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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello friends,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Work in Progress. Today

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Speaker 1: I am sitting down with someone whose brain I am

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Speaker 1: absolutely obsessed with, and whose TikTok I am also obsessed with.

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Speaker 1: Today we are joined by none other than Aaron Parnas.

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Speaker 1: He is a lawyer, he is an activist, and he

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Speaker 1: also happens to be the son of Lov Parness. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the gentleman who was arrested for his role in the

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Speaker 1: whole Trump Ukraine scandal. My goodness. Aaron grew up in

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Speaker 1: a staunchly Republican family, was a Trump voter in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and then was inside the first administration and saw things

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Speaker 1: that really will come up to the reality of what

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Speaker 1: most of America is up against with an incoming oligarchy.

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Speaker 1: He has since become an activist in support of the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party. Sure, but I would really just say in

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Speaker 1: support of Americans, particularly school children. It was the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two Russian invasion of Ukraine that led Aaron Parnas

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Speaker 1: to TikTok. He actually works as a securities litigation attorney

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Speaker 1: at a law firm in Washington, d C. But it

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Speaker 1: was his personal connection to Ukraine and family on the

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Speaker 1: ground that really alerted him to the fact that American

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Speaker 1: media wasn't covering the whole story. So Aaron decided to

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Speaker 1: get on the internet and help. Not only is he

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Speaker 1: an impressive leader and the kind of guy who's bringing

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Speaker 1: Walter Cronkite energy back to the world of social media news,

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Speaker 1: but he's also a lawyer. He graduated with honors from

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Speaker 1: law school at the age of twenty one. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is a guy who got bumped up to high school

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Speaker 1: at the age of fourteen. And in twenty twenty he

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Speaker 1: published a memoir titled Trump First, How the President and

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Speaker 1: his associates turned their backs on me and my family. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about what that was like, seeing

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Speaker 1: from the inside of a scandal, how these enormous systems

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Speaker 1: of politics work, and how it really led him to

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Speaker 1: interrogate himself, his beliefs, and why he believes that truth

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Speaker 1: and trustworthy information should actually be the thing we are

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Speaker 1: all the most loyal to. As of today, he's amassed

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Speaker 1: more than three million followers on TikTok and he is

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Speaker 1: usually the first social media account that I check when

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Speaker 1: I finally let myself into my apps in the morning.

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Speaker 1: Let's hear from Aaron Parness. Hi, Hi, my internet friend.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited we're here.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited. Also, I didn't, like, I completely did

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Speaker 2: not realize I met you at the DNC when you're

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Speaker 2: with Governor Moore.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I mean it was so brief, but like

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Speaker 1: so brief.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it is going to be so fun. I'm really excited.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so amped. I like, I'm I'm sort of

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Speaker 1: at a loss for words because Aaron, where do we

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Speaker 1: even start?

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Speaker 2: Where? I don't I don't know. I mean, I couldn't

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Speaker 2: tell you. It's a show like truthfully, like bigger than

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Speaker 2: I could have ever imagined.

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Speaker 1: The weird thing is in these really bizarre ways. I'm

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Speaker 1: not surprised by anything. They gave us a roadmap, they

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Speaker 1: told us what they were going to do. Yes, it

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Speaker 1: was evil. Yes, it read like, you know, some sort

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Speaker 1: of insane spy movie that if you turned it in

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Speaker 1: at a Hollywood studio they'd be like, tone it down,

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Speaker 1: you're being ridiculous. But I'm I'm so I'm in shock

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Speaker 1: every day that it's really this depraved and terrible.

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Speaker 2: I get it. I mean I think that like it's interesting, right,

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Speaker 2: Like he did have the Project twenty twenty five roadmap.

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Speaker 2: We knew what they were. And then everyone was like, well,

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Speaker 2: he's saying he has nothing to do with Project twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five. Okay, great, look where we are at now.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if you saw a political

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Speaker 2: had an interview with the former Project twenty twenty five architect,

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Speaker 2: he was asked, what do you think about this? And

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Speaker 2: he goes, well, it's beyond my wildest dreams, like it's

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Speaker 2: even betaw that, and I mean, I think it's and

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Speaker 2: I think this goes to something that I've been talking

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Speaker 2: a lot about with like my friends and stuff, is

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Speaker 2: that the reason why Democrats don't have their act together

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Speaker 2: right now is because they're trying to compete against As

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Speaker 2: though Trump is running for reelection, he's not completely different

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Speaker 2: beasts right now, right like, he has completely unchecked power

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Speaker 2: in a way, he has a Republican House or Republican Senate,

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Speaker 2: and he doesn't care what the voters think because he's

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Speaker 2: not running for reelection, he has the next three and

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Speaker 2: a half years.

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Speaker 1: Not only does he not care what the voters think,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't care what the courts. Thing we have someone

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Speaker 1: who is occupying the highest office in the land, who

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Speaker 1: is often in the world called the leader of the

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Speaker 1: free world. You know, make up that what you will,

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Speaker 1: but that's the age old tagline for the American president.

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Speaker 1: This person doesn't care about anything but money and power.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm trying to like make sense. Had I

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Speaker 1: posted something about them gutting the EPA, and I just said,

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Speaker 1: tell me why this makes sense. I don't care if

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Speaker 1: you are a died in the wold liberal, if you

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Speaker 1: are a hyper religious conservative. Dirty air and poisoned water

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Speaker 1: and sewage in your drinking water and poisoned earth that

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Speaker 1: you can't grow food in is bad for everybody. So like,

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Speaker 1: what are we doing here?

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Speaker 2: To anyone's guess, I mean, I really think we're in

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Speaker 2: a position right now where he as president, really only

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Speaker 2: knows about ten percent of what's happening in his own government.

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Speaker 2: And I think he's really I mean every president really has,

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, kind of limited oversight of what actually

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Speaker 2: is happening day to day and all these agencies. But

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Speaker 2: I think he's gotten to a point where he's kind

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Speaker 2: of he has his little pet projects that he really

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Speaker 2: cares about, like provoking Hunter Biden secret Service protection, but

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Speaker 2: everything kind of give him carp blanche authority to those

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Speaker 2: overseeing these agencies, many of whom have their own pet

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Speaker 2: projects and their own kind of goals, whether it's remote

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Speaker 2: business interests for big oil for example in the epaight example,

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Speaker 2: or really anything else. So I don't think he really cares,

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Speaker 2: is the thing. He doesn't really care to go and say,

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Speaker 2: you know what, this is bad. It's more of like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, if you think that's good, if you

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Speaker 2: want to do it, go ahead and do it. I

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Speaker 2: don't really care. That's kind of where I think we're at.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, so we have to pause, We have to

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Speaker 1: rewind to catch back up to where we are today.

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Speaker 1: Because you have, I've really become such a trusted voice

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Speaker 1: out talking about the news. You are meeting the viewers

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Speaker 1: where they're at, which is largely on social media. Rather

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Speaker 1: than complaining that you know, no one's watching the five

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Speaker 1: o'clock news anymore, you're taking the news to the people,

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Speaker 1: which I think is incredibly important. I know, you and

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Speaker 1: me and everyone else paying attention saw the actual scale

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Speaker 1: infographic of how dwarfed by right wing influencers. Any truth

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Speaker 1: teller or messager on the left is so we got

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Speaker 1: to go, we got to go to the battlefield. How

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Speaker 1: did you get this way? Like, talk to me about

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Speaker 1: your childhood. You have always been brilliant. You started college

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Speaker 1: when you were only fourteen, you were in law school

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Speaker 1: by eighteen. Like the accelerated track is wild. And not

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Speaker 1: only were you clearly a brilliant kid, but you grew

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Speaker 1: up in a very political landscape. So can you give

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Speaker 1: the listeners who I very affectionately call my whipsmarties, So

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Speaker 1: they're exactly your kind of people. They like to know things.

