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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Ron Stone. I've been there at

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Speaker 1: the birth of rock and roll. Still a manager today, Ron,

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Speaker 1: Great to have you hi. How are you okay? How

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Speaker 1: did you meet David geffin? How did I meet David Geffen? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So well. The precursor to that is that I grew

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Speaker 1: up in the Bronx with Elliott Roberts. Wait, wait, you

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Speaker 1: knew Elliott Roberts. I've known him since I was eleven

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Speaker 1: years old. How did you meet you know, the dearly

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Speaker 1: departed Elliott when he was Elliot Rabinowitz, that's right, and

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Speaker 1: when I was somebody else also, I don't think so

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Speaker 1: oh I was really Won't were you? I thought you

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Speaker 1: were lived Stone? Jewish name. No, No, I made up Okay,

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Speaker 1: there there's a lot of things here. I made up

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Speaker 1: the name Stone because I was when I was in

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Speaker 1: law school, I was modeling to pay for to pay

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Speaker 1: for law schools. So they changed my name to Stone.

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Speaker 1: And you're not going to tell us what your original

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Speaker 1: name was. No, the police will get me. Okay, this

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Speaker 1: protection program like about that one time? I didn't really

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Speaker 1: know that anyway. So Elliot and I, um, we used

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Speaker 1: to hang out on Fordham Road in the Bronx in

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Speaker 1: a in an ice cream parlor called Jaan's. Okay cream

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Speaker 1: any good? I don't know. We never went an uh

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Speaker 1: so uh And you know we would stand on the

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Speaker 1: corner and sing old rock and roll songs. And let's

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Speaker 1: start there. What'd your father do for a living? Your mother?

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Speaker 1: My father was a shoe salesman and a Russian immigrant,

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Speaker 1: and my mother worked at some place in the garment district.

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Speaker 1: And how many kids in the so called Stone family?

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Speaker 1: I think I have an older brother. Is he still

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Speaker 1: with us? I have no idea. Well, I haven't spoken

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Speaker 1: to him for twenty five years. Did you have an argument?

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Speaker 1: He kind of dropped you get me into trouble? He

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Speaker 1: kind of dropped my there on me. You know, she

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Speaker 1: was living in New York and they got into a

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Speaker 1: big bruhaha, and he shipped her out to California and

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Speaker 1: she was in her eighties and I took care of

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Speaker 1: her until she was ninety four when she passed away. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you also haven't spoken to him since then? Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's by your choice or his choice mine. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: you meet Elliott Rabinowitch. You're hanging out at the ice

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Speaker 1: cream parlor. Yes, and then you know I I went

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Speaker 1: to law school and Elliot and I went. I thought

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Speaker 1: you dropped out of law school. I didn't say I finished.

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Speaker 1: Did finished? Where did you go to college? I went

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Speaker 1: to in New Jersey, to Fairly Dickinson University, or they

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Speaker 1: called it fairly ridiculous. I was not going to say

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Speaker 1: that I lived in the Bronx. They made fun of

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Speaker 1: me for going to college in the first place. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but I don't really know where it is in New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: New Jersey, Okay, So you lived at home. I lived

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Speaker 1: in the city and I went by motorcycle across the

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn Bridge for three years in fucking winter. Like what

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Speaker 1: kind of motorcycle Honda for fifty was? And did you

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Speaker 1: ever dump it? You ever had an accident twice and

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Speaker 1: any injury? No? I broke the motorcycle. Okay, well, at

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Speaker 1: least not you. Okay, So you're going to, uh, what's

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Speaker 1: your Josie to Fairly Dickinson and then you're gonna go

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Speaker 1: to law school. Yes, continue, So I went to Brooklyn

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Speaker 1: Law School for about a year and they objected to

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Speaker 1: the fact that the one I didn't I didn't wear

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Speaker 1: the attire that was required. Well, what year are we in?

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Speaker 1: Sixty five? Okay? So way to college? Okay, so the

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Speaker 1: revolution has already happened. So yes, And I've discovered psychedelic

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Speaker 1: drugs at exactly the wrong time in my life. So

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Speaker 1: I was my wife was working and putting me through.

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Speaker 1: I was married at that point. For well, I know

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Speaker 1: you've been married how many? How long? Fifty four years?

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Speaker 1: And how old were you when you got married? Twenty one?

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Speaker 1: And how old was she? Nineteen? How long did you

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Speaker 1: know each other before you got married? Three years? So

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Speaker 1: you met her when she was in high school and

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Speaker 1: you just started college? Yes, And and she lived in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles and I lived in New York, and I

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Speaker 1: fell in love with her the first time I saw

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Speaker 1: her drive up in her nine powder blue Chevy convertible

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Speaker 1: with the white top and white leather. Okay, Since she

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Speaker 1: lived in l A. And we know each other, how

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Speaker 1: did you intersect with her? How did you actually meet her?

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Speaker 1: She was the first girl I ever met in California? Okay,

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Speaker 1: what were you doing in California? I came out to

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Speaker 1: buy drugs to pay for my way in college, okay,

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Speaker 1: and you mess in those days. In those days, this

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Speaker 1: is the truth. We we'd drive out, we'd fill up

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Speaker 1: our trunk for you know, to two point two uh

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Speaker 1: uh pounds of pounds of Mexican marijuana. We'd fill up

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Speaker 1: the trunk. And by the way, I never got high

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Speaker 1: in high school or college because I was an athlete.

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Speaker 1: I was a pole vaulter. But my neighborhood, what is

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Speaker 1: your highest height? Actually I was four inches below the

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Speaker 1: the world record at one point, I was fifteen six.

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Speaker 1: Fifteen six, that's pretty good. In high school, that was

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Speaker 1: that with fiberglass poles. No see, I had. I had

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Speaker 1: such an incredible coach that he thought it was a

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Speaker 1: fad that was not gonna last. So when I was

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Speaker 1: doing fifteen six, there was a guy and I was

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Speaker 1: just in school of my freshman year at Fairley Dickinson. Way.

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Speaker 1: That's how I got into Fairley Dickinson because I got

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Speaker 1: in on a scholarship because paul vaulters are really rare,

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Speaker 1: you know. And did you continue to pull vault at

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Speaker 1: Fairley Dickinson. Yeah, until I broke a wrist in an ankle,

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Speaker 1: and then they got rid of my scholarship. Then I

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Speaker 1: actually had to work. That's how I ended up going

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Speaker 1: to California. Okay, let's just stop there for a second.

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Speaker 1: Fifth and confusing, isn't it not at all? Fifteen six?

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Speaker 1: That's really fucking high for a metal poll. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, in those days, it was like

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Speaker 1: a gymnastic event. And it was an upper body event

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Speaker 1: more than it was speed and and and agility, because

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Speaker 1: when you bend that fiberglass pole, you kind of shoot

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Speaker 1: yourself over the pole sixt ft. So you're not getting

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Speaker 1: much higher than that no matter what you do, unless

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Speaker 1: you put your hands at the very edge and then

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Speaker 1: you okay, what were you falling into? The God? This

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Speaker 1: is why I hurt myself. Sawdust three ft of sawdust.

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Speaker 1: But by the end of the meat, after twenty people

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Speaker 1: had done, it was packed like a concrete Okay. It

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Speaker 1: was dangerous, Okay, so you would drive out. You didn't

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Speaker 1: smoke marijuana, didn't do drugs in high school? Did you

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Speaker 1: not drugs in California before you did them? Yes? So

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Speaker 1: who is the guy who said, hey, let's go do this? Okay?

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Speaker 1: I had a friend in the Bronx is his name was?

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Speaker 1: He called him read he was. He and his brother

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Speaker 1: were called the Venero Brothers, and we lived in the Bronx,

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Speaker 1: which you know was of a middle class. Half the

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Speaker 1: people in our name we were Italian, Irish and Jewish,

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Speaker 1: and the Italians were all mobbed up like they were

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Speaker 1: they were lower echelon. There was a middle like Johnny

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Speaker 1: what was that name? God, there was that mafia movie

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Speaker 1: about the low level people. Wasn't keep going on anyway,

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Speaker 1: So this was this was like the mafia middle class.

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Speaker 1: You know they were not anyway. So um Red and

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Speaker 1: I went out to California the first time and intentionally

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Speaker 1: to buy drugs. Weren't you a little anxious about the law? No?

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Speaker 1: I was too stupid. And whose car was it? My

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Speaker 1: favorite car I ever owned? Nine Mercury black convertible. And

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Speaker 1: now the classic thing with dope runners is the car

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Speaker 1: breaks down or there's a tail light out. Did you

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Speaker 1: check all that stuff to make sure you wouldn't get

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Speaker 1: stopped at the car? For seventy five I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to look too closely. Okay, wait wait, wait, so okay,

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Speaker 1: but after the first couple of trips, we realized we

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Speaker 1: could fly back and forth. Fill up the suitcase put

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Speaker 1: it on the plane because there was no security in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty to sixty three whatever it was, anyway,

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Speaker 1: and the whole theory was if it didn't come down

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Speaker 1: with everybody else's luggage home, never happened. How many runs

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Speaker 1: did you make? That's six? Okay? And who was the connection?

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Speaker 1: My pal read so he knew somebody here his family, okay.

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Speaker 1: And did you have any anxiety or it was always good?

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Speaker 1: I was too stupid to have anxiety just to go back.

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Speaker 1: How long did it take you to drive back and forth?

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Speaker 1: Three days? Three days in each direction? Exactly? Okay, your

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Speaker 1: quasi going to law school? You're dressing? No, no, no.

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Speaker 1: This is when I was in college, and that's when

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Speaker 1: I met my wife, which is what this story is

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Speaker 1: supposed to be about. We went it was hot, and

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Speaker 1: we went to the four star movie theater on Wilshire Boulevard,

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Speaker 1: which at that time was a first run movie theater.

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Speaker 1: Remind me that the one that La Siennaca it was

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Speaker 1: near La Siennaca's on Wilshire. Yeah, yeah, okay, because there

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Speaker 1: were a couple of she was she was the girl

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Speaker 1: in the little uniform in the booth. Well really, and

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Speaker 1: she was fucking adorable. I thought you said you saw

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Speaker 1: her in a Chevy. Well that's when I knew where

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Speaker 1: I was in love with her. Okay, I met her

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Speaker 1: in the book. So she's taken the tickets. She's from

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Speaker 1: l A. Yes, she's actually from Detroit. She's been out

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Speaker 1: there since she was a teenager. Okay. So you see

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Speaker 1: her and you we have the gifted gap. And I

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Speaker 1: asked her out and she says, yes, I was cute, Okay,

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Speaker 1: she was adorable. Okay. And so we had a long

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Speaker 1: distance romance for about four years, and how I'd go

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Speaker 1: back and forth, and then one time she came to

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Speaker 1: New York and I just wouldn't let her go home.

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Speaker 1: We got married. How hard did you have to convince her?

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Speaker 1: She was very too hard. She was wondering when I

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Speaker 1: would get around to it. Okay. And then as a

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Speaker 1: solid success story. But going back, you're going to law school.

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Speaker 1: What did they expect you to dress like? Well, they

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Speaker 1: dress code at Brooklyn Law School. There was a dress code. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you had to dress like a lawyer if you wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a lawyer. That you're a dressed like one

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Speaker 1: jacket and tie, white shirt and everything I wore a

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Speaker 1: fur vest and I drove my motorcycle and I tied

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Speaker 1: my motorcycle. I chained my motorcycle up to the to

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Speaker 1: the railing, the to the building. So I didn't really

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Speaker 1: last that long. I made it through the first year.

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Speaker 1: And so how did it literally end? They said please

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Speaker 1: go away? And were you cool with that? I didn't

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Speaker 1: know what the funk was going on. I was I

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Speaker 1: was getting high, and you know, I was really unprepared

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Speaker 1: to be a lawyer. Okay at the time, because it's

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Speaker 1: starting to burge in. Were you into the music? And

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Speaker 1: when I when I was like twelve fourteen, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were listening to like the the O J's and

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Speaker 1: you know, very R and B and very you know,

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Speaker 1: we thought we were really hip when we would go

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Speaker 1: down to street to the to the record store they

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Speaker 1: sold forty five and we'd buy all these you know,

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Speaker 1: R and B bands and R and B singers and

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Speaker 1: stuff and Elliott and I, you know, and Okay, so

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Speaker 1: it was you and Eli. Eli was still in New York.

