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Speaker 1: and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know
Speaker 1: stories of things we simply don't know the answer to. Hi. There,
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe your
Speaker 1: host this week, joined by my co hosts Den and Steve.
Speaker 1: All Right, well, you guys want to solve a really
Speaker 1: groovy mystery. Yeah, we're we at least poles in it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is, um, this is a kind of an interesting one.
Speaker 1: It's not a really huge one, but people are still
Speaker 1: chewing over it years after it happened. Yeah. This this
Speaker 1: is because this is uh, this is tied into another big,
Speaker 1: giant mystery, and so I'm pretty sure that's why people
Speaker 1: are so intrigued by it. The other one is, of course,
Speaker 1: the assassination of JFK. I'm sure most of you have
Speaker 1: heard about. Yeah, so explaining to second this ties in, uh,
Speaker 1: we are talking this week about the mysterious disappearance of
Speaker 1: Congressman Hail Boggs in nineteen seventy two, not Hailbop not
Speaker 1: hail bop comment many, yeah, Hailbogs. So briefly, what happened
Speaker 1: is that Hail Boggs was in Alaska campaigning for another
Speaker 1: congressman named Nick Baggage. Since Hail Boggs was the he
Speaker 1: was the majority leader in the House and so he
Speaker 1: was expected to go do campaigning for some of the
Speaker 1: other candidates. Baggage was in a tight race, so he
Speaker 1: was off. He was there headed for a fundraiser in Juneo.
Speaker 1: They were Democrats, Yeah, yeah, And they got on an
Speaker 1: assessment not three ten six Ceder plane in Anchorage along
Speaker 1: with the pilot, John Jones and Baggage's assistant Russell Brown.
Speaker 1: They were headed from Anchorage to Juno for a campaign fundraiser,
Speaker 1: and long story short, the plane never made it to
Speaker 1: Juno and the wreckage was never found. It's got vanished. Yeah. First,
Speaker 1: a little background on our subject. Thomas Hale Boggs was
Speaker 1: first elected to the House in nineteen forty. Then he
Speaker 1: lost his re election bid in nineteen two. So he
Speaker 1: decided to go join the navy. And so you want
Speaker 1: to join the Navy and did a little fight in
Speaker 1: World War Two. It was a very patriotic thing to
Speaker 1: do with. Yeah, yeah, a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: people did it, and for our listeners, so they know
Speaker 1: why I was just giggling in the background. Our notes
Speaker 1: say that he was de elected, I'd say that, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was de selected there and he elected, and then
Speaker 1: after World War Two he made a come back in
Speaker 1: ninety six and course yeah, yeah, he's won't served in
Speaker 1: the war. That's got to boost your cred There's a
Speaker 1: bunch of guys who came back from the war and
Speaker 1: got right into office using that platform. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know that Box was a war hero exactly, but
Speaker 1: he did his bit, you know, and that sometimes it's
Speaker 1: all it takes. Yeah, absolutely he was. By the time
Speaker 1: he disappeared, he was House Majority leaders. I mentioned he
Speaker 1: was next in line for the speakership. And some of
Speaker 1: you may have heard of his daughter, Cokie Roberts, who
Speaker 1: was with NPR and also I think with ABC News
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, I like listening to her. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: still got a great voice. Yeah, she still gets asked
Speaker 1: questions about her dad too. Bet her dad's disappearance. You know, people,
Speaker 1: just like I said, people are still chewing over this one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Another thing about hail Box that's interesting is that he
Speaker 1: served on the President's Commission on the Assassination of John Fitzgerald.
Speaker 1: Kennedy also noticed a Warran commission because it was headed
Speaker 1: by Earl Warren. Box reportedly was not happy. This is rumor,
Speaker 1: has it not happy with the actual results of the
Speaker 1: Warrant commission. Yeah. Reportedly, he also reportedly spoke with Jim Garrison.
Speaker 1: You may have heard of. Kevin Costner played him in
Speaker 1: Oliver Stone's movie JFK Oh. Yeah, Jim Jim Garrison was
Speaker 1: a New Orleans District attorney. Box apparently spilled his guest
Speaker 1: to Jim Jim Garrison and gave him enough information to
Speaker 1: cause Garrison to indict and prosecute a New Orleans businessman
Speaker 1: named Clay Shaw, who if you haven't heard of, you know,
Speaker 1: watch the movie JFK or maybe I think he was
Speaker 1: played by Tommy Lee Jones in the movie. It's been
Speaker 1: so long since I've seen that. I don't even want
Speaker 1: to hazard guests, but I didn't see it. Yeah, could
Speaker 1: you not watch the movie? I know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Do my research for this. Yeah. The rumor
Speaker 1: was is that that Garrison had this, he had a
Speaker 1: witness and he said he went to a party, like
Speaker 1: some sort of cocktail party where Clay Shaw and some
Speaker 1: other associates met with none other than Lee Lee Harvey
Speaker 1: Oswald and a lot of the assassination of JFK. And
Speaker 1: so he took the case to court and I think
Speaker 1: the I don't remember how long the trial actually went
Speaker 1: on for a while, and he made his case and
Speaker 1: then the Jerry came back in the quitted show after
Speaker 1: after deliberating for less than an hour. Out. Yeah, his
Speaker 1: career didn't go that's kind of humiliating. Yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: because that's a major trial. So why did he spill
Speaker 1: this guesst Garrison? If he did well? Again, as I said,
Speaker 1: it's been rumored he wasn't satisfied with the verdict of
Speaker 1: the Warrant Commission, and it's also been rumored that he
Speaker 1: wanted to reopen the assassination investigation. Let's be fair, he
Speaker 1: wouldn't be the only person that's true. Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, listen, this is the thing that is so
Speaker 1: funny when you read about about Hillbogs is everybody makes
Speaker 1: it out that he was running around Washington constantly screaming
Speaker 1: what a cock up the Warrant Commission was and how
Speaker 1: wrong it was. But you've got to look at the
Speaker 1: dates here. The Warrant Commission ended in sixty four. He
Speaker 1: died in seventy two, right, yeah, okay, years later. That's
Speaker 1: eight years. If I don't like something over the course
Speaker 1: of eight years, I'm probably gonna make some disparaging remarks
Speaker 1: to it. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna that I
Speaker 1: am so flaming angry at it as the way that
Speaker 1: you you find it in a lot of the accounting. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true about you or not,
Speaker 1: because I've heard you get that angry time, but not
Speaker 1: eight years later. But not about the Warrant Commission. That's
Speaker 1: not about the work. I was fine when I was
Speaker 1: on the Warrant Commission. It was fine. You were satisfied
Speaker 1: with the results, yea, now they The thing about it
Speaker 1: is is like there's there's evidence both reactions. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: I'm just just the way it is phrased and put
Speaker 1: two readers on the internet is why I want to
Speaker 1: bring that up. Oh yeah, if you if you read
Speaker 1: all this stuff in the internet, he was telling anybody
Speaker 1: and everybody about you know, massive lize the FBI and
Speaker 1: how you know, and how and how their investigation was
Speaker 1: all cocked up and everything, and uh, you know, but
Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit more about that later. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to say. Regarding the warr And Commission, a
Speaker 1: lot of the people that served on it really actually,
Speaker 1: we're kind of reluctant to and a couple of them
Speaker 1: even pointed out that it's really not going to settle
Speaker 1: the issue, will probably just make things worse. And that's
Speaker 1: really basically what happened with the warr Commission. From the start.
