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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal

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Speaker 1: and Sager. We're going to be totally upfront with you.

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Speaker 1: We took a big risk going independent to make this work.

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Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC.

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Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars doing it to help support our mission of

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Speaker 1: making all of us hate each other, less hate the

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Speaker 1: hour early before everyone else. You get to hear our

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Speaker 1: reactions to each other's monologues. You get to participate and

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Speaker 1: weekly ask me any things, and you don't need to

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Speaker 1: hear our annoying voices pitching you like I am right now?

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Speaker 1: com become a Premium member today, which is available in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. Enjoy the show, guys, Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have, Crystal, Indeed we do. We got

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Speaker 1: Michael Brendan Daugherty on today. He's going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about vaccine hesitancy and if we actually want to get

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Speaker 1: more people vaccinated, what would be the best approach. I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited to talk to him in depth about that

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Speaker 1: really interesting story this morning. The continuing tense battle between

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Speaker 1: the White House and Facebook. What's going on there? First

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Speaker 1: rioter sentenced from January sixth. We'll talk about whether we

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Speaker 1: think that sentence was adequate or too much, and where

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Speaker 1: things go from here. Major update in Haiti. The US

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Speaker 1: has sort of switched horses there and is backing a

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Speaker 1: different potential leader in that country. Also new fears among

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Speaker 1: Democrats both about twenty twenty two and about twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: especially if Kamala Harris is at the helm. But we

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Speaker 1: wanted to start with a pretty significant stock market crash

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Speaker 1: that happened yesterday. Yeah, this was a really big deal

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Speaker 1: and actually coincides with a lot of elite mainstream discourse

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Speaker 1: around the Delta variant, around fears around pushing for more lockdown.

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Speaker 1: So let's put this up there on the screen, which

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Speaker 1: is that the S and P five hundred yesterday fell

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Speaker 1: the most since May as investors grow increasingly concerned that

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Speaker 1: the Delta variant will weigh in on the global economy.

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Speaker 1: Now look at the next one there, which is that

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Speaker 1: the Dow Jones actually had its worst day since losing

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Speaker 1: two point two percent on the index, the most since October.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is really important because I want

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Speaker 1: to put this all in context for everybody. What's happening

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Speaker 1: right now is a total elite panic. When we were

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Speaker 1: planning the show, I was like, Crystal, I don't understand

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Speaker 1: the cases. I mean, yeah, there's like, take a look

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Speaker 1: at the moving average. There's a slight uptick. Yes, people

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Speaker 1: are dying of the delta variant. Ninety nine point seven

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Speaker 1: percent of them are unvaccinated. And you look at that

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Speaker 1: and you're like, how has this in the last week?

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Speaker 1: Because this national conversation. So let's like actually go through it.

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Speaker 1: Here's a map, the New York Times map, the daily

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Speaker 1: case Tracker. You can go and look look at the

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Speaker 1: lack of red within the hotspots. Even where we do

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Speaker 1: have hot spots, it's predominantly in places I believe with

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Speaker 1: a less than I think if they have like a

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Speaker 1: thirty percent vaccination rate, largely amongst the lower middle class, Black,

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Speaker 1: Hispanic and white Americans. Pretty much the same story all

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Speaker 1: across the United States. Yes, the Sun Belt where or

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Speaker 1: those populations disproportionately live. But when you see the uptick

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Speaker 1: even within the confirmed cases, and more the lack of

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Speaker 1: deaths amongst the elderly, especially the elderly who are vaccinated,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand where this like top down panic is

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Speaker 1: coming from. I saw the Americans Physicians Association yesterday say

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Speaker 1: that every child over too should be wearing a mask indoors.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, this is insanity. And you pair that with

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Speaker 1: La County bringing back indoor mask mandates again in violation

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Speaker 1: of CDC guidance which says that that's not recommended whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: And we're beginning to see this elite, top drowned driven narrative,

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Speaker 1: which is what the stock market is now is now

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Speaker 1: reacting to. And my fear is that this becomes a

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Speaker 1: snowball because we remember back to the early days of coronavirus.

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Speaker 1: Is all of those fed into one another. Now, Look,

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Speaker 1: I actually think that was justified in February of twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: This time, though, given the media attention, I have to

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Speaker 1: just think that this is because frankly, there's not a

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Speaker 1: lot of other stories going on, and b which is

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Speaker 1: that there are a lot of people having a lot

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Speaker 1: of trouble just letting go of coronavirus restriction and letting

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Speaker 1: a very modest increase in cases, you know, spur some

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Speaker 1: very extreme behavior and proposals. So first of all, it's

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Speaker 1: always important to say, like, why bother covering the stock market, which,

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Speaker 1: of course we believe to be a graph of rich

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Speaker 1: people's feelings. But rich people's feelings country, right, they tend

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Speaker 1: to drive a lot of what happens in the United

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Speaker 1: States of America. So that's why we wanted to dig into, like, well,

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Speaker 1: what exactly is going on here with regard to the

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Speaker 1: delta variant case load, since delta is now the sort

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Speaker 1: of like primary spreading variant in the country at this point.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a little bit of confusion here that

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Speaker 1: is somewhat deliberately fed by the media because coronavirus was

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Speaker 1: great for ratings. But I also don't want to underplay

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Speaker 1: the fact case numbers new case numbers are up over

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Speaker 1: the past fourteen days by one hundred and ninety eight percent.

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Speaker 1: So that sounds really really bad and it is not good, right,

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Speaker 1: Don't like, don't let me sugarcoated here, it's not good,

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Speaker 1: especially in places that have low vaccination rates. The case

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Speaker 1: numbers are definitely spiking. As you saw on that map, Arkansas, Missouri,

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Speaker 1: and Florida are the three places that are hardest hit

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Speaker 1: right now. However, when you're talking about percentage change, it

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Speaker 1: matters where you started, and the reality is we were

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Speaker 1: doing really well before this current spike. So when you

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Speaker 1: hear numbers like, oh my god, it's going up one

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Speaker 1: hundred and ninety eight percent, definitely something you want to watch.

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Speaker 1: Definitely something you want to pay attention to and think

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Speaker 1: about what's the right response and how do we get

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Speaker 1: more people vaccinated, because that's really the ballgame now at

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Speaker 1: this point, beyond masking or social distancing or anything, it's

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Speaker 1: really about getting people vaccinated because they are the ones,

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Speaker 1: like ninety eight percent who are getting COVID and getting

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Speaker 1: hospitalized and ultimately dying from this. But you have to

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Speaker 1: keep in mind that we were in a really good place,

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Speaker 1: So even that dramatic of an increase still puts us

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Speaker 1: in a pretty darn good place as compared to where

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Speaker 1: we have been with the pandemic. Now, with regard to like,

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Speaker 1: what is the stock market thinking about here? I think

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Speaker 1: part of this is for a lot of the pandemic

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Speaker 1: last year, you and I and a lot of other

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Speaker 1: folks were like scratching our heads because it just kept

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Speaker 1: going up and up, especially remember when the cases were

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Speaker 1: sky as possible. How is this justified? And there hasn't

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Speaker 1: really been any correction since then, So I think part

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Speaker 1: of this, Yes, it's spurred by the fact that the

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Speaker 1: caseload is going up, the fact that there are a

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Speaker 1: couple localities that are flirting with some new restrictions. But

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Speaker 1: I also think that there was sort of like this

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Speaker 1: not that the stock mark had been over exuberant for

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Speaker 1: a long period of time and was probably due for

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Speaker 1: a correction as well. However, it is really interesting, while

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Speaker 1: most stocks overall were down yesterday, one of the things

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Speaker 1: that was telling that indicates it's related to where the

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Speaker 1: pandemic is right now is which stocks actually performed well.

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Speaker 1: Chief among them grocery stores, krober and places like that.

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Speaker 1: Those stocks had a very good day yesterday, which tells

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Speaker 1: you that investors had on their minds like, Okay, if

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Speaker 1: we do go back into lockdown procedures, what are the

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Speaker 1: places are, what are the stocks that are going to

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Speaker 1: do really well. Well, even if we do go back

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Speaker 1: into that into that mode, now, the other question is

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Speaker 1: is it realistic or is it likely that we're going

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Speaker 1: to re enter a mass lockdown mode. I personally just

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Speaker 1: don't see it, and I think there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of fear mongering about this,

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Speaker 1: particularly like you know, the right is very anti lockdown,

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Speaker 1: so when you see something like masking in LA, like

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Speaker 1: it's important to pay attention to and see where this

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Speaker 1: is going. I just do not think that the public

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Speaker 1: has any appetite for mass lockdowns. Again, I don't think

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Speaker 1: that you're going to see the Biden administration, whose central

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Speaker 1: promise was returned to normal, wanting to go back into

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Speaker 1: full lockdown mode. So I'm highly skeptical that we're going

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Speaker 1: to see another mass wave of lockdowns. Are you going

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Speaker 1: to have individual localities, particularly in urban liberal places, places

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Speaker 1: like LA potentially places like New York that institute some

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Speaker 1: type of mask mandates or social distancing mandates or those

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Speaker 1: sorts of things. As we enter the fall of caseloads

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Speaker 1: continue to go up. Yes, Is it going to be

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Speaker 1: anything like what we experienced before? I highly, highly, highly

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Speaker 1: highly doubt it. I highly doubt it as well, but

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Speaker 1: I am washing this filter through and that's why I

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Speaker 1: went ahead and I found this. Let's put it up

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Speaker 1: there on the screen. This is from the Columbus Dispatch,

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Speaker 1: So this is what's filtering through to local media and

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Speaker 1: where local conversations are happening. The title for those who

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Speaker 1: are listening is with delta variant looming, could poorly vaccinated

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Speaker 1: Ohio face return of lockdowns and mass And what you

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Speaker 1: have there is you have basically a speculative comment with

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Speaker 1: several quotes from people inside the public health community and

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Speaker 1: more who are pushing for mass lockdowns and more mandates.

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Speaker 1: And what they point to is the fact that seventy

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Speaker 1: percent of adult Ohioans won't be vaccinated until about May

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two, given what the rates are there

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Speaker 1: in Ohio. Now, all of that being said, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that you won't see some sort of resistance to this.

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Speaker 1: I definitely think that will be the case. I don't

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Speaker 1: think any red state in the country will lock down.

