WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Disappearance of Hale Boggs 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.200 Thinking Sideways is not supported by ego terrorism. Instead, it's 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.119 supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:10.160 Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:21.119 and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:32.080 stories of things we simply don't know the answer to. Hi. There, 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.519 Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe your 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.720 host this week, joined by my co hosts Den and Steve. 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:44.000 All Right, well, you guys want to solve a really 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.559 groovy mystery. Yeah, we're we at least poles in it. Yeah, 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.199 this is, um, this is a kind of an interesting one. 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.160 It's not a really huge one, but people are still 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.600 chewing over it years after it happened. Yeah. This this 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.280 is because this is uh, this is tied into another big, 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:03.640 giant mystery, and so I'm pretty sure that's why people 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:07.840 are so intrigued by it. The other one is, of course, 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.040 the assassination of JFK. I'm sure most of you have 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:16.319 heard about. Yeah, so explaining to second this ties in, uh, 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.640 we are talking this week about the mysterious disappearance of 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:24.200 Congressman Hail Boggs in nineteen seventy two, not Hailbop not 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:33.679 hail bop comment many, yeah, Hailbogs. So briefly, what happened 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.199 is that Hail Boggs was in Alaska campaigning for another 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:41.560 congressman named Nick Baggage. Since Hail Boggs was the he 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.880 was the majority leader in the House and so he 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.080 was expected to go do campaigning for some of the 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.560 other candidates. Baggage was in a tight race, so he 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.639 was off. He was there headed for a fundraiser in Juneo. 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.680 They were Democrats, Yeah, yeah, And they got on an 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.320 assessment not three ten six Ceder plane in Anchorage along 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:04.400 with the pilot, John Jones and Baggage's assistant Russell Brown. 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.760 They were headed from Anchorage to Juno for a campaign fundraiser, 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:11.799 and long story short, the plane never made it to 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:18.520 Juno and the wreckage was never found. It's got vanished. Yeah. First, 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:22.160 a little background on our subject. Thomas Hale Boggs was 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.120 first elected to the House in nineteen forty. Then he 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.639 lost his re election bid in nineteen two. So he 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:30.880 decided to go join the navy. And so you want 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:32.320 to join the Navy and did a little fight in 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.560 World War Two. It was a very patriotic thing to 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.240 do with. Yeah, yeah, a lot of a lot of 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.160 people did it, and for our listeners, so they know 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.880 why I was just giggling in the background. Our notes 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:47.440 say that he was de elected, I'd say that, yeah, yeah, 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.600 he was de selected there and he elected, and then 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.160 after World War Two he made a come back in 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:56.519 ninety six and course yeah, yeah, he's won't served in 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:58.560 the war. That's got to boost your cred There's a 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.440 bunch of guys who came back from the war and 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.440 got right into office using that platform. I don't I 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.520 don't know that Box was a war hero exactly, but 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:07.880 he did his bit, you know, and that sometimes it's 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.680 all it takes. Yeah, absolutely he was. By the time 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.360 he disappeared, he was House Majority leaders. I mentioned he 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.000 was next in line for the speakership. And some of 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.480 you may have heard of his daughter, Cokie Roberts, who 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.160 was with NPR and also I think with ABC News 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.560 and yeah, yeah, I like listening to her. Yeah, she 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.960 still got a great voice. Yeah, she still gets asked 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.119 questions about her dad too. Bet her dad's disappearance. You know, people, 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.440 just like I said, people are still chewing over this one. Yeah, 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.600 Another thing about hail Box that's interesting is that he 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:42.360 served on the President's Commission on the Assassination of John Fitzgerald. 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:45.440 Kennedy also noticed a Warran commission because it was headed 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:50.480 by Earl Warren. Box reportedly was not happy. This is rumor, 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.080 has it not happy with the actual results of the 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:59.280 Warrant commission. Yeah. Reportedly, he also reportedly spoke with Jim Garrison. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.680 You may have heard of. Kevin Costner played him in 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:07.360 Oliver Stone's movie JFK Oh. Yeah, Jim Jim Garrison was 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:11.640 a New Orleans District attorney. Box apparently spilled his guest 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.200 to Jim Jim Garrison and gave him enough information to 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.560 cause Garrison to indict and prosecute a New Orleans businessman 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:20.960 named Clay Shaw, who if you haven't heard of, you know, 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.560 watch the movie JFK or maybe I think he was 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.920 played by Tommy Lee Jones in the movie. It's been 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:28.960 so long since I've seen that. I don't even want 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:33.039 to hazard guests, but I didn't see it. Yeah, could 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.120 you not watch the movie? I know, I don't know. 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.799 I'm sorry. Do my research for this. Yeah. The rumor 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.280 was is that that Garrison had this, he had a 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:42.839 witness and he said he went to a party, like 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.520 some sort of cocktail party where Clay Shaw and some 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:50.000 other associates met with none other than Lee Lee Harvey 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:54.680 Oswald and a lot of the assassination of JFK. And 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.480 so he took the case to court and I think 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.880 the I don't remember how long the trial actually went 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.040 on for a while, and he made his case and 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.200 then the Jerry came back in the quitted show after 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:12.880 after deliberating for less than an hour. Out. Yeah, his 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:19.800 career didn't go that's kind of humiliating. Yeah, yeah, that's 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:23.120 because that's a major trial. So why did he spill 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.200 this guesst Garrison? If he did well? Again, as I said, 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.320 it's been rumored he wasn't satisfied with the verdict of 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.720 the Warrant Commission, and it's also been rumored that he 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.120 wanted to reopen the assassination investigation. Let's be fair, he 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.960 wouldn't be the only person that's true. Yeah, I was 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.400 gonna say, listen, this is the thing that is so 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:46.360 funny when you read about about Hillbogs is everybody makes 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:52.320 it out that he was running around Washington constantly screaming 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.400 what a cock up the Warrant Commission was and how 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.440 wrong it was. But you've got to look at the 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:02.320 dates here. The Warrant Commission ended in sixty four. He 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.760 died in seventy two, right, yeah, okay, years later. That's 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.479 eight years. If I don't like something over the course 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:13.160 of eight years, I'm probably gonna make some disparaging remarks 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.839 to it. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna that I 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:20.920 am so flaming angry at it as the way that 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.440 you you find it in a lot of the accounting. Well, 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.039 I don't know if that's true about you or not, 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.080 because I've heard you get that angry time, but not 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.720 eight years later. But not about the Warrant Commission. That's 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:34.719 not about the work. I was fine when I was 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.720 on the Warrant Commission. It was fine. You were satisfied 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.320 with the results, yea, now they The thing about it 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.520 is is like there's there's evidence both reactions. Yeah. No, 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:50.479 I'm just just the way it is phrased and put 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.240 two readers on the internet is why I want to 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:55.360 bring that up. Oh yeah, if you if you read 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.440 all this stuff in the internet, he was telling anybody 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.839 and everybody about you know, massive lize the FBI and 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.279 how you know, and how and how their investigation was 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.320 all cocked up and everything, and uh, you know, but 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:08.920 we'll talk a little bit more about that later. I 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:10.880 didn't want to say. Regarding the warr And Commission, a 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.280 lot of the people that served on it really actually, 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.000 we're kind of reluctant to and a couple of them 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.119 even pointed out that it's really not going to settle 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.560 the issue, will probably just make things worse. And that's 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.480 really basically what happened with the warr Commission. From the start. 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:26.560 It was everybody was a legend, cover up, cover up, 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:30.840 you know, and so why you even bother? Yeah, absolutely true. Yeah. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.280 But anyway, all this, all this talk about reopening the 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.680 investigation has led to speculations still going on today that 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:40.200 Boggs disappearance was not an accident and he was murdered 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.240 to head off a new investigation. So they didn't do 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.320 a very good job. People are still poking around. And 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:49.800 then they did not nail the lid shot on that 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:54.080 one very well. Yeah, I think they missed completely knocked 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:58.880 the lid off. And yeah, yeah, they just stirred up 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.280 a Hornet's nest here. So there's a lot of talk 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.720 about the you know, the elements of the CIA and 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:06.800 murdered him. It's also talking about maybe it was the 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.080 FBI that did him in. The CIA couldn't have murdered him, 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.520 you don't think, so, I don't think. I don't know. 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.840 Every time somebody's like, oh, the CIA murdered this guy, 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.960 but did it happen on US soil, then it probably 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:22.800 wasn't the CIA thinks, right, think isn't that the thing? 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.640 The CIA can't operate on US soil without a different 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:31.120 department quote unquote heading it. Well, yeah, but you know, 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:32.920 if they're if they're doing something as the illegal is 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.719 murdering people, they probably don't care or you just got 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:38.480 the FBI to do it for you. There pretty much 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.439 and the FBI don't really like each other. That's true. Yeah, 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.160 I don't know. That's just always my initial reaction when 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:48.400 I hear things like that it's finally coming out on 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.880 the show. I tend to be a little skeptical about 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:54.480 that whole thing. Might when I take of the CIA, 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.080 I don't think of cloak and dagger, and I don't 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.000 think of special black ops, and you know, wet work 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.680 and stuff like that. I think of just blistering incompetence. 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:09.040 That's what the lake. Yeah maybe he did it. Oh yeah, 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.839 No more talk about those guys. Okay, I want to 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.640 stay alive. Uh So we should fraably get back to 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:16.480 hail Bogs. Yah. Let's talk to hail Box here for 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.319 a minute. The hail Box actually, speaking of the FBI, 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.360 had a good relationship with Jager Hoover. I read to 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.000 a bit of his FBI files and there were a 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:27.840 lot of there was a lot of correspondence back and 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.959 forth on various issues, and hail Bogs was constantly praising 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.160 Hoover and the FBI and the Audiadiada, which is so 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.079 counter to some of the louder websites that you find 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.280 on this story, and it's so funny. Well, things did 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.360 change a little bit. Things did change, yeah, and by 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:48.679 by April nineteen seventy one. In April nineteen seventy one, 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.400 Bogs claimed that he discovered a bug and his telephone 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:53.440 at home and he thought it was the FBI to 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.880 put it there. And then in maybe two weeks later, 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.400 he gave a speech before Congress in which he called 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:03.640 for Jaker, who were to resign. Yeah, and he was. 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.920 He was drawing like parallels between Jacker Hooger and the 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:11.319 FBI and the Soviets and stuff like this and all 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.280 this stuff. Yeah, yeah, Did you did either of you 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:18.360 listen to the because obviously Nixon wasn't very happy about that. 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.439 Did you listen to the tapes the from Nixon when 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.439 he was talking to I think it was, yeah, Jerry 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.679 because he called him Jerry, so it was for when 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.240 he was talking to him, and it's They always say, well, 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.560 then this is proof that Nixon wanted him out, and 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:38.680 Nixon's not happy with him. But I had never heard 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.160 any of the tapes from Nixon before, and it is 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.800 the weirdest conversation in the world to listen to. Did 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:50.560 either of you get it? Is? I have never heard 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:55.600 such a leading conversation. In other words, Nixon would start 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.640 talking and there would be a question in there, and 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:02.080 then Ford would start, you know, oh yes or oh yes, sir, 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.240 oh yes, sir to answer the question and make him 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:06.880 feel better, and then he would just ride over him 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:08.840 and then he would oh, okay, well I gotta let 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:10.480 you go. I gotta go, and then he'd do it 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.240 all over again. It was the weirdest thing in the 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.520 world to listen to. And I didn't know why everybody 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.440 made such a fuss about it. It really was just 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.160 I don't think that guy should have done that, And 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.120 I think we got a problem. So you should have 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.880 somebody look into this. Okay, thanks by got a problem 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:33.120 with Boggs, a problem with with Hoover, with Bosh, Yeah, 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:37.080 with Bogs and everything he was saying against Hoover. Yeah. Yeah, 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.760 And I know that Nixon was not about to touch Hoover. 