WEBVTT - "Keith McNally," Pt. 1

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<v Speaker 1>Celebrity Book Club. Hey club kids, did you miss us?

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<v Speaker 1>We're handing out a free app this week. It's part

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<v Speaker 1>one of our epic two parter on Downtown Restaurant or

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<v Speaker 1>Keith McNally. If you want part two, honey, you're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>have to head over to patreon dot com slash CBC

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<v Speaker 1>the pod that's dropping next week, But for now, this

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<v Speaker 1>one's on us. Love you. Who's that knocking at the door.

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<v Speaker 1>It's all your friends, you filthy whrse. Your husband's gone

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<v Speaker 1>and we've got books and a bottle of wine to kill.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Hollywood, it's books, It's gossip. I'm shook. Its memoirs Martini,

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<v Speaker 1>Celebrity poof Club. Come read it while it's hot. Celebrity

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<v Speaker 1>poof Club. I'll tell your secrets.

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<v Speaker 2>We won't talk celebrity books.

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<v Speaker 1>No, boys are a loud celebrity boo.

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<v Speaker 2>Say it loud and pound.

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<v Speaker 1>Celebrity Book Club.

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<v Speaker 2>Buzz me in. I brought the queer foe. Hey, best

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<v Speaker 2>friends friend?

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<v Speaker 1>How the hell are you?

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, best friend? It's so it's so good to say it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, because we don't get to say it as

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<v Speaker 1>much now, But it's still true.

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<v Speaker 2>Mama, right and you have to make sure you're like

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<v Speaker 2>is it true.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, check in, check in with your bestie's out

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<v Speaker 1>there ladies, and make sure you guys are still each

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<v Speaker 1>other's number one, because sometimes those rankings can shift.

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<v Speaker 3>No, they can totally fall, and in life sometimes things

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<v Speaker 3>do fallt yes, and we all go through phases with

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<v Speaker 3>wives and children.

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<v Speaker 1>And friends and friends and restaurants.

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<v Speaker 2>And lovers that become friends.

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<v Speaker 1>And then wives that become business partners.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly and close confidence.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, I think you'll be able to tell by

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<v Speaker 3>the fact that you're listening to this episode on a

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<v Speaker 3>Wednesday and that we said, hey, best friend.

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<v Speaker 1>We're doing a book.

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<v Speaker 3>We're doing a book. Isn't it good to be back

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<v Speaker 3>in the old library.

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<v Speaker 1>A book that literally comes out and say it with

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<v Speaker 1>me today or yesterday's this week?

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, it comes out yesterday. Okay, wow, you listening to

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<v Speaker 3>this it comes out yesterday.

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<v Speaker 1>So be impressed by the fact that we railed this

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty four hours. Oh wait, no, we got the

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<v Speaker 1>arc ma man.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yes, I'm talking about that galley bitch with big

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<v Speaker 3>confidential letters across the page.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like a slight gray diagonal letter that' says confidential

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<v Speaker 1>for review purposes only on every I will admit, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I am not ashamed to admit that when I was

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<v Speaker 1>reading this on the subway, I definitely was just like

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<v Speaker 1>just taking it out a little bit more solely, just

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<v Speaker 1>in case anyone was curious as to the cover. Be like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's right, this book that comes out next month. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>reading it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're like holding it so hard, hold like a

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<v Speaker 2>completely yeah holding galley.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, impressed, And then like letting people see the confidential

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<v Speaker 1>review purposes only. Yeah, that's right. If your eyes wander

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<v Speaker 1>over to my lap, yeah, keep your eyes off my crotch, asshole,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm reading a galley.

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<v Speaker 3>I wonder if anyone at Call Lord today when I

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<v Speaker 3>was reading it in the waiting room, was like so fucking.

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<v Speaker 1>Impressed, so fucking horny.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was just like, WHOA is that an arc?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Maybe they would have been impressed if it was

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<v Speaker 1>like Ocean Wong's new book or something, or like the

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<v Speaker 1>sequel to a Little Life or something something in the

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<v Speaker 1>queer lit canon in which this book is not, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Would put this in the cannon.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, I guess, I guess one is, but like by

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<v Speaker 1>accident in this way that's so like not gay that

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<v Speaker 1>I really love.

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<v Speaker 2>But right, it's so not gay that it is gay,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's also.

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<v Speaker 1>Like way gayer and more honest than like any other

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<v Speaker 1>ship book. Okay, who are we talking about?

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<v Speaker 2>Let's say it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know him as the restauranteur who invented downtown Acquardant

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<v Speaker 1>to New York Times, he is the owner of Baltasar.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so funny that you say Baltussar and not balt Bazar.

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<v Speaker 1>Can we unpack? You know?

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<v Speaker 3>I was watching this interview of him when he's talking

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<v Speaker 3>about opening up the London version, which we'll get into

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<v Speaker 3>this episode, and I realized he's saying Baltzar, and then I.

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<v Speaker 1>Will whoa, Now you just really clipped it. You just

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<v Speaker 1>made that two syllables. You just said Baltzar.

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<v Speaker 3>Well that's what he was kind of saying in this interview.

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<v Speaker 3>He was like Boltsar, Yeah, balts Are. He was like, well,

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<v Speaker 3>I hope to make the London bolts Are, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>like the New York But you know, expectations. It's like

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<v Speaker 3>when you know a woman hears it you're good.

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<v Speaker 2>In bed and and and then you sleep with her

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<v Speaker 2>and you're not good in bed.

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<v Speaker 1>Baltzar. I mean that's a really clipped well of course

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<v Speaker 1>English working class bethnal Green, like you know those clipped vowels,

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<v Speaker 1>right Boltza.

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<v Speaker 2>So okay, so how do you say it?

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<v Speaker 1>I say both bizarre?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, both are.

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<v Speaker 1>Both bizarre, you know the soft the soft.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm giving it kind of a baltazar.

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<v Speaker 1>Most times that I've heard it spoken in my circles

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<v Speaker 1>as a member of the downtown New York literati, I

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<v Speaker 1>hear people saying both.

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<v Speaker 2>Thesar, bothre.

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<v Speaker 3>Bazaar, come over here, both tazar, come over here. No,

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<v Speaker 3>I want my next group of fish. I want to

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<v Speaker 3>name pestis bald bizarre shillers, Kathy Luxemburgva.

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<v Speaker 1>Is a really good name for fish.

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<v Speaker 2>School. Okay, who are we talking about if you don't

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<v Speaker 2>know already.

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<v Speaker 1>None other than Keith McNally and.

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<v Speaker 2>His spanking fresh from the Kitchen.

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<v Speaker 1>Book I regret almost everything. And here he has on

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<v Speaker 1>the cover and I wool having bone overcoat, sort of

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<v Speaker 1>gazing somewhere in the distance. Looks like he's on a

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<v Speaker 1>sidewalk in New York City, maybe just thinking about his life.

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<v Speaker 1>Black and white photo. It was probably in four days

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<v Speaker 1>in this shot. Eye.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he has this kind of cool spiky hair in it.

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<v Speaker 2>That kind of name feels very fifties.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, but the photo is probably from the early two thousands.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe I just have to say I ate this book up.

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<v Speaker 2>Honey doored it.

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<v Speaker 1>It was fucking eight course meal devoured.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously, this is like actual like catnip for us.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, it's restaurants, it's drama, it's celebrities, it's.

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<v Speaker 3>Martini's Sick, it's Martini's, it's fall Gral, it's Patti Smith.

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<v Speaker 1>And he's a great writer, and I mean he really

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Tina Brown was talking about this on her substock,

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<v Speaker 1>you know that one humiliation that everyone now is suffered.

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<v Speaker 2>So crazy that Tina Brown has a substock.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just like, wow, we really all just got to

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<v Speaker 1>be out there begging for cash digitally panhandling. And she

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<v Speaker 1>said she was like, reading this book, I realized I

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<v Speaker 1>should have hired him as a writer at Vanity Fair.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, he just has he has voice, he has

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<v Speaker 1>a gift for voice. And you know, the structure of

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<v Speaker 1>the book is quite compelling. So it begins with his

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<v Speaker 1>attempted suicide after his stroke.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's kind of these these tragedies one after another

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<v Speaker 3>where he's it's like bam, And a lot of us didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Even know that he had an attempt at suicide.

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<v Speaker 1>No, in my community, in your community of Keith watchers, No,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know about the suicide either. And I you know,

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<v Speaker 1>obviously by the stroke, because if you follow him on Instagram,

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<v Speaker 1>he's a voracious Instagram poster, partly because he had a

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<v Speaker 1>stroke that took away his faculties with speech and he

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<v Speaker 1>kind of speaks in his more slurred way now, and

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<v Speaker 1>so Instagram lets him express himself much more easily.

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<v Speaker 3>And I feel like that was also why many of

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<v Speaker 3>us out there were so excited for this book, because

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<v Speaker 3>we all got this taste of you know, and he

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<v Speaker 3>writes these long, detailed posts and kind of these these

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<v Speaker 3>humorous but sad and you know lately, you know, in

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<v Speaker 3>some of the gossip, you know, he's a famous.