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Speaker 1: Give them a little bit of like the background t

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Speaker 1: on how you got like this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, truth be told. I never wanted to be an

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Speaker 2: influencer or even do journalism. I always had a dream

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Speaker 2: of going to law school, working as a public defender

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Speaker 2: and kind of just doing that for the rest of

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Speaker 2: my life. Really, law school changed that. And talk about

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Speaker 2: what happened twenty twenty two, but that also changed. But

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Speaker 2: growing up, I grew up in a political household to

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Speaker 2: the extent that I had family that was close to

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump and had deep ties to the first Trump administration,

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Speaker 2: deep ties to those around they're now president, the former

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Speaker 2: president and really grew up in kinda maga world. I

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Speaker 2: claimed to be a Republican myself, even though I really

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Speaker 2: didn't know what that meant at the time, and I

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Speaker 2: was just I really saw a maga for what it

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Speaker 2: was from inside, being so close to it. And I

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Speaker 2: did that for several years while also in college slash

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Speaker 2: high school between before starting law school and then really

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Speaker 2: when I started law schoo when I was eighteen and

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Speaker 2: really exposed me to a lot. But I really didn't

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Speaker 2: start being on social media until twenty twenty two when

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Speaker 2: Russia did Ukraine. By then, I had already decided I

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Speaker 2: was no longer a publican. I'm actually a democrat. I

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Speaker 2: realized what that was. But in twenty twenty two, when

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Speaker 2: Russia invaded Ukraine, I had family in Ukraine, and I

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Speaker 2: would be hearing from my uncle and folks there about

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Speaker 2: what was happening on the ground in front of their house, bombs, overhead, tanks, outside,

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Speaker 2: crazy situation. Thankfully, everyone's okay. But I would hear from them,

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Speaker 2: and then I would see what's happening on mainstream media

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Speaker 2: here and it'd be completely different worlds. And so I

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Speaker 2: just opened up a TikTok account and just started making

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Speaker 2: videos and kind of the rest is history. So it's

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Speaker 2: been a wild, wild journey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting that you say the thing about

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Speaker 1: what you knew to be true from reporting on the

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Speaker 1: ground and what was being repped resented on the media,

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Speaker 1: because back in the day, you know, I'm not old

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Speaker 1: enough to be your mother, but I'm in that like

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Speaker 1: half generation above you. So imagine a time before TikTok,

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Speaker 1: before even Instagram, you know, Twitter had launched. When it

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Speaker 1: first did, I was like, who cares about pictures of

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Speaker 1: anyone's breakfast? The irony being that now I follow one

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Speaker 1: million food bloggers because I care turns out. But I

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Speaker 1: was sort of like, the landscape is weird, and as

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Speaker 1: an entertainer, you know, the tabloid culture then was crazy.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I don't want to participate anymore in

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Speaker 1: this cesspool that I have to. And then Deepwater Horizon happened,

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Speaker 1: and I knew that they weren't telling the truth about

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Speaker 1: this massive oil spill off the coast of Louisiana. I

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Speaker 1: had friends down there because I'd been making a film

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Speaker 1: there a few summers before. Fishermen I knew were sending

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Speaker 1: me videos and We're like, the news is lying. So

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Speaker 1: that's why I got on Twitter and I flew down there,

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Speaker 1: and then the Sheriff's threatened to arrest me and a

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Speaker 1: bunch of lawyers we brought from Global Green. It was

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Speaker 1: a whole situation, and I was reporting the news on

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Speaker 1: Twitter because the news wasn't reporting the news. And when

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Speaker 1: you talk about Ukraine, I feel like there were moments

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Speaker 1: when I went looking where I saw what was happening

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Speaker 1: on the ground there where I saw Russian forces tying

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Speaker 1: men up and executing them outside of their homes. We

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Speaker 1: knew they were kidnapping children, we knew that hospitals were

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Speaker 1: being bombed. I mean, it was horror, horror after horror,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't It wasn't in the sort of Walter

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Speaker 1: Cronkite news package you would have expected from the American news.

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Speaker 1: And now protests are happening in cities around America and

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Speaker 1: cities around the world about what's happening in America, and

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Speaker 1: they're not being covered on the news at all. So

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Speaker 1: how do you make sense of that? Because you've said,

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Speaker 1: you know, you mentioned earlier your family was very in

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Speaker 1: the mix in Maga World for our listeners, Love part

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Speaker 1: Us was tight heavily involved with Rudy Giuliani, Trump's first admin.

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Speaker 1: You've talked about having seen inside version one of this administration,

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Speaker 1: having been in the room for these conversations with top

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Speaker 1: Republican allies. So I'm curious because of what you've seen,

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Speaker 1: why you think they don't want us to see so much,

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Speaker 1: Whether it's about Ukraine, whether it's about the protests, like

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Speaker 1: what's going on here.

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Speaker 2: I think it's two things. I think number one, it's

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Speaker 2: fear and number two it's money. Right. I think the

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Speaker 2: mainstream media and just media generally is fearful of what

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Speaker 2: Trump can do to if they report something that's in

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Speaker 2: his eyes not correct. I mean we see it with

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Speaker 2: the ABC News settlements, right, we see it with It's

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Speaker 2: the sixty minutes Kamala Harrison or you lost suit. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he's going after the media now more than ever before,

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Speaker 2: and he has the people in his administration to do that.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's number one. I think fearful of

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Speaker 2: really getting attacked by the Trump administration. And that's also

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Speaker 2: why you see it's funny no one else is standing

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Speaker 2: up with the Associated Press right now after the Associated

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Speaker 2: Press was kicked out of the OBOL all these other

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Speaker 2: sane they're just fine with it apparently. So that's number one.

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Speaker 2: And then number two, I think it's money. I think

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Speaker 2: ultimately mainstream media is their company is just like anyone else,

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Speaker 2: any other company, ultimately about their bottom line. They care

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Speaker 2: about how much money they're making from ad sales, from

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Speaker 2: watch time and all that. So I think that they're

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Speaker 2: beholden to those that are paying their bills, and I

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Speaker 2: think those that are their bills often don't want the

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Speaker 2: same narrative that every day people want to see, in

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Speaker 2: my opinion, and I think that to your point, the

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Speaker 2: protests aren't being covered and all that, it's one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent true. And part of that goes to why there's

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Speaker 2: been such a rise in independent media right now and

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Speaker 2: why social media has really empowered kind of the next

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Speaker 2: generation of media, because mainstream media companies are slowly realizing

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Speaker 2: that they have to cover these events. If they don't,

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Speaker 2: they're just going to be left behind. And I do

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Speaker 2: see some subtle shifts in their coverage, but it's still

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Speaker 2: not there yet. I mean, we still have an hour

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Speaker 2: every night on CNN with Scott Jennings arguing in a

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Speaker 2: round Table with Abby Phillips. I feel so bad for

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Speaker 2: her because she's such a great journalist.

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Speaker 1: Because she's incredible great.

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Speaker 2: They put her on this panel with Scott Jennings and

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Speaker 2: it's no longer news, it's not Walter Cronkite. It's an

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Speaker 2: hour of opinion, and Americans are frustrated.

