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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: Nori with you. We're talking about dreaming techniques. Surge. Keheli King,

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Speaker 1: doctor PhD, is the author of many works on Huna

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Speaker 1: and Hawaiian shamanism, including urban shaman and instant Healing. As

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Speaker 1: a doctorate in psychology, trained in shamanism by the Kheli

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Speaker 1: family of Gawai, as well as by the African and

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Speaker 1: Mongolian shamans. He is the executive director of the Hunai International,

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Speaker 1: which is a not for profit worldwide network of people

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Speaker 1: who have dedicated themselves to making the world a better place.

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Speaker 1: Lives on the Big Island of Hawaii. Surge, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the program. Good to have you, Thank you, glad to

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Speaker 1: be here, looking forward to How is everybody on the

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Speaker 1: Big Island handling COVID these days? Oh well as well

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Speaker 1: as anybody can expect. We know there are restrictions here

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Speaker 1: of various kinds like anywhere else, but people are quite cooperative.

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Speaker 1: That's good. That's good. We need that. That's the only

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Speaker 1: way it's going to go away. YEA, By having that

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Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more about yourself and how

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Speaker 1: did you get involved in shamanism. Well, I got involved

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Speaker 1: in shamanism through my father, who had been adopted by

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian man named Joseph Kahili, And so many years later,

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Speaker 1: when I was fourteen, why he began introducing me to

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Speaker 1: that and so for three years I worked with him.

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Speaker 1: It was when I worked with him, it was mainly

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Speaker 1: things having to do with nature. We lived on a

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Speaker 1: farm and I got to know a lot about how

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Speaker 1: that worked. And so after he died, then I was

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Speaker 1: lost for a while until Joseph Kahili his family contacted

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Speaker 1: me and then he adopted me as his grandson and

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Speaker 1: turned his training over to his son and his daughter

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Speaker 1: for many years, and they helped me along. Your degree

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Speaker 1: is in psychology, that's correct, which is an interesting field,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, isn't it. Oh, certainly, and it's just right

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Speaker 1: for this kind of thing. And how did you begin

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Speaker 1: to steer yourself into the study of dreaming. Well, of

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Speaker 1: course that's an important part of shamanism, sure, but I

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Speaker 1: began to when I came back. I lived in Africa

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Speaker 1: for seven years, and when I came back from Africa,

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Speaker 1: there was so much going on in well, you might

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Speaker 1: call it new age stuff in a way. And I

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Speaker 1: came back in nineteen seventy one and just a lot

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Speaker 1: of things were going on, and among them was an

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Speaker 1: interest in dreams. So I became even more fascinated and

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Speaker 1: decided to go into it in depth, and so that's

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Speaker 1: when I began recording my own. Dreams. Are truly powerful,

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Speaker 1: aren't they? Oh? They are. And when you can use

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Speaker 1: them and they just you can do some incredible things.

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Speaker 1: Why do some people not remember them? Search? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to want to, for one thing, and you

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Speaker 1: have to think that they're important enough to do that.

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Speaker 1: So for most people in our society, dreams are not

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Speaker 1: given a lot of importance. So wake up in the morning,

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Speaker 1: move and you're focused in this outer world. And there

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Speaker 1: are various different kinds of dreams. How many do you think?

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Speaker 1: There are different styles? About as many as there are

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Speaker 1: different kinds of experiences in waking life. That's what I thought.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they're all kinds. I mean, we've had nightmares,

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Speaker 1: we've had lucid dreams, we've had precognitive dreams. But the

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Speaker 1: list when you look into them more deeply and start

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Speaker 1: looking at landscapes, and different kinds of interventions or actions

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Speaker 1: that you have with people, and so much stuff. When

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Speaker 1: you begin to learn also that we have in dreams

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Speaker 1: all the same kinds of thinkings and feeling and wonder

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Speaker 1: and in dreams as we do when we're awake. The

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Speaker 1: title of your book, Dreaming Techniques, tell me about that. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's what I felt was that I want to help

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Speaker 1: people get a lot to know a lot more about dreams,

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Speaker 1: but not only know a lot more, but to get

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Speaker 1: them interested enough into seeking more. So I decided there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of information about dreams, but they're scattered all

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Speaker 1: over the place. So I wanted to put a lot

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Speaker 1: of that information together, give my own perspectives, and at

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Speaker 1: the end of every chapter, you know, it's not just

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Speaker 1: me telling everybody everything. At the end of every chapter,

