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Speaker 1: Build it Beautiful. Hi. I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, host of the

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Speaker 1: new houstuf Works Now podcast. Every week, I'll be bringing

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Speaker 1: you three stories from our team about the weird and

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Speaker 1: wondrous developments we've seen in science, technology, and culture. Fresh

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Steph you missed in history class from houstuf

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Tracing Built and I'm Holly Frying. Today we are picking

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Speaker 1: up where we left off in our story of Curricules. Mulligan. Yes,

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Speaker 1: inspired by the Blade Hamilton, although, as we mentioned in

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Speaker 1: part one, literally the only character or place or whatever

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Speaker 1: that appears in Hamilton's that no one has asked us

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Speaker 1: to talk about. I just wanted to do it. After

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Speaker 1: years of protesting and resisting British rule in New York,

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Speaker 1: Hercules Mulligan passed some important information on relating to the

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Speaker 1: safety of George Washington, which possibly saved the man's life,

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Speaker 1: and today we will talk about how this one time

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Speaker 1: act of happenstance where he just happened to be in

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Speaker 1: the right place at the right time with the right

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Speaker 1: intoxicated person to get important information sort of transformed into

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Speaker 1: a career as a full time spy. As we talked

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Speaker 1: about in Part one. Hercules Mulligan owned an extremely fashionable

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Speaker 1: clothing shop on Queen Street in New York. When British

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Speaker 1: forces moved into the city, more and more British officers

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Speaker 1: started buying clothes from him, including their uniforms and formal

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Speaker 1: wear for the evenings. Mulligan also did repairs for soldiers

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Speaker 1: in the lower ranks. He kept on selling to civilians

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Speaker 1: as well. Basically, anyone who wanted fashionable, well made clothing

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Speaker 1: could go to Hercules, and a lot of people were

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Speaker 1: willing to overlook his solid history resisting the British in

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Speaker 1: order to buy clothes from him. So great was his reputation.

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Speaker 1: There are also people who overlooked the fact that they

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Speaker 1: found the man personally to be kind of tacky and

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Speaker 1: grant and ghost like. You can kind of imagine a

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Speaker 1: very flamboyant, showy person rubbing some of the snobby or

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Speaker 1: ilk the wrong way. Because Hercules Mulligan's brother owned cartwriting

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Speaker 1: company and his wife was the niece of a Royal

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Speaker 1: Navy admiral, he was in a pretty socially prestigious position,

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Speaker 1: and as always, food, drink, and lively conversation were part

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Speaker 1: of any shopping excursion to Mulligan's place of business. He

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Speaker 1: started picking up little tidbits about the British forces and

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Speaker 1: its plans through casual conversation and through exactly what kind

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Speaker 1: of clothing people were ordering from him. Things that seemed

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Speaker 1: to be unseasonably warm or cool for what the weather

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Speaker 1: was like in New York suggested that somebody might be

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Speaker 1: about to be deployed somewhere else. Soon he became reacquainted

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Speaker 1: with Haimes Solomon, a Jew who had emigrated from Poland

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Speaker 1: and had been jailed at Provost Prison at the same

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Speaker 1: time as Mulligan had. Solomon told Mulligan that he had

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Speaker 1: told the British he wanted to join their cause, and

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Speaker 1: having heard that a lot of British officers were having

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Speaker 1: trouble communicating with German speaking Hessian soldiers, he offered his

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Speaker 1: services as a translator. As people had gotten used to

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Speaker 1: his presence, they had stopped being particularly careful about what

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Speaker 1: information they shared in front of him, or how sensitive

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Speaker 1: the materials were that they gave him to translates a bit.

