WEBVTT - Tesla Can't Stop Losing 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:06.720 Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.039 More than half the satellites in space are owned and 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:11.960 controlled by one man. 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.840 Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate. He says. 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.439 He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:18.880 be different. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:19.919 He'll vote Republican. 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.640 There is a reason the US government is so reliant 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:23.840 on ed Elon. 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:25.919 Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.200 Anything he does, he's fascinating people. 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:39.600 Welcome to Elon Inc, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.720 It's Tuesday, April sixteenth, twenty twenty four. I'm your host, 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.840 David Papadopolis. Today we have Tesla on our minds first 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.640 and foremost. There's been a flurry of news in the 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.280 wake of the company's dismal first quarter sales, a management shakeup, 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.480 a midnight announcement of layoffs, and yet another plunge in 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.440 the stock. On a happier note, for he's heading off 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.720 to India soon to meet with Prime Minister Narandra Modi. 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.440 It's an important trip for him and for sales of 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:12.800 Tesla's and Starlink satellites, and a controversial one for X Plus, 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.560 now this is important. We have an update on Elon's 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.520 feud with Coachella. Honestly, I have no idea what the 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:27.479 hell happened here, but apparently it sounded something like this, 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:45.560 for the love of God, but Max Chafkin. Max will 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.440 explain to us later what that's all about. But we're 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:53.480 gonna talk Tesla first, and so Max our Bloomberg Business 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:55.000 Week Reporter extraordinaries here. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.600 With us a lot resisting the urge too yet. 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:02.240 Yet but wait, and we also have Dana Hall, Elon 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:08.440 Reporter extraordinaire and by the way, a scoop machine. Hello Dana, Hello, Hello. Okay, 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:15.800 so Dana, starting with Tesla. The news came out late 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:20.040 Sunday night. They're laying off a large number of workers. 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:21.720 What exactly is going on? 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:24.800 Yeah, so just to step back for a minute, Tesla 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:29.520 has over one hundred and forty thousand employees globally. Periodically, 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.120 Elon musk freaks out about the economy, about sales, about 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.440 their growth, about capex, about their need to cut costs, 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:40.919 and wax wax a large percentage over the weekend. All 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.800 these employees were like bracing for layoffs. There was all 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.160 these text messages my phone was blowing up. We hear 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.120 they're coming, We hear they're coming. And then like after 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.679 and then on Sunday evening, at eight forty five pm Pacific, 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.320 people started getting emails that they were being let go. 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.480 And then Musk sent out an email to the company. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.640 I think it was after midnight. I was asleep. I 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.040 woke up and it was already out, basically saying that 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:08.000 they were restructuring the company and they were laying off 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.239 more than ten percent of their workforce. And just put 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:15.200 this in perspective, this is the largest reduction in force 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.600 in Tesla's history. They've never done ten percent before. And 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:20.960 the chatter within the company is that it's more than 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.400 ten percent. It's actually we've heard that it's more like 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.359 twenty percent. And people are still waiting for other shoes 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.080 to drop. So this is by no means over. And 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.480 I think what's interesting is that Wall Street typically likes 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.960 it when companies do layoffs. It's this sort of awful 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.279 secret that layoffs are good for shareholders. 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:39.160 Wall Street likes Blood Landing. 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.280 Yeah, yeah, this had the opposite effect, Like the stock 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:46.080 was down yesterday. Granted, everyone's also worried about World War three, 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.280 but like, this is not improving the stock at all. 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.680 And the people that were laid off, I have just 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:56.080 had the most harrowing conversations with employees. Some people got 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.320 the email at three thirty in the morning, and the 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:01.520 email else saying that you were laid off went to 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.200 your personal email. So if you like woke up and 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.040 commuted to work and didn't check your personal email, you 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.480 like got to the office and like your badge didn't work, 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:11.840 or like the security ran out and we're like, sorry, 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.840 you can't come into the building. So layoffs are always brutal, 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.560 but there's a lot of pain and angers right now. 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.320 Very haphazardly, it would appear max to that point on 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:25.279 the stock it's a almost forty percent this year. Why 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.800 is the market interpreting it this way? 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:32.400 Well, so two things. One is Wall Street likes layoffs 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.560 because you know, it's perceived as keeping expenses under control, 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.960 friendly to shareholders and so on. Wall Street does not 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.520 like erratic behavior, does not like surprises. And I think 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:47.080 that this is both surprising and a little bit confusing. Right. 