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Speaker 1: Ah beat Force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software a Gradio Special Operations

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Speaker 1: military news and straight talk with the guys and the

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Speaker 1: community softwarep Radio on Time on Target. I would say, uh,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's quite a lot going on in special

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Speaker 1: operations related news right now, and I feel like most

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Speaker 1: of this audience knows exactly what I'm talking never at

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Speaker 1: dull moment. Yeah, if you've been following the News Rep,

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Speaker 1: following our Instagram Twitter, uh, and involves some familiar names.

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Speaker 1: So you wrote an article that went up yesterday. As

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Speaker 1: we're recording this on the news Rep dot com, I guess,

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Speaker 1: just for those not in the know, let's give the

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Speaker 1: whole backstory of what's going on right now. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: this story started to break um with Haitian newspapers and

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Speaker 1: you know, local Haitian journalists, and then it got picked

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Speaker 1: up by the Miami Herald um ostensibly because they're so

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Speaker 1: close to the Caribbean and they probably have tax down

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Speaker 1: in Haiti, so they were kind of all over that story,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I think they did a pretty good job

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Speaker 1: with it. But the story that emerged was that a

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Speaker 1: group of American and Serbian private security contractors were arrested

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Speaker 1: down in uh Porto, Prince Haiti. This was just over

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Speaker 1: the weekend and they when the police came up and

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Speaker 1: questioned them, I think they became initially suspicious because it

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Speaker 1: was a pickup truck and an suv about a block

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Speaker 1: away from the Haitian Central Bank, and it had the

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Speaker 1: license plates removed, so that's you know, an indicator. You're like, well,

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Speaker 1: what's going on here? And then the police went and

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Speaker 1: they started asking them. Then it was these you know,

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Speaker 1: white foreign guys, and they said they were working for

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Speaker 1: the government, but they couldn't identify themselves. And it turned

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Speaker 1: out they had all kinds of weapons and everything inside

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Speaker 1: the vehicles. You know. Um, you know, pictures that were

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Speaker 1: taken by the police show all these M four rifles.

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Speaker 1: Uh and uh they took So they took these guys

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Speaker 1: into custody because they couldn't identify themselves. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: can't fault the police for that. I mean, it seems

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Speaker 1: reasonable that there's a bunch of arners with vehicles with

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Speaker 1: the license plates missing, you know, in vehicles filled with guns.

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Speaker 1: You know, the police are gonna take an interest in that.

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Speaker 1: Um and and to be honest, they stand out as

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Speaker 1: these white contracts and predominantly black, sure for sure. So

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Speaker 1: uh it starts to hit the press. Um, the names

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Speaker 1: start to start to come out. Um, some of the

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Speaker 1: political people, the Prime Minister's off it starts talking about

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Speaker 1: how these are white terrorists and mercenaries and things like this. Um.

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Speaker 1: Some of the names that started coming out, Um, you

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Speaker 1: know the one that jumps out to me, or jumped

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Speaker 1: out to me when I was looking at uh it

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Speaker 1: was like a blog I think. Actually down in Haiti

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Speaker 1: was Christopher Osmond. And okay, Chris Osmond was a Navy seal.

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Speaker 1: And then the Miami Herald picked up on another one

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Speaker 1: of the names, h Chris McKinley, who was formerly Chris

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Speaker 1: Heben also form or Navy seal. Uh. McKinley was Seal

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Speaker 1: Team eight and Osman was Seal Team three, and you

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Speaker 1: guys may remember changed his name after a you know what,

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Speaker 1: you guys could do the research, but pretty much a

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Speaker 1: concocted story about getting shot by these It was a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago. Um, Chris he been at that time,

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Speaker 1: now McKinley, he claimed to that these three African Americans

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Speaker 1: came by in a vehicle and started yelling, you know,

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Speaker 1: like racial slurs at him and that it was because

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Speaker 1: he um badmouthed Obama on CNN, and then shot him

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Speaker 1: in the abdomen and then sped off in their car,

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Speaker 1: and according to McKinley's account, he like tried to plug

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Speaker 1: the bullet wound, got in his car and started chasing

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Speaker 1: after them, and then realized, you know, oh shit, I'm shot.

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Speaker 1: Actually this doesn't feel so hot, and drove himself to

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Speaker 1: the hospital. Uh. And the police refuted that. They were like, well,

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Speaker 1: this isn't shown in the security cameras from the nearby

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Speaker 1: fire department. The self owned records from McKinley don't match

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Speaker 1: up with where he said he was. And apparently I

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Speaker 1: was reading a news story yesterday there was a police

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Speaker 1: cruiser two policemen parked about sixty five ft away from

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Speaker 1: where this alleged incident took place, and they were like,

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Speaker 1: what what are you talking about? So they charged him

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Speaker 1: with making false statements to the police and he was

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Speaker 1: found not guilty in court. So you make of that

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Speaker 1: what you will, um. And then there was a former

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Speaker 1: marine Kent Croker, who works with Croker Partners. Although Croker Partners.

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Speaker 1: Their website has this disclaimer up on it and it says,

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Speaker 1: hold on, I'm looking at it now right here. Croker

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Speaker 1: Partners LLC has no active engagements underway in Haiti and

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Speaker 1: is not in a position offer comments on recent developments

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Speaker 1: in the country. That said, despite the fact that their

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Speaker 1: chief operations officer was just arrested down there. Um, this

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Speaker 1: couple of Serbian guys, one of them is a naturalized

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Speaker 1: American resident. So um, he worked for a company called

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Speaker 1: Case seventeen that I was doing a little bit of

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Speaker 1: research on. I think they're downs based down in the Washington,

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Speaker 1: D C. Area. Um, But what company was actually contracting

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Speaker 1: these guys? Um? There there was some sort of um

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Speaker 1: front maybe front company sounds a little too nefarious, but

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Speaker 1: there was some sort of contracting company that they had

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Speaker 1: to have bid on the contract for in order to

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Speaker 1: secure it. I mean, that'll all come out in the wash.

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Speaker 1: So backtrack a little bit, um and speaking to my

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Speaker 1: source on the subject, what actually happened here was that

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Speaker 1: these guys, this group of guys, had been hired by

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Speaker 1: the Haitian Central Bank. And if you pull down the article,

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Speaker 1: you'll have to forgive my horrible French accent, but it

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Speaker 1: is uh, stop right there, Uh the Bank Deulla Republic,

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Speaker 1: the Haiti b R h uh, which is it's basically

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Speaker 1: the Haitian Treasury Department. And from what I've been told,

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Speaker 1: they hired these guys Osman McKinley, Croker and their their

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Speaker 1: associates to go down there and do v i P.

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Speaker 1: Security UM, to do like uh security consultations, UM like

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Speaker 1: security like infrastructure type assessments, security assessments, and to do

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Speaker 1: um armed security for city to city monetary transfers within Haiti.

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Speaker 1: So in this sense, now this is where you get

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Speaker 1: into some of the gray areas. I mean, these guys

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Speaker 1: were not down there running like some sort of like

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Speaker 1: fly by night mercenary operation or coup or or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. Like they you have to look at it

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Speaker 1: from their perspective. They look at it like I'm contracting

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Speaker 1: with the Haitian federal government. It's not like they're working

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Speaker 1: for some criminal element. So so in their minds everything

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Speaker 1: is on the up and up. But here's the thing,

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Speaker 1: as it turns out, of course, is that you're contracting

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Speaker 1: with one faction of the Haitian federal government. It's not

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Speaker 1: like you're contracting with the U. S. Government, where we

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Speaker 1: have like a relatively uh normal federalized system where you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not like if you go and work for the Republicans,

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Speaker 1: the Democrats are going to come and arrest you, or

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Speaker 1: if you work for you know, a local state government,

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Speaker 1: the federal government won't be in the know or something

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Speaker 1: like that, right right, It's like if you do a contracting,

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Speaker 1: you know, armed guard work for you know, the state

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Speaker 1: of New York, It's not like the FBI is going

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Speaker 1: to come and arrest you for that over some sort

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Speaker 1: of like intra political, intra political feud that they have

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Speaker 1: going on between the state and federal government. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's like the sort of Banana Republic stuff that we

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Speaker 1: don't have here in the United States thankfully. But Haiti,

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Speaker 1: of course. I mean it's a third world country. They

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Speaker 1: are destitute, it's impoverished, corruption is endemic. I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: talked to people I've never been there myself. I've talked

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Speaker 1: to people who have worked security down there, including Jim

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Speaker 1: West worked a security detail down there back that was

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Speaker 1: way back in the nineties. But I've talked to also

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Speaker 1: a friend of mine who did a documentary down there,

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Speaker 1: and um, it's just a deplorable situation. It's a really

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Speaker 1: sad situation that the people who live down there have

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Speaker 1: to live in. So that's just a little bit of

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Speaker 1: context to that. Um. And so the problem was for

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Speaker 1: these former seals and this marine when they went down there.

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Speaker 1: From what I've been told, the central Bank didn't give

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Speaker 1: them identification cards. The it's called the bank is br H.

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Speaker 1: So Um, the central Bank didn't give them identification cards

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Speaker 1: and did not inform the local police, didn't tell them

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Speaker 1: that they were there. So again, from the perspective of

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Speaker 1: the local police, you can't really fault them for for

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Speaker 1: making this arrest. I mean, they were right to be suspicious. Um.

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Speaker 1: And once they made the arrest. Now now these contractors

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Speaker 1: are caught up and in this the middle of this

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Speaker 1: political feud, because from what has come out through the

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Speaker 1: Miami Herald, it looks as if the President's office hired

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Speaker 1: these guys through the Central Bank to do this extra

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Speaker 1: security work. The Prime Minister on the meantime, the Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister and the President or arrivals and hate each other

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Speaker 1: and down in Haiti, and so the Prime Minister's office

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Speaker 1: the second he sees this arrest, he's using it for

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Speaker 1: his political advantage, and he's saying these guys are foreign

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Speaker 1: mercenaries and are here to assault the executive office, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And that just isn't true that that that's not what

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Speaker 1: was happening there. Um. So they get arrested on what

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Speaker 1: on Sunday I believe it was, And then yesterday they

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Speaker 1: were all released and the the U. S. Embassy personnel

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Speaker 1: escorted them to the airport and had them flown to Miami.

