WEBVTT - 5/2/25: Walz Gets Ousted, Trump Judge Blocks Deportations, Rand Paul Trashes Tariffs & MORE! 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:01.639 Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here. 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:05.280 Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:07.880 and we are so excited about what that means for 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:08.800 the future of this show. 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:10.800 This is the only place where you can find honest 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.320 perspectives from the left and the right that simply does 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:14.720 not exist anywhere else. 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.120 So if that is something that's important to you, please 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.680 go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:22.840 you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.640 and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:27.600 We need your help to build the future of independent 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:29.960 news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:31.160 dot com. 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:34.360 Happy Friday, All, how's everybody doing this morning? 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:35.560 Great, We're on you. 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:36.520 Glad to see you guys. 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.400 Good to say you guys do A bunch of stuff 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:41.760 that was breaking right after our show yesterday, A bunch 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.960 of moves. Mike Waltz out at NSA and Ryan, I 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.040 think you have a scoop with regard to some of 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:49.040 his last acts in that position. 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.240 Correct, Yeah, thanks to the tech. 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:51.640 Yeah. 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.240 People thought that he was caught using signal on the 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.720 day that he was fired for right, is poor signal use, 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.240 But it turns out he was using an. 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:03.880 Israeli tech firm's version of Signal. 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:06.320 Oh, that sounds even better because. 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.200 That tech firm, that tech firm kind of makes a 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.679 copy of everybody's messages so you could keep it so 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.040 it might comply with record keeping rules in the federal government. 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:17.959 But it also means that the Israeli tech firm would 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.240 plausibly who and which is made up of former Israeli 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.640 intel officials, would have access to these potentially would have 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.000 access to all of these messages set by our national 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:28.720 security team. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.200 Right? Is this because people saw the Reuter's picture of 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:34.840 him in the cabinet meeting. Was he using the app? 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:37.000 Then that was the Israeli Tech Firms app? 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:37.560 Yeah? 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.480 Yeah, And if you if you look close enough, and 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:42.679 we have a story over at drop site that people 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:44.520 can read if you look close enough at it, it's 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:45.760 not the Signal app. 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:47.480 It's this Israelly Tech Firms app. 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:49.720 All right, So we'll get into that. 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.160 We got more details on the Ukraine minerals deal Emily 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:53.480 and I covered the outlines of it. 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:53.960 ESGM. 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:56.920 Curious to get Ryan's take on that and where we 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.840 are with regard to ending hopefully one day the Ukraine 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.560 Russia War. We had this also, we kind of previewed 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.160 yesterday Emily, a Trump appointed judge has now blocked his 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.160 invocation of the Alien Enemies Act, and we were just 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.400 saying yesterday that we expected that to come at some point, 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:15.840 and then lo and behold, basically after we finished the show, 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.600 you get exactly that ruling. We've got also a bunch 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:21.360 of stuff that's going to be in the premium section, 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:25.200 including a really interesting clip of Tucker and Matt Walshin, 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.440 Tucker kind of calling him out with regard to Israel, 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.120 sort of casually calling him out on that, and a 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.480 really horrific new development there drones attacking and aid flotilla 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:39.560 that was headed to Gaza. Also Trump weigh in on 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.679 virgins because that's something we all wanted, and Mark Zuckerberg 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:46.760 wanting all of us to have more robot friends. So 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:48.959 things are going good, guys, Things are going good. 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.520 And maybe questions as well if we have time for them. 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.920 Yeah, So we put on a post for premium subscribers. 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:56.799 We're going to take a few questions at the end 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:00.160 from the comments you guys submitted. So again, you know, 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:01.480 we're going to do a bunch of stuff for the 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:04.440 free show, and then we'll have some bonus content for 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:06.959 premium subscribers, including those questions. If you guys want to 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.720 become a premium subscriber, go to Breakingpoints dot com and 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.440 appreciate all of you guys for making the show possible. 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.239 You know, an expansion at this moment of economic uncertainty 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:19.960 is a bit of a risk, but you guys make 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.440 it so that we're able to do it. So shall 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.399 we go ahead and dive in here, guys? Sue all right, 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:30.440 So Mike Waltz out at nssay he is being given 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:35.240 the consolation prize of you an ambassador, which the administration 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.680 is trying to spin is like, oh, that's definitely not 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.760 a demotion. That's like totally the same level of prestige 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:45.200 and import as an essay director. But I'm going to 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.080 pull up this this element, but first, just guys weigh 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.240 in on that piece, which is kind of preposterous Nicky 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:51.080 Haley's old job. 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.120 In other words, Yeah, jd Vance has tried to say, 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:55.800 you can plausibly make it. I think you said you 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.000 can make a good faith argument that it's a promotion, 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:00.800 which is a really funny way of saying, well, if 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.480 you kind of stretch and squint. You can see how 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.960 maybe this would look kind of like a promotion. Of course, 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.480 it's not. The amount of power that you wield as 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.440 NSA is significantly more than the amount of power you 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:16.640 wield as a UN ambassador, where you're largely a figurehead, 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.279 an important figurehead. Nonetheless, something to be said for that. 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.840 But I think it was Trump's way of not completely 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:29.480 capitulating to the media firestorm over Walls while also you know, 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.239 getting him out of his his tight inner circle. 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.240 Yeah, go ahead, Ryan, Right, Yeah, the reporting was all 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.760 that Trump did not want to look like he was 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:44.719 the chaos agent of Trump won. He really regretted, you know, 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.880 all the people that he fired within you know, the 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:52.359 first several even weeks of his administration. And so he 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.800 was like, I'm not firing this guy under pressure because 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:56.799 I don't want to. I don't want to do that again. 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.360 So he waited and then sort of didn't fire him, 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:01.000 just moved him, but did fire him. 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.880 So yeah, I want to say, yeah, well, no, I 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.440 mean there's something like from just a last time around, 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.159 you could get someone fired if you were inside the 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.359 administration with strategic leaks, and it created just from like 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:19.080 a management perspective, an impossible situation because people were constantly 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.120 they realized the power of their leaking. They could sideline people. 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.240 It was just like straight up hunger games and so. 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:27.599 Be done by Laura Lumer. 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.480 Yes, now you have they've consolidated the firing power. 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:34.760 Yes, so it's a much more efficient process. 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:36.960 Let me go ahead play this because we do have 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.359 video of like, this is this is really this is 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.640 really cool. We have video of him like getting the 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:47.200 news he's gonna board Air Force one and then someone 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.920 comes over to him and is like, yeah, you're you're 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:51.520 not going to be on this trip, and then he's 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.240 like escorted off the tarmac. Let me go ahead and 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:56.680 play this for you guys, so we can we can 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:00.160 see the moment that it all went down and well 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:05.920 traveled marine touch two point oh but a little too 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:06.480 early for that. 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:07.120 Here we go. 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.520 That's his figure. He does not get on Air Force one. 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.160 It's only about a ten minute flight. So it's extremely 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.960 odd to take the helicopter flight and then not actually 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:17.840 go on the trip. 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:19.479 I was told he was not supposed to. 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.520 Go on the trip, and so people raised questions about 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.360 what this moment meant. So we've been asking White House 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.839 officials about it, and essentially just got to a point 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.039 where he didn't have a lot of confidence, not of 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.839 the President, not of his senior staff. And he was told, 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.640 I was told earlier this week that his time as 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:36.680 the National Security Advisor had come to an end and 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:38.400 it was time for him to leave. And now we 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.400 are told that he will be departing and so will 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:41.200 his end life. 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:46.200 So he took so he took Marine one to drink 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.800 Base Andrews. So what they're saying and didn't get on 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.560 Air Force one. That's brutal. That's mean girls type stuff. 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:56.080 Also, it's so obnoxious that all of these guys take 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.640 helicopters to Andrews Like. 