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Speaker 1: Welcome to Behind the Bastards, the podcast that is only

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Speaker 1: ever introduced properly once, and it's this time. So you've

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Speaker 1: got your one. Yeah, thank you. This is the only time, Sovie.

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Speaker 1: Next time I'm going to be back to just shouting

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Speaker 1: the name of a dead dictator or screaming incoherently. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have it any other way, Robert. This is our one.

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Speaker 1: This is our one. And that good introduction was to

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Speaker 1: celebrate our very special guest for today's episode, Samantha McVeigh

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Speaker 1: of stuff Mom never told you. Oh, I feel so

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Speaker 1: special thing. Thank you. Thank you, Samantha uh not related

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Speaker 1: to friend of the pod to McVeigh had to do it.

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Speaker 1: I knew it was coming. I was really really scared.

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Speaker 1: Spelled differently, I'm adopted. Let's just go and put those

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Speaker 1: two caveats in there. Yeah, I mean, you know, we

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Speaker 1: always bring up we always bring up old cousin Timmy

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Speaker 1: when we can't. Who doesn't Cousin Timmy and Uncle Ted

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Speaker 1: um are our north stars. No, Um, you know we're

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Speaker 1: not talking of out terrorists today, Um, But in a

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Speaker 1: way we kind of are. We're talking about a bunch

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Speaker 1: of people who thought that they were doing good things

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Speaker 1: and wound up having a larger negative impact than any

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Speaker 1: single terrorist I've ever heard of. And that's always a story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: mostly yeah, actually absolutely yeah. Well and white women and

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Speaker 1: white women. There's a white woman who's factors pretty centrally

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Speaker 1: into this story as well. But yes, mostly white men.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah, so um have you ever heard Samantha of

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Speaker 1: the Dalkon Shield? I have not to me. Oh this

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Speaker 1: is a bad story. Oh no, break our friendship. That's

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Speaker 1: just beginning. Yeah, no, it's gonna shatter everything. Hell, here

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Speaker 1: we go. None of this is going to be good,

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Speaker 1: so obviously, Samantha. The The I U D or intrauterine

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Speaker 1: device is a very popular form of birth control, at

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Speaker 1: least from like a user satisfaction. Yeah yeah, most people

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Speaker 1: who get them tend to be happy with them. Um.

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Speaker 1: Gynecologists emphasize that the devices are extremely safe and effective,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, by some counts, the basic idea behind

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Speaker 1: an i U D, which is a device you insert

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Speaker 1: into the uterus in order to like, you know, stop

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Speaker 1: pregnancy from happening, goes back. It could go back as

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Speaker 1: far as a thousand years. People have been doing versions

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Speaker 1: of this for a long time. Can I just say

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited that you have me on for this episode. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it could be more fitting. Sophie

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Speaker 1: could job Robert, great job. Sophie nailed it on this one.

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Speaker 1: All I did was read about a horrible, horrible tragedy

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Speaker 1: for three days. So obviously, modern i U d s

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Speaker 1: tend to be hormone based, which works better with the

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Speaker 1: caveat that it can cause some health issues. Um. The

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Speaker 1: Marina would be the best modern example of that. There's

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Speaker 1: currently a big class action lawsuit brewing against Bear Pharmaceuticals. Um.

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Speaker 1: The device has kind of a nasty tendency to perforate

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Speaker 1: the uterus of its wearer, which keep that in mind.

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Speaker 1: We'll be talking more about that in a minute. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's also issues with the synthetic hormone the Marina releases, progestin.

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Speaker 1: There's another set of lawsuits that argues this can cause

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Speaker 1: idiopathic intercranial hypertension UM and basically things that mimic tumors UM,

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Speaker 1: which you know has happened to someone pretty close to me.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's it's it's it's messed up, um,

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Speaker 1: but also still kind of being litigated. We don't know

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Speaker 1: exactly that it's the I D that caused it, but obviously,

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Speaker 1: like you know, any kind of medical device, there's issues,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think, um, you know, it's possible bears

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Speaker 1: culpable to some extent in you know, hiding aspects of it.

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Speaker 1: But it's also possible that they did nothing wrong, and

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Speaker 1: that just just you know, when you have a device

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Speaker 1: out like this that's hormonal, over the course of years

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Speaker 1: you start to realize their side effects. That's a pretty

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Speaker 1: normal part of medicine. There's always like at least five

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Speaker 1: percent or less chance that you hear that extra warning. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: So I don't like, I certainly you know what whatever

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Speaker 1: is actually happening with the Marina. We don't really know

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Speaker 1: the full extent or the full case of it yet,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't seem like a case where people were

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Speaker 1: just going off whole hog and doing something they knew

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Speaker 1: we're going to hurt people. The story of the Dalkon

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Speaker 1: Shield is a very different tail. This might be one

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Speaker 1: of the darkest stories in the history of contraception. A

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Speaker 1: sci fi name for a bad weapon. Yeah, it sounds

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Speaker 1: like it sounds kind of like a spaceship actually like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I expected to be on star trucks. Someone tell me, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it'd be a Romulan vessel maybe yeah, maybe Cardassian. Um,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, Samath and I went. There was a moment

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Speaker 1: of boss, Yeah, what have I got myself into? Okay,

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Speaker 1: keep going. So the first modern i u D was

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Speaker 1: invented in nineteen o nine by a German guy. It

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Speaker 1: was made out of silkworm gut, and it was not

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Speaker 1: very popular. Um probably not hard to see why. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that it was a bad i U D.

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Speaker 1: But silkworm gut doesn't seem like something you would want

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Speaker 1: to put in your body. Um, I don't know. Uh. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Ernst Graffenberg, who was another German, invented the ring i

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Speaker 1: U D not long after. He's also Graffenberg is the

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Speaker 1: namesake for the g spot um. Yeah. And as a result,

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Speaker 1: he was very unpopular in Nazi Germany, both because he

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Speaker 1: was yeah, focused on like the fact that women could

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Speaker 1: feel pleasure and on stopping you yeah. Yeah. The Nazis

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Speaker 1: also weren't a big on the concept of contraception um,

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Speaker 1: because that meant less German babies, which was not not

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Speaker 1: not there not there. Yeah, yeah, there there were, of

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Speaker 1: course exactly specific genocides. Um an anti genocide for one

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Speaker 1: group of people. I guess so not that probably shouldn't

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Speaker 1: even go down that so relatively decent. I U D

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Speaker 1: started being invented in the early sixties, and the device

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Speaker 1: has gained rapid popularity among people with uterus is in

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Speaker 1: a desire to avoid getting babies and said, uterus is um?

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Speaker 1: You do? I don't know this state of affair, you do?

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Speaker 1: I m hmm, I don't know. I'll allow it, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think. I think it's uterus is um. I've

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Speaker 1: never had to say the plural. So this state of

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Speaker 1: affairs continued until nineteen seventy one, when of parmaceutical Giant

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Speaker 1: named A. H. Robbin's debut, the Dalkon Shield. The Dalkon

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Speaker 1: Shield featured a revolutionary design and like it, like, hmm,

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Speaker 1: what's a bad revolution? Um, they're all pretty great. Imagine

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Speaker 1: a bad revolution. It was not. It's not a good revolution.

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Speaker 1: It looks like Yeah, I'm trying to picture one. Keep going. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to get this word picture in my head

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Speaker 1: so I can follow along. I'm gonna actually suggest Sophie

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Speaker 1: finds a picture and sends it to you. While I

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Speaker 1: describe it, some people, most people will describe it as

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Speaker 1: looking like a crab, I actually think it looks more

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Speaker 1: like a trilobyte. Um. It's a tiny piece of plastic

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Speaker 1: with like five spiky legs, and the legs are meant

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Speaker 1: to stop it from coming free um once it's once

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Speaker 1: it's inside of you. Um. But it kind of looks

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Speaker 1: like the trilobite, the silhouette of a trilobite. Like you

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Speaker 1: look at it and it immediately looks like something that

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be inside a person. Okay, so I'm thinking of

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Speaker 1: the Matrix, that thing that comes out like absolutely, yes,

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Speaker 1: it does look like the thing that comes out of

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Speaker 1: Neo's stomach in the Matrix. You're going like, I don't

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Speaker 1: have a uterus. But as soon as I saw it,

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Speaker 1: I was like, that should not be in a person.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, it crawled and it's going to it looks

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Speaker 1: like a monster. Okay. I love that story honestly, which

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Speaker 1: is yeah, as much like a space invader as it

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Speaker 1: does like a crap um. So yeah, the legs were

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Speaker 1: kind of meant a hooking place inside of your uterus,

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Speaker 1: and it also had a string, which was how it

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Speaker 1: could be removed later, and we'll talk more about the

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Speaker 1: string later. Like obviously a lot of I U d

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Speaker 1: s have strings, they tend to do them differently than

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Speaker 1: the Dalkon shield did for a very good reason. Did

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Speaker 1: you just did you just open the image because you

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Speaker 1: just made a face? Oh yeah, what do you think

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Speaker 1: of that? That looks like like a shoehorn with like

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Speaker 1: an old school what is happening? We can debate on

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Speaker 1: what it looks like, but it definitely looks like something

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Speaker 1: that should not go in a person. I think, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's you don't put that in yourself. You're really bored.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if that's the thing, you do you but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I not no, no shame, but like

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Speaker 1: if that is your thing, you're probably going to the doctor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so um yeah. As I stated, the legs

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Speaker 1: were kind of meant a hooking in place inside of

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Speaker 1: your uterus and had a string um and most importantly

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Speaker 1: for what's going to come next, the shield was invented

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Speaker 1: by two male doctors, Hugh Davis and Erwin Learner. Uh

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Speaker 1: Davis was the gynecologist, and he was a major opponent

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Speaker 1: of the pill which was new at the time and

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Speaker 1: at the time had a lot of problems. They've just

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Speaker 1: been like a big like congressional trial over it because

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Speaker 1: it had been the company's selling it had misrepresented the

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Speaker 1: side effects UM and I think they make like that

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Speaker 1: it's better now, but obviously there's still side effects to

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Speaker 1: the pill. UM. So there was a big back lash

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Speaker 1: against the pill because the companies that has been like

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Speaker 1: this thing, it's just consequence free birth control, and it

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Speaker 1: absolutely is not. And so people were there was a

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Speaker 1: big backlash against the pill. And Davis, this guy in

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Speaker 1: ecologist who makes the Dalkon Shield, is both like doesn't

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Speaker 1: like the pill and also sees an opportunity in the

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Speaker 1: backlash against it. UM and so he and this guy

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Speaker 1: Learner form a company called the Dalkon Company, and they

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Speaker 1: start marketing their shield as an alternative to the pill

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Speaker 1: without any side effects UM, unlike the pill, which had

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Speaker 1: side effects. Let me guess that that's factually incorrect. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it didn't wind up being true. So I just really

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Speaker 1: hung on the back that's called the shield itself, like

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Speaker 1: the name of the naming of it altogether, the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, to be fair, it kind of looks like

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Speaker 1: a shield. It does kind of look like a shield.