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<v Speaker 1>Poster in this book, but you know, but a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of it's posting. He's always posting about his restaurants, and

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<v Speaker 1>like with this very kind of romantic, cantankerous misanthrope like

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<v Speaker 1>viewer is just like, oh and you know, another terrible

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<v Speaker 1>night at both this are We did six hundred covers

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<v Speaker 1>and so he's you know, there's a transparency. He's like

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<v Speaker 1>pulling the curtain back and telling you about like all

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<v Speaker 1>the money they made. Be He's always like has this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like faux disdain for like you know, powered

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<v Speaker 1>and celebrity and wealth and like you love to like

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<v Speaker 1>take people down a peg, even though obviously he's like

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<v Speaker 1>completely enamored with celebrities and also like creating a space

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<v Speaker 1>that is like a place to go spend your money

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<v Speaker 1>and wants people to be rich and glamorous.

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<v Speaker 3>Like right, it's like his whole kind of I would say,

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<v Speaker 3>like style of restaurant is for a celebrity to go

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<v Speaker 3>to in jeans. Yes, he's so, which I think comes

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<v Speaker 3>from his generation because he is like maybe like a

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<v Speaker 3>younger boomer. So it like comes out of this like, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 3>the French restaurants of New York of the sixties where

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<v Speaker 3>you know, you had to put on a tie and

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<v Speaker 3>and jacket and there weren't really these big French of

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<v Speaker 3>bistros where you could wear a leather jacket and jeans

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<v Speaker 3>and have steak free.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what's funny about him? So I thank you

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<v Speaker 1>for me them about because I feel like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>like somewhat early in the book, he does he imagines

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<v Speaker 1>himself as like reinventing the wheel and restaurants, and literally

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<v Speaker 1>every restaurant thinks that they've reinvented the wheel, and he

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<v Speaker 1>thinks he's the first person to be like French cuisine

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<v Speaker 1>was so stuffy and uptown and menus had the longest

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<v Speaker 1>titles of dishes on them and way too many dishes

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<v Speaker 1>on them. And I said, what if we made a

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<v Speaker 1>brasserie that was a little more accessible, okay, or you

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<v Speaker 1>could just go get a good steak frets in the

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<v Speaker 1>neighborhood and a glass of champagne. It's like, that's literally

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<v Speaker 1>what every restaurant or has ever thought ever. They're like,

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<v Speaker 1>what if the food is really good but it's actually

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<v Speaker 1>like kind of casual, kind of casual and more down

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<v Speaker 1>to earth like even to this day, like every new

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<v Speaker 1>like small Plates rethinks that they're doing the same thing

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<v Speaker 1>of being like, you know, we saw every other place

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<v Speaker 1>was supertentious, and we were like, how about we just

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<v Speaker 1>do some like seven things really good good And what if.

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<v Speaker 3>Sorry, what if this what if it was just fucking

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<v Speaker 3>bankots a zinc bar right now Vintage mirrors from Burgundy

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<v Speaker 3>from seventeen ninety.

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<v Speaker 2>And then we wrote them menu on the mirrors. What

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<v Speaker 2>about that? What about that?

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<v Speaker 3>But what's not to really jump ahead here, But while

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<v Speaker 3>we're on the subject of kind of RESTAURANTSS being rocketed

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<v Speaker 3>to head. The two chefs he hired for both the

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<v Speaker 3>czar who you know, became partners, you know, ended up

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<v Speaker 3>becoming partners.

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<v Speaker 2>In Minetta and then Pastisee. They opened up, Vodoor, they opened.

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<v Speaker 1>Up and French Chatte, where we had a lovely meal

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<v Speaker 1>at Lily by the way, let's just say.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's just say we had a lovely meal there after

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<v Speaker 2>leaving Odeon.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, his former restaurant with his former ex

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<v Speaker 1>wife Lynn Weggencock or wow. No, I mean it's impossible

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<v Speaker 1>to escape as New York if you live here and

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<v Speaker 1>you're in the know, as of course we are.

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<v Speaker 3>This is but I guess sorry, just to thread my

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<v Speaker 3>point is that those two restaurants are trying to bring

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<v Speaker 3>back a little little bit of the stuffiness. His ex

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<v Speaker 3>chefs are trying to bring back a little bit of

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<v Speaker 3>the stuff in Malagy. Yes, in their newer French restaurants. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>Vodor is spelling against but it's also.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, I mean, I haven't been to Vodor, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>because I might as well. I'm the biggest loser on earth,

0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:19.600
<v Speaker 1>and like you should run me over with an NYC

0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.240
<v Speaker 1>garbage truck. But like I have been to the Rock,

0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:24.760
<v Speaker 1>which is also theirs, and like rock is I'll say this,

0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.520
<v Speaker 1>it's fine for like a pre dinner, the pre theater meal.

0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm not like rushing to go back. It's like really

0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:31.480
<v Speaker 1>expensive and like I don't think it's so worth it.

0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:36.840
<v Speaker 2>It's exactly what my his mom said, Well ARPI okay, but.

0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.080
<v Speaker 1>Like they're also thinking that they're reinventing the wheel by

0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:41.480
<v Speaker 1>going fancy again, you know what I mean.

0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:43.520
<v Speaker 2>They're like, what if we were fancy?

0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:45.959
<v Speaker 3>Do you remember the days of the nineteen sixties when

0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:47.480
<v Speaker 3>men with them jackets?

0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.679
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so, but Balthazar, as you were describing, has like

0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:52.880
<v Speaker 1>a zinc bar. It's like a French brasserie. It's like

0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.319
<v Speaker 1>the concept is like, it's not it is not reinventing

0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.079
<v Speaker 1>a single wheel. When he talks about the when this

0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:04.199
<v Speaker 1>attorney goes The idea for Balta came about while I

0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.959
<v Speaker 1>was living in Paris, seven years before I built the place.

0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Although it's hard for me to come up with good ideas.

0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.800
<v Speaker 1>A few decent ones I've ever had come about by

0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.880
<v Speaker 1>pure accident. I was searching for vintage curtains at a

0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.040
<v Speaker 1>Paris flea market in nineteen ninety when I suddenly spotted

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.800
<v Speaker 1>an old CPIA photo of a turn of the century bar.

0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.160
<v Speaker 1>Behind the bar zinc counter one hundreds of liquor bottles

0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.520
<v Speaker 1>stack twenty feet high, flanked by two towering statues of

0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:31.720
<v Speaker 1>semi naked women carved in the classical Greek style. It's like, sorry,

0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:34.360
<v Speaker 1>you saw a photo of a bar with liquor bottles

0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.280
<v Speaker 1>behind it, and it gave me the idea for her restaurant.

0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.000
<v Speaker 3>All of his inspiration is a photo of a naked

0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:42.280
<v Speaker 3>woman's isn't thin?

0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:43.480
<v Speaker 2>The way?

0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, she went, how do I say this bottle cheli esk?

0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:48.520
<v Speaker 2>But he was like, I don't know.

0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.959
<v Speaker 3>It wasn't one of those models. She had curves and

0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.640
<v Speaker 3>she was leaning. I literally drank every time he says

0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.760
<v Speaker 3>zinc in this book. But it's like and bottles stashed.

0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:01.880
<v Speaker 3>I guess what he's time as he's not time about

0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:06.040
<v Speaker 3>just two shelves. He's talking about balls to the wall.

0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:06.560
<v Speaker 2>Liquor.

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:13.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm still just like and he's it, and it's

0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.640
<v Speaker 1>like a photo of a bar, isn't an idea for

0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:17.800
<v Speaker 1>a bar? That just is a photo of a bar,

0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.600
<v Speaker 1>And then you're just doing a concept that exists already,

0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.560
<v Speaker 1>which is just like French brasserie like but mirrors.

0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.360
<v Speaker 3>Like I'm also like always seeing a photo of a

0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.840
<v Speaker 3>vintage bar, being like, wait, I have an idea.

0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Bar, but it's old.

0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:35.280
<v Speaker 1>The concept is bar.

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.280
<v Speaker 3>And then in this trip, so he gets like when

0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:43.120
<v Speaker 3>he creates a restaurant, he admits very wildly, like it

0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:44.959
<v Speaker 3>it takes a lot of money, honey.

0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's always running out, it's always going in a debt.

0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.080
<v Speaker 3>And because so he goes to France and he finds

0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 3>these vintage luggage racks and like French luggage racks to

0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.640
<v Speaker 3>put on like the ceiling of baltasar and he buys

0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.920
<v Speaker 3>them in like greater and then he comes back and

0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:04.559
<v Speaker 3>the guy has like shined them and polished them so

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:06.200
<v Speaker 3>they don't look vintage anymore.

0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.040
<v Speaker 2>And he's like, I've never been more.

0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Upsetting, absolutely furious.

0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:12.320
<v Speaker 2>It was heartbreaking.

0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 1>And then at Kathy Luxembourg, he like he was like, wait,

0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:18.559
<v Speaker 1>what if we have the idea to do like the

0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:22.040
<v Speaker 1>postcard with a check that's like a funky postcard of

0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 1>the restaurant. And then he's like, let's do a photo

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:29.680
<v Speaker 1>shoot with Zoftig women like right the bar. But then

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.520
<v Speaker 1>they accidentally hired these fucking Vogue models, right, So.

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.200
<v Speaker 3>He calls like a model agency, right, and they said,

0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 3>have these Vogue models and he's like, absolutely not what

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.440
<v Speaker 3>I want. So he's like, no, I want like curvy,

0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 3>big Luxembourgian curls.