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Speaker 1: Will the Red state? Well yes, But and that's why

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Speaker 1: I thought this was significant, is to see ian this

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Speaker 1: even floated like in the Columbus Dispatch. I thought Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: like this actually is beginning to happen. It's an elite

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Speaker 1: driven conversation. LA brings back the indoor mass mandate. If

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Speaker 1: New York and all of them we could go back

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Speaker 1: to kind of a weird two tiered lockdown system for

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Speaker 1: the states. I think this is all really bad. And

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Speaker 1: my biggest fear around this is what we were discussing yesterday,

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Speaker 1: is if LA brings back mask mandates, it sends the

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Speaker 1: message that getting vaccinated was pointless. Like the more that

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Speaker 1: you bring back mass mandates, more lockdown procedures and more,

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Speaker 1: then what was the whole point. The whole point of

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Speaker 1: getting the shot was so we didn't have to do

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Speaker 1: this anymore. And I said it yesterday, but requiring vaccinated

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Speaker 1: Americans to continue lockdown procedure and mask mandates is asking

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Speaker 1: those people who did what they were asked to do

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Speaker 1: to have more regard for the help the people who

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Speaker 1: are unvaccinated. Those people decided to make a choice. There

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Speaker 1: is nothing wrong with that. You're allowed to make a

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Speaker 1: choice here in this country. That being said, you are

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Speaker 1: at a higher risk of having a more severe case

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Speaker 1: of COVID and that's on you at this point, and

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Speaker 1: it's the government policy is basically crafting this strange thing

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Speaker 1: where they're like putting in authority and using it with

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Speaker 1: the guys of we already made this public choice, like

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Speaker 1: two people, We told them you can either get vaccinated

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Speaker 1: or not, and that is what's going to push us

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Speaker 1: towards normalcy. Now we've generally reached that threshold where forty

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Speaker 1: nine percent of total US population of adults who are

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Speaker 1: fully vaccinated. So I just worry about trickle down effects

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Speaker 1: which could cause a lot more social chaos as we

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Speaker 1: move forward. I'm just a lot more skeptical than you

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Speaker 1: are that this is going to be widespread. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's not a single Republican politician in the entire country

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Speaker 1: that's going to push any kind of lockdown measure, not

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Speaker 1: at all. And the states that are facing the major

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Speaker 1: spikes right now, they're all Republican states. I mean it's oh,

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Speaker 1: Hi is actually not really on that list. The big

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Speaker 1: increases are in Florida, Ronda Santis obviously, Arkansas, and Missouri.

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Speaker 1: Those are the top three states. You can see if

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Speaker 1: we can put that map back up on the screen,

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Speaker 1: you can actually see exactly where they are. And it's

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Speaker 1: worth remembering what this map used to look like I

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Speaker 1: mean it used to be the entire country looked the

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Speaker 1: way that Missouri looks right now. Basically so Missouri, Arkansas,

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Speaker 1: you see some mount breaks in Louisiana, you see Florida,

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Speaker 1: you see a little bit Alabama, a little bit of Mississippi.

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Speaker 1: Those are all Republican states. There is not one governor

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Speaker 1: of any of those states that is going to go

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Speaker 1: back into full lockdown mode. I just don't see it.

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Speaker 1: So are you going to have one off things like

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Speaker 1: LA where you've got, you know, a political incentive, you

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Speaker 1: have a large portion of the population that is very

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Speaker 1: committed to like their pandemic era masking routine. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you might have someone off things like that. Are you

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Speaker 1: going to have massive nationwide I just don't see it.

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Speaker 1: The Biden administration so far has shown to be pretty

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Speaker 1: savvy about where Americans are with how they feel about

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Speaker 1: lockdowns and where they are with regards to the pandemic

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Speaker 1: and not wanting to be put in these like they

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Speaker 1: have authoritarian instincts in other directions. We're about to talk

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Speaker 1: about Facebook, and I actually think that that is related

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Speaker 1: to this story in that what they want to do

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Speaker 1: is for any of these coronavirus hot spots and places

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Speaker 1: where people aren't vaccinated. They want to say that's the

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Speaker 1: fault of Facebook, it's the fault of misinformation. It's not

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Speaker 1: on us. We didn't have anything to do with it.

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Speaker 1: So look over there. That's going to be their response.

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Speaker 1: By and large, Joe Biden's central promise of his campaign,

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Speaker 1: the only thing that he really ran on was We're

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Speaker 1: going to get back to normal. So I'm highly skeptical

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Speaker 1: that we're going to have mass lockdowns. If the stock

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Speaker 1: market was in fact reacting to the idea that we're

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Speaker 1: going to have mass lockdowns, like these people are off times, idiots,

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Speaker 1: and it's a good time to buy, is you know?

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Speaker 1: And I think there was a correction. This is all

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Speaker 1: fake anyway, as we all know, there was like a

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Speaker 1: correction that was waiting out. But what does that even mean.

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Speaker 1: So so anyway, if this is all in response to

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Speaker 1: oh my god, I think we're going to have lockdowns again,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a very overwrought wave of the game.

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Speaker 1: I hope you're right. I could just be colored because

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Speaker 1: I know the lunatics that run the city and who

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Speaker 1: live in the city, who would love to bring those

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Speaker 1: mask mandates, Joe Biden DC would be the type you

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Speaker 1: see it. I'm going to see outdoor masking again within

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Speaker 1: a week. I'm already ready for preparing storics, preparing my constitution,

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Speaker 1: going on Zillow browsing compounds out in the woods. That's

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Speaker 1: probably where let's go ahead and uh, let's look at

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Speaker 1: what Joe Biden had to say about the stock market

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Speaker 1: drop yesterday. Let's take a listen. It turns out capitalism

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Speaker 1: is alive and very well. We're making serious progress to

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Speaker 1: ensure that it works the way it's supposed to work

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Speaker 1: for the good of the American peace people. So for

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Speaker 1: all those predictions of doom and gloom, six months in,

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Speaker 1: here's where we stand. Record growth, record job creation, workers

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Speaker 1: getting hard earned breaks. Look, we brought this economy back

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Speaker 1: from the brink, and we designed our strategy not only

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Speaker 1: is provide for a temporary boost, but to lay the

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Speaker 1: foundation for long term boom that brings everyone along. So

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Speaker 1: you can see they're you know, not really reacting as

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Speaker 1: big or reacting in the way exactly as you said.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that be like, Look, we're going for long term boom,

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Speaker 1: not setting doom and gloom expectations. That is really what

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Speaker 1: their political valance needs to be within the race. I

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Speaker 1: hope you're right, Crystal. I really do. Like you said,

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Speaker 1: maybe the bankers and me are idiots, But watching that happen,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, this could be some

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Speaker 1: sort of slow roll feedback loop into at least trying again,

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Speaker 1: and even that I think would diminish vaccine hesitancy, or

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Speaker 1: it would increase vaccine hesitancy, diminish the case of the vaccine,

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Speaker 1: and diminish public confidence in a lot of these people

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Speaker 1: even more so, you know, we're already at rock bottom.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about Facebook. And this has to

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Speaker 1: do more with Joe Biden, who was during the same

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Speaker 1: news conference, which is that, yes, we brought you the

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Speaker 1: news that on Friday. Whenever he was asked about Facebook,

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Speaker 1: what's your message to Facebook? Biden explicitly said Facebook is

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Speaker 1: killing people, and I somehow found myself defending Facebook being like,

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Speaker 1: you know, sorry, that's actually not how it works. It

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Speaker 1: turns out we have mass institutional distrust all across the

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Speaker 1: United States. If you didn't get the numbers, it is stunning, Crystal.

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Speaker 1: I know we talk about it every day, but even

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Speaker 1: then seeing it quantified is amazing. Only forty nine percent

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Speaker 1: of Americans are fully vaccinated, like fifty six percent have

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Speaker 1: had one dose. That's forty four percent of adults in

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Speaker 1: this country who said Nope, I'm not doing it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And if you think about how much the mainstream has

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Speaker 1: said that you should get it. Every Republican politician, the

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Speaker 1: President of the United States, throwing the full force of

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Speaker 1: the US government, the medical community, was Sean Kennedy being like,

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Speaker 1: go on and get the vaccine. I believe it is.

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Speaker 1: You want to know how crazy things are. Sean Hannity

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Speaker 1: is making sense these days, and Fox and Friends is

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Speaker 1: being responsible. So that's where we're at right now. And

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Speaker 1: even then, forty four percent of people say no, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to take it now. If there's a variety

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Speaker 1: of reasons for that. I actually don't think medical misinformation

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Speaker 1: is the chief reason. I'll be very controversial and say this.

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Speaker 1: I really think it comes down to a cost benefit analysis,

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Speaker 1: which we'll talk about with Michael Brennan Doherty, and people

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Speaker 1: like I just don't trust you. And look, I see

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Speaker 1: it organically in terms of comments whenever I talk about

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Speaker 1: the vaccine and more, people like experimental use. And look,

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Speaker 1: we could talk endlessly about why the efficacy. At this point,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of people have taken maybe where we're

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Speaker 1: a billion people have taken it and are completely fond.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in terms of the dropping numbers.

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Speaker 1: But look, if you really really think about it, it

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Speaker 1: comes down to this, I don't trust you, and that

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Speaker 1: is a core societal problem. And you know, I think

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Speaker 1: Biden maybe recognized this. You had to walk it back

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Just take a listen, though, because he's

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Speaker 1: still he's still leaning very heavily on the whole misinformation thing.

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Speaker 1: Facebook isn't killing people. These twelve people are out there

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Speaker 1: giving misinformation and you wanted listening to it, is getting

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Speaker 1: hurt by it. It's killing people. It's bad information. My

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Speaker 1: hope is that Facebook, instead of taking it personally and

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Speaker 1: somehow I'm saying Facebook is killing people, that they would

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Speaker 1: do something about the misinformation, the outrageous mid misinformation about

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Speaker 1: the vaccine. That's what I meant. So there you can

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Speaker 1: you can see there. Of course, he's still leaning very

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Speaker 1: heavily on the misinformation. I do think the White House

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Speaker 1: continues to make a big mistake. Vaccinated or unvaccinated Americans

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Speaker 1: are going to feel persecuted in terms of going after

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Speaker 1: information sources that they may trust. Number one and number two,

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Speaker 1: which is that the best way to combat that misinformation is,

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Speaker 1: like I said, go and find people who have credibility.

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Speaker 1: Black Americans are the least likely in America to get vaccinated.

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Speaker 1: Go find people amongst low institutional trust Black Americans and

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Speaker 1: have them go to the South and say here's why

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Speaker 1: I think you should do it. Same thing amongst lower

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Speaker 1: middle class Whites, same thing amongst lower middle class Hispanics.

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Speaker 1: And yet I don't see any actual creative thinking going

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Speaker 1: on in the White House. They just want to cast

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Speaker 1: their blame onto people who are posting on Facebook. Do

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Speaker 1: I think those people on Facebook are responsible and you know,

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Speaker 1: are purveyors and misinformation. Yeah, but you know, misinformation only

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Speaker 1: works whenever there's a deep foundation in order to play

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Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, when there's a fundamental mistrust there that

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Speaker 1: you can sort of prey on with your misinformation. This

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Speaker 1: is people who already want a reason. Yeah, there you

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Speaker 1: go to not get the vaccine and to mistrust it,

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Speaker 1: and then they have a story that backs it up.

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Speaker 1: So you're just sort of like filling in the blanks

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Speaker 1: for them, but the skepticism was there to start with.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm really surprised I have not seen and

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Speaker 1: I know we've both been on the lookout for it.

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Speaker 1: I just haven't seen much actual data and research about who,

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Speaker 1: well we know who's not getting vaccinated, but why, Like,

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Speaker 1: we really haven't seen. There's a lot of guesswork and

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Speaker 1: people like using whatever their political lenses to try to

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Speaker 1: get inside of the minds of people who are unvaccinated.

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Speaker 1: But I just haven't seen all that much in terms

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Speaker 1: of concrete evidence of what strategies have worked so far,

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Speaker 1: what the reluctance still is. What percent Because this is

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Speaker 1: a big question for me, it's not clear to me.

