1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 2: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 2: controlled by one man. 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate. He says. 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 2: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 6 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 2: be different. 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 3: He'll vote Republican. 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 9 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: on ed Elon. 10 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 4: Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 11 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: Anything he does, he's fascinating people. 12 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 2: Welcome to Elon Inc, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 13 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, April sixteenth, twenty twenty four. I'm your host, 14 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 2: David Papadopolis. Today we have Tesla on our minds first 15 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: and foremost. There's been a flurry of news in the 16 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: wake of the company's dismal first quarter sales, a management shakeup, 17 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: a midnight announcement of layoffs, and yet another plunge in 18 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: the stock. On a happier note, for he's heading off 19 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: to India soon to meet with Prime Minister Narandra Modi. 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: It's an important trip for him and for sales of 21 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: Tesla's and Starlink satellites, and a controversial one for X Plus, 22 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: now this is important. We have an update on Elon's 23 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 2: feud with Coachella. Honestly, I have no idea what the 24 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 2: hell happened here, but apparently it sounded something like this, 25 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 2: for the love of God, but Max Chafkin. Max will 26 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: explain to us later what that's all about. But we're 27 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: gonna talk Tesla first, and so Max our Bloomberg Business 28 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: Week Reporter extraordinaries here. 29 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: With us a lot resisting the urge too yet. 30 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: Yet but wait, and we also have Dana Hall, Elon 31 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 2: Reporter extraordinaire and by the way, a scoop machine. Hello Dana, Hello, Hello. Okay, 32 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 2: so Dana, starting with Tesla. The news came out late 33 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: Sunday night. They're laying off a large number of workers. 34 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: What exactly is going on? 35 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, so just to step back for a minute, Tesla 36 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 3: has over one hundred and forty thousand employees globally. Periodically, 37 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 3: Elon musk freaks out about the economy, about sales, about 38 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 3: their growth, about capex, about their need to cut costs, 39 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 3: and wax wax a large percentage over the weekend. All 40 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 3: these employees were like bracing for layoffs. There was all 41 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: these text messages my phone was blowing up. We hear 42 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: they're coming, We hear they're coming. And then like after 43 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 3: and then on Sunday evening, at eight forty five pm Pacific, 44 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 3: people started getting emails that they were being let go. 45 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: And then Musk sent out an email to the company. 46 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 3: I think it was after midnight. I was asleep. I 47 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 3: woke up and it was already out, basically saying that 48 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: they were restructuring the company and they were laying off 49 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 3: more than ten percent of their workforce. And just put 50 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 3: this in perspective, this is the largest reduction in force 51 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: in Tesla's history. They've never done ten percent before. And 52 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 3: the chatter within the company is that it's more than 53 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 3: ten percent. It's actually we've heard that it's more like 54 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 3: twenty percent. And people are still waiting for other shoes 55 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 3: to drop. So this is by no means over. And 56 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 3: I think what's interesting is that Wall Street typically likes 57 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 3: it when companies do layoffs. It's this sort of awful 58 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,279 Speaker 3: secret that layoffs are good for shareholders. 59 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 2: Wall Street likes Blood Landing. 60 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this had the opposite effect, Like the stock 61 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: was down yesterday. Granted, everyone's also worried about World War three, 62 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 3: but like, this is not improving the stock at all. 63 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: And the people that were laid off, I have just 64 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 3: had the most harrowing conversations with employees. Some people got 65 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 3: the email at three thirty in the morning, and the 66 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 3: email else saying that you were laid off went to 67 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 3: your personal email. So if you like woke up and 68 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: commuted to work and didn't check your personal email, you 69 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 3: like got to the office and like your badge didn't work, 70 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 3: or like the security ran out and we're like, sorry, 71 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 3: you can't come into the building. So layoffs are always brutal, 72 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 3: but there's a lot of pain and angers right now. 73 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: Very haphazardly, it would appear max to that point on 74 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 2: the stock it's a almost forty percent this year. Why 75 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 2: is the market interpreting it this way? 76 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: Well, so two things. One is Wall Street likes layoffs 77 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: because you know, it's perceived as keeping expenses under control, 78 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: friendly to shareholders and so on. Wall Street does not 79 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: like erratic behavior, does not like surprises. And I think 80 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: that this is both surprising and a little bit confusing. Right. 81 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: It's like Elon Musk during the last earnings call was 82 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: talking all about ramping up production of this new model 83 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: that's going to save Tesla's sort of growth issues. This 84 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: is supposed to be a growth stock, right and of 85 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: course there are ways in which some cost cutting, right 86 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: size and whatever you want to whatever euphemism you want 87 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: to use, can be compatible with that. But it just 88 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: feels like there was a sudden shift in strategy that 89 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: is not being explained super well. The second thing is context. 