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Speaker 1: So absolutely, and now for our sponsors, I do hear

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Speaker 1: you on why they're afraid, But I also find it

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Speaker 1: to be ridiculous. I mean even the fact that ABC

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Speaker 1: News caved and the judge had to say, what's going

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Speaker 1: on here? He was convicted, He was found guilty of

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Speaker 1: raping this woman. What do you mean you can't talk

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Speaker 1: about that on the news. It's like splitting hairs here

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Speaker 1: in this way. That is so crazy, And yet they

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Speaker 1: want to him in haw ensue and claim, oh, he

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Speaker 1: could never And then here's Trump importing the Tape Brothers,

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Speaker 1: violent violent rape culture guys, having Connor McGregor accused multiple times,

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Speaker 1: and if I'm remembering correctly, someone on the internet can

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Speaker 1: fact check me in real time. Convicted of having raped

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Speaker 1: and assaulted multiple women, The Spiritual Advisor is on trial

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Speaker 1: for raping a twelve year old girl. Trump's spiritual advisor

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Speaker 1: for my friends at home. I'm air quoting so I

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Speaker 1: don't throw up on myself, Like I'm just I don't

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Speaker 1: understand how they will fold when the truth is called

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Speaker 1: a lie and then not talk about any of the

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Speaker 1: rest of the truth. And I'm curious your perspective on that,

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Speaker 1: because that seems like the sort of central core of

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Speaker 1: trump Ism, right, is to say everything you don't like

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Speaker 1: is a lie, and then two in the same breath,

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Speaker 1: say you love free speech, but then sue everyone who

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Speaker 1: uses their free speech in a way you don't like.

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Speaker 1: When you've talked about these conversations that you were privy

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Speaker 1: to for years, did you kind of see inside the

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Speaker 1: hive mind of this, Like what did you see that

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Speaker 1: made you go, oh, the emperor really has no clothes?

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Speaker 1: What revealed it to you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, I think just constantly how they spoke

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Speaker 2: about folks behind the scenes, like average everyday people and

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Speaker 2: especially young people. There was a constant, like subtle undertone

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Speaker 2: of like, they're not smart enough to really grasp what

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Speaker 2: we're serving, right, like what we're kind of telling the public,

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Speaker 2: and especially what we're trying to push towards young people.

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Speaker 2: They're not smart enough to really realize what we're going

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Speaker 2: to do, right, Like they're going to support us, and

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Speaker 2: then we're going to be able to do whatever we

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Speaker 2: want when we get into office. And that's kind of

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Speaker 2: what I saw over those years. And it's actually why

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Speaker 2: I'm not really surprised that young people and especially young

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Speaker 2: men voted for him a lot more now than they

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Speaker 2: did that even back in twenty sixteen, because what he

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Speaker 2: was selling appeal to them, even if it wasn't what

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Speaker 2: they're actually going to get over the next four years.

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Speaker 2: I will say that. So, I think something that people

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Speaker 2: don't really realize is that the weight of the Justice

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Speaker 2: Department and the federal government on your shoulders, whether you

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Speaker 2: are an individual being prosecuted or a company being sued

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Speaker 2: by the Trump administration, is so great, I mean, so

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Speaker 2: puditarily just anxiety inducing. I mean it is. And I

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Speaker 2: represented a lot of folks in criminal matters when I

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Speaker 2: was practicing as a lawyer, and there's nothing scarier than

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Speaker 2: having the Department of Justice go after you, because it

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Speaker 2: will cost you millions in legal fees, it will cost months,

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Speaker 2: if not years, of headache, It'll cost you so much

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Speaker 2: damage to your reputation, and the same thing applies to

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Speaker 2: any one of these media companies. ABC News is a

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Speaker 2: very large company. But if fearful that the Trump Justice

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Speaker 2: Department or the Trump FCC can go after them, then

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Speaker 2: to them, it's it's much easier to pay them off

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Speaker 2: fifteen million dollars then me in a year's worth of

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Speaker 2: litigation right now.

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Speaker 1: Right, But isn't that Isn't that dictatorship weaponizing a Justice Department,

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Speaker 1: weaponizing federal departments like the FBI to go after people

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Speaker 1: you don't like, rather than to go after people who've

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Speaker 1: committed crimes.

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Speaker 2: It is, and I thankfully, I mean, they haven't prosecuted

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Speaker 2: anyone yet, right, I mean it's only been two months.

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Speaker 2: They haven't. They haven't used the Justice Department to specifically

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Speaker 2: prosecute any of his quote unquote enemies just yet. But

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Speaker 2: we're seeing him lay the groundwork with him trying to

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Speaker 2: at least publicly say he's reversing Joe Biden's pardons, which

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Speaker 2: is insanity. We see the FBI purging and demoting a

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Speaker 2: number of top officials who worked on January sixth related cases,

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Speaker 2: and interestingly enough, in DC where I live, the US

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Speaker 2: Attorney or the acting US Attorney Ed Martin has really

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Speaker 2: claimed he's Donald Trump's personal attorney, has claimed that he's

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Speaker 2: going to be going after people who go after Elon Musk,

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Speaker 2: And so they're laying the groundwork to eventually do something.

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Speaker 2: I'm just glad they haven't done it yet, and I

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Speaker 2: hope they don't do it. Book you never know.

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Speaker 1: But here's what frightens me. It reminds me of the adage.

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Speaker 1: First they came for right. We all know the poem,

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Speaker 1: and we're seeing it now. They are disappearing people and

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Speaker 1: then claiming with no due process, no investigation, no evidence,

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Speaker 1: no proof in a court of law that any of

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Speaker 1: what they're saying is true. These men that they essentially

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Speaker 1: kidnapped and sent to this violent prison. And I'll salva

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Speaker 1: door the doctor who, uh you know, the kidney transplant

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Speaker 1: doctor who they deported. They said that they found photographs

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Speaker 1: sympathetic to Hesbolah on her phone. What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Who investigated that she's a doctor? Did she did she

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Speaker 1: download photos of a war zone? Did she like? What?

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Speaker 1: Tell me, tell me why and tell me the truth,

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Speaker 1: because I don't think anybody would want any version of

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Speaker 1: a violent criminal here. But what happens when we find

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Speaker 1: out that a number of those men that were sent

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Speaker 1: by the Trump administration to Venezuela were just dads. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what happens if they're American citizens? If they can come

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Speaker 1: for if they can come for fill in the blank,

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Speaker 1: if they can overturn your green card status, if they

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Speaker 1: if they can revoke your citizenship as they're threatening to,

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Speaker 1: they can do it to anyone, anyone. And that's what's

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Speaker 1: terrifying to me. So even what you're saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're laying the groundwork to weaponize the DOJ. They haven't

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Speaker 1: done it yet, it sure seems like they're going to.

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Speaker 1: And when a court orders them to stop these deportations

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Speaker 1: that don't have any what's the word, I'm looking for,

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Speaker 1: any any grounding in the rule of law, and they

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Speaker 1: say no, what do we do, Like, if there's no

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Speaker 1: checks and balances, who's going to check this guy?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I don't know. And the truth be told,

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Speaker 2: I've asked members of Congress, I've asked House member senators like,

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Speaker 2: no one knows, No one has an answer to it.

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Speaker 2: And I think I think you made an important point

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Speaker 2: that a lot of people, especially on the writer, are

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Speaker 2: missing and not that Democrats and just Americans generally are

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Speaker 2: okay with, for example, trend dere Aragua members walking around

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Speaker 2: on the streets. No one wants, no violent crime, and

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Speaker 2: they're undocumented. Remove them. Everyone's saying that. But under the

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Speaker 2: United States Constitution and under Supreme Court, President everyone, no

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Speaker 2: matter whether you're documented or undocumented, you have due process rights. Right,

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Speaker 2: you have the ability to face your accuser. And right

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Speaker 2: now he is suspending that, and that is dangerous. In

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Speaker 2: the situation of the kidney transplant doctor, I don't really

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Speaker 2: care about what she found, what they found on her

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Speaker 2: phone as much as I care about the fact that

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Speaker 2: there was a judicial order in place. That's exactly, don't

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Speaker 2: let her leave the country. And they let her leave

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Speaker 2: the country anyway, they deport you, exactly. That's the problem.