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Speaker 1: What was he doing it? Was he a trapped talent agent? Yet? No,

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Speaker 1: well he he ended up at William Morrison. That's where Okay,

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Speaker 1: the essence of the story. That's where he met David Geffen. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but before we get there, you were what was he doing,

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Speaker 1: since he can't tell you're the vehicle for a story today,

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Speaker 1: what was he doing before he got the job at

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Speaker 1: w O M A uh, failing out of three different colleges, okay,

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Speaker 1: and then he landed at the mail room at William

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Speaker 1: Morrison some active absolute desperation. Okay. Who got him the gig?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember? No? I don't actually, but somebody must

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Speaker 1: have because he couldn't get that job. But it was

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Speaker 1: you know that in those days, William Morris was the

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Speaker 1: Tiffany Agency and your entree was the mail room. And

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Speaker 1: if you survived that six months in the mail room,

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Speaker 1: then they sent you on a journey for the next

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Speaker 1: two years, working for all the different people in all

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Speaker 1: the different disciplines you know, TV, film music. In the

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Speaker 1: same era w William Morris and New York Uh liber

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Speaker 1: and Crebs were both of the William wore did you

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Speaker 1: know them at that era? But but the third the

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Speaker 1: third party to this triumphant was it was Elliott and

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Speaker 1: me and jeff Wald, Jeff Wald, the Helen Ready Jeff Wald,

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Speaker 1: that's right, and By the way, I always thought Jeff

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Speaker 1: was the greatest manager in the history of the music

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Speaker 1: business because he made Helen Ready a huge success, and

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Speaker 1: if you think about it for a minute, that's the

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Speaker 1: fucking hardest job in the world. He was notorious for

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Speaker 1: having an explosive personality. Yes, he was out of his

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Speaker 1: fucking mind. He still is, by the way, right. But

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Speaker 1: he did some stuff after he left Helen Ready and

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Speaker 1: they got to war. He was working on a couple

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Speaker 1: of things. He had a couple of he was in

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Speaker 1: the news. I can't remember. It's like he might he

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Speaker 1: managed Mike Tyson for a while. Okay, so it was

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Speaker 1: the triumphrate. You're now out of law school. What happens

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Speaker 1: to you? So my wife doesn't want to be since

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Speaker 1: I flunked out of law school, she didn't want to

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Speaker 1: work to keep me in law school. So and she

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Speaker 1: wanted to go back to California. She did not like

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Speaker 1: living in New York. So we went back to California

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Speaker 1: and I rented. I rented a storefront next to the Troubador,

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Speaker 1: about four or five doors down from the Troubador um

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Speaker 1: on on Santa Monica, Bulevard. Just to be clear, towards

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Speaker 1: the Beverly hillside of the Hollywood side. Here's DOHENI, here's

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Speaker 1: the Santa Monica, the Troubadors in the middle of the block,

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Speaker 1: three four doors down, and I'm opening a clothing store.

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Speaker 1: We're you going to get the inventory. Well part of

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Speaker 1: the story, okay. So in the East Village there was

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Speaker 1: a clothing store called Limbo, where it was like the

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Speaker 1: hit the hip place to be and this they saw,

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Speaker 1: you know, re recycled leather jackets and you know, jeans

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Speaker 1: and T shirts and you know, the uniform of the day.

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Speaker 1: And I befriended them, and I went to California and

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Speaker 1: I found the storefront and they filled the store up

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Speaker 1: for me. But there was four doors down from the Troubador.

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Speaker 1: There's no foot traffic, so the only time we did

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Speaker 1: business was when the Troubadoor was open. So we would

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Speaker 1: be opened during the day, but you know, we would

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Speaker 1: get rich ladies from Beverly Hills slumming, but the Troubador

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Speaker 1: crowd was marked crowd. And I met David Crosby there

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Speaker 1: and we would sit and play chess and smoke pot

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Speaker 1: while the shows were going on, and we became really

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Speaker 1: good friends and um, and then Elliott was working for

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Speaker 1: a company called chart Off Winkler. They a big movie company. Well,

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Speaker 1: they became a big movie company. The first movie they

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Speaker 1: did was, Uh, they shoot horses, don't they? But before

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Speaker 1: that they managed comedians. Oh really, I didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: And Elliott was an apprentice and the sorcerer's apprentice in

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Speaker 1: so many ways and anyway, but he came, you know,

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Speaker 1: he saw Joanie Mitchell in Toronto, and um, what year

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Speaker 1: we do I remember? No? No, No, it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: this would have to be sixty six, sixty seven, sixty

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Speaker 1: eight around that time. Carecause David Crosby still in the Birds. No,

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Speaker 1: he had just been thrown out and he was living

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Speaker 1: in a van and in my store, okay, and you

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Speaker 1: met him literally how he came in the store. You know,

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Speaker 1: the store was designed to attract him, you know. And

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Speaker 1: the counterculture that was burgeoning at that Okay, they had

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Speaker 1: we had the recent movie, the Cameron Chrome movie directed

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Speaker 1: by another guy named eludes me right at this point.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen that about Laurel Canyon. No, No, that's

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Speaker 1: one movie, the David Crosby movie. No, I haven't yet.

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Speaker 1: You should see it. It's really good. But the funny

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Speaker 1: thing about it is at the very end, Cameron Crow

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Speaker 1: plays an interview from like the sixties says, uh, it's

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Speaker 1: not about fame, It's about your friends. And then Cameron says,

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Speaker 1: you have any friends now? And he goes no, So

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Speaker 1: how difficult was he a guy? Was he back then?

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Speaker 1: I loved him. We hit it off right away. He

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Speaker 1: had the best part I'd ever smoked in my life. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but but but did he have any other friends other

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Speaker 1: than you? Yeah? He did, actually, Mama Cass and a

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Speaker 1: few other pole you know, yes he did. He was

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Speaker 1: not he was not the raving lunatic he turned into

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Speaker 1: the Kuran. He was very charming and very sweet and

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Speaker 1: and he still is to this day, except he's managed

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Speaker 1: to destroy every relationship he's ever had. Was the last

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Speaker 1: time you ever connected with him? When they were doing

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Speaker 1: this film? Actually he played in Steamboats Steamboat Springs. You

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Speaker 1: now live in Colorado? Yeah, And I drove over and

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Speaker 1: we hung out for the day, and I saw a

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Speaker 1: show and I listened to the new music, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's making great music. You know, well, as

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Speaker 1: I say, he's continuing to make it when everybody else

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Speaker 1: gave up, but you have the store. Become friendly with

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Speaker 1: Crosby right playing chess? Is he a good jazz player?

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Speaker 1: Not particularly? Would you beat him? I didn't try really hard.

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Speaker 1: He won a couple of times. I had to keep

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Speaker 1: him engaged because if I kicked his ass every time,

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't have ended up friends. And I knew who

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Speaker 1: he was, and I was very impressed by the fact

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Speaker 1: that I was a big Birds fan, and you know,

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Speaker 1: so I was just in heaven and Jimmy Fadden, Jimmy Fadden,

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Speaker 1: Jimmy from the Nitty Gritty mc fadden was it Fatten?

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Speaker 1: I think it's Fadden anyway, So he was. He was

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Speaker 1: actually the first connection that I made to the music

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Speaker 1: business because, um, the store was called the Great Linoleum

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Speaker 1: Clothing Experiment. I think it was a hippie extravaganza anyway.

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Speaker 1: So he helped me tear up the linoleum that was

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Speaker 1: on the floor because I wanted to lay a wood floor. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course, because it's called sixty So so we called

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Speaker 1: it the Great Linoleum Clothing Experiment, which was kind of

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Speaker 1: what was going on. So, by the way, if he

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Speaker 1: helped you, how did you meet him? He wandered, he

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Speaker 1: I had a storefront. I think I had my motorcycle

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Speaker 1: in the window, you know, and I would have clothes

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Speaker 1: thrown over it. Every once in a while people will

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Speaker 1: come and ask me to buy the motorcycle. No, the

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Speaker 1: clothes that were hanging on the motorcycle and they were

334
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Speaker 1: just dirty laundry, you know. So I thought, I'm onto something.

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Speaker 1: Where are you living at the time? Um on Lookout Mountain?

336
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Speaker 1: How did you get that place? It was a rental

337
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Speaker 1: for thirty three Lookout? Would you pay to remember? Two

338
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Speaker 1: hundred sixty? So he got the store. You know, Jimmy

339
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 1: helped Jimmy. If it's in fattened, yeah, I know. But

340
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Speaker 1: there are different people who grow up trying to which

341
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Speaker 1: one it is. Okay, Well continue, so let's go what goes? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So Elliott kind of gets into the music business. The

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Speaker 1: Elliott is now in Los Angeles. Oh no, No, he's

344
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Speaker 1: in New York and he's and he's discovered Joanie and

345
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 1: now he's coming out to California a lot, okay, And

346
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 1: he's staying in my house and eating my food and

347
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 1: rowing my car and you know, and um he he

348
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 1: signs Neil Young and Joni Mitchell. Those are his two clients.

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Speaker 1: And how did he get uh Neil Young. I think

350
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Speaker 1: because of Joanie or vice versa. Not exactly sure. I

351
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Speaker 1: wasn't privy to the intimacies there, but he ends up

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Speaker 1: with both of them. And keep in mind that the

353
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Speaker 1: Buffalo Springfield had just broken up, and the prospect of

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00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 1: Neil as a solo artist doesn't mean much, didn't didn't

355
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 1: impress anybody. And Joanie was, however, brilliant um nowhere. Yeah,

356
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,919
Speaker 1: but my contribution to this thing was I got to

357
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Speaker 1: Elliott to hire David Crosby to produce Joanie's first half. Really,

358
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 1: that's how it happened. Well that and and then they

359
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: became boy boyfriends. Okay, well a little bit slower. Elliott comes,

360
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Speaker 1: he's living at your house. He signs these people. I

361
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 1: think he already had had them both, but he was

362
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Speaker 1: coming out and staying in my house, okay. And and

363
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,399
Speaker 1: there's no money involved. Keep in mind, neither one of

364
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 1: them and we're making any money. And he was still

365
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Speaker 1: working for Chartiff Winkler until they realized he wasn't doing

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Speaker 1: anything except these two clients. And they said, you know, okay,

367
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 1: see you later. Punk anyway, so um we started. He

368
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: asked me to get involved because I was friends with

369
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: David and and Joanie, and these were our friends more

370
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Speaker 1: than how are you friends with Joanie because of Elliott? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So she would come to town too, yeah, okay, yeah,

372
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: and and she was making a record with David and

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Speaker 1: so he asked you to get involved, like in the

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Speaker 1: management business. Okay, like give up your story, get involved

375
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 1: or do a couple of things. Well, there was an overlap,

376
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Speaker 1: and I didn't leave the store. I had four at

377
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Speaker 1: that time. I had one in Berkeley, one in Galita,

378
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Speaker 1: in Santa Barbara, one in uh San Diego, and one

379
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,919
Speaker 1: in l A. I was a hippie entrepreneur. So you

380
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: were making money. Obviously, I was paying my bills. Keep

381
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 1: in mind, you know a brand new BMW entry level

382
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: six hundred, which I bought thirty ducks brand new. You

383
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 1: know what's happened is we've lost the decimal point over

384
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 1: the years. That's absolutely true. More than a decimal void. Well, no,

385
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: that's about it. The entry level being now it is

386
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 1: about thirty three, right, So yeah, decimal point. But by

387
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: the way, in all things, we lost the decimal point.

388
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Speaker 1: I had a two thousand two. I'd still be driving

389
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Speaker 1: that car if I had it today. My favorite car ever,

390
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 1: I would say to you my sixteen hundred. Even though

391
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,239
Speaker 1: it was underpowered and it was a box, right, I

392
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 1: loved it. You could see out of every side that

393
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: it was like the broad coffee Maker of cars exactly

394
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: never nothing ever went wrong. So actually had a lot

395
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: of trouble with mine, but I drove it for two

396
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 1: almost two hundred thousand miles. Okay, So Elliott convinces you

397
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 1: to come and help him because it's starting to be

398
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 1: a business. He signs Joani to Warner Brothers, and he

399
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: signs Neil to Warner Brothers, and they're making their first albums.

400
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: Just let me ask you based on my interactions with

401
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell, and I know you continue to have interactions

402
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: with her. She is very difficult interpersonally, and I would

403
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: find like if I said, oh, I was driving here

404
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 1: to eat for a Hamburger, she would say, well, you

405
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: know you left, what road did you take? And then

406
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: I said, I want to talk about the hamburger? Says no,

407
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 1: why do you not want to talk now? Isn't that her? No,

408
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: She's just one of the sweetest people. I've ever known,

409
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: and and she and I've been since then till now.

