1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. The other day, I was talking to a 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: friend of mine who said he had just seen some 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: videos about a lesbian couple, one of whom was Jewish 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: and was a resistance fighter during World War Two, And 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: I immediately said, was it frieda Belle? And Fonto It 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: was not, But that conversation made me want to rerun 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: our episode on her because she was awesome. I concur 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: and this episode originally came out on November twenty fifth, 9 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Enjoy Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and Welcome to the podcast. 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Frye and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. So regular 12 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: listeners to the podcast might recall a while back when 13 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: we talked in one of our listener mail segments about 14 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: a fantastic gift that we got, which was a set 15 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: of the Chutzpau comic books that were produced by the 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: Holocaust Center of Pittsburgh. Well, that listener segment led to 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: us talking with the Holocaust Center about their upcoming volume 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: of the comic, which focuses on women upstanders, real life 19 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: superheroes who stood up against wrong, and we decided to 20 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: do an episode on one of the women featured in 21 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: that comic, and we're also going to have interviews with 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: some of the team behind the Chutzpau comic on an 23 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: upcoming episode. But today we are covering Frida Belinfante, a 24 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: woman who is inspiring both as a musician and as 25 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: a member of the Dutch Resistance who risked her life 26 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: again and again during World War Two in defiance of 27 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: the German occupation of the Netherlands. She was born on 28 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: May tenth, nineteen oh four, in Amsterdam, the third daughter 29 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: in her family. Her older sisters were Dorothea who went 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: by Dolly, and Renee. The fourth Belinfanta child was a 31 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: boy named Robert Paul. Frida would later say that her 32 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,279 Speaker 1: mother had wanted a boy when she was born and quote, 33 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: I have a lot of qualities that could have been 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: a boy, but I was a girl. Frida learned around 35 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: age ten that she had another brother as well. This 36 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: was a child of her father's that he had before 37 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: marrying their mother, and this half brother was named Hugo. Yeah, 38 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: Hugo was not a constant part of their lives, but 39 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: kind of came in and out as their their half brother, 40 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: and she knew him for the rest of his life. 41 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: Freda's family is very large. Her father, Aaron Bellnfanta, had 42 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: nine siblings and her mother, Georgine Antoinette Hess had either 43 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: eight or nine siblings. Freda could not recall for sure 44 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: in the interview she gave where she relaid that although 45 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,119 Speaker 1: the two sides of the family didn't really have much 46 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: in common and so they weren't particularly close like, they 47 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: didn't all gather together. Though her father had initially been 48 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: on track for a career in medicine, he decided at 49 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: twenty one that music was actually his life's path, and 50 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: by the time Frida was born, her father headed an 51 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: Amsterdam music school and was a very prominent pianist. According 52 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: to her account, her parents didn't raise their children in 53 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: any particularly religious manner, although her father was Jewish. When 54 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: she asked her father about religion, he told her that 55 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: she should read up on all kinds of religions and 56 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: see if there was something that appealed to her and 57 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: that she could believe in. And from an early age, 58 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: all of the Bell and Fonta children played music. Aaron 59 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: decided that Frieda should play the cello, and Frida's sister 60 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: Renee once noted in an interview that this was kind 61 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: of a strange choice to give Frida a cello, because 62 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: Frida's hands were fairly small and she had to wrestle 63 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: with that instrument. But Dolly played violin already and Renee 64 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: played the pianos, their father wanted Frida to play a 65 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: different instrument. In nineteen fifteen, when Frida was eleven, her 66 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: sister Dolly died of peritonidis, and Dolly was just fourteen 67 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: at that time. Naturally, as their parents mourned, this put 68 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: a lot of strain on the family, and they really 69 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: didn't speak about their loss very much. Within a year, though, 70 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: Frida's parents divorced, although the two of them had a 71 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: cordial relationship from this point. As a teenager, Frida, according 72 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: to her sister Renee, grew up very fast. Renee also 73 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: noted that her sister was very popular and that both 74 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: boys and girls were crazy about her. Frida was her 75 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: father's favorite child, but when her naughty behavior put her 76 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: in peril of being kicked out of public school, he 77 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: gave her a stern talking to because he could not 78 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: afford a private school as a music teacher, so if 79 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: she got kicked out there were no other options for 80 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: her education. In nineteen twenty three, Frida's father, Aaron, died 81 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: of colon cancer. He had been sick for several years 82 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: and at first he had let his abdominal pain go untreated. 