Speaker 1: It was everybody was a legend, cover up, cover up,
Speaker 1: you know, and so why you even bother? Yeah, absolutely true. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But anyway, all this, all this talk about reopening the
Speaker 1: investigation has led to speculations still going on today that
Speaker 1: Boggs disappearance was not an accident and he was murdered
Speaker 1: to head off a new investigation. So they didn't do
Speaker 1: a very good job. People are still poking around. And
Speaker 1: then they did not nail the lid shot on that
Speaker 1: one very well. Yeah, I think they missed completely knocked
Speaker 1: the lid off. And yeah, yeah, they just stirred up
Speaker 1: a Hornet's nest here. So there's a lot of talk
Speaker 1: about the you know, the elements of the CIA and
Speaker 1: murdered him. It's also talking about maybe it was the
Speaker 1: FBI that did him in. The CIA couldn't have murdered him,
Speaker 1: you don't think, so, I don't think. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Every time somebody's like, oh, the CIA murdered this guy,
Speaker 1: but did it happen on US soil, then it probably
Speaker 1: wasn't the CIA thinks, right, think isn't that the thing?
Speaker 1: The CIA can't operate on US soil without a different
Speaker 1: department quote unquote heading it. Well, yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: if they're if they're doing something as the illegal is
Speaker 1: murdering people, they probably don't care or you just got
Speaker 1: the FBI to do it for you. There pretty much
Speaker 1: and the FBI don't really like each other. That's true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's just always my initial reaction when
Speaker 1: I hear things like that it's finally coming out on
Speaker 1: the show. I tend to be a little skeptical about
Speaker 1: that whole thing. Might when I take of the CIA,
Speaker 1: I don't think of cloak and dagger, and I don't
Speaker 1: think of special black ops, and you know, wet work
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. I think of just blistering incompetence.
Speaker 1: That's what the lake. Yeah maybe he did it. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: No more talk about those guys. Okay, I want to
Speaker 1: stay alive. Uh So we should fraably get back to
Speaker 1: hail Bogs. Yah. Let's talk to hail Box here for
Speaker 1: a minute. The hail Box actually, speaking of the FBI,
Speaker 1: had a good relationship with Jager Hoover. I read to
Speaker 1: a bit of his FBI files and there were a
Speaker 1: lot of there was a lot of correspondence back and
Speaker 1: forth on various issues, and hail Bogs was constantly praising
Speaker 1: Hoover and the FBI and the Audiadiada, which is so
Speaker 1: counter to some of the louder websites that you find
Speaker 1: on this story, and it's so funny. Well, things did
Speaker 1: change a little bit. Things did change, yeah, and by
Speaker 1: by April nineteen seventy one. In April nineteen seventy one,
Speaker 1: Bogs claimed that he discovered a bug and his telephone
Speaker 1: at home and he thought it was the FBI to
Speaker 1: put it there. And then in maybe two weeks later,
Speaker 1: he gave a speech before Congress in which he called
Speaker 1: for Jaker, who were to resign. Yeah, and he was.
Speaker 1: He was drawing like parallels between Jacker Hooger and the
Speaker 1: FBI and the Soviets and stuff like this and all
Speaker 1: this stuff. Yeah, yeah, Did you did either of you
Speaker 1: listen to the because obviously Nixon wasn't very happy about that.
Speaker 1: Did you listen to the tapes the from Nixon when
Speaker 1: he was talking to I think it was, yeah, Jerry
Speaker 1: because he called him Jerry, so it was for when
Speaker 1: he was talking to him, and it's They always say, well,
Speaker 1: then this is proof that Nixon wanted him out, and
Speaker 1: Nixon's not happy with him. But I had never heard
Speaker 1: any of the tapes from Nixon before, and it is
Speaker 1: the weirdest conversation in the world to listen to. Did
Speaker 1: either of you get it? Is? I have never heard
Speaker 1: such a leading conversation. In other words, Nixon would start
Speaker 1: talking and there would be a question in there, and
Speaker 1: then Ford would start, you know, oh yes or oh yes, sir,
Speaker 1: oh yes, sir to answer the question and make him
Speaker 1: feel better, and then he would just ride over him
Speaker 1: and then he would oh, okay, well I gotta let
Speaker 1: you go. I gotta go, and then he'd do it
Speaker 1: all over again. It was the weirdest thing in the
Speaker 1: world to listen to. And I didn't know why everybody
Speaker 1: made such a fuss about it. It really was just
Speaker 1: I don't think that guy should have done that, And
Speaker 1: I think we got a problem. So you should have
Speaker 1: somebody look into this. Okay, thanks by got a problem
Speaker 1: with Boggs, a problem with with Hoover, with Bosh, Yeah,
Speaker 1: with Bogs and everything he was saying against Hoover. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I know that Nixon was not about to touch Hoover.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know a story nobody. Yeah, Hoover was untouchable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's got his own damn. Yeah, seriously, and he uh
Speaker 1: he had the goods on everybody, the rumor has and
Speaker 1: so yeah, everybody was afraid to go after Hohoover. This
Speaker 1: is why his grave is hidden, because it's all in
Speaker 1: his coffin. Yeah, secrets. Ye. I would love to get
Speaker 1: my hands on his files. So cool, you and me both.
Speaker 1: Yeah anyway, Yeah, so something changed boxes mind about j
Speaker 1: Edgar Um. Now back to our faithful plane ride. The morning.
Speaker 1: It was the morning of October six, nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 1: The weather was so so it's fog, low clouds, a
Speaker 1: little drizzle, you remember I was there. Yeah, yeah, and uh.
Speaker 1: There was a company called pan Alaska that was only
Speaker 1: a guy named Don Jones who piloted this this plane
Speaker 1: that was the plane was one of their planes. It's Jones.
Speaker 1: It's in case somebody's going to go out in google
Speaker 1: it Z. It's j O and Z, which isn't exactly
Speaker 1: the intuitive spelling of the word. Yeah, I've heard it
Speaker 1: pronounced John's as well. Yeah. I was just about to
Speaker 1: say it could be Johns, I don't know, or or
Speaker 1: Juan's yawns. But it's Jon Jones. Now it could be
Speaker 1: John Z for all we know, but for our purposes
Speaker 1: we'll just call him Jones. His flight plan basically was
Speaker 1: that they were going to the town of Yakutat and
Speaker 1: probably this meant that pronouncing that, But they're going by
Speaker 1: via airway V three seventeen, which is a flight route.
