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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to another new episode of You

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Speaker 1: Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Cat and I am

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Speaker 1: the host. If you are new or newer and and

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Speaker 1: maybe we haven't met even through the podcast, I want

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Speaker 1: to say hi and introduce myself. If you're like, who

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Speaker 1: is this girl? Why does she have this podcast called

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Speaker 1: You Need Therapy? Well, I am a licensed therapist that

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Speaker 1: lives and works in Nashville, and a couple of years

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Speaker 1: ago I decided that it would be very cool to

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Speaker 1: bring some of the conversations that I find myself having

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Speaker 1: all of the time with clients into the world for

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Speaker 1: anyone and everyone to get a chance to experience. And

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Speaker 1: my hope. While this podcast is not therapy, and it

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Speaker 1: cannot service therapy or replacement for therapy, it may at

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Speaker 1: some point encourage you to dig deeper into the parts

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Speaker 1: of you and or your life that otherwise maybe would

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Speaker 1: have gone ignored or noticed. So happy Monday or whatever

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Speaker 1: day it is that you might be listening to this.

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Speaker 1: I am recording this on a Friday, a very rainy Friday,

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Speaker 1: which I'm not a big fan of rainy days. I

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Speaker 1: know some people love them, I don't know. They kind

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Speaker 1: of bring me down anyway, I thought today it would

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Speaker 1: be a nice day for us to have more of

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Speaker 1: like a little one on one chat, And I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about something that I don't think I have

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Speaker 1: really talked about a lot on here, and that thing

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Speaker 1: is closure. So we're gonna address closure today, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be mostly referring to in relating to romantic

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Speaker 1: relationships and closure through the ending of those. And at

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Speaker 1: same time as I talk, I think you can adjust

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Speaker 1: this to different areas of your life as well, So

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Speaker 1: use the content as you need. And if you need

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Speaker 1: to interject closure with a loss of a friendship or

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Speaker 1: a job or something like that, you can do that.

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Speaker 1: So before we get going, let's lay some ground work

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Speaker 1: around what closure even is. So, in basic terms, closure

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Speaker 1: refers to finding a firm answer about something so that

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Speaker 1: you don't have to live with ambiguity, which just is

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Speaker 1: a fancy word for like this, like unknown. And when

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Speaker 1: you find closure in a relationship, the premise is that

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Speaker 1: then you can accept that the relationship is over or

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Speaker 1: that's what the people are saying, right, So finding closure

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Speaker 1: allows you to figure out why the relationship has ended.

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Speaker 1: You get answered your questions, so then you can in quotes,

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Speaker 1: move on and then you can let go of the

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Speaker 1: lingering emotional issues from your from your past, from that relationship.

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Speaker 1: And and that's the idea around it, I think, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's the general consensus of what we are

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Speaker 1: putting in our minds as we're talking about closure. I

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Speaker 1: need closure, I want to find closure. I need to

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Speaker 1: ask for closure. All that. So we have established here

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Speaker 1: before that humans are storytellers, right. We understand, we view,

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Speaker 1: we conceptualize our world through a series of stories. Now,

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Speaker 1: in a story, there's usually a clear beginning, there's a middle,

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Speaker 1: there's an end, and there are boundaries within storytelling boundaries

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Speaker 1: that help us feel safe, we feel understood, and we

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Speaker 1: are like on this trajectory that just makes sense. And

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Speaker 1: we as human beings just really really really really really

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Speaker 1: love when things make sense. It is a natural and

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Speaker 1: human experience. Who want to understand things. There's nothing wrong

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Speaker 1: with that. And I just need to say that from

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Speaker 1: the get go. I'll probably say a one million times.

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Speaker 1: We want things to make sense, and we want things

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Speaker 1: to make sense through the lens of a story arc

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Speaker 1: because that's what we know and that's what we're familiar with,

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Speaker 1: and that's what we've been taught. And when we are

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Speaker 1: left in the middle of a story without any direction,

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Speaker 1: we feel anxious and awkward. And when we are cut

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Speaker 1: off from a story in any kind of event that

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Speaker 1: feels fast and outside of our previous trajectory, we feel

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Speaker 1: confused and we can become like hyper focused on figuring

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Speaker 1: out like what went awry, because we gotta finish that story.

