1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by ego terrorism. Instead, it's 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,119 Speaker 1: supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know 5 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: stories of things we simply don't know the answer to. Hi. There, 6 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe your 7 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: host this week, joined by my co hosts Den and Steve. 8 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: All Right, well, you guys want to solve a really 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: groovy mystery. Yeah, we're we at least poles in it. Yeah, 10 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: this is, um, this is a kind of an interesting one. 11 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: It's not a really huge one, but people are still 12 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: chewing over it years after it happened. Yeah. This this 13 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: is because this is uh, this is tied into another big, 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: giant mystery, and so I'm pretty sure that's why people 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: are so intrigued by it. The other one is, of course, 16 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: the assassination of JFK. I'm sure most of you have 17 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: heard about. Yeah, so explaining to second this ties in, uh, 18 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: we are talking this week about the mysterious disappearance of 19 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: Congressman Hail Boggs in nineteen seventy two, not Hailbop not 20 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: hail bop comment many, yeah, Hailbogs. So briefly, what happened 21 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 1: is that Hail Boggs was in Alaska campaigning for another 22 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: congressman named Nick Baggage. Since Hail Boggs was the he 23 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: was the majority leader in the House and so he 24 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: was expected to go do campaigning for some of the 25 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: other candidates. Baggage was in a tight race, so he 26 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,639 Speaker 1: was off. He was there headed for a fundraiser in Juneo. 27 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: They were Democrats, Yeah, yeah, And they got on an 28 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: assessment not three ten six Ceder plane in Anchorage along 29 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: with the pilot, John Jones and Baggage's assistant Russell Brown. 30 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: They were headed from Anchorage to Juno for a campaign fundraiser, 31 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: and long story short, the plane never made it to 32 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: Juno and the wreckage was never found. It's got vanished. Yeah. First, 33 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: a little background on our subject. Thomas Hale Boggs was 34 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: first elected to the House in nineteen forty. Then he 35 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: lost his re election bid in nineteen two. So he 36 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: decided to go join the navy. And so you want 37 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: to join the Navy and did a little fight in 38 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: World War Two. It was a very patriotic thing to 39 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: do with. Yeah, yeah, a lot of a lot of 40 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: people did it, and for our listeners, so they know 41 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: why I was just giggling in the background. Our notes 42 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: say that he was de elected, I'd say that, yeah, yeah, 43 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: he was de selected there and he elected, and then 44 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: after World War Two he made a come back in 45 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 1: ninety six and course yeah, yeah, he's won't served in 46 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: the war. That's got to boost your cred There's a 47 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: bunch of guys who came back from the war and 48 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: got right into office using that platform. I don't I 49 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: don't know that Box was a war hero exactly, but 50 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: he did his bit, you know, and that sometimes it's 51 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: all it takes. Yeah, absolutely he was. By the time 52 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: he disappeared, he was House Majority leaders. I mentioned he 53 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: was next in line for the speakership. And some of 54 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: you may have heard of his daughter, Cokie Roberts, who 55 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: was with NPR and also I think with ABC News 56 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, I like listening to her. Yeah, she 57 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: still got a great voice. Yeah, she still gets asked 58 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,119 Speaker 1: questions about her dad too. Bet her dad's disappearance. You know, people, 59 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: just like I said, people are still chewing over this one. Yeah, 60 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: Another thing about hail Box that's interesting is that he 61 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: served on the President's Commission on the Assassination of John Fitzgerald. 62 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: Kennedy also noticed a Warran commission because it was headed 63 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: by Earl Warren. Box reportedly was not happy. This is rumor, 64 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: has it not happy with the actual results of the 65 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: Warrant commission. Yeah. Reportedly, he also reportedly spoke with Jim Garrison. 