1: is the truth. We we'd drive out, we'd fill up
Speaker 1: our trunk for you know, to two point two uh
Speaker 1: uh pounds of pounds of Mexican marijuana. We'd fill up
Speaker 1: the trunk. And by the way, I never got high
Speaker 1: in high school or college because I was an athlete.
Speaker 1: I was a pole vaulter. But my neighborhood, what is
Speaker 1: your highest height? Actually I was four inches below the
Speaker 1: the world record at one point, I was fifteen six.
Speaker 1: Fifteen six, that's pretty good. In high school, that was
Speaker 1: that with fiberglass poles. No see, I had. I had
Speaker 1: such an incredible coach that he thought it was a
Speaker 1: fad that was not gonna last. So when I was
Speaker 1: doing fifteen six, there was a guy and I was
Speaker 1: just in school of my freshman year at Fairley Dickinson. Way.
Speaker 1: That's how I got into Fairley Dickinson because I got
Speaker 1: in on a scholarship because paul vaulters are really rare,
Speaker 1: you know. And did you continue to pull vault at
Speaker 1: Fairley Dickinson. Yeah, until I broke a wrist in an ankle,
Speaker 1: and then they got rid of my scholarship. Then I
Speaker 1: actually had to work. That's how I ended up going
Speaker 1: to California. Okay, let's just stop there for a second.
Speaker 1: Fifth and confusing, isn't it not at all? Fifteen six?
Speaker 1: That's really fucking high for a metal poll. Yes, and
Speaker 1: it was, you know, in those days, it was like
Speaker 1: a gymnastic event. And it was an upper body event
Speaker 1: more than it was speed and and and agility, because
Speaker 1: when you bend that fiberglass pole, you kind of shoot
Speaker 1: yourself over the pole sixt ft. So you're not getting
Speaker 1: much higher than that no matter what you do, unless
Speaker 1: you put your hands at the very edge and then
Speaker 1: you okay, what were you falling into? The God? This
Speaker 1: is why I hurt myself. Sawdust three ft of sawdust.
Speaker 1: But by the end of the meat, after twenty people
Speaker 1: had done, it was packed like a concrete Okay. It
Speaker 1: was dangerous, Okay, so you would drive out. You didn't
Speaker 1: smoke marijuana, didn't do drugs in high school? Did you
Speaker 1: not drugs in California before you did them? Yes? So
Speaker 1: who is the guy who said, hey, let's go do this? Okay?
Speaker 1: I had a friend in the Bronx is his name was?
Speaker 1: He called him read he was. He and his brother
Speaker 1: were called the Venero Brothers, and we lived in the Bronx,
Speaker 1: which you know was of a middle class. Half the
Speaker 1: people in our name we were Italian, Irish and Jewish,
Speaker 1: and the Italians were all mobbed up like they were
Speaker 1: they were lower echelon. There was a middle like Johnny
Speaker 1: what was that name? God, there was that mafia movie
Speaker 1: about the low level people. Wasn't keep going on anyway,
Speaker 1: So this was this was like the mafia middle class.
Speaker 1: You know they were not anyway. So um Red and
Speaker 1: I went out to California the first time and intentionally
Speaker 1: to buy drugs. Weren't you a little anxious about the law? No?
Speaker 1: I was too stupid. And whose car was it? My
Speaker 1: favorite car I ever owned? Nine Mercury black convertible. And
Speaker 1: now the classic thing with dope runners is the car
Speaker 1: breaks down or there's a tail light out. Did you
Speaker 1: check all that stuff to make sure you wouldn't get
Speaker 1: stopped at the car? For seventy five I didn't want
Speaker 1: to look too closely. Okay, wait wait, wait, so okay,
Speaker 1: but after the first couple of trips, we realized we
Speaker 1: could fly back and forth. Fill up the suitcase put
Speaker 1: it on the plane because there was no security in
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty to sixty three whatever it was, anyway,
Speaker 1: and the whole theory was if it didn't come down
Speaker 1: with everybody else's luggage home, never happened. How many runs
Speaker 1: did you make? That's six? Okay? And who was the connection?
Speaker 1: My pal read so he knew somebody here his family, okay.
Speaker 1: And did you have any anxiety or it was always good?
Speaker 1: I was too stupid to have anxiety just to go back.
Speaker 1: How long did it take you to drive back and forth?
Speaker 1: Three days? Three days in each direction? Exactly? Okay, your
Speaker 1: quasi going to law school? You're dressing? No, no, no.
Speaker 1: This is when I was in college, and that's when
Speaker 1: I met my wife, which is what this story is
Speaker 1: supposed to be about. We went it was hot, and
Speaker 1: we went to the four star movie theater on Wilshire Boulevard,
Speaker 1: which at that time was a first run movie theater.
Speaker 1: Remind me that the one that La Siennaca it was
Speaker 1: near La Siennaca's on Wilshire. Yeah, yeah, okay, because there
Speaker 1: were a couple of she was she was the girl
Speaker 1: in the little uniform in the booth. Well really, and
Speaker 1: she was fucking adorable. I thought you said you saw
Speaker 1: her in a Chevy. Well that's when I knew where
Speaker 1: I was in love with her. Okay, I met her
Speaker 1: in the book. So she's taken the tickets. She's from
Speaker 1: l A. Yes, she's actually from Detroit. She's been out
Speaker 1: there since she was a teenager. Okay. So you see
Speaker 1: her and you we have the gifted gap. And I
Speaker 1: asked her out and she says, yes, I was cute, Okay,
Speaker 1: she was adorable. Okay. And so we had a long
Speaker 1: distance romance for about four years, and how I'd go
Speaker 1: back and forth, and then one time she came to
Speaker 1: New York and I just wouldn't let her go home.
Speaker 1: We got married. How hard did you have to convince her?
Speaker 1: She was very too hard. She was wondering when I
Speaker 1: would get around to it. Okay. And then as a
Speaker 1: solid success story. But going back, you're going to law school.
Speaker 1: What did they expect you to dress like? Well, they
Speaker 1: dress code at Brooklyn Law School. There was a dress code. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: you had to dress like a lawyer if you wanted
Speaker 1: to be a lawyer. That you're a dressed like one
Speaker 1: jacket and tie, white shirt and everything I wore a
Speaker 1: fur vest and I drove my motorcycle and I tied
Speaker 1: my motorcycle. I chained my motorcycle up to the to
Speaker 1: the railing, the to the building. So I didn't really
Speaker 1: last that long. I made it through the first year.
Speaker 1: And so how did it literally end? They said please
Speaker 1: go away? And were you cool with that? I didn't
Speaker 1: know what the funk was going on. I was I
Speaker 1: was getting high, and you know, I was really unprepared
Speaker 1: to be a lawyer. Okay at the time, because it's
Speaker 1: starting to burge in. Were you into the music? And
Speaker 1: when I when I was like twelve fourteen, you know,
Speaker 1: we were listening to like the the O J's and
Speaker 1: you know, very R and B and very you know,
Speaker 1: we thought we were really hip when we would go
Speaker 1: down to street to the to the record store they
Speaker 1: sold forty five and we'd buy all these you know,
Speaker 1: R and B bands and R and B singers and
Speaker 1: stuff and Elliott and I, you know, and Okay, so
Speaker 1: it was you and Eli. Eli was still in New York.
Speaker 1: What was he doing it? Was he a trapped talent agent? Yet? No,
Speaker 1: well he he ended up at William Morrison. That's where Okay,
Speaker 1: the essence of the story. That's where he met David Geffen. Okay,
Speaker 1: but before we get there, you were what was he doing,
Speaker 1: since he can't tell you're the vehicle for a story today,
Speaker 1: what was he doing before he got the job at
Speaker 1: w O M A uh, failing out of three different colleges, okay,
Speaker 1: and then he landed at the mail room at William
Speaker 1: Morrison some active absolute desperation. Okay. Who got him the gig?
Speaker 1: Do you remember? No? I don't actually, but somebody must
Speaker 1: have because he couldn't get that job. But it was
Speaker 1: you know that in those days, William Morris was the
Speaker 1: Tiffany Agency and your entree was the mail room. And
Speaker 1: if you survived that six months in the mail room,
Speaker 1: then they sent you on a journey for the next
Speaker 1: two years, working for all the different people in all
Speaker 1: the different disciplines you know, TV, film music. In the
Speaker 1: same era w William Morris and New York Uh liber
Speaker 1: and Crebs were both of the William wore did you
Speaker 1: know them at that era? But but the third the
Speaker 1: third party to this triumphant was it was Elliott and
Speaker 1: me and jeff Wald, Jeff Wald, the Helen Ready Jeff Wald,
Speaker 1: that's right, and By the way, I always thought Jeff
Speaker 1: was the greatest manager in the history of the music
Speaker 1: business because he made Helen Ready a huge success, and
Speaker 1: if you think about it for a minute, that's the
Speaker 1: fucking hardest job in the world. He was notorious for
Speaker 1: having an explosive personality. Yes, he was out of his
Speaker 1: fucking mind. He still is, by the way, right. But
Speaker 1: he did some stuff after he left Helen Ready and
Speaker 1: they got to war. He was working on a couple
Speaker 1: of things. He had a couple of he was in
Speaker 1: the news. I can't remember. It's like he might he
Speaker 1: managed Mike Tyson for a while. Okay, so it was
Speaker 1: the triumphrate. You're now out of law school. What happens
Speaker 1: to you? So my wife doesn't want to be since
Speaker 1: I flunked out of law school, she didn't want to
Speaker 1: work to keep me in law school. So and she
Speaker 1: wanted to go back to California. She did not like
Speaker 1: living in New York. So we went back to California
Speaker 1: and I rented. I rented a storefront next to the Troubador,
Speaker 1: about four or five doors down from the Troubador um
Speaker 1: on on Santa Monica, Bulevard. Just to be clear, towards
Speaker 1: the Beverly hillside of the Hollywood side. Here's DOHENI, here's
Speaker 1: the Santa Monica, the Troubadors in the middle of the block,
Speaker 1: three four doors down, and I'm opening a clothing store.
Speaker 1: We're you going to get the inventory. Well part of
Speaker 1: the story, okay. So in the East Village there was
Speaker 1: a clothing store called Limbo, where it was like the
Speaker 1: hit the hip place to be and this they saw,
Speaker 1: you know, re recycled leather jackets and you know, jeans
Speaker 1: and T shirts and you know, the uniform of the day.
Speaker 1: And I befriended them, and I went to California and
Speaker 1: I found the storefront and they filled the store up
Speaker 1: for me. But there was four doors down from the Troubador.
Speaker 1: There's no foot traffic, so the only time we did
Speaker 1: business was when the Troubadoor was open. So we would
Speaker 1: be opened during the day, but you know, we would
Speaker 1: get rich ladies from Beverly Hills slumming, but the Troubador
Speaker 1: crowd was marked crowd. And I met David Crosby there
Speaker 1: and we would sit and play chess and smoke pot
Speaker 1: while the shows were going on, and we became really
Speaker 1: good friends and um, and then Elliott was working for
Speaker 1: a company called chart Off Winkler. They a big movie company. Well,
Speaker 1: they became a big movie company. The first movie they
Speaker 1: did was, Uh, they shoot horses, don't they? But before
Speaker 1: that they managed comedians. Oh really, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: And Elliott was an apprentice and the sorcerer's apprentice in
Speaker 1: so many ways and anyway, but he came, you know,
Speaker 1: he saw Joanie Mitchell in Toronto, and um, what year
Speaker 1: we do I remember? No? No, No, it's interesting because
Speaker 1: this would have to be sixty six, sixty seven, sixty
Speaker 1: eight around that time. Carecause David Crosby still in the Birds. No,
Speaker 1: he had just been thrown out and he was living
Speaker 1: in a van and in my store, okay, and you
Speaker 1: met him literally how he came in the store. You know,
Speaker 1: the store was designed to attract him, you know. And
Speaker 1: the counterculture that was burgeoning at that Okay, they had
Speaker 1: we had the recent movie, the Cameron Chrome movie directed
Speaker 1: by another guy named eludes me right at this point.
