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Speaker 1: Today's episode contained spoilers for the seventh episode, the huge

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Speaker 1: seventh episode of the second season of Severance.

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Speaker 2: Be warned.

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Speaker 1: Hello, and it is Jasconcepcion and I'm Rosie Night and

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Speaker 1: welcome back to x Revision of the podcast where we

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Speaker 1: dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.

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Speaker 1: We're coming you from my our podcast where we're bringing

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Speaker 1: you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Thursday, Wednesday, with

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Speaker 1: news on Saturday.

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Speaker 3: In today's episode, Oh baby, we're going to the testing

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Speaker 3: flow and it's gonna be terrible. We are talking Severance

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Speaker 3: two o seven, maybe one of the most powerful episodes

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Speaker 3: of TV over the year so far, also absolutely heartbreaking.

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Speaker 3: So we will be digging into that, all of our theories,

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Speaker 3: everything that we spotted that maybe you didn't, and obviously

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Speaker 3: you guys can tell us what you spotted in the discord.

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Speaker 3: Also quick reminder, I've been very excited to see everybody

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Speaker 3: jumping on our next book club title, which is The

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Speaker 3: Magician and the Alchemist's Gate from the Ted Chang short

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Speaker 3: story collection Exhalations Ed. This is a fave story of

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Speaker 3: mine and Jason's. It's also very popular within the discord,

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Speaker 3: so if you want to join the Discord chat about

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Speaker 3: book Club. Last note and remember you can listen to

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Speaker 3: our debut book Club episode about Dead Evil Borne again

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 1: Previously on sever And season two episode seven, Chicky Bardo,

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Speaker 1: which is the a stage of death according to the

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Speaker 1: ego Buddhist ego death the Buddhist belief system. We all

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Speaker 1: been on flashbacks some years ago. Mark and Jemma are

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Speaker 1: both working as teachers at a university or a college somewhere.

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Speaker 1: They meet at a blood drive, which we will talk about.

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Speaker 3: I say, you may notice something wrong about this picture.

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Speaker 1: And immediately one of the things that I think is

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Speaker 1: like really good about this show and really patient and

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Speaker 1: is not easy to do is the storytelling. Look how

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Speaker 1: good Mark and Jemma look. It's specifically Mark, what is

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Speaker 1: this telling you? Years of depression of grief have taken

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Speaker 1: a toll on Mark, Like.

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Speaker 3: He is like so confident here they're so yeah. I

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Speaker 3: mean Gemma also almost looks like a different person. She

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Speaker 3: looks the way that they made her up, the way

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Speaker 3: they and there is this instant chemistry and connection and

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Speaker 3: even the way that their arms are being you know,

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Speaker 3: drained for the for the blood drive. Means that they

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Speaker 3: have to hold hands in the middle to shake hands,

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Speaker 3: but it's more of an immediate intimate connection. It's it's

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Speaker 3: so great.

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Speaker 2: So she's great.

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Speaker 1: A paper about Tolstoy is the death of Ivan Ilyitch

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Speaker 1: and he's crating a paper about drug use in World

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Speaker 1: War One and they immediately hit it off. Elsewhere, we

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Speaker 1: cut to the Lumen testing floor, where we see in

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Speaker 1: the present Gemma or the present ish, We don't really

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Speaker 1: know the timeline right, but Gemma's getting her blood taken

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Speaker 1: by Sandra Bernhard.

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Speaker 3: Way just like throw it in my mind.

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Speaker 1: She's getting her blood taken by Sandra Bernhardt, and she's

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Speaker 1: living down here. She got a little apartment down on

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Speaker 1: the test floor, very prison like. And the nurse asks,

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Speaker 1: because it was clear that Jemma was thinking this flashback

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Speaker 1: is was Gemma's recollections. She was remembering this moment because

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Speaker 1: she's having her blood taken down here on the testing floor,

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Speaker 1: and she's remembering, Oh, yeah, that's how I met Mark,

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Speaker 1: Remember when we met at the blood drive.

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Speaker 2: And so the nurse asks, where'd you go? Just now?

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Speaker 1: And we realize that in this moment that we are

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Speaker 1: in the recollections Gema's recollections of Mark. This is important

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Speaker 1: the flashbacks and whose perspective the flashbacks take place in

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Speaker 1: is going to be important.

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Speaker 2: We will discuss.

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Speaker 1: We get another flashback and it's Mark and Jemma living together,

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Speaker 1: and it's very clear that they are happy, and again

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Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking stuff. We go to Mark's house in the present.

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Speaker 1: That flashback, by the way, I think is taking place

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Speaker 1: in Mark's dreaming.

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Speaker 3: As regarding it, this is kind of the ebb and

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Speaker 3: flow that makes this episode so interesting because it's starting

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Speaker 3: to make us ask questions about what can you remember,

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Speaker 3: what can you not remember? We are definitely, as we

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Speaker 3: were talking out in the group chat, we are definitely

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Speaker 3: in an eternal sunshine of the spotless mind type situation

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Speaker 3: when it comes to what is reliable who can remember

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Speaker 3: for sure? And yeah, I'm very interested to talk more

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Speaker 3: about whose recollections these are. And also if there's some

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Speaker 3: kind of situation where once you have been severed, there

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Speaker 3: is maybe like a hive mind element to certain parts,

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Speaker 3: if you have shared history with someone else, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think that's some really interesting stuff.

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Speaker 1: That's an interesting thing to think about. And I've been

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Speaker 1: wondering that myself.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Devin is freaking out because Mark's in a fucking coma

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Speaker 1: and has been, uh, you know, doing this reintegration process

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Speaker 1: without her knowing, and she's she's losing it.

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Speaker 2: Regaby's like, he just needs to rest.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna be okay, and Devin really doesn't believe it,

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Speaker 1: and she's like.

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Speaker 3: You're not allowed to talking about what are you talking about?

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Speaker 3: I don't know about this.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's Devin is like, you're not allowed

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Speaker 1: to do this anymore to my brother, and Regaby is like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is what he wants to do because this is

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Speaker 1: how he will get Gemma back, and Devin's like, we

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Speaker 1: don't even know if she's live, and She's like she's fucking.

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Speaker 3: And also, Devin, interestingly, I think we've kind of talked about,

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Speaker 3: like what's her purpose in the show, Like is she

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Speaker 3: an art? Has been a popular conversation in fandoms, but

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Speaker 3: I have to say she's an I don't think she's

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Speaker 3: an op. I think that she is as many of

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Speaker 3: these characters are morally gray, but here I was really believing, like, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is your brother, and you will legit kill this

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Speaker 3: woman if she ever fucks with him, like, I really

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Speaker 3: believe that, and also interestingly with Gaby says to her,

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Speaker 3: this is how you like, both of you get Gemma back,

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Speaker 3: and then we do start to understand that Devin and Gemma,

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Speaker 3: Mark's not the only one grieving. Let's put it that.

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Speaker 2: Way right correct.

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Speaker 1: On the test floor, the nurse measures Gemma's vitals, make sure.

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Speaker 1: She asks her, have you eaten? Have you done your calisthenics?

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Speaker 1: Have you done your reading? The calisthenics interestingly mirror the

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Speaker 1: kind of figures that we see on the cards, the

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Speaker 1: lumen cards that we saw in season one, we will

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Speaker 1: see in this episode. The nurse then asks, hey, what

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Speaker 1: do you if you were to be trapped in a landslide,

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Speaker 1: what would you be more afraid of? Suffocator and drowning?