66 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: You may have heard of. Kevin Costner played him in 67 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: Oliver Stone's movie JFK Oh. Yeah, Jim Jim Garrison was 68 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: a New Orleans District attorney. Box apparently spilled his guest 69 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: to Jim Jim Garrison and gave him enough information to 70 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: cause Garrison to indict and prosecute a New Orleans businessman 71 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: named Clay Shaw, who if you haven't heard of, you know, 72 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: watch the movie JFK or maybe I think he was 73 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: played by Tommy Lee Jones in the movie. It's been 74 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: so long since I've seen that. I don't even want 75 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: to hazard guests, but I didn't see it. Yeah, could 76 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: you not watch the movie? I know, I don't know. 77 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,799 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Do my research for this. Yeah. The rumor 78 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: was is that that Garrison had this, he had a 79 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: witness and he said he went to a party, like 80 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: some sort of cocktail party where Clay Shaw and some 81 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: other associates met with none other than Lee Lee Harvey 82 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: Oswald and a lot of the assassination of JFK. And 83 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: so he took the case to court and I think 84 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: the I don't remember how long the trial actually went 85 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: on for a while, and he made his case and 86 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: then the Jerry came back in the quitted show after 87 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: after deliberating for less than an hour. Out. Yeah, his 88 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: career didn't go that's kind of humiliating. Yeah, yeah, that's 89 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: because that's a major trial. So why did he spill 90 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: this guesst Garrison? If he did well? Again, as I said, 91 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: it's been rumored he wasn't satisfied with the verdict of 92 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: the Warrant Commission, and it's also been rumored that he 93 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: wanted to reopen the assassination investigation. Let's be fair, he 94 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't be the only person that's true. Yeah, I was 95 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: gonna say, listen, this is the thing that is so 96 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: funny when you read about about Hillbogs is everybody makes 97 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: it out that he was running around Washington constantly screaming 98 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: what a cock up the Warrant Commission was and how 99 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: wrong it was. But you've got to look at the 100 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: dates here. The Warrant Commission ended in sixty four. He 101 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: died in seventy two, right, yeah, okay, years later. That's 102 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: eight years. If I don't like something over the course 103 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: of eight years, I'm probably gonna make some disparaging remarks 104 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: to it. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna that I 105 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: am so flaming angry at it as the way that 106 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: you you find it in a lot of the accounting. Well, 107 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true about you or not, 108 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: because I've heard you get that angry time, but not 109 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: eight years later. But not about the Warrant Commission. That's 110 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: not about the work. I was fine when I was 111 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: on the Warrant Commission. It was fine. You were satisfied 112 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: with the results, yea, now they The thing about it 113 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: is is like there's there's evidence both reactions. Yeah. No, 114 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: I'm just just the way it is phrased and put 115 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: two readers on the internet is why I want to 116 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: bring that up. Oh yeah, if you if you read 117 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: all this stuff in the internet, he was telling anybody 118 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: and everybody about you know, massive lize the FBI and 119 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: how you know, and how and how their investigation was 120 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: all cocked up and everything, and uh, you know, but 121 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit more about that later. I 122 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: didn't want to say. Regarding the warr And Commission, a 123 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: lot of the people that served on it really actually, 124 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: we're kind of reluctant to and a couple of them 125 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,119 Speaker 1: even pointed out that it's really not going to settle 126 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: the issue, will probably just make things worse. And that's 127 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: really basically what happened with the warr Commission. From the start. 128 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: It was everybody was a legend, cover up, cover up, 129 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, and so why you even bother? Yeah, absolutely true. Yeah. 130 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: But anyway, all this, all this talk about reopening the 131 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: investigation has led to speculations still going on today that 132 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: Boggs disappearance was not an accident and he was murdered 133 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: to head off a new investigation. So they didn't do 134 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: a very good job. People are still poking around. And 135 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: then they did not nail the lid shot on that 136 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: one very well. Yeah, I think they missed completely knocked 137 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: the lid off. And yeah, yeah, they just stirred up 138 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: a Hornet's nest here. So there's a lot of talk 139 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: about the you know, the elements of the CIA and 140 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: murdered him. It's also talking about maybe it was the 141 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: FBI that did him in. The CIA couldn't have murdered him, 142 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: you don't think, so, I don't think. I don't know. 143 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: Every time somebody's like, oh, the CIA murdered this guy, 144 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: but did it happen on US soil, then it probably 145 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: wasn't the CIA thinks, right, think isn't that the thing? 