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Speaker 1: Hello one, Marlins fans, and welcome to this edition of

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Speaker 1: Big Fish, Small Pod four Thursday, June thirtieth, twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: And if you onto the Small.

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Speaker 1: Pod, he would like to give you all the information

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Speaker 1: about the Marlins for that particular day, all.

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Speaker 2: Season long, in ten minutes or less.

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Speaker 1: And Marlon's fans, I want to welcome you to this

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Speaker 1: edition of the Small Pod. We will have our second

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Speaker 1: guest ever, and I want to introduce that guest, mister

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Speaker 1: Eli Sussman.

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Speaker 2: Eli, what's up?

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Speaker 1: Kevin got you beat to be the first guest, but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't hurt to be second.

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Speaker 3: I think I have better content to cover than he did.

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Speaker 3: I've been timing on this one for me to come on.

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Speaker 3: I felt like I had to come on just to

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Speaker 3: discuss the big breaking news that we're weighing into. And

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Speaker 3: it's unusual that we record on a sandy day and

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Speaker 3: the big story is not Sandy himself, so you can

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Speaker 3: dive right into it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I would say there are two big news that kind

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Speaker 1: of came out the other day regarding to Marlins. One

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Speaker 1: regarding jazz, but we'll get to that later. But the

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Speaker 1: first one I'll talk about is the Marlins parting ways

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Speaker 1: with Vice president of player Development and Scouting Gary denbo.

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Speaker 1: This is big news for the Marlin especially with the

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Speaker 1: draft coming up. Just Eli, what does this mean for

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Speaker 1: the Marlins and what would you just great?

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Speaker 2: Gary denviol over on his tenure with Miami.

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Speaker 3: So this is not a surprise certainly that happened this year.

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Speaker 3: He was Derek cheeters right hand man. That's how everybody

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Speaker 3: described him. He was hand picked from the Yankees organization.

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Speaker 3: He had been the Yankee throughout the nineties and the

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Speaker 3: two thousands and all the way up to twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 3: and they brought him over I think at a slight

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Speaker 3: promotion from what he was with the Yankees, and he

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Speaker 3: was highly regarded for turning around their farm system of

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Speaker 3: like five years ago. They thought he would do the

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Speaker 3: same with the Marlins. He was given kind of free

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Speaker 3: reign to do whatever he wanted with their minor league system.

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Speaker 3: He took over the worst farm system in baseball that

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Speaker 3: Lauria left him, and he was as much as you

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Speaker 3: would think, I guess that that his focus is at

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Speaker 3: the lowest level.

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Speaker 4: Guys, it really was everything.

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Speaker 3: It was absolutely everything, all levels of the farm system

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Speaker 3: in terms of actually setting a direction for how they

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Speaker 3: were going to develop players.

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Speaker 5: These words on this sheet, this is what we are about.

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Speaker 5: First one on the list is we respect and abide

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Speaker 5: by the rules of the Miami Marlins and Major League Baseball.

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Speaker 5: The next one, we respect ourselves, our teammates, our opponents,

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Speaker 5: our fans, and the game, and we represent all with dignity.

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Speaker 3: The most basic thing is that he just overhauled the

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Speaker 3: staff that they had.

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Speaker 4: They overhauled all the players that were.

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Speaker 3: In the farm system at the time, and I think

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Speaker 3: by all accounts, he was pretty instrumental in acquiring players

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Speaker 3: in the first place, not just in the drafts and internationally,

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Speaker 3: but in trades. He was a guy that was on

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Speaker 3: in those conversations of negotiating trades and getting those prospects

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Speaker 3: back everybody from Lewis Brinston to Sandy Alcontra and everybody

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Speaker 3: in between. And I think that continued for a lot

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Speaker 3: of his tenure got to the end here. So the

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Speaker 3: bottom line is that this was four months in the making.

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Speaker 3: That's when Derek Jeter kind of left as CEO, and

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Speaker 3: it was natural that just because of what we know

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Speaker 3: about him as a person, you don't forget.

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Speaker 4: About his talent evaluation.

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Speaker 3: He's the guy that maybe he was the smartest person

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Speaker 3: in the room, but when it comes to actually running

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Speaker 3: a successful major league organization, that's not the only thing

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Speaker 3: that matters. He rubbed off as a guy that was

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Speaker 3: not always very collaborative and this is why that regardless

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Speaker 3: of how we performed and how much of the farmsism

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Speaker 3: has improved, I don't think I think he wore out

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Speaker 3: his welcome and that they he wasn't performing well enough

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Speaker 3: to staying on with the new administration here under him. Ang.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, the Marlins have really been known

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Speaker 1: in the farm system to have really top notch pitching,

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Speaker 1: but when it comes to hitting wise developing hitters, they're

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Speaker 1: the complete opposite. You know, Marlin's usually have really great pictures.