0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:48.400
<v Speaker 2>And he was like and it was perfect.

0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 3>I was wondering about the postcard thing, where I was like,

0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:53.880
<v Speaker 3>people were probably doing it, but that was another thing

0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.360
<v Speaker 3>where he was like, would it be so crazy if

0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.360
<v Speaker 3>we gave people a post card?

0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:05.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I feel like he's probably lying about coming up

0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.440
<v Speaker 1>with that idea because obviously lots of restaurants do that,

0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 1>and you know, it does add to the experience. It's

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:12.800
<v Speaker 1>like another point of branding that I think, you know,

0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.800
<v Speaker 1>helps sell the overall narrative of the restaurant and you know,

0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 1>leaves the consumer with like just like a little bit

0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.400
<v Speaker 1>of a closer relationship to the brand. But I can't

0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.040
<v Speaker 1>imagine that he came up with that idea. It's like,

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 1>obviously other people.

0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 3>Were doing that, right, but yeah, just to take it

0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.520
<v Speaker 3>back a little now, like to the seventies. So the

0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:35.720
<v Speaker 3>big reveal in this book is in his early twenties

0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.960
<v Speaker 3>he had a homosex wood relationship.

0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, play right. Alan Bennett, the famous.

0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.840
<v Speaker 1>Celebrated British playwright Alan Bennett, author of the Madness of

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:50.200
<v Speaker 1>King George, is part of.

0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:51.920
<v Speaker 2>The Beyond the Fringe group now.

0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.360
<v Speaker 3>And he was just a working class boy, you know,

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.480
<v Speaker 3>from bethnal Green and but he wanted to be he

0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.000
<v Speaker 3>wanted to be a filmmaker. You want to be sund

0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.880
<v Speaker 3>by the intellect. And he started hanging out with Alan

0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.320
<v Speaker 3>Bennett and he was like, it's so cool the way

0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.800
<v Speaker 3>you talk about art and culture and plays.

0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.040
<v Speaker 2>And I feel like he was like just experiencing like

0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 2>gay guy criticism.

0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.520
<v Speaker 1>So he says he was seventeen when they met, or no,

0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.000
<v Speaker 1>he says he was like eighteen when the relationship started.

0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:20.720
<v Speaker 1>But I kind of think maybe he's lying about that

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 1>just to protect on. I think he was seventeen. It's

0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.360
<v Speaker 1>groom central. But you know what I'm you know, I

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.360
<v Speaker 1>feel like he's really like grateful to have been groomed.

0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.480
<v Speaker 1>And I feel like he's like I learned like so

0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.880
<v Speaker 1>much from this guy who I got to be around

0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.520
<v Speaker 1>him and his playwright friends, and it was like it

0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.480
<v Speaker 1>was such an education. He says.

0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.280
<v Speaker 3>I've had two homosexual relationships in my life. The first

0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:46.400
<v Speaker 3>was with an actor when I was sixteen. The second

0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:48.360
<v Speaker 3>and more serious one was with the English play right

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:49.080
<v Speaker 3>Alan Bennett.

0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.000
<v Speaker 1>So and they're doing that. I left his like so

0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.640
<v Speaker 1>like and like after the plays they would have right Sorry.

0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.280
<v Speaker 3>Supper was always simple, a light salad and a chunk

0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.160
<v Speaker 3>of pete or cold chicken that Alan and.

0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:01.520
<v Speaker 2>Had roasted before the theater.

0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.159
<v Speaker 3>During the meal, we talk about that night's play, but

0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.639
<v Speaker 3>to avoid getting serious too quickly, Alan would preface his

0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.320
<v Speaker 3>thoughts on the play by gossiping about the actors.

0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.960
<v Speaker 2>He was quite funny about short actors, with Edward fox

0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:15.159
<v Speaker 2>Off in his main target.

0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:20.480
<v Speaker 3>That's something so seventies and also British of it, calling

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.600
<v Speaker 3>something just like, oh, just a chunk of pettis.

0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 1>Chunk of pette. It's giving cat food, you.

0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Know, it's very gay cat food.

0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.120
<v Speaker 1>So six weeks after our theater go and routine began,

0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.399
<v Speaker 1>Alan drove me to see a small Anglican church in

0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:36.840
<v Speaker 1>the countryside. On our return we stopped the car arrestop

0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.399
<v Speaker 1>to eat sandwiches and drink tea from a flask. It

0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.680
<v Speaker 1>was a dreary day, and Alan seemed unusually melancholy. It

0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:44.399
<v Speaker 1>was then that I sensed he was in love with me.

0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Not long after that, I stayed the night at his house.

0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.640
<v Speaker 1>Sleeping with Alan felt like a natural progression of our friendship.

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.560
<v Speaker 1>It was uncomplicated. I never once felt guilty about it.

0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:55.840
<v Speaker 1>After that first night, I'd say two or three times

0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:59.920
<v Speaker 1>a week and I'm just like, okay, so sorry, Na Pride,

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:01.480
<v Speaker 1>what were you all doing? You know?

0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I was almost up.

0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.680
<v Speaker 3>Because I was like, Okay, he's you know, he's very upfront,

0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.199
<v Speaker 3>but he's also like he talks about sex a lot, but.

0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:11.399
<v Speaker 2>Like, can you talk about the positions?

0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Is twenty five? Who's topping?

0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:21.040
<v Speaker 1>Like was there? Boy butter involved? Was there? Chunk Pete and.

0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Chunks was so twink?

0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.240
<v Speaker 1>It's Twink Top elder gay Bottom.

0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:30.960
<v Speaker 3>It has to be, Yeah, because I don't really see

0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:36.440
<v Speaker 3>Keith Bottom and such a young age and experimenting bottoming.

0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:37.920
<v Speaker 3>I think it would be a lot more comfortable for

0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:42.919
<v Speaker 3>him to be this kind of well sprightly young Okay,

0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:45.399
<v Speaker 3>But I could also see this very just kind of

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:46.639
<v Speaker 3>like frottage and.

0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Blow a lot of oral to start out with.

0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:50.960
<v Speaker 1>It was side central over there.

0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it was a side.

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.080
<v Speaker 1>It's side Eaton's green, lad. I don't. I don't know

0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.520
<v Speaker 1>because also though, because there's something about this reallyationship is

0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.280
<v Speaker 1>very very ancient Greece like that, because you have this

0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.520
<v Speaker 1>older man who's like this the tutor, and then the

0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:09.600
<v Speaker 1>younger man who was eager to learn in his feet,

0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:15.200
<v Speaker 1>and those relationships the classic, you know, pederasty relationships. The

0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.480
<v Speaker 1>older man was always the top, the younger man was

0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.119
<v Speaker 1>always the bottom, and that was like why it was

0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.560
<v Speaker 1>acceptable socially. So I do wonder if some of that

0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:25.760
<v Speaker 1>played out as well, and Alan was like I'm the

0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:29.080
<v Speaker 1>teacher here, you're the student, and it only makes sense

0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:30.080
<v Speaker 1>for me to penetrate it.

0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.359
<v Speaker 3>I think penetration absolutely happened. I'm just kind of I

0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.439
<v Speaker 3>was more thinking about the early The early hooking up

0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.000
<v Speaker 3>was probably like pretty.

0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.159
<v Speaker 1>Oral and then like maybe you think that they're like

0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.200
<v Speaker 1>not having full sacks their first name. Yeah, it was

0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.280
<v Speaker 1>they were pet They were petting for three weeks.

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:51.520
<v Speaker 3>It was a petting for three weeks, and then it

0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.600
<v Speaker 3>was so like, I kind of feel like anal happened

0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:56.960
<v Speaker 3>after the Dreary Tea from the flask.

0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.040
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, I mean, but that's he said was the

0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:01.480
<v Speaker 1>first time they slept to go Oh, the dreary tea

0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:02.959
<v Speaker 1>was when he realized he was in love with them,

0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.080
<v Speaker 1>and then they slept together in the night. So that

0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:06.480
<v Speaker 1>would be the that would be the first time. That

0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:07.560
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be weeks of petting.

0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Hmmm. Well, I guess we'll never know. I know, I

0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.320
<v Speaker 2>just I want to Yeah, I guess I want to

0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:15.680
<v Speaker 2>have it for a few weeks.

0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 1>I want to have an opinion on the top bottom though.

0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:19.400
<v Speaker 1>I want to come down on a side here.

0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.560
<v Speaker 2>And I think it is classic, but now I'm just like,

0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:24.720
<v Speaker 2>don't you think old?

0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:26.879
<v Speaker 3>So it was like a young British boy maybe like

0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.240
<v Speaker 3>he was excited by the fact that he could like

0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:34.240
<v Speaker 3>fuck your guy in the ass and was like, let

0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:34.760
<v Speaker 3>me try.

0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:39.119
<v Speaker 1>I feel like that's such a modern like idea. Well no,

0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:43.240
<v Speaker 1>not really. Well okay, here's like here's what I also think. Like,

0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:44.399
<v Speaker 1>I think it's.

0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.760
<v Speaker 2>Actually when you're younger, is when you are more verse

0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:48.600
<v Speaker 2>before you're.

