1 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't 2 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift. 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 2: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 2: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know. 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: If you can die before you die, then you can 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: really live. There's a wisdom at death's door. I thought 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: I was insane. Yeah, and I didn't know what to 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 2: do because there was no internet. 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: human first and a licensed therapist second. And right now 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope encourage you 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others, 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy. Hi, guys, 15 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: and you know, Welcome to a new episode of You 16 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: Need Therapy Podcasts. My name is Kat, I am the host. 17 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: Quick disclaimer up top that it does not serve as 18 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: a replacement or substitute for any actual mental health services. However, 19 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: we always hope that this can also, at the same time, 20 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: be a helpful resource for you and aid you on 21 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: whatever journey you're on. Whenever you're on it, whenever you're 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: listening to these episodes. Now, another little disclaimer I want 23 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: to give. Really, it's just an explanation of what this 24 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: episode is going to be like, because a lot of 25 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: times I'm either having conversations with people that have something 26 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: to teach us, or a important conversation that we want 27 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: to bring up in the world, or I'm just teaching 28 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: you guys something. I'm bringing you information and just giving 29 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: you somewhat of a little lesson. And today's episode and 30 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: I think that we'll probably be doing more episodes like 31 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: these in the future, and I think I've already started 32 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: to do them a little bit and I just haven't 33 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: said anything about it. But this episode is more me 34 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: talking through some stuff. I'm not teaching you something that 35 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: you would find in a textbook or going over any 36 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, just like factual things. I don't even know 37 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: really how to say this, because what I'm trying to 38 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: get at is this episode is more about me sharing 39 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: a conversation that I've been having with you guys in 40 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: my head out loud, and it's me learning and understanding 41 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: and really questioning in a good, healthy way things that 42 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: I have grown up around and in that I think 43 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: some of you guys also would relate to. And so 44 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: really this is just me taking some of my personal 45 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: conversations I have with myself and putting them out there 46 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: because I just don't think I'm the only one having them, 47 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: and I think that there is value in us sharing 48 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: some of those things. 49 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 2: So we're not just. 50 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: Questioning in silence, because questioning comes sometimes speaking of stuff 51 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: we've been talking about on the podcast, it can come 52 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: with a lot of shame because it might feel like 53 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: you're going against the norm or what you're supposed to 54 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: believe or what you're supposed to do. 55 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: And it's actually a really healthy. 56 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: Thing to do to be curious about what you believe, 57 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: what you've been told, the way the world works. It 58 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're saying that it's wrong, but it's 59 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: just saying, hey, I just want to understand this more. 60 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: I want to know where this came from, and I 61 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: want to get some background information. So the conversation that 62 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: we are going to have today, or that I'm gonna 63 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: have today with you guys, is really about the way 64 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: that I I'm probably gonna say myself, I'm also probably 65 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: gonna lump women in this in general, because I think 66 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: some of it is generalized towards women. But I will 67 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: start by saying myself that we'll be talking about and 68 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: what I want to bring to you today is a 69 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: conversation I've been having around the way we have viewed, 70 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: or I have viewed marriage and when it's supposed to 71 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: happen and why and what it means. And I think 72 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: that that is coming up. Probably not, I think I 73 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: know that this stuff is coming up more and more 74 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: for me now because I'm preparing to get married in 75 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: a month, and I've noticed the closer that I'm getting 76 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: to this thing, the more I am thinking about and 77 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: processing just beliefs I have about this thing. And it's 78 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: been very interesting to notice what pops up in my 79 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: head and what feels scary and what feels exciting and 80 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: all of that. And what has come with that is 81 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: me noticing on more of a higher frequency how bonkers 82 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: society can be at times when it comes to some 83 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: of the norms we have set within the dating sphere, 84 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: within the marriage sphere, and just the expectations that come 85 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: within those places, specifically for women. And I did an 86 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: episode a couple of years ago titled single people are 87 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: not second class citizens. And I think this was one 88 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: of my favorite episodes I've ever done. It was a 89 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: really interesting one for me to research. But also it 90 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: really normalized on my part at least, why so many 91 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: specifically millennials mostly are bumping up against this expected and 92 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: I think previously normal timeline that was set for our lives. 