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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph

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Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. She had the world at her feet.

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Speaker 1: She had what so many people, particularly women, wish for.

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Speaker 1: She was literally a beauty queen, beautiful on the outside

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Speaker 1: and on the inside, and she was a double threat.

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Speaker 1: She was brainy, on track to get her pH d.

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Speaker 1: And then suddenly, out of the blue, she's gone. Nobody

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Speaker 1: knows what happened. Nobody, no ransom note, no clues, no nothing,

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Speaker 1: just gone. And I will never forget as long as

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Speaker 1: I live. Meeting her mother and her mom walked me

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Speaker 1: through her home and it looked, as I always say,

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Speaker 1: like a little jewelry box on the inside, just absolutely perfect.

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Speaker 1: You know. It reminded me a little bit of when

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Speaker 1: I flipped through my fiancee's letters that he wrote me

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Speaker 1: before he was murdered. And it's a dangerous place to

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Speaker 1: go because sometimes you can't get back out of it.

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Speaker 1: But the longing in the mom's voice, the wistfulness, was

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Speaker 1: something I'll never forget. Of course, I'm talking about Tara Grinstead.

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. We all know that Tara Grinstead High

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Speaker 1: School teacher goes to a cookout, like a barbecue pool

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Speaker 1: type party with a lot of other teachers, the principal

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Speaker 1: people from the community in her small town of Oscilla,

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Speaker 1: not too far from where I grew up, where there's

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Speaker 1: nothing but tall pine trees and soybean fields as far

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Speaker 1: as the eye could see. She goes home that night

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Speaker 1: and she's never seen again, dead or alive. Joining me

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Speaker 1: right now, Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of l A

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Speaker 1: cold case investigator, director of the Cold Case Institute, Cheryl McCullum,

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories reporter John Limley, and special guests. Joining us

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Speaker 1: is Tara Grinstead's best friend, Maria Harbor. Maria, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us along with all my other guests.

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Speaker 1: When you talked about Tara Grinstead, what effect does that

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Speaker 1: have on you, Well, it's just a lot of years

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Speaker 1: of missing her and um, just remember the good things

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Speaker 1: that happened, and um, it's just seen a lot of

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Speaker 1: healing and trying to recover from from what happened twelve

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Speaker 1: years ago. But um, as you know, UM, six six

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Speaker 1: or eight months ago, I guess we had the biggest

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Speaker 1: break ever. UM, so it's been really an emotional rollercoaster

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Speaker 1: since then. You know, I'm still grieving for my dad

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Speaker 1: and still believe it or not grieving for my fiancee,

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Speaker 1: which was so many years ago, and you know, having

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Speaker 1: the twins. I think it was the biggest blessing in

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Speaker 1: my life because up until then I would really not

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Speaker 1: let myself be happy. I would not be in love,

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Speaker 1: I would not fully enjoy anything. I always felt guilty

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Speaker 1: about being happy, and so I would bury myself in

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Speaker 1: one murder case after the next after the next. Is

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Speaker 1: how I lived. I lived for putting bad guys behind bars.

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Speaker 1: You remember those days, Sheryl McCollum, when you and I

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Speaker 1: were in the trenches together, Nathy. Not only do I

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Speaker 1: remember those days, I can remember you spreading the files out.

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Speaker 1: And one of my strongest memories when smet you is

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Speaker 1: you would spread those files out and you would pray

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Speaker 1: over the files. And that was one of those things

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Speaker 1: that always has resonated with me is how deep your

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Speaker 1: conviction was. Well, you just made me have to take

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Speaker 1: out my handkerchief. I also remember going in court and

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Speaker 1: some judges had then switched to not using a bible

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Speaker 1: to swear in the witnesses, so of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: I always had my own with me, so I just

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Speaker 1: whip it out and take it up there. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: every time I talked to you, bring up another memory.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum to Maria Woods Harbor, Maria, let's go back

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Speaker 1: in your mind two. Then the day that she went missing.

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Speaker 1: That night, what happened. Well, the last thing we knew

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Speaker 1: is that she had. Um, she had gone to the pageant,

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Speaker 1: which she had planned on going through the whole week. Um,

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Speaker 1: she had help the girls get ready for that, and

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Speaker 1: then she'd gone to the paget. After that, she went

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Speaker 1: to a party. Um, you know, no big deal. She

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Speaker 1: was leaving going home. Nobody thought anything out of the ordinary. Um,

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Speaker 1: she went home. What I thought, she probably got in

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Speaker 1: the bed and um. And then you know, so we

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Speaker 1: didn't know anything after that. No one talked to her,

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Speaker 1: saw her after that. And she was supposed to come

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Speaker 1: home the next day. So obviously we were We knew

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Speaker 1: something was going on when she didn't come home and

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Speaker 1: we couldn't get her on the phone. Okay, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: will wait, back it up, Back it up. She wasn't

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Speaker 1: at her home. When you say home, what do you

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Speaker 1: mean by that, Okay. She she lived in Oscella, which

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Speaker 1: is a very small town about fifty minutes from where

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Speaker 1: she has originally home. So when I say home, I

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Speaker 1: mean Hawkinsville because that's where we grew up, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's where her mom lived. She lived in Osceilla's. So

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Speaker 1: the next day she was coming home to see her

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Speaker 1: mom and me, and she she did that often because

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Speaker 1: she was very close to her mother, as you remember, Um,

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Speaker 1: so she was she's very you know, she watched over

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Speaker 1: her mother even even though she was fifty miles away.

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Speaker 1: And um, she was planning the whole week to come

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Speaker 1: there on that Sunday and bring her dog. And when

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Speaker 1: she didn't come, you know, we knew something was going

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Speaker 1: on in her mother and I were we're worried, but

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Speaker 1: it was it was like, well, maybe you know, there's

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Speaker 1: just something to him. She is old enough to make

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Speaker 1: her own decisions and go shopping some you know, one day,

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Speaker 1: or do something that she doesn't have to call and

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Speaker 1: tell us. So we kind of brushed off. Maybe it

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Speaker 1: was just something she had planned, you know, we didn't know.

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Speaker 1: Um that night, we definitely got more worried, and her

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Speaker 1: mother was, um, just beside herself. And worry, and um,

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Speaker 1: we just really didn't know what to do. I wish

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Speaker 1: now we had we had called the police in I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously I wish we had done things differently, but um,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, she was old enough to make

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Speaker 1: her own decisions, and we just really thought there's no

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Speaker 1: way to wrong. You know, there's just no way. You know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people don't understand it, Maria, but I

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Speaker 1: remember on Chryl again, you were with me during this too.