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Speaker 1: Weird cooking crab shield, key chain shield. Yeah, horrible, horrible,

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Speaker 1: definitely horrible. So yeah, the pharmaceutical giant Age Robbins, though,

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Speaker 1: buys into dal cons like marketing scheme and purchases the

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Speaker 1: shields because they want the rights to sell it and

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Speaker 1: manufacture and stuff. Um. And they launched like an unprecedented

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Speaker 1: ad blitz, the biggest ad campaign that had ever preceded

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Speaker 1: a contraceptives release onto the market in the United States

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Speaker 1: is launched by a Age Robbins to sell the Dalkon shield.

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Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote from the Embryo Project now to

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Speaker 1: talk about that. In nineteen seventy one, the Age Robbins company,

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Speaker 1: producers of the cough medicine robotus and bought the device

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Speaker 1: from Davis and put it on the market. The Age

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Speaker 1: Robbin's company began selling the shields in the US and

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Speaker 1: Puerto Rico and launched a large marketing campaign for the device.

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Speaker 1: The campaign emphasized the safety of the i U D

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Speaker 1: compared to traditional contraceptive pills. According to reporter Robert Thomas,

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Speaker 1: prior to government regulation of birth control, many Americans were

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Speaker 1: concerned with the safety of birth control pills and sought

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Speaker 1: safer alternatives. The manufacturers of the Dalkon Shield capitalized on that,

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Speaker 1: claiming that the device was safer than existing methods of

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Speaker 1: birth control. So that's you know, kind of including method. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just that's the safest method obviously. The only method

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Speaker 1: with no consequences is the pullout method of the time,

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Speaker 1: as long as you pull out fast enough, right behind

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Speaker 1: the bastards is sponsored by the pullout method. I'm glad

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Speaker 1: to be a part of this. You know, fake sponsor

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Speaker 1: we've had. Well, the pullout method is like heavily sponsored

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Speaker 1: by raytheon, raytheon. The more kids you have, accidentally, the

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Speaker 1: more targets we have for missiles. Um, yeah, sorry, good,

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Speaker 1: you're so good at this. The ad reads alone, fake

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Speaker 1: or real said, I don't know what it can't stop advertising,

213
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, the big ablets comes out and the shield's inventus. Like.

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Speaker 1: The guys who actually made the Dalkon Shield had conducted

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Speaker 1: an internal study before they sold it to Age Robbins,

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Speaker 1: and their studies showed that the device had a failure

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00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:01,920
Speaker 1: rate about one point one percent, and other i U

218
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,480
Speaker 1: D s on the market had a failure rate of

219
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,439
Speaker 1: two to three percent, so they were they advertised of

220
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Speaker 1: like effective better than all the other I U D

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00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,000
Speaker 1: s um That was another big part of their of

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Speaker 1: their claim to fame. It was billed as completely safe, reliable,

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Speaker 1: in consequence free, and since it was mostly plastic, it

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Speaker 1: was made in the same factory as Chapstick, another Age

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Speaker 1: Robin's product. It retailed for four dollars and thirty five cents,

226
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Speaker 1: which made it one of the most affordable methods of

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Speaker 1: long term birth control on the market. So that all

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00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,840
Speaker 1: sounds fine. One point one percent failure rate, cheap, affordable,

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00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,559
Speaker 1: made with the chapstick people. How do they give the

230
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Speaker 1: chapsticks that help you to load that up with chapstick

231
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Speaker 1: it yourself? Yeah, chapsticks. You get a discount if you

232
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Speaker 1: use if if they let you, if you use a chapstick. Still, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be better than every time you say, I

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Speaker 1: keep thinking of the Radish, the dikeon Radish, Oh, the

235
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 1: dikeon Radish, Yes, and like it kind of has sprouts

236
00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,400
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, it would be a say for a

237
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,920
Speaker 1: method of birth control than the Dalcan shield for sure.

238
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Speaker 1: So in nineteen seventy one, the f d A was

239
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Speaker 1: not the all powerful entity that it is today. Drug

240
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,960
Speaker 1: laws were looser, and since the shield was not a

241
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Speaker 1: method of hormonal birth control, it wasn't regulated as a drug,

242
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Speaker 1: so we got to skip the testing process normally required

243
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Speaker 1: for medical devices that go inside a human body. Uh.

244
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Speaker 1: And it kind of turns out, unfortunately, that giant pharmaceutical

245
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Speaker 1: company Age Robbin's lied to everybody about a number of

246
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 1: you know, my minor minor things. For example, they lied

247
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Speaker 1: about the rate at which the device worked because the

248
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Speaker 1: first study into the Shield's efficacy was flawed. It had

249
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,240
Speaker 1: been done by two scientists over a period of eight months,

250
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,680
Speaker 1: with just a handful of it with two people, and

251
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Speaker 1: be like, oh, you didn't get fined in three months?

252
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Speaker 1: Were good? Yeah, it was a tiny number of people

253
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Speaker 1: and it was a short period of time. Um, and

254
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,120
Speaker 1: further study wasn't required by the f d A, so

255
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,000
Speaker 1: Age Robbin's just didn't do any further study. Every time

256
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Speaker 1: you say his name, I do think of like a

257
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Speaker 1: bondvill Like every time you say his name, H. Robbins

258
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 1: or yeah, the Probins, like the H. Holmes, Like it's

259
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,440
Speaker 1: it's like you there it is, Yeah, Age Robbins winds

260
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Speaker 1: up racking up a body count similar to HH Holmes.

261
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Speaker 1: Actually the story yeah so, um so H Robbins like

262
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Speaker 1: these two scientists who invent this thing, you know, study

263
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Speaker 1: a couple of dozen people over a few months and

264
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,480
Speaker 1: are like, this is the failure rate, and age Robbins

265
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,240
Speaker 1: sells it to millions of people without doing any further

266
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Speaker 1: research on it because they don't have to, and companies

267
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,080
Speaker 1: don't do anything they don't have to. Um. And this

268
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,760
Speaker 1: is a problem because the first year's sales suggests the

269
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,880
Speaker 1: failure rate was actually something like five and a half

270
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Speaker 1: percent UM, which makes it twice what other products on

271
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Speaker 1: the market wore, and it would wind up actually being

272
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,200
Speaker 1: much higher than that. UM. So they pretty immediately know

273
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Speaker 1: that it fails a lot more often than they're advertising,

274
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Speaker 1: but they don't change their advertisements because that helps them

275
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Speaker 1: make money now, H Robbins. Yeah, of course H. Robin

276
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Speaker 1: also chose to keep on the d l the fact

277
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Speaker 1: that the shield contained copper salts. Uh, those were an

278
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,520
Speaker 1: active ingredient in the Dalkon shield. Um, no big, no big,

279
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,080
Speaker 1: because if they told people about that, then it would

280
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Speaker 1: have to be regulated as a drug and they would

281
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Speaker 1: have had to go through FDA testing. So they just lied,

282
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Speaker 1: you know, just you know, just slightly, just the book

283
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 1: a little bit, just a little bit. Mhm. Why would

284
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,800
Speaker 1: you you know? This is a very dangerous grift. Yeah,

285
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 1: it's getting it's getting dangerous. Here. To obscure the fact

286
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,280
Speaker 1: that it included medical like it did include drugs without

287
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,160
Speaker 1: technically lying, sales people were instructed to tell clients that

288
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,640
Speaker 1: the Dalkon shield contained a confidential blending of ingredients, because

289
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 1: if you say it's a secret O medient, it's the

290
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,080
Speaker 1: family recipe and please tell me. These people came around

291
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,240
Speaker 1: these sells people with like briefcases to show off their

292
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,640
Speaker 1: dynamic key chain. Oh yeah, no, I've actually seen some

293
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,640
Speaker 1: of the packaging for that. You just got a Dalkon

294
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 1: shield at home? We would love a novel um. Yeah.

295
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,360
Speaker 1: In three years, more than two point two million Dalkon

296
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 1: shields were sold in the United States, making it the

297
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 1: top selling I U D in the nation. Throughout the

298
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 1: early nineteen seventies, A. H. Robbins and the devices inventors

299
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,800
Speaker 1: pocketed massive amounts of money, and all was well, except

300
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,080
Speaker 1: all was not well. That was a lie because the

301
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical giant knew from the beginning that things were horribly

302
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 1: wrong with the Dalkon Shield. And I'm gonna quote here

303
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 1: from a contemporary rite up in mother Jones. Only a

304
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,600
Speaker 1: few months after the Dalkon Shield went on sale in

305
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,720
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, reports of adverse reactions began pouring into

306
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 1: the headquarters of the manufacturer H. Robbins. There were cases

307
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,800
Speaker 1: of pelvic inflammatory disease and infection of the uterus that

308
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,080
Speaker 1: can require weeks of bed rest and antibiotic treatment, sept semia,

309
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 1: blood poisoning, pregnancies resulting from spontaneous abortions at topic, tubal pregnancies,

310
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 1: and perforations of the uterus. In a number of cases

311
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,960
Speaker 1: the damage was so severe as to require hysterectomy. There

312
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,000
Speaker 1: were even medical reports of Dalkon shields ripping their way

313
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,280
Speaker 1: through the walls of the uterus and being found voting

314
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:04,399
Speaker 1: free in the abdominal cavity far from the uterus. So

315
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 1: that's not ideal. Yeah, So this went on for how long?