Speaker 1: Have you seen that about Laurel Canyon. No, No, that's
Speaker 1: one movie, the David Crosby movie. No, I haven't yet.
Speaker 1: You should see it. It's really good. But the funny
Speaker 1: thing about it is at the very end, Cameron Crow
Speaker 1: plays an interview from like the sixties says, uh, it's
Speaker 1: not about fame, It's about your friends. And then Cameron says,
Speaker 1: you have any friends now? And he goes no, So
Speaker 1: how difficult was he a guy? Was he back then?
Speaker 1: I loved him. We hit it off right away. He
Speaker 1: had the best part I'd ever smoked in my life. Okay,
Speaker 1: but but but did he have any other friends other
Speaker 1: than you? Yeah? He did, actually, Mama Cass and a
Speaker 1: few other pole you know, yes he did. He was
Speaker 1: not he was not the raving lunatic he turned into
Speaker 1: the Kuran. He was very charming and very sweet and
Speaker 1: and he still is to this day, except he's managed
Speaker 1: to destroy every relationship he's ever had. Was the last
Speaker 1: time you ever connected with him? When they were doing
Speaker 1: this film? Actually he played in Steamboats Steamboat Springs. You
Speaker 1: now live in Colorado? Yeah, And I drove over and
Speaker 1: we hung out for the day, and I saw a
Speaker 1: show and I listened to the new music, and I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, he's making great music. You know, well, as
Speaker 1: I say, he's continuing to make it when everybody else
Speaker 1: gave up, but you have the store. Become friendly with
Speaker 1: Crosby right playing chess? Is he a good jazz player?
Speaker 1: Not particularly? Would you beat him? I didn't try really hard.
Speaker 1: He won a couple of times. I had to keep
Speaker 1: him engaged because if I kicked his ass every time,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have ended up friends. And I knew who
Speaker 1: he was, and I was very impressed by the fact
Speaker 1: that I was a big Birds fan, and you know,
Speaker 1: so I was just in heaven and Jimmy Fadden, Jimmy Fadden,
Speaker 1: Jimmy from the Nitty Gritty mc fadden was it Fatten?
Speaker 1: I think it's Fadden anyway, So he was. He was
Speaker 1: actually the first connection that I made to the music
Speaker 1: business because, um, the store was called the Great Linoleum
Speaker 1: Clothing Experiment. I think it was a hippie extravaganza anyway.
Speaker 1: So he helped me tear up the linoleum that was
Speaker 1: on the floor because I wanted to lay a wood floor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, because it's called sixty So so we called
Speaker 1: it the Great Linoleum Clothing Experiment, which was kind of
Speaker 1: what was going on. So, by the way, if he
Speaker 1: helped you, how did you meet him? He wandered, he
Speaker 1: I had a storefront. I think I had my motorcycle
Speaker 1: in the window, you know, and I would have clothes
Speaker 1: thrown over it. Every once in a while people will
Speaker 1: come and ask me to buy the motorcycle. No, the
Speaker 1: clothes that were hanging on the motorcycle and they were
Speaker 1: just dirty laundry, you know. So I thought, I'm onto something.
Speaker 1: Where are you living at the time? Um on Lookout Mountain?
Speaker 1: How did you get that place? It was a rental
Speaker 1: for thirty three Lookout? Would you pay to remember? Two
Speaker 1: hundred sixty? So he got the store. You know, Jimmy
Speaker 1: helped Jimmy. If it's in fattened, yeah, I know. But
Speaker 1: there are different people who grow up trying to which
Speaker 1: one it is. Okay, Well continue, so let's go what goes? Okay?
Speaker 1: So Elliott kind of gets into the music business. The
Speaker 1: Elliott is now in Los Angeles. Oh no, No, he's
Speaker 1: in New York and he's and he's discovered Joanie and
Speaker 1: now he's coming out to California a lot, okay, And
Speaker 1: he's staying in my house and eating my food and
Speaker 1: rowing my car and you know, and um he he
Speaker 1: signs Neil Young and Joni Mitchell. Those are his two clients.
Speaker 1: And how did he get uh Neil Young. I think
Speaker 1: because of Joanie or vice versa. Not exactly sure. I
Speaker 1: wasn't privy to the intimacies there, but he ends up
Speaker 1: with both of them. And keep in mind that the
Speaker 1: Buffalo Springfield had just broken up, and the prospect of
Speaker 1: Neil as a solo artist doesn't mean much, didn't didn't
Speaker 1: impress anybody. And Joanie was, however, brilliant um nowhere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but my contribution to this thing was I got to
Speaker 1: Elliott to hire David Crosby to produce Joanie's first half. Really,
Speaker 1: that's how it happened. Well that and and then they
Speaker 1: became boy boyfriends. Okay, well a little bit slower. Elliott comes,
Speaker 1: he's living at your house. He signs these people. I
Speaker 1: think he already had had them both, but he was
Speaker 1: coming out and staying in my house, okay. And and
Speaker 1: there's no money involved. Keep in mind, neither one of
Speaker 1: them and we're making any money. And he was still
Speaker 1: working for Chartiff Winkler until they realized he wasn't doing
Speaker 1: anything except these two clients. And they said, you know, okay,
Speaker 1: see you later. Punk anyway, so um we started. He
Speaker 1: asked me to get involved because I was friends with
Speaker 1: David and and Joanie, and these were our friends more
Speaker 1: than how are you friends with Joanie because of Elliott? Okay?
Speaker 1: So she would come to town too, yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: and and she was making a record with David and
Speaker 1: so he asked you to get involved, like in the
Speaker 1: management business. Okay, like give up your story, get involved
Speaker 1: or do a couple of things. Well, there was an overlap,
Speaker 1: and I didn't leave the store. I had four at
Speaker 1: that time. I had one in Berkeley, one in Galita,
Speaker 1: in Santa Barbara, one in uh San Diego, and one
Speaker 1: in l A. I was a hippie entrepreneur. So you
Speaker 1: were making money. Obviously, I was paying my bills. Keep
Speaker 1: in mind, you know a brand new BMW entry level
Speaker 1: six hundred, which I bought thirty ducks brand new. You
Speaker 1: know what's happened is we've lost the decimal point over
Speaker 1: the years. That's absolutely true. More than a decimal void. Well, no,
Speaker 1: that's about it. The entry level being now it is
Speaker 1: about thirty three, right, So yeah, decimal point. But by
Speaker 1: the way, in all things, we lost the decimal point.
Speaker 1: I had a two thousand two. I'd still be driving
Speaker 1: that car if I had it today. My favorite car ever,
Speaker 1: I would say to you my sixteen hundred. Even though
Speaker 1: it was underpowered and it was a box, right, I
Speaker 1: loved it. You could see out of every side that
Speaker 1: it was like the broad coffee Maker of cars exactly
Speaker 1: never nothing ever went wrong. So actually had a lot
Speaker 1: of trouble with mine, but I drove it for two
Speaker 1: almost two hundred thousand miles. Okay, So Elliott convinces you
Speaker 1: to come and help him because it's starting to be
Speaker 1: a business. He signs Joani to Warner Brothers, and he
Speaker 1: signs Neil to Warner Brothers, and they're making their first albums.
Speaker 1: Just let me ask you based on my interactions with
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell, and I know you continue to have interactions
Speaker 1: with her. She is very difficult interpersonally, and I would
Speaker 1: find like if I said, oh, I was driving here
Speaker 1: to eat for a Hamburger, she would say, well, you
Speaker 1: know you left, what road did you take? And then
Speaker 1: I said, I want to talk about the hamburger? Says no,
Speaker 1: why do you not want to talk now? Isn't that her? No,
Speaker 1: She's just one of the sweetest people. I've ever known,
Speaker 1: and and she and I've been since then till now.
Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, she's had a terrible illness
Speaker 1: and my son and I, how can I tell you
Speaker 1: a story? Okay, here's a good story. My son who
Speaker 1: Joanie loves, which sons you have, Yeah, because he plays guitar,
Speaker 1: and she taught him how to play guitar when he
Speaker 1: was eight years old. And of course she taught him
Speaker 1: open tuning, which she's famous for, yes, which you know
Speaker 1: doesn't translate to anybody else's course, so he had to
Speaker 1: actually learn the guitar later on. But she loved him,
Speaker 1: and you know he still loves him. So we go
Speaker 1: to visit her recently, I would say, within the past
Speaker 1: six or seven months, and she's doing great. I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: so she back now, she's still doing physical therapy, and
Speaker 1: she still has a caretaker looking after her. But she's
Speaker 1: up and about. Mind is fine, her mind, it's fine.
Speaker 1: Because I just got email from Cameron crow today. He's
Speaker 1: got his almost famous musical. Yeah, he said, Joanie went
Speaker 1: for Opening Night. I haven't. Can I make a left
Speaker 1: turn here? Of course I met Cameron Crowe when he
Speaker 1: was fifteen years old and he was a stringer for
Speaker 1: Rollings Don't and I set up an interview with him
Speaker 1: with David Crosby David's boat in the marina. Cameron calls
Speaker 1: me he can't get Dick because he doesn't have a
Speaker 1: car and he doesn't have a license. Okay, and I'm
Speaker 1: thinking to myself, I think I've made a terrible era here.
Speaker 1: I drive him out to the interview and that's the
Speaker 1: first time they meet. Okay, let's go back to Joanie.
Speaker 1: So I had told my wife a story. You know,
Speaker 1: I early on before Joanie became up, got up on
Speaker 1: the radar, and she may not have even made the
Speaker 1: first record yet. We did a tour of colleges in
Speaker 1: the Northeast, you know, Swathmore and you know, all the
Speaker 1: Ivy League schools, and she was she had a reputation
Speaker 1: and you know, a hundred two hundred people in college campus.
Speaker 1: So it was her and I in a rental car
Speaker 1: and we would drive around. So you really spend time
Speaker 1: with her. Yeah, we listen, I'm telling you. She okay,
Speaker 1: I believe you. You know, like we grew up together, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: I mean seriously, she was in her early twenties. I
Speaker 1: was probably twenty three you were married. Did you fall
Speaker 1: in love with her too? Well, she was exquisite, you know.
Speaker 1: But I've actually been in love with the same woman
Speaker 1: for fifty four years. And I love Joanie, and I
Speaker 1: love Ricky, and I love Bonnie and all the women
Speaker 1: that have been in my life. And I think the
Speaker 1: best credit I bring to all of those relationships is
Speaker 1: that I've been married for this with this really special
Speaker 1: person my whole life. Okay, let's go back and telling
Speaker 1: a story about recently. I'm in the car I'm in
Speaker 1: so I'm in the well, there's the precursor story. You're
Speaker 1: in the car in the Northeast tour, right, and I
Speaker 1: get pulled over by a Massachusetts State Police on on
Speaker 1: the mass Turnpike and he says get out of the car,
Speaker 1: and I said, can't. And it's mid of midwinter. He
Speaker 1: says get out of the car. And I get out,
Speaker 1: and I have no pants on because Jone Jonie is
Speaker 1: sewing up the sea the seam of my pants right split.