90 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: Tesla stock is way down because there are more They 91 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: are making more cars than they can sell, and that 92 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: is a big problem. That be a problem for any company, 93 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: but it's particularly problem given that Elon Musk has said 94 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: for years and years and years that the big problem 95 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: is they weren't the demand was unlimited. The big problem 96 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: was manufacturing. So basically the markets for many people, I 97 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: think their understanding of this company is sort of broken. 98 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 3: It's also a really big problem for Tesla because they 99 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 3: don't have a dealer network. They sell directly to consumers. 100 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 3: So when they have forty six thousand cars in inventory, 101 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: they are holding that inventory on their books. 102 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: That is a drag on. 103 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 3: Their profit and they report earnings on Tuesday. 104 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 2: Explain that a little more. Dana. So typically an enormal 105 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 2: model with Ford and GM and others. This isn't a 106 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 2: Ford and GM problem. This is a problem that the dealer. 107 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 2: The dealers are choking on that. 108 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 3: Supply, right, So, like typically dealers have the inventory and 109 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: they do all the tricks in the book to try 110 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 3: to move cars off of their lots. But Tesla doesn't 111 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 3: have dealers. Tesla sells directly to consumers, so when there's 112 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 3: excess inventory, it is on the corporate balance sheet, not 113 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 3: the balance sheet of a dealer. It's like all Tesla. 114 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 3: So it's just like another drag And it's not a 115 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 3: surprise that like Tesla decided to do this before earning 116 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 3: the earnings call next week that said, we've been bracing 117 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 3: for I've been bracing for layoffs for weeks now because 118 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 3: in February we broke the news that like Tesla managers 119 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 3: were asked this question of like is this employee's role critical? 120 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 3: And so we sort of knew that something was up, 121 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: it was just a matter of like when and how severe. 122 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 3: But yeah, this is severe, and uh it also just 123 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 3: is they've hired like crazy in certain departments, Like they're 124 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 3: hiring all these AI and optimists and JOJO people, so 125 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 3: but now they're cutting like across the board pretty severely. 126 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 2: That's the part that I guess. I wonder if it's 127 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 2: just to a certain degree reflection of musk speed. You 128 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 2: ramp up, it's the speed of light, and then when 129 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: things go against you, yeah, you just and so maybe 130 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: there's an element of that in this case. Here you 131 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: both have factory workers who are losing their jobs and 132 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: white collar workers who are losing their jobs. In the past, 133 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: hasn't attended to mostly just be the white collar folks. 134 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 3: Oh no, No, when they cut, they cut across the board. 135 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 3: It's everything. It's engineers, it's hr it's recruiting, it's white collar, 136 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 3: it's support, it's policy, it's legal, it's manufacturing. They're cutting 137 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 3: across the board. 138 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: So two other things in terms of just the sort 139 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: of weirdness. One is Elon Musk has been saying for 140 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: a long time that Tesla's FSD, which is like where 141 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: he's supposedly going email full self driving, which has now 142 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: been called full self driving parentheses supervised, as pointed out 143 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: last week, kind of a weird name for a product. 144 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: But in any case, he's been saying, based, yeah, it 145 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: costs twelve thousand dollars one hundred and ninety or one 146 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: hundred ninety nine dollars a month. But it's going to 147 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: get more expensive over time because it's so valuable. If 148 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: you have a robotaxi, then you could send your car 149 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: out while you sleep. As we've discussed, David, this is 150 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: your retirement plan. You could pay hard, you might not 151 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: pay for more. You might pay more, right, but no, 152 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: but suddenly there was a sudden price cut of full 153 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: self driving, So you suddenly have this weird reset of 154 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: a bunch of the basic underpinnings of this company. The 155 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: last thing just to build on with Dana is saying 156 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: it's not just that they have a huge and a 157 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: huge bunch of cars that are sitting on their books. 158 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: They've been cutting prices super super aggressively for a very 159 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: long time, for like a year now. It's like you've 160 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: cut prices like crazy. There's a limit to which they 161 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: can discount. 162 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 2: I think at this point, you cut prices super aggressively 163 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 2: with the idea that was going to help you move 164 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 2: greater quantities of volume, and it's just not happening at all. 165 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: I mean, you've cut prices and your volumes are stagnant. Dana, 166 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 2: part of these layoffs there are two very big names 167 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 2: of people who are leaving. Two top executives tell us 168 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: about them and what we know about their departure from 169 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: the company. 170 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 3: So Tesla only has four named executive officers. One of 171 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: them is Drew Biglino. He's the senior vice president of 172 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 3: Engineering and the Energy Division. He was basically the de 173 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 3: facto CTO. He really kind of rose to prominence after J. B. 174 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 3: Strabo left the company. He stood with Elon at the 175 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 3: battery day that they did a couple of years ago. 176 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 3: Like Drew was an engineers went to Stanford like very 177 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 3: well known, like diehard Tesla employee. He resigned on Sunday, 178 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 3: and Tesla. 179 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: Even put out he resigned, Dana or he was resigned. 180 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 3: He resigned. I'm pretty sure never say absolute, but I 181 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 3: am pretty positive that he resigned. In the eight that 182 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 3: went out today, Tesla said that he resigned. So that's 183 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 3: just like a big loss in terms of institutional knowledge. 