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.279 It's like five, we're right there. 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:03.599 Take take an uber, guys. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.880 I mean, in fairness, the traffic in DC can be 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:06.360 really bad. 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.280 It's true, that's true. Yeah, but he can he can 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:10.200 work from his phone. 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:11.680 So what's it? What's it matter? 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.840 But yes, to like get turned around on that is 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.320 I mean, you sign up to work for Trump, you 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:23.480 know you are most likely it's like life, You're signing 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.200 up for a brutal end. It's just going to come 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.640 a lot faster and it's going to be even more brutal. 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:32.360 And you know what do you get he got How 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:33.760 many scaramouchies did he get? 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.920 Maybe eight? But now he has to be un ambassador. 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:39.320 So that'll be cool, that's not bad. 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.280 Somebody you can go to restaurants and he'll be fine. 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:47.240 Imagine being a least staphonic right now. Seriously, who okay, 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.920 just what people recall she was supposed to be you 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.760 an ambassador. She's in Congress, she's supposed to be you 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.320 an ambassador. But they picked uh, well, they pulled Matt Gates. 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.680 You know, they were going to make him a g 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.120 and then he ends up pulling himself out of contention. 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:02.800 But that's one House seat. Then you've got Mike. 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:04.960 Waltz is pulled, and then isn't there one more that 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.720 they pulled out of the House into the administration And 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.400 they basically with Stefani, I'm sorry, I know you're in 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:12.560 like a R plus twenty district, but we're not all 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.160 that confident that you're going to be able to we're 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:15.800 going to be able to put a Republican in that 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.200 seat after you, so you have to stay. So now 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.560 she not only has to deal with the like the 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:22.880 sting of she thought she was going to be you ambassador, 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.960 but she's not, but now so also the degradation of 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.240 like them using this as some sort of a consolation 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.800 prize for Mike Waltz was her colleague in the House 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.240 as well, like that's that's a rough hand that one. 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.600 And she gave up her leadership post to accept this 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.160 nomination to be you on ambassador, and so now she's 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.800 back in Congress and it's sort of put them at 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.079 a loss because they're trying to figure out how to 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.040 let Alista find it come back into Congress heat it's 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.080 a leadership post or in a post that makes her 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.839 feel like she's leadership adjacent. So it's been a really 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:57.280 brutal few months for her. She's she's sacrificed for the 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.400 cause and is not getting rewarded for it. 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:02.520 And then the other piece of this, so Waltz is 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.640 over to the the UN and then the person who 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.800 at least for now is replacing him is Marco Rubio, 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.679 who already is wearing a bunch of different hats, so 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:17.720 he is already obviously Secretary of State, now Usaid Administrator, 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.280 US archivist. I didn't even I didn't even know this one. 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.679 Apparently he's also the head of the US Archives and 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.440 now also National Security Advisor, So I don't know if 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.520 he's going to stay in definitely as NSA, but that's 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:33.720 where who has been filled in right now, So you know, 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:37.599 to the the ideological piece, Rubio is also a ha. 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.000 I mean, Waltz is a hawk. That's, you know, part 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:41.880 of why Lumer and others wanted him out of there. 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.240 I certainly wanted him out of there as well. Rubio 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.280 is not really an improvement, though he's reconstructed. 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.920 Though Emily give us the pro Rubio case. 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:52.719 Well, I was going to say, Waltz is an unreconstructed 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:56.000 neo kan who packages himself as a reconstructed neokon. But 0:09:56.240 --> 0:10:00.520 Rubio is sincerely a reconstructed neokon. Not that he is. 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:02.640 To be very clear, he does not have the foreign 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:07.960 policy of someone like JD. Vance or Tucker Carlson. He's 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:14.120 still fairly hawkish against China, but he's definitely shifted significantly 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:18.800 in very sincere ways. He's it's but the question is, 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.079 you know, does that do your ambitions also allow you 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.960 to be co opted by the unreconstructed conservatives who do 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.400 still work in these high level positions and the foreign 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.800 policy establishment, because you also kind of came in with 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.280 the residue of new Conservatism. So it's not like we're 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.040 putting Tucker Carlson in these positions. 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.000 To be very clear, my impression of Rubio is he's 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.320 reconstructed is just like a total and complete Trump Sika fan. 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.400 Like whatever Trump's ideology is, to say, that's what margat 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:49.200 Rubio's ideology is going to be that. I mean, we 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.959 saw that on full display at that grotesque North Korea 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:56.600 style cabinet meeting this week, which is just I mean, really, 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.679 this is one of the key characteristics of Trump two 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:02.640 point zero. Not to say it wasn't there in Trump 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:06.400 one point zero, but the levels of just dear leader, 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:10.640 you know, boot licking are off the charts. They have 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.720 reached grotesque new levels. And you know to that point too. 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:16.160 I don't know if you guys saw the news that 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.800 Trump is planning on throwing himself this giant military parade 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:20.480 in DC. 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:21.560 For his birthday. 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.559 I mean, this is this shit is incredibly disturbing to me, 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:26.360 Like just disturbing. 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.760 Isn't it also like the anniversary of the army or 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:30.920 something like that. I have to pull the article back up. 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.240 It's an ap story and it's it happens the fall 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.960 on his birthday. But it's also like the army is 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:38.439 that they. 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.000 Always finds something that falls on your birthday. 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:42.559 Every day is a holiday? Is a holiday? 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:43.360 Very true. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:48.360 All right, let's let's get to this signal Israeli signal story. Ryan, 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:49.640 I don't know if you could pull up the drop 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:50.960 site thing, but let me first pull up. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:52.320 Let me pull up this real quick. 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.800 So here's the image that this is pulled from that 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.600 cabinet meeting, the North Korea cabinet meeting, where this is 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.520 Mike Waltz. I mean, you can fully read a text 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.520 here from the Vice President of the United States. You 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.839 can see Tulsi Gabbard's in there, you can see wit Cough, 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.760 you can see Rubio. I'm not sure who that other 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.920 the one above Gabbard is. Maybe Emily knows, but in 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:15.640 any case, everyone was looking at this and like, oh 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.520 my god, you know here he is using signal in 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.880 the middle of the cabinet meeting, and you can read 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.120 some of the text messages just from the photography. And 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.360 then this guy points out, actually, no, it appears they're 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.880 using it as rarely firm's archive wrapper app called tele Message. 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.600 Hence the TM signal in the pin pop up means 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.000 they're attempting to archive to comply with federal records laws. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.120 But I'm skeptical of security implications. And then Ryan, why 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:39.480 don't you pick up with your reporting? 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.600 Yeah, so it popped up because because of this thing 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.920 right here, whereas verify your TM SGNL PIN. I remember 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:49.320 I saw that too, and I was like, that's not 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.280 that's as you I'm sure you guys noticed too, that's 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:56.319 not Signal, Like you know, Signal says verify your signal pin. 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:01.160 So this is a firm called tele Message and they 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.200 have this software called Signal Capture. So Signal is is 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:09.199 open source, but you need a license to use it. 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:14.040 Signal would not confirm that they had given us a 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.080 license or that that they had given this israelly firm 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.080 a license. But let's let me find this quote. We 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.960 did get a quote from them where they say we 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:27.120 cannot guarantee the privacy or security properties of unofficial versions 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.960 of Signal. So this is an unofficial version of Signal. 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:36.199 Like basically, what it's doing is using the signal base. 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.880 So the messages should be secure, uh, you know, end 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.720 to end. But then it makes a copy of them 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:44.800 and it puts it somewhere and we don't know where. 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:47.880 We don't is it is it putting the copy in 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.320 some White House server? Is it putting it in some 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.880 server that this is really firm controls but then licenses 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:55.480 back to the to the White House. 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.040 Uh, this was something that was put together on the fly. 