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Speaker 1: She says drying drowning and she's holding like this little

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Speaker 1: woe lie detector or something, and the nurse reads the

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Speaker 1: read out and then they go off to visit the rooms.

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Speaker 2: Gem is like, how many rooms do I have? To say?

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Speaker 4: Six?

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Speaker 1: Jemma kind of like it is like a god size size.

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Speaker 1: At this she goes to her closet, puts on an

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Speaker 1: outfit that has been laid out for her that seems

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Speaker 1: to I have not gone deep on this, but the

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Speaker 1: outfits that she will wear seem to mirror a lot

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Speaker 1: of the outfits that we see the Egans, the the

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Speaker 1: mannequins of the Egans from the museum wearing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I also something I think that's really interesting about

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Speaker 3: this is like the bernout character. I was like, she

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Speaker 3: almost seems like she cares about Gemma as well, even

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Speaker 3: though she's not allowed to the idea of like checking

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Speaker 3: that she's eaten and exercised in all of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it does seem like they want the best test results,

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Speaker 3: but I think it feels almost as an acknowledgment of

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Speaker 3: like she knows what Gemma is about to go through,

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Speaker 3: and she's kind of checking in like are you best?

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Speaker 3: Can you do this? You know?

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Speaker 1: Not that if for Gobi used to work on the

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Speaker 1: test floor.

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Speaker 3: That would make a lot of sense. I mean, as

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Speaker 3: we'll see this, this becomes a very bleak episode that

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Speaker 3: tells you a little more about the way lumin does

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Speaker 3: not respect humans or brains or anything anything.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the nurse takes Gemma past a series of rooms.

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Speaker 1: There's various hallways with lots and lots and lots of rooms,

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Speaker 1: and the rooms are labeled with project names of projects

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Speaker 1: that we know the MDR crew has worked on in

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Speaker 1: season one in some of season two including Allentown, Cairns, Drainesville,

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Speaker 1: and on and on and on. Uh they go to

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Speaker 1: a room labeled Wellington. The nurse unlocks the door using

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Speaker 1: like a pomp pad that takes the nurse's blood, which

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Speaker 1: is interesting and real returning to this yet a lot

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Speaker 1: of blood. The inside the room, we see doctor Mauer,

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Speaker 1: who will come to be Gema's torture, and this made

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Speaker 1: me wonder if this is taking place two episodes ago

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Speaker 1: when we saw who we now know is doctor Mauer

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Speaker 1: picking up dental tools from a storeroom somewhere and then

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Speaker 1: going down the elevator and whistling that kind of sea

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Speaker 1: shanty tune that he was whistling when in this episode,

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Speaker 1: Jemma goes into the room, so the scenario is a

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Speaker 1: visit to the dentist. Maur asks Gemma to open up Gemma.

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Speaker 1: It's clear this version of Gemma in the room is

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Speaker 1: severed so that this personality only knows this room. I'm

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Speaker 1: always here crying.

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Speaker 3: Is that because you go, oh, you know, I was

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Speaker 3: here six you know. I was just here, you know,

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Speaker 3: a minute ago, and he's like, no, it's been six weeks.

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Speaker 3: Like they're not even honest, you know too, huh. I

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Speaker 3: think probably of all the things we've seen in severance

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Speaker 3: being an Innie who is just.

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Speaker 2: Office is the word.

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Speaker 3: That's how that's like a soul level evil.

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Speaker 1: I want to lightly push back on one thing you said,

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Speaker 1: I think they are weird. I was why. I was

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Speaker 1: like weirded out by the fact that Mauer is honest

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Speaker 1: weather he tells her it's been six weeks, so there

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Speaker 1: is for some reason they are leveling with the Innie

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Speaker 1: and letting them know that even though you have not

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Speaker 1: clocked that time has passed, because you only exist in

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Speaker 1: this room, time has passed.

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Speaker 2: Like the same thing in the Christmas thing.

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Speaker 1: In the Christmas scenario, he says, yeah, Christmas comes back

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Speaker 1: once a year.

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Speaker 3: Even though you think it's always Christmas.

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Speaker 1: It's almost as if they are trying to get these

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Speaker 1: innies used to the idea that you're going to be

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Speaker 1: missing time and you're going to only exist in here,

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Speaker 1: but there's things going on that you don't know about

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Speaker 1: and just accept it.

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Speaker 2: I found that very weird.

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Speaker 3: I do too, and then something I think is really

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Speaker 3: interesting too is the it's clear that Dr Mauer is

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Speaker 3: has feelings for Gemma like that starts to come across.

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Speaker 3: And maybe that's also why he's trying to add that

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Speaker 3: level of you know, inverted commas honesty with the different innings.

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Speaker 3: But obviously Gemma has no connection to him or them,

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Speaker 3: just these kind of night And it's crazy to me

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Speaker 3: as well, because I think, correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 3: Is this the first time that we've seen someone who

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Speaker 3: has multiple innies like five or six gema?

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Speaker 1: This is her first time that we know that we're

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Speaker 1: seeing it for Yes.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that's true. It could be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I like that that's a good way of putting it.

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Speaker 1: Outside the room. Gemma comes out, she remembers nothing of

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Speaker 1: the past two hours. We go back to Marrow, but

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Speaker 1: she has she has sore jaw. I think if she

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Speaker 1: just that the physical pain.

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Speaker 2: She's kind of like rubbing her draw when she comes

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Speaker 2: up and she rumors nothing.

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Speaker 1: Back at Mark's, Devin is like, Mark, come back, you know,

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Speaker 1: please wake up. She's freaking out. His eyes are moving.

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Speaker 1: We go into his memories. Now in the flashback, he

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Speaker 1: goes to Jemma's office and he brings her an ant

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Speaker 1: farm and he's like, because you said you like ants,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, no, I like plants.

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Speaker 2: And this is.

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Speaker 1: Clearly very early on in their relationship, and then we

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Speaker 1: get a montage, also clearly from Mark's perspective of their

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Speaker 1: life together. I noticed that in many of these flashbacks

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Speaker 1: they are working, but they break work. They interrupt each

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Speaker 1: other from work, and they're both happy to see each

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Speaker 1: other with that interruption. Mark has purchased a crib in

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Speaker 1: this flashback, and they're clearly planning a family. Gema's like

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Speaker 1: a crib who's gonna put together? And you're not much

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Speaker 1: of a handyman. Jema mentions and time passes.

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Speaker 3: Just quickly. I want to say, I felt like the

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Speaker 3: amptparm gift is like a very clever kind of nod

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Speaker 3: to the you know, the infinite layer of lumen that

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Speaker 3: we don't Oh yeah, really no, you know there's something.

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Speaker 3: There's definitely something there, and I love that she was like, well,

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Speaker 3: I don't like ants, but I love farms, so you

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Speaker 3: know you've got something right. But there's clearly there's so

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Speaker 3: much kind of illusion in this episode to Lumen, and

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Speaker 3: maybe the fact that these two were put together by Luhman.

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Speaker 3: We don't know, but there's there's a lot of strange

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Speaker 3: things occurring.