184 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 3: Drew oversee a lot of the battery development for the 185 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 3: forty six eighty cells that Tesla is trying to make 186 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 3: in house. And then the other key person who resigned, 187 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 3: which was almost more shocking to me, was Rohan Patel 188 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 3: who is the vice president of Business Development and Policy, 189 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 3: basically like the lead DC guy for Elon Musk. Anytime 190 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 3: Elon Musk goes to Capitol Hill, what if he's like 191 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 3: meeting with Schumer and talking about AI like Rohan was 192 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 3: right by his side. Rohan used to work in the 193 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 3: Obama White House, was like the architect of this whole 194 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 3: India strategy. And you know, Rohan was also the executive 195 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 3: that would push back against media stories on X and 196 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 3: was very vocal and had just like a big social 197 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 3: media presence in terms of trying to set the record 198 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 3: straight in terms of reporting on the company. So those 199 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 3: two people leaving, it's a sign to me that this 200 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 3: is just not like a normal layoff. This is the 201 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 3: company is shifting strategy. And some executives are at a 202 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 3: point where in their careers where they're like, you know what, 203 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 3: I'm out, I'm not gonna do this, I am it 204 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 3: is a good time for me to pass the torch, 205 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 3: like I'm gonna spend time with my kids, like you 206 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 3: go do your ROBOTAXI thing. 207 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: So with rohuntel as Dana points out, former Obama White 208 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: House figure also very much a ev sustainability somebody who's 209 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: kind of interest in this. If you look at his background, right, 210 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: he's done a lot of work on climate stuff. Of course, 211 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: big part of Tesla's DC strategy is selling a company, 212 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: has been selling the company as a climate solution. His 213 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: departure on top of this other one. It's like it's 214 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: basically two guys who are really bought into EV's maybe 215 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 1: the probably the two most important people at the company 216 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: besides Elon Musk having to do with EV's, and they're 217 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: both out. 218 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 2: With the collapse in the price yesterday and the collapse 219 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 2: in the price we saw at the opening of the 220 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 2: session today, this company is now worth less than a 221 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 2: half a trillion dollars, still an awful lot of money, 222 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: But at its peak, Tesla was worth one point three 223 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: trillion dollars. It is now declined in value eight hundred 224 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 2: billion dollars, which is a lot of money. Dana and Max, 225 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 2: I will hit you guys with an anecdote I heard 226 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: over the weekend from my mother. My mom's a source 227 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 2: of lots of information in good Tibbets. A neighbor of 228 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 2: hers she noticed the other day suddenly was not driving 229 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 2: his Tesla, and she said, what happened? To your tesla. 230 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 2: He said, no, I decided I cannot abide mister Musk. 231 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 2: I'm getting rid of it. He got rid of it. 232 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 2: He essentially was too embarrassed to own it, and he 233 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 2: replaced it with an all ev BMW. I'll just say this, 234 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 2: it's come up in the past, mister Musk, for all 235 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: he's done for this company, for making it that company 236 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: at some point was worth one point three trillion dollars, 237 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 2: and for all the brain power and so on and 238 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 2: so forth, he probably is about the worst brand ambassador 239 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 2: in the history of the world right now in terms 240 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 2: of alienating his core customer base. 241 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: Max, I'm hesitant to go that far, just because he 242 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: is a branding genius and this trillion dollar plus valuation, 243 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: which was totally bonkers by any normal you talk to 244 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: any autoanalysts, right, it's it's so crazy, it's confusing, right, 245 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: And it's like entirely about Elon Musk's force of personality. 246 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: But are you conflating that is the value of the stock, 247 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 2: and that is the fanboys who pile into the stock. Yeah, 248 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: that's different, I feel like to a certain degree than 249 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 2: in Connecticut. 250 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: Well, I think it's so First of all, I think 251 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: it's all connected. I think that the Tesla brand is complicated, 252 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: and it incorporates obviously like climate change and like doing something, 253 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: and but also it also incorporates the kind of success 254 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: narrative around Elon Musk. I agree with you, David, that 255 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: it's been like an incredibly self destructive period. I've been 256 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: thinking a lot about King Lear. I mean, it feels 257 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 1: like Musk is in this kind of weird destructive late stag, 258 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: Like he's just like looking at the world around him 259 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: and looking at all these assets and like one by 260 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: one undermining them in various ways. And you know, this 261 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: pivot to software, which of course makes financial sense, it 262 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: really runs counter to a big part of the Elon 263 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: Musk brand and the Elon Musk mythology. The whole big 264 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: thing that people would talk about with Elon Musk, the 265 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: thing that got people so excited about Elon Musk is like, 266 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: this is a guy that builds stuff. Right the rest 267 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: of Silicon Valley they're just making apps, and here's Elon Musk, industrialist. 268 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 2: And industrialist of our times. 269 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 3: I'm going to push back a little bit on this, guys, 270 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 3: because if you read Masterplan Part duh from twenty sixteen. 271 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 2: Because you chied in me last week, Dan, I read it. 272 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: I spent all weekend reading it. 273 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: Do you read it like one hundred times? 