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Speaker 1: When I first started practice single law. You know, I

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Speaker 1: left my hometown of make and my parents lived. We

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Speaker 1: lived outside the city in a very rural farming area,

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Speaker 1: and um, every weekend for the longest time, unless I

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Speaker 1: was working on a trial from Monday, and oftentimes even then,

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Speaker 1: I would drive home to see my family. That's the

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Speaker 1: way that we were raised, and that's what I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do. I don't feel like I had to do it.

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Speaker 1: I did it because I wanted to do it. And

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Speaker 1: spend the weekend Friday, Saturday, Sunday, get up, go church,

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Speaker 1: have lunch, pack up, and go back to work. That's

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Speaker 1: just the way a lot of people are. You know,

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Speaker 1: my family is that important to you, And I get it.

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Speaker 1: You know, she doesn't come home as expected on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: and everybody's like, what what's going on? But you don't

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Speaker 1: want she's a grown woman. You don't want to call

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Speaker 1: her and go why aren't you here? But you know what,

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Speaker 1: there's that other thing Dr Bethany l a psycho analyst.

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Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, It's that thing that I have to

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Speaker 1: tell myself all the time with twins. Now, don't get crazy,

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Speaker 1: They're okay. But see that only lasts for about twenty

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Speaker 1: seconds because I immediately revert to when I need something

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Speaker 1: to happen to Keith, and I'm like, Okay, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be okay. But it wasn't okay, And you have that feeling?

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Speaker 1: What is that, Bethany? Well, you know, Nancy, I remember

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Speaker 1: that feeling when you covered this story because I was

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Speaker 1: on those shows and I remember you walking through a

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Speaker 1: terrace house with her mother, and I do remember it

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Speaker 1: looking like a little jewel box. Everything was just perfect.

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Speaker 1: And I was so new on the show at that

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Speaker 1: time that I had the same thought you're talking about

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Speaker 1: that all this is a beautiful young woman. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: she didn't show up to visit her mother, should we

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Speaker 1: all really be that alarmed. You don't want to think

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Speaker 1: that something really bad has happened. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: maybe the same reason people don't report child abuse, they

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Speaker 1: don't report runaways, they don't report crimes right away. They

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Speaker 1: don't want to stir up a hornet's nest if nothing's wrong.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to seem hysterical or like they're being

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Speaker 1: drama queens. And yet then afterwards they look back and

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Speaker 1: they say, why didn't I make a bigger deal out

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Speaker 1: of this? And then there's so much recrimination and self

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Speaker 1: doubt and really self hatred. Um, that just goes on

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Speaker 1: and on after that. So you try to thank everything

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Speaker 1: is okay, but somewhere in there there's that voice saying

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Speaker 1: it's not okay. So that afternoon with me is Tera Grin,

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Speaker 1: said's best friend Maria Harbor. Maria, that afternoon you said

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Speaker 1: to Useette what a paget or prepping people for a page,

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Speaker 1: and or what she had helped Saturday? She was helping

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Speaker 1: girls get ready. She was all in the pages, as

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Speaker 1: you know. And um, so she was helping get ready

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Speaker 1: and you know, like jewelry makers. I mean, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: she was just gorgeous tall, I mean, built like a

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Speaker 1: brick house. She was statuesque. She really carried herself with

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Speaker 1: a lot of poise. She always reminded me of of

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Speaker 1: a brunette Grace Kelly. She was very you know she

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Speaker 1: I don't know if she was like that in real life,

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Speaker 1: but she projected proper, you know, yeah, that's the way

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Speaker 1: she projected, Maria, very proper. Absolutely, yeah she did. You're right.

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Speaker 1: So that afternoon she was actually helping the girls at

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Speaker 1: a pageant and then she went what was this grill

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Speaker 1: out she went to that evening. It was with some

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Speaker 1: of her co workers. Um, you know, like I said,

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Speaker 1: it's a very small pun so in the school you know,

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Speaker 1: you think about high school has about three d kids

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Speaker 1: and it's a very very small school with the faculty

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Speaker 1: that's very tight knit. So it was a lot of

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Speaker 1: faculty members, Um, you know, just kind of had a cookout.

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Speaker 1: It was, you know, just cooking out on a Saturday night.

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Speaker 1: And so she was there because I can't remember if

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Speaker 1: the principal was there. I know, UM, there's like assistant

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Speaker 1: superintendent and you know some some bigger you know, and

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Speaker 1: people in administration. Let me say that, um, and teachers

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Speaker 1: and their wives and all, and then she went home.

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Speaker 1: Then she went home. How do you know that? Well,

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Speaker 1: we don't know that. That's the thing. After she left

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Speaker 1: that um that that cook out. We really don't know

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Speaker 1: what happened. I mean, it just it really comes down

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Speaker 1: of the speculation. Now. I I know that at some

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Speaker 1: point during the night or during the day, she had

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Speaker 1: been watching someone's dog. So she had um taken them

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Speaker 1: the dog. And I want to say that may have

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Speaker 1: been um how they established she had gotten to the house.

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Speaker 1: But either way, UM, you know her car was at home.

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Speaker 1: How how do you what tell me about the dog

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Speaker 1: and how they established it she made it to her home.

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Speaker 1: I know her car was there all muddy. Tell me

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Speaker 1: about the dog. Um she had was like taken care

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Speaker 1: of someone's dog, and it was somebody in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: Um you know as a younger boy. But she knew

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Speaker 1: the family and UM so so she had met up

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Speaker 1: with him to give him the dog back at some

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Speaker 1: point it UM. I think I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: it is just assumption, because you know, her car was

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Speaker 1: back at her home and um didn't they find the

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Speaker 1: clothes that she was wearing that night? Yes, well because

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Speaker 1: we had a picture of her that night, um, which

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Speaker 1: obviously that didn't come to a little later UM because

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Speaker 1: you know, like this was oe years ago, so we

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Speaker 1: didn't have um cameras on phones and you know, text

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Speaker 1: message in and all that kind of stuff, so we

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Speaker 1: didn't have immediately what she had had on. We just

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Speaker 1: knew about what we thought. So yeah, we did end

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Speaker 1: up signing out that she had come home and changed,

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Speaker 1: um and in her bedroom to me, was there. Obviously

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Speaker 1: she had been in the bed because it was unmade, UM,

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Speaker 1: and I know she wouldn't have had her room and

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Speaker 1: made with her with people in and out of her

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Speaker 1: house like she was gonna have it very neat and clean.