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Speaker 1: What did you it's like forty four percent who haven't

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Speaker 1: gotten vaccinated at all so far, somewhere around that for adults.

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Speaker 1: What percentage of that is really hardened? Like, hell no,

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Speaker 1: there's no way, no one's going to talk me into it,

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Speaker 1: going to be convinced I'd rather take the risk of

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Speaker 1: getting coronavirus, et cetera. Like what percent is really hardcore

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Speaker 1: and what percent is either persuadable or there's been some

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Speaker 1: logistical hurdle or other reason they haven't gotten it where

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Speaker 1: maybe they could be moved on the margins, because from

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Speaker 1: the little bit of data I've seen, I'm convinced that

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Speaker 1: of that forty four percent, there's still a decent chunk

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Speaker 1: that could be open to the vaccine if they didn't

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Speaker 1: have a work logistical hurdle or a childcare logistical hurdle

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is that is keeping them from going

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Speaker 1: out and actually getting this vaccine. I'm convinced there's still

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Speaker 1: a chunk that could be persuaded. There's some people you're

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Speaker 1: just not gonna I hope. So bottom line, and that's

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Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying, which is we got to shake

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Speaker 1: things up and change things completely. I mean, I know

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Speaker 1: it seemed cringe. I thought the Olivia Rodrigo thing was good.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you know that she's a teen. You know,

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Speaker 1: a seventeen year old has a lot of fan base

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Speaker 1: amongst people who are really young gen z like TikTok

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Speaker 1: all of that. I'm like, that's kind of exactly what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about here. We just go and find people

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Speaker 1: who have credibility within groups who you are seeing. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was hugely shared on Facebook too. I have to

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Speaker 1: say that Driver's License song I despise, sorry, but I

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Speaker 1: when that song comes on, I really would to kill myself.

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Speaker 1: My girlfriend loves Ngty and like, yeah, I know, she's

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Speaker 1: like something about like she's like sings about getting ice

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Speaker 1: cream like this chick is seventeen. She's eighteen now at

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Speaker 1: eighty But whatever, It's not for me anyway. I'm not

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Speaker 1: the target audience. I've already got my vaccine and I'm old,

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Speaker 1: so right, but I'm still rocking out to Blank eighty two.

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Speaker 1: I do think I think you're right though, that that

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Speaker 1: they identified a group which is young people who they

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Speaker 1: think are still reachable, and tried to find someone who

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Speaker 1: has some credibility within that group. And that's not a

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Speaker 1: bad strategy. Well work or not, I just honestly, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know that we have the data

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Speaker 1: or the research to say it, but it's certainly worth

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Speaker 1: it try. When I see the Biden administration doing this

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Speaker 1: Facebook stuff, to me, it's a signal that they've given up,

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Speaker 1: that they're looking for a scapegoat rather than a solution.

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Speaker 1: That's what I really think this is about. This is

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Speaker 1: about being able to say it's these twelve actors on

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Speaker 1: Facebook spreading into misinformation that are killing people and it

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Speaker 1: really has nothing to do with us, and there's really

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Speaker 1: nothing we can do about it. Facebook will like yell

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Speaker 1: at you and will castigate you. Are they actually got

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Speaker 1: to like force Facebook to sensors that will suggest this

429
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: or that. But I don't think this is actually about

430
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: looking for some sort of action or solution or policy.

431
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: I think this is about finding a scapegoat, which by

432
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: the way, is also what Facebook said, and I think

433
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: they're kind of right about that, you know. And I

434
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 1: gotta tell you, I was pissed off yesterday before we

435
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: played the Jens Hockey clip we're about to show you.

436
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: She was asked whether the White House would ask Trump

437
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: in order to cut a PSA to get vaccinated, and

438
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: they were like, well, we don't think we should have

439
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: to invite him. Trump is a vain man. If Joe

440
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 1: Biden called him up and was like, Trump, I need

441
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: you to do this, I think personally he would do

442
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: it and be you don't think that's worth it? I do.

443
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, Biden, if you really want

444
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: to heal the soul of the nation and all that,

445
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: call the guy who you defeated for president and just

446
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 1: be like, look, Donald, we have our differences. I need

447
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: you to cut this video. There are a lot of

448
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: people who trust you. And then if Trump projects him,

449
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: then Trump is the jackass in that situation. And they

450
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: can leak it, but they're pulling it down being like,

451
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: oh listen, yeah, is it annoying you have to stroke

452
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: stroke the former president's ego in order to cut a

453
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: PSA to go get vaccinated. Yeah, it is. And Trump

454
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,479
Speaker 1: is an extraordinarily vain guy. Well he's the one who

455
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: got elected, so whatever he is, what it is, he

456
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: has a lot of credibility with millions of the people

457
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: who won't get vaccinated. I think they should ask him.

458
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: I don't know why. It's so crazy, And you know,

459
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: the press, there's a lot of discussion around this, which

460
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: is just a lot of wish casting. Everybody wants to

461
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: say like, oh, it's all you know, boomer whites who

462
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,479
Speaker 1: are not getting vaccinated, who watch Fox News. There's some

463
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: of that, But I mean, like I said, nobody seems

464
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: to want to talk about the fact that black Americans

465
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: are the least likely to be vaccinated in the United States,

466
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: and if they do, it's some like oh, Tuskegee whatever. Yeah,

467
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: maybe maybe I definitely think that plays a part, but

468
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: you know, it's also been a long time. Maybe it

469
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: doesn't have anything to even do with that, and it's

470
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 1: just deep lack of institutional trust. Go and find people

471
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 1: who are I don't know, musicians, anyone, you know, radio hote,

472
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: somebody like Charlemagne the god Right. Ask him to ask

473
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: the Breakfast Club and all those people to cut those ads.

474
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: But they don't want to. I mean, the last time

475
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: Biden talked to Charlemagne so well, so I guess I

476
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: understand why they would want to. But this is part

477
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: of what I'm saying. If you really want to be

478
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: the president, if you really want to put it all

479
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: behind you, unite the count. If your actual goal is

480
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: getting people vaccinated, call Trump tomorrow. Call people who have

481
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 1: deep credibility in the black community. Call people have deep

482
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,239
Speaker 1: credibility amongst lower middle class Hispanic people. Those are If

483
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: you did that, lower middle class white Hispanics Blacks, all

484
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: of whom disproportionately are likely to live in the South,

485
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: not have access generally to organs of mainstream media and more,

486
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: we would have a ton more people get vaxxed. But

487
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: they don't want to do that. I'm actually skeptical whether

488
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 1: that would really work. I mean, we had, you know,

489
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: Barack who's more trusted, Like there are a few people

490
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: more trusted in the black community in the Barack Obama

491
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: who's come out and said the thing. But look, I

492
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: think all of it is worth a try, right, even Trump.

493
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: Remember we saw that focus group. Granted it was a

494
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: Franklin's focus group, and apparently his stuff is all like

495
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: completely invented nonsense. So I don't know why I'm citing

496
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: it right now, but he talked to these Trump utters

497
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: that were lying, Eh, if the President says we should

498
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: get vaccine, that doesn't really change their mind either. I

499
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: don't know that there's any politician who's really going to

500
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: change that core. I do think I am convinced that

501
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: there is some persuadable group within that forty four percent,

502
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: and it may be just proportionately young people who are

503
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: just looking at it like, yeah, I don't really feel

504
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: at risk, and I'm young and invincible and I don't

505
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: feel like it, So there may. I do think there's

506
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: some persuadable group. But for the hardcore, like hell no group, right,

507
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: that ship has sailed. It's sailed over years and decades

508
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: of built up institutional mistrust, which maybe you know have

509
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 1: come from different places depending on where you live and

510
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: what race you are, and what your personal experience with

511
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: the medical system has been. But look, all of this

512
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: is worth a try because it is genuinely about saving

513
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: lives and making sure that we can get back to

514
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 1: some sense of normalcy without having to continue to look

515
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: at these case numbers and be afraid. To your point,

516
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: let's say five to ten percent works. Ten percent of

517
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 1: the two hundred and nine million adults, that's two million people.

518
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: So if we got ten percent more, that's a lot, right,

519
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 1: I mean, and even five that's a million. So a

520
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: million extra people who don't have to worry about dying

521
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: from COVID or at the very least, you know, having

522
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: the least amount of symptoms possible as variants come. I

523
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: think that's pretty good trade off personally. And to your

524
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: point about what the White House is doing, well, you

525
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: know they're they're keeping the door open in terms of

526
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: a war with Facebook, and that's literally their words. Let's

527
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: take a listen to what she said. I don't think

528
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: we've taken any options off the table. That's up to

529
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: Congress to determine how they want to proceed moving forward.

530
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: But let me just note that we're not in a

531
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,719
Speaker 1: war or a battle with Facebook. We're in a battle

532
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: with the virus. And the problem we're seeing that our

533
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: Surgeon General elevated just last week is that disinformation traveling

534
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: through a range of mediums. Some of them are a

535
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: range of social media platforms, some of them are media,

536
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: some of them are through the mouths of public officials.

537
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: That bad information, inaccurate information about vaccines is killing people.

538
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: So there you go, we're keeping all options on the table,

539
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: continuing the escalatory war. I do think, like you said,

540
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: the best thing to do would be to try something else,

541
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: and instead of they're trying to find escapegoat, which I

542
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: don't think is the right strategy, both in terms of

543
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: trying to get people vaccinated, and I think people see

544
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: through it. I think that there's reason Biden had to

545
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: walk that back. His people were saying, this is totally absurd,

546
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: and they're trying to deplatform everybody from every platform or whatever.

547
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: That's completely ridiculous, pretty funny. One Bien's like, I'm not

548
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: trying to say Facebook is killing feeling like you literally

549
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: literally said that literally what you said. Right. Hey, So

550
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: remember how we told you how awesome premium membership was, Well,

551
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: here we are again to remind you that becoming a

552
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: premium member means you don't have to listen to our

553
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: constant please for you to subscribe. So what are you

554
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: waiting for? Become a premium member today by going to

555
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com, which you can click on in the

556
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: show notes. Now they're very interesting development yesterday, can put

557
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwald's tweet up on the screen here. So we

558
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: had the first January sixth rioter, guy named Paul Hodgkins,

559
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: who was sentenced on a felony guilty plea. What he

560
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: pled guilty to was something like obstruction of congressional proceedings

561
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: or something like that. Prosecutors wanted eighteen months in prison.

562
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: What he actually pled to and what he was sentenced

563
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: to was eight months in prison. So here's we could

564
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: put Michael Tracy's tweet up on the screen, which has

565
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: the details of what Paul Hodgkins did. So he trespassed

566
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: in the Capitol and then walking among the desks in

567
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: the Senate chamber. He was wearing eye goggles I'm not

568
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: really sure why that's that relevant. He took a selfie

569
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: style photograph with his cell phone, walked down the Senate

570
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: well where a few feet away several individuals were shouting, praying,

571
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: and sharing and using a bullhorn. He walked toward the individuals,

572
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: remained standing with them while they continued commanding the attention

573
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: of others, and then at about three fifteen pm, he

574
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: left the Senate chamber and he left the US Capitol building.