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Speaker 1: We gotta write that story, we gotta make sense of

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Speaker 1: the story. And the truth is as well we are

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Speaker 1: storytellers at the same time. When we do figure things out,

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Speaker 1: we actually like feel better from like a chemical like

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Speaker 1: brain waves stay point, even if it's for like a second.

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Speaker 1: We do feel better when we figure things out, when

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Speaker 1: we put stories in a neat box, when we have

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Speaker 1: aha moments, when we find the answer to something, we

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Speaker 1: get a little shot of dopamine. And if you guys,

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Speaker 1: this is making me think of I've become a big

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Speaker 1: word old fan. Um. I don't know if any of

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Speaker 1: you guys, I'm sure some of you do the wordle

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Speaker 1: every day. And if you don't know I'm talking about,

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Speaker 1: just type in wordld to Google and you'll get a

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Speaker 1: thing that pops up and it's just a little a

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Speaker 1: word game, and like every morning when I figure out

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Speaker 1: the word, if I figure it out, I get that

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Speaker 1: like rush of like, oh yes, I got it. And

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Speaker 1: then right after that, I'm like, I can't wait till tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of what I'm talking about. That's a

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Speaker 1: perfect experience of in a perfect example of like us

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Speaker 1: getting a shot of dopamine and then what happens. And

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Speaker 1: this is the issue is that just like we get

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Speaker 1: that shot when we do the world, that shot really

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Speaker 1: only keeps it satisfied for a minor period of time,

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Speaker 1: but it feels really good, so we want to do

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Speaker 1: it again. And if the ending isn't something that feels

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Speaker 1: good when we are creating these stories and we're we're

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Speaker 1: trying to find these answers and we're coming up with

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Speaker 1: these like resolutions in our mind and all of that,

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Speaker 1: if the ending isn't something that feels good, then we're

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Speaker 1: gonna end up continuing to ask questions and make up

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Speaker 1: scenarios in like a cyclical way to continue to get

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Speaker 1: that shot. So like we'll make up the story and

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Speaker 1: and maybe it's like something that doesn't feel good to

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Speaker 1: us at the same time, it gives us a shot

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Speaker 1: of dopamine, because figuring something out feels good. But then

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Speaker 1: we have that part of us that's like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel good, So then we do it again, and

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Speaker 1: we do it again, and we do it again. It's

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Speaker 1: easier to see when somebody else is doing it. Or

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Speaker 1: we've had friends, family members, people in our lives that

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Speaker 1: you've watched do that thing where they're like figure out

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Speaker 1: answers to things and they're putting like the ending to

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Speaker 1: that story. But then right after that there comes another

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Speaker 1: question that is almost sometimes like a very similar version

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Speaker 1: of the same question asked in a different way. We'll

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Speaker 1: get to that later of why we do that. So

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Speaker 1: I know that the idea that only you can give

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Speaker 1: yourself closure is kind of like a hot topic in

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Speaker 1: the therapy mental health world, I think any kind of

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Speaker 1: helping world, it's kind of a hot topic. Some people

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Speaker 1: will live, breathe, and want to die on the hill

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Speaker 1: that this idea that only you can give yourself closure

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Speaker 1: is an extremely invalidating and unhelpful piece of generalized advice,

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Speaker 1: and we should retire, delete, and forget this idea that

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Speaker 1: only we should give ourselves closure. And on the other side,

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Speaker 1: there's people that want to live, breathe, and die on

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Speaker 1: the hill that like you are the only one that

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Speaker 1: can give yourself closure. And it becomes a very direct,

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Speaker 1: straightforward piece of advice that we want to just like

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Speaker 1: you know, hand out to anybody who's hurting or in

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Speaker 1: pain or asking those questions. So we have these two extremes.