0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Like right, you're clay ready to be molded. I also

0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.880
<v Speaker 1>think though that we if we assume that he would

0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:57.359
<v Speaker 1>be the top, because he like ends up being a

0:20:57.359 --> 0:20:59.080
<v Speaker 1>straight guy, so we're like, well, hole, it's a hole,

0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.640
<v Speaker 1>so he can fox. He can do that job. However,

0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:04.400
<v Speaker 1>something I learned on the Tyra Banks Show once many

0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.240
<v Speaker 1>years ago was that a lot of the gay for pay,

0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:12.479
<v Speaker 1>like porn stars, are often bottoms because you don't need

0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.560
<v Speaker 1>to be hard to bottom. And so if he's not

0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:20.320
<v Speaker 1>actually as gay as Alan Bennett, the whole sexual act

0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.720
<v Speaker 1>isn't relying on his erection. If he's going to be

0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:24.320
<v Speaker 1>the bottom, what.

0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.960
<v Speaker 2>About this cut to the whole pod just being about this?

0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.679
<v Speaker 3>When so he goes on this huge hitchhiking trip very

0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:34.760
<v Speaker 3>like seventies, literally goes like Catman do.

0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, hitchhikes the Catman do from London. It's iconic. You

0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:39.159
<v Speaker 1>can never do this today, It's like.

0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:40.119
<v Speaker 2>Literally never do it.

0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:43.000
<v Speaker 3>He's always been like, oh, the Afghans are so such

0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:47.800
<v Speaker 3>good hosts. And he falls in love with like so

0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:50.200
<v Speaker 3>many girls in bookstores who like sell maps.

0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.080
<v Speaker 3>And when he comes back, Alan is a little bit like,

0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:59.280
<v Speaker 3>so I'll be starting up again, yeah, And he realizes, like,

0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:02.399
<v Speaker 3>you know, after falling in love with so many map girls.

0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.920
<v Speaker 3>He's like, I don't really want to, but he also,

0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:09.040
<v Speaker 3>like I think, really appreciates and loves Alan as a friend,

0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.120
<v Speaker 3>so he feels bad totally ending the physical relationship.

0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I could see him coming back and bottoming.

0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:20.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh you think he was like almost like guilt guilt bottoming.

0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in the when he returns from the big hit.

0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:27.720
<v Speaker 1>So he was topping before Catman do guilt bottoming after, Okay,

0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 1>and that it's ultimately going to be the truth that

0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:32.680
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna have to say.

0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:35.720
<v Speaker 3>Right, that's where we've kind of sided on and feel

0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:40.399
<v Speaker 3>free to get in the comments after reading this. But

0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:44.879
<v Speaker 3>it's beautiful because they stay literally like bestie is throughout

0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:50.640
<v Speaker 3>his whole life and actually, of course in restaurants, right Lynn,

0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.080
<v Speaker 3>his first wife becomes even better friends yeah.

0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:56.480
<v Speaker 1>With Alan, and they're all just being like, oh God,

0:22:56.880 --> 0:22:58.840
<v Speaker 1>of course we're all former lovers. But we'll have to

0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:00.520
<v Speaker 1>say business partners forever, kind of like.

0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:03.280
<v Speaker 2>You and me, right, sorry, we have to stay business.

0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:04.680
<v Speaker 2>We have to open up a restaurant.

0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:07.960
<v Speaker 1>This road trip which is like so iconic and like

0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:10.000
<v Speaker 1>there's this thing where you can send a letter to

0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 1>any city in the world.

0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:13.320
<v Speaker 2>How cool is that? And you just go to the post.

0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:14.800
<v Speaker 1>You just go to the post. Yeah, and it just

0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:16.639
<v Speaker 1>like has a name on it, just like a person's name.

0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.840
<v Speaker 1>You just send a letter to Keith McNally in timbucktoo,

0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:21.399
<v Speaker 1>and then you go to timbuckto and you're like, oh,

0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:22.200
<v Speaker 1>here's my letter.

0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:27.240
<v Speaker 3>I actually acted like that exists in the world today.

0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:29.520
<v Speaker 3>If I made tangent for one second, I was acting

0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:33.240
<v Speaker 3>like Keith. I ordered a T shirt off of T

0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:35.760
<v Speaker 3>Pop and I it said it was delivered, but I

0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:38.200
<v Speaker 3>couldn't find it. And then I saw I had in

0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:40.320
<v Speaker 3>my dpop a wrong address listed.

0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:43.080
<v Speaker 2>So I just went to the building. I was like,

0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:44.960
<v Speaker 2>is there a package for me here?

0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:45.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:48.800
<v Speaker 1>No, that's exactly the same thing as mailing a letter

0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:49.640
<v Speaker 1>to timbuk two.

0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:52.840
<v Speaker 2>But I'm just saying as I was being so like, hello,

0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:55.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm here, my name is Lily. Where's my package?

0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:58.360
<v Speaker 1>And this like old woman was just like get off

0:23:58.440 --> 0:23:58.880
<v Speaker 1>my lawn.

0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:01.440
<v Speaker 2>It was a little like younger woman with like a

0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:02.840
<v Speaker 2>doll being so sketch by me.

0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:06.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just call it the package. So I love when

0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:09.919
<v Speaker 1>he's talking about being in Istanbul, like at the pudding

0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:12.880
<v Speaker 1>shop and like there was so many hippies and drifters,

0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.400
<v Speaker 1>because like there was a lot of like hippies doing

0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:17.359
<v Speaker 1>the old like like the Silk Right.

0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:20.199
<v Speaker 2>Everyone hitchhike to then you do row Darling.

0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:24.160
<v Speaker 3>No, the pudding shop sounded so iconic. It was like yeah,

0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:27.200
<v Speaker 3>like a cool place for hippies that did serve like

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:30.439
<v Speaker 3>Middle Eastern food, but it also was being like they

0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.000
<v Speaker 3>were playing like the New rock and role that he

0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.920
<v Speaker 3>had missed because he was away right on his like hitchhiking,

0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:39.040
<v Speaker 3>and there was like all these books there that you could.

0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:40.879
<v Speaker 1>Like love right and you could like get out like

0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:45.280
<v Speaker 1>a pamphlet from Fuco. Like the was like rolling around

0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:48.040
<v Speaker 1>at the coffee shop. I was just like if this

0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 1>were today, It's like if you were doing this Silk

0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Road today in the pudding shop, I mean, it would

0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:55.240
<v Speaker 1>all just be like I mean, first of all, you

0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:57.600
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't build hitchhig you would have to be like paying

0:24:57.720 --> 0:25:00.359
<v Speaker 1>for so many like e visas and like down leaving

0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:04.200
<v Speaker 1>like absolutely awful apps like in every country. And I'm

0:25:04.200 --> 0:25:07.120
<v Speaker 1>sure just like Ron has like a really shitty app

0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:11.080
<v Speaker 1>like it's difficult to us and that I would say that,

0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:15.080
<v Speaker 1>and then you would just be with like all these

0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:17.960
<v Speaker 1>content creators like to put.

0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:21.760
<v Speaker 3>The phones out at the pudding shop would be crazy,

0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:25.240
<v Speaker 3>and it would be like the new Boy Genius being

0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:26.919
<v Speaker 3>played and someone being like, oh my god, you've been

0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:27.720
<v Speaker 3>on the Silk Road.

0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:29.200
<v Speaker 2>You haven't heard any song.

0:25:31.040 --> 0:25:33.479
<v Speaker 3>And then are you like the books being left? Are

0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:37.240
<v Speaker 3>you like picking up the new like actually like trick

0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:41.760
<v Speaker 3>Mirror or whatever. At I'd be like, oh, I'm having

0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:44.560
<v Speaker 3>I kind of missed this one. It's like de Transition,

0:25:44.720 --> 0:25:45.800
<v Speaker 3>baby Mirror.

0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:50.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm reading The Guest by Emma Kleine in istan Pool.

0:25:52.320 --> 0:25:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Well while I'm like filming my TikTok, just being like

0:25:55.119 --> 0:25:58.280
<v Speaker 1>sexty countries and a hundred's come with me.

0:25:58.440 --> 0:25:58.760
<v Speaker 2>I love.

0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:01.520
<v Speaker 1>The Turkish people are so kind. You have to go

0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:02.800
<v Speaker 1>to this mom, it's amazing.

0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:05.720
<v Speaker 2>Follow me for more chips about jerky.

0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:08.879
<v Speaker 1>This is a really dope bookshop. They had all these

0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:11.400
<v Speaker 1>really cool books. They've never heard of Transition.

0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:14.359
<v Speaker 2>If you go through this curtain, all of a sudden

0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:15.400
<v Speaker 2>it's a record shop.

0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:18.000
<v Speaker 3>And if you go through another curtain, yeah, it's a

0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:21.399
<v Speaker 3>vintage clothing store where you can find tons of dead stock.

0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Carhard and then one more curtain you're in the Ace

0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:33.320
<v Speaker 1>hotelis stock Pool. Oh god, you know there's shades of

0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:35.680
<v Speaker 1>I kind of like this book to me felt a

0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:38.600
<v Speaker 1>little bit like a mix of Verna Hoozog's book and

0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Anthony Bourdines book, like you have like Anthony Boardines like

0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:48.080
<v Speaker 1>really misanthropic, like like fuck this system, but man, there's

0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:51.760
<v Speaker 1>nothing better than this, like in New York City and

0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:54.399
<v Speaker 1>counting your tips at the end of the night with

0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:55.760
<v Speaker 1>all the busts.