316
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:16,480
Speaker 1: How many and of associated this I mean, we'll get

317
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,399
Speaker 1: to the end numbers. But you know, they they sell

318
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,840
Speaker 1: millions of these before anything really blows up in the

319
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,200
Speaker 1: media about it. And when I say sell millions of these.

320
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:32,680
Speaker 1: I mean millions of these were put into people's bodies. Um. Yeah, yeah,

321
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,560
Speaker 1: didn't have a clue that this was going to be problematic. Well, no,

322
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,439
Speaker 1: some of them did. Actually, there were doctors who noticed

323
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,760
Speaker 1: the shields flaws almost immediately and planned parenthood. Advocates of

324
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 1: Arizona made this note in a write up quote, not

325
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 1: everyone who laid eyes on the Dalkon shield got a

326
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,440
Speaker 1: warm and fuzzy feeling from it. Those feet gave many

327
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,159
Speaker 1: people The HEB. Gbs Dorothy Lansing and O. B. G.

328
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,240
Speaker 1: Y In from Pennsylvania to right at the shield in

329
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,040
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, calling it a veritable instrument of torture.

330
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,719
Speaker 1: Grouse looking little device with vicious spikes that made removal

331
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,160
Speaker 1: very difficult for the doctor and painful for the user.

332
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 1: She refused to offer shields to her patients, of course,

333
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,120
Speaker 1: a female doctor. Female doctor. Yeah, there's a fe male

334
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 1: doctor in here. But yeah, you suspect most of the

335
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,359
Speaker 1: first people to recognize it were the the lady O. B.

336
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,919
Speaker 1: G ns. Um. Now, those vicious spikes were not the

337
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,199
Speaker 1: worst part of the shield's design. Unfortunately, that would be

338
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 1: the string. So, like I said, most I e d

339
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,240
Speaker 1: s have a string attached to them makes it easier

340
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 1: to remove. Uh. The normally those strings are made out

341
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,840
Speaker 1: of a very particular kind of material that cannot transfer bacteria, right,

342
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 1: because the uterus is is sterile, right, and you want

343
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:49,360
Speaker 1: to keep use that material. No. Um, they use nylon um,

344
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,160
Speaker 1: which is like they use Yeah, they use nylon wrapped

345
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,639
Speaker 1: in a sheath that deteriorated inside the body. Uh. And

346
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,840
Speaker 1: the string was not at each end and so not sealed. Um.

347
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,520
Speaker 1: Irwin Learner, who was the Dalcon Company's president, thought that

348
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 1: the knot would be enough to keep bacteria from getting

349
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 1: into the string. Uh. And it was not. Uh. And

350
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,679
Speaker 1: you know there were Yeah, there were a lot of

351
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 1: people did a lot of people warned them that like

352
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,639
Speaker 1: this not like bacteria will get inside, it will travel

353
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 1: up the string into the uterus. And they said, that's

354
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,840
Speaker 1: never gonna happen. It's fine, it's fine. They'll never know.

355
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,440
Speaker 1: It's fine. We have to figure we'd have to change

356
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 1: the product, and that will cost money. By the time

357
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 1: they figured out, I'll have their money. It's all good,

358
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: all good now. One of the reasons Learner thought that

359
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 1: the shield he'd helped design was safe was the fact

360
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 1: that the uterus is again a sterile environment, which is

361
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 1: why so many people use uterus as to clean their kitchens. Unfortunately. Yeah,

362
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 1: of course, yeah, it's just the right tool for the job. Um. Yeah,

363
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 1: it gets nature's bleach to say it. So, the nylon

364
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 1: in the string was not sterile, as I said, and

365
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,719
Speaker 1: bacteria were able to enter through that unsealed knot and

366
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,879
Speaker 1: apple up from the vagina into the uterus, crawling up

367
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,199
Speaker 1: the dalkon shield strings like Rapunzel's hair ladder, and the

368
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 1: fact that there was actually a sheath around the string

369
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 1: protected the traveling bacteria from cervical mucus, which is normally

370
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 1: a barrier to bacteria. So that Planned Parenthood write up

371
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 1: I found described the string on the dalkon shield as

372
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 1: a bacterial expressway. In other words, they couldn't have designed

373
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,919
Speaker 1: a better device to transfer dangerous bacteria into the womb

374
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 1: if they had tried, Like it's made for that. It

375
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,479
Speaker 1: really upgraded themselves, Like watch this hole, my beer, virus,

376
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 1: this hole my beer. Yeah. No, we made you guys,

377
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 1: your own little road and it's just for women. We

378
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: love you so much. Yeah. Yeah. So one of the

379
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,199
Speaker 1: first publicized failures of the Dalkon shield came in nineteen

380
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 1: seventy three, when the device had already been inserted into

381
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 1: nearly two million women. Doctors with the University of Arizona

382
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 1: Medical Center inserted a shield into a patient who wound

383
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: up getting pregnant. Anyway, at this point in medical history, UM,

384
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 1: it was standard procedure to leave the I U D

385
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 1: in the uterus during a pregnancy. I think that's different now, um,

386
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: but that's the way things were at that point. Um.

387
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 1: And at this point, data was suggesting that that the

388
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,119
Speaker 1: Dalkon shields failure rate was closer to ten than to

389
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 1: five percent. Again, the company had not updated any of

390
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 1: their their marketing material. Now, unfortunately, this patient who got

391
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: pregnant on the shield, UM the bacteria highway thing in her.

392
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: The string introduced a bunch of deadly bacteria into her womb,

393
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: and she started presenting with flu like symptoms, and three

394
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,679
Speaker 1: days later she miscarried her nineteen week old fetus and

395
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: died from a massive bacterial infection. Uh. Yeah, So the

396
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 1: head of obstetrics at the medical center where that woman

397
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 1: died was a an O B G y N named

398
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: doctor Donald Christian Um. He began screaming as loud as

399
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: he could to anyone who would listen about the dangers

400
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 1: of the Dalkon shields. So we do have one good

401
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 1: male doctor and he was like, what the fuck this

402
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,199
Speaker 1: is like clearly a problem. Um, yeah, and he he

403
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: took this on as a crusade. He started talking to

404
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 1: guynetrologists and obstetricians around the country and gathering hundreds and

405
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: hundreds of stories of Dalkon shield users who had been

406
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: injured or killed by massive bacterial infections that started in

407
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 1: their uteruses. By the spring of nineteen seventy three, he

408
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: felt he had enough data to bring to the f D. A.

409
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: Christian's goal was to get them to suspend sales and

410
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: use of the Dalkon Shield until further research could be done.

411
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 1: But being history's greatest monsters and also a bunch of

412
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: cowards without the stones to assault my mountaintop compound, the

413
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: FDA waffled, enraged in dismay, Dr Christian wrote a book

414
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: length study into the shield titled Maternal Deaths associated with

415
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: an intra uter and Device. Um. He wasn't great at titling,

416
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: but he didn't he did. He did the work. Yeah,

417
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: His study focused on four deaths and six life threatening

418
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 1: infections suffered by shield users. Now. While he was working

419
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 1: on his manuscript, other doctors and women's health advocates grew

420
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: more and more aware of the Shields flaws. By nineteen

421
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: seventy four, seventeen deaths had been traced directly to the device,

422
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 1: and the actual number was probably significantly highly. I think

423
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 1: at least twenty four we know now, say how many

424
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: people like we're told this is not the reason, it's

425
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: because of your fault. You're never you did this wrong,

426
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: You did this your dirty and you got sick, which

427
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: is essentially what happens to women or of those who

428
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: have have uterus is in general gets sold. Is your fault,

429
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 1: you did this wrong. Sorry, yep, yep. So you have

430
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: to assume, like seventeen is the minimum that had died

431
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: at this point, and that's just hundreds and hundreds, potentially

432
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: even tens of thousands um with some level of serious

433
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: serious adverse effects like in a lot of cases like

434
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: if you're getting um pelvic inflammatory syndrome, like your bedridden

435
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: for weeks. Like this is the amount of human misery

436
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: that has been caused by nineteen seventy four is pretty astonishing. Um,

437
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: The estimate that I found is that for every million

438
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 1: dollars A H. Robbins, the pharmaceutical company, profited from selling

439
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,479
Speaker 1: the Dalkon shield, their customers spent an estimated twenty million

440
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: dollars on medical care due to the illness as it cost,

441
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 1: which is pretty pretty bad. It's just it's just kind

442
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: of like one more thing of like how little they

443
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: care about women's health, people with you to help, like

444
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 1: people in that general like gnecology. How little is actually

445
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: worried about and even to this day obviously, yeah, like

446
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: I think it's better, but not good now, I mean,

447
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, and I'm certainly not saying it's absolutely

448
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: better now. I won't know, but I haven't heard of

449
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: one quite this bad. Although maybe the Marina will wind

450
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: up being that bad, Like we don't really know at

451
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: this point. Tell me that although, yeah, Probert, why I

452
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: think people should look into that. There's something absolutely interesting

453
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: lawsuits happening now. I know a lot of people who

454
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: have them and have great, great experiences with them, but

455
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: it does concern me a bit. Um. Those numbers are

456
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: still astonishing, and things that are being figured out the best,

457
00:24:54,840 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: and this is just so blatantly horrible. Um, Like you're

458
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: talking by nineteen seventy four, when it's mostly still on

459
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: the market, tens of thousands of women have been hospitalized

460
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: because of their Dalkon shields. Like we're not talking about

461
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: oh yeah, you know one percent of people or whatever

462
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: are going to have a negative response, and that's a problem.

463
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: But it's like within like this is a a sizeable

464
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: chunk of the people who get the dal shield inserted

465
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: have health consequences as a result of it, right, because

466
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: we're not just talking about death, We're talking about all

467
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: of the problematic issues that coscarriages and topic pregnancies which

468
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: are nypermayors and for those who ye are wanting children

469
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 1: and lots of children, all of these things. It's just

470
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: such a heartbreaking thing. Well especially you have a lot

471
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: of women who wanted children, who got pregnant and then

472
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: or who wanted children at some point but didn't want

473
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: them now got the Dalkon shield and because of complications,

474
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: had their uteruses removed. Um yeah, it's just a real bummer.