575
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: So there's a big conversation going on about whether this

576
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: sentence is appropriate given that Paul Hodgkins, based on what

577
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: we know, was non violent. You look, according to the

578
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: federal to the federal government here, who have all the

579
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: cameras and the records, I bet you if he was violent,

580
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: they would have said so yes. So according to the

581
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: federal prosecutors here, didn't attack anyone, didn't even deface any property.

582
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: What he's accused of doing is h entering the capital

583
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: unlawfully and taking a selfie in the Senate gallery. So

584
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: I really thought a lot about this one, Sagara, because

585
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: I don't want to have a knee jerk reaction to

586
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: this stuff, and I did think what happened on January

587
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: sixth was horrendous, and I do think that people who

588
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: were involved, especially people who were involved and we saw

589
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: some of the assaults on officers, the guy who was

590
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: getting crushed in the door, all of that, like you should,

591
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: there should be consequences for those actions that are commensurate

592
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,479
Speaker 1: with the actions that you took. However, you can't judge

593
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: this one individual based on the awfulness of the day.

594
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: You have to judge him on what his individ visual

595
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: part was and what actions were taken. So I tried

596
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: in order to you know, attempt to remove my own

597
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: bias from the situation, because I'm obviously not particularly sympathetic

598
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: to this group of people. I thought about, well, what

599
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: if it was like a Black Lives Matter protester who

600
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: went into a police station illegally that had already been

601
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, broken open by another group of protesters and

602
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: took a selfie and hung out for a while and

603
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: then left. Would I think that that action merited eight

604
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: months in prison? And the answer is no. You know,

605
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: what are my principles. I don't believe in this system

606
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: of you know, mass incarceration that we have constructed. I

607
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: don't believe that these sorts of like, you know, making

608
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,479
Speaker 1: a show of someone and sentencing them based on like

609
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: the totality of the day. I don't I don't believe

610
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: in that. That isn't core to my principles. So evaluating

611
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: the situation through that lens I have to say, like,

612
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: this seems like this really seems like throwing the book

613
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: at someone who was not ultimately violent in order to

614
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: make a statement about the terrible nature of the day.

615
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: And then the other thing here that I think is

616
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: relevant is the government really wanted to paint this as

617
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: a domestic terror. Yes, and you know, the judge didn't

618
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: really buy that. Again, ultimately what he pled to was

619
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: obstruction of congressional proceedings or something of that nature. But

620
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: the other thing that I really oppose is just casually

621
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: throwing around this word terrorism and using it, oftentimes as

622
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: a justification for furthering mass incarceration, for increasing surveillance, and

623
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: further empowering the national and security state. And so you know,

624
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: that sort of approach of the government is also something

625
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: that I find, you know, really troubling. No, I think

626
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: you're right, and that was the problem that I kind

627
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: of had with this. Look, it's actually pretty simple. Take

628
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter protester, for example, if he wandered

629
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: in to that, then no, Like, I don't think you

630
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: deserve eight months in prison. If you threw a molotov

631
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: cocktail at a police station or he threw one at

632
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: an actual police officer, yeah, I think you should go

633
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: to jail, probably for a while. And it doesn't take

634
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: a difference, It doesn't take a brain in order to

635
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 1: see that, and I think Americans would generally be on board.

636
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: The troubling part here is that they tried to use

637
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: the domestic terrorism and while Paul Hodgkins ultimately got eight

638
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: months in prison, they sought eighteen months. That's a year

639
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: and a half that the government was asking saying January

640
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: sixth was an activemestic terror and using that to color

641
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: the specific actions. I'm not defending Paul Hodgkins. The guy

642
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: looks like an idiot, Frankly, I'll just say it plainly,

643
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: in terms of wandering around going in there. At the

644
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 1: end of the day, he was in the Capitol building

645
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: for twenty five minutes. According to the government himself. He

646
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: walked in and he was like, WHOA, this is crazy,

647
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 1: took a selfie and walked out didn't do anything else.

648
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: If he defaced property, that's actually a different story. If

649
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: you go in pulled something down, you ripped up a desk,

650
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: or you're you know, zip tie guy, or you're one

651
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: of those people who who was like trying to break

652
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: through the glass or whatever with the vice president or

653
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: whatever on the other side, that's a whole other story. Folks.

654
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: That's actually completely different. If you're one of the ring

655
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: leaders or one of those people who pushed through the

656
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: barricade knocked a female officer on the ground, that is

657
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: completely different. But using, as you said, the totality of

658
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: the event, and I think a lot of Americans justified

659
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: outrage at what happened and using that to throw the

660
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: book at a guy like this, I think it also

661
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: reveals a lot of ridiculous, you know, kind of posturing

662
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 1: within the media, which is that frankly, outside of people

663
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: on the left, it's basically you and Glenn Greenwall Michael

664
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: Tracy were talking about this and that's it. Everybody else

665
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: is just silent. They're happy watching this guy, you know,

666
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: march to prison. Let's be one hundred percent honest. After

667
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: all those looters got off in New York City, people

668
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: were caring all of that and maybe even agree with that.

669
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, it depends. I think some

670
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: people will at least deserve a misdemeanor charge. But if

671
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: this is a Black Lives Matter protester, they would have

672
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: raised hell to have I mean, there's no way it

673
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: would have happened. Well, let all know that. But let

674
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: me flip that around too, because I think the hypocrisy

675
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,919
Speaker 1: goes both ways. Because you have a lot of people

676
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: on the right who they want to use Antithace way

677
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 1: too much and this is over the top, and he's

678
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: a political prisoner and all of this. There's a lot

679
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: of hypocrisy to go. But if this was Black Lives

680
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: Matter protesters storming the capitol, those very same people who

681
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: are saying that what's his name, Hodgekatch, that he's a

682
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: political prisoner and he's being wrongfully prosecuted in all of this,

683
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: they would say build the jail on top of these people.

684
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: They deserve to go away for a life. I mean,

685
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: you even see it in the commentary, because a lot

686
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: of the commentary from the right right now is like

687
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: they should with the Black Lives Matter protest, they should

688
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: have thrown the book at them. Well, I think that

689
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: everyone is sort of viewing this through their tribal partisan lens.

690
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: If your principal is lock them up, then your principle

691
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: here should be lock them up. If your principle is

692
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: believe in restorative justice. I think the mass incarceration state

693
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: goes way too far. I think that, you know, the

694
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: government throwing around these charges of domestic terror for their

695
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: own benefit, because that's the other thing too, is the

696
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 1: government really needs to make a show of we got

697
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: the bad guys, We're throwing the book at him. Justice

698
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: is being done, even though we know every step of

699
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: the way. Truly the government failed on that day, so

700
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: now they've got to overcompensate and show that they're getting

701
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: the bad guys. The other thing is that you know,

702
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: a lot of we haven't seen a lot of the

703
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: ringleaders who committed more of these serious crimes. We haven't

704
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: seen them be charged, we haven't seen them certainly be sentenced.

705
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: At this point. This was the first guilty felony plea

706
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 1: that we've seen. So I think there's also some cya

707
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: here happening from the government where they feel like they

708
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: need to make a show to the public that we

709
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: did our job. We got the wrongdoers, we got the

710
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: bad guys, and we're taking care of business when the

711
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: reality is that they failed from the start and if

712
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: they had it, none of this would ever have happened.

713
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: Three hundred percent right, And I mean, this is the

714
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: real issue. And we'll push the button here, which is

715
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: why haven't those ringleaders been come out? You know, We've

716
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: seen a lot of speculation online within the analyzing exactly

717
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: what happened there within the indictments around the use of

718
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: confidential informants. I'm not saying anything was organized or whatever.

719
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: I frankly literally have no idea, but I do think

720
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: it's important that a lot of that stuff come to

721
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: light and that as these things began to move through

722
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: the court system and we learn more. We already know

723
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: that there was that one undercover MPD officer that was

724
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: present there who he was like, I observed, you know,

725
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: so and so within that was just one and I

726
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 1: mean they would be idiots if they didn't have any more. Yeah.

727
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: We also know that the kidnapping plot that was disruptive

728
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: in Michigan with Gretchen Whitmer, that they had at least

729
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: twelve FBI informants the lead, one of which now is

730
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 1: in big I was going to say, the most cringe

731
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: photo I've ever seen was of that guy. He's like

732
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: took it with him selfie and yeah, so this FBI agent,

733
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: this is a little bit of a sidebars. Then we

734
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: were looking at about illustrie, our illustrious, brave men and

735
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: women of the FBI, the lead sort of witness for

736
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: the government, this special art. Yeah, this guy he's now

737
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: been arrested in charge with domestic time that puts u

738
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: and entrapment apparently against somebody else. Yeah. So anyway, we

739
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: know that the FBI infiltrated at least one three percent

740
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: group in Michigan very extensively, so you would think that

741
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: there were probably some other government informants and agents involved.

742
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying that they were the ringleaders, that

743
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: they're the ones that like catched this plot and pushed it,

744
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: but I mean we would like to know more, I

745
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: guess is what I will say. I would like to

746
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: know more, like to know a lot more about those folks. Okay,

747
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: big story, big developments down in Haiti, and this whole

748
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: story is fascinating for a lot of reasons. Of course,

749
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: as you all know President Joven al Moise, who was

750
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: recently assassinated in a plot that is wild and we

751
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: are still learning the details of the Haitian government says

752
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: this dude in Florida wanted to become the president, and

753
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 1: he hired these mercenaries, some of whom were Haitian American,

754
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: some of whom were Colombian. There's a lot going on there.

755
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: But the piece I want to focus on today is

756
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: there's been this power vacuum in the country. The Prime Minister,

757
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: a guy named Claude Joseph, basically right after Moise is assassinated,

758
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: tries to claim power and tries to claim international legitimacy

759
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: and tries to take command. He's the one who asked

760
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: the US to send in troops, which is of course

761
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: a horrific idea. Unfortunately, the Biden administration so far has

762
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: said no, although they are leaving that potential option on

763
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: the table, which is amazing. So initially the U and

764
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: the international community backed this guy. And just to give

765
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: you a little bit more of the context, part of

766
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: why there's such a question mark around who should take

767
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: the place of jovnal Moise is because Moise has been

768
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: ruling by decree, he didn't call elections even though he

769
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: overstayed his term in office. We backed him in that

770
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: by the way Trump did, and then Biden came right

771
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: in and continued the same Trump policy of backing this

772
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: essentially authoritarians, strong man dictator ruling by decree and writing

773
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: his own new constitution in Haiti. Because there were no elections,

774
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: there are very few remaining elected leaders in the country.

775
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: There are only ten members of the Senate remaining out

776
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: of supposed to be thirty. And there are no other

777
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: elected members of I don't know if they call it

778
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: the House or the Representative, the lower body, there's none

779
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: because there were no elections, so they're all gone. The judiciary,

780
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of the judges resigned because of Moe's overstaying

781
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 1: his term. Chief Justice in June died of coronavirus, and

782
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: there are multiple versions of the constitution, with three versions

783
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: of the constitution. There are multiple versions of the constitution.

784
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: In one of them, that Chief Justice, who has now

785
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: passed away because of COVID, would have been the successor.

786
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: So that's why this is such a big question mark.

787
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: And then oh, let me add on one more layer,

788
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 1: which is that Claude Joseph, who was the prime minister

789
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: under Moez. He had just been terminated, essentially replaced, and

790
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: a new guy was set to be sworn in as

791
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: prime minister in the following week. So that's the state

792
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,280
Speaker 1: of affairs. So initially, Claude Joseph country's leader in the aftermath.

