WEBVTT - With Omicron Continuing to Spread, Some Doctors Say Cloth Masks May Not Be Enough

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<v Speaker 1>It's Tuesday, January four. I'm Oscar Ramiors from the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>COVID cases continue to rise in the US as the

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<v Speaker 1>omicron variant proves to be highly transmissible. The rise and

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<v Speaker 1>infections has reignited the conversation over masks, which now has

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<v Speaker 1>some doctors and healthcare systems saying cloth masks may not

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<v Speaker 1>be enough, recommending that you pair them with surgical masks

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<v Speaker 1>or upgrade to other options like K and nine masks.

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<v Speaker 1>Nitty super Roman, science reporter at the Wall Street Journal

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<v Speaker 1>joins us for What to Know. Thanks for joining us, Nitty, Hi,

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to talk about some new developments with what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on with COVID nineteen Right now, the O macron

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<v Speaker 1>variant has proven to be very transmissible. We're seeing cases

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<v Speaker 1>sore to new records all over the United States. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>hospitalizations is a key thing to pay attention when we

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<v Speaker 1>talk about it, because those are the worst cases. Though

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<v Speaker 1>that those are the most troubling ones. But even those

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<v Speaker 1>numbers have gone up. I know it's a numbers game

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<v Speaker 1>with a lot of it. Doctors and health experts starting

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<v Speaker 1>to say, you know, bring masks up in the conversation again.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know that's a very contentious issue. A lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people don't want to wear them things like that,

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<v Speaker 1>But we're starting to see health experts say that cloth

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<v Speaker 1>masks might not be enough. We might need to step

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<v Speaker 1>up either double mask or get those K and K

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<v Speaker 1>and really step up our game that way. So Niitty,

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<v Speaker 1>tell us a little bit more about it. So we've

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<v Speaker 1>seen masks come back up and conversation chiefly, I think,

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<v Speaker 1>as you pointed out, because experts are watered about how

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<v Speaker 1>consmissible micron is among people who are not vaccinated, but

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<v Speaker 1>also even among people who are. So though we know

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<v Speaker 1>that vaccines are you know, a top form of checking

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<v Speaker 1>the virus either from getting sick. Uh. Seriously, people are

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<v Speaker 1>looking to other aspects of defenses against the virus, like masks,

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<v Speaker 1>in order to stop this more transmissible variant to the

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<v Speaker 1>extent that we can. Yeah, And you know, we're seeing

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<v Speaker 1>the response already come from companies and other places. For example,

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<v Speaker 1>my wife, she works in an office. They were supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to go back to work this week after the holiday break.

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<v Speaker 1>They sent an email out saying, nobody's coming back. We're

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<v Speaker 1>working from home this week and now the only acceptable

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<v Speaker 1>mask to wear in the office are the K and

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<v Speaker 1>K which they provide them and all. But still they're

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<v Speaker 1>they're setting those limits already, saying that you know, this

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<v Speaker 1>is the only thing you can wear for now. That's

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<v Speaker 1>really interesting. We've heard from doctors who are recommending that

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<v Speaker 1>people switch over to a stronger version of the mask

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<v Speaker 1>beyond just a cloth mask. I think since the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>of the pandemic, there has generally been an accepted understanding

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<v Speaker 1>among experts that the more sophisticated masks offer better protection,

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<v Speaker 1>but that any kind of masking offers some level of

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<v Speaker 1>the barriers against transmission of this virus. We know, and

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<v Speaker 1>we have known for some time, that they are transmitted

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<v Speaker 1>in droplets when you breathe in and read out, and

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<v Speaker 1>people initially suspected that even the tinier, tinier particles might

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<v Speaker 1>carry the virus, and since then it's been confirmed that

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<v Speaker 1>they do transmit as well in these tiny droplets, and

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<v Speaker 1>the more robust masks, the K and ninety five grade

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<v Speaker 1>or the N ninety five grade, can better stop those

