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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know

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Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot com? Hey, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and with me as always

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Speaker 1: as Charles W. Chuck Bryant, which makes this stuff You

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Speaker 1: should know the podcast because Chuck and I are the

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Speaker 1: hosts of that hostesses no hosts, yep, Chuck, Yes, how

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Speaker 1: are you? I'm great, man, How are you? I'm fine.

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Speaker 1: It's you and I and Matt our guest producer Maddie

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Speaker 1: and alone in this entire building. Yeah. This it's uh,

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Speaker 1: the Friday before Memorial Day. Yeah, Friday afternoon even and

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Speaker 1: it's pretty empty in here, Yes it is. There's lots

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Speaker 1: of echoes that we're gonna have to adjust for and post.

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Speaker 1: Do we do post anymore? Is this like basically this

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Speaker 1: live to tape? At least we're not getting a hateful

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Speaker 1: stay or since we walked through the office. Yeah, it's refreshing,

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Speaker 1: so Chuck, as you know, I grew up in Ohio.

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Speaker 1: I was hoping you've mentioned this. Well, I grew up

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Speaker 1: in Ohio. Your hopes are are fulfilled. Well, another reason

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Speaker 1: why well, Um, it turns out I recently learned from

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Speaker 1: this article on how the underground Railroad, how the underground

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Speaker 1: railroad worked. We talked about how this is gonna be problematic.

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Speaker 1: Um that an estimated half of all underground railroad workers. Um,

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Speaker 1: we're from Ohio or lived in Ohio. We're part of Ohio.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea that, but reading that it makes

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Speaker 1: sense because that was such a part of my um

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Speaker 1: upbringing as a child. Everybody's house that was built in

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Speaker 1: like the nineteenth or eighteenth century had like an oh,

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Speaker 1: this is where they kept the freed slaves in the

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Speaker 1: underground road road. Everybody's house had like a little spot

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Speaker 1: that supposedly was part of the underground road heritage or

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Speaker 1: some real some were um are believable than others. But

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Speaker 1: normally it was like a public building or like a

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Speaker 1: National Historic registered building that like they gave tours to

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Speaker 1: that was part of the underground railroad. But like everybody's

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Speaker 1: house like had like a little spot in the basement

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Speaker 1: where like, yes, consumably human beings could stand here and

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Speaker 1: and uh you know, hide out. But yeah, I see,

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Georgia, so that we didn't have

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Speaker 1: those talks no, And apparently in this article the author

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Speaker 1: points out and I don't know where she got this,

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Speaker 1: but um, that there's there's still blemishes on families who

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Speaker 1: were known to have helped slaves on the underground road

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Speaker 1: road in the South still today. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: she's talking about I thought that was completely out of

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Speaker 1: left field. It was I grew up in and have

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Speaker 1: never heard anybody be like, yeah, that guy that lived

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Speaker 1: down the street, their family used to hide slaves. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that's not true. So so, um, but you you

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Speaker 1: were familiar with the underground railroad before this article. I was,

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Speaker 1: But it's a good time to point out that not

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Speaker 1: nearly enough, because black history is so glossed over in

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Speaker 1: American schools except in February, except in February, and it's

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Speaker 1: still even in February that I went through all my

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Speaker 1: schooling with just knowing like there was an underground railroad

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Speaker 1: and Harriet Tubman ran it and that's it. Period. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: never learned about Malcolm X. I think dread Scott may

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Speaker 1: have been mentioned briefly, but yeah, it's very sad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully that's changed some since then. Well for the

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Speaker 1: listeners who had similar experiences. Um, we're about to remedy

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Speaker 1: that because we're gonna tell you not only how it worked,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna tell you in so much detail that you

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Speaker 1: could conceivably go start your own right now, right. And

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Speaker 1: there are some still around today. Yes. Human trafficking is

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Speaker 1: the new word for UM slavery basically um where it

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Speaker 1: usually it's forced into sex work right um. And there

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Speaker 1: are groups who are dedicated to freeing sex workers from

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Speaker 1: fourth labor. They're called Polaris, which is renaming of the

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Speaker 1: North Star. Yeah. Um. And then and others. We should

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Speaker 1: do a podcast on human trafficking. I think we have

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Speaker 1: a good article on that that Molly wrote, if I'm

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Speaker 1: not mistaken. Oh really yeah, okay, you're ready, Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: do it all right, so chuck. Um. Basically, the the

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Speaker 1: origins of the underground railroad, which was the network by

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Speaker 1: which escaped slaves ran along to freedom, almost always to

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Speaker 1: Canada if they were going north. As it turns out,

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Speaker 1: UM probably started before the eighteen twenties. Um, but it