Speaker 1: It's a flight route. Yeah, yeah, and uh and from
Speaker 1: and once they got to Yakutut, then yak Yakutat, they
Speaker 1: would go on a straight line to Juno. From there,
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be about it about a three
Speaker 1: and a half hour trip. So the route goes southeast
Speaker 1: from Ancoras to what's called Portage Pass through the mountains,
Speaker 1: and then it veers leftward a bit and goes pretty
Speaker 1: much more or less straight to Yakutat, and then from
Speaker 1: there it was to not just just a little bit
Speaker 1: right ward carries on to Juneo, but it leaves to
Speaker 1: the V seventeen flight path. So it's pretty much overland. No, no,
Speaker 1: it's mostly over water. Mostly over water. That's that's actually
Speaker 1: you have the I've got a map of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so what you're looking at it. It's funny is that
Speaker 1: I had looked up what the current normal route is
Speaker 1: between the two cities. Yeah, and most commercial airlines today
Speaker 1: actually take an arc between the two and they stay
Speaker 1: inland for most of that trip. So it was really
Speaker 1: interesting when I saw this that it was actually but
Speaker 1: it's on the coastline. Over water, but on the coastline. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's pretty much. Yeah. So yeah, it takes off, goes
Speaker 1: to Portage Pass and then heads off across Pritts Williams
Speaker 1: Sound and then you know, it's mostly over water, but
Speaker 1: it's it's not that far off the coast, so if
Speaker 1: you get a little bit of trouble, maybe you can
Speaker 1: find the innikulated dry land before you crash. The water
Speaker 1: is cold, it be hard, Yeah, it would suck either way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Don Jones, the pilot said that he was going to
Speaker 1: fly under visual flight rules. What does that mean? The
Speaker 1: visual flight rules means that it's that that's what you
Speaker 1: do when the weather it's clear enough that you can
Speaker 1: see all around you. And and then instrument flight rules
Speaker 1: are when when conditions are very limited visibility, then you're
Speaker 1: supposed to be able to fly by instruments instead of
Speaker 1: just by using your just fly by side or fly
Speaker 1: by instrument. He was doing fly by sight, yeah, he was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, kind of foggy cloud weather and he
Speaker 1: was of course he was qualified to do both, right
Speaker 1: he was. Yeah. I mean he's this guy had like
Speaker 1: seventeen thousand hours of flight experience. That's it. I think
Speaker 1: that's probably an important thing to mention as well, because
Speaker 1: it's not Yeah, and so I don't know if he
Speaker 1: was just getting cocky or what, but yeah, he But
Speaker 1: the NTSB investigated this and wrote a report in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy three, that's when they released it. Anyway, those uninitiated
Speaker 1: TSB National Transportation Safety Board. That's it listens about that.
Speaker 1: I'm thank you for saying that, because I read it
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I know what that is,
Speaker 1: and then just continued months. Good call. Yeah, okay, it's
Speaker 1: but according to their report quote the weather conditions along
Speaker 1: the proposed route, we're not conducive to flight under visual
Speaker 1: flight rules criteria unquote. Yeah, but anyway, that's what they did.
Speaker 1: They took off at nine am. Last communication with anchorage
Speaker 1: tower was at nine oh nine am, and reportedly they
Speaker 1: disap as they were approaching the Chugach Mountain Range. I
Speaker 1: hope I'm pronouncing that right. Probably not, so the plant
Speaker 1: didn't even make it to Yakoo, tad All. An interesting
Speaker 1: factory about the Chugach Mountains is that they get more
Speaker 1: snowfall than any other place in the world. What they do,
Speaker 1: annual average snowfall is si So if they're playing did
Speaker 1: happen to crash in the in the in those mountains, well,
Speaker 1: it's not a surprised. I never found that. That absolutely
Speaker 1: is for our not American everybody else who uses the
Speaker 1: metric system metrified, that's fifteen point to five. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's not nothing. It's not a lot of snow. You
Speaker 1: can make an awesome. Snowman really big one, yeah, or
Speaker 1: a lot of them. Snowman army, Yeah, would be great.
Speaker 1: Give them a little hats, send them marching on anchor
Speaker 1: don't watch Dr Who. I remember that episode they have
Speaker 1: testy little teeth that they have actual carnivorous snowman or something.
Speaker 1: I saw that one they did. I like it. Back
Speaker 1: where we are we Yeah, So the plane was supposed
Speaker 1: to arrive in Juneo at twelve thirty PM. At one
Speaker 1: fifteen it was reported overdue. So the US Air Force
Speaker 1: Rescue Coordination Center checked with all the air fields that
Speaker 1: were anywhere near the plane's flight path, and nobody had
Speaker 1: seen or heard anything from the plane, so that he
Speaker 1: didn't make an emergency landing anywhere. And they were in
Speaker 1: a six You said it was a six seeded Cessna. Yeah,
Speaker 1: twin engine Cessna with six seeds. I am never going
Speaker 1: to get an as Sessa. Yeah right, yeah, yeah, they diverted.
Speaker 1: There was already an an airborne HC one thirty plane
Speaker 1: up in the air, so they diverted that to go
Speaker 1: look for the plane, and of course they brought in
Speaker 1: lots more resources. This was one of the biggest searches
Speaker 1: ever they spent thirty nine days looking for theseus I
Speaker 1: guess you will. Yeah, yeah. Uh So the planes helicopters,
Speaker 1: both government owned in private, and they served s thousands
Speaker 1: of square miles of land and also Coastguard cutters along
Speaker 1: with merchant marine vessels and fishing vessels search Prince William Sound,
Speaker 1: the Gulf of Alaska and the Icy Straits area around Juneau,
Speaker 1: and they found nothing, not even a bit of wreckage
Speaker 1: floating in the water. Nothing. And then an interesting little
Speaker 1: side side. Some people have made a lot of this
Speaker 1: like they have. In October eighteenth, nineteen seventy two, the
Speaker 1: fbis Los Angeles office got a call from a guy.