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:05.200 You had Carolyn Levitt say recently that the administration was 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:10.040 working to solve the problem of transparency and of record 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.319 keeping because you know, under the record Keeping Act, you're 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:17.600 required to keep you know, official communications between between members 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.080 and signal disappears messages. So this seems to be the 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:25.920 answer to what Caroline Levitt was saying was the solution 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.640 that they were coming up with. But okay, that's a 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.720 it's a good thing that you would do that. But 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:34.960 because they slapped it together so quickly, they just went 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:36.880 out and got this israelly firm. 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.800 And so the firm is just completely stocked. 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.720 Its top two its top two officials are former Israeli 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.560 intelligence officials. A lot of you know, and a lot 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.160 of the engineers and other people who work for. It 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.160 also came out of Israeli intelligence, and the kind of 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:02.320 profile of the the people that work there is similar 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.160 to all of the Israeli spyware and surveillance companies. 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:06.400 And I'll just read this part. 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.600 Tech professionals have moved between companies like Telemessage and some 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.000 of the leading Israeli spyware firms. For example, a Loan Fallaw, 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:17.360 a technical support manager at Telemessage until twenty twenty one, 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.880 left the company a joint NSO Group. According to his 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.920 LinkedIn profile, NSO Group is the one that does Pegasus. 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:28.920 Pegasus is the no click penetration software. Will you don't 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.320 even have to click on anything, and it will get 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:35.160 into your get into your phone. The US has alternately, 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.640 like if supported it and even tried to sanction it 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.400 at times because it's so dangerous. Another employee joined Telemessage 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.320 last year after a stint at Celebrate, maker of hardware 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.960 and software widely used by law enforcement to extract data 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:48.800 from smartphones. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:53.480 So, and the thing with Pegasus is all you need 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:57.080 to know is the person's phone number. Right, And another 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.200 thing we learned about was it. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.720 Walter heggs hesth but probably also well probably I. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:06.080 Mean that their numbers were just like freely available online, 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.560 easily obtainable. So I sort of assumed that the Israelis 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.120 and probably a bunch of other foreign nations as well, 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.680 already had access to all of these all of these messages, 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:21.040 because yeah, that that Pegasus program allows you just to 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.360 be able to get into someone's phone and all you 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.560 need to know is the phone number, which is terrifying. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.440 Although if you if you have your phone on lockdown 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.479 mode and if there aren't any new exploits, it's difficult. 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:37.120 You know, pegasust requires your phone either to like you 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.560 have not been updated, you know, since the latest hack, 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:43.960 and especially if you have it on lockdown mode, pegasusts 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.040 can't really get in. And also apparently it costs something 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:50.680 like a million dollars a shot. It's extremely expensive. So, 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.600 like it reminds me of who was at Chris Rock 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.120 who was saying, we don't need gun control, we need 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:58.200 bullet control, Like make the bullets you know, cost twenty 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.840 thousand dollars and you're going to reduce crime. And so 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.639 if it costs a million dollars to fire off a 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.160 hacking attempt at say hag Seth, you're gonna be careful 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.360 about how many times you do that. Whereas if Mike 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.360 Watas and Haseth and all these others who were using 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.879 Signal just went to the app store and downrote, downloaded 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.119 this Israeli app boom like they're in. 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:21.920 Well, Ryan, do we have an indication of when they 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.160 did that? Is, do we know that it happened after 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.399 Signal game or could it? Is it plausible that they 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.200 were already using this and are they using both versions 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.919 of Signal? Because I'm wondering how contacts work, Like the 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:36.120 Jeffrey Goldberg thing, how he just get quote unquote sucked 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:40.240 in the reporting is that it came straight from Waltz's contact, 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:46.000 where like Apple Intelligence had saved Goldberg's phone number because 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.399 his aid sent it, and when he was going to 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:52.840 save his aid's number, it sucked in Goldberg's number. So 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.760 I'm just wondering, like what the what that might mean. 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:57.959 I mean, we don't know when they started using it. 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.000 It would stand to reason that they started using it 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.520 after they got busted using regular Signal, and and we're told, hey, 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.560 f yi, this is a this is a violation of 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.040 the Record Keeping Act. So we need we need to 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.280 figure out a solution, and so then they're then they're like, okay, well, 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.200 what kind of app can we get that uses Signal 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.119 as its base but also makes a copy. And the 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:26.440 way that Signal is vulnerable is the exact way that 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.760 Jeffrey Goldberg got in there user error, uh you know, 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:34.399 user error, and the device itself, like, because it's end 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.760 to end encrypted, you can't get in unless you're in 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.399 the person's device where they accidentally send you something. So 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.560 what this app does is it creates extra vulnerabilities because 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.720 it's taking the data, the messages that are on Mike 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:51.480 Waltz's phone and copying them onto another device somewhere, like 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.439 we don't know where, like some serve for somewhere. So 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.600 then now you have two points of vulnerability where a 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.399 hacker could get in, or an intelligence company again in 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.879 if the intelligence officials have access to that separate that 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:08.600 second server, because they set it up, you know, through 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.879 this bywear farm, you know, or through this Israeli tech farm, 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.159 then they would just be able to read right into it. 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:18.280 And this is really low hanging fruit. But I just 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.320 want to say you can see in that picture that 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.280 you guys use and drop site from Reuters he has 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.200 a reporters behind him. So he's sitting at the table 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.080 and he is openly on his signal. He's not like 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.639 covering the screen. He doesn't have a screen protector. He 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.000 has a message from the Vice President of the United 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.080 States up on his screen, including also Marco Rubio. He 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.000 has a call from Telsea Gabbart that just came in. 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.160 But there is a message that you can read from 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.720 jd Vance something about his counterpart. We don't know where, 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:47.560 We don't have all of the context. But if you 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.040 are a reporter sitting behind him. There are a lot 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.920 of foreign reporters, by the way, that are in the 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.520 White House press pool, and so it is just low 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.800 hanging fruit, but so enormously stupid for him to be 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.840 at a cabinet meeting with the press directly behind his shoulder. 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.800 Men have long lens cameras. Yeah, of course, but like 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:12.040 also they're standing five feet behind you. I cannot wrap 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:13.359 my head around the stupidity of voice. 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.000 Last point on this, if people think that I'm being 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:21.280 unfair and suggesting that Israel might actually have the motivation 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:24.520 to spy on the United States, there's a paragraph in 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.280 the story that sums it up well. In nineteen ninety eight, 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.359 Israel was identified by the National Counter Intelligence Center to 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:33.199 be on the Department of Energy Sensitive Country List. In 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.919 a two thousand report, NCIIC listed Israel as one of 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.359 the quote most active collectors of intelligence against the private 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:44.560 sector unquote. In twenty nineteen, the US government determined that 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:49.160 Israel had most likely planted stingray surveillance devices that mimics 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.600 cell phone towers around the White House, if you remember 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.439 that scandal, intending to spy on President Donald Trump in 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.919 his top aids. According to a Politico report, Israel denied 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:02.440 those allegations with their in mind with many other stories 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:03.960 that we've heard from decades. 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.479 We know, we know that they have great interest in 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.680 what we're going to do visa vi Ran, so they 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:13.520 have every incentive to know what you know. Pete hagg 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:15.639 Saith and Mike Waltz and all of these other characters 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.240 are saying to each other in signal, I mean, to 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.239 be honest with you, I'm a little surprised that they 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.600 reacted at all to the revelation that, like, hey, using 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.240 signal like this is actually illegal because you are not 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:29.719 complying with Foyer requirements. I'm actually a little bit shocked 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:33.000 that they cared at all about that, and we're't just like, yeah, 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:33.520 we're just. 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:35.200 Going to keep doing it. We really want there for 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:36.920 you basically, you know. 