475
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I'm gonna quote from Mother Jones again. The

476
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 1: Dalkon shield was turning out to be far more dangerous

477
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: than any other i u D already on the market.

478
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: Later research in Canada and Jerry Many show that microscopic

479
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: defects helped account for the shield's ability to slice into

480
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: the uterine wall. Physicians found insertion was difficult, patients sounded

481
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: almost unbearable. As early as February nineteen seventy one, a

482
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: physician wrote to Age Robbins in reference to the insertion

483
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: of the Dalkon shield. I have found the procedure to

484
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: be the most traumatic manipulation ever perpetrated on womanhood. And

485
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: I have inserted thousands of other varieties that would they

486
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: keep doing this? Like what because? Because not to stop?

487
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: It's like, quite well, we just kept pushing. It's fine,

488
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: They're fine. They screamed a little bit, Everything's fine. I

489
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: think these doctors are stopping. Like I think the doctors

490
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: who are complaining like do it a few times and

491
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: have a horror, realize that it's bad on everyone, and

492
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: then say like, well, I'm not going to do this anymore. Um.

493
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: But I'm wondering how many doctors just kept pushing and

494
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: be like suck it up, which, by the way, women

495
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: do here today about some procedures and being told you're

496
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: not really in pain. You're making the ship up. So

497
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: I can't imagine them when they're like, suck it up.

498
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: I think it's most doctors do that because you you

499
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: do have you do have good doctors like Christian, like

500
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: this person who wrote that letter in nineteen seventy one,

501
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: like the woman we heard from the lady ob Jua,

502
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: and we heard from earlier. Um, who try to blow

503
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: the whistle, who complain, who say this is unacceptable. But

504
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: I think the bulk of people inserting them are just like, yeah,

505
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: it hurts, Like what do you what do you want?

506
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 1: Like stop complaining? You know you all have sex. You

507
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: have to have pain to have sex, and then obvious

508
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: and then and then die in the operating table. Yeah,

509
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: but I wonder also for Dr Christensen, it took someone

510
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: to die before realizing how bad this was, right, Yeah.

511
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know what his direct experience because

512
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: he was the he was like the head of the

513
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,719
Speaker 1: unit at the hospital, so I don't know if he

514
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: was actually putting them in, if this was the first

515
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: time he maybe thought about it, Like I I don't

516
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: know enough about the guy's actual history. Um, I just

517
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: know that when when that happened, he went on the

518
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: war path. But I don't know, like maybe he was

519
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: putting it in for years before someone died. I really

520
00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: just I couldn't tell you many questions. So in of

521
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, the Planned Parenthood Federation of America banned

522
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: the Dalkon Shield from use in their clinics. They recommended

523
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: it be removed from patients who had had it inserted.

524
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 1: Even this came with harms to patients because the vicious

525
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: spikes in the Dalkon shields side had a tendency to

526
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: tear through soft tissue when yanked out. As deaths and

527
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: nightmare stories of injuries mounted, the FDA begged Age Robbins

528
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: to stop selling their Vaginal Death Crap, which is a

529
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: pretty good name for a band. I was going to say,

530
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: who's a boy vaginal? Yeah, solid metal band, Oh my god,

531
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: the songs, or maybe it's just an emo band. Yeah,

532
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: Dalkon Shield is not a bad band name either. You know,

533
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: I'm still holding it. That's a Star Trek weapon, Yeah, yeah,

534
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: I do think it's more of a Star Trek a

535
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: Star Trek ship. So the company refused to stop selling.

536
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: You know, they're horrible, horrible, poisoned i u D executives

537
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: worried that doing so would be seen as an admission

538
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: of guilt um and since tens of thousands of women

539
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: were suing them for injuries, it would be expensive to

540
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: admit guilt. So, because so many people are suing us,

541
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: we can't stop selling this because then they'll win their

542
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: cases against us for the injuries and we did to them, right,

543
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: So I assumed there would be a lot of lawsuits

544
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: and it would go so many, so many lawsuits. This

545
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: company gets sued like you would not believe, well, like

546
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: you would absolutely believe they're contempt for human life. Yeah.

547
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: So ah, Proven's lawyers took the text the shield was

548
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: no more dangerous than any other i U D. They

549
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: argued that all the pelvic inflammatory disease cases tied to

550
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: the shield had actually nothing to do with it. The

551
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: company spokesman Thomas Poe told press, they have their experts,

552
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: we have ours, which is a very capital something to say,

553
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: well we got experts. Bring my people who have no

554
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: degree in this, but they're gonna be really loud about it. Yeah.

555
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: It's that oil industry ship where it's like, yeah, well

556
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: we got scientists too, and we pay them to say

557
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: what the opposite of what you're saying, but louder. Despite

558
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: all of the US by the end of nineteen seventy four,

559
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: the Dalkon Shield was effectively off the market. They kind

560
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: of just quietly stopped selling it after a while. More

561
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: than two and a half million and well stopped selling

562
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: it in the US after a while. More on that later,

563
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: more than two and a half million American women had

564
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: the shields installed in their bodies. As many as two

565
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: hundred thousand people testified that they had been injured by

566
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: the Dalkon Shield and filed claims against Age Robbins. Some

567
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: set counts say four hundred thousand, like a huge amount

568
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: of the people who get this wind up with, like,

569
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: you know, legal complaints against Age H. Robbins. So the

570
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical giant would spend a full decade fighting these cases

571
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: tooth and nail, doing everything and its power to avoid

572
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: any kind of legal consequences for its actions. Numerous company

573
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: executives perjured themselves in court. Tens of thousands of pages

574
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: of internal documents were destroyed and direct violation with court orders.

575
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: FDA offices and Capitol Hill were flooded with AH Robbin's

576
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: lawyers just doing everything that they could to slow down

577
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: the process at which like they were mitigated because they

578
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: knew eventually litigation was going to mean the end of

579
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: the company and they wanted to suck as much value

580
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: out of it as they possibly couldn't put it in

581
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: the hands of their shareholders. Part of why they're delaying

582
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: this so much is because they're selling it to other

583
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: people outside the United States after they stopped the US. Yeah,

584
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: you gotta keep that ship going before your companies destroyed

585
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: by a river of lawsuits. That was no one was

586
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: dark and griffty. Oh it's about Sopha. You have no

587
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: idea how bad this is gonna get. It's gonna get

588
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: so much worse. Well before we get to so much worse, right,

589
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: you know what it is, right? Yeah, you know what

590
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: won't so vaginal death crabs. God, I hope not um

591
00:31:52,440 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: audible Lobster. Yeah, either way, we're back. And I'm thinking

592
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: about Red Lobster because of what you just said, because

593
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: they have a new Mountain dew Margarita, I really wanted

594
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: to go. I went to the nearest Red Lobster to me,

595
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: and it was across the river in Washington, and everyone

596
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: in the line outside didn't have a mask and it

597
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: was inside seating only. And I was like, no, that

598
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: seems I don't want to get COVID for this margarita.

599
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: Are you sure? Yeah? But really, I what about cheddar biscuits.

600
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: I've gotten a lot of diseases for cheddar biscuits in

601
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: the past, enough that I think I don't need that anymore.

602
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: I'm starting to question what you're worth, Like what what

603
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: we've all We've all gotten a little bit of a

604
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: little bit of what you think, like hepatitis whatever. It's fine, Like, yeah,

605
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: you're not gonna go to red lobster and not get

606
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: a disease. It's so bacon wrapt gallops that are kind

607
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: of cooked. They are kind of cooked, and they only

608
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: about a third of them have the haunt of virus.

609
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: So that's a pretty good ratio. I mean, have you

610
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: gone for shrimp thus come on, Oh yeah, no, you're

611
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: definitely getting the hunt of virus. Is shrimp fust absolutely anyway?

612
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: But man, them shrimps is cheap. That's so good. So

613
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: in the end, the law did come for H. Robbins.

614
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: In nine four, Judge Miles W. Lord ruled against the

615
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: company and in favor of its hundreds of thousands of victims. Again,

616
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: they're being sued in court by more than like a

617
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: quarter of a million people at this point, which is,

618
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: if that many people are suing you, you're in the wrong.

619
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: Like I don't even need to hear about the case.

620
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: So two fifty people are suing you, okay, but that's

621
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: all like five of the population. You should you shouldn't

622
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: be allowed in society anymore. Maybe it's fine. So um.

623
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: Some of those victims were in the courtroom while Judge

624
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: Lord read his his his judgment, and many of them

625
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: wept openly as he read this. To the companies top executives,

626
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: it is not enough to say I did not know.

627
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: It was not me, look elsewhere. Time and time again,

628
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: each of you has used this kind of argument in

629
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: refusing to acknowledge your responsibility and in pretending to the

630
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: world that the chief officers and the directors of your

631
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: gigantic multinational corporation have no responsibility for the company's acts

632
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: and omissions. Under your direction, your company has in fact

633
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: continued to allow women, tends of thousands of them, to

634
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: wear this device, a deadly depth charge in their wounds,

635
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: ready to explode at any time. This is corporate irresponsibility

636
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: at its meanest. Pretty good, many good band names in there.

637
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: Yeah they're Veginale. Uh Se. Conviction is today because I

638
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: feel like we do not hold obviously and I don't know,

639
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: you know, of all people, enough heads of corporations irresponsible

640
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: for these things, and they didn't then, like the company

641
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: was destroyed, which is good, better or than like what's

642
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 1: happening to Perdue, um, you know, for starting the opiate crisis?

643
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: But they didn't. None of these guys went to prison,

644
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: and they should have. Yeah, yeah, you put you put

645
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: twenty of these guys in prison. Maybe we didn't have

646
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: had an opiate crisis because maybe Perdue would have been like,

647
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: oh ship, there's still Age Robin guys doing time for

648
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: the vaginal depth charges. Like I don't know, I feel

649
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: like those are narcissists who really believe they're the ones

650
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: who get away with this, So it really doesn't matter.