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Speaker 1: We have Eddie Cabrera, guys like that have then hitting

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Speaker 1: you don't really get to any to that level. What

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Speaker 1: would you say that Gary Denvil's influence maybe to that

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Speaker 1: portion where the Marlins aren't really the best hitting in

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Speaker 1: the farm system, but pitching their top notch well.

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Speaker 3: Definitely the first couple of years, what stood out was

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Speaker 3: the players they were targeting, the profiles that were going

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Speaker 3: after in the first place of players that seemed to

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Speaker 3: have a very high bust rate and just had this

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Speaker 3: very narrow path to being successful because of lack of

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Speaker 3: more so, he focused on athletes over skills. He focused

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Speaker 3: on guys that had upsides to be great if they

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Speaker 3: learned how to hit, but guys that didn't necessarily know

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Speaker 3: how to hit in the first place. He was somebody

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Speaker 3: that most of his background wasn't coaching hitting, and I

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Speaker 3: think he felt like he or the people working directly

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Speaker 3: underneath him, would be able to teach those type of

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Speaker 3: skills that are ordinarily very difficult to do. As you

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Speaker 3: alluded to, just the failure rate on a lot of

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Speaker 3: these players is extremely high. For the fact that if

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Speaker 3: you look around the industry, there was a lot of

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Speaker 3: hype for the players that they acquired in trades and

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Speaker 3: be a draft, and yet a lot of them just

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Speaker 3: not developing into the players they're supposed to be. I

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Speaker 3: think you have to put a lot of that on

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Speaker 3: Denbo and to balance it out. Of course, as you

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Speaker 3: mentioned with the pitching, I think the pitching has been

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Speaker 3: pretty incredible on a variety of levels, and externally that

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Speaker 3: has something to do with their development system as well,

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Speaker 3: even if it's not Denbo's tentacles directly on that, I

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Speaker 3: think the bottom line is that they were in a

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Speaker 3: position where, given all the stars that they had to

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Speaker 3: trade in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, and also

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Speaker 3: how they were picking near the top of the draft

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Speaker 3: and in international bonus pools for several years, this was

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Speaker 3: the I think the vision was that this would become

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Speaker 3: the very best farm system in baseball, and that they

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Speaker 3: would develop some practices to reliably pump out just great

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Speaker 3: talent at all positions, kind of as the Rays do.

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Speaker 3: The Rays are an example. I think he wanted them

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Speaker 3: to be a fusion of the Rays and the Yankees

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Speaker 3: in that respect, and they fail up a little bit short.

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Speaker 3: There's no point where this has really been the number

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Speaker 3: one farm system in baseball or even all that close

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Speaker 3: to it. So, even if I think you have to

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Speaker 3: credit him for some things, I think the overall project

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Speaker 3: just did not live up to expectations that needed to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the timing of this couldn't have been I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it's maybe even worse or weird with the

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Speaker 1: draft a little over a month away, around three weeks away.

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Speaker 1: What do you think the Marlin's attentions are now the

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Speaker 1: draft will be Sherman's decisions. Cam, just how do you

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Speaker 1: expect this draft process to go from Miami?

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Speaker 3: I think there are some people that may know a

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Speaker 3: little more than me, but my understanding is that this

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Speaker 3: doesn't affect it a whole lot. They are, at least

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Speaker 3: for now. I think we need to wait to see

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Speaker 3: for one if any other executives follow him out the

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Speaker 3: door in the near future, considering that he was one

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Speaker 3: of the higher ranking guys in the whole Marlins organization,

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Speaker 3: if not DJ Sphilick for the last several years, at

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Speaker 3: least since twenty nineteen, at least the last three drafts.

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Speaker 3: I know for sure he's been heading up that thing,

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Speaker 3: like he's been calling the shots at the very end

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Speaker 3: when necessary. And he's still here, and I'm pretty impressed

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Speaker 3: with him. I believe he was somebody that was brought

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Speaker 3: on by Denbo directly, and I think so maybe his

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Speaker 3: future beyond this draft is uncertain. It is a little

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Speaker 3: bit weird timing, but really more of Denbo's priority would

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Speaker 3: be just getting those new draft picks accustomed to Pro

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Speaker 3: ball and deciding exactly where their paths go from there.

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Speaker 4: I don't think he was necessarily.

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Speaker 3: Calling the shots on a lot of those high draft

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Speaker 3: picks in that respect, in the draft where Marlins had

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Speaker 3: the number six overall pick and really need to get

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Speaker 3: it right. I don't think this changes it all that much.