146 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: The CIA can't operate on US soil without a different 147 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: department quote unquote heading it. Well, yeah, but you know, 148 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: if they're if they're doing something as the illegal is 149 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 1: murdering people, they probably don't care or you just got 150 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: the FBI to do it for you. There pretty much 151 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: and the FBI don't really like each other. That's true. Yeah, 152 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. That's just always my initial reaction when 153 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: I hear things like that it's finally coming out on 154 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: the show. I tend to be a little skeptical about 155 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: that whole thing. Might when I take of the CIA, 156 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: I don't think of cloak and dagger, and I don't 157 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: think of special black ops, and you know, wet work 158 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. I think of just blistering incompetence. 159 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: That's what the lake. Yeah maybe he did it. Oh yeah, 160 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: No more talk about those guys. Okay, I want to 161 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: stay alive. Uh So we should fraably get back to 162 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: hail Bogs. Yah. Let's talk to hail Box here for 163 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: a minute. The hail Box actually, speaking of the FBI, 164 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: had a good relationship with Jager Hoover. I read to 165 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: a bit of his FBI files and there were a 166 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: lot of there was a lot of correspondence back and 167 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: forth on various issues, and hail Bogs was constantly praising 168 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: Hoover and the FBI and the Audiadiada, which is so 169 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: counter to some of the louder websites that you find 170 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: on this story, and it's so funny. Well, things did 171 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: change a little bit. Things did change, yeah, and by 172 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: by April nineteen seventy one. In April nineteen seventy one, 173 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: Bogs claimed that he discovered a bug and his telephone 174 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: at home and he thought it was the FBI to 175 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: put it there. And then in maybe two weeks later, 176 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: he gave a speech before Congress in which he called 177 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: for Jaker, who were to resign. Yeah, and he was. 178 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: He was drawing like parallels between Jacker Hooger and the 179 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: FBI and the Soviets and stuff like this and all 180 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: this stuff. Yeah, yeah, Did you did either of you 181 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: listen to the because obviously Nixon wasn't very happy about that. 182 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: Did you listen to the tapes the from Nixon when 183 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: he was talking to I think it was, yeah, Jerry 184 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: because he called him Jerry, so it was for when 185 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: he was talking to him, and it's They always say, well, 186 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: then this is proof that Nixon wanted him out, and 187 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: Nixon's not happy with him. But I had never heard 188 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: any of the tapes from Nixon before, and it is 189 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: the weirdest conversation in the world to listen to. Did 190 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: either of you get it? Is? I have never heard 191 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: such a leading conversation. In other words, Nixon would start 192 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: talking and there would be a question in there, and 193 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: then Ford would start, you know, oh yes or oh yes, sir, 194 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: oh yes, sir to answer the question and make him 195 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: feel better, and then he would just ride over him 196 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: and then he would oh, okay, well I gotta let 197 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: you go. I gotta go, and then he'd do it 198 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: all over again. It was the weirdest thing in the 199 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: world to listen to. And I didn't know why everybody 200 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: made such a fuss about it. It really was just 201 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: I don't think that guy should have done that, And 202 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: I think we got a problem. So you should have 203 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: somebody look into this. Okay, thanks by got a problem 204 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: with Boggs, a problem with with Hoover, with Bosh, Yeah, 205 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: with Bogs and everything he was saying against Hoover. Yeah. Yeah, 206 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: And I know that Nixon was not about to touch Hoover. 207 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you know a story nobody. Yeah, Hoover was untouchable. Yeah, 208 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: he's got his own damn. Yeah, seriously, and he uh 209 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: he had the goods on everybody, the rumor has and 210 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: so yeah, everybody was afraid to go after Hohoover. This 211 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 1: is why his grave is hidden, because it's all in 212 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: his coffin. Yeah, secrets. Ye. I would love to get 213 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: my hands on his files. So cool, you and me both. 214 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: Yeah anyway, Yeah, so something changed boxes mind about j 215 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: Edgar Um. Now back to our faithful plane ride. The morning. 216 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: It was the morning of October six, nineteen seventy two. 217 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: The weather was so so it's fog, low clouds, a 218 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: little drizzle, you remember I was there. Yeah, yeah, and uh. 219 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: There was a company called pan Alaska that was only 220 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: a guy named Don Jones who piloted this this plane 221 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: that was the plane was one of their planes. It's Jones. 