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Speaker 1: I personally am in the middle of this debate as

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Speaker 1: you if you know me, if you've gotten to know

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Speaker 1: me through this podcast, you probably know at this point

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Speaker 1: that I sit in the gray area of a lot

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Speaker 1: of things. There's some things I definitely don't this one

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Speaker 1: is one of them. I don't think that we can

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Speaker 1: say that in all cases of life, that you and

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Speaker 1: only you should and can give yourself the closure that

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Speaker 1: you need to carry on after an experience of loss.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that that fits their end. I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's appropriate to say that, like we always need

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Speaker 1: to go to these people and ask for closure that

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Speaker 1: might not be healthy, safe, or able to give us

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Speaker 1: what it is that we're looking for now. When we

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Speaker 1: are left in the middle of a story in an

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Speaker 1: unexpected way, when we sit with questions upon questions that

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Speaker 1: lead to other questions and then more questions that can

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Speaker 1: very much like weaken our sense of self and damage

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Speaker 1: our ability to really trust the world and people. When

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Speaker 1: we are left in the middle of the story that

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Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense and we can't make sense of

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Speaker 1: it based on the information that we have in our

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Speaker 1: brain about that scenario, it can really cause us a

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Speaker 1: lot of pain that impacts the way we view ourselves,

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Speaker 1: the way we view relationships, people, the world in general.

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Speaker 1: So closure or really an understanding of what happened can

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Speaker 1: help us put roadblocks up where our imagination can like

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Speaker 1: mistakenly take us, which is where we end up getting

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Speaker 1: that damaged sense of self and in view of the

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Speaker 1: world when our imagination just takes us on all these

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Speaker 1: old rides that are like really has no business going

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Speaker 1: and doing so when we are refuse closure or answers

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Speaker 1: to like seemingly like appropriate questions, like if I end

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Speaker 1: a relationship and it seems like everything's going fine, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what happened? How did your feelings change? Like

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Speaker 1: I thought you loved me? Why did you decide? Seemingly

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Speaker 1: that feels like an appropriate question to ask somebody that

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Speaker 1: you might have been in a very intense, intimate relationship

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Speaker 1: with But when we are refused those answers, what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen is we are going to create attempt after

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Speaker 1: an attempt to understand what happened in order to like

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Speaker 1: understand the past, present, and like the future. Like we're

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Speaker 1: going to continue to do like almost this own like

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Speaker 1: inside of our brain and investigation, although sometimes it turns

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Speaker 1: into like stalking on social media, talking to their friends, calling,

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Speaker 1: doing all these things. It overtakes us and then we

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Speaker 1: lean into these questions versus like what happened, it's what

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Speaker 1: did I do? How could someone I trust to do this?

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Speaker 1: And that's really where this damaged sense of self comes in. So,

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Speaker 1: like I said before, it feels a bit off to

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Speaker 1: say that someone giving us clear cut answers to help

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Speaker 1: us create an accurate story can't, won't, and shouldn't help us.

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Speaker 1: I mean I think that, like I wish that that

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Speaker 1: could be the thing, that we could have clear answers

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Speaker 1: to help us, like, you know, put the story together

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Speaker 1: so we can leave this relationship or experience and go

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Speaker 1: to the next one feeling good, healthy, safe, connected. Like honestly,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about a specific relationship of mine ended a

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Speaker 1: while ago five years ago and when we broke up.

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Speaker 1: Two weeks before we broke up, he basically took me

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Speaker 1: to dinner and told me he wanted to marry me.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking we were going to have this life together.

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Speaker 1: And then two weeks later he sets me down out

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Speaker 1: of the blue and it's just like, I'm confused. I

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Speaker 1: we just need to end things, like told me. I

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Speaker 1: will even realize he was breaking up with me because

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Speaker 1: I was like, wait, what, No, I'm sitting here thinking

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Speaker 1: like if he would have sat me down and told

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Speaker 1: me why he really was ending relationship, which their way

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Speaker 1: actually was a clear answer, instead of telling me he

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Speaker 1: was just confused and he didn't have any idea why

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Speaker 1: he can't find himself wanting to propose, even though he

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Speaker 1: loves me. My life at that point, I think would

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Speaker 1: have been a little easier because I would have had

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Speaker 1: answers and I wouldn't have had to create one million

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Speaker 1: scenarios in my head. Would it take my pain away? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not. And I think that's where we get a

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Speaker 1: little confused. But I don't know would it stopped me

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Speaker 1: from creating scenarios where I mean and I did this