93 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: And when I say that, I mean you go to 94 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: high school, you graduate, then you go to college, then 95 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: you get married, then you have kids, and you buy 96 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: a house. There's like these things these I mean, the 97 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: just very basic generic thing markers, milestones that we're supposed 98 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: to hit, and Millennials have really gone against a lot 99 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: of those norms. And we're getting married at different ages, 100 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: we're buying houses at different ages, we're cohabitating differently, our 101 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: careers are looking different. And I've also battled this arbitrary 102 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: rule that I think that I've created in my head 103 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: that once I cover something, and once I talk about something, 104 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: I don't need to really go over it again, or 105 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: I don't need to talk about it too much. 106 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: I don't want to be redundant. 107 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: And that really stems from not wanting to just be redundant, 108 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: not wanting to bore you guys, and not wanting to 109 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 1: become stale and irrelevant maybe, but also this part of 110 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: me that really wants to be bringing you guys useful content. 111 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: And at the same time, I've been doing this for 112 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: almost five years, and there are going to be things 113 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: that come up more than once, and I'm starting to 114 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: understand that it's okay to talk about stuff more than once. 115 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: It doesn't always have to be completely new, and I 116 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: think that can be helpful to do that even if 117 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: you guys have heard those episodes before, if you're not 118 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: new listeners. And what I know about repetition is it's 119 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: a huge part in changing old narratives and old behaviors 120 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: that we are trying to shift. So it really is 121 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: more of a good thing. And this is me you know, 122 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: you can probably hear me working through this as I'm 123 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: speaking it to you, But this is me really stepping 124 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: into that where like I can be repetitive on here 125 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: and we can talk about something more than once, like 126 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: this old episode that I did, which today is a 127 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: little bit different, but we touched on a couple of 128 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: the same things. At the same time, I'm saying you're 129 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: welcome because This is going to be helpful if you 130 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: are hearing it more than once, because repetition is something 131 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: that actually has a lot of benefits when it comes 132 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: to shifting some of the things that I think you 133 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: guys come on here to listen to learn about how 134 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: to shift. So, speaking of being redundant, I also think 135 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: I've told the story who knows how many times about 136 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: how when I was in college, I have this very 137 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: vivid memory of telling somebody this timeline when I was 138 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: working at a young life camp, which is interesting. But 139 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: my goal was to be married at twenty three and 140 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: start having kids at like twenty five, twenty six, and 141 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: then like have four kids or something like that. And 142 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: while there's actually nothing wrong with that, and if that's 143 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: where your life leads you, that's wonderful. If that's what 144 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: you want, there really isn't anything wrong with that. What 145 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: is interesting about that story is for me, it's very 146 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: wild to think that I wanted to get married by 147 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: the time I was twenty three years old, like that 148 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: was a goal, because it feels the questions alf of 149 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: my head, like what's the rush, Like why so fast? 150 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: Like now that I know what I know, I think, 151 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: and now that I've experienced life not being married at 152 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: twenty three. And also part of the wildness that I 153 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: think about is isn't coming from a place again saying 154 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: that it's wrong to want that. It comes from this 155 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: place of being very very curious about out if that 156 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: was what I really wanted, Like I wish I could 157 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: go back and ask myself these questions, is that. 158 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: What you really want? 159 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: Or was that what I wanted because I thought that 160 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: was what I was supposed to do and I liked 161 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: doing things correctly. Maybe I didn't know that there are 162 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: other options that were also great options to want, or 163 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I was afraid of what it 164 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: might mean if I wasn't able to be married by 165 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: twenty three. There are so many different reasons that I 166 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: might have wanted that, And I really wish I could 167 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: go back and ask myself, because all I can do 168 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: is assume right now, because I didn't ask myself that question. 169 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: And I've been getting very into the B there and 170 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: five podcasts, and it was talking about friends, and I 171 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: don't know if this is completely true, and I might 172 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: be like botching this because I have to admit that 173 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: I have never really watched friends, which I know is 174 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: crazy to some people, but there are two characters that 175 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: they were talking about that made a marriage pack with 176 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: each other, and I think that was at like forty, 177 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: like if we're not married at forty, then we'll marry 178 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: each other. And I forgot about this idea of marriage 179 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: packs that like people would make those, like if we're 180 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: not married by this age, we'll just marry each other. 