222 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: It's in case somebody's going to go out in google 223 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: it Z. It's j O and Z, which isn't exactly 224 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: the intuitive spelling of the word. Yeah, I've heard it 225 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: pronounced John's as well. Yeah. I was just about to 226 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: say it could be Johns, I don't know, or or 227 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: Juan's yawns. But it's Jon Jones. Now it could be 228 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: John Z for all we know, but for our purposes 229 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: we'll just call him Jones. His flight plan basically was 230 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: that they were going to the town of Yakutat and 231 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: probably this meant that pronouncing that, But they're going by 232 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: via airway V three seventeen, which is a flight route. 233 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: It's a flight route. Yeah, yeah, and uh and from 234 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: and once they got to Yakutut, then yak Yakutat, they 235 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: would go on a straight line to Juno. From there, 236 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: it was supposed to be about it about a three 237 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: and a half hour trip. So the route goes southeast 238 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: from Ancoras to what's called Portage Pass through the mountains, 239 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: and then it veers leftward a bit and goes pretty 240 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: much more or less straight to Yakutat, and then from 241 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: there it was to not just just a little bit 242 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: right ward carries on to Juneo, but it leaves to 243 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: the V seventeen flight path. So it's pretty much overland. No, no, 244 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: it's mostly over water. Mostly over water. That's that's actually 245 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: you have the I've got a map of it. Yeah, 246 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: so what you're looking at it. It's funny is that 247 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: I had looked up what the current normal route is 248 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: between the two cities. Yeah, and most commercial airlines today 249 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: actually take an arc between the two and they stay 250 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: inland for most of that trip. So it was really 251 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: interesting when I saw this that it was actually but 252 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 1: it's on the coastline. Over water, but on the coastline. Yeah, 253 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: that's pretty much. Yeah. So yeah, it takes off, goes 254 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: to Portage Pass and then heads off across Pritts Williams 255 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: Sound and then you know, it's mostly over water, but 256 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: it's it's not that far off the coast, so if 257 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: you get a little bit of trouble, maybe you can 258 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: find the innikulated dry land before you crash. The water 259 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: is cold, it be hard, Yeah, it would suck either way. Yeah, 260 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: Don Jones, the pilot said that he was going to 261 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: fly under visual flight rules. What does that mean? The 262 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: visual flight rules means that it's that that's what you 263 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: do when the weather it's clear enough that you can 264 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: see all around you. And and then instrument flight rules 265 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: are when when conditions are very limited visibility, then you're 266 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: supposed to be able to fly by instruments instead of 267 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: just by using your just fly by side or fly 268 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: by instrument. He was doing fly by sight, yeah, he was. Yeah, 269 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: and you know, kind of foggy cloud weather and he 270 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: was of course he was qualified to do both, right 271 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: he was. Yeah. I mean he's this guy had like 272 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: seventeen thousand hours of flight experience. That's it. I think 273 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: that's probably an important thing to mention as well, because 274 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: it's not Yeah, and so I don't know if he 275 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: was just getting cocky or what, but yeah, he But 276 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: the NTSB investigated this and wrote a report in nineteen 277 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: seventy three, that's when they released it. Anyway, those uninitiated 278 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: TSB National Transportation Safety Board. That's it listens about that. 279 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: I'm thank you for saying that, because I read it 280 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I know what that is, 281 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: and then just continued months. Good call. Yeah, okay, it's 282 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: but according to their report quote the weather conditions along 283 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: the proposed route, we're not conducive to flight under visual 284 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: flight rules criteria unquote. Yeah, but anyway, that's what they did. 285 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,479 Speaker 1: They took off at nine am. Last communication with anchorage 286 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: tower was at nine oh nine am, and reportedly they 287 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: disap as they were approaching the Chugach Mountain Range. I 288 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: hope I'm pronouncing that right. Probably not, so the plant 289 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: didn't even make it to Yakoo, tad All. An interesting 290 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: factory about the Chugach Mountains is that they get more 291 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: snowfall than any other place in the world. What they do, 292 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: annual average snowfall is si So if they're playing did 293 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: happen to crash in the in the in those mountains, well, 294 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: it's not a surprised. I never found that. That absolutely 295 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: is for our not American everybody else who uses the 296 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: metric system metrified, that's fifteen point to five. Yeah, so 297 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: that's not nothing. It's not a lot of snow. You 298 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: can make an awesome. Snowman really big one, yeah, or 299 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: a lot of them. Snowman army, Yeah, would be great. 