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Speaker 1: If I'm viewing myself as a business, I'm starving my business.

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Speaker 2: So here we are and beautiful home with your job.

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Speaker 3: In case she Burg's thanks for having us, perfect, thanks

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Speaker 3: for having me. A lot has been going off with

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Speaker 3: you obviously, Yeah, I think this might be one of

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Speaker 3: the first chats you're rinning after.

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Speaker 4: Yes, definitely, yeah. I have not had many conversations about.

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Speaker 1: It, definitely, not publicly, although I've been trying to share

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Speaker 1: along the way on social media. But it's nice to

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Speaker 1: get the full narrative out there, so it should be fun.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you're known as being a really transparent, thoughtful,

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Speaker 3: articulate and sort of like willing to engage player on

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Speaker 3: the tour athlete along the way every step you've sort

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Speaker 3: of been talking back towards what's the reaction been in

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Speaker 3: terms of talking through the cancer diagnosis, how you're feeling,

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Speaker 3: and then now post surgery.

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Speaker 1: First of all, thanks, that's really nice thing to say,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, it's been awesome. We had actually a conversation

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Speaker 1: me and my fiance Jack a couple of days before

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Speaker 1: going into surgery, and we were like, kind of, how

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Speaker 1: are we going to handle this? Are we gonna be public?

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Speaker 1: Am I gonna kind of keep it close to my

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Speaker 1: chest until we have things worked out. And he kind

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Speaker 1: of gave me the sage advice that I had been

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Speaker 1: transparent about just about everything else, so it wouldn't really

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Speaker 1: be me to not go through it somewhat publicly and

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Speaker 1: share my experience. And we actually we had a conversation

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Speaker 1: about how we wanted to frame it too.

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Speaker 4: We were like, you know, is there a way that

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Speaker 4: we can make this.

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Speaker 1: Like not miserable and dark and shadowy and like bring

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Speaker 1: some light to this process and also maybe help other

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Speaker 1: people who are going through these things not feel like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, this is dark and scary and dire.

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Speaker 4: And I think we really took that to heart.

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Speaker 1: And like, throughout the whole time I was in the hospital,

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Speaker 1: We're taking selfies, We're like joking, we had like rocky

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Speaker 1: music playing, and I was like jogging down the hospital

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Speaker 1: corridors with my little like machine sticking on me. So

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Speaker 1: as weird as it sounds like, we try to have

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Speaker 1: fun with it. And yeah, I mean, the TICS community

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Speaker 1: has been incredible. I think it takes going through something

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Speaker 1: like this to realize all the benefit that comes out

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Speaker 1: of social media and just you know, the level of

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Speaker 1: connection that we have to like fans and random people.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: I think we complain about it a lot, like the

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Speaker 1: negative things that come from it, but I've just felt

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Speaker 1: so wrapped up and like love and support from everyone

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Speaker 1: that it's been really meaningful for me, and I think

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways reinvigorated my like love of

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Speaker 1: the sport of tennis.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so I want to go just sort of go

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Speaker 5: back a little bit too.

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Speaker 6: We were talking on our way over here and and

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Speaker 6: I said, just wanted to know because I think everyone

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Speaker 6: worries about this at some point in their lives, and

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Speaker 6: it doesn't happen to a lot of people, but I

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Speaker 6: want to know the first thought out of your head

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Speaker 6: when your doctor said the word cancer, Like the first

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Speaker 6: I mean, did you go there as a as an

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Speaker 6: athlete who's who's who's now being diagnosed with cancer?

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Speaker 5: Or did you go to just being a human being

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Speaker 5: who's just been diagnosed?

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Speaker 4: Definitely human?

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Speaker 1: And for some background on me, I have no idea

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Speaker 1: why specifically, but for some reason, cancer has been my

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Speaker 1: number one fear as a human being. I just like,

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Speaker 1: I was like, if there's one thing I don't want

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Speaker 1: to deal in life, within life.

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Speaker 4: It's cancer. And I don't know if that's because you know,

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Speaker 4: the treatments.

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Speaker 1: Can be so harrowing, or you know, I have my

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Speaker 1: grandmother went through breast cancer when I was young, and

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Speaker 1: I think that had an impact on me.

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Speaker 4: So I'm going to be honest, like I did not

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Speaker 4: react with poise.

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Speaker 1: It was actually a phone call because this was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be like a walk through biopsy.

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Speaker 4: My my oral surgeon was like, you know.

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Speaker 1: This really looks okay, and based on the history of it,

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Speaker 1: we think it's gonna be benign. Actually sent me to

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Speaker 1: Cara Win's bachelorette party over the weekend and he was like.

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Speaker 4: Oh, like have fun, it will be fine.

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Speaker 1: And I got a call and I was alone at

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Speaker 1: the house and he said cancer, and I like, kind

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Speaker 1: of I was glazed over for the whole rest of

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Speaker 1: the conversation. I don't really remember what we were talking about.

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Speaker 1: But he didn't offer any additional details. Really, it was like,

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Speaker 1: it's positive for cancer. I'm not a specialist. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to consult with someone. Here's an appointment for two

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Speaker 1: days from now. And so I think I was in

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Speaker 1: shock for a moment, and then as soon as I

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Speaker 1: got off the phone and I called Jack. I lost

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Speaker 1: my mind. I definitely went into that am I gonna die?

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Speaker 1: Like what's happening? Is my tennis career over? Like I

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Speaker 1: went full melodramatic, like I was not measure.

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Speaker 2: So is warranted in that case?

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Speaker 6: But the athletic heart came to you like not only

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Speaker 6: you're taken care of yourself, but you actually were like,

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Speaker 6: what am I going to do with my life? You know,

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Speaker 6: even if it's if it's a good diagnosis, since things

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Speaker 6: that work out, or what is this going to do

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Speaker 6: to me?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think immediately you go to your reference points.

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Speaker 1: So I'm thinking, like, Okay, Vicky Duval went through something

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Speaker 1: like this and she was out for a year and

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Speaker 1: it's been really hard for her to get her body

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Speaker 1: back under her.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I've.

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Speaker 5: Had a karina or arau also I went through.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and a lot of players really struggle coming

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Speaker 1: back after that.

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Speaker 4: Clevenova, I know I had difficulty as.

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Speaker 1: Well, and yeah, so definitely my first thought was the

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Speaker 1: issue of mortality and hoping that I wasn't going to die,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, definitely within a few hours, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was looking at Jack saying, is my Ted's career over?

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Speaker 4: Like what does this mean?

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Speaker 1: And you know, I was really fortunate that it ended

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Speaker 1: up being a diagnosis that was not that dire. But

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Speaker 1: when you're living in that uncertainty, I think that's almost

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Speaker 1: the hardest element. As soon as you like have the

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Speaker 1: next step and you're like okay, like there's something to do, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And I remember you went pretty soon after on social

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Speaker 3: media to talk about it. You went on morning programs

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Speaker 3: to sort of talk about it in terms of detection.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that was actually bizarre.

