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Speaker 1: Right now though, and you know, just speaking for Jack
Speaker 1: and myself, we look forward to this all week. Checking
Speaker 1: in with Emily Saul of The New York Post for
Speaker 1: the latest on the El Chapo trial, which, if it
Speaker 1: were not the era of Trump, where everybody's hair is
Speaker 1: on fire and screaming at each other and kids on
Speaker 1: the mall and old Indians and the rest of it.
Speaker 1: If we weren't living through this, everybody would be talking
Speaker 1: about the El Chopo trial, Emily joins us. Now, Hey, Emily,
Speaker 1: how are you, good morning? I'm well, thank you, thank
Speaker 1: you for spending little time with us again, So tell
Speaker 1: us what's unfolded in the last few days. At the
Speaker 1: l Chapel trial. It's been a it's been a very
Speaker 1: dramatic last couple of days. Um, we've had family drama.
Speaker 1: We've heard about Emma's involvements. Um, those were completely new
Speaker 1: details that we've never gotten before. And is that is
Speaker 1: the wife, Yes, his wife, Emma cornell Um, who we
Speaker 1: now have been told aided in his infamous two thousands
Speaker 1: fifteen prison escape, the one with the tunnel in the motorcycle. Well,
Speaker 1: in fairness to her, if I went to my wife instead, Judy,
Speaker 1: can you help me with an infamous prison escape? And
Speaker 1: she said no, that would affect our marital bonds, very
Speaker 1: very likely. She had a number of things to consider,
Speaker 1: and a motorcycle. Was he riding the motorcycle in the
Speaker 1: tunnel or did you run through the tunnel and get
Speaker 1: on a motorcycle? So the motorcycle was in was in
Speaker 1: the tunnel's tunnel. It was likely it was likely a
Speaker 1: byproduct of the building of the tunnel, because it looked
Speaker 1: a little bit more like a trolley cart that continued
Speaker 1: to remove dirt. But after he wrote that motorcycle, he
Speaker 1: on the back of an a TV and was taken
Speaker 1: to a warehouse where Um. He was then transferred to
Speaker 1: an airplane where he jumped on a horse. UM. And
Speaker 1: then yeah, yesterday we had definitely the most graphic testimony yet.
Speaker 1: So it's been a it's it's been an interesting it's
Speaker 1: been an interesting couple of days. Yesterday jurors heard about
Speaker 1: three murders that Mr Guzman himself is alleged to having
Speaker 1: with his own hands, I mean with a gun, but
Speaker 1: him personally, though he didn't order them, Okay, him personally,
Speaker 1: not those that he ordered. And I will warn you
Speaker 1: those are probably the details of those are very graphic,
Speaker 1: probably not suitable for many of your viewers. It was
Speaker 1: brutal to the point where I've I've seen a lot
Speaker 1: in court over the years, and it was it was
Speaker 1: astounding today, even by even by court reporter standards. They
Speaker 1: were gruesome. Okay, So this trial has been going on
Speaker 1: for how long now, we just wrapped up our tense
Speaker 1: fleets weak. So what I've been following from your reporting, um,
Speaker 1: is how he I knew he bought off mayors, city councilman,
Speaker 1: police force, but then then you go up to the
Speaker 1: governors and clear up to the president. He had such
Speaker 1: a network of people helping him, and it was it well,
Speaker 1: I guess it was the old silver or leads some
Speaker 1: of me paid off and someone were just scared of him. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean most definitely. You know, he had a number.
Speaker 1: It wasn't and it wasn't just him. It was because
Speaker 1: of the vast nature of his network and the number
Speaker 1: of people he had across the country who had access
Speaker 1: to a number of different public officials and offices, you know,
Speaker 1: be they any of the variety, like they have a
Speaker 1: number of different tiers of police in Mexico um or
Speaker 1: you know, like the their equivalent of the attorney's General's office.
Speaker 1: They just had people. There were so many connections across
Speaker 1: this well, and they got to people so early that
Speaker 1: you would have people early on in their political careers
Speaker 1: who were taking bribes, perhaps by force, because they were
Speaker 1: afraid not to, and as they ascended in their careers,
Speaker 1: they're sort of once you start taking bribes, you don't.
Speaker 1: You can't. You can't just say suddenly, I'm no longer
Speaker 1: going to help you, right, you went too far, I'm out.
Speaker 1: It doesn't work that way. And now if you don't,
Speaker 1: you don't leave the cartel. And in Mexico, so worth
Speaker 1: pointing out for those who are not familiar with it,
Speaker 1: for a lower level official to be approached and either
Speaker 1: take a few bucks or a few bullets is not
Speaker 1: way out of them the norm. I mean, that's not
Speaker 1: that extraordinary development. And you point out then that person
Speaker 1: is reasonably successful before you know, if they're the governor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's troubling. I hadn't really thought about it anyway.
Speaker 1: What I don't understand, Emily, and this is really interesting
Speaker 1: to me. At what point do you become a narco state? Um?
Speaker 1: Because it would grow over time, and there's a tipping
Speaker 1: point to where even if you were you wanted to
Speaker 1: be a good law abiding citizen, you might think, boy,
Speaker 1: I'll bet everybody in this courthouse works for El Chapo.