Speaker 1: And I've heard this two ways. One was the FBI
Speaker 1: I got a call from the guy, and the animal
Speaker 1: was that this guy called the Long Beach Coast Guard Office. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I have actually seen it both ways, now that you
Speaker 1: say that. Yeah. And so this guy claimed work for
Speaker 1: a company that specialized in quote surveillance technologies unquote, and
Speaker 1: that they had located the plane via either some sort
Speaker 1: of radio transmission or via the transmission from its emergency
Speaker 1: location transmitter. Because most planes carry the fact that they
Speaker 1: all carry the days today they all do. They didn't
Speaker 1: carryhim in those days necessarily. This actually, this crash is
Speaker 1: why all planes now have HE transponders in them, which
Speaker 1: are really really effective, as we know from recent crashes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're very helpful in finding crashes. They are kind of
Speaker 1: helpful usually. The first time I ever saw when I
Speaker 1: was in a little two seater sessment with this guy
Speaker 1: that I knew, yeah, I was incess. I am like,
Speaker 1: actually this guy was. I really did kind of take
Speaker 1: my life in my hands because this guy was actually
Speaker 1: a fairly novice pilot and he wanted to go for
Speaker 1: and and so we rented this plane and took off
Speaker 1: from Vancouver, Washington and want to flew around not Saint
Speaker 1: Helen's cannon came back and that's when I know that
Speaker 1: I saw my first emergency transit. Emergency transmitter and says
Speaker 1: it looks like like a walkie talkie mounted in a
Speaker 1: really heavy duty bracket towards the back of the plane,
Speaker 1: and it's got a tagle switch on the top of it,
Speaker 1: and there's a little rail and it's got this heavy
Speaker 1: weight on it. So the whole idea is when I
Speaker 1: was plane goes Chris Smack action to something that heavyweight's
Speaker 1: gonna go back forward and toggle that switch. Very simple,
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, but yeah, and
Speaker 1: under Alaska law, you were required to have some sort
Speaker 1: of emergency transmitter if you didn't have one mounted in
Speaker 1: your plane, and then you could have a portable unit
Speaker 1: with with the pilot so you could do that. So
Speaker 1: Alaska did require them in this particular case. Just so
Speaker 1: over so I remember that that's two days after the
Speaker 1: crash that that guy called. Oh yeah, yeah, that's yeah,
Speaker 1: back to that until totally got off the track. That's okay,
Speaker 1: it is, yeah, two days yeah, so two days after
Speaker 1: the crash or two days after the disappearance. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: when he called. And then um, yeah, so this guy
Speaker 1: and he gave the coordinates of the crash site and
Speaker 1: although he didn't really give the coordinates as in ladder
Speaker 1: price precise latitude and longitude. Instead he gave these really
Speaker 1: strange directions. Yeah. Yeah. He also said that there were
Speaker 1: two people still alive there. He said, you know how
Speaker 1: he would know that, Well, that's kind of what I'm
Speaker 1: wondering too, because you know, then it must have neces
Speaker 1: sort of radio transmission. But what I don't understand is
Speaker 1: how it is that nobody else heard this? Yeah, or
Speaker 1: maybe they were doing like a flyover thermal. In the
Speaker 1: more real websites that you see, they say that at
Speaker 1: the time, the U. S. Government had the ability to
Speaker 1: actually track individual people and could pick up some kind
Speaker 1: of special radio and I don't know, I I don't
Speaker 1: understand it because it's really kind of fringe. E. It
Speaker 1: was his it was his fillings anyway, it was their
Speaker 1: electrical magnetic field. Everybody, they could track you by your
Speaker 1: personal electromagnetic field because what it was, and that they
Speaker 1: had the technology to do it, but they couldn't reveal that.
Speaker 1: So of course, whenever anybody said, well, how do you
Speaker 1: know that? But I can't tell you that? Or who
Speaker 1: do you work for? I can't tell you that because
Speaker 1: technically it's a government institution that he works for. It
Speaker 1: was the goofiest thing if you and you have the
Speaker 1: what he said, yes and that the directions right, Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: is our our highly highly reliable sources. They call him
Speaker 1: the FBI. I think they called him that. But okay,
Speaker 1: so here's how it goes. The it's is draw a
Speaker 1: straight line from Anchorage to Juno Head west from JUNO
Speaker 1: two hundred and an unknown number because we don't know
Speaker 1: what it is because the photocopy is so bad that Yeah,
Speaker 1: the tent. So it's hundred and blank six and one
Speaker 1: half miles across the Yakutat Bay and the Malsapoena Glacier.
Speaker 1: Draw a line from that point to the coast. Go
Speaker 1: back north along that line six point four or three
Speaker 1: miles to the downed plane. That, ladies and gentlemen, is
Speaker 1: a geographic word problem. Yeah, that's like an s A
Speaker 1: T question. It kind of is. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: unders understand why if they couldn't just give like the
Speaker 1: latitude and longitude. Maybe I have theories on it, and
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that when we get into the theories section.
Speaker 1: But that is that, that is the way that the
Speaker 1: directions were given. Yeah, the FBI and did go interview
Speaker 1: this guy. Unfortunately, his name has been redacted in their records,
Speaker 1: so I don't know what his name was, but yeah,
Speaker 1: they were part of that. He quote appeared rational, extremely intelligent,
Speaker 1: but somewhat strange unquote, and he was also evasive, like said,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't say where his what his company was, or
Speaker 1: exactly what they did wouldn't talk about that. And then uh,
Speaker 1: the FBI asked him again like later on, they if
Speaker 1: he knew anything about like what frequency these radio transmissions
Speaker 1: were on, or what any of these messages were, like
Speaker 1: what the text of matches were he was He wouldn't say,
Speaker 1: so he was absolutely part of the fringe, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: or pranks. Yeah, it could have been a prankster. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: The FBI did pass the info on to the relevant people.
Speaker 1: The area was reportedly searched and nothing was found. Uh,
Speaker 1: and after that day decided the source was a flake.
Speaker 1: And also again the plane, even though it didn't have
Speaker 1: any in an e l T Emergency location transmitter, the
Speaker 1: pilot still was supposed to carry one, but Don Jones
Speaker 1: and e LT was found later on board another Pan
Speaker 1: Alaska airplane. This is weird. I mean, I guess it's
Speaker 1: I think that he went from one plane to the
Speaker 1: next and left. Yeah. Yeah, but I guess again it's
Speaker 1: one of those. You know, he was a pretty accomplished pilot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't feel like it was really necessary. Coincidence that
Speaker 1: he decided to choose the wrong kind of way to fly.
Speaker 1: It's a coincidence that he managed to leave his transmitter
Speaker 1: on a different plane. Oh yeah, I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: think there's anything a dark conspiracy or anything like that.