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Speaker 1: That was super bizarre because I announced it on a Monday.

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Speaker 1: My surgery was scheduled for Friday, and my mom works

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Speaker 1: at Western Dental, and so her firm's PR agency reached

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Speaker 1: out to me and was like, do you want to

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Speaker 1: come on the Today Show tomorrow? Sure, on a Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: like to talk about you know, preventive healthcare. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, again, I just felt like out of body.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I mean, sure, yeah, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I had had some processing time by that point. Originally

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Speaker 1: my surgery was scheduled for earlier.

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Speaker 4: I think like May, early in May, and.

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Speaker 1: Then my doctor had given me the go ahead to

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Speaker 1: actually delay surgery by a couple of weeks because he

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Speaker 1: said my tumor wasn't that aggressive, and so I went

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Speaker 1: and played a couple more tournaments just in case I

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Speaker 1: can push my nose into Madraw Wimbledon and give myself Wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: an extra week to come back on the back end.

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Speaker 5: Did people know about that when you went and played?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean you can't do that like whatever,

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Speaker 1: I like tell everyone, hey.

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Speaker 4: I have cancer, like good luck against me tomorrow, like.

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Speaker 6: Well not necessarily just like public Like did people know

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Speaker 6: about it?

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Speaker 5: Yeah no, no, that's.

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Speaker 2: Was it a different feeling. So yeah, the court were

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Speaker 2: like okay, breath.

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Speaker 4: It was a little bit of everything.

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Speaker 1: The first week, I actually felt really good because I

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Speaker 1: came in with such low expectations for like what my

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Speaker 1: mental fortitude was going to be, and I actually made

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Speaker 1: quarterfinals and then lost to that Juvon girl who's really good.

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Speaker 1: I think she she's a good tens player, So I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, okay, cool. And then the next week

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Speaker 1: I think it got more real because that was like

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Speaker 1: the last tournament before my surgery, so I knew as

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Speaker 1: soon as I lost, like I was gonna have to

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Speaker 1: go home and confront that and I actually had a

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Speaker 1: colossal like mental breakdown. Was up like six three two

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Speaker 1: oh in my match started playing absolutely terrible and like

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Speaker 1: mid third set, just like went.

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Speaker 4: To town on a racket and everybody in the crowd

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Speaker 4: is just like, oh, like what down? Yeah exactly, I

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Speaker 4: mean it happens. Yeah, it's like bi annual.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, keep straight, I've seen one of the byes

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Speaker 6: the annuals.

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Speaker 1: Well, see then it can't even probably be bi annual

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Speaker 1: if she's seen one, so it might be more often

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Speaker 1: than that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, no, I I definitely boil over sometimes.

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Speaker 4: And that was that was an example.

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Speaker 2: Well in this case completely justified.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was still embarrassing because.

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Speaker 6: The court was were you, you know, because when you're

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Speaker 6: on the court obviously thinking about, you know, hitting the

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Speaker 6: ball here and doing that and you know, blah blah blah,

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Speaker 6: were you like constantly going in and out of like

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Speaker 6: this stite of like am I gonna die? And you're

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Speaker 6: not gonna die? But you are gonna win this? Like

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Speaker 6: basically like did you were you out there thinking?

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Speaker 1: Fortunately, fortunately by that point I knew that there wasn't

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Speaker 1: very unlikely to kill me, and then it was almost

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Speaker 1: certainly a surgical cancer that it would be like a

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Speaker 1: one and done situation.

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Speaker 4: So at least I didn't have that out there.

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Speaker 6: You didn't change your like you know, when you miss

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Speaker 6: a shot and you're like kill kill me, You're like, no.

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Speaker 5: It didn't mean that, Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 1: It is crazy how like there's just like a magnification

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Speaker 1: on every like little phrase like that.

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Speaker 4: You'll say like kill me and you're like no, no, exactly. No.

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Speaker 1: But one thing I did notice is I like my

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Speaker 1: mind would passively go to this like really entitled place

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Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, well, like I have to

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Speaker 1: deal with this you know, bullshit off the court, So

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Speaker 1: like why am I not? Like why am I not

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Speaker 1: being like given the win? Essentially they did not and

207
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Speaker 1: yeah exactly, And no, I just meant like cosmically I

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Speaker 1: felt like I was owed something and I was like

209
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Speaker 1: aware I was having this like existential crisis on court.

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Speaker 1: I was like that's ridiculous, Like I was talking to myself.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you can't be that, Like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it was.

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Speaker 4: It was crazy.

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Speaker 1: I was not in any sort of like place to

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Speaker 1: really Yeah, it was a cool, like all of this

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Speaker 1: has been such a cool, like self social experiment, like

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Speaker 1: just seeing how like I handled different situations, and like,

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Speaker 1: you know, there are moments where I've felt really weak,

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Speaker 1: but there are also moments where I've been like, wow,

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Speaker 1: like i just went through my literal biggest fear and

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Speaker 1: I'm now on the other side of that.

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Speaker 4: And yes, it could have been way, way worse.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm not pretending like I had it bad, but like,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's something really empowering about that. Especially with

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Speaker 1: my history of like depression anxiety, you would think, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I thought immediately, I was like I can't

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Speaker 1: You're going to go down into.

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Speaker 4: I was like, I can't handle this.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've been off of medications for about a

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Speaker 1: year and been doing pretty well, but you know, my

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Speaker 1: first thought was like this is too much.

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Speaker 4: For someone really, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: But I got some good advice from friends who had

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Speaker 1: been through it and also my psychiatrist that was like,

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Speaker 1: you can let yourself have some sand X.

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Speaker 4: During this process.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that allowed me to at least like get

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Speaker 1: a good night's sleep every night and wake up at

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Speaker 1: least ready to take on the day.

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Speaker 3: There's more more to sort of discuss linearly about this,

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Speaker 3: because obviously we're catching you, you know, in recovery, and

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Speaker 3: you're sort of pivoting forward. But I kind of want

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Speaker 3: to take something that you just said, because I mean,

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Speaker 3: one of the reasons I think you are so widely

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Speaker 3: admired and certainly somebody who I reached out to early

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Speaker 3: when we were making a magazine.

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Speaker 1: To write for us.

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Speaker 2: When the offer is still on the table.

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Speaker 4: Tell me to do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, whenever you have a free moment, which you know

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Speaker 3: understand the way you haven't had many, you know, is

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Speaker 3: just this concept of entitlement. You know, you are, to

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Speaker 3: your immense credit, willing to sort of wade into conversations.