651
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: Maybe I say we still give it a shot and

652
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: throw it. I'm not opposed to the don't get me wrong.

653
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: So um, now, the company was set up to start

654
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: a multimillion dollars and eventually think it was a multibillion

655
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 1: dollar program to remove the shields from women and pay

656
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: for them for their pain and injuries. Of the more

657
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 1: than four hundred thousand lawsuits filed against the company were

658
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: litigated or settled, and a lot of those were aggregating

659
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: like thousands of cases together obviously, because you get that

660
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: many people suing and you start like lumping them into

661
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: class actions and stuff. The company was forced to declare

662
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: bankruptcy in nineteen eighty five, and it collapsed under the

663
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 1: way of so many judgments. By six and estimated hundred

664
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: thousand American women still had Dalkon shields in their bodies.

665
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: Think that long. Yeah. Yeah. The catastrophic and extremely public

666
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: failure of the Dalkon shield nearly killed the i u

667
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: D itself. By nineteen eight six, only one brand of

668
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: iu D was still on the market in the United States.

669
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventies, nearly ten percent of US women

670
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: who used contraception used an i U D. Today that

671
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: number is less than one percent. It's around one percent.

672
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: And it's generally agreed that the main reason for the

673
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: collapse and popularity of the i U D was the

674
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: Dalkon shield that it created, Because obviously, like you hear

675
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: that story, like, you're not gonna get one of those,

676
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: you already get the horror story of the you know,

677
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 1: floating i u D, which does happen. Yeah. In European nations,

678
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: most of which never imported the shield i u D

679
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: s remained popular. In the U S still has the

680
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: lowest rate of i u D use of any Western nation,

681
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: according to the Gutmacher Institute quote. The public health need

682
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: for more whitespread use of the i u D is

683
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: revealed in one simple statistic. Fifty of unintended pregnancies in

684
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: the United States are the result of contraceptive failure or misuse.

685
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: Because the i u D is almost impossible to misuse

686
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: and is far less likely to fail from the pill,

687
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: the condom, or the injectable. A national increase in iu

688
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: D use that comes at the expense of such methods

689
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: would reduce the number of unintended pregnancies. If some women

690
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: choose the i u D instead of relying on natural

691
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: birth control methods or chance, the number of unintended pregnancies

692
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: should also decline. An industry sponsored survey of seven thousand

693
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: U S women conducted in n revealed that many current

694
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: i u D users had switched from the condom, the

695
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: pill or withdrawal. So again, pretty significant consequences to this.

696
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: Outside of the suffering of the people who have it

697
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: implanted in them, there's just there's god knows how many

698
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: millions at this point of unintended pregnancies have occurred as

699
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: a result of this thing. Um, you know which it's

700
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: it's It's just the amount of human shrapnel caused by

701
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: Age Robbins is pretty astonishing. And you add that to

702
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 1: the couple of dozen people we know died, the hundreds

703
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: of thousands of people who are injured and rendered fertile,

704
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: And yeah, Age Robbins in the Dalkon Company make a

705
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: pretty solid bastard. But we're actually just scraping the start

706
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: of this story, Samantha, don't barely gotten started. Yeah, between

707
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: the word slicing and scraping in this is a slicy

708
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: scraping thing. You said, Bacteria Expressway. Bacterial Expressway, which is

709
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: another good band name. This is a great episode for

710
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 1: that is a punk band. Oh yeah, Bacterial Expressway open

711
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 1: for uterine depth charge back. So um. The United States

712
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: Agency for International Development, or us AID exists to do

713
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: exactly what the name would suggests. Help other nations to develop. Now,

714
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 1: one of the ways in which nineteen seventies thinkers in

715
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: the government felt poor nations needed help developing was it

716
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: giving their populations access to contraceptives. And obviously this isn't

717
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: necessarily nefarious. It's great to get a lot of people

718
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: are poor the money for contraceptives given free contraceptives always

719
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: a good thing. I am supportive of people having access

720
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: to good birth control. Um not a problem, except it

721
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: becomes a problem because of the way that they do it.

722
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: So back in two horrifying stories of the Dalkon Shields,

723
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: Deadly Flaws had first started going public in a big way,

724
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: and it was immediately obvious. They didn't stop selling it

725
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: for two more years. But the people at H. Robbins

726
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: knew pretty much as soon as this thing got on

727
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: the market that it was going to get taken off

728
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: the market because it was hurting too many people. And

729
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: they didn't stop selling it in the US because of that,

730
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: God no, But they did immediately start looking at places

731
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: they could sell it overseas in order to make sure

732
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: that they had a long term way of making money

733
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 1: off of the Dalkon shield because they're good people. Yeah,

734
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: So yeah. Yeah. Obviously, they still kept pumping out as

735
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: many of these devices into the US market as possible,

736
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: but being forward thinking capitalists, they started looking further afield

737
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 1: for new markets from Mother Jones. With any other kind

738
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: of hazardous product, the manufacturer might at this point have

739
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: had to search out some sleazy broker to arrange a

740
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 1: secret dump. Not so with a contraceptive device. The Office

741
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: of Population within a I D had a budget of

742
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty five million dollars to spend on

743
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: the purchase and overseas distribution of contraceptives. Director RT. Ravenholt

744
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: was known to be a population control enthusiast who would

745
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: ask few questions about a good deal on Dalkon shields.

746
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: It was only natural for Robbins to turn to the government.

747
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: Robert W. Nichols, Robbins director of International Marketing, wrote to

748
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: the Population Office of a I D to interest them

749
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: in placing this fine product with the population control programs

750
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 1: and family planning clinics throughout the Third World. Nicholas sweeten

751
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: the deal with a special discount, which dramatically illustrates the

752
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: double standard drug companies apply to Third World consumers. The

753
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: company offered a I d the shield in bulk packages

754
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: unsterilized at forty eight percent off. So that's that's not

755
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: a good side. So the word population controls as a lot,

756
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: that's not a good side either. That's never never a

757
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: good sentence or a phrase to hear A b I

758
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: just love. It's like vaginal death crabs for everyone. How

759
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: to discommit price unsterilized. You're welcome, no problems, There's no problem, Paul,

760
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: have vaginal death crabs. Everyone. Also, this is going to

761
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: remain in your vagina for a long while, hanging in there,

762
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: hanging in If you try to root move it out,

763
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: it's going to rip you up like a fucking shrapnel

764
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: from a mortar. But it's okay because it's population control,

765
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,959
Speaker 1: because we've got to control that population of you kinds

766
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you did kind of

767
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: hit on the fact that population control enthusiast is a

768
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 1: terrifying thing to call someone. Um now that that actually

769
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: refers to a specific intellectual movement within the Western civilization

770
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: that goes back almost a hundred years. Um. See, so

771
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: I had this written a little bit differently, but I'm

772
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: just gonna go ahead and say, surprise, this is not

773
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: an episode about the Dalkon Shield. That was just the introduction.

774
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: This is an episode about the population control movement, and

775
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: I just kind of wanted to, like a Dalkon shield

776
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 1: like slide in secretly and then surprise you, m yeah,

777
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: and I wedged myself in there, and now we're going

778
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: to learn about there not going to be friends, Robert

779
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: friends after that. Sorry, I feel like I trade Samantha. Yes,

780
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: if I could flip this desk over in a dramatic way.

781
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: You know, we talked about the bacterial super Highway, and

782
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: now we're going to take a hard right turn onto

783
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: the eugenics super Highway, because that's what this episode is

784
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: secretly about. I just we also say that's an expressway.

785
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: Keep going, Oh yeah, maybe a tollway. Get shittier. So

786
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: the first concerted project to control world population started in

787
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds and four colonizer dominated nations the

788
00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: United States, mostly California, Australia, Canada, and South Africa. Now,

789
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 1: in California, Canada and Australia, white people were increasingly terrified

790
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: about the fact that Asian people were immigrating there and

791
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: having babies in California. Asian immigration had actually been stoked

792
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 1: by a US government policy. From the eighteen sixties, Washington

793
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: d c. Had heavily pressured China's imperial government to make

794
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: it easier for Chinese citizens to leave the country because

795
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,280
Speaker 1: we wanted workers and stuff. Um. The US actually argued

796
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: that Beijing was treading on their people's quote inherent and

797
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: an alienable right to change their home and allegiance by

798
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: stopping them from leaving the country. So keep that in mind.

799
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: The US government argued that restricting people from leaving China

800
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: for the US was a violation of their inherent and

801
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: inalienable right to change their home in allegiance. The only

802
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: time you'll hear that from the United States government had

803
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: left from well we know, well, yeah, because that's one

804
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: where it's like, I'm totally on board with the United States. There.

805
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: People do have an inherent right to change their home

806
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: in allegiance. Um, they don't stick with that for long.

807
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 1: From a Journey an article in the Journal of Past

808
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: and Present by the Oxford University Press quote, disgruntled workers

809
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: in California attacked Asian immigrants and in eighteen seventy seven

810
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: began political mobilization, much to the alarm of East coast elites.

811
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 1: Writing for The North American Review the following year, MJ

812
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: D sought to justify anti Chinese attacks. Migration was not

813
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: just another form of international trade, he insisted, and the

814
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,720
Speaker 1: frugal Chinese worker was not just another labor saving machine.

815
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: Migration was a biological process. Centuries of overpopulation in places

816
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: like India and China had produced people able to subsist

817
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: on wages that would starve Europeans. Facing such competition, Whites

818
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 1: would fail to reproduce. Dire consequences would therefore ensue should

819
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: they withdraw the intelligence of artificial selection from the environment

820
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 1: and leave the battle to the chances of natural selection.

821
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: So that's pretty racist, wow, I mean it's fitting with

822
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: the current administration, So go ahead. Yeah, I mean we're

823
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 1: really really a blast the past there. But yeah, that's

824
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: the argument there. That's why. So initially the government's like

825
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: forcing the Chinese government to let more people come here

826
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: because we need the workers. But then like white people,

827
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: I feel like they're getting undercut, and so pressure the

828
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 1: government to stop Chinese people from coming into the country.