Speaker 1: I think, but it is. It's a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of oh say yeah, yeah, I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 1: maybe the pilot was feeling a little down and decided
Speaker 1: to take himself out. And we've seen it before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. Uh so it appears that there was no
Speaker 1: emergency transmitter. Now the plane, of course had other radios
Speaker 1: in it, but how well those would be working after
Speaker 1: a plane crash, I don't know. Yeah, especially under snow. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think it dove all the way down through
Speaker 1: really hard. Well, it was in the sky, I'll give
Speaker 1: you that. That was I'm thinking of that plane that
Speaker 1: crashed in South America decades ago, and it's they were
Speaker 1: they were in a head wind and they didn't realize
Speaker 1: that they had not They were traveling basically from Buenos
Speaker 1: Aires to Peru, and so because of the head wind,
Speaker 1: they weren't as far west as they thought they were,
Speaker 1: so they started their descent too early and they sort
Speaker 1: of crashed into the side. Yeah. I was just reading
Speaker 1: about that the other day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then
Speaker 1: the most recently what happened is they wind up being
Speaker 1: becoming part of a glacier, and now parts of the
Speaker 1: plane are starting to come out of the glacier, the
Speaker 1: front of the glacier. Yeah, after all those years decades, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the planes finally popping out. Maybe that and maybe that's
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen here. Maybe you'll start coming out of
Speaker 1: a glacier one of these days. That plane crashed and
Speaker 1: it was forty six or forty seven or something like that,
Speaker 1: and these guys who were ha been in World War Two,
Speaker 1: So yeah, I remember that anyway. But that's all that's
Speaker 1: were I want to get off track. That's okay. It's
Speaker 1: people love to just hear us talk, even if we're
Speaker 1: not saying anything. But yeah, but as far as if
Speaker 1: they heard radio transmissions, like vote voice radio transmissions, it's
Speaker 1: kind of surprising nobody else did, although several independent Ham
Speaker 1: operators in northern California said they spoke with someone or
Speaker 1: at least heard a transmission from someone on the plane
Speaker 1: after it crashed who said that there were survivors. And
Speaker 1: then again, it's another one of those weird things right
Speaker 1: where it's like, but why so far away is that
Speaker 1: everybody was hearing it. You know, why weren't people why
Speaker 1: you know, why didn't the airports in the area that
Speaker 1: we're on the radio? When didn't they pick up operators
Speaker 1: in Oregon and Washington and Canada picking it? Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a good question. But was it only California, just only
Speaker 1: northern California maybe? Yeah, reminds me of Lost Boiler Area. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe the plane actually crashed in California. That's why they
Speaker 1: couldn't find it. They were way of course. Yeah that
Speaker 1: is a terrible yeah. Yeah, so our mystery. Then what
Speaker 1: happened to Bog's Beggett, Brown and Jones. Yeah, it sounds
Speaker 1: like a law firm. Huh. There are three possibilities excluding
Speaker 1: up in the aliens. Yeah. Um, you know, I'm also
Speaker 1: going to exclude the they went off to go start
Speaker 1: a new life somewhere else theory. You don't actually do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you totally keep going in there. Yeah, so three possibilities.
Speaker 1: Here's number one, the CIA or and or the FBI
Speaker 1: arranged to have a bomb planet on the airplane. That
Speaker 1: this is a lot of people believe that there was
Speaker 1: a bomb. Um some people believe that the CIA assassin
Speaker 1: wasn't not other than Bill Clinton. Is that real? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's real. I found it on at least two or
Speaker 1: three websites. Supposedly Clinton was a young man and he
Speaker 1: drove bogs to the airport to get on the plane
Speaker 1: that took him to Alaska, not the plane that went down. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody takes it takes us as Yeah, he drove him
Speaker 1: to the airport in Alaska and and just snuck a
Speaker 1: bomb in Texas or something like that. Weren't they the
Speaker 1: dollars airport? Dollars airports in New York? Right? And Dallas
Speaker 1: is Washington, Virginia. So Washington d C me no geography
Speaker 1: quite well, surrounding area. Yeah, I mean it's not in DC.
Speaker 1: It's got to be I'm thinking of Dallas Fort Worth. Then, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it. Just a little confused. Yeah, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I was a little confused as soon as I heard
Speaker 1: that Old Bill Clinton was response would explain why he
Speaker 1: was elected to isn't as payment? That's that's gotta be it.
Speaker 1: So he probably drove into the airport and says, hey,
Speaker 1: I just got a little part of the gift for
Speaker 1: you here. I don't want you to until you get
Speaker 1: to Juno, and don't mind the ticken. I have never
Speaker 1: heard your Bill Clinton impression, but it's pretty good. Thank you. So,
Speaker 1: so Clinton is the assassin? Which Clinton was the assassin? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The only thing that he has been able
Speaker 1: to assassinate that I've ever known of is his wife's
Speaker 1: dignity and his own character. Yeah, okay, but continue on
Speaker 1: with this. Okay, So where where the c A or
Speaker 1: FBI had a bomb planet on the plane? As I
Speaker 1: said earlier, he was pushing, supposedly pushing to reopen the
Speaker 1: investigation into the assassination, and he had to be silenced. Um,
Speaker 1: it's said, It's been said that Box was suspicious that
Speaker 1: there was CIA and or Cuban government involvement in the assassination. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you know that is the thing. Ok Yeah. An
Speaker 1: author named John H. Davis wrote a book about one
Speaker 1: of Bog's associates. I don't think I don't know how
Speaker 1: closely he was associated with this guy, but the guy,
Speaker 1: it was kind of a mafiosa sort of guy. And
Speaker 1: then he said that he wrote that Box was skeptical
Speaker 1: the FBI investigation as conclusions. He said also that years
Speaker 1: after the fact that one of Bog's former aids said, quote,
Speaker 1: Hale always returned to one thing. Hooverlied his eyes out
Speaker 1: to the commission on Oswald on Ruby on their friends,
Speaker 1: the bullets of the guns you name it unquote of
Speaker 1: course says it's just you know what, kind of like
Speaker 1: third hand kind of stuff kind of hearsay, yeah. Yeah. Alternatively,
Speaker 1: the FBI might have done it because Boggs disc jag
Speaker 1: or Hoover, as I said, he did, announced him and
Speaker 1: demanded his resignation in April. Possibility. Yeah, of course, Hoover
Speaker 1: died five months before the disappearance of the plane. But
Speaker 1: you never know. I mean, maybe he gave the order
Speaker 1: in the assassins, just waited until October because that was
Speaker 1: the propetious time to do it, because after all, Alaska
Speaker 1: and small airplanes don't really get along that well, even
Speaker 1: though if you have to happen to get around. I mean,
Speaker 1: they seem to disappear a hell of a lot up there,
Speaker 1: or crash or not disappear, but they crashed, they don't
Speaker 1: fare well. Yeah uh. And also bolstering the FBI theory,
Speaker 1: Nick Baggage, his son who was also named Nick Baggage,
Speaker 1: said in two thousand and eleven and then interview that
Speaker 1: the FBI knew where the down airplane was but didn't
Speaker 1: turn over the information to the coast Guard, and so
Speaker 1: the plane survivors were basically left to die in the wilderness.
Speaker 1: That's what he claimed. And yeah, I know, well, it's
Speaker 1: just I mean, I don't know. I usually when when
Speaker 1: the kids of the victims of things buy into these
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories, they champion the conspiracy. I had a kind
Speaker 1: of I don't know, like adds a little more to me.
