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Speaker 1: Welcome to the away and I'm then Alercon, I'm John

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Speaker 1: green Don.

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Speaker 2: We have a lot to talk about today.

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Speaker 1: I think none of us wanted to have to talk

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Speaker 1: about this, but we should probably we have to, And

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Speaker 1: of course I'm talking about AFCON Farce. Take two, Morocco,

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Speaker 1: the Karens of African Football.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to.

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Speaker 1: Just sort of like fill our listeners in on what

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Speaker 1: is happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Senegal won the Afcon tournament according to the

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Speaker 2: referee on the field and also according to getting to

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Speaker 2: have a parade in your home country with the trophy,

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Speaker 2: which I think is the definition of winning the tournament. Actually,

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Speaker 2: I think whoever gets to have the parade won the

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Speaker 2: tournament pretty much. But Morocco filed a protest and said, actually,

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Speaker 2: since the Senegalese team tried to leave the field to

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Speaker 2: protest the penalty decision and interrupted the game, we should

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Speaker 2: actually be the champions of AFCON. And that is apparently

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Speaker 2: what is now going to happen Forever after Morocco will

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Speaker 2: be remembered as the champions of AFCON.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, okay, so they filed a complaint that

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Speaker 1: the African Football Confederation could have just you know, knocked down.

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Speaker 1: But there's been allegations of corruption, allegations of of you know,

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Speaker 1: just mishandling of the situation, which seems self evident.

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Speaker 2: If the ref had called.

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Speaker 1: The game over in that moment, I think that would

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Speaker 1: have been you know, controversial but acceptable, but you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of following the rules of the game. Because the

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Speaker 1: senategolsee players did leave the bitch right, but he didn't

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Speaker 1: call it then, and so then it's done. It's done.

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Speaker 1: So I heard on the Guardian they called it the

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Speaker 1: longest bar review in history, seven days and it's just

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Speaker 1: kind of appalling. I mean, you know, I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about actually in terms of club soccer and club football.

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Speaker 1: So you know, those who follow English Premier League know

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Speaker 1: that Man City, for example, has one hundred and seventeen

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Speaker 1: pending charges for.

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Speaker 2: For financially regularities.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, financially regulators is cheating basically, you know, financial doping,

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Speaker 1: you could call it. And and since you know Arsenal

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Speaker 1: was second place for a couple of those those seasons, theoretically,

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Speaker 1: whenever the FA gets around to adjudicating and deciding what happened,

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Speaker 1: Arsenal could win retroactively be declared champions for two of

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Speaker 1: those years. I don't feel like any Arsenal fan is

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Speaker 1: going to really celebrate those and so I'm wondering even

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Speaker 1: like for Morocco, like what is that? Do you really

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Speaker 1: feel proud of your I mean, I think you should

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Speaker 1: feel proud of your team to make it the finals.

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Speaker 1: I think that you should feel proud, pride for your

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Speaker 1: country and you know and love for your team no

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Speaker 1: matter what happens. But are you gonna feel pride as

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Speaker 1: if you won at this point? Is that really something

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Speaker 1: gonna that's gonna happen?

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Speaker 2: I don't think so. Right, Well, I gotta tell you,

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Speaker 2: as a Liverpool fan, if those titles get revoked by

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Speaker 2: Manchester City, I will one hundred percent celebrate our new

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Speaker 2: titles really well. In this sense at least, I'm not gonna.

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna insist upon a retroactive parade where we

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Speaker 2: where we hold up like three English Premier League titles

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Speaker 2: or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Sure from Brazil and bring them back for.

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Speaker 2: It's your turn, buddy. Uh you did you did it? Fella?

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Speaker 2: Get uh get saudio money back on the bus? Uh No?

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Speaker 2: But I I would say I would take those titles

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Speaker 2: and I would I would lord them over our rivals.

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Speaker 2: So I would say to Manchester United supporters, we have

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Speaker 2: twenty three titles and you have twenty. I would one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent do.

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Speaker 1: That right, right right, and this you know, I respect

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Speaker 1: that level of pettiness because I also have that. I

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Speaker 1: just feel like, you know, this is not a case

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Speaker 1: of financial regularities. This is not a case of cheating.

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Speaker 1: This is a case of a situation that may have

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Speaker 1: been we could argue if it was adjudicated incorrectly on

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Speaker 1: the field, but it was uh. And then in you know,

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Speaker 1: there was still extra time to play. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: know Braman Diaz still took that dumb Panenka and then uh,

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Speaker 1: Senegal still went out and scored a goal in an

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Speaker 1: extra time and are deserving champions of Africa, absolutely times Africa.

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Speaker 1: When I went in such a hostile situation, you know,

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Speaker 1: environment is a real accomplishment and no one can take

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Speaker 1: that away from them, not even calf.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what I think is the central thing. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think afterwards one of the Senegohese players posted a

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Speaker 2: picture of himself holding the trophy and was like, what

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Speaker 2: are you gonna do? I'm with my trophy and my

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Speaker 2: winner's medal, like I'm not giving them back. No, nor

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Speaker 2: should they, And so I think ultimately what will probably

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Speaker 2: happen is that twenty years from now will remember both

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Speaker 2: Morocco and Senegal as different kinds of champions of that tournament. No,

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Speaker 2: I disagree. Morocco will always make a case that won

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Speaker 2: the tournament as a result of this decision. Yeah, and the.

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Speaker 1: Rest of the world will know. The rest of the

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Speaker 1: world will know that they didn't. So I think in

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Speaker 1: twenty years will will It'll be like I remember that

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Speaker 1: time that Brahman Diaz tried to Penenka and then went

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Speaker 1: on to lose the the in.

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Speaker 2: Their own countries. Listening, by the way, this is a

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Speaker 2: brutal listen for I know he's a fan of the pod,

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Speaker 2: so maybe should be a little kinder to him.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, you know I'm waiting for his his email,

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Speaker 1: you know, in our inbox after this.

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Speaker 2: Look.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it also demonstrates the power and

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Speaker 1: prestige of Morocco within the African Federation, right because they're

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Speaker 1: you know, there were some finalists there probably the strongest

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Speaker 1: team or the team best place to do really well

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Speaker 1: in this upcoming tournament. So I think there's every reason

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Speaker 1: to think that. Oh and they're also co hosting the

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Speaker 1: World Cup with Spain, you know, in four years, I believe.

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Speaker 1: So it just seems to me that there's influence happening.