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Speaker 2: They're not going through the proper channels. And today Justice

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Speaker 2: Roberts rebuked Trump for calling for the epachment of Judge Bosberg,

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Speaker 2: which I thought was yes, you never hear that ever.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, can you walk folks through that because you

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Speaker 1: are you are a politically brilliant human. I am a

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Speaker 1: bit of a political junkie. Not everyone spends as much

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Speaker 1: time as I do, or as you do reading the

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Speaker 1: news and studying this stuff. Tell the folks at home

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Speaker 1: what that means for Chief Justice John Roberts to do

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Speaker 1: what he did today. Can you walk us through what

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Speaker 1: a big deal that is and kind of paint the picture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to put it into perspective. The Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court does not issue political statements, does not issue statements

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Speaker 2: about a sitting president, no matter who the president is.

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Speaker 2: It is so rare for it to happen, and in

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Speaker 2: the past ten years it's only happened twice. It happened

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Speaker 2: once in twenty eighteen and once today. And the reason

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Speaker 2: why and they're so careful about what they do that

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Speaker 2: they don't even clap during the State of the Union.

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Speaker 2: When Donald Trump or any president says the state of

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Speaker 2: our Union is strongly, very basic statements, they won't clap.

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Speaker 2: They'll just sit there. Many of them won't even attend

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Speaker 2: because they want to look as a political as possible.

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Speaker 2: And well, this morning, Donald Trump called for Judge Bosberg,

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Speaker 2: who's overseeing this trend dear Aragua Venezuelan and deportation issue,

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Speaker 2: to be impeached because he essentially did not agree with

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Speaker 2: his ruling and hours later, Justice Roberts issued a statement

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Speaker 2: saying that essentially, calling and I'm paraphrasing here, but calling

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Speaker 2: for the impeachment of a federal judge is just because

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Speaker 2: you disagree with their ruling is wrong. And it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: Roberts didn't say Trump's name in the statement, but he

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Speaker 2: essentially alluded to Trump's comments. Stunning because, like I said,

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Speaker 2: it's really only the second time in ten years. In

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Speaker 2: the last time was Roberts rebuking Trump in twenty eighteen

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Speaker 2: for labeling a judge an Obama judge, and he said

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Speaker 2: Roberts specifically said they're an Obama or Trump or Clinton judges,

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Speaker 2: they are just judges. And someone was like, wow, that's

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Speaker 2: a big deal then, But here it's even a bigger

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Speaker 2: deal because this is a case that Chief Justice Roberts

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Speaker 2: will oversee and you will get in front of the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court guaranteed whether or not Trump can use the

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Speaker 2: Alien Enemies Act. So given the fact that he's now

430
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: making a public statement, he is risking the possibility of

431
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: having himself essentially recused from the case by making this

432
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 2: public statement seemingly rebuking Trump. So it is stunning. I'm

433
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: personally shocked, teammated, never have imagined you would have made

434
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 2: something like this.

435
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's when your entire job is to be politically

436
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 1: neutral so you can be legally specific. To feel you

437
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: have to take a stand is not only radical in

438
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: a way, but it also could endanger your career. So

439
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: it's a very big deal. I think this is really interesting,

440
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: and it speaks to something larger, which is that I'm

441
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: getting the sense, whether it's these supposed criminals they're rounding

442
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: up or the supposed inefficiency in the government, it seems

443
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: like they told a really big story about a really

444
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: big problem and a really big budget imbalance, and it

445
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: seems like they've looked under the hood of America and gone, oh,

446
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 1: the problems are all a lot smaller than we thought.

447
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: Most people who come here are pretty nice and work hard,

448
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: And the federal government, while very large, is actually not

449
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: very inefficient at all. It just costs a lot of

450
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: money to run a country for three hundred and thirty

451
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: two million people, and to fund the things those people need,

452
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 1: like medicate, like libraries, like I don't know, the Department

453
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: of Transportation. It's not none of this happens for free,

454
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: Like we don't have water coming out of the faucet

455
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: or street lights that work for free, and a lot

456
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: of it requires global participation. You know, you see these

457
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: sort of threats of tariffs and all of this destabilization

458
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: because it seems like the fifth you know, fifth grade

459
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 1: bully wants to win in the sandbox. How do you

460
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: make sense of how we can begin to talk about

461
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: what the reality is in a country this big versus

462
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: these big scary lies that Donald Trump and clearly you

463
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,479
Speaker 1: know Elon the Kenemie cowboy who's weirdly in charge now

464
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: of all our personal data. How do we begin to

465
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: walk people back from the fear that they stoked that

466
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: just isn't being proven true.

467
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think the big answer to that is they

468
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 2: actually haven't done a lot. Like when you look behind

469
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: the hood of what they've actually accomplished in two months,

470
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: it's not a lot of stuff. There's a lot of

471
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: executive orders that say a lot of things, but don't

472
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: actually do a lot of things. A lot of It's like,

473
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 2: we have to study this over at the course of

474
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: ninety days. I direct you to do this over the

475
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: course of sixty days. Not a lot is actually getting done.

476
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 2: And what is getting done is getting reversed. For example,

477
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: just thirty minutes ago before I got on this show,

478
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 2: a federal judge in Maryland ordered essentially said that the

479
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 2: Trump administration has to reverse nearly everything they did with USAID.

480
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 2: They have to open up Oh.

481
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: Oh thank god, Oh my god. I was on another podcast, Aaron,

482
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: You're making me want to.

483
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: Cry, which is great news, right, but when you think

484
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: about it, the federal government will now have to spend

485
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 2: more money reopening USAID and REI all these people they did,

486
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,239
Speaker 2: saving all that money allegedly, right, allegedly, And you're saying, well,

487
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 2: you want government efficiency, but now we're spending more money

488
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: to cut money. It's it's wild.

489
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors that I really

490
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: enjoy and I think you will too. I think that's

491
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: something people miss is that, Look, nobody wants there to

492
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: be waste, right nobody. By the way, I got asked

493
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: ten years ago if you were if you were the

494
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,959
Speaker 1: president tomorrow, what would be your first action, And I said, well,

495
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: nobody's going to think it would be this, but I would.

496
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: I would hire forensic accountants to audit every single state

497
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: and department in the country. I want to know where

498
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: all the money is. I want to understand how best

499
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: to maximize the ROI of the United States budget, because

500
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 1: let's be clear, taxes are an investment in a society,

501
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: and everyone should be getting a return. Clearly, people like

502
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: Elon Musk don't want to invest at all. They just

503
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: want all the returns. They want to steal our money.

504
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: And apparently he wants to privatize Social Security because the

505
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: close to trillion dollars he has isn't enough for him,

506
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: and he wants two point seven trillion more crazy pants.

507
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: But I think it's also really important for people to go, oh,

508
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: there's probably not as much waste as we thought. Oh,

509
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: these programs cost money, but they make the planet healthier.

510
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: For example, with USAID, the work we do around the world.