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Speaker 1: couldn't have possibly been called the underground road road until

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Speaker 1: after the eighteen twenties because the actual railroad system wasn't

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Speaker 1: invented until them either that or they were like way

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Speaker 1: ahead of their time, but it may have had some

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Speaker 1: sort of name. And we know that there were groups

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Speaker 1: of people who were formed for the common purpose of

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Speaker 1: aiding escaped slaves to go secure freedom, to get out

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Speaker 1: of the South, or get out of a slave state

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Speaker 1: into protection in a non slave state. Because George Washington

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Speaker 1: complained about it in a letter in seventeen eighty six

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Speaker 1: that he suspected some Quakers that helped some of his

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Speaker 1: slaves escape. He was probably right on the money, tail, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because Quakers were one of the earliest members of the

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Speaker 1: underground Railroad and they were the um most trusted because

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Speaker 1: they were so recognizable and everybody knew, hey, Quakers will

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Speaker 1: help you out. Definitely the most trusted white people for sure. Um.

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Speaker 1: We but we should probably point out, um, the reason

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Speaker 1: everybody went to Canada was because there was a federal

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Speaker 1: law in the US. Right, that's right. What was it called.

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Speaker 1: It was called the Fugitive Slave Act of seventeen ninety three,

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Speaker 1: and uh, it was around since seventeen ninety three, but

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Speaker 1: it really got its teeth in eighteen fifty when it's

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Speaker 1: strengthened the fines and basically made um helping a slave

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Speaker 1: escape a federal crime, and then uh in non slave

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Speaker 1: states as well, and uh pretty much meant if you

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Speaker 1: were caught as a slave, you were going to be

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Speaker 1: put to death and likely tortured in a public place.

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Speaker 1: And maybe even your slave family or friends that you

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Speaker 1: were with on the plantation were also punished, even though

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Speaker 1: they didn't try to escape. So anyone involved in this

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Speaker 1: and even not being involved, but being involved by relationship

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Speaker 1: or something like that, UM, really had a lot to

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Speaker 1: lose from this one person making it to freedom, which

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Speaker 1: really um is it's just very heartening when you look

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Speaker 1: back on what these people did. They risked a lot.

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Speaker 1: Um in the eighteen fifties stiffening of the Slave Act, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: if you armed a slave, which was routinely done because

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Speaker 1: this is dangerous, UM, then you were subject to execution,

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Speaker 1: no matter who you were, white, black, whatever um that

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Speaker 1: was that was punishable by being executed. So people who

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Speaker 1: were helping escape slaves were putting a lot on the line,

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Speaker 1: right Yeah. And and one of the myths, there's a

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Speaker 1: few myths that even this article kind of uh perpetuates

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Speaker 1: a bit, but um rarely or not rarely, but more

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Speaker 1: often than not, they were other black people or former

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Speaker 1: slaves or current slaves helping the other slaves on the

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Speaker 1: underground railroad. It was not a big happy group of

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Speaker 1: white northern abolitionists risking their life to help out the slaves.

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Speaker 1: They did that some, but it was usually quakers um

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Speaker 1: or you know, like I said before, slaves or former slaves. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that's one myth. There's a few others. Well, let's

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Speaker 1: go through this. What what did it an escape look

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Speaker 1: like right along the underground railroad during its height in

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Speaker 1: the mid nineteenth century. Uh, what would happen was free

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Speaker 1: black people would send a field agent, what they called

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Speaker 1: the field agent um. It was a lot of times

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Speaker 1: a minister or a doctor posing as like a census

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Speaker 1: taker to anybody who could move throughout a community undetected.

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Speaker 1: So they would make contact with a current slave who

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Speaker 1: supposedly wanted to escape, and they had to gain their trust,

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Speaker 1: because this whole thing was about trust. You really had

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Speaker 1: to trust because people would sell out their own own

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Speaker 1: kind to gain favor with with the master sometimes, so

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Speaker 1: sometimes you couldn't even trust your fellow slave, so you

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Speaker 1: really had to gain their trust as the field agent

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Speaker 1: and then they would eventually, once that trust was gained,

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Speaker 1: arranged for the escape from the plantation to travel to

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Speaker 1: the first safe house to a conductor. Actually, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: they passed along to the conductor who would take you

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Speaker 1: to your first station. Yes, and that was the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the journey, right. And the station was basically somebody's

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Speaker 1: house usually yeah, um, and the head of the household

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Speaker 1: as a station master. And that was somebody who was

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Speaker 1: putting his life, in the life of his family's on

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Speaker 1: the line, feed and housed and hide this person for