0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:59.600
<v Speaker 2>But it's so, what's so funny about Keith mcdally, would

0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:00.200
<v Speaker 2>she what?

0:27:00.359 --> 0:27:03.080
<v Speaker 3>I like? He's more kind of self aware than Anthony Boardame,

0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:05.840
<v Speaker 3>where he's like, I've literally never been a chef. I

0:27:06.080 --> 0:27:08.280
<v Speaker 3>I've just been dying to become like a filmmaker, which

0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:10.960
<v Speaker 3>kind of happened but didn't really Like I'm so and

0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:15.120
<v Speaker 3>he's like my best memory End of the Night odeon

0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:20.080
<v Speaker 3>nineteen eighty eight watching all the service counter tips, drink

0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:23.359
<v Speaker 3>beer and smoke, and man we had some.

0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:26.879
<v Speaker 1>Laughs and talk shit about the customers. That's what I's

0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:40.639
<v Speaker 1>all about. Okay, wait, can we talk about the celebrity

0:27:40.760 --> 0:27:44.440
<v Speaker 1>the unnamed celebrity actress that he sleeps with x X.

0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:46.399
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I have some guesses.

0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:49.399
<v Speaker 1>I have some guesses. So he this woman like comes

0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:51.840
<v Speaker 1>and sleeps with him, and she arrives at his house.

0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:53.920
<v Speaker 1>They like talked on the phone like a couple of times.

0:27:53.960 --> 0:27:55.639
<v Speaker 1>Then she comes to New York. She rives in his

0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:58.080
<v Speaker 1>house with two huge suitcases at one in the morning

0:27:58.680 --> 0:27:59.520
<v Speaker 1>and she's bringing.

0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:01.400
<v Speaker 2>A baseball high and he's discussed.

0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:04.159
<v Speaker 1>He goes, nothing puts me off sex more than a

0:28:04.240 --> 0:28:06.600
<v Speaker 1>woman with a huge suitcase case.

0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:11.720
<v Speaker 2>Best line, literally the best line. And he was like,

0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:13.200
<v Speaker 2>caps are discussed.

0:28:13.240 --> 0:28:15.760
<v Speaker 3>He was already like caps are disgusting and a woman

0:28:15.920 --> 0:28:18.840
<v Speaker 3>with a suitcase and he was like he was. She

0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:21.800
<v Speaker 3>said she was tired, which I thought man code for sex,

0:28:22.280 --> 0:28:24.200
<v Speaker 3>but he was like, she actually did want to fall asleep,

0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:27.600
<v Speaker 3>which thank god because with that suitcase, in my vision,

0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:28.760
<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't be able to get hard.

0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:33.200
<v Speaker 1>He hates hats because I feel like half the people

0:28:33.280 --> 0:28:36.680
<v Speaker 1>at Bulta Thar are so with their little moment the

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:39.840
<v Speaker 1>moment yeah, I was literally about to say that with

0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:42.320
<v Speaker 1>the moment design store, like yeah, I literally want to

0:28:42.400 --> 0:28:45.640
<v Speaker 1>throw up. So he says that she's an actress and

0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:50.040
<v Speaker 1>a television show that teenagers watch, and Night sent him

0:28:50.400 --> 0:28:52.440
<v Speaker 1>it's nineteen ninety eight tapes.

0:28:52.800 --> 0:28:54.800
<v Speaker 2>She sent him tapes of the show for him to

0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:55.280
<v Speaker 2>watch so.

0:28:55.320 --> 0:29:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Here are my guesses. Shoot, Katie Holmes, Nev Campbell, Party

0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:05.840
<v Speaker 1>of Five, Michelle Williams Dawson's Creek or then I was like,

0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:10.800
<v Speaker 1>what if it's Heather Locklear from Monroe's Place teen show? Okay,

0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:13.680
<v Speaker 1>because Heather Locklear is so like sexy and badass and

0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:16.760
<v Speaker 1>like kind of would be with big suitcases. Maybe, but

0:29:16.800 --> 0:29:19.960
<v Speaker 1>I could also see Michelle Williams being kind of suitcase.

0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:22.520
<v Speaker 1>But I could also see Nev Campbell being so I'm

0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:23.120
<v Speaker 1>coming in the night.

0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:26.200
<v Speaker 3>I think it's a more Nev. Michelle is like, I

0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:28.160
<v Speaker 3>don't can she carry two suitcases?

0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:30.240
<v Speaker 1>Well? No, that's why he had to carry them up

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:31.440
<v Speaker 1>the stairs. She was rolling it.

0:29:31.560 --> 0:29:35.360
<v Speaker 3>Probably I was imagining it someone from maybe Nino to

0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:39.560
<v Speaker 3>and oh, I'm just like Shannon Doughty Jenny Garth.

0:29:43.400 --> 0:29:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Something's so funny to me about the name Jenny Garth,

0:29:45.520 --> 0:29:48.320
<v Speaker 1>and like always will be. Wait, maybe it is Shannon

0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:49.120
<v Speaker 1>Darty and that's.

0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Why he hooked up with Derinda. He likes blonds.

0:29:51.960 --> 0:29:53.800
<v Speaker 1>He hooked up with Derinda.

0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:57.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they had a quote unquote tour affair for three

0:29:57.440 --> 0:29:58.720
<v Speaker 3>months in nineteen ninety six.

0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Wait, he didn't mention that in the book.

0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:03.880
<v Speaker 2>No, But it like he that was one of his crazies.

0:30:03.960 --> 0:30:06.560
<v Speaker 1>I feel like that's just like him saying something crazy

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:09.920
<v Speaker 1>on Instagram that can't be true. I mean also, they

0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:11.640
<v Speaker 1>are like the same age. That does make sense, right,

0:30:11.680 --> 0:30:12.520
<v Speaker 1>it's not that weird.

0:30:13.280 --> 0:30:15.680
<v Speaker 2>She is always like dating a huge like fat guy.

0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:31.240
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Jenny Gary Spelling, Jenny Garth, Heatherlocklear, Shannon Doherty, Alyssa Milano, charmed.

0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Milano is because he's so she At one point she

0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:36.640
<v Speaker 1>says the thing, She's like, you just tell it like

0:30:36.760 --> 0:30:39.480
<v Speaker 1>it is, and he's just like, oh, that's like she's

0:30:39.560 --> 0:30:42.160
<v Speaker 1>too dumb, like also because I don't tell like it is,

0:30:42.160 --> 0:30:44.880
<v Speaker 1>and I feel like I'm such a faker and like

0:30:45.080 --> 0:30:48.440
<v Speaker 1>I can't like keep this going. And he brings I

0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:51.160
<v Speaker 1>could see a Lissa Milano being like, you really tell

0:30:51.200 --> 0:30:51.480
<v Speaker 1>it like.

0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:54.440
<v Speaker 2>It is, right, Like I love your honesty.

0:30:54.600 --> 0:30:58.320
<v Speaker 3>That's her, and he brings her to his son hockey

0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:01.120
<v Speaker 3>games and staring Jenny Garth.

0:31:01.280 --> 0:31:04.200
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to beat Jenny Garth. Let's go with

0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:07.320
<v Speaker 1>Jenny garrandom so random.

0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:14.320
<v Speaker 2>She said it kid use like tapes, but by ninety

0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:16.240
<v Speaker 2>eight might have been over already done.

0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't know, and but like all the teens

0:31:19.400 --> 0:31:21.640
<v Speaker 1>at his kid's hockey game are recognizing her, So it's like,

0:31:21.880 --> 0:31:23.760
<v Speaker 1>would they be recognizing the Campbell? I mean they would

0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:25.720
<v Speaker 1>where they be recognizing how they're Lockley or maybe not,

0:31:25.800 --> 0:31:28.120
<v Speaker 1>because that was kind of I think is too old,

0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:30.840
<v Speaker 1>too old, And like melrose Place was also like you

0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:32.480
<v Speaker 1>had to be an older team to watch it, not

0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:33.160
<v Speaker 1>a younger team.

0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Right, So it's like ninety eight.

0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Dawson's Well, that's why I'm saying, like, was it Katie.

0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:41.720
<v Speaker 2>William or Michelle or Katie? Katie makes a lot of.

0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:45.239
<v Speaker 1>Sense, yeah, and like Katie is looking for like an

0:31:45.360 --> 0:31:50.640
<v Speaker 1>older man to like make her feel safe, safe family.

0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:52.560
<v Speaker 1>He also said that they were photographed in the post

0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:54.360
<v Speaker 1>together at one point, so I'm like, maybe we can

0:31:54.440 --> 0:31:55.400
<v Speaker 1>just look it up, right.

0:31:55.360 --> 0:31:56.959
<v Speaker 2>Dawson's Creek premier in ninety eight.

0:31:57.360 --> 0:31:57.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:31:57.800 --> 0:31:59.600
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna have to do some more deep diving on this.

0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:01.400
<v Speaker 2>We'll continue our investigation.

0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:04.800
<v Speaker 1>Drop your ideas in the comments about who you think.