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<v Speaker 1>tinier particles from spreading as well. And you know, with

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<v Speaker 1>omcon being so widely prevalent, I think the thinking is

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<v Speaker 1>that your chance of encountering this is increased. So if

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<v Speaker 1>you can protect yourself and protect other people, this is

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<v Speaker 1>something you you should be able to do. Right in

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<v Speaker 1>your article, you posted an interesting graph that kind of shows,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, how long it would take to be exposed

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<v Speaker 1>to COVID. You know, if somebody was infected and wore

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<v Speaker 1>a mask or didn't wear a mask, vice versa, what

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<v Speaker 1>kind of mask, you know, and a person that was

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<v Speaker 1>not infected, if they were in the same room, how

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<v Speaker 1>long it would take. And if nobody's wearing anything, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in a matter of fifteen minutes, you've been exposed and

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<v Speaker 1>you could be infected already. You know, if you start

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<v Speaker 1>wearing surgical masks and ninety five masks, you know, it

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<v Speaker 1>obviously takes a lot longer. If both people are wearing

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<v Speaker 1>surgical masks, it could take up to an hour before

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<v Speaker 1>you might be infected. If you're wearing these n ninety

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<v Speaker 1>five mass it's like twenty five hours, you know. So

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<v Speaker 1>the type of mask, the protections they provide, the better

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<v Speaker 1>they are. Obviously they do help out a lot, absolutely, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and some of it has to do with the way

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<v Speaker 1>they are structured in terms of the layers that they

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<v Speaker 1>are placed one over the other. Some of the k

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<v Speaker 1>and some of the surgical masks have a material that

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<v Speaker 1>is like a plastic that has an electrostatic charge that

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<v Speaker 1>traps the particles better, so better, you know, stops them

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<v Speaker 1>from moving around. The other thing that experts point to

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<v Speaker 1>really as far as making the most effective use of

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<v Speaker 1>these is really the fit. So I know it's easy

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<v Speaker 1>to have you if you have your glasses on and

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<v Speaker 1>your mask underneath and you sort of shifted around so

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<v Speaker 1>that it doesn't fog things up, but really having a

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<v Speaker 1>super tight feel around your face is part of making

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<v Speaker 1>sure that these are working as they ought to. Because

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<v Speaker 1>inasmuch as you want the particles from being prevented from

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<v Speaker 1>going through the masks, if they're coming up over your

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<v Speaker 1>nose or you know, in gaps, that is something that

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<v Speaker 1>what needs to be watching out for as well. We

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<v Speaker 1>know that obviously the conversation is going around right now,

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<v Speaker 1>that's why we're talking about it. But what is the

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<v Speaker 1>official guidance from the CDC right now on this, Because

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<v Speaker 1>they're not saying they're not, they're still you know, they

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<v Speaker 1>want any anybody to mask up anyway as possible, just

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<v Speaker 1>to help out as much. But they have even said,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, maybe double masking is a smart choice. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I think there are some experts who would like the

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<v Speaker 1>CDC to come out pretty specifically and say this mask

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<v Speaker 1>over that mask, and say that some master that is another,

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<v Speaker 1>or even recommend people use a certain kind of mask.

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<v Speaker 1>The time this came up recently is when the CDC

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<v Speaker 1>changed its isolation guidelines for people who have been infected

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<v Speaker 1>with COVID nineteen, and they proposed that they can come

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<v Speaker 1>away from isolation if there is symptomatic after five these potentially,

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<v Speaker 1>but keep a mark on for a certain period of

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<v Speaker 1>time after that to keep protection at its match. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll see how the conversation continues around this. Obviously we're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing the omicron variants spread very quickly, so just be

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<v Speaker 1>safe and protect yourself. Nitty super Roman, science reporter at

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<v Speaker 1>the Wall Street Journal, thank you very much for joining us.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you. I'm Oscar Ramirez and this has been reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't forget effort today's big news stories. You can check

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