83 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 1: After an emergency surgery in nineteen twenty, he recovered for 84 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: a time, and during that brief reprieve, he insisted that 85 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: he and Frida give a concert together. That was actually 86 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: her first concert. Yeah, she did not feel ready for it, 87 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: but he kind of pressed the issue and they went 88 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: ahead with it. Frida studied cello, not that much with 89 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: her father, but with a number of other teachers, and 90 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: it was through one of them in nineteen twenty that 91 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: she met a woman named Aureete Bosman's. Frida had been 92 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: at the teacher's house when she met Arie, who was 93 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: romantically involved with the teacher. That teacher was the first 94 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: cellist of the Holland Orchestra, and when Henriette and the 95 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: man had a falling out because he had been cheating 96 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: on her and she feared at the time that she 97 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: was pregnant, Frida was then left alone with Arite and 98 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: told the obviously upset woman that she could tell her everything. 99 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: Frieda and Henriette were soon romantically involved, and they lived 100 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: together for seven years. Henriette was already a well known composer. 101 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: She was in her twenties when the two women met, 102 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: so she was older than the sixteen year old Bill 103 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: and Fonta was. Their relationship wasn't exclusive, though Henriette had 104 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: relationships with men, which Frida said she wasn't jealous of, 105 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: and then Frida later said that their relationship wasn't particularly sexual. 106 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: It seemed to be really founded more than anything else, 107 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: on a very deep emotional bond and on Frida's fulfillment 108 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: in the role of caretaker to the composer. She later 109 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: said of Henriette quote, I loved her for a long time, 110 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: many many years. She was a person who took more 111 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: than she gave, which was fine with me because I 112 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: had an abundance of devotion to give. Henrietta Bozman's second 113 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: Concerto was dedicated to Frida as Aaron Bellnfonta's illness had progressed, 114 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: he had become unable to work, so Frida started working 115 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: in those years between nineteen twenty and nineteen twenty three 116 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: professionally as a cellist with the Holland Orchestra, and she 117 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: and Bozmuns had a wide range of friends who were 118 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: also musicians, and it was through this circle that Freeda 119 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: met a floutist named Johann Feldkamff, who also went by Joe. 120 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: Feldkamff was quite taken with Frida and with her musicianship. 121 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: Initially their story sounds kind of sweet. Frida had always 122 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: been the type to look out for other people, but 123 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: Joe wanted her to have the same benefit in her career. 124 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: But then his affection for her really became obsessive. He 125 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: wanted to get married, and she explained that wasn't really 126 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: for her, and then at one point he brought a 127 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: revolver into the room with him and put up on 128 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: the mantle. Frida asked him, what are you trying to do, 129 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: and he said, quote, I don't want to live without you. 130 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: Her response to him at this point was I'm not 131 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: the marrying type. I don't think that I can love 132 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: a man that way. But he responded, I want to 133 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: be where you are, and so she agreed to the marriage, 134 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: feeling like there was really no other choice in the matter. 135 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: She later told an interviewer, like what was I supposed 136 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: to do when faced with the possibility that this man 137 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: would kill himself or I could marry him, I wasn't 138 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: going to be responsible for that. She's a horrible position 139 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: to put someone in. Surprisingly, in many ways, they initially 140 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: actually appeared to be a fairly happy couple together. They 141 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: were kind of like these two chic musicians, and they 142 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: were both very popular, and Frieda legitimately did like Joe 143 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: as a person, and she enjoyed his company. But she 144 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: also noticed that almost as soon as they got married, 145 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: Joe Joi de vivre seemed to vanish. He had been 146 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: very fun and kind of boisterous and a little bit 147 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: of a trickster, and that all went away, and he 148 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: only grew more withdrawn as time went on. They had 149 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: been married in nineteen thirty one, and they divorced five 150 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: years later in nineteen thirty six, and in the meantime, 151 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: Frida and Henriette had also grown apart. Yeah and Frida 152 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: had married Joe. Henriette was still very much in their lives, 153 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: but she and Frida started drifting apart. Freda speculated that 154 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: Henriette just wasn't able to manage the idea of not 155 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: having Freda entirely to herself, even though the rules were 156 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: different for Henrietta's own additional romances. Frida took a job 157 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: teaching high school music. She had actually not been the 158 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: school's first choice. A friend of hers had been who 159 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: was a man. But after working in the position for 160 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: a brief time, that first choice candidate found that he 161 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: could not handle the kids and he quit, and Frida 162 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: was called and asked if she still wanted the job, 163 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: and she took it. Conducting a high school orchestra actually 164 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: changed everything. She had found her passion in conducting, and 165 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: she also reported that she had no problem handling the kids. 166 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: After the school kids put on a performance that Freda conducted, 167 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: the Amsterdam University quiet asked her to conduct them, and 168 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: she did that. Also. As she kept working with kids, 169 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: they also felt like they wanted to work with her 170 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: even more, and so soon she assembled this amateur orchestra, 171 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: not just with the students that she was teaching, but 172 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: also with adults who were trying to pursue music as 173 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: a hobby. This amateur orchestra put on a concert and 174 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: that was attended by a booking agent who arranged larger performances, 175 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: and that agent approached Belenfonta and said, quote, if you 176 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: can do that with an amateur orchestra, can you imagine 177 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: what you can do with professionals? And Freda balked at 178 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: this idea. She didn't think that any professional musician would 179 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: play for her, and also Amsterdam had actually seen two 180 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: other professional orchestra's form and fall apart in a pretty 181 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: short period of time. But after she was promised bookings, 182 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: if she could just get a successful professional concert together, Frida, 183 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: always up for the challenge, did exactly that. She had 184 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: her attractors with this. Even among her close friends, there 185 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: were concerns that she would kill her career as a 186 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: cellist if she tried to become a conductor as a woman. 187 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: Her best friend pointed out that she had never been 188 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: trained as a conductor, and Freeda responded quote, I have 189 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 1: had my eyes and ears open. I think I can 190 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: do it. Freda's Klina Orchestra, her little orchestra, got good reviews, 191 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: and so in nineteen thirty eight she had become a 192 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: professional conductor. And coming up, we're going to talk about 193 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: the next phase of Frida's life, which unfortunately detoured away 194 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: from music by necessity, but first, we're going to pause 195 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: for a word from one of our sponsors. In nineteen 196 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: thirty nine, Frida took a drive to Switzerland, and she 197 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: was going there to take a series of lessons in 198 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: conducting that ended with the twelve yearrolled students in the 199 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: program competing as their final exam, and the winner of 200 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: that competition would get to conduct a professional Swiss orchestra. 201 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: Frida was the top student and she won. She never 202 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: got to claim her prize because World War II put 203 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: an end to her conducting. German troops occupied Holland on 204 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: May tenth. Frida's brother, Robert, who was a doctor, went 205 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: silent after this invasion, and with no communication from him, 206 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: the family understandably became very concerned. It turned out that 207 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: Robert and his wife had died by suicide. The family 208 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: found out when a stranger told them Robert had left 209 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: his mother a note explaining that they had made the 210 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: choice to die rather than to live in the world 211 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: as it was. Frida said in an interview late in 212 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: her life that if she had been there, she would 213 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: have told her brother that the world hadn't changed quote. 214 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: The bad part just came too close, and while the 215 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: family reeled understandably, Frida was pretty quick to tell them 216 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: that she was not ever going to handle things the 217 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: way that her brother had, but that she was going 218 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: to resist. She told her sister Renee quote, if the 219 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: Germans catch me, they can chop me into little pieces 220 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: if they want, but I'm fighting. As part of the occupation, 221 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: all artists required to join the National Socialist Culture Chamber, 222 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: but Jews were forbidden to join. The orchestra that Frieda 223 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: was conducting had a lot of Jewish musicians in it, 224 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: so she gathered them together and said, boys, there's no orchestra. 