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:44.200 I mean, you know a story nobody. Yeah, Hoover was untouchable. Yeah, 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:49.120 he's got his own damn. Yeah, seriously, and he uh 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:50.959 he had the goods on everybody, the rumor has and 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.680 so yeah, everybody was afraid to go after Hohoover. This 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:55.319 is why his grave is hidden, because it's all in 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.920 his coffin. Yeah, secrets. Ye. I would love to get 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.160 my hands on his files. So cool, you and me both. 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.719 Yeah anyway, Yeah, so something changed boxes mind about j 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.960 Edgar Um. Now back to our faithful plane ride. The morning. 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.760 It was the morning of October six, nineteen seventy two. 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.880 The weather was so so it's fog, low clouds, a 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:21.760 little drizzle, you remember I was there. Yeah, yeah, and uh. 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.960 There was a company called pan Alaska that was only 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.600 a guy named Don Jones who piloted this this plane 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:29.959 that was the plane was one of their planes. It's Jones. 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.679 It's in case somebody's going to go out in google 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:37.760 it Z. It's j O and Z, which isn't exactly 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.880 the intuitive spelling of the word. Yeah, I've heard it 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.199 pronounced John's as well. Yeah. I was just about to 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.880 say it could be Johns, I don't know, or or 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:50.240 Juan's yawns. But it's Jon Jones. Now it could be 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.800 John Z for all we know, but for our purposes 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.160 we'll just call him Jones. His flight plan basically was 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.040 that they were going to the town of Yakutat and 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:02.120 probably this meant that pronouncing that, But they're going by 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.040 via airway V three seventeen, which is a flight route. 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.000 It's a flight route. Yeah, yeah, and uh and from 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:13.800 and once they got to Yakutut, then yak Yakutat, they 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:15.680 would go on a straight line to Juno. From there, 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.040 it was supposed to be about it about a three 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.319 and a half hour trip. So the route goes southeast 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.520 from Ancoras to what's called Portage Pass through the mountains, 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.120 and then it veers leftward a bit and goes pretty 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.360 much more or less straight to Yakutat, and then from 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.880 there it was to not just just a little bit 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.280 right ward carries on to Juneo, but it leaves to 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:39.760 the V seventeen flight path. So it's pretty much overland. No, no, 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.920 it's mostly over water. Mostly over water. That's that's actually 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.520 you have the I've got a map of it. Yeah, 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:48.480 so what you're looking at it. It's funny is that 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:53.000 I had looked up what the current normal route is 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:58.000 between the two cities. Yeah, and most commercial airlines today 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:02.360 actually take an arc between the two and they stay 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.200 inland for most of that trip. So it was really 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.600 interesting when I saw this that it was actually but 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.839 it's on the coastline. Over water, but on the coastline. Yeah, 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.559 that's pretty much. Yeah. So yeah, it takes off, goes 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.760 to Portage Pass and then heads off across Pritts Williams 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.200 Sound and then you know, it's mostly over water, but 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.920 it's it's not that far off the coast, so if 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:25.280 you get a little bit of trouble, maybe you can 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.800 find the innikulated dry land before you crash. The water 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.360 is cold, it be hard, Yeah, it would suck either way. Yeah, 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.560 Don Jones, the pilot said that he was going to 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.120 fly under visual flight rules. What does that mean? The 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.240 visual flight rules means that it's that that's what you 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:42.920 do when the weather it's clear enough that you can 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.720 see all around you. And and then instrument flight rules 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.360 are when when conditions are very limited visibility, then you're 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.360 supposed to be able to fly by instruments instead of 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:54.320 just by using your just fly by side or fly 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.560 by instrument. He was doing fly by sight, yeah, he was. Yeah, 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:00.920 and you know, kind of foggy cloud weather and he 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.080 was of course he was qualified to do both, right 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.440 he was. Yeah. I mean he's this guy had like 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.440 seventeen thousand hours of flight experience. That's it. I think 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.440 that's probably an important thing to mention as well, because 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.480 it's not Yeah, and so I don't know if he 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.600 was just getting cocky or what, but yeah, he But 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.320 the NTSB investigated this and wrote a report in nineteen 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.480 seventy three, that's when they released it. Anyway, those uninitiated 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:33.240 TSB National Transportation Safety Board. That's it listens about that. 