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Speaker 3: Obviously a lot of this plays out on social media,

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Speaker 3: you know, really really talking about honestly things that we

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Speaker 3: try to get into in our magazine as well, you know,

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Speaker 3: the state of the world, using tennis as a lens, obviously,

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Speaker 3: using your experience as a lens to talk about inequality, entitlement.

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Speaker 3: Your kid from Cleveland and now you're living in la

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Speaker 3: and you know, you've seen a lot of the world

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Speaker 3: talk about that in terms of like having had this experience,

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Speaker 3: you know, because it strikes me like you've seen like

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Speaker 3: one of the least entitled professional athletes who has a

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Speaker 3: crazy life that I've never sort of encountered. So so

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Speaker 3: now hearing like, oh I felt entitled, like I was

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Speaker 3: on the wind, you know that.

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Speaker 2: How has that changed for you?

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Speaker 4: Right it?

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Speaker 1: I think it's hard to go through a situation like

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Speaker 1: that where you're like staring even for forty eight hours,

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Speaker 1: like staring down the varrel of your own mortality, and

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Speaker 1: not have some sort of like epiphany or just like

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Speaker 1: perspective shift. And you know, I remember one of the

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Speaker 1: first things Jack said when we got the diagnosis was,

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Speaker 1: if this isn't the worst thing that ever happens, stuff,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be the best thing.

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Speaker 4: And we've been trying to build on that and just.

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Speaker 1: Like use that momentum in a way, I think one

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Speaker 1: of the most immediate takeaways and you know, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about entitlement here. I feel entitled to my tennis career,

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Speaker 1: And in a moment, I saw it flash before my eyes,

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Speaker 1: and I just realized how much I cared about it.

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Speaker 1: Like obviously, like we all have our ups and downs,

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Speaker 1: and we have our moments and we're like, fuck this,

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Speaker 1: I want to quit tennis. I'm over this, And for me,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of every third week, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: why am I doing this? This is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: so frustrating. I've been spinning on a hamster wheel between

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Speaker 1: one hundred and ten and one hundred and fifty in

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Speaker 1: the world for the past like two years.

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Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, you know, in.

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Speaker 1: That like terrible like kind of limbo sometimes or what

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Speaker 1: I was perceiving as terrible, And you know, now it's like,

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Speaker 1: how terrible.

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Speaker 4: Is that really?

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Speaker 1: And like at least I realized, like if I weren't

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Speaker 1: to ever quit tennis, how important it would be that

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Speaker 1: that were on my terms. And it just made me

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Speaker 1: realize like how much I still felt like I had

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Speaker 1: to do within the game. And then you know after

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Speaker 1: as well, like in terms of like what I use

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Speaker 1: my tennis for. And so while I'm rebuilding right now,

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Speaker 1: I'm really looking to kind of like change the way

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Speaker 1: I think about my tennis. I think previously I was

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Speaker 1: managing this like financial bottom line where I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I have to be like, you know, making money at

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Speaker 1: all times, otherwise I don't consider myself like a successful

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Speaker 1: professional athlete. Now, you know, with this experience behind me,

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Speaker 1: I'm much more like how can I get myself to

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Speaker 1: get the absolute most out of out of me in

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Speaker 1: this tennis career.

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Speaker 4: I don't care about the money.

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Speaker 1: I just want to see how good I can get

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Speaker 1: if I invest I really like, you know, surround myself

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Speaker 1: with the right people.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: The hard work has always come easy to me, but

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Speaker 1: like make sure I'm you know, working the right way

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Speaker 1: and on the right things. It was just the kick

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Speaker 1: in the butt that I needed to really make sure

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Speaker 1: all my decks are in a row and moving forward,

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Speaker 1: I have a really clear plan.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, you cannot be making money as a

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Speaker 3: professional athlete and having a tremendous impact going on the

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Speaker 3: Today Show talking about prevention, talking about you know, positivity,

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Speaker 3: talking about anxiety, talking about politics, and so to me,

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Speaker 3: it's only sort of amplified. It doesn't surprise me that

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Speaker 3: you handle this well. But it's still pretty remarkable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it gives me at least

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Speaker 1: a little more spotlight right now. As weird as that sounds, like,

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Speaker 1: people are interested in hearing from me right now, so

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Speaker 1: to the extent that I can use like going through

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Speaker 1: something like that to like, you know, again shed light

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Speaker 1: on the things that I think are important or even

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Speaker 1: if it's as simple as what I said earlier, just

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Speaker 1: like taking people on a journey through illness that maybe

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Speaker 1: isn't as like scary and like stigmatized as it normally is.

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Speaker 1: I know for me, like I expect people to be

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Speaker 1: kind of like dark and shadowy when they're going through

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Speaker 1: things like that.

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Speaker 4: So again, just I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I sometimes truly feel all over the place because there's

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Speaker 1: so many things that I'm really passionate about, and I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things that is going to be

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Speaker 1: really important for me moving into this like what I'm

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Speaker 1: calling the second chapter or second half of my career

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Speaker 1: is just going to be honing in on what I.

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Speaker 4: Can be most effective advocating for.

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Speaker 1: Whether that means like being more hands on with a

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Speaker 1: specific charity or you know, focus focusing on feminism or

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Speaker 1: focusing on you know, outreach for you know, minorities who

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Speaker 1: don't have access to tennis in la. Whatever direction I

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Speaker 1: want to take, I want to I want to take

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Speaker 1: it with like a little more gusto and a little

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Speaker 1: more yeah, a little more intention because right now it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like I feel all these things that I'm

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Speaker 1: like so impassionate about, but I'm not sure I'm lending

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Speaker 1: anything to them because I'm not really like focusing my efforts.

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Speaker 6: I just want everybody to know that while we're having

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Speaker 6: podcast and your T shirt says female af which we

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Speaker 6: all know, and it says by on the bottom, so

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Speaker 6: female as fuck bye.

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Speaker 5: Okay it needs to go bye.

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Speaker 6: But no, but like it's, well, you know, I'm here

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Speaker 6: for those things, kay, I'm here for the important stuff,

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Speaker 6: like you know, the visual stuff that people can't see

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Speaker 6: at home. But you know, one of the things also

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Speaker 6: you say, it's like project, you know, your second life

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Speaker 6: in tennis really because of what's happened to you. But

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Speaker 6: also you know, one of the things that we talked

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Speaker 6: to about today was you know the depression that comes

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Speaker 6: after stopping your sport because you wake up every day

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Speaker 6: and you have a purpose, whether it be going to the.

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Speaker 5: Gym and you know you went.

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Speaker 6: I think I know your scheduled is it's certain to

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Speaker 6: read you practice. You went to the gym, you know,

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Speaker 6: you had a meeting, you blah blah blah. And now

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Speaker 6: you're talking to us. It's like every day there's a

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Speaker 6: purpose and now all of a sudden, when tennis is retired,

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Speaker 6: you're done.