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Speaker 1: I have a list of questions that I hope will

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Speaker 1: stimulate more thinking and maybe more exploration. Dreams are powerful.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can get things done in your dream

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Speaker 1: state that you can't in your physical waking state. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's for sure. And by using it and tapping into it,

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Speaker 1: you can do all kinds of things. The subtitle is

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Speaker 1: important too. The name of the book is Dreaming Techniques,

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Speaker 1: but the subtitle is working with night dreams, day dreams,

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Speaker 1: and liminal dreams. Let's go through those are what are

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Speaker 1: the night dreams. All the night dreams, obviously are the

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Speaker 1: ones we have at night, when we're or anytime we're

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Speaker 1: in a sleep state. What I did was to make

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Speaker 1: it easier to understand. I felt I gave different categories

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Speaker 1: of consciousness a little different from usual. So what I

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Speaker 1: call a mode is when your eyes are open, but

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Speaker 1: you see. When your eyes are open, you can be

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Speaker 1: eyes open and aware of your environment, immediate environment, eyes

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Speaker 1: open and thinking about something, eyes open and seeing something

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Speaker 1: that nobody else's. And then there's B mode, which is

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Speaker 1: that in between state sometimes called hypnogogic stative state. Eyes

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Speaker 1: are closed, but you can be eyes closed and aware

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Speaker 1: of your environment, eyes closed and thinking about something completely different,

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Speaker 1: and eyes closed and getting all kinds of images and

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Speaker 1: experiences and visions like people do in what they call

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Speaker 1: deep trance states. But it's really just a deep set,

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Speaker 1: deep state of attention. And then finally, this is what

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Speaker 1: I call the C state, is when you're fully asleep.

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Speaker 1: That deep stone different ranges. These aren't levels that there

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Speaker 1: are different ways, like you can be fully asleep and

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Speaker 1: know who you are and not know who you are

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Speaker 1: mostly know what's going on, but then you can also

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Speaker 1: know who you are and you can reach a point

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Speaker 1: where you can actually take action on purpose in dreams.

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Speaker 1: Next up dage dreams. Daydreams is well. Daydreams are a

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Speaker 1: strange thing because everybody daydreams to some extent. Some people

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Speaker 1: make a profession out of it, probably the best day

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Speaker 1: dreamers or fiction writers. But then at the same time

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Speaker 1: people are told not to daydream. Okay, keep your mind

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Speaker 1: on this world and what we're doing out here, but

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Speaker 1: on the same time, follow your dreams. So it gets

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Speaker 1: very confusing for a lot of people. But the daydreams

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Speaker 1: so many ways in which we have those. One of

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Speaker 1: the ways, for instance, when if you ever see a

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Speaker 1: mime who seems to be usually it's washing windows or

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Speaker 1: going up and downstairs, but he's not. When they do

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Speaker 1: it well enough, the famous one was Charlie Chaplin when

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Speaker 1: he was pose in his pocket, and they do it

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Speaker 1: so realistically, but you see they're not doing it realistically

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Speaker 1: by their movements. They actually have to day dream a

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Speaker 1: let's say, a rose right there, and do it in

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Speaker 1: such detail that their movements are actually with this. We

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Speaker 1: might call it a thought form that they visualize it,

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Speaker 1: don't they visualize it exactly externally. And then liminal dreams.

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Speaker 1: Liminal dreams is when we get to the real strange

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Speaker 1: stuff that happens around the world, stuff that shouldn't happen,

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Speaker 1: ice falling, ice, and rocks, and even surprisingly in some places,

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Speaker 1: money just falls right out of the sky and there's

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Speaker 1: no explanation for it at all at this point, and

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Speaker 1: I certainly can't give you one, but I know it happens,

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Speaker 1: and I've experienced some of it in some ways. And

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Speaker 1: the things that happened, again that shouldn't happen, where people

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Speaker 1: miraculously survive an accident and that, you know, ve a

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Speaker 1: dangerous situation when there seemed to be absolutely no way

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Speaker 1: that would be possible. And then people go to old

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Speaker 1: battlegrounds and they can hear and sometimes see what went on.

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Speaker 1: We have a tradition in Hawaii of that they're called

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Speaker 1: night marchers. Night marchers, well, it's a vision at night,

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Speaker 1: usually of a troop of Hawaii ancient Hawaiians walking along

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Speaker 1: as if you know, they're bringing a chief from one

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Speaker 1: place to another, and they may come out of the ocean,

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Speaker 1: they may come out of a mountain wall and move past.

