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Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When

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Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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Speaker 2: And when I find my ball.

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Speaker 1: In a brid Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday,

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Speaker 1: Frida Egg Egg, fridagg Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready

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Speaker 1: to run off of the golf course game. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Frida Egg Golf Podcast. I'm Garrett Morrison, and today

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Speaker 1: we're digging into the story behind one of the most

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Speaker 1: buzzed about new golf courses in America. I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: Old Barnwell near Aiken, South Carolina. This Brian Schneider and

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Speaker 1: Blake Conant design has received rave reviews since opening for

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Speaker 1: preview play last year. I got to play it on

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Speaker 1: the Sunday before the Masters, and I can confirm that

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Speaker 1: it is an incredibly inventive work of golf architecture and

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Speaker 1: just a fun course to play. But another thing that

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Speaker 1: makes Old Barnwell stand out in the current crop of

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Speaker 1: new private golf clubs, and there are a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: is it's vision for itself. This is a club that

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Speaker 1: wants to have a positive impact on the world, and

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Speaker 1: in this episode we'll talk about how feasible it is

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Speaker 1: to have that kind of impact with a golf club.

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Speaker 1: I realized that this idea of a mission focused club

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Speaker 1: might provoke some skepticism, so we'll adjust that. My guest

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Speaker 1: is Nick Schreiber. Nick is the founder of Old Barnwell,

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Speaker 1: and this is really his passion project. He's there all

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Speaker 1: the time, he was there the day that I played it.

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Speaker 1: This is really his baby, So I'm looking forward to

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Speaker 1: digging into the nitty gritty of how he got this

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Speaker 1: thing built and what he hopes it'll become. First, though,

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Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about good Walk Coffee. I

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Speaker 1: was super excited to hear that we were partnering with Goodwalk.

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Speaker 1: This is a company that I've admired from Afar ever

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Speaker 1: since they launched in twenty nineteen, and it's really a

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Speaker 1: company that sits right at the nexus of my two

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Speaker 1: big interests, coffee and golf. Goodwalk was founded by coffee

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Speaker 1: nuts who also happen to be golf nuts, and they're

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Speaker 1: very serious about applying the golf values of fair play

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Speaker 1: and honesty to the way that they conduct their coffee business.

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Speaker 1: They buy high grade beans from around the world at

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Speaker 1: fair market prices from farmers who follow sustainable practices and

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Speaker 1: pay good living wages to their workers. And importantly, these

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Speaker 1: beans happen to be very very good. Specifically, the Frida

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Speaker 1: Egg Golf blend is delicious. That's right. We have our

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Speaker 1: own blend with Goodwalk. It's a bright and vibrant organic

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Speaker 1: coffee roasted to a medium light level. It has beans

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Speaker 1: from Central and South America blended with a naturally processed

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Speaker 1: coffee from Ethiopia to create a balance of milk, chocolate,

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Speaker 1: and berry flavors. It's what I've been drinking recently. Absolutely

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Speaker 1: love it. So go to Goodwalkcoffee dot com slash fried

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Speaker 1: egg and use the code fried egg at checkout to

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Speaker 1: save twenty percent on your entire order. Or you can

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Speaker 1: use the same code to start a coffee subscription that

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Speaker 1: will save you thirty percent on your first order and

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Speaker 1: then you'll save ten percent on all future shipments. You

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Speaker 1: can pause, skip, or cancel your subscription at any time

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Speaker 1: on the website. So again, Goodwalkcoffee dot com slash fried Egg.

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Speaker 1: Check it out all right? So I am here with

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Speaker 1: Nick Schreiber. Nick, how did the first Masters Week at

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Speaker 1: Old Barnwell go? That's a big deal for clubs in

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Speaker 1: the ach in South Carolina area.

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Speaker 2: You know, for not having a clubhouse, a lodge, or

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Speaker 2: really a team of more than five or six folks,

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Speaker 2: I think we acquitted ourselves quite well. I hope our

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Speaker 2: guests felt that way. I think, like other you know

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Speaker 2: clubs in the area, you know, we open it up

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Speaker 2: to the public and we charge an arm and a leg.

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Speaker 2: I think we have the advantage that, you know, basically

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Speaker 2: the money we make during that week or eight days

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Speaker 2: basically helps fund our mission programming. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: we were able to We didn't we didn't hit halfway,

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Speaker 2: but we got very close to hitting half of our

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Speaker 2: mission programming budget for the next twelve months. So we

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Speaker 2: were very lucky. We were grateful to have all the

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Speaker 2: guests coming out there. And I will say that like

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Speaker 2: there's like mini golf celebrities. It's really fun to see

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Speaker 2: like you know, like a Bob Ford or something like

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Speaker 2: that that like only point zero zero zero one percent

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Speaker 2: of the population would have any you know, would care

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Speaker 2: about it all. But it was fun. I really enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you should try to get as many people out

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Speaker 1: there who were on those old trading cards as possible.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that and put the put the cards

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Speaker 1: up in the in the clubhouse. That would be great.

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Speaker 1: My understanding is that you got your start in golf

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Speaker 1: by being a caddie.

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Speaker 2: I think cadding is the best job I've ever had,

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Speaker 2: you know, as a thirteen fourteen year old to walk

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Speaker 2: away with At the time, I think I was making

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Speaker 2: thirty five dollars a loop in cash plus like a

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Speaker 2: candy bar Minnesota was you know, you felt like you

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Speaker 2: were robbing a bank. And to do it outside and

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Speaker 2: you know, to meet the people that you get to meet.

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Speaker 2: And so for me, catting is still such a central

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Speaker 2: part of how I understand the game of golf. And

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Speaker 2: I mean I look back at those times quite finally,

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Speaker 2: and the courses that I got to caddy at North

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Speaker 2: of Chicago were pretty fantastic, though I didn't fully appreciate

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Speaker 2: it at the time because you're a little focused on

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Speaker 2: just not dropping somebody's clubs or you know, making mistakes.

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Speaker 1: How did you get into it in the first place.

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Speaker 2: So in my family, I'm one of eight kids, and

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Speaker 2: in our family, you know, my father did not grow

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Speaker 2: up with much and so he and my parents have

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Speaker 2: been very successful together. But it didn't matter, you know,

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Speaker 2: in our family was like when you turn thirteen, you

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Speaker 2: get a summer job. And so I washed dishes and

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Speaker 2: at a local restaurant and caddie and that was just

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Speaker 2: the easiest. There was very little application, you know, I

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Speaker 2: didn't have to interview. You basically show up for training

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Speaker 2: and then they kind of let you go out. And

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Speaker 2: after that first summer, I was at Old Elm basically,

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Speaker 2: you know, which was a fifteen minute twenty minute bike

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Speaker 2: ride from where I grew up. So I would go there,

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Speaker 2: you know, basically every weekend and would we you know,

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Speaker 2: during the summer, would be able to get loops you know,

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Speaker 2: pretty much every day of the week. And so it

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Speaker 2: was just a very easy transition into never having worked

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Speaker 2: before into having a job.

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Speaker 1: So let's fast forward a little bit. What led you

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Speaker 1: down the path of becoming the founder of a golf club.

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Speaker 1: You're not You're not a career long golf industry type,

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Speaker 1: and so what got you to this point?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I had no business doing this, and I

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Speaker 2: think that my awareness around that has has served us

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Speaker 2: quite well, I think because it means that we really

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Speaker 2: focus on getting people who do know what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: But basically it does kind of start with that caddy

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Speaker 2: mentality and the opportunity that it gave me. And you know,

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Speaker 2: my colleagues. I don't know if you can call fellow

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Speaker 2: caddies or colleagues. It sounds a little too fancy, but

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Speaker 2: basically that always stuck with me, and I fell in

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Speaker 2: love with the game of golf. After that. My father

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Speaker 2: did not play, and so at that point my brother

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Speaker 2: and I started to convince him to play. And though

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Speaker 2: I was never a great golfer, by the time that

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Speaker 2: I was in my professional career, golf had done something

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Speaker 2: very similar to what it had done for me when

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Speaker 2: I was a caddy. I was meeting people that benefited

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Speaker 2: my I was worked at a software company and I

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Speaker 2: ran sales, and so you're starting to meet clients or

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Speaker 2: potential partners and eventually, you know, you know, the private

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Speaker 2: equity group that purchased us. You know, some of those

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Speaker 2: relationships were honed on the golf course. And so that

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Speaker 2: just always stuck in my mind as something that this

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Speaker 2: is a game that we all love, but it's way

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Speaker 2: more powerful than people, I think give it credit. So

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Speaker 2: you know how I got into this. You know, I

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Speaker 2: mentioned this earlier and I think it's really important to acknowledge.

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Speaker 2: So my parents have been remarkably successful. And so when

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Speaker 2: we sold our business, you know, and I've told this story.

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Speaker 2: I don't love telling this part of the story, but basically,

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Speaker 2: I was the last kind of co founding executive standing

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Speaker 2: at the company when we sold it, and I stuck

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Speaker 2: around for the transition. They merged us with a portfolio

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Speaker 2: company of theirs, and then I actually went to treatment.

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Speaker 2: So I had a substance abuse problem and a drinking

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Speaker 2: problem that i'd hid pretty effectively for a long time,

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Speaker 2: and so I actually went away and I had to

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Speaker 2: get myself right. And as you can imagine, this is

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Speaker 2: not a fun thing to talk about, particularly when I

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Speaker 2: had an eleven month old at the time, and you know,

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Speaker 2: you turned your life upside down. But when I got

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Speaker 2: back and you know, uncertain about what's going to happen,

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Speaker 2: really in every category of my life, I was in

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Speaker 2: this really unique and fortunate position one to have a spouse,

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Speaker 2: my wife, Sarah, who encourage me to consider what it

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Speaker 2: was that I wanted to do to make you know

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Speaker 2: that I would be happy, you know, passionate about doing

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Speaker 2: because as much as I love starting a business. We're

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Speaker 2: an HR tech, don't I don't love performance reviews or

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Speaker 2: you know, employee engagement surveys, right, And so that kind

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Speaker 2: of led me to consider something along those lines. And

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Speaker 2: then yes, like my kids at two boys now, they

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Speaker 2: are not they are taken care of because of the

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Speaker 2: success that my parents have had. There's no other way

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Speaker 2: to say it. And so it allowed my wife and

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Speaker 2: I to really think about or, in this unique and

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Speaker 2: fortunate position financially, to do something as crazy as starting

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Speaker 2: at golf club. And so that's really the genesis behind

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Speaker 2: just the conversation starting between Sarah and myself.