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Speaker 1: and I don't have any shame saying this, because I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of us do this where I would

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Speaker 1: find myself creating all these stories in my head about

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Speaker 1: after he realized he made this big mistake and and

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Speaker 1: he was just scared and avoided and we would have

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Speaker 1: had this great connection that like really I probably got

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Speaker 1: from like some like Netflix special TV movie idea and

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Speaker 1: then like we were going to connect and then we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get married and we're gonna have this that happily

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Speaker 1: ever after and it was gonna be the sixth sweet,

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Speaker 1: amazing thing. I don't know if if that would have

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Speaker 1: completely stopped me from doing that. And on this other side,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it would completely stop me from

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Speaker 1: demonizing every action that I made in that relationship in

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Speaker 1: the last year, and and if it would have totally

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Speaker 1: stopped me from from question my worth. I can't know

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Speaker 1: that for sure because it didn't happen. And at the

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Speaker 1: same time, I think it would have helped. It would

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Speaker 1: have aided in my complete confusion and utter disbelief and

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Speaker 1: my inability to like want to engage in another relationship.

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Speaker 1: I think if I had a better understanding of what

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Speaker 1: happened and what this person was experiencing in feeling. I

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Speaker 1: think it would have made a difference. It wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: made the situation less painful at all. Do you want

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Speaker 1: to say that again? Would not have made the situation

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Speaker 1: situation less painful, Because just because somebody falls out of

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Speaker 1: love with you or decides they don't love you or

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Speaker 1: leaves you, doesn't mean that you don't still love them.

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Speaker 1: That's a whole other thing. Getting closure doesn't mean I

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Speaker 1: don't love you anymore at all. That is time, space, energy,

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Speaker 1: and all the things about. But I really do think

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Speaker 1: if I knew why this person was leaving me, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have spent so much time trying to create scenarios

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Speaker 1: in my brain where either this wasn't true or this

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Speaker 1: was my fault. I think it would help. It wouldn't

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Speaker 1: do all the work, but it would help. And here

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Speaker 1: is the other thing that I really want you to hear.

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Speaker 1: Having closure again does not mean that you don't care.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean we're not sad, it doesn't mean you're

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Speaker 1: not disappointed. I think that what we miss is that

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Speaker 1: closure is supposed to be about understanding, not not the

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Speaker 1: lack of care or feelings. I can understand something and

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Speaker 1: still be very, very very distraught, upset, depressed, all of

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Speaker 1: the above. When you're thinking about closure and your relationship

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Speaker 1: and what you need. Are you looking for a way

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Speaker 1: to feel differently or are you looking for a way

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Speaker 1: to conceptualize what happened and put accurate meaning to a story?

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Speaker 1: And I think this is a problem and why this

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Speaker 1: advice about you being the only one that can offer

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Speaker 1: closure comes into play because often we will not and

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Speaker 1: cannot get the closure in quotes we really desire, and

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Speaker 1: by closure I mean answers, So it attempts to mitigate

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Speaker 1: that uneasiness. We say the only closure you need is

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Speaker 1: closure within yourself or all you need to do is

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Speaker 1: tell yourself that's over and move on. Like I think

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Speaker 1: that's where that kind of comes from. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think it makes a hell of a lot more

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Speaker 1: sense to say, when you are unable to get the

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Speaker 1: answers that you need or want maybe that's a better

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Speaker 1: word there, want, you're able to create that closure within

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Speaker 1: a different context on your own. It's not the same thing.

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Speaker 1: They're different things. The advice that only you can give

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Speaker 1: yourself closure is so popular these days, like so popular

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Speaker 1: I see all the time on like Instagram and TikTok,

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Speaker 1: and just like there's so many like really like click

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Speaker 1: baity quotes out there that are that tell you that,

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Speaker 1: and I think it feels good to hear that a

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Speaker 1: lot of times. And again, I don't think that that's

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Speaker 1: totally wrong. I wouldn't say the only closure that you

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Speaker 1: need is closure for yourself. I think that going back

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Speaker 1: to what I said earlier, if you're unable to get

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Speaker 1: the answers that you're looking for, I want you guys

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Speaker 1: to know that you're able to create closure within a