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Speaker 1: As a bit of a side note, Solomon was one

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Speaker 1: of the people who was spreading rumors to the Hessian

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Speaker 1: soldiers that they'd actually be a lot better off deserting,

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Speaker 1: which is a phenomenon we talked about in our previous

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Speaker 1: podcast on the Hessians. Desertion rates were kind of high

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Speaker 1: because they had heard that they could stay in the

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Speaker 1: United States and run a farm, and how great that

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Speaker 1: would be. One of the sources of that idea was

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Speaker 1: Haims Solomon. Later on, Hams Solomon was actually captured as

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Speaker 1: a by and sentenced to death, but the sons of

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Speaker 1: Liberty Broke came out of jail. He went back to

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Speaker 1: his former work as a financial broker, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of his financial works supported the revolution, But some grandiose

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Speaker 1: claims for from later on that led to him being

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Speaker 1: nicknamed the financial Hero of the American Revolution were likely

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Speaker 1: invented or at least really deeply embellished by a well

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Speaker 1: meaning but over zealous son after his death. Mulligan's work

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Speaker 1: at the shop and Salomon's work as a translator meant

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Speaker 1: that together they had all kinds of access to information

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Speaker 1: that would be very useful to the Continental Army. But

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Speaker 1: by this point the Continental Army was headquartered in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: and there was no possible way either man could travel

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Speaker 1: there and back unnoticed. Yeah, apart from the fact that

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Speaker 1: Hercules Mulligan had already had only been released from jail

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Speaker 1: under the condition that he not leave New York. That

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Speaker 1: was kind of a hall. People would notice if you

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Speaker 1: were gone for that long, And so this is when

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Speaker 1: Hercules Mulligan turned to k too. So sometimes in the

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Speaker 1: historical record and in articles that Kato is described as

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Speaker 1: a servant, but it's far more likely that he was enslaved.

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Speaker 1: Like a lot of times, people used the word servant

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Speaker 1: to talk about people that they actually owned as property,

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Speaker 1: not as servants who were paid for their labor. He

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Speaker 1: so he probably was Hercules Mulligan's property. People were used

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Speaker 1: to seeing Kato deliver Mulligan's merchandise, both to British and

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Speaker 1: Hessian officers, so he seemed like a pretty good choice

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Speaker 1: to start delivering other things as well. First, Mulligan gave

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Speaker 1: Kato advertisements for his shop to take to Solomon and

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Speaker 1: have translated into German. Those were then distributed to Hessian forces,

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Speaker 1: and then Solomon would give Kato documentation of whatever intelligence

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Speaker 1: that he'd gathered, and Kato would take that back to Mulligan.

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Speaker 1: Some of this was about the British force and their plans,

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Speaker 1: where they were being quartered, how they were being trained

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Speaker 1: and disciplined, and what kind of supplies they were procuring.

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Speaker 1: Some of the information was about what was happening in

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Speaker 1: the war itself. Hercules Mulligan learned about the battles of

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Speaker 1: Trenton and Princeton, for example, from Solomon via Cato. As

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Speaker 1: the courier who carried the information. Hercules Mulligan gleaned information

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Speaker 1: from his brother Hugh as well. Hugh's firm had become

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Speaker 1: a supplier to the British Army, and as owner, he

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Speaker 1: had information about everything they were buying and where it

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Speaker 1: was to be sent. Some of Hercules Mulligan's intelligence was

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Speaker 1: gathered in his own home as well, as was the

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Speaker 1: case for a lot of people in New York. He

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Speaker 1: was made to house British officers there there is some

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Speaker 1: disagreement among historians about exactly when and how Hercules Mulligan

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Speaker 1: started officially spying for George Washington. However, sometime around the

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Speaker 1: spring of seventeen seventy seven, George Washington remarked to Alexander

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Speaker 1: Hamilton's that he wished they had a trusted spy in

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Speaker 1: New York City who could keep them informed on the

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Speaker 1: situation there. Unsurprisingly, Hamilton's suggested his longtime friend, well known

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Speaker 1: patriot and friendly year to a seemingly endless parade of

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Speaker 1: British officers in need of clothing for the job. The

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Speaker 1: formation of the Cooper Spy Ring would follow in about

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Speaker 1: one year. Let's talk a little bit more about Hercules

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Speaker 1: Mulligan's more official spycraft and how he eventually did become

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Speaker 1: associated with this Cooper spir Ring after avery effort from

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Speaker 1: a sponsored It's a little bit unclear exactly how Hercules

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Speaker 1: Mulligan found out that he had gotten a job at

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Speaker 1: a spy. The whole thing was undertaken with so much

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Speaker 1: secrecy that there's actually no mention of it in Washington's

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Speaker 1: or Hamilton's papers. In all likelihood, Hamilton's sent a message

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Speaker 1: along with a farmer or a merchant, or some other

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Speaker 1: civilian with a legitimate reason to get into New York.

