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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 2: is Robert.

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Speaker 3: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And today we're going to

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Speaker 3: be doing the second part in our series on the

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Speaker 3: single celled photosynthetic organisms called diatoms, and also focusing on

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Speaker 3: the silica based sedimentary material made out of the fossilized

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Speaker 3: remains of diatom shells. This material is diatomaceous Earth. If

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Speaker 3: you haven't heard part one, I would recommend you go

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Speaker 3: back and listen to that one before today's episode, but

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Speaker 3: for a brief refresher. In the last episode, we talked

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Speaker 3: a bit about dietom biology. Diatoms are single celled, eukaryotic

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Speaker 3: photosynthetic algae found in nearly every natural water source on

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Speaker 3: planet Earth, including not just lakes, rivers, and oceans, but

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Speaker 3: even more out of the way places like damp soil

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Speaker 3: and Arctic sea ice. They are not plants, they are

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Speaker 3: not animals, they're not fungi, but they do have a

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Speaker 3: cell nucleus and they make their own food using energy

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Speaker 3: from the sunlight. Diatoms are a major source of both

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Speaker 3: oxygen in Earth's atmosphere and primary organic material in the ocean,

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Speaker 3: So they're responsible for estimates vary, but about one fifth

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Speaker 3: of the air we breathe, and they make up a

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Speaker 3: major part of the base of the marine food web.

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Speaker 3: So if an animal is eating something in the sea,

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Speaker 3: there's a good chance that either it's a diatom, or

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Speaker 3: it's something that aid to diatom, or it's something that

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Speaker 3: it's something that aa die tom. So one of the

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Speaker 3: most important and unique characteristics of diatoms, the thing that

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Speaker 3: really sets them apart from other algal and planktonic organisms

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Speaker 3: in the water, is that they create a rigid, fortified

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Speaker 3: cell wall out of amorphous silica. So essentially, each diatom

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Speaker 3: is a little cell of algae that surrounds itself with

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Speaker 3: a porous piece of armor, a shell made out of

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Speaker 3: a material that is very similar to glass, and this

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Speaker 3: shell is called the frustule. We spent a lot of

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Speaker 3: time in the last episode just looking at and talking

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Speaker 3: about these microscopic shells because the bizarre and the diverse

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Speaker 3: forms these frustules take have been a source of amazement

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Speaker 3: for people ever since they were first observed under microscopes.

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Speaker 3: More than three hundred years ago, and you get kind

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Speaker 3: of different imagery depending on the first of all, in

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Speaker 3: the different species of diatom you look at, but then

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Speaker 3: also on the type of magnification and imagery you use.

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Speaker 3: So under light microscopes, diatoms often appear delicate and transparent,

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Speaker 3: so they're often compared to like jewels or fine glasswork,

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Speaker 3: whereas under electron microscopes they often look much stranger and

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Speaker 3: in some cases alarming, like these these shattered pieces of

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Speaker 3: alien machinery, and these frustules often accumulate in layers at

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Speaker 3: the bottom of bodies of water. After the diatoms dies,

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Speaker 3: the diatom's dye, the shells sink down and they turned

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Speaker 3: into a kind of diatom skeleton sludge or ooze that

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Speaker 3: over the eons can solidify into a porous, low density

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Speaker 3: kind of rock that we call diatomite. So millions of

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Speaker 3: years later, this sedimentary material can be dug up and

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Speaker 3: ground into a powder and sold in bulk for tons

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Speaker 3: of different household and industrial uses, including as an insecticide

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Speaker 3: like we talked about last time. Something we'll get into

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Speaker 3: a bit more this time is its use as a

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Speaker 3: filtration medium for liquid. It's used as an abrasive, it's

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Speaker 3: used in some toiletry products, it shows up in all

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Speaker 3: kinds of things, and so in the last episode we

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Speaker 3: were talking about just how bizarre it is that you

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Speaker 3: can go to the hardware store or the tractor supply

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Speaker 3: and buy a bag of this dust or a can

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Speaker 3: of this dust. But if you put that dust under

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Speaker 3: a high powered microscope, depending on how it's prepared, you

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Speaker 3: can probably still see that the grains of this mundane

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Speaker 3: stuff are filled with the broken remnants of Martian pocket

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Speaker 3: watch gears and these tiny, you know, jagged mesh tubes

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Speaker 3: and things that look like a stadium built for viruses.

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Speaker 3: And so at the end of the last episode we

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Speaker 3: ended up talking for a bit about one of the

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Speaker 3: most common mundane uses for diatamacious earth, which is as

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Speaker 3: a mechanical insecticide, and we got into some of the

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Speaker 3: grizzly details of how this works from the bugs perspective.

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Speaker 2: So if you missed that episode, go back and listen

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Speaker 2: to it wherever you get your podcasts, or if you

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Speaker 2: want to watch a as well, you can get the

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Speaker 2: audio video version of that episode and this one on Netflix.

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Speaker 3: Best way to see what our heads look like.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, what sure are we wearing this? This is

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Speaker 4: how you do it.

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Speaker 3: So we're going to talk more in today's episode about

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Speaker 3: human uses for these fossil alkyl skeletons. And one of

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Speaker 3: the historical human uses of dietamacious earth that I referred

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Speaker 3: to briefly in the last episode is its role in

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Speaker 3: the invention of dynamite. So I'd like to come back

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Speaker 3: and talk about that a bit more today. So if

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Speaker 3: you know one fact about the history of dynamite, it

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Speaker 3: is probably that it was invented by the Swedish chemist

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Speaker 3: Alfred Nobel, the same Nobel from whom we get the

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Speaker 3: Nobel Prizes. Nobel lived from eighteen thirty three to eighteen

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Speaker 3: ninety six, and for Alfred Nobel, explosives were the family business.

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Speaker 3: I was not aware of this beforehand, but so he

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Speaker 3: didn't just like out of no where, decide I'm going

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Speaker 3: to start making explosives. This was like a patrilineal thing.

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Speaker 3: So Alfred's father, Emmanuel Nobel, was an explosives and munitions

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Speaker 3: manufacturer who had contracts, for example, with the Tsar of Russia.

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Speaker 3: I think this would have been Zar Nicholas making things

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Speaker 3: like underwater mines, for the Russian military, which, yes, that

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Speaker 3: might be kind of surprising, but naval minds did exist

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Speaker 3: in the nineteenth century, primarily based at the time on gunpowder,

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Speaker 3: which was a granular mixture of potassium, nitrate, sulfur and charcoal, which,

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Speaker 3: for hundreds of years at this point, for hundreds of

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Speaker 3: years since its invention in ninth century China had been

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Speaker 3: the most important practical explosive known to humanity. There was

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Speaker 3: really nothing else out there that was more powerful, that

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Speaker 3: could be manufactured practically in significant quantities.

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Speaker 2: And if you want to know a little bit more

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Speaker 2: about the Chinese history of explosives, we've recorded at least

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Speaker 2: a couple of episodes on this in the past. I

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Speaker 2: believe if he did an invention of fireworks episode at

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Speaker 2: one point, So go back, you'll find that in the

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Speaker 2: audio archives.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So I was reading about Nobel in a number

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Speaker 3: of sources. One of them was a twenty twenty five

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Speaker 3: history dot Com article by Christopher Klein, and just one

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Speaker 3: funny thing he noted is that the young Alfred Nobel

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Speaker 3: had actually been interested in studying poetry. Maybe he had

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Speaker 3: kind of the soul of a poet or an artist,

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Speaker 3: but his father was not a fan of this path,

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Speaker 3: and so tried to steer him elsewhere. He tried to

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Speaker 3: funnel his son into the explosives business like his own business.

