WEBVTT - El Chapo Trial Roundup with Emily Saul on Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>Right now though, and you know, just speaking for Jack

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<v Speaker 1>and myself, we look forward to this all week. Checking

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<v Speaker 1>in with Emily Saul of The New York Post for

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<v Speaker 1>the latest on the El Chapo trial, which, if it

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<v Speaker 1>were not the era of Trump, where everybody's hair is

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<v Speaker 1>on fire and screaming at each other and kids on

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<v Speaker 1>the mall and old Indians and the rest of it.

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<v Speaker 1>If we weren't living through this, everybody would be talking

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<v Speaker 1>about the El Chopo trial, Emily joins us. Now, Hey, Emily,

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<v Speaker 1>how are you, good morning? I'm well, thank you, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you for spending little time with us again, So tell

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<v Speaker 1>us what's unfolded in the last few days. At the

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<v Speaker 1>l Chapel trial. It's been a it's been a very

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<v Speaker 1>dramatic last couple of days. Um, we've had family drama.

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<v Speaker 1>We've heard about Emma's involvements. Um, those were completely new

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<v Speaker 1>details that we've never gotten before. And is that is

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<v Speaker 1>the wife, Yes, his wife, Emma cornell Um, who we

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<v Speaker 1>now have been told aided in his infamous two thousands

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen prison escape, the one with the tunnel in the motorcycle. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>in fairness to her, if I went to my wife instead, Judy,

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<v Speaker 1>can you help me with an infamous prison escape? And

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<v Speaker 1>she said no, that would affect our marital bonds, very

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<v Speaker 1>very likely. She had a number of things to consider,

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<v Speaker 1>and a motorcycle. Was he riding the motorcycle in the

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<v Speaker 1>tunnel or did you run through the tunnel and get

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<v Speaker 1>on a motorcycle? So the motorcycle was in was in

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<v Speaker 1>the tunnel's tunnel. It was likely it was likely a

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<v Speaker 1>byproduct of the building of the tunnel, because it looked

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit more like a trolley cart that continued

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<v Speaker 1>to remove dirt. But after he wrote that motorcycle, he

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<v Speaker 1>on the back of an a TV and was taken

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<v Speaker 1>to a warehouse where Um. He was then transferred to

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<v Speaker 1>an airplane where he jumped on a horse. UM. And

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<v Speaker 1>then yeah, yesterday we had definitely the most graphic testimony yet.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's been a it's it's been an interesting it's

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<v Speaker 1>been an interesting couple of days. Yesterday jurors heard about

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<v Speaker 1>three murders that Mr Guzman himself is alleged to having

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<v Speaker 1>with his own hands, I mean with a gun, but

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<v Speaker 1>him personally, though he didn't order them, Okay, him personally,

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<v Speaker 1>not those that he ordered. And I will warn you

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<v Speaker 1>those are probably the details of those are very graphic,

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<v Speaker 1>probably not suitable for many of your viewers. It was

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<v Speaker 1>brutal to the point where I've I've seen a lot

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<v Speaker 1>in court over the years, and it was it was

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<v Speaker 1>astounding today, even by even by court reporter standards. They

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<v Speaker 1>were gruesome. Okay, So this trial has been going on

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<v Speaker 1>for how long now, we just wrapped up our tense

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<v Speaker 1>fleets weak. So what I've been following from your reporting, um,

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<v Speaker 1>is how he I knew he bought off mayors, city councilman,

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<v Speaker 1>police force, but then then you go up to the

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<v Speaker 1>governors and clear up to the president. He had such

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<v Speaker 1>a network of people helping him, and it was it well,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess it was the old silver or leads some

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<v Speaker 1>of me paid off and someone were just scared of him. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean most definitely. You know, he had a number.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't and it wasn't just him. It was because

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<v Speaker 1>of the vast nature of his network and the number

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<v Speaker 1>of people he had across the country who had access

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<v Speaker 1>to a number of different public officials and offices, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>be they any of the variety, like they have a

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<v Speaker 1>number of different tiers of police in Mexico um or

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like the their equivalent of the attorney's General's office.