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Speaker 1: a little while. Um, possibly set him up with the disguise,

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Speaker 1: which um they got fairly Um. Yes, there's there's a

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Speaker 1: story of one in a UM apparently with a seminal

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Speaker 1: work on the Underground Railroad appropriately titled The Underground Railroad,

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Speaker 1: written by Wilburt Sea Bird right, and he talks about how, um,

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Speaker 1: a black woman was basically made up to look like

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Speaker 1: a wealthy white woman and to complete this disguise, was

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Speaker 1: given a white baby, um too for her journey. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So people were, you know, fanatic about this. I read

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Speaker 1: another one, UM, a couple from Savannah. Um. The woman

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Speaker 1: was the daughter of the slave, her slave owner and

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Speaker 1: her mother was a slave, a house servant ever, UM.

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Speaker 1: So she was light skinned, so they had her pose

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Speaker 1: as a frail, aging white man, and her husband posed

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Speaker 1: as like a you know, a loyal servant slave UM

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Speaker 1: on their journey all the way from Savanna to I

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Speaker 1: think Philadelphia or Boston. UM. But yeah, that was kind

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Speaker 1: of harrowing. Apparently they were almost found out a bunch

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Speaker 1: of times. Yeah, so I can imagine, like just trying

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Speaker 1: to escape through the woods is scary enough, trying to

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Speaker 1: escape disguised in plain sight has to just be nerve racking,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially the lady with a white baby, because

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Speaker 1: I imagine that whoever might have found her out would

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Speaker 1: not have been too happy about that at the time.

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Speaker 1: At least along the way if you did maybe encounter

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Speaker 1: a train conductor who found you out but was willing

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Speaker 1: to keep his mouth shut for money, you needed money.

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Speaker 1: Most slaves didn't have money because they were not paid um.

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Speaker 1: And uh this was I guess at the station. The

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Speaker 1: station master might also hook you up with some money

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Speaker 1: that came from what are called stockholders UM. And stockholders

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Speaker 1: were probably wealthy abolitionists who didn't really want to get

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Speaker 1: their hands dirty. But we're happy to support the cause financially. True, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I didn't get I mean, were they just people

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Speaker 1: who supported the cause basically financially, yeah, but you know

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Speaker 1: obviously in their in their hearts as well. Uh, now

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Speaker 1: I know what you mean. Though they didn't risk you know,

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Speaker 1: walking people through the woods. No. And abolitionists, despite you know,

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Speaker 1: they're they're desire to end slavery were frequently accused, and

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Speaker 1: rightfully so in a lot of cases of you know, saying, well,

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Speaker 1: we we think slavery is vomitable, but you're freed, and

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Speaker 1: that's great, but go live over there. We still want

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Speaker 1: to just have our very lily white parties and lives

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Speaker 1: and all that. Um. And there were a lot of

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Speaker 1: abolitions like that. So I would imagine that just giving

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Speaker 1: money two people to use for bribes or for travel

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Speaker 1: or you know, to support these station houses probably really

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Speaker 1: you know, hit home. It's the same thing today, like

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Speaker 1: people don't go help like, say, the homeless, you're resolving

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Speaker 1: your guilt, they give money to, you know, organizations that

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Speaker 1: actually deal with the homeless. I think that this was

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Speaker 1: very similar to that. I think you're probably right. Uh, runaways,

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Speaker 1: um usually didn't travel alone, although again I read somewhere

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Speaker 1: else on on one of the websites that a lot

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Speaker 1: of times they were alone. Um, But when they weren't,

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Speaker 1: they would have a conductor guide them to the next station,

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Speaker 1: usually about a day away. They didn't want to make

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Speaker 1: it like, you know, a three day journey because it

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Speaker 1: just you know, you you probably don't have tons of

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Speaker 1: food and water, and it's just more dangerous the further

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Speaker 1: you're going, right, not between station houses. The journey itself

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Speaker 1: to freedom last days, weeks, months. Yeah, each each station

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Speaker 1: was about a day away. Ideally they would follow the

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Speaker 1: north Star. Yeah, that's that's why that one, um modern hilarious. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why it's called that circle. When the clouds were out. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's the old trick of looking where the moss grows

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Speaker 1: because on tree trunks, moss usually grows on the north side,

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Speaker 1: and you wanted to be headed north. There were instances

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Speaker 1: where because they made it a very zig zagging route

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Speaker 1: usually you know, they didn't want to make it a

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Speaker 1: straight line. So it made it easier to track, but

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Speaker 1: it also made it easier to get lost as a slave.

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Speaker 1: It did. And actually there's a sidebar towards the end

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Speaker 1: of this talking about quilt patterns and there are codes

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Speaker 1: embedded within. I I found a substantial amount of it.

