1 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Welcome to the second of Bloomberg's podcast, where 2 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: we're talking about our Belton Road series now showing on 3 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Television and with me as has Slender Ammon, who 4 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: hosts episode two. Has okay, I watched this episode. You 5 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: have been everywhere. I wouldn't see everywhere, but yes, Southeast Asia, 6 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: South Asia, Central Asia. So yeah, quite interesting. Well, it's 7 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: been quite a right that the show starts in Mumbai, 8 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: and I thought it was actually really very interesting about 9 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: you know, how India is sort of resisting the Chinese 10 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: Belton Road innovations or initialve if so, tell us just 11 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: a little bit about what what's happening with with India 12 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: and how India used this. I think India is pretty uncomfortable, 13 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: pretty apprehensive. China's putting a lot of money into infrastructure 14 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: and India's immediate neighbors. We're talking about the likes of Pakistan, 15 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: Sri Lanka, Moldives and as you know, David, some of 16 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: these borders are pretty contentious and we've seen political tensions 17 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: between Indian Pakistan, for example, that's been going on for years. 18 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: So India fields pretty uncomfortable. China is helping to develop 19 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: these countries which it could have trouble with, you know, 20 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: down the road, and there's also the risk of debt. 21 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: If these countries go into debt, then India could be 22 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: in trouble as well, right right, right, But you know, 23 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: some of the shots that we see in the program 24 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: are just stunning. But there's one where you're in in 25 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: the Mumbai railway station and I just wondered to myself 26 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: and I saw all these crowd surging around you. You know, 27 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: what was it like actually doing that stand up? Oh 28 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: my god, it was crazy. It was actually very facult. 29 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: It was rush hour. It was so crowded you could 30 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: hardly see me. I was. I was really lost in 31 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: the sea of morning commuters. We actually had to wait 32 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: for a time when it eased a little so I 33 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: could be in shot, you know, even know what I mean, 34 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 1: even if it's just for for a moment. It was 35 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: difficult because security was also tight, so we had to 36 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: find that perfect moment where you could see me and 37 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: security wasn't really looking at us. So we got creative 38 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: and it was one take. We didn't have any other options. Yes, 39 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: it was one probably had to do it in one take. 40 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: I could certainly see you because you were wearing one 41 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 1: of your trademark eye popping colored drisk That's just that's 42 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: a funny one because you know, I thought I was 43 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: gonna pop, but you know, if you know Indian and Indians, 44 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: there were a lot of colors as well, so I 45 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: didn't really pop that much, but popped enough to be 46 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: seen on camp. But tell me, look at you also 47 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: came out with some extraordinary statistics about India's rail travel 48 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: and India's rail network. Just give us a little taste 49 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: of what were you know what it's it's pretty mind blowing, 50 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: right if you take a look at the numbers. I mean, 51 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: in his railway one of the largest railway networks in 52 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: the world. I didn't know that until I did this series. 53 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: If you put the tracks back to back, then they 54 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: will circle the globe one and a half times. And 55 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: if that is not enough, eight billion passengers a year. 56 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: That's the official number. The unofficial could be even more. 57 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 1: You're not even the ones riding on the roof ron, yes, 58 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: the roof everywhere. I mean, you know, it's amazing how 59 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: many people they can pack in that in that in 60 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: the in each what's that cubicle or each box you know. 61 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: But when the interesting thing also that came out of 62 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,839 Speaker 1: there was that actually there is Chinese investment going into 63 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: infrastructure in India. That you mentioned that the aii B 64 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: is investing in in the in the in the metro 65 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: in Mumbai. The ai B of being, of course, the 66 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: Asia Infrastructure Investment Bank, which we started up by China 67 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. Well, yeah, in fact, India 68 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: is one of the founding members. I think they have 69 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: twenty one founding members. And AIB has actually committed a 70 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: lot of money I think in access of you know, 71 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: three billion dollars to invest in India and infrastructure projects. 72 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: And I think part of the reason for that is 73 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: that India's infrastructure needs are so great. I mean, India 74 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: can't put the bill itself, so it needs a lot 75 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: of help. So it gets AIB, It gets you know, 76 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: funding from the Asian Development the World Bank, so it 77 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: gets a lot of help. And I be being the 78 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: new kid on the blog in terms of you know, financing, 79 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: being able to finance these projects. It's it's come to 80 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: India's rescue in a way. There was also an interesting 81 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: point made by one of the guests who you interviewed, 82 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: um who drew the distinction between investing for commercial reasons, 83 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: you know, investing in these infrastructure projects for commercial reasons 84 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: and strategic reasons. Just tae that out a bit. What 85 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: was that about? Well, I guess you know, like if 86 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: you take a look at the Belt and Road initiative, 87 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: there are some people who say that China's in it 88 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: because as strategic reasons, it wants to be in some 89 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: of these countries because it wants to be there for 90 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: political and strategic reasons. Um So people are pretty cautious. 