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Speaker 2: You know, something's happening there. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, you

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Speaker 2: can only feel like the results on the pitch are

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Speaker 2: the results because there's so much corruption in international football

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Speaker 2: federations that you know, like if I don't believe that

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump really won the FIFA Peace Prize either, you know, look,

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Speaker 2: I mean I think that's that's he had a peace prize.

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Speaker 2: He didn't win the Nobel Peace Prize. That's an it's

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Speaker 2: still it's an illegitimate peace prize, is my point. It

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Speaker 2: is not a legitimate peace prize, right right, right right now.

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Speaker 1: More than ever, I just hope the benzwel And baseball

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Speaker 1: team doesn't give him the World Baseball Classic Trophy because

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Speaker 1: he doesn't deserve that. What a great game that was.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, Sorry, that's a different sport, different sport. Was a

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Speaker 2: great game. That was a great game, though, And you know,

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Speaker 2: I to see the tier in the eye, not to

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Speaker 2: get Looston Baseball, but just for a moment, we're talking

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Speaker 2: about international sports in general. To see the tear in

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Speaker 2: the eye of the Venezuelan relief pitcher as he pitched

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Speaker 2: the final pitch was so moving, Like you forget, Like

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Speaker 2: I remember seeing Louis Suarez cry once in the middle

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Speaker 2: of a game, I think, like Uruguay were losing, uh

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Speaker 2: and going to be out of the World Cup, and

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Speaker 2: he started to cry like before the game was over.

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Speaker 2: And you forget that these are human beings and that

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Speaker 2: the even even on the pitch, in the in the

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Speaker 2: heat of the moment, they are feeling profound things. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, and I know you're totally right. I will say

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Speaker 1: that Latin Americans we cry a lot, and there was

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Speaker 1: kind of there's a lot of pride and the overwhelming

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Speaker 1: feeling of of sort of representing your country really often

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Speaker 1: manifests as tears. I was very moved by that. I

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Speaker 1: was very moved by the joy of the Venezuelans and

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Speaker 1: very proud of them and very happy for them. And

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Speaker 1: many of my Venezuelan friends, even who don't watch baseball

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Speaker 1: or follow baseball, we're absolutely floored. And I want to

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Speaker 1: say this, John, I think football in sport is about

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Speaker 1: these moments of joy, right, These moments of transcendence. International

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Speaker 1: football national teams is about these moments when the kind

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Speaker 1: of difficult, complicated, polarized ways that we all interpret the

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Speaker 1: countries we belong to kind of fade away and we

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Speaker 1: all feel something, feel united, feel like we can get

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Speaker 1: behind a team, and everyone is always sort of like

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Speaker 1: cheering for a representation of the country that they imagine

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Speaker 1: that they want to live in, whatever imperfect version of

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Speaker 1: that they're currently residing in right or even connected to.

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Speaker 1: And because football and because sport is about those moments

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Speaker 1: of joy, the Senegalese one because they experienced that moment

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Speaker 1: of joy, and the Moroccans did not. The Moroccans experienced

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Speaker 1: another kind of transcendence, moment of heartbreak and desperation and

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Speaker 1: sadness and positive recrimination and you know, all kinds of

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Speaker 1: other emotions that they're also valid, and you know we

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Speaker 1: all learn from them and blah blah blah. But the

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Speaker 1: Senegalese experienced the joy which is at the very lifeblood

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Speaker 1: of international sport and of international football. And for that,

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Speaker 1: twenty years from now, forty years from now, I will

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Speaker 1: always think of them as the winners of Afghan Well Daniel.

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Speaker 2: Before we dive deep into the English national team and

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Speaker 2: all of that. I just want to say that recently

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Speaker 2: on our high school's Instagram page, there was a photograph

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Speaker 2: published of you playing football. We can put it on

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Speaker 2: the screen now for YouTube viewers, but for everyone else,

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Speaker 2: I'll just describe the photograph. Imagine the most beautiful man

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Speaker 2: in the world. Okay, all right? I think transcend transcendent

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Speaker 2: as both a physical specimen and as an intellect leaning

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Speaker 2: slightly askance, as if perfectly balanced upon the side of

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Speaker 2: one foot, absolutely attacking a football. And that is this

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Speaker 2: moment that was captured by an Indian Springs photographer in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five. Sean, can you come on real quick

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Speaker 2: and we can talk about this photograph because there's no

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Speaker 2: way Daniel is going to embrace it as much as

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Speaker 2: I have. Am I not? Am? I? Am?

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Speaker 3: I right?

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Speaker 2: That he looks incredible?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. Uh, it's art and motion. I think

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Speaker 3: you know that that picture. It's just a great reminder

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Speaker 3: of how long I mean we've talked about Daniel playing

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Speaker 3: in high school and how good he was, and you

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Speaker 3: know how how like it was such a big like

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Speaker 3: our team was actually like good, right, like we made

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Speaker 3: it to a really good final say. Yeah, I will say,

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Speaker 3: just away from the sort of a Donnis like picture

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Speaker 3: of Daniel playing soccer on the pitch from the my

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Speaker 3: beef with this montage that the school used was out

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Speaker 3: of what seemed like thirty to forty pictures in a montage.

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Speaker 3: I didn't see you, John or myself in any It.

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Speaker 2: Couldn't seem to dig up a single picture of Sean

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Speaker 2: or John. Wow, they had the entire class. I mean

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Speaker 2: it's only fifty two kids, right, So they show forty

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Speaker 2: pictures and you're like, wow, I was really left out.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's the curator's I you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can't argue with that. It's Look, this is the

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Speaker 1: most mortifying segment of our podcast so far. And I'm

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Speaker 1: just wondering if if and I'm not saying I was,

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Speaker 1: but if at age seventeen I was with a soccer

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Speaker 1: ball art in motion, then now it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: garage sale to Tritus in motion, because now I'm forty

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Speaker 1: nine years old and it's really really you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not pretty. It's not pretty. It's a fair store painting

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Speaker 1: in motion these days. Yeah, basically, it basically is it

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Speaker 1: is anyway, I appreciate that, you know, pick me up

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Speaker 1: that you guys just gave me, And maybe.

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Speaker 2: We'll come back here after the break and talk about England. Yeah, great,

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Speaker 2: all right, we'll go back.

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Speaker 1: All right, So we're back on the away end and

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Speaker 1: John is going to tell us and me about the

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Speaker 1: Three Lions, the English national team, So let's go.