274 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: Sure? 275 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 3: Okay, autonomy has always been part of the plan, and 276 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 3: so it's not real it's to call it a pivot 277 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 3: to autonomy. Yes, it seems like it's clearly a pivot 278 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 3: that the robotaxi is taking priority over the twenty five 279 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 3: thousand dollars consumer facing car. But like Elon has been 280 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 3: upset yes with autonomous cars for like a decade now. 281 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 3: I mean, he's been promising this forever, and I think 282 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 3: what has changed just that he's very confident about FSD 283 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 3: version twelve, so confident that they dropped beta from the name. 284 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 3: They have all this data, they think it's going to work. 285 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 3: He's all in, and he's just basically, we've got to 286 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 3: spend all this money now on compute. We've got to 287 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 3: really reorient the next phase of the growth is going 288 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 3: to be the robotaxi. I don't think investors are fully 289 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 3: buying it. But it's also like the message, the messaging 290 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 3: has been so murky that it's not a problem as 291 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: to why. 292 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 2: So, first of all, my answer to your question is no. 293 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 2: I read it, and I read it ninety nine, I 294 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 2: read one hundred times. But that is the issue. If 295 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 2: you are going to save the Earth from climate change 296 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 2: and we are going to stave off the worst effects 297 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 2: of climate change, is the cheap Tesla not significantly more 298 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 2: important than the robotaxis. 299 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 3: Well, you won't need to sell as many cars to 300 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 3: consumers if the robotaxi can just operate twenty four seven 301 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 3: and drive you around when you need to get where 302 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 3: you need to go. And the robotaxi is still going 303 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 3: to be electric. So there's like climate arguments to be 304 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 3: made about optimizing the vehicles on the road, and like 305 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 3: why do we have so much traffic because people are 306 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 3: driving so much like we could have. There's like a 307 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 3: lot of arguments around the climate imperatives around a robotaxi. 308 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 3: But yeah, it still seems like a big shift, like 309 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 3: the company is at this big inflection point and not 310 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 3: everyone is on board with it, including some executives. 311 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: Apparently electric cars have downsides, right, and when making a 312 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: car is an expense, you know, is carbon intensive, but 313 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: come on, like one of these things is real. It's 314 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: a car, they work. You can buy them their electric motors, 315 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: and one of them is imaginary. There is no Tesla 316 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: full self driving car. There is no robotaxi. There is 317 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: no clear pathway to getting a robotaxi. What we have right. 318 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: Now is there really why is there no clear path? 319 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: It's going to require a regulatory overhaul that would be BACTLL, 320 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: a redesign of our infrastructure, it would be it's a 321 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: massive undertaking that has not even begun. And again, as 322 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: I said, like last week, you have companies that are 323 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: much further along on this kind of regulatory thing and 324 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: they are struggling. Cruise GM big company invested a ton 325 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: of money in getting its cars on the road, getting 326 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: its robotaxis on the road, had to pull them off. 327 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: And so it's just there is no clear path here. 328 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 2: So autonomous is not just hard, it's really really hard. 329 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 2: I get it. Okay, very good. All right, We're gonna 330 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 2: move on to mister Musk's big upcoming trip to India. 331 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 2: So we're now joined by Dan Flatley, a national security 332 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 2: reporter here at Bloomberg, and Dan, along with Dana and Max, 333 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 2: is going to tell us all about Elon's big trip 334 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 2: coming up to India. Dan, when does it start and 335 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 2: what exactly is on mister Musk's agenda here. 336 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 5: So the visit itself is sort of timed at the 337 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 5: beginning of elections in India, so the elections will take 338 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 5: you almost a month to sort of roll through the 339 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 5: whole country. But essentially there's something to be gained by 340 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 5: both parties in this, and that Musk he's trying to 341 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 5: get beyond the US, beyond China, trying to reach new markets, 342 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 5: and Mody is sort of trying to promote this pro 343 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 5: business agenda, and so both parties have something to gain 344 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 5: from this. Of course, Tesla's under a bit of strain 345 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 5: at the moment because some not great results in terms 346 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 5: of the valuation and some layoffs and things like that. 347 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 5: So you know, it comes at kind of an important 348 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 5: time both politically and for business reasons for both of 349 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 5: these individuals. 350 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: Now Dan, knowing what we know about Elon and knowing 351 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 2: a bit what we know about mister Mody, are these 352 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 2: two are simpatico in their views of the world. 353 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think that Musk is sort of 354 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 5: has kind of cultivated this image not only as a 355 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 5: thought leader but also somebody who's become more and more 356 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 5: interested in politics. And in that regard, he has cultivated 357 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 5: relationships with folks like Modi, folks like Javier Milay in Argentina, 358 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 5: other sort of free market enthusiasts, let's call them. You 359 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 5: could call them authoritarian. You could say potentially that some 360 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 5: of the leaders in these governments where he's visiting have 361 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 5: authoritarian tendencies or certainly trying to stay in power. So 362 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 5: this is sort of part and parcel of his idea 363 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 5: of having not just influence over the world of technology. 