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Speaker 1: You've described Old Barnwell before as a mission focused club,

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Speaker 1: So what is the mission here and why is that

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Speaker 1: so critical to you?

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Speaker 2: Sure? Well, I'll take a step back and kind of

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Speaker 2: say that in the beginning, you know, when I kind

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Speaker 2: of brought up these ideas to Sarah, I didn't know

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Speaker 2: if it'd be a golf club. I mean we talked

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Speaker 2: about doing a par three course, something public, something private,

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Speaker 2: like there were so many different options on the table,

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Speaker 2: and I think that at the heart of all those uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, options, was this idea of doing something that

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Speaker 2: would make an impact on the community, as cliche as

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Speaker 2: that sounds, and so as we kind of refine the

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Speaker 2: ideas around it, you know, I'll go back to my

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Speaker 2: catting experience and then the experience that as I got

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Speaker 2: older and you know, having the opportunity to play some

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Speaker 2: of you know, not a ton, but some of the

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Speaker 2: best clubs or you know, private courses in the country.

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Speaker 2: You know, you realize that all great private clubs have

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Speaker 2: two things at their disposal that they can use to

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Speaker 2: impact their community in a positive way. And the first

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Speaker 2: is the golf course itself, whether that's you know, literally

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Speaker 2: providing a space for people to network, to being a

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Speaker 2: you know, a location where you can have charity events

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Speaker 2: that benefit great causes. And then the second thing, which

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Speaker 2: is much more important, is the members. You know, every

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Speaker 2: great golf club has successful and a diverse array of

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Speaker 2: experience within their membership that they can again bring to

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Speaker 2: bear to benefit those in the community around them. And

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Speaker 2: so that when we kind of thought about that, we

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Speaker 2: realized that we could do something a bit different. And

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Speaker 2: so the mission is, you know, broadly stated, to bring

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Speaker 2: people together through golf, and what that means for us

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Speaker 2: is creating a community of members that's a bit more

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Speaker 2: inclusive than you might see. So when I say inclusive,

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Speaker 2: I'm not just talking about women or folks of color.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about beginners or families. Really kind of expanding

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Speaker 2: the tenth around that. And then the other component, of course,

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Speaker 2: is then taking those members in the course and putting

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Speaker 2: into good use for programs that you know, for I

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Speaker 2: mean programs that support or celebrate groups that are generally

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Speaker 2: underrepresented or underserved in the game. So that's kind of

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Speaker 2: the idea behind it.

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Speaker 1: You know, most people wouldn't think of founding a private

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Speaker 1: club as a way to have an impact on the world, right.

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Speaker 1: In fact, a lot of people consider that idea somewhat

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Speaker 1: off putting, right or or almost ridiculous, Like a private

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Speaker 1: golf club, really, this is this is the way that

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Speaker 1: you're going to do it. So so why why do

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Speaker 1: you think.

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Speaker 2: Of it that way? So I think it does kind

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Speaker 2: of I think those two components that private golf clubs

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Speaker 2: have that public off courses don't are really powerful, you know,

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Speaker 2: the idea that a public golf course doesn't have that

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Speaker 2: that like, basically the dedicated membership that that we can

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Speaker 2: kind of lean on, so like in our process, basically

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Speaker 2: as part of our membership process. You know, we say, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're trying to create this exceptional golf experience, and we're

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Speaker 2: trying to offer it at a reasonable price. But in return,

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Speaker 2: we're asking you to commit to participation. And so we're

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Speaker 2: getting that buy in from members in a way that

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Speaker 2: you wouldn't. It would be much tougher to do when

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Speaker 2: you're dealing with the broader public. Now, I will also

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Speaker 2: say that that those critics or those skeptics, are entirely

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Speaker 2: correct in their skepticism. Right. The idea of an inclusive

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Speaker 2: private club is oxymoronic. It doesn't make any sense. But

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Speaker 2: our thought was, well, golf does a lot of great things,

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Speaker 2: or can do a lot of great things, and this

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Speaker 2: is one idea that that we felt really comfortable with,

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Speaker 2: you know. And then you know, from like a like

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Speaker 2: a you know, nuts and bolts perspective, the idea of

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Speaker 2: a private club. You know, we're not again, it's not

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Speaker 2: cheap at all, but with initiation and dues being significantly

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Speaker 2: below what the market would bear, you know, it's not

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Speaker 2: like we're we're not making money, right, but I will

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Speaker 2: say that that does like extinguish some of the risk.

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Speaker 2: So knowing that we could raise. You know, I think

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Speaker 2: we've raised five million dollars through initiation fees so far

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Speaker 2: with three hundred and thirty members, maybe a little bit

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Speaker 2: more than five million. That is a fraction of what

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Speaker 2: it costs to build a golf club, let alone to

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Speaker 2: operate it moving forward. But you know, just from a

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Speaker 2: you know, you can't do a whole lot of good

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Speaker 2: with a golf course or a golf that isn't functioning,

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Speaker 2: and so the idea of that helping us diminish the

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Speaker 2: risk at the front of the process is an important

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Speaker 2: part too.

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Speaker 1: You've kind of addressed why the private golf club idea

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Speaker 1: was more powerful or appealing than a public golf course.

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Speaker 1: But I wonder if you could maybe talk a bit

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Speaker 1: more about why you didn't choose to build a public

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Speaker 1: golf course. Did you ever think of going that route

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Speaker 1: as you were making this decision?

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Speaker 2: Sure, we did, and I think where we kind of

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Speaker 2: fell short and moving in that direction, I guess. You know.

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Speaker 2: So I live in Charleston, South Carolina, and like a

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Speaker 2: lot of other cities in the Southeast, you can't you

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Speaker 2: can't get on a wait list for the private clubs

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Speaker 2: around here, and even if you want to go to

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Speaker 2: the Charleston UNI. You know, you got to get up early,

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Speaker 2: two weeks in advance. You know, it's like it's tough

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Speaker 2: to get a tea time, and there's not a lot

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Speaker 2: of great affordable public options around here. And so when

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Speaker 2: we thought about that, we thought, okay, well, let's maybe

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Speaker 2: we could create a public course in the area that

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Speaker 2: would serve everybody, and you know, we could keep it cheap.

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Speaker 2: But then you realize that, you know, if you're going

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Speaker 2: to buy two hundred plus acres near a city center

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Speaker 2: that's within driving distance, I mean, I think there's a

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Speaker 2: golf club going up outside of Charleston now and they

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Speaker 2: paid eleven and a half million dollars for I think

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Speaker 2: four hundred and fifty acres. That's a lot of money.

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Speaker 2: And again that puts you in the hole immediately, and

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Speaker 2: it puts a lot of pressure on Okay, now we

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Speaker 2: got we got to turn a profit, so that sixty dollars,

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Speaker 2: you know, you know green speed that you're kind of

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Speaker 2: hoping to stay at or under it, like you're like, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: maybe we have to make it seventy five or eighty,

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Speaker 2: and then the compromises begin. And so then we thought

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Speaker 2: about well, what if we did like a par three course,

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Speaker 2: And again some of that became there's not so much

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Speaker 2: in an economy of scale around developing eighteen holes or

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Speaker 2: thirty six holes like you'd think that there would be,

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Speaker 2: but there really aren't. But I will say that the

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Speaker 2: what's the phrase, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze in

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Speaker 2: terms of the amount of effort and infrastructure you have

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Speaker 2: to build for any golf facility for it to be

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Speaker 2: kind of effective, and to do that I think would

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Speaker 2: have it just couldn't have had the same impact I

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Speaker 2: think that we can have. So the idea of doing

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Speaker 2: a private club where you've got members that can come

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Speaker 2: from all over the country. You know, this national membership

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Speaker 2: model is popular for a lot of reasons, but for

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Speaker 2: us it was ideal because again, we have people that

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Speaker 2: we can we can provide this experience that are bought

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Speaker 2: in on this mission, that are willing to pay again

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Speaker 2: a not insignificant amount of money, but they're not going

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Speaker 2: to be there every day, and it allows us to

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Speaker 2: kind of build a club that is efficient, Like right

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Speaker 2: now we have a very small team will continue to

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Speaker 2: grow as we add the clubhouse and the lodge which

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Speaker 2: is both which you are under construction, but we're also

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Speaker 2: as a result of the kind of the path that

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Speaker 2: we took, we can now invest more heavily and more

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Speaker 2: quickly in our kids course, which we'll have you know,

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Speaker 2: public access certain days of the week, and we'll help

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Speaker 2: programming for our mission. You know. It allows us to

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Speaker 2: think about building a third course down the line, maybe

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Speaker 2: more soon, sooner than we had anticipated, which again we

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Speaker 2: can provide up public access or do charity events or

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Speaker 2: things like that. So it's a very complicated thing, but

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Speaker 2: in our mind we try to keep it as simple

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Speaker 2: as possible. And we realized that we can get a

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Speaker 2: bigger bank for our buck if we if we took

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Speaker 2: the route of a private club that wasn't you know,

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Speaker 2: twenty five minutes from Charleston or thirty minutes from Charlotte

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Speaker 2: or Atlanta, but kind of in a great place that

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Speaker 2: was maybe in the middle of nowhere, but two hours

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Speaker 2: to everywhere sort of thing. And that's what turned out

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Speaker 2: to be. I mean, if we had found the land

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Speaker 2: in central Georgia, we would have bought it, but it

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Speaker 2: happened to be in Akin, South Carolina, which was a great,

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Speaker 2: great thing.

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Speaker 1: If you're imagining where Old Barnwell might be ten or

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Speaker 1: twenty years from now in terms of fulfilling its mission

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Speaker 1: or having some kind of impact on the community or

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Speaker 1: the world. What exactly would the club be doing, what

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Speaker 1: would the programming be, and what would be the kind

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Speaker 1: of mechanisms of making change or kind of having a

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Speaker 1: positive impact in the world. What what would those mechanisms be.

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Speaker 2: Sure, So I think that I kind of look at

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Speaker 2: it in two ways. The first way is within our

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Speaker 2: own programming the outcomes that we're trying to drive. And

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Speaker 2: so we've been open, you know, our eighteen holes have

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Speaker 2: been open for nine months now, for almost nine months.