410
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, she's had a terrible illness

411
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: and my son and I, how can I tell you

412
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: a story? Okay, here's a good story. My son who

413
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 1: Joanie loves, which sons you have, Yeah, because he plays guitar,

414
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: and she taught him how to play guitar when he

415
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 1: was eight years old. And of course she taught him

416
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 1: open tuning, which she's famous for, yes, which you know

417
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: doesn't translate to anybody else's course, so he had to

418
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: actually learn the guitar later on. But she loved him,

419
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: and you know he still loves him. So we go

420
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: to visit her recently, I would say, within the past

421
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: six or seven months, and she's doing great. I mean, okay,

422
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: so she back now, she's still doing physical therapy, and

423
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 1: she still has a caretaker looking after her. But she's

424
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: up and about. Mind is fine, her mind, it's fine.

425
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: Because I just got email from Cameron crow today. He's

426
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: got his almost famous musical. Yeah, he said, Joanie went

427
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: for Opening Night. I haven't. Can I make a left

428
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 1: turn here? Of course I met Cameron Crowe when he

429
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: was fifteen years old and he was a stringer for

430
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: Rollings Don't and I set up an interview with him

431
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 1: with David Crosby David's boat in the marina. Cameron calls

432
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 1: me he can't get Dick because he doesn't have a

433
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,479
Speaker 1: car and he doesn't have a license. Okay, and I'm

434
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: thinking to myself, I think I've made a terrible era here.

435
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: I drive him out to the interview and that's the

436
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: first time they meet. Okay, let's go back to Joanie.

437
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: So I had told my wife a story. You know,

438
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: I early on before Joanie became up, got up on

439
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 1: the radar, and she may not have even made the

440
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: first record yet. We did a tour of colleges in

441
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 1: the Northeast, you know, Swathmore and you know, all the

442
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: Ivy League schools, and she was she had a reputation

443
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: and you know, a hundred two hundred people in college campus.

444
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: So it was her and I in a rental car

445
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: and we would drive around. So you really spend time

446
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: with her. Yeah, we listen, I'm telling you. She okay,

447
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: I believe you. You know, like we grew up together, right, Okay,

448
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: I mean seriously, she was in her early twenties. I

449
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: was probably twenty three you were married. Did you fall

450
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 1: in love with her too? Well, she was exquisite, you know.

451
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: But I've actually been in love with the same woman

452
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: for fifty four years. And I love Joanie, and I

453
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: love Ricky, and I love Bonnie and all the women

454
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 1: that have been in my life. And I think the

455
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: best credit I bring to all of those relationships is

456
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 1: that I've been married for this with this really special

457
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: person my whole life. Okay, let's go back and telling

458
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: a story about recently. I'm in the car I'm in

459
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: so I'm in the well, there's the precursor story. You're

460
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: in the car in the Northeast tour, right, and I

461
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: get pulled over by a Massachusetts State Police on on

462
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: the mass Turnpike and he says get out of the car,

463
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: and I said, can't. And it's mid of midwinter. He

464
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: says get out of the car. And I get out,

465
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: and I have no pants on because Jone Jonie is

466
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: sewing up the sea the seam of my pants right split.

467
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: So she's in the car sewing up my pants and

468
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: he's making me get out and it's freezing out. So

469
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: I get out of car and he cracks up okay,

470
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: and I know I'm not going to get a ticket.

471
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: And he looks in and he sees Joanie, who is

472
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: really kind of stunning in her twenties. She was, I mean,

473
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: she glowed, you know, So he wants her number. Okay, well,

474
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: let's my eyes are bugged out, keep going, all right.

475
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: So so I say to him, well, you know, I'm

476
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: trying to find this college down the road, and he

477
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: gives me a police escort to the college in exchange

478
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 1: for meeting Joanie and talking to her and everything, which

479
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: is how it worked out. And she did that. Yeah,

480
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: of course she didn't. She didn't want me to get

481
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: a ticket, right anyway, So skip ahead forty some years. Um,

482
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: my son Noah and I my son is in his

483
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: late forties. Anyway, So we're at Joonie's house. We're making

484
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: a call, you know, just tell her, right we you know,

485
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: we still love her, and we're happy to see how

486
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: much progress she's made. And she's just charming and wonderful.

487
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: So I go to the bathroom and Noah tells her

488
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: he wants he wants to write a story about me

489
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: or do a biography about me. She says, oh oh,

490
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: and also my wife never believed this story. Okay, this

491
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: is that's the punch, right, all right. My wife always

492
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: thought this story was bullshit. Okay. So I go to

493
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: the bathroom and Joanie Noah's my son is talking to

494
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: Joanie and Joanie says to him, you know, he's telling

495
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: her he wants to do this story about me. She says, oh,

496
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: that's great. Then I can tell the story about him

497
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: and there's no passion. So let's listen. It's always true, right.

498
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: So so forty five years later I expected an apology

499
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: from my wife, which I got. Okay, let's go back.

500
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: So you have four stores, and when Elliott says how

501
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: long did your overlap doing both before he gave up

502
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 1: the stores, well, I had a fifth story. I had

503
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: one called Maxfield Blue, which was next door to the

504
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: Great Linoleum, which became max Field, which was very spectaculum.

505
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:07,959
Speaker 1: The guy who did it as James his purse James

506
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: is his son, not his name anyway, So he went

507
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: on with, uh, continue the business. But I got out

508
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: of it because the store in Berkeley got bombed, fire

509
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: bombed or a tear gas bomb. Because during the riot

510
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: at the Berkeley, the whole bunch of kids ended up

511
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: in my store. So they shot um tear guests into

512
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: the store, and you really can't sell clothes that smelled

513
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: in the tear guests, you know, So that one crushed

514
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: and then um one of my partners in. There was

515
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: a lot of drugs going on in the taste, and

516
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: I kind of saw maybe I should consider Elliott's a

517
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: real alternative to what I'm doing. Right, So I ended

518
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: up well, we we went into an office across the

519
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: street from Electra Records on Lasiana cu Okay, right before

520
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: you get there, did you sell the stores or walk away? Um?

521
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: I gave them away? Okay? Where was Electric Records? Then

522
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: on Las Annica? Where on Las Annica south of Santa

523
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: Monica Boulevard by a half a block on the on

524
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: the east side of right, Okay, okay, and okay, So

525
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: then what was it called that that Electra? No, No,

526
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: you're the management company. Lookout. There was a lookout right

527
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: to begin with, because Jonie lived on lookout right, Elliott

528
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: lived on Lookout David Blue do you remember day? Of

529
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: course he lived on lookout and I lived on Lookout. So,

530
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: being the imaginative, clever people that we were, we thought

531
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: lookout anyway, So we took a one room office opposite

532
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: Electra Records and UM in a building called the Clear

533
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: Thoughts Building. Okay, And underneath our office, which was one

534
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: room underneath us, was a woman who made leather goods

535
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: and she was um, Jim Morrison's girlfriend, beautiful girl with

536
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: red hair, and so he would hang out there and

537
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: and then um, this is another story. Gary Burden who

538
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: just passed away, and Henry Dilts and I would have

539
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: breakfast at the There was a motel on the corner

540
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: of La ciannaka the northwest corner. It was part of

541
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: a chabby motel. He's about Dukes. Dukes. Of course I

542
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: was stalling until I figured out. So so we would

543
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: have breakfast at Duke's and Jim would he lived in

544
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: that hotel, so he would come down with a six

545
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: pack of beer while we had breakfast, and by the

546
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: time we were done with breakfast, he would be done

547
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: with his six cans of beer. And across the street,

548
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: Bill Siddons had the recording studio called the Upside Down Studio.

549
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: So within the space of these three blocks was the

550
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: doors and eventually Crosby Stills and Nash and Joni Mitchell

551
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 1: and Neil Young all within that corner. Wow. Okay, so

552
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: you opened the management company. What it's Neil Young and

553
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell? Okay, and what's the next step. The next

554
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: step is um David Crosby and Steven Stills and and

555
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: Graham Nash get together, I think at Mama Cass's house

556
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: and they meet each other for the first time. And

557
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: this is happening serendipitously as management involved. No not but

558
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: but they Jonie was living in the house that I

559
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: ended up living in for twenty seven years. She was

560
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: my landlord for years. Seriously, I would give you the address,

561
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: but forget it. Yeah. But so I moved from up

562
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: the street to Jonie's house, which was a very cool

563
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: little cottage. I think she bought for like thirty five

564
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: thou dollars in cash, and then with her first big

565
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: check from Warner Brothers, she bought a house in bel

566
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: Air where she still lives. And I lived in that

567
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: house for seven Is that the legendary our house? Yes see?

568
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: And I objected to that because Graham and her lived

569
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: there for two years and I lived there for twenty seven.

570
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: So here's whose house wasn't Okay? So they get together

571
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: at Mama Casses. They sing and and then they end

572
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: up in Joni's living room. When when it really when

573
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: they realized they got something okay, And obviously because of

574
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: Joanie and Graham and David, there's a lot going on there,

575
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of sexual energy, you know, because

576
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: David was her boyfriend for a while. Now Graham's her boyfriend,

577
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: you know. Anyway, so Elliot and I became like the

578
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: the default position, so we got involved. And then after

579
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: they made the first record, you know, m Amad wanted

580
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: the you know, well, this is I was gonna ask you.

581
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: Everybody's on a different label. This is where David Geffen.

582
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,479
Speaker 1: So this is where David. David was the agent for

583
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: at a place called Ashley Famous, the precursor to all

584
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: the rock and roll agencies. So the way, so he left,

585
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: Uh when did you live leave? William Morris? Somewhere in

586
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: the midst of all of this, you know, my wife

587
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: said to me, I really have to get the chronological

588
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: order to this, but I don't really remember, you know

589
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: what I mean? And if I wrote my memoir it

590
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: would probably be a mess. Because it's a mess. It's okay,

591
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: So David is the agent for now, David is the

592
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: agent for Janie Neil and now for Crosby Stills and Nash. Okay,

593
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: what about but he's still working with Laura Nero. Well, yeah,

594
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: that's that was his things had nothing to do with us.

595
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: And by the way, Laura grew up in and Elliott

596
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: and and Jeff Walls neighborhood. She was in the house.

597
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: They were on the street with about four different, five

598
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: different you know, five story, six story apartment houses. And

599
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: she was the crazy one who never left her house

600
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 1: and played piano all day, you know. But you didn't

601
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 1: know her back then, I admit her. But she was weird,

602
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, Okay, so you get David is the

603
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: manager for all these individual acts. How do you work? No,

604
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: the agent? He was the agent. But as the Crosby

605
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: Stills in Nash thing kind of congealed. He realized that

606
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: we were making and he was only making ten, but

607
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: you were splitting into seven and a half. I was

608
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: a junior partner. I didn't I was the Bob Cratchett

609
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: at the end of the table. Okay, we did you

610
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 1: have a piece or just salary? I'm not sure which,

611
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: but I think I got a piece but it wasn't

612
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: much because you gotta keep in mind, we weren't making

613
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: any money, right, I mean, you know, Jony, you know,

614
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 1: didn't make a whole lot of money. Neal didn't make

615
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: a whole lot of money. They were going, they were

616
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: making first record solo records. I mean, we were you know,

617
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: I made more money with the clothing business that the

618
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: first two years of our management company. Did you ever think, Hey,

619
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop doing this? No? I was having so

620
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: much fun, really, I you know, the clothing business was

621
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: like a business. This was like playtime, you know, and

622
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: we would you know, we'd smoke, all right, and we

623
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: were just having such a good time. Plus these are

624
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: the people that were in our lives, you know. Of

625
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: course they were not just clients, they were our friends.

626
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: And it was just magic. I mean magic. Okay. So

627
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: David's the agent and you're talking about am okay. So

628
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure which came first, but but at

629
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: one point David basically negotiated a deal with Columbia with

630
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: with Columbia with what's his fucking name was before Clive,

631
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 1: No way, before Clive um funk I forgot it. Anyway,

632
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: this is why I can't write my memoir. I can't

633
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: remember any Golden Soon was no, no, no, it was

634
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: it was a a rabbinical name. But we were okay,

635
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: and then okay, and with Mo you get you get

636
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: Neil Young involved. Okay. But but but Ahmed and and

637
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: Mo were good, good enough friends that that part of

638
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: the equation was not a problem. And by the way,

639
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: Neil wanted to be on reprise because at that time

640
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: the only other artists that was on reprise was Frank Sinatra.

641
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: So when he made a solo deal at Warners, that's

642
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: he was on reprise. So but Stephen was in Ahmed's

643
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: mind the star he you know, he thought he was

644
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: the creative force around Buffalo. Of course, yes, but he

645
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: was the creative force around um Buffalo Springfield and and

646
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: he probably was. I mean he wrote the you know

647
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: Something's happening here, which for what it's worth, for what

648
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: it's worth. Yeah, anyway, so David basically worked out at deal.