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Speaker 3: So he sent young Alfred away at age seventeen to

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Speaker 3: study under a prominent chemist in Paris to learn about

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Speaker 3: the cutting edge of explosives in chemistry. And while pursuing

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Speaker 3: his education, Nobel became familiar with the work of an

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Speaker 3: Italian chemist named Ascanio Sobrero, who in eighteen forty six

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Speaker 3: had discovered a new chemical explosive called nitro glycerin.

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Speaker 2: You know, this just really goes to show how crushed

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Speaker 2: his poetic aspirations probably were because you can't rhyme anything

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Speaker 2: with nitroglycerin or diotomaceous. I mean, maybe with great skill

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Speaker 2: you could, but you know, this alone had to just

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Speaker 2: really finish off his poetic dreams.

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Speaker 3: Diatomacious rhymes with gracious. You know, gracious, I feel so

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Speaker 3: gracious about this diatomaceous earth that goes in my nitroglycerin. Hey,

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm maybe.

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Speaker 2: I mean I've heard shakier rhymes before, so maybe it

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Speaker 2: could have worked.

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Speaker 3: So to make nitroglycerin, you start with a common and

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Speaker 3: widely used sugar alcohol called glycerol or sometimes sold as glycerin.

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Speaker 3: Glycerl is a naturally occurring organic molecule, so it's produced

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Speaker 3: in the bodies of plants and animals, but you can

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Speaker 3: also make it in industrial settings. For example, it has

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Speaker 3: historically been one byproduct of the process of manufacturing soap,

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Speaker 3: and other industrial processes can create it. And what Sobrero

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Speaker 3: discovered is that if you do a process called nitrating glycerol.

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Speaker 3: If you nitrate glycerol by mixing it with a combination

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Speaker 3: of nitric acid and sulfuric acid, you get a massively

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Speaker 3: exothermic chemical reaction, so chemical reaction that puts out a

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Speaker 3: lot of heat. This mixture starts to heat up rapidly

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Speaker 3: and can become very dangerous. It can even possibly explode. However,

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Speaker 3: Sobrero figured out that if you keep cooling, if you

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Speaker 3: aggressively cool the mixture while you're stirring the constituents together,

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Speaker 3: you can prevent this heating and you can stabilize it.

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Speaker 3: And what you are left with is an oily liquid

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Speaker 3: explosive sometimes described as yellow in color, though I think

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Speaker 3: it's supposed to be colorless at very high purity levels.

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Speaker 3: So maybe a pale yellow color often and this mixture

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Speaker 3: that you're left with is much more energetic than gunpowder.

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Speaker 3: So in the mid nineteenth century, nitroglycerin would be one

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Speaker 3: of the most powerful chemical explosives that anybody had ever discovered,

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Speaker 3: and it promised to be revolutionary for tons of industries.

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Speaker 3: When we think of explosives, of course, you know, we

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Speaker 3: can think of like the dark side, like violence and warfare,

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Speaker 3: but you can also think of lots of very productive,

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Speaker 3: peaceful uses for dynamite, and that was a major part

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Speaker 3: of its economic value. Value in like mining, civil engineering,

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Speaker 3: and transportation basically anything that involved blasting or tunneling through rock,

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Speaker 3: those industries could be could get a huge step up

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Speaker 3: from the invention of nitroglycerin. However, it came with a

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Speaker 3: major downside. While extremely powerful, nitroglycerin was also incredibly sensitive

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Speaker 3: and thus incredibly dangerous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for a cinematic example of this, you know, I

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Speaker 2: instantly think to the film The Wages of Fear or

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Speaker 2: the remake Sorcerer, in which you have, for plot reasons,

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Speaker 2: a truck loaded with nitroglycerin having to having to navigate

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Speaker 2: extremely bad mountain roads, and there's just a risk of

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Speaker 2: explosion almost you know, at every bump because of this.

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Speaker 3: That will get more horrifying when I start talking about

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Speaker 3: some of these historical examples. But yeah, so you had

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Speaker 3: this kind of liquid fire that before it was called nitroglycerin.

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Speaker 3: Actually Ascanio Sobrero was calling it pyro glycerin. So like

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Speaker 3: the glycerin of fire, this alcohol sugar alcohol molecule of fire.

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Speaker 3: And Sobrero's journals from early synthesis do, of course, because

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Speaker 3: it's nineteenth century, they do include tasting notes. He says

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Speaker 3: it is sweet and pungent on the tongue and that

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Speaker 3: it smells aromatic. But he also like includes a lot

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Speaker 3: of caution in his early writing about it. He says

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Speaker 3: research must be carried out with the greatest of care.

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Speaker 3: Several of his experiments in the lab ended with unintentional explosions,

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Speaker 3: including one case where a drop of nitroglycerin in a

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Speaker 3: test tube exploded and embedded fragments of glass in his face.

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Speaker 3: A Sobrero would also later say that he was so

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Speaker 3: horrified by the destructive potential of nitroglycerin that he was

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Speaker 3: ashamed to have discovered it, but he also took solace

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Speaker 3: in the idea that if he had not created it,

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Speaker 3: somebody else would have pretty soon, you know. So it

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Speaker 3: wasn't like, you know, nobody else would have ever come

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Speaker 3: across this formula. It's just kind of it's waiting there

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Speaker 3: in physics for us to find.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of people were working in this field

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Speaker 2: and trying to trying to find just such a substance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. One more note about the fact that he tasted it.

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Speaker 3: Chemists who tasted nitro in the mid nineteenth century sometimes

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Speaker 3: reported that ingesting it would create pounding headaches. I think

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Speaker 3: this is related to nitroglycerin's effect as a vasodilator, so

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Speaker 3: it relaxes blood vessels and increases blood flow and perhaps surprisingly,

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Speaker 3: though I would not recommend ingesting it without the you know,

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Speaker 3: without the supervision of a doctor. It is still used

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Speaker 3: today to treat like angina, pectorus, like chest pain.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you still do hear about people who are

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Speaker 2: taking nitroglycerin.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, sobrero kind of leaves off with nitro for

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Speaker 3: a while, and Alfred Nobel picked up the trail. He

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Speaker 3: saw enormous potential for nitroglycerin, given the power that it

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Speaker 3: could unleash. So Nobel started experimenting to see how he

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Speaker 3: could make it practical to use. Reading about the early

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Speaker 3: history of nitroglycerin is this morbid mix of comedy and tragedy.

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Speaker 3: Mostly tragedy, but there is a sort of grimly ironic

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Speaker 3: element when you just read, like tail after tale of

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Speaker 3: these horribly deadly whoopsies piling up. So there are constant

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Speaker 3: stories of unintended explosions during storage and transport. If the

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Speaker 3: nitro got too hot might explode. The even more important

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Speaker 3: thing is if it got jostled the wrong way might explode.

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Speaker 3: It was highly sensitive to temperature, but especially shocks, physical shocks,

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Speaker 3: And though this probably isn't quite true about how it works, it,

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Speaker 3: I think sometimes it seemed to people at the time

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Speaker 3: that it would just explode randomly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and even if not true, that's just a minor

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Speaker 2: exaggeration based on how sensitive it was.