511
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 1: That soft power is what won the Cold War. It

512
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: is absolutely first and foremost about national security, and it's

513
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: just the right thing to do. To ensure that people

514
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: around the planet have access to medicine that they need

515
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: that we can produce cheaply should be one of the

516
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: great honors of American civil life. And to be clear,

517
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 1: preventing the next pandemic, whether it be tuberculosis becoming untreatable

518
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: or a Bola matters to us because diseases don't stay

519
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: in borders. And so what I think hasn't been considered

520
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: is that to turn these things off, these giant machines

521
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: that get this flywheel of momentum, going to turn them

522
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: off lights money on fire, and to have to restart

523
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: them is going to require a whole lot of energy,

524
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: ie more money being lit on fire to get them

525
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: back to where they were in the first place. So

526
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: how do you think, because I'm going to say, I

527
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: feel better hearing you say, listen, it's really bad that

528
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: they actually haven't done that much. You're right, I needed

529
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: to hear that they've also done a lot of really

530
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: horrible things, and a lot of what they're doing is

531
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: so cruel. How do you think we begin to talk

532
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: to people, not just people like us voters on the

533
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: other side, our neighbors. The internet would make you think

534
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: of everybody hates everybody, We mostly all really like each

535
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: other in person. How do you think we start talking

536
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: to each other and letting the truth of how this

537
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: stuff works and how it's good for everyone actually ring true,

538
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: so that we can make like a team America, because

539
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: it really is all of America. Versus the oligarchs. At

540
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: this point, how do we start to to help cut

541
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: through the noise and remind people that we're in this together.

542
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: How do we bring the truth back to our side?

543
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye by sticking to it right bye, by

544
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 2: continue parroting truth. I think the truth is the most

545
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: important thing, and just sticking to the facts, that sticking

546
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: to the black and white, not sensationalizing things, right, getting

547
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 2: back around a dinner table and finding common agreement over

548
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: the future of social security, for example. But I will

549
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 2: say I think that in a time right now where

550
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: you have one party that is clearly unified behind Trump

551
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: and another party that doesn't really have an opposition leader,

552
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: to me, the best opposition is no opposition. This is

553
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: what the voters voted for. Give them what they want.

554
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: Let them see what they voted for. And you're already

555
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: seeing it. And his approval ratings are falling right Google

556
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: ratings among independence is down to thirty percent. Sixty seven

557
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: percent disapprove of him and you. And there are elections

558
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: coming up in New York in a special election. You

559
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 2: have the Wisconsin Supreme Court race on April first, you

560
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: have November elections, and then twenty twenty six, and slowly

561
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: but surely the pendulum will swim. At a time where

562
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: you don't really have a viable opposition. You don't have

563
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 2: a leader on the left saying saying the truth. You

564
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: have just a bunch of leaders who are not coordinated

565
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: and messaging. I really think it's important to let voters

566
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 2: see for themselves of like, is this really what and

567
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: listen at the end of the day, if Americans want this,

568
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 2: that's on them, Like, we can't stop that if two

569
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: point one percent want it. But I don't think that's the.

570
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: Case anyway, Well I don't either. I don't think it's

571
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: the case, not only with Trump voters, but I also

572
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: think it's really important, exactly as you said, to continue

573
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: to tell the truth. He had the smallest electoral margin

574
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: in history, right, He barely won.

575
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 2: Thousand votes in three states. That's it.

576
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: He barely won. So this is not a mandate, This

577
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: is not a demand. And I do think that the lawlessness.

578
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: You can't call yourself the party of law and order

579
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: and support people who beat police officers to death. You

580
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,959
Speaker 1: can't call yourself the party of law and order and

581
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: defy the courts and defy everything that is sacred about America,

582
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: which is our equality, our justice system, your right to

583
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: do process. You can't call yourself the party of family

584
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: values when everyone around you is a rapist and the

585
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: guy who you gave control of all of our data

586
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: has fourteen kids with how many is it seven or eight? Women?

587
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 2: Now?

588
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: Like, what are we doing? And I do think the

589
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: voters in watching what he's doing are having that, Oh,

590
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: the Emperor has no close moment. Do you think that

591
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: even though they're being heavily critiqued for it, the electeds

592
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: on the left, the Democrats aren't organizing a massive resistance

593
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: right now so people can find out.

594
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know. I don't know.

595
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: I think maybe we're giving them too much credit. I

596
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: don't know.

597
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 2: Maybe we are because the one thing that Republicans do

598
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 2: well and I saw this on the inside his message well, right,

599
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: like if they want to talk about Hunter Biden's laptop,

600
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: everyone from Tucker Carlson to your smallest mom and pop

601
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: influencer will be talking about Hunter Biden's laptop. On the

602
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: Democratic side, it's like, we have affordable housing, reproductive rights,

603
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: all these great things. But yeah, different topics, one hundred

604
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: different people and there's no coordinating.

605
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: But can I ask you a question, because now we

606
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: know how much money Russia has been pumping into these

607
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: right wing networks. We know that for them, this is opposition.

608
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: We know that they're bragging on our TV that Vladimir

609
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: Putin is destroying America without having to launch a single missile.

610
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: I mean they're talking about it out loud. They talked

611
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: about how they bought an election for Donald Trump. The

612
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: right wing all stays on message because they're paid to

613
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: deliver that message.

614
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: They do a good job. They have I mean the

615
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 2: left doesn't have that.

616
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 1: No, we don't have the money, we don't have the reach,

617
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: we don't have the like, we don't have the evil

618
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: network of billionaires you know, paying Tucker Carlson to do

619
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: pro Russia commercials. We just don't have it. How do

620
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: you think that became such a runaway train because you

621
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: witnessed some of that disinformation up close in your house.

622
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: I mean, your father literally helped Rudy Giuliani investigate Joe

623
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: and Hunter Biden this whole sham of a Ukraine story,

624
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: which now the guy has admitted he made up and

625
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: he's going to jail in the first place. But for

626
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 1: some reason, the fact that it's all been found to

627
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: be a lie hasn't broken through. So why do you

628
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: think that is? Because you wrote in your book, I'm

629
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: going to quote you to you, which is so cheesy.

630
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I'm doing it for the listeners at home.

631
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: You wrote in your book quote, it was clear to

632
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: me that everything the mayor and my father did through

633
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: the summer months of twenty nineteen related to Ukraine and

634
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: the Bidens was done at the direction and with the

635
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: consent of President Trump. But when your father got arrested

636
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen for this whole scam, Donald Trump immediately

637
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: distanced himself. So I would imagine as on the personal level,

638
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: your book is a way for you to stand up

639
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: for your out a little bit. But I would also

640
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: imagine on the social, sort of societal level, it's a

641
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: way for you to try to ring the bell and

642
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: say this was all made up? Was Can you tell

643
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: people about it because there might be somebody listening who's like,

644
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 1: what do you mean it was made up? I haven't

645
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: seen that anywhere. Give us a little overview, and then

646
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: tell us why you think the lie has continued to

647
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: outlast the truth.

648
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to me, every time I sat in

649
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: these rooms, and granted I was only privy to like

650
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: ten percent of everything that they were doing, right, so

651
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: there was a lot more that I was than privy too,

652
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 2: but everything every time I was in these rooms, it

653
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 2: was more of like, oh, we have questions that we

654
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 2: need to answer, and we keep hitting these roadblocks and

655
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 2: we keep getting the wrong answer or the answer we

656
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: don't like, and it's how to massage this answer to

657
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 2: kind of get it to where we need to go.

658
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 2: So it was always like they're constantly hitting roadblocks and

659
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: all of these quote unquote investigations, and I call them

660
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 2: shadow diplomacy schemes when I can.

661
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: I ask a question when you say hitting roadblocks, meaning

662
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: they would say find this dirt, and someone would say

663
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: the dirt doesn't exist, give it up, and then they'd say, no,

664
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: you have to make us some dirt more or less.