649
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: Why can't I remember this guy's name? Anyway, at the

650
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: end of the day, they all ended up on Atlantic. Okay,

651
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: we did not know how Okay, did you have to

652
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: pay Columbia Record? I have no idea, but David did that.

653
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: David did that, okay, which when we knew we were

654
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: in the presence of somebody's special because he was dealing

655
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: with these record company presidents and he was pushing them around.

656
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: And he's this little guy and at that time he's

657
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 1: got to be in his same age as me, mid twenties.

658
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: But he was a monster, you know what I mean,

659
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: not a bad monster, our monster, you know. And he

660
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: was fucking great. Next thing, we knew Crosby Stills Nash

661
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: and made this record. It came out to have a

662
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: great story about the cover. Henry Dilts remember from our

663
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: previous conversation. He goes to take the picture for the

664
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: Crosby Stills Nash first album, and he finds this couch

665
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: by this abandoned building next to the to the car

666
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: wash on Santa Monica Boulevard. Okay, so he takes this picture.

667
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: Next day we see all the pictures this is. So

668
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: the couch was in front of the house. This is

669
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: the cover of the album, right, It's an abandoned building

670
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: with an abandoned couch, and and Henry deals with his

671
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: kind of insightful thing. Anyway, it takes this picture and

672
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: he brings it back and it's not Crosby, Stills and Nash. Right,

673
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: they're not in that order. They're not in that order.

674
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: I noticed that when I bought the record. Okay, so

675
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: we send them back the next day, you know, put

676
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: them in the right orders. Great cover, but maybe it

677
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,479
Speaker 1: should be Crosby Stills on Nash and he goes back.

678
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: The building's gone. The day after we took these pictures,

679
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,479
Speaker 1: they demolished the building. So we said, okay, fuck, let's

680
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: just now another thing, which you may or may not remember.

681
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: That cover had a special texture. Remember the story of that.

682
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: It just wasn't uh okay, but that was that was

683
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: Gary Burden. He managed to make every package that he

684
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: did more expensive of and more interesting. Okay, that'll get

685
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 1: us ultimately to deja vu. But do you know that

686
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: the record is gonna be an absolute monster? No, we

687
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: know it's going to be successful, but we have no idea.

688
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: It was earth chattering. I mean, we we knew we

689
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: had something, that the fucking record was great, and even

690
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: before it got to the to the end, we knew

691
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: something really special was happening, you know, but we had

692
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 1: no idea. But the record comes out and it doesn't

693
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: make a splash at first takes about six or eight months. Now,

694
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: you also told me that the key was television. Yes,

695
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: David Geffen, Okay, rock and roll bands are not on television.

696
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: He has this idea that we're gonna call him a

697
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: supergroup and they're gonna do all these television shows. So

698
00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: they did all these television shows, even Tom Tom Slider,

699
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no, the singer from England, Tom Jones,

700
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: Tom Jones. Tom Jones has a show and they do

701
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: They get to do two songs, and one of the

702
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: songs they get to do is I'm gonna almost cut

703
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: my hair to Crosby and Tom Jones sings lead on

704
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: the song. Wow, that's where it's something today. Well you

705
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: gotta find it on it, but there it is. So

706
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: you know, five shows later, you know they're they're huge.

707
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: I mean, you know everybody's going in this direction. And

708
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: David took us in that direction against all logic. Television. Okay,

709
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: when did David stop being an agent and get involved?

710
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: Somewhere in the midst of this story, more to the

711
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: beginning than the end of this story, we were talking

712
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: about the ten versus the fifteen. Yeah, it occurred to him.

713
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: We were making more, and um, we were going to

714
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: make more, and so he wanted to be part of

715
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: the management. Plus, to be honest, he understood what we

716
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: had probably a beat before us. Okay, and once he comes,

717
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: he moves to California. Now he's already in in California.

718
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: Actually famous was based on in your Office, No no, no.

719
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: Then we had Then we got a real office which

720
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: was where on Sunset Boulevard, and it was owned by

721
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: Hoagy Carmichael. You're talking about, No, no, the cluster of

722
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: right building, the ones that that were ultimately Geffen Records,

723
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: right by the Jaguar dealership Rex Block East East. But

724
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: we started out with the upstairs of that first building,

725
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: right okay, which had like four or five officers, and

726
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: above us Hogy Carmichael, who owned the building, was living

727
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: and he would we would see him come down to

728
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: go to the mailbox in his pajamas and his and

729
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: his uh bathrobe, and he would say things like I

730
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: love the fucking the publishing business. So okay, Now that

731
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: does at that point Hoagi owns the building? Yes, once

732
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: David comes, does that change the dynamic of the business.

733
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: We started to grow very quickly. We started to sign

734
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: lots of clients. He um, he works out a deal

735
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: with Ahmed to start Asylum Records. We managed all the

736
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 1: acts on Asylum and he was playing he was playing

737
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: three dimensional uh Monopoly, and Elliot and I were in

738
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: the music business. Okay. Now in that era, let's slow

739
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: down from it. At some point, Irving Asoff comes to

740
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: work for the company. Okay. Irving is living in Champlain, Illinois,

741
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: and he's booking um Ario speed James Gang. Okay, so

742
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: David sees some real potential. So he comes into the

743
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: office and he and I share in office. He's like

744
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: on the other end of the thing, and um they

745
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: didn't want the James Gang, and they didn't want Rio Speedwagon.

746
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 1: They wanted him to book Joanie and Neil and Crosby Stills,

747
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: Nation and Young. Oh there's another part to this, Crosby

748
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: Stills Young part. How that got connected. Well, let's finish

749
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 1: the Irving set back to Irving was in my office

750
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: at the other end, and you know, he was um

751
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: and and and during this period of time, we kind

752
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: of put the Eagles together as we're trying to create

753
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: another supergroup, you know. And we did these rehearsals in

754
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: the in the Troubadour. And at one time we had

755
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: four acoustic guitar players. We had j D Souther, Jackson Brown,

756
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: Um Bernie Letton was a genuine musician guitar player, and

757
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: then Um and and Glenn, so that wasn't gonna work,

758
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: and and and and we got we got involved with

759
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: Glenn and Don because they were the backup band for

760
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: Linda and j D was dating Linda, so and we

761
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: would all end up with Lucy Zell Adobe. You know,

762
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: it just it was so fucking organic, it was amazing.

763
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: So the when the Eagles actually get down to four players, um,

764
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: I take them up to um to um Aspen and

765
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: there was a club at the base of the mountain.

766
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: In fact, I had this conversation with Don not so

767
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 1: long ago, because I thought it was the bell the

768
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: belly up yea, but it was called the double Diamond.

769
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: That knows the different name before that but in the

770
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: same rule. Yes, okay. So so I had this conversation

771
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: and Don Don corrected me because Don likes to correct me. No,

772
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: I love him too, by the way, you know, only

773
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: you know, here's here's the problem with the Jonis and

774
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: the Neils and all of these people you meet them

775
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: for ten minutes, you see a slice of who they are.

776
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: You have no idea who they are, so whatever emotional

777
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: connection you made in that ten minutes, you make this

778
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: judgment about who they are. But you know, okay, but

779
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: you really knew them, but okay, so okay. I go

780
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: to ask them because I needed to put them in

781
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: a place for like two weeks, two or three or

782
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: four shows a night, and I took them to ask

783
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,919
Speaker 1: me so I could go skiing. There was the only

784
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: reason we picked this club and askment. They would do

785
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: four shows a night, for seven days a week for

786
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: two weeks. It was like the theory I had in

787
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: my brain was that they this was gonna be their Hamburg, Germany.

788
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: And I like the Beatles, yes, so so I you know,

789
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: I would ski most of the day and then I

790
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: would sit there and about the second show, which was

791
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: about nine o'clock, I would fall over and fall asleep,

792
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: and I would miss the last two shows every night.

793
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 1: But I had a great time, and did the audience

794
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: like them? Well, you know, they started out nobody who

795
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: exactly so so they'd be you know, twenty people, third night,

796
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: forty people. End of the first week packed By the

797
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: next week, people were waiting in line to get in

798
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: and they didn't know who they were. I didn't care.

799
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: Did they call themselves Eagles at that point? No, No,

800
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: they They may have by the end of this. But

801
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: what happened during that two weeks since they became a band,

802
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 1: They really became a band that Hamburg formula worked. And

803
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: did they get along back then? Yeah, well they were

804
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: in heaven. You gotta remember, when you start out on

805
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: this journey, you're so happy that you're playing music and

806
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: people like it, and you've got this thing going. The

807
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: personalities don't matter as you start to become more successful.

808
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: Personalities are what you're left with when when the program

809
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 1: is in place, now you start to say, wait a minute,

810
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: who is that fucking guy? Okay, so how does Irving

811
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: figure into this? Okay? So Irving is working in the

812
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: office and he's booking Joanie and Neil and you know,

813
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: and and and he takes Um, his accountant, Um John

814
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 1: Barrack sets him up down the street to manage Ario

815
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: Speedwagon and James Gang and Dan Fogelberg because he doesn't

816
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: want to let go of them, and David and Elliott

817
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,479
Speaker 1: didn't want him and didn't want those clients. So down

818
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 1: the street from us was you know John who really

819
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: sweet guy an today, Yeah, working with Journey and other people.

820
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: Lives up north, Okay, so continue there. So like less

821
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,919
Speaker 1: than a year, right, and the first Eagles record comes

822
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 1: out and there there well, I went on tour with Neil.

823
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: We did a Canadian tour and the and the Eagles

824
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: were the opening act and they were fucking great. They

825
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 1: were just great. And hell was in the throngs of

826
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: of Danny Witten from Crazy Horse and Bruce Barry o'deine

827
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: and he wrote this tonight, Tonight's the night. Then they

828
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: went into the s I R And recorded this whole

829
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: thing and he kind of purged his demons. So he

830
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: came out of there feeling really good. But the record

831
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: was what he was, a big success. No, but there's

832
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 1: a there are a couple of songs on that record,

833
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: the Needle and the Damage Done is Wanted, the belt Needle,

834
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: the Damage Done is on is on the Heart of

835
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: is on Harvest next the next record after that. But

836
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: he wrote it in there anyway, so you know, they

837
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 1: were you know, they were out of tune and there

838
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: were lots of imperfections. But he didn't care. But but

839
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: Harvest came out before that. Yes, but it might have

840
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: been recorded. But continue, Okay, wait wait, So Harvest was

841
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: this huge hit after which these two tragic events happened.

842
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: He went in and recorded this, right. He also went

843
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: on tour and played all origin little material. What no,

844
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: I'm telling you a story. So so we went out

845
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: on tour in Canada was the precursor to the American tour,

846
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: which was supposed to be the Harvest tour. Okay, So

847
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 1: in Canada he plays Tonight's Tonight from beginning to end,

848
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: and people getting antsie, you know, and he says to them,

849
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 1: if you just hang in there with me, I'll play

850
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: stuff you've heard before. So we get to the end

851
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 1: of the album and he would start it over again. Yes,

852
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: legendary story. And people left. They left because they were

853
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: buying tickets to hear the Harvest. By the time we

854
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: got to America, Elliott and David put their foot down

855
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: and said this is not going to work. So then

856
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: he did the Harvest. Okay did he was? He consciously

857
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: aware of the fact that this would be negative for

858
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: his career. Neil has never cared about his career. Do

859
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: you care about money. He was doing fine. Okay, so anyway,

860
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: but but yes he did care. Okay, So Barrick is

861
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,439
Speaker 1: down the street. The Eagles open in Canada. You're telling

862
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: me that's the Irving story. Okay, So the Eagles are

863
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 1: still within uh what's now called Geff and Roberts management.

864
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: You knows, my name was not on Okay, So I was,

865
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: like I said, I was down the end of the hall.

866
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: That was the Bob Cratchett you know. Anyway, Um, but

867
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: I was on that tour in Canada, and the Eagles

868
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,439
Speaker 1: opened up and they kicked ass, and then Neil did

869
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: this challenge to his audience, how much can you take?

870
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: You know? He found out. So by the time they

871
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: got to America. So somewhere by the end of that tour, Um,

872
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: Irving calls up and and he's on the road with

873
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: the Eagles and the road manager. No, no, just on

874
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: as a management saying. I was not the manager either. Okay,

875
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: we had actual road manager because we didn't know what

876
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 1: the funk we would do, you know, you know, we

877
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: were there to collect the money and make sure that

878
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: the band didn't call Elliott and David. You know that

879
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: there was somebody right anyway, So, um, so Elliot gets

880
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 1: this call from Irving, and to this day, I don't

881
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 1: know if he was serious or it was a joke.