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Speaker 1: Along with the news that he was to be a spy,

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Speaker 1: Mulligan also got a list of safe houses in New

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Speaker 1: York and New Jersey where he could send messages. Many

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Speaker 1: of these messages went via Cato, who people were used

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Speaker 1: to seeing out and about carrying packages to and from

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Speaker 1: Mulligan's shop. You would usually carry a collection of packages,

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Speaker 1: all looking very much like normal parcels of clothing, but

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Speaker 1: some of them contained the intelligence that Mulligan had gathered

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Speaker 1: at the safe house. Goods and intelligence would be repackaged

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Speaker 1: to remove all references to Mulligan and his shop, and

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Speaker 1: then they would be sent on their way. In late

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Speaker 1: April of seventeen seventy seven, Kato carried a package containing

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Speaker 1: details of a British armada that was being assembled under

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Speaker 1: General William how This is a particularly massive fleet which

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Speaker 1: would contain two hundred sixty ships and more than seventeen

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Speaker 1: thousand men, so the British Army was on the move

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Speaker 1: and by sea. This information also contained details of a

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Speaker 1: number of British and Hessian officers who were asking Mulligan

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Speaker 1: to handle rush orders of lightweight uniforms, so logical conclusion

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Speaker 1: the British fleet was headed south. Washington first moved his

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Speaker 1: fighting force to Middlebrook side of New Brunswick, New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: ready to either defend New Jersey from a massive British

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Speaker 1: attack or to move southward if that was warranted. Watchers

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Speaker 1: along the coast lost sight of the fleet for several weeks.

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Speaker 1: When they were sighted in the Chesapeake Bay on August

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Speaker 1: seventeen seventy seven, Washington deduced that their target was Philadelphia.

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Speaker 1: This information meant that Washington was in fact able to

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Speaker 1: meet in General how There and mount of Defense. However,

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Speaker 1: how superior numbers meant that he took Philadelphia just the same,

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Speaker 1: and he established a headquarters there For a while. This

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Speaker 1: meant that Mulligan's intelligence in New York wasn't as important.

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Speaker 1: It was nice to have, but with How's headquarters in Philadelphia,

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Speaker 1: it often wasn't as critical until later on in seventeen

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Speaker 1: seventy eight, when General Howe resigned and was succeeded by

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Speaker 1: General Henry Clinton, who relocated the British Army's headquarters back

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Speaker 1: to New York. It was about this time when Mulligan

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Speaker 1: first made contact with the Culper Ring so to recap

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Speaker 1: for the folks who aren't familiar. The call A Ring

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Speaker 1: was one of George Washington's intelligence organizations during the American

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Speaker 1: Revolutionary War. The Culper Ring was named for the code

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Speaker 1: names of two of its agents, Abraham Woodhull, who was

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Speaker 1: code named Samuel Culper and Robert Townsend, who was code

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Speaker 1: named Samuel Culper Jr. The Culpa Ring was organized and

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Speaker 1: managed by Major Benjamin Talmadge. There were other agents and

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Speaker 1: sub agences in this spy ring as well, and apart

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Speaker 1: from Hercules Mulligan, the most well known are Caleb Brewster,

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Speaker 1: Austin row and a Strong and a woman known as

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Speaker 1: three fifty five. Rather than sending scouts on short reconnaissance

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Speaker 1: missions in enemy territory, the Colper Spiring operated by keeping

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Speaker 1: a continual presence behind enemy lines in New York. They

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Speaker 1: were all effectively working undercover and reporting your findings of