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Speaker 1: Some people will just see them. Some people will hear

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Speaker 1: the sounds of a trumpet and the movement of the walking.

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Speaker 1: There will be people with spears protecting the chief, and

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Speaker 1: then they'll some people fee both of those. And this

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Speaker 1: is reported. Doesn't have to be just by Hawaiians at all,

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Speaker 1: but it can be. It's reported on all the islands.

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Speaker 1: That is pretty dramatic in the power of Sigmund. Freud,

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Speaker 1: of course, devoted his career to interpreting dreams as well.

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Speaker 1: So this goes way back, doesn't it. Oh, good heavens,

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Speaker 1: all the way back to the most ancient times in

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Speaker 1: Egypt and in Greece, and in many of the ancient

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Speaker 1: ka China and many of the ancient culcultors. That there

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Speaker 1: are books still existing of dream records from those ancient times.

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Speaker 1: When we get into phone calls, do you interpret dreams

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Speaker 1: as well, Searge or not? I do as I know.

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Speaker 1: I will tell people how to interpret their different ways

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Speaker 1: to do that, okay, And so I'll give them out

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Speaker 1: of ways of remembering and ways in which they can

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Speaker 1: interpret them. I've got a million question since here for you,

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Speaker 1: But I'm going to tell you one of my dreams

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Speaker 1: that I used to have. It was a recurring dream

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Speaker 1: and it was borderline on a nightmare. Let me tell

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Speaker 1: you why. Years ago, when I was in college, I

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Speaker 1: went to the University of Detroit. We needed one hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty eight credit hours to get our bachelor's degree.

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Speaker 1: And I was in the college full time for the

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Speaker 1: four years. But after my second year, I got a

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Speaker 1: full time radio job, and so I switched my major

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Speaker 1: to nighttime courses, and I would do the radio job

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Speaker 1: during the daytime and then at night I'd go do

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Speaker 1: my courses. And you know, I promised my dad I'd

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Speaker 1: get my degree in four years. He was concerned about that,

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Speaker 1: and I did. I got it in four years. Well,

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Speaker 1: I got my degree, and everything was great. I went

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Speaker 1: to the University of Detroit, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: years later, years later, I started having nightmares I had

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty seven credit hours that I was

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Speaker 1: one short and that I didn't get my degree. And

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Speaker 1: this would be a recurring dream. I would dream this

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Speaker 1: once a week and it just drove me crazy. I

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Speaker 1: would dry, I would wake up and go, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I didn't graduate. And it got to the point surge

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Speaker 1: that I had to physically go get my diploma, which

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Speaker 1: I had in a box, and I put it next

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Speaker 1: to my desk stand at night so that when I

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Speaker 1: woke up I saw it it was open. It had

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Speaker 1: you know, George nor University of Detroit, Bachelor of Arts

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Speaker 1: and Communications. What was that all about? Oh wow, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's really hard to tell exactly what it was about.

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Speaker 1: There was some kind of insecurity going on, no doubt

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Speaker 1: about something. But too bad we didn't meet that. I

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Speaker 1: could have helped you in five minutes exactly. And that's

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Speaker 1: one of the things that I can tell people tonight

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Speaker 1: how to heal nightmares. But by by looking at the

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Speaker 1: diploma after a couple of times when I woke up,

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Speaker 1: that dream went away. I haven't and I haven't had

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Speaker 1: it in forty five years. Right, No, that was a

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Speaker 1: very good way to do it. But something made me

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Speaker 1: feel as if, and I don't know what it was,

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Speaker 1: that I was always a credit hour short or something.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I didn't think I was good enough. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, right, That's the thing. There's no way

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Speaker 1: to pin that down. Exactly, and so all dream interpretations

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Speaker 1: are sad to say, speculations, but thank god it had

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Speaker 1: a happy ending for me. Yeah, good for you. Geez. Nightmares,

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Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about them. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk for a couple more minutes before the break and

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Speaker 1: we'll come back for more. A lot of people have nightmares.