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Speaker 5: You wake up and go, oh, what am I? Who

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Speaker 5: am I? What am I doing?

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Speaker 6: So do you think about the process of you want

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Speaker 6: to do after you've done playing, as well as the

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Speaker 6: second part of your tennis you know, life after this

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Speaker 6: scaree with cancer?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, first of all, I definitely think about that, like,

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Speaker 1: what is my identity going to be when it's not

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Speaker 1: pro tennis player or even tennis player period, because you know,

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Speaker 1: for most of us, I've been playing since I was three,

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Speaker 1: So twenty three years out of my twenty six on Earth,

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Speaker 1: I've had a tennis.

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Speaker 4: Racket in my hand.

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Speaker 1: And what is that going to mean when that's not

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Speaker 1: how I introduce myself anymore.

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Speaker 5: Well, don't worry, You'll always be the tennis player. Everywhere

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Speaker 5: you go. There you're the tennis player.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but you know, like you're.

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Speaker 1: Like you're saying, there, there will be a void of purpose,

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Speaker 1: and I know well enough to prepare for that.

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Speaker 4: But it's getting more and more real.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not twenty one anymore, so I have

403
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Speaker 1: to start looking at you know, what I'm going to

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Speaker 1: do when traveling the world.

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Speaker 4: Thirty weeks out of the year. Does it make sense

406
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Speaker 4: for me anymore? You know? I want to.

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Speaker 1: Settle down and have kids. What is that next chapter

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Speaker 1: going to look like for me? I don't have the answer.

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Speaker 1: I change my mind literally every day. Sometimes I'm like, jeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to Stanford, and then I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go to law school and he's like what why? And

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Speaker 1: then some days I'm like, Okay, we're gonna move to

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Speaker 1: Maui and we're gonna just like.

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Speaker 4: Surf all the time, raise like little grams who.

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Speaker 5: Like get adopted. Yeah, if you do that, well, I'm

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Speaker 5: up for adult Yeah, my parents know.

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Speaker 1: But I definitely have the sense that even if I

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Speaker 1: did something like the Maui plan that I would I

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Speaker 1: would want to have a lot of purpose to my

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Speaker 1: day and day out, you know, beyond parenthood.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, so ply Okay, let's let's do a prequel,

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Speaker 6: like we're gonna do a prequel Star Star Wars or

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Speaker 6: Game of Thrones.

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Speaker 5: Okay, go back to this girl.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 6: Anyway, Well, go back to you know, we've had this

427
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Speaker 6: situation happened in the Last School of Days where ash

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Speaker 6: bodies want a Grand Slam.

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Speaker 5: She's number one in the world.

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Speaker 6: It's crazy, right, quit playing tennis for two years but

431
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Speaker 6: she had to have an environment around her and people

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Speaker 6: around her that were going, it's okay, Ash, if you

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Speaker 6: don't want to play anymore, it's up to you, as

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Speaker 6: opposed to I mean, people like me were in the locker.

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Speaker 5: Room going, what are you doing?

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Speaker 4: Are you kidding me?

437
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Speaker 5: You just made another grand slain doubles, final dollars a year,

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Speaker 5: blah blah blah. You know, just because I couldn't conceptionally.

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Speaker 6: Think, Ash, you have the world, you can be so

440
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Speaker 6: good and you're walking away like I couldn't believe it.

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Speaker 7: But the story is she knew what she needed to

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Speaker 7: do to be successful because Eric to keep playing was

443
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 7: going to put her in a hole, like a depressing

444
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 7: hole of like the wheels going, She's everyone expects.

445
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,919
Speaker 6: Her to be great, but she didn't quite make it,

446
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 6: let's say, because she wasn't happy to make that decision

447
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,400
Speaker 6: at that moment to pull away. You went to college,

448
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 6: like were you? So she was around parents that were

449
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 6: not going to push her in a way she didn't

450
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 6: want to go. So you going to college as opposed

451
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 6: to trying to turn pro or turning pro once you'd

452
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 6: won and been so dominant at Stanford, Like what was

453
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 6: your parental guidance, because I think people at home need

454
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 6: to hear this.

455
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, well my parental guidance was got.

456
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 5: To hope it was good after that.

457
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 4: No, No, it was amazing.

458
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 1: And obviously I very arrogantly think I did everything the

459
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 1: way that I needed to, and that's credit.

460
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:25,920
Speaker 4: To my college test.

461
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, my dad played college tennis. It was it was

462
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 1: not consistent the whole way. I will say there were

463
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 1: some pushes where my dad thought I should be homeschooling

464
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: in high school, and I said, no, way, I can't.

465
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 1: I've always been a social creature. I just like thrive

466
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 1: on being in a classroom or being around other people. So,

467
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, he was definitely happy for me to make

468
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 1: that decision, but we did talk about homeschooling several times.

469
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,959
Speaker 1: You know, I'm really fortunate he was a school teacher

470
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,440
Speaker 1: and so he prioritized education really highly.

471
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 4: Started my mom. My mom's brilliant.

472
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: She was like valedictorian our high school and it's now

473
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: a CMO at a dental company.

474
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 4: So she's yeah, she's.

475
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 5: She's female AF.

476
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 4: Yes, she is female AF.

477
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 1: So I was really lucky that they just like prioritize

478
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: education so highly, and I actually I had this weird

479
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 1: thing in high school. I skipped my sophomore year so

480
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: that I could The idea was I could go play

481
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 1: a year on tour when I was seventeen before going

482
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 1: to school to like kind of test the waters. But

483
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: then when I got to age seventeen, I was like,

484
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: first of all, I'm three hundred and fifty in the world,

485
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 1: and second of all, I'm like four pounds and like

486
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: way smaller and weaker than everyone else.

487
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 4: And so I was like, Stanford sounds pretty good.

488
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 5: Sure.

489
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 4: My dad actually fought tooth and.

490
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: Nail for UCLA because he wanted to keep me in

491
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: his backyard, and I was.

492
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 4: Like, absolutely not.

493
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, I ended up going to Stanford and then

494
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: from there, like you know, as a credit to my parents,

495
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: they were so incredibly hands off and just kind of

496
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 1: let me make my decisions.

497
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 4: My dad, I.

498
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: Think, was like eyeing me suspiciously when I went back

499
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: after my sophomore year because we weren't. I won the

500
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: singles and the doubles that year, and he's like, Okay,

501
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: what were you going to get out of college tis

502
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't have the team title yet,

503
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 1: I need to go back. Also, I met this really

504
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: nice guy, and so I went back for you know,

505
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 1: one more year, and we did get the team title

506
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: as twelve scenes, which was at the time historic, but

507
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: Stanford has sensed one.

508
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 4: Up to that. Yeah, maybe unbelievable, very rare this year.