Speaker 1: So she's in the car sewing up my pants and
Speaker 1: he's making me get out and it's freezing out. So
Speaker 1: I get out of car and he cracks up okay,
Speaker 1: and I know I'm not going to get a ticket.
Speaker 1: And he looks in and he sees Joanie, who is
Speaker 1: really kind of stunning in her twenties. She was, I mean,
Speaker 1: she glowed, you know, So he wants her number. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: let's my eyes are bugged out, keep going, all right.
Speaker 1: So so I say to him, well, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to find this college down the road, and he
Speaker 1: gives me a police escort to the college in exchange
Speaker 1: for meeting Joanie and talking to her and everything, which
Speaker 1: is how it worked out. And she did that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course she didn't. She didn't want me to get
Speaker 1: a ticket, right anyway, So skip ahead forty some years. Um,
Speaker 1: my son Noah and I my son is in his
Speaker 1: late forties. Anyway, So we're at Joonie's house. We're making
Speaker 1: a call, you know, just tell her, right we you know,
Speaker 1: we still love her, and we're happy to see how
Speaker 1: much progress she's made. And she's just charming and wonderful.
Speaker 1: So I go to the bathroom and Noah tells her
Speaker 1: he wants he wants to write a story about me
Speaker 1: or do a biography about me. She says, oh oh,
Speaker 1: and also my wife never believed this story. Okay, this
Speaker 1: is that's the punch, right, all right. My wife always
Speaker 1: thought this story was bullshit. Okay. So I go to
Speaker 1: the bathroom and Joanie Noah's my son is talking to
Speaker 1: Joanie and Joanie says to him, you know, he's telling
Speaker 1: her he wants to do this story about me. She says, oh,
Speaker 1: that's great. Then I can tell the story about him
Speaker 1: and there's no passion. So let's listen. It's always true, right.
Speaker 1: So so forty five years later I expected an apology
Speaker 1: from my wife, which I got. Okay, let's go back.
Speaker 1: So you have four stores, and when Elliott says how
Speaker 1: long did your overlap doing both before he gave up
Speaker 1: the stores, well, I had a fifth story. I had
Speaker 1: one called Maxfield Blue, which was next door to the
Speaker 1: Great Linoleum, which became max Field, which was very spectaculum.
Speaker 1: The guy who did it as James his purse James
Speaker 1: is his son, not his name anyway, So he went
Speaker 1: on with, uh, continue the business. But I got out
Speaker 1: of it because the store in Berkeley got bombed, fire
Speaker 1: bombed or a tear gas bomb. Because during the riot
Speaker 1: at the Berkeley, the whole bunch of kids ended up
Speaker 1: in my store. So they shot um tear guests into
Speaker 1: the store, and you really can't sell clothes that smelled
Speaker 1: in the tear guests, you know, So that one crushed
Speaker 1: and then um one of my partners in. There was
Speaker 1: a lot of drugs going on in the taste, and
Speaker 1: I kind of saw maybe I should consider Elliott's a
Speaker 1: real alternative to what I'm doing. Right, So I ended
Speaker 1: up well, we we went into an office across the
Speaker 1: street from Electra Records on Lasiana cu Okay, right before
Speaker 1: you get there, did you sell the stores or walk away? Um?
Speaker 1: I gave them away? Okay? Where was Electric Records? Then
Speaker 1: on Las Annica? Where on Las Annica south of Santa
Speaker 1: Monica Boulevard by a half a block on the on
Speaker 1: the east side of right, Okay, okay, and okay, So
Speaker 1: then what was it called that that Electra? No, No,
Speaker 1: you're the management company. Lookout. There was a lookout right
Speaker 1: to begin with, because Jonie lived on lookout right, Elliott
Speaker 1: lived on Lookout David Blue do you remember day? Of
Speaker 1: course he lived on lookout and I lived on Lookout. So,
Speaker 1: being the imaginative, clever people that we were, we thought
Speaker 1: lookout anyway, So we took a one room office opposite
Speaker 1: Electra Records and UM in a building called the Clear
Speaker 1: Thoughts Building. Okay, And underneath our office, which was one
Speaker 1: room underneath us, was a woman who made leather goods
Speaker 1: and she was um, Jim Morrison's girlfriend, beautiful girl with
Speaker 1: red hair, and so he would hang out there and
Speaker 1: and then um, this is another story. Gary Burden who
Speaker 1: just passed away, and Henry Dilts and I would have
Speaker 1: breakfast at the There was a motel on the corner
Speaker 1: of La ciannaka the northwest corner. It was part of
Speaker 1: a chabby motel. He's about Dukes. Dukes. Of course I
Speaker 1: was stalling until I figured out. So so we would
Speaker 1: have breakfast at Duke's and Jim would he lived in
Speaker 1: that hotel, so he would come down with a six
Speaker 1: pack of beer while we had breakfast, and by the
Speaker 1: time we were done with breakfast, he would be done
Speaker 1: with his six cans of beer. And across the street,
Speaker 1: Bill Siddons had the recording studio called the Upside Down Studio.
Speaker 1: So within the space of these three blocks was the
Speaker 1: doors and eventually Crosby Stills and Nash and Joni Mitchell
Speaker 1: and Neil Young all within that corner. Wow. Okay, so
Speaker 1: you opened the management company. What it's Neil Young and
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell? Okay, and what's the next step. The next
Speaker 1: step is um David Crosby and Steven Stills and and
Speaker 1: Graham Nash get together, I think at Mama Cass's house
Speaker 1: and they meet each other for the first time. And
Speaker 1: this is happening serendipitously as management involved. No not but
Speaker 1: but they Jonie was living in the house that I
Speaker 1: ended up living in for twenty seven years. She was
Speaker 1: my landlord for years. Seriously, I would give you the address,
Speaker 1: but forget it. Yeah. But so I moved from up
Speaker 1: the street to Jonie's house, which was a very cool
Speaker 1: little cottage. I think she bought for like thirty five
Speaker 1: thou dollars in cash, and then with her first big
Speaker 1: check from Warner Brothers, she bought a house in bel
Speaker 1: Air where she still lives. And I lived in that
Speaker 1: house for seven Is that the legendary our house? Yes see?
Speaker 1: And I objected to that because Graham and her lived
Speaker 1: there for two years and I lived there for twenty seven.
Speaker 1: So here's whose house wasn't Okay? So they get together
Speaker 1: at Mama Casses. They sing and and then they end
Speaker 1: up in Joni's living room. When when it really when
Speaker 1: they realized they got something okay, And obviously because of
Speaker 1: Joanie and Graham and David, there's a lot going on there,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of sexual energy, you know, because
Speaker 1: David was her boyfriend for a while. Now Graham's her boyfriend,
Speaker 1: you know. Anyway, so Elliot and I became like the
Speaker 1: the default position, so we got involved. And then after
Speaker 1: they made the first record, you know, m Amad wanted
Speaker 1: the you know, well, this is I was gonna ask you.
Speaker 1: Everybody's on a different label. This is where David Geffen.
Speaker 1: So this is where David. David was the agent for
Speaker 1: at a place called Ashley Famous, the precursor to all
Speaker 1: the rock and roll agencies. So the way, so he left,
Speaker 1: Uh when did you live leave? William Morris? Somewhere in
Speaker 1: the midst of all of this, you know, my wife
Speaker 1: said to me, I really have to get the chronological
Speaker 1: order to this, but I don't really remember, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? And if I wrote my memoir it
Speaker 1: would probably be a mess. Because it's a mess. It's okay,
Speaker 1: So David is the agent for now, David is the
Speaker 1: agent for Janie Neil and now for Crosby Stills and Nash. Okay,
Speaker 1: what about but he's still working with Laura Nero. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that was his things had nothing to do with us.
Speaker 1: And by the way, Laura grew up in and Elliott
Speaker 1: and and Jeff Walls neighborhood. She was in the house.
Speaker 1: They were on the street with about four different, five
Speaker 1: different you know, five story, six story apartment houses. And
Speaker 1: she was the crazy one who never left her house
Speaker 1: and played piano all day, you know. But you didn't
Speaker 1: know her back then, I admit her. But she was weird,
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, Okay, so you get David is the
Speaker 1: manager for all these individual acts. How do you work? No,
Speaker 1: the agent? He was the agent. But as the Crosby
Speaker 1: Stills in Nash thing kind of congealed. He realized that
Speaker 1: we were making and he was only making ten, but
Speaker 1: you were splitting into seven and a half. I was
Speaker 1: a junior partner. I didn't I was the Bob Cratchett
Speaker 1: at the end of the table. Okay, we did you
Speaker 1: have a piece or just salary? I'm not sure which,
Speaker 1: but I think I got a piece but it wasn't
Speaker 1: much because you gotta keep in mind, we weren't making
Speaker 1: any money, right, I mean, you know, Jony, you know,
Speaker 1: didn't make a whole lot of money. Neal didn't make
Speaker 1: a whole lot of money. They were going, they were
Speaker 1: making first record solo records. I mean, we were you know,
Speaker 1: I made more money with the clothing business that the
Speaker 1: first two years of our management company. Did you ever think, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop doing this? No? I was having so
Speaker 1: much fun, really, I you know, the clothing business was
Speaker 1: like a business. This was like playtime, you know, and
Speaker 1: we would you know, we'd smoke, all right, and we
Speaker 1: were just having such a good time. Plus these are
Speaker 1: the people that were in our lives, you know. Of
Speaker 1: course they were not just clients, they were our friends.
Speaker 1: And it was just magic. I mean magic. Okay. So
Speaker 1: David's the agent and you're talking about am okay. So
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure which came first, but but at
Speaker 1: one point David basically negotiated a deal with Columbia with
Speaker 1: with Columbia with what's his fucking name was before Clive,
Speaker 1: No way, before Clive um funk I forgot it. Anyway,
Speaker 1: this is why I can't write my memoir. I can't
Speaker 1: remember any Golden Soon was no, no, no, it was
Speaker 1: it was a a rabbinical name. But we were okay,
Speaker 1: and then okay, and with Mo you get you get
Speaker 1: Neil Young involved. Okay. But but but Ahmed and and
Speaker 1: Mo were good, good enough friends that that part of
Speaker 1: the equation was not a problem. And by the way,
Speaker 1: Neil wanted to be on reprise because at that time
Speaker 1: the only other artists that was on reprise was Frank Sinatra.
Speaker 1: So when he made a solo deal at Warners, that's
Speaker 1: he was on reprise. So but Stephen was in Ahmed's
Speaker 1: mind the star he you know, he thought he was
Speaker 1: the creative force around Buffalo. Of course, yes, but he
Speaker 1: was the creative force around um Buffalo Springfield and and
Speaker 1: he probably was. I mean he wrote the you know
Speaker 1: Something's happening here, which for what it's worth, for what
Speaker 1: it's worth. Yeah, anyway, so David basically worked out at deal.
Speaker 1: Why can't I remember this guy's name? Anyway, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, they all ended up on Atlantic. Okay,
Speaker 1: we did not know how Okay, did you have to
Speaker 1: pay Columbia Record? I have no idea, but David did that.
Speaker 1: David did that, okay, which when we knew we were
Speaker 1: in the presence of somebody's special because he was dealing
Speaker 1: with these record company presidents and he was pushing them around.