225 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: We have never existed. She preferred to give up her 226 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: dream job as a conductor than to risk the safety 227 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: of her musicians. They weren't working artists in an orchestra, 228 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: they weren't artists by professions, so she could hopefully avoid 229 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: registration in the Culture Chamber that would have had to 230 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: identify which of the members were Jewish. Playing music written 231 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: by Jewish composers was also forbidden, and then Jewish musicians 232 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: were forced out of music schools and conservatories and orchestras, 233 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: which was what Frieda had foreseen. Yeah, she was very 234 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: quick to see the path that lay ahead of them. 235 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: Faster than a lot of other people because there were 236 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: other people in the music scene. They were like, no, 237 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: we can all just register. It'll be fine. We just 238 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: had to register, and she's like, nope, this is how 239 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: it starts, and that culture chamber had existed before the 240 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: occupation but became a mandatory thing. She later spoke about 241 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: her shift in focus during this time by saying, quote, 242 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: I completely disappeared from the musical life and immediately started 243 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: to prepare myself to do other things that needed doing. 244 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: In October nineteen forty a law requiring identification to be 245 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: carried at all times was enacted. Jews had a jay 246 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: stamped on their papers, and this is when Frida started 247 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: forging papers. This was actually not her first time forging documents. 248 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: When she was much younger, she had forged papers for 249 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: a close friend who was Russian to get back into 250 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union to meet up with her betrothed. Freda 251 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: learned to carefully switch out parts of the documents to 252 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: create new ones. By May of nineteen forty one, there 253 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: were no Jews left in the Amsterdam music community. Freda 254 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: had started distributing forged passports from her home and she 255 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: helped a lot of people flee and then as time 256 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: went on, her methods became more and more refined, and 257 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: she was able to print entire fake identification. Yeah, prior 258 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: to that, they had kind of been cutting and pasting, 259 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 1: you know, cutting apart some identification and making new ones, 260 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: but they basically had a whole system going on by 261 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: nineteen forty one. But all of this defiance and all 262 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: of her work in the resistance eventually caught up with Frieda. 263 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: After a passport pick up appointment was missed by a 264 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: couple that she had agreed to give forged documents, she 265 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: wanted to check on them. They lived in her neighborhood 266 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: and she knew who they were, and when she went 267 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: to their home, the Gestapo was waiting and Frida was arrested. 268 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: She purposely talked to this officer who had taken her 269 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: into custody, like she didn't know what he was talking about. 270 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: She asked him to explain the laws around who was 271 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: and wasn't considered Jewish. For example, Frida's father, as we 272 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: explained earlier, was Jewish, but her mother wasn't. So Frieda 273 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: wasn't considered Jewish, but her brother, who had married a 274 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: Jewish woman was considered Jewish. She peppered the officer with 275 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: all these questions, asking him to explain all the rules 276 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: about who could and couldn't interact with each other. She 277 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: claimed to just not understand any of them. She acted 278 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: very innocent and confused by the whole situation until he 279 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: got so tired of trying to answer her questions that 280 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: he pulled the car over and told her to get 281 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: out and go home. In nineteen forty two, Frida performed 282 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: her last concert as a conductor in Amsterdam. This was 283 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: held in a Jewish community center and it was performed 284 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: by a mix of Jewish and non Jewish students, and 285 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: this was really a huge act of defiance on Frida's part, 286 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: as she was not legally allowed to conduct Jewish musicians. 287 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: During all of this, one of Frida's best friends, Ellen Schwartz, 288 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: trusted the wrong people who had promised to get Ellen 289 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: and her Jewish husband out of Amsterdam for a price, 290 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: but it turned out this whole thing was a scam. 291 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: The couple was taken instead to a concentration camp. Knowing 292 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: that her friends had been betrayed in this way and 293 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: sent to be murdered. Infuriated, Freda for the rest of 294 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: her life. She would later say quote that is so low, 295 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: so far down in the depths of evil, that I 296 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: hate to talk talk about it. I hate to think 297 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: about it myself. Frieda realized that she and some of 298 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: her colleagues in the resistance could keep forging documents, but 299 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: the problem was that there couldn't be duplicate documents in 300 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: City Hall. The IDs were all enumerated, and that number 301 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: series made it easier to check for fake ID So 302 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: she decided that the solution was to destroy the files 303 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: in City Hall. And the logic was that if one 304 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: duplicate was discovered and identified as fake, it would make 305 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: clear to German authorities that there were a lot of 306 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: fakes probably in circulation, and it would up the chances 307 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: of people getting caught and of course all of the 308 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: horrible ramifications of that. So in March of nineteen forty three, 309 