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Speaker 3: And I think, as we just referenced a few minutes ago,

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Speaker 3: like they probably saw this coming anyway. I'd be surprised

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Speaker 3: if if people didn't get some sort of a heads

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Speaker 3: up internally and make adjustments accordingly with the idea that

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Speaker 3: this was going to be Denbo's last year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the other news that broke, both of the

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Speaker 1: news are being broken by Pregnant that draft Trisham juniors expect.

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Speaker 2: To be placed in the with back issues.

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Speaker 1: So what do you think it's happening there with Jazz

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Speaker 1: looks like he might miss more than ten days, we'll

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Speaker 1: probably miss the All Star Game.

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Speaker 2: Just how do you think the Marlins should deal with

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Speaker 2: this and just.

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Speaker 1: What are your expectations maybe for the feature the rest

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Speaker 1: of the season with Jazz now having back issues.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's scary, scary because you just for the moment

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Speaker 3: they're just talking about it as the spasms before he

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Speaker 3: went on the IL and now just says discomfort and

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Speaker 3: hopefully it's something where he just gets the necessary rest

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Speaker 3: to be able to overcome it. It's just it's a

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Speaker 3: slippery slope when there's something, if there's any sort of

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Speaker 3: real injury to the back, and but that could how

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Speaker 3: that could affect everything else about the body. That's when

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Speaker 3: you don't want it to linger, certainly beyond this season

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Speaker 3: at all. And there are other players unfortunately where that

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Speaker 3: is the case, like Christian Yellis is the best example

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Speaker 3: I would say around baseball, a guy that has not

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Speaker 3: been the same since his back issue is really intensified

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Speaker 3: a few years ago. In the meantime, the fact that

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Speaker 3: they need to be cautious with it that it's so

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Speaker 3: obvious at this point, even though they don't admit it publicly,

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Speaker 3: where this direct season is headed in like they should

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Speaker 3: not be continuing to put in these veteran stop gaps

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Speaker 3: that nobody wants to see play at the major league

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Speaker 3: level just to hopefully stay afloat as best they can

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Speaker 3: in the playoff race.

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Speaker 4: They're not close enough in the race to do that.

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Speaker 3: They need to focus on everything to this point is

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty three and beyond, and that means calling up

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Speaker 3: young guys who haven't played in the majors before who

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Speaker 3: are performing well at tripa A. Hopefully that's what we'd

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Speaker 3: like to see, where John Birdie is probably the main

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Speaker 3: second baseman for the near term future, but there are

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Speaker 3: other ways to shuffle around the infield, to bring up

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Speaker 3: a Charles l Blanc, to bring up a Price and

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Speaker 3: brig in on the infield side anybody, anybody that we

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Speaker 3: haven't seen before that could potentially contribute at multiple positions

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Speaker 3: that hopefully can hit. Because all these guys that they've

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Speaker 3: rotated through whenever Jazz is in the lineup, whoever replaces

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Speaker 3: them can't hit. It's been Eric Gonzales, and it's been

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Speaker 3: Astadio who can hit singles but nothing else.

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Speaker 2: Williams was just caught up for that move.

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Speaker 3: Another william might be as bad as any of them

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Speaker 3: in terms of just swinging the bat. There's so much

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Speaker 3: upside when you have virtual players that can actually hit

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Speaker 3: a little bit. And if they can find one of

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Speaker 3: those internally that hasn't gotten an opportunity yet, this would

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Speaker 3: be the perfect time to do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you say that perfectly. I think I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: have to wrap it up.

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Speaker 1: We can probably talk about this in long form for hours,

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Speaker 1: but Small Pod keep a sword elight. I want to

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on and maybe for

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Speaker 1: the people listening who might not know where could they

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Speaker 1: find you on Twitter?

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Speaker 3: Not just on Twitter, you can find it anywhere that

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Speaker 3: you search for Fish Stripes. I am at the helm

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Speaker 3: of that, whether it's you need to point people to

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Speaker 3: YouTube or so, so make sure to check that out

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Speaker 3: as well, and just here on the podcast network as well.

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Speaker 3: Anywhere you're listening to this, you'll be able to find

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Speaker 3: the official show where I'll have another one of those

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Speaker 3: out on Thursday as well, going more into detail about

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Speaker 3: heading into the trade deadline and who I feel are

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Speaker 3: the untouchables on this team right now, so be sure

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Speaker 3: to check that out, and of course listen to Daniel

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Speaker 3: here a couple of times a week, every single week

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Speaker 3: here on the Fish Stripes podcast.

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Speaker 1: And when this comes out, also make sure we will

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Speaker 1: have Fish Stripes Jeopardy later in the night, so make

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Speaker 1: sure to tune in. But you know, before that, make

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Speaker 1: sure to go like share and subscribe to wherever you

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Speaker 1: get the Small Pod and always go Fish, Go Fish