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Speaker 1: So and and from what we saw because there's a

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Speaker 1: video of it on your regular commercial flight, yeah correct. Um, so,

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Speaker 1: I mean, thank goodness for that. And um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I know Chris Osmond has this kind of weird obsession

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Speaker 1: with with this company. Uh. And you know we can

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Speaker 1: get into that just I'm just gonna touch a touch

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Speaker 1: upon it and the interest of full disclosure, um that

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Speaker 1: he has had this like long running, very public feud

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Speaker 1: on social media with Brandon Webb, who is the CEO

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Speaker 1: of Hurricane And and this audience knows Brandon because Brandon,

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Speaker 1: you know early is on the party. He'll be back

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Speaker 1: on a couple of weeks and and news rap and

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Speaker 1: soft WAP Radio are properties of Hurricane. So you know,

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Speaker 1: essentially Brandon Webb is my boss. He's he's the guy

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Speaker 1: I answer to if anything comes up. And um, I

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Speaker 1: mean we have editorial discretion I do. I pretty much

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Speaker 1: do what I want. But as far as like business decisions,

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Speaker 1: you know, Brandon is at the helm right, UM So

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to disclose that. UM. Now, despite

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Speaker 1: Chris Osman spreading these very like asinine conspiracy theories on

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Speaker 1: social media about about this company and even even revealing

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Speaker 1: details of my personal life on his Instagram, which I

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Speaker 1: didn't appreciate, and you know, people would send me screenshots

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Speaker 1: of it, like well, Chris Osmond's talking about your honeymoon

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Speaker 1: and stuff. I'm like, this is weird, Like this guy

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Speaker 1: needs to get a life or figure his own thing

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Speaker 1: out whatever this is about. But I try to separate

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Speaker 1: myself from that. And long story short, as distasteful of

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Speaker 1: some of the things I think Osmond has done, UM,

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Speaker 1: I would not wish Haitian prison on anyone. And when

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Speaker 1: I came in here or when I was prepping to

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Speaker 1: do this, um this podcast last night, I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: as I was writing this article that that we published yesterday,

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Speaker 1: I was like thinking, we're gonna have to come in

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Speaker 1: here and talk about the human rights conditions and Haitian prisons,

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Speaker 1: and you know that U. S citizens are down there

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Speaker 1: being abused, and I would not wish that on on

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Speaker 1: Osman or McKinley or anybody. I mean, that is just

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Speaker 1: a fucking horrible thing. And again, looking at it from

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Speaker 1: their perspective, they're like, hey, we were working for the

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Speaker 1: Haitian government, Like what's the problem. We weren't working for

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Speaker 1: like a drug carteller or something like leave us alone. Um,

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Speaker 1: But I'm glad that they got released and that they're

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Speaker 1: back in in the United States now. As we understand it,

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Speaker 1: these guys were arrested when they landed in Miami. Uh

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Speaker 1: it's not clear yet what the charges um were they

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Speaker 1: arrested for, quote unquote you know, mercenary activities. Uh. There's

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Speaker 1: also the question of the weapons. So they got arrested

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Speaker 1: with all those those rifles. The question is how did

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Speaker 1: they get there? Were those weapons um acquired locally in Haiti?

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Speaker 1: Because employees of the central bank are allowed to be

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Speaker 1: armed because obviously there's a high chance that that the

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Speaker 1: bank could be rob obed or that there could be

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Speaker 1: a transit heist, you know, as you're moving money around. UM.

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Speaker 1: And there are quite a few guns in Haiti to

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Speaker 1: say the least. So maybe they were locally acquired. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they were you know, um, property of the Haitian government,

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Speaker 1: which were that was, and they were issued to these

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Speaker 1: guys when they arrived in Haiti. UM. But then there's

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Speaker 1: a question were they brought from the United States? And

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Speaker 1: then the question becomes were they brought legally? Um? Because

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Speaker 1: if that stuff isn't all, you know, blessed off on,

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Speaker 1: like you cross your teas and dot your eyes like

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Speaker 1: that is serious federal time for weapons trafficking. UM. Just

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Speaker 1: a little sidebar on on that story. And I mean, funcket.

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Speaker 1: I'll just I'm just gonna tell this story without mentioning

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Speaker 1: the person's name because people would recognize it. A friend

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Speaker 1: of mine reached out to me, this was maybe five

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Speaker 1: years ago, four years ago, and he was going to

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Speaker 1: meet with a security company. Again fairly not not a

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Speaker 1: company that's known for like um, providing armed guards or

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Speaker 1: security contract but a company that's involved in security let's say,

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Speaker 1: let's just say physical security here in the United States

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Speaker 1: and elsewhere, and has pretty instant name brand recognition. He

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Speaker 1: was contacted by the owner of this company who wanted

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Speaker 1: to send this gentleman, I know, to Molly to conduct

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Speaker 1: offensive operations like shooting people, killing people, UM, to take

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Speaker 1: over some gold mine or some some mining facility. UM.

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Speaker 1: And wanted my friend to take sniper rifles with him

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Speaker 1: over there and go and kill people. That this fucking mind.

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Speaker 1: And I told my buddy, I was like, listen, bro,

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Speaker 1: this has FBI sting all over it, like just walk away.

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Speaker 1: And and he did, thankfully. But it just goes to

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Speaker 1: show it's like what we were talking about with a

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Speaker 1: contracting job in um in uh Yemen with dale Comstock.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, I stand by what I said in

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Speaker 1: that case, like I have to in courage, you know,

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Speaker 1: other veterans out there, don't get involved in this ship

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Speaker 1: like please for your own se I remember you said

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Speaker 1: that prior to the interview with delcom Stocks, so we

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Speaker 1: didn't even know dal was involved at the time that.

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Speaker 1: And I remember you went on kind of a a better

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Speaker 1: rent just like you know, you may think this sounds cool,

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Speaker 1: it sounds very romantic, but I mean, don't do it, man.

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Speaker 1: And and I know that or I'm sure that Osman

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Speaker 1: and McKinley felt like everything was on the up and

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Speaker 1: up because they're contracting with the Haitian government, but they

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Speaker 1: probably were not aware of the political situation and maybe

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Speaker 1: not the social situation in Haiti. And you know that

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Speaker 1: proved to be their undoing in some ways. Um. So

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Speaker 1: even if their contracts domestically, like like we covered, um,

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Speaker 1: the Tiger Swan deal out at the Dakota Access Pipeline. Like, man,

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Speaker 1: you gotta be really really careful about this kind of stuff. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it's one thing if you're contracting for the US

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Speaker 1: government working uh, you know at the g RS stuff,

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Speaker 1: or if you're you're a Green Badge or a contractor

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Speaker 1: even working for you know, Ground Branch or some other

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Speaker 1: paramilitary aspect of the Central Intelligence Agency. That's one thing man.

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Speaker 1: I mean you're protected by the US government, but you

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Speaker 1: go overseas and you start working in these shady contracts

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Speaker 1: and you have to understand that first off, whatever you do,

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Speaker 1: you are no longer a uniformed American soldier. You are

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Speaker 1: not working under Title ten of the US Code, which

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Speaker 1: which authorizes US military action. Um, you are not protected

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Speaker 1: by the Geneva Convention. You are not protected by American law.

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Speaker 1: Because you are outside the United States, you have basically

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Speaker 1: zero protection, what's none whatsoever. UM. So I would encourage

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Speaker 1: you know, young guys, young rangers, young seals, whoever it is,

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Speaker 1: when you're looking at these contracts um and taking them like,

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Speaker 1: take them to an attorney, have it reviewed first. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people have this a no. And that you

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Speaker 1: know because this, uh, this contracting company is owned by

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Speaker 1: a former seal or a former Delta Force screen beret,

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Speaker 1: whoever it is, that that it's legit. The reality of

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Speaker 1: the vast, vast majority of these companies is just a

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Speaker 1: website that looks really professional and we do risk mitigation

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Speaker 1: and maritime security and this and that, um when really

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Speaker 1: it's just like one guy, maybe two guys UM. And

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Speaker 1: what they do is they go out and just bid

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Speaker 1: on every other every contract they can find. And what

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Speaker 1: they're doing is trying to underbid the competition. So they

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Speaker 1: will put in recklessly low bids on contracts to try

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Speaker 1: to get to secure that that contract for themselves, and

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Speaker 1: then they have to fill the contract with a miniscule

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Speaker 1: budget because they underbid everyone else. UM. So, these companies

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Speaker 1: will make it look as if they have a bunch

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Speaker 1: of former you know, Delta operators, like hardcore stand up

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Speaker 1: dudes on standby, ready to go fulfill the terms of

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Speaker 1: the contract. But really it's just one guy working for

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Speaker 1: this this company. And now they're going to be as

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Speaker 1: surprise as anyone else when they actually get the contract

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Speaker 1: and they're like, oh ship, and now they have to

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Speaker 1: fill it out. They have to flesh it out with personnel.

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Speaker 1: So you just start making phone calls to whoever is available,

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Speaker 1: and you don't get necessarily the most professional people. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that to take a cheap shot

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Speaker 1: at the guys who are on this particular contract. And

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say in this case when you say

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Speaker 1: make phone calls. These guys both had a very big

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Speaker 1: social media presence. I believe McKinley deleted his Instagram. We

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Speaker 1: know Osman is big on Instagram, So if you're out there,

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Speaker 1: you know, talking about your credentials, easy guy to find.

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Speaker 1: Dell Comms Deck is pretty active on social media as well.

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Speaker 1: That's actually an interesting point you're making their in because

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Speaker 1: I was told the same thing about the Dappa contract. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know that the Tiger swan not just Tiger Swan,

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Speaker 1: but other companies out there UM doing the Dakota Access

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Speaker 1: pipeline contract. They suddenly got this money thrown at them

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Speaker 1: to do site security for the pipeline. And I was

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Speaker 1: told by several people that that's what it turned into,

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Speaker 1: that it was a rush to find personnel. And they

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Speaker 1: were basically just like finding people on social media and

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Speaker 1: like sending them makes sense, sending them d M s

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Speaker 1: like hey, bro, you available and come out here and

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Speaker 1: do this and and doing and and in doing that,

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Speaker 1: you don't necessarily get the most professional, most qualified people,

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Speaker 1: but you're able, you know what, Unlike um, you know,

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Speaker 1: someone making a linked In profile or something you could

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Speaker 1: see through Chris Osmond's profile and all that that he is,

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00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: regardless of his UM reputation, is legit as an ABC. Right.

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Speaker 1: It's the fast, easy way to do it, UM. But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily give you the best results. UM. So

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a weird situation. And that's why when

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Speaker 1: you start talking about private security contracting companies, private intelligence firms,

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Speaker 1: so many of them are just a cluster fuck. I

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Speaker 1: mean they're really a joke. Um. When when you start

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Speaker 1: like you see the fat man behind the curtain and

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00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 1: it's like, this is not cool at all. It's really

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Speaker 1: just a fly by night kind of operation, um that

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Speaker 1: skirts the the the the line of the law very carefully. Um.