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Speaker 1: Rele see, I found stuff saying that was like mythical

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Speaker 1: that in the songs. Check out um os black history

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Speaker 1: dot com. They have this list, this key of like

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Speaker 1: what all of these different quilt patterns are and what

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Speaker 1: they meant. Um two slaves who came upon a quilt

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Speaker 1: and one of them was this um kind of zigzagged X.

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Speaker 1: It's called them the drunken Path And basically it's saying

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Speaker 1: like going his zigzag pattern because there's guys out there's

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Speaker 1: slave hunters around, and if you say turned started walking south,

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Speaker 1: they would be less likely to suspect that you were

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Speaker 1: an escaped slave if you look like you were purposefully

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Speaker 1: walking south, because what slave walk south? That's where the

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Speaker 1: south is, right, right? But I mean, if it is

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Speaker 1: made up, this guy did a good job of perpetuating

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Speaker 1: it because it's very interesting. Well, even in here it

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Speaker 1: says it's it's one of the well known legends or not.

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Speaker 1: They just don't know because a lot of this stuff,

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Speaker 1: and it's good that you bring that up. A lot

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Speaker 1: we don't know about because the underground railroad was secret,

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Speaker 1: so we don't know about a lot of the places.

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Speaker 1: We don't know a lot of the routes or the

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Speaker 1: people who worked there, or who actually started it. Oh

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Speaker 1: and Josh also I mentioned the moss on the trees.

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Speaker 1: Clear knights were better to see the stars, but traveling

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Speaker 1: in the rain was pretty good too, because fat white

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Speaker 1: plantation owner probably wanted to be inside by the fire

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Speaker 1: when it was raining and not chasing after his slaves.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about um the laws. We we mentioned

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Speaker 1: it kind of specifically UM earlier about some of the

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Speaker 1: I guess the punishment that that could befall anyone helping somebody, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: And in see the Fugitive Slave Act, UM basically created

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Speaker 1: the first laws that said this an escape slave can

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Speaker 1: be gone and gotten legally. Right. But there were slave

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Speaker 1: states and there were non slave states, and the non

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Speaker 1: slave states said, well, yeah, that's a great law, and

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Speaker 1: you do whatever you want down in the South, but

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Speaker 1: we're not really going to enforce it, and when we do,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be very light. Well, in eighteen fifty,

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Speaker 1: this thing got a lot of teeth, um, like you

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Speaker 1: were saying, and the fines were that were stepped up.

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Speaker 1: The penalties were harsher execution. UM was it was a

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Speaker 1: lot more UM doable, I guess. And then um, it

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Speaker 1: also became illegal for slave hunters to walk into a

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Speaker 1: free state, a non slave state and be like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: that black guy right there, I think he's an escaped slave.

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Speaker 1: He should come with me to anybody he could legally

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Speaker 1: claim it without having to justify even if they were

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Speaker 1: free men. Yes, um. And apparently there were rumors of

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Speaker 1: like slave traders like luring um, young black kids in

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Speaker 1: free states onto boats and then like taking them off

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Speaker 1: to the Deep South. It's like, what are you gonna do?

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Speaker 1: How are you gonna find these people? There's no documentation

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Speaker 1: like this. Um. So basically the North came to really

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Speaker 1: resent this change in the law in eighteen fifty because

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Speaker 1: people who were complacent living in non slave states suddenly

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Speaker 1: we're kind of having slavery imposed upon them a little more.

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Speaker 1: And then the dread Scott case like you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: that really sealed the deal and really got abolitionists. UM.

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Speaker 1: I guess their their roles expanded tremendously after that. And

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Speaker 1: then as a result, also the underground railroad became much

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Speaker 1: more organized yeah, that is dread Scott v. Sandford, and uh.

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Speaker 1: It was famous because dread Scott, a slave, sued for

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Speaker 1: his freedom for himself and his wife and his two daughters,

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Speaker 1: and on the grounds that they lived quite a bit

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Speaker 1: of their lives in places like Wisconsin and Minnesota, in

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Speaker 1: these outlying Northwest territories that or northern territories that had

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Speaker 1: where it was illegal. Slavery was actually illegal. So he

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Speaker 1: sued on those grounds, and in one of probably the

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Speaker 1: worst Supreme Court decisions in the history of this country,

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Speaker 1: they decided because the panel was full of Southerners. The

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Speaker 1: panel Supreme Court justices were a lot of Southerners, and

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Speaker 1: they ruled it Black people were not or people of

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Speaker 1: African descent were not citizens of the United States, free