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:43.560 So here Spencer, Yeah, just to go back to the 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.800 Laura Lumer piece of this. You know, Emily, what do 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.479 we know about or Ryan either one of you? What 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:52.960 do we know about her involvement? Because we know she 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.280 went to the White House the other a couple of 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:59.480 weeks back, and she got some other officials fired, but 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:01.719 not Mike Waltz. And also, by the way, it was 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.080 what his like cheep of staff or his like top 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:06.480 eight also was shown the door here and Walts of 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:08.399 course to be technically correct, being moved over to U 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:12.560 an ambassador book anyway, and she had indicated she had 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.119 some video that was going to be very damaging to 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.439 Waltz as well. So I mean, what do we know 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.320 about her involvement? I did see an Axios report that 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:24.280 also said that people just kind of didn't like Waltz, 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:28.960 like outside of an ideological bassist like Jade Vance had 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:31.320 pulled him aside on the Greenland trip and was trying 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:33.479 to explain to him, you have to work better with people. 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:37.000 Apparently he treated Susie Wilds poorly, which seems like about 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:39.399 the dumbest thing you could possibly do. 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:43.240 Doing right, So it's about as dumb as using signal 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:45.520 to talk to the Vice president front of reporters. 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:48.320 Front of reporters, right, so really tech firm version of signal. 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:51.720 I feel like there was a coalescing, a sort of 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:56.199 horseshoe between an ideological distaste for Mike Waltz and just 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:58.920 a this guy's an idiot, he doesn't know what he's doing, 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:00.719 and we don't like him and we don't want him 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:01.480 around anymore. 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:04.960 Yeah, bear in mind, this is the National Security Advisor, 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:08.600 so he's like, can't even protect his own security, let 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:11.720 alone the nation's security as national security advisor. But yes, 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:14.560 there's reporting that Susie wils thought he had been quote 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:18.359 too big for his breeches. And so I assume when 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:20.439 the President of the United States is taking meetings with 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:24.160 Laura Lumer, who is floating the possibility of some deeply 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:27.240 damaging video, the guy has already embarrassed the administration had 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:30.720 the weakest appearance on primetime Fox News that you could 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:34.359 possibly conjure, and he was already he came into the 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:38.480 administration with a massive trust deficit with people that are 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.440 in the more realist foreign policy circles, the like America 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:45.680 First MAGA. Foreign policy circles have always been suspicious of 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:48.600 Mike Waltz and definitely of the people he surrounds himself with. 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:51.600 So it's not insignificant that Laura Lumer in that White 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.840 House meeting seems to have named Alex Wong, who was 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:58.440 a top advisor to Mike Waltz, who was actually out 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:02.840 the door yesterday, somebody who does have Now Laura Lumer 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:07.560 is constantly invoking that he's Chinese and invokes his wife's 0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:10.919 ties to the foreign policy establishment. So that's sort of 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:15.879 in the air about, you know, the conversation, or it's 0:24:16.080 --> 0:24:18.920 part of the conversation that's been had about Alex Wog. 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:22.800 I have no idea what the validity of all of 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:25.600 the accusations against him are, but his pedigree is from 0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:29.280 the foreign policy establishment, and that's exactly why people have 0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:32.160 not always trusted Mike Waltz. And Ryan you actually might 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:33.840 even know more about the lumour of it all. 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:36.920 She said she would come on the show next week 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:39.280 so we can ask her then. But yeah, she she 0:24:39.760 --> 0:24:44.040 she was hitting Alex Wong with like really not even 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:48.800 veiled kind of you know, like going after his Chinese 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:51.680 ethnicity and saying he was like had like secret links 0:24:51.680 --> 0:24:52.800 to the CCP and like. 0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:55.800 A little much. 0:24:57.480 --> 0:24:59.800 So we can ask her about that next week looking forward. 0:24:59.840 --> 0:25:01.120 But yes, she came in. 0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:03.960 So how I suspect you have secret links to the IRA? 0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:08.040 They could, That's why we had. 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:11.960 To Lumer's credit, she came in to the Oval office 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:17.560 with Mike Waltz present and ripped him to shreds, like 0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:23.720 in front of him. And now he's fired like that, 0:25:23.760 --> 0:25:26.640 you get like tip of the hat to Lumer for that. 0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:31.160 I mean, I mean remember during the campaign, Susie Wilds 0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:35.680 had Lumor kicked off the campaign plane before she had 0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:39.199 been with Trump before the first debate, and then after 0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:42.919 that they Susie Wiles said, you cannot be around this 0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:48.040 woman anymore. So when you have the the partnership between 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:53.040 Lumor and Susie Wiles, they come together to you know, 0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:54.840 to get you out of there, then I think you're 0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:58.320 probably you're probably done unstable combination. 0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:01.040 I'm gonna guess what if she'strategically brought. 0:26:00.880 --> 0:26:03.840 Lumer back, and I think there's no question, there's no 0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:05.679 question that is exactly what happened. 0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:06.480 Amazing. 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:10.199 You do not f with Susie Wilds Amazing, Like are 0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:14.679 you crazy? Like yees, she absolutely ushered him in, ushered 0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:17.879 her in and was like go to town, Laura. 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:21.040 They said he treated her like she was a staffer 0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:23.840 to him and which also I mean to me. 0:26:24.160 --> 0:26:27.800 I'll show you what a stafford is thirty minutes in 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:29.000 the Oval with Laura Lumer. 0:26:29.320 --> 0:26:31.359 Yeah, like, we'll see how this goes for you. 0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:37.080 Yes, I wanted to get to this Ukraine minerals deal 0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:40.480 that has now been signed. We now have more details 0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:42.840 than yesterday when Emily and I were talking about it. 0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.080 Plus I wanted to get Ryan's reaction to this. So 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:49.879 you guys, remember this minerals deal was sort of Zelensky 0:26:49.920 --> 0:26:52.560 had this ideal, Lindsey Graham had this idea, and there 0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:55.919 were some Trumpeline billionaires who also had this idea, basically 0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:59.920 a way to pitch a transactional relationship to Trump visa 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:04.040 the Ukraine that would keep him invested in the conflict. 0:27:04.520 --> 0:27:07.800 And this deal was subject to you know, this was 0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:10.800 what Zelenski had come to the US for before when 0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:12.760 they had that big blow up in the Oval Office. 0:27:13.080 --> 0:27:15.960 And now some of the details here have changed. It's 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:19.639 actually become much more favorable towards Ukraine. It's still basically like, 0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:21.919 you know, a lot of economic exploitation, but it's not 0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:26.479 quite as exploitative as the original deal had been. And 0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:28.840 so we've got a threat here from Michael Tracy, who 0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:31.639 read all the details and has a breakdown here. He 0:27:31.680 --> 0:27:33.480 says the text the minerals deal that was signed yesterday 0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:36.480 is substantially different from earlier drafts. For one, it says 0:27:36.520 --> 0:27:39.840 that future US military assistants to Ukraine, not past assistants, 0:27:40.119 --> 0:27:43.840 will constitute capital contributions to the newly established Joint Investment Fund. 0:27:44.200 --> 0:27:46.439 This can now be presented as the US in some 0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:49.600 sense getting quote unquote paid for continuing to armed Ukraine, 0:27:49.640 --> 0:27:52.199 which could be a useful political argument for continuing to 0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:55.359 armed Ukraine. But with a more profitable deal. He goes on, 0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:58.800 the agreement contemplates that Ukraine could or will receive reparations 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:02.160 for the invasion from Russia. This makeup as news to Russia. Yeah, 0:28:02.240 --> 0:28:04.720 good luck, but that one compared to pass drafts US 0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:07.879 ownership of Ukraine's physical infrastructure, it pears to have been 0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:10.639 watered down with legal lease, but the US receives fifty 0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:13.240 percent of the revenues from a large variety of natural resources, 0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:16.320 including oil and natural gas. The agreement is purported to 0:28:16.400 --> 0:28:19.760 strengthen the strategic partnership between the US and Ukraine, establish 0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:22.320 a long term strategic alignment between the US and Ukraine, 0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:26.120 including support for quote Ukraine's security, And that was kind 0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:29.919 of the idea here, is that by having US investment 0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:34.960 in Ukrainian minerals and US capitalists profiting off of Ukrainian minerals, 0:28:35.240 --> 0:28:37.360 that would serve as a sort of like de facto 0:28:37.640 --> 0:28:41.320 security guarantee for Ukraine, because we wouldn't want the Russians 0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:45.120 messing with our capitalist stuff. One oddity would be people 0:28:45.120 --> 0:28:47.320 who cast to get Ukraine for corruption and denounce the 0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:50.160 Biden family for profiting from Ukraine related graft. Sharing this 0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:53.080 sweeping economic and security integration between the US and Ukraine 0:28:53.120 --> 0:28:55.840 without regard for whatever graft, it's likely to induce a 0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:59.000 point that our own Emily Kashinski made yesterday as well. 0:28:59.080 --> 0:29:03.440 So what is your reaction to this development and the 0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:06.160 signing of this Ukrainian minerals deal, what it means for 0:29:06.200 --> 0:29:07.080 this war going forward? 0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:09.959 Right, yeah, it's it's there, hold my beer moment, Like you, 0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:14.360 what's this, like, Penny Anti fifty thousand dollars a month retainer? 0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:18.880 Corruption you're doing with this energy company? Now just extort 0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:21.360 and exploit the entire country. 0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:22.720 Let's do lithium. 0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:25.800 I noticed on the screen there that Big Balls is 0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:29.560 trending to I don't like what is Big Balls still doing. 