509
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, no want this year, they want.

510
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: I think they went in lower Sea.

511
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

512
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: So I ended up defending the singles title too, which

513
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: was a lot of pressure, knowing that I was going

514
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: pro and knowing that that put a at the time

515
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars check in my pocket. I was like,

516
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 1: I need this to start off my career. So yeah,

517
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: I was really proud in that I've hurt. I wouldn't

518
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: change it.

519
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 6: Then, do you have conversations with people because I mean,

520
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 6: obviously you know my relationship and closeness with Lisa Raymond,

521
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 6: who in my opinion, could have turned pro. I mean,

522
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 6: she was good enough as a player to turn pro,

523
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 6: but wasn't mentally and you know, just felt the same

524
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 6: way it wasn't ready wanted.

525
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 5: To be in a team environment.

526
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 6: And she also won back to back NT double singles

527
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 6: titles and the team title the first year that she

528
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 6: went there.

529
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 5: Do you have conversations with parents and with some kids.

530
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 6: Maybe, Now do they ever approach you or your dad

531
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 6: or say, you know, should I or do you do

532
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 6: you actively try and promote?

533
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: Oh I heard, I've promote college so hard. I mean,

534
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: the chances of making it on tour are just so

535
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: catastrophically small.

536
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 5: Wait, wait a second, say that again.

537
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: The chances of making it on tour are just astronomically smart.

538
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 5: And you want to nt double a singles tile.

539
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm still like fairly hacking it. Like I mean, I'm,

540
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, outside top one hundred, let's say that for

541
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: most of my career. So yeah, I want to shake

542
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: some of these parents sometimes who have their Yeah they're

543
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: like fourteen year old kid who's ranked number eight in

544
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: this section and they're homeschooling them, and they're like fast

545
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: tracking them to the pro tour.

546
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 4: I'm like, what what do you was talking you into this?

547
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's crazy, but it is the culture of tennis.

548
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: I mean there was not a single day growing up

549
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: training at USTA where I didn't feel pressure for you know,

550
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 1: being in school or from just everyone at USTA.

551
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 4: The expectation was if you.

552
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: Were at a certain level, you were homeschooling and the

553
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: fact that I wasn't homeschooling meant that I wasn't committed

554
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: to tennis, And you know that was that was reflecting

555
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: occasionally in the kind of resources that.

556
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 4: I was able to get. And I will say to

557
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 4: being diplomatic.

558
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 1: USK has done amazing things for me and has provided

559
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: me coaching through the years, But at the time, college.

560
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 4: Was really not in vogue.

561
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: And one time I was even told that I couldn't

562
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: wear college here when I came to train at Carson.

563
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: That was because that was promoting kids going yeah to college,

564
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: which would be horrific.

565
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, so you don't have to be diplomatic.

566
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 6: You can be diplomatic, but I don't have to be

567
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 6: I mean what they're like seriously the USTA.

568
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 4: See.

569
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 6: The thing that bothers me about that is that tennis

570
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 6: is now it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. Women

571
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 6: are winning, Okay, ash body in Osaka. They're a little bit.

572
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 5: Of an anomaly right now.

573
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 6: You know, we're talking players and winning slams are in

574
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 6: the late twenties, thirties. You know, that's the promoting part.

575
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 6: We should be thinking about, how can we keep these

576
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 6: kids that are really good in the sport for an

577
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 6: extended period of time and sending them to college is

578
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 6: not a bad option.

579
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 5: That doesn't mean it's a failure.

580
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say I don't like what college tennis

581
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 1: has done with the rule adaptations in terms for in

582
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: terms of preparation for tour. I have heard from a

583
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: couple of players that they think the the no AD

584
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: and the modified scoring creates extra pressure which prepares you mentally.

585
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: But I think that would have influenced me and my

586
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: dad's perspective if that had been the case.

587
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 2: Before, I made you more likely to go pro knowing

588
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: that that's.

589
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 4: What the possibly I think.

590
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 5: So, yeah, I think it should be more about the

591
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 5: pro scoring.

592
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: System, yeah, or or the pro scoring system should be

593
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: more more modernized instead, you know what I mean, Like

594
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: it just needs to be a symmetry.

595
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

596
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, to be clear and to be fair,

597
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: I think to the USTA, they're not they're in the

598
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: business of creating tennis players, right, and if you're creating tennis.

599
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 6: Players, or is it their business to create tennis in

600
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 6: tennis environment.

601
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 4: That's popular right right? Yes?

602
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: But but you know, player development specifically is looking for

603
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: where's my next arena? Where is my next like you know,

604
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: major influential player, and someone like me is not likely

605
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: to be that coming through college. I think, like, I

606
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 1: think some of these kids are just so freaking talented

607
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: when they're young, Like you're saying, like an Osaka or

608
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: something like that, Like they just have the physical presence.

609
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 3: You know, is should the USA's job be about minting

610
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: stars or should be about growing the sport in all realms?

611
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 3: Because to me, you're elite is a player obviously, but

612
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 3: you have a ton to sort of say about it

613
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 3: in a way that will I think, broaden the tent.

614
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: That's why we.

615
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 5: Started the magazine. That's what we're having conversations like this.

616
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: It's about showing many, many, many iterations of the tennis

617
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 3: experience and it's excellent, but it's also about who can

618
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 3: sort of be a spokesperson who can sort of bring

619
00:28:58,560 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 3: people in.

620
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: I think to me, that's of the job.

621
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: I mean, that's definitely part of the job, But like

622
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: I don't know viewing it from like either a financial

623
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: perspective or a business perspective, Like there's nothing like a

624
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: superstar in terms of like bringing people into.

625
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 4: A sport or like, you know, a story that.

626
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: Captures everyone and like fortunately or unfortunately, that's usually the

627
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: fourteen year.

628
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 4: Old sensation who's just coming on the scene.

629
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: I think people love that, you know, and like get

630
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: really excited about that, or at least I think that's

631
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: how the USCA conceptualizes it.

632
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 2: That's been the path.

633
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 4: So yeah, so I don't know.

634
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: For me, it's understandable from a business perspective, and honestly,

635
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: the culture has improved. I would say ten X like

636
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,959
Speaker 1: they're yeah, they're hosting college tennis matches.

637
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 4: That's Orlando now, Like they're opening their arms a lot.

638
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: You know. Since being on tour, I felt very supported,

639
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: you know, in spite of or because of my college background,

640
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: it hasn't really been an issue. So I think it's

641
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: a couple leaps and bounds in the last like eight

642
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: years or so, and in fairness.

643
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 4: Along with the change in what the average as in

644
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 4: the top hundred was.

645
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and we're seeing because fifteen years ago,

646
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: a year twenty six and you're at one ten in

647
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: the world, you should be long gone from tennis.