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Speaker 3: So there were massive explosions in Nobel's own laboratories, including

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Speaker 3: one explosion that kill Old Alfred's younger brother Emil in

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Speaker 3: eighteen sixty four. These explosions in Nobel's lab also got

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Speaker 3: his research banned from the city of Stockholm in Sweden.

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Speaker 3: They were like, okay, you can't do this here anymore.

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Speaker 3: I think Nobel had a factory in Germany that exploded,

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Speaker 3: killing a bunch of people. And once nitroglycerin was being

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Speaker 3: sold to the public in the eighteen sixties by Nobel

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Speaker 3: and by others, it kept causing disasters all over the place.

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Speaker 3: So in April nineteen sixty six, there were two different,

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Speaker 3: just that one month, two different enormous, highly fatal nitroglycerin

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Speaker 3: accidents in the Western Hemisphere. I was reading about these

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Speaker 3: both of these accidents on a digital exhibit about railroad

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Speaker 3: history hosted at the Linda Hall Library of Kansas City website.

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Speaker 3: So the first incident was on April third, eighteen sixty six.

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Speaker 3: There was a steamship loaded with seventy crates of nitroglycerin

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Speaker 3: among other carb cargo, sitting in a harbor in Panama.

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Speaker 3: I think it was eventually bound for California, but it

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Speaker 3: exploded while while tied up at the dock, and that

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Speaker 3: killed around fifty people. And then just a few weeks later,

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Speaker 3: a roughly three hundred pound crate was awaiting delivery at

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Speaker 3: a Wells Fargo office in San Francisco when the workers

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Speaker 3: noticed that it was leaking some kind of oily fluid

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Speaker 3: onto the floor, and this kicked off an inquest about

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Speaker 3: whose fault it was that the crate was leaking. So

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Speaker 3: workers at the office got a hammer and they started

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Speaker 3: trying to pry open the box to see what the

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Speaker 3: damage was, and the process of opening the box caused

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Speaker 3: an explosion that completely destroyed the building and killed fifteen people.

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Speaker 4: Nikes.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, horribly dangerous stuff and these mechanical shocks jostling

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Speaker 3: could set it off and then the results are horrible.

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Speaker 3: But eventually, after a lot of continuous work, no Better

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Speaker 3: Well figured out some methods for making nitroglycerin usable by

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Speaker 3: making it less dangerous and temperamental. And one of the

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Speaker 3: most historically significant of these solutions involved diatomaceous earth, which

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Speaker 3: Nobel knew under the name the German named Kieselgre. Now

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Speaker 3: there's another invention relevant to nitroglycerin that Nobel came up with.

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Speaker 3: It's just as important, called the blasting cap, which was

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Speaker 3: a two stage ignition or detonation device for nitroglycerin. This

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Speaker 3: was created to solve a problem which was that, ironically,

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Speaker 3: despite the fact that nitro would often explode when you

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Speaker 3: didn't want it to, sometimes it wouldn't explode when you

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Speaker 3: did want it to. So, for example, you could not

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Speaker 3: just run a traditional fuse to a massive nitroglycerin the

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Speaker 3: way you'd run a fuse to a massive gunpowder to

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Speaker 3: blow it up. You run a fused to nitroglycerin, and

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Speaker 3: some sometimes the presence of fire would simply result in

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Speaker 3: the surface of the nitro catching fire rather than in

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Speaker 3: what you want, which is the sudden release of all

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Speaker 3: of the nitroglycerin's energy in an explosion. The blasting cap

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Speaker 3: got around this problem with a clever design. So it

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Speaker 3: was a multi chambered, multi explosive plug that used a

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Speaker 3: fuse traditional fuse to ignite a primary explosive like mercury fulminate,

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Speaker 3: and the explosion of that would cause a shock wave

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Speaker 3: that would reliably trigger a second chamber of nitroglycerin to explode.

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Speaker 3: So fuse ignites the primary, the shockwave from the exploding

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Speaker 3: primary detonates the nitro.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So the blasting cap innovation does not in any

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Speaker 2: way make the nitroglycerin safer or more stable in terms

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Speaker 2: of like keeping it from randomly blowing up or seeming

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Speaker 2: to randomly blow up, but rather it just makes it

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Speaker 2: more reliable when you do want it to blow up.

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Speaker 3: The major safety and stability innovation comes in with the

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Speaker 3: diatamacious earth the keesel gore. So, how does that come in?

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Speaker 3: Nobell figured out that if you mix liquid nitroglycerine with

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Speaker 3: keyesel gore, so with diatamacious earth, the ground up fossilized

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Speaker 3: skeletons of this ancient algae, you end up with a

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Speaker 3: multiple paste, which is useful for multiple reasons. One is

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Speaker 3: that as a paste, you can shape it however you want,

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Speaker 3: so you can like shape it into rods. You're probably

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Speaker 3: imagining when you think of dynamite a cylindrical stick, and

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00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 3: that is actually useful because you can if you're blasting rock,

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Speaker 3: you can drill holes in the rock and insert the

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Speaker 3: sticks into the holes.

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Speaker 2: A big downside, though, is that a cartoon character might

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Speaker 2: stick one in their mouth thinking it's a cigar or

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Speaker 2: a cars for a light.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that you don't want to get it mixed up

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Speaker 3: with carrot. But the other major change, or the other

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Speaker 3: major thing that makes this pay very useful, is that

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Speaker 3: it is far more stable than liquid nitroglycerin, less sensitive

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Speaker 3: to physical shocks, and less prone to random explosions. So

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Speaker 3: by absorbing the liquid into this porous dust. You prevent

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Speaker 3: physical actions like sloshing, which can happen with liquid nitro glycerine.

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Speaker 3: Slashing is really bad. That can be you know, that

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Speaker 3: can make it blow up. And I think I think

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Speaker 3: sort of the way it works, based on what I've

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Speaker 3: been reading, is that you generally limit the propagation of

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Speaker 3: mechanical shocks through the material by turning it into a paste.

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Speaker 3: So you just make it less prone to unwanted chain

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Speaker 3: reactions from shaking and jostling. If you picture like a

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Speaker 3: bottle full of just liquid, you know, oil or water

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Speaker 3: clear bottle, and you like flick the side of the bottle,

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Speaker 3: you can see waves rippling through the liquid inside. It

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Speaker 3: will propagate, you know, the impact will propagate through the liquid.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of hard to imagine waves rippling through a paste.

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Speaker 3: You're not really going to see waves propagating. Mechanical shocks

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Speaker 3: in a paste are absorbed and contained locally by deformation

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Speaker 3: of the paste. So that's, to my best understanding, one

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Speaker 3: of the main mechanisms of how it becomes safer in

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Speaker 3: paste form. So anyway, this combination of nitroglycerine and diatamacious earth,

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Speaker 3: which Nobel patented in eighteen sixty seven is what became

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Speaker 3: known as dynamite. Dynamite comes from the word dynamite comes

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Speaker 3: from the Greek word for power dynamies, So dynamite is

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Speaker 3: like the paste of power. And though I don't know

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Speaker 3: if this was intentional, I do like also that eight

341
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Speaker 3: is the suffix we often apply to like a mineral

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Speaker 3: or a rock, so you could also, I don't know

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Speaker 3: if Nobel meant it this way, but you could also

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Speaker 3: think of it as like the rock of power.

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Speaker 4: Oh nice.