300 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: Give them a little hats, send them marching on anchor 301 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: don't watch Dr Who. I remember that episode they have 302 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: testy little teeth that they have actual carnivorous snowman or something. 303 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: I saw that one they did. I like it. Back 304 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: where we are we Yeah, So the plane was supposed 305 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: to arrive in Juneo at twelve thirty PM. At one 306 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: fifteen it was reported overdue. So the US Air Force 307 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: Rescue Coordination Center checked with all the air fields that 308 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: were anywhere near the plane's flight path, and nobody had 309 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: seen or heard anything from the plane, so that he 310 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: didn't make an emergency landing anywhere. And they were in 311 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: a six You said it was a six seeded Cessna. Yeah, 312 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: twin engine Cessna with six seeds. I am never going 313 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: to get an as Sessa. Yeah right, yeah, yeah, they diverted. 314 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: There was already an an airborne HC one thirty plane 315 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: up in the air, so they diverted that to go 316 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: look for the plane, and of course they brought in 317 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: lots more resources. This was one of the biggest searches 318 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: ever they spent thirty nine days looking for theseus I 319 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: guess you will. Yeah, yeah. Uh So the planes helicopters, 320 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: both government owned in private, and they served s thousands 321 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: of square miles of land and also Coastguard cutters along 322 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: with merchant marine vessels and fishing vessels search Prince William Sound, 323 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: the Gulf of Alaska and the Icy Straits area around Juneau, 324 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: and they found nothing, not even a bit of wreckage 325 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: floating in the water. Nothing. And then an interesting little 326 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: side side. Some people have made a lot of this 327 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: like they have. In October eighteenth, nineteen seventy two, the 328 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: fbis Los Angeles office got a call from a guy. 329 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: And I've heard this two ways. One was the FBI 330 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: I got a call from the guy, and the animal 331 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: was that this guy called the Long Beach Coast Guard Office. Yeah. 332 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: I have actually seen it both ways, now that you 333 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: say that. Yeah. And so this guy claimed work for 334 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: a company that specialized in quote surveillance technologies unquote, and 335 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: that they had located the plane via either some sort 336 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: of radio transmission or via the transmission from its emergency 337 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: location transmitter. Because most planes carry the fact that they 338 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: all carry the days today they all do. They didn't 339 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: carryhim in those days necessarily. This actually, this crash is 340 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: why all planes now have HE transponders in them, which 341 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: are really really effective, as we know from recent crashes. Yeah, 342 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: they're very helpful in finding crashes. They are kind of 343 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: helpful usually. The first time I ever saw when I 344 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: was in a little two seater sessment with this guy 345 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: that I knew, yeah, I was incess. I am like, 346 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: actually this guy was. I really did kind of take 347 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: my life in my hands because this guy was actually 348 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: a fairly novice pilot and he wanted to go for 349 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: and and so we rented this plane and took off 350 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: from Vancouver, Washington and want to flew around not Saint 351 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: Helen's cannon came back and that's when I know that 352 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: I saw my first emergency transit. Emergency transmitter and says 353 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: it looks like like a walkie talkie mounted in a 354 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,719 Speaker 1: really heavy duty bracket towards the back of the plane, 355 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: and it's got a tagle switch on the top of it, 356 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: and there's a little rail and it's got this heavy 357 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: weight on it. So the whole idea is when I 358 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: was plane goes Chris Smack action to something that heavyweight's 359 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: gonna go back forward and toggle that switch. Very simple, 360 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, but yeah, and 361 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: under Alaska law, you were required to have some sort 362 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: of emergency transmitter if you didn't have one mounted in 363 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: your plane, and then you could have a portable unit 364 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: with with the pilot so you could do that. So 365 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: Alaska did require them in this particular case. Just so 366 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: over so I remember