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Speaker 2: So, Daniel, I think it's important to remember that England

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Speaker 2: is about one third of a small island. You know,

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Speaker 2: we lose track of that sometimes because it's such an

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Speaker 2: important nation in global history and has muscled its way

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Speaker 2: into so many conversations and had an empire that stretched

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Speaker 2: around the world or whatever. But it is also the

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Speaker 2: home of football. It is where football came to be,

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Speaker 2: and I think talking about the English national team, we

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Speaker 2: need to go back to the beginning of this silly

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Speaker 2: little sport that we love, because, as the English are

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Speaker 2: always happy to explain, it did get its start in England,

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Speaker 2: and like, sometimes I wonder why football exists at all,

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Speaker 2: like why it came to exist, like why there are

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Speaker 2: eleven players instead of thirty, and why the off sides

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Speaker 2: rule that baffls shan exists and all that stuff, like

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Speaker 2: why have there been two hundred and forty seven Merseyside

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Speaker 2: Darby's instead of eighty six or six hundred and seventeen.

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Speaker 2: We've been playing games with balls for like thousands of years, right, So, like,

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Speaker 2: why did the current sport we know as football come

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Speaker 2: to be? Where and when it did? And I think

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Speaker 2: the answer is, at least in part coal coal, Daniel,

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Speaker 2: coal like the carbon fuel, the fuel. Yes, the fuel,

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Speaker 2: the fuel, because that's what fueled the Industrial Revolution. And

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Speaker 2: it was about a generation after the start of the

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Speaker 2: Industrial Revolution that we start to see football happening. Now.

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Speaker 2: The Industrial Revolution happened in England for a bunch of reasons,

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Speaker 2: but one is that there was coal pretty close to

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Speaker 2: the ground, which made it relatively easy to mine. And

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Speaker 2: then there were coal powered steam engines that were used

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Speaker 2: to get water out of those mines, so you could

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Speaker 2: mine more coal more effectively, and the steam engines got

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Speaker 2: more effective and et cetera, until eventually we had lots

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Speaker 2: of people moving to cities and blueberries in January and

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Speaker 2: all the stuff that we have now as a result

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Speaker 2: of the Industrial Revolution. We see a generation later, people

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Speaker 2: start to stand the rules of football, people start to

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Speaker 2: play football as at least vaguely as we would recognize

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Speaker 2: it today. And I really think that farmers were never

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Speaker 2: going to invent that game. They were never going to

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Speaker 2: be able to build out the structure and the rule

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Speaker 2: books and everything else to standardize the game the way

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Speaker 2: like work hours and so much else was standardized during

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Speaker 2: the Industrial Revolution. But factory workers could do that standardization.

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Speaker 2: And so I think that's part of why we see

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Speaker 2: football emerge where and when we do, not because England

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Speaker 2: is special, but because of coal.

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Speaker 1: I think that's really fascinating. And you know, there's lots

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Speaker 1: that's been written about how the Industrial Revolution transformed like everything,

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Speaker 1: and even like the invention of time and the mention

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Speaker 1: of of I mean not time, because youple sort of

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Speaker 1: knew the morning, the afternoon, the evening the next day,

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Speaker 1: the minutes, minutes, minutes became a big deal. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: that changes every thing, you know, and sort of settling

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Speaker 1: at ninety minutes for a game, you know, settling all

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Speaker 1: these things. It's like it is sort of this kind

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Speaker 1: of imposing order on a kind of play that maybe

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Speaker 1: in a previous incarnation of human society is like a

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Speaker 1: rural you know, agrarian society just doesn't make much sense.

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like Agraarian people play baseball, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or they played or they played versions of football

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Speaker 2: that didn't have all the same rules across all the

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Speaker 2: same places, right, So you don't see the emergence of

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Speaker 2: like international football. Interestingly, you don't see the emergence of

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Speaker 2: international football till like forty or fifty years after you

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Speaker 2: first see standardization of football because like it took a

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Speaker 2: while to spread. The first international soccer game was actually

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Speaker 2: played between England and Scotland. Now, I know some people

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Speaker 2: might argue that is not in fact an international soccer

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Speaker 2: game because those are not separate sovereign nations. But I

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Speaker 2: am not one of those people because I am deeply

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Speaker 2: afraid of the wrath of Scottish people. So I'm going

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Speaker 2: to I'm going to say that was the first international

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Speaker 2: game of football. Can I just interrupt?

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Speaker 1: There one thing that I think you made me think of,

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Speaker 1: like how many of the current teams in England and

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Speaker 1: how many the teams I'm thinking of, like in around

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Speaker 1: the world really started out as kind of like of

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Speaker 1: workers that were like especially teams a lot of affiliated

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Speaker 1: with like with actual factors. I mean, the gunners, the Arsenal.

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Speaker 1: The team that I support was a was an armory basically, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then were workers from that factory. And that's the

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Speaker 1: case in you know, in teams in as far as

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Speaker 1: you know, Peru and Uruguay and and you know, all

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Speaker 1: over the world. Like all these teams are are originally

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Speaker 1: sort of come out of workplaces.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think about the team that I think has

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Speaker 2: been playing since the nineteenth century called met Police in England,

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Speaker 2: which no longer comprises actual police officers, but is still

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Speaker 2: called met Police. They play like down in the six

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Speaker 2: or seventh division. But there's all kinds of teams like

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Speaker 2: that that merged from workplaces or factories or kinds of factories,

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Speaker 2: right like, and a lot of times these these teams

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Speaker 2: still identify with their their local industries or with their

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Speaker 2: you know, Grimsby town and fish for instance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, Like in Peru and Lima, there's a costad

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Speaker 1: you know, which is the beer company and you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, I mean I don't know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: like who sponsors them also, but like there is sort

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Speaker 1: of an identification with these you know, their their sort

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Speaker 1: of industrial roots.

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Speaker 2: I remember that Jersey do Deck, the Great Liverpool goalkeeper

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Speaker 2: got his start playing for his Polish mines team, like

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Speaker 2: he was a minor in Poland. I mean both a

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Speaker 2: child and a actual person who worked in mines at

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Speaker 2: the same time, of course, And he was a minor

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Speaker 2: in Poland and also the goalkeeper on the local mines

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Speaker 2: football team and then eventually got discovered by Polish professional

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Speaker 2: team and then made his way to Liverpool and saved

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Speaker 2: two penalties against AC Milanda win US the Champions League

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Speaker 2: back in two thousand and five. So yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: that's still relatively common. Yeah. So England is the home

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Speaker 2: of football. They make a big deal out of that.