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Speaker 3: Together with the invention of the blasting cap, dynamite paste

347
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Speaker 3: was a revolutionary material throughout multiple industries. And a funny

348
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Speaker 3: note on the name I think I also read this

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Speaker 3: in that history dot Com article. No Bell had been

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Speaker 3: trying to shake the bad reputation that followed nitroglycerin and

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Speaker 3: followed him after like all these infamous deadly explosions, and

352
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Speaker 3: so to put people's fears to rest, he initially wanted

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Speaker 3: to call dynamite quote Nobel's safety blasting powder.

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Speaker 2: He can imagine the label, Yeah, Nobell's safety blasting powder,

355
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Speaker 2: not for military use.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So the name did not stick, But if it

357
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Speaker 3: had the safety in the safety powder would come in

358
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Speaker 3: large part from the dietamacious earth. However, I do want

359
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 3: to note that diatamacious earth is not the only substance

360
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Speaker 3: that can stabilize nitroglycerin in this manner, So a lot

361
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Speaker 3: of absorbent powders and materials will work the same. And

362
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Speaker 3: I and I believe many subsequent dynamite preparations used other

363
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Speaker 3: absorbent solids like sawdust or paper pulp, which work as

364
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 3: well or better. But dietom skeletons were there first.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, you know, since we're talking, you mentioned

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Speaker 2: the absorbent qualities of the diatamacious earth, So let's let's

367
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Speaker 2: talk about another big one previously kind of invisible to me.

368
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Speaker 2: There are various diatomic products out there, you know, toothpas

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Speaker 2: for example, and so forth, but in any number of

370
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Speaker 2: industrial and product based uses. But a big one that

371
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Speaker 2: I was that I was completely unaware of is cat litter.

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Speaker 2: So to refresh your indoor cat, if you have one,

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Speaker 2: or your friend's indoor cat, whatever your exposure level to

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Speaker 2: these feel lines happens to be. These are creatures of

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Speaker 2: the desert, and being a creature of the desert, they

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Speaker 2: require a miniature desert in your house in which to

377
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Speaker 2: do their business. The cat is a lonely hunter, but

378
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Speaker 2: it is also prey for larger creatures, so it adapted

379
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Speaker 2: to hide its urine and its feces in loose substrate

380
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 2: to mask its scent. You know, given you know that

381
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Speaker 2: they'll prefer to use something like sand or you know

382
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Speaker 2: what we think of a litter But of course they will,

383
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Speaker 2: as many of us cat owners know, they will also

384
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Speaker 2: try to use other things, be it a bedspread or

385
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Speaker 2: what have you, something where they're like, okay, I could

386
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Speaker 2: go here and then maybe disguise it, you know, falling

387
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Speaker 2: back on these these highly evolved practices that apply to

388
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Speaker 2: a dry environment.

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Speaker 3: This is interesting. This is something I feel like I

390
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Speaker 3: should have already looked up and known the answer to.

391
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Speaker 3: But I didn't really know. Why do cats I mean again,

392
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Speaker 3: not all cats, that's all the time, but why generally

393
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Speaker 3: do cats know to use the litter box without training?

394
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Speaker 3: So you put out cat litter, cats go to the

395
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Speaker 3: litter box and do their business there. That seems strange.

396
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 3: I guess I would have assumed there's some kind of

397
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Speaker 3: smell or scent that manufacturers add to it that attracts

398
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 3: the cat, but you're saying it's more of an evolutionary

399
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: attraction to doing their business in a sandy or gravelly

400
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 3: substrate because that's yeah, okay, so that is their natural

401
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 3: tendency is to go in the sand. So if you

402
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 3: only have sand and sand like substance in one place

403
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 3: in your house, that's where they'll go exactly.

404
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's what's going on. And it's really

405
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: I was thinking about it the other day. I mean,

406
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 2: I think about the litter box every day because I

407
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 2: scoop it every day, but sometimes multiple times a day.

408
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Speaker 2: But it is one of the great things about a

409
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Speaker 2: domestic cat, a house cat, an indoor cat, but also

410
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: a frequent pain point because on one hand, it's like

411
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: it's basically a miracle because, like you say, you can

412
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Speaker 2: bring in a cat and for the most part, it's

413
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Speaker 2: just going to know to use the litter box or

414
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: use a litter box instead of all the various places

415
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: that it could be messing up with. It's urine and

416
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 2: it's fecal matter. Not to say they won't still get

417
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: fecal matter or you're in elsewhere in the house, they

418
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: absolutely will, But on the whole it will be isolated

419
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Speaker 2: to one spot.

420
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Speaker 3: It's a miracle. Really. Yeah. Imagine if you had to

421
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Speaker 3: train a cat where to go to the bathroom.

422
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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean some people do. That's a

423
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: topic for another time, but yeah, it's pretty amazing. But

424
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Speaker 2: of course it is also one of the pain points

425
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Speaker 2: of owning a cat, because you've got to scoop the box,

426
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: you've got to clean the box. And even though cats

427
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 2: are rather clean creatures, they can still make a litter

428
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: box pretty foul for a number of reasons, many of

429
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 2: which we can't really blame on them. They're interfacing with

430
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: the technology that they did not invent it. We did

431
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: so briefly about the invention of cat litter as a whole.

432
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: So prior to around nineteen forty seven, owners either of

433
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 2: course didn't use litter, as cats were primarily outdoor creatures

434
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 2: or the very least indoor outdoor. The advent of the

435
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 2: true indoor cat is relatively recent, and if they were

436
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: going in some sort of a substrate that was provided

437
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 2: for them, people would use sand, they would use ashes,

438
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 2: sawdust or something like this. And then in forty seven,

439
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 2: a man by the name of Edward Lowe who lived

440
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty through nineteen ninety five is generally regarded as

441
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 2: having invented the first cat litter made of clay, basing

442
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 2: it off of what he knew regarding industrial absorbent materials. So,

443
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 2: you know, knowing that, okay, if we have some sort

444
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: of a spill and a factory, there are certain things

445
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 2: we can throw on that to help absorb the moisture

446
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: and you know, aid and clean up. And he began

447
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: to apply some of that to the cat cat box situation. Now,

448
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 2: clumping cat litter comes later. Most of us were familiar

449
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: with some sort of a clumping cat litter. I remember

450
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: I have had some friends that were themselves not cat owners,

451
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: and they volunteered to cat sit for another friend. And

452
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: I remember stories of one of these individuals being rather

453
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,959
Speaker 2: shocked by the clumps that they were having to get

454
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 2: out of the litter box, like they didn't know what

455
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: they were. They were like, what is going on here?

456
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 2: This is weird. Cat's going in the box leaving behind

457
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 2: poop and big balls of clumped material. This comes later.

458
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 2: This is like a nineteen eighties innovation via moisture locking

459
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: minerals that are added into the mix. So yeah, we

460
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: end up in the age of litter and the pros.

461
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: You know, cat will use the bathroom on its own

462
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: time in a designated space. You don't have to walk

463
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 2: the cat. Depending on conditions and individual cat personality, the

464
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: cat might even bury what it leaves in the box.

465
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: Your experience may vary out there. My current cat, Mochi,

466
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: generally does not bury anything she may and again this

467
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 2: is not entirely on her. Cats are following certain programming.

468
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: The cat will do something like go in the box

469
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: and then like scrape on the top of the box

470
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: like do the digging motions somewhere or in some manner

471
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: that doesn't actually bury anything. So you know, like she's

472
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: going through the motions. It's not her fault that. Again,

473
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: this technology is weird, and maybe the litter boxes should

474
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 2: be much larger, I don't know, but you know, we

475
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: make do with what we got.