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.520 It's like Elon Musk during the last earnings call was 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:54.240 talking all about ramping up production of this new model 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.719 that's going to save Tesla's sort of growth issues. This 0:04:57.800 --> 0:04:59.479 is supposed to be a growth stock, right and of 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.880 course there are ways in which some cost cutting, right 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:04.920 size and whatever you want to whatever euphemism you want 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.760 to use, can be compatible with that. But it just 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.880 feels like there was a sudden shift in strategy that 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:17.040 is not being explained super well. The second thing is context. 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:21.320 Tesla stock is way down because there are more They 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:23.640 are making more cars than they can sell, and that 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.400 is a big problem. That be a problem for any company, 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:28.640 but it's particularly problem given that Elon Musk has said 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.840 for years and years and years that the big problem 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.320 is they weren't the demand was unlimited. The big problem 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.240 was manufacturing. So basically the markets for many people, I 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.840 think their understanding of this company is sort of broken. 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.000 It's also a really big problem for Tesla because they 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.040 don't have a dealer network. They sell directly to consumers. 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.360 So when they have forty six thousand cars in inventory, 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.880 they are holding that inventory on their books. 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:53.440 That is a drag on. 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.160 Their profit and they report earnings on Tuesday. 0:05:56.160 --> 0:06:00.200 Explain that a little more. Dana. So typically an enormal 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.039 model with Ford and GM and others. This isn't a 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.160 Ford and GM problem. This is a problem that the dealer. 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.159 The dealers are choking on that. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.200 Supply, right, So, like typically dealers have the inventory and 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.000 they do all the tricks in the book to try 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:16.000 to move cars off of their lots. But Tesla doesn't 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.719 have dealers. Tesla sells directly to consumers, so when there's 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.479 excess inventory, it is on the corporate balance sheet, not 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.279 the balance sheet of a dealer. It's like all Tesla. 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.640 So it's just like another drag And it's not a 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:32.480 surprise that like Tesla decided to do this before earning 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.320 the earnings call next week that said, we've been bracing 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.960 for I've been bracing for layoffs for weeks now because 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.360 in February we broke the news that like Tesla managers 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:44.720 were asked this question of like is this employee's role critical? 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.120 And so we sort of knew that something was up, 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.200 it was just a matter of like when and how severe. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.000 But yeah, this is severe, and uh it also just 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.840 is they've hired like crazy in certain departments, Like they're 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:58.880 hiring all these AI and optimists and JOJO people, so 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.200 but now they're cutting like across the board pretty severely. 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:04.920 That's the part that I guess. I wonder if it's 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.280 just to a certain degree reflection of musk speed. You 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.680 ramp up, it's the speed of light, and then when 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:12.680 things go against you, yeah, you just and so maybe 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:14.600 there's an element of that in this case. Here you 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.320 both have factory workers who are losing their jobs and 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.280 white collar workers who are losing their jobs. In the past, 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.640 hasn't attended to mostly just be the white collar folks. 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.000 Oh no, No, when they cut, they cut across the board. 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:30.160 It's everything. It's engineers, it's hr it's recruiting, it's white collar, 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:35.280 it's support, it's policy, it's legal, it's manufacturing. They're cutting 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:36.000 across the board. 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.160 So two other things in terms of just the sort 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.600 of weirdness. One is Elon Musk has been saying for 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.800 a long time that Tesla's FSD, which is like where 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.800 he's supposedly going email full self driving, which has now 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.520 been called full self driving parentheses supervised, as pointed out 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.640 last week, kind of a weird name for a product. 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.720 But in any case, he's been saying, based, yeah, it 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.680 costs twelve thousand dollars one hundred and ninety or one 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.680 hundred ninety nine dollars a month. But it's going to 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.240 get more expensive over time because it's so valuable. If 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.840 you have a robotaxi, then you could send your car 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:12.720 out while you sleep. As we've discussed, David, this is 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.440 your retirement plan. You could pay hard, you might not 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.080 pay for more. You might pay more, right, but no, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.560 but suddenly there was a sudden price cut of full 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.760 self driving, So you suddenly have this weird reset of 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:28.160 a bunch of the basic underpinnings of this company. The 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:29.960 last thing just to build on with Dana is saying 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.600 it's not just that they have a huge and a 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:34.880 huge bunch of cars that are sitting on their books. 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:38.880 They've been cutting prices super super aggressively for a very 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.040 long time, for like a year now. It's like you've 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.079 cut prices like crazy. There's a limit to which they 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:44.920 can discount. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.960 I think at this point, you cut prices super aggressively 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.120 with the idea that was going to help you move 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:54.960 greater quantities of volume, and it's just not happening at all. 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:59.400 I mean, you've cut prices and your volumes are stagnant. Dana, 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.000 part of these layoffs there are two very big names 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:07.320 of people who are leaving. Two top executives tell us 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.520 about them and what we know about their departure from 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:11.000 the company. 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.600 So Tesla only has four named executive officers. One of 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.760 them is Drew Biglino. He's the senior vice president of 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.800 Engineering and the Energy Division. He was basically the de 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.079 facto CTO. He really kind of rose to prominence after J. B. 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.040 Strabo left the company. He stood with Elon at the 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.120 battery day that they did a couple of years ago. 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.320 Like Drew was an engineers went to Stanford like very 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:40.720 well known, like diehard Tesla employee. He resigned on Sunday, 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:42.240 and Tesla. 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:46.360 Even put out he resigned, Dana or he was resigned. 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.720 He resigned. I'm pretty sure never say absolute, but I 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:51.960 am pretty positive that he resigned. In the eight that 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.400 went out today, Tesla said that he resigned. So that's 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:57.960 just like a big loss in terms of institutional knowledge. 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.640 Drew oversee a lot of the battery development for the 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.959 forty six eighty cells that Tesla is trying to make 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:05.720 in house. And then the other key person who resigned, 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.640 which was almost more shocking to me, was Rohan Patel 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.040 who is the vice president of Business Development and Policy, 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.679 basically like the lead DC guy for Elon Musk. Anytime 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.120 Elon Musk goes to Capitol Hill, what if he's like 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.480 meeting with Schumer and talking about AI like Rohan was 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.319 right by his side. Rohan used to work in the 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.680 Obama White House, was like the architect of this whole 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:33.040 India strategy. And you know, Rohan was also the executive 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.040 that would push back against media stories on X and 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.080 was very vocal and had just like a big social 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.240 media presence in terms of trying to set the record 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.480 straight in terms of reporting on the company. So those 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.760 two people leaving, it's a sign to me that this 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.000 is just not like a normal layoff. This is the 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.800 company is shifting strategy. And some executives are at a 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:55.920 point where in their careers where they're like, you know what, 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.160 I'm out, I'm not gonna do this, I am it 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.680 is a good time for me to pass the torch, 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.559 like I'm gonna spend time with my kids, like you 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:04.959 go do your ROBOTAXI thing. 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:09.160 So with rohuntel as Dana points out, former Obama White 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:14.200 House figure also very much a ev sustainability somebody who's 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.640 kind of interest in this. If you look at his background, right, 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.079 he's done a lot of work on climate stuff. Of course, 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.800 big part of Tesla's DC strategy is selling a company, 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.640 has been selling the company as a climate solution. His 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.920 departure on top of this other one. It's like it's 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:33.240 basically two guys who are really bought into EV's maybe 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.079 the probably the two most important people at the company 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.840 besides Elon Musk having to do with EV's, and they're 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:39.400 both out. 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.920 With the collapse in the price yesterday and the collapse 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:43.440 in the price we saw at the opening of the 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.640 session today, this company is now worth less than a 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.480 half a trillion dollars, still an awful lot of money, 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:53.240 But at its peak, Tesla was worth one point three 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.240 trillion dollars. It is now declined in value eight hundred 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.960 billion dollars, which is a lot of money. Dana and Max, 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:01.920 I will hit you guys with an anecdote I heard 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.840 over the weekend from my mother. My mom's a source 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.679 of lots of information in good Tibbets. A neighbor of 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:11.640 hers she noticed the other day suddenly was not driving 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.600 his Tesla, and she said, what happened? To your tesla. 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.600 He said, no, I decided I cannot abide mister Musk. 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.679 I'm getting rid of it. He got rid of it. 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.960 He essentially was too embarrassed to own it, and he 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:30.960 replaced it with an all ev BMW. I'll just say this, 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.760 it's come up in the past, mister Musk, for all 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.480 he's done for this company, for making it that company 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.640 at some point was worth one point three trillion dollars, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.120 and for all the brain power and so on and 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:46.440 so forth, he probably is about the worst brand ambassador 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.120 in the history of the world right now in terms 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.160 of alienating his core customer base. 