364 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 5: And so yes, there's sympatico in that sense, and certainly 365 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 5: it's a reach beyond sort of the kind of the 366 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,239 Speaker 5: normal places where folks like this would go to that 367 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 5: kind of influence. 368 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 2: Now, Max speaking of strong regimes, authoritarian esque regimes, as 369 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 2: he travels to India, what does our sense of how 370 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 2: this is being received over in China, which is also 371 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 2: a very important market for Misty. 372 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've seen this with consumer electronics as Apple 373 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: has attempted to diversify its supply chain. China has kind 374 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: of tended to view India's efforts to encourage, you know, 375 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: people to set up manufacturing operations there as in competition 376 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: with them with China. When China banned the iPhone in 377 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: some government offices last year. It was viewed by some 378 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: as a response to Apple's efforts. And what we saw 379 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: ahead of this visit is the Global Times, which is 380 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: essentially a government controlled newspaper running an editorial saying, oh boy, 381 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: you know, Tesla's making a big mistake. This is going 382 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: to be a lot harder than Elon Musk thinks, you know, 383 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: essentially at least dumping cold water on this, if not 384 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: maybe a subtle warning to Elon Musk over what China 385 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: might see as an effort to diversify to get to 386 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: invest less in China and more in India. So I 387 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: think that is going to be a real challenge for 388 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: Elon Musk. The other thing is like the Indian electric 389 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: car market is small. 390 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, let me ask you that perhaps the eb market 391 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 2: is smaller in India now, but is there potentially a 392 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 2: gold mine down the road for the company. 393 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 394 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 5: I mean interestingly, this is one of the areas in 395 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 5: which Elon Musk and the Biden administration are kind of aligned. 396 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 5: The Biden administration, for a lot of different reasons, but 397 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,959 Speaker 5: some national security reasons, has put a lot of focus 398 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 5: on India as a counter to China. And so there 399 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 5: is potentially some not just business benefits that could come 400 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 5: from this alliance between Elon Musk and the Rendra Modi, 401 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 5: but also some national security dividends that could come in 402 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,239 Speaker 5: the sense that if Musk is able to get in there, 403 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 5: if Tesla's able to get in there and develop the 404 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 5: electric vehicle industry in India or develop the technological capabilities 405 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 5: of that country in ways that haven't previously been seen, 406 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 5: it could provide a counterweight to China. And ultimately that 407 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 5: is something that not just the Biden administration, but national 408 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 5: security folks here in Washington across Republican and Democratic administrations 409 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 5: want to see. 410 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: There's another opportunity for Tessel here, which is that they 411 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 3: are really trying to diversify away from just selling cars. 412 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,479 Speaker 3: You know, they're all in on the robotaxi, this promise 413 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 3: of autonomy. But they have an energy division, and the 414 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 3: big driver of their energy division is the megapac, which 415 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 3: is these massive batteries that are sold to utility companies. 416 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 3: And India has a real infrastructure problem when it comes 417 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 3: to electricity, and you cannot develop an electric car market 418 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 3: unless you have a pretty stable, reliable source of electric 419 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 3: power and megapack is a big solution for that, right 420 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,719 Speaker 3: because it allows you to store solar and wind, and 421 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 3: it's been hugely popular here in the US and in 422 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 3: markets like Australia and the UK. And so while everyone 423 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 3: is waiting to see if there's this big announcement that 424 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 3: Tesla's going to open up an electric vehicle plant in 425 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 3: India at some point down the road, I think we 426 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 3: should also watch to see what they say on the 427 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 3: energy side of that equation. 428 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 2: Right, And then as you talk about that, it also 429 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 2: reminds me of just going back to their first segment 430 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 2: of our show here in which we talked about how 431 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 2: bad sales have been for Tesla and how much demand 432 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 2: is drying up. And I guess I just wonder, in 433 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 2: the abstract, Jesus, does Tesla really need another factory in 434 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 2: the world. 435 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 3: Not right now? So they had their they so basically 436 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 3: their over capacity right now? Are they are not selling 437 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 3: the cars They ended the quarter with forty six thousand 438 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 3: cars in inventory. They already announced plans to build a 439 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 3: plant in Mexico, which has not really broken ground yet, 440 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 3: so they don't need a third plant now, No, not 441 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 3: at all, which is why like any announcement. I think 442 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 3: I would be surprised if there's like a firm deadline 443 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 3: as to when that investment would take place. 444 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: Especially we're getting all these signs that they're either scaling 445 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: back or pausing or killing the This more inexpensive car max. 446 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 2: Isn't the argument that and this is what the inter 447 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 2: tubes tell me that in order to penetrate the Indian market, 448 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: which will be the authority is down the road, an 449 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 2: enormous ev market, you need to make cars in India. 450 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 2: They will only allow you to import so many from. 451 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: They're gonna Elon Musk Is gonna need to make some 452 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: kind of concession to Mody to allow him to at 453 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: least import cars. 454 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 3: And Tesla got what they wanted because India lowered the tariffs. 