Speaker 1: And he's this little guy and at that time he's
Speaker 1: got to be in his same age as me, mid twenties.
Speaker 1: But he was a monster, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: not a bad monster, our monster, you know. And he
Speaker 1: was fucking great. Next thing, we knew Crosby Stills Nash
Speaker 1: and made this record. It came out to have a
Speaker 1: great story about the cover. Henry Dilts remember from our
Speaker 1: previous conversation. He goes to take the picture for the
Speaker 1: Crosby Stills Nash first album, and he finds this couch
Speaker 1: by this abandoned building next to the to the car
Speaker 1: wash on Santa Monica Boulevard. Okay, so he takes this picture.
Speaker 1: Next day we see all the pictures this is. So
Speaker 1: the couch was in front of the house. This is
Speaker 1: the cover of the album, right, It's an abandoned building
Speaker 1: with an abandoned couch, and and Henry deals with his
Speaker 1: kind of insightful thing. Anyway, it takes this picture and
Speaker 1: he brings it back and it's not Crosby, Stills and Nash. Right,
Speaker 1: they're not in that order. They're not in that order.
Speaker 1: I noticed that when I bought the record. Okay, so
Speaker 1: we send them back the next day, you know, put
Speaker 1: them in the right orders. Great cover, but maybe it
Speaker 1: should be Crosby Stills on Nash and he goes back.
Speaker 1: The building's gone. The day after we took these pictures,
Speaker 1: they demolished the building. So we said, okay, fuck, let's
Speaker 1: just now another thing, which you may or may not remember.
Speaker 1: That cover had a special texture. Remember the story of that.
Speaker 1: It just wasn't uh okay, but that was that was
Speaker 1: Gary Burden. He managed to make every package that he
Speaker 1: did more expensive of and more interesting. Okay, that'll get
Speaker 1: us ultimately to deja vu. But do you know that
Speaker 1: the record is gonna be an absolute monster? No, we
Speaker 1: know it's going to be successful, but we have no idea.
Speaker 1: It was earth chattering. I mean, we we knew we
Speaker 1: had something, that the fucking record was great, and even
Speaker 1: before it got to the to the end, we knew
Speaker 1: something really special was happening, you know, but we had
Speaker 1: no idea. But the record comes out and it doesn't
Speaker 1: make a splash at first takes about six or eight months. Now,
Speaker 1: you also told me that the key was television. Yes,
Speaker 1: David Geffen, Okay, rock and roll bands are not on television.
Speaker 1: He has this idea that we're gonna call him a
Speaker 1: supergroup and they're gonna do all these television shows. So
Speaker 1: they did all these television shows, even Tom Tom Slider,
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no, the singer from England, Tom Jones,
Speaker 1: Tom Jones. Tom Jones has a show and they do
Speaker 1: They get to do two songs, and one of the
Speaker 1: songs they get to do is I'm gonna almost cut
Speaker 1: my hair to Crosby and Tom Jones sings lead on
Speaker 1: the song. Wow, that's where it's something today. Well you
Speaker 1: gotta find it on it, but there it is. So
Speaker 1: you know, five shows later, you know they're they're huge.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know everybody's going in this direction. And
Speaker 1: David took us in that direction against all logic. Television. Okay,
Speaker 1: when did David stop being an agent and get involved?
Speaker 1: Somewhere in the midst of this story, more to the
Speaker 1: beginning than the end of this story, we were talking
Speaker 1: about the ten versus the fifteen. Yeah, it occurred to him.
Speaker 1: We were making more, and um, we were going to
Speaker 1: make more, and so he wanted to be part of
Speaker 1: the management. Plus, to be honest, he understood what we
Speaker 1: had probably a beat before us. Okay, and once he comes,
Speaker 1: he moves to California. Now he's already in in California.
Speaker 1: Actually famous was based on in your Office, No no, no.
Speaker 1: Then we had Then we got a real office which
Speaker 1: was where on Sunset Boulevard, and it was owned by
Speaker 1: Hoagy Carmichael. You're talking about, No, no, the cluster of
Speaker 1: right building, the ones that that were ultimately Geffen Records,
Speaker 1: right by the Jaguar dealership Rex Block East East. But
Speaker 1: we started out with the upstairs of that first building,
Speaker 1: right okay, which had like four or five officers, and
Speaker 1: above us Hogy Carmichael, who owned the building, was living
Speaker 1: and he would we would see him come down to
Speaker 1: go to the mailbox in his pajamas and his and
Speaker 1: his uh bathrobe, and he would say things like I
Speaker 1: love the fucking the publishing business. So okay, Now that
Speaker 1: does at that point Hoagi owns the building? Yes, once
Speaker 1: David comes, does that change the dynamic of the business.
Speaker 1: We started to grow very quickly. We started to sign
Speaker 1: lots of clients. He um, he works out a deal
Speaker 1: with Ahmed to start Asylum Records. We managed all the
Speaker 1: acts on Asylum and he was playing he was playing
Speaker 1: three dimensional uh Monopoly, and Elliot and I were in
Speaker 1: the music business. Okay. Now in that era, let's slow
Speaker 1: down from it. At some point, Irving Asoff comes to
Speaker 1: work for the company. Okay. Irving is living in Champlain, Illinois,
Speaker 1: and he's booking um Ario speed James Gang. Okay, so
Speaker 1: David sees some real potential. So he comes into the
Speaker 1: office and he and I share in office. He's like
Speaker 1: on the other end of the thing, and um they
Speaker 1: didn't want the James Gang, and they didn't want Rio Speedwagon.
Speaker 1: They wanted him to book Joanie and Neil and Crosby Stills,
Speaker 1: Nation and Young. Oh there's another part to this, Crosby
Speaker 1: Stills Young part. How that got connected. Well, let's finish
Speaker 1: the Irving set back to Irving was in my office
Speaker 1: at the other end, and you know, he was um
Speaker 1: and and and during this period of time, we kind
Speaker 1: of put the Eagles together as we're trying to create
Speaker 1: another supergroup, you know. And we did these rehearsals in
Speaker 1: the in the Troubadour. And at one time we had
Speaker 1: four acoustic guitar players. We had j D Souther, Jackson Brown,
Speaker 1: Um Bernie Letton was a genuine musician guitar player, and
Speaker 1: then Um and and Glenn, so that wasn't gonna work,
Speaker 1: and and and and we got we got involved with
Speaker 1: Glenn and Don because they were the backup band for
Speaker 1: Linda and j D was dating Linda, so and we
Speaker 1: would all end up with Lucy Zell Adobe. You know,
Speaker 1: it just it was so fucking organic, it was amazing.
Speaker 1: So the when the Eagles actually get down to four players, um,
Speaker 1: I take them up to um to um Aspen and
Speaker 1: there was a club at the base of the mountain.
Speaker 1: In fact, I had this conversation with Don not so
Speaker 1: long ago, because I thought it was the bell the
Speaker 1: belly up yea, but it was called the double Diamond.
Speaker 1: That knows the different name before that but in the
Speaker 1: same rule. Yes, okay. So so I had this conversation
Speaker 1: and Don Don corrected me because Don likes to correct me. No,
Speaker 1: I love him too, by the way, you know, only
Speaker 1: you know, here's here's the problem with the Jonis and
Speaker 1: the Neils and all of these people you meet them
Speaker 1: for ten minutes, you see a slice of who they are.
Speaker 1: You have no idea who they are, so whatever emotional
Speaker 1: connection you made in that ten minutes, you make this
Speaker 1: judgment about who they are. But you know, okay, but
Speaker 1: you really knew them, but okay, so okay. I go
Speaker 1: to ask them because I needed to put them in
Speaker 1: a place for like two weeks, two or three or
Speaker 1: four shows a night, and I took them to ask
Speaker 1: me so I could go skiing. There was the only
Speaker 1: reason we picked this club and askment. They would do
Speaker 1: four shows a night, for seven days a week for
Speaker 1: two weeks. It was like the theory I had in
Speaker 1: my brain was that they this was gonna be their Hamburg, Germany.
Speaker 1: And I like the Beatles, yes, so so I you know,
Speaker 1: I would ski most of the day and then I
Speaker 1: would sit there and about the second show, which was
Speaker 1: about nine o'clock, I would fall over and fall asleep,
Speaker 1: and I would miss the last two shows every night.
Speaker 1: But I had a great time, and did the audience
Speaker 1: like them? Well, you know, they started out nobody who
Speaker 1: exactly so so they'd be you know, twenty people, third night,
Speaker 1: forty people. End of the first week packed By the
Speaker 1: next week, people were waiting in line to get in
Speaker 1: and they didn't know who they were. I didn't care.
Speaker 1: Did they call themselves Eagles at that point? No, No,
Speaker 1: they They may have by the end of this. But
Speaker 1: what happened during that two weeks since they became a band,
Speaker 1: They really became a band that Hamburg formula worked. And
Speaker 1: did they get along back then? Yeah, well they were
Speaker 1: in heaven. You gotta remember, when you start out on
Speaker 1: this journey, you're so happy that you're playing music and
Speaker 1: people like it, and you've got this thing going. The
Speaker 1: personalities don't matter as you start to become more successful.
Speaker 1: Personalities are what you're left with when when the program
Speaker 1: is in place, now you start to say, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: who is that fucking guy? Okay, so how does Irving
Speaker 1: figure into this? Okay? So Irving is working in the
Speaker 1: office and he's booking Joanie and Neil and you know,
Speaker 1: and and and he takes Um, his accountant, Um John
Speaker 1: Barrack sets him up down the street to manage Ario
Speaker 1: Speedwagon and James Gang and Dan Fogelberg because he doesn't
Speaker 1: want to let go of them, and David and Elliott
Speaker 1: didn't want him and didn't want those clients. So down
Speaker 1: the street from us was you know John who really
Speaker 1: sweet guy an today, Yeah, working with Journey and other people.
Speaker 1: Lives up north, Okay, so continue there. So like less
Speaker 1: than a year, right, and the first Eagles record comes
Speaker 1: out and there there well, I went on tour with Neil.
Speaker 1: We did a Canadian tour and the and the Eagles
Speaker 1: were the opening act and they were fucking great. They
Speaker 1: were just great. And hell was in the throngs of
Speaker 1: of Danny Witten from Crazy Horse and Bruce Barry o'deine
Speaker 1: and he wrote this tonight, Tonight's the night. Then they
Speaker 1: went into the s I R And recorded this whole
Speaker 1: thing and he kind of purged his demons. So he
Speaker 1: came out of there feeling really good. But the record
Speaker 1: was what he was, a big success. No, but there's
Speaker 1: a there are a couple of songs on that record,
Speaker 1: the Needle and the Damage Done is Wanted, the belt Needle,
Speaker 1: the Damage Done is on is on the Heart of
Speaker 1: is on Harvest next the next record after that. But
Speaker 1: he wrote it in there anyway, so you know, they
Speaker 1: were you know, they were out of tune and there
Speaker 1: were lots of imperfections. But he didn't care. But but
Speaker 1: Harvest came out before that. Yes, but it might have
Speaker 1: been recorded. But continue, Okay, wait wait, So Harvest was
Speaker 1: this huge hit after which these two tragic events happened.