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Speaker 1: or not, they are not citizens. Therefore they cannot sue

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Speaker 1: for their freedom right. They don't have any rights, so

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Speaker 1: they can be basically captured and taken to yes, a

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Speaker 1: life of slavery again. But if it hadn't been for

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Speaker 1: the dread Scott case, we may never have well we

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Speaker 1: may have, but it really sped up the process of

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Speaker 1: the Thirteenth Amendment in the Emancipation Proclamation, and hence the

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Speaker 1: Civil War and hence the Civil War, and some of

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Speaker 1: his descendants still live in St. Louis today. Well, shout

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Speaker 1: out to the Scots of St. Louis. UM and Chuck,

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Speaker 1: we said that this this um precipitated the Civil War.

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Speaker 1: The underground railroad helped move it along. The dread Scott case.

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Speaker 1: It it basically these things, Um, Northerners actively subverting federal law. UM.

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Speaker 1: And the South economic cloud really ticked the South off

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Speaker 1: the the South imposing its views on slavery on the

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Speaker 1: North through this eighteen fifty strengthening and the dread Scott case. UM,

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Speaker 1: it really ticked off the North. So this division was

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Speaker 1: was Um. It's very much part of what led up

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Speaker 1: to the Civil War. Yeah, pencil any even I thought

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Speaker 1: about ah nullifying the Fugitive Slave Act. They didn't like

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Speaker 1: it so much, But then they decided, you know, a

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Speaker 1: better way to do this. It's probably to be subversive

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Speaker 1: and to support things like the underground railroad on the

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Speaker 1: down low, rather than cause some big political snake write

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Speaker 1: a check. Exactly right. Um. So we say that because

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Speaker 1: the Civil Wars. Whenever you ask a kid, you know

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Speaker 1: why the Civil War happened? So slavery. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: a that's a big part of it. But that's why

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Speaker 1: it's not just slavery. It wasn't like the North was like,

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Speaker 1: slavery is wrong and we're gonna go to war with

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Speaker 1: you over it, or the South was like, we love slavery,

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Speaker 1: We're not part of you any longer. Although the latter

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Speaker 1: I've heard recently was um much closer to the point

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Speaker 1: that the South was perfectly happy with succeeding creating its

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Speaker 1: own country and basically creating an economic empire based on

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Speaker 1: free labor, that that took over the entire Caribbean, and

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Speaker 1: that the Southern US. Yeah, I wish I was more

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Speaker 1: of a civil war. Buff. I'm glad you're not. Chuck. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're I wouldn't say obnoxious, but man, do they know

340
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Speaker 1: a lot about the Civil War and they like correcting

341
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Speaker 1: people too. Yeah, and we're going to hear from them,

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Speaker 1: so Chuck. Um. When you did finally make it out

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Speaker 1: along this this route um up to the northern the

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Speaker 1: extreme Northern States, the northern part of the Extreme Northern States,

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Speaker 1: and to Canada. Um, it could take days, weeks, months,

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Speaker 1: It could take twenty four hours if you happen to

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Speaker 1: have the money and the gaul to ride a train,

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Speaker 1: or if you live in a border state. Yeah, which

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Speaker 1: apparently is why a lot of slaves never escaped from

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Speaker 1: the Deep South. It was longer ago, and they didn't.

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Speaker 1: They wouldn't have taken the underground railroad which went exclusively north.

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Speaker 1: I believe they would have gone to Florida or to Mexico.

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Speaker 1: Never knew that. So Mexico in eighty nine outlawed slavery

354
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Speaker 1: and became active in protecting slaves who escaped to Mexico. Yeah.

355
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Speaker 1: Native American Indians go figure, we're very empathetic. They were

356
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Speaker 1: probably like, join the club, my man, come on in

357
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Speaker 1: almost literally chuck so in Florida in Spain said we're

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Speaker 1: issuing a decree here that says any any slave or

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Speaker 1: Native American who leaves an English colony and makes it

360
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Speaker 1: to Florida is a free Floridian, a free a free

361
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Speaker 1: member of the Spanish crown. Right right. All we want

362
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Speaker 1: from you is that you convert to a Catholic convert

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Speaker 1: to Catholicism, and become a member of the military for

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Speaker 1: a prescribed amount of time, right um, And in return,

365
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Speaker 1: you're a citizen here, right. So that's why Florida attracted

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people. And the reason they did it

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Speaker 1: was specifically to attract people from um England, the English

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Speaker 1: territories like Georgia or South Carolina, because they wanted to

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Speaker 1: jump start the economic engine, but they weren't going to

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Speaker 1: do it on slavery. Right. I wonder what impact that

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Speaker 1: has today. I wonder if there are more are African

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Speaker 1: American Catholics in Florida proportionately because of that. Well, one

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Speaker 1: of the impacts that it had that's still around the

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Speaker 1: day are the Seminoles. The Seminoles were a recent tribe

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Speaker 1: that started in about the eighteenth century um based on

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Speaker 1: displaced Creek Indians who made it to Florida to take

377
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Speaker 1: Spain up on their offer and escaped slaves. And now

378
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Speaker 1: there's a division in the Seminole tribe between Black Seminoles

379
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Speaker 1: and Red Seminoles, and it's not they don't always get along.