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Speaker 1: British fortifications and movements back to the Continental Army. Mulligan

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Speaker 1: seems to have become acquainted with the Coulpor Ring through

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Speaker 1: Robert Townsend, a k A. Culper Jr. Who he had

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Speaker 1: actually known for several years and once he was aware

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Speaker 1: of the spir ring's existence, he thought it would be

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Speaker 1: a good idea to maintain a formal connection, to have

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Speaker 1: a second and sometimes better, depending on the circumstances, way

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Speaker 1: of getting information to George Washington. Abraham Woodhull really didn't

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Speaker 1: like this idea. As we mentioned in part one, Mulligan

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Speaker 1: had been extremely visible in his pro independence activities, Connecting

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Speaker 1: him Connecting with him seemed like way too much of

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Speaker 1: a risk for a very covert spir ring. So when

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Speaker 1: Townsend started spending time in Mulligan's shop and then collecting

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Speaker 1: documents to pass on to George Washington, it was not

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Speaker 1: entirely with Woodhull's approval. He was, in fact so anxious

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Speaker 1: about the idea of being discovered thanks to Mulligan that

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Speaker 1: he sometimes took to his bed over it. Talmudge, on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, knew nothing about it until after the

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Speaker 1: war because the need for secrecy was so great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they did not have any person who knew literally every

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Speaker 1: other person. That would be a bad idea and a

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Speaker 1: covert spir ring. That is a poor way to run

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Speaker 1: your spiring, right for one person to have literally all

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Speaker 1: the detail about all the other people. So Hercules Mulligan

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Speaker 1: used the Culper Spy ring to send his his intelligence

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Speaker 1: occasionally and somewhat sporadically throughout the war. He really relied

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Speaker 1: a lot more on Kato to do it. Kato wound

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Speaker 1: up being arrested and interrogated at Provost Prison at least once,

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Speaker 1: where he was reportedly treated extremely cruelly. Mulligan eventually arranged

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Speaker 1: his release, and he did continue to work as a

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Speaker 1: courier after that point, but having been captured once did

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Speaker 1: make him a little bit less effective as a covert operative.

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Speaker 1: He sort of was on the list now like Hercules Mulligan,

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Speaker 1: of people who were troubled. Mulligan was arrested a second

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Speaker 1: time in May of seventeen seventy eight, following an attempt

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Speaker 1: by British forces to recruit him to the army at

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Speaker 1: a tavern, thinking that he appeared to be so popular

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Speaker 1: that if he enlisted, surely others would follow. Mulligan, of

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Speaker 1: course refused, and the whole thing threatened to lead to

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Speaker 1: a huge bar fight before the British forces left. Shortly thereafter,

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Speaker 1: Mulligan was asted for obstructing a British officer in the

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Speaker 1: performance of his duties. Mulligan wound up giving a jovial

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Speaker 1: and lighthearted testimony on the matter, and the audience before

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Speaker 1: him included a lot of his customers, and once again

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Speaker 1: he was released, and once again afterward he returns to

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Speaker 1: his spy work. The information Mulligan obtained and passed on

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Speaker 1: in late seventeen seventy eight and early seventeen seventy nine

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Speaker 1: included a plot to capture or assassinate George Washington and

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Speaker 1: several prominent Patriot leaders, including Governor William Livingston of a

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Speaker 1: New Jersey. In July of seventeen seventy nine. He also

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Speaker 1: learned that Major Lynch was moving south was with his

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Speaker 1: entire core, which he heard from the man himself in

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Speaker 1: his shop and confirmed by finding out that his brother

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Speaker 1: was provisioning them. He also passed along information regarding an

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Speaker 1: eminent attack on Charleston, South Carolina in the winter of

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Speaker 1: seventeen seventy nine to seventeen eighty, which Washington was once

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Speaker 1: again able to act on, but similarly to previous experien

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Speaker 1: in sas it was not enough to successfully defend Charleston

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Speaker 1: from the British forces far superior numbers. In the summer

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Speaker 1: of seventeen eighty, Mulligan gathered some particularly sensitive information British

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Speaker 1: forces were planning to attack about five thousand troops led

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Speaker 1: by Count Rochambeau of France when they arrived at Newport,

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Speaker 1: Rhode Island, hoping to surprise them upon their arrival. This

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Speaker 1: would Britain hoped derail France's involvement in the war. And

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Speaker 1: this message was so important that Mulligan sent it via

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Speaker 1: the Copra Rings information chain and by Kato, going straight

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Speaker 1: to Hamilton's headquarters. Kato delivered his message first and once.