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Speaker 1: So she had gotten into the bed and um, but

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Speaker 1: we could we never found her pocket book. Her pocket

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Speaker 1: book was gone. Um. Her phone was there, but her

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Speaker 1: pocket book was was gone. And so you'll expect her

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Speaker 1: on Sunday. She on Sunday, she doesn't show up. Then

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Speaker 1: what happened, Well, Um, Monday morning, we were gonna her

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Speaker 1: mother and I was just gonna call school and you

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Speaker 1: know check on her like that. Well before I could

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Speaker 1: even do that, they all of me and said, um,

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Speaker 1: she didn't show up, we're going in the house. So

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Speaker 1: I left immediately and went down UM and met them

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Speaker 1: at the house and we went in and obviously I

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Speaker 1: couldn't find her. Wasn't she was no trace, I mean,

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Speaker 1: she was gone. What did they ask you? What type

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Speaker 1: of questions did the police first ask you? Well, Um,

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Speaker 1: immediately they started thinking that she had just run off.

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Speaker 1: You know, maybe she's shopping. Maybe shopping, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was just really kind of thrown shopping, I know, I said,

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Speaker 1: But what did she have to be at work on

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Speaker 1: Monday mornings? Oh yeah, oh yeah, and she would have

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Speaker 1: never You can't when you're a school teacher, you can't

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Speaker 1: just not show up. I mean, you know, you can't

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Speaker 1: do that. Like that's not gonna happen. And that's what

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Speaker 1: I told him. There's no way she would have just

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Speaker 1: not going to work. But I think, you know, I

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Speaker 1: said this several times, this is the best thing I

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Speaker 1: can I'm related to UM. About a week or two

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Speaker 1: before that, there was a lady who was about to

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Speaker 1: get married and she ran away and she called a

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Speaker 1: few days. I remember her, Jennifer, what was her name,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl the runaway bride. Yeah, I was just thinking about

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Speaker 1: her the other day. I'll remember her name in a minute,

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Speaker 1: go ahead. So some people thought that, but Tera wasn't. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so so that was in their mind, you know, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe she's just not wanting to be here. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, that that's not it. But immediately that's there.

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Speaker 1: You know, she would have at least called in a sub.

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Speaker 1: She would have at least called for a sub. I know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, so then when did it hit you she

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Speaker 1: really was gone. I mean, this whole idea that she

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Speaker 1: would just leave and go shopping, that doesn't even make

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Speaker 1: sense to me. It was ridiculous. I mean, they called

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Speaker 1: around to see if there was if there was any

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Speaker 1: identified someone you know, at the hospitals, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they checked that kind of thing. But you know, for

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Speaker 1: several hours, they were just convinced that she just didn't

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Speaker 1: want to be here anymore because her pocket boot was

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Speaker 1: gone and her phone was there. Let me ask you

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Speaker 1: a question, um with me as Tera Grinstead's best friend,

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Speaker 1: Maria Woods Harbor. Maria, many people have let's just say,

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Speaker 1: capitalized on Terra's disappearance and investigated it and written about it.

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot a lot of investigation has gone

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Speaker 1: on What do you make of some of the theories

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Speaker 1: out there that Tera grinstead and I just want to

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Speaker 1: put it out there. I disagree with it, and it

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Speaker 1: makes me extremely angry when people bring it up, very

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Speaker 1: angry because, in my mind, is dragging the victim, the

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Speaker 1: dead victim who endured god knows what through the mud.

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Speaker 1: Many people have speculated she was in some kind of

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Speaker 1: a sex relationship with her killers, who we now believed

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Speaker 1: to be two of her two former students at her

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Speaker 1: high school. Um that she was in a state of

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Speaker 1: mind that night where she wanted to walk on the

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Speaker 1: wild side and ended up at some bonfire out and

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Speaker 1: a pecan orchard and then things turned went went sideways. Basically,

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Speaker 1: what they're saying is because she put herself in a

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Speaker 1: bad situation. To me, that's a victim shaming. And there's

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Speaker 1: no evidence of any of that whatsoever that I know of.

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Speaker 1: Maybe somebody knows something I don't know. But what you're

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Speaker 1: her best friend, could you speak to what has been

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Speaker 1: said about Terra since her death? Well, you know, when

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Speaker 1: it happened, she was just gone. I mean we had nobody,

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Speaker 1: no note clues, nothing, and it was very very upsetting. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, over the past twelve years, there's been a

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Speaker 1: million theories about what she did and like she said,

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Speaker 1: what she did to deserve this and um, and it's

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Speaker 1: been twelve years of defending that and you can't you know,

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Speaker 1: I had to take a lot of time away from

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Speaker 1: it because it was just I constantly try to defend

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00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,159
Speaker 1: her because there's you know, it was just so silly.

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Speaker 1: Some of the stuff was just so ridiculous. But like

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Speaker 1: what oh, I mean, it was like, you know, she

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Speaker 1: had a conspiracy and that she paid these people to

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Speaker 1: come do this and she could get attention. And um,

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00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,119
Speaker 1: you know, there was one so silly that you know,

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Speaker 1: we were we that I helped her plan this getaway

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Speaker 1: and um, you know, and the reason they weren't finding

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00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,400
Speaker 1: hers because I was paid for my O. My goodness,

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Speaker 1: Really every boyfriend she had from the time she was

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Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen on up to when she was missing, I

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Speaker 1: had to tell them everything about and and they had,

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Speaker 1: you know, search and they had to and it was

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Speaker 1: so it's been so bad in the past twelve years

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Speaker 1: that anyone that was in her life has been drug

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Speaker 1: through mud and everything. It's just ridiculous. What do you

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Speaker 1: make of the theories that have been put out there

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Speaker 1: that the night she went missing, she was in a

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Speaker 1: state of mind that she wanted to go to some

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00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 1: crazy alcohol slash drug fueled bonfire out at a pecan

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Speaker 1: orchard or something to that effect. I've never heard anything

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Speaker 1: like it in my life. Well, it is, it is silly,

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Speaker 1: and it's really extremely stupid because it's such you know,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I don't believe she would do that.

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Speaker 1: She's just not like that. But even if she did,

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Speaker 1: I mean, my my thing is, who cares? You know,

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Speaker 1: The point is she's not here anymore. And um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's just like saying if if you go

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Speaker 1: to a bar, you know, and you get you know,

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00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 1: taken or keeled or whatever, then you deserve it because

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Speaker 1: you're at a bar, you know. I mean, it doesn't

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00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 1: make sense. I mean, do you really think she went

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Speaker 1: out to some party with a bunch of kids in

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Speaker 1: a pecan orchard? I mean, that's last thing I want

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Speaker 1: to do at one o'clock in the morning is go

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Speaker 1: out with some former students at a pecan orchard and

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00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 1: want them drink a kid. If you got a brain,

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00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,439
Speaker 1: you'd understand that's ridiculous. A school teacher. Ye would be

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00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: fired the next day, you know, because it was It

340
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,640
Speaker 1: would not be like you could keep that a secret.