476
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 3: Many's kind of like when if you've ever seen people

477
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: out walking their dog and they they like stoop down

478
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 3: to pretend they're picking up the dog poop. They don't

479
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: really pick it up.

480
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,959
Speaker 2: Well like that, but without intent. It's like if that

481
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: person were just like so distracted that they were just

482
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: going through the motions of picking it up. I guess

483
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: there are some things that humans do kind of like

484
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: if you ever find yourself going to put dirty dishes

485
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: in the laundry hamper or or our dirty laundry into

486
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 2: the swasher, and you're like, what am I doing? I

487
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: guess it may be on some.

488
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: Level like that. Cats have a lot on their minds.

489
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

490
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: And the other great thing about cat litter is that

491
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: many forms of litter will rapidly dehydrate fecal matter and

492
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 2: cause urine to clump into those easily scooped clumps. So

493
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: in general you're just left with a dryer clean up area,

494
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: so like a cleaning up. This is, you know, an

495
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: overstatement of the obvious, but it is so much more

496
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: pleasant to clean up partially or wholly dehydrated cat crap

497
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: and certainly clumped cat urine as opposed to say, a

498
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 2: puddle of it. I've cleaned up all of these things,

499
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: all the different forms of urine and cat fecal matter before,

500
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's much easier if it's dried out.

501
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 4: Okay.

502
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: But the big cons of course, is that all litter

503
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: box choices are subject to cat approval. All litter box

504
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: arrangements are subject to change at any moment. New litters

505
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: that you may try to gradually introduced could be just

506
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: rejected out of hand or gradually rejected. This I've encountered

507
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 2: many times before we're like, let's let's try a different litter,

508
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: and I'm always like, yeah, let's do it. But you know,

509
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: the cat has to approve of it, so you'll begin

510
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: to change it over gradually, and a lot of times

511
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 2: this works. This is generally what's advised of cat owners,

512
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: like gradually change over to this different litter so the

513
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: cat can get used to it and you won't disrupt anything.

514
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 3: But I mean, like you use a mix or something, yeah,

515
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: to like.

516
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: Use a little bit of the old mix some of

517
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: this new mix and then gradually change the proportions until

518
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: it's just the new mixture. But I've had situations where

519
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: our cat will be like, no, this is not what

520
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to poop in anymore. I'll pee in it,

521
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: but no more poop, or they'll just or they're just

522
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 2: up and decide this is not it anymore. Now it's

523
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: the bed in the guest bedroom.

524
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 3: So Rob, can I ask I don't have a cat

525
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 3: and haven't had one for many years, But I have

526
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 3: a vague, long ago cat memory from family cats that

527
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 3: sometimes the cats attempt to be hygienic in burying the

528
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: material will actually create more of a mess because they

529
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 3: will end up kicking a bunch of cat litter out

530
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 3: of the box all over the room.

531
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this, there's a whole suite of problems

532
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: associated with and it varies depending on what kind of

533
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: litter you're using, Like, is this a letter litter that

534
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 2: the cat is going to, you know, kick out of

535
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: the litter box? Is the litter box constructed in a

536
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: way that enables us to happen more readily, or is

537
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 2: the cat going to track it out? Some litter litters

538
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: are more trackable and so forth. So yeah, they're they're

539
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: fastidious little creatures, but you know, they they still can

540
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: be quite foul, either accidentally or certainly as they get older.

541
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's the other big con is that litter

542
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,239
Speaker 2: boxes can still produce odor and or mess. They have

543
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: to be maintained, they have to be cleaned, and the

544
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: cat is only going to help you so much in

545
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: doing any of that. So cat owners, I think already

546
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: know this, But there are a variety of litters to

547
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: choose from out there. They range from clay baits clumping

548
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: litter that that that my that I believe that's the

549
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: kind of my cat uses and prefers. You also have

550
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 2: plant based, clumping and non clumping litters made from all

551
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 2: sorts of things like corn tofu. Newspaper is a big one. Uh,

552
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 2: this is this is pretty fascinating. Anyone out there who's

553
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,959
Speaker 2: into growing their own mushrooms might be aware of this.

554
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: But there at least used to be one called Yesterday's

555
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: News as a cat litter made from newspaper and it

556
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: and something about the way that it was it was

557
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: manufactured and like the purity of it it was ideal

558
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: for growing oyster mushrooms out.

559
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: Of Now, I assume you wouldn't want to cross the

560
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 3: streams there not like using it as cat litter and growing.

561
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you wouldn't want to know absolutely, but but it

562
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: was apparently, uh you know, some some cat owners liked

563
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: using it, but also mushroom enthusiasts were fond of it

564
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: as well. And yeah, so so there are various other

565
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: litters as well. Crystal litters are really big now, you know,

566
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 2: to ones that were the color changes depending on what's

567
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: going on in the cat's urine. And then you also

568
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: have diatomaceous cat litter as well.

569
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 3: Awesome.

570
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have not personally, or I certainly have

571
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: it personally, but my cat has not tried out diatamacious

572
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 2: cat litter. But this is to understand typically food gray

573
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 2: diatamacious earth that offers natural odor control and is often

574
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 2: sought out for being a physically lighter alternative. This is

575
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 2: of course one of the big things about cat litter

576
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 2: for using like a like, especially like a clay based

577
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 2: This is like a big tub, a big heavy tub

578
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: you have to bring into the house every so often,

579
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: and it's not necessarily a workout you want to incorporate

580
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 2: into your weekly life.

581
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 3: But as we've talked about, diatamacious earth tends to be

582
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 3: very low density. Yeah, so for us, you know, it's

583
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 3: made of these kinds of cages with lots of little

584
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 3: hollows in the grains.

585
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so much lighter, much lighter. And then indeed, that's

586
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 2: one of the appealing things about different non clay litters.

587
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: It's like, oh it's lighter. Maybe I can get it

588
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: shipped to me. You know, it's just gonna be less

589
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 2: of a hassle to carry. Other things about diatamacious cat

590
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 2: litter is that it's also generally chemical free and considered

591
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: non toxic. I'd be interested to hear what listeners out

592
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: there have to share if you've tried diatamacious cat litters.

593
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 2: But I think all of this makes sense given what

594
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 2: we've established about the substance. Now cat owners in general,

595
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: just looking around at some of the chatter online, they

596
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 2: seem to go back and forth on diatamacious earth litters

597
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 2: and diatamacious earth based litters. You know, some saying well, okay,

598
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 2: I'm worried about potential respiratory impact and so forth. I'd

599
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 2: say on any of that, you know, ask your vet,

600
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 2: or if you're worried about yourself, ask your your actual doctor.

601
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 2: But this is another This is another thing with litters

602
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 2: in general. Some litters they can throw up a great

603
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 2: deal of dust into the air. Lighter litters, too, might

604
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: track out a little more easily. So you know, there's

605
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 2: there's there's no perfect world here. There's gonna be some

606
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: drawback no matter what you're doing, because at the end

607
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 2: of the day, there is a small predatory creature that's

608
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: living in your house, and it is pooping in a.

609
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 3: Box, And so wouldn't it be cool if it was

610
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 3: pooping into the trillions of fossilized skeletons of ancient algae.