0:29:29.600 --> 0:29:31.640 I thought Doge was wrapping things up. 0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:35.880 But they did some interview with Jesse Waters I think yesterday, 0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:37.080 so that's probably, Oh. 0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:37.760 My goodness, okay. 0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:42.040 I mean every every country is claiming to have these 0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:46.520 rare earths, and the real problem is the is the 0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:50.440 refinement ability, like can you can you get them out 0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:52.800 and can you turn them into the products that are 0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:55.880 then needed? And that's that's the real problem. The rare 0:29:55.920 --> 0:29:59.920 earths are not actually that rare. So yeah, this is 0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:03.120 this seems like just a gimmick to try to which 0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:06.640 Lindsey Graham like said publicly it was a gimmick. Like 0:30:06.720 --> 0:30:09.400 he rolled out this map and he said, look, I 0:30:09.440 --> 0:30:11.040 know you're not into the war, you don't like all 0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:15.160 the killing, but look at this map. This is all 0:30:15.200 --> 0:30:17.680 money underneath the ground here. Wouldn't this be amazing if 0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:20.000 we could just have all this money we're getting ripped off. 0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:23.040 We're giving them all this for nothing. Binds an idiot. 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:25.760 You can be a genius and have all these things. 0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:28.320 And he took it hook line and sinker. 0:30:30.240 --> 0:30:30.440 Yeah. 0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:32.600 Well, I was gonna say, there's reporting that Chevron and 0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:36.440 Shell have tried to do big business like lots of like, 0:30:36.440 --> 0:30:39.520 like they have really tried to make money in Ukraine 0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:42.640 in recent years, and the corruption has been a significant 0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:46.160 impediment to that. And if it's too corrupt for Chevron 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:49.720 and Shell to be able to feel comfortable making money, 0:30:49.760 --> 0:30:54.240 you can see the just enormous rats mess that the 0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:57.080 United States has just injected itself. And now, what are 0:30:57.080 --> 0:31:00.680 the significant differences that's worth mentioning, of course, between like 0:31:00.800 --> 0:31:05.040 Hunter Biden and general Ukrainian American corruption here is that 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:07.520 this is in the service of hopefully putting us on 0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:09.280 a glide path to ending the slaughter. 0:31:10.280 --> 0:31:13.520 But isn't it isn't the attempt here to keep the 0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:14.560 slaughter going. 0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:17.880 Kind of And definitely it does feel to me like 0:31:17.920 --> 0:31:20.200 something that makes it much more And I think Tracy 0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:23.520 just made this point. It makes it. It doesn't come 0:31:23.600 --> 0:31:25.960 up with a long term solution to the conflict. If anything, 0:31:26.000 --> 0:31:28.240 it feels like it's going into slow burned territory. 0:31:28.920 --> 0:31:30.400 That's like the stated goal of it. 0:31:30.760 --> 0:31:35.280 Yeah, yeah, because the idea is this obligates the US 0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:40.280 to Ukraine in perpetuity. Now we have this locked in relationship. 0:31:40.680 --> 0:31:42.720 I had a quote in the show yesterday from somebody 0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:45.040 from the Council on Foreign Relations where they're basically like, 0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:49.360 you know, our investment in their geology is the is 0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:51.560 a de facto security guarantee. 0:31:51.800 --> 0:31:53.320 And that's that's the idea. 0:31:53.320 --> 0:31:57.440 I mean, that's why Zelensky immediately, uh, you know, being 0:31:57.520 --> 0:32:01.120 a savvy political operator, as soon as Biden loses, he 0:32:01.200 --> 0:32:04.520 switches the language from preserving democracy and we're in this 0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:08.320 fight against a their authoritarianism whatever, switches it to let's 0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:11.800 make a deal. And he had allies from Lindsey Graham, 0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:14.000 who also Emily and I covered yesterday, is now out 0:32:14.000 --> 0:32:17.200 with some big like let's sanction Russia somehow even harder 0:32:17.200 --> 0:32:21.080 than we were before, which appears to have very likely 0:32:21.120 --> 0:32:23.640 a veto proof majority in the Senate. We'll see if 0:32:23.680 --> 0:32:26.640 it comes up for a vote or not. But you 0:32:26.680 --> 0:32:30.120 know that is the idea is, effectively, this would enable 0:32:30.440 --> 0:32:35.320 Ukraine to continue receiving weapons just in exchange for selling 0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:38.920 the country's geology out from under the people of the country. 0:32:38.960 --> 0:32:41.720 And it's also interesting to me, I'm curious what both 0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:43.840 of you guys think about this, that the terms of 0:32:43.880 --> 0:32:48.200 the deal have gotten much more favorable towards Ukraine since 0:32:48.720 --> 0:32:51.840 that Oval Office blow up meeting, when a lot of 0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:53.920 the reaction was like, oh, you know, Trump's done with 0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:56.480 the LENSCA and it's over for him, and they're just gonna, 0:32:56.480 --> 0:32:59.080 you know, they're going to cut off communications all together 0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:02.160 and he's screwed, etc. And in the meantime from that 0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:08.920 interaction to now, actually he won some significant concessions. They 0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:11.520 don't have to give up all their port infrastructure. The 0:33:11.520 --> 0:33:13.880 previous deal is basically like we're taking half your country 0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:15.640 and that's it, end of story. This one is still 0:33:15.680 --> 0:33:17.760 again very exploitaive, don't get me wrong, but it's not 0:33:17.840 --> 0:33:20.400 as bad as the first one. And then the really 0:33:20.440 --> 0:33:24.520 significant concession is you'll recall Trump was really adamant about 0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:27.360 we want to get paid back for what we've already 0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:31.920 given you, what we've already shipped, and this agreement says no. 0:33:32.160 --> 0:33:34.760 I mean that was always like sort of a preposterous demand, 0:33:34.760 --> 0:33:36.600 but this agreement says no, you know, this is just 0:33:36.600 --> 0:33:38.560 going to be on a moving forward basis. So what 0:33:38.560 --> 0:33:41.680 do you guys make of that? Of that shift in 0:33:41.800 --> 0:33:45.560 the agreement and Zelenski seemingly getting some significant concessions here. 0:33:45.840 --> 0:33:47.760 I think there are a couple of things behind it. First, 0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:49.959 Trump is now over his one hundred day mark and 0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:52.560 has not secured a ceasefire in a conflict he said 0:33:52.560 --> 0:33:55.480 he could end on day one as president. He understands 0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:59.600 how significant for his voter's foreign policy is in a 0:33:59.640 --> 0:34:02.120 way that the media often doesn't understand. I mean, he 0:34:02.200 --> 0:34:04.800 has a lot of support and areas that are super 0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:08.800 war weary because they don't like they're very, very very 0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:12.640 cautious of entanglements that might end up with US boots 0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:15.640 on the ground. And it's a personal sensitive issue for 0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:17.439 a lot of the places where he gets support from. 0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.600 And I think he understands that about his own voters 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:22.480 in a way that media doesn't understand that about his 0:34:22.520 --> 0:34:24.719 own voters. So I think on the one hand, he's 0:34:25.000 --> 0:34:28.120 very aware of how weak it makes him look if 0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:30.560 he's not able to secure an end to the or 0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:32.759 secure a ceasefire, because you guys are right. I mean, 0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:35.239 I don't think this is an end to the conflict 0:34:35.280 --> 0:34:39.440 over the Dawnbass or over crimea by any means an end. 0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:41.760 Hopefully as step towards an end to the daily slaughter, 0:34:42.120 --> 0:34:44.520 we will see that is to be determined. But on 0:34:44.560 --> 0:34:47.359 the other hand, I also think Donald Trump really is 0:34:48.040 --> 0:34:51.759 and I'm trying to say this without sounding like insulting, 0:34:51.840 --> 0:34:55.759 but he really is as simple as you think, like. 0:34:56.000 --> 0:34:59.319 He wants to look strong, he wants to look like 0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:02.200 he has made deals, and he wants to look like 0:35:02.239 --> 0:35:05.439 people have come crawling back to him. And as soon 0:35:05.480 --> 0:35:08.440 as people realize that, I mean, we talk a lot 0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:11.560 about the difference between Claudia Scheinbaum and Justin Trudeau and 0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:14.839 maybe now Mark Carney, but as soon as people realize 0:35:14.880 --> 0:35:16.840 that there is a very simple way to deal with 0:35:16.920 --> 0:35:20.480 Donald Trump, they can get gains. And I think Zelensky 0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:23.880 was sufficiently sort of chastened by even Lindsay Graham freaking 0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:27.200 out after that Oval Office meeting that he realized he 0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:30.360 went on Ben Shapiro's show, he was talking to the 0:35:30.440 --> 0:35:33.360 press about how much he loves the United States, and 0:35:33.400 --> 0:35:39.120 they had that little conversation at the Vatican literally in 0:35:39.160 --> 0:35:41.719 the Basilica. And so I think Donald Trump, on the 0:35:41.760 --> 0:35:45.400 one hand, is getting more eager, even more eager to 0:35:45.480 --> 0:35:47.200 look like he has a political win on his hands 0:35:47.200 --> 0:35:48.840 and he's getting closer to ceasefire. And then on the 0:35:48.880 --> 0:35:51.680 other hand, I feel like he thinks that he looks 0:35:51.680 --> 0:35:55.920 strong because Zolensky has come back to him to get 0:35:55.960 --> 0:35:58.799 the deal. Now, whether or not that's true because the 0:35:58.800 --> 0:36:01.960 deal is now even more sweet for Ukraine is a 0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:04.759 different question. But I think that's what Donald Trump saw, 0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:07.040 what he wanted to see from Zelensky, and it made 0:36:07.080 --> 0:36:08.520 him comfortable moving forward. 0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:11.960 The whole thing just seems kind of fake to me, 0:36:12.239 --> 0:36:16.040 like in the sense that it's going to be overtaken 0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:21.839 by events. Like it's like Ukraine is, as Trump very 0:36:21.840 --> 0:36:24.240 correctly said in the Oval Office, doesn't have any cards 0:36:24.239 --> 0:36:27.680 to play yet. Now Trump is like spending all his 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:30.560 time playing cards with them. 0:36:30.640 --> 0:36:31.239 What are you doing? 0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:33.719 You take their chips? They don't have any chips, like 0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:37.400 Russia's taking their chips. So the whole so it feels 0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:40.520 like a total distraction from the reality on the ground. 0:36:41.800 --> 0:36:43.600 Let me go out and play. Let this last piece 0:36:43.640 --> 0:36:46.480 for you guys. This was Scott Bessett. It's another Michael 0:36:46.480 --> 0:36:51.960 Tracy pulled this this clip, and this is Scott Bessett saying, basically, 0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:55.040 we're fully and completely on the same page. There's no 0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:57.359 daylight between US and Ukraine at this point. Let's take 0:36:57.360 --> 0:36:57.800 a listen to that. 0:36:58.200 --> 0:36:59.280 It's good for America. 0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:03.440 It's good for you Ukraine, I believe also for Europe 0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:04.200 in a lot of ways. 0:37:04.480 --> 0:37:06.440 And tell us the details of that. 0:37:07.760 --> 0:37:10.319 Showing it. It's a great deal. Thanks for having me 0:37:10.360 --> 0:37:14.520 on tonight. And look that this is President Trump's deal, 0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:20.120 that he's done trade deals, tax deals, and now we've 0:37:20.120 --> 0:37:25.759 got this Ukrainian American economic partnership deal. And it's win 0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:28.920 when it is a way to show that there's no 0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:35.120 daylight between Ukraine and US. As President Trump presses to 0:37:35.560 --> 0:37:39.959 end this horrible war, he wants both sides to come 0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:44.719 to the table now. By showing that the US has 0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:48.680 an economic interest in Ukraine, it's a signal to the 0:37:48.760 --> 0:37:52.520 Russian leadership. It's also a signal to the American people 0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:55.759 that we have a chance to participate, get some of 0:37:56.560 --> 0:38:00.920 the funding and the weapons compensation for those and be 0:38:01.040 --> 0:38:04.680 partners with the success of the Ukraine people. Bring American 0:38:05.400 --> 0:38:10.680 know how best practices to the rebuilt Ukraine. But the 0:38:10.680 --> 0:38:14.640 rebuilding can't stop until this war ends, and President Trump 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:15.600 is committed to that. 0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:18.440 So what do you guys make of that? 0:38:18.600 --> 0:38:21.040 And I do think, you know, I mean, a lot 0:38:21.080 --> 0:38:24.320 of the Republican base that is animated by the Ukraine 0:38:24.440 --> 0:38:29.439 War they have come to just outright hate Zelenski outright right, 0:38:29.640 --> 0:38:32.759 you know, have distaste for Ukraine. And so I think 0:38:32.760 --> 0:38:36.000 this is this is a very different approach and tactic 0:38:36.080 --> 0:38:39.080 certainly than what they were expecting. What they were expecting 0:38:39.320 --> 0:38:41.520 was more like what the Oval Office blow up, like 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:44.399 the Magarite freaking love that they ate it up right, 0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:47.279 They thought it was great. You know, have you ever 0:38:47.320 --> 0:38:50.040 said thank you once? Et cetera, et cetera, And now 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:55.000 here you are back to this deal that really doesn't 0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:58.000 look all that different from the Biden administration's approach of 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:00.920 just sort of like maintaining a status and continuing to 0:39:00.920 --> 0:39:04.839 ship weapons and letting this thing drive on in perpetuity. 