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Speaker 2: And so for example, our partnership with the Evan Scholars Foundation,

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Speaker 2: which is a youth caddy organization. You know, I was

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Speaker 2: thinking that we might have ten or twelve caddies when

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Speaker 2: we opened. We now have one hundred plus caddies. We

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Speaker 2: have one hundred and twenty. Who have you gotten three

361
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Speaker 2: or more loops that's produced you know, fifteen hundred loops

362
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Speaker 2: overall and probably two hundred grand in the like local

363
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Speaker 2: economy of kids, you know, like we to talk about, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, how much it costs to take a loop

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Speaker 2: plus you know, tips and then some of those opportunities.

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Speaker 2: So like we measure our programming in those ways, and

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Speaker 2: in five years, I would like to have not only

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Speaker 2: a large group of caddies, but a group of caddies

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Speaker 2: that are really good at what they do and we've

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Speaker 2: provided their ample training and we're giving them the right

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Speaker 2: connections to our members. And the same is true with

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Speaker 2: our partnership with you know, Vorhees, which is the local HBCU,

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Speaker 2: with the Anaka Foundation, and our aspiring female pros. So

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Speaker 2: in each of those cases, without going into a ton

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Speaker 2: of detail about them, we have these grand plans, right,

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Speaker 2: but really we want to start small and in five

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Speaker 2: ten years, if those relationships work out well, then we'd

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Speaker 2: like to expand those programs a little bit by a

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Speaker 2: little bit and maybe even add different mission partners along

380
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Speaker 2: the way, you know. And I think frankly, we've learned

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Speaker 2: a lot in some of the relationships that we've tried

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Speaker 2: to build and haven't worked, and so that next five

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Speaker 2: to ten years will be really important as we make

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Speaker 2: sure that again you know, get the most bang for

385
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Speaker 2: our buck and really kind of make an impact. But

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Speaker 2: more broadly, in five or ten years, what I would

387
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Speaker 2: love love to see is other clubs in the Southeast,

388
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 2: for example, where there's not really a culture of youth caddies,

389
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Speaker 2: they see this and they realize that not only is

390
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Speaker 2: this a service for their members, but it's a service

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Speaker 2: for the kids in their community. And it can be done,

392
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,919
Speaker 2: you know, by partnering with Evan Scholars. It can be

393
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Speaker 2: done in a way that's really hands off, like they

394
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 2: do everything, they do all the work. Or if we

395
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Speaker 2: can have a program that supports for aspiring female pros

396
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 2: each year in Aiken, South Carolina, Like you can make

397
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Speaker 2: one work in Jacksonville, you can make one work in Scottsdale.

398
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Speaker 2: So that is all that to say. It'd be really

399
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 2: really great if what we've been able to do and

400
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,719
Speaker 2: learn from our mistakes, and you know, if we can

401
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 2: transfer those to other clubs that are interested in doing

402
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 2: the same things, because none of the nothing that we're

403
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 2: doing is a new idea, not like nothing. They all

404
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 2: come from other places. A lot of these you know,

405
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 2: a lot of clubs are already doing these things. We

406
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 2: just have the benefit of we're like a laboratory. We

407
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 2: can build it from the ground up and hopefully we

408
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 2: can kind of again, provide some sort of framework to

409
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 2: export it to other clubs that are interested in doing

410
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 2: some of the same things.

411
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in building the club, you're being unusually

412
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 1: explicit and intentional about what your goals are with it.

413
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Speaker 1: And it seems like you might have recognized early in

414
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Speaker 1: your life that golf clubs are kind of these incredible

415
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: concentrations of power. On the one hand, like power and money.

416
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Speaker 1: Successful people often belong to golf clubs and they're all

417
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Speaker 1: in that same place, and presumably that can be harnessed

418
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Speaker 1: in some way. They're also passionate about what they're doing there, Right,

419
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Speaker 1: Golfers are passionate, and they spend a lot of time

420
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Speaker 1: with this activity at this club. And it appears to

421
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Speaker 1: me and I wonder if you see it this way,

422
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 1: that you're just trying to capture some of that energy

423
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Speaker 1: and power and push it to some ends that you

424
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Speaker 1: yourself for a passion about.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm active. I'm on the board of the

426
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Speaker 2: First Tee here in Charleston, and what I love about

427
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 2: the First t is that it's basically like a trojan

428
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Speaker 2: horse for youth development. I mean, yes, golf is like

429
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 2: the idea behind it, but really it's not so much

430
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 2: about golf for the participants, and I think the same

431
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 2: is true for some of the things that we're doing,

432
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Speaker 2: Like our caddies, many of them have never step foot

433
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Speaker 2: on a golf course before, and they probably won't end

434
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 2: up playing much golf, but they're getting to meet members

435
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 2: who can really It sounds cliche or maybe sounds overblown,

436
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 2: but like, I think it's really true, like they can

437
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 2: change the trajectory of an individual's life. And the same

438
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 2: is true with some of our other mission partners. And

439
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 2: so I think that selfishly, like I'm having the absolute

440
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: time of my life doing this, and I love golf

441
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: and I love what it can provide. And so there's

442
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 2: that component like I like, this is not I am not,

443
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 2: Like we are not Mother Teresa doing something for the

444
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 2: goodness of others out of the goodness of our hearts.

445
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 2: We're having so much fun and we get to be

446
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 2: a part of something like who wouldn't want to work

447
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 2: with Brian Schneider and Blake Conant and see the drawings

448
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 2: they come up with and walk land with them. But yeah,

449
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 2: I mean I think that this is a great way

450
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 2: to harness. Again, what I think every great golf club

451
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 2: has and just putting it to good use. And again,

452
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 2: I think a lot of when I started this process,

453
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: I think I came into it really of the opinion

454
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: and I think incorrectly that all these golf clubs are

455
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,719
Speaker 2: like so traditional and it's all this and that, and

456
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: like they have no interest in, you know, doing a

457
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 2: lot of the things that you know, we talk about doing.

458
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 2: And then as you get to know people within the industry,

459
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: you realize that some of the most traditional, you know,

460
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: the thing the places that people think of as the stodgy,

461
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: you know, backwaters of you know, nineteen twenties, you know,

462
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 2: access like they're doing some of the most impressive work.

463
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I think like august National, I think is

464
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 2: a great example of that. You know, they've got their

465
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: own history, and I think they recogniz that and they

466
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 2: have done more in the last twenty five years than

467
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 2: I think. I really think that any other golf organization

468
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 2: to truly grow the game. Like when we talk about

469
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 2: drive chip and put, when you talk about the Women's

470
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 2: Amateur to say nothing of they don't ask for credit,

471
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: but the amount of money that they invest in the

472
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 2: community in Augusta, whether that's with the United Way or

473
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 2: other organizations. It's absolutely incredible, and they're not asking for

474
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 2: any credit on those things. Like you know, we talk

475
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 2: about the patch, which is a really exciting thing that

476
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: they're doing, but there's so much beyond the surface, and

477
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: so to me, you know, shame on me. I think

478
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 2: coming into this, I would have thought that they were,

479
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of what's wrong with private golf,

480
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 2: and now I realized that they are. Probably they're they're

481
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: the best example of what golf can do to make

482
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 2: an impact on a community.

483
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: The patch project that you just referred to, by the way,

484
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: is for Augusta municipal golf course, where Augusta National is

485
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: partnering with the First Tea and a local community college.

486
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: I believe too. Yeah, I guess a tech right to

487
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: renovate the patch, and they've hired Tom Fazio and Bowwelling

488
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: to carry out that work. That's certainly a story that

489
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: that we'll be following in fried Egg. But in any case,

490
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: I want to get into a bit more of the

491
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: nuts and bolts of building this club. Now that we've

492
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: kind of talked about it on a on a high

493
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: level philosophical kind of way, let's let's get into how

494
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: this actually happened, how you how you pulled it off right,

495
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: or how you're continuing to pull it off, because it's

496
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: obviously ago. What came first. Hiring an architect or finding

497
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: the piece of land.

498
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 2: They happened simultaneously. And so I started looking online. So

499
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: I have you know, I still subscribe to this map

500
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 2: application mobile app where you can. I mean, it's pretty

501
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: simple stuff. I'm sure a lot of real estate agents

502
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: have this. But I could see parcels, the size of

503
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: the parcels, the soil types with some degree of accuracy,

504
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 2: the topography, all of that stuff. And so, you know,

505
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 2: without really saying anything to Sarah as we were kind

506
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: of talking about these things, I couldn't help myself, Like,

507
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 2: I started to look at land. And then at the

508
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 2: same time she said, okay, well be the first step,

509
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 2: and I said, identifying a good piece of property. And

510
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 2: then I realized to do that. You know, I can

511
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 2: look online as long as I want, but really I

512
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 2: needed somebody like Brian and Blake, Brian Schneider and Blake

513
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: Conan to actually be the judges of what was good land.

514
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 2: And sure enough, you know, so I met with them

515
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: and it was very informal. We did not have any contract.

516
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 2: It was handshakes. Brian happened to live on Daniel Allend

517
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: here in Charleston, and so we met and you know,

518
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: they said, sure, we'll come and look at properties with you,

519
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 2: and you know, kind of take it from there. And

520
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: I think from their perspective it was probably a good

521
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 2: business development tactic, even though, and I think I told

522
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: this pretty early on, like they were who I wanted anyway, Like,

523
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 2: you know, having read some Brian's essays, having listened to

524
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: him and Blake, talked to you and Andy, you know,

525
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: it was clear to me that they were at the

526
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 2: top of the list for me. So basically, after that conversation,

527
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: if I found a piece of property that I thought

528
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: was good, I would go visit it. If I thought

529
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 2: it was good enough to warrant, you know, telling them

530
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 2: about it, I would and then they would come down,

531
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: and you know, I jerk around about this, but like

532
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 2: they would come down, they tell me why I was

533
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 2: an idiot, and I would go back to looking for

534
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 2: a new piece of property. And over time I kind

535
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: of learned what it was that they were looking for

536
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,959
Speaker 2: that goes beyond just like sandy soil and you know,

537
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: land movements, it's more than that. And so you know,

538
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 2: it took about, I would guess, eighteen months to find

539
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: the piece of property that we did, and I remember

540
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: Brian came down and it was not a great The

541
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: shape of the parcel originally was not great. It was

542
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 2: originally four hundred and forty four acres and it would

543
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: have been tough to route because it kind of came

544
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: together a couple of pinch points. And Brian, you know,

545
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: as we're walking around and said, I don't care, get it,

546
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: we'll figure it out. And sure enough, you know, they

547
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 2: almost immediately started routing golf holes on land that we

548
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: didn't known, and so we kind of had to go

549
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 2: from there. But yeah, it really started with both kind

550
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 2: of looking for land and hiring Brian and Blake.