611
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: I think it would be fitting, given that these are

612
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 2: tiny little predators who seem very very high and mighty

613
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: at times. You know that they venture into this mass

614
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 2: grave of prehistoric organisms, and that is where they do

615
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 2: their business, you know, on pyramids of fossils.

616
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 3: Poop on the graveyard of eons past.

617
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, So I wanted to talk about just a

618
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 5: few more quickly, a few more human uses of dietamacious earth.

619
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 3: Ranging from the weird to the mundane. Though again they're

620
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 3: all pretty weird when you think about what dietamacious earth

621
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 3: is these fossil skeletons. So one I alluded to briefly

622
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 3: in the last episode is filtration. Diatamacious earth is often

623
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 3: used to filter unwanted solids out of liquids. So, for example,

624
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 3: one major use is in pool cleaning systems. You know,

625
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: if you have a pool has a filtration device and

626
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 3: you can use different types of media there. So I

627
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 3: think some just use like sand, But diatamacious earth is

628
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 3: a popular choice there, but it's also in its food

629
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 3: grade form used in the production of foods and beverages,

630
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 3: for example, wine and beer. Pure dietamacious earth is considered

631
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 3: a good choice for filtering drinks like this because it

632
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 3: will catch and sive out suspended particles. In the case

633
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 3: of beer, this can include yeast and other particles of

634
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 3: like proteins that can cause cloudiness or haziness in beer.

635
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 3: In some beers, you know you want haziness. That's a

636
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 3: In some cases that's a property you're trying to retain.

637
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 3: In other cases, you want to filter it out and

638
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 3: increase the clarity of the beer.

639
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 2: I've seen beers with names that invoke haziness as being

640
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 2: an important part of their personality.

641
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I like a hazy beer, but I also

642
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 3: like a clear beer. You know, it's different, different different

643
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 3: beers for different years.

644
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 2: I'm only clear if I am having a beer, it

645
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 2: needs to be so clear that I can see the

646
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: person on the other side of the table through it.

647
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 3: Well, I think then you're probably drinking some beer that

648
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 3: has gone through some fossil Fossil dietm skeletons. It's not

649
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 3: the only filtration system used, but it's a common one.

650
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 3: So if you picture this process at the microscopic level,

651
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 3: you're gonna have the liquid dripping through and you just

652
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 3: imagine particles of yeast and the other floating objects becoming

653
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 3: caught in the cages and crags of these machine elf

654
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: gears as the liquid is going through it. It's useful

655
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 3: because it's good to you for filtration because, as you

656
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 3: were just talking about with the cat litter, it is

657
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 3: chemically inert. Basically it's glass, so it's not going to

658
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 3: be chemically reacting with what's passing through it. It doesn't

659
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 3: really add a taste of its own. This, of course,

660
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 3: is provided you are using correctly food grade ditamacious earth.

661
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 3: Use the wrong kind and you could add weird flavors

662
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 3: in addition to introducing safety issues. So I have to

663
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 3: use the food grade kind, and based on what I

664
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: was reading from Brewers, the biggest advantage dietamacious earth seems

665
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 3: to have over membrane based filters is that you can

666
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 3: pass a lot more liquid through it before it effectively

667
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 3: becomes clogged.

668
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 2: If this is of course, this is going to be

669
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: a no brainer for a lot of people, but generally,

670
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 2: when you're dealing with any kind of filtration system, it

671
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 2: will reach a point where it cannot filter anymore because

672
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 2: it is filled of the stuff you're trying to filter.

673
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 2: This is why if you have a filter for say

674
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: your water supply in your refrigerator, that's why that needs

675
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: to be changed out every so often or not used.

676
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 2: Like it's either use it and replace it or don't

677
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: use it at all.

678
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Another common use of dietamacious earth is as

679
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 3: an abrasive, so it's used as a mild abrasive and

680
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 3: different kinds of polishes. This is true and everything from

681
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 3: like you'll find like jewelry polishes that use dietamacious earth

682
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 3: polishes for metal working, and in some kinds of toothpaste.

683
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 3: I think at least it's not going to be in

684
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 3: all of them, but at least some brands of like

685
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 3: the gritty polishing paste that you get at the dentist,

686
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 3: you know, and they were.

687
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: Run and taste like hopefully mint. But also if you're

688
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: un lucky cherry or chocolate.

689
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 3: You never got bubblegum.

690
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 2: I have had bubblegum before. This is one of the

691
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 2: about the only things I can talk about with my hygienesis.

692
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, what flavor do we have coming up? Hopefully

693
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: they'll say meant and you know after that you just

694
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: have stuff in your mouth the whole time.

695
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 3: And you can't talk again. It's not all of them,

696
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 3: but like some brands of this kind of polishing paste

697
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 3: can use dietamacious earth. A more cutting edge proposed use

698
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: with some pun intended here that I thought was really

699
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 3: interesting is a use of dietamacious earth potentially in future

700
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 3: first aid when you are rapidly losing blood. So I

701
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 3: came across a paper from twenty twenty two called diatamite

702
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 3: hemostatic particles with hierarchical porous structure for rapid and effective hemostasis.

703
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 3: This was published in the journal Colloids and Surfaces B

704
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 3: bio Interfaces. The lead author is named Changsu. A bunch

705
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 3: of co authors listed, and the researchers in this paper

706
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 3: showed that you could promote rapid blood clotting after an

707
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 3: injury with the use of a topical granular treatment. So

708
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 3: you have kind of a sand that you would are

709
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 3: a sand based treatment that you would put on a wound.

710
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 3: Though it wasn't sand, it was dietamacious earth. Though to

711
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 3: be clear, This is not just plain diatamacious earth straight

712
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 3: out of the bag. So don't think like it's a

713
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 3: good idea. Oh if I get cut, I'm going to

714
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 3: reach into the bag and cram ditamacious earth on the

715
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: It was specially prepared product that had gone through a

716
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 3: process to enhance its blood clotting capabilities. The product they

717
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 3: created was called diatomite hemostatic granules, and so in a

718
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 3: model where they used these granules for treating amputations and rats,

719
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 3: the granules caused rapid coagulation without toxic side effects. And

720
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 3: it seems like one of the major advantages here is

721
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 3: again this absorbent the porous absorbent qualities of diatamacious earth,

722
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 3: the ability to absorb fluids. This seems to sort of

723
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 3: concentrate the platelets at the blood at the exposure, at

724
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 3: the place where the cut is or the wound is,

725
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 3: and again promotes rapid clotting. And I think this is

726
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 3: related to a lot of these other uses. One thing

727
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 3: I didn't really get into, but it's sometimes used to

728
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 3: clean up spills. You know, dietamacious earth because it has

729
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 3: this absorbent quality, you can kind of soak things up

730
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 3: in various situations.

731
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 2: So diatomite hemostatic granules, not for do it your self use,

732
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 2: but maybe in the future, and certainly if you're writing

733
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: some science fiction and you want to jazz up your

734
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 2: your healthcare first aid scene, yeah, run with it.

735
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 3: I could imagine. Yeah, in the future, So somebody on

736
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 3: the alien planet, they get their arms sliced off by

737
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 3: a laser, and so you just cram some of the

738
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 3: some of the diatamite sand on there and it seals

739
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 3: you right up.

740
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 2: All right? Would you like to talk about some going

741
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 2: back to the organism level of things, Do you want

742
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: to talk about some diatoms of interest here?

743
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely? I would love to look at some of these

744
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 3: weird little guys.