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00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 1: I mean she would be fired like herself and her

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00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 1: in her career in that position because she worked so hard.

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00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 1: It's not like her parents paid for her college judisition.

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Speaker 1: She worked to pay that. There's no way she was

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Speaker 1: on her career way for just a night like that that.

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00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 1: There's just no way. That's stupid. Well, I'm telling you,

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Speaker 1: I I hear you, Uh, Cheryl and Dr Bethany. Even

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00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,199
Speaker 1: at the time I knew UH started on TV, I

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00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,159
Speaker 1: was still paying that monthly payment from my student loans

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Speaker 1: to get through law school, a hundred and seventy seven

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Speaker 1: dollars and eleven cents. I wrote it every every month

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Speaker 1: for ten years. I think it wasn't I can't even remember.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I was so used to paying it. I

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Speaker 1: actually won't one check extra. They sent me a refund

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Speaker 1: and I kept it. I never cashed his one hundred

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Speaker 1: seventy seven dollars and eleven cents to pay off my

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Speaker 1: law school tuision for ten years. John Limley cry Stories

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Speaker 1: contributing reporter Maria Harbor mentioned a break Finally, what is

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Speaker 1: the break. Well, let's go back to two thousand eight. Uh.

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00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: The case received renewed attention at that time with a

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Speaker 1: report on the CBS news show forty eight Hours Mystery,

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Speaker 1: which noted a similarity in the case to the disappearance

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Speaker 1: of another young woman in Orlando, Florida. UH. In connection

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Speaker 1: with that news story, police at that time revealed that

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Speaker 1: they had found d n A on a latex glove

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Speaker 1: in the front yard in Grinstead's front yard, just a

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Speaker 1: stone's throw away from her front door. Now. In February

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine, some videos surfaced on the Internet featuring

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Speaker 1: a self proclaimed serial killer who called himself the Catchme Killer.

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Speaker 1: The man in the videos details what he claims are

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Speaker 1: sixteen female l victims that he has murdered, and one

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Speaker 1: of these women, uh he sort of hints at is

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Speaker 1: Tara Grinstead. Though the man's face and voice were digitally obscured,

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Speaker 1: Police eventually determined the videos were that of twenty seven

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Speaker 1: year old Andrew Haley, and a police investigation ultimately revealed

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Speaker 1: the videos to be part of a bizarre, elaborate hoax,

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Speaker 1: and Haley was ultimately eliminated as a suspect. Then, in

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Speaker 1: two thousand eleven eleven, the Chief gb I, that's the

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Speaker 1: Georgia Bureau of Investigation investigators said that the case had

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Speaker 1: gone cold, adding that leads still come in on a

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Speaker 1: weekly basis. Then, on February twenty third, seventeen, after a

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Speaker 1: lengthy investigation, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation announced that they

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00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: had received a tip And this is the big break

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Speaker 1: that Maria was talking about that led to the arrest

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Speaker 1: of Ryan Alexander Duke for murder. About three years before

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Speaker 1: Tara's disappearance, Ryan Duke had attended Irwin County High School,

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Speaker 1: the same school where Grinstead was employed as a history teacher.

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Speaker 1: According to warrants read in court, Duke had burglarized Tara's

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Speaker 1: home and when discovered, he strangled her and removed her

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Speaker 1: body from the house. Another arrest fairly quickly after this,

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Speaker 1: on March three, seventeen, was made public in connection with

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Speaker 1: Terra's disappearance. Bow Dukes and this is Duke with an

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Speaker 1: S on the end, and there's no relation between the

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Speaker 1: Duke and the Duke's. Uh Bou Duke's, a former classmate

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Speaker 1: of Ryan Alexander Duke, was charged with attempting to conceal

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Speaker 1: a death, hindering apprehension, apprehension, and tampering with evidence. Um

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Speaker 1: At this time, terrace sister Anita Gaddis said she had

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Speaker 1: known bou Doup's family for years, but had never connected

399
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Speaker 1: him with any part of her sister's disappearance. Right now,

400
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: the investigation goes on into a former student there at

401
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: the high school where Tara Grinstead taught, and for years

402
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: police did not make the connection and there was really

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Speaker 1: no reason to. I want to pause very quickly in

404
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,959
Speaker 1: think not only our guests Tera Grinstead's best friend, Maria Harbor,

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Speaker 1: l a Psychoanlan's Dr. Bethany Marshall, John Limley, Crime Stories reporter,

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Speaker 1: and Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold Case Institute. I

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Speaker 1: want to thank our partner who is making our program

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00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: today on Syria Sex Possible. It's Legal Zoom. New Year's

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Speaker 1: your own two thousand and eighteen success story at legal

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00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: zoom dot com Now special save ings. Enter promo code

427
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: Nancy in the referral box at check out legal Zoom

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00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: where life meets legal legal zoom dot Com. A crack

429
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,719
Speaker 1: in the case of missing beauty queen Tera Grinstead Maria

430
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: Harbor with us Terra's best friend Maria. These two guys,

431
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: there's Bow Dukes and Ryan Dukes. Now they're not related

432
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: at all. I guess they knew each other from both

433
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: living in the small town. But the alleged killer is

434
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: Ryan Dukes. And then you've got the friend. The hanger

435
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: on Bo Dukes is that do I have them right,

436
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: John Limley. One has an S and one does not.