665
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: Or we're gonna mold what you said into something that

666
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: it isn't. Essentially, I really think the reason why it hasn't,

667
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 2: the debunking of it hasn't broken through, is partially because

668
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: the messaging on that side is just so well, it's

669
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 2: so easy to understand Joe Biden is corrupt. That is

670
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 2: so easy to grasp. It is much harder to grasp that, No,

671
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 2: actually the Hunter Biden laptop didn't contain exactly what it contained.

672
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 2: But like when you go into the details, you miss

673
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: the narrative, and they don't go on details. They have

674
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: their high level talking points and they stick to it,

675
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 2: and to this day, that's what they're doing on a

676
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 2: lot of these things. So that's why we're an average American.

677
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 2: It's so easy to understand like these big buzzwords or

678
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: these big phrases. On the other side, when you're trying

679
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 2: to fight for the truth, you do have to go

680
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 2: into the nitty gritty. You do have to be details.

681
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: But no one's going to listen to that. No one

682
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: really cared as much to listen to that. So I

683
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,439
Speaker 2: really think that's part of it. I mean, I will

684
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: say though, that we are in such twenty twenty twenty five,

685
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 2: we're in such a different space compared to where we

686
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: were in twenty nineteen. Like back then it was the

687
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 2: Trump administration. I mean that was the in the third

688
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 2: year of the first administration, and they were still figuring

689
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: out like they're left from right, like they still didn't

690
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: know really much about the levers of government. We were

691
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 2: in such a different environment. They know how to get

692
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 2: things done now, they know, they know the mistakes they made,

693
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 2: so it's a completely different environment.

694
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: Now, meaning they're more expert at how to break things correct.

695
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 2: Meaning I told everyone this back in the first or

696
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 2: really during the twenty twenty four election cycle, and people

697
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 2: are like, well, do you like Ron DeSantis or Donald Trump? Like,

698
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: who do you think would be better if you were

699
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 2: a Republican? I'd say, well, to any Republican who wants

700
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 2: someone in office, Donald Trump and we're on the sand,

701
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: want the same thing. One can just get it done,

702
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 2: the other can't. Right. Ron Sants is just a little smarter.

703
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 2: Donald Trump is an idiot. He can't actually get things done.

704
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 2: And we saw that in the first Trump administration. And well,

705
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 2: now he's in office. He has people around him who

706
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 2: have been in government know kind of what to do more,

707
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 2: and he has no one's obstructing him anymore, no one's

708
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 2: whistle blowing on him anymore because he has all these

709
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 2: loyalists around him. So it's just kind of like full

710
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 2: steam ahead. There's no learning curve anymore.

711
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what scares me is that there's not there's

712
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: not a Cassidy Hutchinson in the White House anymore.

713
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 2: And.

714
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: That's really terrifying. After you released the book, did you

715
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: hear from anyone on the Trump team? Did anyone reach

716
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: out to you or were you just immediately persona non grata.

717
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 2: I think immediately persona non grata. I mean, that was

718
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: that was such a crazy time for me. That was

719
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 2: also I wrote that book in two weeks between what Yeah,

720
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 2: so I was studying for the bar exam at the

721
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: time and oh my god, during COVID. I finished on

722
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 2: like at the bar exam was like October tenth or something,

723
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 2: and then two weeks later I published this book just

724
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: to get it out before the November election. And it

725
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: wasn't my best work, probably not, but I just needed

726
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 2: to get it out there in case someone was voting

727
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 2: and would read it and see it.

728
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: I am so shook.

729
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was a crazy time. It was also

730
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: during COVID, so I didn't really have anything else to do.

731
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: But wow, completely non related to this conversation, but I

732
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: have so many questions for you about time management, Like,

733
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: clearly you've nailed something, so we're going to have to

734
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: follow up. What is it like now when you look

735
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: back at that, Yeah, you know, you speak so much

736
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: about the days following your dad's arrest and trying to

737
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: make sense of all of this. I can't imagine that

738
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: it is comfortable to have to investigate how someone's so

739
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: important to you could essentially, I don't want to put

740
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,439
Speaker 1: words in your mouth, but I would imagine betray you

741
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: or your country in such a way. How do you

742
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: make sense of it? Like, what's your relationship with your

743
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: father now? Because this is a big national political scandal,

744
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: but this is also your dad.

745
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, I love my dad and not

746
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: my dad. I wasn't really involved in the yeah and

747
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 2: stuff like that, so that was kind of separate, but

748
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: from like a human perspective going through that, as I

749
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: guess a fledgling lawyer, I quickly realized because I wanted

750
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 2: to do criminal defense work, and when he was arrested,

751
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,240
Speaker 2: I kind of experienced the system from the family lens,

752
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: from the family of the accused. And when I said

753
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 2: earlier that there is truly nothing in comparison to having

754
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 2: the weight of the Justice Department on your shoulders, like

755
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 2: I thought, genuinely break a person down And to me,

756
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: I was looking at that and I was like, it

757
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. I mean, like whether or not you you

758
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: did what you're accused of, the hell they put you

759
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 2: through to get to their end result, Yeah, it's not.

760
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 2: And my dad, I mean, it's just a unique case,

761
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 2: and that there was a lot of national tension, right

762
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 2: he got an interview on Rachel Matta or whatever, like,

763
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 2: he definitely got some leniency when it came to sentencing.

764
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: But the average American doesn't get that same leniency. The

765
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 2: average am goes through this justice system with who can't

766
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 2: afford an attorney, who has like a single mom with

767
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 2: four kids and is being thrown away for years, and

768
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 2: they throw away, they throw them away, and they locked

769
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 2: them away without the key in a very scary, very

770
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 2: tough situation. I saw that firsthand as the son of

771
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 2: someone who was accused, and I want anyone to have

772
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: to go through that.

773
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: Right, It's such an enormous lever of an enormous nation,

774
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: and then when it's focused on you or your family,

775
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: it must be really terrifying. And I would imagine, again

776
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: I'm just speculating here, but I would imagine for someone

777
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: like your dad, to go what have I done for

778
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: this person?

779
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: Like?

780
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: What have I contributed to for someone who literally wants

781
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: to destroy everything we say we believe in. You know,

782
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 1: it's got to be hard. It's sort of I don't

783
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: know why this is what's populating in my brain, but

784
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: it makes me think so much of the accounts I've

785
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: read from other women who've been in abusive relationships, where

786
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: once you're out of it, you look back and you go,

787
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 1: how could I have been in that house for so long?

788
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: You know? But you're in it and it's your world

789
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: and it's you know, your family in certain ways.

790
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I will say I think that in the

791
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 2: days after my dad's arrest, that was like the first

792
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 2: time I experienced quote unquote fame or infamy in a way.

793
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: And like a moment where I was walking to school

794
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 2: two days after he was arrested, and there was like

795
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: a photographer from like like stopics waiting for me to

796
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,959
Speaker 2: walk by. A reporter slid her information under my apartment door,

797
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: and I was like, how the hell did you get

798
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 2: in there? And I had never been in like the

799
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,959
Speaker 2: public I ever, and I was like, what the hell

800
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 2: did I get myself into? And now five years later,

801
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 2: I'm a public figure, but it was it was truly

802
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 2: a scary time.