Speaker 1: He went in and recorded this, right. He also went
Speaker 1: on tour and played all origin little material. What no,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you a story. So so we went out
Speaker 1: on tour in Canada was the precursor to the American tour,
Speaker 1: which was supposed to be the Harvest tour. Okay, So
Speaker 1: in Canada he plays Tonight's Tonight from beginning to end,
Speaker 1: and people getting antsie, you know, and he says to them,
Speaker 1: if you just hang in there with me, I'll play
Speaker 1: stuff you've heard before. So we get to the end
Speaker 1: of the album and he would start it over again. Yes,
Speaker 1: legendary story. And people left. They left because they were
Speaker 1: buying tickets to hear the Harvest. By the time we
Speaker 1: got to America, Elliott and David put their foot down
Speaker 1: and said this is not going to work. So then
Speaker 1: he did the Harvest. Okay did he was? He consciously
Speaker 1: aware of the fact that this would be negative for
Speaker 1: his career. Neil has never cared about his career. Do
Speaker 1: you care about money. He was doing fine. Okay, so anyway,
Speaker 1: but but yes he did care. Okay, So Barrick is
Speaker 1: down the street. The Eagles open in Canada. You're telling
Speaker 1: me that's the Irving story. Okay, So the Eagles are
Speaker 1: still within uh what's now called Geff and Roberts management.
Speaker 1: You knows, my name was not on Okay, So I was,
Speaker 1: like I said, I was down the end of the hall.
Speaker 1: That was the Bob Cratchett you know. Anyway, Um, but
Speaker 1: I was on that tour in Canada, and the Eagles
Speaker 1: opened up and they kicked ass, and then Neil did
Speaker 1: this challenge to his audience, how much can you take?
Speaker 1: You know? He found out. So by the time they
Speaker 1: got to America. So somewhere by the end of that tour, Um,
Speaker 1: Irving calls up and and he's on the road with
Speaker 1: the Eagles and the road manager. No, no, just on
Speaker 1: as a management saying. I was not the manager either. Okay,
Speaker 1: we had actual road manager because we didn't know what
Speaker 1: the funk we would do, you know, you know, we
Speaker 1: were there to collect the money and make sure that
Speaker 1: the band didn't call Elliott and David. You know that
Speaker 1: there was somebody right anyway, So, um, so Elliot gets
Speaker 1: this call from Irving, and to this day, I don't
Speaker 1: know if he was serious or it was a joke.
Speaker 1: He's on the phone and Irving is telling him he's
Speaker 1: leaving and he's taking the Eagles, and Elliott goes, who
Speaker 1: are the Eagles? Really? I think he was joking. I'd
Speaker 1: like to think he was joking when Elliott was strown
Speaker 1: a lot, so it could have been. Okay, And did
Speaker 1: it go down that smoothly? Did Elliot didn't give a ship? Look,
Speaker 1: you have to understand, the Eagles were making five or
Speaker 1: six thousand dollars a night, and that summer we had
Speaker 1: Crosby Stills, Nash and Young Ad on tour, you know,
Speaker 1: playing stadiums okay, and we had Joni Mitchell out on tour,
Speaker 1: and we we were just flying so high and and
Speaker 1: the Eagles were basically a baby band. Okay. Anybody else
Speaker 1: in the stable at that point, oh fuck yeah, there's
Speaker 1: lots of people, you know, okay, but my my my
Speaker 1: range of vision was okay. So at some point Asylum
Speaker 1: record starts up and there's the Jackson Brown album, that
Speaker 1: the Doheny album, the j D saw the album, but
Speaker 1: the three big albums on Asylum Records was Joe Joe Gunn,
Speaker 1: Jackson Brown, and Joni Mitchell. And there was this moment
Speaker 1: in the first nine months of that enterprise where we
Speaker 1: had three top five records at the same time. Okay,
Speaker 1: at what point does David say, I'm out of here?
Speaker 1: He says to to Ahmed, he said, um, I want
Speaker 1: this as my label, and Ahmed comes up with this
Speaker 1: idea about marrying a side them to Electra okay, and
Speaker 1: having David run both of them. So David goes over
Speaker 1: and Elliott and I had the management company, although I
Speaker 1: did work over at a lecture for about six months
Speaker 1: because David wanted to find out everything that was to
Speaker 1: find out about everybody. So I went over. There is
Speaker 1: like a plant, you know, Okay, you're making any money now.
Speaker 1: I was making good money all the way through. Once
Speaker 1: it started hit. They took care of you know, well
Speaker 1: that I didn't. You know, David has I don't know
Speaker 1: ten billion dollars, certainly billions. I don't have that right,
Speaker 1: so maybe I didn't get taken care of as well
Speaker 1: as I should have. Okay, So David moves on and
Speaker 1: you're there with Elliott yeah. Well, first I go over
Speaker 1: to Electure. For about six months, I was in the
Speaker 1: artist development and basically I came to the conclusion that
Speaker 1: they didn't really understand that you're supposed to actually work
Speaker 1: for the artist and not the artists work for you.
Speaker 1: I was very unhappy. I went back to the management company.
Speaker 1: So now it's just me and l IT and now
Speaker 1: it's Lookout Management. It goes back to Lookout Management. Okay.
Speaker 1: At what point do you move on from Lookout Management? Um?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I did twelve years total, and
Speaker 1: I just thought, you know, I could do this by myself.
Speaker 1: It took me about three years to figure out. I
Speaker 1: really I didn't know what the funk I was doing, Okay,
Speaker 1: but what was the incentive? Was Danny Goldberg say hey,
Speaker 1: let's do this. Danny came a few years later. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you leave and you call it what? Um, what
Speaker 1: do I call it? Lookout? Okay? And Elliott Elliot Roberts, No, no, Elliott,
Speaker 1: it was Lookout. I don't remember what I called it. Okay,
Speaker 1: who are your acts? Um? I had mostly publishing and
Speaker 1: you know, and um I had Lonnie Hall, her Malfort's wife.
Speaker 1: Some really weird ship, you know. But then I, you know,
Speaker 1: Danny and I both were pursuing Bonnie Raid, and instead
Speaker 1: of banging our heads together, we decided, okay, let's do
Speaker 1: the US together. He had an office at A at
Speaker 1: A and M Records, and I was working with Lonnie
Speaker 1: and Herb. I did a tour with Herb in South America.
Speaker 1: You know, I I was doing fine, okay, But so
Speaker 1: there was no thought I shouldn't have left Elliott. I
Speaker 1: shouldn't have left Elliott, but I, you know, of course
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't have a plan. You know, It's
Speaker 1: not like I was I was scoping out my ascension,
Speaker 1: you know. I just was going with the flow. Okay.
Speaker 1: So you hook up with Danny and it's Bonnie before
Speaker 1: he and Belinda Carlisle okay. And he's he's already done
Speaker 1: with twentieth Century Fox okay. And and he's got a
Speaker 1: record company at AT A and M, and his act
Speaker 1: is Um Cochrane. What I wish I had a rocket launcher,
Speaker 1: Bruce Coobert, Bruce Comber. Anyway, so okay, he's got Bruce
Speaker 1: Cockburn and and he's also put out a record with
Speaker 1: Stevin Nick. Right. That was with what's his name from Woodstock,
Speaker 1: Paul Fish. Okay, but that labels there they separate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and at this point Danny's out of that label, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: how does he get? Blinda Carlisle, I get? How do
Speaker 1: you get? So? When I worked with David and Elliott,
Speaker 1: the Go Gos came to see me and they wanted
Speaker 1: us to manage them. And they were sucked up. I
Speaker 1: mean they were just sucked up, drunk, disorderly high, whatever
Speaker 1: it was. I wanted nothing to do with them. Two
Speaker 1: years later, Belinda and Charlotte come and visit me and
Speaker 1: say they want me because I turned them down because
Speaker 1: they were sucked up. They got sober and they sought
Speaker 1: me out. So I ended up managing this was This
Speaker 1: is when the Go Goes are essentially finished. They put
Speaker 1: out their two albums. Okay, Belinda as a solo artist. Again.
Speaker 1: I thought one of my best jobs as a manager
Speaker 1: because Belinda was not a great singer. And I'm being kind, okay,
Speaker 1: and um we made huge success for her. Now you
Speaker 1: got sued on Heaven is a Place on Earth? Remember
Speaker 1: that one of the songs. There was a big lawsuit.
Speaker 1: But she didn't write that song. I know, I know
Speaker 1: the people who did write it. So the producer, um
Speaker 1: I forgot his name. God, he's a great producer. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he wrote the song and so he had some trouble
Speaker 1: with that, but it didn't affect us. Okay. So she
Speaker 1: was very happy with the situation she had. She was thrilled.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding? We had two or three huge hits.
Speaker 1: Um I got, um, I got what's the actress's name
Speaker 1: that was in Woody Allen's movie? Uh, Diane Keat. I
Speaker 1: got Dane Keaton to direct her first video. How did
Speaker 1: you get make that happen? I asked? How did you
Speaker 1: know her? Yeah? I had met her. How did you
Speaker 1: know Diane Keaton? I don't remember. How did I know
Speaker 1: Kevin Pollock? I don't okay who we were hanging with
Speaker 1: earlier before the podcast began. But okay, so now it's
Speaker 1: Bonnie Ray. What year are we in? But it's years
Speaker 1: before she has her breakthrough? Okay, I take her on.
Speaker 1: Um she's on Warner Brothers. They want to dump her. Okay.
Speaker 1: She's made nine records for them, right, none of them
Speaker 1: commercially successful. One of them she had a song that
Speaker 1: run Runaway that did well and then they wanted more
Speaker 1: of that, and she really she didn't get the program,
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't she funked up at the time too.
Speaker 1: She was drinking, you know, she thought of herself as
Speaker 1: a blue singer, and she thought, you know that that
Speaker 1: bottle of m what's the the bourbon or something that
Speaker 1: Jack Dan she thought that was part of the program,
Speaker 1: you know. And she was a bit overweight and um,
Speaker 1: and she was kind of miserable, you know, her situation
Speaker 1: at Warner Brothers. She had we delivered a record to
Speaker 1: extricate her, and then I took her over to I
Speaker 1: don't think they put that they even put that record
Speaker 1: out at that time, not so as you notice, but
Speaker 1: they did because they had a contractual obligation. Nine Lives
Speaker 1: was the name of that record. Yeah, with total stiff,
Speaker 1: yes without When she left Warner Brothers, did you already
Speaker 1: have the Deally capital? So I had her playing clubs,
Speaker 1: in fact, the night of the Grammys. Um, she I
Speaker 1: had her playing little clubs to clubs because that's all
Speaker 1: she could sell her redeveloping her No, that's where she was,
Speaker 1: you know. And she sent me a picture of the
Speaker 1: bathroom at this club in Buffalo, which was the literal
Speaker 1: interpretation of a ship hole. Okay. She sends me this
Speaker 1: picture and she says, how could you do this to me? Okay?
Speaker 1: And it crushed me because I didn't want to do
Speaker 1: that to her. So I kind of redoubled my efforts.