that that's two days after the 367 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: crash that that guy called. Oh yeah, yeah, that's yeah, 368 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 1: back to that until totally got off the track. That's okay, 369 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: it is, yeah, two days yeah, so two days after 370 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: the crash or two days after the disappearance. Yeah, that's 371 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: when he called. And then um, yeah, so this guy 372 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: and he gave the coordinates of the crash site and 373 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: although he didn't really give the coordinates as in ladder 374 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: price precise latitude and longitude. Instead he gave these really 375 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 1: strange directions. Yeah. Yeah. He also said that there were 376 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: two people still alive there. He said, you know how 377 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: he would know that, Well, that's kind of what I'm 378 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 1: wondering too, because you know, then it must have neces 379 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: sort of radio transmission. But what I don't understand is 380 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: how it is that nobody else heard this? Yeah, or 381 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: maybe they were doing like a flyover thermal. In the 382 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: more real websites that you see, they say that at 383 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: the time, the U. S. Government had the ability to 384 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: actually track individual people and could pick up some kind 385 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: of special radio and I don't know, I I don't 386 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: understand it because it's really kind of fringe. E. It 387 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: was his it was his fillings anyway, it was their 388 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: electrical magnetic field. Everybody, they could track you by your 389 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: personal electromagnetic field because what it was, and that they 390 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: had the technology to do it, but they couldn't reveal that. 391 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: So of course, whenever anybody said, well, how do you 392 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: know that? But I can't tell you that? Or who 393 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: do you work for? I can't tell you that because 394 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: technically it's a government institution that he works for. It 395 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 1: was the goofiest thing if you and you have the 396 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: what he said, yes and that the directions right, Yes, yes, 397 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: is our our highly highly reliable sources. They call him 398 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,479 Speaker 1: the FBI. I think they called him that. But okay, 399 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: so here's how it goes. The it's is draw a 400 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: straight line from Anchorage to Juno Head west from JUNO 401 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: two hundred and an unknown number because we don't know 402 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: what it is because the photocopy is so bad that Yeah, 403 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: the tent. So it's hundred and blank six and one 404 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: half miles across the Yakutat Bay and the Malsapoena Glacier. 405 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: Draw a line from that point to the coast. Go 406 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: back north along that line six point four or three 407 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: miles to the downed plane. That, ladies and gentlemen, is 408 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: a geographic word problem. Yeah, that's like an s A 409 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: T question. It kind of is. I don't I don't 410 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: unders understand why if they couldn't just give like the 411 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: latitude and longitude. Maybe I have theories on it, and 412 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that when we get into the theories section. 413 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 1: But that is that, that is the way that the 414 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: directions were given. Yeah, the FBI and did go interview 415 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: this guy. Unfortunately, his name has been redacted in their records, 416 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: so I don't know what his name was, but yeah, 417 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: they were part of that. He quote appeared rational, extremely intelligent, 418 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: but somewhat strange unquote, and he was also evasive, like said, 419 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: he wouldn't say where his what his company was, or 420 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: exactly what they did wouldn't talk about that. And then uh, 421 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: the FBI asked him again like later on, they if 422 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: he knew anything about like what frequency these radio transmissions 423 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: were on, or what any of these messages were, like 424 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: what the text of matches were he was He wouldn't say, 425 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 1: so he was absolutely part of the fringe, yeah, right, 426 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: or pranks. Yeah, it could have been a prankster. Yeah. Uh. 427 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: The FBI did pass the info on to the relevant people. 428 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: The area was reportedly searched and nothing was found. Uh, 429 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: and after that day decided the source was a flake. 