648
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 4: It's not going to happen.

649
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: It uses as a chance to sort of get back

650
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 2: to chapter two. So chapter two is both.

651
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 3: You coming back to the sport with a different perspective,

652
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 3: using those moments, talking about impact, talking about sort of

653
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 3: maybe pulling together holistically, all of these different things that

654
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: interest you, and you know it sounds like it's still

655
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 3: work in progress. But like as of today, right now,

656
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 3: how is that sort of taken shape in your mind?

657
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question. I don't think I'm I'm

658
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: that far down the path yet. I'm I think five

659
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: and a half weeks out of surgery as of right now.

660
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 5: So you have a competitive match, Yeah, I don't know.

661
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 5: How do you think you're going to react when you

662
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 5: go back?

663
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: I really don't know. I know enough now, you know,

664
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: not to try to predict it. No, my dreams have

665
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: been notably.

666
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 4: Silent lately, Like I've stopped dreaming since all of this happened.

667
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 4: I think I have enough to stress.

668
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: It out during my waiting hours that my prain is

669
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: just like no, leave me on.

670
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 6: I think more times like have you had a conversation

671
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 6: with yourself like all right, okay, Nicole, when you walk

672
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 6: on the court, okay.

673
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 5: Just be normal done, like carrying on.

674
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 4: I don't think there's anything like that, or should you.

675
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 6: Wave on and like wave and everyone you know what

676
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 6: I mean, Like you have those moments.

677
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,959
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't. I don't know.

678
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: I think the one thing that has stood out to

679
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: me as like kind of a mission statement for when

680
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: I go back on the court is be a little

681
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: bit less serious. I've always been so type A, like

682
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: I must work the hardest and do everything perfectly. And

683
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: you know, I think I need to let go of that.

684
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: It's time, you know, I think it's it's a normal

685
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: reaction to being on on tour, especially from a young age.

686
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: You just start having this sensation if you can just

687
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: control everything, that everything will work out well. But at

688
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I would rather watch like

689
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: a Nick Krrios match than you know, like half of

690
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: the players on the men's tour, because it's goofy and

691
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: it's funky underhands.

692
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 4: Start love it. I love it.

693
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 6: And you know you share the same workiness with your

694
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 6: male players that you love to watch.

695
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 5: I mean, I love But you're obsessed with Bena.

696
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: Well, I think I haven't spent as much time with Ben,

697
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: but I've spent a lot of time watching Nick. And

698
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: I think the fun thing is just that he doesn't

699
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: take it that seriously, like and and he gets totally

700
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: shout on for that.

701
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 5: But like, I think that's great.

702
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 6: The problem is so hard to get there right because

703
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 6: you feel like, I mean, you tap into but if

704
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 6: you pretend, not pretend, if.

705
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 5: You think, oh it's don't take it so seriously enjoy it, you.

706
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 6: Think, well, then you don't care enough, right giving you

707
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 6: about that balance it is. But ironically, that's another thing

708
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 6: that Asha think has done well stepping away is that

709
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 6: you know, even when she wins, it's kind of like

710
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 6: it's not just like on the top, it's kind of

711
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 6: like she actually just enjoys playing now, you know.

712
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 5: And I think Roger is the appear to me of it.

713
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 5: You know, Roger can walk off the court and be like.

714
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 4: It wasn't good exactly.

715
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: He moves around and it's like crazy shots that are

716
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: not the great. I think that's actually maybe the best example.

717
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: Like Saber like starts like charging in on people serve

718
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: like that's awesome, And I think, like I've been reflecting

719
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: on you know, what entertains me in the world, like

720
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: not just in sports, not just in tennis. If you

721
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: go to a concert and the person you're watching is

722
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: hitting all the notes like exactly, like that might not

723
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: be a great concert, Like it might be a great song,

724
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: but like you're not be like, yeah, meanwhile, we went

725
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: to like a Nickelback concert a couple of years ago,

726
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: and we had the time of our freaking lives, Like

727
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: because there's so much energy and they're like having fun

728
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: with it, making fun of themselves. I think, you know,

729
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: if you can kind of like extrapolate those lessons and

730
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: like infuse that into tennis, like maybe like a curious

731
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: two point zero where it's like some of the antics

732
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: without maybe the.

733
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 4: Clear dread of being on a tennis court. Like, I

734
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 4: think it's fun to watch someone enjoy themselves.

735
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 2: And I think technical perfection, to your point, is not

736
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: that compelling. Yeah, if you can find your way to

737
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: sort of and it's not.

738
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: Doing it for me right, Like I've been, you know,

739
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: trying really hard and to be you know, technically perfect

740
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: and work really hard and do the right things. And Okay,

741
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: I've gotten to sixty eight in the world, which is

742
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: nothing to shrug.

743
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 4: Out, but it's not where I believe I can get.

744
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: And you know, at some point, you know, the brave

745
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 1: decision is to to do something completely disruptive.

746
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 3: You're gonna get married in the fall you have you know,

747
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 3: increasing you've always been somebody who's brought in the outside

748
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 3: world to your tennis and your conception of it. You know,

749
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 3: do you do you sort of? Are there other examples

750
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 3: that you can think of, books, movies, concert.

751
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 2: Experiences where you're like, oh, this is something I enjoy.

752
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: Maybe that's something I can bring into tennis, or maybe

753
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 3: that's something I can sort of bookmark.

754
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 2: And be like, Oh, I'm gonna got back to you.

755
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: When when this starts to look like it's on a wrap.

756
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: Up, Yeah, I totally just blacked out. Former I didn't

757
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: hear half of that question, so it happens.

758
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 5: To me all the time of KEG because she excrapted.

759
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 4: Just come out of Okay, sorry, I blacked back in.

760
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: Yes, like books and movies, have been watching basic gets

761
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: your You're like so interesting. This is when I've been

762
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: I have literally the most perfect answer in that, and

763
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: now I just messed it up.

764
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 4: But we can edit. We're not we're not we're not.

765
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 5: Had cancer.

766
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've lost some brain cells along the way floating around.

767
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: I've actually been reading Shoe Doog lately, which everybody's been

768
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: telling me to read for forever.

769
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 4: And I'm like, yeah, Nike, I don't care. Nice yeah,

770
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 4: Phil night book. Yeah.

771
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: And I'm actually like, I feel like it's too profoundly

772
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 1: perhaps like shaping my attitude right.

773
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 4: Now, because his whole, like the entire book is just

774
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 4: about how every penny the man ever earned he.

775
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: Put it right back into the business to the point

776
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: where they were insolvent for like fifteen years. And this

777
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: is like the biggest sportings company in the world, bar nine.

778
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 4: And I just like had this epiphany.

779
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: I was like, I am such a penny pincher when

780
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: it comes to like what I'm doing on.