829
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: Like that's the basic way that things go in the

830
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds, So that same year eighteen seventy seven

831
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: there started to come out because you know how the

832
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: way that like all culture really flows. This is one

833
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: of the things I say that a couple of times

834
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 1: that Andrew Breitbart got right, politics is downhill of culture. Right. Um,

835
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: So what hat starts happening in the culture in the

836
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds that leads to all of these like

837
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: Chinese exclusion acts and stuff. Is this flood of novels

838
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: and short stories that are like trying to warn white

839
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: people of an invasion of Europe in the United States. Um, Like,

840
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: that's this big thing that starts happening in the media

841
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: right now. So you've got like this mix of like,

842
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: you know, people who were I guess their modern equivalent

843
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 1: be the guys writing for The Atlantic, you know, um

844
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: like Connor Friedersdorff and the Then you know people like

845
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: Steve Bannon like writing like racist fiction about how Chinese

846
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: people are going to Uh it's it's white genocide ship right,

847
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: Like it's it's always been the same fear are you

848
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 1: talking about today? Right? Yeah? Yeah, it's it's it's changed, right, Okay, okay, yeah. Quote,

849
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: Chinese were depicted not as nationals of a particular country,

850
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: but as a hoard or flood, a force of nature.

851
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: This image also featured in European journalistic and fictional accounts

852
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: of migration. The German geographer Friedrich Retzel, perhaps the first

853
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: European to draw attention to the Chinese question in California,

854
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: would go on to popularize the notion of Levin's realm.

855
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: Do you know what that? You get? You guys? You

856
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: guys know Levian's realm? Right? Everybody remembers that from high school? Yeah,

857
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: I did not realize that's where that concept had started.

858
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: Pretty good, waiting for the big Yeah, I'm one of

859
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,959
Speaker 1: the big finale. Let's keep going. Yeah, yeah, that's coming.

860
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: We gotta build up a bit. So obviously, the term

861
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: lead in round was one of Hitler's chief talking points.

862
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: The literal meaning of the term is living space. Hitler

863
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: pointed to the US, which had genocided its way into

864
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: possession of a vas continent and argued that Germany deserves

865
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: that kind of space too. But the actual term Leban's

866
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 1: round had originated in California from these Europeans and like

867
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: American white people who were seeing Chinese people immigrant and

868
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: being like they're crowding us out. Like that's actually where

869
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: it started. Um Historian Matthew Connolly notes it suggested the

870
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: word Leban's round suggested that biological processes of growth and

871
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: movement underlay politics and were more fundamental than mere political borders.

872
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,959
Speaker 1: So Leban's round wasn't just a matter of physical space.

873
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 1: In fact, it wasn't mostly a matter of physical space,

874
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: because California is still empty today. Most of California, nobody

875
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: fucking lives in, like as big as Los Angeles is,

876
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's a huge land mass, so it's

877
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: like the whole continent. Like these these people who started

878
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: using this term weren't actually short on space. Um, living

879
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: space meant more directly physical and course not not physical,

880
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: but philosophical space for white people and white culture and

881
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 1: white jeans to spread. That's really what Yeah, exactly, exactly

882
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: exactly yeah. So yeah. On a ground level, anti Asian

883
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: sentiment in this period was driven by working class white

884
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,839
Speaker 1: people who were angry that Chinese immigrants were undercutting their

885
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 1: wages and taking jobs. But on the loftier philosophical level,

886
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: that politics kind of flows downstream from it was a

887
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: question of the survival of the white race. Now then

888
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 1: is now white supremacist ideologues were happy to take advantage

889
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: of poor white resentment over economic trouble and turned this

890
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: into a boiling race hatred. In eighty five, all this

891
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: race baiting boiled over into a series of mass expulsions

892
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: of Chinese immigrants all across the West Coast. Further inland,

893
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: there were even murders and straight up massacres. There were

894
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: ethnic cleansings in California of of of Chinese communities. Um

895
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: White supremacist writers defended the killers, describing their actions as

896
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: an example of workers expressing their citizenship. The expulsions and

897
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: the violence were positively compared to anti Jewish programs in Europe,

898
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,240
Speaker 1: as both Jews and Chinese immigrants were depicted by racists

899
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: as quote disease carrying cosmopolitans who excelled in economic competition.

900
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: It was the same basic thing you know that you

901
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: saw happening with anti Semitism. I'm not gonna lie, it's

902
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: just kind of like, are we doing this again today?

903
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: Except yeah, like Chinese immigrants is like this is too

904
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: familiar in a way we never stopped. Uh yeah, I

905
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: mean I think the focus is, yeah, the threat of

906
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: white hierarchy, whether or not they're going to be decimated.

907
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 1: No longer exists as if that could possibly happen, especially

908
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: in the next generation or so. But interesting, there were

909
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: actually well, and it's it's this matter of like the

910
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: fuel for the movement comes from poor white workers who

911
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: are getting edged out of jobs by people being paid

912
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: less than them. But the problem isn't the people being

913
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: paid less than them. The problem is, for example, the

914
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: fact that there's all sorts of holes in our labor

915
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: market whereby certain types of people who are not documented

916
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: citizens can be treat did subhumanly by companies without any consequence,

917
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 1: and it's just cheaper for them to not treat people

918
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,919
Speaker 1: or pay them properly, right yep. And companies like State

919
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: Farm who love to advocate for special cards for immigrations

920
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: who don't have citizenship rights but can be underpaid, paid

921
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: taxes and no longer be recognized as individuals. Hey, it's great,

922
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: it's good, it's a fine. Yeah, it's fine, everything's fine. Yeah,

923
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: it's on fire. Yeah, I mean I wish everything we're

924
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 1: on fire. Sometimes do do you do? You know what?

925
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: What what is most likely not on fire? This is

926
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: my worst, my worst way, you know what? I wouldn't

927
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: set on fire. Samantha. There we go the products and

928
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: services that support this podcast. That would be biting the

929
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 1: dog that feeds me. I really wish we could transition

930
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 1: like that. All you gotta do is believe in yourself,

931
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: like we're bad. So we're talking about racism, so new

932
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: legal it's always and individuals and you know, different racial people.

933
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: Let's go population. I love is a melting pot, as in, yeah, no,

934
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 1: I won't make a cannibals. Yeah. New legal barriers were

935
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: added to Chinese immigration by the same government that had literally,

936
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: like a decade earlier, lobby the Chinese government about the

937
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: inherent freedom of human beings to change their face place

938
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: of residence. That ship switches around real damn fast. Chinese

939
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 1: migrants had to develop new ways of faking their identity

940
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: paperwork in order to gain entrance into the United States. Meanwhile,

941
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: immigration officials developed an ever more sophisticated and invasive system

942
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: of tracking people, which Matthew Connolly, who's a great historian,

943
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: describes as a prerequisite for modern systems of population control.

944
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: So all of this human monitoring ship that we deal

945
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: with today really does start in order to stop Chinese

946
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: people from immigrating to the United States. The whole infrastructure that,

947
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: like ice is the is the current manifestation of begins here,

948
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: which is great just somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. So, by nineteen

949
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 1: o eight, America's top racist president, Theodore Roosevelt, was calling

950
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: openly for Asian immigrants to be banned from entering not

951
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: just the United States, but all English speaking nations. To

952
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 1: say that about Teddy enough, Yeah, we're just talking about

953
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 1: the parks he made. But no, yeah, he tried to

954
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: ban every Asian person from English speaking nations. Pretty cool. Uh,

955
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: And you know this is not just a US is

956
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 1: bad thing because elected leaders in Canada and Australia expressed

957
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: significant solidarity with Roosevelt's idea. White folks everywhere, Yeah, good

958
00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: on the solidarity bodies. Yeah, that's my favorite rom com.

959
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: Let's go Yeah. White people everywhere cheered when Roosevelt dispatched

960
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 1: the White Fleet to the Pacific. Now, the White Fleet

961
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: was a U. S. Navy squadron named for the color

962
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:10,919
Speaker 1: of the holes on its ships, not for the white race,

963
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: but kind of for the white race, um, and it

964
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: was dispatched for the most part as an international goodwill exercise.

965
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 1: Like the United States was starting to become a world

966
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: power at this point. We built this big, modern fleet.

967
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 1: Roosevelt wanted to sail it around the world and have

968
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: it stopped in like twenty or thirty countries and you know,

969
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 1: do diplomatic visits and just be like, hey, the US

970
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: is here. We're gonna be in the Pacific more like

971
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,439
Speaker 1: we're a real country. Like check out how cool we are,

972
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: which is you know, I guess fine broadly speaking, Um,

973
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: and most of those trips were very pleasant, you know,

974
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: the US expressing gets good will and desire to trade

975
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 1: with everybody. We were not a world military power at

976
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: this point. We weren't an invade people all that. I mean,

977
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: the Spanish American war accepted had not done a huge

978
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: amount of that is not nearly as much as we

979
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: would do at this point. So it was mostly about trading,

980
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: except for when it got to Japan. Um, because Roosevelt

981
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: had sent it to Japan too, threatened the Japanese government

982
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: to stop them from sending Japanese or letting Japanese people

983
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: come over to the United States. Um, yeah, it's it's

984
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: pretty bad. Um have a special white cloak they are, Yeah,

985
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: I mean why not? Yeah, Yeah, it is a little

986
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 1: on the nose that name, especially since when Roosevelt ordered

987
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 1: them to intimidate the Japanese government, he specifically said that

988
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: they were there to protect white civilization. Um. Yeah, it's

989
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: a big reason for this was that the Empire of

990
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: the Rising Sun had just beaten Russia in a war

991
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: in like nineteen o five, which is the first time

992
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: that an Asian power beat a European power in a

993
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,919
Speaker 1: modern conflict. Like the Russian like north fleet sailed into

994
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: the area around like the coast of China where the

995
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 1: Japanese were, and they this huge like they just got

996
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: massacred by the Japanese navy, um, which like absolutely shocked

997
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 1: the hell out of every anybody in Europe at the time,

998
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: because like this is like colonialisms at its height at

999
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: this point. They are not used to having to like

1000
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: have any sort of conflict that's a real fight with

1001
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: anyone who's not a white person, and it really scares

1002
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,720
Speaker 1: the hell out of racists, um, which the Japanese Empire

1003
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: was too at this point. Like it's like we're talking

1004
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: about good are terrible? Yeah, talked to the Okinawans about that, Yeah, Yeah,

1005
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: I mean it was two imperial powers going to war

1006
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: with each other, and then another imperial power threatening that

1007
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 1: imperial power to not let everybody's bad. It's nineteen you know,

1008
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, definitely not heroes. Yeah, so um yeah.