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Speaker 1: Yes, there's a dinner party at Mark and Jemma's house

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Speaker 1: with Devon and Ricken dn R are talking about a

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Speaker 1: recent trip to some mountains.

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Speaker 2: Ricken really enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: He's like putting himself forth as this like born and

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Speaker 1: bred outdoor adventurer, whereas Devon is like, you're crazy.

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Speaker 2: That was insane, like it was very dangerous.

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Speaker 1: And here notice we and in this conversation, I think

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Speaker 1: is one of the most obvious switchovers in perspective. As

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Speaker 1: Devon and Ricken and Mark are discussing the vacation, we

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Speaker 1: go to a little interaction between Gemma and Devon. We

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Speaker 1: hear Ricken saying, hey, Mark, like, I'd love to you

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Speaker 1: should come to the mountains. I'd love to spend more

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Speaker 1: time with you and get to know you more in

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Speaker 1: nature's splendor. And we see from Jemma's perspective her declining

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Speaker 1: wine that Devin is trying to pour from her.

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Speaker 2: And this is one.

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Speaker 1: Of the best examples of good writing in which a

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Speaker 1: character tells another character that they're pregnant without telling them

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Speaker 1: they are pregnant exactly.

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Speaker 3: And the emotional range that the two of them get

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Speaker 3: in this interaction is huge.

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Speaker 1: We angle on Jemma's eyes and the light goes from

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Speaker 1: cold to warm, and we realize now that time has passed,

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Speaker 1: she's in the shower and she's just miscarried.

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Speaker 2: Mark finds her in the shower.

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Speaker 1: The rain goes backwards, and I think there's another hand

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Speaker 1: over here to Mark's perspective because the rain goes backwards

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Speaker 1: and see market MDR from sometime last season when uh uh,

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Speaker 1: Miss Casey was working with them on the MDR floor.

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Speaker 1: And then we follow wires in the MDR floor up

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Speaker 1: somewhere through the Lumen building to a team of observers

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Speaker 1: who are observing the MDR team one person per MDR

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Speaker 1: team member Mark Kelly Dyllon and irving. Mister Drummond is

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Speaker 1: there observing the observers and doctor Mauer is with him.

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Speaker 1: Mister Drummond says the severance barriers are holding Mauer is like, yes,

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Speaker 1: the technology is working, it seems. Mauer admits he has

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Speaker 1: a fondness for Gemma, but Drummond tells him, like, at

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Speaker 1: the end of this year, you gonna have to give

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Speaker 1: her up. We learned that Gemma had previously attacked. Mauer says,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm fond of her, and she's fond of

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Speaker 1: me too, I think.

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Speaker 2: And then Drummond says.

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Speaker 1: Didn't she almost break your finger once? This, I think

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Speaker 1: is and I think we probably agree on this, right,

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Speaker 1: that this seems like a reference to a previous escape attempt.

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Speaker 3: Yes, right, definitely.

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Speaker 1: We go back to Lumen time unknown Gemma on the

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Speaker 1: test floor. She's dressed in a romper. Now we cut

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Speaker 1: to the outside world. It's a flashback Mark and Jemma

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Speaker 1: at a doctor's office. They're seeing a fertility specialist, and

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Speaker 1: we see that maur is there. He's one of the doctors.

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Speaker 1: As Gemma is filling I stop here. Yes, as many

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Speaker 1: are now noting, and as I dimly remembered, there's a

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Speaker 1: line in season one in which Devin says to Mark, hey,

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Speaker 1: are you still seeing that therapist with the creepy mustache.

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Speaker 1: That's got to be mass.

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Speaker 3: Got to be him, absolutely, and not just that in

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Speaker 3: the first room. I mean in the first scene of

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Speaker 3: this where we see Gemma and Mark meet, the testing

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Speaker 3: equipment has like lumin logos on it, So I think

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Speaker 3: ye for whatever reason, these two have been in Luman's

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Speaker 3: kind of suckle for a while.

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Speaker 1: They picked them up, probably at the blood drive, and

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Speaker 1: then started to really drill down, and clearly they are

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Speaker 1: involved in events in ways that we don't know, much

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Speaker 1: more significantly than we know, and I think that the

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Speaker 1: reason it's notable. Then, in a lot of these test

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Speaker 1: room scenarios, there are different things that seem to mirror

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Speaker 1: events from Gemma and Mark's life that sometimes Gemma on

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Speaker 1: the test floor would not have known about, like a

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Speaker 1: comment by Mark or a particular thought that he had.

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Speaker 1: For instance, we'll see an escape attempt like doctor Mauer disparishes,

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Speaker 1: the death of even Iliach, the book that Gemma was

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Speaker 1: grading when she met Mark.

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Speaker 2: There's all these.

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Speaker 1: Little things, and I think it's from some of it,

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Speaker 1: at least from these therapy sessions or other ways that

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Speaker 1: Luhmann has been collecting information about Mark, and anyway, in

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Speaker 1: Gemma's test floor space splace space, we're in her recollections

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Speaker 1: now she's remembering the past. We see fast images of

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Speaker 1: someone molding.

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Speaker 3: Clay m HM into like a tree, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And various winter scenes, and then we end up on

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Speaker 1: Mark putting clothes away in a hallway. This is from

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Speaker 1: Jemma's perspective, I think, because she then asks Mark, hey,

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Speaker 1: help me, it's time to inject the drugs. She's nervous

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Speaker 1: about it. He's like, don't worry. Like he's very charming

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Speaker 1: about it. It's like, we're gonna get that little girl.

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Speaker 1: She's out there waiting for us.

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Speaker 3: And then he and jem who we've you know, maybe

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Speaker 3: we've already met her in Lumen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Back on the test floor, maur is examining Gemma I

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Speaker 1: think in her apartment or in a room adjacent to

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Speaker 1: her apartment. Various scans are being taken in real time,

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Speaker 1: and the observers and the observation floor are looking at

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Speaker 1: the scans. We see that Jemma is indeed chipped. There's

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Speaker 1: a chip in her head, although it seems to me

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Speaker 1: like the chip looks different than the way that we

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Speaker 1: see in Mark's bigger or something right. Maur is asking

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Speaker 1: Jema how many rooms have you visited and what if

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Speaker 1: anything she remembers from those rooms. She doesn't remember anything,

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Speaker 1: just kind of like lingering physical pain from different places.

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Speaker 1: He asks if when she exited the rooms, did you

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Speaker 1: feel any of the four tempers, you know, woe and

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Speaker 1: despair whatever. The only room she has not been to,

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Speaker 1: she says, is cold. There's only one room I haven't

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Speaker 1: been to.

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Speaker 2: It's cold Harbor.

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Speaker 1: And he is interested in the way that that she

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Speaker 1: recalls this and knows this, and when she goes there,

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Speaker 1: she asked, what will happen when I go there? He says,

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Speaker 1: you will see the world again. In the world will

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Speaker 1: see you. And she's like, oh, that means I get

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Speaker 1: to see Mark again. And Mauer is like, super evasive.

365
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Speaker 1: Then about the thing. Yeah, Jemma gets mad. She's like, well,

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Speaker 1: you just fucking speak like a normal person, like the

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Speaker 1: fat We do a fade cut to a flashback to

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Speaker 1: the outside world, Gemma in the bathroom feeling sad and

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Speaker 1: Marks so clearly her recollections right, and Mark calling her

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Speaker 1: from the kitchen telling.