380
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Speaker 1: But during this time, the Seminole Indians came up because

381
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Speaker 1: in a lot of cases, black slaves, freed slaves or

382
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Speaker 1: escaped slaves would come up to an Indian Indian sentiment,

383
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Speaker 1: lived near it or be absorbed into it and that's

384
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Speaker 1: where the seminoles came from. That's pretty cool, didn't it.

385
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Speaker 1: There's really one jerk in this whole thing, and that's

386
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Speaker 1: that's Yeah, our ancestors. They were white Northerners too. It's

387
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Speaker 1: not all in the South, white jerk, white Northerners probably.

388
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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, Anyway, I'm just always stick up for the South. Well,

389
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Speaker 1: think about it that there were an estimated two thousand

390
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Speaker 1: to three thousand underground railroad workers there. There are a

391
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Speaker 1: lot more people in the US and the North and

392
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Speaker 1: the South than that at the time. Buddy. Yeah, that's

393
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: a good point. Uh. It is interesting though to me

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Speaker 1: that you said Canada, because that was where many of

395
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Speaker 1: them ended up. And I never knew that. I never

396
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Speaker 1: knew that. And it made sense because why go to Pennsylvania,

397
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Speaker 1: even though they're sympathetic to a certain degree, when the

398
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Speaker 1: Fugitive Slave Act still is hanging over my head and

399
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Speaker 1: somebody could turn me in for some dough if they

400
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Speaker 1: wanted to. Yeah, let's just go to Canada where they

401
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: don't care and they don't have those laws. Plus, I mean,

402
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Speaker 1: it's not like you're gonna just stop in Detroit. You're

403
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Speaker 1: gonna be like, oh no, I'm gonna keep moving to Canada.

404
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Speaker 1: So we were saying that there there was some involvement

405
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Speaker 1: by some people. There was UM separate involvement, disconnected involvement, whatever.

406
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Speaker 1: But some of the people, some of these abolitionists UM

407
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Speaker 1: and freed slaves UM and escaped slave who have made

408
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 1: lives for themselves UM formed in these northern non slave

409
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Speaker 1: states and enclaves of where where of an escaped slave

410
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 1: can feel very free, like Boston, Philadelphia, UM, I think

411
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Speaker 1: New York. Um. They formed these things called vigilance committees. Right, Yeah,

412
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Speaker 1: it's very nice. They provided like some protection for them, uh,

413
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Speaker 1: try to get them work, try to get them a

414
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Speaker 1: place to live. And so you know, it's just sort

415
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: of like, hey, now you're you're safe now, and we're

416
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Speaker 1: gonna help you set up life as an American. Yeah,

417
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Speaker 1: and get something that everyone in this country should be

418
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Speaker 1: born with, which is freedom. Right. And here's a credit

419
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: card to enslave you in a different way that came

420
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Speaker 1: later and that touched all races. It did, so, Chuck,

421
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Speaker 1: there's um one one person who kind of rose above

422
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Speaker 1: all others as far as the underground railroad went. And

423
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Speaker 1: her name was Harriet Tubman. She was, she wasn't. It

424
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Speaker 1: is still referred to as the Moses of for people. Yeah,

425
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Speaker 1: it is not a cliche to bring up Harriet Tubman,

426
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Speaker 1: as you know, like, of course you're gonna bring up

427
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: ry Tubman. Of course we are, because she was the

428
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: Moses of her people, and she was an escaped slave

429
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: from Maryland, and very sadly I went back to get

430
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: her family and helped them escape. Found her husband had

431
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: a new wife, and he was like, yeah, um to

432
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: stay here. Yeah, and she wasn't too happy with that, clearly,

433
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: so she reportedly books say, um kind of hardened her

434
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: a little bit, which in the end helped her because

435
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: you sort of needed a bit of a hard heart

436
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: to lead people on the underground railroad. You didn't need

437
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: whiners and criers and people that would draw attention and

438
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: make noise. Yeah. Apparently she would threaten to kill people

439
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: if they didn't shut up. Yeah, like, quiet down, I'm

440
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: trying to get you to freedom. Just shut up about

441
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: it was her was her motto, officially, I think, And

442
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: she was individually probably the most successful uh conductor on

443
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: the underground railroad, right, Yeah, I think uh at least

444
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: seventy slaves um that she led to freedom to New

445
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: York and Canada personally thirteen journeys, and these are long trips.