803
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: And now a word from our wonderful sponsors, I really

804
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: appreciate the way you've been so willing to talk about

805
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: all of this, not just on this show today, but

806
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 1: out in the world. And you know, I've I've read

807
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: some really amazing accounts, and I've watched some really amazing,

808
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: you know, on camera interviews from some folks who have

809
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: gotten out of the MAGA world as well, and we've

810
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: talked about how getting out of it is kind of

811
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 1: like having to get out of a cult. I have

812
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: a friend who got out of a cult. Like it's

813
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: the mindset. Stuff is really wild. And I'm really curious

814
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: from this perspective, not necessarily, you know today in twenty

815
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: twenty five, in the political landscape of you, however, many

816
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: pages of Project twenty twenty five were into but I

817
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: really mean just for you as an individual, because you

818
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 1: went from being a Trump supporter in sixteen to voting

819
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: for Biden in twenty twenty and advocating the way that

820
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: you have and publishing your book and doing everything you

821
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: could alongside the rest of us who tried to do

822
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: everything we could for this election. You have such an

823
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: interesting lens on this stuff. So what do you say

824
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: to people who are still supporting Trump? Like, how how

825
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: do you kind of get the tip of the spear

826
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: in to start letting the facts actually matter?

827
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, my one thing to all those people

828
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 2: would be to like go and have some of these

829
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 2: lived experiences that I've had. So made me kind of

830
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: switch because I never really bought into the Trump mantra.

831
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 2: Right in six twenty sixteen, I couldn't even vote. I

832
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 2: wasn't even old enough to vote.

833
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 1: So, oh my god, you told us that's true.

834
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 2: I remember, But it wasn't until like twenty eighteen or

835
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 2: so that I was actually some working in at a

836
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: summer job in law school, and a friend of mine

837
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 2: was doing teach for America in Miami, and she invited

838
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: me to come into the classroom and teach her students

839
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 2: about like just constitutional law, what happens if a police

840
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 2: officer comes up to you. These are like six seven

841
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 2: year old kids, And I been there and I was like,

842
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,479
Speaker 2: instantly it hit me. These kids, I mean, they didn't

843
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 2: have the resources that I had. Their clothing was right, like,

844
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 2: they weren't in a good school environment. They're lucky if

845
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: they had two meals a day, right, like their only

846
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 2: meal that they were getting within the school. And in

847
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 2: that moment, I was like, holy shit, one party cares

848
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: about these kids. The other party doesn't. And that's when

849
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: I flipped, and I think for anyone else kind of

850
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 2: in that world, I want them to have those same experiences.

851
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: And it's whether. It doesn't have to be in an

852
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 2: inner city school, right. It could be with an aging

853
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 2: parent who needs Social Security benefits and can't get it right.

854
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 1: It could be.

855
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 2: A spouse who has God forbid cancer and needs health

856
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 2: insurance and gets a massive hospital built. Until they experience

857
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: something like that for themselves, they won't realize like, okay,

858
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 2: one party wants me to be okay in a situation

859
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 2: like this, while the other party doesn't really care.

860
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, And it's really interesting, you know, you bring

861
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: up the experience of kids in school, and I've had

862
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: this debate with some folks online that are like, if

863
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: you can't afford to feed your kids, don't have them.

864
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: And I'm like, aren't you all the same people who

865
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: don't want women to be able to access abortion care

866
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: when they need it? Interesting, and it's my argument is always, Look,

867
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: I want my taxes to feed kids in schools. I

868
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: want kids to be well fed. And know, I don't

869
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: think pizza should be classified as a vegetable in schools

870
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: because of tomato sauce. I want them to have actual,

871
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: healthy food, and I want my tax dollars to go

872
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: to that. I don't want the money I pay in

873
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 1: taxes to mean that Elon Musk doesn't have to pay

874
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: any to mean that Donald Trump doesn't have to pay

875
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,720
Speaker 1: any Someone worth billions of dollars should not be paying

876
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty dollars a year in taxes. It's unacceptable.

877
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: And I think that the folks that are like, don't

878
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: live off the government, you know, make your own way.

879
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, make your own way. Go move into

880
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: the woods, don't use electricity, don't use water, don't use

881
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: the roads. You go live absolutely all on your own,

882
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 1: provide for yourself. Go. But the rest of us invest

883
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: in a society to be able to be in a society.

884
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: We're supposed to be in this together, you know. I

885
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: don't think it's a radical idea to say, well, if

886
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: it would be cheaper to have universal health care than

887
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: to do this, you know, private insurance nonsense we do

888
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: in this country, Like, let's shape it up, that's where

889
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: the money should be going.

890
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, I think something heartening I guess

891
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 2: for you and for your viewers is that I really

892
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 2: do firmly believe in polling has shown and even my

893
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 2: conversations have shown with folks on the ground and online,

894
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 2: is that we are really more united than we are divided.

895
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,439
Speaker 2: We are a divide agree, but truth be told, eighty

896
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 2: percent of the nation is united. You have the far

897
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: right and the far left, and they are the loudest

898
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,919
Speaker 2: voices in the room, but they aren't the most popular ones.

899
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 2: And that's why. And those who represent us in Congress

900
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: are not necessarily representing the masses. Right. There are six

901
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 2: senators from North Dakota, South Dakota, and Wyoming representing less

902
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 2: people than LA County. Right, Like, there's a problem inherent

903
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 2: in our system. But that doesn't mean people living in

904
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 2: our nation aren't united. And I really do think, I

905
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 2: do think that the pendulum will swing back to the center.

906
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 2: I do think we'll get back to normalcy. Take time,

907
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 2: and it'll Okay, that hurt, but we'll get there.

908
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: So should we go to South Dakota, Like, what are

909
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:42,479
Speaker 1: we doing?

910
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to, if you want to

911
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 2: go to South Dakota, be my guest. I don't want to.

912
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 2: Let's start with advocating for DC to be a state,

913
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico to be a state, right, Like I'm when

914
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 2: Donald Trump says make Greenland in the state, I'm like, cool,

915
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 2: two more Democratic.

916
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 1: Senators, right, let's go. Oh yeah.

917
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 2: But I really think like just getting back to the

918
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 2: kitchen table conversations, really just getting back to within your family,

919
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 2: within your friend groups, like too, And I think I really.

920
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: I hope that I hope so too, And that I

921
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: think is actually where the hope is rooted. I think

922
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: for anyone listening who feels hopeless, you got to get outside.

923
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: You got to talk to a neighbor. The silos and

924
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: the anger on the internet and the algorithm, it makes

925
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: things seem so much more hateful than they are in numbers,

926
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: and there's always going to be hateful people, but there

927
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 1: are so many more of us. What gives you hope?

928
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: And as you're making sure to fill yourself up with that,

929
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: how do you then also keep up with giving your

930
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: followers these daily and sometimes hourly news updates that can

931
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 1: feel hope less. How do you balance this stuff?

932
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, what gives me hope is actually funny. It's the

933
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 2: dms and the comments that I get from Republicans. So

934
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: I was into comments and dms from Republicans every day

935
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 2: who are saying, Hey, I don't necessarily agree with you

936
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 2: or agree with how you're framing this, but it's right

937
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 2: and thank you. Right, Like I have a Republican cousin

938
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 2: who doesn't watch the media but watches you. That to

939
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 2: me means that what I'm doing is breaking through, that

940
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 2: the truth is breaking through, So that is giving me hope.

941
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 2: And yeah, I have a large audience, but it's a

942
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 2: very small audience in compared to the overall number in

943
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 2: our nation. And I even if I could change one

944
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 2: mind or just expose one person to the truth, that

945
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,919
Speaker 2: is giving me hope and what keeps me going. And yeah,

946
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 2: a lot of the news is quote unquote bad, but

947
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 2: it is the news, and people have to be excited

948
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: about the news. People have to get excited about learning

949
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 2: about the news. And even if you think it is horrible,

950
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 2: and we are times, I get it. But there is

951
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 2: a light at the end of the tunnel. Because for

952
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 2: every bad piece of news, there is a good piece

953
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: of news out there. It's just going to come.