882
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,879
Speaker 1: He's on the phone and Irving is telling him he's

883
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: leaving and he's taking the Eagles, and Elliott goes, who

884
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:34,919
Speaker 1: are the Eagles? Really? I think he was joking. I'd

885
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: like to think he was joking when Elliott was strown

886
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: a lot, so it could have been. Okay, And did

887
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: it go down that smoothly? Did Elliot didn't give a ship? Look,

888
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 1: you have to understand, the Eagles were making five or

889
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: six thousand dollars a night, and that summer we had

890
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 1: Crosby Stills, Nash and Young Ad on tour, you know,

891
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: playing stadiums okay, and we had Joni Mitchell out on tour,

892
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: and we we were just flying so high and and

893
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: the Eagles were basically a baby band. Okay. Anybody else

894
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: in the stable at that point, oh fuck yeah, there's

895
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: lots of people, you know, okay, but my my my

896
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: range of vision was okay. So at some point Asylum

897
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: record starts up and there's the Jackson Brown album, that

898
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: the Doheny album, the j D saw the album, but

899
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: the three big albums on Asylum Records was Joe Joe Gunn,

900
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 1: Jackson Brown, and Joni Mitchell. And there was this moment

901
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: in the first nine months of that enterprise where we

902
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: had three top five records at the same time. Okay,

903
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: at what point does David say, I'm out of here?

904
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: He says to to Ahmed, he said, um, I want

905
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 1: this as my label, and Ahmed comes up with this

906
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 1: idea about marrying a side them to Electra okay, and

907
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 1: having David run both of them. So David goes over

908
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: and Elliott and I had the management company, although I

909
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: did work over at a lecture for about six months

910
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: because David wanted to find out everything that was to

911
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 1: find out about everybody. So I went over. There is

912
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: like a plant, you know, Okay, you're making any money now.

913
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: I was making good money all the way through. Once

914
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: it started hit. They took care of you know, well

915
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: that I didn't. You know, David has I don't know

916
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: ten billion dollars, certainly billions. I don't have that right,

917
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,359
Speaker 1: so maybe I didn't get taken care of as well

918
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: as I should have. Okay, So David moves on and

919
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: you're there with Elliott yeah. Well, first I go over

920
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 1: to Electure. For about six months, I was in the

921
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: artist development and basically I came to the conclusion that

922
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 1: they didn't really understand that you're supposed to actually work

923
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: for the artist and not the artists work for you.

924
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: I was very unhappy. I went back to the management company.

925
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: So now it's just me and l IT and now

926
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: it's Lookout Management. It goes back to Lookout Management. Okay.

927
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 1: At what point do you move on from Lookout Management? Um?

928
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I did twelve years total, and

929
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: I just thought, you know, I could do this by myself.

930
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: It took me about three years to figure out. I

931
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 1: really I didn't know what the funk I was doing, Okay,

932
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 1: but what was the incentive? Was Danny Goldberg say hey,

933
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: let's do this. Danny came a few years later. Okay,

934
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: So you leave and you call it what? Um, what

935
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: do I call it? Lookout? Okay? And Elliott Elliot Roberts, No, no, Elliott,

936
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: it was Lookout. I don't remember what I called it. Okay,

937
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: who are your acts? Um? I had mostly publishing and

938
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: you know, and um I had Lonnie Hall, her Malfort's wife.

939
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: Some really weird ship, you know. But then I, you know,

940
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: Danny and I both were pursuing Bonnie Raid, and instead

941
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: of banging our heads together, we decided, okay, let's do

942
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: the US together. He had an office at A at

943
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: A and M Records, and I was working with Lonnie

944
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,760
Speaker 1: and Herb. I did a tour with Herb in South America.

945
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: You know, I I was doing fine, okay, But so

946
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: there was no thought I shouldn't have left Elliott. I

947
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 1: shouldn't have left Elliott, but I, you know, of course

948
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't have a plan. You know, It's

949
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: not like I was I was scoping out my ascension,

950
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: you know. I just was going with the flow. Okay.

951
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: So you hook up with Danny and it's Bonnie before

952
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: he and Belinda Carlisle okay. And he's he's already done

953
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: with twentieth Century Fox okay. And and he's got a

954
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: record company at AT A and M, and his act

955
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: is Um Cochrane. What I wish I had a rocket launcher,

956
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 1: Bruce Coobert, Bruce Comber. Anyway, so okay, he's got Bruce

957
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 1: Cockburn and and he's also put out a record with

958
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: Stevin Nick. Right. That was with what's his name from Woodstock,

959
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: Paul Fish. Okay, but that labels there they separate. Yeah,

960
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: and at this point Danny's out of that label, right, Okay,

961
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: how does he get? Blinda Carlisle, I get? How do

962
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: you get? So? When I worked with David and Elliott,

963
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: the Go Gos came to see me and they wanted

964
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 1: us to manage them. And they were sucked up. I

965
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: mean they were just sucked up, drunk, disorderly high, whatever

966
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 1: it was. I wanted nothing to do with them. Two

967
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: years later, Belinda and Charlotte come and visit me and

968
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: say they want me because I turned them down because

969
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 1: they were sucked up. They got sober and they sought

970
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: me out. So I ended up managing this was This

971
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,359
Speaker 1: is when the Go Goes are essentially finished. They put

972
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: out their two albums. Okay, Belinda as a solo artist. Again.

973
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 1: I thought one of my best jobs as a manager

974
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 1: because Belinda was not a great singer. And I'm being kind, okay,

975
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: and um we made huge success for her. Now you

976
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: got sued on Heaven is a Place on Earth? Remember

977
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 1: that one of the songs. There was a big lawsuit.

978
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: But she didn't write that song. I know, I know

979
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: the people who did write it. So the producer, um

980
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: I forgot his name. God, he's a great producer. Anyway,

981
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: he wrote the song and so he had some trouble

982
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: with that, but it didn't affect us. Okay. So she

983
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: was very happy with the situation she had. She was thrilled.

984
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: Are you kidding? We had two or three huge hits.

985
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 1: Um I got, um, I got what's the actress's name

986
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 1: that was in Woody Allen's movie? Uh, Diane Keat. I

987
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: got Dane Keaton to direct her first video. How did

988
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: you get make that happen? I asked? How did you

989
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: know her? Yeah? I had met her. How did you

990
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: know Diane Keaton? I don't remember. How did I know

991
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: Kevin Pollock? I don't okay who we were hanging with

992
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: earlier before the podcast began. But okay, so now it's

993
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 1: Bonnie Ray. What year are we in? But it's years

994
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: before she has her breakthrough? Okay, I take her on.

995
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: Um she's on Warner Brothers. They want to dump her. Okay.

996
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: She's made nine records for them, right, none of them

997
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 1: commercially successful. One of them she had a song that

998
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: run Runaway that did well and then they wanted more

999
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: of that, and she really she didn't get the program,

1000
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't she funked up at the time too.

1001
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: She was drinking, you know, she thought of herself as

1002
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: a blue singer, and she thought, you know that that

1003
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: bottle of m what's the the bourbon or something that

1004
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 1: Jack Dan she thought that was part of the program,

1005
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: you know. And she was a bit overweight and um,

1006
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: and she was kind of miserable, you know, her situation

1007
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 1: at Warner Brothers. She had we delivered a record to

1008
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: extricate her, and then I took her over to I

1009
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: don't think they put that they even put that record

1010
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 1: out at that time, not so as you notice, but

1011
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: they did because they had a contractual obligation. Nine Lives

1012
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: was the name of that record. Yeah, with total stiff,

1013
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: yes without When she left Warner Brothers, did you already

1014
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 1: have the Deally capital? So I had her playing clubs,

1015
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: in fact, the night of the Grammys. Um, she I

1016
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: had her playing little clubs to clubs because that's all

1017
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 1: she could sell her redeveloping her No, that's where she was,

1018
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: you know. And she sent me a picture of the

1019
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: bathroom at this club in Buffalo, which was the literal

1020
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: interpretation of a ship hole. Okay. She sends me this

1021
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 1: picture and she says, how could you do this to me? Okay?

1022
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: And it crushed me because I didn't want to do

1023
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: that to her. So I kind of redoubled my efforts.

1024
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: And um, when she got the four Grammys. The night

1025
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: of the four Grams and we're standing backstage, she's got

1026
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 1: her shoes off and we're waiting for the limousine. I

1027
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: said to her, you know what pushed us over the top,

1028
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: that club in Buffalo. Okay, So now she's off off

1029
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. Okay, so we do We do the Milwaukee

1030
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: Blues Fest. I have Bonnie on one end of the

1031
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: park and the Summer Fest. Summer Fest, so Bonnie at

1032
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: one end of the park and they have Blinda at

1033
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 1: the other end of the park and we all hang

1034
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: out and Charlotte and Belinda get on Bonnie's case about,

1035
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: you know, getting sober, and they fucking drag her to

1036
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: an AA meeting and they get her fucking paying attention,

1037
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 1: and then she starts to kind of realized that she's

1038
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: got to if she wants to survive, she has to

1039
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: kind of reorient her vision of the world, and she

1040
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 1: gets sober, and she loses weight and she gets healthy

1041
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: and then we make nick of time. Okay. In the interim,

1042
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: during that period of time, Joe Smith moves from Warner

1043
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 1: Brothers to Capitol, Right, that's my question. Was him or

1044
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: Bourbon because he brings Burman there too. Yeah, but it

1045
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 1: was Joe Smith and and Tim Divine and um and

1046
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 1: who was the head of A and R who's now

1047
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:10,439
Speaker 1: at Concord. Oh God, I'm so bad with name. What's

1048
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 1: his name? Okay? So I take him Divine out to

1049
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: the to the club and Trincus right to see Bonnie. Right,

1050
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 1: you know, Bonnie there was never any doubt of her talent.

1051
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: It was her lifestyle that interfered with her career. She

1052
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 1: oh she could. I mean, she has perfect pitch. I'm

1053
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: part of my sales pitch was I would say to

1054
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: people that she was the number one female slide guitar

1055
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: player in the world, not that there's a big club there.

1056
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: There wasn't. It was a legitimate position, right, Okay, it

1057
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: was part of my sales pitch. So you know, I

1058
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: convinced Joe Smith to give us basically an entry level

1059
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: deal for like a hundred and twenty five thou dollars

1060
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 1: when other people are getting half a million, okay, And

1061
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: I get Don was. Don Was did one song with

1062
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 1: Bonnie for a Disney album for UM called stay Awake,

1063
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: where she sings the lullaby that Dumbo's mom sings the

1064
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: Dumbo and she sounds breathtaking. And Don Was never produced

1065
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: anything except was not was, And I asked Don if

1066
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: he would produce Bonnie, and I said, here's the budget,

1067
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: not one fucking pennymore, all in your fee, everything, And

1068
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: he makes nick of Time for like a hundred and

1069
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: twenty six thou dollars. Okay. Now, Bonnie wrote Nick of

1070
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 1: Time two songs on that right, What was the other

1071
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: one she wrote? Uh? I forgot okay. But but Nick

1072
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 1: of Time was not the big hit I know it was.

1073
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: It was a John uh John Hyatt song. Um fuck

1074
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 1: they I know. There are so many hits after that. Okay.

1075
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 1: So we had three hits off that record, right, and

1076
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: the record sold eight million copies. And here's my moment

1077
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 1: of clarity and my genius. I had one moment of

1078
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: genius in my entire fucking career. Okay. I convinced Joe

1079
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: Smith we put out the record in like October. They

1080
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 1: have thirteen releases in that quarter. Her priority was number thirteen. Okay,

1081
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: fourth quarter, that's when record companies make all their money, right,

1082
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 1: But she was not getting in. But I got um.

1083
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:33,720
Speaker 1: I got Dennis Quaid to be in her video. Dennis

1084
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: was dating a friend of my wife's and uh and

1085
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: and so I convinced. And also he's a big bondy

1086
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: rate anyway, So Dennis is in the video and it

1087
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 1: blows up on v H one. At that time, that's

1088
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: that was your path. So all of a sudden nick

1089
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 1: of time is starting to go up the priorities for

1090
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: capital do you want me to wait for? Okay? So

1091
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: the by the end of the year, we sold about

1092
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 1: three hundred maybe four, somewhere between three hundred and four

1093
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 1: hundred thousand, and and Danny and I thought we won

1094
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 1: the fucking lottery. Okay, it was huge success. And then

1095
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: she gets all these nominations. So in January I go

1096
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: into Joe Smith and I say it to Joe, there's

1097
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 1: no chance she's going to Yeah, okay, so you're going

1098
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: to Joe Smith and I convince him that she's not

1099
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 1: going to win any Grammys. But our marketing strategy should

1100
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 1: be four time nominated because she got all those nominations.