181 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because why forty is what I was thinking, Like, 182 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: why was that the age that somebody would choose, Like, 183 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: is that way past the deadline? And is that the 184 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: age that people think that, like, you won't be able 185 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: to meet somebody after that, or maybe at forty it 186 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: becomes shameful to not be married or something like that. 187 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: And as I was remembering just these marriage packs in general, 188 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, how many other shows 189 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: or movies were surrounded by marriage packs or had them 190 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: in them? And the first one that I found when 191 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: I was like looking this up was My Best Friend's Wedding, 192 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: which I have to also admit I've never seen this 193 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: one either, but in this movie apparently allegedly so that 194 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: says the two main characters. I think they're the main characters. 195 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: It's Julia robertson Dermott Mulroney. 196 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 2: I don't know who that is. I know who Julia 197 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 2: roberts is. 198 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: But in the movie, I guess they make a marriage 199 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: pact that if they reached the age of twenty eight, 200 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: they will marry each other. And that was shocking to 201 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: me that if they were twenty eight and they weren't 202 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: married yet, then they because they make it sound like 203 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: they would be settling. And I don't know what happens 204 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: in the movie. Off like they actually were in love 205 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: with each other, but the premise makes it sound that like, Okay, 206 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: we'll just settle for each other because like we can't 207 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: wait any longer, like that's way too long to not 208 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: be married. And after I saw that, I texted some 209 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: of my friends if they'd seen this in any shows, 210 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: and a couple of them said, no, I don't have 211 00:11:54,400 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: any examples of that, but I had one. After I 212 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: saw that, I texted some of my friends if they'd 213 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: seen this in any shows, and a couple of them 214 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: said no, I don't have any examples of that, but 215 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: I had one and two people two of my friends. 216 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: I didn't even text that many people, so it was 217 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: very interesting that two people out of the what I 218 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: think eight that were in these two group chats I 219 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: was talking to, said that they both had marriage packs 220 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: at twenty eight. And I don't know if that actually 221 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: came off of my best friend's wedding thing or if 222 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: that was like an age that to them outside of 223 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: that felt like oh gosh. And while I feel this 224 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: like shock, like oh my gosh, I can't believe that 225 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: we were thinking like this, at the same time, I 226 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: have this very deep sense of empathy for myself and 227 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: compassion for the people around me that including my friends 228 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: that made these packs. One of the reasons why I 229 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: mentioned having this empathy is because in so many ways, 230 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: we can really shame ourselves for how we used to think, like, 231 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I can't believe I used to think 232 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: that way. It can be actually very shaming the way 233 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: we say that, because I can believe it, like it's 234 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: shocking that we thought that. But if you sit down 235 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: and think about it, we think about the way we thought, 236 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: it makes total sense. And it's not like we created 237 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: these timelines or these ideas out of dirt, like we 238 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: obviously had experiences or actually really objectively we're told certain 239 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: things about marriage and when you should be married and 240 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: what it should be like and all of that. And 241 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: if I could take, like, honestly, if we all could, 242 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: all the people that fall into this realm of being 243 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: sold the typical timeline of marriage, specifically millennial women, But 244 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: if we could and older, if we could have like 245 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: a bird's eye view on just like what we went 246 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: through growing up, what we heard the messaging around marriage, 247 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: I think it would be really really interesting, knowing what 248 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: we know now, if like the versions of us now 249 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: could go back and just watch ourselves develop, I think 250 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: we all would have a tremendous amount of compassion for 251 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: ourselves and the people around us. And this may seem 252 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: kind of kind of in a school like small potatoes, 253 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: not that big of a deal to a lot of you, 254 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: that's okay, But for a lot of people, it might 255 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: feel like a really big deal. And I think it 256 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: is a really big deal. I can say specifically in 257 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: my life when I sit down, it is. 258 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 2: It's bigger than. 259 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: The issue at hand, because a lot of the messaging 260 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: that we endured about this stuff that we took on 261 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: as true taught us a lot about how to be 262 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: successful and how to be good and how to be wanted, 263 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: I mean all of those things, and being those things successful, good, 264 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: wanted was very much reliant on checking certain boxes that 265 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: now I look back on and say, well, those seem 266 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: very arbitrary, Like you getting married at a certain age 267 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: does not really have much to do with you being 268 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: good or wanted or worthy or successful. However, that's not 269 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: how a lot of us digested this information growing up, 270 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: because it's not really how it was given to us 271 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: and shown to us and displayed to us. They were 272 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: displayed as things that were kind of synonymous with each other. 