793
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: We can throw the New York Times tear sheet up

794
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 1: on the screen now, so reading for this. Now, claud

795
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: Joseph was a country's leader in the aftermath of Moyes's assassination.

796
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: He will hand power now to Ariel Henry and join

797
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 1: a new unity government intended to keep Haiti stable. Haiti

798
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: has become a baseball throwne among foreign diplomats. That's according

799
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: to Joseph Lambert, the president of Haiti Senate, adding that

800
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: pressure from American diplomats was a major factor in the

801
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: reshuffling of Haiti's leadership. So this new guy who's now

802
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: going to take power, Ariel Henry, he was the one

803
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: who was set to be sworn in as prime minister

804
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: in the next week. So initially, the so called core

805
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: group of foreign governments and international organizations that basically see

806
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: themselves as running Haiti, which is outrageous, including the un

807
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: organization of American stage consistently a bad actor EU, the US, France, Spain, Canada,

808
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: Germany and Brazil. They had initially backed Joseph and now

809
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 1: they're throwing their weight behind this other guy, Ariel Henry,

810
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: who had been set to be sworn in as prime minister.

811
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 1: And we really don't know, Sager, why they switched horses

812
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 1: like this. We have no indication of what made them

813
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: decide that, you know, we should we should go from

814
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: Claude Joseph, who was the prime minister was going to

815
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: be taken out to this other dude. That's where things stand,

816
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: and I just think it's incredibly telling. And the Times

817
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 1: quotes a lot of Haitians who are very upset by

818
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: the way that like why do we Why are we

819
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: the ones who were saying, now we decided we're done

820
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 1: with this one. We're gonna pick this one now, Like

821
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: why are we in the position to do that? It's

822
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 1: really hard because you also don't know who do these

823
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: people have even democratic legitimacy within Haiti. There's actually literally

824
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: no way of knowing. I think some of it might

825
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 1: have to do again, this is total speculation, but his government,

826
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,760
Speaker 1: Joseph's government. He's the one who's releasing all the intel

827
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: that we at least know of the assassination, and some

828
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: of it has seemed pretty crazy. You know, mercenaries, Colombians,

829
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: American doctors and FBI in FORUMSBI informists. There's a lot

830
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: going on here. And my thinking is is like maybe

831
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: they found out something, maybe like within his role, or

832
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: like maybe he's not releasing something once again. But I

833
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: think the core point stands these people figure it out

834
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: for themselves. And you know, to be clear, it's not

835
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: America here. It's like the entire international collection, right, It's

836
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: like the European Union, Spain, Canada, Germany, Brazil called on

837
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: Saturday for the formation of a consensual and inclusive government.

838
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: And so it does just seem like it's such a

839
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 1: mess that a lot of international organizations which have interests

840
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: at least in Haiti, are kind of manipulating and pulling

841
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: the strings. Yeah, for over one hundred years. I mean,

842
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: you know, I went through some of the history here,

843
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 1: but backing dictators who were horrific and murderous because they're

844
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 1: anti communist, tossing out a democratically elected leader twice, John

845
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: bertrand Aristeine under Bush one and then Bush two, they

846
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: both got a chance to back a coup against him.

847
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: And then with regards to Moise, I think this is

848
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: really important. This is another New York Times tear street

849
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: we can throw up on the screen. This is what

850
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: I was alluding to. Both the Trump administration and the

851
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: Biden administration back this guy, even though he had what's

852
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: described as an increasingly autocratic rule, even though there were

853
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: massive protests in the streets against this dude, because he, uh,

854
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: there were allegations of major corruption, of basically being in

855
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 1: bed with the gangs that run much of the country

856
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,399
Speaker 1: at this point, And if I could read just these

857
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: first couple of paragraphs, it says, as protesters hurled rocks

858
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 1: outside Hades's national Palace and set fires on the streets

859
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: to demand President Joevenel Mawes's resignation, President Trump invited him

860
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: tomor a Lago in twenty nineteen, posing cheerfully with him

861
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: in one of the club's ordinate entryways. But lest you

862
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: think that this is a partisan attack, the very next paragraph,

863
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: after members of Congress warned that mister Mowes's anti democratic

864
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: abuses reminded them of the run up to the dictatorship

865
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: that terrorized Haiti in decades past, that we supported as well,

866
00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: the Biden administration publicly through its weight behind mister MOSE's

867
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 1: claim on power. So that was the state of affairs

868
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: when Moise was assassinated. And now you have just a

869
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,439
Speaker 1: complete and utter mess, and you still have this core

870
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: group the US, EU unas all trying to control the

871
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: fate of the Haitian people that should be in the

872
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: hands of the Haitian people. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right,

873
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: And it looks like it's a continuing troubling situation, and

874
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: I guess we'll keep an eye on it. We will

875
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: definitely keep an eye on it all right. Another interesting

876
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 1: development here, so Democrats starting to look towards twenty twenty two,

877
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: wanting to hold on to control of the House, control

878
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: of the Senate, which is obviously as narrow as it

879
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,439
Speaker 1: could possibly be. And what they are finding is that

880
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: a lot of Democrats in more rural areas in particular,

881
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: and more Republican leaning areas, are doing their darnedest to

882
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: distance themselves from the terrible, terrible, toxic Democratic party branding

883
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: I've been talking about for a very long time. For

884
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: years now, it has been incredibly effective just to throw

885
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi in an AD basically since twenty at least

886
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: since twenty ten. Throw just throw Nancy Pelosi in an AD,

887
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: run against any candidate, tie them to the National Democratic Party,

888
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: and you're done. And what's interesting here is they point out,

889
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 1: I think this is true that a lot of the

890
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: policies of the Democratic Party on economics in particular at

891
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 1: this point very popular. Right. We saw in twenty twenty

892
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: minimum wage fifteen dollars minimum wage passing easily in Florida.

893
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 1: At the same time the Democrats lose. To me, that's

894
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: like the perfect instance of the distance between the terrible brand,

895
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: which is filled with like contempt and condescension for most

896
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: of the country, and some of the policies which are popular.

897
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: I think the antitrust executive orders that Biden just pass

898
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: very popular. That's exactly right, Grossly and some other Republicans

899
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: in the Farm Bureau, these are conservative groups, they got

900
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: behind it. These are popular policies. I'm talking today in

901
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: my monologue about the child tax credit also extraordinarily popular

902
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: across partisan divides. However, just to spoiler alert here, this

903
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: never works like trying to distance yourself from the very

904
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: party that you're running in. It literally never works. I

905
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:28,879
Speaker 1: saw when I was running for Congress in twenty ten

906
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people were trying this game of saying

907
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: this Barack Obama guy, I don't know about him, and

908
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: I'm different from all of these other people. I'm not

909
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 1: like these other Democrats. There was a time in American

910
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,760
Speaker 1: politics where that was effective, where you could be a

911
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 1: Kentucky Democrat or you could be an Ohio Democrat or

912
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: whatever it is. That time has passed. All politics is

913
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: national now. So if you don't like the Democratic Party brand,

914
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: do something to change it. But you have no choice

915
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: but to be married to these people, and the voters

916
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: are very much going to see it that way. I

917
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: think that's the sad thing. And just to give you

918
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: an idea of like where some real fear is, the

919
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: free Beacon actually wrote the story. Let's put it up

920
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: there on the screen, which is shows that a majority

921
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: of this is according to Trafalgar, which you know a

922
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: year ago would have said was a joke, but they

923
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: actually were still the most accurate of twenty twenty. So true.

924
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 1: There you go, majority of Americans are not confident that

925
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris is ready for the presidency. And what we

926
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: really do see within that is that normally vice presidential

927
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: approvals will generally go kind of up because they don't

928
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: really do anything, they're not really present before the public.

929
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: Al Gore was just seen like okay, you know, I

930
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: don't mind Al Gore, Joe Biden. I mean, that's what

931
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: made him popular in America. Before that, he had no

932
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: public profile. But with Kamala Harris, it's pretty bad. I mean,

933
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: it just says that the majority of Democratic respondents even

934
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: will view her favorably, but it's still split. Forty three

935
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: percent of Democrats polled there said that they lack confidence

936
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: in Harris. And generally, what you're seeing with you know

937
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: first and generally what you're seeing here is that the

938
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 1: lack of confidence and we're using this as a proxy

939
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: for political talent. Is you know Tim Ryan, who's ad

940
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 1: we're about to show you he's running for Senate in Ohio.

941
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: They talk here about a Montana Democrat who is trying

942
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: to shirk off, you know, the national profile. You're always

943
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 1: gonna have Kamala Harris around your neck. And that's really

944
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: I think a big problem especially if she were to

945
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: ever be elevated to the top of the ticket. Just

946
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 1: the lack of political talent, the sheer just like odiousness

947
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: that comes through in a lot of her interviews will

948
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: just be hung around the neck. And you saw that

949
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: with Hillary. That's what happened with Hillary and the Democratic Party.

950
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: That's kind of what I think would happen here with

951
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: Kamala and the story though, I do think is fascinating because,

952
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: as you said, people always try I'm from College Station, Texas.

953
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: My congressman was Chet Edwards. He represented our county, which

954
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: at one point had or our district which had George W.

955
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: Bush's ranch, just so people have an idea of how

956
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: conservative it was, like an art lust twenty eight district.

957
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 1: He represented it for twenty years. He lost by I

958
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: think thirty something points in twenty ten after winning re election,

959
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: and he would be he was beating like every single

960
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: like guys who would run against him. I can't remember

961
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 1: his name. He was like, I'm a US Marine, I

962
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 1: deployed to Iraq. He'd beat him by like sixteen Yes,

963
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: it was amazing. It was probably AOC's fault, right, Yeah, No,

964
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: I mean I actually want to make that point, which

965
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: is that I know that a lot of people want

966
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,280
Speaker 1: to blame like AOC and squad for defining Democratic Party

967
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 1: in a way that's difficult to overcome an estate like

968
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 1: Ohio or another place. But the reality is Democrats lost

969
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: rural America a decade agoa literally in two thousand, a

970
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 1: decade ago. And this is another aside. The guy who

971
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: was AG secretary at that time, Vilsack, is now AG

972
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: secretary again and was, you know, great for big business

973
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 1: and agribusiness and monopoly is not so great for small farmers.

974
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: And I do think that is a small part of

975
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: why Democrats lost rural America. But the bigger point was

976
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: people like Pelosi and others within the party who look

977
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: down their nose at a lot of the country. And

978
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 1: I really don't even think it's particularly and these numbers

979
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: bear it out, like it's not even really particularly a

980
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: policy issue. It's an attitude issue. So you look at

981
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: someone like Pelosi, who's incredibly wealthy and as we are

982
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 1: going to talk about in another segment over the weekend,

983
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: got even more wildly wealthy during her time in office, somehow,

984
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: because she's just such a genius at picking stocks and

985
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: who feels very distant and very out of touch from

986
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: the reality that most Americans are facing. You have also

987
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: a very clever strategy and the part of Republicans to

988
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 1: just focus on the cultural issues where Republicans are more

989
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: aligned with rural America than Democrats are, and where by

990
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: the way, you don't really have to deliver anything. You

991
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: can just say the right words and signal that you're

992
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: on the right team. And that's been a very effective

993
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: strategy on the republic inside and Democrats have not Democrats

994
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,280
Speaker 1: rather than trying to win back voters. Max Alvarez always

995
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: makes this point, they just look for a new state.