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: the Dutch Resistance made their move to resolve this. They 310 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: attacked City Hall and destroyed the ID records. This was 311 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: really no small feat. The building was guarded. Freda's team 312 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: did all kinds of research to find out how the 313 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: whole operation worked, including the names of all the guards 314 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: and the shifts schedules. They also had a tailor make 315 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: two replica police uniforms to pull off the mission. They 316 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: found a leak on the police force who could give 317 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: them details, and then Frieda watched the whole thing from 318 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: a nearby roof. But even though they were able to 319 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: set fire at City Hall and that plan ultimately was 320 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: a success in destroying records, there was fallout because someone 321 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: betrayed the group. Because of all of the preparation and 322 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: information gathering that had been involved, there were just too 323 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: many people who had been talked to, and thus too 324 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: many people who knew about it, So everyone had to 325 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: go into hiding, and Freda learned of her co conspirators 326 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: being arrested one by one and sentenced to death for 327 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: their part in the attack. One man, in particular, Rudolph 328 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: Rudy Bloomgarten, had been Frida's right hand man in planning 329 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: the sabotage, and his death in particular was an especially 330 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: hard blow. After the destruction of the population register at 331 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: City Hall, the Germans were really intent on capturing all 332 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: of the conspirators, but Frieda was always determined to keep going. 333 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: She stayed on the move. She never stayed in one 334 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: place for too long. She also disguised herself as a man, 335 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: pitching her voice lower to complete this illusion whenever she 336 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: tried to move around in the open. Frida had some 337 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: wealthy contexts, partly through her career in the arts and 338 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: partly through family connections, and so that offered her an 339 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: avenue to secure additional funding for the Resistance as things 340 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: got more and more difficult and times got leaner. One 341 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: of the things that she talked about later in her 342 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: life was that she went to the head of the 343 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: Heineken family, who was running their successful beer business, to 344 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: ask for help, and this was a huge risk. She 345 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: didn't know for certain if he was sympathetic to the Resistance. 346 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: She talked a lot over the years about how she 347 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: felt like she got really really good at being able 348 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: to read a person just by looking in their eyes, 349 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: and in this case her instinct had been correct. He 350 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: was sympathetic. But still there were obstacles. So the Germans 351 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: were tracking the company's finances, checking to see where all 352 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: the money came from into the business and how that 353 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: money was being spent. So finally he asked Freda, do 354 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: you have an idea? And she actually did. She said, 355 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: by my cello, they're pretty costly, you know. So they 356 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: were able to have this completely above board transaction where 357 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: she gave him her cello in exchange for the money 358 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: that the resistance needed. She also got that cello back 359 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: when the war ended with no problems whatsoever. Even as 360 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: her efforts were leading to really meaningful actions and successes 361 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: for the Dutch Resistance, Freda also recognized that she was 362 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: soon going to run out of luck. She also knew 363 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: that anyone that was even suspected of an association with 364 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: her would be in danger. To further complicate matters, while 365 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: lifting a heavy iron bed that concealed a trapdoor in 366 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: one of the houses that she sheltered in, Freda got 367 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: a hernia and needed to have it operated on, which 368 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: just made all of this very delicate time of being 369 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 1: nearly discovered all the time even more complicated. She used 370 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: a false name, and she went to a doctor that 371 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: had been recommended that she later described as being quote 372 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: on the right side. But fewer than ten days after 373 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: the surgery, the plan for her to flee had to 374 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: be put into motion. It was time for her to move, 375 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: and she did. She was supposed to go from Brussels 376 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: to Paris to Switzerland and her escape. And this was 377 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: not an easy trip. This was in winter, a lot 378 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: was on foot. She had to follow contacts at various 379 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 1: points who couldn't actually acknowledge her. So there was this 380 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: just a lot of guesswork and risk in the whole plan. Yeah, 381 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: there was one section where she's describing this plan where 382 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: she said she had to go to a train station 383 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: wait for two men to get off the train. They 384 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 1: wouldn't look at her, but they would go off in 385 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: a direction and she would have to follow them. But 386 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: I