Speaker 1: I can't speak my mind here. I have no allies.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, no, definitely. I mean it's a very it's
Speaker 1: it's a very complicated landscape. Um. You know, I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert certainly, and um and you know
Speaker 1: the system in Mexico. But I think it's it's just
Speaker 1: you know, generally, if you if you feel like your
Speaker 1: public officials are corrupt, which I mean speaking with Mexican
Speaker 1: reporters who are here covering the case UM. And especially
Speaker 1: if you have someone who is as mythological as as
Speaker 1: Chaco is, you know, he's he's a benefactor in certain
Speaker 1: areas because he would provide certain assistance to UH towns
Speaker 1: that felt neglected by UM by their government officials. The
Speaker 1: sort of you end up with this UH, this interesting
Speaker 1: dichotomy of who you know who will take care of you?
Speaker 1: Who do you trust? The classic, the classic people been
Speaker 1: doing it all over the world, you see, isis does
Speaker 1: that in Sometimes you go in and you know, you restore,
Speaker 1: restore law and order and pick up the garbage and
Speaker 1: UH and keep the electricity on, and they're in the
Speaker 1: populations on your side. Sure it's social you know, if
Speaker 1: you have UH, if you have social services that are missing,
Speaker 1: and you have a essentially an organization like the cartel
Speaker 1: is that comes in and provide structure, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a very easy way to UM to bring people in
Speaker 1: the Italian mom New York, New Jersey, you know, early
Speaker 1: twentieth century. UH. Emily saul Is the New York Post
Speaker 1: reporter covering the l Chapo trial. Have you gotten any
Speaker 1: sense from some of the cross examination Emily during say
Speaker 1: that the details of the gruesome you know, tortures and
Speaker 1: murders and that sort of thing. How's the defense dealt
Speaker 1: with that? Well, so far, the violence of the trial
Speaker 1: has been very very sanitized. Um, we sort of got
Speaker 1: the sense that the judge told the prosecutors they got
Speaker 1: one chance to really relay all of the details, and
Speaker 1: they used that chance yesterday. So we haven't started cross
Speaker 1: on this witness yet, so we don't know how they
Speaker 1: will deal with that specifically. Um, so far, the defense uh,
Speaker 1: with witnesses who have said, you know, well, Chapol commission
Speaker 1: to this murder, Chappo commission that murder, their basic try
Speaker 1: g has been to just attack the general credibility of
Speaker 1: the cooperator, who you know, has the member of the
Speaker 1: cartel has often been in violent like involved in violence
Speaker 1: themselves or at least another criminal activity. Um you know,
Speaker 1: maybe had a drug problem, maybe has nefarious reasons for uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and just you know a lambasting chap Oh
Speaker 1: it's you know, they have they've they've gone ahold. It's
Speaker 1: typically just been a credibility issue. Um, right, Well, you're
Speaker 1: not going to find many angels who know what was
Speaker 1: going on. I don't remember if we've talked about this.
Speaker 1: How are they protecting the jury? Is the jury? Um?
Speaker 1: Are they kept anonymous because he only has to get yes?
Speaker 1: So UM, the jury is is very very protected. The
Speaker 1: jury selection process was anonymous only in jury services here
Speaker 1: in the courthouse. UM is aware of the furs actual identities. UM.
Speaker 1: The judge himself, the the prosecutor's, the defense attorneys only
Speaker 1: know them by a number. UM they are are. They
Speaker 1: are picked up every day from private locations by the U. S.
Speaker 1: Marshal Service and transported in that UM from you know,
Speaker 1: to and from those locations. But there are a lot
Speaker 1: of propations that have been taken surrounding the jury. I
Speaker 1: mean they are in the room, they're in full view
Speaker 1: of Mr Guzman, of the public and whoever may make
Speaker 1: it into the courtroom. Yeah, I wouldn't want that. But
Speaker 1: the details of their of their of their lives that
Speaker 1: have been have been kept. Emily Stall of The New
Speaker 1: York Post to Emily, fabulous job. As always, again, we
Speaker 1: appreciate the time and uh and we look forward to
Speaker 1: talking again. All right, thank you so much for having
Speaker 1: absolutely and of course we'll have links to Emily's in
Speaker 1: her colleagues reporting on this story so you can find
Speaker 1: it quickly at the New York Post dot com. We
Speaker 1: we say this all the time. We so a lot
Speaker 1: of people really do take our culture of honesty and
Speaker 1: law and order for granted. That so people are law
Speaker 1: abiding and respectful of the law. It's got to be
Speaker 1: frustrating to El Chapo that here he's at the word
Speaker 1: house and what you're telling me, there's not somebody that's
Speaker 1: gonna leak me to names, because that's the way it
Speaker 1: works in Mexico. There's always somebody who will leak me
Speaker 1: to names. Yeah, you might have the judge and prosecutor
Speaker 1: in Mexico. Yeah, civilization is a miracle. But once people
Speaker 1: get used to it, they take it for granted. Sure,
Speaker 1: they think it's the permanent state of things, and that
Speaker 1: it's inevitable that we are reasonably civilized and reasonably safe
Speaker 1: in our homes. Um, it's not true. All you have
Speaker 1: to do is open your eyeballs and look around the world.
Speaker 1: Do you want me to name thirty seven countries where
Speaker 1: people aren't safe in their homes, aren't safe you know,
Speaker 1: speaking out politically, aren't safe from drug lords and gang
Speaker 1: lords and and and terrorist organizations. I could name you
Speaker 1: thirty seven and take a while because I probably get
Speaker 1: bogged down midway through Africa. But but people take that
Speaker 1: for granted. It's just the nature of humanity. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: natural state of man is nasty, violent, brutish and short.
Speaker 1: This is a shortened stature, but shortened life. This is
Speaker 1: an an natural thing we have going on right now,
Speaker 1: where you can, you know, live your life and never
Speaker 1: get extorted or strong armed most of us right by anybody, right.
Speaker 1: It's a completely unnatural, practically americal. Yeah, whether you have
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