1009
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: The fleet was met with protests in Japan, most of

1010
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: which were inspired by the fact that California had just

1011
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: passed a law segregating Japanese children out of white schools,

1012
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 1: Which is interesting because if you look at like that,

1013
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:55,919
Speaker 1: you can find maps online that will show like which

1014
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: states had segregation which didn't, and California is always listed

1015
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 1: as a state that didn't have segregation. But Japanese and

1016
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: I think a number of other Asian people were segregated

1017
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 1: out of white schools in California. So it's not true

1018
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: that that California had no segregation. It's not surprising. Yeah, no,

1019
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 1: absolutely not. I mean, the the the guy who was

1020
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: the first Supreme Court justice in Oregon who passed the

1021
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: Lash law saying that like black people had to be

1022
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: whipped if they didn't leave Oregon became the first governor

1023
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: of California, and one of the first things he did

1024
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 1: as governor of California was trying to kick all the

1025
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 1: Chinese people out of California. Um, so, yeah, it's pretty bad.

1026
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: It's pretty bad all the way down. Yeah. Yeah. History.

1027
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah it's fun. You get to learn new ways about

1028
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 1: how people sucked. Well yeah, that's about yeah what I

1029
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,919
Speaker 1: feel like, the way people suck. Yeah, it's they never

1030
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: stopped finding ways to suck. It's remarkable. By this point,

1031
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: American intellectuals largely agreed that regulation of the quote composition

1032
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: of of immigration was necessary to safeguard the fertility and

1033
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: thus the supremacy of native stocks meaning white people. I'm

1034
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: gonna quote now from the Journal of Pasty Native Yeah. Yeah,

1035
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: I know, it's pretty wild, right, like my dudes, my dudes.

1036
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 1: That got me, That got yeah. Quote. In the United States,

1037
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: the Immigration Bureau one congressional approval for collecting statistics according

1038
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: to a list of races and people's rather than country

1039
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: of origin. This became a tool to prove the inferiority

1040
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: of racial groups and a model for like minded French

1041
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 1: officials in Canada, Australia, and several European states as well.

1042
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: Italians came to be known as the Chinese of Europe.

1043
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: Is happening? I love juxtaposition of this whole conversation. Keep

1044
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: going as an Italian descended person, I always love getting

1045
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: those like little glimpses of racism against Italians because at

1046
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: this point it's just it's just like like a little

1047
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: bit like funny. But yeah that at the time they

1048
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, they were the Chinese of Europe. Um.

1049
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's how you know, by

1050
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: the way, you're really racist when you start making gradients

1051
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: of white people, when you're like, oh, Hungarians. Right. So

1052
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: the category of people's requiring containment thus grew beyond Asians,

1053
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: defind not by nationality so much as by biology, that is,

1054
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: their supposed capacity to propagate on wages that would lower

1055
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: other people's living standards and fertility. Though Roosevelt failed to

1056
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 1: coordinate exclusionary measures, researchers and activists saw them as the

1057
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: beginning of a de facto policy of global population control.

1058
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: In nineteen twelve, the sociologist Edward All'sworth Ross, from whom

1059
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: Roosevelt had borrowed the idea of race suicide, which is

1060
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: again the genesis of white of the white genocide myth.

1061
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 1: That was the first term before white genocide, because genocide

1062
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: didn't really exist as a term at this point. Um

1063
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: it was race suicide. That was the thing that all

1064
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: of these guys like Ross were warning people of. That's

1065
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: what Zvelt believe, the white races committing suicide by letting

1066
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: Chinese people, in Italian people into our country. Yeah, talk

1067
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 1: about dramatic. Yeah, Like these guys are all fucking traumas. Absolutely. Yeah.

1068
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,439
Speaker 1: Ross argued that Northern European nations had to hold fast

1069
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 1: to every settlement colony and fill them with their offspring

1070
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: or else see them filled with the children of the

1071
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: brown and the Yellow races. He predicted that the world

1072
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 1: will be cut up with immigration barriers, which will never

1073
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 1: be leveled until the intelligent accommodation of numbers and resources

1074
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 1: has greatly equalized population pressure around the globe. I'm gonna

1075
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 1: need you to read everything in that accident from now on. Yeah.

1076
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: If any of this is sounding a bit Nazi adjacent,

1077
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: that's because it was the beginning. Yeah. Yeah, all of

1078
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: this ship had a huge impact of Adolf Hitler and

1079
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: other Nazi fingers. It was an American, like we just

1080
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 1: talked about how it was, it was a European living

1081
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: in California who came up with the term Leban's round

1082
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 1: to talk about white people being overwhelmed by Chinese people. Um.

1083
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: It was an American named Prescott Hall of the Immigration

1084
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: Restriction League who first started describing Asian immigrants to the

1085
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 1: US as bacterial infections, which is both interesting what we're

1086
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: talking about definitely, like I don't think you can be

1087
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: a Prescott not a racist, Like if it's just it's

1088
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: a law, it has to be. Yeah, the world would

1089
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: break if that weren't the case. So barely twenty years

1090
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 1: after Prescott defined Chinese immigrants bacterial infections, Hitler would refer

1091
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 1: to Jews as plague bacillus in a clear imitation of this. Right, Like,

1092
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 1: the terminology that that people like Prescott are using for

1093
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: Asian immigrants is almost identical to the terminology Hitler is

1094
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 1: using for Jewish people. And a lot of those Jewish

1095
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 1: people are immigrants. A lot of the people who he

1096
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: was like ranting about were immigrants from Russia, like Jewish

1097
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: communities in Russia who had fled from the Civil War

1098
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: into Germany, which was proved not to be a great idea.

1099
01:00:57,680 --> 01:00:59,959
Speaker 1: Although if you were a Jewish person in Eastern Europe

1100
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: in the early half of the nineteenth century or twentieth century,

1101
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 1: really no good options, you're kind of no matter what happens,

1102
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 1: get to the UK if you can, but you still

1103
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 1: might wind up in a concentration camp, which happened to

1104
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: thousands of Jewish people in the US. We don't talk

1105
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: about that that much either, um so, uh yeah. Hall

1106
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 1: argued for world eugenics in which fit and unfit in

1107
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: terms of individual people in races, would be primary categories

1108
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: the government would use to determine who could immigrate. Hall,

1109
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 1: in many others like him, who very much dominated immigration

1110
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: policy in this period, saw the state as in Connolly's words,

1111
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 1: merely a mechanism for controlling biological processes, whether through promoting

1112
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 1: the propagation of the fit or excluding and sterilizing the unfit. Remember,

1113
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: that's what the people running the United States government in

1114
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: the early part of the twentieth century, and particularly immigration,

1115
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: but all throughout the government see the US government as

1116
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 1: a mechanism for cot rolling biological processes, promoting the propagation

1117
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: of the fit and excluding or sterilizing the unfit. That's

1118
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 1: what the government does. Are talking about Miller, Yeah, yeah,

1119
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: we are talking about Stephen Miller, because he's he very

1120
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,919
Speaker 1: much sees things that exact same way I'm just ding,

1121
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:21,439
Speaker 1: even though he pretends his little Asian wife. But yeah,

1122
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: certain racists have admitted Asians into the pantheon of white people.

1123
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: Now it's yeah, as long as like you're the right

1124
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 1: kind of Asian, you know. Yeah, that's I think Stephen

1125
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 1: Miller's I'm gonna get myself in trouble keep doing so.

1126
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: Um Now, I'm going to guess most people are broadly

1127
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 1: familiar with eugenics movement in the United States. We'll do

1128
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 1: a deep dive on that at some point. What's important

1129
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 1: to talk about the day is how the eugenics movement

1130
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: splintered off into the population control movement. Remember we heard

1131
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 1: that term a bit earlier when we're talking about that

1132
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: guy Ravenholt from USA. It was a population control enthusiast.

1133
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 1: All of this is trying to explain where population control

1134
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: comes from, because it's actually like a distinct like like

1135
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 1: like school of intellectual thought, very racist school of intellectual

1136
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: Thought's school school of intellectual thought. Um, So, what we're

1137
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: going to talk about today is how the eugenics movement, yes,

1138
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: splintered off into the population control movement, which wound up

1139
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 1: directing US AID policy until the nineteen eighties and beyond.

1140
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: The process started when eugenicists realized that they had the

1141
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: most success in pushing their policies when they could find

1142
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 1: ways to make them appeal to the masses. Naked racism

1143
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: did not appeal to the masses, because while most Americans

1144
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 1: were racist, they didn't like to think of themselves as racists. Right.

1145
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: That's always been the key of racism in America is

1146
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 1: saying you're not a racist. That's why you know a

1147
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 1: lot of people right now, I just Trump, yeahs, I

1148
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: have a friend of Yeah. There's a reason Enrique Tario

1149
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: was the head of the Proud Boys, you know, right. Yeah.

1150
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 1: So instead of just nakedly appealing to racism, um eugenics

1151
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 1: advocates realized that they had more success when they appealed

1152
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: to improving maternal and child health and restricting immigration in

1153
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: order to protect jobs. Eugenicists could still push racist eugenic policies,

1154
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 1: but they wrapped them in a veil of concern for

1155
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: human welfare. In the wake of World War One, increasing

1156
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: numbers of white supremacist academics began ringing alarm bells about overpopulation,

1157
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: and this starts to become after World War One this

1158
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 1: is like really what the population control movement focuses on, Like, uh,

1159
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: we can't talk about sterilizing whole races. Americans don't like that.