was just singing, this could be any two dudes 387 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: that get off a train. She doesn't know necessarily that 388 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: she's following the right men. Like, every single step of 389 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: this had huge question marks around it. And by the 390 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: time Frida reached Brussels, the planned Brussels Paris Switzerland path 391 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: of moving refugees out of the Netherlands had been discovered 392 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: by the Nazis and it was no longer useful, so 393 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: Freda traveled instead to Lele, France, where she had the 394 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: contact information for another safe house. When she got there, though, 395 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: there was a huge and terrifying coincidence that same Gestapo 396 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: officer that she had duped in Amsterdam by pretending she 397 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: didn't know all the laws. That was the very same 398 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: person who opened the door of this safe house and 399 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: told her to enter. She put it very plainly when 400 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: she was telling this story later, quote, I ran for 401 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: my life. She ran into a nearby store and hid there. 402 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: Once she was convinced that the coast was clear, she 403 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: left and she made her way to Paris. After several 404 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: weeks in Paris, she traveled with a contact in the 405 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: resistance she had made there named Tony, to the Swiss border, 406 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: and this was in February of nineteen forty four. Tony 407 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: was pretty open with her that he was fearful because 408 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: he looked obviously Jewish and he thought he might put 409 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: her in jeopardy as a consequence, But she responded to 410 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: his concern with quote Tony, by the time they see us, 411 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter whether you look Jewish or not. And 412 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: when they reached the Swiss border, despite being unable to swim, 413 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: she and Tony had to cross a river carrying their 414 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: clothes over their heads. And then when they got to 415 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: the Swiss side of the river and regrouped, they realized 416 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: that they were at the base of a steep mountain 417 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: that there was no way they were going to be 418 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: able to climb, and so they didn't have anywhere to hide. 419 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: They had to walk along the river with no cover. 420 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: Their long walk through the snow was though, in Frida's 421 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: own words, gorgeous, and it was something she never forgot. 422 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 1: But they were discovered when they stopped at an end 423 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: to try to call the Dutch consulate. They were arrested 424 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: by Swiss border police and taken once again on foot 425 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: to chow Defont to be imprisoned. Frieda gave a Swiss 426 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: reference to prove that she was Dutch and that checked out, 427 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: but Tony, on the other hand, was sent back into 428 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: the cold on the French side of the border. When 429 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: she was asked if she and Tony were a couple, 430 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: Frida answered truthfully that they were just friends, and she 431 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: realized only later that if she had just lied and 432 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: said that they were together, that she might have saved him. 433 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: Frida was moved to a Dutch refugee hotel camp, and 434 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: this was actually a very diffulticult time for her. She 435 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: didn't really have any sense of connection or camaraderie with 436 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: her fellow refugees. Some of them gossiped about her, largely 437 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: around speculation about whether she was a lesbian, and she 438 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: felt like a complete outsider. She later said that she 439 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: felt dead inside when she was there with the other 440 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: refugees at Montreux, and thought that she would never be 441 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: able to make music again. When the war ended, Freda 442 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: returned to Amsterdam. She went by convoy in a journey 443 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: that she described as misery. When she got there, she 444 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: found that her apartment had been sealed up by the Gestapo, 445 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 1: but everything inside it was as she had left it. 446 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: As the city of Amsterdam tried to resume a life 447 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: that was something like normal, there was really a lot 448 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: of difficulty and strife. Because there were a lot of 449 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: people who had worked with the Germans and were still 450 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: part of the city, they seemed to face no repercussions. 451 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: The conductor Edward von Binen was one such person, and 452 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: he went right back to work free. To describe seeing 453 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: the people who had collaborated with the Germans in such 454 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: good standing in the city as quote a very cold shower. 