Speaker 1: You know, they their parents pretty well, they would know
Speaker 1: if they had that sense of like that that was
Speaker 1: actually probably gonna happen to them or not. But obviously,
Speaker 1: I mean, like I don't think that Cokey Roberts thinks
Speaker 1: that just happened. So yeah, she's kind of the polar opposite.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's interesting. It's I don't know, but that's
Speaker 1: always interesting to me. Yeah, it's always I think, you know,
Speaker 1: especially once your parents or something like that, I mean,
Speaker 1: you want to want to be something more historically significant,
Speaker 1: and there's just gotten the crash. Yeah, but he said
Speaker 1: that they did it mainly to uh, I'm not so
Speaker 1: sure that he buys. He hasn't didn't really say anything
Speaker 1: about the whole uh JFK assassination thing. But he thought
Speaker 1: he thought the FBI just had the technology to find them,
Speaker 1: but it was new and classified, its super secret. They
Speaker 1: didn't want to give away their their sources by sense,
Speaker 1: so they basically chose to let these people all die,
Speaker 1: which I don't I don't believe in seventy two they
Speaker 1: had any sort of sort of super mystical It had
Speaker 1: to be a satellite. Yeah, I think about it. And
Speaker 1: it was looking up the satellite list that had been
Speaker 1: launched and were available at that time, and it didn't
Speaker 1: get an impression from anything that was out there that
Speaker 1: we had anything remotely capable of doing that unless the
Speaker 1: FBI had, you know, actually bugged in his bloodstream. Hail bogs.
Speaker 1: Think they put a little tracker chip in him that
Speaker 1: could be to know where he was at all times,
Speaker 1: to make sure he wasn't up to no good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that could be that technology existed then, Yeah, Yeah, well
Speaker 1: we had and we had we did have spy satellites
Speaker 1: and stuff, but you know, you kind of like they're
Speaker 1: not necessarily going to pass over that particular spot at
Speaker 1: that particular time. Yeah, and that and there, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: they might go over that spot once every now and
Speaker 1: again unless you want to change their change their orbit
Speaker 1: a bit, which they're kind of reluctant to do because
Speaker 1: they have limited fuel on board. I don't know why
Speaker 1: Google didn't get a picture of it. Uh yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: speaking of Google, can we talk about this whole the
Speaker 1: guy who said he knew the coordinates thing a little
Speaker 1: bit more or no? Because I used Google Transition, Yes,
Speaker 1: got it, because I I kind of I kind of
Speaker 1: went a little crazy on this this word problem that
Speaker 1: they gave us about how that heat where he said
Speaker 1: they knew where Boggs was, and there's some serious problems
Speaker 1: with it. And I'm gonna say at the outset that
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure the problems with it are that somebody
Speaker 1: did their quote unquote calculations. They did it on a
Speaker 1: paper map using a ruler and a pencil, and you know,
Speaker 1: doing the distance conversions from x amount of distance equels
Speaker 1: a mile. So their their scale is probably what screwed
Speaker 1: him up. If we go back to what this person said,
Speaker 1: it said from Juno, head west from Juno, which is
Speaker 1: the southernmost point of their route, because we're just north
Speaker 1: of it or north west of you know, well, the
Speaker 1: two hundred number two hundred blank in that has to
Speaker 1: be a low number. Okay, so it's two hundred and six, Well,
Speaker 1: that means it's gonna be like two six to put
Speaker 1: it around that glacier that he's talking about. But in
Speaker 1: a straight line. There's almost no land that that on
Speaker 1: the line of that they're running. So when it says
Speaker 1: follow that line, hit this this mile point, and then
Speaker 1: draw a line to the coast, well, I don't know
Speaker 1: what that line to the coast means. But then track
Speaker 1: that back north six point four three miles, Well that
Speaker 1: does put them completely in Basically, it puts them in
Speaker 1: the middle of what's the glacier there, the Mallas Spina glacier.
Speaker 1: That's the one that they reference, which is a Piedmont glacier,
Speaker 1: which is a weird glacier because it's kind of flat
Speaker 1: and from space it almost looks like somebody dropped a
Speaker 1: white drop of paint in blue the way it kind
Speaker 1: of echoes out. But it's a real flat area, so
Speaker 1: it would have been pretty easy for the search planes
Speaker 1: to find it because there's no major cavasses and crags
Speaker 1: and stuff in there. So a my first problem is
Speaker 1: is that the course that they the point that they
Speaker 1: call out on the course is over water. So it's
Speaker 1: hard to go to the coast because I infer it
Speaker 1: to head south from the line to coastline and then
Speaker 1: head north. But even if it's just heading directly north,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense. It's it's such an easy
Speaker 1: flat area to find somebody. So that's why I consider
Speaker 1: the whole thing just so badly done. And somebody who
Speaker 1: thought they knew what they were talking about be still
Speaker 1: a map and they were kind of a cook. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think the guy was just I think
Speaker 1: it was probably just because you know, I guess some
Speaker 1: guy wanted attention. Maybe I don't know, but I spent
Speaker 1: I spent way too much time on Google Earth trying
Speaker 1: to map out these coordinates, and just it's just a
Speaker 1: strange way to give the give the coordinates to the
Speaker 1: crash site. As you say, if they had crashed on
Speaker 1: that placier, then they're probably even if they're playing had
Speaker 1: fallen down a crevass, you'd see it. It's some nice,
Speaker 1: big long skid marks and a little bit of debreed
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So between the
Speaker 1: FBI and the CIA. I'm gonna go with the CIA,
Speaker 1: mainly because since they were employing Bill Clinton, that makes
Speaker 1: him an assassin and murderer, so that's kind of fun.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess we said he drove into the
Speaker 1: Dollas Airport, but he was nowhere near Alaska in the
Speaker 1: day that the plane took off. I think that Cloe
Speaker 1: can clear Clinton of this and a way, but maybe
Speaker 1: somebody else planning bomb on the on the plane and Anchorage,
Speaker 1: and it's always possible even if it wasn't Bill Clinton.
Speaker 1: But according to the National Transportation Safety Boards report, UH
Speaker 1: says probably not because at eight am that day, Don
Speaker 1: Jones took the plane to the refueling pitch at Anchorage
Speaker 1: International Airport. The witnesses there's said nothing was put on
Speaker 1: the plane except for gasoline, and after that Jones taxied
Speaker 1: the plane to a rap near the control tower where
Speaker 1: the three passengers got on, and witness there said that
Speaker 1: a small amount of baggage passenger baggage was also placed
Speaker 1: on the plane, but that was it, although of course
Speaker 1: there could have been a bomb in one of the bags. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I suppose, you know, I think the thing
Speaker 1: is John's was a kind of a cocky pilot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems like it. Well he he was no evidently
Speaker 1: their statements recorded where he would say he could fly
Speaker 1: through any condition. So that's that's a little bit that
Speaker 1: kind of makes me. Plus everything else that we've talked about,
Speaker 1: I really don't think that this is a c I,
Speaker 1: a FBI assassination job. You don't know, Well, there's not
Speaker 1: much in the way of that. And speaking of cockiness, besides,
Speaker 1: you're required on planes like this, we're required to carry
Speaker 1: not only the transmitter, the emergency transmitter, but you're required
Speaker 1: to carry all kinds of survival supplies, I mean a lot.