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Speaker 1: Once George Washington heard about it from Alexander Hamilton's he

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Speaker 1: immediately moved to defend of the French troop's landing. He

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Speaker 1: also created some false orders about attack being planned onto

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Speaker 1: New York, which he allowed to fall into British hands,

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Speaker 1: making Clinton too wary to leave New York and protected

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Speaker 1: in order to attack the French force. Rochambeau and his

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Speaker 1: men arrived in Newport and on their way without having

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Speaker 1: to fight off the British first. Other intelligence efforts were

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Speaker 1: not quite as successful. In the Summer of Hercules, Mulligan

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Speaker 1: was pretty sure that something was going on and that

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Speaker 1: it was something big, but no amount of boisterous conversation

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Speaker 1: and generous libations in his shop could reveal exactly what

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Speaker 1: it seemed to be happening around the Upper Hudson River.

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Speaker 1: Also suspicious on that front was Robert Townsend, whose family

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Speaker 1: home on Oyster Bay was being used to billet British

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Speaker 1: troops and Major John Andre was frequently seen visiting there.

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Speaker 1: What was going on was that Benedict Arnold was plotting

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Speaker 1: to hand over West Point to the British in exchange

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Speaker 1: for money and a commission in the British Army. None

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Speaker 1: of Townsend's or Mulligan's intelligence had added up to that.

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Speaker 1: I mean they both knew something was up that that

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Speaker 1: it still caught everyone by surprise. Andrea, however, was captured

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Speaker 1: with incriminating documents, so that Patriots did find out about

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Speaker 1: the plot, but not before Benedict Arnold was able to

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Speaker 1: escape behind British lines, carrying with him the knowledge that

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Speaker 1: Washington had a spy network, although apparently not a lot

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Speaker 1: of clear detail about who was involved or how Andre

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Speaker 1: was executed, and in retaliation, the British started rounding up

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Speaker 1: anyone Arnold named as a spy or a sympathizer hercules brother,

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Speaker 1: Hugh happened to be at Clinton's headquarters while negotiating a

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Speaker 1: provisioning contract, and he heard about this order. He let

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Speaker 1: his brother know and arrest was imminent, but Hercules refused

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Speaker 1: to leave New York. Once again, Hercules Mulligan was arrested,

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Speaker 1: and this time he was taken to Bridewell Prison, which

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Speaker 1: is where he learned that his arrest had been because

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Speaker 1: Benedict Arnold had named him as a spy. He nearly

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Speaker 1: escaped three days in, but a patrol spotted him trying

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Speaker 1: to climb over the prison wall. He wound up being

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Speaker 1: recaptured and then moved to Provost Prison, which was still

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Speaker 1: being overseen by his longtime enemy William Cunningham. At this point,

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Speaker 1: Mulligan was court martialed. The lead witness against him was

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Speaker 1: Benedict Arnold, but Arnold didn't really have any clear evidence

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Speaker 1: to give. It's likely that he had simply named Mulligan

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Speaker 1: as a spy because he had such long and obvious

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Speaker 1: loyalist leanings. Cunningham testified as well, but his evidence was

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Speaker 1: mostly his personal dislike of Hercules Mulligan. So with no

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Speaker 1: hard evidence and yet another silver tongued defense, on the

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Speaker 1: part of Mulligan himself. He was neither convicted nor acquitted,

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Speaker 1: but kept in Provost prison because surely, after so many arrests,