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Speaker 2: Her that the coffee is ready.

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Speaker 1: I think that this fade cut is important because now

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Speaker 1: we're entering the era of the flashbacks, in which a

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Speaker 1: distance is growing between Mark and Gemma related to their

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Speaker 1: inability to get pregnant and the struggles around that something

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people can empathize with. We

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Speaker 1: cut to daytime at Mark's in the present. Regabi is like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: Mark's fine. Now, he just needs to sleep and he's

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Speaker 1: going to be okay.

380
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Speaker 2: He's just journeying. We see him dreaming.

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00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,439
Speaker 1: Regabi insists that whatever this procedure is working and we

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Speaker 1: just need to give time. Devin is like, hey, you

383
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,159
Speaker 1: know the any cottage where the people who've just been

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00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: severed become their inniase, and and Gaby's like, yeah, Demona

385
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: Birthing retreat, what about it? And she's like, well, there's

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Speaker 1: this lady we know who worked there, Harmony Cabell, Like

387
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Speaker 1: why don't we contact her and get her help with this?

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Speaker 2: And Regaby's like are you fucking Like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, She's like she and she says something very interesting,

390
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Speaker 3: Why would you do that? She says she was raised

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Speaker 3: by them, she's she says something else first, soldier.

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00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, she says something else first, which is like, these

393
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: are two different things, like that's severing, this is integration,

394
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Speaker 1: Like this is yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then you're right.

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Speaker 1: She's like no, Cobell is tried and true, like she

397
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 1: was she's raised in this. She's a she says, she's

398
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Speaker 1: a soldier. And Devin, who I'm kind of mad at

399
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Speaker 1: in this episode, though she's doing understandable stuff, is like

400
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,239
Speaker 1: while I'm calling her anyway, and Goby's like, okay, then

401
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 1: I'm done by yeah, exactly where Andy's And Devon's like,

402
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 1: wait what you can't leave me with this, and Goby's like, yes,

403
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: I'm leaving, by the way, don't call that woman bye,

404
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: and she leaves and then Mark that advice, take that advice,

405
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 1: and then Mark, well, Devon is like hesitating. She may

406
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 1: be about to call Cobel, but then Mark begins to

407
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 1: kind of like mutter.

408
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 2: The title to the episode chick i Bardo chick Diabardo.

409
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: We cut two flashback Mark's recollections. Chick i Bardo is,

410
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:39,959
Speaker 1: according to Jemma, the the her analysis of one of

411
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 1: those like personality test cards from Lumen and it shows

412
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: a man doing what appears to be calistenics but also

413
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 1: like maybe pushing back another version of himself. And Jemma says,

414
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: it's ego death. It's a guy like fighting against himself.

415
00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: And this came in the mail for her, Okay, you know,

416
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: like probably identified by the blood tests and other testing

417
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: that they have been doing, and she needs to interpret

418
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: these Varius drowings. Mark is like why are wasting your

419
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: time with this kind of asshole? Mark future Mdr Mark

420
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Speaker 1: a little bit, and Jemma's like, don't.

421
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:17,479
Speaker 2: Why are you?

422
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 4: Why are you?

423
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Speaker 1: Like, why are you criticizing this thing that I'm enjoying.

424
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying this and you know, don't tell me how

425
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Speaker 1: to feel about this. And he says like, I don't

426
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: have any idea how you're feeling, so like, what is it?

427
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 1: And Jemma is like, basically says like I'm exhausted, I'm

428
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Speaker 1: beat up from trying to conceive in this whole struggle

429
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Speaker 1: around conception, and so Mark.

430
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Speaker 2: Is like, okay, let's just stop then.

431
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: Now time passes and it seems like now here's another handoff.

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Speaker 1: Right to cut to Gemma waking up at Lumen. She

433
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Speaker 1: brushes her teeth, she makes her bed, She's in her

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00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: little apartment. She gets dressed in her outfit. It to

435
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 1: go to one of the rooms, and this time the

436
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: room is a harrowing plane ride with severe turbulence. Maur

437
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: is the flight attendant and he's like getting all thrown around.

438
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 3: I think it's really funny because he's like trying to

439
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 3: reassure her again that kind of care for her coming.

440
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 3: He's like, don't worry, it's normal, and he's getting like

441
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 3: float flung around. Also another horrible room to be stuck in,

442
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 3: and interesting that you think, like dentists' flights, they are

443
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 3: almost testing her on like really obvious and kind of

444
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 3: well known human fears that a lot of people share.

445
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 3: What's your biggest fear going on an aeroplane, the airplane clashing,

446
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 3: what's your biggest far going to the dentist. These are

447
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 3: things that are maybe like a baseline of kind of

448
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 3: how humans in general who have these fears would react.

449
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 3: I think it's very interesting.

450
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: I think it's very interesting as well. We cut to

451
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: the observers. Maer notes that Marcus stuck at ninety six

452
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: percent refinement on Cold Harbor, holding up their progress. Drummond

453
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: is like the nosebleed set us back. Drummond tells Maur

454
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: that again, when they're done, you're gonna have to say

455
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: good bye to Gemma. Maur accepts this, and they both

456
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: kind of say for cure, Gemma makes a weird little meal.

457
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 2: That looks like Star Wars food.

458
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, even the food, the food that they put

459
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 3: on her table at when she's in the airplane is

460
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 3: also weird food, Like it's very weird. It's almost like

461
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 3: you can't there's something about lumen where they can't like

462
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 3: replicate this very normal thing that people do, which is

463
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 3: eat food that is appetizing instead of all the food

464
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 3: is slightly off, slightly weird, very star.

465
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: Wars Drummond, continuing the conversation, wants to know why Maur

466
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 1: is continuing to wear his little Christmas sweat, and we will,

467
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: as we will see soon, it's because in that particular

468
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: room scenario, maur and Emma are a couple, so he

469
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: probably is quite fond of that little scenario. We cut

470
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: to Gemma and her lumin apartment putting on a wedding ring.

471
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: We see her and she puts on like a kind

472
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: of fifties kind of outfit, and then we see her

473
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: in this Christmas room. She is writing out various thank

474
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: you cards, which he expressed in one of the flashbacks,

475
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: the thing she hates doing, yeah, various Christmas thank you

476
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: cards to people for Christmas gifts. So many in fact,

477
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: there's a pile of them that her hand is like

478
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: aching and shaking, and she's thanking of mister Tisdale for

479
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: his gift of a growder, but it's actually, as Maur corrects,

480
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: a d grouder.

481
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 2: Now.

482
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: This is as many have noted online. This If you

483
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: watch the miscarriage scene, there's a shot towards the end

484
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 1: where the camera lingers on the tile and the grouding

485
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: which does look like a little overdone, like it needs

486
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: to be scraped out. If you've ever done any work

487
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: in the bathroom, you know what I mean, see you,

488
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: it would require a degrounder.

489
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: Again, seemingly a reference to their life. They seem to know.

490
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: All of these scenarios seem to contain little details from

491
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 1: their life. She's done with the card mowers, like you're done,

492
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: you don't have to do anymore, and then they go

493
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: to leave. They're going somewhere in this little scenario, and

494
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: Mauer says I love you and basically pressures jem into

495
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: saying because she doesn't say it back, and then she

496
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: says it. This also mirroring the last time Mark and

497
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: Jemma saw each other.