Speaker 1: And witness says that saw the plane before it took
Speaker 1: off said that they didn't see any containers containing survival supplies.
Speaker 1: You're supposed to have things like you're supposed to have
Speaker 1: a gun, two weeks worth of food for everybody on
Speaker 1: the plane, Uh, you know, heavy clothing and probably flare
Speaker 1: a gun, and and wool blankets, your fair repellent trans susmitters,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, you're supposed to have all kinds of
Speaker 1: stuff and probably and there was Yeah, apparently there was
Speaker 1: nothing on the plane according to witnesses that resembled the
Speaker 1: container full of survival supplies. Yeah, and so he left it.
Speaker 1: He left the survival supplies behind, and he left his
Speaker 1: emergency transmitter behind. So yeah, you're right, it was kind
Speaker 1: of a cocky guy. Was that on all planes? Joe?
Speaker 1: Was that in Alaska? No? Just in general? Is it
Speaker 1: just in Alaska that they're required to I think that's Alaska? Low? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it would actually be a good idea if
Speaker 1: you're flying anywhere in the lower forty eight to carry
Speaker 1: some survival supplies too, because just flying anywhere, yeah, because
Speaker 1: you're if you crash, there's a good chance you're going
Speaker 1: to crash in the middle of nowhere. So yeah, yuh,
Speaker 1: better be able to be prepared to survive. Um, let's
Speaker 1: go to another theory, uh, theory number two, which is
Speaker 1: at the plane just crashed, it wasn't bombed or anything
Speaker 1: like that. Back to Cokie Roberts, she said in two
Speaker 1: thousand four that her father actually had no problems with
Speaker 1: the Warren Commission's findings, and he, she said, he was
Speaker 1: also not pushing for the investigation to be reopened. So
Speaker 1: it turns out maybe some of that is not quite
Speaker 1: so true. Although I saw at least one guy on
Speaker 1: a website they called her a liar with an exclamation
Speaker 1: point to yeah I think it was yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: She later said in too she said that Boggs was
Speaker 1: skeptical the single bullet theory, but she also said that
Speaker 1: she believed that Lee Harvey Oswald did act alone and
Speaker 1: if Boggs was gonna be something different than she probably
Speaker 1: would have said something to her about that, and Hail
Speaker 1: Bogs never said anything to his daughter about that. Um
Speaker 1: I was Also in fourteen she said that she she
Speaker 1: here that the plane is at the bottom of Prince
Speaker 1: William Sound and that it will probably never be found. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because after all, this did this did take place in Alaska,
Speaker 1: and as we said, Alaska does not like plane no people,
Speaker 1: people and planes disappear all the time in Alaska. Uh
Speaker 1: So it's just not that unusual. And again, if they
Speaker 1: did go down because a bad weather or whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: you can actually crash your plane. I mean, Don Jones
Speaker 1: was a very experienced pilot, but even an experienced pilot,
Speaker 1: if you're getting a fog bank, they really lose your bearings.
Speaker 1: Next thing you know, you're flying upside down and maybe
Speaker 1: flying into the flying straight down and not realizing what
Speaker 1: you're doing, you know, And so when when you're not
Speaker 1: on instruments in this guy and he was not on instruments,
Speaker 1: it's easy to do that. Yeah. Well I also heard
Speaker 1: that there was I swear I read somewhere that the
Speaker 1: conditions were conducive to icing of the wings. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: did not have anything in the way of d icing
Speaker 1: equipment on the on the plane right, which again, if
Speaker 1: it's coal, it's low visibility and you're flying to your
Speaker 1: clouds and stuff like their wings are icing up, you
Speaker 1: may not realize how much altitude you're losing. Yeah, which,
Speaker 1: and then of course once you've got ice all over
Speaker 1: your wings, their new mobility is out the window. You're
Speaker 1: kind of host Yeah. Yeah, I think that Jones was
Speaker 1: aware of ice. Have I saying. I think he probably,
Speaker 1: if he was able to, would probably have tried to
Speaker 1: get out of the clouds, and so because that's that's
Speaker 1: where most of your ice comes from, I believe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the moisture in the clouds, So you probably tried to
Speaker 1: climb above the clouds. Probably we don't really know what
Speaker 1: he did. Unfortunately, ah see another theory, the theory number three,
Speaker 1: the pilot Don Jones was paid by the to land
Speaker 1: the plane that a remote airstrip where a hail box
Speaker 1: was taken prisoner and tortured and interrogated. Where did you
Speaker 1: find this? I made it up? But I mean realistically,
Speaker 1: I like the theory, you know, because it involves water
Speaker 1: boarding or whatever they did to him. Uh and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, if they didn't want to if they didn't
Speaker 1: want to kill him, it act it makes more sense
Speaker 1: to bribe the pilot and have him land the plane
Speaker 1: somewhere because if you blow the plane up with the bomb,
Speaker 1: well you don't know where the wreckage is going to
Speaker 1: end up. It could end up in the water, could
Speaker 1: end up on land where was found, and then it
Speaker 1: becomes obvious that the plane was blown up with the bomb.
Speaker 1: Although if you're the FBI, you probably would be taking
Speaker 1: you would be able to say, oh, terrorism, we got
Speaker 1: to take over the investigation, and then you know, quote
Speaker 1: unquote investor investigated and then say, oh, it was you
Speaker 1: know whatever the big group that we don't like at
Speaker 1: the time is. And everybody would say, oh, those guys
Speaker 1: we had reinforces are to do bad things to them,
Speaker 1: and then that's true. I guess it's also entirely I mean,
Speaker 1: if you want to go that route, it's also entirely
Speaker 1: possible that they could have a had a man on
Speaker 1: the ground, b had a transponder and fixed location that
Speaker 1: they knew it would go over and set the bomb
Speaker 1: off or see they could have had another plane following
Speaker 1: it to then blow it up and know where the
Speaker 1: debris went and then knowing exactly where to go to
Speaker 1: pick it up. That's true. I mean, that's the thing
Speaker 1: is that, Okay, if we're going to take this conspiracy
Speaker 1: to that level, let's not just presume that these guys
Speaker 1: are the messy jerks who leave their dirty dishes in
Speaker 1: the sink all night long. They go and clean it
Speaker 1: up right away, so they wouldn't know where it was at.