430 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: And also again the plane, even though it didn't have 431 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: any in an e l T Emergency location transmitter, the 432 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: pilot still was supposed to carry one, but Don Jones 433 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: and e LT was found later on board another Pan 434 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: Alaska airplane. This is weird. I mean, I guess it's 435 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,959 Speaker 1: I think that he went from one plane to the 436 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: next and left. Yeah. Yeah, but I guess again it's 437 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: one of those. You know, he was a pretty accomplished pilot. Yeah, 438 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: he didn't feel like it was really necessary. Coincidence that 439 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: he decided to choose the wrong kind of way to fly. 440 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: It's a coincidence that he managed to leave his transmitter 441 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: on a different plane. Oh yeah, I mean, I don't 442 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: think there's anything a dark conspiracy or anything like that. 443 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: I think, but it is. It's a lot of a 444 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: lot of oh say yeah, yeah, I don't know. Maybe 445 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: maybe the pilot was feeling a little down and decided 446 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: to take himself out. And we've seen it before. Yeah, 447 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: I know. Uh so it appears that there was no 448 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: emergency transmitter. Now the plane, of course had other radios 449 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: in it, but how well those would be working after 450 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: a plane crash, I don't know. Yeah, especially under snow. Yeah, yeah, 451 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 1: I don't think it dove all the way down through 452 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,479 Speaker 1: really hard. Well, it was in the sky, I'll give 453 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: you that. That was I'm thinking of that plane that 454 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: crashed in South America decades ago, and it's they were 455 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: they were in a head wind and they didn't realize 456 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: that they had not They were traveling basically from Buenos 457 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: Aires to Peru, and so because of the head wind, 458 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: they weren't as far west as they thought they were, 459 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: so they started their descent too early and they sort 460 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: of crashed into the side. Yeah. I was just reading 461 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: about that the other day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then 462 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: the most recently what happened is they wind up being 463 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: becoming part of a glacier, and now parts of the 464 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: plane are starting to come out of the glacier, the 465 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: front of the glacier. Yeah, after all those years decades, Yeah, 466 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: the planes finally popping out. Maybe that and maybe that's 467 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: what's gonna happen here. Maybe you'll start coming out of 468 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: a glacier one of these days. That plane crashed and 469 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: it was forty six or forty seven or something like that, 470 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: and these guys who were ha been in World War Two, 471 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, I remember that anyway. But that's all that's 472 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: were I want to get off track. That's okay. It's 473 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: people love to just hear us talk, even if we're 474 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: not saying anything. But yeah, but as far as if 475 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: they heard radio transmissions, like vote voice radio transmissions, it's 476 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: kind of surprising nobody else did, although several independent Ham 477 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: operators in northern California said they spoke with someone or 478 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: at least heard a transmission from someone on the plane 479 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: after it crashed who said that there were survivors. And 480 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: then again, it's another one of those weird things right 481 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: where it's like, but why so far away is that 482 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: everybody was hearing it. You know, why weren't people why 483 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: you know, why didn't the airports in the area that 484 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: we're on the radio? When didn't they pick up operators 485 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: in Oregon and Washington and Canada picking it? Yeah, that's 486 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: a good question. But was it only California, just only 487 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: northern California maybe? Yeah, reminds me of Lost Boiler Area. Yeah, 488 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: maybe the plane actually crashed in California. That's why they 489 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: couldn't find it. They were way of course. Yeah that 490 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: is a terrible yeah. Yeah, so our mystery. Then what 491 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: happened to Bog's Beggett, Brown and Jones. Yeah, it sounds 492 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: like a law firm. Huh. There are three possibilities excluding 493 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: up in the aliens. Yeah. Um, you know, I'm also 494 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: going to exclude the they went off to go start 495 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: a new life somewhere else theory. You don't actually do that. Yeah, 496 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: you totally keep going in there. Yeah, so three possibilities. 497 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: Here's number one, the CIA or and or the FBI 498 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: arranged to have a bomb planet on the airplane. That 499 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: this is a lot of people believe that there was 500 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: a bomb. Um some people believe that the CIA assassin 501 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 1: wasn't not other than Bill Clinton. Is that real? Yeah, 502 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: that's real. I found it on at least two or 503 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: three websites. Supposedly Clinton was a young man and he 504 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: drove bogs to the airport to get on the plane 505 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: that took him to Alaska, not the plane that went down. Well, yeah, 506 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: everybody takes it takes us as Yeah, he drove him 507 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: to the airport in Alaska and and just snuck a 508 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: bomb in Texas or something like that. Weren't they the 509 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: dollars airport? Dollars airports in New York? Right? And Dallas 510 