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Speaker 1: But again, despite all of this, that's just a little background.

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Speaker 1: You know that I hope, you know, some other veterans

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00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 1: listening to this can put in their back pocket and

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Speaker 1: take with them before they get involved in something like this,

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Speaker 1: because I hate to see any of our guys end

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Speaker 1: up in that kind of situation. Um. But again, I

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Speaker 1: am glad that Osmond and McKinley and Croker and all

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Speaker 1: these other guys have been released from Haiti because they

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Speaker 1: they would have been held in really deplorable conditions and

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Speaker 1: their human rights would not have been respected down there.

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Speaker 1: And the court system down there is also completely corrupt.

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Speaker 1: So a quick search could show you that they're they

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Speaker 1: pack something like seventy six guys into like a tiny cell.

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Speaker 1: When you're in the prison in Haiti. Yeah, they'll just

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Speaker 1: put you into a cage like you're you're an animal

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Speaker 1: or something. It's it's horrendous. There's YouTube videos out there,

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Speaker 1: so we'll see, um what happens from here. That apparently

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Speaker 1: these guys were arrested as they got off the plane

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Speaker 1: or as the plane arrived in Miami. And again we

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Speaker 1: don't know what the charges were. UM. I guess the

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Speaker 1: FBI is going to do their own investigation on it,

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Speaker 1: and we'll see where that goes. Yeah. So it's been

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Speaker 1: an interesting couple of days. UM, and I'm glad that

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Speaker 1: we went you went in depth really on this because

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Speaker 1: I can tell you just posting about this on Instagram, uh,

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Speaker 1: and looking at the comments on your article a news

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00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 1: rep there's a lot of conspiracy out there, but one

377
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: of which I saw was several people saying that it

378
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: sounded like these guys were going to rob the National

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Speaker 1: Bank of Haiti, you know, and that you know, No,

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00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: it's nonsense, and you know you're not doing these guys

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00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: any favors either by spreading conspiracy theories. UM. You know,

382
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: you say that stuff enough times, and well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess we shouldn't underestimate the power of social media

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Speaker 1: here in a You say that stuff over and over again,

385
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: and some people take it to be the truth. UM.

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Speaker 1: I even get a little nervous sometimes because people comment

387
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Speaker 1: on on photos of me that are floating around they say, oh,

388
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: he's in the CIA, CIA a paramilitary this and that,

389
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: and it's like, no, dude, I have never been in

390
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: the CIA. And when you go around saying stuff like that,

391
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: like if I get detained in a country five years

392
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Speaker 1: from now and you google my name and the first

393
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: thing that pops up is Jack Murphy, c I A.

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Speaker 1: It's like, that's not good for me. Um. And you know,

395
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Speaker 1: so I mean saying, spreading those conspiracy theories about um

396
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Speaker 1: Osman and McKinley and these guys, like, that's not good

397
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: for them and um and and it's not right to

398
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,719
Speaker 1: do that to them either. UM. I know, people gossip,

399
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: and Chris OsmAnd gossips too. You know, he is guilty

400
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Speaker 1: of it. UM. But I don't know. I think we

401
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: should try to endeavor to do a little bit better

402
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: than that. So then a lot of the other comments

403
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: that I got were from people saying, you know, sarcastically,

404
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: I wonder why soft Prep Radio or news rep is

405
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: covering this. Maybe it has a little something to do

406
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Speaker 1: with Chris Osmond. And I mean I tried to explain

407
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Speaker 1: to these people, we covered what was going on with

408
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Speaker 1: Dale Comstock, which is somewhat similar situation, and we have

409
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: a very friendly connection with Dale comstock. There's no hostility

410
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: between us and Dale, but we covered it. We covered

411
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: it objectively, and we covered the Dapple contract. Would be

412
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: covering this whether it was Chris Osmond or not. Like

413
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: it just so happens that Chris Osmond has honestly talked

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Speaker 1: a lot of shit about our Skino and then in

415
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: in turn really bad mouthed all of us at the company.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, put up stickers bashing the company,

417
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: um and saying negative stuff about all of us, a

418
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that was proven not to be true. Uh,

419
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Speaker 1: if you listen to this podcast, you know, anytime brand

420
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: that ever gets into that type of thing, I've never

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Speaker 1: really gotten into it because I don't I don't know

422
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: the guy, but I mean I do think it's just

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna, you know, have an Instagram devoted to

424
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: bad mouthing, someone better have pretty squeak and queen reputation

425
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: because now when you google Chris Osmond, this will be

426
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Speaker 1: the first thing that comes up. Or at least have

427
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: your facts straight, I mean, if nothing else. Um, I

428
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: mean personally, I've never addressed Osmond before, and I've never

429
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: addressed any of this gossip because to me, it's about

430
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: as interesting as watching a private to push ups. It's like,

431
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: this is like this is thirteen year old ship, Like

432
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: what what is this? Um? I never have either, I've

433
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: I've been in the room, you know. You know, like

434
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: if people listen to podcasts where Brandon has talked about it,

435
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: but you really can't find clips of me ever addressing this. Uh,

436
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: the only time Chris Osmond ever made contact with me

437
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: is I remember on Twitter, you know, and if you're

438
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: listening to this at some point when you could listen

439
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: to it, but you know, and and asked me why

440
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: I don't have him on the podcast, and I had

441
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: to be like, you know, dude, I respect your service,

442
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: but it's not not my podcast. This this podcast sole

443
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: platform is owned by Brandon Webb. And if he's not

444
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: interesting having you on, and then I'll put this out

445
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: there right now. If Chris and or McKinley and or

446
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: Croaker want to come on this podcast to discuss what

447
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: happened in Haiti, I would be more than happy to

448
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: extend the platform for that and then let them tell

449
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: their side of the story. UM. I'm not interested in

450
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: smearing any of these guys. UM, I just am interested

451
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: in in telling the facts, and I report on special

452
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: operations news. I report on you know, private military contractors

453
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: quote unquote mercenaries all over the world all the time.

454
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: I've been doing this for years, and this story I

455
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: would be definitely reporting on, uh, you know, a bunch

456
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: of white guys, white Americans or it could be black Americans.

457
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, yeah, but what you're saying is true

458
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: because they they stand out in this country. I mean,

459
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of a bunch of white cats from the

460
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: United States mentioned like big tat it up dude, to

461
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: fit the stereotype of what a US contractor looks. Yeah,

462
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: I mean I would be reporting on this story regardless. Um.

463
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: But I don't have any personal animosity towards Osman, I mean,

464
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: or or McKinley. I wish, yeah, I wish Osman would

465
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: kind of like be more factual in some of his accusations.

466
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: And I'd appreciate it if he would not discuss my

467
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: personal life, um, you know, publicly on social media like that.

468
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: But if that's what he wants to do, he can

469
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: do that. I mean, so be it. I guess, um

470
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: life goes on, Um, but I'm not gonna go out

471
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: there and make up stories about the guy. And that's

472
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: why I did his best. I could, you know, report

473
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 1: this in an unbiased way and make this disclosure that

474
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 1: he has some some beef with Brandon and with this company. Yeah,

475
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: but this is just something that needed to be addressed.

476
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: And I've never addressed the guy when you know he's

477
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: gone on other podcasts with people who are hostile towards

478
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: us for other reasons that you know, I've chosen and

479
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: you have to to not really get into There's been

480
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: so many lives spread about the company, about the CEO,

481
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: and like a lot of the stuff that's been that's

482
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: been spread has been proven to be false. I mean,

483
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: I was told like that this company wasn't going to exist,

484
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: but by by by last month, we weren't going to exist.

485
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: It's uh, I don't know, I really don't. It's like

486
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: kind of like crazy ex girlfriends stuff. It's hard. It's

487
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: hard for me to ye and I agree that stuff

488
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: is insignificant, and that's why we don't get into it.

489
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: This is very significant and it and it is a

490
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: new story and I don't think any of you could

491
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: read this story and deny that this is the type

492
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: of thing that we cover, and that's in our real

493
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: conspiracy that we're covering this just because it involves a

494
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: guy who's been hostile towards it. That's true. And again,

495
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: if those guys want to come on this podcast and

496
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,479
Speaker 1: talk about what really happened in hate and tell their

497
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: side of it, I'd be happy to do that. I'm

498
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: just not going to get into like the gossip and

499
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: you know, funk this guy like come on man, like

500
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a thirty five year old man. I don't

501
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: have time for that. Yeah, it would probably make for

502
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: an interesting show too, to be honest, because when we

503
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: had Dale comstock on, it was good to at least

504
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: go in depth. Yeah, yeah, it was. And uh, you know,

505
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: people could draw their own conclusions. I think there's people

506
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: who listen to that podcast too who feels that Dale

507
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: really do. They feel Dale really fucked up by doing

508
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: what he did. There's probably other guys who took Dale's side,

509
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: and and you know, Dale's basically saying, I had this

510
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: one guy have not opened his mouth, you would have

511
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: never even heard about that. And again, I mean it

512
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: gets into the gray areas of contracting from from Dale's perspective,

513
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: they were working for the Emirati military. It seems seems legit, right,

514
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: But and as he said, he's like, we're taking out terrorists,

515
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: we're taking out bad guys. We're doing the same thing

516
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: the United States government does. But you're not a soldier anymore.

517
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: You're not and you're not in the military. You're not

518
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: you're not acting under titled end of the US Code. UM,

519
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: you're not working under the auspices of the a U

520
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: m F, the Authorization for the Use of Military Force

521
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: that has passed after nine eleven. UM. You are now

522
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: a private citizen, work in private security, and you don't

523
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: have those legal protections. So I definitely encourage all the

524
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: other vets out there to consider some of these nuances

525
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: and some of these gray areas and the legalities. And

526
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,959
Speaker 1: just because the guy you're working for was a colonel

527
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: and x y Z Special Operations Unit doesn't mean that

528
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: what he's telling you to do is legitimate and legal. Yeah,

529
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: unlike them as far as I know. By the way,

530
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it's been probably good three or four months

531
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: since this Dale comp Stock came out, probably three months

532
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: and not I don't nothing has happened. He has been arrested,

533
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: as far as I know, Dale is you know, living

534
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: normal life and and hasn't had any consequences for this

535
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: story that came out. Yeah so far. I mean, we'll

536
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: see what happens with that. Um. I think they'll probably

537
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: be some follow up stories to it eventually. But man,

538
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: that was a hell of an interesting story. Yeah, but

539
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: I with you. I mean I could be wrong here.