273 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: And really getting married at twenty three really doesn't mean 274 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: much more than what it is getting married at twenty three. 275 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you have some innate quality that somebody 276 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: else doesn't have if they aren't able to get married 277 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: at that age or they don't choose to get married 278 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: at that age. 279 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 2: And I don't know. 280 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: I just think we get set up with this preconceived 281 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: idea of what we should want, and this turns into 282 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: what we want, but we aren't given a lot of 283 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: other options that. 284 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 2: Are portrayed as also just as good. 285 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: And if we are given these other options, like they're 286 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: not just as good, and they're they're talked about as 287 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: like constellation prizes or just a negative way, like she 288 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: didn't get married, but she's been really successful on her own, 289 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: or I mean anything we have to be married. It's 290 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: like she didn't have kids, but she has a really 291 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: loving husband. It's like, why is it? But like what 292 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: if somebody chose that? And what if that's not a 293 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: bad way to live your life. What if that's not 294 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: a wrong way to live your life. What if that's 295 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: not something to pity either. I think that's the other 296 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: thing that comes up, is there's this like essence of 297 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: pity if people don't do certain things. I don't know 298 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: if that actually calls for pity, you know. And I 299 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: was listening to another podcast this past week and it 300 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: was an episode of Sounds Like a Cult, which has 301 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: been a really fun podcast to listen to, and they 302 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: were talking about the cult of high fashion, which was 303 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: really interesting for anybody. I mean, I don't I'm not 304 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: into high fashion, but the episode was very thought provoking 305 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: and interesting to me. So even if you're not a 306 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: like fashion girl, he doesn't really know what kind of 307 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: shoes to wear with and what like cut of jeans 308 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,719 Speaker 1: were supposed to wear. The episode was just interesting in general. 309 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: They're talking about pockets and they were mentioning how pockets 310 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: were introduced to women's clothing and how women's clothing used 311 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: to not have pockets because you weren't supposed to carry 312 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: things around with you, Like women weren't supposed to need 313 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: to carry stuff around with them. That was like a 314 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: sign of wealth and purses. I mean, I think purses 315 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: were necessary because there were no pockets, and it was 316 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: good to have these very small purses because wealthy women 317 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: and high classmen, whatever however you want to name it, 318 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: these women wouldn't need to carry very much stuff. And 319 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: that's where this like termed bag lady kind of started, 320 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: like somebody who has these big bags a lot of 321 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: stuff with them. And I was fact checking this because 322 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's interesting. I wonder if that's 323 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: really where that came from. And I learned about this 324 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: term bag lady syndrome, which basically it's the fear of 325 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: a woman being left with no money and carrying her 326 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: belongings around in all these bags. And this bag lady 327 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: syndrome is also something that isn't just affecting women. Who 328 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: maybe are struggling financially. According to the Institute for Women's 329 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: Policy Research, they said sixty six percent of women ages 330 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: forty five to fifty nine in fifty two percent over 331 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: sixty worry about not having enough money to retire on 332 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,479 Speaker 1: and APA, which is an American Psychological Association and a survey 333 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: that they did back in twenty fourteen, so this is 334 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: nine years ago. But in the survey that they did 335 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: around stress in America, they found that women at all 336 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: points that statistic about women worrying about not having enough 337 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: money to retire on that statistic affects women of all 338 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: points of the financial spectrum. So it wasn't just women 339 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: who maybe were like these single moms who were trying 340 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: to make ends meet. 341 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 2: It was all over the place. 342 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: And even this article is talking about women such as 343 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: like Oprah and people like that have talked about this 344 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: fear of not not having enough but not being able 345 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: to handle and understand and take care of their finances 346 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: so they would be okay as they age and as 347 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: they couldn't work. And I found this really really interesting, 348 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: especially the part where it's talking about not just women 349 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: who struggle financially, it's women in general are having this fear, 350 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: like this bag lady syndrome, where they're worried that they 351 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: are going to be the bag ladies and they're not 352 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 1: going to be able to take care of themselves and 353 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: they're not going to be able to survive financially. And 354 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: if you have seen the movie Little Women, there is 355 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: a very very interesting scene. Wish that I could play 356 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: it on here, but I can't, so I'll link a 357 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,239 Speaker 1: clip to it so you can watch it later. But 358 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: there's this very interesting scene where one of the characters 359 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 1: was talking to another character was a woman talking to 360 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: a man, and it was about marrying a rich person. 