446
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: We'll think about it. Also, she's an escaped slave. She

447
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: goes back into slave states thirteen times to guide people out.

448
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: She bad, She's a big bad mama. She Uh. She

449
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: went on to serve as a spy, as a scout,

450
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 1: and a nurse for the Union Army and received no

451
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: military wartime pension for that, even though she was Harriet

452
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: Tubman and um went on to sell fruits and vegetables

453
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: door to door. You're joking, and wrote a book and

454
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: lived off profits from her book. She actually made money

455
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: off of which is good the US as a Yeah, so, Chuck,

456
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 1: you want to talk about how many people were let out?

457
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: We were. We We mentioned Harriet Tubman l at least

458
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: seventy personally. UM and estimates very wildly as to how

459
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: many people escaped. UM. As we said, the heyday of

460
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: the underground road road was eighteen twenties to the eighteen

461
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: sixties day. UM. Some some people maintain about a hundred

462
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: thousand people escaped, which is that's huge. UM. On the

463
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: other end, UH, the journal Black Studies estimates of between

464
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty and sixty UM, only about two thousand people

465
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: escaped via underground road road. The National Park Service settled

466
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle and says, yeah, let's say a

467
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: thousand per year. But again it's very secretive. People have

468
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: no idea who was who, whether a house really was

469
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: a stop. There are some places that are most decidedly

470
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: UM parts of the underground road road that are still

471
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: around today, like the Dobbin Horse Tavern and Gettysburg, Pennsylvania

472
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: has movable bookcase that people used to hide in. It

473
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: was a house at the time, UM. But because of

474
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: the secrecy, because of the success of it of it, UM,

475
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 1: we we have no idea you know, who was a

476
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: part of it, who wasn't. And that's pretty neat, I think.

477
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: But there's the National Park Services really spent a lot

478
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: of time and effort and money so far UM figuring out,

479
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: you know, where the underground railroad ran and who is

480
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: a part of it, and what buildings were going to

481
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: preserve the buildings and there's a there's actually a bike

482
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: um trail that you can ride I think, or something

483
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: like that along established identified underground railroad routes. Yeah, pretty cool.

484
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: You know you. I just wanted to point out when

485
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: you said the our checkered history, America's checkered history. I

486
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: still feel England's stank on this. Yeah, that was early

487
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: enough to wear. It wasn't like you know, rednecks from

488
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: the south this. These are still like English fops doing

489
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: this stuff. So I blame England, You blame England. I'm

490
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: trying to figure out when my my line is drawn

491
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: and when I'm saying this was America because even after

492
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: the Revolutionary where it was still just people from England

493
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: living here. Okay, so England is your fault. Take that

494
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: to England and it's Canada the big hero to you

495
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: and this. Yeah, of course, man, you know that's still

496
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: a territory of the English crown. Yeah to you on

497
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: that one, pal, I don't know what to think. Um

498
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: so wait, wait before we go, we have to mention

499
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: John Brown. We talked about how like a lot of

500
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: people were like, here's some money, I'll be a stockholder

501
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: in the underground road road and impress my friends. John

502
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: Brown walked the walk he lived in like freed black colonies.

503
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: He um, if he didn't do it himself, he oversaw

504
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: the murder of five unarmed pro slavery UM settlers in Kansas,

505
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: which is up for grabs between slavery and in a

506
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: non slavery state. UM. And he basically turned into a

507
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: guerrilla and staged raids on pro slavery settlements and killed

508
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: lots of people. UM. And then he staged with the

509
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,239
Speaker 1: raid on Harper's ferry uh and was eventually caught and

510
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: hanged for it. But he was as far as the

511
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: abolitionists go, he was like, um, he he was, I

512
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: guess you could say equal to Harriet Tubman as far

513
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: as in the abolitionist camp where she was in the

514
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: freed slaves camp, she was hands on and did it.

515
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: Did you hear the box car guy who who packed

516
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: himself up in a box and had himself ship to Philadelphia? No,

517
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: did it work? Yeah? Awesome. He had like some biscuits

518
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: and a little bit of water and some air holes

519
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: and his I think his nickname is box Car. I

520
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: can't remember his full name. But they, you know, opened

521
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: up the crate in Philadelphia and he climbed out and

522
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: they were like, congratulations, your holy can't so the bravery,

523
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: I mean, not just the slaves themselves, people who helped

524
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: I mean, the bravery of these people at the time

525
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: cannot be understated, agreed, because you were getting tortured and

526
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: killed if you were caught and all for your freedom.