437
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: Ryan Alexander Duke with no S and then bow Uh

438
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: Dukes with an S. Yeah. My question is Ryan Duke

439
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: is the one suspect like actually killing her? And then

440
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,239
Speaker 1: you've got the bow. All right, Maria Harbor, Let's go

441
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: back to the night she goes missing. How was her

442
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: mother reacting? What was her mother's belief when she finds

443
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: out Tara didn't show up for work on Monday. First

444
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: of all, she didn't show up to church on Sunday,

445
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: which was completely out of character. But then on Monday

446
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: when she didn't show up to work, what happened? Her

447
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 1: mother actually wanted to say at her home in Hawkinsville

448
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: by the phone, because UM, she knew that if if

449
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: Terry get to a phone where she could call her

450
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: and UM, and she knew that she knew the number,

451
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: and so she felt comfortable just waiting there. And I left,

452
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: and UM immediately obviously went to Oceila and just kept

453
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: her updated. But she um was destroyed. I mean she

454
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 1: was a basket case. I mean she she she was

455
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: worried to death, as you can imagine as a mother. UM,

456
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: and she just knew. It was completely out of character

457
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: for her not to be in touch with her. What

458
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: did you do? You said, you went to Osilla, the

459
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: city and started looking. Where did you go? What did

460
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: you find out? Um? We obviously went to the police station,

461
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: UM and taught with them, and you know, I started

462
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: calling people off her phone that I knew. UM, you know,

463
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: I called. I don't know how many people I called,

464
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: but I took and and called her. Um. Because at

465
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: that time, they didn't take the phone or anything. I mean,

466
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: nothing was really bagged for evidence or I mean, nothing

467
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: was off limits. It wasn't like they taped off the

468
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: crime scene from the very beginning. I mean I walked around,

469
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: you know, checked on the cat and dog. I mean,

470
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,719
Speaker 1: it wasn't like they wouldn't let us in there. I

471
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: was in there with her phone, looking at her jewelry

472
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: and stuff to see if anything was missing. UM. So

473
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: when when we couldn't get anybody that had seen her

474
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: talked to her and we got to the police station, UM,

475
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: things got a little you know, more real, I guess

476
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: with them and they called in the g D. I

477
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: for hell, okay, wait wait wait wait wait, let me

478
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: back in. It just a moment, Alan Duke is joining

479
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: me my partner here on serious x Alan. A lot

480
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: has been made that the police, the g b I,

481
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: dropped the ball. I don't necessarily know that that's true.

482
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: What I'm hearing from Maria is it didn't seem a

483
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: lot anyone. Well, the authorities believed there was any foul play,

484
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: but that the crime scene was just wide open. What

485
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: do you know, well, you know it is. It is

486
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: a small town, and so they don't have a big

487
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: homicide investigation unit, but they work quick apparently to call

488
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: him the g b I. You gotta realize the gb

489
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: I did such a thorough investigation of this. This is

490
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: historically the largest case file in Georgia history. Now, you

491
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: and I have looked at so many missing women and

492
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: the big frustration is the police don't immediately get on

493
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: it and treat it as a serious, potentially criminal case.

494
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: And this one apparently they did a little bit quicker

495
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: than we normally see. So it's hard default them. But

496
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: it was a small town. I'm just trying to said,

497
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: naturally am prior to defend the police from having them

498
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: as witnesses and and seeking justice with them for so

499
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: long to Sheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Institute.

500
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: I'd like you to weigh in on this because they've

501
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: really got a black eye on this. Hey maybe it's deserved,

502
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: maybe it's not. I just want to know the truth.

503
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: What what do you think, Sheryl McCollum. Well, Nancy, as

504
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: soon as the sheriff was even called, he drove over

505
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: to her, you know, her home personally and walked around

506
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: and didn't see any broken windows, no furce entry. And

507
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: at this time, again even her mom and best friend

508
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: were not sure anything had happened. They just knew she

509
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: wasn't calling them back. So you know, they went into

510
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: this correctly, saying, Okay, we're gonna go check it out

511
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: and if there's no signs of any criminal activity, then

512
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna drop back and see if she shows up

513
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: on Monday. When that did not happen, when she did

514
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: not show up for school, everything changed in everybody's mind.

515
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: And and the g B I mean again to Alan's Pulley.

516
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: It is the largest case file in Georgian history. But

517
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: they interviewed over a hundred people. They went to her colleges,

518
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: they went to her school, they talked to past boyfriends,

519
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: they talked to past students. So you're talking about somebody that, yes,

520
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: is a beauty queen. She is gorgeous, she is also

521
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 1: very bright. Well what that means for police when she

522
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: goes on to that college campus for her masters and

523
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: then for her six year um, more people know her

524
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: than she knows, if that makes sense. She off so

525
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: like even me with with my kids, they're they're all

526
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: in sports and they're in different activities and music. More

527
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: people know me as her and Caroline's mom that I

528
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: don't even know these people, but they know my children.

529
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: So Harold would get a lot of attention. A lot

530
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: of people knew her. So the subspect Pool, spreaghett O,

531
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: syl will be in a small town. There were literally

532
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people they had to

533
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: go through. They did a stellar job and when you

534
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: listen to them tell you tips were coming in weekly.

535
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: This was never a case that was on the shelf. Ever,

536
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: and you're talking about everybody from the sheriff in Tipton, Hawkinsville, policy,

537
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: the g B i Oscilla, everybody was working in this case. Everybody,

538
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure that I go along with everyone

539
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: trashing the cops on this. Now, when we hear, as

540
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: Maria has truly and accurately portrayed it, that the crime

541
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: scene was wide open, people are walking in and out

542
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: at that time. I don't I don't think that they,

543
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: the police, and I may be talking out of school here,

544
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: I don't think they really considered it to be a

545
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: legitimate crime, Senior. They just knew she hadn't called home, right,

546
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: and we're not about to Nancy. It was ahead right,

547
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: It was a welfare check. It wasn't a crime scene.

548
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: So then what happens? What did you said? You went,

549
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: you checked her jewelry, Maria, you took care of the

550
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: cat and dog. What if anything did you notice? I

551
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: did notice the lamp, UM and the alarm clock that

552
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: was underneath her bed, her lamp that she used to

553
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: Um just let her neighbors that were older and um

554
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: let them know that she was home and okay, was

555
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: broken and it wouldn't turn on. I didn't, but it

556
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: was sitting up like it was fixed. So I don't

557
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: even know how I remember seeing it that was broke,

558
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: but I thought that was definitely odd, um because it

559
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: would not work. And then her, like I said, her

560
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: alarm clock was under her bed, still plugged up. I

561
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: thought that was very strange. Um, so that was the

562
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: only two things that I saw that were even out

563
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: of place at her home and in near right. I mean,

564
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: it did not look like a calm scene like I

565
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: would think, you know, or I thought, I really like

566
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: this if it was definitely a crime. I don't fault

567
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: the police at all. I just, you know, I wish

568
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: we had done things differently, and I'm sure they feel

569
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: the same way too, So I want to go to

570
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: John Limley on is what I understand was the evidence

571
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: at her home is Maria has pointed out she saw

572
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: a lamp askew. Now to many people that would not

573
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: mean anything, but to Tara Grinstead and everybody on the

574
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: program right now, if you come in to our house

575
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: and you see a lamp turned over and crooked, E

576
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: there's something wrong, okay, because I can't leave with that

577
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: just laying there like that. I gotta fix that, Okay.