0:32:04.880 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 3>But that really riles up Elena and she then is

0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:10.600
<v Speaker 3>like so fucking pissed at him, but they get back

0:32:10.680 --> 0:32:14.240
<v Speaker 3>together after that. He actually has this quote that is

0:32:14.480 --> 0:32:18.560
<v Speaker 3>so true. He said a couple always breaks up or

0:32:18.680 --> 0:32:19.560
<v Speaker 3>usually breaks.

0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Up when they finally get their dream home.

0:32:21.440 --> 0:32:27.040
<v Speaker 1>M yeah, unless you're Ellen and Porsche and Porsias has

0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:29.760
<v Speaker 1>an ankle monitoring on and she's not pready to leave,

0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:31.560
<v Speaker 1>and then you can just buy another house and make

0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:32.840
<v Speaker 1>that your dream house, you know.

0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:36.040
<v Speaker 3>Because he meets his first wife Lynn at working at

0:32:36.200 --> 0:32:39.200
<v Speaker 3>one fifth Ave, which he says also like started what

0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:39.680
<v Speaker 3>it was.

0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:42.000
<v Speaker 1>Like to have a first down and didn't fIF that

0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:43.000
<v Speaker 1>become auto.

0:32:43.000 --> 0:32:46.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh no, yeah auto, but Tali's more where your actual

0:32:47.000 --> 0:32:49.920
<v Speaker 3>friend worked. Literally maxin friend worked when we first moved

0:32:49.920 --> 0:32:51.480
<v Speaker 3>to New York, and she would bring us home like

0:32:52.120 --> 0:32:55.440
<v Speaker 3>so much family meal Penney. Yeah, and that I guess

0:32:55.560 --> 0:32:58.960
<v Speaker 3>opened her world of you know, downtown New York food,

0:32:59.280 --> 0:33:01.160
<v Speaker 3>and honestly say with us because I feel like then

0:33:01.240 --> 0:33:03.400
<v Speaker 3>we like got to go to restaurants again. Some fucked

0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:05.280
<v Speaker 3>up so kind of did the same thing that did

0:33:05.360 --> 0:33:06.000
<v Speaker 3>for keeping.

0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Right, Like the one fifth was our like entry point

0:33:08.360 --> 0:33:11.120
<v Speaker 1>into like the glamorous world of like restaurants, food and

0:33:11.280 --> 0:33:14.680
<v Speaker 1>restaurants and artists and publishers and writers going to.

0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:17.520
<v Speaker 2>Restaurants over there.

0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:21.760
<v Speaker 3>And so at one fifth Ave is where his first

0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:25.480
<v Speaker 3>bad interaction happens with Maplethorpe and Patty Smith.

0:33:25.800 --> 0:33:29.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he sees her reduce a waitress to tears,

0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:31.480
<v Speaker 2>yeah for not bringing bread.

0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Patty Smith is a huge bitch who's shocked.

0:33:35.400 --> 0:33:37.960
<v Speaker 3>Who is shocked, And it's like, the funny thing is

0:33:38.080 --> 0:33:40.720
<v Speaker 3>he also talks about Maplethorpe being still a bitch, but

0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:43.120
<v Speaker 3>less of a bitch, and he's like, actually, when he

0:33:43.280 --> 0:33:44.680
<v Speaker 3>had his leather jacket on.

0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:46.120
<v Speaker 2>He was more of a bitch.

0:33:46.200 --> 0:33:48.480
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, wait this It was like this costume that

0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:51.560
<v Speaker 3>he had on to be this you know, bad boy photographer,

0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:53.160
<v Speaker 3>and he was like and I saw it off.

0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Of him once and it was like he was totally

0:33:55.080 --> 0:33:56.040
<v Speaker 2>different and kind of.

0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Under He goes, although Maplethorpe with this tough boy leather

0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:01.240
<v Speaker 1>jacket image could be terseed with the service, he never

0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:03.960
<v Speaker 1>charged to belittle them the way Smith did. The only

0:34:04.040 --> 0:34:06.920
<v Speaker 1>time I saw Maplethorpe without his leather jacket, when the

0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:11.120
<v Speaker 1>restaurant's air conditioning broke down, he seemed strangely reduced and

0:34:11.480 --> 0:34:15.359
<v Speaker 1>like a policeman out of uniform, surprisingly ordinary looking. Maybe

0:34:15.400 --> 0:34:17.600
<v Speaker 1>it was coincidence, but without the leather jacket, he was

0:34:17.640 --> 0:34:20.960
<v Speaker 1>also friendly to the staff. I mean he's just like

0:34:21.160 --> 0:34:22.400
<v Speaker 1>making up this narrative, but I.

0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:25.920
<v Speaker 2>Mean, yeah, I think it's probably very true.

0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:28.080
<v Speaker 1>A little bit of truth to that. It's like, I'm

0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:30.279
<v Speaker 1>sure the difference between being nice to the staff and

0:34:30.400 --> 0:34:32.400
<v Speaker 1>like Keith's story and him not being nice is just

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:33.880
<v Speaker 1>being like, oh, we have the check and just like

0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:35.239
<v Speaker 1>I'll take the check, you know what I mean.

0:34:35.320 --> 0:34:37.520
<v Speaker 3>It's like a pretty mean I think it's this classic

0:34:37.719 --> 0:34:41.200
<v Speaker 3>like downtown observation people have where it's like, you know,

0:34:41.320 --> 0:34:43.319
<v Speaker 3>maybe you see someone in Dime Square and you think

0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:45.040
<v Speaker 3>they're like so intimidating.

0:34:45.440 --> 0:34:47.280
<v Speaker 2>This isn't me, of course, I'm saying.

0:34:47.160 --> 0:34:50.720
<v Speaker 1>One, Oh, of course you've never been intimidated by anyone

0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:52.360
<v Speaker 1>in Dimes Square, which is actually.

0:34:52.080 --> 0:34:54.319
<v Speaker 3>I'm always like so intimidated by someone, and then it's

0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:56.239
<v Speaker 3>just like and then you see them in this other

0:34:56.400 --> 0:34:59.919
<v Speaker 3>context and you're kind of just like, oh right, you're

0:35:00.160 --> 0:35:03.040
<v Speaker 3>like actually normal, You're not like the king of Downtown,

0:35:03.160 --> 0:35:04.920
<v Speaker 3>or maybe you are, but you're not as scary as

0:35:04.960 --> 0:35:05.279
<v Speaker 3>I thought.

0:35:05.520 --> 0:35:08.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I feel like, you know, Keith has

0:35:08.760 --> 0:35:13.080
<v Speaker 1>this very like he's like intentionally iconoclastic. I guess it's

0:35:13.120 --> 0:35:15.000
<v Speaker 1>like he has this view of himself where he's just

0:35:15.160 --> 0:35:19.759
<v Speaker 1>like I'm such a rakish, I hate everyone. I'm like

0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:23.279
<v Speaker 1>an ugly, nasty man. I'm not having a fucking restaurant tour.

0:35:24.120 --> 0:35:25.799
<v Speaker 1>And like it's you know, and it's it is quick

0:35:25.840 --> 0:35:29.440
<v Speaker 1>to a joke, and you know, I think that's that's beautiful.

0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:31.560
<v Speaker 1>But you know because because he has this like working

0:35:31.600 --> 0:35:33.760
<v Speaker 1>class ship on his shoulder, right, and he's constantly referencing

0:35:33.760 --> 0:35:36.880
<v Speaker 1>the best not going upbringing, and how like he's never

0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:41.120
<v Speaker 1>felt at home in these settings and yet is so

0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:48.719
<v Speaker 1>clearly enamored with this world of a well and it's

0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:52.239
<v Speaker 1>like and is absolutely bragging about all of his relationships

0:35:52.440 --> 0:35:55.480
<v Speaker 1>within a winterur and like and also like dropping so

0:35:55.560 --> 0:35:58.040
<v Speaker 1>many it's like he'll be like he'll reference like you know,

0:35:58.400 --> 0:36:02.960
<v Speaker 1>we just we just like you know in this Camu novel.

0:36:03.000 --> 0:36:06.480
<v Speaker 3>Or no right, it's the classic proof that he has

0:36:06.640 --> 0:36:09.920
<v Speaker 3>now read and he collects art and he takes Limos

0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:10.840
<v Speaker 3>to see every year.

0:36:10.760 --> 0:36:12.320
<v Speaker 1>Right, and he's like, oh, you know, he's like personally

0:36:12.360 --> 0:36:15.359
<v Speaker 1>I love the Fovists and like, I mean abstract expressionism

0:36:15.480 --> 0:36:17.520
<v Speaker 1>not really for me. And you're like, okay, so like

0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:19.919
<v Speaker 1>that's not very working class and like he would maybe

0:36:20.000 --> 0:36:23.520
<v Speaker 1>admit that that's an affectation that he's doing like because

0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:25.879
<v Speaker 1>he has the chip on his shoulder. But like, there

0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:28.080
<v Speaker 1>also is I don't know, as much as like he

0:36:28.239 --> 0:36:30.360
<v Speaker 1>is honest about it, there is also this just like

0:36:30.480 --> 0:36:33.239
<v Speaker 1>kind of never ending performance of being just like I

0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:35.920
<v Speaker 1>actually am really pretentious and I'm pretending that I'm the

0:36:35.960 --> 0:36:37.279
<v Speaker 1>most salt of the earth person, you know.

0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:39.200
<v Speaker 2>Which is he couldn't be who he is.