551
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: Why Brian and Blake at the time, they didn't have

552
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: any original regulation eighteen hole designs to their name, correct,

553
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 1: and so you know, a lot of developers might might

554
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: see this as a risk. Obviously, I knew that they

555
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: were a great choice, you know, you know, people who

556
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: are who are really into golf architecture knew that these

557
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: guys should be at the top of any list. But

558
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: why was it that you went with them and were

559
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: willing to kind of take what many people would interpret

560
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: as a risk with them.

561
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: So again, because we're in this really unique and fortune position,

562
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: we could take the long approach. We were not talking internally,

563
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: like my wife and I about like a short term

564
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: profitable business plan. We were talking about something a little

565
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: bit different. And so to me, you know, there's obviously

566
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: a ton of value in the name associated with you know,

567
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: like back in the day, I mean, you know, having

568
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: grown up when like the Tom Fazio real estate development

569
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: was like such a bit. I mean, that's that's what

570
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: That's how you make money, right, you sell real estate

571
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: connected to a brand name. But I think that we

572
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: didn't want that. We wanted a really fun and interesting

573
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: golf course. And you know, I've told Brian and Blake this,

574
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: But originally so my idea was that I wanted to

575
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: build thirty six holes, and the first course I wanted Brian,

576
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: and the second course I wanted Blake. But it turns

577
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: out that I was I reached out to Blake via

578
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: Golf Club atlass before I met Brian, and then the

579
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 2: first thing he said was, oh, well, if you're in Charleston,

580
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: you should meet Brian. So I was like, okay, perfect.

581
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 2: And then they you know, having worked together at Hollywood,

582
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: Atlantic and other places, you know, I give him a

583
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: ton of credit. They asked if they could work together

584
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: on it and so and I you know, so that

585
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 2: was for the first course, and then Brian is the one,

586
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: Brian and Blake. But Brian came to me and said, hey,

587
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: before we get to the next eighteen, what about doing

588
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: a kid's course? And I was like, well, what's a

589
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 2: kid's course? And so he told me all about that,

590
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: and you know how they have these places in Scotland

591
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: that are truly for the kids. So like, at some

592
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: point it became clear that Brian and Blake were not

593
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: just hired for the first one, they were going to

594
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: do everything on the property. And I think that what

595
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: began is just you know, me being a how would

596
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 2: I say, a very amateur you know, golf course architecture nerd,

597
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: and having read the books and listened to the interviews,

598
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 2: like their philosophy just seemed to jove and plus I

599
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: think the biggest thing for me was I just wanted

600
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: to create something that was unique. And if you look

601
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: at the greens that you know, Brian's famous for those

602
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 2: are really unique greens. And then when you know, Blake

603
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: on your podcast talked about I mean, you talked about

604
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: a lot of things, but the sense of play, and

605
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: you know, we wanted to be a good steward within

606
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: the community, then we better be of the community. And

607
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: so you know, to have those kind of philosophies come

608
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: together was really like it's perfect. And so to me,

609
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: I didn't worry about the long term value because I

610
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: knew that there was going to be a market of

611
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 2: nerds like you know, you and me that would love

612
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 2: to see a course by Brian and Blake, and the

613
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: rest of the world would figure it out sooner or

614
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: later if they did what I thought they would be

615
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,239
Speaker 2: able to do, which is what has been greatfully, very

616
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 2: very true.

617
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: All right, let's take a quick break here to talk

618
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: about USGA memberships. For more than one hundred and twenty

619
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: five years, the USGA has been working to ensure that

620
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: golf has a strong future, and for almost fifty years,

621
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: USGA members have given back to the game they love

622
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: by supporting programs and initiatives that affect every aspect of

623
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: the game, including junior golf. Environmental sustainability, the history of

624
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: the game, and some of the biggest championships in the sport.

625
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: On top of making a difference to the future of golf,

626
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: USGA members also get a number of great benefits, including

627
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: a US Open or US Women's Open member hat, a

628
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: personalized member bag tag, a subscription to USGA's Golf Journal,

629
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: and much more. You two can give back to golf

630
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: and get back some awesome benefits by visiting USGA dot

631
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: org slash fried Egg and becoming a USGA member today.

632
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: You know, involving Brian and Blake in the site selection

633
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: process was a very smart decision and also an unusual one.

634
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: Maybe in golf development. Maybe it's maybe it's less unusual now,

635
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: but usually when architects come into a project, the piece

636
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: of land is selected and they just kind of work

637
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: with it. And it sounds like Brian and or Blake

638
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: went with you to view a few different sites and

639
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: were able to tell you one that you might have

640
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: thought was really looking good actually wasn't suitable for what

641
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: you wanted to do. So I'm curious about what you

642
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: learned in that process. Were there any kind of big

643
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: surprises or revelations that came up for you when you

644
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: were looking at a piece of land and you thought

645
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: it looked great, but Brian came over and said, actually

646
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: that doesn't work for reasons X, Y, and Z. What

647
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: did you learn in that process?

648
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: I learned a lot, I think, And my guess is

649
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: I've only worked with Brian and Blake, so I'm sure

650
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: that it's different in each case. And my guess is

651
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: that you know they're in a unique position given their

652
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: the work that they continue to do with Renaissance golf

653
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: design on their own and alongside Tom Doak, that you

654
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 2: know they've seen some really good sights and they've also

655
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: worked on sites that are not great, but they're not

656
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 2: in a position where they feel like they need to know.

657
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: They were very honest about what was good and what wasn't.

658
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: They weren't like angling for the job in a way

659
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 2: that I think some understandably as somebody who comes from sales,

660
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 2: like I get it, like if I want a job,

661
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna tell yeah, this this land looks great,

662
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 2: let's let's do it. But the first piece of property

663
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: that I brought them down to, I had spent like

664
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 2: four or five days on my own just walking around

665
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: and it was a bit It was like five hundred acres.

666
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 2: It had a lake at the bottom. There was some

667
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 2: swampy areas and wetlands that we probably wouldn't have, you know,

668
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: couldn't have touched. But there was some land movement. Was

669
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: very sandy. And when they visited, they actually showed up

670
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 2: maybe three hours before I showed up that day, and

671
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: by the time I was walking towards them, they were

672
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 2: walking up and like you could tell, like they were

673
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: just shaking their heads, like yeah, you know. And I

674
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: think the way that they described it was they could

675
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 2: build a good golf course there, but they couldn't build

676
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: a great one. And their rationale was a few things. One,

677
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: so some of it was like just completely logistical, common

678
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 2: sense stuff that I wasn't thinking of. One, you know,

679
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: that property owned eight of the shoreline of that you know,

680
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 2: fifteen acre lake at the bottom of the property, but

681
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: it didn't know on the other twenty percent, and that's

682
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 2: an issue. Two the land there was some good land

683
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: movement and probably sixty to seventy five feet of elevation change.

684
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 2: It was almost all in one direction going down to

685
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 2: that lake, and you know, you want it doesn't matter

686
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: if you've got five feet or one hundred feet for

687
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: playing to go up and down, and you know the

688
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: way that they would want to round it. They needed

689
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: something more than that, something more diverse than that. The

690
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 2: other thing is, which I thought was really surprising, but

691
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: you know, they, I guess in blake In, particularly given

692
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 2: as fine er background, they think of golf courses in

693
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 2: this like narrative sense, and so they wanted different environments

694
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 2: to work within throughout the course. And so what ended

695
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: up happening at Old Barnwall is we've got, you know,

696
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 2: a bunch of holes that kind of play in and

697
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: around a central valley with no trees, and then a

698
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: few holes that wind through you know, mature pines, and

699
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: then a couple of hole that are on the edge

700
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 2: of the property that are almost in and I guess

701
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: we've lost a little bit of the original look but

702
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 2: like prairie and so you know, that's not the only

703
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: thing that dictates the narrative of the routing for them,

704
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: but it's part of it. And so that was a

705
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: really that first property where they kind of walk me

706
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 2: through all that stuff was really enlightening. The other thing

707
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: I will say is that one of the reasons I

708
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: thought that that property was really good is because there

709
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 2: were very few trees and so I could see the

710
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 2: land movement. They can see the land movement when it's

711
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: covered in trees. You know, it's not just looking at

712
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: the topo maps, because those are pretty accurate, but they're

713
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 2: not always accurate. But more than that, like they can

714
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: they can really like the valley. There's a sixty five

715
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 2: foot drop in the valley at Old Barnwell where we

716
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 2: did end up building the course, and that was covered

717
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 2: in like ten to twelve year old pines, so not

718
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: tall pines, but it was covered and it looked mate.

719
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: I mean for me, I would have guessed it was

720
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 2: like a twenty or twenty five foot valley and it

721
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: was huge, and they knew that and they saw the

722
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: I mean I remember the second time we were on

723
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 2: Brian and Blake took me probably about twenty five yards

724
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: from the first tee and said, looking out into the trees,

725
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: like this is going to be your clubhouse, Like this

726
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 2: is where you're going to see everything. And sure enough,

727
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 2: and it's probably one hundred and fifty feet away from

728
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: where that you know porch is going to be. It's

729
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 2: just incredible. So they just have the ability that I

730
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: a visual the vision that I just don't have. So

731
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 2: that's another component is understanding that no matter what I see,

732
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 2: they see something different.

733
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: So aside from that view from the clubhouse position on

734
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: the current piece of land, and aside from the narrative

735
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: consideration of there are different sections of this property that

736
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: are routing, can explore what to them was good about

737
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: the site that you ended up choosing.

738
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: So you know, they talked was there's certainly some sand

739
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: and I think Brian's talked about this. You know when

740
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: you look at Sand Valley, like that's sand, that's sandy soil.