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:35.320 I'm thank you for saying that, because I read it 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.240 and I was like, oh, I know what that is, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.480 and then just continued months. Good call. Yeah, okay, it's 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.440 but according to their report quote the weather conditions along 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.240 the proposed route, we're not conducive to flight under visual 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:52.280 flight rules criteria unquote. Yeah, but anyway, that's what they did. 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.479 They took off at nine am. Last communication with anchorage 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.640 tower was at nine oh nine am, and reportedly they 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.280 disap as they were approaching the Chugach Mountain Range. I 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.600 hope I'm pronouncing that right. Probably not, so the plant 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:08.880 didn't even make it to Yakoo, tad All. An interesting 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.720 factory about the Chugach Mountains is that they get more 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.000 snowfall than any other place in the world. What they do, 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:24.240 annual average snowfall is si So if they're playing did 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.400 happen to crash in the in the in those mountains, well, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.160 it's not a surprised. I never found that. That absolutely 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:34.600 is for our not American everybody else who uses the 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:45.080 metric system metrified, that's fifteen point to five. Yeah, so 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:51.280 that's not nothing. It's not a lot of snow. You 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.720 can make an awesome. Snowman really big one, yeah, or 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.200 a lot of them. Snowman army, Yeah, would be great. 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.680 Give them a little hats, send them marching on anchor 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:07.560 don't watch Dr Who. I remember that episode they have 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.160 testy little teeth that they have actual carnivorous snowman or something. 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:13.840 I saw that one they did. I like it. Back 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.280 where we are we Yeah, So the plane was supposed 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:18.960 to arrive in Juneo at twelve thirty PM. At one 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.359 fifteen it was reported overdue. So the US Air Force 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:24.840 Rescue Coordination Center checked with all the air fields that 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:28.320 were anywhere near the plane's flight path, and nobody had 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.920 seen or heard anything from the plane, so that he 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.159 didn't make an emergency landing anywhere. And they were in 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.040 a six You said it was a six seeded Cessna. Yeah, 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.119 twin engine Cessna with six seeds. I am never going 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:44.400 to get an as Sessa. Yeah right, yeah, yeah, they diverted. 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.080 There was already an an airborne HC one thirty plane 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:49.879 up in the air, so they diverted that to go 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.159 look for the plane, and of course they brought in 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.000 lots more resources. This was one of the biggest searches 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:59.200 ever they spent thirty nine days looking for theseus I 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:04.040 guess you will. Yeah, yeah. Uh So the planes helicopters, 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.600 both government owned in private, and they served s thousands 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:13.119 of square miles of land and also Coastguard cutters along 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:17.680 with merchant marine vessels and fishing vessels search Prince William Sound, 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:21.000 the Gulf of Alaska and the Icy Straits area around Juneau, 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.159 and they found nothing, not even a bit of wreckage 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:26.240 floating in the water. Nothing. And then an interesting little 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.520 side side. Some people have made a lot of this 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.399 like they have. In October eighteenth, nineteen seventy two, the 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.400 fbis Los Angeles office got a call from a guy. 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:36.960 And I've heard this two ways. One was the FBI 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:38.280 I got a call from the guy, and the animal 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.520 was that this guy called the Long Beach Coast Guard Office. Yeah. 