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Speaker 1: something must be going on. This really worked out to

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Speaker 1: be kind of a bad turning point for Hercules Mulligan,

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Speaker 1: and we will talk about exactly how after a brief

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Speaker 1: sponsor break. Records aren't clear on exactly how long Hercules

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Speaker 1: Mulligan was detained this time around in Provost prison. The

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Speaker 1: reason for ultimately releasing him also is not totally clear,

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Speaker 1: but it seems like he was in there for approximately

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Speaker 1: five months. Even though his clothing shop had been open

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Speaker 1: and staffed while he was in prison, business had dropped

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Speaker 1: off precipitously. Previously, it had seemed as though British officers

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Speaker 1: and soldiers were willing to overlook Mulligan's obviously loyalist leanings,

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Speaker 1: whether it was because he was so friendly or because

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Speaker 1: his store was so fashionable. They didn't seem willing to

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Speaker 1: overlook Benedict Arnold's allegation that he was a spy, however,

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Speaker 1: and that's this was especially true since he'd been imprisoned

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Speaker 1: on charges of espionage and never acquitted of those charges.

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Speaker 1: He wound up having to work for his brother while

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Speaker 1: struggling to keep his own shop open, even though loyalists

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Speaker 1: were far less likely to shop in his store. After

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Speaker 1: this point, Hercules was still able to gather information while

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Speaker 1: working at his brother's firm, which was still provisioning and

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Speaker 1: outfitting the British military and the Americans. It was while

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Speaker 1: working at his brother's firm that Hercules Mulligan heard of

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Speaker 1: another plot to kill George Washington, intended to take place

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Speaker 1: as he passed through Lebanon, Connecticut, on March five, s one.

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Speaker 1: This followed the British forces learning that Washington was planning

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Speaker 1: to meet up with Rochambeau. Sending messages via Kato was

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Speaker 1: really no longer an option, both because of his own

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Speaker 1: prior arrest and because he was owned by the not

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Speaker 1: ever actually acquitted of treason Hercules Mulligan, So Mulligan wrote

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Speaker 1: to Washington and sent his message by a Robert Townsend

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Speaker 1: in the Culper Ring. The message arrived in time for

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Speaker 1: Washington to change his route, avoid the British ambush, and

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Speaker 1: still make his rendezvous with Rochambeau. So this was probably

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Speaker 1: the second time that Mulligan saved Washington's life. Although the

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Speaker 1: play Hamilton's makes it sound as though the Patriots knew

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Speaker 1: their plan for the Battle of Yorktown would work thanks

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Speaker 1: to Mulligan's spy work, and there was quite a bit

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Speaker 1: of espionage involved in that battle success for the Patriots,

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Speaker 1: Mulligan himself actually doesn't seem to have been a major

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Speaker 1: player in that one. Most of the fighting in the

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Speaker 1: American Revolutionary War ended after the Battle of Yorktown did

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Speaker 1: now was in October of one, although the war itself

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Speaker 1: didn't officially end until September three, seventeen eighty three. That

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Speaker 1: window between the end of the Battle of Yorktown and

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Speaker 1: the end of the war was a particularly difficult one

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Speaker 1: for Hercules Mulligan and his family. Without British officers and

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Speaker 1: soldiers buying clothes from him, his clothing business nearly felt

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Speaker 1: failed entirely, and without a British army to outfit anymore,

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Speaker 1: he couldn't moonlight at his brother's firm anymore because there

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Speaker 1: just wasn't enough work for him to do there. He

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Speaker 1: wound up deeply in debt, and he tried and failed

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Speaker 1: to offset this debt by working in real estate. With

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Speaker 1: the end of the war, Benjamin Talmadge became afraid that

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Speaker 1: some of his Copra agent spies who had maintained loyalist

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Speaker 1: covers during the war would be harassed or otherwise treated

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Speaker 1: badly after the war had wrapped up. It was when

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Speaker 1: meeting with Washington to try to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: ensure the safety of his agents that Talmadge learned about