741
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: Aiken's got you know, a lot of sandy soil, but

742
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: it's also got play. And so they and seeing the

743
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: different pieces of property, you know, we could do again,

744
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: we can do soil testing and all that stuff, but

745
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 2: you can get a pretty good sense of Okay, this

746
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: is really sandy here and this part isn't so sandy,

747
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 2: but can we work around this or like you know,

748
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 2: so they take those things into consideration. Certainly, I think

749
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 2: certainly the size of the parcel is really important, and

750
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: so you know, I was looking at anything over four

751
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 2: hundred yards or four hundred acres, and again that original

752
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 2: parcel was four hundred and forty sum acres. And you know,

753
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: they were pretty explicit that like this is great, get it,

754
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: but also you're going to need more. And so they

755
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 2: we were trapesing through the land that we weren't buying.

756
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: You know, we were reaching out to neighbors and asking

757
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: if we could just take a look. And that also

758
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: is really interesting because you know, they're thinking about the

759
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 2: eighteen holes certainly, but they're also thinking much farther down

760
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 2: the line in terms of infrastructure, in terms of you know,

761
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: we're just a part like you know, what does the

762
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: entrance road look like? You know, here in Charleston, we

763
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: joke around the like Yamen's Hall is a good example

764
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: of this, like the longer the entrance and the smaller

765
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 2: the sign outside, the better the club is going to be.

766
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 2: And I'm not joking. So like the front, I don't know,

767
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 2: one hundred acres maybe nine hundred, maybe seventy five acres

768
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 2: of our property that front's Andrew Circle. The street that

769
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 2: we're on is pretty flat, and they like that. They

770
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: liked that you could kind of come in and then

771
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: there's this big reveal so that's unrelated to the routing.

772
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 2: That has everything to do with the infrastructure and kind

773
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 2: of the overall property. And again I give them a

774
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 2: ton of credit because I would definitely was not thinking

775
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 2: about that.

776
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: What was your role during the construction process?

777
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: I signed checks? I mean I really, you know, early on,

778
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 2: so Morgan Purvis, who is on our team, was the

779
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 2: first person that I hired, and he's a jack of

780
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 2: all trades. He's been our membership director, our partnership director.

781
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 2: I mean, he's gone a whole bunch of things. Really

782
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 2: in the beginning was just us and and Brian and Blink,

783
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: and we had a deal with the potential, you know,

784
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: somebody to take over as director of gronmy or to

785
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: start as director of agron me who had a fair

786
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 2: amount of construction experience, somebody with a great reputation, and

787
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: for some reason it just didn't work out and he

788
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 2: backed out, and you know, no hard feelings. We kind

789
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 2: of understood that he was he was a little concerned

790
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 2: about the risk and the fact that to you know,

791
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: tweedled and tweedledumb we're running the show. But so like,

792
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 2: really the extent of my involvement was I hired a

793
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: Timber Company to clear some of the land and that

794
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 2: didn't work out so well. So like despite giving them

795
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: GPS coordinates, like they started clearing land that like is

796
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: now to the right of our ninth t that like

797
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: they were not supposed to clear. And so that's a

798
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 2: good example of like why Morgan and I should not

799
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: be doing these things. And so when we did, we

800
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 2: were introduced to and I don't I still don't understand

801
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 2: how this happened, but he's now our general manager. But

802
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: John Levell was the person that we ended up hiring

803
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: as our director of agronomy, and he you know, had

804
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 2: helped I mean, he was the project manager and built Congarrie.

805
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: He was the director of agronomy at Congree and a

806
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 2: Diamond Creek where he lived. And before that he was

807
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 2: you know, part of Tom Fazzio's team that came in

808
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 2: a two thousand at Augusta National to Tiger Proof and

809
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 2: he ended up staying there for six years, seven years.

810
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 2: So this is a guy with not only great experience,

811
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 2: but when he saw what we were doing with like

812
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 2: the clearing, he's like, we got to call Green Tea

813
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 2: and Augusta they're they're they're great. They can do this,

814
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 2: They're doing half the price, you know, like all that stuff.

815
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 2: So basically at that point it was kind of hands off,

816
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: and which is the way it should have been. I

817
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: mean I had to say yes or no to some

818
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 2: of the you know, when we had to we had

819
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 2: to line our irrigation pond, for example, and that's like

820
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 2: a super expensive part of the process was building up

821
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 2: you know, spy makers. It's ten to twelve feet deep,

822
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: and then we built half of it and it started

823
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 2: to leave, you know, it was the water level was,

824
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 2: you know, going down substantially, and so we had to okay,

825
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 2: are we going to try to find the whole orre

826
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 2: we just going to align it and understand that that's

827
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 2: the best investment for long term. And so to have

828
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 2: somebody like John who had experience with those types of decisions,

829
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 2: I felt much more comfortable saying, Okay, let's spend more

830
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: money now because I really do think that it'll save

831
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 2: us money in the long run. And sure enough, you

832
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 2: know that's been the case. Because I haven't made I

833
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: haven't played much of a role in the construction side

834
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 2: of things.

835
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: So you were pretty hands off when it came to

836
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: the design of the golf course itself. Why do you

837
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: think that owners or clients do get more involved in

838
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: that side of things. Did you ever have like a

839
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: moment during the project when you were like, you know,

840
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: I kind of understand why somebody might want to be

841
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: more active here, but I'm not going.

842
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: To do that. Sure, I mean, I think and I'm

843
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: starting to feel it now because we're you know, we're

844
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 2: thinking about a third course or you know about the

845
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 2: third course, and so having experience now the first one

846
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 2: and the building, it's like, oh, it'd be fun to

847
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 2: do that, Like, well, I really like this part of

848
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 2: you know, the original course. But I'm not a great

849
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 2: player and I've never been a great player. And so

850
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 2: I think when you look at here's the Sabonic, I,

851
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 2: the Pescuti, Piscucci or I don't.

852
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: Know, Michael Pascucci, I think yes, and I think he's

853
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 1: like an exceptional golfer.

854
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of these owner developers are

855
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: great golfers, and so they they've earned the right to

856
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: think about these things in a way that I don't. Like,

857
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: I really am only thinking about it in terms of

858
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 2: a six or seven handicap, and I don't know, like

859
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 2: I don't. I just I am very much aware that

860
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: I don't know enough to have an opinion that matters.

861
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: I guess, like and now maybe I do, I have

862
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 2: more of one. I think the hardest part is that,

863
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 2: you know, as we grew our membership, and so we

864
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 2: had seven holes open for a time for previewpoint. We

865
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 2: had we called it the Upper Loopers holes one through

866
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: five and seventeen and eighteen, and it was just we

867
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 2: tried to grasp a certain amount of holes so that

868
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: our members could have something to play before we open

869
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: the full eighteen. And you know, inevitably, and I think

870
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 2: this is actually great. Our members are really candidate about

871
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 2: their feedback, and you know, the overwhelming response was so positive,

872
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 2: but there are some people that say, well, you know,

873
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 2: this green just you know, it doesn't seem the same

874
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 2: as the other greens. And so my struggle is as

875
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 2: a people pleaser by nature, and also as somebody who

876
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 2: has taken those people's money, is how do I balance

877
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 2: their opinions with the opinions of Brian and Blake, who

878
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: are the true experts and know a heck of a

879
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 2: lot more than those members. I mean, now, even experts

880
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 2: can be wrong, and I think like any course will

881
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 2: make adjustments over time. But I think, you know, the

882
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: limited changes that we have made since that opening seven

883
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 2: holes have been kind of a compromise between what Brian

884
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 2: and Blake like. They're not going to compromise on their

885
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 2: their strategy period like water management and strategy are. You

886
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: cannot mess with that in terms of their vision, or

887
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: at least I'm not going to. But they hear, they listen,

888
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: and so they're willing to make some minor adjustments, and

889
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: you know that's I think that's a great way to

890
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: listen to your quote unquote audience. But also it's not

891
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: least sight of like we're hiring them for a reason,

892
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 2: like you don't want me putting you know, telling you

893
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 2: where to put a bunker or you know how wide

894
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 2: that fairly should be. I just I'm not smart enough.

895
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: I don't have the experience. I'm not as well traveled

896
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 2: as you know Brian's. You know, Brian's been fifteen times

897
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 2: more places than I'll ever be.

898
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: So that's tricky though, isn't it, Because like the golf

899
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: course is for the members, right, golf courses are for

900
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: the players, and if they enjoy it, then they enjoy it.

901
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: If they don't enjoy it, then I guess by definition,

902
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: there must be something wrong with it. Right, I'm not

903
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: talking about old Barnwell, I'm talking about golf courses in general. Right.

904
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: If the players don't like something about it, then it's

905
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: almost like the customer is never wrong, except that we

906
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: all know that sometimes the customer is wrong, and that

907
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 1: often when it comes to matters of taste in golf architecture,

908
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: golf architects often have the most sophisticated perspective on those things,

909
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: and maybe some of those features that players don't like

910
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: initially will grow on them over time and eventually become

911
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: some of their favorite features. So it must be really

912
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: hard to negotiate that complexity as a decision maker within

913
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: a club, because on the one hand, yes, you acknowledge

914
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: that the course is for the players, but on the

915
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 1: other hand, you acknowledge that the architects probably have better

916
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: ideas about golf architecture than the average player.

917
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 2: So we have members that are members that marry in

918
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:55,439
Speaker 2: and Augusta National and Chicago Golf, and they expect, maybe

919
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 2: not the finer things, So I think they're all down

920
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 2: to earth. They're great members, but they experience. It's something

921
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 2: that is truly remarkable in their home clubs, right, And

922
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 2: so I think what was really important for us in

923
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 2: the early stages is to set the right expectations about

924
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 2: what we were here to do. And I think that

925
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 2: you know, the benevolent dictator, you know, the ability as

926
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: a sole owner to make decisions and not have to

927
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 2: go through committee is hugely beneficial and something like this.

928
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: But also I think we benefit from the fact that,

929
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 2: again we are not cheat, but we are well below

930
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: what we could charge and as a result, we kind

931
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 2: of you know, it's like, listen, if you're not happy, like,

932
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 2: we'd be happy to sell that membership to somebody else

933
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: who's going to be more impactful for the mission, and

934
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: we can charge more than we charge view you know.