0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:09.000 Well, I think I mean in a non great way 0:39:09.120 --> 0:39:12.799 that this actually is sort of a security guarantee and 0:39:12.960 --> 0:39:17.840 that's kind of thee Yeah, and I feel like, you know, 0:39:19.000 --> 0:39:22.000 the Biden administration didn't actually even really go that far. 0:39:22.760 --> 0:39:24.640 I get what they're doing right, that it's sort of 0:39:24.640 --> 0:39:26.920 they're trying to have it both ways, that it doesn't 0:39:26.960 --> 0:39:29.480 look like a security guarantee, and then it is a 0:39:29.480 --> 0:39:32.239 security guarantee, like they're using it intentionally as sort of 0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:34.600 a roorshosh test, like if Ukraine wants it to be 0:39:34.640 --> 0:39:39.360 a security guarantee, it is, But in like pragmatic terms, 0:39:39.719 --> 0:39:43.200 it obviously could very much function as a security guarantee. 0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:46.239 It's not NATO membership. But what does this mean for 0:39:46.440 --> 0:39:50.000 how many Americans will regularly be on the ground, and 0:39:50.040 --> 0:39:52.279 you like, we don't really know what that's going to 0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:54.600 look like in a way that I think is quite concerning. 0:39:54.680 --> 0:39:58.359 But what was important from Trump's perspective, I really think 0:39:58.400 --> 0:40:00.560 it was making it look like Zelenski kissed the ring 0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:02.959 and came back to the table for a similar deal. 0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:04.840 So I don't know, I think that's a really good point. Christal, like, 0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:07.960 what is Maga thinking now? I think maybe the best thing, 0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:10.960 the best way that they're spinning it is this was 0:40:11.000 --> 0:40:13.680 a big win for Trump. He had Zelenski come crawling back, 0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:15.880 But it's not clear that that's actually what happened. 0:40:16.800 --> 0:40:19.840 To me, it flows from the same error that Trump 0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:24.120 made with with tariffs. Like he has he's identified, he's 0:40:24.160 --> 0:40:28.479 correctly identified a problem in both cases, and then he 0:40:28.719 --> 0:40:31.879 in his mind has identified a solution on the When 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:34.560 it comes to you know, manufacturing the working class, his 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:38.280 solution is, somebody do big, beautiful tariffs. When it comes 0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:40.719 to this war is bad, He's going to just end 0:40:40.760 --> 0:40:41.080 the war. 0:40:42.080 --> 0:40:42.720 Like he kept. 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:48.359 He never he never expounded upon why he was going 0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:50.520 to be able to do that. All he would say 0:40:50.560 --> 0:40:53.520 is that if he if the election hadn't been stolen 0:40:53.560 --> 0:40:57.919 from him, the invasion never would have happened. And when 0:40:57.920 --> 0:40:59.759 I get in, the war is going to end. So 0:41:00.160 --> 0:41:04.440 was his plan a but without any you know, skitched 0:41:04.840 --> 0:41:08.399 sketch behind it. And when that didn't work, now he's 0:41:08.400 --> 0:41:12.799 just flailing. So I think it's similar to how he 0:41:12.840 --> 0:41:14.040 approaches most things. 0:41:14.320 --> 0:41:16.919 Yeah, and the gaps are being filled in by people 0:41:16.960 --> 0:41:18.600 who do have an idea, a logic, who do have 0:41:18.680 --> 0:41:20.600 ideology and do have a plan. And that would be 0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:23.839 like the Lindsay Grahams of the world, who you know, yeah, 0:41:24.040 --> 0:41:26.920 pushing this minerals deal, and like I said before, has 0:41:26.960 --> 0:41:30.279 a plan to even more aggressively sanctioned Russia because that's 0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:31.719 definitely totally worked so far. 0:41:31.880 --> 0:41:33.680 Yeah, that's what we need a few more sanctions. 0:41:33.840 --> 0:41:35.600 Last point on this, this is just like, you know, 0:41:35.680 --> 0:41:38.319 the Michael Tracy Ukraine segment, but I forgot it was 0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:40.080 actually him that did this interview with Bannon. I'm not 0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:41.359 going to play it, but I'll just pull it up. 0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:44.759 You remember he asked Bannon about this proposed minerals deal 0:41:44.920 --> 0:41:47.640 and Bannon being kind of the emblem of the you know, 0:41:47.800 --> 0:41:53.719 MAGA nationalist America first, right, his reaction was walk the 0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:56.920 fuck away. He warns that the US needs to stop 0:41:57.080 --> 0:41:59.959 entangling itself with quote that cursed part of the world. 0:42:00.560 --> 0:42:05.200 To get a flavor of how you know this person, 0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:07.880 who certainly is in a lot of ways a leader 0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:10.440 of the MAGA, right, how he feels about this direction. 0:42:10.520 --> 0:42:10.680 Now? 0:42:10.800 --> 0:42:13.120 Do I think he'll be like super critical of it 0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:14.799 now that Trump is inked it and it's done. 0:42:14.840 --> 0:42:16.360 I don't know. I won't hold my breath. But that 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:17.680 was his reaction initially. 0:42:18.640 --> 0:42:20.520 Yeah, that's a great point I forgot about. That was 0:42:20.520 --> 0:42:24.520 a sea pack and we'll see how Bannon reacts now. 0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:26.200 Be interesting. 0:42:26.480 --> 0:42:28.680 Yeah, indeed, we can ask Laura Lumer to next week 0:42:28.760 --> 0:42:29.200 ran right. 0:42:29.480 --> 0:42:34.040 Yes, indeed, all. 0:42:34.000 --> 0:42:36.560 Right, let's get to the latest on the Alien Enemies Act. 0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:38.560 So this is pretty extraordinary. 0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:40.480 We now have a. 0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:45.760 Trump appointed judge who has barred the administration from removing 0:42:45.800 --> 0:42:49.680 migrants under the Alien Enemies Act, saying that his invocation 0:42:49.920 --> 0:42:53.680 of that law in the context of trender Aragua was illegal. 0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:56.600 So this isn't saying like, you know, you did it 0:42:56.640 --> 0:42:59.760 wrong with this this person in particular, you can't apport 0:42:59.800 --> 0:43:03.279 that particular person. This is saying, no, no, no, on 0:43:03.440 --> 0:43:07.480 the merits, your invocation of this law was illegal. So 0:43:07.840 --> 0:43:12.360 everyone who has been deported under this invocation of the 0:43:12.400 --> 0:43:15.880 Alien Enemies Act according to this again, Trump appoint a 0:43:15.960 --> 0:43:20.640 judge that was all done, you know, under illegal auspices. 0:43:21.120 --> 0:43:25.320 And if you read I read through the relevant portions 0:43:25.480 --> 0:43:29.279 of this of this ruling, and it's exactly it says 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:31.120 exactly what you would think that it would say, which 0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:33.920 is basically like, we're not at war. We're not at 0:43:33.920 --> 0:43:37.239 war with Venezuela. This is not an invasion. Venezuela is 0:43:37.239 --> 0:43:39.840 not behind trend or Agua. It's just you know, goes 0:43:39.840 --> 0:43:42.839 to the merits of Alien Enemies Act has been used 0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:47.399 three times. It's really historically, the meaning of what war 0:43:47.600 --> 0:43:51.319 and invasion is has been really clear, and what you're 0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:54.120 doing here doesn't meet any of that standards, any of 0:43:54.120 --> 0:43:55.840 those standards. So here is a portion they say as 0:43:55.920 --> 0:43:58.800 to that question. The historical record renders clear the presence 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:01.880 invocation of the AEA through the proclamation exceeds the scope 0:44:01.920 --> 0:44:04.720 of the statute, and it's contrary to the plain ordinary 0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:07.439 meaning of the statute's terms. As a result, the Court 0:44:07.480 --> 0:44:10.680 concludes that, as a matter of law, the executive branch 0:44:10.880 --> 0:44:15.920 cannot rely on the AA. And then he goes on 0:44:16.000 --> 0:44:19.560 from here. This is Kyle Cheneyish's Politico's Court reporter just now. 0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:22.719 Judge Rodrigoz also denied effort by the Trump administration a 0:44:22.760 --> 0:44:26.360 hurriedly to port today one of those AEA targets Daniel 0:44:26.960 --> 0:44:30.279 Zacharias Mattos under other immigration authorities. He wants briefing on 0:44:30.320 --> 0:44:33.720 the matter, needs to consider a jurisdiction, and a Trump 0:44:33.719 --> 0:44:36.239 appointed judge says the present's use of the AEA was 0:44:36.320 --> 0:44:39.120 unlawful because there's no evidence Trender Orwagwa, as harmful as 0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:42.319 the gang is is literally invading the US as the 0:44:42.400 --> 0:44:46.319 law requires. So Emily, let me get your reaction to 0:44:46.400 --> 0:44:49.800 this because I thought that this would come at some point, 0:44:50.120 --> 0:44:52.040 but I was sort of wondering, like, when are we 0:44:52.080 --> 0:44:54.360 going to get to actually determining whether the use of 0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:57.400 this law at all, not just in these individual habeas petitions, 0:44:57.440 --> 0:44:59.759 but whether this use of this law at all is 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:02.480 And it seems that we have arrived to fully expect, 0:45:02.560 --> 0:45:05.440 pee lightfully expect, probably end up before the Supreme Court. 0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:08.520 But the fact it's a trumpet pointed judge is certainly 0:45:08.520 --> 0:45:09.960 not a good sign for the administration. 0:45:10.680 --> 0:45:14.319 No, and but actually we talked about this yesterday. They 0:45:14.360 --> 0:45:19.040 aren't really this is not something that they were not expecting, 0:45:19.120 --> 0:45:21.560 like to that was double negative, like they were expecting 0:45:21.600 --> 0:45:24.279 all of this. They knew that this would happen, and 0:45:24.320 --> 0:45:27.360 that's why they assumed that this was likely to happen. 0:45:27.400 --> 0:45:30.120 And that's why they're trying to go with a floodles zone, 0:45:30.239 --> 0:45:33.400 throw everything at the wall, see what sticks legal strategy, uh, 0:45:33.480 --> 0:45:35.319 and to do as much of it as quickly as 0:45:35.360 --> 0:45:40.080 they possibly can, because they're very consciously concocting or they 0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:42.560 already did. They spent the last four years concocting these 0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:46.240 sort of novel legal theories in order to get people 0:45:46.320 --> 0:45:48.799 out of the country as fast as possible to keep 0:45:48.880 --> 0:45:50.960 up with the pace of how many people came into 0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:53.439 the country under the Biden presidency, which is a lot. 0:45:53.600 --> 0:45:55.759 According to the New York Times, some eight million nets. 0:45:55.880 --> 0:45:58.480 So that's and some people think it's higher. But anyway, 0:45:58.480 --> 0:46:00.600 all that is to say, they are are sort of 0:46:00.640 --> 0:46:03.040 aware that they were skating on thin ice with this. 0:46:03.400 --> 0:46:04.840 And I mean, it would be great to see a 0:46:04.920 --> 0:46:08.000 judge find the entire Alien Enemies Act unconstitutional. That's like 0:46:08.040 --> 0:46:11.239 the ideal situation, but they sort of knew that they 0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:13.759 were stretching. It was kind of like, ah, look what 0:46:13.800 --> 0:46:16.719 we can do. We can say that Trende Ragua is 0:46:16.760 --> 0:46:20.600 an invasion like galaxy brain, and that's one way that 0:46:20.640 --> 0:46:22.560 we could just get everyone the hell out of here. 0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:26.719 So's it's definitely a set back because that was one 0:46:26.719 --> 0:46:28.200 of the ways they would be able to get as 0:46:28.200 --> 0:46:32.920 many people as they possibly could out really quickly. And obviously, 0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:36.920 you know that wasn't going as well as they probably hoped. 0:46:36.960 --> 0:46:39.160 But they also kind of knew that this was going 0:46:39.239 --> 0:46:41.759 to be a problem. It just gives them an opportunity, 0:46:41.800 --> 0:46:44.560 I guess, to rage on judges. But this is a 0:46:44.560 --> 0:46:46.359 trumpet pointed judge, So it was a little harder in 0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:46.840 that case. 0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:50.040 Yeah, I don't understand Emily why they don't just go 0:46:50.080 --> 0:46:55.040 to Congress, Like and if they don't like the laws 0:46:55.160 --> 0:46:57.760 that are on the books and they think the political 0:46:57.760 --> 0:47:00.640 wind is at their back when it comes to masterportations, 0:47:01.400 --> 0:47:04.960 why don't they just get Steven Miller in these other 0:47:05.360 --> 0:47:08.640 you know, lawyers that he's got to draft legislation and 0:47:08.680 --> 0:47:11.080 send it to Congress and change change the laws? Is 0:47:11.080 --> 0:47:14.200 it really the parliamentarian? Like, are we back to the 0:47:14.200 --> 0:47:17.600 parliamentarian because they can't do it without sixty votes? 0:47:17.760 --> 0:47:19.719 Like, well, the parliamentarian shouldn't even need to be a 0:47:19.719 --> 0:47:21.880 problem in this case. They can write up new legislation. 