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<v Speaker 1>They just had people. There were so many connections across

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<v Speaker 1>this well, and they got to people so early that

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<v Speaker 1>you would have people early on in their political careers

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<v Speaker 1>who were taking bribes, perhaps by force, because they were

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<v Speaker 1>afraid not to, and as they ascended in their careers,

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<v Speaker 1>they're sort of once you start taking bribes, you don't.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't. You can't just say suddenly, I'm no longer

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<v Speaker 1>going to help you, right, you went too far, I'm out.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't work that way. And now if you don't,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't leave the cartel. And in Mexico, so worth

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<v Speaker 1>pointing out for those who are not familiar with it,

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<v Speaker 1>for a lower level official to be approached and either

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<v Speaker 1>take a few bucks or a few bullets is not

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<v Speaker 1>way out of them the norm. I mean, that's not

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<v Speaker 1>that extraordinary development. And you point out then that person

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<v Speaker 1>is reasonably successful before you know, if they're the governor. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's troubling. I hadn't really thought about it anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>What I don't understand, Emily, and this is really interesting

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<v Speaker 1>to me. At what point do you become a narco state? Um?

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<v Speaker 1>Because it would grow over time, and there's a tipping

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<v Speaker 1>point to where even if you were you wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>be a good law abiding citizen, you might think, boy,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll bet everybody in this courthouse works for El Chapo.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't speak my mind here. I have no allies.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, no, definitely. I mean it's a very it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's a very complicated landscape. Um. You know, I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not an expert certainly, and um and you know

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<v Speaker 1>the system in Mexico. But I think it's it's just

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<v Speaker 1>you know, generally, if you if you feel like your

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<v Speaker 1>public officials are corrupt, which I mean speaking with Mexican

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<v Speaker 1>reporters who are here covering the case UM. And especially

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<v Speaker 1>if you have someone who is as mythological as as

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<v Speaker 1>Chaco is, you know, he's he's a benefactor in certain

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<v Speaker 1>areas because he would provide certain assistance to UH towns

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<v Speaker 1>that felt neglected by UM by their government officials. The

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<v Speaker 1>sort of you end up with this UH, this interesting

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<v Speaker 1>dichotomy of who you know who will take care of you?

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<v Speaker 1>Who do you trust? The classic, the classic people been

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<v Speaker 1>doing it all over the world, you see, isis does

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<v Speaker 1>that in Sometimes you go in and you know, you restore,

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<v Speaker 1>restore law and order and pick up the garbage and

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<v Speaker 1>UH and keep the electricity on, and they're in the

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<v Speaker 1>populations on your side. Sure it's social you know, if

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<v Speaker 1>you have UH, if you have social services that are missing,

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<v Speaker 1>and you have a essentially an organization like the cartel

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<v Speaker 1>is that comes in and provide structure, it's a it's

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<v Speaker 1>a very easy way to UM to bring people in

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<v Speaker 1>the Italian mom New York, New Jersey, you know, early

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<v Speaker 1>twentieth century. UH. Emily saul Is the New York Post

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<v Speaker 1>reporter covering the l Chapo trial. Have you gotten any

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<v Speaker 1>sense from some of the cross examination Emily during say

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<v Speaker 1>that the details of the gruesome you know, tortures and

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<v Speaker 1>murders and that sort of thing. How's the defense dealt

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<v Speaker 1>with that? Well, so far, the violence of the trial

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<v Speaker 1>has been very very sanitized. Um, we sort of got

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<v Speaker 1>the sense that the judge told the prosecutors they got

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<v Speaker 1>one chance to really relay all of the details, and

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<v Speaker 1>they used that chance yesterday. So we haven't started cross

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<v Speaker 1>on this witness yet, so we don't know how they

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<v Speaker 1>will deal with that specifically. Um, so far, the defense uh,

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<v Speaker 1>with witnesses who have said, you know, well, Chapol commission

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<v Speaker 1>to this murder, Chappo commission that murder, their basic try

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<v Speaker 1>g has been to just attack the general credibility of

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<v Speaker 1>the cooperator, who you know, has the member of the

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<v Speaker 1>cartel has often been in violent like involved in violence

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<v Speaker 1>themselves or at least another criminal activity. Um you know,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe had a drug problem, maybe has nefarious reasons for uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and just you know a lambasting chap Oh

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<v Speaker 1>it's you know, they have they've they've gone ahold. It's

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<v Speaker 1>typically just been a credibility issue. Um, right, Well, you're

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<v Speaker 1>not going to find many angels who know what was

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<v Speaker 1>going on. I don't remember if we've talked about this.