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Speaker 2: They've also won the World Cup. They won it once

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Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty six. That team is still lauded in

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Speaker 2: English soccer songs and every time one of them dies

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Speaker 2: it's like a national holiday. It's a huge deal that

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six football team. And look, only eight nations

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Speaker 2: have ever won the World Cup. Right, So obviously England

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Speaker 2: is a very successful footballing nation, especially given its size.

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Speaker 2: It's a relatively small country both geographically and doesn't have

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Speaker 2: that many people, you know, And yet I think that

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Speaker 2: you could argue that England has underachieved on the international stage.

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Speaker 2: They've They've never won a tournament other than the nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty six World Cup, they made it to the finals

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Speaker 2: of a major tournament. They made it to the finals

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Speaker 2: of the European Tournament in both twenty twenty and twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four, but lost both those finals. They finished fourth

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Speaker 2: I think in twenty fourteen was it, and then bombed

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Speaker 2: out or twenty eighteen and then bombed out in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two in the quarterfinals. So they have struggled, even

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Speaker 2: though I think right now they have a golden age.

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Speaker 2: I mean since that twenty twenty tournament, they've really had

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Speaker 2: a golden age of players. Like the current England squad

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Speaker 2: is so good that the starting midfielder, the full back,

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Speaker 2: the starting fullback for probably the best club team in

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Speaker 2: the world. As much as it pains me to admit it,

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Speaker 2: Real Madrid, their starting fullback Trent Alexander Arnold, isn't even

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Speaker 2: on the team for England. He can't even make the bench.

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Speaker 2: Now we can debate why that is, but it speaks

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Speaker 2: to the depth that England have as a national football team.

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Speaker 2: They have arguably the best striker in the world, at

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Speaker 2: least this year in Harry Kane. They have a midfield

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Speaker 2: that includes Declan Rice, who I know is near and

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Speaker 2: dear to your heart and who is a great player.

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Speaker 2: They have amazing defensive players. They have a goalie with

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Speaker 2: exceptionally short arms who nonetheless manages to save the vast

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Speaker 2: majority of shots that come his way in Jordan Pickford.

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Speaker 2: So they've got the players. They have the players to

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Speaker 2: win the World Cup. What I question is whether they

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Speaker 2: have the ability to win the World Cup. And I

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Speaker 2: don't mean like on the pitch, I mean off the pitch,

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Speaker 2: whether they have the psychological ability, whether they have the coaching,

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Speaker 2: whether they have whether they actually can do it. Like

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Speaker 2: this Golden Generation, to borrow a phrase from the English,

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Speaker 2: has one fuck all right, And I mean I look

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Speaker 2: at their bracket this year, like, at least according to

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Speaker 2: my bracket, they're probably going to face Germany or Brazil

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Speaker 2: in the quarterfinals and that's going to be pretty challenging.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's that great Gary Lineker quote. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you've ever heard this. This is one of

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Speaker 2: my favorite football quotes of all time. Football is a

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Speaker 2: simple game. Twenty two men chase a ball around for

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Speaker 2: ninety minutes and at the end, the Germans always win,

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Speaker 2: and I fear that will be the case this year

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Speaker 2: for England. I fear that they may go out in

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Speaker 2: the round, in the quarterfinal round to Germany or Brazil,

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Speaker 2: because I think that's a tough Those are tough matchups

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Speaker 2: for them, and I just I know that every footballing

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Speaker 2: nation like is under tremendous amounts of pressure. Like I

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Speaker 2: can't even imagine the amount of pressure that these kids

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Speaker 2: are under. We're talking about people who are mostly in

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Speaker 2: their twenties, often in their early twenties, you know, holding

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Speaker 2: together a nation. It's it's an insane amount of pressure.

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Speaker 2: But there's something about the English press and something about

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Speaker 2: the kind of international attention that that English football gets

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Speaker 2: that I just think is makes that pressure even worse.

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Speaker 2: You know, the only thing I can compare it to

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Speaker 2: is probably Brazil. I think the pressure in Brazil is

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Speaker 2: unbelievably difficult to deal with. But I just I wonder,

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Speaker 2: with that amount of pressure, whether this group of players

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Speaker 2: can win a World Cup. I would love to see

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Speaker 2: it personally, but I just I don't know if they can.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. What I remember is that final where

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Speaker 1: Jayden Sancho, Marcus Rashford and Bukayosaka miss penalty kicks, yes Italy.

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Speaker 1: And the you know, the racial abuse they got online,

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Speaker 1: the right the vitriol that they had to experience as

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Speaker 1: very young men. Buka Isaka I think was like seventeen

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Speaker 1: or something, maybe eighteen years old. And so there is

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Speaker 1: also that dark side of English fan culture that you know,

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Speaker 1: is with this kind of you know, racist, nativist ideology

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Speaker 1: that's pretty gross. Uh. But I I gotta say I

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Speaker 1: as much as I just like England's impact in history

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Speaker 1: and its empire and you know, and it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like the kind of smugness, I really like the English

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Speaker 1: team and they have some some fantastic players. They have

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Speaker 1: some really likable characters. And it's not just because I'm

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Speaker 1: an Arsenal fan, but I think I think Bayosaka is.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh soccer, is one of the most likable people

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Speaker 2: in all of football.

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Speaker 1: Such a lovely young man. And and Deklan Rice you

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Speaker 1: mentioned is a hard, hard worker, uh and incredibly talented

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Speaker 1: and just has this engine won't stop. And and you know,

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Speaker 1: Pickford is kind of clownish but also just you know,

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Speaker 1: remarkable talent.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I.

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Speaker 1: I you know, we could go back to my hierarchy

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Speaker 1: of loyalties. I had them pretty low, just be for

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Speaker 1: you know, because I obviously I want Latin American teams

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Speaker 1: to win before I want English teams.

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Speaker 2: The English team to win.

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Speaker 1: But if we're down to England versus any other European team,

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Speaker 1: I would be cheering for England because I just know

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Speaker 1: all the players, you know, And I do think that

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Speaker 1: part of the pressure comes from the fact that their

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Speaker 1: league is the most watched league in the world, you know,

434
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: and is the most powerful and richest league in the world,

435
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 1: and we all follow it.