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Speaker 1: Mulligan for the first time. At some point, the two

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Speaker 1: men reportedly meant and Mulligan described his spy work as quote,

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Speaker 1: Generals have a way of talking sometimes when they're being

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Speaker 1: fitted for an embroidered waistcoat. So I keep my years,

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Speaker 1: so been. On November seventeen eighty three, after the end

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Speaker 1: of the war, George Washington and Alexander Hamilton went to

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Speaker 1: Mulligan's home at twenty three Queen Street to have breakfast

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Speaker 1: with the Mulligan family, probably as a show of thanks

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Speaker 1: for Mulligan's work. Washington also ordered a complete wardrobe of

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Speaker 1: civilian clothes from Mulligan, who from that point on described

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Speaker 1: himself as clothier to General Washington and his advertisements. This

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Speaker 1: event turned his business back around, although it was still

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Speaker 1: quite some time before he was financially solvent again. His

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Speaker 1: name was posted in lists of insolvent debtors until seventeen

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Speaker 1: eighty five, during Washington's presidency, at which point the capital

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Speaker 1: was in New York. He lived not far from Mulligan's shop,

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Speaker 1: and he visited their several times. Washington also continued to

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Speaker 1: buy clothes from Hercules Mulligan because of the extreme secrecy

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Speaker 1: with which Mulligan had carried out his spy work. Most

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Speaker 1: of their surviving correspondence is actually about ordering clothes, including

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Speaker 1: a letter written to order some Moleskin pants just sent

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Speaker 1: from Philadelphia in seventeen Hercules and his wife wound up

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Speaker 1: having eight children together, three sons and five daughters, and

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Speaker 1: they prospered until his eighteen twenty retirement. Their children were John, Sarah, Elizabeth, Margaret, William, Francis, Hercules,

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Speaker 1: and Mary. Several of them lived quite long lives, although

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Speaker 1: the younger three, Francis, Hercules and Mary died at the

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Speaker 1: ages of ten, nine months and five. Hercules Mulligan himself

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Speaker 1: passed away in eighteen twenty nine, and he's buried in

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Speaker 1: Trinity Churchyard, not that far from Alexander Hamilton. That is

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Speaker 1: Hercules Mulligan's story, and while um many people probably want

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Speaker 1: to sing songs from Hamilton's Now I have the Disney

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Speaker 1: Um Gospel Choir Hercules thing going on in my head.

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Speaker 1: It's very fun to say Hercules Mulligan. It is. It's

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Speaker 1: a good name. And I feel like some of the

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Speaker 1: some of the things that I read as as I

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Speaker 1: was preparing for this. Uh. You know, often we use

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Speaker 1: people's surnames more when we're just talking about a person

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Speaker 1: at length in a podcast. Uh. And it just seemed

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Speaker 1: like a lot of people were electing to call him

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Speaker 1: Hercules mulling In all the way through, maybe just because

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Speaker 1: they were tickled by that being such an awesome name.

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Speaker 1: I can't blame them. Uh. Do you have a little

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Speaker 1: bit of listener mail for us as well? Do? It

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00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 1: is from fan stands as good morning ladies. I just

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Speaker 1: finished listening to the Wasp episodes and thought you might

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Speaker 1: enjoy some personal slash family lore regarding the WASP group.

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Speaker 1: My grandmother was a registered nurse in the Army Air

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Speaker 1: Corps during World War Two. She was stationed stateside down

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Speaker 1: in Dover, Delaware. She told us a story that involved

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Speaker 1: herself and other nurses at the base. During the day,

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Speaker 1: the nurses had washed their clothes and had everything hang

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Speaker 1: out on a clothesline to dry. During that day, a

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Speaker 1: group of wasp flew into the base. Once on base,

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Speaker 1: they showered and freshened up. When my grandmother and her

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Speaker 1: nurse friends went to retrieve their clothes, they were missing underwear.