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<v Speaker 1>How are they protecting the jury? Is the jury? Um?

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<v Speaker 1>Are they kept anonymous because he only has to get yes?

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<v Speaker 1>So UM, the jury is is very very protected. The

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<v Speaker 1>jury selection process was anonymous only in jury services here

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<v Speaker 1>in the courthouse. UM is aware of the furs actual identities. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>The judge himself, the the prosecutor's, the defense attorneys only

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<v Speaker 1>know them by a number. UM they are are. They

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<v Speaker 1>are picked up every day from private locations by the U. S.

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<v Speaker 1>Marshal Service and transported in that UM from you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to and from those locations. But there are a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of propations that have been taken surrounding the jury. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean they are in the room, they're in full view

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<v Speaker 1>of Mr Guzman, of the public and whoever may make

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<v Speaker 1>it into the courtroom. Yeah, I wouldn't want that. But

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<v Speaker 1>the details of their of their of their lives that

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<v Speaker 1>have been have been kept. Emily Stall of The New

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<v Speaker 1>York Post to Emily, fabulous job. As always, again, we

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate the time and uh and we look forward to

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<v Speaker 1>talking again. All right, thank you so much for having

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely and of course we'll have links to Emily's in

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<v Speaker 1>her colleagues reporting on this story so you can find

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<v Speaker 1>it quickly at the New York Post dot com. We

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<v Speaker 1>we say this all the time. We so a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people really do take our culture of honesty and

0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.360
<v Speaker 1>law and order for granted. That so people are law

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<v Speaker 1>abiding and respectful of the law. It's got to be

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<v Speaker 1>frustrating to El Chapo that here he's at the word

0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.160
<v Speaker 1>house and what you're telling me, there's not somebody that's

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<v Speaker 1>gonna leak me to names, because that's the way it

0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.040
<v Speaker 1>works in Mexico. There's always somebody who will leak me

0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:11.040
<v Speaker 1>to names. Yeah, you might have the judge and prosecutor

0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.920
<v Speaker 1>in Mexico. Yeah, civilization is a miracle. But once people

0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.079
<v Speaker 1>get used to it, they take it for granted. Sure,

0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.160
<v Speaker 1>they think it's the permanent state of things, and that

0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.920
<v Speaker 1>it's inevitable that we are reasonably civilized and reasonably safe

0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.679
<v Speaker 1>in our homes. Um, it's not true. All you have

0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.959
<v Speaker 1>to do is open your eyeballs and look around the world.

0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.400
<v Speaker 1>Do you want me to name thirty seven countries where

0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.360
<v Speaker 1>people aren't safe in their homes, aren't safe you know,

0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:39.959
<v Speaker 1>speaking out politically, aren't safe from drug lords and gang

0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.679
<v Speaker 1>lords and and and terrorist organizations. I could name you

0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.079
<v Speaker 1>thirty seven and take a while because I probably get

0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.400
<v Speaker 1>bogged down midway through Africa. But but people take that

0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:50.439
<v Speaker 1>for granted. It's just the nature of humanity. Yeah, the

0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.840
<v Speaker 1>natural state of man is nasty, violent, brutish and short.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a shortened stature, but shortened life. This is

0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.960
<v Speaker 1>an an natural thing we have going on right now,

0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.440
<v Speaker 1>where you can, you know, live your life and never

0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:10.080
<v Speaker 1>get extorted or strong armed most of us right by anybody, right.

0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:15.480
<v Speaker 1>It's a completely unnatural, practically americal. Yeah, whether you have

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<v Speaker 1>your own bathroom or you share one with your family,

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