455 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: Frida Belinfanta made a significant change in her life after 456 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 1: the war, and we're going to talk about that. Right 457 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: after we take a quick sponsor break. Frida understandably did 458 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: not really feel like herself after the war ended and 459 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: she returned to her home. She described this period as 460 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: a time when she felt no joy and she didn't 461 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: want to build anything, and for a woman who had 462 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: been so driven all of her life, this was a 463 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: very sharp contrast, and as time went on, she knew 464 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: that she just she needed a change. So in nineteen 465 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: forty seven, she decided to make her way to New York, 466 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: which she did with the help of a sponsor, but 467 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: when she got there, she found she didn't really like 468 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: New York all that much. She had tried to make 469 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: connections to get a job as a cellist, but after 470 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: an agent told her that the cellis she already represented 471 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: couldn't get enough work, that woman then asked Frida what 472 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: else she could do, and Belinfante offered up a headshot 473 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: that listed her as a conductor, and the agent said, 474 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: that's worse, and so Freda said goodbye and she left 475 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: the office. After that, she decided to travel the United 476 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: States and to see where felt like the right place 477 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: to make a new home. She was staying with the 478 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: sister of one of her friends from school. This was 479 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: a woman named Minnie. Minnie bought a little car and 480 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: took some vacation time, and the two of them set 481 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: out to see the United States together. Frida found these 482 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: travels incredibly refreshing and restorative. As they traveled, no one 483 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: knew who she was or what she had been through, 484 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: so she didn't feel the oppressive shadow of the war 485 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,719 Speaker 1: in the same way that she had back in Europe. 486 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: When Freda and Minnie got to California, Minnie sold freed 487 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: to the car. This was a crossley that Freda described 488 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: as being like a sewing machine. Many went back to 489 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: New York, and Freda stayed with a friend that she 490 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: had made when she was crossing over from Europe. This 491 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: was a woman named Ivy Fraser. Freda and Ivy bought 492 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: a house together, and, similarly to her relationship with Henriette Beauseman, 493 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: she said that her relationship with Ivy was quote low 494 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: gear sexually, but the two of them were very close. 495 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: Frida worked for a while at a university as an 496 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: assistant conductor and a music teacher, but soon she realized 497 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: she could make better money playing for movie studio orchestras, 498 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 1: and during this time, while she was taking a lot 499 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: of freelance work. Someone recognized her name and asked if 500 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: she was related to the famous woman conductor from Amsterdam. 501 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 1: When she told him no, she was not a relative. 502 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: She was that woman conductor. He was at first incredulous 503 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: because she was taking these little, piecemeal, cheap jobs in 504 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: Hollywood and it just didn't match up in his head. 505 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: Then he offered Freda the chance to conduct again, although 506 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: he was clear that it would not be for pay. 507 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: She didn't entirely believe him. But then he told her 508 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: that there were a lot of musicians in Hollywood who 509 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: were making a living playing fully and doing accent sound 510 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: for film, but they never got to play in concert. 511 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: And he said that he could pull an orchestra together 512 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: from these folks, and he was true to his word. 513 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: He put together an orchestra and they all met for 514 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: the first time in the Highland Avenue High School auditorium. 515 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: And just as Frida had found her passion for conducting 516 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: in a high school initially, that spark was reignited in 517 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: another high school, this time in Los Angeles. And when 518 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: the first session ended with these new musicians, Freda asked 519 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: all of them if they would like to come back 520 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: the next week, and they all said yes. Soon their 521 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: little orchestra was booked at the Redlands ball in Redlands, California. 522 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: Freda called it quote the most poetical concert that I remember. 523 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: She gave twelve curtain calls. After this triumph, people in 524 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: Orange County started asking why they didn't have events like 525 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: this one that had hosted Frida and her orchestra, and 526 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: that was the catalyst for the formation of the Orange 527 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: County Philharmonic, which named Frida Belinfante, who was fifty at 528 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: the time, as conductor. She was the first woman principal 529 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: conductor of a professional symphony orchestra, and by her account, 530 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: she initiated every program that they ever had. She also 531 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: had to educate the community about music, and one year 532 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: she gave seventy five speeches trying to do so to 533 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: drum up support for the orchestra. They had really rave 534 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 1: reviews and well attended shows, but when Frida's first five 535 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: year contract was up, she was told it was not 536 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: going to be renewed and that the symphony was being disbanded. 