Speaker 1: And um, when she got the four Grammys. The night
Speaker 1: of the four Grams and we're standing backstage, she's got
Speaker 1: her shoes off and we're waiting for the limousine. I
Speaker 1: said to her, you know what pushed us over the top,
Speaker 1: that club in Buffalo. Okay, So now she's off off
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. Okay, so we do We do the Milwaukee
Speaker 1: Blues Fest. I have Bonnie on one end of the
Speaker 1: park and the Summer Fest. Summer Fest, so Bonnie at
Speaker 1: one end of the park and they have Blinda at
Speaker 1: the other end of the park and we all hang
Speaker 1: out and Charlotte and Belinda get on Bonnie's case about,
Speaker 1: you know, getting sober, and they fucking drag her to
Speaker 1: an AA meeting and they get her fucking paying attention,
Speaker 1: and then she starts to kind of realized that she's
Speaker 1: got to if she wants to survive, she has to
Speaker 1: kind of reorient her vision of the world, and she
Speaker 1: gets sober, and she loses weight and she gets healthy
Speaker 1: and then we make nick of time. Okay. In the interim,
Speaker 1: during that period of time, Joe Smith moves from Warner
Speaker 1: Brothers to Capitol, Right, that's my question. Was him or
Speaker 1: Bourbon because he brings Burman there too. Yeah, but it
Speaker 1: was Joe Smith and and Tim Divine and um and
Speaker 1: who was the head of A and R who's now
Speaker 1: at Concord. Oh God, I'm so bad with name. What's
Speaker 1: his name? Okay? So I take him Divine out to
Speaker 1: the to the club and Trincus right to see Bonnie. Right,
Speaker 1: you know, Bonnie there was never any doubt of her talent.
Speaker 1: It was her lifestyle that interfered with her career. She
Speaker 1: oh she could. I mean, she has perfect pitch. I'm
Speaker 1: part of my sales pitch was I would say to
Speaker 1: people that she was the number one female slide guitar
Speaker 1: player in the world, not that there's a big club there.
Speaker 1: There wasn't. It was a legitimate position, right, Okay, it
Speaker 1: was part of my sales pitch. So you know, I
Speaker 1: convinced Joe Smith to give us basically an entry level
Speaker 1: deal for like a hundred and twenty five thou dollars
Speaker 1: when other people are getting half a million, okay, And
Speaker 1: I get Don was. Don Was did one song with
Speaker 1: Bonnie for a Disney album for UM called stay Awake,
Speaker 1: where she sings the lullaby that Dumbo's mom sings the
Speaker 1: Dumbo and she sounds breathtaking. And Don Was never produced
Speaker 1: anything except was not was, And I asked Don if
Speaker 1: he would produce Bonnie, and I said, here's the budget,
Speaker 1: not one fucking pennymore, all in your fee, everything, And
Speaker 1: he makes nick of Time for like a hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty six thou dollars. Okay. Now, Bonnie wrote Nick of
Speaker 1: Time two songs on that right, What was the other
Speaker 1: one she wrote? Uh? I forgot okay. But but Nick
Speaker 1: of Time was not the big hit I know it was.
Speaker 1: It was a John uh John Hyatt song. Um fuck
Speaker 1: they I know. There are so many hits after that. Okay.
Speaker 1: So we had three hits off that record, right, and
Speaker 1: the record sold eight million copies. And here's my moment
Speaker 1: of clarity and my genius. I had one moment of
Speaker 1: genius in my entire fucking career. Okay. I convinced Joe
Speaker 1: Smith we put out the record in like October. They
Speaker 1: have thirteen releases in that quarter. Her priority was number thirteen. Okay,
Speaker 1: fourth quarter, that's when record companies make all their money, right,
Speaker 1: But she was not getting in. But I got um.
Speaker 1: I got Dennis Quaid to be in her video. Dennis
Speaker 1: was dating a friend of my wife's and uh and
Speaker 1: and so I convinced. And also he's a big bondy
Speaker 1: rate anyway, So Dennis is in the video and it
Speaker 1: blows up on v H one. At that time, that's
Speaker 1: that was your path. So all of a sudden nick
Speaker 1: of time is starting to go up the priorities for
Speaker 1: capital do you want me to wait for? Okay? So
Speaker 1: the by the end of the year, we sold about
Speaker 1: three hundred maybe four, somewhere between three hundred and four
Speaker 1: hundred thousand, and and Danny and I thought we won
Speaker 1: the fucking lottery. Okay, it was huge success. And then
Speaker 1: she gets all these nominations. So in January I go
Speaker 1: into Joe Smith and I say it to Joe, there's
Speaker 1: no chance she's going to Yeah, okay, so you're going
Speaker 1: to Joe Smith and I convince him that she's not
Speaker 1: going to win any Grammys. But our marketing strategy should
Speaker 1: be four time nominated because she got all those nominations.
Speaker 1: So we did end caps in the stores, and we
Speaker 1: did these displays, and we did this whole campaign. Did
Speaker 1: those cell records. Let me don't get ahead of me, okay.
Speaker 1: So this was all in the anticipation of the Grammys,
Speaker 1: and I convinced them to spend like a hundred thousand,
Speaker 1: which was an enormous amount of on Annie rate. Basically,
Speaker 1: what I was asking him to do was take the
Speaker 1: profit on the three or four hundred thousand records we
Speaker 1: sold and reinvested in this scheme I had, you know,
Speaker 1: so if I was wrong, you made no money. If
Speaker 1: I was right, we'd make more money. So she wins
Speaker 1: the four Grammys. It's one of the best nights I
Speaker 1: ever had. Danny and I were fucking crying in the
Speaker 1: theater and um and before the last one, which was
Speaker 1: Record of the Year, the big one, Bonnie's halfway out
Speaker 1: the door because she's convinced. She's got her shoes in
Speaker 1: her hand, and she's got the other three Grammys, and
Speaker 1: this is as good as life is ever going to get.
Speaker 1: And then she wins the other one. She's on the
Speaker 1: front page or at least on the entertainment section in
Speaker 1: every newspaper in America, holding four Grammys. She was the
Speaker 1: star of the Grammys. Now all those end caps that
Speaker 1: have been sitting there for two weeks, we're out selling Madonna. Okay.
Speaker 1: We sold two and a half million records in the
Speaker 1: next five weeks. Getting the product in the stores that
Speaker 1: was also probably a problem. Well, there were there were
Speaker 1: lots of times where the shipments were behind the orders.
Speaker 1: But give Capital credit, they hustled their ass off. They
Speaker 1: but you keep in mind, for the marketing program that
Speaker 1: we had set up for the nominations, we had stocked
Speaker 1: those stores, so we had about a two week delay,
Speaker 1: so they had about five six days to keep the
Speaker 1: place stocked. But we were fucking kicking s anyway, Okay,
Speaker 1: at what point does Danny then jump to Atlantic Records. Well,
Speaker 1: we're down the line some you know. You know, Dan
Speaker 1: and I were together for eleven or twelve years. We
Speaker 1: had John Silver come into the company, We got the
Speaker 1: Beastie Boys, and we had Nirvana, and we had all
Speaker 1: of this great stuff. We had clients that were and
Speaker 1: who were you in charge over? How did it work there?
Speaker 1: When I was in charge of John and John was
Speaker 1: in charge of the day Today on the Beastie Boys
Speaker 1: and and Nirvana. But you know when they went to
Speaker 1: South America and they went to Europe, I went along,
Speaker 1: you know, so you were there when Nirvana blew up? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What was that? Like? That was the most fun I've
Speaker 1: ever had in the music business. First of all, I
Speaker 1: loved them. I thought this was the most exciting band
Speaker 1: I had ever seen. I mean every time he performed.
Speaker 1: So here's how here's how it happened. Before the record
Speaker 1: came out, Sonic Youth took them on tour for like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, fifty or a hundred shows, and they
Speaker 1: fucking kicked Ask the first record they made on sub Pop,
Speaker 1: this bleach really sucked. Okay did they make that record?
Speaker 1: When they made that record, were you managing them already? No? No,
Speaker 1: I didn't think so. But um, what was the bass
Speaker 1: player current, Chris nova Stella? No, no, no. In Sonic Youth, Um,
Speaker 1: Mary took Keim Gordon and here the tall guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like I said, this is this is why I'm never
Speaker 1: going to get this on paper anyway. He said, this
Speaker 1: is going to be the next big thing. And he
Speaker 1: was right. He was right about Dinosaur Jr. He was
Speaker 1: right about the Breeders. He was he was kind of
Speaker 1: our in house and our guys. Okay, so did you
Speaker 1: have Dinosaur Jr. And the Breeders too? Okay, so as
Speaker 1: well as like four or five other kind of punky bands. Okay.
Speaker 1: And then Nirvana just blows up literally overnight. No, it was,
Speaker 1: you know, everyone's an overnight sensation. It just takes a
Speaker 1: couple of years. They opened for Sonic Youth for a
Speaker 1: year before they made never Mind. Okay, then they made
Speaker 1: never Mind, and we're working, you know, the precursor to that.
Speaker 1: And this is John Silver's moment of fucking clarity. The
Speaker 1: record comes out and he gets all the independent stores
Speaker 1: in America to only sell Nirvana record one night, like
Speaker 1: Saturday night, put out speakers, you know, all the mom
Speaker 1: and pop stores and at that time they were five
Speaker 1: thousands of okay, y, and we sell I don't know,
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand records in like the weekend that the
Speaker 1: record comes out Monday morning, then the number one selling
Speaker 1: record in America and radio has never heard the record.
Speaker 1: This was John Silver's moment of genius. Okay, but every
Speaker 1: kid in America had become aware of them because they
Speaker 1: were out on tour with Sonic Youth and they were
Speaker 1: like this underground conversation that was going on. So there
Speaker 1: was an anticipation for this record and then it delivered,
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So now now radio is catching up.
Speaker 1: So I would I would be on the phone kind
Speaker 1: of working my my promotion people and everything. And there
Speaker 1: were radio stations that say, why am I playing this record?
Speaker 1: And I would say, well, check the sales in your city.
Speaker 1: It's the number one selling record and use in your city,
Speaker 1: maybe you should consider it. And then they would listen
Speaker 1: to teen Spirit and say, I can't play this fucking record.
Speaker 1: I said, if you don't, everyone else will. And you
Speaker 1: you know. So with in three weeks, the record blew
Speaker 1: up so big the record company could not keep up.
Speaker 1: They sold out every copy. There was a two to
Speaker 1: three week delay on this record, and instead of crushing
Speaker 1: the record, it created a demand for the record that
Speaker 1: I've never seen. Okay. Also, the video had a big,
Speaker 1: guess part in that success. But the video came like
Speaker 1: when we went to radio. You got to remember that
Speaker 1: success actually already happened. The the the beat between the success,
Speaker 1: the Monday morning sales numbers from John's Midnight Madness Scheme
Speaker 1: already hit the marketplace. The kids knew it was a hit.
Speaker 1: Radio was just catching up, and then the video came
Speaker 1: and that's when things went okay. And then Danny decides
Speaker 1: to leave what kind of emotional spaces I leave you in? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, you interviewed, you interviewed Danny. Danny didn't know
Speaker 1: I existed, or apparently in his book or in anything,
Speaker 1: there's a there's this space between him and reality. And
Speaker 1: I guess the only way I'm ever going to get
Speaker 1: the credit in that situation I deserve is to write
Speaker 1: my book and leave his name out, which maybe I will. Okay, Um,
Speaker 1: it's called Gold Mountain at this point, right, tell us
Speaker 1: how that name comes together. He had a company in
Speaker 1: New York, um called Gold Something, you know. And I
Speaker 1: didn't give a shot at okay, you know, And and
Speaker 1: I lived on Lookout Mountain, so it's close enough for me,
Speaker 1: you know. Anyway, So you know, there was a moment
Speaker 1: in time where we ended up with thirty or forty
Speaker 1: clients and we were doing amazing, And there was a
Speaker 1: moment where we had three top five albums. We had
Speaker 1: Bonnie rate a lot of miles with that blue Velbot velvet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was a piece of work anyway, Um and I
Speaker 1: forgot the one might have been Vanovana was like number
Speaker 1: four or five. Bonnie was like number two and a
Speaker 1: lot of minds. Actually, just to stop on Bonnie. I
Speaker 1: prefer the album after that as good as Nick and
Speaker 1: time as luck of the drawing better better, because what
Speaker 1: happened is she and Don kind of connected in a
Speaker 1: very amazing creative way. Don was one of the best
Speaker 1: producers money can buy, just great. Most producers would argue
Speaker 1: with the client or say it has to be this way,
Speaker 1: and Bonnie was very for both and very energetic and
Speaker 1: you know, a strong woman and he would say something softly,
Speaker 1: so she had to be quiet to hear. And that's
Speaker 1: how it all worked. And okay, so how does Danny leave? Well,
Speaker 1: I think, um, uh, you know, Danny was always a
Speaker 1: record company guy, and he had a h He was
Speaker 1: a press agent to me for LEDs up Planets at
Speaker 1: a White Swan Swans and then um and I think
Speaker 1: he worked at Atlantic for a period of time. Or
Speaker 1: Um was the guy who ended up running everything. Doug Barris,
Speaker 1: Doug Marris. Okay, So Doug saw him as great potential.