498
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 2: As we will see we go, She goes back to

499
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 2: her apartment.

500
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: She's listening to Billie Holliday. She recalls we go flashback

501
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: now to Mark, very angry in a fury disassembling the

502
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: crib that he had made, and very clearly now there's

503
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: a space between them. There's an emotional something, there's they're arguing.

504
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: There's something between them now tremendous madness, frustration, et cetera.

505
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: They are growing apart clearly. Now here is where I

506
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:13,719
Speaker 1: will say, Okay, so let's first recap it.

507
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: So okay, yeah, yeah, she's in her.

508
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: Apartment, she can barely eat. Maour comes in and asks,

509
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: how are you feeling? Same old thing?

510
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: Like the rooms?

511
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: Did they cause you to feel anything? Do you remember

512
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: anything from them? And it's clear that Gemma is coming

513
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: to a decision, and she's as she is coming to

514
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: a decision. In the flashback, if you watch it back,

515
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: there's a moment where something comes into her eyes as

516
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: Mark is destroying this crib, and here she appears to

517
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: be coming to a decision as well.

518
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: She is like she asks.

519
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: About like Mark and when she's going to see him,

520
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: and Mars like Mark is remarried and has a daughter.

521
00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 1: Now it's been many years since you were gone, and

522
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: and sorry about that. Then he goes to the bookshelf

523
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: and he picks off Tolstoy's death of Ivonne Ilitch and

524
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: starts to disparage. It is like, let me guess spoiler alert,

525
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: like he fucking he dies at the end, which again

526
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: mirrors exactly kind of what Mark said when he was

527
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: looking at her paper. She flips out naturally, hits More

528
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: over the head with a chair and goes to flee.

529
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: She's running through the hallways. She gets to the elevator,

530
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: the nurses in pursuit. She gets into the elevator and

531
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: it goes up, but at the top it's the severed

532
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: floor and she boom reverts to Miss Casey. We cut

533
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: two Mark's recollections of the last time they saw each other.

534
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: Gemma is going somewhere to charades I think with Devin

535
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: and Ricken or somebody she doesn't say, but a charade somewhere,

536
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: and she's playing it off, but it's clear that she

537
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: doesn't think Mark is gonna come, and she doesn't want

538
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: Mark to come. She's like, are you sure, gosh? Then

539
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: she says, did you get that de Nalli thing I

540
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: sent you? We don't know what this is, but it

541
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: might be lumin information right, paperwork right to some indoctrination thing.

542
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: And she's like, I'll be back at ten. She says

543
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: I love you. Mark is so engrossed in whatever he's

544
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: doing that he doesn't respond. She says I love you,

545
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: and then he's like, oh, yeah, I love you too.

546
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: We cut two.

547
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: Miltchik now meets Miss Casey, who is like trying to

548
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: wander out of the dark hallway at the at the

549
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: end of the elevator to get outside.

550
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: She's very confused.

551
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: Miss Casey clearly thinks that she has an AUDI that

552
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: is in the outside world, so this is interesting. But

553
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: she's clear that there's lling.

554
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 3: Her is kind of saying like, don't worry like you out.

555
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: She doesn't find Yeah, she doesn't.

556
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 3: She can sense it.

557
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: She can sense it right because of the same panic

558
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: that she entered the elevator in fuck Meltchick.

559
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 3: Now it's fuck Meltchick at this.

560
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: We then cut immediately to Mark's flashback his perspective, hours

561
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: are passing. Cops show up to tell her Gemma is dead.

562
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: We cut back to Gemma in this like hell like

563
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: existence the nurse facinger. We cut back to Mark. He's

564
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: looking at the door. The cops are approaching, and now

565
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: they do a very interesting edit where it's a match.

566
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: It's like a match edit left side of the screen

567
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: is Mark looking.

568
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 2: At the cops.

569
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: Right side of the screen is Gemma looking at the nurse,

570
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: and they are looking across this space at each other,

571
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: almost like a mirror image. And then Mark wakes up.

572
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: Devin is relieved. We see a quick light of Jemma's

573
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: eyes as I guess he's remembering that he knows Missus

574
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: his wife. He's seen her thereon Lumen is miss Casey,

575
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: and then he begins to cry. Let's go to an

576
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: ad break to process all this information and then discuss

577
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: what we.

578
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 4: Think is happening after this. Okay, we're back, all right.

579
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: A lot of things to talk about here, and first

580
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: let's talk about what we know for sure. We now

581
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: know what that Gemma Won is alive, which we knew,

582
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: but we know for a fact that she's alive now

583
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: because we've not seen her in season.

584
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 3: Two and she has multiple anies.

585
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: We now know that they can sever people multiple times,

586
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: and that this might be more common than we think.

587
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: We now know what the MDR team is doing. They

588
00:32:53,320 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: are refining scenarios so that after a severed person experiences

589
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: these things, they will be essentially bulletproof. On the other side,

590
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: no stimuli no emotions, no feelings from no memories from

591
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: that event will reach the person on the other side

592
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: of the event that we know. Now here's what we

593
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: don't know. What is cold harbor? I don't know, and

594
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: a lot of other things.

595
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so let's talk about cold harbor, because Jason,

596
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: you have a good theory.

597
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: I have a theory about cold horror. Might be wrong.

598
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and when I was watching this episode, I also

599
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: think I have a theory that's probably wrong, but I'm

600
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 3: interested to talk about it. So Jason, go for it.

601
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: I will first lay out my theory. So each of

602
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: these rooms, and there are myriad rooms, right, are like

603
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: negative things, and they and it seems like they have

604
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: to do specific rooms for specific negative type of events

605
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: that correspond to these four tempers that they are trying

606
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: to tamp down. Right now, I think cold harbor, or like,

607
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: what's the worst negative thing you can experience?

608
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: I guess near death.

609
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: Maybe like it could be that she experience of Jo's.

610
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: I think, what's the worst thing you can experience is

611
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: like losing someone you love?

612
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 2: Right?

613
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: And I think what's worse than losing someone you love?

614
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: What's even worse than that is losing someone you love

615
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: and it's your fault somehow. Yes, So I think that

616
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: Jemma did make a decision to go with I don't

617
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: think she knew what it would all entail, but I

618
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: do think she slipped away that night to go with Luman.

619
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: And I think that the editing the way that they

620
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: do these kind of mirror flashbacks, specifically towards the end,

621
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: where if you watch, it appears that Gemma is watching

622
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: Mark's grief as he is talking to these cops and

623
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 1: experiencing this. She's like watching all of this happen to him.

624
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: And then when she wake when he wakes up, she's

625
00:34:54,760 --> 00:35:00,240
Speaker 1: almost smiling. I think that's because she understands that she's

626
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: The decision she made caused Mark a lot of pain.

627
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: And so I wonder if Cold Harbor isn't the room

628
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: in which they are testing to see if all of

629
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: her memories, feelings, emotions, senses.

630
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: Of Mark can be completely killed off.

631
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,439
Speaker 1: What I mean is, isn't could Cold Harbor not be

632
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: the scenario in which maur As himself says Mark has

633
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: moved on, he's remarried, it's been years, he has a daughter.

634
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: And by the way, this fucking stupid book from the

635
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: from the time when you guys met that's this book

636
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: is fucking dumb as.