745
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. We talked a little bit about specific varieties and

746
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 2: species in the last episode, and as we close out

747
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: this episode, I just wanted to talk about a few

748
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: that turned up in my research as being particularly interesting

749
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 2: for one reason or another. A lot of this is

750
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: just how they look, you know, like why does this

751
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 2: one look like a star? Why does this one look

752
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 2: like a tube? Why does this one look like a gear? Again,

753
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 2: there's so much variety, so much visual variety in what's

754
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 2: going on and sometimes that does seem to cross over

755
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 2: into their functionality as well in fascinating ways. The first

756
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 2: one I want to talk about here is Corathron castra

757
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 2: khani previously known as corathron cryophillum castra khani. This one

758
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 2: is a spiky diatom, sometimes compared to a mace, though

759
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 2: I think that's a bit of a stretch trying to

760
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 2: infuse a little medieval warfare into it, because when I

761
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 2: see it, I think, okay, Chinese finger trap, which by

762
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 2: the way, is a toy of non Chinese origin, but

763
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: everyone knows what I'm talking about, a Chinese finger trap,

764
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 2: but with spikes I see.

765
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 3: I see a vacuum tube with tentacles.

766
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's more the vibe I get.

767
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 3: Unless something that came out of the back of a

768
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 3: guitar amplifier and but then came alive and is now

769
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 3: it's also the thing.

770
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a little bit for sure. Yeah, definitely a

771
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 2: strange looking thing. Maybe not the most exotic of diatoms

772
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 2: if you just looking at an illustration with a bunch

773
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: of them, but once you really start looking at it,

774
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 2: it is a weird one. So we're dealing with the

775
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 2: marine plectonic diatom genus here, and one that's pretty widespread

776
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 2: today and in the fossil record back as far as

777
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,919
Speaker 2: the Cretaceous period. This according to this I was reading

778
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 2: about in the intriguing marine diatom genus corethron in late

779
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 2: Cretaceous amber from Vendt, France by Martin at All, published

780
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen in Cretaceous Research. The interesting thing here is

781
00:45:55,000 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 2: that the fossil evidence of this particular organism it shows up.

782
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 3: In amber, oh like in Jurassic Park.

783
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 2: The authors described this as a special case of biostratinemy.

784
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 2: This is a fancy term for the study of an

785
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 2: organism's remains after it dies. And they say that this

786
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 2: is a case quote where a marine taxon is incorporated

787
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 2: into the liquid resin produced by trees. Implied that the

788
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 2: Vendine amber forest grew in a near shore environment where

789
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 2: wind sea spray or high tide introduced the marine diaton

790
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 2: frustules into the terrestrial realm.

791
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 3: WHOA, Okay, So if I'm understanding this right, they're saying

792
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 3: that the fossil amber is going to be something that

793
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 3: came out of a plant like a tree. Maybe the

794
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 3: resin before it got hardened, and so it comes out

795
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 3: and it's this sticky substance and it is somehow getting

796
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 3: seawater incorporated into it. So maybe it's at the shore

797
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 3: and it's getting sprayed by the waves, or there's a

798
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 3: flood and it gets seawater on it. Somehow out the

799
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 3: seawater gets onto it, the seawater has these shells of

800
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 3: the diatoms in the water, and thus it gets incorporated

801
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 3: into the fossil amber.

802
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, okay, so pretty pretty amazing awesome. Yeah,

803
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 2: So that in and of itself was worth focusing on.

804
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 2: But there's more interesting about this. This this type of organism,

805
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 2: the corthron, is the only diatom genus that features separate

806
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 2: movable components spines of the cell wall. The authors point

807
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 2: out that all corthron species can move at least to

808
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 2: some degree, and that the movement is mechanical, as these

809
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: spines are outside of the.

810
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 3: Cell wallh Okay.

811
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: Again, coming back to what we talked about before, where

812
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 2: with diatoms we're talking about a single cell organism. We're

813
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: looking at a cell. Yeah, so this their cell body here,

814
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: this tube. It has a valve at either end, one

815
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: circled by long spines with tiny barbs, and the other

816
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: has these short hooked spines, forming what is sometimes called

817
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 2: a crown or described as a crown, and the hooks

818
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 2: lock the spines in place, apparently until the organism reaches maturity,

819
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 2: and then the spines swing out seemingly to quote keep

820
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 2: cells apart or serve as a physical defense against zooplankton

821
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: that you know might eat them.

822
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 3: Oh okay, so it's it's got some weaponry or defensive mechanisms.

823
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, in a very kind of basic sense, you know,

824
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: just sort of like creating space with spines. That's sort

825
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 2: of yeah.

826
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 3: Okay.

827
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 2: The way that the silica spines are attached to the

828
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 2: dome shaped valves, though, is sometimes described as very much

829
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 2: being a ball in socket style joint. You can look

830
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 2: up imagery of this. I included an example here from

831
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 2: a study Joe for you to look at, and folks

832
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 2: at home you can look up at the examples of

833
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: this as well by just doing a Google search. But

834
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 2: you do, yeah, you do get this sense of like

835
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: a ball in socket sort of joint. So it's pretty amazing.

836
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 3: Okay, So is that how if I'm understanding this right,

837
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 3: that's how the spines kind of move on the outside

838
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 3: is Yeah, they have a they are loosely attached at

839
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 3: the opening, but they have something, a thicker element behind

840
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 3: the opening that keeps the spines from falling out.

841
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 4: Correct, Yes, okay, all right.

842
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: For the next one I want to talk about, there

843
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 2: is Basilaria pack Silafer. This one is also very fascinating.

844
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 2: This was very interesting to look at visually, at least

845
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 2: if you're looking at a bunch of them, a colonial

846
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 2: assortment of them. So this is a because this is

847
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 2: a colonial diatom with a unique form of movement. Individually,

848
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: they are not very interesting. Each one of these looks

849
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 2: maybe like a toothpick. I've seen them described as looking

850
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 2: like pegs. They're just long and narrow. They look like

851
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 2: little sticks.

852
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, long, thin, wand yeah.

853
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so noting, nothing really remarkable in that. But they'll

854
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 2: align parallel with one another to form these colonial formations

855
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 2: that look very mechanical.

856
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so they're all lining up side by side,

857
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 3: and what originally was like a toothpick becomes kind of

858
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: a row of toothpicks and takes on this look like,

859
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 3: I don't know, the expanding part of an accordion, maybe

860
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 3: or like blinds or something.

861
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, blinds. That's a good example, a good way to

862
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 2: think of them. I was trying to think, well, what

863
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 2: is this reminding me of? And I think it was

864
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 2: reminding me a bit of collated framing nails, you know,

865
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 2: where you'll have like the nails that are kind of

866
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 2: like stuck together with this stuff and they kind of

867
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 2: like line up parallel to each other.

868
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 3: Okay.

869
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 2: Or perhaps I'm thinking about some sort of licorice. Maybe

870
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 2: there's a licorice out there that I'm only half remembering

871
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 2: that has this kind of formation. So the crazy thing

872
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,879
Speaker 2: about this formation is they're not just again, this has

873
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 2: to do with how they end up moving as a group.

874
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 2: So in this formation, they're able to slide against the neighbors,

875
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 2: and they can coordinate these movements in their own way

876
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 2: to move the entire formation by compacting it and expanding it.

877
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 3: Okay, So each individual dietom is its own single celled organism,

878
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 3: but they group together into these colonies, these groupings, and

879
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 3: as a group they are able to kind of expand

880
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 3: and contract in a way that moves the whole group.