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.080 Max, I'm hesitant to go that far, just because he 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.960 is a branding genius and this trillion dollar plus valuation, 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.439 which was totally bonkers by any normal you talk to 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:06.079 any autoanalysts, right, it's it's so crazy, it's confusing, right, 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.760 And it's like entirely about Elon Musk's force of personality. 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.600 But are you conflating that is the value of the stock, 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.280 and that is the fanboys who pile into the stock. Yeah, 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.000 that's different, I feel like to a certain degree than 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:21.080 in Connecticut. 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:22.760 Well, I think it's so First of all, I think 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:27.120 it's all connected. I think that the Tesla brand is complicated, 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:31.280 and it incorporates obviously like climate change and like doing something, 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.360 and but also it also incorporates the kind of success 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.800 narrative around Elon Musk. I agree with you, David, that 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:42.240 it's been like an incredibly self destructive period. I've been 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:44.880 thinking a lot about King Lear. I mean, it feels 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:50.439 like Musk is in this kind of weird destructive late stag, 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.000 Like he's just like looking at the world around him 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.040 and looking at all these assets and like one by 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.880 one undermining them in various ways. And you know, this 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.880 pivot to software, which of course makes financial sense, it 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.199 really runs counter to a big part of the Elon 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.520 Musk brand and the Elon Musk mythology. The whole big 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:11.840 thing that people would talk about with Elon Musk, the 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.320 thing that got people so excited about Elon Musk is like, 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.760 this is a guy that builds stuff. Right the rest 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:21.520 of Silicon Valley they're just making apps, and here's Elon Musk, industrialist. 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:22.920 And industrialist of our times. 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.040 I'm going to push back a little bit on this, guys, 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:29.920 because if you read Masterplan Part duh from twenty sixteen. 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.480 Because you chied in me last week, Dan, I read it. 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:33.960 I spent all weekend reading it. 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:37.160 Do you read it like one hundred times? 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:38.080 Sure? 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:42.520 Okay, autonomy has always been part of the plan, and 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.760 so it's not real it's to call it a pivot 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.920 to autonomy. Yes, it seems like it's clearly a pivot 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:54.400 that the robotaxi is taking priority over the twenty five 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:59.640 thousand dollars consumer facing car. But like Elon has been 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.120 upset yes with autonomous cars for like a decade now. 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.480 I mean, he's been promising this forever, and I think 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.000 what has changed just that he's very confident about FSD 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.400 version twelve, so confident that they dropped beta from the name. 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.240 They have all this data, they think it's going to work. 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.600 He's all in, and he's just basically, we've got to 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.360 spend all this money now on compute. We've got to 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.840 really reorient the next phase of the growth is going 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.840 to be the robotaxi. I don't think investors are fully 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.040 buying it. But it's also like the message, the messaging 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.400 has been so murky that it's not a problem as 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:30.920 to why. 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:33.520 So, first of all, my answer to your question is no. 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.040 I read it, and I read it ninety nine, I 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.440 read one hundred times. But that is the issue. If 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:42.360 you are going to save the Earth from climate change 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.640 and we are going to stave off the worst effects 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.960 of climate change, is the cheap Tesla not significantly more 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.560 important than the robotaxis. 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.240 Well, you won't need to sell as many cars to 0:15:55.920 --> 0:16:00.400 consumers if the robotaxi can just operate twenty four seven 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:02.880 and drive you around when you need to get where 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.640 you need to go. And the robotaxi is still going 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:09.480 to be electric. So there's like climate arguments to be 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.760 made about optimizing the vehicles on the road, and like 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:14.800 why do we have so much traffic because people are 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.080 driving so much like we could have. There's like a 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:21.360 lot of arguments around the climate imperatives around a robotaxi. 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.480 But yeah, it still seems like a big shift, like 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.040 the company is at this big inflection point and not 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.080 everyone is on board with it, including some executives. 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.960 Apparently electric cars have downsides, right, and when making a 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.720 car is an expense, you know, is carbon intensive, but 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.320 come on, like one of these things is real. It's 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.920 a car, they work. You can buy them their electric motors, 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.040 and one of them is imaginary. There is no Tesla 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.200 full self driving car. There is no robotaxi. There is 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:54.440 no clear pathway to getting a robotaxi. What we have right. 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.120 Now is there really why is there no clear path? 