637
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 3: Shit is a dumb book too.

638
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if she accepts that, right, and if she

639
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: is just like okay, then Cold Harbor will have succeeded.

640
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 2: That's my theory.

641
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: And now there's here in the drawbacks to this, yes,

642
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 1: the drawbacks of the theory. Or she says she's never

643
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: been in the room and Maur agrees that she's never

644
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: been in the room, My pushback would be one, why

645
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: do we don't believe anything? Maur says, right, yeah, lying

646
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: to her in this scene, he's telling her Mark has

647
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: moved on and is and it's been years and he

648
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: has a daughter now, all of which we know is untrue.

649
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: So there's no reason for him to believe that. If

650
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: he's telling her you've never been in Cold Harbor, that

651
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: we should accept his truth truth? Why should we not

652
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: believe her? Probably because she wouldn't remember it if they

653
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: had designed.

654
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 3: Maybe I was gonna say, this could be this could

655
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: be this severing is that. Yeah, they could set out

656
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 3: so she doesn't remember coming out the room. There's no

657
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 3: reason why that couldn't be an any for that too, Okay,

658
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 3: so my theory is similar to that, but because of

659
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 3: what they said, where they're like, you know the world,

660
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 3: you will see the world, and the world will see you.

661
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 3: I I wonder if cold harbor is literally you getting

662
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 3: to go back into the world. But the reason it's

663
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 3: called cold harbor is because you are essentially disconnected emotionally

664
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 3: for everything very B two K like the ice box

665
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 3: where my heart used to be like.

666
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, your honaries, you're.

667
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 3: Exactly You're somebody who all these things that have happened

668
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 3: to you you can now leave be in the real world.

669
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 3: You'll never reveal Lumen, you'll never remember any of the things,

670
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 3: but you are you know, fixed or cured or whatever

671
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 3: they're trying to test for. Because it seems to me

672
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 3: like the sale aspect of like what Lumen would do,

673
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 3: the way they could monetize it is that if you

674
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 3: lose a child, you can forget, if you lose a partner,

675
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 3: if you don't get the job, you want something. I

676
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 3: also want to mention because it was in the recap

677
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 3: and I thought this was so interesting, so I went

678
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 3: back to watch the episode when they included in the

679
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 3: recap as well as in the opening sequence, the title sequence.

680
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 3: There's so many babies this time. I thought it was

681
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 3: really interesting that they included the conversation Devin had with Harmony,

682
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: where Devin's like, so, could you get severed so you

683
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 3: don't remember you're pregnant because being pregnant is like a

684
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 3: truly horrific experience, like a body horror experience. I thought

685
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 3: that was very interesting. So I wonder if what Luman's

686
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 3: trying to do is essentially make severance something that anyone

687
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 3: who has the money can do to not have to

688
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 3: live through, essentially creating like a servant cloth with them.

689
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, so here's what I noticed in this episode.

690
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 5: A lot where you get severed can be a door. Yes, right,

691
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 5: So the elevator has felt like this very big change, right,

692
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 5: you're dropping floors, there's multiple like you, we don't understand,

693
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 5: there may not even be science behind it, but it

694
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 5: has felt so specific. But now the fact that they're like,

695
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 5: not only do we have clauses that allow you to

696
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 5: pop out of your severed self at any point in

697
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 5: time by a chip, also an archway might just transform

698
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 5: you into an entirely different person. And if you look

699
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 5: at the way this show has had like a commentary

700
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 5: on modern day workforce. This is a very terrifying thought

701
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 5: of like literally checking yourself at the door, and also

702
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 5: beyond that, like who do you sell this kind of

703
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 5: technology to. It's not your average person, and what can

704
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 5: you possibly do with this technology of if anyone crosses

705
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 5: this threshold, they are now essentially a severed entity.

706
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 3: That's very terrifying, Okay, Joelle. Also, you have another theory

707
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 3: about kind of a big pharma aspect that Luman could

708
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,439
Speaker 3: be doing, So will you talk a little bit about that?

709
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 2: Okay.

710
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 5: So I've been thinking a lot about Luhmann as a

711
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 5: pharmaceutical corporation. All of the elements of stress we saw

712
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 5: testing were either actual medical procedures or they were like

713
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 5: psychological triggers. Those as mentioned earlier, can sort of like

714
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 5: exist in anyone And I think it's such a if

715
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 5: you think about what you want to cure, you know,

716
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 5: as a medical company, typically what you're trying to do

717
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 5: is prolonged life or make better, but not fully cure,

718
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 5: like the goals to keep people coming back and purchasing things.

719
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 5: In this idea that we have a cure for literally

720
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 5: whatever might stress you out, you know, from pregnancy, two.

721
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 5: I mean embraces, like.

722
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 3: Where's the line I would actually I would.

723
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 5: Get don't need to be saying I have.

724
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 3: A fantastic dentist. Now shout out Dr mart I love you.

725
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 3: She's done a great job. But before I met her,

726
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 3: I would have got severed to go to the dentist.

727
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 3: I would make I'm sorry, I would make my Inny

728
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 3: do it. I hated it so much, I had so

729
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 3: much dental trauma. Like I would, I would do it,

730
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 3: you know, so I do think.

731
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,240
Speaker 1: And Joel, I think you're right. I think clearly Luman

732
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: is hoping to go wide with this. Right, they're like

733
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,720
Speaker 1: consumer they want to take this to the consumer market,

734
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: not just like the corporate workforce market, because frankly, like

735
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: that's not a lot of money if you're just marketing

736
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: to corporations and their employees. And that made me think

737
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: that I think probably what listen, brain surgery is brain surgery.

738
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: Like if you go to the consumer market, then and

739
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: I have to and I like your product what it does,

740
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: but I have to get a chip and plant in

741
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: my head. I'm not I'm probably not doing it. I

742
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: think that their end goal is severance without a chip. Yes,

743
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 1: I think whatever. I don't know if it's that's cold

744
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 1: Harbor or whatever, but I think what they are working

745
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: on is the ability to like do these switches, to

746
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 1: enact these switches without having to drill in your head

747
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: and put a thing in there.

748
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 3: Because also as well, I would say something I think

749
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 3: that is really resonant about this is we have seen,

750
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 3: you know, people who've chosen to go to get the

751
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: Elon musk chimp in their head because they feel like

752
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 3: it will make them be able to communicate better if

753
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 3: they are in a situation where it's not easy for

754
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 3: them to communicate. Also, you know, so Amazon has those

755
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 3: chips that people put into their hand to paper stuff

756
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 3: that you can see at Whole Foods now. So I

757
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: think it feels very resonant this idea of like how

758
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 3: much would you sacrifice or take on in order to

759
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 3: live the ultimate life of you know, convenience, you don't

760
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 3: have to experience any of the tough things in life, like,

761
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 3: so what would you do for that? Also, I do

762
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 3: want to say I do think I think the Big

763
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 3: Farmer thing is very likely. I also think if you

764
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 3: think about most this is very different to most Hollywood movies.

765
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 3: But I think about you know, Jurassic World or like

766
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 3: The Man Curing Candidate or all these different kind of movies.