578
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's some kind of O C D thing,

579
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: right Bethany Dr Bethany Marshall joining me out of l A. Well,

580
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: I'm afraid I have the same problem, so I can't

581
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: help you there, but but absolutely go ahead. Well that

582
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: the house was really spotless. I remember looking at it,

583
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: other than the lamp and the clock under the bed,

584
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 1: it was really so well put together, and her life

585
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: was put together. I mean, not only was she a

586
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: beauty queen, but she mentored young women, and so there

587
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: was this sense of goodwill in her life. You know,

588
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: I think of my my mythology about beauty pageants as

589
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: women being backbiting and being envious of each other, and

590
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: that was not true. If Tera Grins did. She loved

591
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: her students, She loved these young women she mentored. So

592
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: there was a sense of her home being so wholesome

593
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: and her life being so wholesome. It was hard to

594
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: imagine that anything bad could have happened to her. So

595
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: you noticed that immediately. But there were other clues, Cheryl McCullum.

596
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: There wasn't there a broken necklace of pearls on the floor,

597
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: and actually one of the bed posts were broken. What

598
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: was broken? Cheryl, right, absolutely, But the biggest piece of

599
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: evidence to me should have been the latex glove outside. Um.

600
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: Once you have that, it should have been roped off

601
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: and everybody should have been brought out of there. And

602
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: then the second thing that resonated with me was in

603
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: her car. Her car was harked, but the driver's seat

604
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: was pushed all the way back. And Aryl was small,

605
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: I mean, she was not a you know that tall

606
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 1: that she would have had her seat on the way back.

607
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: So that to me was in thinking of that somebody

608
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: else drove that car back. Um. And again at that

609
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: point there could have been one person, It could have

610
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: been two people. But you certainly at that point know

611
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: that you have a crime scene. What about her car, Maria,

612
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: wasn't it? Was it a white car and it's perfectly pristine. Oh? Yes,

613
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 1: it was a white three hucker, Yeah it was. She

614
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: always kept it clean. She was very much closs about

615
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: her car and her home, but especially her car. And

616
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: I will say that as soon as as soon as

617
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: I saw the glove, they did pick it up and

618
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: put it in the bag. Was it a latex glove

619
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: like eat the doctors use or was it a latex

620
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: glove like you used to wash dishes? Oh? No, it

621
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: was one like a doctor. So to Cheryl McCullum, director

622
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Institute, what do what do police

623
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 1: believe happened? The evening Terence goes missing, and how did

624
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: the case finally crack? Well, the case finally cracked because

625
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: a lady came forward, a Brooke Sheridan, and she said

626
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: that her boyfriend bo Do confessed to her that his

627
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 1: friend Ryan Duke killed Para and they even knew where

628
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: she was and her body was recovered and so that

629
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, it was pretty solidified at that point that

630
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: you know, Bruke knew what she was talking about and

631
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: who was Now when you say her body was recovered,

632
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: mm hmm. Has there have been a lot of conflicting

633
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: reports on that. Cheryl McCullum correct. One report says that

634
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: she was actually set on fire and then buried, So

635
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 1: you know that'll have to come out. There are complete

636
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: during reports, but that will come out. But um, enough

637
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: was put together and the pieces were clear that there

638
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: have been two a rest made. So here's what to me,

639
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: the the issue is that's gonna really be a connecting

640
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: of these puzzle pieces is that Glove and the g

641
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: b I did a brilliant job in that inside that

642
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: late takes glove, you had the possibility of two types

643
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: of evidence fingerprints and DNA. So what they did was

644
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: they clipped off the tips of the fingertips of the

645
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: glove to get the finger prints. Then they swabbed the

646
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: inside palm to get the DNA. So there's partial DNA

647
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: and their singer prints. So it's either gonna Matt Boduke

648
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 1: or Ryan Duke. And there you go. What do we know, uh,

649
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 1: John Limley, about these two guys? One of them, Uh,

650
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 1: Ryan Alexander Duke was as I had mentioned, he had

651
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: attended Irwin County High School, the same high school where

652
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: Terror was employed as a teacher. And according to the

653
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: warrants read in court, uh Duke had been quite familiar

654
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: with with Tara Um had had been had visited her

655
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: on occasions. But this particular night, they state that Duke

656
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: burglarized Grinstead's home and when he discovered, they surmised that

657
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: he strangled her and removed her body from the house.

658
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: Now in August seventeen, UH, this is following the February

659
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: three um arrest of Ryan Alexander Duke. In August of seen,

660
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: a grand jury filed four new charges against bow Dukes,

661
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: two counts of making false statements, one count of hindering

662
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: apprehension of a criminal, and one count of concealing the

663
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: death of another. These additional charges are based on a

664
00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 1: Wilcox County indictment stating that bow Dukes lied to a

665
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: gb I official who questioned him in concerning the disappearance

666
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: of Terra. Back to Maria Harbor, Terra's best friend, Maria,

667
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: when you learned that these guys had been arrested? How

668
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: how did you find out and what was your first thought? Um,

669
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: I had been told years and years and so that

670
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: when they made an arrest, the gb I would it

671
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: was something that was substantial. I mean, it would be

672
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: a major break when there was an arrest. So immediately

673
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: when I found out, um, that morning, UM, I knew

674
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 1: it was big, but it was like almost like excited

675
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: because I was happy that's something. But then I knew, well,

676
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: if that's what it is, and there's arrest made, you know, converted,

677
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 1: and there was absolutely no hope, you know. I mean,

678
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: it was just a I knew she was dead then.

679
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: I know that sounds silly to some people because everybody said,

680
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: well she was you know, we knew she was dead,

681
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: but I didn't know. I mean, I was still holding

682
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 1: now a little hope that maybe, you know, just something

683
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: I don't know what, but um, that was a definitive moment.

684
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: So I guess I was UM anxious to find out,

685
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, thankful that they've gotten some closure, I guess,

686
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: or some you know, maybe we can get some justice.

687
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it was just going through

688
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: all those emotions again, what do you know about these guys?

689
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: Does she know them? Was she friends with them? Does

690
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: she mentor them? Or she just a teacher in the school.

691
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,439
Speaker 1: Did they even take classes with her? Um? Yeah, she did.