540
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: You might know. I would think it'd be a little

541
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: bit late for them to, you know, do something at

542
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: this point. They can, but I mean it's just i'd

543
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: be surprised. I I don't know. I really don't know.

544
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: I mean, investigations can can take a long time, but

545
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: I have no idea. All right, Well, with that, we

546
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: do have a guest this episode, but we definitely had

547
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: to address that. Uh, Mike Lampy, we're gonna get right

548
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: into it. Back on the podcast, Air Force Chief Master

549
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: Sergeant Mike Lampy. You guys last heard Mike on episode three. Uh,

550
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: and we didn't get quite up to when Mike cross

551
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: paths with a previous guest of the podcast and a

552
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: legend in the community, Mike Vining, which was later on

553
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: in his military career. Uh. As we were saying before

554
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: we recorded, we really ended with some of your time

555
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: in Wouse and uh, let's get back into that. I

556
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: know that there's some unanswered questions and go from there,

557
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: just to elaborate a little bit. Mike Lampy was you know,

558
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: on the ground floor in a lot of ways for

559
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: the birth of Air Force Special tactics and also got

560
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: to see the birth of a really modern American special operations.

561
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: So I mean we had Ah, I had a great

562
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: time interviewing you last time, and we got up to

563
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: the point where you were in laos and you said

564
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: that just before the we started recording, you said that

565
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: you had had some inquiries about laos Um and some

566
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: other things you wanted to elaborate on that before before

567
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: we move on to some other topics in your career. Uh,

568
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: that's correct, and uh yeah, a couple of the inquiries

569
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: I got, uh and I think somewhere in the interview,

570
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: you know always uh thought about being a filet or flying.

571
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: So one of the inquiries was did I ever you know,

572
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: learn any flying skills or having an opportunity to fly?

573
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: And the answers yes, And now, of course it wasn't

574
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 1: my job, but the ravens Uh you know, Uh, basically

575
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: we're kind of accommodating in the sense that when we

576
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: weren't staying up country based on you know, the ambassador's guidance. Uh,

577
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: you know, you would jump on any plane going back

578
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: down to Benson to spend the night, and then you

579
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: go back through the same event, uh, you know, getting

580
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: back up there, and you know there wasn't necessary what

581
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: I call passenger terminal or scheduled flights. You pretty much

582
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: figured out which aircraft, uh going from Bention up to

583
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: two alternate was going there being a uh you know,

584
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: a twin otter, C one three, a porter. That's how

585
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: you got to work. And then the same event, you know,

586
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: or the same cycle would take place when you're heading

587
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: back if you didn't spend the night, spend time up there.

588
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 1: And so occasionally, uh we got to jump a ride

589
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 1: with you know the Ravens, you know the back seater

590
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: if they didn't have their back seater. Uh, we had

591
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: a chance to fly back from launch in uh intervention,

592
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: and of course during that flight, Uh, they basically myself

593
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: and Charlie and a couple of the other folks that

594
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: you know transit back and forth. Uh you know, they

595
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: gave basic lessons on flying to no One, and of

596
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: course I was fortunate enough. And and when I first

597
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: got up there, uh and doing the flight falling, you know,

598
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: a couple of the ravensh went to Jerry Ryan and

599
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: Charlie Day and said, hey, we'd like to take Mike

600
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: up on a flight to kind of see, you know,

601
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: what we're doing, which would help him and his flight

602
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: falling skills because you know, and so I got to

603
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: fly a couple of mission. Again, please understand, it wasn't

604
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: some authorized, it wasn't something. Yeah, it just happened. So

605
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to fly a couple missions with

606
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: the raven Facts. But it really helped me number one,

607
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: and uh, some of the things I was doing referenced

608
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: flight falling, coordinate with the A B Triple C reference fighters,

609
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: and uh watching the twenty eight out of launching, and

610
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: it definitely gave me a perspective of what the raven

611
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: Fact was seeing and what she was doing, uh, which

612
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: helped me, uh, you know later on in my career,

613
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: especially when I came back to Thailand a Dent one

614
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: fifty six sow and we were running training for the

615
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 1: Cambodians and Ford air guide. So it gave me that perspective, uh,

616
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: from from a raven fact looking you know, you know,

617
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 1: from altitude. And then Jerry Ryan, the AOC commander, also

618
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: took me out a couple of times. Again, I gotta understand,

619
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: this is not authorized, what's supposed to be doing this.

620
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: But he went out and flew a few you know,

621
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: straightening runs and dropping bombs on targets. And so then

622
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: you've got I got a perspective of what it feels

623
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: like to be in the back of the t and uh,

624
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: him rolling in scraping troops and contact or dropping bombs.

625
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: So when I got into Thailand and with teaching Ford

626
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: air guide procedures, uh, it was really enhanced my skill

627
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: sets of what we were teaching then to the Cambodians

628
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: of distance, direction, from whereas what and kicking out what

629
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: a pilot could see from the the air easily and

630
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: then basically talking the pilot down to another object or

631
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: another train feature and eventually to where the chart was.

632
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: So you were you were refining the the what became

633
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: the combat controller mission. If I'm hearing this correct, well,

634
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's basically enhanced my understanding of uh, you know,

635
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: what's called the j back today, but Ford air guide

636
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: back down for their guide being somebody working from the

637
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: ground but having the opportunity to work from the ground

638
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: but also be in the air. Again, not my mission,

639
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: not was what I was there. It's just experience. And

640
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: then of course getting the fly occasionally with the Ravens

641
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: and basically you know, they pretty much say hey, you

642
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: got it, like or Charlie or you know whoever, fly

643
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: in the backseat and let us kind of fly the

644
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: one back intervention and put it in the pattern, you know,

645
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: report and downwhen and then turned the air craft over

646
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: to them, so and then and then when we when

647
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 1: I got into Thailand, the raven some of the Ravens

648
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: were there as instructors to train the Cambodians as well

649
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: as UH a lot of the pilots for training the Cambodians. Again,

650
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: it really added to my my tool bag when you

651
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: talk about UH being the guy in the ground supporting

652
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: an s fo D or seal platoon or a unilateral

653
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: mission where you're putting in air strikes or talking of

654
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: fighters or gunships. Mike, forgive my forgive my memory. But

655
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: the mission in um in Thailand was that called the

656
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 1: FET mission. Yeah, I would call it a FIT mission. No, no, no,

657
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: it was I'm just trying to think the mission to

658
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: train the Cambos. It was f ET. I may be

659
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: wrong though, Yeah. Well the term I knew it from

660
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: is like I think it was the SCOOT program. Yeah, uh,

661
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: support Cambodia out of Thailand. Now I'm sure there was

662
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: other names to that, but you know, get one fifty

663
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: six out, you know, I think you know, I've got

664
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: over to Thailand and seventy three and think by seventy

665
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: four Debt In fifty six Sal became USA US Mactie

666
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: Detachment to Oudin, and that's when they brought tiny adder Holt,

667
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: Colonel adder Holt. But I think if I recall correctly,

668
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: they promoted the one star, brought him back and put

669
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: him in charge adjust mag with the sole purpose of

670
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: training up to Cambodian forces on the air side. And

671
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: I think I discussed that a little bit that we

672
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 1: in Thailand. Combat Tool was responsible for training the Ford

673
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: Air Guides, um, you know Cambodian air guides at the

674
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: Ford Air Guide School that we had that had been

675
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: put together, uh in the late sixties, early sixth at

676
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: late sixties and seventies and U as well as you know,

677
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: we were involved in training the air drop crews for

678
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: thee Ease and you have to tight and they are

679
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: once and the maintenance or the maintainer. So it was

680
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 1: a gro Bus uh Field training detachment per se to

681
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: train the Cambodian Air Force and had tremendous expertise and

682
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: professionals from all all came os is or a F

683
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: s C that you know worked at that detached and

684
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: U and I guess to break off from that m

685
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: unless you have any other questions on that. No. Actually, Mike,

686
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: what I was hoping to UM discuss a little bit

687
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: was the was how you got brought into brand X

688
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: and UM just to set the stage a little bit

689
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: for the listeners. In nine, the US Embassy in Iran

690
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: was captured by quote unquote Iranian students who overran the

691
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: premissis and took everyone hostage. And now this became a

692
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 1: big debacle for our government as far as how we

693
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: were going to rescue our people and get them out

694
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: of there. And you know, we've talked about this incident

695
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 1: at length, I think before with people like Mike Vining

696
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: who were involved in the rescue effort UM. But you

697
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: were you were part of UH. You were part of

698
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: that endeavor, but definitely came at it from a different

699
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: perspective than I think any of the previous interviews we've done. Yeah. Yeah,

700
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: brand X was kind of a name that one of

701
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: the guys that comeback Controllers came up with I think

702
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: was Peter d Holt came up with that because you know,

703
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: brand X started out I guess if I recall, is

704
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: called Project Recognition out of Mass Headquarters and basically a

705
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: gentleman's Major John's Parney or Captain John Carney the time,

706
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: was working at twenty first Air Force and he was

707
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: given the task to bring select combat trollers together from

708
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: different teams state side to basically support UM. And I

709
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 1: want to say and that, you know, UH was called

710
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,240
Speaker 1: Blue Light, which was a precursor I had to Delta

711
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: and and you know a lot of interaction with the

712
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: Range of Battalion, which at that time I think was

713
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: second Range of Battality. The Lieutenant Colonel Wayne Downing was

714
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: the commander at that time. And during this this process,

715
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: I was still in the Philippines because I was transferred.