767
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 3: One of the things that science always wants to do

768
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 3: it or companies like this always want to do, is

769
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 3: like create weapons and create soldiers and create people. I

770
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 3: think the idea of some kind of inny army and

771
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 3: the idea that you could sell this to the military

772
00:42:54,520 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 3: and essentially create entire you know, generations of soldiers who

773
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 3: have no I who have no remembering. But the innies

774
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 3: are constantly twenty four seven basically able to fight. And

775
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 3: I do want to say how atable workforce skare exactly

776
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 3: and they can't argue, you know. Also, I'm thinking back

777
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 3: to Jason's really interesting idea of severance and the lumin

778
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 3: being a space where people can be rehabilitated. It definitely

779
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 3: has me thinking of like incarcerated people and the way

780
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 3: that they are used as an exploited labor force. I

781
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 3: think there's so much interesting stuff here. I also do

782
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 3: just want to shout out our discord mod legend, Heidi,

783
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 3: who did basically check me in the x ray Vision

784
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 3: Goggles channel and was like, Babe, I don't I think

785
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 3: they're just lying about the time to mess with the innies,

786
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 3: like I don't necessarily think it's a timey wymy thing.

787
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 3: And I was like, Okay, great, cool, But I do

788
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 3: still think there's this notion of we don't know how

789
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 3: the innies experienced time. We don't know if everyone else

790
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 3: in the team has separate innies, Like how well, Gemma,

791
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 3: that's as you are.

792
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 2: I want to this is do we talk about this last.

793
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: Week that I think that Milchik is a permit any

794
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 1: I think that Milchick is an inny contract inny who

795
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: has been allowed to basically jail break his audi, which

796
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: is why he is so obsessed with and dedicated to

797
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: personal growth air quotes in the ideology of Kre and

798
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: the egans like, because I think that he has to

799
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: follow those protocols or else just erase him and he's

800
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: his AUDI again. I think that's why he's such a

801
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: loyal employee for them. And I think it's possible that

802
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: like Natalie and some of the others, maybe mister Drummond,

803
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: are like that too. They are innies who were trained

804
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:00,439
Speaker 1: in the ideology of Kre and Lumen and when they've

805
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 1: displayed enough loyalty or then allowed to become permit and

806
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: he's who work doing the most hardcore shit for Lumen.

807
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 5: I have a different but similar thought process on Miltchik,

808
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 5: which is that whatever Spacel Culvert was raised in, that

809
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 5: he was there too, like years later behind her, a

810
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 5: freshman to her senior sort of situation. But I to me,

811
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 5: the more I think about Milchick, the more it feels

812
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 5: like he's literally waking up. Like we go back to

813
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 5: the like portrait thing, like if you're if you think

814
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 5: about Lumen as a cult space where you're brought up

815
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 5: in it, inundated in it, adhering to it, and then

816
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 5: you reach a space where you are very suddenly othered

817
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 5: and also your job is threatened by a child he

818
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 5: started to like, so he feels like he's waking up

819
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:03,240
Speaker 5: to uh, the real world while still have like working

820
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 5: through his like brainwashing conditioning space, which I find really interesting.

821
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 5: We need to figure out where did.

822
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 3: She why did she die? Also, Joelle, I like this.

823
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 3: I like this as a as a point to jump

824
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 3: on because something I have been interested in is like,

825
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 3: could it be that people like Cobel and Miltchick and

826
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 3: maybe Gemma honestly, is it like there are levels of

827
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 3: lumen where you go through a certain amount as an

828
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 3: inny to basically and when they think that you are

829
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 3: loyal enough, you can basically earn your OUTI status back.

830
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,959
Speaker 3: And I think that is why Miltchik keeps talking about

831
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 3: needing to grow and he's on a deadline because he

832
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 3: wants to be able to be an OUTI. Like how

833
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 3: Cobel you know, had this out e life. I'm just

834
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 3: interested to see where it goes, because I think something

835
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 3: that's so majestic about this show is you will watch

836
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 3: an episode like this and be completely moved and just

837
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 3: scary heartbroken, but you still are engaged in the mystery.

838
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 3: It's so good. It's so hard to balance that. And

839
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 3: now you know, yes, yes, yes, talk about.

840
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 5: Who like winter overlay on all of the show. And

841
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:23,479
Speaker 5: then when we get these flashback scenes which are so

842
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 5: beautifully shot, and I think Ben Stiller shot most of these.

843
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 5: The cinematographer of the series directed this episode.

844
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 3: And when we see how the mark go through fall down,

845
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 3: go through the wires, that was all done practically, no cg.

846
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 3: That was something she actually put together. She said it

847
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 3: was it was the hardest. I think she called it

848
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 3: like a diversion or a side quest, but she said

849
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 3: it was like the hardest thing that they had to

850
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 3: do was work out how to do that shot all

851
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,439
Speaker 3: in one and then go down the wires. I mean,

852
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 3: truly an unbelievable talent.

853
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 5: The effort is entirely visible. It's so beautiful and you

854
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 5: get this other fresh air where we're seeing Gemma among

855
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 5: the plants, like very ear representation of spring. This idea

856
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 5: that if she did choose to go down into lumin

857
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 5: like it is this her version of descending into hell,

858
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 5: which brings back to your point, Rosie, which like can

859
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 5: she earn her way out? And if she does, are

860
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,720
Speaker 5: they now? Like? And even to sort of Jason's idea

861
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 5: of like what if Milchick's a permanent any sort of

862
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 5: on deadline trying to earn something? Does you have all

863
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 5: these people being persephonees yep, Like actually to break out

864
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 5: of hell is really intriguing.

865
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 3: Well, definitely, like the moment where Milchick stops missus Casey

866
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 3: slash Gemma and tries that's very posephone, like don't look back, babe,

867
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 3: just walk past him, like just try and do it.

868
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 3: See what happens. You don't have to just listen to him.

869
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, it's heartbreaking.

870
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: I wonder like.

871
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: Letting Gemma out as any or audi would require that

872
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: everybody who knew her would forget the fuck she was right, So,

873
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: whether she's whatever, no matter what personality is dominant when

874
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: she leaves the Women building. So either she can never

875
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: leave right truly, or they need to figure out a

876
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: way where they can make people forget specific people ever

877
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: fucking exist.

878
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 5: I think when the tests are over, they just eliminate Gema,

879
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 5: like the conversation of like, you're gonna have to say

880
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 5: goodbye to her once we complete this test. I think

881
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 5: some folks get to go out because either they don't

882
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 5: have connections or because some their group of people think

883
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 5: they've agreed to this.

884
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 3: Uh.

885
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 5: But I think Gemma was sort of tested for on

886
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 5: a much more intense level than everybody else, and she

887
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 5: is definitely not going to get out.

888
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 2: One more thing. I want one more thing.

889
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask, so Mark is there specifically, because

890
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: it seems like all the MDR crew that are working

891
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: on things specific to tempers that they personally are dealing

892
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: with on the outside, right, Mark is dealing with grief.

893
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:07,800
Speaker 1: Dylan is dealing with an unhappy marriage. Irving is question mark.

894
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: Helly is dealing with potentially the fact that she's being

895
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: kept out of her father's graces and is not part

896
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: of the board, which I think she clearly thinks she

897
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: deserves to.

898
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,240
Speaker 2: Be just a thing to note.

899
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: I don't know where that goes, but I think it's

900
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: interesting because it leads me to wonder, like, why are

901
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: the what is the importance of the rest of them?

902
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 2: They must be Mark.