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Speaker 1: different context on your own. That's possible. But I think

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Speaker 1: why this has become so popular is one we as

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Speaker 1: humans always want to fix things for other people, like

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Speaker 1: we don't just as much as we don't like discomfort,

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Speaker 1: we don't like discomfort and other people either. And this

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Speaker 1: idea that, like, you only need the closure that you

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Speaker 1: can find within yourself, it offers the person looking for

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Speaker 1: the closure the illusion like of control in a situation

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Speaker 1: where honestly, if we're looking at this realistically, they feel

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Speaker 1: like they have no control because maybe they didn't decide

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Speaker 1: that this relationship or this event or whatever this thing

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Speaker 1: is that left or has gone. They didn't have the

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Speaker 1: control and that that decision and the idea is not

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Speaker 1: bad or wrong and in that sense, because what it's

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Speaker 1: also saying is we can actually take ownership and agency

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Speaker 1: of our own lives and our own stories. And I

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Speaker 1: think that that's a okay. And I wonder, you know,

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Speaker 1: I like to wonder a lot. I wonder what would

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Speaker 1: happen if we were attuned to the idea that it

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Speaker 1: actually can't be okay when we don't have control. There's

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Speaker 1: a bigger idea and this whole closure conversation, like what

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Speaker 1: if we attuned ourselves and we turned ourselves to this

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Speaker 1: place where it's okay when we don't have control. Because

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Speaker 1: this place of you have to give yourself the closure

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Speaker 1: that you need, it like pumps you up in this

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Speaker 1: way that like I can control my life, and I

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Speaker 1: can control my destiny and I can control and totally

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Speaker 1: I think it's appropriate to like take control when we

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Speaker 1: can to control. But when we don't have control of

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Speaker 1: over things sometimes I think there's space for us to

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Speaker 1: identify and sit with the fact and truth that, like,

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Speaker 1: we don't always need control to be okay. Not comfy,

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Speaker 1: definitely not comfy, but we don't always need a control

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Speaker 1: to be okay, and you know it's talking about this

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Speaker 1: in the very beginning of this conversation. We see this

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Speaker 1: in other people more than we see it in ourselves,

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Speaker 1: which is natural. It can be pretty hard to watch

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Speaker 1: somebody else go through, like the constant repeating of questions,

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Speaker 1: when the truth is that the answers that they're looking

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Speaker 1: for they've they've already been told or said, or even

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Speaker 1: nonverbally said, they've already been given. And I experienced this

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Speaker 1: a lot because I sit My job is to sit

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Speaker 1: with people who a lot of times are in these places,

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Speaker 1: and I just sit with them and get to hear

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Speaker 1: the real in their head and the questions that they're

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Speaker 1: asking and the back and forth, and we can find

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Speaker 1: some resolution on something. In the next week they come

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Speaker 1: in and it's like we're back to the same thing,

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Speaker 1: but they're saying it in a different way, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: this is literally the same thing, but here we go.

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Speaker 1: So that's very natural. We all do that at times.

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Speaker 1: And I think the repeating of these scenarios of what

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Speaker 1: they said, of what she said, of what he said,

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Speaker 1: and the repeating of these questions in different ways, and

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Speaker 1: when we keep coming back to these questions after we

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Speaker 1: have answers and we're like, this just doesn't make sense,

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Speaker 1: even though like they've given us the answer. I think

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Speaker 1: that comes down to this. I believe we end up

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Speaker 1: asking the same questions and we keep looking for a closure,

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Speaker 1: and really we have been given the answers that we've

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Speaker 1: been looking for, and we have the ability to create

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Speaker 1: the closure that we need in ourselves. The reason that

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Speaker 1: we have a hard time with this is because in

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Speaker 1: our head we keep looking for closure, but in reality,

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Speaker 1: we are hoping that at some point we will hear

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Speaker 1: a different answer. We're not even really looking for closure.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to get the story to be different. We're

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Speaker 1: looking for an answer that makes everything better and answer

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Speaker 1: that takes our pain away. And that's where I can

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Speaker 1: fully get on board with the idea that closure gets

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Speaker 1: to be something we create. And maybe it's not closure