1101
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: So we did end caps in the stores, and we

1102
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 1: did these displays, and we did this whole campaign. Did

1103
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: those cell records. Let me don't get ahead of me, okay.

1104
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 1: So this was all in the anticipation of the Grammys,

1105
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 1: and I convinced them to spend like a hundred thousand,

1106
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 1: which was an enormous amount of on Annie rate. Basically,

1107
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: what I was asking him to do was take the

1108
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 1: profit on the three or four hundred thousand records we

1109
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 1: sold and reinvested in this scheme I had, you know,

1110
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: so if I was wrong, you made no money. If

1111
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 1: I was right, we'd make more money. So she wins

1112
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 1: the four Grammys. It's one of the best nights I

1113
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: ever had. Danny and I were fucking crying in the

1114
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 1: theater and um and before the last one, which was

1115
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 1: Record of the Year, the big one, Bonnie's halfway out

1116
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: the door because she's convinced. She's got her shoes in

1117
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 1: her hand, and she's got the other three Grammys, and

1118
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: this is as good as life is ever going to get.

1119
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 1: And then she wins the other one. She's on the

1120
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: front page or at least on the entertainment section in

1121
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: every newspaper in America, holding four Grammys. She was the

1122
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 1: star of the Grammys. Now all those end caps that

1123
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 1: have been sitting there for two weeks, we're out selling Madonna. Okay.

1124
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: We sold two and a half million records in the

1125
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: next five weeks. Getting the product in the stores that

1126
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 1: was also probably a problem. Well, there were there were

1127
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 1: lots of times where the shipments were behind the orders.

1128
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: But give Capital credit, they hustled their ass off. They

1129
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: but you keep in mind, for the marketing program that

1130
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: we had set up for the nominations, we had stocked

1131
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 1: those stores, so we had about a two week delay,

1132
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: so they had about five six days to keep the

1133
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: place stocked. But we were fucking kicking s anyway, Okay,

1134
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: at what point does Danny then jump to Atlantic Records. Well,

1135
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: we're down the line some you know. You know, Dan

1136
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 1: and I were together for eleven or twelve years. We

1137
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 1: had John Silver come into the company, We got the

1138
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 1: Beastie Boys, and we had Nirvana, and we had all

1139
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: of this great stuff. We had clients that were and

1140
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 1: who were you in charge over? How did it work there?

1141
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: When I was in charge of John and John was

1142
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 1: in charge of the day Today on the Beastie Boys

1143
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 1: and and Nirvana. But you know when they went to

1144
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 1: South America and they went to Europe, I went along,

1145
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, so you were there when Nirvana blew up? Yeah?

1146
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:13,520
Speaker 1: What was that? Like? That was the most fun I've

1147
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 1: ever had in the music business. First of all, I

1148
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: loved them. I thought this was the most exciting band

1149
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 1: I had ever seen. I mean every time he performed.

1150
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 1: So here's how here's how it happened. Before the record

1151
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 1: came out, Sonic Youth took them on tour for like,

1152
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, fifty or a hundred shows, and they

1153
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 1: fucking kicked Ask the first record they made on sub Pop,

1154
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 1: this bleach really sucked. Okay did they make that record?

1155
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:42,920
Speaker 1: When they made that record, were you managing them already? No? No,

1156
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 1: I didn't think so. But um, what was the bass

1157
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: player current, Chris nova Stella? No, no, no. In Sonic Youth, Um,

1158
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 1: Mary took Keim Gordon and here the tall guy. Yeah,

1159
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: like I said, this is this is why I'm never

1160
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 1: going to get this on paper anyway. He said, this

1161
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 1: is going to be the next big thing. And he

1162
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 1: was right. He was right about Dinosaur Jr. He was

1163
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: right about the Breeders. He was he was kind of

1164
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 1: our in house and our guys. Okay, so did you

1165
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 1: have Dinosaur Jr. And the Breeders too? Okay, so as

1166
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 1: well as like four or five other kind of punky bands. Okay.

1167
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 1: And then Nirvana just blows up literally overnight. No, it was,

1168
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: you know, everyone's an overnight sensation. It just takes a

1169
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 1: couple of years. They opened for Sonic Youth for a

1170
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: year before they made never Mind. Okay, then they made

1171
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 1: never Mind, and we're working, you know, the precursor to that.

1172
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 1: And this is John Silver's moment of fucking clarity. The

1173
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,879
Speaker 1: record comes out and he gets all the independent stores

1174
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 1: in America to only sell Nirvana record one night, like

1175
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 1: Saturday night, put out speakers, you know, all the mom

1176
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 1: and pop stores and at that time they were five

1177
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 1: thousands of okay, y, and we sell I don't know,

1178
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand records in like the weekend that the

1179
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 1: record comes out Monday morning, then the number one selling

1180
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:12,719
Speaker 1: record in America and radio has never heard the record.

1181
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:18,599
Speaker 1: This was John Silver's moment of genius. Okay, but every

1182
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 1: kid in America had become aware of them because they

1183
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 1: were out on tour with Sonic Youth and they were

1184
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:28,120
Speaker 1: like this underground conversation that was going on. So there

1185
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:31,600
Speaker 1: was an anticipation for this record and then it delivered,

1186
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So now now radio is catching up.

1187
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 1: So I would I would be on the phone kind

1188
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: of working my my promotion people and everything. And there

1189
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 1: were radio stations that say, why am I playing this record?

1190
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:46,719
Speaker 1: And I would say, well, check the sales in your city.

1191
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 1: It's the number one selling record and use in your city,

1192
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:52,519
Speaker 1: maybe you should consider it. And then they would listen

1193
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 1: to teen Spirit and say, I can't play this fucking record.

1194
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 1: I said, if you don't, everyone else will. And you

1195
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 1: you know. So with in three weeks, the record blew

1196
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 1: up so big the record company could not keep up.

1197
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 1: They sold out every copy. There was a two to

1198
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: three week delay on this record, and instead of crushing

1199
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 1: the record, it created a demand for the record that

1200
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: I've never seen. Okay. Also, the video had a big,

1201
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: guess part in that success. But the video came like

1202
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 1: when we went to radio. You got to remember that

1203
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:31,879
Speaker 1: success actually already happened. The the the beat between the success,

1204
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:36,920
Speaker 1: the Monday morning sales numbers from John's Midnight Madness Scheme

1205
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 1: already hit the marketplace. The kids knew it was a hit.

1206
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: Radio was just catching up, and then the video came

1207
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 1: and that's when things went okay. And then Danny decides

1208
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 1: to leave what kind of emotional spaces I leave you in? Well,

1209
01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:00,720
Speaker 1: you know, you interviewed, you interviewed Danny. Danny didn't know

1210
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 1: I existed, or apparently in his book or in anything,

1211
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:08,679
Speaker 1: there's a there's this space between him and reality. And

1212
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 1: I guess the only way I'm ever going to get

1213
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 1: the credit in that situation I deserve is to write

1214
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:18,759
Speaker 1: my book and leave his name out, which maybe I will. Okay, Um,

1215
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 1: it's called Gold Mountain at this point, right, tell us

1216
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:24,680
Speaker 1: how that name comes together. He had a company in

1217
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 1: New York, um called Gold Something, you know. And I

1218
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: didn't give a shot at okay, you know, And and

1219
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: I lived on Lookout Mountain, so it's close enough for me,

1220
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 1: you know. Anyway, So you know, there was a moment

1221
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:41,799
Speaker 1: in time where we ended up with thirty or forty

1222
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 1: clients and we were doing amazing, And there was a

1223
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 1: moment where we had three top five albums. We had

1224
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:55,800
Speaker 1: Bonnie rate a lot of miles with that blue Velbot velvet. Yeah,

1225
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 1: she was a piece of work anyway, Um and I

1226
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 1: forgot the one might have been Vanovana was like number

1227
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 1: four or five. Bonnie was like number two and a

1228
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 1: lot of minds. Actually, just to stop on Bonnie. I

1229
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 1: prefer the album after that as good as Nick and

1230
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:15,320
Speaker 1: time as luck of the drawing better better, because what

1231
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:19,720
Speaker 1: happened is she and Don kind of connected in a

1232
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 1: very amazing creative way. Don was one of the best

1233
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 1: producers money can buy, just great. Most producers would argue

1234
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 1: with the client or say it has to be this way,

1235
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 1: and Bonnie was very for both and very energetic and

1236
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:40,879
Speaker 1: you know, a strong woman and he would say something softly,

1237
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 1: so she had to be quiet to hear. And that's

1238
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:50,320
Speaker 1: how it all worked. And okay, so how does Danny leave? Well,

1239
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 1: I think, um, uh, you know, Danny was always a

1240
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:56,720
Speaker 1: record company guy, and he had a h He was

1241
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 1: a press agent to me for LEDs up Planets at

1242
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 1: a White Swan Swans and then um and I think

1243
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 1: he worked at Atlantic for a period of time. Or

1244
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 1: Um was the guy who ended up running everything. Doug Barris,

1245
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: Doug Marris. Okay, So Doug saw him as great potential.

1246
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 1: So Doug offered him a job at Atlantic Records, which

1247
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 1: he took with the understanding that at some point he

1248
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:26,680
Speaker 1: would become head of Atlantic. But then the job at

1249
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers opened up and he went over to Warner

1250
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 1: Brothers to run Warner Brothers. Well forgetting Danny, because we

1251
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 1: know Danny's story. When he walks to Atlantic, he's a

1252
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 1: out on the management thing, and he sells his share

1253
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 1: to Michael Cole. Okay, So now I'm okay, wait, wait,

1254
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 1: just to be clear, since we're going this deep, how

1255
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 1: who has how much? Why does he sell his fifty

1256
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:55,640
Speaker 1: to Michael Cole? Because Michael Cole was going to give it,

1257
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 1: gave him a lot of money, I would assume. Yes,

1258
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:00,400
Speaker 1: So now in partners with Michael Cole, which is not

1259
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 1: a tragedy because, to be honest, you know, as much

1260
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 1: as I love Dandy, not the greatest manager in the world,

1261
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:10,640
Speaker 1: a great pr person and also kind of a visionary.

1262
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 1: He could see further ahead on what's going on than

1263
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 1: I could because I was my head was down, you

1264
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,559
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Let me ask you if Cole

1265
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 1: paid that much for fifty Did you think of selling

1266
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 1: they're fifty to now? It never occurred to me, and

1267
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have done it anyway. What would I do right, Okay,

1268
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:31,599
Speaker 1: just to get one paiday, continue to do the job, okay,

1269
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:34,640
Speaker 1: but as coal and an active partner. No, that's what

1270
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 1: was appealing. You know. He had Molson beer money, and

1271
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:42,959
Speaker 1: he had a merchandising company, and we signed this contract

1272
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 1: and basically this, you know, I would have to go

1273
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,960
Speaker 1: to Toronto and project what we were going to earn

1274
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 1: over the next six months. And I would go there

1275
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 1: and say, I don't know what the funk we're going

1276
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:57,120
Speaker 1: to do in the next six months. Maybe we could

1277
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: do this, maybe we could do that, Maybe you know,

1278
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,240
Speaker 1: make this much, or maybe we won't make anything. It's

1279
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 1: the fucking management business. The client says, I don't feel

1280
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 1: like going on on tour. You know, what are you

1281
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 1: gonna do? Right? It's not the fucking beer business, you know.

1282
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 1: So there was some conflict there. So and and also

1283
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 1: the truxt of it was I think Michael made the

1284
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:22,320
Speaker 1: investment in the management business to to enhance the merchandising business.

1285
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 1: But part of my deal with him was that if

1286
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 1: we were going to use. I forgot the name of

1287
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 1: that company that he had, the merchantman with Norman. Yeah, anyway, anyway,

1288
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:38,559
Speaker 1: whatever the name it, the merchant you see what's brain damage?

1289
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 1: And we got the story. Okay. So so there was

1290
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: a clause in the contract that said that if we

1291
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 1: signed any of our clients to the Norman Perry's company.

1292
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:52,719
Speaker 1: No something like that, I know. But anyway, so if

1293
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 1: if we signed the client to the merch company, they

1294
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,639
Speaker 1: would have to give us a blow market deal because

1295
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 1: we can't a double dip. Okay. So within six months

1296
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,080
Speaker 1: they're putting pressure on us to sign the accent at

1297
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 1: a full rate today. And I said, well, you've got

1298
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:12,040
Speaker 1: a choice. You could either take the commission or you

1299
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 1: could make the money on the merge. But you can't

1300
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 1: do both. And that was the kiss of death for them,

1301
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:20,080
Speaker 1: because he had to answer to this board of directors

1302
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 1: with guys with suits and ties. I had never experienced

1303
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:28,519
Speaker 1: this in my life. Goodbye, Oh. Irving brought his half.