455 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 3: That was the big thing, like in terms of concessions 456 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 3: like India's rea. 457 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 2: So they were the tariffs. But because the promise has 458 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 2: to be though, all right, I'll lower the teriffs for 459 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 2: you now. Oh and by the way, you got to 460 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 2: where's your ears have to invest? 461 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: Right? Right? And there's been some I think there have 462 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: been some reports of Teslas sourcing more, more parts and 463 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: so on from India. So there probably are intermediary steps. 464 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: But remember Elon musk Is, as he's told us before, 465 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: between two growth waves, really struggling with the stock price 466 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: showing up in India. As you said, David, huge market 467 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: potentially anyway, right, small market now, but a lot of people. 468 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: It does maybe help him change the story from no 469 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: one will buy their cars to look at all this 470 00:24:58,880 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: growth on the. 471 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 2: Hurricket now tapping into the world's hottest market. Look at 472 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 2: us go Dan. Another key product that mister Mosque would 473 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: be looking to sell in India is Starlink and the 474 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 2: Starlink satellites. We've seen how they've been used now on 475 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 2: battlefields across the globe, but moreover just in remote parts 476 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: of the world. India certainly has lots of remote parts. 477 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 2: Is this a big push here? Is this part of 478 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 2: his push to get Starlink there? Yeah, certainly. 479 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 5: I mean I think that that was one of the 480 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 5: one of the focuses of his talks with Javier Milay 481 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 5: of Argentina, and I expect that it will be part 482 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 5: of his discussions with Mody and the Indian government as well, because, 483 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 5: as you mentioned, David, Starlink and SpaceX these are services 484 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 5: that land even more squarely in the national security realm. 485 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 5: This is something that is squarely in the national security sphere, 486 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 5: and it's something that I'm sure that he'll be talking 487 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 5: about with Mody. But he's also there's lots of back 488 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 5: and forth between US officials about how this should be controlled, 489 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 5: how should be regulated, whether it should be regulated, how 490 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 5: it's being used, and is it being used counter to 491 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 5: US interests. So these are very active discussions that are 492 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 5: happening not just abroad but also here in the United States. 493 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 5: So it'd be very interesting to see where they land 494 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 5: on that. 495 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 2: So he's just on the heels of another meeting last 496 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 2: week at a Tesla plant with the Argentine President Javier Milay. 497 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 2: Now he's about to head off to India to see 498 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 2: mode this Milays visit beyond two libertarian cool dudes taking 499 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 2: funny pictures together, what was the purpose of it and 500 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 2: what does it do for mister Musk. 501 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 5: You know, hard to say exactly what the larger business 502 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 5: or geopolitical purpose of this meeting would be. Obviously, these 503 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 5: are two sort of fellow travelers, as you say, as 504 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 5: the libertarian school of thought, but there is an interesting 505 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 5: line to be drawn between both Musk's engagement with Argentine 506 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 5: government and the Indian government in that a lot of 507 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 5: what Musk has done over the years has been heavily 508 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 5: dependent on some sort of government policy or intervention in 509 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 5: some way or other, whether it's with SpaceX and the 510 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 5: rocket programs, whether it's with ev credits or other sorts 511 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 5: of things with Tesla in some of the earlier days 512 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 5: of its history. So there is, despite Musk's libertarian leanings, 513 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 5: he does have a lot of ties to governments around 514 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 5: the world, both here in the US, in India, in 515 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 5: Argentina and other places China certainly. So it's an interesting 516 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 5: kind of paradox in the sense that he has this 517 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 5: very free market orientation and yet he does need to 518 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 5: talk to governments quite frequently in order to make sure 519 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 5: that his companies are positioned in the best possible posture 520 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 5: to do business there. And so I'm certain that while 521 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 5: there may be no deliverables quote unquote, as they say 522 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 5: here in DC from that meeting with Melee, there certainly 523 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 5: is a relationship growing there and in other places as well, 524 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 5: that he wants to maintain. 525 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: Just it really feels like we've talked on this podcast 526 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: about geopolitical Elon this kind of globe trotting figure who's 527 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: going to Italy and going to Auschwitz and meeting with 528 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: NT Yahou and so on, And it really feels he's 529 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: getting a lot of very impressive sort of pr opportunities, 530 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: and this MODI one would be one. I think the 531 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: MELA one maybe ranks a little bit lower in terms 532 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: of I for my impressiveness. But what I'll say is 533 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: Elon has, as Dan saying, historically, been incredibly effective at 534 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: basically extracting concessions from governments, figuring out what he has 535 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: to give and getting what he wants. And with China, 536 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: right when he opened up in China, he got the 537 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: Chinese government to change the rules for foreign auto manufacturer. 538 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: They're the first, the only car company from the US 539 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: that doesn't have a joint venture, that doesn't have a 540 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: domestic partner. And I don't think it's clear the current 541 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: iteration of geopolitical Elon feels kind of scattershot and half 542 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: baked and somewhat you know, maybe like they're sort of 543 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: paying attention to how this might affect Tesla, but also 544 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: he seems to be thinking a lot about how it's 545 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: going to play on X and it's like we're caught 546 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: halfway between genuine diplomacy and mugging for social media. 