0:47:22.600 --> 0:47:25.480 It doesn't happen it would need sixty votes unless they can. 0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:28.640 Yeah, you could do it through reconciliation, but you probably 0:47:28.680 --> 0:47:30.920 have to ignore the ruling of the parliamentarian, which they've 0:47:30.960 --> 0:47:33.120 already basically said that they plan to do for other 0:47:33.200 --> 0:47:33.799 things as well. 0:47:33.880 --> 0:47:35.560 So why not just do Like what is what are 0:47:35.560 --> 0:47:39.160 they so afraid of when it comes to writing new laws? 0:47:39.360 --> 0:47:41.000 Well, I don't know what they would do, and like 0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:43.360 I honestly I'm trying to think of what type of 0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:46.239 law that they could come up with, because what they 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:49.960 really could do, and Glenn Greenwald, who's guest hosting on Monday, 0:47:50.040 --> 0:47:53.279 made this point recently, is that you actually can do 0:47:53.320 --> 0:47:56.840 these things pretty quickly in immigration courts. You probably need 0:47:57.000 --> 0:48:01.600 a lot more immigration judges. You'd probably need to beef 0:48:01.640 --> 0:48:03.080 that up significantly, and. 0:48:03.080 --> 0:48:04.720 We have a lot of unemployed lawyers. 0:48:05.040 --> 0:48:07.799 Yeah, well that's right. But that's what I'm just going 0:48:07.880 --> 0:48:10.600 to say is I think maybe they don't trust that process, 0:48:11.160 --> 0:48:16.120 that they are sort of concerned that putting more people 0:48:16.120 --> 0:48:18.040 through that legal process means a lot of people will 0:48:18.080 --> 0:48:21.680 just be given like permanent status, permanent legal status, or 0:48:21.840 --> 0:48:24.680 be on the glide path to citizenship. They're also concerned 0:48:24.719 --> 0:48:26.480 that and this one I do think is a real 0:48:26.480 --> 0:48:29.080 concern is that it becomes a carrot. It becomes a 0:48:29.160 --> 0:48:30.719 draw for people to come in if you can get 0:48:30.719 --> 0:48:31.680 processed really quickly. 0:48:31.760 --> 0:48:33.960 But I think that's I think it's the opposite because 0:48:34.040 --> 0:48:36.040 the reason it's a draw right now is because you 0:48:36.040 --> 0:48:37.279 know you can come in and it's going to take 0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:39.520 years for your silent claim to be adjudicated. I mean, 0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:42.840 that's the loophole that you know, Listen, I think I 0:48:42.960 --> 0:48:46.240 personally am in support of a large number of legal 0:48:46.280 --> 0:48:49.760 migrants into this country. But that's that's the real problem. 0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:54.200 If you want to expedite the deportation of people who 0:48:54.320 --> 0:48:56.960 are here, you have to allow them to adjudicate their 0:48:57.000 --> 0:49:00.200 claims and yes, go through a process. And quite on 0:49:00.239 --> 0:49:04.520 the contrary, they've been firing immigration judges, so going in 0:49:04.600 --> 0:49:08.200 exactly the opposite direction. Another round of firing hits immigration 0:49:08.280 --> 0:49:11.560 course in Massachusetts, California, Louisiana, even as the Trump administration 0:49:11.600 --> 0:49:14.640 continues its efforts up downsizing the government but also increasing 0:49:14.960 --> 0:49:19.280 immigration related arrests. At least eight immigration judges received notices 0:49:19.280 --> 0:49:21.600 they be put on leave their employment be terminated on 0:49:21.640 --> 0:49:25.440 April twenty second. So you know, I personally think that 0:49:25.440 --> 0:49:28.239 there's some other things going on here. I mean number one, 0:49:28.280 --> 0:49:33.160 as we talked about yesterday, Emily, like Stephen Miller explicitly 0:49:33.440 --> 0:49:36.719 as part of his ideology, he wants there to be 0:49:37.000 --> 0:49:41.279 a display of outrageous cruelty in hopes that that will 0:49:41.320 --> 0:49:45.520 cause people to self deport and so shipping people off 0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:48.440 either to go on tonam obay, which they also do, 0:49:48.960 --> 0:49:52.840 or to this torture dungeon for life. Yeah, that's going 0:49:52.920 --> 0:49:55.239 to scare the shit out of a lot of immigrants, 0:49:55.480 --> 0:50:00.280 especially in that sense. Yeah, especially when you learned like, oh, 0:50:00.640 --> 0:50:03.280 actually these aren't the quote unquote worst of the worst. 0:50:03.640 --> 0:50:06.640 This is a makeup artist with mom and dad tattoos 0:50:06.680 --> 0:50:09.920 and a soccer player who has an autism awareness tattoo. 0:50:10.320 --> 0:50:12.719 Like the vast majorities, youll have no criminal record, so 0:50:13.239 --> 0:50:16.960 you start if you're here, even if you did everything right, 0:50:17.000 --> 0:50:19.200 because we also know that you know, uh, kill mar 0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:21.640 Brego Garcia. He was removed even though there was an 0:50:21.719 --> 0:50:24.320 order saying you cannot remove him to this particular country. 0:50:24.520 --> 0:50:27.880 We know that others had come in via the CBP 0:50:28.040 --> 0:50:31.120 one app followed the procedure. We're showing up for their hearings. 0:50:31.200 --> 0:50:33.839 We're doing everything right, So none of that serves as 0:50:33.840 --> 0:50:37.120 a protection. That's exactly the message that Steven Miller wants 0:50:37.160 --> 0:50:41.000 to send, is that your entire life, like we can 0:50:41.160 --> 0:50:45.239 casually destroy your entire life and not just deport you, 0:50:46.040 --> 0:50:49.840 but we can send you and sentence you for life 0:50:50.280 --> 0:50:54.680 to this horrific you know, this horrific place where the 0:50:54.680 --> 0:50:56.719 Bekelly and his people say the only way you come 0:50:56.719 --> 0:50:59.520 out as in a casket. So I think that's part 0:50:59.560 --> 0:51:03.879 of it. I think the other part of it is 0:51:04.120 --> 0:51:08.440 that their narrative on immigration, and this is really one 0:51:08.480 --> 0:51:12.719 of the innovations of the Trump anti immigrant approach, at 0:51:12.800 --> 0:51:15.240 least in you know, with regard to the US context, 0:51:15.719 --> 0:51:19.480 is instead of primarily talking about challenge with immigration being 0:51:19.520 --> 0:51:23.560 about jobs or being about housing or economic issues, he 0:51:23.800 --> 0:51:26.200 talks about it almost exclusively as. 0:51:26.080 --> 0:51:27.319 Being about criminals. 0:51:27.680 --> 0:51:31.080 That these are all criminals, and they're you know, they're 0:51:31.120 --> 0:51:33.560 coming in and they're raping our women, and they're you know, 0:51:33.680 --> 0:51:36.759 murdering people. And that's why the Lake and Riley Act 0:51:36.800 --> 0:51:39.080 is the first thing they passed through Congress. And so 0:51:39.400 --> 0:51:42.719 if you go through a legal process, it is going 0:51:42.760 --> 0:51:46.880 to become quite apparent that overwhelmingly they are not criminals. 0:51:47.040 --> 0:51:49.840 You know, yes, there are criminals in the undocumented population, 0:51:50.120 --> 0:51:52.880 lower number than the native born population. And so you 0:51:52.920 --> 0:51:56.720 cannot keep up the farce of this is a group 0:51:56.880 --> 0:52:01.920 of horrible, you know, savages who are destroying our country 0:52:02.400 --> 0:52:04.160 and you know, are the worst of the worst, and 0:52:04.200 --> 0:52:06.640 they're terrible people, and they let out the from the 0:52:06.840 --> 0:52:10.400 insane asylums, as he always says, you cannot maintain that 0:52:10.520 --> 0:52:14.040 farce if you're actually going through some process and people 0:52:14.080 --> 0:52:17.680 have to interact with who these humans actually are and 0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:19.919 the reasons they came, and you know, the way they've 0:52:19.920 --> 0:52:22.200 been conducting themselves since they were here as well. So 0:52:22.280 --> 0:52:24.480 to me, that's the reason why they really have no 0:52:24.560 --> 0:52:28.279 interest in actually changing the law and going through some 0:52:28.320 --> 0:52:31.719 sort of semblance of a legal and constitutional process, because 0:52:31.719 --> 0:52:33.840 they want the cruelty and they also want to avoid 0:52:34.160 --> 0:52:37.399 the scrutiny of hey, you know, these are like people 0:52:37.480 --> 0:52:40.319 who often are good community members, are paying taxes and 0:52:40.360 --> 0:52:41.480 trying to do everything right. 0:52:43.320 --> 0:52:45.480 Branded did you want to jump in, Okay, yeah, no, 0:52:45.520 --> 0:52:47.359 I was just gonna say, I think I think part 0:52:47.400 --> 0:52:50.560 of it is the cruelty. Yes, I agree with that, 0:52:51.040 --> 0:52:53.320 and I think that's your point on the tactics is 0:52:53.360 --> 0:52:56.200 also right. The more that you send people through immigration judges, 0:52:56.560 --> 0:52:58.959 the more it becomes obvious that people who have much 0:52:59.120 --> 0:53:02.719 more sympathetic cases. Now they might be ones that I 0:53:02.920 --> 0:53:06.680 disagree with, but for the broader public, they're much more 0:53:06.719 --> 0:53:11.240 sympathetic than MS thirteen members or trendy Ragua members being 0:53:11.400 --> 0:53:14.759 booted out, because people, when they look around, realize in 0:53:14.800 --> 0:53:16.719 their daily lives that there are a whole lot of 0:53:16.760 --> 0:53:19.640 people who've been here for a very long time and 0:53:19.719 --> 0:53:21.800 even five years is a long time. You belt Kilmara 0:53:21.840 --> 0:53:23.959 Brego Garcia has been here since twenty twelve, He's got kids. 0:53:24.719 --> 0:53:28.160 That's the case with many, many people married to US citizens. 0:53:28.239 --> 0:53:31.680 And it's politically much even if there are a whole 0:53:31.680 --> 0:53:33.360 lot of people in the country who are like, I 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:36.080 don't care, get them out, it's politically with the broader 0:53:36.120 --> 0:53:38.839 public a much more difficult case to make, There's no 0:53:38.960 --> 0:53:39.680 question about that. 0:53:40.160 --> 0:53:42.399 Yeah, I think the broader public rind was really sold 0:53:42.480 --> 0:53:46.400 on mess deportation from this idea of it's largely this 0:53:46.480 --> 0:53:49.720 is a largely criminal group. And we can already see 0:53:49.920 --> 0:53:54.520 as the broader public is interacting with the actual details 0:53:54.719 --> 0:53:57.360 of who these humans are and the Wave administration is 0:53:57.400 --> 0:54:01.600 approaching all of this, the numbers have shifted already quite dramatically, 0:54:02.040 --> 0:54:04.120 and so you can only imagine if you had, you know, 0:54:04.200 --> 0:54:07.279 legal process playing out, and you were you able to 0:54:07.800 --> 0:54:10.920 access more of these human details, that it would not 0:54:11.040 --> 0:54:14.120 be you know, the public would not maintain the same 0:54:14.200 --> 0:54:16.920 level of support for mass deportation as they did when 0:54:16.960 --> 0:54:19.239 they were theoretically thinking of like, oh, it's going to 0:54:19.239 --> 0:54:20.920 be the criminals and the worst of the worst that 0:54:20.960 --> 0:54:22.239 are that are first in. 0:54:22.160 --> 0:54:23.960 Line for this mass deportation. 0:54:24.719 --> 0:54:24.879 Yeah. 0:54:24.920 --> 0:54:28.280 And I think the conservative media did an effective job 0:54:28.360 --> 0:54:32.280 at circulating a lot of you know, narratives about eating 0:54:32.360 --> 0:54:35.480 cats and you know, the weird stuff out of Springfield 0:54:35.560 --> 0:54:39.720 and the and the the mainstream media I think undermined 0:54:39.760 --> 0:54:43.960 itself by like ignoring that when you know, when trende 0:54:44.000 --> 0:54:47.560 a raqua took over basically took over that apartment complex 0:54:47.600 --> 0:54:50.440 and like Colorado Springs or wherever it was, and it 0:54:50.440 --> 0:54:54.279 didn't get you know, didn't get any attention. And then 0:54:54.320 --> 0:54:57.200 the and then the right wing media was able to 0:54:57.239 --> 0:54:59.120 like say, no, look, this is actually happening. And then 0:54:59.160 --> 0:55:01.680 it raises questions in people's minds, like is there a 0:55:01.719 --> 0:55:04.680 lot more of this happening that we're not being that 0:55:04.719 --> 0:55:05.880 we're not being told about. 0:55:07.360 --> 0:55:09.480 And I think the the. 0:55:09.600 --> 0:55:14.920 Like brutal increase in housing probably probably was strung together 0:55:14.960 --> 0:55:18.280 in people's mind with hostility to you know, mass migration, 0:55:19.239 --> 0:55:22.600 like all these people came in and now housing prices 0:55:22.600 --> 0:55:26.400 are out of control, which I understand, like why you 0:55:26.400 --> 0:55:29.160 would intuitively kind of make make that link when you know, 0:55:29.200 --> 0:55:31.480 in fact you actually need you know, labor to build 0:55:31.520 --> 0:55:33.480 the housing that we need. Like the problem is we're 0:55:33.480 --> 0:55:36.600 not building enough housing for a growing population. But certainly 0:55:36.640 --> 0:55:39.239 if there's more people then just supply and demand is 0:55:39.239 --> 0:55:42.720 going to put some pressure on housing prices. So I 0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:44.760 you know, I think you, like you saw in Europe, 0:55:44.760 --> 0:55:48.279 you can't really disconnect some of people's you know, frustrations 0:55:48.280 --> 0:55:51.320 that they're going to then take out on immigrant. 0:55:50.840 --> 0:55:55.000 Population, especially when the Democratic Party just just just got 0:55:55.000 --> 0:55:57.400 scared and we're like, yeah, they're right, we actually are 0:55:57.440 --> 0:55:59.080 going to be even to hover on the border. And 0:55:59.160 --> 0:56:02.239 so you have both parties basically, you know, putting the 0:56:02.280 --> 0:56:05.480 same narrative of this is an invasion, This is the 0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:08.360 number one problem. These are bad people. We need to 0:56:08.400 --> 0:56:10.560 you know, Kamala Harris up there, I'm the only one 0:56:10.600 --> 0:56:14.279 who's prosecuted transnational things, et cetera. And so yeah, if 0:56:14.320 --> 0:56:19.319 both parties seemingly agree that, you know, these are criminals 0:56:19.400 --> 0:56:21.160 and they need to they need to make it, but 0:56:21.200 --> 0:56:23.680 then it must be true. And so you know who 0:56:23.719 --> 0:56:26.320 we're gonna trust more to deal with that problem, Kamala 0:56:26.320 --> 0:56:28.440 Harris or Donald Trump. I don't think there's any doubt 0:56:28.440 --> 0:56:30.759 that if you are looking for who's going to be 0:56:31.120 --> 0:56:34.480 you know, toughest and most aggressive in dealing with this 0:56:34.560 --> 0:56:37.279 problem that both parties have now come to agree, as 0:56:37.880 --> 0:56:41.239 you know, is uh through a shared frame of course, 0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:44.239 you're gonna go in Donald Trump's direction with that one. Yeah. 0:56:44.239 --> 0:56:46.160 The last point on it is, I think that'll all 0:56:46.200 --> 0:56:48.920 contributed to it. I just think it's the simplest answer 0:56:48.960 --> 0:56:51.360 in the situation, which is that we hadn't seen immigration 0:56:51.400 --> 0:56:53.960 happen at a rate as fast as the as it 0:56:54.040 --> 0:56:56.120 was Daring Biden since Alice Island. And I think that's 0:56:56.160 --> 0:56:58.640 just like it just sort of a shock to the 0:56:58.680 --> 0:57:02.040 system that made people, you know, change from what they 0:57:02.040 --> 0:57:03.800 thought under the first administration when. 0:57:04.200 --> 0:57:07.359 And we shut it down after Ellis Island for like 0:57:07.400 --> 0:57:07.959 forty years. 0:57:08.280 --> 0:57:10.319 Yeah, yeah, true, all right. 