903
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,240
Speaker 1: Is clearly more special, but like there is also something

904
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: to the there's a reason the other ones are there

905
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 1: as well, that is waiting to be unwrapped.

906
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 3: This would be incredibly bleak but real. I you know,

907
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 3: someone like Irving might have been gone in there to

908
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 3: get seven because he didn't want to feel the feelings

909
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 3: he had romantically for like other men. You don't know

910
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:59,240
Speaker 3: the way that this kind of heartbreaking play is gonna

911
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 3: kind of work itself out. And I'm definitely again, I

912
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 3: just got to come in here at the last minute

913
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,879
Speaker 3: after saying something very serious and say, you know, when

914
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 3: she tells Mark like, oh, did you get the Denali thing?

915
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 3: Obviously that feels like a reference to Ricken and the

916
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 3: Mountain climbing. She'd also mentioned Mount Everest use this real

917
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 3: name within this show, so you think, oh, maybe they're

918
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 3: going to try it out because like they can't have

919
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 3: a baby, so they got it. But just saying I'm

920
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 3: bringing it back for the fans of the anagrams, it's

921
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 3: a it's denial. You know, Denali is a real place,

922
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 3: but in the context the severance where they love to

923
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 3: do a funny anagram to get us talking, it's denial.

924
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 3: You know. These could actually be the different levels that

925
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 3: you have to go through as part of lumin I'm

926
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 3: just very I want to know where it's gonna go. Okay,

927
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 3: we got three episodes left, Yeah, okay, what are your

928
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 3: big swing, craziest pitch theories for what we're going to

929
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 3: see in the last three episode.

930
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 5: I think we have to get a Patricia arcad what

931
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 5: she's doing. It's gotta be the next episode too, because

932
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 5: it can't be the penultimate, Like the penultimate needs to

933
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 5: answer whatever the major question is for this season, which

934
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 5: I think might be like can Mark safely or successfully integrating?

935
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 5: Can he accomplish reintegration without offering himself and so you

936
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 5: need you need a whole episode for that where he's

937
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 5: really pushing the boundaries of what he's been doing so far.

938
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 5: So I really hope that next episode it's like I'm

939
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 5: hoping it's almost a bottle episode. So we delicated her

940
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 5: where we're getting a little bit of information on her

941
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 5: background and a lot more information on what she's actively

942
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 5: doing right now. I also think we're going to see

943
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 5: a swing in Milchick. I can't tell which direction, if

944
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 5: he descends further into his authoritarian personality or if we

945
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,720
Speaker 5: see a swing against it where he's like, you fuck

946
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 5: this company. I think that Luhman has set up folks

947
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 5: that keep Mark in line to continue doing work at

948
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 5: a regular pace, and now they've become friends and family,

949
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,959
Speaker 5: and they're really trying to strike like continue the balance

950
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 5: either like he has got five percent left, just keep

951
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 5: them happy, keep everything at peace, so we can get

952
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 5: this thing across the line and move forward. And I

953
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 5: think we're gonna see you like at one percent, Mark

954
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 5: stalls out and then lumin descended a chaos where Luman's like,

955
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 5: oh god, it's this tragedy, this big thing we've set up,

956
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 5: it's not working, And hopefully it brings the big guy

957
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 5: boss man down to the low.

958
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 3: And let's say, I wonder if this is my really

959
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 3: crazy out there theory. I do think there's something to

960
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 3: the idea that Gemma was tricked into going to Lumen

961
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,399
Speaker 3: as a way to be like, we can help your

962
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 3: with a baby, like that's what's ruining your life. I

963
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 3: do wonder if there's some kind of like you know,

964
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 3: we've all seen those demonic possession movies like the Fantastic

965
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 3: First Omen that we talked about a lot, obviously Immacula,

966
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 3: where somebody is having a baby that has a greater

967
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 3: person wears his baby stuff like that. It's usually a

968
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 3: satanic thing. But is there a world where the reason

969
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 3: that they're testing Gemma so deeply and making sure she

970
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 3: doesn't remember these things is because they're going to try

971
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 3: and have her like siah Ka egan to be brought

972
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 3: back to life. I think she, I was wondering. I

973
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 3: think she may have had the next leader of you know, Luhman,

974
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 3: one of the egans, and the reason that they're now

975
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 3: testing her is being like, just let's just make sure

976
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 3: she doubly doesn't know anything that goes on in these

977
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 3: rooms because Cordarba that could also be the truth of

978
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 3: that is that they're you know, that's where they're making

979
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 3: babies Palpatine style, very creepy, scary stuff. So I think

980
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 3: that I want to see a Mark and Gemma reconnection.

981
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 3: I think they'll probably save that for the finale, but

982
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 3: for now, I think we need to know over the

983
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 3: next two episodes, like tell us more about what Luman's doing,

984
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 3: and can you do it in a way that teases

985
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 3: what's behind the curtain without doing the four reveal that

986
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 3: can oft be often kind of take away from the

987
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 3: power of the show.

988
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: Gosh, my crazy theory is the one I laid out

989
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: that Cold Harbor is the room in wish Doctor Martos

990
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: Jemma that Mark has moved on.

991
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 2: I believe that.

992
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:23,399
Speaker 1: At one hundred percent, she would have no reaction, and

993
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: if this theory is correct, and that that is the

994
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: reason why she has to go back into these rooms

995
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: like it, it doesn't it. It seems interesting to me

996
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:41,240
Speaker 1: that she's clearly been in some of these various rooms

997
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: multiple times, right why.

998
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like this is just how the every

999
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 3: day is there just making her Yeah, these horrible, you know,

1000
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 3: kind of pressure tests.

1001
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: I guess it would be that, and then I would

1002
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: I Gosh, I agree with you that I believe that

1003
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 1: we're going to see Cobel again. We're going to get

1004
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: more on that side of things. I think we're going to,

1005
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, whatever this idea of using Ricken is, whether

1006
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: it's to twist his philosophy and ideology and basically defang

1007
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: person that they think could be like a potentially powerful

1008
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: critic of them on the outside, or whether they really

1009
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: do see a value in his self help stuff for Innis.

1010
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: I think that will be I think that will be

1011
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: part of it, And I think, Gosh, I think we

1012
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:37,359
Speaker 1: will see Mark try to go undercover inside lumin as

1013
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: a reintegrated Mark.

1014
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 3: I was wondering that too, And also so much of

1015
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 3: the opening sequence is like Mark, who is in his

1016
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 3: suit pulling you know, the inny or the OUTI, depending

1017
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 3: which way you see it, who's in the prison suit

1018
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 3: and they kind of constantly pulling each other back and forth.

1019
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 3: So I think you're right. I think a reintegrated Mark

1020
00:56:58,280 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 3: is going to go in there to try and find

1021
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 3: jem Ah. And how will that end up, I don't know,

1022
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 3: but I can't wait to see it. This is just

1023
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 3: such a great show.

1024
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: It's really really great on the next few episodes of

1025
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 1: X ray Vision, We're diving into more stuff. Joelle, thank

1026
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. Joe, that's it for

1027
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: this episode.

1028
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 2: Thanks for Lizzie.

1029
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie

1030
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

1031
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Korfman.

1032
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 2: Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.

1033
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wag.

1034
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

1035
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kauffman.

1036
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi.

1037
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 3: Our discord moderate, though