91 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: It's not just about economics, it's not just about helping 92 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: a country get to where it wants to be, get 93 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: to the growth it wants to be at, but also 94 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: for China's own reasons. I think that that is the 95 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: distinction that make I think a lot of people also 96 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: talk about the case of Jibouty, where China's invested a 97 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: lot of money and infrastructure about it also has its 98 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: first military base there. Well, you're right, and you know, 99 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: in a way, you know, if not China, then who 100 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: if you talk about Jibouti, would the US want to 101 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: invest infrastructure there? You know, so as much as you 102 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: want to be suspicious of China, you also have to 103 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: think who ealth if not China, well, Kazakhstan noting the 104 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: doing the investment, but who has in terms of a 105 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: completely different story in terms of whether they're going to 106 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: welcome uh, you know, in terms of welcoming China's investment 107 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: or not. And I have to say those opening shots 108 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: of Astana are absolutely extraordinary. I was just amazed by 109 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: how modern this city is. What was it like there? 110 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: You were surprised, I was really surprised. I mean it 111 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: was interesting to see because it's so desperate. You know, 112 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: on the one hand, you have the Kazak steps, you know, 113 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: vast open mouth and mouth and mouth of grassland where sheep, cows, horses, 114 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: grape like in Mongolia. Really yeah, right, and you know 115 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: you almost can see, I don't know, you can see 116 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: how it was how it was before. And there on 117 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: the other hand, you have such amazing modern infrastructure, the skyline. 118 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: It's it's just amazing. It's it's so futuristic. So it 119 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: was really kind of, um, I don't know, it was 120 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: a bit mind boggling. It was desperate and away. I 121 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: couldn't I couldn't really put the two together. But it 122 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: is a very interesting space a very interesting country and 123 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: a country we should all be watching because I think 124 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: it is on its way to making its mark, if 125 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: not you know, in Central Asia, but the rest of 126 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: the world as well. Kazakhstan seems to be really buying 127 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: into the whole project. Though you know, some of the 128 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: other numbers that came out were pretty boggling. Twenty eight 129 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: billion dollars being invested on fifty one projects. How is 130 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: it changing Kazakhstan's economy has I think it's changing the 131 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: economy in a huge way. If you walk around the city, 132 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,239 Speaker 1: if you just walk around the streets, you'd be surprised 133 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: to see, you know, branded shops you get, you know, 134 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: your max Mara, you have your I didn't quite see Chanelle, 135 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: but I saw a lot of the branded goods there, 136 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: and I think that is a reflection of how the 137 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: country has grown, and I think it has aspirations to 138 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: grow even faster. I mean, this is a country pretty 139 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: much based on oil and gas. I think that's driving 140 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: the economy, but it also wants to be I guess 141 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: the middleman, you know, in terms of trade, because a 142 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: lot of countries, if you want to move your goods 143 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: from east to west, Kazakhstan is possibly is where it's 144 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: possibly the middle ground, the meeting point. Yeah. Well, I 145 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: mean another thing that came out actually was a conversation 146 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: with the deputy Foreign Minister who said that the volume 147 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: of container traffic going through Kazakhstan has doubled every year 148 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: for the past seven years and that they're looking to 149 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 1: take five billion a year and revenues is just mind boggling. Yeah, 150 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: and and it's precisely what we talked about Kazakhstan being 151 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: the buckle of the belt and Road, so you can 152 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: kind of visualize the role it plays. I mean, that's 153 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: that's one side of it. The other side is that 154 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: it wants to be I guess, the hub for financial markets, 155 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: capital markets. I mean, this is a new ambition. I 156 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: think it started maybe about five years ago when UH 157 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: President neural Nur Sultan as A Byef by the way, 158 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: he's been the only president of the country has had 159 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: um you know, he he came up with this planned 160 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: this vision to make Kazakhstan play a regional role and 161 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: you know that and trade. I think that's what's going 162 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: to drive Kazakhstan going forward. It's a pretty interesting, I 163 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: guess ambition because you never ever think Kazakhstan was going 164 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: to be a financial hub, right, I mean when you 165 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: think Kazakhstan, what do you think of definitely not a 166 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: financial hub. It wants to be a hub for Islamic finance, 167 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: for instance. So it is a role it is really pursuing. 168 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: And so that's that brings me back to the question 169 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: I had actually about the opening shots when you go 170 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: into the into the Kazakhstan part, because you've got these 171 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: drones that are flying over. I think that's a new 172 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: international financial center, right with that big circular building. Well, 173 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: you're right, it's it's huge from whatever what I understand. Well, 174 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: I mean to those who are listening to this podcast, 175 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: I can absolutely recommend that you take a look at 176 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: at this Built and Road episode because of some of 177 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: the pictures are just amazing, the dry port for example. 