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:44.879 I have actually seen it both ways, now that you 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.119 say that. Yeah. And so this guy claimed work for 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:52.320 a company that specialized in quote surveillance technologies unquote, and 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.840 that they had located the plane via either some sort 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.960 of radio transmission or via the transmission from its emergency 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.280 location transmitter. Because most planes carry the fact that they 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.640 all carry the days today they all do. They didn't 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:08.520 carryhim in those days necessarily. This actually, this crash is 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:13.440 why all planes now have HE transponders in them, which 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:17.119 are really really effective, as we know from recent crashes. Yeah, 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.040 they're very helpful in finding crashes. They are kind of 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.679 helpful usually. The first time I ever saw when I 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:25.840 was in a little two seater sessment with this guy 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:30.480 that I knew, yeah, I was incess. I am like, 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.600 actually this guy was. I really did kind of take 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:34.320 my life in my hands because this guy was actually 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.840 a fairly novice pilot and he wanted to go for 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:39.640 and and so we rented this plane and took off 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.160 from Vancouver, Washington and want to flew around not Saint 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:44.080 Helen's cannon came back and that's when I know that 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.640 I saw my first emergency transit. Emergency transmitter and says 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.080 it looks like like a walkie talkie mounted in a 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.719 really heavy duty bracket towards the back of the plane, 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.040 and it's got a tagle switch on the top of it, 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:57.560 and there's a little rail and it's got this heavy 0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.000 weight on it. So the whole idea is when I 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.200 was plane goes Chris Smack action to something that heavyweight's 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.399 gonna go back forward and toggle that switch. Very simple, 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.840 you know, Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, but yeah, and 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.440 under Alaska law, you were required to have some sort 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:15.639 of emergency transmitter if you didn't have one mounted in 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:17.560 your plane, and then you could have a portable unit 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.399 with with the pilot so you could do that. So 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:24.840 Alaska did require them in this particular case. Just so 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.480 over so I remember that that's two days after the 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.320 crash that that guy called. Oh yeah, yeah, that's yeah, 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.719 back to that until totally got off the track. That's okay, 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.040 it is, yeah, two days yeah, so two days after 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:42.320 the crash or two days after the disappearance. Yeah, that's 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.480 when he called. And then um, yeah, so this guy 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.199 and he gave the coordinates of the crash site and 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.639 although he didn't really give the coordinates as in ladder 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.480 price precise latitude and longitude. Instead he gave these really 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:56.959 strange directions. Yeah. Yeah. He also said that there were 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.040 two people still alive there. He said, you know how 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:00.919 he would know that, Well, that's kind of what I'm 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:03.360 wondering too, because you know, then it must have neces 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:05.720 sort of radio transmission. But what I don't understand is 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.159 how it is that nobody else heard this? Yeah, or 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:11.320 maybe they were doing like a flyover thermal. In the 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:17.560 more real websites that you see, they say that at 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:21.280 the time, the U. S. Government had the ability to 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:25.960 actually track individual people and could pick up some kind 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:30.800 of special radio and I don't know, I I don't 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.159 understand it because it's really kind of fringe. E. It 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.600 was his it was his fillings anyway, it was their 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.159 electrical magnetic field. Everybody, they could track you by your 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.840 personal electromagnetic field because what it was, and that they 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:48.000 had the technology to do it, but they couldn't reveal that. 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:50.800 So of course, whenever anybody said, well, how do you 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:54.240 know that? But I can't tell you that? Or who 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.600 do you work for? I can't tell you that because 0:21:56.600 --> 0:22:00.400 technically it's a government institution that he works for. It 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:05.120 was the goofiest thing if you and you have the 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:09.840 what he said, yes and that the directions right, Yes, yes, 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:14.560 is our our highly highly reliable sources. They call him 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:17.479 the FBI. I think they called him that. But okay, 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:21.439 so here's how it goes. The it's is draw a 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:25.240 straight line from Anchorage to Juno Head west from JUNO 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:29.720