527
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: That's all you were looking for. Pretty heavy stuff. Yes, So, Chuck,

528
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: if they want to learn more about the underground railroad,

529
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,719
Speaker 1: they should type in underground railroad in the search bar,

530
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com rang um, and then of

531
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: course brings up listener email. And you know, I bet

532
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: the ladies from stuff you miss in history class have

533
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: probably done one on this already, and so I would

534
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: seek that out for another angle, because sometimes we double up,

535
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: and it's always good to hear different angles on these things.

536
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: And they're a great joke too, and you can compare

537
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: it word for word eventually by comparing the transcripts on

538
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: the blogs. Right, They're like they were a lot more

539
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: factual than Chuck and Josh. All right, Josh, I'm gonna

540
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: call this critical email from Katie. We don't read a

541
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: lot of criticisms much, but this was very specific, so

542
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: I thought we would. Hi, Chuck and Josh, I'm a

543
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: new listener, but it recently listened to about sixty of

544
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: your shows. I am thirty one years old and work

545
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: as a film cruiser. You guys have really grown on

546
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: me slowly. The concept of the show is the best part.

547
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: I think there are a few things that keeping or

548
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: keeping you guys from really going big and would like

549
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: to share my thoughts. First, I think the podcast are

550
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: a bit slow and have a few too many personal

551
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: jokes every time Chuck has a personal story to go

552
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: along with the topic. This is the least inner, painting

553
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: and interesting. Your personal relationships to the topic are mundane. Sorry,

554
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: this should be cut. The banter is good. You are

555
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: clearly smart and witty, and that is enough to keep

556
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: the listener engaged. Josh, your intros are so boring. Why

557
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: not mix it up and or cut the small talk?

558
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: I fast forward past it every time. And I think

559
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: your listener mail is the worst part of the podcast.

560
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: I think you lose at least half, if not more,

561
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: of your listeners at this part. Save that stuff for

562
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: the blog. The podcasts themselves need to be solid and tight.

563
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: The production value fails in comparison to This American Life

564
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: or Planet Money. For these reasons, I would highly suggest

565
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: getting a new producer taking pot SATs at Jerry. That's

566
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: just so wrong. You need a makeover big time. You

567
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: need new music in your intros and throughout the show,

568
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: perhaps sound effects and more out of studio commentary. Some

569
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: of my favorite podcast our Saunas, Hangovers, Cremation, Sharpless, Reincarnation, Mummies,

570
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: and Altitude basically go be Radio Lab. I listened to

571
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: your Guatemala pieces while I was traveling Guatemala last week.

572
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: Pretty cool in hopes of supplementing my education about the

573
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: country while traveling there. But you failed miserably. Actually, she

574
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: says it failed miserable. I get the point though. Uh.

575
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: They were my least favorite podcast you guys have done,

576
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: and I think you genuinely wasted your listeners time with

577
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: your personal, pointless stories about your free vacation. I was

578
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: shocked to learn how small your perspective of the world is,

579
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: considering how often you both write and research about the world.

580
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: Your impressions of Guatemala sounded like you've never left the South. Uh.

581
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: They were naive and not worthy of two hours of

582
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: my time. On the other hand, it was fantastic to

583
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: listen how volcanoes work while climbing volcanoes in Antigua. This

584
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: is what you guys are best at. And you need

585
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: to stick to this, but it needs to be better. Seriously,

586
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: you have mastered the podcast medium, but there is so

587
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: much potential yet to be tapped. And she says taped,

588
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: but I guess she needs tapped. I hope you guys

589
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: continue to make great podcast and that you really up

590
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: the production value. Thank you, Katie M. P s. I

591
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: happen to own a house in Turkey and have spent

592
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: much time in Turkish baths. You define them incorrectly in

593
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: your song and podcast. Who is that? Katie? Katie M.

594
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: Thank you Katie for the tips. We appreciate the insight

595
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: and thanks for listening. We don't know why, but thank

596
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: you for listening. All right, Well we've mastered the medium, okay,

597
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: except for like the fifty points. Well, if you have

598
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: in any pointers for us or tips, we want to

599
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: hear them. We're always open to that kind of thing,

600
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: So shoot us an email at Stuff Podcast at how

601
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Be sure to check out our

602
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 1: new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff

603
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: Work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing

604
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: possibilities of tomorrow, brought to you by the Reinvented two

605
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: thousand twelve camera. It's ready. Are you