954
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was it that really made you say, Okay,

955
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: TikTok is it I'm just going to start making these videos.

956
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 1: Were you experimenting with it at first or did you

957
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: kind of see the vision of how you were going

958
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: to communicate and then relentlessly follow your instincts.

959
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I just think like it was like

960
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 2: that first video that really went viral when I got

961
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 2: and when I say viral, like when it got like

962
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 2: five thousand views. That to me, it was like, oh

963
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 2: my god, I'm viral.

964
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: Like it's yeah, I've done it.

965
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 2: I've done it right. Like, I think TikTok was like

966
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 2: the easiest platform for me where it's truly like the

967
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 2: amount of work into making these videos. I mean these

968
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 2: videos take me two minutes to make. I don't edit them.

969
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 2: There were one cut. Like it's super quick, super easy,

970
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 2: and it's just like the authenticity factor, Like I was

971
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 2: already scrolling an hour and a half every morning and

972
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 2: an hour and a half that night on TikTok. Why

973
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 2: not scroll five minutes less and make a video instead?

974
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 2: What I just started doing and now it's like whether

975
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 2: I'm in an airplane bathroom more in that at the gym,

976
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. The news is the news, and it's

977
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 2: just I'm gonna report. I don't I didn't look like

978
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 2: a hot ass mess, which I do ninety percent of

979
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 2: the time. But that's okay.

980
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: I think that's great. I actually put mascara on today.

981
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 1: That was my big, my very big step.

982
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 2: So my wife here before I came on.

983
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: So I love it. I love it. Well, what feels

984
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: like the goal? Like you're doing such a good service,

985
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: You're you are bringing so many of us together. You

986
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: are who so many of us check on first thing

987
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: in the morning when we you know, get on our apps.

988
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 1: But for you, aside from just how you're helping lead folks, like,

989
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 1: is there kind of an ultimate personal goal for you

990
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:52,919
Speaker 1: with the platforms across social media, the sub stack, which

991
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:54,879
Speaker 1: by the way, is so good for our listeners at home,

992
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: the partner's perspective, if you're not subscribed, get it together.

993
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 2: I think the ultimate goal is to bring Walter Kronkite.

994
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:06,359
Speaker 1: Back music to my ears and to empower.

995
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 2: A next generation of journalists right to make it, to

996
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 2: give them the platform to report their own news, to

997
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 2: make sure that young people now can feel comfortable getting

998
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 2: behind a camera and talking about what they see in

999
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 2: front of them at their owns every single day, and

1000
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 2: that they don't have to go through ten layers of

1001
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 2: review at a mainstream media company, and that they're just

1002
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 2: talking about the truth. So that's the goal that you

1003
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: spun again. And for me personally, my dream is too,

1004
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 2: potentially have a show one day where I can just

1005
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,879
Speaker 2: talk about facts for an hour, Yes, because I think

1006
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 2: it's it's so needed in this age. Kind of like Walter.

1007
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: Too, that is my dream. Should we do it together?

1008
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,879
Speaker 1: Should we do it in South Dakota? Feel like we're

1009
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:53,240
Speaker 1: bringing the news to you.

1010
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 2: We can ride on the horses with the Christy Gnome.

1011
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 1: Honestly, absolutely like my other goal in life to get

1012
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: back to riding. So if I could do the two

1013
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:03,280
Speaker 1: things at the same time.

1014
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 2: I would not do anything. Actually that's my biggest fear

1015
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 2: in life.

1016
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: Really. Okay, we can start small. We could just like

1017
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: go hang out and you could stay on the ground.

1018
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, my partner used to say that, and then

1019
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,439
Speaker 1: we baby stepped our way into it. And the first

1020
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: time she got on a horse by the end of

1021
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: that first hour, she was so happy she burst into yours.

1022
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: So you never know, I've been on horses. Ah okay, okay,

1023
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 1: it's a deeper fear. Okay, well this will be part

1024
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: of the offline thing. I have a question, because now

1025
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: you're really you're inside the baseball as it were. You

1026
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: used to say that you hoped to maybe be the

1027
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: president of the United States someday. Do you still think

1028
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: that or are you like, absolutely not, Hell, no, goodbye,

1029
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 1: I want no part of it.

1030
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 2: I am at the point of my life where I'm

1031
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 2: no longer planning my life, if that make sense.

1032
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: I love that.

1033
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 2: I growing up, I always was like, in five years,

1034
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to do this, in ten years, I'm going

1035
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 2: to do this. Well. If if I charted my course,

1036
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 2: the course that I passed out were created the path

1037
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 2: five years ago, ten years ago, it would have been

1038
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 2: completely different than where I am now. So I'm just

1039
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 2: kind of going with the flow, just enjoying every day

1040
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 2: and taking each opportunity as it comes to me. If

1041
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 2: I run for office one day, it's because I feel

1042
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 2: like I was the best person for that job and

1043
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 2: that no one else can do it better. But right now,

1044
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 2: I'm just kind of enjoying what I'm doing, so we'll see.

1045
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: I like that I am at the point in my

1046
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: life where I'm no longer planning my life right. Truer

1047
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: words have never been spoken. I think every time I've

1048
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: really gotten attached to a plan, even if I execute it,

1049
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: I kind of look around and go, uh oh, right,

1050
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: I think this was a really good idea on paper,

1051
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: and now that I've done it, I don't know if it's.

1052
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 2: For me right right, And honestly for me, it's like,

1053
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: if you gave me the opportunity between being Walter Kronk

1054
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 2: or being the president, I don't know that I would

1055
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 2: choose the presidency. Well, yeah, because you can do so

1056
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 2: much more like in terms of impact as the nation's

1057
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 2: truth teller than you can as a nation's leader.

1058
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's really interesting. So when you look at those

1059
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: sort of personal goals, and you know some of them

1060
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: obviously revolve around work, but then there's there's a whole

1061
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 1: other side of your life for you, for your joy,

1062
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 1: for your family, Like when you look at the year ahead,

1063
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 1: what feels like in your core your biggest work in progress?

1064
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 2: Good question, my honestly, myself and I'll be vulnerable for

1065
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 2: a little bit in that, Like I'm going to go

1066
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 2: to therapy for the first time ever this year, Like

1067
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 2: I'm sorry you right. Like I'm going to work on

1068
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 2: my relationship with my wife, were in our second year.

1069
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: Of marriage, building a home, congrets.

1070
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 2: So like that, that to me is the most important

1071
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 2: thing in my life, like my personal life and setting

1072
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 2: those boundaries and building those relationships and so that's my

1073
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 2: biggest work in progress the career, and funny enough has

1074
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 2: always come easiest to me. It's it's the personal stuff

1075
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 2: that's always been the hardest.

1076
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that sometimes. I think when when you

1077
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: are so hyper intellectual, you know, you analyze data, you

1078
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: understand policy, you you think about these big thirty thousand

1079
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: foot issues that affect so many people, your community focused, right,

1080
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: it can be really hard to then be in just

1081
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: inside yourself, one of one and figure it out. Yeah,

1082
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: and that's certainly been a been a journey for me.

1083
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: So you've got friends walking this road.

1084
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 2: Appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah.

1085
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really I'm really grateful that we got to

1086
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: do this finally today.

1087
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, so thank you so much for

1088
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 2: having me on.

1089
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled, and everybody better get on that substack. I

1090
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: hope that, I hope that this week your dms are

1091
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: filled with work and progress. Listeners being like, I'm all in.

1092
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: When are we going to South Dakota.

1093
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 2: Let's do it.