935
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 2: So I think that that it's not certainly the way

936
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,919
Speaker 2: that we would behave, but it's it's in the back

937
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: of our minds. If people aren't happy with it, you know,

938
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: that's okay, that's we understand. It's not for everybody. I mean,

939
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: I think, you know, particularly with Brian and Blake, you know,

940
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 2: my again with zero direction from my perspective other than

941
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 2: to build something that they thought would be you know,

942
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 2: something they wanted to build, Like, of course I knew

943
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 2: that it's not going to be for everybody, and it's

944
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: going to be I mean, like I don't really care

945
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 2: where people, you know, what side of the tobacco road,

946
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 2: you know, controversy argument you're on, like is it great?

947
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 2: Is it not great? I don't really care because to me,

948
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: what that course does is it makes you think and

949
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 2: it you know, I love that there are people that

950
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 2: do or don't like it because they're actually talking about

951
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: architecture in a way that they would never talk about

952
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: architecture if they're just playing your ho home course down

953
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 2: the street. And so to me, I think that by

954
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: setting those expectations, we've appealed to a membership that was

955
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 2: totally open to a unique set of greens or some

956
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 2: features that might be too severe for you know, a

957
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: regular country club. I don't know, I think. And again,

958
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: we're still so early in this process that there will

959
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 2: continue to be complaints from members and some of them

960
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 2: will be well founded, like there's a green that maybe

961
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 2: could use a little softing, or I mean, the same

962
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 2: is gonna be true with our clubhouse in our lives,

963
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 2: Like it's never going to be perfect, but we can

964
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 2: always try to make it perfect or make sure our

965
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 2: members understand that, hey, this is this is here for

966
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 2: a reason.

967
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 1: What are the plans right now for old Barnwell's buildings, clubhouse, lodging,

968
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff.

969
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 2: So that's another thing when you talk about like the

970
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: nuts and bolt of a club. Early on in this process,

971
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: I went to two really nice guys that live here

972
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: in Charleston, Chris Randolph and Jordan Phillips, who are part

973
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: of South Street Partners, and so they own keywa Island Club.

974
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 2: They own Palmetto Brought Bluff that you know, the Crossroads,

975
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 2: which you guys recently featured something they developed. And I

976
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: went to them with like numbers very early in this process,

977
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 2: and they almost laughed me out of the room, very politely,

978
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 2: but they're like, you need to double what your numbers are.

979
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 2: And they were correct in a lot of ways. In

980
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 2: some ways they were incorrect or they didn't understand what

981
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 2: we were trying to do. But one of the biggest

982
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: differences that we had versus what they had is because

983
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 2: they're in this this different categor glory of clubs, you know,

984
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 2: they need the twenty thousand square foot twenty five thousand

985
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 2: square foot clubhouse. I think ours is the footprint is

986
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 2: like nine thousand. We've got a small upstairs area that's

987
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 2: going to be for staff, So like overall, I think

988
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 2: it's like eleven thousand square feet, which to me is

989
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 2: still big, but it's very intimate by comparison, and I

990
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 2: think that's okay. I like, the only place I've ever

991
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 2: been a member before Old Barnwall is to Chesa Creek,

992
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 2: which again, I know you read about to Death.

993
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 1: Place, Love yeah place, and it's such a cool club

994
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: and collection of buildings that fit exactly with the golf course.

995
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 2: So you took the words on them. I'm so understated. No, no,

996
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 2: you said up better than I coulde. It's just very

997
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 2: understated and it serves its purpose and it's not stark,

998
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 2: but there's not a whole lot of frills. And so

999
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 2: the clubhouse, you know, we're working with a great and

1000
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 2: tior design group. We're working at the same building architects

1001
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 2: that designed every building on Sand Valley's property, so they

1002
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 2: have great experience and we're very excited about it. But

1003
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: it's not ostentatious. It is we want it to be

1004
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 2: a you know again, it's of the land, and the

1005
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 2: same is true with our lodge is one story, very

1006
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: much like the chest. They've got the twelve single rooms

1007
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 2: and kind of a low slung connected to the clubhouse building,

1008
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 2: and so ours is like an L shape. I'm sure

1009
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 2: they wouldn't love me saying this, but it's like a motel.

1010
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 2: It's like an L shaped motel with a lounge that

1011
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 2: connects the rooms and then two suites family suites on

1012
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: the end with an interior courtyard, you know. So the

1013
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,760
Speaker 2: buildings to me, you know, they should be putting upsiding

1014
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 2: in the next week, which is really exciting, and I

1015
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: think it's going to be exciting for our members to

1016
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 2: see the progress. But it's taken a while for me

1017
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 2: to transition from focus on the golf to focus on

1018
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 2: the actual infrastructure. And luckily we've got people that have

1019
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 2: been focusing on that for a lot longer. So I

1020
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 2: think it's going to be far more important to the

1021
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 2: development of the club than I initially anticipated, and so

1022
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 2: I'm glad that we're working with people who really know

1023
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 2: what they're.

1024
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: Going Are there any costs that you incurred during the

1025
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 1: construction of the course or some of the initial infrastructure

1026
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: that really surprised you where you were like, this is

1027
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:20,760
Speaker 1: this is higher than I expected?

1028
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. Short answer is yeah, I mean I was looking

1029
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: at the numbers earlier. So the irrigation pond, for example,

1030
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 2: you know, originally so we're not on city water. What's

1031
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 2: great is we have our own water supply underneath the land.

1032
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 2: We have the water rights. But to build an irrigation pond,

1033
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: we thought, well, do we want to do two acres

1034
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 2: or do we want to do five? Do we want

1035
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 2: to do ten? Do we want to make it four

1036
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,479
Speaker 2: feet or twelve feet deep? And what became pretty clear,

1037
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 2: again working with somebody like John Level, is that the

1038
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 2: upfront costs, you're not going to regret that upfront cost

1039
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:55,439
Speaker 2: if you do it the right way the first time.

1040
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 2: And so that was way more expensive than anticipated. I

1041
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: joke around that early on in the process. I you know,

1042
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 2: asked Brian and Blake like, hey, you know, you hear this.

1043
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 2: You know it's a million dollars of golf hole, Like

1044
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 2: is that true? And if not, like, what are the

1045
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: things that you can do to keep costs lower and

1046
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 2: still create something that's really fantastic. And so they said, no,

1047
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: that's not true it depends on the land and all

1048
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 2: this stuff. But they said, but you know, to keep

1049
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 2: cost low. Really it's simple. You know, small greens and

1050
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 2: very few bunkers. And if you've been to old barn

1051
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: and walls, you have the greens are not small, and

1052
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 2: they're over one hundred bunkers. So clearly you know they

1053
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 2: didn't they didn't get their own memo in that, and

1054
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 2: I couldn't be happier. Frankly, I think that again, the

1055
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 2: best thing we could have done is hire people like

1056
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 2: Brian and Blake and then trust them to do what

1057
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 2: they do best, and that's that is a great investment.

1058
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,720
Speaker 2: Another thing I mean, I think drainage is something we didn't.

1059
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 2: We did not spare an expense on drainage. That's way

1060
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: more expensive than I anticipated. Irrigation, even since we put

1061
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: in our earsgation system inflation, and like it's absurd to

1062
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 2: me having grown up on a place that didn't have

1063
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: any irrigation. You know, they watered the handwater the greens

1064
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,240
Speaker 2: and that was it. Like it just bottles my mind

1065
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 2: how expensive a good irrigation system is. But I was

1066
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 2: warned about that, so it wasn't too much of a surprise.

1067
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 2: I think that there are a lot of surprises along

1068
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: the way for somebody with zero experience like me. But again,

1069
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 2: having talked to a lot of people in the industry,

1070
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 2: I was at least given a fair sense of course.

1071
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 2: So in clearing land, Clearing land is expensive, particularly when

1072
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 2: you can't sell the timber. Those are the things I

1073
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: would say that come to mind. Is more expensive than

1074
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 2: I anticipated.

1075
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 1: The things that nobody thinks about when they think about

1076
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:49,240
Speaker 1: building a golf course, clearing the land, drainage and irrigation. Yeah.

1077
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 2: Well, and if we wanted city water, I remember talking

1078
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 2: to the Mamorancy Water department. So this is before we

1079
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 2: had John Leavell. So I'm reaching out to the county

1080
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 2: and I'm asking the dumbest questions And if we wanted

1081
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 2: to connect to city water, we would have had to

1082
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 2: build literally paid for them to build like two and

1083
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 2: a half or three miles of pipe. And they're like, well,

1084
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 2: are you building houses, because if you're building houses, maybe

1085
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 2: we can like it won't cost as much because we'll

1086
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 2: be you know, there'll be more customers that are paying

1087
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 2: us for water. And I was like, wait, are you

1088
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 2: telling me that, like we can use our own water

1089
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, totally. It's like, okay, well we'll just

1090
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 2: stick with our own water. I think that sounds like

1091
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 2: a better idea. So there are so many things that

1092
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 2: we didn't have to experience that I'm sure every other

1093
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 2: golf developer has to go through. So we were really

1094
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 2: fortunate in a lot of ways too.

1095
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure people are curious about the Kid's course that

1096
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 1: you've mentioned a couple of times and which is currently

1097
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 1: under construction, as well as the third course that I'm

1098
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: not sure how far along in the process you are

1099
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: with designing or constructing this one, But what can you

1100
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,320
Speaker 1: tell me about these two future courses at Old Barnwell?

1101
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 2: Sure, so the Kid's course is under construction now. I

1102
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 2: think there are eight greens that are already roughed in,

1103
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 2: so we've set aside twenty five acres. You know, if

1104
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 2: you'd asked me a month ago, I thought it was

1105
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 2: twelve holes, but brianon Blake have since added three more,

1106
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 2: and the idea I know, it's it's they're sneaky, Well

1107
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 2: they're sneaky, but also I kind of love it. Like

1108
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 2: one of my favorite holes on the first course is

1109
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 2: the thirteenth, and that was originally going to be a

1110
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 2: par three, and when they were you know, building, they realized,

1111
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 2: you know, this is going to be better as a

1112
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 2: part four. So we're part seventy three and I think

1113
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 2: we're all the better for it because they just took

1114
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 2: what the land gave them there. So I think the

1115
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: same so with the kids course. The I can't possibly

1116
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 2: describe how much soil you dig up when you build

1117
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 2: a five acre pond that is ten feet deep. We

1118
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 2: had two mountains and one was kind of sandy ish

1119
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 2: and one was play ish, and basically we sold or

1120
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,879
Speaker 2: we gave the play away to a partner. But over

1121
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 2: the last like five months, our agronomy team has moved

1122
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 2: all that dirt to where the kids courses and then

1123
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 2: dug out more things to provide more dirt, to create

1124
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 2: a grading plan that Brian like, a very loose grading

1125
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 2: plan that Brian and Blake wanted to work with. And

1126
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 2: so now there's going to be fifty holes. I think

1127
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 2: mostly Part three's, but a couple of short part fours.