361 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 1: And the premise of it, if you haven't seen the 362 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: movie is she was talking about giving up painting, which 363 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: was this thing that she loved to do, and the 364 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: person she was talking to, which is a man, asked like, well, 365 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: what are you gonna do now that you're giving this up? 366 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: And she said, I'm going to polish up on my 367 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: other talents and become an ornament to society. And if 368 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: you're not familiar with Little Women, it is based in 369 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: the eighteen sixties, so a long time ago, and this 370 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: is the reality of what it was like to be 371 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: a woman back then and back to this clip of 372 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: the movie. The guy was questioning her further, asked if 373 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: she was going to marry this certain person and if so, 374 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: if she loved him, and her response was very interesting. 375 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: Back to this clip of the movie, the guy was 376 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: questioning her further, asked if she was going to marry 377 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: this certain person and if so, if she loved him, 378 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: and her response was very interesting. 379 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 2: She said, he's rich. 380 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 1: I've always known I would marry rich, and why would 381 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: I be ashamed of that. I believe that we have 382 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: some power over who we love. It isn't just something 383 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: that happens to us. I'm a woman, and as a woman, 384 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: there's no way for me to make my own money, 385 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: not enough to earn a living on or support my 386 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: family on. And if I have my own money, which 387 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: I don't, that money would belong to my husband as 388 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: soon as we got married, and if we had children, 389 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: they would be his, not mine. 390 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 2: They would be his property. 391 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: So don't sit there and tell me that marriage is 392 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: not an economic proposition, because it is, at least for me. 393 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: And I mean, I just got chills just reading that, 394 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: because that is reality and was reality for literally women 395 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: in general. Back in these times, marriage was much different. 396 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: What it was, what it meant, how it needed to happen, 397 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: how it happened the time that it was appropriate for 398 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: it to happen, and just like what marriage was like 399 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: in general. And I have somewhat of an understanding. I 400 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't say I fully understand it, but I have an 401 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: understanding for the need and the desire to marry at 402 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,479 Speaker 1: young ages and times when women's economic survival depended on it. 403 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: I get that. It makes sense to me. 404 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: I feel a lot of sadness, like reading that quote, 405 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: I feel a lot of sadness about what it was 406 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: like to be a woman back then and how they 407 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: had to sacrifice a lot of things that really are 408 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,479 Speaker 1: I feel unnecessary to sacrifice if we were all treated 409 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: the way that human beings should be treated. But this 410 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: is the tales all of times. So what you can 411 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: see in this is that as our society has changed, right, 412 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: so women's roles have shifted since the eighteen sixties, we've 413 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: become able to be more independent and we've had our 414 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: rights expanded, and at the same time, there's still a 415 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: lot of this very traditional view of marriage and when 416 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: it makes sense to do so, and I think change 417 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: is just hard in general. But you can see how 418 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: like as our society has changed, as women's and the 419 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: roles for women have shifted and expanded, and we've been 420 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: able to become more independent, and our rights in general 421 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: have been expanded, that has all shifted and expanded over 422 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: time slowly, yet we still have held on to these 423 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: certain ideas in our head about marriage. And again, it 424 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: makes sense in the eighteen sixties when a woman couldn't 425 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: have a job or this or that, Yeah, you might 426 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: need to get married so you can have some kind 427 00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: of financial support in your life if you're not. 428 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 2: Allowed to work. 429 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: And that's not the case anymore, and so what might 430 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: have felt necessary back then doesn't have to feel necessary now. 431 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: But we don't really question a lot of times where 432 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: these thoughts come from. So we just carry these thoughts on. 433 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: And I think that's this whole plight around me wanting 434 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: to get married at twenty three. It's like, where was 435 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: I getting that from? Or where were the people that 436 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: were giving me the information giving that information from? And 437 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: it's from history, And this is where I can find 438 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: a lot of grace, right and also a lot of frustration, 439 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: because what I'm bringing up is because these reasons that 440 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: don't apply anymore around marriage, our judgment about the proper 441 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: age and what's the right thing to do should also shift, 442 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: and it hasn't, and we're still expecting and judging people 443 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: off of this quotes proper age to find a spouse 444 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: that doesn't really match up anymore with why that even 445 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: existed in the first place. And this like feels a 446 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: little off topic, but it's not me searching bag lady. 447 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 2: I don't know. 448 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes I like, I don't know if anybody else does this, 449 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: But once I start like googling things and I start 450 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: getting interested about certain things, it leads me to like 451 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: these other adjacent things. And as I was googling bag lady, 452 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: I decided to google spinster because that's a term that 453 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: comes up in my brain when I when I think 454 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: about it, feels like a very like I don't know 455 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 1: that I wouldn't call some me a spinster because it's 456 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: just not something I would do, but like it's not 457 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: like in my vocabulary, but I still think about it 458 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: when I think about an old cat lady like that 459 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: whole like trope, And so I was like, oh, I 460 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: want to see where that came from. And if you 461 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: don't know what a sinster is, which I think most 462 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: of you probably have an idea, it really is a 463 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: term that refers to somebody who's unmarried or who's older 464 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: than what is perceived as the prime age range which 465 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: somebody should be married. And I think back in the day, 466 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: if you chose to not get married, or if you 467 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: did not get married by a certain age, what would 468 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: happen is you would be given this job to spend 469 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: to spin rule or whatever it was. So that term 470 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: then just kind of encompassed that job. 471 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 2: That these people would be doing. 472 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: And as I was looking this up, I saw I 473 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: think it was Wikipedia that I saw this on, but 474 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: which I know is not the most reliable source, But 475 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: I think I saw in that article that the closest 476 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: equivalent term for a male is bachelor, which is laughable 477 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: to me because the term spinster and bachelor when I 478 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: hear them literally, could not have any more opposite effect. 479 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 1: The meanings are so different. I mean thing about it. 480 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: There was a show that was Start the Bachelor, and 481 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: it was a thing that was like very desirable. These 482 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: twenty five women would go on the show and still 483 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: go on the show and they all happened to fall 484 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: in love with this guy that is not married. So 485 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: it is just very interesting if it gives you, just like, 486 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: I don't know, a little pep in your step to 487 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: kind of shift some of these old views that like women, 488 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 1: if they were not married, they were called spinsters and 489 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: kind of seen us like, oh they In my research, 490 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: in my Wikipedia research, I also found that like another 491 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: kind of synonymous word was old maids, So like women 492 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: were old maids and men were bachelors, and that is. 493 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 2: Just very interesting to me. 494 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: I think part of that might be because it meant 495 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: something different if a woman was not married. I mean, 496 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: they might become that old bag lady who's carrying around 497 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: all of her stuff in these bags because she cannot 498 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: afford a proper place to stay or live or I 499 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: mean any of that. But a man who's allowed to work, 500 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 1: who can still take care of himself might not look 501 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: that way. Like these two things are different, however, they 502 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: are also the morality we put on them is not necessary. 503 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: Like that is very sad to me. I have so 504 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: much compassion for women that grew up in these generations 505 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: before us. 506 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 2: If it's hard now, then I just can't imagine. 507 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: And a lot of those women are the women that 508 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: have fought the good fight to get us to be 509 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: where we actually can have jobs. But also I don't 510 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: think I mentioned this. It makes me think about and 511 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,719 Speaker 1: going back to the bag lady thing, the bag lady syndrome, 512 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: where like people who are financially independent and stable still 513 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: have this worry. It comes from also like women's inability 514 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: to understand. We have been shielded and kind of sent 515 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: this message that we can't understand it or it's not 516 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: for us, and that men will take care of these things, 517 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: and that it's a man's job and to understand finances 518 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: in general, A lot of our fear around this stuff 519 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: is not self imposed. It's societally imposed. Like if I'm 520 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: told a million times I'm never going to be able 521 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: to understand how to balance a check book, why would 522 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: I try to start to understand how to balance a checkbook? 523 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: If something feels that overwhelming, I'm going to one probably 524 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: avoid it too. I'm going to start to believe that 525 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: like my brain can't comprehend that, and I'm going to 526 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: believe that like I need a man specifically, not even 527 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: a partner. I think that's the other really interesting thing here, 528 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: it's not even a partner. I need a man to 529 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: help me figure this out and take care of this 530 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: and take care of me. And I think that as 531 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: we start to see these women who are very independent 532 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: still have struggles to feel confident in these avenues, it 533 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: comes from this place that has told us in them 534 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: that like, you won't be able to do this, and 535 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: so we don't do it, and then we make up 536 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: this very real seeming story that we can't do it, 537 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: and it. 538 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 2: Just is a cycle. 