881
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 4: Yes.

882
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And one of the fascinating sort of science world

883
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 2: things about this is that this is mentioned in like

884
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 2: the Wikipedia article about this type of diatom, but I

885
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 2: dug into it and found the paper where it was

886
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: being discussed in detail. This diatom has its own dance,

887
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 2: its own dance that some human scientists have performed on occasion,

888
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 2: though I'm not sure if it's recommended that scientists do

889
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 2: this at any conferences today. As we'll discuss, it was

890
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 2: acceptable in the eighties. It was acceptable. This was detailed

891
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 2: in the Colonial Diatom Basilaria Paradoxa. This was by using

892
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 2: it all, published two thousand and five, and it is

893
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 2: referring back to something that would have occurred in I

894
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 2: believe nineteen eighty seven, and this would have been at

895
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 2: the North American Diatom Symposium or NADS. The dance was

896
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 2: allegedly invented by Edward C. Theiat and p Rogers Sweets. Okay,

897
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 2: so this basically involved We already talked about the way

898
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 2: that the diatoms move colonially. This basically involves biologists in

899
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 2: varying states of sobriety lining up next to each other,

900
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 2: I think like front to back sort of a situation,

901
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 2: lining up with each other like this, and then rubbing,

902
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 2: moving against each other in order to move like colonial diatoms. Okay,

903
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,320
Speaker 2: this paper that I referenced, they include an interview snippet

904
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 2: with the biologist theiat who had produced some footage of

905
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 2: the organism's movements prior and like this led into the

906
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 2: different biologists trying it out. So reading from this interview

907
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 2: snippet in this article, he says, quote choreography was very basic.

908
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 2: Chant do the bas cellaria? Do the basilaria up in

909
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 2: tone on the first, uh down on the second. During

910
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: the chant, everyone slid tightly against the next person front

911
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 2: to back. As I recall, central nodule job was to

912
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,439
Speaker 2: try to keep both ends moving at approximately the same rate.

913
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 2: And I'll point out, he notes later, there would be

914
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: no such role for the actual diatoms. There is no

915
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 2: leader for the diatoms, but they're just trying to sort

916
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 2: of physically recreate the movements here, he says, as we

917
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 2: got more practiced at it, we tried to move everyone

918
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 2: but at different rates, much like a real basilaria.

919
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 3: The dance. Cause, I do admit I'm having a little

920
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 3: trouble picturing how the movement happens.

921
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, and it's worth noting here that the dance

922
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 2: caused some of the drunker or less coordinated dancers to

923
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 2: fall down on the floor fall out of the arrangement. Also,

924
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 2: some of the dancers were going to be were more

925
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 2: comfortable with this dance because they're having to rub up

926
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 2: against their neighbor, and in many cases like maybe that

927
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 2: neighbor is a significant other other times I guess it's

928
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:25,320
Speaker 2: maybe a stranger. In general, I realized today this sounds

929
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 2: like an hr nightmare. But apparently at the time in

930
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: eighty seven it was acceptable. But they said they tried

931
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: it again at the Finland International Diatom meeting, but quote

932
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 2: it did not have the same magic.

933
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 3: The moment's gone.

934
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: So I don't know if biologists are still doing this

935
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 2: at any diatom symposiums out there. I imagine there's a

936
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 2: lot more paperwork involved if you do.

937
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 3: I guess if it's on a volunteer basis.

938
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 4: Yeah.

939
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

940
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 2: One more thing about Busselaria here, and I realized I

941
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 2: may have pronounced it like three different ways, but is

942
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 2: the author's going out Like The really fascinating thing about

943
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 2: its movement is that it moves like a segmented organism

944
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 2: in some respects, but each segment is an individual. So

945
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:14,240
Speaker 2: what we have here is synchronize mechanical behavior in single

946
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 2: cell organisms.

947
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 3: Interesting.

948
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. The final one I want to talk about is

949
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 2: a plankton Alis soul. This one is just this one's

950
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 2: very beautiful to look at because it looks like a

951
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 2: like a solar disk, or some describe it as looking

952
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 2: like a maybe like a nineteen fifties UFO is seen

953
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 2: from above.

954
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 3: I was going to say, it's it's the wicker Man.

955
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 3: We have the face of Nuada here.

956
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 2: It does kind of look like New auDA. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

957
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 2: it's one that's going to stand out if you look

958
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 2: at some of these illustrations of various diatom species. But

959
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: it's also one of these where if you don't know

960
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 2: what you're looking at, it's easy to miss. Because we

961
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,720
Speaker 2: know that diatoms are cells, so it would be easy

962
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 2: to assume that we're just looking at a cell.

963
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 4: Here.

964
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 2: It's round, you know, it has different parts to it,

965
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: and maybe you don't remember all the parts off the

966
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,399
Speaker 2: top of your head, and you're like, okay, there's the cell,

967
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 2: but the central part of it, well you might think

968
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 2: of the is the yolk of this fried egg. This

969
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,840
Speaker 2: is the diatom cell. Meanwhile, the egg white part is

970
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 2: essentially a sale, and we see these structures kind of

971
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 2: holding the sale out as well. And this segment, this

972
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 2: wide of the egg on this particular diatom, this is

973
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 2: called the corona, and it is a ribbed extracellular matrix

974
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 2: that does act as a sale. So the corona increases

975
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 2: its surface area with this structure, and it allows it

976
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 2: to catch and travel on ocean currents more easily. So,

977
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 2: you know, something so small, we don't think about it

978
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 2: so much, but yeah, it is having to essentially sail

979
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 2: around in its watery environment. This seems to be a

980
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: very successful design because this particular type is widely distributed,

981
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 2: common in tropical and subtropical waters, but with possible greater

982
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 2: temperature tolerance in general. Apparently that's something that scientists are

983
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 2: still studying. But it does not have a signature dance.

984
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 2: That's that's worth noting as well.

985
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:09,879
Speaker 3: But if it did have a dance, I think it'd

986
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 3: be the wicker Man dance Christopher Lee is doing at

987
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 3: the front of the parade with the yeah yeah and

988
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 3: some japes.

989
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 4: Man.

990
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 2: I think he does some spinning around, you know, he

991
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 2: does make sense.

992
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Okay, well does that do it? For part two?

993
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 3: Are we going to come back for one more episode

994
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 3: on diatoms? I believe, we move on to something else.

995
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 2: I believe, so we have a little more history to cover,

996
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 2: we may have some more specific types of diatoms to discuss,

997
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 2: and who knows what else, because again, its uses are

998
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 2: so widespread, so specific at times, so mundane at times,

999
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 2: but also fascinating in the way that again, these kind

1000
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 2: of this kind of you know this, this dead soil

1001
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 2: leftovers of these little tiny glass shelled creatures, you know

1002
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: they they end up playing an important but almost role

1003
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 2: in so many aspects of our lives.

1004
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well more next time.

1005
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 2: All right, we'll go and close it out. But reminder

1006
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 2: to everyone out there, wherever you happen to get our podcasts,

1007
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:15,960
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1008
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1009
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:22,680
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1010
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1011
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1012
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1013
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1014
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1015
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1016
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1017
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1018
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1019
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1020
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1021
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1022
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1024
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1025
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:08,800
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1026
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:10,720
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1027
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,280
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1028
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1029
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1030
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:26,919
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1031
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,960
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