436
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's definitely true. But that's also

437
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 2: part of the reason why English players are so good

438
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 2: right now is because they you know, have well funded academies,

439
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 2: because they have lots of opportunities to you know, have

440
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 2: players playing alongside world class international talent. You don't have

441
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 2: that in MLS or you do, but the world class

442
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 2: international talent is in their forties. Yeah.

443
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: It's it's like James, you know, coming on to the

444
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: last twenty minutes at age thirty two, trying to you know,

445
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: get in fitness shape good for the World Cup. You know,

446
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: it's not the same, right, right, It's not the same.

447
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: So I think that that's part of why England are

448
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: so good right now. I think they have a very

449
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: bright future. They have a lot of really good young players.

450
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: But you know, as much as I am inclined to

451
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: dislike Harry Kane because he's a Tottenham player, even though

452
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: he now plays in Germany and he's famously a bit

453
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: of a mouth breather both literally and figuratively, I know

454
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: how much it would mean to him to win a

455
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: World Cup. I know how much it would mean to

456
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: Jordan Pickford, and like, of course it means it would

457
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: mean everything to every one of those players. But to

458
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: your point, I know the England players. I feel I've

459
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: seen them in interviews. They speak the language that I speak,

460
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: and so inevitably I feel connected to them. I want

461
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: to say one more thing before we take a break,

462
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: that nobody can win until they win, right, there's always

463
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 1: you know, Spain had never won, and then they won,

464
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: and now and then you know, France had never won,

465
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: and then they won, and then they want another, you know,

466
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: and it's like you know, I think now in terms

467
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: of my club team, Arsenal, they haven't won in twenty

468
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: two years, and when they do it, I feel like

469
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: the something breaks and then the mentality changes and then

470
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: you can win. And you know, there's so much talent

471
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: on the English team. I feel like, one of these

472
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: days they're going to win. And when they do, then

473
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: of this all this losing and all this coming up

474
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: short and all this fuck all that you've mentioned kind

475
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: of fades away and you're like, oh, true, remember that

476
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: back then when we thought we couldn't win, we actually can.

477
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 2: You know, right, That's very true. And one of the

478
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: things that people say about England to your point about

479
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: the penalty shootout with SOCCA and Rashford, is that they

480
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 2: are choke artists somehow, But actually they've won one of

481
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 2: their four penalty shootouts in the World Cups and four

482
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 2: of their eleven penalty shootouts and tournaments overall. Like, that's

483
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: just not a big enough sample size to have any data. Really.

484
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 2: You know, if one penalty kick had gone differently in

485
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: one of those penalty shootouts, they would have won half

486
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 2: of their penalty shootouts and then nobody would have that narrative.

487
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 2: So I agree with you. I think the narrative that

488
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: you can't win is only true until you Win. I remember.

489
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: Not to make this about me, but I remember I

490
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 2: was a bowler. I got dumped in college. I mean

491
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: I got dumped repeatedly, but I got dumped once in college, devastatingly.

492
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: And I took up bowling after that. I went and

493
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 2: bowled every day by myself or with my friend Levin,

494
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: and I could never break two hundred until I did

495
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: break two hundred, and then it was easy to break

496
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 2: two hundred. Yeah.

497
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. Once you do it, you

498
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 1: can't not do it. Similarly, here in Bodda, I you

499
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: know that there's this hill, this mountain called Bothios is

500
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: basically like the top of the mountain, and I wanted

501
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: to bike to the top because I see like old

502
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: guys biking to the top.

503
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 2: And I couldn't do it.

504
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: And then I just kept at it, and then I

505
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: did it, and now I.

506
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: Can do it. You know, it just happened. May it

507
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: happen for Arsenal? I hope?

508
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: So all right, let's take a quick break and I'll

509
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: be back with a story and some mail. We're right, okay,

510
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: So we're back on the away end. John, I have

511
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: a story for you, and this one starts when my

512
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: first book was published in two thousand and five, a

513
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: story collection called.

514
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: War by Candlelight. Great book, Thank you.

515
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to have it translated and publishing

516
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: lots of different places, including Peru, where I'm from. And

517
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: so for this very brief moment, I was kind of

518
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: well known in Lima, and as a consequence, I got

519
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: invited to lots of places to do readings and whatnot.

520
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: In the course of these readings, I met a guy

521
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: named Carlos who had this interesting job. He was kind

522
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: of like a liaison between inmates in proven prisons and

523
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: the state to try to help them advocate for.

524
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: What they needed.

525
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: He built and kind of organized and funded or you know,

526
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: fundraised to create lots of workshops where they teach them,

527
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: you know, skills and whatnot. Anyway, so for his job,

528
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: he traveled all over the country and went to all

529
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: the different prisons, and as a result, he knew a

530
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: lot of people that I.

531
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: Was interested in getting to know.

532
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: And the reason is that my book had a lot

533
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: to do with politics, and specifically with the armed conflict

534
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: in Peru in the nineteen eighties, and he thought, and

535
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,239
Speaker 1: I agreed, that it would be a good idea to

536
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: meet some of the protagonists of that conflict, many of

537
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: whom were in prison, and like maybe just fact check

538
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: my stories with them or sort of get their testimonies.

539
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: And since I was working on a novel that was

540
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: kind of also based on that period, I thought this

541
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: was just a fantastic idea. Now I went to one

542
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: of the prisons, and I went to another one, and

543
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: I just became kind of fascinated by this place and

544
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: obsessed with the different correctional institutions of Peru, mostly because

545
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: they were just like this world apart from everything, and

546
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: one thing you should know, improven prisons like the police,

547
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: they basically can control who gets in and gets out,

548
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: but they don't really control anything else that goes on

549
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: in the prison. And one of the prisons I visited, Lurigancho,

550
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: like the police actually couldn't go into the blocks themselves,

551
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: like they weren't allowed by the inmates. So this is

552
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: kind of like really alternate universe, and I was totally

553
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: fascinated by it. I met with lots of former guerrillas,

554
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: some of whom had known my uncle Haviert, who disappeared

555
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine, and that was a loss that

556
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: was like really formative for me and in some ways

557
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: like shaped my kind of adolescent brain and identity and

558
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: met me want to be a writer and a journalist.