1128
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 2: When I say short, Part four is like three hundred

1129
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 2: or less, and I think we haven't figured out all

1130
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 2: the logistics of it, but I think, like if you're

1131
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 2: an adult, like you can only bring your irons, like,

1132
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,439
Speaker 2: don't bring a driver, A three would. But the goal

1133
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 2: is that on the weekends you can't play there until

1134
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 2: three o'clock unless you're with a kid, and that's a

1135
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 2: pretty easy thing to stick to. Originally, we thought, well,

1136
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 2: it should, that should always be the case, but what

1137
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 2: we realized is that we have a really we have

1138
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: a large group of beginning golfers, whether it's spouses or kids,

1139
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 2: that we want to do programming during the week We

1140
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 2: also want to partner with like youth on course and

1141
00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 2: provide access via that realm. So basically on the weekends

1142
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 2: it's going to be kid focused. And then I think

1143
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 2: that what they are going for you should talk to

1144
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: Brian and Blake because I've seen these greens, but I

1145
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 2: still haven't seen a routing. I think it's going to

1146
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 2: be a lot of fun. We had a contest, a

1147
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 2: design contest where kids could submit their designed for a

1148
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 2: whole and some of the ideas were hilarious and fun,

1149
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 2: including one that had a waffle house on the eighteenth green,

1150
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 2: which are on the green site, which was I mean,

1151
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 2: that'd be pretty great. I don't think we can pull

1152
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 2: that off, but one, the one that won had ramps

1153
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 2: because in his description he said, you know, it's nice

1154
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 2: to see if you hit a bad shot, it's still

1155
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 2: nice to see it going the year. So they're going

1156
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 2: to be features like that. It's not going to be

1157
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 2: like a miniatured off course, but I think that they

1158
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 2: are going to be features so that kids can really

1159
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 2: enjoy it. A couple months ago, Blake texted me a

1160
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 2: Craigslist listing for a like an eighteen foot grain silo

1161
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 2: and it was for sale down the road. It was

1162
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 2: one thousand bucks and he's like, hey, can you can

1163
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 2: you get this? And I said, well, what Ford? He said,

1164
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 2: don't worry about it. Can you can you get it?

1165
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm not, I'm not going to get

1166
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 2: so we didn't get it. So I don't really know

1167
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 2: what his idea was there, but I do think that

1168
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 2: they're trying to create something that is it's not a

1169
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 2: part three course. It is something different, and I'm again

1170
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 2: I'm as clueless about it as I think the rest

1171
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 2: of our members are. Although that the the greens look

1172
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 2: great so far, and then the third course we've got

1173
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 2: we've got a preliminary routing, and I think, what they

1174
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 2: want to do there is basically create two distinct nine

1175
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 2: hole courses in essence that you can rate and slope

1176
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 2: as one to eighteen holes. But their perspective is, you know,

1177
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 2: you've got to use what the land gives you. And

1178
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 2: so there's some really subtle features and then there's some

1179
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,959
Speaker 2: really severe. That valley that is on the first course

1180
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: extends all the way into that backside of the property.

1181
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 2: We have about one hundred and eighty five acres, and

1182
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 2: so I think what they really are focused on is

1183
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 2: creating variety for members. And so you know, those two

1184
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 2: distinct nine hole routing things will allow for you to

1185
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 2: play three different, four different I mean golf courses in

1186
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 2: essence when you come to o'barmel. So honestly, I don't

1187
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 2: know how many years you know, we're away from building

1188
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 2: that course. I would say that we've been really fortunate

1189
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, so it's probably sooner than

1190
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 2: be an anticipated. But who knows what their routing will

1191
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 2: do over time. It could change, it may have already

1192
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 2: changed since I last book.

1193
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: So zooming out a bit and looking at the kind

1194
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: of golf course construction surge that Old Barnwell is part

1195
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: of there are a lot of new courses going up,

1196
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: not only in the Aiken area, but really across South

1197
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: Carolina and in many places in Florida, some places in Georgia.

1198
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: Really the southeast is experiencing a kind of many or

1199
01:00:56,360 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: regionalized boom in golf construction. And so as somebody who's

1200
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: within that, who's part of that, Why do you think

1201
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: this is happening? Why are there so many golf courses

1202
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 1: being built in this area right now, and specifically so

1203
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 1: many kind of private clubs, often destination private clubs going

1204
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 1: up in this one region at the moment.

1205
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 2: So I think there are a few main reasons, the

1206
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 2: first of which kind of hits on you know, you

1207
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 2: just said a destination golf course. This is still a

1208
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 2: relatively new business model of like the National Private Club

1209
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 2: and so CICHESI, I think is one great example. When

1210
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 2: it started, it didn't do so well, and so it's

1211
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 2: the second owner who's done really well with it as

1212
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 2: they lowered does lowered the entrance fee and made it

1213
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 2: more kind of they've expanded it to now I think

1214
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:53,439
Speaker 2: they have. I'm making this up, but I think it's

1215
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 2: seven hundred and fifty or eight hundred members, and so

1216
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 2: this is still a relatively new model that I think

1217
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 2: a lot of people are looking at and ships saying,

1218
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 2: you know, it's like as Andy would describe, like the

1219
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,439
Speaker 2: craft culture, you know, the craft beer culture, golf course

1220
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 2: architecture through the work that you guys do and others. Like,

1221
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 2: it's so much more prevalent I think within the golfing

1222
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 2: community that people are willing to pay a premium for

1223
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 2: a really interesting or new golf course by Bill Hants

1224
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 2: or Tom Doak, and you know, the the business model

1225
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 2: is pretty strong for the first owner in that case

1226
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 2: in a way that it hasn't been in the past.

1227
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 2: You can get into like the next component of it is,

1228
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 2: of course you've got this whatever you know, like the

1229
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 2: one percent or whatever that can afford the five hundred

1230
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 2: grand that some people are charging or you know, again

1231
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 2: that makes your like like you know, you get basically

1232
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 2: you get ten members of that place, and you've filled

1233
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 2: up our coffers that we've gotten an old barn wall

1234
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 2: for our initiation fees, and so the you know, the

1235
01:02:57,800 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 2: numbers work out really well in that case, and right

1236
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 2: now today they can sell those memberships tomorrow who knows,

1237
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 2: But The third thing I would say is that, as

1238
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 2: you know, pre COVID even but since COVID, everybody's moving

1239
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 2: to the southeast. And so you know, I've been in

1240
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 2: Charleston for nine years, but I'm from Chicago originally, and

1241
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 2: our neighbors here in Charleston almost all of them are

1242
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 2: from the Midwest. And so what I would say is

1243
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 2: that just like here in Charleston, the same is true

1244
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 2: in Atlanta and Charlotte. There are only so many great

1245
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 2: golf courses or good golf courses. So for people that

1246
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:35,440
Speaker 2: are looking for the private golf experience, they're sol like

1247
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 2: they can't get on a wait list, and so they're

1248
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 2: willing to drive two hours to Ache to play. They're

1249
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 2: willing to drive to whatever the mountains of North Carolina

1250
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 2: and willing to pay a premium. And so I think

1251
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 2: that again right now, that business model is sound. I

1252
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 2: don't know how sustainable it is. I am not an

1253
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 2: expert on this stuff. The National Golf Foundation and you know,

1254
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 2: the Golf Course Owners Association would have a much better

1255
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 2: take on this than I do. But I am skeptical

1256
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 2: of like, if we were doing this to make money,

1257
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 2: if we were really like focused on profitability, we'd be

1258
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 2: doing things very differently. Ironically, I think that's what's going

1259
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 2: to allow us to have longer term sustainability. But I

1260
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 2: don't know. I didn't have a good answer for what

1261
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 2: the future holds. I mean, there's part of me the

1262
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 2: things that like. And we kind of saw this a

1263
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 2: little bit during COVID. You know, the economy may go

1264
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,040
Speaker 2: down a little bit, but the people who seem to

1265
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 2: be least affected sometimes are the ones who can afford

1266
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 2: a five hundred thousand dollars initiation fee. So maybe maybe

1267
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 2: this isn't you know, maybe this is what kind of

1268
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 2: keeps happening. I think I'll shout out booms Edge in Rembert,

1269
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 2: South Carolina as a really unique opportunity for private golf

1270
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 2: to be affordable and accessible to the public. I do

1271
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 2: think that there's a model there, but nobody's figured it out.

1272
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 2: I think if we were, if we took a long

1273
01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 2: view and could and I know this is some like

1274
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 2: a drum that you guys beat all the time, if

1275
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 2: you could change golfers expectations around maintenance and course conditions,

1276
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 2: I think you could create a really great golf club

1277
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 2: at an affordable price and still provide some public access.

1278
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 2: But I think it's important to note I'll say this

1279
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 2: and then I'll shut up, but exclusivity that people pay

1280
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 2: for with private clubs, like that word has such a

1281
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 2: negative connotation, But I also understand why people want or

1282
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 2: need that exclusivity for their golf experience, right. I mean again,

1283
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 2: like I think about it, I don't want to go

1284
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 2: to Wild Dunes here in Charleston and pay two hundred

1285
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 2: bucks to play a six hour round. It's certainly cheaper

1286
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 2: than joining a club in a lot of ways. But

1287
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 2: at the same time, you know, we all kind of

1288
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 2: pay for different conveniences, and so I think the real

1289
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 2: challenge is how can we make these courses provide that

1290
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 2: exclusive environment. When I say exclusive, I mean access for

1291
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 2: those members so that they can play when they want

1292
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 2: and they can have the experience that they want, but

1293
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 2: also leave it open to public place. And so there

1294
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 2: are just a lot of creative ways, and I think

1295
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:04,439
Speaker 2: we found that a lot of our members not only

1296
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 2: don't they don't care that we're providing public play access,

1297
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 2: they're encouraging it. They really like it and they want

1298
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 2: to support it because they want to show off the

1299
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 2: place that they've grown to like, you know, or love

1300
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 2: in some cases. So I think that unfortunately, I would

1301
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 2: guess that at some point in the next five to

1302
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 2: ten years there's going to be some sort of reckoning

1303
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 2: with these really expensive private clubs. But I also think

1304
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 2: that there might be a solution to it. I'm not

1305
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 2: smart enough to say whether or not that's going to come.