716
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: You know, when everything, you know, when what the hell

717
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: in a handbasket in Laos, Cambodian and Vietnam. Vietnam. Yeah,

718
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: transferred to UM the Philippines. They shut down our detachment

719
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 1: or our team probably within thirty days. I mean, so

720
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: everything happened to April May time framem and I think

721
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: I signed into the Philippines at the end of May

722
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 1: and nineteen seventy five. Well, during that tour duty. When

723
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: I was there, UM this project recognition, but we'll call

724
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: it Brand X UH Coach Carney UH wanted his people

725
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: to be dual qualified Halo and scuba, and I just

726
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: happened to be in charge of the scuba locker in

727
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: the Philippines. Now, I basically came over state size to

728
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: be an ant junk scuba instructor. Coach Carney and many

729
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: of the other Brand X personnel and some which eventually

730
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: showed up in Debt One, Makos half your Desert one

731
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: were the students. And that's the first time I had

732
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: met Ontarni or coach Party who was hit. And so

733
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: when we graduation get together from Scuba school, he mentioned

734
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: if I had an interest of you know, maybe coming

735
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: part of this group, which he said, I really can't

736
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: tell you much about And I kind of told him,

737
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: I said, well, you know, you know, sir, yeah it

738
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: interests me, but I've got orders to the seventh STSTS

739
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: in mind mind Germany, you know, consecutive overseas tour, and

740
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: I'm leaving. So maybe when I'm done with that tour,

741
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: i'd be happy to you know, entertain that. Well. Well

742
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: and behold, you know, coach party uh was able to

743
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: change my orders and so instead of going to Germany, uh,

744
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: you know, I was reassigned to Charleston Air Force Base.

745
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 1: And understanding what brand X was, it was a pickup team.

746
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: So every time went out on one of these degrees

747
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: with whoever you be at the Blue Light Force or

748
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: be at the Rangers, or a combination of both, he

749
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: would select individuals from each of the different teams to

750
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: be at the mccare team, Norton Team, Charleston Team, Little

751
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,479
Speaker 1: Rock Team, which is the way combat control was task

752
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: organized that time, and they would have to bring their

753
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: equipment and then they meet at a certain location be

754
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: at Bragg or wherever, and they basically planned and interface

755
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: with their army counterparts go execute the mission, and then

756
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: they would go bring their take their equipment and go

757
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: back home to their base. And so Coach Karney was

758
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: able eventually to convince the powers to be at Headquarters

759
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: mac Uh and other Air Force fans that he needed

760
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: to have all the Brand X personnel that he wanted

761
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: he wanted to select at one base. And so I

762
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: ended up being one of those individuals, along with John Corne,

763
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: Mitch Bryan, Dick West and others. And the interesting thing

764
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: is is we all served in Southeast Asia to get

765
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, we were in Thailand together and Philippines together,

766
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 1: and some of us had worked in and out allows

767
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: to get so you know, we you know, we knew

768
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: each other's moves on the on the chessboard for lack

769
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: of term. And so when I got reassigned for the Philippines, uh,

770
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: of course I did to make my wife happy because

771
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: my wife's family primarily were was in France, and so

772
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: when I told her we're not going to Germany, uh,

773
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: that would over like the turn the punch bowl. But

774
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: I showed up I think the last week of October

775
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: um of seventy seventy nine. And if i'm you know,

776
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: my memory served me correctly or just finishing up the

777
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: validation the final validation exercise, I think at lauren Burn

778
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: Maxim there in North Carolina with Delta certification, as the

779
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: us IS counters, Yes, as I recall from Colonel Beckwith's book,

780
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: he talks about how they finished the certification and you

781
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 1: know he went to sleep just exhausted from the whole process.

782
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: Is because the squadron they had trained up had to

783
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: conduct a number of hostage simulated hostage rescue missions. And

784
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 1: he goes to sleep exhausted. They wake him up in

785
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 1: the morning because the incident in Iran had just happened,

786
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: like the day after unit was validated. Yeah, I think

787
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: I want to say the unit that final validation was

788
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: like the third of November or second November or stuff

789
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, it all was together and then yeah,

790
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: you're right, and the hosts are taking a four November

791
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: and then you know, off to the races reference trying

792
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: to figure out, um, you know, how how are you

793
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: going to go about rescuing you know, fifty three Americans

794
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: halfway around the world in the middle of the capital

795
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: of Iran. Yeah, could you could you talk about that

796
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,919
Speaker 1: from from your perspective and you know what you saw,

797
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: what you observed as far as the planning and training

798
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: process um for all that began. I can speak to

799
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: my portion now of course the time. You know, I

800
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: think I was the six promotable East seven at the time,

801
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: so you know, I was down at what I called

802
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: the dirty boot level. Uh, and it's a good place

803
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: to be. And you know my involvement, you know, of course,

804
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,760
Speaker 1: there was only ended up being six of us, seven

805
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: of us that really engaged in the planning and rehearsal

806
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: for for Iran and went into Iran on the first

807
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: aircraft and the bulk of my time as well as

808
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: my other fellow combat controllers. Uh. We were working with

809
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: the Ranger Company, Charlie Company, which was commanded by Dave

810
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: Grange at that time, and I think SRM. Wilford was

811
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 1: the battalion commander, and of course we did a lot

812
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 1: of work with them, primarily what I called the second

813
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: Night rehearsal referenced the airfield that was gonna be secured

814
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: to receive the one on Um to translode the Delta

815
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:15,240
Speaker 1: personnel and the hostages onto there after they were pulled

816
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: out of the embassy and the other location. And so

817
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: our involvement, my involvement primarily revolved around that. You know,

818
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: we get some work on a couple of desert type

819
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: strips out where was that out one of the lake

820
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: beds by Edwards Air Force Base. Also we were involved

821
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: in initially one of the scenarios was dropping blivets uh

822
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 1: in to refuel. So we ended up going through those scenarios,

823
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, recovering the blivets and trying to set up

824
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 1: revealing points and working with the c Stallion cruise, uh,

825
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: the Navy cruise as well as uh. There was a

826
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: couple other scenarios that we ended up jumping in with

827
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: out there in uh uh it slips my mind, but

828
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: it was out there in the desert, a human growing

829
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: grounds with Delta, and we were rehearsing a what I

830
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:41,399
Speaker 1: call across country movement uh Delta with mules, motorcycles, those

831
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,919
Speaker 1: type of things. That again, that was just another snareup now,

832
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: you know, to my knowledge, you know, Delta was you know,

833
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, focused pretty much strictly on taking down the

834
00:52:55,120 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: two targets and and to my knowledge, basically at that

835
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: down you know, to a science um and we're well

836
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: prepared I think to execute that mission. Um if we

837
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,959
Speaker 1: could get them into the capital city, which I don't

838
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: think the Iranians had anticipated any of us ever or

839
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 1: the Americans trying to excuse me, try to do that.

840
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: And then also we worked with the engineers, the whiz

841
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: kids out from the Agency off at a place you

842
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 1: know up in d C that actually built the remote

843
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: control lights. You know, they were regularly what I call

844
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: beam baged lights that we used in the early sixties

845
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: seventies to mark l zs, but they turned them in

846
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: to remote control lights with pop up antenna's and then

847
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 1: they had a thing that fit into the one thirty

848
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,320
Speaker 1: up in the coppic you plug in that could activate

849
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: the lights about I think was about ten miles out.

850
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: So we ran a lot of different tests. This is

851
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: to basically run a clandestine airfield, if I understand right,

852
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: that's correct. Those those lights that were developed and we

853
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: tested I think around down and Army Hunter Army Airfield

854
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 1: eventually were the ones that John Carney UH took in

855
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 1: UH to the desert. The desert one, I think it

856
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 1: was about thirty plus stage prior to actually US launching,

857
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: and the Agency flew him in on a twin orter

858
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: with many bikes and he went in and took soil

859
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 1: samples and planet the remote control lights um and what

860
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: I you know, and again my direct and maybe off

861
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: I called like the southern LZ. And initially when we

862
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: were rehearsing, you know, uh, we we were kind of

863
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: focused on one l Z in the desk, you know,

864
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: the one that the coach had surveyed, you know, and

865
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 1: done soil samples on. And as things evolved, and I

866
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 1: think it was again I may be getting ahead of

867
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: myself on this, but I think, you know, for me,

868
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 1: and I think most of the other six comeback controllers,

869
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:43,879
Speaker 1: wasn't until we had moved from Charleston through my mind,

870
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: and I think in the Wadi Kemi, which was our

871
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: initial drop off point in uh Egypt, and then Olman

872
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: if I remember, right, Yeah, well I was Egypt where

873
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: we kind of found out that it well we're gonna

874
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 1: have you, we're gonna do to dual runways in the

875
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: desert and yeah, and and to to my knowledge at least,

876
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: I was never on any rehearsal that we you know,

877
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: prior to that that we had done dual runways on

878
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: dirt or in the desert and done the refueling. But

879
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: that's where we basically found out and myself and John

880
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 1: Corne and I think Dick West and Bud Consalis, you know,

881
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: all put our heads together because the three of us

882
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: pretty much had the responsibility once we landed in the desert,

883
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 1: one into the original LC, the remote control lights, and

884
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: we had the responsibility of kind of going across this

885
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 1: so called road that ran through the the lake, that

886
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: and the stabolishing the second LZ and second box and

887
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: one and that became quite challenging as the mission unfolded

888
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: based on the timeline that was given us. You know,

889
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 1: the original timeline was we had an hour from landing,

890
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: you know, two you know, get everything set up, and

891
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: that included the tack in the portable tack an uh,

892
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: you know, established the inverted wife for to receive the helicopters.

893
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 1: And again, you know, we're kind of focused on one

894
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 1: LC now now we're basically transitioning to run parallel desert runways.

895
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 1: I did hand know that. Yeah, yeah, that's yeah that

896
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, you know again, I speak for myself. I

897
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: was never involved in any rehearsal where we were running

898
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: dual runways at night in the desert. Not that we

899
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: didn't do some on single type things, not that we

900
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: didn't do practice refueling back of the one thirty, you know,

901
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: all those things. But you know, people asked, well, did

902
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: you ever do a full dress rehearsal? And my answer

903
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: is no. Now, Delta had, no doubt, ran numerous full

904
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: dress rehearsals on their takedown and and their movement from

905
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: their high site if you know where I think it

906
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: was Dick Meadows, Uh, went in and seat up and

907
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: they were going to be translated by trucks into into

908
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 1: the Capitol, et cetera. So I have no doubt that Delta,

909
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: you know, from A to Z, you know, had that

910
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 1: thing wired and down going. That asked you know, based

911
00:58:54,960 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: on that, but from the air side, Uh, we never

912
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: rehearsed agen Zy Uh. From my perspective, That's what Mike

913
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,439
Speaker 1: Vining said when I asked him, you know, I asked

914
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: him the question. I was like, do you think the

915
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: mission could have been successful? And his answer was, if

916
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: we had gotten to the embassy, there's no question that

917
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: we could have succeeded in our mission. And I agree

918
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: with that percent. And you know, I think people have said,

919
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: you know, people actually more knowledgeable and the complete planning

920
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: processes the long pall and the ten or the weak

921
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: link was always the helicopters. And of course, as you're

922
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 1: probably aware of, you know, we went through to maybe

923
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: three helicopter cruise. Uh. Eventually that was the cruise that

924
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: you know flew the you know, the nine helicopters are launched,

925
00:59:53,320 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: the nine helicopters to go into desert want and and

926
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: so to digress a little bit, you know, so we

927
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 1: you know, we did our planning a lot of team.