996
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: They're like, Ohio's gone, good luck, Ohio, We're done with you.

997
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: What We're moving on to Arizona. We're going to pick

998
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: up Arizona Nex. So you know, forget you, We're moving away,

999
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,720
Speaker 1: which you've still got shared Brown representing the state. Like, clearly,

1000
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: some Democrat can still win in the state. Can Tim

1001
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,919
Speaker 1: Ryan still win in the state of Ohio? No, he can. Yeah,

1002
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: I don't think so. And this is funny, this is

1003
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 1: what they called out in the ad. In the entire

1004
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: three minutes of this ad, Tim Ryan never says the

1005
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: word I am a Democrat running in for the Senate

1006
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: in the state of Ohio, which Trump won by about

1007
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: eight points. Just look at this, I mean it could

1008
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: be a Republican ad. No football coach puts a team

1009
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 1: out on the field without a game plan, and right now,

1010
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: our workers need a game plan. We're competing with countries

1011
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: around the world for jobs, so in my mind, there's

1012
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: nothing more patriotic than investing in our team. Our people

1013
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: are workers. I'm not talking about handouts, talking about being

1014
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 1: prepared to win. The outer strength of our country is

1015
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: a reflection of the inner strength of our citizens. Come on, Brady,

1016
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: is this a pup of Bbish to work a place

1017
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: just like this? Till he lost his job? With thousands

1018
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: of others, how they lose your job? Well, somewhere along

1019
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 1: the way, something broke. We forgot what made us successful

1020
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 1: in the first place. It can't be businesses versus workers.

1021
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: This is a partnership, but that partnership needs to be redefined.

1022
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: We have to cut workers in on the deal. I'll

1023
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: work with anyone to rebuild our economy, but I will

1024
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: never sell out our workers. So I'm going to fix that. Well,

1025
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 1: we need to hit the reset button. We need to

1026
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: reimagine the entire thing. We need to invest in the

1027
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 1: businesses so they can create more jobs for even more workers.

1028
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 1: We need to step up our training in science and

1029
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: technology so the clean energy jobs come to Ohio today.

1030
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: We need to make huge investments into our public infrastructure,

1031
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: our roads, our bridges, are airports, broadband. We can actually

1032
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: revitalize manufacturing, secure US supply chains and make things here

1033
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: all right. I will say I'm calling for a moratorium

1034
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: on using your children in ads until we can figure

1035
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: out what the hell is shut down on shut down

1036
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 1: using kids. I mean, the kid is cute. I'm more

1037
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: just like you know, this hasn't about I don't like

1038
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: having people use their kids in ads. Think it's weird.

1039
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 1: So anyway, bottom line is three minutes of cringe there.

1040
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: But nowhere in those three minutes of cringe did he

1041
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 1: layer on the additional cringe that he's a Democrat. Right? No,

1042
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: but that's that's an important point, right, And I mean

1043
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 1: you watch that and you're like, man, this could be

1044
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 1: like a Republican ad. Honestly, I mean, outside of the

1045
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 1: word is clean energy. And look, I don't think it's

1046
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: gonna work. I think he's totally gonna lose, but it

1047
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,879
Speaker 1: is a good example of kind of like how people

1048
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 1: are trying to pull this out. Shared Brown could teach

1049
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people about how to do this. But honestly,

1050
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: the lesson from share It is be legit since like

1051
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven. That's right, that's all it is stand

1052
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: up for workers. And yeah, his whole businesses versus workers,

1053
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: that's not the thing. It's like, Well, actually I do

1054
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: need some adversarial relations there, but that's another story for

1055
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 1: another day. Wow, you guys must really like listening to

1056
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 1: our voices. Well, I know this is annoying. Instead of

1057
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: making you listen to a Viagra commercial. When you're done,

1058
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: check out the other podcast I do with Marshall Costsof

1059
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: called The Realignment. We talk a lot about the deeper

1060
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: issues that are changing realigning in American society. You always

1061
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: need more Crystal and Zagur in your daily lives. Take

1062
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: care guys, So Crystal, what are you taking a look

1063
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: at today? Well, like the stimulus text before them, the

1064
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 1: child tax credit has officially reached meme status. So I

1065
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: got my first child tax credit payment today, which means

1066
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: the government has officially paid me more child support than

1067
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: my baby daddy ever has tell us you can see

1068
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: it from the Okay, class people will make we need

1069
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: them big clean million. So, according to Vox, hashtag child

1070
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: tax Credit and hashtag child Tax Credit twenty twenty one,

1071
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: those both went wild on TikTok with tens of millions

1072
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: of us each. As you may know, the Child Tax

1073
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 1: Credit provides parents with three hundred dollars per child under

1074
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: six and two hundred and fifty for kids six to seventeen.

1075
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: So if you've got three kids, you could be getting

1076
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: a max benefit of nine hundred dollars per month, and

1077
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: that is real money. What's more, the credit is not

1078
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: just for low income families. It starts phasing out at

1079
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty k for most married parents, which

1080
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: means that some eighty eight percent of children in thirty

1081
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: nine million households are going to benefit. That matters a lot.

1082
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: The fact that comfortably middle class family is will receive

1083
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: the benefit makes it much less likely that it's going

1084
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 1: to be welfare queen to death. So knowing all of

1085
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: that shouldn't be all that surprising that the sudden infusion

1086
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: of cash to millions of pomps and dads might provoke

1087
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: a bit of a sensation, especially when you consider that

1088
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 1: the people who will be helped the most by the

1089
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: money are also the people who have been the most

1090
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: routinely screwed over by a corporate run government that consistently

1091
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: protects the interests of the wealthy over the many. What's

1092
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: interesting is that usually on this show we think about

1093
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: cultural culture and we think about material politics as being

1094
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: totally separate. Here and also with the stimulus jacks, you

1095
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: have a collision of culture with populist economics. The very

1096
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: visible and widespread nature of the program made it into

1097
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 1: a cultural moment, the type of thing that normal people

1098
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: are talking about in normal settings, not just weirdest like us,

1099
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 1: and that is actually really powerful. In fact, cash politics

1100
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: as culture could be exactly the thing to combat these

1101
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 1: shiny objects and sectarian silliness of our typical culture war battle.

1102
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: Democrats are certainly betting on the power of cash. For now,

1103
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: the credit is temporary. Biden's COVID stimulus included just one

1104
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 1: year of funding for it. The proposed reconciliation package they're

1105
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 1: talking about funding it through twenty twenty four, and that date,

1106
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 1: by the way, not an accident. Effectively, the Biden administration

1107
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: and congressional Democrats. They want to create a kind of

1108
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: household financial cliff for the twenty twenty four general election,

1109
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: forcing Republicans to either back making the tax credit permanent

1110
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: or get hit over the head repeatedly with the fact

1111
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: that they plan to take money out of the pockets

1112
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 1: of thirty nine million households just as Biden. Probably Biden

1113
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: is running for reelection, so cement and endorse a big

1114
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: Biden win or take an extraordinarily unpopular position. That's going

1115
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: to be the choice offered to Republicans. As one dem

1116
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: strategist told The Daily Beast, I can all but guarantee

1117
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: you Democrats are going to tattoo it to their foreheads,

1118
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: and not to do it would be criminal, So a

1119
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: sort of natural experiment is being set up. We know

1120
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: Republicans are run on being a bulwark against critical race theory,

1121
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: canceled culture, and cultural liberalism in general. They might dust

1122
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 1: off the old Tea Party era anti deficit rhetoric too,

1123
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: but clearly the energy in the party at the grossroots

1124
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: level is pure culture war. And I may wish it

1125
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: were otherwise, but these cultural freakounts, they're pretty powerful when

1126
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: politics has not worked for a long time to actually

1127
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 1: improve material well being. It collapses down to culture war,

1128
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: which team pisses off the people I hate the most,

1129
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: who can at least yell into the wood in a

1130
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 1: way that I find satisfying rather than enraging. But I

1131
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: do think that Republicans forgot one important lesson from their

1132
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: near miss back in twenty twenty. A lot has been

1133
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 1: made of Latino voters, in particular, shifting to the GOP puzzle.

1134
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: Journalists took themselves down to the Rio Grand Valley to

1135
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 1: find out what exactly was going on there, and one

1136
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 1: of the answers that they got was pretty straightforward. Residents

1137
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 1: got a stimulus check with Trump's name on it, and

1138
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: that seemed pretty good to them. One former mayor told

1139
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal that for the Similars checks, he

1140
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 1: started to see memes of Latinos holding out their hands

1141
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: to Papa Trump for money. If we speak in the

1142
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: language of memes, he said, there were a lot of

1143
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: Trump as this fatherly figure who was gonna help you.

1144
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: Not only that Pelosi and the Democrats they may well

1145
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: have been punished by voters for playing games with stimulus checks.

1146
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 1: Leading up to the election, something we talked about a

1147
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 1: lot at the time, and McConnell and the Senate Republicans

1148
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: may well have been punished by voters in Georgia for

1149
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: blocking another round of checks. These are all budding signs

1150
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: that cash politics could truly reign supreme. One hallmark of

1151
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 1: the neoliberal era has been making government policy as byzantine

1152
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: and non obvious as possible. Everything's means tested, everything's loaded

1153
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 1: down with paperwork, and just frankly, really confusing. Technocrats loved

1154
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 1: to create these programs and benefits that you didn't even

1155
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: really know you were receiving. Obamacare is a pretty good

1156
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: example of that. Whole lot of people benefit from the

1157
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 1: program without having any idea that they're actually benefiting from

1158
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 1: the program. So even when the government might actually be

1159
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 1: doing so something for you, it can be kind of

1160
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: hard to tell or extremely onerous in order to claim

1161
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 1: that benefit checks are the polar opposite of that. They

1162
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: are in your face to the point of being a

1163
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 1: cultural sensation, and maybe just maybe fighting culture war with cash.

1164
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 1: Culture war is exactly the way out of an endless

1165
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: sectarian healscape. This is the test saga, because it's going

1166
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: to be one more thing I promise. Just wanted to

1167
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 1: make sure you knew about my podcast with Kyle Kolinski.