0:57:10.360 --> 0:57:13.680 I wanted to get both you guys reaction to an 0:57:13.760 --> 0:57:17.040 interesting horseshoe moment here. Let me, I don't know that 0:57:17.120 --> 0:57:18.600 much about it, so I'm gonna let you guys kind 0:57:18.640 --> 0:57:21.160 of set this up. But David Dan was tweeting about 0:57:21.160 --> 0:57:24.480 this some good news. Jim Jordan and the gpgudiciary had 0:57:24.480 --> 0:57:26.760 a surprising change of heart, had a dangerous proposals shift 0:57:26.800 --> 0:57:30.120 the ftc ANTI trust capacity to the DJ big win. 0:57:30.320 --> 0:57:33.920 Great to see a representative Jayapaul and Beca is her 0:57:34.000 --> 0:57:36.600 last name. Balen I think take a strong stand, and 0:57:36.760 --> 0:57:39.120 David Dan said, bad people with terrible political instincts tried 0:57:39.160 --> 0:57:41.320 to make a thing and of Lena Kahan taking a 0:57:41.320 --> 0:57:44.520 picture with Steve Bannon for short term political advantage. Bannon 0:57:44.640 --> 0:57:48.040 was who pounded Jordan into submission on this proposal that 0:57:48.080 --> 0:57:51.720 picture might have saved a federal agency. Ryan, give us 0:57:51.840 --> 0:57:52.640 what's going on here? 0:57:52.880 --> 0:57:53.080 Yep. 0:57:53.280 --> 0:57:55.840 Beca Ballant was my state senator when I lived in Vermont. 0:57:56.120 --> 0:57:59.760 She's now the congresswoman for the entire state of Vermont. 0:58:01.280 --> 0:58:03.640 So we have a story coming on this. It drops 0:58:03.640 --> 0:58:05.480 the news that I'm kind of sitting on. It's my fault. 0:58:05.560 --> 0:58:09.880 I haven't moved it. But basically, Jim Jordan, you know who, 0:58:09.960 --> 0:58:12.160 has been playing this and Emily can talk more about this, 0:58:12.240 --> 0:58:15.000 playing this double game for many years where you know, 0:58:15.040 --> 0:58:17.800 he bashes big tech on a cultural level and talks 0:58:17.800 --> 0:58:21.120 about how it's awful that they're trying to, you know, 0:58:21.240 --> 0:58:25.280 censor conservative speech. And meanwhile he hires a bunch of 0:58:25.280 --> 0:58:28.760 people from law firms that work for big tech or 0:58:28.880 --> 0:58:31.800 direct from big tech, or his people you know, go 0:58:31.880 --> 0:58:34.480 then work for big tech. He takes a ton of 0:58:34.520 --> 0:58:36.960 money from big Tech. They've taken well this will be 0:58:36.960 --> 0:58:39.080 in our story, but you know, enormous amounts of trips 0:58:39.080 --> 0:58:43.520 paid for by big Tech. His top tech aide left 0:58:43.640 --> 0:58:47.200 his office and then went to work for Melissa Holyoake, 0:58:47.240 --> 0:58:52.560 who is the most pro big tech FTC Commissioner. And 0:58:52.640 --> 0:58:55.959 so you know, he's been there, he's been the big 0:58:55.960 --> 0:58:58.520 tech's like best ally and as chair of the Judiciary 0:58:58.520 --> 0:59:01.600 Committee despite but he says publicly to the you know, 0:59:01.680 --> 0:59:08.200 his his MAGA base and his he put legislation out 0:59:08.480 --> 0:59:12.480 that would basically strip the FTC of all of its 0:59:12.480 --> 0:59:18.040 anti trust enforcement power a huge shot, and that that 0:59:18.040 --> 0:59:21.200 that swing was so big, like he fell out of 0:59:21.240 --> 0:59:23.960 his shoes, and it allowed it finally allowed Bannon and 0:59:24.000 --> 0:59:26.480 others to say, look, we've been telling you that this 0:59:26.520 --> 0:59:28.160 guy is actually a tody for big tech. 0:59:28.280 --> 0:59:30.000 Now now look how obvious it is. 0:59:30.600 --> 0:59:33.440 He's he's stripping the FTC of all of its anti 0:59:33.440 --> 0:59:36.400 trust power. You know, Jordan was saying, oh, it'll go 0:59:36.480 --> 0:59:39.520 to DJ and it'll be better because of that. And 0:59:39.720 --> 0:59:41.400 the reason a lot of people don't buy that is 0:59:41.440 --> 0:59:44.400 like here you've got Steve Bannon, with the powerful and 0:59:44.480 --> 0:59:48.840 beloved FTC chair Lena Kah and so it reminds me, oh, yeah, 0:59:48.880 --> 0:59:52.280 like FTC does good things, and now here's Jim Jordan 0:59:52.840 --> 0:59:55.600 trying to take away its power while it's actively going 0:59:55.640 --> 0:59:59.760 after you know, still going after big tech. So I 0:59:59.800 --> 1:00:02.760 think Jordan has kind of been exposed by this and 1:00:03.120 --> 1:00:06.640 he now backed off under pressure from Bannon. Emily, anything 1:00:06.640 --> 1:00:09.640 you want to add about the game Jordan plays in DC. 1:00:10.040 --> 1:00:13.480 No, I just add to Dane's point that actually, if 1:00:13.520 --> 1:00:16.280 Bannon hadn't done it, other people would have. And I 1:00:16.320 --> 1:00:18.040 do think that's really interesting. I was at a big 1:00:18.080 --> 1:00:21.360 anti trust, conservative anti trust event last night on the Hill, 1:00:21.520 --> 1:00:25.280 and what's the problem is there aren't as many like 1:00:25.360 --> 1:00:30.120 hardcore anti trust conservative anti trust like intellects because they 1:00:30.160 --> 1:00:32.880 haven't been groomed over the course of decades to see 1:00:32.920 --> 1:00:36.400 the world through this like Neil Brandeisian lens, which is 1:00:36.480 --> 1:00:38.439 much more common on the left for obvious reasons because 1:00:38.440 --> 1:00:43.000 it's an embrasive government power. But that's slowly, slowly changing. 1:00:43.240 --> 1:00:45.320 So what we're just seeing is kind of a power 1:00:45.320 --> 1:00:47.680 struggle tug of war because those people have a very 1:00:47.680 --> 1:00:51.120 powerful ally in Steve Bannon, but they also have powerful 1:00:51.200 --> 1:00:54.800 allies like in Mago world more broadly, which is again 1:00:54.840 --> 1:00:57.360 it's not to say that they've won the party, not 1:00:57.480 --> 1:01:01.280 even close. The Jim Jordan's are still much more common. 1:01:01.600 --> 1:01:03.880 Big Tech used to give tons of money Conservatives. It 1:01:03.960 --> 1:01:05.720 used to be a very natural marriage. They're always at 1:01:05.760 --> 1:01:08.480 sea pack having like massive parties because they were the 1:01:08.480 --> 1:01:13.240 free market's success. So it's it's changing very slowly, but 1:01:13.320 --> 1:01:15.720 it's still an uphill battle, There's no question about it. 1:01:15.760 --> 1:01:18.040 I would just say it wouldn't have only been Bannon 1:01:18.080 --> 1:01:20.680 who was an uproar about it. He's a powerful ally, 1:01:20.720 --> 1:01:22.920 but people like Mike Davis Article three Project like they 1:01:22.920 --> 1:01:25.880 would have been firing off on this too, and he was. 1:01:25.960 --> 1:01:30.919 Mike Davis appeared on Bannon's podcast and ripped Jordan over 1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:33.880 it with a with a funny pun where he said, 1:01:34.160 --> 1:01:35.680 you know, Jim Jordan loves to go to the mat 1:01:35.720 --> 1:01:36.320 for big Tech. 1:01:39.200 --> 1:01:40.280 You did there, Mike Wrestler. 1:01:40.560 --> 1:01:41.520 Guys, get it. 1:01:42.160 --> 1:01:44.560 We should We should reveal to the audience that Emily 1:01:44.680 --> 1:01:47.080 actually changed our group chat picture to be that picture 1:01:48.400 --> 1:01:48.919 so good. 1:01:49.320 --> 1:01:51.080 And you know what, I shouldn't say this, but I 1:01:51.120 --> 1:01:53.520 have been I have my like glossy photo paper for 1:01:53.640 --> 1:01:56.040 my printer, and I have been thinking of just secretly 1:01:56.080 --> 1:01:58.880 putting a framed picture of that behind us on the set, 1:01:58.920 --> 1:01:59.960 but I keep forgetting to do. 1:02:00.240 --> 1:02:01.440 Oh yeah, we need that. 1:02:02.160 --> 1:02:02.920 That's a great idea. 1:02:02.960 --> 1:02:03.920 That's such a funny picture. 1:02:05.560 --> 1:02:08.160 This is like kind of related actually, But there's been 1:02:08.360 --> 1:02:13.200 pushback led by Rand Paul to the Trump tariffs on 1:02:13.240 --> 1:02:15.640 the right as well. And this is an interesting comment 1:02:15.680 --> 1:02:18.280 from him. So he met with Trump's trade rep. Is 1:02:18.280 --> 1:02:20.560 that Navarro that he's talking about. He said, it reminded 1:02:20.600 --> 1:02:22.920 me of a meeting on industrial policy in the Soviet Union, 1:02:23.160 --> 1:02:25.040 where you have to be nice to the tsar because 1:02:25.040 --> 1:02:27.360 if you're nice to the czar, they'll bequeath upon you 1:02:27.520 --> 1:02:31.320 exceptions to the iron fist. And I mean that to 1:02:31.440 --> 1:02:33.880 me is like the whole point of these terroriffts, by 1:02:33.920 --> 1:02:36.800 and large is that it does consolidate that kind of 1:02:36.840 --> 1:02:41.480 power with the executive. But there was also some preposterous, 1:02:41.640 --> 1:02:45.200 you know, pathetic situation that unfolded in the Senate where 1:02:45.400 --> 1:02:47.880 Rand Paul was trying to push the resolution that would 1:02:47.880 --> 1:02:51.880 have you know, reclaimed power to levy terrorist which is 1:02:51.920 --> 1:02:55.280 supposed to be with Congress anyway, and was at Sheldon 1:02:55.320 --> 1:02:57.840 white House, the Democrat who's like in Korea right now, 1:02:58.000 --> 1:03:00.080 So didn't get back in time for the vote, and 1:03:00.200 --> 1:03:03.080 the vote failed forty nine forty nine, they weren't able 1:03:03.080 --> 1:03:04.800 to get you know, one more vote. 1:03:04.880 --> 1:03:07.400 So the strongest anti corruption soldier. 1:03:07.760 --> 1:03:10.600 Yeah, in any case, I thought I was I thought 1:03:10.640 --> 1:03:13.480 it was interesting Rand Paul, you know, specific like obviously 1:03:13.520 --> 1:03:17.320 this is right in his ideological wheelhouse, and this is 1:03:17.320 --> 1:03:19.520 a bridge too far for him to go. 1:03:20.960 --> 1:03:23.480 My sense is that so it was with Jamison Greer, 1:03:23.480 --> 1:03:25.320 I think is who he met, so the ustr OK 1:03:25.520 --> 1:03:27.520 and I think they. 1:03:27.480 --> 1:03:30.800 Are Borrow's official title. I don't know, it's like serious 1:03:31.040 --> 1:03:36.680 or something. Senior crank. What about what is the what 1:03:36.800 --> 1:03:39.680 is his pend of ron? What's the fake name? 1:03:39.720 --> 1:03:42.360 Oh yeah, what's his official title? 1:03:42.720 --> 1:03:44.160 Is his name? Yeah? 1:03:44.200 --> 1:03:47.320 Somebody have to tell us in the comments because he's 1:03:47.320 --> 1:03:49.760 got a fake advisor that he pretends Vera. 1:03:49.920 --> 1:03:52.880 Isn't that it? I think that's it? Yeah. 1:03:53.000 --> 1:03:54.720 First of all, this is great news for you guys 1:03:54.760 --> 1:03:58.880 that the power is being consolidated in a dear leader 1:03:59.480 --> 1:04:02.320 communist type system. I think this is somebody them that 1:04:02.360 --> 1:04:08.240 you guys is going to do a great job, perhaps 1:04:08.240 --> 1:04:12.520 better than comrade Navarro. But though I think Greer is 1:04:12.560 --> 1:04:16.800 in a situation himself where his tariff policy, because everyone 1:04:16.840 --> 1:04:19.040 remembers the famous moment where he found out that Trump 1:04:19.080 --> 1:04:22.919 had instituted the pause while he was testifying. I think 1:04:23.560 --> 1:04:26.920 where Rand Paul is interpreting this from Greer is that 1:04:26.960 --> 1:04:29.320 Greer is interpreting this from his own boss, which is 1:04:29.440 --> 1:04:32.400 I'm the freaking boss. And so if you're James and Greer, 1:04:32.440 --> 1:04:35.120 and you have to be the intermediary between Congress, which 1:04:35.120 --> 1:04:36.760 are supposed to have this power, which is why you 1:04:36.760 --> 1:04:40.840 also have Rand Paul making the weirdest like horseshoe in 1:04:40.880 --> 1:04:43.280 the opposite direction ever, with like Susan Collins and Lisa 1:04:43.320 --> 1:04:46.040 Murkowski and Chruck Schumer. It's sort of amusing to see 1:04:46.040 --> 1:04:51.160 that happen. But you also then have Greer having to 1:04:51.200 --> 1:04:54.080 communicate the policy is just whatever Trump says the policy is, 1:04:54.120 --> 1:04:57.200 because that is ultimately what the policy is. So good luck. 1:04:57.360 --> 1:04:58.439 That sounds like fun. 1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:02.720 Yeah, well we've already seen that, right, Like you know, 1:05:03.040 --> 1:05:05.200 the people who are giving money to the inauguration and 1:05:05.240 --> 1:05:07.280 paying to go down to mar A Lago and the 1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:10.800 Nvidia guy had you know, paid however many millions to 1:05:10.840 --> 1:05:12.480 get dinner with him, and then they get their car 1:05:12.560 --> 1:05:17.040 downd et cetera. So and apparently actually Gretchen Whitmer humiliating 1:05:17.040 --> 1:05:21.040 herself and ending up in these photoshoots with Trump has 1:05:21.080 --> 1:05:23.880 paid some benefits for her getting some of the auto 1:05:23.960 --> 1:05:26.280 teriffs rolled back, and that Sean Fain also being sort 1:05:26.280 --> 1:05:28.520 of favorable on the auto tariffs, I think has also 1:05:28.600 --> 1:05:31.200 given him an in to get some of these exemptions 1:05:31.200 --> 1:05:34.479 and rollbacks on the auto tariffs as well. So, yeah, 1:05:34.600 --> 1:05:37.480 that is that is definitely the system that we have 1:05:37.600 --> 1:05:39.200 right now. You have to go and plead your case 1:05:39.240 --> 1:05:41.040 to the King if you're going to have any chance 1:05:41.080 --> 1:05:43.600 of survival, and of course, you know to go back 1:05:43.640 --> 1:05:45.920 to the monopoly point. Who's going to be able to 1:05:45.960 --> 1:05:47.880 do that? It's going to be the big companies. If 1:05:47.880 --> 1:05:50.280 you're smaller, medium sized business, you're not going to have 1:05:50.320 --> 1:05:52.200 that access. You're not gonna have the money to obtain 1:05:52.240 --> 1:05:54.320 that access. You're not going to have the lobbyist to 1:05:54.320 --> 1:05:56.040 be able to plead your case. You're not even going 1:05:56.120 --> 1:05:58.280 to have if you're a small business, you're not even 1:05:58.320 --> 1:06:00.280 gonna have the wherewithal to be able to all of 1:06:00.320 --> 1:06:04.480 the day to day changes in the tariff and regulatory regime, 1:06:04.800 --> 1:06:07.280 which that in and of itself puts you at risk 1:06:07.400 --> 1:06:10.240 because you are struggling to be able to comply with 1:06:10.320 --> 1:06:13.600 whatever the dictators of the day. So I do think 1:06:13.680 --> 1:06:17.400 one of the impacts of these tariffs is going to be, 1:06:17.800 --> 1:06:23.240 you know, a further consolidation among the big players at 1:06:23.280 --> 1:06:26.920 the expense of small and medium sized businesses who do 1:06:27.000 --> 1:06:30.360 not have the flexibility to adapt or the access to 1:06:30.400 --> 1:06:31.920 be able to get their car buns. 1:06:32.240 --> 1:06:34.400 And the irony, of course, is that the small and 1:06:34.480 --> 1:06:40.560 medium sized businesses are much more American, much more patriotic 1:06:40.720 --> 1:06:43.040 to an extent, because they have been an. 1:06:43.000 --> 1:06:46.960 Important Republican base. I mean that's like the Republican Party. 1:06:47.160 --> 1:06:51.640 Yeah, it has been, yes, since since the fifties or whatever, yes, 1:06:52.680 --> 1:06:58.640 even before that. And the big companies are multinational corporations 1:06:58.680 --> 1:07:02.960 with no real allegiance to the UNI estates. So I 1:07:03.000 --> 1:07:04.200 don't know what they think they're doing. 1:07:04.920 --> 1:07:06.880 Yeah, no, that's all that is all well said. 1:07:06.920 --> 1:07:08.640 All right, I wanted to get you guys reaction to 1:07:08.680 --> 1:07:11.880 this kind of extraordinary moment with Tucker Carlson and Matt 1:07:11.920 --> 1:07:14.160 Walsh here. All right, guys, thank you so much for 1:07:14.240 --> 1:07:16.400 watching the free portion of the Friday Show. We're going 1:07:16.480 --> 1:07:19.200 to move into some premium bonus content, so if you 1:07:19.240 --> 1:07:21.240 want to watch that as well, make sure to go 1:07:21.320 --> 1:07:24.520 and subscribe at Breakingpoints dot com. And for all of 1:07:24.560 --> 1:07:27.080 you guys who are already premium subscribers, that portion is 1:07:27.080 --> 1:07:27.880 going to start right now,