559
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: I met people who had suffered tremendous losses and had

560
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: learned to appreciate them for the lessons they'd learn. I

561
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: met people who'd done some really awful things and worked

562
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: their whole lives to try to understand why. And so

563
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: basically every chance I got, I'd go to either to

564
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: one of two prisons, either Lurigancho, which is the largest

565
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: prison in Peru, which really looked like something out of

566
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: Dante when I first started visiting, or another nearby institution,

567
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: which by comparison, was almost provincial and relaxed, a place

568
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: called Casteo Castro. And in Costal Costro, I met another guy,

569
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: a young man named Manchitas. I don't actually know his

570
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: real name, a Manchez a kind of stain. And he

571
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: earned his nickname because he had this kind of light brown,

572
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: wavy hair, but he had a little wisp of gray

573
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: at the top, almost like like Leo Troussard, you know,

574
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: like just like and he'd had that since he was

575
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: a boy, so everyone called him Manchita's. He was from

576
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,239
Speaker 1: the jungle. He was about my age, and what I

577
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: liked about him was he was so zen about the

578
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: prison sentence he was serving, which, if I recall correctly,

579
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: he was just serving because he'd driven a truck that

580
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: you know, it had cocaine in it and it wasn't

581
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: like a big time gangster or anything. He was just

582
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: kind of like, well, that was bad. And we talked

583
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: a lot about soccer. We talked about local soccer, We

584
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: talked about international football, the national team. You know, which

585
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: clubs we liked, who played well, who did in tactics.

586
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: And it was Anchitas who decided, at this point i'd

587
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: become kind of a fixture at Costa Castro, or at

588
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: least like a semi regular visitor, that he wanted to

589
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: see me play. So he spoke to the boss of

590
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: the block, the Taita, and then one day on one

591
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: of these visits, he informed me that the following week

592
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: there was going to be a game in my honor

593
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: and that I should come ready to play. It was

594
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: going to be an inter block match, so it was

595
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: like his block versus another block, and the Narcos block,

596
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: which was Manchita's block would be hosting the terrorists lost

597
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: Rucos he called them, which is mostly like members of

598
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: Shining Path, and I would be playing with the narcos.

599
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: So a couple things here, John, Yes, Costell Costro was

600
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: pretty chill compared to Rrigancho, And yes, I'd been visiting

601
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: this place by that point for more than a year.

602
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: And yes, lats OFO knew me and were pretty nice

603
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: to me. But you're wondering was I intimidated to play there?

604
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: And the answer is absolutely, I was intimidated to play there.

605
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: This is not like trying out for like the Indian

606
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: Springs High school soccer tea. Don you know me, I'm

607
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: not a big guy. I'm not strong. I have heard

608
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: about gyms and I know they exist, but I don't

609
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: frequent them. And so the whole thing seemed like a

610
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: level up from what I was able to do. But

611
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: such as it is, you gotta go, you gotta play.

612
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: And the day of the game, I went nervous, and

613
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: all the whole block was out to watch. They'd set

614
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: up benches along the side, and I remember it was

615
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 1: super hot, like it was one of those like summer

616
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: days in them. It's just blazing hot. There's it's all.

617
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: There's no trees, there's no shade, there's no nothing. And

618
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,439
Speaker 1: the field was a cement prison yard in the Narcos block,

619
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: and it was not strictly speaking a rectangle. It was

620
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: kind of like one sideline was the wall of the

621
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: of the block, and it was interrupted at these regular

622
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: intervals by these kind of beams that jutted out into

623
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: the field of play, so that when you're running downfield

624
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: you had to be really careful, like weaving around them

625
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: so you didn't run into them. And then the end

626
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: lines right, so like one end of the pitch, if

627
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: you were to take the length from corner flag to

628
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: corner flag, although there were no corner flags, obviously was

629
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: about two thirds of length of the other end. So

630
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: it kind of like went down into a cone, right, trapezoidal, trapezoidal, yes, yes,

631
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: thank you for that geometry. Now, I know what you're thinking,

632
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 1: and you, like me, probably would assume that most goals

633
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,439
Speaker 1: would be scored on the wider end, yeah, because there'd

634
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: be space, And in fact that was actually totally wrong.

635
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: We started playing and the narrow end of the pitch

636
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: was this like frantic like pinball machine of like legs

637
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: and knees such that like every time the ball went

638
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: down there, one way or another, it seemed to end

639
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 1: up in the back of the net. Again, there's an

640
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 1: asterisk on the word net because the net, the goal itself,

641
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: was just like three lines drawn like painted onto the

642
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 1: back of the prison wall.

643
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 2: Right.

644
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 1: So, anyway, first half, blazing hot. We the Narcos are

645
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: playing really well and we're winning, scoring a bunch of

646
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: really sloppy, weird you know goal on the narrow end

647
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: of the pitch.

648
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: I didn't.

649
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: I don't remember really doing much with the ball except

650
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: like trying to get rid of it as soon as

651
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: it came to me because I really wanted to not

652
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: get tackled and not have someone break my legs. I

653
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: remember at halftime I was talking to Machita's and he

654
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: introduced my teammates to me, and I don't remember them all,

655
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: but I recalled that one of the defenders looked kind

656
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 1: of like a soldier. He was like tall and strong,

657
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: he was a defender, he had a buzz cut, and

658
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: it turns out that he had been a soldier and

659
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 1: he told me that he'd been a helicopter pilot in

660
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: the Proven Army. And then started using his flights over

661
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: the jungle to move cocaine. And then now he found

662
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: himself at Costa Costello playing a game of soccer with

663
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: me as his teammate, and he told me all this

664
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: without really smiling. We switched sides at the half and

665
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 1: we started survived.

666
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: The real onslaught.

667
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: They played with a lot of passion, the tarucos. And

668
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: this is kind of when I realized that I was

669
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: the guest of honor. And so there was this like

670
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: war happening around me. This is really violent and really

671
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: rough game. And then I had this little force field

672
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: of privilege protecting me. So there was like nobody, you know,

673
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: people were pulling out of tackles. You know, they were

674
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: like giving me an extra you know, like like when

675
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: you were playing with a child and you don't want

676
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: to like, you know, go intrevate it on them. So

677
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: this was like at the same time like very welcome

678
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: because I didn't really want to get hurt and also

679
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: like a little bit condescending, you know, like like come on,

680
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 1: you know, And so I had this kind of like

681
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: real push pull between like self preservation and like you know,

682
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: kind of like this the little tiny inklings of macho

683
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: nes of like, come on, I can handle this. It's

684
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: not clear that I actually could have handled it. But anyway,

685
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: the game's winding down and we're winning comfortably, and despite

686
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: the terrorist's best efforts, they can't seem to get close

687
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: to us. And I noticed this thing. The ref, who

688
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: was also an inmate, is about to blow his whistle

689
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: because it was full time, right, and Manchita's and the

690
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: tight that like like.