781
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 4: Tour, Like why, like you're literally not going like.

782
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: If I'm viewing myself as a business, I'm starving my

783
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: business right and I'm giving myself the absolute minimum resources.

784
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, wow, I'm so surprised that I

785
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: had to melt down and poke a racket on the

786
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 1: court when I'm staying at an Airbnb seventy two minutes

787
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: away from the site, because it's.

788
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 4: More like you know, it's more financially Yeah, And so

789
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 4: I've kind of been a examining.

790
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: Those kinds of decisions and seeing if I can knock

791
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: a swear or two loose and kind of think about

792
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: it differently, But you know, I think it plays in

793
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 1: perfectly to what I'm talking about with on court stuff

794
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: like just this hyper control needs to go.

795
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 4: I need some inspiration, you know.

796
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: That's what I need, and like whether that means, you know,

797
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: bringing a new team member on, who can you know,

798
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: inject a different perspective.

799
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 4: Love my coach right now to death.

800
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: He's been supportive and amazing through all of this, so

801
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 1: definitely keeping him on board.

802
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 4: But it's a usta setup.

803
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: I'm sharing with another player who has priority, So it's

804
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: priority one for me right now finding someone who can

805
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: help me out in the weeks that we're not together,

806
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: and you know he's fully on board with that and

807
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: helping me find someone that's sorry.

808
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 3: So you're really sort of willing to sort of look

809
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 3: at anything, be like, what's going to get me anyway

810
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 3: to my best sort of happiest place. Yeah.

811
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 6: Well, I will tell you one of the things that

812
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 6: I always said to myself early in my career was

813
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 6: if I'm making you know, because obviously being a stry

814
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 6: we fly a lot a lot, And I said to

815
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 6: myself very early on in my career, I said.

816
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 5: As long as I'm making the money.

817
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 6: When I'm making money, I'm going to fly business class

818
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 6: no matter what. I'm flying everywhere business class because if

819
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 6: you know, I can afford it, I'm going to fly

820
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 6: business gas because I don't do not want to be.

821
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 5: Doing this job and being absolutely fucking miserable every time I.

822
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: Go to an And that's the life I've been living, right,

823
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: I've literally never purchased a retail business seat in my

824
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: entire life.

825
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 6: Well, I mean it's just a little things like that,

826
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 6: you know, because it's it's and it.

827
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 5: Can and it's one match, it's one or two matches.

828
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's all taken care of her, no, I know.

829
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: And I've had people say that to me and I'm like, oh, yeah, okay,

830
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: it sounds like a.

831
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 4: Great way to lose money.

832
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: On to it, you know, And don't talk.

833
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 5: The Venus because Venus will talk you about it. Because

834
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 5: Venus is a great penny pincher.

835
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 4: She's got amount of money and there's something to be

836
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 4: said for it.

837
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: And you know, like, I think your background informs like

838
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 1: the attitude that you've had. I've tried it gotten me

839
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: a sixty eight. I don't like that number. I want

840
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: a better number, and so I'm yeah, I'm going to

841
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: invest for a couple of years. And you know, if

842
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: it doesn't kind it, it doesn't cut it. Life goes on

843
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: and there's other stuff that I can do that will

844
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: make me money in the future.

845
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, I'm lucky.

846
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 3: I have to go back to stamp and yeah, the

847
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 3: first professional player to go back to Stanford.

848
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 4: To criminal justice reform, that's what question.

849
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 5: It seems like.

850
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 3: I mean, we're talking like recidivism rates, justice system, We're

851
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 3: talking like all this stuff.

852
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 2: And what particularly about that.

853
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 4: I don't know, it's consistent.

854
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised to hear you say it.

855
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm just like really fascinated with how awful

856
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: race relations in the US still are. It's it's something

857
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: that keeps me up at night and is a problem

858
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 1: that I just think is like so unimaginably overt for

859
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: for a society that considers itself woke, Like we have

860
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: one in three African American men in jail like at

861
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: some point during their lifetime, compared to one in seventy

862
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: white men. That stats from the New Jim Crow. It's

863
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: like one of my favorite post and.

864
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 3: Also corresponds to the project I edited in the Washington

865
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 3: Post called The Black Black Men Being a Black Man

866
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 3: that I haven't It was.

867
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: From two thousand and four. It was when it was

868
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: pre Tanahase Coats.

869
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was.

870
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the case for operations.

871
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 4: I mean, yes, yeah, I'm on board.

872
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I can't stand the argument that you know,

873
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: we're in a capitalist society and everybody has like, you know,

874
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: equal access to the American dream, like some people don't

875
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 1: have the bottom run run of the latter available to them. There,

876
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: you know, disadvantage from the very beginning. And I think

877
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: disproportionnately that's the African American community especially, but also Hispanic populations.

878
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: But I think growing up in Cleveland, it was really interesting.

879
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: So I learned this later in life. But apparently Shaker Heights,

880
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 1: which is where I grew up, they were like really

881
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: progressive right after integration, and so they wanted to do

882
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 1: like basically a citywide social experiment by drawing city lines

883
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: that were almost exactly half white and half black. Interesting

884
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: and I never knew that, but I had intuitate that

885
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: because I grew up in a society that felt very

886
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: half in half and like it was honestly in my opinion.

887
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: I was also very young, so I hadn't had time

888
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: to grow up into some.

889
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 4: Of the bullshit that occurs later in life. But it

890
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 4: was almost.

891
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: Utopian in a way, like I didn't feel that over

892
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: sense of racism that when I moved out to La

893
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: I was kind of like, whoa, everybody's really segregated and

894
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: nobody really overlaps, and I don't know, it was really

895
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: strange for me. So I think that's some of where

896
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: it came from.

897
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 3: So my passion idea that you have you've seen this

898
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 3: like more identic or slightly better or I just like couldn't.

899
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: Conceive of the fact that our society was still that

900
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: racist because I was I was.

901
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 4: Just like, yeah, okay, like this is how life is.

902
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: And then you get older and I moved into a

903
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: different place that had different values and I was like, wow,

904
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: like yeah, this is crazy.

905
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 2: Well a lot of it is sort of a vision failure.

906
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 3: I grew up in Montreal, which is, you know, obviously

907
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 3: very very close to the States, but we property is

908
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 3: not racialized in Canada, not really. I'm generalizing greatly, but

909
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 3: like the social stratification in Quebec is based on language, right,

910
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 3: And so all of a sudden I.

911
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 2: Moved to Atlanta, and then everything.