Speaker 1: So Doug offered him a job at Atlantic Records, which
Speaker 1: he took with the understanding that at some point he
Speaker 1: would become head of Atlantic. But then the job at
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers opened up and he went over to Warner
Speaker 1: Brothers to run Warner Brothers. Well forgetting Danny, because we
Speaker 1: know Danny's story. When he walks to Atlantic, he's a
Speaker 1: out on the management thing, and he sells his share
Speaker 1: to Michael Cole. Okay, So now I'm okay, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: just to be clear, since we're going this deep, how
Speaker 1: who has how much? Why does he sell his fifty
Speaker 1: to Michael Cole? Because Michael Cole was going to give it,
Speaker 1: gave him a lot of money, I would assume. Yes,
Speaker 1: So now in partners with Michael Cole, which is not
Speaker 1: a tragedy because, to be honest, you know, as much
Speaker 1: as I love Dandy, not the greatest manager in the world,
Speaker 1: a great pr person and also kind of a visionary.
Speaker 1: He could see further ahead on what's going on than
Speaker 1: I could because I was my head was down, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Let me ask you if Cole
Speaker 1: paid that much for fifty Did you think of selling
Speaker 1: they're fifty to now? It never occurred to me, and
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have done it anyway. What would I do right, Okay,
Speaker 1: just to get one paiday, continue to do the job, okay,
Speaker 1: but as coal and an active partner. No, that's what
Speaker 1: was appealing. You know. He had Molson beer money, and
Speaker 1: he had a merchandising company, and we signed this contract
Speaker 1: and basically this, you know, I would have to go
Speaker 1: to Toronto and project what we were going to earn
Speaker 1: over the next six months. And I would go there
Speaker 1: and say, I don't know what the funk we're going
Speaker 1: to do in the next six months. Maybe we could
Speaker 1: do this, maybe we could do that, Maybe you know,
Speaker 1: make this much, or maybe we won't make anything. It's
Speaker 1: the fucking management business. The client says, I don't feel
Speaker 1: like going on on tour. You know, what are you
Speaker 1: gonna do? Right? It's not the fucking beer business, you know.
Speaker 1: So there was some conflict there. So and and also
Speaker 1: the truxt of it was I think Michael made the
Speaker 1: investment in the management business to to enhance the merchandising business.
Speaker 1: But part of my deal with him was that if
Speaker 1: we were going to use. I forgot the name of
Speaker 1: that company that he had, the merchantman with Norman. Yeah, anyway, anyway,
Speaker 1: whatever the name it, the merchant you see what's brain damage?
Speaker 1: And we got the story. Okay. So so there was
Speaker 1: a clause in the contract that said that if we
Speaker 1: signed any of our clients to the Norman Perry's company.
Speaker 1: No something like that, I know. But anyway, so if
Speaker 1: if we signed the client to the merch company, they
Speaker 1: would have to give us a blow market deal because
Speaker 1: we can't a double dip. Okay. So within six months
Speaker 1: they're putting pressure on us to sign the accent at
Speaker 1: a full rate today. And I said, well, you've got
Speaker 1: a choice. You could either take the commission or you
Speaker 1: could make the money on the merge. But you can't
Speaker 1: do both. And that was the kiss of death for them,
Speaker 1: because he had to answer to this board of directors
Speaker 1: with guys with suits and ties. I had never experienced
Speaker 1: this in my life. Goodbye, Oh. Irving brought his half.
Speaker 1: So I was partners with Irving for a blink. Irving,
Speaker 1: John silv and I the best name for any management
Speaker 1: company ever, A's off Stone and silver right. I got that,
Speaker 1: asked partners. How long did that last? Six months? Okay?
Speaker 1: But if Irving paid for it, and he was and
Speaker 1: he was a passive partner, what did he end up
Speaker 1: with when it blew up? He's probably still mad at
Speaker 1: me for this. We bought him out and it had
Speaker 1: to do with the axes before taxes dollars or after
Speaker 1: taxes dollars. And he thought I screwed him. I said,
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're supposed to be a big macha.
Speaker 1: You're supposed to have accountants and lawyers. Didn't they take
Speaker 1: care of you? This is not my fault, you know.
Speaker 1: So did he end up losing money or just not?
Speaker 1: He just didn't didn't make the thought he was gonna make. Okay,
Speaker 1: So it breaks up and goes three ways, right, So
Speaker 1: and and John took the occasion to go off on
Speaker 1: his own. And I had Bonnie Rate and Tracy Chapman
Speaker 1: and the kind of the older, more established artists. Tom
Speaker 1: Cochrane from Canada was huge success. I had a bunch
Speaker 1: of artists, but they were my generation, or at least
Speaker 1: within shouting distance of my generation. And John took Nirvana
Speaker 1: was gone at that point, and we had no idea
Speaker 1: that that um food fighters would end up being Dave
Speaker 1: Grohl would be such a big We knew Dave Grohl
Speaker 1: could sing. We had no idea he had that star quality,
Speaker 1: and he does, by the way, right. Also one of
Speaker 1: the nicest people in the business. Just a doll. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you. I'll tell you. The first thing he
Speaker 1: did with the big, first, big Nirvana check. Everybody else
Speaker 1: was buying houses and cars and doing all this things.
Speaker 1: He bought his mom the house Hamish a kid. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't have anything to say. I've seen him in
Speaker 1: Canada with his mother's mother wrote a book about the
Speaker 1: mothers of rockers. Okay, so you have your acts. At
Speaker 1: what point do you have an operation in Nashville? Well,
Speaker 1: Bert Stein was Bert Stein who runs the Nashville office.
Speaker 1: Danny Burton and I started the company early on. Bert
Speaker 1: went to Nashville. I don't know why. And he has
Speaker 1: a whole cadre of clients and we're still kind of
Speaker 1: in business in a quasi partnership. Okay. So ultimately Oaks
Speaker 1: Silva goes his own way. You're left with these acts.
Speaker 1: So then what happens for you? I worked my a
Speaker 1: off for the next ten twenty years you know, and
Speaker 1: then how does it end with these acts? Some of them? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I managed Bonnie Rate for seventeen years. Okay,
Speaker 1: there was a moment in time when she understood she
Speaker 1: was never going to make any more money per night
Speaker 1: or per year above what she was making. So if
Speaker 1: she wanted to make her net money, then everybody had
Speaker 1: to get less. So she gave me a list, and
Speaker 1: I went to the accountant, to the agency, to everybody.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize I was on that list. And at
Speaker 1: the end of that I said, no, I couldn't. I couldn't. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll work for reduced rate. Well, I wouldn't because I
Speaker 1: have all these other clients and if I do it
Speaker 1: for you, then my business is fucked. But she was
Speaker 1: such a We had a sunset arrangement, so she paid me,
Speaker 1: you know, reduced right over a period of time, which
Speaker 1: was the best three years of my relationship with her,
Speaker 1: because I started to love her because I would get
Speaker 1: checks and never have to work. And who else were
Speaker 1: you working with at that point, Tracy Chapman, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know did you? Were you? When Chapman had
Speaker 1: her comeback hit? That was me? That's I'm the comeback,
Speaker 1: kid man. You know she had the first hit, Fast Card.
Speaker 1: She did out a hit for a long time, wait
Speaker 1: fast Car. Elliott was her manager, okay, and we were
Speaker 1: not together. She sold five million copies, then the second
Speaker 1: record did about half that, and then I think there
Speaker 1: was a third record, I believe so, which sold less
Speaker 1: than five and my I wooed her for a very
Speaker 1: long period of time because I had to overcome the
Speaker 1: fact that Elliott was my best friend and she was
Speaker 1: angry at him. But within a year I kind of
Speaker 1: got her around, and the first record we put out
Speaker 1: was a New Beginning, which did actually better than Fast Car.
Speaker 1: Right that that song was other than she didn't write it,
Speaker 1: but it was she did. She did, Yes, she did.
Speaker 1: So it was an old blues shuffle exactly, um um um.
Speaker 1: I forgot the name of the song, okay, okay. So
Speaker 1: so she had done that song when she was a
Speaker 1: busker in Harvard Square and she would do it in
Speaker 1: her show every night. It was just just throwaway, little
Speaker 1: blue shuffle, give me one reason, okay. And David Kirshenbaum
Speaker 1: was the producer, of course, and I convinced the two
Speaker 1: of them that they had to record that song okay,
Speaker 1: because in her show it was a show stealer, because
Speaker 1: because it was different than all the other songs, it
Speaker 1: was a little blue shuffle. Everyone assumed I forgot the
Speaker 1: blues guy who recorded the song after her. Everybody like,
Speaker 1: within two years, I forgot his Chicago blues guy, old
Speaker 1: buddy guy he recorded the song. Everybody assumed he wrote
Speaker 1: the song. But she wrote the song and he covered it. Okay, Uh,
Speaker 1: did you did you go on Wikipedia? Because if you,
Speaker 1: if you went through the list of all the clients,
Speaker 1: I could actually remember who I meant it. No, No,
Speaker 1: I didn't go through because I know you, uh whatever.
Speaker 1: So then you know, one would from the outside would
Speaker 1: think that you made a lot of money in that era.
Speaker 1: I may have. Do you still have that money? No,
Speaker 1: that's not a chance. Where did that money go? You know?
Speaker 1: I there was a time where I had I was
Speaker 1: supporting five households. I had my wife's mother who was
Speaker 1: in her eighties and nineties, and I had my mother
Speaker 1: who's in the eighties and nineties, and I had my
Speaker 1: two sons and me. And it doesn't last as long.
Speaker 1: And also somewhere when when when um the the napster
Speaker 1: rat Napster. So let I tell you a great Napster story.
Speaker 1: If you want to hear it, well, finish your thought
Speaker 1: then we'll get to the great Okay. So, you know, slowly,
Speaker 1: over a twenty twenty year period, the income from record
Speaker 1: royalties and publishing is steadily going down, and the touring business,
Speaker 1: because my clients are a little bit older, is not
Speaker 1: going up. It's if I'm doing a good job. I'm
Speaker 1: maintaining you know so, and and you know and I
Speaker 1: had Also I went from Bonnie to Tracy to Ricky
Speaker 1: Lee Jones and I The interesting thing is Bonnie Joni Mitchell,
Speaker 1: Ricky Lee Jones, and my mom we're all born November
Speaker 1: eight or nine. That's pretty amazing. But tell your Napster story. Okay.