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Speaker 1: They are frightening in your dream state and what causes them,

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Speaker 1: And I don't mean eating the pizza before you go

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Speaker 1: to bed now. It's not just that there has to

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Speaker 1: be something going on in somebody's life for that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing to happen. Often it you know, during the day,

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Speaker 1: people will maybe have, like I said, insecurities anxieties that

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Speaker 1: are suppressed but get released in the form of a

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Speaker 1: nightmare when you're when you're asleep, you cannot always connect

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Speaker 1: the nature of the nightmare to exactly what's happening, but

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Speaker 1: I'll give you a little example. Sometimes you can. I

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Speaker 1: had a nightmare when I was in high school. And

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Speaker 1: nightmare was about some bullies chasing me down the street,

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Speaker 1: and they chased me down into this restaurant and I

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Speaker 1: hit under a table and they came and found me

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Speaker 1: and beat me up, and I woke up. So this

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Speaker 1: was going on, and I really was having a terrible time,

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Speaker 1: and so I did something my father taught me when

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Speaker 1: and didn't do this in the nightmare. I did this

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Speaker 1: during the day. I recalled the dream, followed the dream

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Speaker 1: all the way down into the basement under the table,

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Speaker 1: and then when they came down to get me, I

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Speaker 1: stood up, threw off the table, went over and grabbed them,

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Speaker 1: knocked their heads together, through them out in the street,

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Speaker 1: sat down and had a beer. You became aggressive on them.

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Speaker 1: What I did was stand up for myself and sitting

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Speaker 1: down having a beer as a teenager. That was That

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Speaker 1: made me feel pretty good too. But the point was

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Speaker 1: that I never had that again, and I never had

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Speaker 1: any trouble with the bullies again. Now did you have

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Speaker 1: bullies for real in school? Oh? Sure? Interesting, and that's

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Speaker 1: part of the dream. Then it just followed through that dream. Sure,

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Speaker 1: that was pretty pretty easy to connect, But it's not

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Speaker 1: always easy. Whereabouts seeing the brain, do we know where

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Speaker 1: dreams are originating? Well, I don't certainly don't think they're

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Speaker 1: in the brain, because really, okay, where are that? Oh?

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Speaker 1: The brain is a magnificent organ, but it's one organ

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Speaker 1: of our body, and it's only capable of dealing with

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Speaker 1: what it experiences. Well, dreams, once you really get into them,

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Speaker 1: have such amazing experiences of things that you've never done

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Speaker 1: and never thought you could do, and never dreamed of doing.

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Speaker 1: That strange phrase. But the brain can't invent stuff, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a process. So what is it? Well, outside of

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Speaker 1: the body, No, not outside of the body. How can

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Speaker 1: I put it? We can call it spirit, or we

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Speaker 1: can call it mind. I think we're more than our

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Speaker 1: physical body. Is it in the consciousness? Yeah, however you

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Speaker 1: want to you want to talk about that. You can

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Speaker 1: be conciously aware of it or not. So it's I

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Speaker 1: call it mind. Does some entity put it in us? Oh? No,

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Speaker 1: I don't believe so that we we created ourselves. Oh, true,

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Speaker 1: it's part of our nature. In fact, I think the mind.

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Speaker 1: This is a little far out, and of course it's speculation,

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Speaker 1: but I think the mind creates the body. How can

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Speaker 1: I never see myself in my dreams? I'm always like

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Speaker 1: I'm looking from the outside in. You probably don't record

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Speaker 1: enough of them, because I have seen myself like an observer,

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Speaker 1: I have seen myself. You see yourself standing there or

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Speaker 1: something I can see I don't. It's just like real

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Speaker 1: life right now where you know, buy buy microphone. I

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Speaker 1: can see my hands waving and stuff, but I can't

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Speaker 1: but I can't see my face. Or I have that too.

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Speaker 1: I have both kinds, all right, because the only reason

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Speaker 1: I know I have both kinds is because I read

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Speaker 1: quote is enough dreams in which the the the other

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Speaker 1: aspect appeared. Well, and what do you mean by record them? Write?

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Speaker 1: Write it down? That's what I did, write them dot.

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Speaker 1: I wrote down about over five thousand of my own dreams. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of materials analyze. That's another book. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: well yes, but that's what I use in the book

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Speaker 1: instead of using other people's dreams. These are yours, okay,

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Speaker 1: because it's a rich store of experience. And so I

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Speaker 1: talk about all kinds of things, that how dreams are constructed,

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Speaker 1: the landscapes that appeared, the interactions with other people. I

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Speaker 1: have dreams sometimes with how can I put it? Dreams

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Speaker 1: of not me? So in other words, I asked, I

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Speaker 1: identify with the character and the dream, but it's not me.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern and go to Coast to coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more