692
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: Um teach Ryan, I know for sure. And Bo is

693
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: from a family that's known in a Silla. And like

694
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: I said, Osilla is so small that it's not unlikely

695
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: that you know everybody in the town. And um, the

696
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: school is very small, so you know the kids, you

697
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: teach them, and you could even teach them one or

698
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: two times in their high school career. So her knowing

699
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: them was was definitely you know, a possibility a matter

700
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: of fact. Um, I think from the very beginning I

701
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: knew that, you know, it just felt like it was

702
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: somebody that she knew because Oscila is very small and

703
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: it would be hard for you not to know, um

704
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: everyone there and and know their lifestyle enough to everyone

705
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: and know their lifestyle. What do we know about these

706
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: two bow and Ryan Dukes? What I know? You know,

707
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: it's just what I've been told. You know that that's

708
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: just by their friends and you know, people that are

709
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: that know them very well. It's just that they were,

710
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 1: um obviously both on drugs and had had a rough

711
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: you know a few years after high school. Um. You know,

712
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: I don't know as far as that. I don't know

713
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: what she knew about them. Um. I do believe she

714
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: would have recognized um, Ryan if she if he you know,

715
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: was breaking in her home or whatever, she would have

716
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: recognized who it was. And you know that My theory

717
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: is that's why he killed hers, because she would have recognized.

718
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: What do you believe? What if the police led you

719
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: to believe Maria Harbor? First of all, have they told

720
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: you or anybody that you know of that they definitely

721
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 1: have found a body? No, I know, not a body.

722
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 1: I do. I do. I do believe there's been some

723
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: substantial you know, part of her or maybe something that

724
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: you know there. I do believe that they have found

725
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: at the end peak in Orchard that they were searching. Um. Now,

726
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 1: I do I believe it's a body. No, I don't

727
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: I think that, um that they destroyed her, you know,

728
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: for the most hearts back to Dr Bethany Marshall psycho

729
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: Alice joining us out of l A. I mean, I

730
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: would never have dreamed of going, first of all, approaching

731
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 1: at one of my teachers outside of school in high school.

732
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: I mean, if I were to even see them at

733
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: the grocery store them all or something, I'd probably go, hey,

734
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: there's miss Norman or whatever. I would probably wouldn't even

735
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: say anything to them. But the thought of going to

736
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: the home to burglarize the teacher's home, it's so strange.

737
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: There's something about this story that still does not make

738
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: sense to me. I think we a lot of details

739
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 1: are going to come out because my thought is that

740
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 1: either these young men were fixated with her in some

741
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 1: a strange pathological romantic sexual way and went to kill her,

742
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: but then after the commission of the crime, made up

743
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: a story about burglarizing the house, or as Maria mentioned,

744
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: that these young men were on drugs, maybe meth amphetamine.

745
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: And one of the things we see with meth crimes

746
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: is that there's always an overkill effect, so that you know,

747
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: a meth head might go in and try to steal

748
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: something small in order to procure more drugs. But because

749
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: of the nature of the crime and what that does

750
00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: to their mental states, the the burglary, the crime aim,

751
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: the UH, the aggression that goes into the crime is

752
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,439
Speaker 1: way out of proportion to the situation. So it's either

753
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 1: like a stocking sex crime type of a situation or

754
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: very much of an overkill as a part of a

755
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: burglary in order to procure drugs. I think it may

756
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: have started as an overkill UH to Maria Harbor because

757
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 1: they were breaking in to steal and then she comes

758
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: home from that party, Maria, Well, I feel like she

759
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: was in the house and heard him, heard Ryan in

760
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: the house and got up in a and you know,

761
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: obviously called him like an act. And and maybe this

762
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: story is why do you say that? Well, I've been

763
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: led to believe, you know, his story is similar to

764
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: that now, you know, you know, maybe it's just in

765
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: my mind because it's a less um. I don't know

766
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: if that's the word less severe, less dramatic, less um,

767
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: you know, detailed way that um. You know, I'm sure

768
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: what we're going by. That's what he says. You know,

769
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: he can say anything he wants to at this point,

770
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: and we don't know, but I would I feel like

771
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: it was mainly because Okay, I know this woman. I

772
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: know she lives alone, I know she's single. Um, she

773
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: has a job. You know, maybe you know that was

774
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: their way of his way of finding Okay, that may

775
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,240
Speaker 1: be an easy target, that maybe an easy robbery. And

776
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: so we went in her home, you know, was going

777
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 1: through her pocketbook and she approached him and just you know,

778
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: he saw no way out it sup to kill her.

779
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: What have you been led to believe? Have they given statements? Um,

780
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: it's more just you know, um, and they said details

781
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: if that makes sense? Um, no, what do you mean?

782
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: Just like, uh, I've gotten I guess what the thing

783
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: is is, I've kind of gotten speculations and parts of

784
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: you know, obviously they can't tell you exactly what they said,

785
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: but I've just been led to believe that that was

786
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: what he said alleged we happened. But you know, like

787
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: I said, this is this is coming from him and

788
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: what he's told other people. So is he's not told

789
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: me that. I've not taught to him. I wish I could,

790
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: but um, you know I think that that's that that's

791
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: pretty much what happened. But like there again, I mean,

792
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: we're just gonna have to go by what this killer said.

793
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: And you know he's a murder and killer, and so

794
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,919
Speaker 1: how do you really know what happened? So what you're

795
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 1: allowed to believe is they she had gotten in bed

796
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,919
Speaker 1: to go to bed, and then she realized they were

797
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 1: in her house. Yes, I Um, when I went in

798
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: her room, her bed was unmade. And like I said,

799
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: with people there at her home that night, she should

800
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 1: have never had the bed unmade. So my theory from

801
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,720
Speaker 1: the very beginning was she got home, got into bed,

802
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: and then something made her get up, either leave on

803
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: her own or you know, somebody took her. Now, the

804
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: kitchen and her room her house is very small, but

805
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: there was nothing out of you know, other than that

806
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: that I saw, Like it was clear to the eye

807
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: except for in her bedroom. So um, you know, I

808
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: I he hasn't said this and I haven't been told this,

809
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: but you know, my fear is that he, you know,

810
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: took took advantage of her sexually, and because that was

811
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 1: her biggest fear. Um, you know, when we were younger

812
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 1: and even in our twenties, that was the biggest thing.

813
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: You know, she was afraid that somebody would rape her,

814
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: and you know, so obviously prayed that that did not happen.

815
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: But um, you know, I don't know, Well, how does

816
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: a pecan orchard, How does the pecan orchard factor into this, Maria. Well,

817
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: there's millions of peak in um orchards in Osceilla in

818
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: the surrounding counties. I mean that's a big you know,

819
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: that's a big crop in in South Georgia. So, um,

820
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: you know there was million We even searched millions of them,

821
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: I mean millions of them. And um, I don't even

822
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: know how much land we searched. That lots and lots

823
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: of pecan orchards. But um, that was family land for Bose,

824
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: is what I've been told. So I guess, um Ryan's

825
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: Ryan took her there, and you know Bou supposedly met

826
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 1: her medi him with her there and they both took

827
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 1: care of her body. But it was bo land. Nancy,

828
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: if I could quickly interject, we've been talking about how

829
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: much speculation there is over this case in recent months.