Speaker 1: They probably would, or they could have just I mean,
Speaker 1: if they knew the flight path and everything, and they
Speaker 1: knew basically then mostly it was gonna be over water,
Speaker 1: they could have just put a bomb in there with
Speaker 1: an altimeter trigger or a timer. Yeah, I think an
Speaker 1: altimeter trigger would work better. It depends on when you
Speaker 1: put the bomb in the plane. Like if you put
Speaker 1: it in like say, the night before, and that you
Speaker 1: probably want to have an altimeter trigger and even a
Speaker 1: time or you don't know, maybe the flight gets delayed,
Speaker 1: maybe they don't take off right away, and then you're
Speaker 1: kind of posed because they're sitting on the air stripped
Speaker 1: because it's frozen, and bomb goes off and then everybody
Speaker 1: knows what's going on. Yeah, well then you claim terrorism, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: security sweets bail proof. Even the Homeland security didn't exist
Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, it didn't. I know, I know,
Speaker 1: I know. Really, Homeland Security is doing such a great job.
Speaker 1: We're holding up my bag. I'm still alive, and I
Speaker 1: had them to thank for it. The n s A
Speaker 1: is nothing if not amazing. We love them, do the
Speaker 1: only great things. Oh, I'm seeing Devin wink at me,
Speaker 1: and she says that, yes, we love all of those
Speaker 1: government institutions them for keeping us safe and non infringing
Speaker 1: on anything. Ever, they did everything right, electronic bug underneath
Speaker 1: this table. We do it right, We did it well. Okay, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we convinced him. All right, all right, so
Speaker 1: I'm going to vote for the plane just crashed in water. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like sitting at the bottom of the ocean right now,
Speaker 1: although you never know it, maybe a crash in the
Speaker 1: glacier and it's gonna come popping out one end of
Speaker 1: it sooner or later. I'd be kind cool. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: entirely possible, because you know, the snow in Alaska is
Speaker 1: melting at record fast rates now, and things that have
Speaker 1: gone out and been buried in the snow in the
Speaker 1: last several hundred years we're gonna start showing up. So
Speaker 1: we may in the next decade find the Cessna. If
Speaker 1: it did indeed crash on land and get buried in
Speaker 1: a glacier, that would be cool that I'm guessing that
Speaker 1: since this route was mainly over water, like about over water,
Speaker 1: I think they went down to the drink, and since
Speaker 1: sea levels are rising, we won't find it. So yes, no, never,
Speaker 1: you never know, somebody might stumble upon it for one
Speaker 1: reason or another. I mean, it's it's not necessarily impossible.
Speaker 1: I mean, technology is marching on. We're finding ways to
Speaker 1: you know, get Google is mapping the bottom of the ocean,
Speaker 1: and they will find it for us. They might. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're yeah, we're developing technologies that allow us to really
Speaker 1: accurately scanned the bottom of the ocean. We're finding Rex,
Speaker 1: did you hear about that, gal, and they found out
Speaker 1: the coast of Colombia and they don't know who it
Speaker 1: belongs to. Now, Yeah, they're trying to figure that out,
Speaker 1: like seven billion dollars worth of treasure or something like
Speaker 1: staggering about the treasure. Yeah yeah, So I wish I
Speaker 1: could have a chunk of that too. We should just
Speaker 1: discover it for ourselves. Yeah, yeah, no, I because you guys,
Speaker 1: I know care. I like the conspiracy theories on this one.
Speaker 1: They're fine, Yeah, they're fine. I think I think I
Speaker 1: think he was murdered. I think Hale Boggs was murdered. Okay,
Speaker 1: the FBI, not the CIA. You think the FBI did it, Yeah, because,
Speaker 1: like I said, the CIA can't operate on US soil.
Speaker 1: Yeah okay. And then did they threaten their bribe Cokey Roberts.
Speaker 1: She just doesn't know. Why would she know? How would
Speaker 1: you know? Yeah? As well as that's true, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: they brainwashed, this is my that's ridiculous. Look, by the way,
Speaker 1: is that what that is? Well? Cokey did actually disappear
Speaker 1: at one point in the mid seventies. Dais believe that
Speaker 1: she was sent off to a remote location and brainwashed
Speaker 1: and false memories were implanted. See it's perfect. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: there you go. Yeah, come on, let's let's keep going here.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else do about the story? Joe, not really, Uh,
Speaker 1: there's so anyway. So Devin thinks the FBI idea killed them.
Speaker 1: I think the plane just crashed. What do you think?
Speaker 1: Do you think the plane just crashed? Yeah, that's most likely. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, well another mystery solved. Right on. Alright, now
Speaker 1: we've come to your favorite part of the podcast where
Speaker 1: I tell you some stuff that you already know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you if you want to find us down letter, episodes, whatever,
Speaker 1: leave comments. So we have a website called Thinking Sideways
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. We also have links, so we will
Speaker 1: post some links to some kind of like websites. They
Speaker 1: are kind of like what tinfoil hat kind of websites. Well,
Speaker 1: it depends on the ones that you select. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: without christ for our on iTunes, so you can subscribe,
Speaker 1: You can leave us a rating and a review. We
Speaker 1: really like that. You can stream us from anywhere. We're
Speaker 1: on face Book, So Thinking Sideways on Facebook, don't try
Speaker 1: to friend us, but we do have a group, so
Speaker 1: you want to join the group or the like the page. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like the page or both. Yeah, Twitter, we're thinking
Speaker 1: sideways without the g um and uh for email, send
Speaker 1: us an email. We're thinking sideways podcast at gmail dot
Speaker 1: com and send us thoughtful praising emails or even if
Speaker 1: you have criticisms. We've gotten a few criticisms from people,
Speaker 1: but they're they're often constructive, sometimes offen like you know, batty,
Speaker 1: but usually constructive. Uh, we are only the way you
Speaker 1: were trying to phrase that was not always constructive, not
Speaker 1: always usually sometimes you know what else, We have a subreddit, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: we have a subreadit. Uh. We are also on patreon
Speaker 1: dot com. That's uh Patreon if you haven't heard about
Speaker 1: it before. Is uh the site where you can go
Speaker 1: and you can pledge a certain amount of money, like
Speaker 1: you know, a bucket episode or whatever. It's totally optional,
Speaker 1: but it helps us out because we just had to
Speaker 1: pay for yeah. Yeah, we just had to pay a
Speaker 1: bunch of money for our web hosting. Yeah, and uh so,
Speaker 1: but this is totally optional, is if you because I,
Speaker 1: you know, I can't shame anybody or anything like that,
Speaker 1: because I there's a lot of websites I go to
Speaker 1: all the time, so there's a lot of campaigning, and
Speaker 1: I have been clicking the clothes button myself, so I
Speaker 1: completely understand people going the free round because I do
Speaker 1: it myself. I use Wikipedia all the time. They're begging
Speaker 1: for money right now, and I'm totally ignoring them. Yeah yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: Well I guess that's it. You guys have any further thoughts? No? No,
Speaker 1: al right, Well tell you next week then Tata everybody,
Speaker 1: Oh bye, guys, bitter everyone,