Speaker 1: So I'm the keynote speaker at Music BIG's two thousand
Speaker 1: in Berkeley, California. Because I'm I'm kicking ass, you know.
Speaker 1: So I'm the keynote speaker. I do my whole spiel.
Speaker 1: And this attorney, um god, he was killed driving his
Speaker 1: riding his bicycle on Milton Owen milt Owen O l
Speaker 1: I n um he was. He was the attorney for
Speaker 1: the kid that started napstin Okay. See takes me and
Speaker 1: sits me down in front of the computer and he
Speaker 1: shows me this. He said, this is gonna fucking just
Speaker 1: be the greatest thing that ever happened. And I got
Speaker 1: up from that seat thinking, we are so fucked. We
Speaker 1: are just fucked if this happens. So, Um, Hillary Rosen
Speaker 1: is head of the r I A A. So I
Speaker 1: call her up and I say, listen, I gotta explain
Speaker 1: what's about to happen to everyone here. At that time
Speaker 1: there were twelve record companies, and you know I either
Speaker 1: met with all of them individually or in some cases
Speaker 1: three or four at a time. Um, what's his name
Speaker 1: from Elektra was now No, no, no, no, the guy
Speaker 1: who originated the Elector come back to me exactly, and
Speaker 1: he became the technical advisor for the Warner Brothers groups,
Speaker 1: much at that point was one of the three biggest. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he got it and no one else got it. And
Speaker 1: Milt was prepared to sell the format and the thing
Speaker 1: for five million dollars. And I said this twelve record companies,
Speaker 1: I said, you know, we're talking four thousand dollars apiece.
Speaker 1: We should buy this because it is in fact gonna
Speaker 1: funk your business in a way that you have no
Speaker 1: idea what's coming. Okay. So they had all these excuses.
Speaker 1: First of all, they didn't believe me. Second of all,
Speaker 1: no matter how much I showed them what this was
Speaker 1: and what the future looked like, like, I said, what
Speaker 1: what was his name? Anyway? He used to have a
Speaker 1: private airline thing in Hawaii. When he retired, he had
Speaker 1: a um fuck and his brother and his brother ran
Speaker 1: Jackals Jackals who was technologically the exactly the only one
Speaker 1: who understood what was coming, okay, And they didn't listen
Speaker 1: to him either. There were all these reasons that they
Speaker 1: couldn't buy it, collectively, anti trust whatever I said, So, okay,
Speaker 1: one of you buy it. You know, we're talking five
Speaker 1: million dollars here. No, it's too much money. This is
Speaker 1: just the waste of sucking money. You know, at that time,
Speaker 1: records were like four or five thousand dollars apiece, and
Speaker 1: you make ten or fifteen or twenty hoping that two
Speaker 1: or three of them would be Okay, I said this,
Speaker 1: if you invest in this format nothing but money. If
Speaker 1: you don't figure out how to monetize it, it will
Speaker 1: bury you. Okay. So I went back to Milton. He said,
Speaker 1: how about three we could have bought it. We could
Speaker 1: have bought Napster for less than three three million. That's
Speaker 1: how much they spent in legal fees to kill it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then they hired me as a consultant. And I
Speaker 1: did this whole campaign of about um um um respecting copyrights.
Speaker 1: And it happened at a time where I couldn't hire
Speaker 1: um actors because there was a strike. So I had
Speaker 1: to create this thing that didn't work. No, that's for sure,
Speaker 1: because there was you know, I wanted when it worked
Speaker 1: no matter what. Oh no, it would have worked if
Speaker 1: if I had all the artists that were going to
Speaker 1: be impact. Well that's you know, we can debate past
Speaker 1: history for whatever. So why not you moved to Colorado,
Speaker 1: That's where I see you most nothing, You don't come
Speaker 1: back to l A. Why not call it a day, relax,
Speaker 1: enjoy your aging rand children, because I don't want to
Speaker 1: modify my lifestyle and I would have to if I retired. Okay,
Speaker 1: So what so how much do you travel with the
Speaker 1: acts at this point? Almost never? Okay. I mean I
Speaker 1: came into l A for a meeting with one of
Speaker 1: my clients, but I don't go on the road. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll show up in London if I have other business,
Speaker 1: other reasons. Okay, So who you know? Is there anybody
Speaker 1: who's actually working for you or you hire to have?
Speaker 1: I have, uh, Peter Wark who's kind of my partner,
Speaker 1: and he works out of Montreal and I work out
Speaker 1: of Vail, and we make believe that he's a New
Speaker 1: York and nom in l A. Now you call my office,
Speaker 1: you call my office number. It's an l A number. Right.
Speaker 1: Did you say you also have an operation in the valley.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, but no one's in there. There's an answering
Speaker 1: machine that forwards the calls. I'm in the I'm in
Speaker 1: the Witness Protective Okay. So it's not a it's not
Speaker 1: an answering machine in the old fashioned sense. I understand.
Speaker 1: It's a service that fowards the So you think you're
Speaker 1: calling an office in Los Angeles and they put you
Speaker 1: through to my office and I'm sitting with my feet
Speaker 1: up and looking out at the mountains in Colorado. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Ricky Lee Jones is taking up a lot of
Speaker 1: your time. What else is your time spent on toime? Well,
Speaker 1: I have disband in Austin called Fastball, who I Love
Speaker 1: had a big hit about twenty years ago. Nineties. Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: don't ask me. What kind of business can they do today? Well,
Speaker 1: you know they do reasonably good business. The nineties has
Speaker 1: kind of Um. They went out on tour with Ever
Speaker 1: Clear and you know they do package tour. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: do great. And they're just putting out a new record
Speaker 1: right now as we speak. And um, and then you
Speaker 1: know I did. I worked with um with Ray Davies
Speaker 1: for a number of years, but he's kind of kind
Speaker 1: of gotten quiet the past two years. Okay, so is he?
Speaker 1: Is he? Play? Ever gonna be the musical that was
Speaker 1: successful in London? Ever going to open in New York? Well,
Speaker 1: you know they were planning on opening it when Hamilton
Speaker 1: When Hamilton's came out, that sucked all the oxygen out
Speaker 1: of the room. So the answer is, I don't know. Okay,
Speaker 1: Kinks Ever get back together? Got? I been involved with
Speaker 1: Ray for almost eight years hoping this would be the case.
Speaker 1: And I don't think so. And not because Ray wouldn't
Speaker 1: do it, because Dave won't do it. They have any money. No,
Speaker 1: when we ever see would you ever see? Will you
Speaker 1: ever see Ray on stage again. Um, yeah, probably, but
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to get on a plane. He doesn't
Speaker 1: want to go on tour. My only chance for the
Speaker 1: Kings to get back together is if I could have
Speaker 1: a show in London where they do one show and
Speaker 1: I broadcast it to a thousand venues as a hologram. Okay,
Speaker 1: having been in the business for all these decades and
Speaker 1: having seen the transition to digital, what do you foresee
Speaker 1: for the business coming down the pike. Well, there's going
Speaker 1: to be another wave of technology. Really, what do you predict? No,
Speaker 1: I didn't you know. I didn't think Spotify was gonna
Speaker 1: suck the world over. I mean, you know, it's so
Speaker 1: interesting that the record companies have managed to monetize every
Speaker 1: technological change to the detriment of the artist. If you
Speaker 1: think about it, the major companies who have all the
Speaker 1: content makes deals with Spotify, and they get these huge
Speaker 1: advances to give them blanket licenses. They don't share that
Speaker 1: with the artist. The artists gets they said, well Warner
Speaker 1: said they were, But who the hell knows? Really, I
Speaker 1: must have missed that her statement because I have never
Speaker 1: seen one. Okay, but but Spotify pays some absurd like
Speaker 1: point zero zero zero. It depends whatever. It's not literally
Speaker 1: a penny rate, but it's a division. It ends up
Speaker 1: being that. Yeah, well it comes free. That's for a
Speaker 1: free stream of paid streams a little bit more. But okay,
Speaker 1: just as a ballpark figure, a million streams makes the
Speaker 1: artist about six thousand dollars. That's if they own their
Speaker 1: own publishing and they have a good record deal. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit higher than that, but forgetting that.
Speaker 1: You know, certainly, if you have what we call a
Speaker 1: heritage artist, it's it's limited on streaming. But okay, so
Speaker 1: in any of them. But they're trying, they're trying to
Speaker 1: open up other avenues exactly. But keep in mind that
Speaker 1: the one thing I the only solace there is is
Speaker 1: that the life expectancy of a stream on on Spotify
Speaker 1: or or Apple wherever, it basically lasts forever and you
Speaker 1: get paid. So by the time you're ninety you might
Speaker 1: actually make some money. Absolutely, Rod, this has been so great,
Speaker 1: and we never got past the fucking seventies. Man, No,
Speaker 1: we did a little bit, a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: on some level, the people this the definitive story has
Speaker 1: never been written. Okay, you've had their story from maybe
Speaker 1: ten thousand feet. But what I like you, what you're
Speaker 1: saying is we didn't know what the funk were hanging.
Speaker 1: We were friends. Listen. I said this to Elliott. Unfortunately
Speaker 1: Elliott pasted it was you know, I've known Elliott sixties
Speaker 1: and odd years. We were in business, and inspite of that,
Speaker 1: I still loved him, you know, because I would have
Speaker 1: arguments with him where he would say, I can't do that,
Speaker 1: that's business, and then he would ask me to do
Speaker 1: something as a friend. So when he wanted something, we
Speaker 1: would have as the friends, and when he didn't want
Speaker 1: to do something, he couldn't you know that the economics
Speaker 1: don't work? And where does this leave you with Geffen? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I speak to him and see him occasionally,
Speaker 1: and I'm always amazed that he actually knows what's going
Speaker 1: on in my life. And um, I think he actually
Speaker 1: cares and there are very few people in his life
Speaker 1: that are not trying to get anything from him. So
Speaker 1: I think our relationship is unique. And is he ever
Speaker 1: give you any advice? Uh? So we had a client
Speaker 1: um when this kid um god o Jared Wilkins so manages. Uh.
Speaker 1: There was a Broadway show called um Um Spring Awakening,
Speaker 1: of course, yes, and the guy wrote the music, Duncan Cheek.
Speaker 1: Duncan Cheek was Jared's client and um so the play
Speaker 1: played in Los Angeles and I put I brought David
Speaker 1: down because I wanted him to help me make a movie. Okay, son,
Speaker 1: David took Duncan the side and told him, don't ever
Speaker 1: make a fucking movie, you know, just keep it as
Speaker 1: a play. Just they'll suck it up. And he liked
Speaker 1: stuck a pin in my balloon because I want the
Speaker 1: big payoff for us was going to be the movie.
Speaker 1: And do you think he was right? Who the funk knows?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, one more thing. When we started
Speaker 1: out in the business, we thought we were fucking geniuses. Okay,
Speaker 1: about five or six years into the process, we realized
Speaker 1: that we were the luckiest fucking people who have ever
Speaker 1: met in your life. Five more years I actually figured
Speaker 1: out and I feel like I'm a real professional. But
Speaker 1: it took me ten years. Well that's something to contemplate,
Speaker 1: is I'm sitting here, Rob, thanks so much for being
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Thank you once again. That's ron A
Speaker 1: k a Stone straight from the Bronx, Here to Hollywood.
Speaker 1: He made it and he's still in the game. Thank you.