0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:42.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't think if he was, you know, salt

0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:44.960
<v Speaker 3>of the earth, he couldn't create the most like popular restaurant,

0:36:45.120 --> 0:36:46.600
<v Speaker 3>literally the most popular restaurant in the.

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:48.359
<v Speaker 1>Right because he wouldn't have the taste level.

0:36:48.640 --> 0:36:51.960
<v Speaker 3>Right if I made this quote about Anna Wintour when

0:36:52.200 --> 0:36:55.080
<v Speaker 3>he befriended her at One Fifth f So she came

0:36:55.120 --> 0:36:57.879
<v Speaker 3>in and order eggs benedict. That was her order every time,

0:36:57.880 --> 0:36:59.480
<v Speaker 3>which I think now has changed because I saw a

0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:00.000
<v Speaker 3>video now.

0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:02.680
<v Speaker 1>She why is she so obsessed with always having like

0:37:02.760 --> 0:37:04.560
<v Speaker 1>one because like her whole thing in like Devil Worre's

0:37:04.600 --> 0:37:07.320
<v Speaker 1>product has she only gets the steak and mashed potatoes.

0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:09.600
<v Speaker 3>Right, which is true, And I've heard actually it's not

0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:12.239
<v Speaker 3>even a steak, it's just a hamburger with no bun,

0:37:12.600 --> 0:37:16.160
<v Speaker 3>no bun. Although I made, so he's making He asked

0:37:16.200 --> 0:37:18.640
<v Speaker 3>the chef to make her eggs and they're like, fuck off, no,

0:37:18.960 --> 0:37:21.399
<v Speaker 3>like my services done, so he goes. Although I made

0:37:21.480 --> 0:37:24.520
<v Speaker 3>a hash and the eggs benedit, the incident itself had

0:37:24.640 --> 0:37:28.040
<v Speaker 3>rich consequences. The young woman was future Vogue and Earn

0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:31.320
<v Speaker 3>chief Anna Wintour, and despite coming from opposite ends of

0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:36.280
<v Speaker 3>the English class system, we became friends. Nothing romantic happened

0:37:36.360 --> 0:37:40.719
<v Speaker 3>between us, yet we'd often watch movies together in the afternoon, which,

0:37:40.760 --> 0:37:44.719
<v Speaker 3>outside of the bedroom, is the most intimate thing two

0:37:44.800 --> 0:37:45.839
<v Speaker 3>people can do at.

0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:46.560
<v Speaker 1>That time of day.

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:48.680
<v Speaker 2>I love that line.

0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:53.600
<v Speaker 1>He has a lot of amazing, like just really really

0:37:53.760 --> 0:37:56.760
<v Speaker 1>brilliant observations that he just like drops with such authority.

0:37:56.880 --> 0:37:59.480
<v Speaker 1>I like, right. I love that when he said I'm

0:38:00.239 --> 0:38:02.520
<v Speaker 1>like many divorced fathers. I spent most of the time

0:38:02.560 --> 0:38:05.719
<v Speaker 1>I have with my kids in and around sports, just

0:38:05.840 --> 0:38:08.480
<v Speaker 1>like you have to have this like activity to do

0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:11.520
<v Speaker 1>with your driving, picking up, picking up.

0:38:12.560 --> 0:38:17.560
<v Speaker 3>Also, the day when Anna Wintour was just watching Taxi

0:38:17.800 --> 0:38:22.400
<v Speaker 3>Driver at a theeder on Houston with Keith at four pm.

0:38:22.520 --> 0:38:26.560
<v Speaker 1>Because because New York City used to have theaters Bay

0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:30.000
<v Speaker 1>it used to have cinemas, it used to have everything.

0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:33.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is why he's such a like figure

0:38:33.080 --> 0:38:34.920
<v Speaker 1>of our time. And like you know, we all like

0:38:35.080 --> 0:38:37.520
<v Speaker 1>he became like very famous, like the Instagram and then

0:38:37.600 --> 0:38:39.440
<v Speaker 1>like he does talk about his Instagram later on the

0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:41.759
<v Speaker 1>book and the whole James Corden thing, and like I

0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:43.880
<v Speaker 1>like that he admits to being so like thirsty for.

0:38:44.080 --> 0:38:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Likes, but like he was good.

0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:48.799
<v Speaker 1>He's such a retro fetishist and like, you know, there

0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:51.000
<v Speaker 1>is this real overlap with the whole like you know,

0:38:51.480 --> 0:38:55.640
<v Speaker 1>downtown New York City, like whether it's dimesquare reactionary or

0:38:55.680 --> 0:38:58.840
<v Speaker 1>it's just the whole general like trend of all like

0:38:59.120 --> 0:39:03.160
<v Speaker 1>restaurants and bars and everything being retrotinged. He is one

0:39:03.239 --> 0:39:05.800
<v Speaker 1>hundred percent of that moment and like he is like

0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:08.640
<v Speaker 1>he's still doing that and people are still fucking living

0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:10.400
<v Speaker 1>for it, and they're still just like I want to

0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:13.840
<v Speaker 1>red both on a martini. What a fucking photograph of

0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:17.480
<v Speaker 1>a nineteen forties boxer framed above that?

0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:21.040
<v Speaker 3>Like no, you talk like and I think, I mean

0:39:21.080 --> 0:39:23.080
<v Speaker 3>we've talked about this a lot, but it was like

0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:27.719
<v Speaker 3>the thirst for what the McNally universe creative.

0:39:27.840 --> 0:39:30.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, at the end, like coming out of the pandemic.

0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:32.560
<v Speaker 3>That is all people want it because they wanted state.

0:39:32.640 --> 0:39:35.920
<v Speaker 3>They wanted you know, vodka and red meat, you know,

0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:38.800
<v Speaker 3>and the excess and what he's created and leather jackets

0:39:38.880 --> 0:39:41.040
<v Speaker 3>and red booths and as he says, and.

0:39:41.239 --> 0:39:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Thin girls dancing, like let's say.

0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:46.440
<v Speaker 2>That because girls dancing within booths and part.

0:39:46.320 --> 0:39:49.600
<v Speaker 1>Of his like I'm photographing like women who've had kids

0:39:49.680 --> 0:39:52.040
<v Speaker 1>or whoever he describes like a woman not being thinn

0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:55.680
<v Speaker 1>like is because like what he really loves and what

0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:58.040
<v Speaker 1>like the whole world he's creating it is about like

0:39:58.400 --> 0:40:01.319
<v Speaker 1>thin girls dancing and it is it's like this more

0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:07.920
<v Speaker 1>like raventist you know America. Yeah, like fetishism, which.

0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:11.200
<v Speaker 3>We have to if we can now lead into talk

0:40:11.280 --> 0:40:13.920
<v Speaker 3>about a place I've never been of his. I think

0:40:13.920 --> 0:40:16.560
<v Speaker 3>it was closed before my time, Pravda.

0:40:16.800 --> 0:40:18.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean the name Pravda alone.

0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:24.960
<v Speaker 2>It's like I so sex and the city time to

0:40:25.160 --> 0:40:26.120
<v Speaker 2>go to Pravda.

0:40:26.520 --> 0:40:31.320
<v Speaker 3>This was his like eastern block like themed bar and

0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:35.880
<v Speaker 3>soho that where he hired like sexy waitresses and it

0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:39.840
<v Speaker 3>was like so many like canisters flavored vodka. And I

0:40:39.920 --> 0:40:43.120
<v Speaker 3>looked at this old Pravda ad it just it brought

0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:46.319
<v Speaker 3>me back to being a teenager looking at ads. Yeah,

0:40:46.920 --> 0:40:49.399
<v Speaker 3>like absolute ads, being like I can't wait to move

0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:52.560
<v Speaker 3>to New York City. And it's like women's mouths laughing.

0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:58.239
<v Speaker 1>It's a joke, block letters women and heals and well.

0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:01.360
<v Speaker 1>When he describes meeting his second wife, Elena, who was

0:41:01.440 --> 0:41:04.000
<v Speaker 1>half Japanese, although she was born in awais Shoud grew

0:41:04.040 --> 0:41:05.560
<v Speaker 1>up be to Aska with her mother and three siblings.

0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:08.040
<v Speaker 1>And this was at the next time. I was two

0:41:08.040 --> 0:41:10.440
<v Speaker 1>weeks later at Pravda, a subterranean vodkabar.

0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:14.359
<v Speaker 2>I owned the phrase a subterranean subterranean.

0:41:14.719 --> 0:41:16.480
<v Speaker 1>It was raining heavily, the night in the place was

0:41:16.719 --> 0:41:20.200
<v Speaker 1>packed and steamy. I was helping they made her DC

0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:22.839
<v Speaker 1>customers and Elena walked in with some girlfriends. I took

0:41:22.880 --> 0:41:25.279
<v Speaker 1>a break and sat down with them. It's like, it's

0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:28.800
<v Speaker 1>the most sex in the city scene you could describe. Sorry, Alena,

0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:31.840
<v Speaker 1>she's half Japanese and so glamorous, and she's like you

0:41:31.920 --> 0:41:34.440
<v Speaker 1>can just picture this wearing this like sheath red dress,

0:41:34.520 --> 0:41:38.960
<v Speaker 1>little she dress, long, straight hair side inside, coming in

0:41:39.040 --> 0:41:42.480
<v Speaker 1>with all her girlfriends and their keels closed and they're laughing.