928
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: We kind of practiced on the motorcycle that Delta had

929
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: provided us. I think it was a Yamaha to fifty

930
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: to help speed up things. And then we moved into

931
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: Oman massura um and eventually, you know, we ended up

932
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: watching now there as you well know. And when we

933
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: went feet dry, uh. I think shortly after that is

934
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 1: when the lead MC ran into the Haku and of

935
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: course Coach Karney had flown in with the agency guys

936
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 1: and they two had encountered a boot to my knowledge,

937
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: but the guy flying the aircraft think was Jim Ryant.

938
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: You know, set up no problem, you know, climb up,

939
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: get up, I think around fifteen hundred feet you know,

940
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 1: they e g L and you're above that desk cloud

941
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: and so when won the one thirty, you know hit

942
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: that baboo. Of course, you know, it's like some rubbing

943
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 1: sandpaper on the side of the aircraft. And I think

944
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 1: also at that time the HF antenna had broken loose,

945
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: so the load masters had to open the ramp and

946
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: figure out a way to rate and bring that antenna.

947
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: And because it was beaten on the side of the

948
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 1: UH one thirty, so as we so, Coach Farney was

949
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: up to the cockpit with the active with the console

950
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,919
Speaker 1: to activate the boom, and he just kind of sent

951
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: Brentsy was the pilot, said hey, you know, just climb up,

952
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: you know, bub you know that fiftet are a little

953
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: bit buff. And if I recall cor actually the aircrew,

954
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: the one thirty aircrew had been briefed that radar cover

955
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 1: each you know, didn't really start until two thousand feet,

956
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: so anywhere between, you know, ground level enough. I guess

957
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,919
Speaker 1: the two thousand feet that you wouldn't be painted on radar.

958
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: So that's what we did. And then my understanding is

959
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: the radio operator on that aircraft radio backed secure comps

960
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 1: back to the one thirties. Now, if I'm correct, the

961
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: helicopter pilots you know, that launched off the carrier didn't

962
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: get the same type of briefing, so when you kind

963
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 1: of read the different narratives or the stories, they pretty

964
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: much stayed in the hook booth. I think they were

965
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: flying at five ft or or a thousand feet, which

966
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: ended pacted obviously along the way where ended up losing.

967
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 1: I think three of the helicopters of the original nine

968
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: that launched off the carrier. And just to paint the

969
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 1: picture for the listener, um A quick Mike, You guys,

970
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 1: the operators who were going to execute the assault flew

971
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: in on a C one thirty from Oman to Desert

972
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: one inside Iran, but the helicopters that were to ferry

973
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 1: them along the next leg were being flown in from

974
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: off coast off a carrier, if I if I remember correctly.

975
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: And then and then on the way, the helicopters went

976
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 1: through a very vicious sandstorm. So when they arrived at

977
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: Desert one, where the operators were standing by those hell

978
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: like a few of them, as Mike said, um, I

979
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: think a couple of them had to turn around, and

980
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 1: the others were in pretty beat up condition. And then

981
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: as far as the plan was concerned. Now you have

982
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 1: the operators and the helicopters co located that they would

983
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 1: have translated onto the helicopters, flown to desert to a

984
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 1: second staging site, loaded up on trucks, and uh the

985
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 1: next day would have executed the actual embassy takedown. Um,

986
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: if memory serves Mike, I just wanted to throw that

987
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 1: out there. Some people listening, UM are tracking along with

988
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: what you're saying. Yeah, and that's correct. I think the

989
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 1: other point is those those helicopters were used, had been

990
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 1: pre staged on that carrier, you know as we were

991
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 1: running rehearsals, so that the helicopters that they were using

992
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: during all the rehearsals up to that point, uh, when

993
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: we got the execute order state and humor and so

994
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know how the Navy maintained

995
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: those I can't speak to that, but I do understand that,

996
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 1: you know, all those helicopters that they had a very

997
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 1: short amount of time to kind of worked out of

998
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 1: the bugs and you know, take them for a few

999
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 1: test flights. But it wasn't the birds that they had,

1000
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, had tweaked and had flown during all the rehearsals.

1001
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: These are the priests stage telecopters that were sitting below Debt.

1002
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 1: So Mike, can you walk us through then you know

1003
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: from your point of view what happened when you got

1004
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: the desert one. Sure, Now, as we approached as one

1005
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: after we came out of the haboo the sandstorm, um

1006
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: you know, uh, the lights were activated and so as

1007
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 1: we're coming in on approach to the aircraft coming approached,

1008
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 1: there was a vehicle or vehicles that were spotted driving

1009
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 1: down through the l Z and so ended up executing

1010
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 1: a go ramp, which burned up about ten minutes of

1011
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: valuable time from from my perspective of trying to get

1012
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 1: the LZ established both LZ's in order to receive the

1013
01:05:56,040 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 1: remainder of the C one thirties, which also we're functioning

1014
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: as refuelers for the helicopters you know with Blivits on board,

1015
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 1: and so eventually you know, to go around. Didn't have

1016
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 1: any other incident. We landed that was a very firm

1017
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 1: landing to say the least. And and so as the

1018
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 1: opening up the ramp and we're basically offloading, uh, we're

1019
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: greeted by a bus you know that splashing the lights

1020
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't know if he's honking horns,

1021
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 1: but you know, obviously the some of the operators or

1022
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 1: the rangers that were offloading uh shot out a couple

1023
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: of tires and seized the bus. And if my memory

1024
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: surgeon incorrectly, now we have I think forty six or

1025
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: eight iraniums on a bus in the middle of the LZ.

1026
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 1: So that was the first challenge, you know, the first

1027
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 1: allan she obviously if we secured a bus with Iranians,

1028
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 1: and now we've got to forgot who's going to guard

1029
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: the Iranians and get the bus with the couple of

1030
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 1: the tires lat off the main l Z or that

1031
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 1: the southern el Z worked through that. Now the other

1032
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: thing you have to see the haboo. The sandstorm had

1033
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 1: went through the landing site. So instead of just being

1034
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 1: what I considered hard late bed sand, you actually now

1035
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: had what I call a few inches of suspended dust

1036
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 1: or almost like telcoum powder. And so you've got the

1037
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 1: one thirty with the engines running, that's kind of creating

1038
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 1: it's own you know, dust storm. For lack of term

1039
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,800
Speaker 1: uh in there, you know, because they're not shutting anything

1040
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: down and so we move on over to the LZ.

1041
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 1: We're post established and the visible he was pretty much

1042
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: nailed or none because of some of the suspended dust

1043
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: or samp. So we had to go to some old

1044
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 1: techniques or you know, decide where we're going to put

1045
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 1: the first corner light of the box in one and

1046
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 1: then basically take the compass heading and walk off. And

1047
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: then once you couldn't see the guy any further or

1048
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,679
Speaker 1: have a good beat on him, be hold in place

1049
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 1: and then you move up and you know, give him

1050
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 1: the cup of setting. And so that took a while,

1051
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 1: you know, even though it was just four lights. You know,

1052
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 1: we're trying to get everything precise, you know, for the

1053
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: aircraft aircraft. And so we eventually got that established. UH

1054
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 1: and the first month thirty had moved up to its

1055
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 1: parking parking spot at the other end. I called the

1056
01:08:52,320 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 1: southern LZ to get position. Yeah and wait, and then

1057
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 1: we ended up pretty much on time receiving U the

1058
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:10,680
Speaker 1: second aircraft. But during this time frame, UH, one of

1059
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: the ranger blocking teams had deployed down we'll call the

1060
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 1: road up to put up a blocking to ensure no

1061
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 1: traffic or would interfere with the operations and about that

1062
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 1: time they had a fuel truck you know that pretty

1063
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: much ran ran their position, you know, didn't stop and

1064
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: went through. And then I don't recall they I think

1065
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,360
Speaker 1: they used the law and they shot it up, shot

1066
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 1: it with a law which basically now you had a

1067
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 1: fuel foot without covering me and gallons of fuel had

1068
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 1: had exploding out there, you know, uh, semi on the

1069
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 1: approach path of the aircraft coming into the northern LC.

1070
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 1: So you know, so now we've got a bus with

1071
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 1: forty some of Iranians, we got a fuel truck on fire,

1072
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 1: and you know, and we continue to receive the one

1073
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: thirties and position them and the ones that pat livets

1074
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: on it. You know, basically those hoses you know, got

1075
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: pulled out and and and position and we put the

1076
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 1: inverted y in so we could taxi the try to

1077
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:35,720
Speaker 1: taxi the fifty threes up to connect him to the

1078
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 1: livet refueling process. And again I'm sorry by saying and again,

1079
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 1: but you know, eventually we got all to see one

1080
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:53,920
Speaker 1: thirties on the ground and properly position and uh everything

1081
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 1: set up for refueling the helicopters um and each of

1082
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 1: these in thirties were also bringing in camouflage nets and

1083
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:09,600
Speaker 1: other things that the Delpha guys were offloading UH to

1084
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 1: a staging point to be uploaded on the helicopter. So

1085
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 1: everything there, you know, pretty much went as schedule, and

1086
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 1: then we waited and we waited and waited, and eventually

1087
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: the first helicopter UH showed up and landed in the

1088
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:37,639
Speaker 1: y and the real challenges, you know, with fifty threes,

1089
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 1: they taxi kind of like an aircraft, and so if

1090
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:45,879
Speaker 1: you can kind of imagine, now they're kind of pushing

1091
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 1: some of this suspended dust, so we're kind of hopping them,

1092
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: if that makes sense to the pilot's kind of hopping

1093
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 1: up to their refueling point as well as as you're aware,

1094
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, fifty three, you know, especially when they try

1095
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 1: to lift off or move, you know, they got about

1096
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 1: ninety knocks down wash, So you have all these one

1097
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 1: thirties engine running and now the helicopters coming in with

1098
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,560
Speaker 1: their down wash and so what little you know, suspended

1099
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 1: dust or sand is on the boom is all up

1100
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:23,640
Speaker 1: in the air. So it was kind of a challenging

1101
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 1: time from visibility and be able to you know, see

1102
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,519
Speaker 1: even with NVGs the n v gs in some cases,

1103
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 1: you know, the ones we had really were pretty much

1104
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 1: ineffective from our perspectives. We went just the dust goggles, um.