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Speaker 1: The presumption was when the wasps flew in, they nabbed

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Speaker 1: the clean clothes to change into. After that, the nurses

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Speaker 1: would dry their clothes inside their barracks. My grandmother told

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Speaker 1: the story and laughed about it. I have no idea

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Speaker 1: whether that family story is true or not, but it

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Speaker 1: does amuse me a little bit that maybe if you

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Speaker 1: were flying into a base and freshening up, you might

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Speaker 1: want something clear to put on, and and and maybe

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Speaker 1: you might take a less than up and up way

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Speaker 1: solve that problem. During wartime, this letter goes on, my

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Speaker 1: grandmother had to go to the mess hall to order

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Speaker 1: food for the patients. So during this time she started

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Speaker 1: dating a man who would become my grandfather. She was

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Speaker 1: she was a second lieutenant, he was a staff sergeant.

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Speaker 1: It was an officer and an enlisted avan situation which

431
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: is frowned upon in the military. She finished her tour,

432
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 1: was honorably discharged and they were married. Then my grandfather

433
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: was sent over to India to finish this time and

434
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: the war wrapped up. I find it amazing how women

435
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: during World War two were allowed to do quote men's work,

436
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: but once the men returned, women were sidelined. I think

437
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: you did a great job of explaining how the wasp

438
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 1: did their job in such a way as to not

439
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: threaten a man's job, but as soon as things slowed down,

440
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: they were they were essentially threatening men's work by taking

441
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: away jobs from men. Uh think about it, This happened everywhere.

442
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: Rosie the riverter was sent home from the factory when

443
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: the boys came back from the warfront. This must have

444
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: been very difficult for young women of that generation to

445
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: have broken through the glass ceiling just to get pushed

446
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: back down when the war was over. I was too

447
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: young to really think about these things when my grandmother

448
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: was alive. When I think about it, though, my mother

449
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: grew up with two working parents, something that was kind

450
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: of unusual back in those days. I feel like anyone

451
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: can do anything regardless of your gender, race orientation, But

452
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: even today, I think there is a gap between women

453
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: and men, and also a race gap. I feel very

454
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: strongly that there is a biased toward girls in certain

455
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: race groups at a young age that carry on and

456
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: perpetuate stereotyping. Well we as a society ever reached a

457
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: place where everyone is equal based on GIL, I don't know,

458
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: but I think there needs to be a ton of

459
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: fundamental changes to happen before society embraces these viewpoints completely. Sincerely, Stand,

460
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Stand. I love this story. As

461
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 1: I alluded to, I love the story about UH alleged

462
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: undergarment theft. It tickles me a little bit. I agree

463
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: like with it. Definitely was hard for UH, for women

464
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: who had been out in the workforce and enjoyed in

465
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: a lot of cases being out in the word workforce,

466
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: then being basically UH stepped backward once the war was over,

467
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons why we have told

468
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: some of those stories on the show. If you would

469
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: like to write to us about this or any other podcast,

470
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: you can at History Podcast that How Stuffworks dot com.

471
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: We do already have every other thing ever mentioned in

472
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: the word in the in the play. Hamilton's on the

473
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 1: list already, so no need to do that, But anything

474
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: else go ahead right to us. UH We're also on

475
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: Facebook at Facebook dot com slash miss in history and

476
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: on Twitter at miss in History. Are Tumbler is missed

477
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: in History dot tumbler dot com. We're also on Pentpriss

478
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: at penders dot com slash miss Industry. Our instagram is

479
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: missed in History as well. You can come to our

480
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: parents company's website, which is how stuff Works dot com.

481
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: Put the words spies into the search bar and you

482
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: will find how spies work little learn a little more

483
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: about what we talked about today. You can also come

484
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: to our website, which is missing history dot com. You

485
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: will find show notes. You will find an archive of

486
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: everything we have ever done. You will find I just

487
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: said show notes. Those are the ones for Holly Holly's

488
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: in my episodes, the one we have worked on, the

489
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 1: ones we have worked on together. So you can do

490
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: all that and a whole lot more at how stuff

491
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 1: works dot com or a miss in history dot com

492
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is

493
00:27:51,960 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com