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Speaker 1: we need, it's hope. Maybe it's not closure we need,

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Speaker 1: it is hope. Because when we're putting all of our

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Speaker 1: energy and all of our attention into understanding somebody else's behavior, thoughts, words, whatever,

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Speaker 1: it is, a lot of times there's no way for

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Speaker 1: us to fully understand it because we're not them, but

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Speaker 1: we do some oer salts in our brains when we

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00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,560
Speaker 1: get answers, we don't like them, so we ask the

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Speaker 1: question a different way, trying to get different answers, saying

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Speaker 1: that we need closure. Really we're trying to get the

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00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,119
Speaker 1: story to change so we can feel better. So it's

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00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,600
Speaker 1: not really closure we're looking for. It's hope. Sometimes there

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Speaker 1: isn't a good, heavy, tangible reason why something ended that's

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Speaker 1: hard to sit with. It's not always about the person

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Speaker 1: being crazy or an asshole, or you being too much

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Speaker 1: or not enough. It's not always about that. Sometimes sure

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Speaker 1: it can be. But often like things end because they

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Speaker 1: end and they didn't work, And I don't think we

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Speaker 1: need any more information other than that. Sometimes sometimes we do,

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00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 1: but sometimes we don't, and our attempts to find closure

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00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 1: are just attempts to like rewrite the story in the

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00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,960
Speaker 1: way that you wanted it to happen. There are plenty

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Speaker 1: of people in my past that I did not want

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Speaker 1: to continue a relationship with for no other reason than

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Speaker 1: I just didn't feel it. I didn't think they were

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Speaker 1: weird or gross or not good enough. It just wasn't

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Speaker 1: a match. I couldn't give them a reason why. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes I'm like, well, maybe in lower stake scenarios I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about like maybe I wanted to buddy who um

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00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,680
Speaker 1: had a different sense of humor. Well, I don't want

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Speaker 1: them to change their sense of humor. For me, that's

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00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 1: like who they are as a person. Like there's that's

390
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 1: not like anything we can do anything about. And I

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00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,960
Speaker 1: would really hate for the people that either like there

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00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 1: wasn't really a heavy reason or for a reason like that,

393
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 1: Like I would hate for them to search the rest

394
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 1: of their lives for answers to questions that are actually irrelevant.

395
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,160
Speaker 1: But answers offer us a sense of peace and control.

396
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 1: And like I said, even if the answers are happy

397
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 1: and fun, their answers and we want that control and

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00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 1: we want that peace. But can we find peace in

399
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,639
Speaker 1: the form of hope? And on the other side of that,

400
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,120
Speaker 1: I think that there sometimes are good, heavy reasons and

401
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: with that sometimes we might not know those reasons for

402
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,679
Speaker 1: a long time. And when it hits that, it like

403
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,119
Speaker 1: hits us like a ton of bricks, like oh, it

404
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 1: all make sense now, But we can't control the timing

405
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 1: of when that ends up making sense to us. Often

406
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: when things end, and there is a reason it will

407
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 1: not make sense to us even when we hear the answers,

408
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 1: because we don't want those answers to be true. That's

409
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,680
Speaker 1: the issue at this idea of closure. I feel like

410
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,639
Speaker 1: I've said that one million times, but I, you know,

411
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: like to you know, hit things home, and what makes

412
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: sense to one human can be very painful for another person.

413
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,880
Speaker 1: So sometimes it's not about understanding that person's perspective when

414
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 1: something has ended. It's about accepting that person's perspective and

415
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 1: finding understanding in ours. If we end up using someone

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00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: else's answers as a foundation for our truth, we can

417
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 1: still write inaccurate stories about who we are because we

418
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 1: write a story about who we are through the lens

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00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,880
Speaker 1: of somebody else. And I don't think that's fair or helpful.

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00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 1: So when you hear the somewhat harsh response of you

421
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 1: don't need closure, you don't need answers, you just need

422
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that it's over and decide to move on.