539 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: That is just a cycle that I would I really 540 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: want to start to encourage ourselves to challenge and break, 541 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: which if you haven't listened to the episode I did 542 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: with Tory Dunlap, who has the Financial Feminist podcast and 543 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: also wrote the book Financial Feminists, she has done a 544 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: lot of good work and continues to do a lot 545 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: of good work around allowing women to feel empowered in 546 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: that way because she says, like a lot of times, 547 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: like money is power as much as we hate it, 548 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: and women are conditioned to have less of it and 549 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: want less of it and understand less of it. Anyway, 550 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: I had a friend one time tell me the story 551 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: about her friend that got engaged, and she said her 552 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: friend said it was the strangest experience when she got engaged, 553 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: and that she had never been congratulated on something more 554 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: in her life. Yet at the same time, she felt like, 555 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: what do you congratulating me on? This is not like 556 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: an accomplishment. She'd graduated college, she'd started a business, She's 557 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: probably I mean, done so many things in her life 558 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: that were accomplishments, Yet the most notable accomplishment to those 559 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: around her was that she got engaged, or that's what 560 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: it felt like to her by the influx of just 561 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: congratulations she got, whether it's social media or text messages 562 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: or just in passing. 563 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 2: And that will. 564 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: Always stick with me because while I do think a 565 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: lot of those congratulations are from very well meaning people 566 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: that are probably very happy for you and were very 567 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: happy for her in this stage of life that I 568 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: would hope was very exciting, and I can speak from 569 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: my experience. I mean, it was a very overwhelming experience 570 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: to see the amount of excitement other people had over 571 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: this thing that happened in my life when I got engaged. 572 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: And I bet if I looked at my Instagram from 573 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: the past year, I'm sure that my engagement post got 574 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: more likes and comments than anything else. I don't even 575 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: want to look at it. I'm sure that that is 576 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: the case, and I don't think that comes from a 577 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: bad place. I just think it comes from a very 578 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: interesting place. That these people are obviously happy for me. 579 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: This is an exciting time of my life. But it 580 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: is something that obviously we are very attuned to think 581 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: and to pay attention to and to assume is something 582 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: that we should feel overly joyed for somebody. It tops 583 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: all these other things. It tops starting a business, It 584 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: tops any other award or job or just anything. I 585 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: haven't done this, but like it would top like passing 586 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: the bar exam. I mean it topped me posting about 587 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: my getting my license as a therapist. In our head, 588 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: it tops like somebody like putting in the effort to 589 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: work on their trauma or you know, meeting a fundraising 590 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: goal for something that was really important to them. It 591 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: is something that we as a society just like celebrate 592 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: more than anything else. And I mean, just thinking about 593 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: this past year, I've had five celebrations for my engagement 594 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: before the wedding, Like there's been five large celebrations and again, 595 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: well meaning and I've enjoyed them, and I am glad 596 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: that they happened, But it does speak to the level 597 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: of importance we are conditioned to hold for this in 598 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: quotes accomplishment of finding a husband or a partner. And 599 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: what I'm not doing in this episode where I am 600 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: allowing you to enter my brain and the things that 601 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: I am currently just like mulling over. What I'm not 602 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: doing is asking people to care less about important moments 603 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: in someone's life. I wouldn't take away any of the 604 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: congratulations personally, I don't know about this person that my 605 00:33:58,640 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: friend was talking about. 606 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 2: I wouldn't take. 607 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: Those away because I appreciate that people are genuinely happy 608 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: for me. And I'm not saying that getting married at 609 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: a certain age is right or wrong. I think what 610 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: I'm really noticing is that we don't care enough about 611 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: other important moments in people's lives. We've just put this 612 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: one at the top, and so we've put it at 613 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,760 Speaker 1: the top for ourselves. It feels like we've missed something 614 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: or we've done something wrong, or I mean, it goes 615 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: back to that like pity of like when we see 616 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: people who aren't married, like what do we think? Do 617 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: we think anything. Do we think nothing? Do we think, oh, man, 618 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: why aren't they married? They're such great people? Like we 619 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: just like think that this is a bummer for them 620 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 1: before we even ask any other questions. And I think 621 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: we have a lot of more work to do as 622 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: a culture around how we frame people who are single. 