1105
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,679
Speaker 1: And I think it was the six helicopter, the last

1106
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 1: helicopter that finally arrived and when it landed, uh, it's

1107
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 1: pretty much to my knowledge lost hydraulics. In other words,

1108
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 1: they with a hydraulic cleat. And there was a lot

1109
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 1: of scurry and going on and back and forth of

1110
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 1: the CP about this helicopter. And and of course, you know,

1111
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 1: if you're reading Colonel beckwist book and the guest Strike,

1112
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 1: the minimum helicopters they could basically go to the next site.

1113
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: The high site was six, so that's all we had

1114
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 1: on the ground and the sixth one was not up.

1115
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 1: And in this process then that's when the decision was

1116
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: is to you know, tack up you know, everything back

1117
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 1: on the C one thirties and launch and you know,

1118
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 1: I would assume come back another day. And in that process,

1119
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,560
Speaker 1: one of the helicopters on the what I called the

1120
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 1: Northern LC received you know, a TC guidance to pick

1121
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:02,720
Speaker 1: up and you know, I think execute, I want to say,

1122
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 1: execute a turn to go around and reconnect to another

1123
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 1: one thirty fuel because one he was connected to that

1124
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: one that UM Lewis was flying. UH could hand the more,

1125
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: AD asked the punk and so this guy needed more

1126
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 1: more fuel to make the trip back to the carrier.

1127
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 1: And you know when he lifted up UM and again,

1128
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 1: you know, there was a cloud of dust. From my perspective,

1129
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:42,879
Speaker 1: I could barely see what was going on in my position.

1130
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 1: You know, eventually he ended up coming down and crashing

1131
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:55,800
Speaker 1: into UH thats one and pretty much, you know, we

1132
01:14:55,960 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 1: had another huge fireball. UM. That aircraft also had been

1133
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 1: already loaded with Delta soldiers on board, and I think

1134
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 1: they had some fifty soldiers on there if I recall correctly.

1135
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 1: And you know, it's just the professionalism and the training,

1136
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 1: uh the load masters in the back, but also the

1137
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 1: certain major that took charge in the back because there's

1138
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:29,560
Speaker 1: only one door, I think they could excess because of

1139
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,040
Speaker 1: the fire, and they were able to get all those

1140
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 1: UH soldiers off that burning aircraft. And I think one

1141
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 1: of them went back and pulled the radio operator who

1142
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 1: was severely burned because the heelicopter had come down on

1143
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:50,560
Speaker 1: the front part of conject or the firewall. UH. You

1144
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 1: know where the radio operator sat. And and now now

1145
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 1: we're dealing with minus one Bernie, uh minus another second helicopter,

1146
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 1: and now we're trying to figure out and of course

1147
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people engaged in this um trying

1148
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,200
Speaker 1: to figure out how you upload all the built the

1149
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:19,559
Speaker 1: soldiers who were brought in by all to see one thirties,

1150
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:22,679
Speaker 1: and now the helicopter crews because the decision was made

1151
01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:29,000
Speaker 1: that to reposition the helicopters or just leave the helicopters

1152
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 1: in place and just get the personnel out. So it

1153
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:37,599
Speaker 1: was it was an interesting time trying to figure out,

1154
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 1: you know I called daco procedures, trying to account for people.

1155
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 1: Once you got everybody in the midst of you still

1156
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: got the fuel truck burning, you still got the bus

1157
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 1: with the Irans, and now you've got a sea stallion

1158
01:16:52,720 --> 01:17:00,240
Speaker 1: and one thirty burning h and you're down uh one

1159
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: thirty actually to one thirties because one of the one

1160
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:08,560
Speaker 1: thirties that came in and dropped off supplies and Delta soldiers.

1161
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:12,360
Speaker 1: We launched back out early because it was going to

1162
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 1: be one of the lead aircraft or one of the

1163
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:21,440
Speaker 1: main aircraft involved in night to going into that airfield

1164
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 1: where the one and the fifty threes would link up.

1165
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 1: And so we're down to see one thirties and we're

1166
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 1: down all the helicopters and of course obviously lost a

1167
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, find you know, Americans, a adults in the

1168
01:17:41,200 --> 01:17:45,639
Speaker 1: sacrifice that night, but you know, trying to figure out

1169
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:48,600
Speaker 1: how do we get these people because the plan was

1170
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 1: never to leave desert one fully loaded, you know, so

1171
01:17:56,760 --> 01:18:01,480
Speaker 1: so now you know, pretty much I think on each aircraft,

1172
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 1: you know, pretty much taking everything off the aircraft that

1173
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:10,480
Speaker 1: wasn't tied down. In fact, you know, we had uploaded

1174
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 1: the gun jeeps that the Rangers used, the motorcycle that

1175
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:18,800
Speaker 1: that we used off and on you know, other things,

1176
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:22,600
Speaker 1: and that pretty much was coming off to reduce the

1177
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:28,600
Speaker 1: weight to take on the personnel and their equipment. So

1178
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 1: anything that for lack of term, wasn't missing a sentil

1179
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:39,280
Speaker 1: was thrown into the desert, offloaded by the by the soldiers,

1180
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:48,240
Speaker 1: by the aircrew, by cct UH and eventually, UH we

1181
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:52,320
Speaker 1: were able to start the movement and do everything we

1182
01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: could to account for the personnel on the ground through

1183
01:18:56,720 --> 01:19:00,439
Speaker 1: pretty much not enter team communications, but going from aircraft

1184
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 1: aircraft trying to look for the troops are major or

1185
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:09,680
Speaker 1: the uh the troop commander, trying to make sure that

1186
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:14,320
Speaker 1: we didn't leave anybody behind. Uh. Also, we launched down

1187
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 1: to pick up the agency lights as I call them

1188
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 1: them root control lights, because they definitely didn't want those

1189
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 1: left in So we got those and we replaced them

1190
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:28,880
Speaker 1: with kim lights, you know. And then if you kind

1191
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 1: of read in the book The Guts to Try and

1192
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:36,880
Speaker 1: maybe in other books that some of the aircraft released

1193
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:42,200
Speaker 1: one of the aircraft mistaken h those lights that were

1194
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:47,320
Speaker 1: put out there, Uh, they wind up on him or

1195
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:50,920
Speaker 1: took a site and where which I think it was

1196
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 1: the aircraft. I came out on along with many of

1197
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:59,799
Speaker 1: the Delta soldiers and a couple of my fellow conduct

1198
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:04,599
Speaker 1: Owler stick West and Rex Walman, and we pretty much,

1199
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:08,599
Speaker 1: you know, as take off, and you can imagine we're

1200
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:12,759
Speaker 1: moving off damn slow, and that one thirty was franking

1201
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:15,720
Speaker 1: at the engine as hard as you could, and then

1202
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:19,080
Speaker 1: we kind of hit a burn burn, So we were

1203
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:23,600
Speaker 1: up and then we came back down and and continued,

1204
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:27,720
Speaker 1: you know, moving down the thing. But what happened is

1205
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 1: that pilot, if you can kind of vision parallel runways, Uh,

1206
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:35,560
Speaker 1: they got sighted on a different set of lights and

1207
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:38,920
Speaker 1: the box of lights, so it kind of took off

1208
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 1: at an angle, and that's why, you know, jumped off.

1209
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:47,880
Speaker 1: And you know, obviously I have no doubt everybody in

1210
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 1: the aircraft were saying the prayers because I should and

1211
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 1: L was, and you know, as we're getting ready to

1212
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:58,760
Speaker 1: take off and we get this word, hey, don't move.

1213
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:03,280
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if it was grenades or

1214
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:09,240
Speaker 1: if those blasting caps or something explosive, you know, pet

1215
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:13,400
Speaker 1: then yuh couldn't account for so they thought it was

1216
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:16,760
Speaker 1: somewhere on there. The other thing is this is one

1217
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 1: of the aircraft that was a refueler. So we're sitting

1218
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:22,679
Speaker 1: on I think it was a five thousand downs living

1219
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:27,400
Speaker 1: that was partially you know, pretty much done, but you

1220
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:31,719
Speaker 1: can imagine the funel. So you're watching slushing in there,

1221
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:36,920
Speaker 1: and you know, you're basically just trying to you know,

1222
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 1: get a clean breath of air inside that aircraft. So

1223
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 1: we're we're moseying down and you know, again my hat's

1224
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 1: off to Obviously one thirty Cruise held an airmanship uh

1225
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 1: performance that night in the desert, and finally you could

1226
01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 1: you could basically just feel the pilot and the co pile,

1227
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:05,880
Speaker 1: no doubt, pulling back on the yolk, and the one

1228
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:08,400
Speaker 1: thirty just kind of grown that, you know, you could

1229
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:11,599
Speaker 1: almost you know, it's gonna get up? Is it gonna

1230
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 1: get up? And finally it lifted up, but by our

1231
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 1: climb out was slow because molasses in January. And eventually,

1232
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 1: you know, it got to you know, some altitude and

1233
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:34,120
Speaker 1: then they popped the emergency hatches up above to try

1234
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:37,400
Speaker 1: to get some air of circulating in there because of

1235
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:43,440
Speaker 1: the fumes from that, and we got back to Massura. Eventually.

1236
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:49,760
Speaker 1: Couldn't be happier camper, And I think that goes for everybody, um.

1237
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:54,360
Speaker 1: And then really the accounting for all personnel started taking place,

1238
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:58,719
Speaker 1: count heads figuring out you know, if anything was anybody

1239
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 1: was left behind other than the ones we couldn't recover

1240
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:08,280
Speaker 1: from the accident. And when the one ones came in

1241
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:13,920
Speaker 1: and woiced up the delta guys and they launched back

1242
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:18,040
Speaker 1: the brag and then for me and the other combat

1243
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:22,560
Speaker 1: goals another personnel, I think it was another day or

1244
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:26,439
Speaker 1: another day, I think, you know, I mean, just you know,

1245
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:30,240
Speaker 1: it's just all kinds of ones together. Now before you know,

1246
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 1: we end up getting an aircraft to go home. So

1247
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:38,920
Speaker 1: so that's uh, that's kind of a short version of

1248
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:43,559
Speaker 1: my experience. It sounds sounds hair raising. Mike, I was wondering,

1249
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:45,040
Speaker 1: I know, we have to let you go in a

1250
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 1: few minutes. But um, were you then involved in the

1251
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:51,920
Speaker 1: second endeavor? I mean I think it was called snowbird,

1252
01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 1: um to potentially go back and take another shot at

1253
01:23:56,240 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 1: this operation. Yeah, you know, the code game I was

1254
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:07,360
Speaker 1: was honey badger. Honey badger, right, honey badger. Yeah. And

1255
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:13,040
Speaker 1: you know, shortly after we got back to you know, uh,

1256
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,920
Speaker 1: you know, Charleston uh and Coach Karney got a call

1257
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 1: and he jumped on airplane and they went up to

1258
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:26,679
Speaker 1: one of the agency's locations along with the Delta guys

1259
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:31,000
Speaker 1: to meet President Carter Um. But as soon as he

1260
01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 1: came back from that event, uh, we launched, you know,

1261
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:40,919
Speaker 1: we started the planning for the second uh second attempt,

1262
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:45,280
Speaker 1: and we pretty much went out the White Sands, New Mexico.