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00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 1: When you hear that, maybe what's underneath that is the

424
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: idea that hope can exist where to spare lives. I

425
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 1: can be in great pain, you know that there's great

426
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: joy ahead I can be upset, pissed and very confused,

427
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,919
Speaker 1: and in that also acknowledged that life still has the

428
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 1: ability to show me peace and excitement. And I don't

429
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 1: need a wrap and you need to wrap a bow,

430
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 1: a pretty really pretty beautiful like fancy professional bow on

431
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: your past to see that we just need to acknowledge

432
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: that our past is our past. Our world gets too

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00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 1: heavily reliant on control, too often where control is impossible

434
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 1: or not really necessary, And then I get it, I

435
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 1: really do. This is not me preaching to people about

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00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 1: things that I don't struggle with. This is me talking

437
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 1: about things that I also can be in with you.

438
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 1: At times, the world is freaking scary and unpredictable, and

439
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 1: it's totally understandable to want to feel safe, to want

440
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: to have direction, But not every ending that comes with

441
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 1: a puzzle to solve, or maybe there is a puzzle,

442
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,679
Speaker 1: but it's not yours solve, or we don't need to

443
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 1: solve it right now, because solving a puzzle doesn't actually

444
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 1: always offer the safety and security and peace that we

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00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 1: think it will. Sometimes that just leaves us with this

446
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 1: desire and hunger for like the next puzzle, like I

447
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: feel every morning when I want the next wordle So

448
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm still through this conversation in

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00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: the middle of this place around. Closure comes from answers

450
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 1: from other people, and closure comes from yourself. I think

451
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: answers at times can be helpful and answers at times

452
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: can be meaningless and or painful, depending on who we are,

453
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 1: what our stories have already involved in how we conceptualize

454
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: feel and no hope. And I'm sitting here kind of

455
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: wrapping this up, thinking, maybe this is not the outcome

456
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 1: you wanted to hear when you clicked on this podcast episode.

457
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: Maybe you are looking for answers here too, answers to

458
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 1: help you finally put the nail in your own closure saga.

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00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: And if you're a regular listener, you know that I'm

460
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: a sucker for leaving things in your own hands. I'm

461
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,360
Speaker 1: a firm believer that I can offer feedback and some thoughts,

462
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 1: but I can't give you a lot of finality when

463
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: it comes to your story, your brain, and your heart.

464
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 1: So if you're looking for me to give you the

465
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 1: answers so that you can go and find your own

466
00:22:55,240 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: closure in a very mathematical, tangible, all encompassing way that

467
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: can be you know, adjusted to any human at all times,

468
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 1: You're probably gonna be disappointed because I can't do that.

469
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 1: Humans are different, experiences are different, our brains are all different,

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00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 1: our hearts are all different. So I'm gonna leave you

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Speaker 1: with this. If we were to turn our efforts to

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00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: fostering hope, hope for what has meant for me rather

473
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 1: than what I had planned from my life, rather than

474
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: finding straight up closure, which is again going back to

475
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 1: the beginning answers, so we don't have to sit in ambiguity,

476
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: would I be able to give myself the chance to rest,

477
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: the chance to breathe, and the chance to start living

478
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 1: in my presence that I have been desperately longing for.

479
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I can't answer that question for you,

480
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: but I want you to play with it. I want

481
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: you to try it out. I want you to sit

482
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: with it, touch it, get to know it. And maybe

483
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: the solution that we're looking for isn't the answers to

484
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: how to find closure, it's the idea around shifting our

485
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: need for control to a desire for hope. So I'm

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00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: gonna leave you with that. I hope you have the

487
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: day you need to have, and remember as always, you

488
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: can connect and find me a couple of ways. You

489
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 1: can email me if you have a question around this

490
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: or any other episode we've done, or just anything in general.

491
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: You can send that to Catherine at You Need Therapy

492
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. You can also just email me to

493
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 1: say hi, because I like to you know, know who

494
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: you are. I don't always answer the emails. I try

495
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: my best. It's really hard for me. My brain is

496
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: always everywhere. But I do appreciate them and I do

497
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: read them. But you can email me. You can follow

498
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: me at cat dot de fata, and you can follow

499
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 1: the podcast at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. So

500
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 1: have the day, you have, feel your feelings, explore the hope,

501
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: and I will talk to you guys on Wednesday for

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Speaker 1: Couch Talks two