912
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 3: That you describe segregation in terms of institutionalized sort of

913
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 3: you know, overt covert descriptions of race and integration, it

914
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 3: just was not happening in a way that I was like, Oh,

915
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 3: this is so interesting. You go into any kind of

916
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 3: like janitorial job or McDonald's or any sort of lower

917
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 3: sort of rum it's done by the Kebaquah, right, So

918
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 3: very similar in the sense that like it's not race based,

919
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 3: because Canada is you know, it's not a slave country, right,

920
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 3: So all of a sudden, being thrown into a place

921
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 3: where you see the difference, you see the difference because

922
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 3: and you maybe can't explain it until you're older, but

923
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 3: to me, it sounds like it comes from like a

924
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 3: very deep place in your you know, obviously early childhood experiences.

925
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, And honestly, I feel weird sometimes because I so

926
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: deeply want to be an advocate for that cause, but

927
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 1: I also don't want to, like, like, I feel strange

928
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: sometimes as a white woman being like, oh, but we

929
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: need to, But I think that's I really don't want

930
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: to abolt or you don't want to sort of, Yeah,

931
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to appear like I'm speaking on behalf

932
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: of someone, right, So I take it upon myself to

933
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: be troubled by it and like look into ways that

934
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: I can like, you know, be hands on in like

935
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: the solutions for that, without like trying to position myself

936
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: as anyone who like, you know, I don't know, but yeah,

937
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: it's not, it's not it's not it's not my experience.

938
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: It's not my experience. But I can, like I want

939
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 1: to say, like, I can see this.

940
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 5: But it's to address it.

941
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 4: But it's a hard balance to strike for me.

942
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: And I've had an agents in the past say like, oh,

943
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 1: you should really stick to feminist topics because you're a girl,

944
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, honestly, you're not wrong, Like there

945
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: is a lot of credence to that, my voice, ability, right,

946
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: incredibility exactly.

947
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 5: I think you should. I should. I think you look

948
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 5: at it from the standpoint of a quality.

949
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 6: Period in a story, right, marginalized and that yeah, you know,

950
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 6: you know, it's just part of society, and I think

951
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 6: ideally yes, but but but I would suspect also to

952
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 6: that the African American population need people like you it's

953
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 6: just like it's like I as a somebody fighting for

954
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 6: lgbt Q plus right need straight allies.

955
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 5: It's the same thing.

956
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's also a really specific kind of

957
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 3: allyship that comes with listening more than talking and sort

958
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 3: of put precision yourself in a position to say, okay,

959
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 3: and that's kind of what I'm saying.

960
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put myself in.

961
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get educated, I'm gonna put myself in a situation,

962
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 3: right I can actually be an advocate and then I'll

963
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 3: do a lot of listening.

964
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 1: And Yeah, and one of the things I've been examining lately,

965
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: I think any activists in that space will tell you, like,

966
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: one of the most important things you can do as

967
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: someone from like a crimin edged background is just trying

968
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,720
Speaker 1: to check your other privileged friends when you're in a room.

969
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 4: Full of them.

970
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, because I I find it very rare

971
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: that white people have something racist to say in front

972
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: of black people, but little things slip through the cracks

973
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: all the time when you're in a room full of

974
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: white people. So that's been something that I've been trying

975
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: to like push myself more to to you know, call

976
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 1: that out and not let that be something that like flies,

977
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: you know, at least around me and you know, just

978
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: little things like that. But down the road, like something

979
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: working in criminal justice perform is something that like massively

980
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: interests me.

981
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 4: I think it's like one of the biggest problems.

982
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 1: We have in the United States. I think it's completely underfunded.

983
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's wild.

984
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: We're putting people in jail for a weed possession. Like

985
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: who even cares is fucking legal half of the places now?

986
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 3: So yeah, okay, good, Well, I see the makings of

987
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,839
Speaker 3: Aaron Brockovich sort of like chapter three.

988
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, could be a political career.

989
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure. There's so many options. I literally

990
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: changed my mind daily.

991
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 6: So but it's also another reason to go to college

992
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 6: because now you have, you know, two years of Stanford

993
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 6: under your belt.

994
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 5: You can go back three for the very year three.

995
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 6: So I mean, which is even better, right, because there's

996
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 6: so many more things that you can do.

997
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 5: And I think that's so.

998
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 4: Still less than one degree less.

999
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 2: Than yes, well, I plan to go back, I say,

1000
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: I mean part of your twenties anyway, in any shape

1001
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 2: or form.

1002
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 3: The fact that you've already had a successful career and

1003
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 3: it continues in one realm, Like most of your twenties

1004
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 3: is just being like, who the fuck am I and

1005
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 3: what am I fucking doing? Yeah? Most of I'm immediate,

1006
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 3: Like do I want to write books? It's it's everybody

1007
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 3: Eric Erickson on social psycho social development.

1008
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 2: That's exactly what we don't.

1009
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 5: We don't even.

1010
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 4: Identity for them until we're thirty.

1011
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you got like four years, dude.

1012
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well I'm taking all of that time because I

1013
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: have no decisions made and.

1014
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 6: Now you realize that every day is really important and

1015
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 6: there's no point in rushing anything.

1016
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, and have fun with it.

1017
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: Got I think we've done a lot of really good

1018
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 2: worker today. Yeah, I think we had. We got chapter

1019
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 2: two to three and maybe beyond.

1020
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 6: We'll come back once, you you know, back there doing

1021
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 6: that law school degree and deciding on what you're doing.

1022
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: Now.

1023
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 6: Hey, hey, I had a really good friend, Carrie Cunningham

1024
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 6: was her name, and she was she went back was

1025
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 6: Frank thirty something in the world, went back to Michigan.

1026
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 6: Did her quit playing tennis at like twenty one twenty

1027
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 6: two because she was uber smart and should not have

1028
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 6: been playing tennis because she was just too smart to

1029
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 6: be playing tennis.

1030
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 2: That's like me.

1031
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 5: That's why Yeah, like you, and clearly.

1032
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 6: That's why I played Tells almost forty but she went

1033
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 6: back and got her undergrad and it was now one

1034
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 6: of the leading endocinsurgents in the country.

1035
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 4: Wow. So you know that's inspiring.

1036
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I means there is a huge afterlife after tennis.

1037
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 2: And listen magazine anytime you're on a rate.

1038
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, really time, I know I need to, I will,

1039
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 4: I will eventually.

1040
00:47:58,160 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: No pressure, we'll think any more.

1041
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 5: Thanks Nicole. Hey, we're going to see you on the

1042
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 5: Hotcook covered.

1043
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 3: Everything and that's it for this episode of the Racket

1044
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:10,240
Speaker 3: Magazine podcast.

1045
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.

1046
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 3: Our host is Renee Stubbs. Our co host and producer

1047
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 3: is me Caitlin Thompson. Music by internationally renowned DJ Stretch Armstrong.

1048
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 3: Thanks to Tim Or Jerry and the team at ACAST.

1049
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 4: Find us at racketmag dot com, slash podcast

1050
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,959
Speaker 3: And subscribe to us at any of your favorite podcatchers.