691
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: Ran over him. We're like no, no, no, no, no, no no.

692
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: And at that point I realized that the game was

693
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: not going to be over until I scored. Oh, of course,

694
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: because it was in your honor, it was in my honor.

695
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: And of course, at the moment that I realized this,

696
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: I proceeded to miss one sitter after another, you know,

697
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 1: like tap ins that I just somehow put wide of

698
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: the painted bar. You know, it was so mortifying because

699
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: at this point there's two squads of players looking at me,

700
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: the terrorists and the narcos, and they're all like, dude,

701
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: come on.

702
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: You know.

703
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: I want to say in my defense that it was

704
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: very hot. I was very tired, and I think the

705
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: stress and anxiety of playing in that environment which is

706
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: not my normal playing environment was very much sort of

707
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: like acting.

708
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 2: On my nerves.

709
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: Anyway, When I finally finally scored, the ref looked over

710
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: to Manchita's, Manchita's nodded, and then the whistle blew. This

711
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: is the part I remember, because I kind of remember

712
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: like collapsing on the floor and looking straight up at

713
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: the sky and just being like dead. At some point

714
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: I closed my eyes. When I opened them, Mantitas was

715
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: pulling me up and he said this thing to me

716
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: that really sort of stuck with me, and he said,

717
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: you got to go tell a terrorist they played a

718
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 1: good game. They really hate to lose.

719
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: And what a two sentence couplet that is.

720
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, because if you understand anything about Proven politics,

721
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: like they'd lost it all. Yeah, you know, they'd lost

722
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: this you know, stupid maniacal homicidal war that had started.

723
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: They'd lost whatever shred of public support they might have

724
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: had in any sort of reaches of the Proven territory.

725
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: They had lost their leaders who were all imprisoned, and

726
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: you know, these guys had lost their lives because they

727
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: were going to be in prison for the next you know,

728
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty years. And I went over and tricked

729
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: all their hands in the same way that you know,

730
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: the same ritual that kids all over the world enact

731
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: after each game, where they're like good game, or if

732
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: you know it's now kids go g g gg gg. Yeah,

733
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: they didn't even say the whole thing. So I did

734
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: my version of gg g g gg with the with

735
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: the members of the Shining Path who happened to be

736
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: good at soccer, and and that was my one of

737
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: the most memorable games I've ever played, and probably one

738
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: of the worst games I've ever played also, But just

739
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: the end, I want to say, because Mantita's was such

740
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: a kind young man. He's, like I said, he's about

741
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: our age. Now he's out of prison, he's living back

742
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: in his hometown. He's a father and a husband, and

743
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 1: last I heard he was doing really great. And so yeah,

744
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: that's my that's my story, man.

745
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: What a story. I mean. I am often reminded that

746
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: you have lived a thousand lives, but that story really

747
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 2: brings it home for me. Uh, that is an absolute

748
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 2: banger of a tale. My friend. You should uh, you

749
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 2: should start every dinner party with that one before we

750
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,919
Speaker 2: serve the turkey. Can tell you about the time.

751
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I spent a lot of years going

752
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: to the prisons in Peru, and I learned so much

753
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: there and learned from the people there, and I am

754
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: super grateful that I had that experience. Another time, I'll

755
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: tell you about the time I slept a night in Luiganto.

756
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 2: I'll tell you that's there another day. Oh, that sounds

757
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 2: like a good one too. It's also a really interesting

758
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: exploration as a story of how power works. That the

759
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 2: state has the power to imprison people but not the

760
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 2: power to define necessarily how they are in prison. That

761
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: the referee has the whistle, but not necessarily the power

762
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 2: to decide when and how the game ends. It's a

763
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 2: really interesting exploration of who really has the power in

764
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 2: different situations.

765
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: Well, you know, Ludigunchul. Every Ludigancho is like I said,

766
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 1: it's the other prison, it's the crazier one. And Ryguncho's

767
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: BA basically set up is like a map of criminal

768
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: life in Lima. So every block belongs to a district

769
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: of the city, except the two blocks for international and

770
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 1: national drug trafficking. Because those guys they're either from the jungle,

771
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: so they don't have any relationship to Lima. Really or

772
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: they're you know, Polish, Israeli, Nigerian, Colombian, Mexican, you know, Spanish, Italian, whatever,

773
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 1: and they don't could care less what's happening in Lima.

774
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: They're like, you know, it's irrelevant to them. And those

775
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: two are the blocks that have the most money. And

776
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: so what they do is that they find players who

777
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: are good from other blocks and they bring them to

778
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: their blocks, to Block seven and Block nine, so that

779
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: they can play for their team. And I literally had

780
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: a guy tell me, he's like, no, no, we're like

781
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: the real Madrid and Barcelona of this prison. When it

782
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: comes to sameon, we're the semi pro team. Yeah, because

783
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: we can we have you know, the transfer market after

784
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: each tournament is like, oh, who played well on Block eighteen,

785
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: come live with us, and they give them like a

786
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: cell and a bed and food and then that player.

787
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 2: Plays for them. Wow. It was crazy, Wow, totally crazy

788
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 2: as wild. Right, let's get to some of our mail,

789
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 2: which will feel a little disappointing after that incredible story,

790
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: but we want to begin with this email from John,

791
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 2: who writes, Dear John and Daniel, I've only gotten int

792
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 2: a Premier League fandom in the last couple of years,

793
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 2: and I'm wondering how you have handled this situation. I'm

794
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: a Chelsea fan and in the first leg of our

795
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: Champions League round with PSG, we lost five to two.

796
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 2: Then we came home and lost one nail to Newcastle.

797
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 2: And I am listening currently to the second leg of

798
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 2: the Champions League on my phone and PSG just scored

799
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 2: a second goal in the first fourteen minutes. Should I

800
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: smash my phone, tear off the Chelsea jersey my son

801
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: got me for Christmas and rip it to shreds, swear loudly,

802
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: or all of the above. Best John in an arbor, John,

803
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 2: I recommend that you take the Daniel Aracone approach to

804
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: this issue, which is that you somehow enjoy the joy

805
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: of soccer without not feeling too much of the pain

806
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 2: of soccer.