623 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: Getting married might not be the most important thing that 624 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: a woman does anymore, and it might be, I think 625 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: it's fair to say, just like some people don't want 626 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: to have kids, some people that's the thing they want 627 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: to do more than anything else in the world. 628 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 2: It might be that the most important thing for somebody. 629 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 2: It really might be. 630 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: But I think we're in a space now where we 631 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,359 Speaker 1: are allowed to not assume that, Like it would make 632 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: sense for us not to assume it, actually, and maybe 633 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty plus years ago it would be 634 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: the most important thing, and if we assumed it would 635 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: make a lot of sense. But women are doing so 636 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: much and living these lives that are so beautiful and 637 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: wonderful and adventurous and different and unique, and I think 638 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: it is really really important for us to challenge ourselves 639 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: to shift our view of those lives that we are living, 640 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,399 Speaker 1: to shift the norms and the expectations that we have 641 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: as what we are doing changes, And maybe part of 642 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: that is challenging some of the pressure you are putting 643 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: on yourself unnecessarily around your own journey to find a partner, 644 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: or even things unrelated to marriage. I mean we're talking 645 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: about marriage, but I mean think about all of the 646 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: ways that the world has changed, yet the expectations have 647 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: stayed the same, and this can open a lot of 648 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: different doors to challenge some of that For you guys, 649 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily just have to stay in the realm 650 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: of marriage. And so I don't really have a conclusion here, 651 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: which is hard for me, especially in these episodes where 652 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 1: I want to leave you guys with like a resolution. 653 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: I don't really have that here. What I have is 654 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 1: a continuation of something that I think will never be 655 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: I don't think we'll ever have a resolution for this, 656 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: because as the world continues to change, I want us 657 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: to also challenge the norms and expectations that we hold, 658 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: like they aren't going to always say this same. 659 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 2: I've talked about a therapist. So I used to work 660 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:00,879 Speaker 2: with a previous. 661 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,720 Speaker 1: Job, and as we would come up with new ideas 662 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: and ways to do things, A very common thing he 663 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: would say is, well, we've done it this way for 664 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: fifteen years and it didn't make sense to do it 665 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,959 Speaker 1: that way anymore. But because it had worked for fifteen years, 666 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: it was very hard for him to shift his mindset. 667 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: And we have to do that, Like because something worked 668 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: last year, it doesn't mean it's going to work this year. 669 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: And because something made sense to you five years ago, 670 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean it has to still make sense to 671 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: you today. One of my favorite things is to remind 672 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: people that we're allowed to change our minds. The more 673 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: information we get and as we grow, we're allowed to 674 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 1: change our minds. We're allowed to change our opinions, we're 675 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: allowed to allow ourselves to be different. And this is 676 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: one of those spaces where I think that is really highlighted. 677 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: So maybe you're married, and it's not about you and 678 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: thinking you thinking about yourself. Maybe it's about the way 679 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: you are thinking about possibly your kids or people that 680 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, your friends. I just think that there is 681 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: a real conversation that might be important to have, whether 682 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: it's out louder y'all in your heads like I'm having, 683 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: around the way we are kind of subconsciously judging ourselves 684 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: and judging others and the way that the world actually 685 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: makes sense these days. If you had a marriage pact, 686 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: I'd be very interested to hear about that. If you 687 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: have any feedback around this episode, this would be a 688 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: really cool one to continue as a conversation with all 689 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: of the listeners as a community. If you have feedback 690 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 1: thoughts that came up, whether you related, maybe you disagree, 691 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: maybe you've experienced something that was really relevant to my ramblings. 692 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: Would love for you to share that with me. Catherine 693 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: at Niedtherapy podcast dot com. And I hope that, if anything, 694 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: this just gave you something to think about today. I 695 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: hope you have the day you need to have. I 696 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: hope you, if you want to get married, get married 697 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: the time you need to get married. I don't know 698 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,800 Speaker 1: if that really translates the way I wanted to translate, 699 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 1: but I. 700 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 2: Really do hope you have the day you need to have. 701 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: And I will be back with you guys on Wednesday 702 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: for couch talks. If you would like to follow us 703 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 1: on Instagram at You Need Therapy podcast and I am 704 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: at cat dot Defada. 705 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 2: I will talk to you Wednesday. 706 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:23,760 Speaker 1: Bye.