547 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 3: The other word I just want to mention is lithium. 548 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 3: So a big part of the whole ev strategy is 549 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 3: where you're getting your raw minerals from. And we have 550 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 3: this whole we're all waiting for, like final Treasury guidance 551 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 3: about thirty D and the foreign entities of concern and 552 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 3: which like you can't get minerals via China, and there's 553 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 3: all these loopholes that automakers are lobbying for, and it's 554 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 3: like a whole big thing in DC, as dan Well knows. 555 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 3: But Tesla needs to get their raw materials from somewhere, 556 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 3: and Argentina is a big source of lithium, so there 557 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 3: could have been like a real supply chain strategy there. 558 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 3: But it seems also that like Elon's geopolitical Elons World 559 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 3: Tour is often like touring around with the autocrats of 560 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 3: the world, like Bolsonaro, and it's like there's this brethren 561 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 3: of rising autocrats. Oh seem to be the places where 562 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 3: he is spending his time. 563 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, Max, And it seems like at times he's willing 564 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 2: to give up some of the free speech stuff that 565 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: he feels so strongly about on x in exchange for 566 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 2: access to these. 567 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and look like Elon Musk in the past, caving 568 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: essentially to demands of Turkey or various other countries that 569 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: are restricting speech in ways that maybe he personally doesn't 570 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: disagree with. That's what every tech company does. This thing 571 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: in Brazil feels like more of an aberration. It's kind 572 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: of part of what I'm trying to say, like, it 573 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: feels more like breaking from what had been what had 574 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: felt like a consistent, coherent strategy to something that is 575 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: more scattershot and that looks like what it looks like, 576 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: that looks like a guy who wants to brow down 577 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: with some cool guy dictators. 578 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 5: I was looking at some of Musk's tweets or posts 579 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 5: i should say, recently, and reading some of the stuff 580 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 5: that he said, some of the reporting on his sort 581 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 5: of management style, and it sort of strikes me that 582 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 5: one of the things, one of the things that he 583 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 5: may have in common with some of these more authoritarian 584 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 5: type leaders is that he has a vision for the future. 585 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 5: He seems to have a very definite idea of the 586 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 5: way that things should be done. And that kind of 587 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 5: vision is one could say, or one might argue, is 588 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:30,959 Speaker 5: more easily implemented in a strong authoritarian government where democracy 589 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 5: is messire change is hard to implement, there's a lot 590 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 5: of pushback, and so he may feel that he has 591 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 5: a better chance of implementing this vision. 592 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: I don't think we should sleep on this lithium thing, 593 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: because that is hugely important. That's hugely important for Tesla 594 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: And who knows, like maybe the weird memes and the 595 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: cool photos and stuff with melee are just a distraction 596 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: for like a major commodity deal. 597 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 2: That that's true, Argentina does have a good amount of lithium. Dan, 598 00:31:58,560 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 2: thanks again for joining us. 599 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 5: Thank you. 600 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 2: Now to our feud of the week. Let's all listen to. 601 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 4: This. This is a. 602 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 3: Difficult thing to explain, but we're having a major technical 603 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 3: air where all the song timbers are. 604 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: Double speed and I have not practiced the math because 605 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: I'm not fastened math. But I am going to I 606 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: am going to. 607 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 5: Handy this. 608 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:47,479 Speaker 4: All right, Let's try this again, y'all. 609 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 3: Don't trudge me for being bad at calculating things. 610 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,239 Speaker 2: So so Max, I mean I don't know, man, I mean, 611 00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 2: help me out. Here, what is going on. 612 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, David, but that makes me 613 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: really confident about Robotaxis going forward. That is Grimes. That's 614 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: Elon Musk's former partner, the mother of some of his children, 615 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: performing is the word. 616 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 2: At She was performing at Coachell. 617 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: She was attempting to do DJ stuff, and she was 618 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: attempting to mix two different tracks. I think I've gotten 619 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: really deep on on DJ reddit and essentially she was 620 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: unable to master her mixing board. And over the course, 621 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: they're actually several or maybe more than several clips just 622 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: like this where she's stopping the set and screaming and 623 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: really and true frustrate real, I cannot get this through 624 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: this phone tree right now. I've been pressing zero a 625 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: million times and they won't. I cannot get a human. 626 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: It was some serious frustration. And of course this has 627 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to do with Elon Musk, except again that 628 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: Grimes is his ex or I don't know who knows. 629 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 2: It has to have something to do with the on 630 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 2: the show. I will I'm going to bring it back. 631 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: Don't worry. Elon Musk has a long running feud with Coachella, 632 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 1: so in certain ways Grimes is just you know, getting 633 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: in on an pre existing feud, which, as I understand it, 634 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: began in twenty twenty when Elon Musk tweeted that Coachella 635 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: sucked and that it was better five years earlier when 636 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: you could discover new bands. And I went back to 637 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen to. 638 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 2: Try to figure out which new bands. 