807
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: I have a chat with some friends. They're parents of

808
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: my son's friends in New York, and we're all Arsenal fans.

809
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: And there's one, you know, one guy' zen like me,

810
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 1: and one guy is like always about to blows top,

811
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 1: you know, like third minute of the game and he's like,

812
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:15,959
Speaker 1: why are we not scoring yet?

813
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 2: You know?

814
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: I love them both. They're great guys, Joe and I

815
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: bey and they I always worry about Joe's heart, you know. Yeah,

816
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: so I think the option there could be an option E.

817
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: So yeah, the fifth option, which is like go to therapy.

818
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: I have just I decided a few years ago, and

819
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: this has worked surprisingly well for me to just be

820
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 2: less invested in losing than I am in winning, to

821
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: just enjoy winning more than I don't enjoy losing. Instead

822
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 2: of hating losing, I love winning. And I have found

823
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 2: this to be not just helpful for my football fandom,

824
00:44:58,239 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 2: but kind of helpful in real life.

825
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I did realize at a certain point, if

826
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: Arsenal lost, like on a Saturday morning like my it

827
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: would take me to like noon or like two in

828
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: the afternoon to recover. And that wasn't really fair to

829
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: my kids and my wife, you know, my life in general.

830
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 1: So John in ann Arbor, good luck surviving the rest

831
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: of Chelsea's season, and I'm sure you're gonna be okay.

832
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: I got another question for you, this one I think

833
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: you'll like, Dear John, Daniel and Sean. I'm interested if

834
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: you think the Champions League's success of Bodo Glimpt might

835
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: have implications for the Norwegian World Cup run.

836
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: Huh wow. So Bodo Glimped is this relatively small team

837
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 2: from Norway that unfortunately just got kicked out of the

838
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: Champions League. They went into their second game with the

839
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 2: three zero lead and lost five nil, and so on

840
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: aggregator was five to three and they got knocked out

841
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: of the Champions League. But they still had a great run.

842
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 2: And I think a number of the Norwegian players play

843
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: at Boto Glimpt and I've always felt like if you

844
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 2: have that club team chemistry and you can bring it

845
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 2: to the national team, it helps, especially if you have

846
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 2: Erling Holland as your new striker. Yeah. Yeah, I think.

847
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: The Boto glim story was one that I think that

848
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,959
Speaker 1: if you love sport in its purest form, you had

849
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: to support them, You had to be happy for them

850
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 1: because the very small club. It's in a very small town.

851
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: I think the stadium is like ten thousand people.

852
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 2: You know.

853
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: They play above the Arctic Circle, with my understanding, and

854
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: they were these kind of like incongruously bright yellow jerseys

855
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: in a place where you know, it's like winter for

856
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: eight months of the year.

857
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 2: There is no color.

858
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: They play on a plastic pitch and they played some

859
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: really great counterteching football. I think they're always going to

860
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: do well. I mean, I think it does depend a

861
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: little bit on the form of Earling Holland and the

862
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: fitness of Martinodoguard.

863
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, who has been in and.

864
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: Out of the Arsenal side this season because he keeps

865
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: you injuring his shoulder in some like freak accidents, and

866
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: early Hollins kind of dropped off a little bit. But

867
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's just because Pep just decided

868
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: he wants to play that a striker.

869
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 2: Now or something. But we'll see.

870
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 1: I'm excited to see what Norway does.

871
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 2: Yah me too. I think they're gonna at least make

872
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 2: it to the UH knockouts, and then anything is possible.

873
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: We also have an email from Tanell in Estonia. I

874
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: apologize if I'm mispronouncing your name, who writes High Grade podcast.

875
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 2: Now that you have educated lots of people about the

876
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 2: off side rule, feel free to explain to us that

877
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 2: it doesn't always apply. Because the offside rule does not

878
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: apply in a throw in situation or in the team's

879
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 2: own half. This is very true and very important for Sean.

880
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: So Sean, when there is an off side. It's not

881
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 2: off sides if it's in the team's half, if it's

882
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 2: in the defending half, and it's not off sides if

883
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 2: it's on a throw. And in fact, just recently AFC

884
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: Wimbledon scored off a throw in off an offside throw

885
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 2: what would have been an off side throw in, and

886
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 2: it was the throw of my life. My guy Marcus

887
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: Brown scored one of the guys I helped pay for.

888
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 2: Wonderful you got all that done.

889
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just you know, I'm further confused. But

890
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 3: but what what Tanell is saying makes sense to me.

891
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 2: So all right, maybe we need to have tell explained

892
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: the offside role to you.

893
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got I got in a bit of a

894
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: of a fight, or rather I was I was yelled

895
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: at by a parent at west Side Soccer when I

896
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: was the kind of ref because I didn't call a

897
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: player offside because he started his run in his own half.

898
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: And then uh, and so this parent is berating me,

899
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to explain to him that the offside rule,

900
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: what the offside rule is, and he could didn't believe me,

901
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: and it was it was unpleasant for everybody. There's also

902
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: these great moments. I don't know if you've seen this, John,

903
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: where like there's this great clip of Luis Suarez like uh,

904
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: signaling to the ref for a handball when it's the

905
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: goalie the oppos and goalies touching the ball. Or there

906
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: was one where Arsenal scored a goal because there was

907
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: a throw in to a player who was in what

908
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: would be an offside position and they went on to score,

909
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: and because the team which was.

910
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 2: Just kind of had a.

911
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: Collective defending brain freeze, just stopped the play because they

912
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: were off side, and they all raised their hand for

913
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: off sides and you're like, dude, this is a throw in.

914
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: What a you're doing? And then we basically walked it in.

915
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened to a Wimbledon.

916
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sean, I mentioned this because it's not just you

917
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: who doesn't know the rules. Sometimes the players themselves don't

918
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: know the rules in the heat of the moment.

919
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: So don't feel bad, makes.

920
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 3: Me feel makes me feel a little better.

921
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: Well, thanks to everybody for writing us. We love hearing

922
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 2: from you away ndpod at gmail dot com. Thanks as

923
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 2: always to Daniel and Sean, and also to our editor

924
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 2: Kurt for being here with us. We love making this

925
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 2: podcast for you and hope you enjoy it half as

926
00:49:58,320 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: much as we like making it.

927
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we'll see you next week, guys. Thanks mm hmm