178 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: Actually we don't even know whether we were allowed to 179 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 1: have drones, but we did anyways, um, because I think 180 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: it's the only way we can show how immense the 181 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: place really is. I mean, you don't get a sense 182 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: of kazakhstann until you see it from the sky. I 183 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: mean that that drone shot. I mean, if you don't 184 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: have that drone shot. You can never imagine how huge 185 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: and VARs and you know, the potential of the country 186 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: just really quite quite quite quite extraordinary. Now, from Kazakhstan, 187 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: we go to Southeast Asia and the next time I 188 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: see you, you're in Bangkok standing in the middle of 189 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: a of a road. The places that they get you 190 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: to stand as quite extraordinary sometimes. But tell me more 191 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: about Thailand and how this sort fits into the whole 192 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: built and road strategy. I think the Belton Road is 193 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: applicable not just to Talent, but the rest of Southeast Asia. 194 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: I think, as you can imagine, most of the countries 195 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: here in Southeast Asia, emerging economies in need, in desperate 196 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: need of infrastructure. I think the countries here need in 197 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: access and I don't know, I think, uh, the number, 198 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 1: the exact number escapes me, but a few hundred billion dollars. 199 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,719 Speaker 1: So that's the magnitude of what is needed in terms 200 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: of infrastructure in Southeast Asia. And Thialand is just one 201 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: of them. I think as it pursues growth, it also 202 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: needs to address its infrastructure needs, which are kind of 203 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: bursting at the team's old. It needs to move more goods, 204 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: it needs to move more people across the country. So 205 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: you know, this is where bodies like organizations like a 206 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: I be coming to effect again, I mean coming to play. 207 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: They provide some kind of funding so that infrastructure can 208 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: be built. I think that the Philippine Finance Secretary made 209 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,239 Speaker 1: a good point because he says that in the Philippines, 210 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: for example, we're not building airports and hoping people will 211 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: come to them. We're building airports because we are absolutely 212 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: bursting at the scenes. And I suppose he's making the 213 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: distinction against say the airport that was built in Sri Lanka, 214 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: which I believe Harvard gets any airplanes coming to it, 215 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: and the port there as well, which has very few 216 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: ships visiting every week. So as you say the Southeast 217 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: Asian situation is we need infrastructure because our capacity is 218 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: so tight. Well, you're right, Um, even take at the Philippines. 219 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: Just take a look at the airport. I mean it's 220 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: it's really old. It's not meeting demands. And he made 221 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: that point precisely. Each country really has to look at 222 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: it at its own interests, and right now it's trying 223 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: to meet the needs of the people a rising middle class. Uh, 224 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: And that story is Southeast Asia really the rise of 225 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: the middle class in everybody now is more mobile. People 226 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: want to move, so infrastructure like roads, railways, airports really 227 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: need to be upgraded. It has been slow for the 228 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: Philippines in particular. I think infrastructure projects have been slow 229 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: to get off the ground, uh, and they've run into 230 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: all sorts of issues, and that is quite a reflection 231 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: on what's happening in emerging markets. Indonesia is another country 232 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: in need of infrastructure but having a lot of trouble 233 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: getting these infrastructure projects off the ground. Yeah. Well, I 234 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: suppose we have to, like say, it's not completely smooth sailing. 235 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: We've also it just had the new Prime Minister in 236 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: Malaysia pushing back on some Chinese infrastructure projects. That has 237 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: to do with debt as well. I think where Malaysia's concern. Uh. 238 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: They're looking at a huge debt which was not expected, 239 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: which was passed on from the previous government. UH. Martin Mohammad, 240 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,359 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister, has had to review all these projects 241 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: with China because it's costing the country a lot of money. 242 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: And by reviewing, I think he's kind of delaying most 243 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: of these projects. He can't take on both these projects 244 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: right now because they just don't have the capacity financially, 245 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: so that will have to wait. But in terms of 246 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: infrastructure needs, I mean even Malaysia has to build these 247 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: infrastructure if it wants to remain one of the tigers 248 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia. Well, the other I suppose you have 249 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: other point is that China looks on this as a 250 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: decades long project. It's not something it's going to be happening, 251 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: and they're in lies, and therein lies the risk. I 252 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: think infrastructure projects are so long and people are reluctant 253 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: to because there are changes in governments there it's you know, 254 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: when it comes to imaging markets, you see changes every 255 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: other year, sometimes in terms of for you know, who's 256 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: in power, and policies change, and there in lies the 257 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: risk has Thanks very much for speaking to us. That 258 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: brings us to the end of our second podcast on 259 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: the Built and Road series of Limburger is running at 260 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: the moment, but next time we're going to be talking 261 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: about episode three, which takes us all the way to Africa. 262 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, guys. M