1304
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 1: So I was partners with Irving for a blink. Irving,

1305
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:35,759
Speaker 1: John silv and I the best name for any management

1306
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 1: company ever, A's off Stone and silver right. I got that,

1307
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 1: asked partners. How long did that last? Six months? Okay?

1308
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:49,040
Speaker 1: But if Irving paid for it, and he was and

1309
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:50,920
Speaker 1: he was a passive partner, what did he end up

1310
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 1: with when it blew up? He's probably still mad at

1311
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: me for this. We bought him out and it had

1312
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 1: to do with the axes before taxes dollars or after

1313
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:05,160
Speaker 1: taxes dollars. And he thought I screwed him. I said,

1314
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're supposed to be a big macha.

1315
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 1: You're supposed to have accountants and lawyers. Didn't they take

1316
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:13,800
Speaker 1: care of you? This is not my fault, you know.

1317
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 1: So did he end up losing money or just not?

1318
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 1: He just didn't didn't make the thought he was gonna make. Okay,

1319
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:22,559
Speaker 1: So it breaks up and goes three ways, right, So

1320
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 1: and and John took the occasion to go off on

1321
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 1: his own. And I had Bonnie Rate and Tracy Chapman

1322
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:32,160
Speaker 1: and the kind of the older, more established artists. Tom

1323
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 1: Cochrane from Canada was huge success. I had a bunch

1324
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,639
Speaker 1: of artists, but they were my generation, or at least

1325
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:44,000
Speaker 1: within shouting distance of my generation. And John took Nirvana

1326
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 1: was gone at that point, and we had no idea

1327
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 1: that that um food fighters would end up being Dave

1328
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 1: Grohl would be such a big We knew Dave Grohl

1329
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:57,520
Speaker 1: could sing. We had no idea he had that star quality,

1330
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:00,920
Speaker 1: and he does, by the way, right. Also one of

1331
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 1: the nicest people in the business. Just a doll. Okay,

1332
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 1: I'll tell you. I'll tell you. The first thing he

1333
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:09,960
Speaker 1: did with the big, first, big Nirvana check. Everybody else

1334
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 1: was buying houses and cars and doing all this things.

1335
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 1: He bought his mom the house Hamish a kid. Well,

1336
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,559
Speaker 1: I don't have anything to say. I've seen him in

1337
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 1: Canada with his mother's mother wrote a book about the

1338
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:27,280
Speaker 1: mothers of rockers. Okay, so you have your acts. At

1339
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:30,679
Speaker 1: what point do you have an operation in Nashville? Well,

1340
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:34,759
Speaker 1: Bert Stein was Bert Stein who runs the Nashville office.

1341
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 1: Danny Burton and I started the company early on. Bert

1342
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:44,160
Speaker 1: went to Nashville. I don't know why. And he has

1343
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 1: a whole cadre of clients and we're still kind of

1344
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:52,880
Speaker 1: in business in a quasi partnership. Okay. So ultimately Oaks

1345
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 1: Silva goes his own way. You're left with these acts.

1346
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 1: So then what happens for you? I worked my a

1347
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:01,439
Speaker 1: off for the next ten twenty years you know, and

1348
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 1: then how does it end with these acts? Some of them? Well,

1349
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 1: I mean I managed Bonnie Rate for seventeen years. Okay,

1350
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 1: there was a moment in time when she understood she

1351
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:12,800
Speaker 1: was never going to make any more money per night

1352
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:17,760
Speaker 1: or per year above what she was making. So if

1353
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:21,639
Speaker 1: she wanted to make her net money, then everybody had

1354
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,680
Speaker 1: to get less. So she gave me a list, and

1355
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:27,520
Speaker 1: I went to the accountant, to the agency, to everybody.

1356
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: I didn't realize I was on that list. And at

1357
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 1: the end of that I said, no, I couldn't. I couldn't. Well,

1358
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:38,160
Speaker 1: we'll work for reduced rate. Well, I wouldn't because I

1359
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:40,040
Speaker 1: have all these other clients and if I do it

1360
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:43,040
Speaker 1: for you, then my business is fucked. But she was

1361
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:47,120
Speaker 1: such a We had a sunset arrangement, so she paid me,

1362
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 1: you know, reduced right over a period of time, which

1363
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 1: was the best three years of my relationship with her,

1364
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:55,760
Speaker 1: because I started to love her because I would get

1365
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 1: checks and never have to work. And who else were

1366
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:01,800
Speaker 1: you working with at that point, Tracy Chapman, I mean,

1367
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 1: I don't know did you? Were you? When Chapman had

1368
01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 1: her comeback hit? That was me? That's I'm the comeback,

1369
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:10,200
Speaker 1: kid man. You know she had the first hit, Fast Card.

1370
01:20:10,280 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 1: She did out a hit for a long time, wait

1371
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: fast Car. Elliott was her manager, okay, and we were

1372
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:19,880
Speaker 1: not together. She sold five million copies, then the second

1373
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 1: record did about half that, and then I think there

1374
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:24,599
Speaker 1: was a third record, I believe so, which sold less

1375
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:28,479
Speaker 1: than five and my I wooed her for a very

1376
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,640
Speaker 1: long period of time because I had to overcome the

1377
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:34,600
Speaker 1: fact that Elliott was my best friend and she was

1378
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 1: angry at him. But within a year I kind of

1379
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:40,960
Speaker 1: got her around, and the first record we put out

1380
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:45,480
Speaker 1: was a New Beginning, which did actually better than Fast Car.

1381
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:48,240
Speaker 1: Right that that song was other than she didn't write it,

1382
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:50,760
Speaker 1: but it was she did. She did, Yes, she did.

1383
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 1: So it was an old blues shuffle exactly, um um um.

1384
01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 1: I forgot the name of the song, okay, okay. So

1385
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 1: so she had done that song when she was a

1386
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:06,680
Speaker 1: busker in Harvard Square and she would do it in

1387
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:09,880
Speaker 1: her show every night. It was just just throwaway, little

1388
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:15,960
Speaker 1: blue shuffle, give me one reason, okay. And David Kirshenbaum

1389
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 1: was the producer, of course, and I convinced the two

1390
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:22,120
Speaker 1: of them that they had to record that song okay,

1391
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 1: because in her show it was a show stealer, because

1392
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 1: because it was different than all the other songs, it

1393
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:33,720
Speaker 1: was a little blue shuffle. Everyone assumed I forgot the

1394
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:38,240
Speaker 1: blues guy who recorded the song after her. Everybody like,

1395
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:42,960
Speaker 1: within two years, I forgot his Chicago blues guy, old

1396
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 1: buddy guy he recorded the song. Everybody assumed he wrote

1397
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:54,160
Speaker 1: the song. But she wrote the song and he covered it. Okay, Uh,

1398
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:57,280
Speaker 1: did you did you go on Wikipedia? Because if you,

1399
01:21:57,640 --> 01:21:59,360
Speaker 1: if you went through the list of all the clients,

1400
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:01,280
Speaker 1: I could actually remember who I meant it. No, No,

1401
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:04,839
Speaker 1: I didn't go through because I know you, uh whatever.

1402
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:09,360
Speaker 1: So then you know, one would from the outside would

1403
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,200
Speaker 1: think that you made a lot of money in that era.

1404
01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:16,799
Speaker 1: I may have. Do you still have that money? No,

1405
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:20,120
Speaker 1: that's not a chance. Where did that money go? You know?

1406
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:22,400
Speaker 1: I there was a time where I had I was

1407
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:26,320
Speaker 1: supporting five households. I had my wife's mother who was

1408
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:28,400
Speaker 1: in her eighties and nineties, and I had my mother

1409
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 1: who's in the eighties and nineties, and I had my

1410
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:34,639
Speaker 1: two sons and me. And it doesn't last as long.

1411
01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:46,559
Speaker 1: And also somewhere when when when um the the napster

1412
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:50,479
Speaker 1: rat Napster. So let I tell you a great Napster story.

1413
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 1: If you want to hear it, well, finish your thought

1414
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:56,320
Speaker 1: then we'll get to the great Okay. So, you know, slowly,

1415
01:22:56,400 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 1: over a twenty twenty year period, the income from record

1416
01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:07,679
Speaker 1: royalties and publishing is steadily going down, and the touring business,

1417
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:10,599
Speaker 1: because my clients are a little bit older, is not

1418
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 1: going up. It's if I'm doing a good job. I'm

1419
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:17,240
Speaker 1: maintaining you know so, and and you know and I

1420
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:22,639
Speaker 1: had Also I went from Bonnie to Tracy to Ricky

1421
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:30,240
Speaker 1: Lee Jones and I The interesting thing is Bonnie Joni Mitchell,

1422
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:33,719
Speaker 1: Ricky Lee Jones, and my mom we're all born November

1423
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:37,880
Speaker 1: eight or nine. That's pretty amazing. But tell your Napster story. Okay.

1424
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 1: So I'm the keynote speaker at Music BIG's two thousand

1425
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: in Berkeley, California. Because I'm I'm kicking ass, you know.

1426
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 1: So I'm the keynote speaker. I do my whole spiel.

1427
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:55,920
Speaker 1: And this attorney, um god, he was killed driving his

1428
01:23:56,360 --> 01:24:02,880
Speaker 1: riding his bicycle on Milton Owen milt Owen O l

1429
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:07,080
Speaker 1: I n um he was. He was the attorney for

1430
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:11,559
Speaker 1: the kid that started napstin Okay. See takes me and

1431
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:13,280
Speaker 1: sits me down in front of the computer and he

1432
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 1: shows me this. He said, this is gonna fucking just

1433
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 1: be the greatest thing that ever happened. And I got

1434
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:22,800
Speaker 1: up from that seat thinking, we are so fucked. We

1435
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:28,360
Speaker 1: are just fucked if this happens. So, Um, Hillary Rosen

1436
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:31,400
Speaker 1: is head of the r I A A. So I

1437
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:35,000
Speaker 1: call her up and I say, listen, I gotta explain

1438
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 1: what's about to happen to everyone here. At that time

1439
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:43,120
Speaker 1: there were twelve record companies, and you know I either

1440
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:47,679
Speaker 1: met with all of them individually or in some cases

1441
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:50,559
Speaker 1: three or four at a time. Um, what's his name

1442
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 1: from Elektra was now No, no, no, no, the guy

1443
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:59,320
Speaker 1: who originated the Elector come back to me exactly, and

1444
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:02,599
Speaker 1: he became the technical advisor for the Warner Brothers groups,

1445
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:06,600
Speaker 1: much at that point was one of the three biggest. Anyway,

1446
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:11,519
Speaker 1: he got it and no one else got it. And

1447
01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:16,840
Speaker 1: Milt was prepared to sell the format and the thing

1448
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:22,120
Speaker 1: for five million dollars. And I said this twelve record companies,

1449
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:24,920
Speaker 1: I said, you know, we're talking four thousand dollars apiece.

1450
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:29,559
Speaker 1: We should buy this because it is in fact gonna

1451
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:32,680
Speaker 1: funk your business in a way that you have no

1452
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:37,160
Speaker 1: idea what's coming. Okay. So they had all these excuses.

1453
01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:39,240
Speaker 1: First of all, they didn't believe me. Second of all,

1454
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:41,400
Speaker 1: no matter how much I showed them what this was

1455
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:44,840
Speaker 1: and what the future looked like, like, I said, what

1456
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 1: what was his name? Anyway? He used to have a

1457
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:51,320
Speaker 1: private airline thing in Hawaii. When he retired, he had

1458
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 1: a um fuck and his brother and his brother ran

1459
01:25:55,960 --> 01:26:01,559
Speaker 1: Jackals Jackals who was technologically the exactly the only one

1460
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:04,960
Speaker 1: who understood what was coming, okay, And they didn't listen

1461
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:07,960
Speaker 1: to him either. There were all these reasons that they

1462
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 1: couldn't buy it, collectively, anti trust whatever I said, So, okay,

1463
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 1: one of you buy it. You know, we're talking five

1464
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 1: million dollars here. No, it's too much money. This is

1465
01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 1: just the waste of sucking money. You know, at that time,

1466
01:26:20,280 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 1: records were like four or five thousand dollars apiece, and

1467
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 1: you make ten or fifteen or twenty hoping that two

1468
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:29,000
Speaker 1: or three of them would be Okay, I said this,

1469
01:26:29,479 --> 01:26:33,599
Speaker 1: if you invest in this format nothing but money. If

1470
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:35,880
Speaker 1: you don't figure out how to monetize it, it will

1471
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:40,719
Speaker 1: bury you. Okay. So I went back to Milton. He said,

1472
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:44,840
Speaker 1: how about three we could have bought it. We could

1473
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 1: have bought Napster for less than three three million. That's

1474
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:51,679
Speaker 1: how much they spent in legal fees to kill it. Yeah,

1475
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:54,599
Speaker 1: and then they hired me as a consultant. And I

1476
01:26:54,640 --> 01:27:02,120
Speaker 1: did this whole campaign of about um um um respecting copyrights.