1306
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 1: The past well, you're probably better positioned to make predictions

1307
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: in this realm than a lot of people. I mean,

1308
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. You mentioned the National Golf Foundation and

1309
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: the Course Owners Association earlier, and while both of those

1310
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 1: bodies do really good research that I often avail myself of,

1311
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 1: they've also been wrong in the past. Right, it's really

1312
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 1: hard two to identify the signs of a bubble. We've

1313
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 1: seen this in so many different ways over the past

1314
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 1: few decades in different sectors of the economy. You know,

1315
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 1: it's almost part of the definition of a bubble that

1316
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 1: you don't know that you're in it. But there are

1317
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 1: definitely some people who are looking at this development surge

1318
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 1: and saying, how can this possibly be sustainable? And and

1319
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 1: so you know, from from your position as the developer,

1320
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: the founder, the owner of one of these clubs. What

1321
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 1: do you what do you think are the characteristics that

1322
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 1: can make a club durable through these oscillations in the

1323
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 1: economy that that we know are eventually coming.

1324
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 2: So for us, I think, you know, like lodging, I

1325
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 2: think lodging is one for these national clubs where that

1326
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 2: is an experience that people are willing to pay for.

1327
01:07:57,800 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 2: And in our case, we are looking at kind of

1328
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:02,080
Speaker 2: the market comp and trying to be twenty to twenty

1329
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 2: five percent cheaper than that. We will still make a

1330
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 2: healthy profit our lodging at that rate. And so I

1331
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 2: think that there is that that's something that those clubs

1332
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 2: that all clubs can kind of lean back on for

1333
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:18,639
Speaker 2: the national model. I think that food and beverage maybe

1334
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 2: plays an underrated component in this too. And this is

1335
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 2: somebody who I who will say that I've been a

1336
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 2: waiter and a dishwasher and all that stuff and worked

1337
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 2: in service before, but I think that that's an underrated

1338
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 2: component around community. And so you know, I had the

1339
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 2: chance to go to wade Hampton a couple of years

1340
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 2: ago because the father in law and one of our

1341
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 2: members hosted us. And that's as nice as nice gets

1342
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 2: in terms of the experience and I have no idea

1343
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 2: what an initiation fee costs there. But one thing that

1344
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:46,680
Speaker 2: I'll say that they did exceptionally well. One they have

1345
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 2: great staff, but they have like these community events that

1346
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 2: are all based around dinner or lunch or whatever, and

1347
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 2: so like it becomes part of that fabric for the

1348
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 2: people that live in that area. And to me, the

1349
01:08:58,360 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 2: more you can do that, the more you can create

1350
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 2: that kind of programming. I think that's really healthy, not

1351
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 2: just for the golf club's economics, but also for it

1352
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 2: creates that stickiness. I come from software, so like, I'm

1353
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 2: constantly thinking about retention rates, like how do we make

1354
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 2: sure that we keep people in. I also think that,

1355
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 2: you know, when push comes to shove, a really great

1356
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 2: golf experience at a reasonable price is going to be

1357
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 2: the last membership you drop. I could very well be

1358
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:27,679
Speaker 2: wrong on that, and I think everybody's motivation is different,

1359
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 2: but I feel pretty good that at the price point

1360
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 2: that we're at, it'd be I'm not going to say foolish,

1361
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 2: but like if you had to choose between one that is,

1362
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:39,640
Speaker 2: you know, equally far away or tough to get to

1363
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:42,360
Speaker 2: and costs five times as much and the golf course

1364
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 2: is as good as you know, why why wouldn't you

1365
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 2: keep the one that's a little bit more affordable and

1366
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 2: maybe a little bit more family friendly or you know,

1367
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:54,639
Speaker 2: again that's my inherent bias, but those are the thoughts

1368
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 2: that come to mind. I suppose.

1369
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there's there's something about the older model

1370
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:07,599
Speaker 1: of the American private club, the local club, that maybe

1371
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 1: has been lost a little bit, perhaps because a lot

1372
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 1: of these clubs struggled during the recession or even before that.

1373
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: But local clubs in a lot of places are or

1374
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 1: used to be general local institutions. It's where you'd go

1375
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 1: to get married, It's where you'd go to have a

1376
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: nice meal, it's where you'd go for a bridge night

1377
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 1: or something like that. You know, there would be all

1378
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: sorts of events happening at the local club. It was

1379
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 1: the local club. That's what you went and did that,

1380
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: and there were members who would play golf and stuff

1381
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:48,600
Speaker 1: like that. But it was generally fairly open to the community.

1382
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:52,759
Speaker 1: And it seems like some of that has been lost

1383
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:58,040
Speaker 1: in the past few decades and would seem to be recoverable,

1384
01:10:58,200 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: you know.

1385
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:00,800
Speaker 2: I would think so. I think that, and I know

1386
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 2: that the park has its own they raise, however much

1387
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 2: money in two months to get the park going.

1388
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: But right in that's West West Palm Beach, the municipal

1389
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:10,559
Speaker 1: facility there, and.

1390
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that could be a central hub. And the

1391
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 2: same thing is true at at Winter Park. So I

1392
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 2: think that there are places that do it really well.

1393
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 2: And I know that Chessi, for example, they are very

1394
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:24,720
Speaker 2: profitable in terms of food and beverage because they do

1395
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 2: it right. It's nothing fancy, it's just really good food

1396
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 2: done right. It's not uber expensive. And so it's a

1397
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 2: place that you want to go to. And so like

1398
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 2: I live two hours away, I'd rarely stay overnight, but

1399
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 2: like I kind of want to, you know, like I'd

1400
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 2: prefer to stay overnight because it's such a great experience,

1401
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:43,719
Speaker 2: you know. So I'll say that one of the things

1402
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 2: that I've seen in this environment. So there are a

1403
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 2: couple of clubs in South Carolina. So like Orangeburg Country

1404
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:54,679
Speaker 2: Club is about an hour and ten minutes from downtown Charleston.

1405
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 2: It's probably an hour and a half from Charlotte. It

1406
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 2: is a great older course, you know, a little rough

1407
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 2: around the edges, but totally affordable. It is a community club.

1408
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:06,839
Speaker 2: They're seeing enough to in members coming that are from Charleston,

1409
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:08,639
Speaker 2: that can't get off a wait list, that are willing

1410
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,719
Speaker 2: to drive an hour fifteen minutes. Camden is a great course,

1411
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 2: same thing. And so I think that the many, kind

1412
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 2: of the whack a mole of all this development and

1413
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 2: exclusivity may benefit some of those community clubs in a

1414
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:25,560
Speaker 2: way that is kind of, you know, one of the

1415
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 2: unintended consequences. My concern is more about, you know, the

1416
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 2: clubs on the North short of Chicago where I grew up,

1417
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 2: caddying a lot of those clubs. Before COVID couldn't pay

1418
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 2: younger members to join. There just wasn't and I don't

1419
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 2: know if it was generational, but and then COVID hit

1420
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:43,400
Speaker 2: and then everybody wants to join, and they start, they

1421
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 2: raise their rates, they pay down their debt, and then

1422
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:50,639
Speaker 2: they immediately go back into debt just now investing in

1423
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 2: these new you know whatever, it's new and shiny, and

1424
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 2: that is a recipe for disaster. I think I say

1425
01:12:56,520 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 2: that with such you know, lack of knowledge about you know,

1426
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:02,599
Speaker 2: their vision. And I'm sure we'll get to that point too,

1427
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:05,479
Speaker 2: where we make stupid mistakes about what we spend money on.

1428
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 2: But like we have a like a treehouse. We spent

1429
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 2: a lot of money on building a treehouse, and I

1430
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:12,720
Speaker 2: remember talking to my father about that and he's like,

1431
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 2: you are insane, Like that is the dumbest money you

1432
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 2: could have spent. And I will say that, at least

1433
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 2: as it relates to our mission. I actually feel like

1434
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 2: the return on investment with that will be pretty easy

1435
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 2: to kind of measure because my son, Henry, who's six,

1436
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 2: really not in the golf yet. This is going to

1437
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 2: be the most miserable thing ever if my kids don't

1438
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:35,640
Speaker 2: like golf. But when that treehouse was built, he was like,

1439
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 2: let's go to o'barnall, and so we went there. We

1440
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 2: spent an hour and a half on it, and then

1441
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 2: at the end of it he's like, can we go

1442
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:43,639
Speaker 2: hit balls? I was like, we don't have the driving

1443
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:45,160
Speaker 2: range yet, but yeah, we can hit into the dirt

1444
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 2: like great, Like it got him to play a little

1445
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 2: bit of golf. So maybe there are things that clubs,

1446
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:52,360
Speaker 2: like we stumbled upon that idea, but like, maybe there

1447
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:54,479
Speaker 2: are things that clubs can do where you know, the

1448
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 2: grand scheme of things, it's golf adjacent, the golf related

1449
01:13:57,520 --> 01:13:59,599
Speaker 2: and it's not a huge investment, but it will bring

1450
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 2: again that's stickiness to their membership.

1451
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 1: All right, Nick, thank you so much for coming on

1452
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 1: the podcast. Really enjoyed this conversation and best of luck

1453
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 1: with Ald Barnwell.

1454
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,600
Speaker 2: Thank you thanks for putting up with my app and

1455
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 2: Goo Ahead.

1456
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:24,680
Speaker 1: This episode of the Friday Golf Podcast was produced by

1457
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 1: Matt Rusius. Thank you, Matt. If you'd like to do

1458
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 1: something really quick that helps us a lot, go to

1459
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 1: wherever you're listening to this podcast and give us a

1460
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: rating and review. We read all the feedback that we

1461
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 1: get and we like hearing it from people, so if

1462
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 1: you do that, it will help us find new listeners,

1463
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 1: and it will also give us good information about what

1464
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 1: we're doing well and what we could do better. Thank

1465
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: you for listening to this episode. We'll be back again

1466
01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 1: soon with another