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:02.200 It's going to require a regulatory overhaul that would be BACTLL, 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.960 a redesign of our infrastructure, it would be it's a 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.560 massive undertaking that has not even begun. And again, as 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.560 I said, like last week, you have companies that are 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.520 much further along on this kind of regulatory thing and 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.680 they are struggling. Cruise GM big company invested a ton 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.520 of money in getting its cars on the road, getting 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.480 its robotaxis on the road, had to pull them off. 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:27.840 And so it's just there is no clear path here. 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.800 So autonomous is not just hard, it's really really hard. 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.840 I get it. Okay, very good. All right, We're gonna 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:37.639 move on to mister Musk's big upcoming trip to India. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.760 So we're now joined by Dan Flatley, a national security 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.679 reporter here at Bloomberg, and Dan, along with Dana and Max, 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.439 is going to tell us all about Elon's big trip 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:56.879 coming up to India. Dan, when does it start and 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.000 what exactly is on mister Musk's agenda here. 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.080 So the visit itself is sort of timed at the 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.000 beginning of elections in India, so the elections will take 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.399 you almost a month to sort of roll through the 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:12.359 whole country. But essentially there's something to be gained by 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:14.800 both parties in this, and that Musk he's trying to 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.760 get beyond the US, beyond China, trying to reach new markets, 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.880 and Mody is sort of trying to promote this pro 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:25.280 business agenda, and so both parties have something to gain 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.280 from this. Of course, Tesla's under a bit of strain 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.560 at the moment because some not great results in terms 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.200 of the valuation and some layoffs and things like that. 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.160 So you know, it comes at kind of an important 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.639 time both politically and for business reasons for both of 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:40.840 these individuals. 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.560 Now Dan, knowing what we know about Elon and knowing 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.120 a bit what we know about mister Mody, are these 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.480 two are simpatico in their views of the world. 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:55.800 Yeah, I mean I think that Musk is sort of 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.359 has kind of cultivated this image not only as a 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.800 thought leader but also somebody who's become more and more 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:07.199 interested in politics. And in that regard, he has cultivated 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:12.760 relationships with folks like Modi, folks like Javier Milay in Argentina, 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:18.320 other sort of free market enthusiasts, let's call them. You 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:22.080 could call them authoritarian. You could say potentially that some 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:26.760 of the leaders in these governments where he's visiting have 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:32.080 authoritarian tendencies or certainly trying to stay in power. So 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.800 this is sort of part and parcel of his idea 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:40.200 of having not just influence over the world of technology. 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.640 And so yes, there's sympatico in that sense, and certainly 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.280 it's a reach beyond sort of the kind of the 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:51.239 normal places where folks like this would go to that 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:52.000 kind of influence. 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:58.000 Now, Max speaking of strong regimes, authoritarian esque regimes, as 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:00.800 he travels to India, what does our sense of how 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.640 this is being received over in China, which is also 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:05.160 a very important market for Misty. 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:09.000 Yeah, so we've seen this with consumer electronics as Apple 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:13.200 has attempted to diversify its supply chain. China has kind 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:17.000 of tended to view India's efforts to encourage, you know, 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.200 people to set up manufacturing operations there as in competition 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.919 with them with China. When China banned the iPhone in 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.240 some government offices last year. It was viewed by some 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.240 as a response to Apple's efforts. And what we saw 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.639 ahead of this visit is the Global Times, which is 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:38.440 essentially a government controlled newspaper running an editorial saying, oh boy, 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.320 you know, Tesla's making a big mistake. This is going 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:42.760 to be a lot harder than Elon Musk thinks, you know, 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.520 essentially at least dumping cold water on this, if not 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:50.520 maybe a subtle warning to Elon Musk over what China 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.080 might see as an effort to diversify to get to 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.879 invest less in China and more in India. So I 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.679 think that is going to be a real challenge for 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.400 Elon Musk. The other thing is like the Indian electric 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:02.680 car market is small. 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:04.760 Yeah, let me ask you that perhaps the eb market 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.679 is smaller in India now, but is there potentially a 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:09.920 gold mine down the road for the company. 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:10.200 Yeah. 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.440 I mean interestingly, this is one of the areas in 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.440 which Elon Musk and the Biden administration are kind of aligned. 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:20.240 The Biden administration, for a lot of different reasons, but 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.959 some national security reasons, has put a lot of focus 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.400 on India as a counter to China. And so there 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:33.640 is potentially some not just business benefits that could come 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:36.600 from this alliance between Elon Musk and the Rendra Modi, 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.639