1263
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 1: That's pretty much where you know, I spent most of

1264
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:55,640
Speaker 1: my time there with the Rangers Charlie Company again and

1265
01:24:56,040 --> 01:25:00,439
Speaker 1: obviously we're doing all kinds of different rehearsals and you know,

1266
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:04,839
Speaker 1: you know, primarily revolved around you know, the airfield seizure

1267
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:10,880
Speaker 1: position processes, you know, dropping jeeps, dropping bikes. Uh, you

1268
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 1: know all that. So yes, and then eventually, as you

1269
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:18,640
Speaker 1: know in history says that they were released the hostages.

1270
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 1: And of course all this time that we're doing the

1271
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:26,639
Speaker 1: train up for the second attempt, of course they're looking

1272
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,920
Speaker 1: at you landing and see one thirty, you know, with

1273
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 1: rockets into the I think the soccer field or some area.

1274
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: There was one of the options, and many options. I'm

1275
01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 1: not aware of that that was one of them. And

1276
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 1: I guess you know what, I can close out on

1277
01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:51,600
Speaker 1: desk one and you know we can continue on the

1278
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 1: Grenada and Panama at another time. Is fortunate enough? And

1279
01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:01,720
Speaker 1: I say this, you know, chat, I think we had

1280
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:08,639
Speaker 1: the right leadership uh uh up at the Joint Staff,

1281
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,639
Speaker 1: but you know in Congress uh and you go back

1282
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:16,680
Speaker 1: to history. The Hallway Commission was formed to look at

1283
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:20,879
Speaker 1: what took place, uh and why we failed to rescue

1284
01:26:21,040 --> 01:26:27,000
Speaker 1: the hospitals. And I would tell anybody that that was that.

1285
01:26:28,160 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 1: I can't think of a more difficult commissions you can

1286
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 1: hand um any military outset. And I think the the

1287
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:40,320
Speaker 1: other thing you have to take an account. You know,

1288
01:26:40,439 --> 01:26:45,679
Speaker 1: we we again, you know, we hadn't sprained. We were

1289
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:49,840
Speaker 1: a what do you call it, trying tune joint force

1290
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 1: at that time, you know, everybody came together and it

1291
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:57,960
Speaker 1: was doing that part. But today, if you look at

1292
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 1: how they're integrated, how they train together, and how they execute,

1293
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:07,040
Speaker 1: you know they're fine tune. They know each other inside.

1294
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 1: Now they know that units strengths and weaknesses. But the

1295
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:14,160
Speaker 1: fact of my point in the Hallway Commission, obviously Hallway

1296
01:27:14,200 --> 01:27:18,840
Speaker 1: Commission brought about the formation of Jason which was a

1297
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 1: great move. And so yeah, I think you got to

1298
01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:29,160
Speaker 1: thank guys like Senator Cohen, Senator None Goldwater, Congressman Daniels

1299
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 1: um Teddor that happened the foresight, the vision that we

1300
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:40,400
Speaker 1: really need to build a joint command and put these

1301
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:46,040
Speaker 1: forces under one command and have them work and train,

1302
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 1: sleep with whatever you want to call it, together to

1303
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 1: fine tune that joint capability, because nobody's going to go

1304
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:57,600
Speaker 1: to war by themselves. It's always a joint war. And

1305
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:00,679
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of the thing that I think America

1306
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 1: does better than anyone else militarily is working in a

1307
01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:09,720
Speaker 1: joint environment. Uh yeah, we I can't speak for now,

1308
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:12,560
Speaker 1: but what I saw prior to retirement, you know, we

1309
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:17,360
Speaker 1: were basically mastering the art of jointness. And you know,

1310
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:20,560
Speaker 1: early on in my career, you know you hear jointness,

1311
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:24,000
Speaker 1: but all it was was, hey, you know, what do

1312
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 1: I call it? Just to say yeah, we're joining yeah

1313
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 1: now today and even back then, we really grew into

1314
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:37,720
Speaker 1: a joint force and an empy to the forces the

1315
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:43,559
Speaker 1: services around the different countries. And uh, you know again

1316
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:48,040
Speaker 1: I had credit you know, uh our leaders and connors,

1317
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:51,679
Speaker 1: but as well the military to have that force because

1318
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:56,559
Speaker 1: in my humble opinion, if we hadn't done that, if

1319
01:28:56,640 --> 01:29:01,720
Speaker 1: the force had just been disbanded, uh like uh Pisante

1320
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:06,800
Speaker 1: raiders were, then you basically would go back and you know,

1321
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:13,160
Speaker 1: relive history again somewhere down the road. Mike, this has

1322
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:16,120
Speaker 1: been uh incredible. I thanks, thank you so much for

1323
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:20,080
Speaker 1: giving us your perspective on this. Um you know again

1324
01:29:20,439 --> 01:29:22,679
Speaker 1: where we are gonna have to go for around three

1325
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:27,679
Speaker 1: I think because um, you know, as maybe people listening

1326
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:31,040
Speaker 1: don't know, but Mike also jumped into Granada and Panama

1327
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 1: and was involved in other counter terrorism operations throughout the

1328
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:40,960
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties and then when it became a advisor senior

1329
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:44,240
Speaker 1: advisor for SOCOM. So, I mean there's still much to

1330
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:46,920
Speaker 1: talk about, and um, we'll have to figure out you know,

1331
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:49,599
Speaker 1: your schedule, Mike and uh and we'll find a good

1332
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 1: time for you. But we do appreciate you coming on

1333
01:29:52,320 --> 01:29:54,720
Speaker 1: and spending you know, another good hour with us to

1334
01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:59,200
Speaker 1: talk about Desert one. Well, it was my honor and

1335
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:03,479
Speaker 1: my pleasure and uh, best to you and look forward

1336
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:06,840
Speaker 1: to the next airview. Yeah, thank you, Mike. Thanks Mike.

1337
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:11,200
Speaker 1: We'll stay we'll stay in touch and we'll coordinate for that. Okay,

1338
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 1: thanks guys. I think Mike Lampi is high in the

1339
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:20,439
Speaker 1: running for you know, the most interesting guests we've interviewed. Yeah, people,

1340
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:23,320
Speaker 1: people are definitely gonna enjoy this one most interesting man

1341
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:25,240
Speaker 1: in the world. You got to do, you got to

1342
01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:29,000
Speaker 1: do kind of everything from you know, post Vietnam up

1343
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:34,200
Speaker 1: until you know, the early nineties, really late nineties. And

1344
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:37,120
Speaker 1: I always keep in mind there's new people listening every

1345
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:40,680
Speaker 1: single episode, and um, people who just don't listen to

1346
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:42,800
Speaker 1: every episode. So if you enjoyed that, go back to

1347
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:46,760
Speaker 1: episode three nine one. Yeah, we talked about his early career, um,

1348
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:49,479
Speaker 1: you know, joining the Air Force and some of his

1349
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:53,040
Speaker 1: first assignments working in Laos and then we got into

1350
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:57,559
Speaker 1: you know, of course Iran and Operation Eagle Claw. UH

1351
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:01,360
Speaker 1: during this one and next time talk about Granada and

1352
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:05,760
Speaker 1: Panama and he was also involved in um some of

1353
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:09,639
Speaker 1: the aircraft hijacking operations to go and you know, free

1354
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:13,559
Speaker 1: hostages elsewhere. UM. So we'll talk about all that stuff.

1355
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:16,560
Speaker 1: Sounds good man, Maybe it'll be a good interview for

1356
01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:19,799
Speaker 1: march Um maybe April, but definitely in the near future.

1357
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:22,439
Speaker 1: We'll get him back on UH. With that, be sure

1358
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:24,360
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Speaker 1: Mountain Heroes. As you'll see, it's a shorter documentary, but

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Speaker 1: an amazing job. Guys who've heard on the show before,

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Speaker 1: and Uh. If you haven't seen it, yet that's the

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Speaker 1: become a spec ops channel member. So spec ops channel

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Speaker 1: dot com. There's plenty of other great footage on there

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Speaker 1: as well as um some future stuff that we're gonna do.

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Speaker 1: Uh with that. If you haven't, please leave a review

1415
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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. I don't say it enough, but it

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Speaker 1: really helps us out, helps raise our visibility. And uh,

1417
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Speaker 1: I know that some of you guys listen on Spotify,

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Speaker 1: you listen on Google Play, sound Cloud, but that's really

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Speaker 1: the best place to do it. Go on Apple podcast

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Speaker 1: right on the app. If you have an iPhone, you

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Speaker 1: have a five star review. Uh, and it's greatly appreciated. Yeah. Absolutely,

1422
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Speaker 1: I read all of them, so you know, whether it's

1423
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Speaker 1: positive negative, I check it all out and take the

1424
01:35:10,720 --> 01:35:13,360
Speaker 1: you know, take the feedback to heart because sometimes there's

1425
01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:15,320
Speaker 1: some stuff that I realized I can improve on the

1426
01:35:15,439 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 1: show can improve on. Uh. And Yeah, and you know,

1427
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:22,000
Speaker 1: we get plenty of guests suggestions sent to Softwrep dot Radio,

1428
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:24,960
Speaker 1: softwrep dot com. It becomes a lot to keep up with.

1429
01:35:25,160 --> 01:35:27,680
Speaker 1: But I think this has been a pact show with

1430
01:35:28,080 --> 01:35:31,439
Speaker 1: between breaking news and great spotow An interview with Mike,

1431
01:35:32,120 --> 01:35:37,920
Speaker 1: and we'll see you again next episode. Absolutely, you've been

1432
01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:42,599
Speaker 1: listening to Self Rep Radio. New episodes up every Wednesday

1433
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Speaker 1: and Friday. Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter at

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Speaker 1: self rep Radio.