0:41:42.480 --> 0:41:45.560
<v Speaker 3>And it's like soaking wet outside and Carrie it's like

0:41:45.719 --> 0:41:48.239
<v Speaker 3>voice over comes in and being like there's only one

0:41:48.320 --> 0:41:51.600
<v Speaker 3>place to be on a rainy Saturday night, Pravda, the

0:41:51.800 --> 0:41:53.839
<v Speaker 3>downtown Russian themed.

0:41:53.640 --> 0:41:55.640
<v Speaker 2>Vodka he goes.

0:41:55.880 --> 0:41:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Just before closing time, the DJ played a Cat Stephens

0:41:58.520 --> 0:42:03.360
<v Speaker 1>song Moonshadow. Elina said she loved Cat Stevens because he

0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:09.360
<v Speaker 1>had such integrity to bring us closer, and said, I agreed, No.

0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:10.200
<v Speaker 2>He's such a cat.

0:42:10.280 --> 0:42:12.879
<v Speaker 3>But hearing his voice, that's funny, Like he actually does

0:42:13.000 --> 0:42:14.560
<v Speaker 3>sound kind of this is pretty stroke.

0:42:14.640 --> 0:42:16.880
<v Speaker 2>He does sound kind of gay, not just in like

0:42:16.920 --> 0:42:18.680
<v Speaker 2>a British people are gay way, but it is.

0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:21.640
<v Speaker 1>Like, so this brings us back to the guilty bottom

0:42:22.640 --> 0:42:24.719
<v Speaker 1>the post Catman do a guilty bottom.

0:42:26.080 --> 0:42:28.399
<v Speaker 3>And a lot of times he says in this book,

0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:31.520
<v Speaker 3>which I think is also true maybe of like a

0:42:31.719 --> 0:42:37.880
<v Speaker 3>middle aged bricking class man rose up in ranks, is

0:42:38.120 --> 0:42:40.080
<v Speaker 3>he's afraid of hanging out with men as a group

0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:41.040
<v Speaker 3>straight men.

0:42:41.360 --> 0:42:44.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, he's very fearful of that.

0:42:44.280 --> 0:42:46.400
<v Speaker 3>And you know there's this hole there's which was a

0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:49.160
<v Speaker 3>famous Instagram post of his where there was a group

0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:52.239
<v Speaker 3>of you know, Wall Street traders who ordered the most

0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:55.680
<v Speaker 3>expensive bottle of wine, a bolts Us Bolt Boltzar.

0:42:55.400 --> 0:42:57.279
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, and this isn't the book, Yeah, this is

0:42:57.320 --> 0:42:57.920
<v Speaker 1>a yeah.

0:42:57.920 --> 0:43:01.120
<v Speaker 2>And then a couple who ordered the pino on the menu,

0:43:01.360 --> 0:43:01.600
<v Speaker 2>and the.

0:43:01.680 --> 0:43:06.320
<v Speaker 1>Couple saw the Wall Street guys getting their Chateau Child

0:43:07.040 --> 0:43:10.360
<v Speaker 1>like three decanted, and they were like, wait, can we

0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:13.120
<v Speaker 1>have ours decanted? And so they kind of has a joke,

0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:17.000
<v Speaker 1>and so they decanted their pino and then somehow the

0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:21.000
<v Speaker 1>it was it was switched, and so the Wall Street

0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:23.439
<v Speaker 1>guys get the cheap pino.

0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:27.200
<v Speaker 2>And they're swirling it being like the Tannins.

0:43:27.040 --> 0:43:29.680
<v Speaker 1>And then the and then the couple is swirling the

0:43:29.800 --> 0:43:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Chateau muton Roth's Child, not realizing that it's like a

0:43:33.600 --> 0:43:35.960
<v Speaker 1>three thousand dollars bottle of wine, and they're pretending to

0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:37.440
<v Speaker 1>be like, oh the tanni.

0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:41.440
<v Speaker 3>When actually and then so the you know, the waiter

0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:44.319
<v Speaker 3>realizes his mistake and calls Keith, and Keith comes down

0:43:44.360 --> 0:43:47.239
<v Speaker 3>to the restaurant. Keith is like, I was afraid of

0:43:47.360 --> 0:43:48.799
<v Speaker 3>even approaching.

0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:50.240
<v Speaker 1>The Wall Street traders, Yeah.

0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:52.960
<v Speaker 3>Because like I'm afraid of a group of men. Yeah,

0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:54.520
<v Speaker 3>and what do I do in this situation?

0:43:54.680 --> 0:43:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Do I tell the truth?

0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:58.400
<v Speaker 1>And he did he did because he was like, I

0:43:58.440 --> 0:44:00.520
<v Speaker 1>mean I think he realized like obviously he loved the

0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:02.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of romance of like letting them believe it.

0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:05.080
<v Speaker 2>But I think he's so funny to kind of like

0:44:05.239 --> 0:44:06.439
<v Speaker 2>play a prank on these things.

0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:08.399
<v Speaker 1>If they found out, like they would be so mad

0:44:08.440 --> 0:44:10.480
<v Speaker 1>and it would be like such a liability. But I

0:44:10.600 --> 0:44:13.640
<v Speaker 1>really like this thing where he goes so knowing he's

0:44:13.640 --> 0:44:16.000
<v Speaker 1>talking about the couple. So when the actor like, they

0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:19.160
<v Speaker 1>fixed the mistake, so they then they give the the

0:44:19.320 --> 0:44:21.680
<v Speaker 1>rich guys like they open another bottle. So he's kind

0:44:21.680 --> 0:44:23.200
<v Speaker 1>of out two thousand dollars.

0:44:23.200 --> 0:44:25.720
<v Speaker 2>Right, but he's like it's worth it. And his also

0:44:25.840 --> 0:44:29.279
<v Speaker 2>his fear was that he didn't want to also embarrass

0:44:29.360 --> 0:44:30.120
<v Speaker 2>the trader.

0:44:30.000 --> 0:44:31.600
<v Speaker 1>Yes, so that they would have to admit. But then

0:44:31.640 --> 0:44:33.200
<v Speaker 1>of course they all immediately a like, oh I knew

0:44:33.239 --> 0:44:36.600
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't a rothschild. But then he goes talking about

0:44:36.600 --> 0:44:38.480
<v Speaker 1>the couple. So the couple just gets to keep drinking

0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:41.879
<v Speaker 1>the fancy wine that they accidentally open for them, knowing

0:44:41.960 --> 0:44:44.960
<v Speaker 1>they were drinking expensive wine for real. They switched from

0:44:45.040 --> 0:44:48.480
<v Speaker 1>acting out drinking expensive wine in jest to acting out

0:44:48.520 --> 0:44:52.080
<v Speaker 1>in earnest, which was a pity in ways I couldn't explain,

0:44:52.880 --> 0:44:53.279
<v Speaker 1>which is.

0:44:53.400 --> 0:44:57.080
<v Speaker 3>That such an amazing sentence it's a he's kind of

0:44:57.200 --> 0:45:00.040
<v Speaker 3>watching like how he has changed.

0:44:59.800 --> 0:45:03.279
<v Speaker 1>And yes, yes, yes, exactly, he's watching how he does

0:45:03.400 --> 0:45:04.080
<v Speaker 1>exactly it.

0:45:04.680 --> 0:45:05.319
<v Speaker 2>Right, it's crazy.

0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:08.360
<v Speaker 3>It's like he's being like, oh, but the romance of

0:45:08.560 --> 0:45:11.359
<v Speaker 3>making fun of rich people, it's all gone because now

0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:12.799
<v Speaker 3>you are literally just being there.

0:45:12.880 --> 0:45:18.239
<v Speaker 1>Yes, oh, oh my god. That is brilliant, doctor Lily.

0:45:18.360 --> 0:45:21.520
<v Speaker 1>That that's exactly what it is. He's he's seeing his

0:45:21.719 --> 0:45:25.399
<v Speaker 1>own selling out or is it cashing in? He would say,

0:45:25.440 --> 0:45:31.520
<v Speaker 1>there's a difference that is there, and that is the

0:45:31.680 --> 0:45:34.359
<v Speaker 1>end of part one of our Key McNally episode. Stay

0:45:34.400 --> 0:45:38.120
<v Speaker 1>tuned for next week when we discuss chillers, Minetta Tavern,

0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:42.360
<v Speaker 1>the rules of service at Balthasar Class, analysis of salvage

0:45:42.400 --> 0:45:46.640
<v Speaker 1>workers versus antique store owners. Keith McNally is an anti

0:45:46.680 --> 0:45:52.960
<v Speaker 1>woke icon, the deep rift between Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket

0:45:54.000 --> 0:45:57.800
<v Speaker 1>and mythologizing the past, which is something we love to

0:45:57.840 --> 0:46:01.279
<v Speaker 1>do here. On the thought. To hear that episode, which

0:46:01.280 --> 0:46:04.000
<v Speaker 1>will be out next Wednesday, quit to patroon dot com

0:46:04.040 --> 0:46:06.840
<v Speaker 1>slash tvc the pod where you also get new episodes

0:46:06.840 --> 0:46:09.319
<v Speaker 1>every Friday. There's another one this Friday too, so it's

0:46:09.400 --> 0:46:10.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of content