537 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: There are different versions of exactly how things played out. 538 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: Freda believe that gossip about her lesbianism was part of it. 539 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: She said of this time, quote, I've always been approached 540 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: by the women. I never had to go after anyone 541 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: because they were always after me. I was plagued by 542 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: it in Orange County. These people I didn't ask for. 543 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: I wasn't after people. They were after me all the time. 544 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,959 Speaker 1: But then, of course when I didn't follow through, they 545 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: became nasty. Arts advocate and Orange County Philharmonic founder Elaine 546 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: Redfield told a different version of the story, one that 547 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: had more to do with community politics in the arts 548 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: in the Los Angeles area. She said in a documentary 549 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: interview years later that the director of the La Philharmonic 550 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: had been threatened by the Orange County Philharmonic and that 551 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: he had simply used his influence to push the OCP 552 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: out of existence. This was the time with a lot 553 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: of changes for Freda. In addition to her job in 554 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: Orange County ending, she also split up with Ivy Fraser 555 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: and the house that they bought together was sold. Frida 556 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: moved into her own place in Laguna Beach. Freda gave 557 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: her last concert as a conductor in the late eighties 558 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: in Laguna Beach, and soon after that it became apparent 559 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: that her hearing was failing. She started to think that 560 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: the musicians were playing out of tune, specifically the strings, 561 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: but it was actually her hearing that had changed, and 562 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: that was a painful realization for someone who so deeply 563 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: loved music. Frida and her partner at the time, Bobby Chambers, 564 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: moved to Santa Fe when Frida retired from conducting, but 565 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: then she was diagnosed with cancer not long after that, 566 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: and that coshed Frida's plan for a languid and quiet retirement. 567 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: On May thirty first, nineteen ninety four, at the age 568 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: of ninety, Freda gave a long form interview to Klaus 569 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: Mueller for the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, and in 570 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: that interview she told her entire life story. That interview 571 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: was a significant part of the research for this episode, 572 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: and you can see videos of it online as well 573 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: as read a full transcript, and we're going to link 574 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: to that in the show notes. A few days before 575 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: her death, Freda told Bobby that she had a beautiful 576 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: dream that she was in a pool and that people 577 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: from all the various times of her life got into 578 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: the pool and came to her and told her good job. 579 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: Frida Belanfanta died nine months after her interview for the 580 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: Holocaust Museum, and after her death, Elaine Redfield said of 581 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: her quote, she was an excellent conductor by any standard, 582 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: but the world wasn't ready at that point in time 583 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: for a lady conductor. It was a shame. She was 584 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: enormously able. Eric Volmer, former Orange County Philharmonic Society executive director, 585 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: said of Freda quote, she was really a trailblazer in 586 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: the arts for Orange County. She was feisty, indefatigable, single minded, 587 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: but more than anything, she really cared about music and 588 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: she wanted to share the art with a broad based community. 589 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: Freda was a very quotable woman. If you watch those 590 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: videos of her read that transcript, you realize she whipped 591 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: out a lot of zingers. Not only was she a 592 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: resistance fighter and a top notch musician, she also had 593 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: a way of seeing the world with great personal confidence 594 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: and clarity about her position in it. As an illustrative example, 595 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to close out with a quote of hers 596 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: that I absolutely love. She said, quote, if people have 597 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,719 Speaker 1: a conceived idea why they don't want to have anything 598 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: to do with me, I'm not inquiring of trying to 599 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: find out why, because if people don't want to have 600 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: anything to do with me, then it's not my kind 601 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: of people. I love her so much. Yeah, yeah, it's 602 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: pretty great. I found myself just down a rabbit hole 603 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: of like gazing at her and watching her do interviews. 604 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: And there are some great clips in a documentary that 605 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: was made about her in the late nineties where you 606 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: see her teaching music and realize just how she can 607 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: be so straightforward and blunt with people but also very 608 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: warm and encouraging at the same time, and like, it's 609 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: just it's beautiful. Thanks so much for joining us on 610 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: this Saturday. Since this episode is out of the archive, 611 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: if you heard an email address or a Facebook RL 612 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: or something similar over the course of the show, that 613 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: could be obsolete now. Our current email address is History 614 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. You can find us all 615 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: over social media at missed Inhistory, and you can subscribe 616 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: to our show on Apple Podcasts, Google podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, 617 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Stuff you missed 618 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 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