1168
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: It's called Crystal, Kyle and Friends, where we do long

1169
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: form interviews with people like Noam Chomsky, Cornell West, and

1170
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwald. You can listen on any podcast platform, or

1171
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: you can subscribe over on substack to get the video

1172
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: a day early. We're gonna stop bugging you now enjoy

1173
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: all right, Sager, what are you looking at? Well? Aside

1174
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 1: from my own personal biases, one of the reasons that

1175
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 1: the initial success of this newly independent show meant so

1176
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: much to me is it a validated a thesis that

1177
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 1: Crystal and I have that literally the largest market for

1178
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: news in America right now is for those Americans who

1179
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: hate the news here on YouTube, on Spotify or Apple

1180
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 1: podcasts or substack. The tens of millions of people turned

1181
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: away from the mainstream media to seek literally anything else

1182
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 1: that doesn't make them hate one another. That is why

1183
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: I was especially amused in the last few days when

1184
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: I saw twin pieces of news. One that formerly MSNBC's

1185
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 1: Casey's Hunt is leaving the five am hour of that

1186
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: network for CNN two. CNN is planning the big launch

1187
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 1: of a new streaming platform. Now, we laughed a bit

1188
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:31,959
Speaker 1: about it yesterday because now they're entering the same game

1189
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: as us. But the details were unveiled yesterday and it's

1190
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 1: just too good to let it pass by. CNN is

1191
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 1: announcing CNN Plus, the most ambitious thing they've done since

1192
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 1: Ted Turner started the network. They say, here's how they

1193
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 1: describe it quote. The new venture called CNN Plus, was

1194
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: formally announced on Monday morning. It will exist side by

1195
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 1: side with CNN's existing TV networks and will feature eight

1196
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 1: to twelve hours of live programming a day. Wow, that's

1197
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 1: what people ask for, right, eight to twelve hours a

1198
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 1: day of more CNN. But it honestly gets worse. So

1199
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 1: much of the deals that CNN have signed, which say

1200
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: that it's live programming, can only be available on the

1201
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: Cable News Bundle, So that means it can only offer

1202
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 1: up new content centered around quote CNN's most promising talent,

1203
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: as well as quote a thriving community component for fans

1204
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 1: to connect directly with anchors and experts in real time.

1205
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 1: This is hilarious to me for a number of reasons,

1206
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: because I will sit here and do something you very

1207
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: rarely will hear from me. CNN actually is good at something.

1208
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 1: That something is whenever some crazy stuff is happening, like

1209
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: riots in January sixth or last summer, a timely news conference,

1210
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 1: like in the early days of coronavirus car chases, you

1211
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 1: get the idea, the parts where they're not talking and

1212
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 1: they're showing you basically what is going on. That stuff

1213
01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 1: is very really valuable actually and pretty expensive to resources

1214
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 1: all over the world. It's the original selling point of

1215
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 1: CNN and of cable news generally. The problem for America

1216
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: happened whenever cable news executives realize that actually, not that

1217
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 1: much stuff happens all the time, which demands live attention.

1218
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 1: So they had a whole bunch of airtimes that they

1219
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: have to fill in between lucrative advertisements. That's when hell

1220
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 1: was unleashed on us. The networks were raking in money

1221
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 1: on advertising, so in between the ads, they built comparatively

1222
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: cheap studios in New York and Washington, and they just

1223
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 1: hired a bunch of people to talk and talk and talk.

1224
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,959
Speaker 1: And fundamentally, the problem with cable news today is none

1225
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: of it is actually about the news. It's about inane

1226
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: and stupid commentary in between advertisements for gold, biagra or

1227
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 1: blood pressure medication. The only way to keep you hooked

1228
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: in between all of those ads is what is to

1229
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 1: dial up your broad pressure. Tell you why the Democrats

1230
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: are the reincarnation of Satan, or why fascism is just

1231
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 1: around the corner after this ad. That's how we lost

1232
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: our country. That's how we ended up with Trump and

1233
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 1: the tension in the air where millions of Americans hate

1234
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 1: each other at levels we've just never seen before. The

1235
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 1: tragic story of CNN is the story of America. What's

1236
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: worse is this now. What they want to do is

1237
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: replicate all of that crap that they've pushed onto their

1238
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: boomer audiences and then bundle it up eight to twelve

1239
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,919
Speaker 1: hours more per day and give it to you. There's

1240
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: just one problem, for once in their lives, they have

1241
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 1: to deal with a real market. Most people are captured

1242
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 1: by the news oligarchy. CNN, Fox and MSNBC have a

1243
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 1: virtual monopoly in terms of TV news, which is available

1244
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:43,919
Speaker 1: as part of the cable news bundle, which is where

1245
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 1: tens of millions of people get their information, like it

1246
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,959
Speaker 1: or not. Efforts to try and disrupt that are fool

1247
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,800
Speaker 1: hardy at best, probably doomed because it's an old industry.

1248
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 1: But the people who get their news that way are old,

1249
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 1: and if you want to survive in streaming, you have

1250
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 1: to come out here and hack it with the big boys.

1251
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: And this is where we owed all of you, my

1252
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 1: friends triumph out here on the internet. Yeah, Google, Facebook, Twitter,

1253
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 1: they control everything, but the old media players are irrelevant

1254
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: and like us here at breaking points, they have to

1255
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: actually compete for your eyeballs and more importantly, your dollars.

1256
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 1: CNN is about to discover the real truth people who

1257
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 1: cut the cord, people who aren't old and glued to

1258
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: their TV to tell them what to think. They freaking

1259
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:32,599
Speaker 1: hate CNN, Fox and MSNBC's idiotic commentary which ruined our

1260
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 1: politics in the first place, and they will vote with

1261
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:38,719
Speaker 1: their clicks and their subscription dollars. I'm not saying it's perfect.

1262
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: Lots of people who I can't stand are making great

1263
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: livings out here in the independent ecosystem, but I will

1264
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:46,799
Speaker 1: pretty much take any of the cringe segments on YouTube

1265
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:49,960
Speaker 1: over the poison that CNN has been peddling now for years.

1266
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: CNN is about to find out the hard way just

1267
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 1: how little people actually value their contributions to American life.

1268
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: They can't hide behind the fact that if you want

1269
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 1: to watch sports, or if you want to watch live news,

1270
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 1: you're literally forced to watch them. Now they're competing out

1271
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 1: here with the rest of us, and honestly, I wish

1272
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: them luck in a devious kind of way, because I

1273
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 1: can't wait to watch it fail as practically anything else

1274
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 1: rises up and beats them at their previously rigged game.

1275
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 1: And I think that's what it comes down to, Crystal,

1276
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 1: Which is that joining us now? National Reviews Michael Brendan

1277
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:25,759
Speaker 1: Doherty's author of a new piece in National Review where

1278
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: he's talking about how if you want to have people

1279
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 1: get vaccinated, that the unvaccinated cannot feel disrespected. This is

1280
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 1: part of a big thing that we've talked about in

1281
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 1: today's show about how exactly to reach people who have

1282
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: so such low institutional trust and more. Michael, we really

1283
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 1: appreciate you joining us. Thanks man, Thank you so much.

1284
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be here. Absolutely. Let's just start

1285
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 1: off with this, what do you think are some of

1286
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:53,759
Speaker 1: the pathologies that we have seen as to why about

1287
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 1: forty four percent of the US population does not want

1288
01:09:56,960 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 1: to get vaccinated right now. Well, I mean, the the

1289
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 1: overwhelming reason is the simplest reason, which is they don't

1290
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:09,640
Speaker 1: fear COVID as much as they fear the vaccine. You

1291
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 1: people who are enthusiasts for the vaccine may find that

1292
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 1: very silly or enumerate or misinformed, but millions of people

1293
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:28,479
Speaker 1: decided long before the vaccines were approved, that COVID was

1294
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: overblown for them, that this was something that mainly affected

1295
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: people over sixty five, it wasn't very serious, especially for

1296
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:40,679
Speaker 1: younger people who are generally healthy and fit, and so

1297
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 1: they don't want to take the risk of a vaccine,

1298
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 1: whatever that risk may be. They've been told there are

1299
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:52,719
Speaker 1: very few adverse effects noticed, but they worry about things

1300
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 1: like long term effects, and they know from their own

1301
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: reading and study that, of course a new vaccine for

1302
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 1: a novel disease in the midst of a pandemic, it

1303
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 1: can't have full FDA approval, it doesn't yet, and it

1304
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: can't have long term studies on its effects. And so

1305
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 1: many of them are just making a calculation that they

1306
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 1: feel is completely rational, that they don't want to take this,

1307
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:22,719
Speaker 1: and some would go further, and they feel that because

1308
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 1: public health officials have occasionally lied or misrepresented the truth

1309
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: about risks that they've covered up potentially the lab leak theory,

1310
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 1: and tried to censor that. They feel that there's you know,

1311
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:39,719
Speaker 1: many of them feel that there's something maybe a little

1312
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 1: underhanded or sinister at work in the vaccine effort, and

1313
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 1: they've also find I think what would caused me to

1314
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 1: write the piece was that in just talking to the

1315
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 1: vaccine skeptics in my own family, in my among my friends,

1316
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 1: I noticed that none of the public health apparatus was

1317
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 1: a dressing their stated concerns. Right, it would just be

1318
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 1: these kind of messages about what we already know about

1319
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 1: the vaccines, and they're concerned about what we don't know,

1320
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 1: and they find it creepy that millions of dollars is

1321
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:20,640
Speaker 1: being spent reaching out to them and yet they're not

1322
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 1: being spoken to like adults with real concerns. And like

1323
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 1: I said in the piece, I think one thing that

1324
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 1: would go a long way towards re establishing trust is

1325
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 1: just acknowledging some of the concerns that it's normal to

1326
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 1: feel this way about a new vaccine, that it's normal

1327
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: to wonder about long term side effects, that no we

1328
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 1: can't know with one hundred percent certainty that there are

1329
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:53,679
Speaker 1: no long term effects from these vaccines, but you could

1330
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 1: try to explain in a medically plausible way why that's

1331
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:02,320
Speaker 1: such a low problem ability. Event Now, I suspect that

1332
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 1: that's something true and something public health officials could do,

1333
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:11,640
Speaker 1: but it's beyond my competence as a pundit to do that.

1334
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:16,080
Speaker 1: So it's on someone else to give this explanation. And

1335
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 1: I know for many people it feels like lowering themselves

1336
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:23,640
Speaker 1: to address people they deem to have made an irrational

1337
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,760
Speaker 1: choice already. But if you want vaccines in arms at

1338
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:30,679
Speaker 1: this point, this is kind of what you have to do.

1339
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: And if you treasure your political animosities or your disdain

1340
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:38,680
Speaker 1: for people who don't have the vaccine more than the

1341
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 1: campaign to vaccine, well maybe that's an indicator that you're

1342
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 1: not as afraid of a larger unvaccinated population being out

1343
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 1: there as you think you are. Maybe you're okay with it. Michael.