830
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: It was just in this past October that the Georgia

831
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: Supreme Court actually heard arguments from mainly the media about

832
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: a sweeping gag order that had been issued in the

833
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 1: murder of Terra. Five days after beau Duke's arrest, Irwin

834
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,399
Speaker 1: County Superior Court Judge Melanie Cross issued that gag order,

835
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: prohibiting prosecutors, defense attorneys, family of both the victim and defendant,

836
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: and all law enforcement involved in the case from speaking

837
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: to the media. She narrowed that a bit to prosecutors,

838
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: defense attorneys, and law enforcement associated with the case. We

839
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: have been told her body has been burned. What she

840
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: endured before her death or the mode of death, we

841
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: do not know. And of course we've heard all these

842
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: grand stories Dr Bethany Marshall about the vast pecan orchards,

843
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 1: and it brings into mine this huge estate. Well, let

844
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: me tell you something, Dr Bethany. My grandmother, Lucy had

845
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,919
Speaker 1: a pecan orchard. Her house sat right in the middle

846
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: of it. And what that meant was that every day

847
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: after school, you know, we would go out there and

848
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: peak pecans and put them in plastic bags for her

849
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: to sell them. Okay, so it's not some you know,

850
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: multimillion dollar operation. It's like you're it's a hard scrabble

851
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: way to make a living. Is what it can be.

852
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: So I don't know how wealthy or influential these families were,

853
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: but I know that they had lived in the town

854
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: for a long time. It went back several generations, and

855
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: and that can factor into an investigation. Bethany, Yes, and

856
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: I remember all the footage of the pecan orchards. I

857
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: remember the pictures of um the so called party that

858
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: went on in this huge bonfire, and this idea that

859
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: these vast orchards went on and on and there were

860
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: hundreds of young people gathering and partying, and that somehow

861
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,359
Speaker 1: Tara Grinstead was a part of all this, and and

862
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: it made sort of the party aspect and the orchards

863
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 1: and this big bacchanalia seemed like larger than life, like

864
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: that that this party atmosphere had taken over the town,

865
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: which is so different from what you're describing, which is

866
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 1: families who have lived there for generations, a very small home.

867
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: Maria's describing everything very pristine, very neat, and the sad,

868
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: sad tale of two young men on drugs who probably

869
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: Nancy they didn't go in to steal a big screen

870
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: TV or thousands of dollars in cash. Sadly, they probably

871
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: wanted like a clock or a ten dollar bill or

872
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: something really small to feel their drug habit. And then

873
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 1: all of this came from that. And Nancy, as you know,

874
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: it's really hard to kill somebody. It's not like it

875
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 1: just happens as if by accident because somebody walks into

876
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,359
Speaker 1: the kitchen while you're taking the silverware. I mean, this

877
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: was a heinous, heinous crime where something really horrible was

878
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: perpetrated on Terra. And I think that's what we have

879
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: to remember that there was extraordinary suffering, and the suffering

880
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: was for something so small, it was to fuel a

881
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: drug habit. And Um, I hope more details come out

882
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: so we know what happened to her. But you know,

883
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: when Maria says that one of her worst fears was

884
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 1: being raped, it makes me so sad to think of,

885
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, possibly these fears being realized. And you know,

886
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: what happened may have happened the hours before her death. Um,

887
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: such a beautiful young woman, mentoring other young women, having

888
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: a wholesome life, turning her light on so her elderly

889
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 1: neighbors would knew that she got home at night, and

890
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: then it all all ended up like this. You know, Maria,

891
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: it reminds me of so many cases I prosecuted where

892
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 1: somebody would be killed, say over a ten dollar, drugged

893
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 1: it over nothing, and then a life is gone. When

894
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 1: you hear that in those dark terms that Dr Bethany

895
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 1: Marshall just described, how does that make you feel? Your

896
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: best friend, Terra Grins did likely raped and murdered, her body, burned,

897
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: her flesh burned and buried in a pecan orchard in

898
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: them out in the middle of you know, fields and

899
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 1: fields and fields of orchards for what some money to

900
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: buy hit. I mean, it's very disheartening, and um did,

901
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, for the last twelve years,

902
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 1: it's been a constant battle trying to, you know, just

903
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,359
Speaker 1: get on with life and trying to go through you know, life,

904
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: because she doesn't have one anymore, and she's not able

905
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 1: to enjoy the things that you know she deserved to

906
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,919
Speaker 1: be able to enjoy. But I will say through all

907
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 1: that I have prayed and prayed and prayed, and obviously

908
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 1: she was a Christian, and I do believe that, you know,

909
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 1: once she left the body, you know, she never felt

910
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: any of this other I pray that you're right, Marie,

911
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: Marie do you feel that in any way you have

912
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: gotten messages from her after her death, like like what, well,

913
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: I've just felt her around and I've just felt you know,

914
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 1: I I talked to her, you know, I talked to

915
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: her when I pray, and I talked to her, you know,

916
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: when I'm in the car by myself, and I just

917
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: feel like she's listening. I mean, she was such a

918
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,720
Speaker 1: good listener anyway. But it's just been over the years.

919
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: I guess she's helped me through it, and she you know,

920
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: from the other side, and I just feel like that

921
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: she is okay now. And and and I want to

922
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: know obviously, my biggest fear was it was someone she knew,

923
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,959
Speaker 1: someone she knew her until the last thought she had

924
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: was this is somebody I thought loved me or knew me,

925
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: and and and and they're taking my life. But I

926
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: do believe that, you know, she didn't suffer as as

927
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: soon as it was apparently she was not. She was dead. That,

928
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, all the other does not matter. It does

929
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 1: matter when it comes to the justice and system and

930
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: trying to you know, punish these people. But I'm just

931
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: gonna keep believing that that she knew she was going

932
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 1: to heaven and and that was all she needed, you know,

933
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,399
Speaker 1: And at that point it didn't matter, you know. I

934
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: I tell myself that, Maria. I tell myself that, But

935
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: sometimes while I believe it's true, I find myself saying

936
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: that so I don't have to confront over and over

937
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:14,720
Speaker 1: and over what victims lived through just before their death.

938
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: But I know this, it ain't over yet. Nancy Grace

939
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 1: Crime Story, signing off Goodbye friends,