1477
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:04,920
Speaker 1: And it happened at a time where I couldn't hire

1478
01:27:05,479 --> 01:27:08,479
Speaker 1: um actors because there was a strike. So I had

1479
01:27:08,479 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 1: to create this thing that didn't work. No, that's for sure,

1480
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:14,840
Speaker 1: because there was you know, I wanted when it worked

1481
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:16,599
Speaker 1: no matter what. Oh no, it would have worked if

1482
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:18,880
Speaker 1: if I had all the artists that were going to

1483
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 1: be impact. Well that's you know, we can debate past

1484
01:27:21,439 --> 01:27:24,960
Speaker 1: history for whatever. So why not you moved to Colorado,

1485
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:27,599
Speaker 1: That's where I see you most nothing, You don't come

1486
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:30,519
Speaker 1: back to l A. Why not call it a day, relax,

1487
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:33,640
Speaker 1: enjoy your aging rand children, because I don't want to

1488
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:39,040
Speaker 1: modify my lifestyle and I would have to if I retired. Okay,

1489
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:41,800
Speaker 1: So what so how much do you travel with the

1490
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 1: acts at this point? Almost never? Okay. I mean I

1491
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 1: came into l A for a meeting with one of

1492
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,519
Speaker 1: my clients, but I don't go on the road. Maybe

1493
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:55,000
Speaker 1: I'll show up in London if I have other business,

1494
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 1: other reasons. Okay, So who you know? Is there anybody

1495
01:27:57,960 --> 01:28:01,040
Speaker 1: who's actually working for you or you hire to have?

1496
01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:06,000
Speaker 1: I have, uh, Peter Wark who's kind of my partner,

1497
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:08,720
Speaker 1: and he works out of Montreal and I work out

1498
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 1: of Vail, and we make believe that he's a New

1499
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:15,360
Speaker 1: York and nom in l A. Now you call my office,

1500
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:18,040
Speaker 1: you call my office number. It's an l A number. Right.

1501
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:20,320
Speaker 1: Did you say you also have an operation in the valley.

1502
01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:25,559
Speaker 1: That's yeah, but no one's in there. There's an answering

1503
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:28,600
Speaker 1: machine that forwards the calls. I'm in the I'm in

1504
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:32,640
Speaker 1: the Witness Protective Okay. So it's not a it's not

1505
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:35,799
Speaker 1: an answering machine in the old fashioned sense. I understand.

1506
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:38,800
Speaker 1: It's a service that fowards the So you think you're

1507
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:41,439
Speaker 1: calling an office in Los Angeles and they put you

1508
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:44,280
Speaker 1: through to my office and I'm sitting with my feet

1509
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:47,240
Speaker 1: up and looking out at the mountains in Colorado. Okay,

1510
01:28:47,360 --> 01:28:50,559
Speaker 1: So Ricky Lee Jones is taking up a lot of

1511
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:52,880
Speaker 1: your time. What else is your time spent on toime? Well,

1512
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:56,599
Speaker 1: I have disband in Austin called Fastball, who I Love

1513
01:28:57,240 --> 01:29:02,000
Speaker 1: had a big hit about twenty years ago. Nineties. Yeah, Um,

1514
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 1: don't ask me. What kind of business can they do today? Well,

1515
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:09,040
Speaker 1: you know they do reasonably good business. The nineties has

1516
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:12,240
Speaker 1: kind of Um. They went out on tour with Ever

1517
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 1: Clear and you know they do package tour. Yeah, they

1518
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:17,240
Speaker 1: do great. And they're just putting out a new record

1519
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:20,840
Speaker 1: right now as we speak. And um, and then you

1520
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:26,240
Speaker 1: know I did. I worked with um with Ray Davies

1521
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 1: for a number of years, but he's kind of kind

1522
01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:34,479
Speaker 1: of gotten quiet the past two years. Okay, so is he?

1523
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:36,920
Speaker 1: Is he? Play? Ever gonna be the musical that was

1524
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,799
Speaker 1: successful in London? Ever going to open in New York? Well,

1525
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:43,160
Speaker 1: you know they were planning on opening it when Hamilton

1526
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:46,120
Speaker 1: When Hamilton's came out, that sucked all the oxygen out

1527
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:50,160
Speaker 1: of the room. So the answer is, I don't know. Okay,

1528
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:55,120
Speaker 1: Kinks Ever get back together? Got? I been involved with

1529
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 1: Ray for almost eight years hoping this would be the case.

1530
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 1: And I don't think so. And not because Ray wouldn't

1531
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:04,600
Speaker 1: do it, because Dave won't do it. They have any money. No,

1532
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:09,240
Speaker 1: when we ever see would you ever see? Will you

1533
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:12,960
Speaker 1: ever see Ray on stage again. Um, yeah, probably, but

1534
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:14,559
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to get on a plane. He doesn't

1535
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:17,080
Speaker 1: want to go on tour. My only chance for the

1536
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:19,080
Speaker 1: Kings to get back together is if I could have

1537
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:21,800
Speaker 1: a show in London where they do one show and

1538
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:27,040
Speaker 1: I broadcast it to a thousand venues as a hologram. Okay,

1539
01:30:27,080 --> 01:30:30,479
Speaker 1: having been in the business for all these decades and

1540
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:34,240
Speaker 1: having seen the transition to digital, what do you foresee

1541
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:37,320
Speaker 1: for the business coming down the pike. Well, there's going

1542
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:40,960
Speaker 1: to be another wave of technology. Really, what do you predict? No,

1543
01:30:41,120 --> 01:30:44,920
Speaker 1: I didn't you know. I didn't think Spotify was gonna

1544
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:48,720
Speaker 1: suck the world over. I mean, you know, it's so

1545
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:52,840
Speaker 1: interesting that the record companies have managed to monetize every

1546
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:57,280
Speaker 1: technological change to the detriment of the artist. If you

1547
01:30:57,320 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 1: think about it, the major companies who have all the

1548
01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:04,240
Speaker 1: content makes deals with Spotify, and they get these huge

1549
01:31:04,240 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 1: advances to give them blanket licenses. They don't share that

1550
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:10,519
Speaker 1: with the artist. The artists gets they said, well Warner

1551
01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:13,599
Speaker 1: said they were, But who the hell knows? Really, I

1552
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:16,760
Speaker 1: must have missed that her statement because I have never

1553
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:20,680
Speaker 1: seen one. Okay, but but Spotify pays some absurd like

1554
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:24,280
Speaker 1: point zero zero zero. It depends whatever. It's not literally

1555
01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 1: a penny rate, but it's a division. It ends up

1556
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:28,559
Speaker 1: being that. Yeah, well it comes free. That's for a

1557
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 1: free stream of paid streams a little bit more. But okay,

1558
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:34,640
Speaker 1: just as a ballpark figure, a million streams makes the

1559
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:37,800
Speaker 1: artist about six thousand dollars. That's if they own their

1560
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:40,720
Speaker 1: own publishing and they have a good record deal. Well,

1561
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:43,200
Speaker 1: it's a little bit higher than that, but forgetting that.

1562
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:46,400
Speaker 1: You know, certainly, if you have what we call a

1563
01:31:46,439 --> 01:31:51,599
Speaker 1: heritage artist, it's it's limited on streaming. But okay, so

1564
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:53,680
Speaker 1: in any of them. But they're trying, they're trying to

1565
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:57,200
Speaker 1: open up other avenues exactly. But keep in mind that

1566
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:01,479
Speaker 1: the one thing I the only solace there is is

1567
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:06,000
Speaker 1: that the life expectancy of a stream on on Spotify

1568
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:09,600
Speaker 1: or or Apple wherever, it basically lasts forever and you

1569
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:13,080
Speaker 1: get paid. So by the time you're ninety you might

1570
01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:19,040
Speaker 1: actually make some money. Absolutely, Rod, this has been so great,

1571
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:22,479
Speaker 1: and we never got past the fucking seventies. Man, No,

1572
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:24,640
Speaker 1: we did a little bit, a little bit, you know,

1573
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:27,840
Speaker 1: on some level, the people this the definitive story has

1574
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:31,040
Speaker 1: never been written. Okay, you've had their story from maybe

1575
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:34,080
Speaker 1: ten thousand feet. But what I like you, what you're

1576
01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:36,439
Speaker 1: saying is we didn't know what the funk were hanging.

1577
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:39,640
Speaker 1: We were friends. Listen. I said this to Elliott. Unfortunately

1578
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:44,680
Speaker 1: Elliott pasted it was you know, I've known Elliott sixties

1579
01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:48,960
Speaker 1: and odd years. We were in business, and inspite of that,

1580
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:51,320
Speaker 1: I still loved him, you know, because I would have

1581
01:32:51,400 --> 01:32:53,960
Speaker 1: arguments with him where he would say, I can't do that,

1582
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:55,960
Speaker 1: that's business, and then he would ask me to do

1583
01:32:56,040 --> 01:32:59,560
Speaker 1: something as a friend. So when he wanted something, we

1584
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 1: would have as the friends, and when he didn't want

1585
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:04,400
Speaker 1: to do something, he couldn't you know that the economics

1586
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:07,599
Speaker 1: don't work? And where does this leave you with Geffen? Well,

1587
01:33:07,640 --> 01:33:10,160
Speaker 1: you know, I speak to him and see him occasionally,

1588
01:33:10,360 --> 01:33:13,200
Speaker 1: and I'm always amazed that he actually knows what's going

1589
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:16,040
Speaker 1: on in my life. And um, I think he actually

1590
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:18,360
Speaker 1: cares and there are very few people in his life

1591
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:22,240
Speaker 1: that are not trying to get anything from him. So

1592
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:25,639
Speaker 1: I think our relationship is unique. And is he ever

1593
01:33:25,640 --> 01:33:29,280
Speaker 1: give you any advice? Uh? So we had a client

1594
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:38,120
Speaker 1: um when this kid um god o Jared Wilkins so manages. Uh.

1595
01:33:39,439 --> 01:33:44,000
Speaker 1: There was a Broadway show called um Um Spring Awakening,

1596
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:47,280
Speaker 1: of course, yes, and the guy wrote the music, Duncan Cheek.

1597
01:33:47,360 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 1: Duncan Cheek was Jared's client and um so the play

1598
01:33:53,080 --> 01:33:56,400
Speaker 1: played in Los Angeles and I put I brought David

1599
01:33:56,439 --> 01:34:00,280
Speaker 1: down because I wanted him to help me make a movie. Okay, son,

1600
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:02,960
Speaker 1: David took Duncan the side and told him, don't ever

1601
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:06,200
Speaker 1: make a fucking movie, you know, just keep it as

1602
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:09,599
Speaker 1: a play. Just they'll suck it up. And he liked

1603
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:13,120
Speaker 1: stuck a pin in my balloon because I want the

1604
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:15,639
Speaker 1: big payoff for us was going to be the movie.

1605
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:18,479
Speaker 1: And do you think he was right? Who the funk knows?

1606
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, one more thing. When we started

1607
01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:28,320
Speaker 1: out in the business, we thought we were fucking geniuses. Okay,

1608
01:34:28,479 --> 01:34:31,599
Speaker 1: about five or six years into the process, we realized

1609
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:34,160
Speaker 1: that we were the luckiest fucking people who have ever

1610
01:34:34,200 --> 01:34:38,160
Speaker 1: met in your life. Five more years I actually figured

1611
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:41,320
Speaker 1: out and I feel like I'm a real professional. But

1612
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:45,440
Speaker 1: it took me ten years. Well that's something to contemplate,

1613
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:47,639
Speaker 1: is I'm sitting here, Rob, thanks so much for being

1614
01:34:47,640 --> 01:34:50,880
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Thank you once again. That's ron A

1615
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:56,160
Speaker 1: k a Stone straight from the Bronx, Here to Hollywood.

1616
01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:59,640
Speaker 1: He made it and he's still in the game. Thank you.