1344
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 1: You know, there's been a lot of focus on white

1345
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 1: conservative men in particular and the high levels of vaccine

1346
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 1: hesitancy there if you look across and this is something

1347
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 1: a graphic that we showed a couple times now on

1348
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,639
Speaker 1: the show. If you look across racial groups, it's actually

1349
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 1: African Americans overall who have the lowest vaccination rate, And

1350
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 1: there seems to be, you know, a sort of you know,

1351
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:16,760
Speaker 1: through line between what your income level is and what

1352
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:19,960
Speaker 1: your education status is and whether or not you get

1353
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 1: vaccine vaccine. Of course, African Americans disproportionately lower income in

1354
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:28,240
Speaker 1: this country. So the reasons that you're giving here based

1355
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: on your experience talking to people you know in your circle,

1356
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:33,599
Speaker 1: your family and your friends, et cetera. Do you think

1357
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 1: that those reasons are specific to sort of white conservatives

1358
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:41,040
Speaker 1: or do you think that they go across racial groups. Well,

1359
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 1: in general, I think the feeling of the feeling that

1360
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 1: vac's resistant people or vacs hesitant people have that is

1361
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:55,599
Speaker 1: common is this idea of I don't fear COVID as

1362
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:58,719
Speaker 1: much as I fear the vaccine. Right, It's as simple

1363
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:05,639
Speaker 1: and primal and elemental as that. But for different groups,

1364
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 1: there can be different mixtures of or different reasons for

1365
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 1: simple mistrust in public authority, whether it's you know, for

1366
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 1: maybe for white conservatives, they feel like, you know, they

1367
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:25,560
Speaker 1: may feel like public health officials endorsed the BLM protests

1368
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,639
Speaker 1: last summer when there were still restrictions on outdoor activity,

1369
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 1: and they may think, these people really don't have my

1370
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 1: interests at heart in some fundamental way, and there's something

1371
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 1: dishonest at work. For Black Americans, it may be an

1372
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 1: experience of something where they've heard about, you know, their

1373
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 1: mother or their sister seemingly being treated differently when she

1374
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: delivered a baby at a hospital than other patients. They

1375
01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:55,639
Speaker 1: may hear other stories of how black people are prescribed

1376
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 1: pain medication and different levels than white people. They may

1377
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:04,400
Speaker 1: hear all this simply distrust the medical establishment or all establishments.

1378
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 1: So and you have to speak to that as well

1379
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 1: in your public health messaging campaigns. You know, it's interesting, Michael,

1380
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:16,599
Speaker 1: I saw I bizarrely saw a lot of criticism against

1381
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:18,800
Speaker 1: you from the on this piece, from a lot of

1382
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,200
Speaker 1: people in the center left who were like, if Michael

1383
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 1: was real, he'd be like Chucker Carlson's full of it

1384
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:30,639
Speaker 1: and he's killing people in the Fox News Rupert Murdoch machine.

1385
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:34,200
Speaker 1: Uh what I mean? I obviously know I think your

1386
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:36,840
Speaker 1: response is correct, But what do you say to those

1387
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 1: critics because maybe people are here saying the same thing,

1388
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,920
Speaker 1: but like, you have a responsibility to call these people out.

1389
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 1: What do you make of the argument, Well, I think

1390
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:51,080
Speaker 1: I disagree with Tucker, But among my friends and family,

1391
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: nobody even has a cable television subscription. They don't watch Tucker.

1392
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:02,240
Speaker 1: They get their information from social media that it's shared laterally,

1393
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 1: usually across Instagram would be the most common thing, Like

1394
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:11,200
Speaker 1: people sharing Instagram stories of someone having a strange adverse

1395
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 1: reaction and maybe a dissenting doctor that is hyping this up.

1396
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 1: Maybe they follow you know, Martin Kohldorf of Harvard, who was,

1397
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:25,920
Speaker 1: you know, a pioneer in designing vaccine safety systems, and

1398
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 1: he's saying, well, not everyone has to get vaccinated. That's

1399
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:34,360
Speaker 1: a bit of a superstition. So the sources of where

1400
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: they get their information are various. But the big thing is,

1401
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 1: I would say, is this is a demand side issue.

1402
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:48,720
Speaker 1: Average people aren't. It's not like misinformation comes through the

1403
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:52,679
Speaker 1: Internet and just hits them. It's they have a gut reaction,

1404
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:58,559
Speaker 1: a gut feeling and response about whether the COVID itself

1405
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 1: is overblown or whether public health officials are being manipulative

1406
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:06,040
Speaker 1: in some way, and they have this fear, the fear

1407
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,680
Speaker 1: of the unknown and listen they know. For instance, you know,

1408
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 1: people say like, okay, well just research the history of

1409
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 1: MR and a theory which goes back fifty years. We've

1410
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 1: known theoretically that this should work for a very long time,

1411
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 1: and now it's here, and so you should celebrate that.

1412
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:27,640
Speaker 1: And they would just recently say like, yes, that's a

1413
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:31,800
Speaker 1: theory on paper, but science is about empiricism, so this

1414
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 1: is a live experiment. And some of them, I mean,

1415
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:37,680
Speaker 1: one of my best friends from high school said I

1416
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:42,960
Speaker 1: am willing to be the control group, and that's his attitude.

1417
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 1: So you have to address those fears first, and the

1418
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 1: misinformation would take care of itself. Yeah, so Michael, let

1419
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:52,880
Speaker 1: me ask you on that. I think we're all on

1420
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:55,040
Speaker 1: the same page that you know, some of the comments

1421
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:58,880
Speaker 1: from the Biden administration recently are deeply troubling and authoritarian.

1422
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:00,880
Speaker 1: And the idea of that the government is going to

1423
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,160
Speaker 1: tell all the social media platforms that you can be

1424
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 1: like internet death penalty for this or that person that

1425
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:11,240
Speaker 1: they're choosing. Not good, right, But oh yeah, let's put

1426
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 1: that aside. Okay, would it work. Let's say that, you know,

1427
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:18,640
Speaker 1: the Biden administration goes and these twelve people that they

1428
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:21,320
Speaker 1: keep talking about are spreading so much of the misinformation.

1429
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 1: Let's say they get them offline, they're no longer able

1430
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:29,200
Speaker 1: to share whatever vaccine misinformation they're sharing. Do you think

1431
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:33,400
Speaker 1: that would work to help reduce the fears of some

1432
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 1: of the people who continue to be vaccine hesdent. No.

1433
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:40,040
Speaker 1: I mean, censorship is the thing that I hear most

1434
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 1: often about as setting off people's spidery sense that something

1435
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 1: is sinister about This is a great point. It totally

1436
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:53,400
Speaker 1: increases their distrust and like I said, what they want

1437
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 1: to hear is are some of the most common things. So,

1438
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 1: for instance, the unit US government runs the Vaccine Adverse

1439
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: Events Reporting site THEIRS. Its data is public, it's available

1440
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 1: for everyone, and during this vaccination drive, there's just been

1441
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 1: this huge surge of reporting across it of adverse events. Now,

1442
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 1: this is something you don't have to be a doctor

1443
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:23,040
Speaker 1: to put enter an event. I mean people have said

1444
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 1: that they've turned into the Hulk or other things. There's

1445
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:29,200
Speaker 1: some really silly stuff on there, but lots of vaccine

1446
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:34,160
Speaker 1: skeptics look at that site. That's not misinformation, that's government

1447
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 1: hosted information, and no one in the government is really

1448
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 1: contextualizing it. For them, and so all that's left is

1449
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:47,200
Speaker 1: for Alex Berenson or Tucker Carlson to give context to

1450
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:52,439
Speaker 1: that information. MIT found in a study of people who

1451
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:55,600
Speaker 1: dissented from public health during COVID that they tended to

1452
01:20:55,720 --> 01:21:00,360
Speaker 1: use the same exact data sets as proponents of public

1453
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 1: health orthodoxy, they just interpret it in a different way.

1454
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: And so my view is that to counter you know

1455
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:11,759
Speaker 1: what you deem misinformation, you don't need censorship, You need

1456
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 1: patient contextualization, You need more information and better information. Censorship

1457
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:23,680
Speaker 1: would have the exact opposite effect that they want. And

1458
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:25,840
Speaker 1: so Michael, I think this is where it kind of

1459
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 1: we were having a debate on the show today, which

1460
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 1: is that to what extent? Here's what I was saying.

1461
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 1: My basic posit was this, It was like, instead of

1462
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 1: talking about Facebook, look at the actual populations lower middle

1463
01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 1: class blacks, whites, and Hispanics, find people who have credibility

1464
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:45,080
Speaker 1: within those groups and send them through the Deep South

1465
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:49,280
Speaker 1: or wherever where you see hotspots and people with vaccinations.

1466
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 1: But what Crystal was rightly saying is I don't know

1467
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 1: if it work. We pointed to as it was a

1468
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:58,519
Speaker 1: past Frank Lunz focus group, So take that with you know,

1469
01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 1: the biggest grain of salt you can refine. But they

1470
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 1: were like, look, I support Trump, but if he told

1471
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 1: me to get vaccinated, I wouldn't do anything about it.

1472
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:08,759
Speaker 1: Do you think that they're it wouldn't have any impact

1473
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:12,240
Speaker 1: on my decision? Is there is there a way for

1474
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:16,320
Speaker 1: quote unquote influencers, people with credibility and more, to message

1475
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 1: this or is it more of a bottom up phenomenon

1476
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 1: that we're seeing. It depends how those influencers go about it.

1477
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:29,960
Speaker 1: You know, if it's something completely independent, where it's literally

1478
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 1: just like a well known Internet celebrity but just volunteering

1479
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 1: their experience, maybe you know, some of them don't get

1480
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 1: vaccinated and then they get seriously ill and they share

1481
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:43,680
Speaker 1: that story and it goes viral. That would be more

1482
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:47,519
Speaker 1: effective than something that is branded as a government ad,

1483
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 1: because then it feels like that's taking advantage. I mean,

1484
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 1: what I think you'll find in what some studies are

1485
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:58,680
Speaker 1: starting to indicate is that vaccine hesitant people, some of

1486
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:02,000
Speaker 1: them do end up taking the vaccine. They really are

1487
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:04,559
Speaker 1: telling the truth when they say they were waiting to

1488
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 1: see what would happen, and some of the key influencers

1489
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:11,440
Speaker 1: for them turn out to be their GP. Right. They're

1490
01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 1: a doctor they've known for years. And it's a problem

1491
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:17,799
Speaker 1: for America because lots of people don't have a GP.

1492
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:21,040
Speaker 1: And maybe one reason why the UK has had so

1493
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:25,479
Speaker 1: much success in uptake is because the NHA system, whatever

1494
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 1: you want to say about it, people can find their

1495
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:31,600
Speaker 1: GP and they can get information from someone they know

1496
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:36,760
Speaker 1: that has a medical background. When they're just looking at

1497
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 1: Tony Fauci telling you that you know your three year

1498
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 1: old has to mask outdoors or something like that, I mean,

1499
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:46,800
Speaker 1: you might just think like this is some kind of

1500
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:50,120
Speaker 1: fraud is at work here. Okay, guys, thanks for watching.

1501
01:23:50,160 --> 01:23:52,200
Speaker 1: That was a fifteen minute preview of what will be

1502
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:55,600
Speaker 1: a longer conversation available to all of our Premium subscribers,

1503
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 1: which is we give them two long form interviews a month.

1504
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:00,439
Speaker 1: Michael is one of the perfect people to do that with.

1505
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:02,840
Speaker 1: If you want to become a Premium subscriber today, link

1506
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:05,280
Speaker 1: is right down there in the description notes Premium members

1507
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:07,719
Speaker 1: who've get the long form interview with Michael a little

1508
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 1: bit later today. We love you all so much and

1509
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:12,000
Speaker 1: we will see you all on Thursday. Love you guys,

1510
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:28,800
Speaker 1: see you Thursday. Thanks for listening. To the show guys,

1511
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 1: we really appreciate it. To help other people find the show,

1512
01:24:31,400 --> 01:24:33,360
Speaker 1: Go ahead and leave us a five star rating on

1513
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:36,920
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Really helps

1514
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: other people find the show. As always special thank you

1515
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:43,880
Speaker 1: to Supercast for powering our premium membership. If you want

1516
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:46,920
Speaker 1: to find out more, go to Crystalansager dot com