639 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know which band he found, but Drake 640 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: performed there Steely Dan, so a couple possibilities for the 641 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: unknown bands that Elon may have discovered at Coachella in 642 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen or twenty fifty Dan. 643 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 2: If nothing else got you listening to that, it's hard 644 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 2: to listen to. You have to feel bad for grind. 645 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's hugely embarrassing. You're like a DJ and 646 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 3: you can't mix on the fly, and you're in front 647 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 3: of this crowd of people, and she's so frustrated that 648 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 3: she's screaming in agony. That's that was terrible. 649 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 2: There were moments of last week's podcast that we sounded 650 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 2: very similar. 651 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: I I kind of liked it as a performance. Honestly, 652 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: would you have first of all, would you have known 653 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: if she hadn't screamed in frustration? Right? 654 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 2: So, I feel like this is a big moment for her. 655 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 1: In a way, you're giving people their money's worth bye bye. 656 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: So by engaging with the material rather than just like 657 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: pressing your space bar and your laptop and letting it go. 658 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 2: This is if you actually think about it. Then so 659 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 2: Elon both sticks it to Coachella, right, which who he 660 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 2: really doesn't like at all, and at the same time 661 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 2: he boosts Grimes his career. 662 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: So I also want to say, what do you want 663 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: to say? Well, two things. One is to tell Grimes 664 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: this was an impressive performance by any normal measure. Grimes 665 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: was delivered to the stage in a gigantic mechanized spider, 666 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: and then she actually apologized for this spider. Uh no, No, 667 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: never apologized for the spider. She apologized for the screw up, 668 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,479 Speaker 1: essentially blaming the help. He was like, the problem here 669 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 1: is that I didn't do it myself. It was the 670 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: staff screwed up, which is definitely I think how Elon 671 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 1: we played it as. 672 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 2: Well, probably so then we shouldn't feel bad for her. No, 673 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 2: and but actually not only she would not feel bad 674 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 2: for because you just told us this is gonna this 675 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 2: is gonna make her career. This is her breakthrough. Moment. 676 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 2: I'm sure she should thank the staff is what she 677 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 2: should be doing here. 678 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: I don't know that I said that. I think what 679 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: I said is that this was a more interesting performance 680 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 1: than Grimes might have otherwise delivered. 681 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 2: What I can say about this performance, it is the 682 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 2: first performance by Grimes that I've ever heard in my life. 683 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 2: That I will say. 684 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: There is so much good content on the internet about this. 685 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: There TikTok's rating. They're like seven different screams and people 686 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: rating the different screams with different energy. DJ read it 687 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: is all over this. You could you can go down 688 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: a deep rabbit. 689 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 2: But yeah no, And to that point, Max wasn't isn't there. 690 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 2: One of the theories being bandied about is that this 691 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,800 Speaker 2: was Elon sticking it to Grimes as well. 692 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: So I've seen two different theories. One is that Elon hacked. 693 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: Elon and Grimes are in the middle of a custody battle, 694 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: as we've talked about on the show, that Elon hacked 695 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: her DJ equipment to embarrass her. The other theory is 696 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: that some people have noticed that some of these videos 697 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: from Coachella have been taken down, that Elon is suppressing, 698 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, shadow banning. If you will the people who 699 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,399 Speaker 1: are having fun at Grimes's expense. Of course, these two 700 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: theories are are in complete contradiction. I will say the 701 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: shadow man theory basically, anytime anything happens on Twitter, pre Elon, 702 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,919 Speaker 1: post Elon, people complain about shadow banning. So I don't 703 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: think that Elon has been twiddling the knobs on the algorithm, 704 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: hitting the sink beat button on the algorithm, if you will, 705 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: to try to suppress Grimes is thing. I think the 706 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: Coachella hacking scenario again very far fetched, although maybe slightly 707 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: less far fetched than the ex hacking scenario. 708 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 2: And for our listeners, you should just know that Max 709 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 2: is wearing a tin foil hat as Lazy's out for 710 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 2: us here. 711 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,919 Speaker 1: Kids, if you're an aspiring DJ, you what you want 712 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: to do before you get up on stage and Coachella 713 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: is have a backup mix that's ready to go so 714 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: that you this doesn't happen to you. 715 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 4: Here we go. 716 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: That's it. 717 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:14,760 Speaker 4: That is the uh. 718 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 2: That's frankly, that's the single biggest takeaway the entire show. 719 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Magnus Henrickson, who is also 720 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 2: our supervising producer, Naomi Shaven, and Rayhan HARMANSI are senior editors. 721 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 2: The idea for this very show also came from Rayhan 722 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 2: Blake Maple's Handles Engineering, and we get special editing assistants 723 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 2: from Jeff Grocott. The Elon Inc. Theme is written and 724 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 2: performed by Takea Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura. Brendan Francis Newnham 725 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 2: is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the head 726 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,240 Speaker 2: of Bloomberg Podcasts. I'm David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, 727 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 2: rate and review our show, it'll help other listenerspot find us. 728 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 2: See you next week. 729 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 4: Mhmm.