1160
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 1: That's a little bit too naked. When you talk about genocide,

1161
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: Americans are like, well, I don't really like I don't

1162
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 1: I'm racist, but I don't really like to think of

1163
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: myself as pro genocide, right, I mean, I'm come on,

1164
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 1: pro I'm pro live. We can't say that, so instead

1165
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 1: you say, no, we just we overpopulation is bad. We've

1166
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 1: got to stop over population, and then you start pushing

1167
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:53,479
Speaker 1: exactly from Connolly quote. The Cambridge economist Harold Wright called

1168
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 1: for a world policy in regard to population problems, but

1169
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 1: worried that national rivalries were leading in precisely the opposite direction.

1170
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,439
Speaker 1: The influential demographer A. M. Car Saunders thought that war

1171
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: would inevitably result from differential growth rates among nations and

1172
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: races unless declining populations were provided with some form of

1173
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 1: international guarantee. Similarly, the former MP and editor of the

1174
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: Edinburgh Review Harold Cox thought that low fertility nations needed

1175
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 1: to band together to defend themselves against any race that

1176
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 1: by it's too great fecundity is threatening the peace of

1177
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 1: the world. The psychologist and future leader of the International

1178
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: Planned Parenthood Federation CP Blacker worried that Asia and Russia

1179
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 1: might become a solid block determined to shake off the

1180
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 1: yoke of the Western powers end of America. Birth control

1181
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 1: offered the only way to avoid a second World War,

1182
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: this time between East and West. But this required that

1183
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:48,439
Speaker 1: every culture accepted like the whole block, just the block. Yeah,

1184
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: And of course Russians aren't white in this period either,

1185
01:05:54,520 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 1: not white enough, you know. Um. Yeah, when you start

1186
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:03,920
Speaker 1: to study white racism in this period, you realize that,

1187
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: like from the late eighteen hundreds of the early nineteen hundreds,

1188
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: there were about eleven actual white people on the planet.

1189
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: It's just a really fancy club. You have to be really,

1190
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 1: really really perfectly fit, right, Yeah, yeah, because you lose

1191
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: your whiteness if you're poor and until they need your

1192
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 1: help to like hurt other people, then you get to

1193
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 1: be white again. Yeah, as long as you have to

1194
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: be at the front of yea, possibly being hurt first. Yeah. Well, yeah,

1195
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: they're not gonna be expendable. Its expendable people, of course

1196
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 1: you do. Why not? Yeah, you have to go invade

1197
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 1: Stalin grad Yeah, nicely so. Biologist Raymond Pearl addressed the

1198
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: International Eugenics Congress, projecting our thought ahead for a moment

1199
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 1: to that time, at most a few centuries ahead. We

1200
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: perceived that the important question will then be what kind

1201
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: of people are they to be? Who will then inherit

1202
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 1: the earth? Here into is the eugenic phase of the problem.

1203
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 1: Man in theory at least has it now completely in

1204
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: his power to determine what kind of people will make

1205
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 1: up the Earth's population of saturation. This is the way

1206
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 1: these guys are thinking, is that, like we, this tiny

1207
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 1: group of the very widest, richest people in Europe can

1208
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: determine what the entire population of the world will look

1209
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: like in the future by controlling eugenics. That's the goal, right,

1210
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: Obviously pretty cool stuff. Pearl said that it was pointless

1211
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,360
Speaker 1: for eugenesis to go about their old tactics of urging

1212
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 1: the fitter classes of people to have more children as

1213
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 1: some sort of transcendental social duty. He also told them

1214
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 1: that simply targeting the obviously unfit would mean that meaning

1215
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 1: the disabled for sterilization was not a good tactic. Instead,

1216
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 1: the poor and unfit had to be stopped in mass

1217
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: from increasing their numbers. One of Pearl's strongest allies in

1218
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 1: this would be a woman named Margaret Singer. Margaret is

1219
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: the woman who popularized the term birth control. She went

1220
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: on to found the organizations that would eventually become the

1221
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 1: Planned Parenthood Federation of America, and as it happened, her

1222
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: advocacy would, years after her death, help spread millions of

1223
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 1: on millions of unsterilized alcon shields to uterus is all

1224
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: over the global South. And we will talk more about

1225
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: that in part two. It will be fun. How are

1226
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 1: you doing? How you doing, Samantha. I'm I'm digging all

1227
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 1: of this in. I'm just first of all, all of

1228
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 1: the different names and there is that I have I

1229
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: get to I get that note. I mean like I

1230
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 1: get to use as my band names and or screen

1231
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 1: names somewhere. That's definitely gonna be happening soon. Uh. I'm

1232
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying every bit of this level of building up

1233
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: of what hierarchy and supremacy is. It's quite delightful this

1234
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: little chain as a little uh adventure maze that you

1235
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 1: put me on. I am glad to hear that we

1236
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:46,679
Speaker 1: seek to please heat people here in our horrible stories

1237
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 1: of genocide and forced hysterectomys as one of the brown

1238
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 1: yellow people who may be infesting the nation's Uh, I

1239
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 1: will tell you I have been one that have been

1240
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: inundated and not breeding. You're welcome. I guess I'll tell

1241
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: Raymond Pearl that when he stops having been dead for

1242
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:11,640
Speaker 1: half a century. I mean, you know, I want to

1243
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 1: give somebody some satisfaction and enjoy in their life. That's

1244
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 1: how I did it. You're welcome. Uh. God, Yeah, it's weird.

1245
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: There's like this is this is a tough one because

1246
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: like a lot of the history we're talking about is

1247
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:30,400
Speaker 1: misinterpreted by anti birth control advocates, by like like hardcore

1248
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 1: Catholic and Christian advocates. You just think that like like

1249
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 1: who want to demonize plant parenthood, and they're wrong actually

1250
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 1: about what's bad Like Margaret Sayinger, there's a lot that's

1251
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:40,640
Speaker 1: sucked up about her. They always lie about her, like

1252
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 1: and say stuff that she didn't actually say in order

1253
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 1: to condemn her with their stuff. She said. It's just

1254
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 1: a different kind of bad um. And the reason they

1255
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 1: don't say the bad stuff she actually did is that

1256
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: it's very similar to the bad stuff they say, right, yeah,

1257
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:56,919
Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of the whole like beginning of everything,

1258
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,800
Speaker 1: whether there's the suffragette movement and how racist and fucked

1259
01:09:59,880 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 1: up the whole community was from get go. But they

1260
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: did do some good work, and you have to sit back, yeah,

1261
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 1: taking back through like, Okay, how awful is this and

1262
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:11,960
Speaker 1: how do we need to correct it? It's kind of

1263
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:15,440
Speaker 1: like it's a it's a constant change in trying to

1264
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 1: justify I guess I don't even know the word justified,

1265
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 1: but trying to look back at how awful people were

1266
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 1: in history, historical contacts on who they were and what

1267
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 1: it was, but trying to also say, yeah, I guess

1268
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 1: they did do some good things too. You have to

1269
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: be fair without whitewashing. So like the you know, with

1270
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: with the abolitionist movement, you have to point out like

1271
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 1: these people were on the right side of history. It

1272
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,240
Speaker 1: was a critical fight and a heroic fight, and it's

1273
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:44,680
Speaker 1: good that they did it. Also, a huge chunk of

1274
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: them were abolitionists because they didn't want black people anywhere

1275
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 1: near them, right, Like, that's that, and that doesn't mean

1276
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 1: that it wasn't good that they were abolitionists. It just

1277
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: means that, like, let's be honest about what they were

1278
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: and like, it's same thing with the suffragettes. A lot

1279
01:10:57,240 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: of the absolutely we're fighting on the side of his

1280
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,760
Speaker 1: story and like doing the right thing, and it's good

1281
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 1: that they were there. A ton of them were racist

1282
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:06,680
Speaker 1: as hell, you know, just see Harriet Tubman's Ain't I

1283
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:10,800
Speaker 1: a woman's speech? Right, Like it's yeah, And that's the

1284
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 1: same thing with the abolition is it's not that they

1285
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 1: didn't do a good thing. Is literally they just didn't

1286
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 1: like people. But then yea, well, it's like you you

1287
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:23,599
Speaker 1: go back to the civil rights movement and a number

1288
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 1: of like the black men who were like prominent the

1289
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: civil rights movement, we're very misogynists and like that. People

1290
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 1: people are not never perfect or even all that great usually,

1291
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 1: but it doesn't like what matters is, you know, the

1292
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:38,799
Speaker 1: broad sweep of what they attempted to accomplish. You can't

1293
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:41,639
Speaker 1: expect people to be perfect as long as they're fighting

1294
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 1: to make the world better. No one's going to make

1295
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:46,840
Speaker 1: the world perfect, and nobody is perfect and like, and

1296
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: we definitely need to make sure you know the truth

1297
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 1: of it all before we ideal idealized people in any list.

1298
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 1: But as a rule, don't make statues of people. I

1299
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 1: am never going to sit in a fetal position and

1300
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 1: making sure no one comes near my vaginant with a

1301
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:05,439
Speaker 1: what was it a vagina? Is it a vaginal death crap? Yeah?

1302
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 1: Or a uterine depth charge? Both? Again? Great band names,

1303
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 1: best bed named ever, Samantha, You got any plugg doubles

1304
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 1: to plug before we roll out apart one? Well, if

1305
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:23,960
Speaker 1: you guys want to find me on social media, I

1306
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 1: am under McVeigh Samantha on Twitter. Are Sam McVeigh at Instagram.

1307
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: You can see the pictures of my dogs because that's

1308
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 1: pretty much the only thing that hangs out with me

1309
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:35,760
Speaker 1: now since we're in quarantine and never will leave. Or

1310
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 1: you can check me out on Stuff I've Never Told You,

1311
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:40,639
Speaker 1: which is an intersectional feminist podcast, So if you're afraid

1312
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 1: of that, you probably will like it. But with heart.

1313
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:51,040
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, check out Stuff Mom Never Told You on iHeart.

1314
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 1: Check out Samantha on the interweb net dot com. Send

1315
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 1: her your favorite band names, um, send me your favorite

1316
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 1: band names. Start a band, uh and come back on

1317
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:07,639
Speaker 1: Thursday to hear more about the population control movement Margaret

1318
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 1: Sanger And finally, the conclusion of our horrible story about

1319
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 1: the Dalcock shield um. All that and more coming up