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: is Washington, Virginia. So Washington d C me no geography 511 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: quite well, surrounding area. Yeah, I mean it's not in DC. 512 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: It's got to be I'm thinking of Dallas Fort Worth. Then, yeah, 513 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: that's it. Just a little confused. Yeah, well, you know, 514 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: I was a little confused as soon as I heard 515 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: that Old Bill Clinton was response would explain why he 516 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: was elected to isn't as payment? That's that's gotta be it. 517 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: So he probably drove into the airport and says, hey, 518 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: I just got a little part of the gift for 519 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: you here. I don't want you to until you get 520 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: to Juno, and don't mind the ticken. I have never 521 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: heard your Bill Clinton impression, but it's pretty good. Thank you. So, 522 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: so Clinton is the assassin? Which Clinton was the assassin? Yeah, 523 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The only thing that he has been able 524 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: to assassinate that I've ever known of is his wife's 525 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: dignity and his own character. Yeah, okay, but continue on 526 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: with this. Okay, So where where the c A or 527 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: FBI had a bomb planet on the plane? As I 528 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: said earlier, he was pushing, supposedly pushing to reopen the 529 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: investigation into the assassination, and he had to be silenced. Um, 530 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: it's said, It's been said that Box was suspicious that 531 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: there was CIA and or Cuban government involvement in the assassination. Yeah, 532 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: because you know that is the thing. Ok Yeah. An 533 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: author named John H. Davis wrote a book about one 534 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: of Bog's associates. I don't think I don't know how 535 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: closely he was associated with this guy, but the guy, 536 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: it was kind of a mafiosa sort of guy. And 537 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: then he said that he wrote that Box was skeptical 538 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: the FBI investigation as conclusions. He said also that years 539 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: after the fact that one of Bog's former aids said, quote, 540 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: Hale always returned to one thing. Hooverlied his eyes out 541 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: to the commission on Oswald on Ruby on their friends, 542 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: the bullets of the guns you name it unquote of 543 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: course says it's just you know what, kind of like 544 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: third hand kind of stuff kind of hearsay, yeah. Yeah. Alternatively, 545 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: the FBI might have done it because Boggs disc jag 546 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: or Hoover, as I said, he did, announced him and 547 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: demanded his resignation in April. Possibility. Yeah, of course, Hoover 548 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: died five months before the disappearance of the plane. But 549 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: you never know. I mean, maybe he gave the order 550 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: in the assassins, just waited until October because that was 551 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: the propetious time to do it, because after all, Alaska 552 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: and small airplanes don't really get along that well, even 553 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: though if you have to happen to get around. I mean, 554 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: they seem to disappear a hell of a lot up there, 555 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: or crash or not disappear, but they crashed, they don't 556 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: fare well. Yeah uh. And also bolstering the FBI theory, 557 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: Nick Baggage, his son who was also named Nick Baggage, 558 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: said in two thousand and eleven and then interview that 559 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: the FBI knew where the down airplane was but didn't 560 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: turn over the information to the coast Guard, and so 561 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: the plane survivors were basically left to die in the wilderness. 562 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: That's what he claimed. And yeah, I know, well, it's 563 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: just I mean, I don't know. I usually when when 564 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: the kids of the victims of things buy into these 565 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories, they champion the conspiracy. I had a kind 566 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: of I don't know, like adds a little more to me. 567 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: You know, they their parents pretty well, they would know 568 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: if they had that sense of like that that was 569 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: actually probably gonna happen to them or not. But obviously, 570 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: I mean, like I don't think that Cokey Roberts thinks 571 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: that just happened. So yeah, she's kind of the polar opposite. 572 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's interesting. It's I don't know, but that's 573 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: always interesting to me. Yeah, it's always I think, you know, 574 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,479 Speaker 1: especially once your parents or something like that, I mean, 575 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: you want to want to be something more historically significant, 576 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: and there's just gotten the crash. Yeah, but he said 577 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: that they did it mainly to uh, I'm not so 578 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: sure that he buys. He hasn't didn't really say anything 579 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: about the whole uh JFK assassination thing. But he thought 580 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: he thought the FBI just had the technology to find them, 581 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: but it was new and classified, its super secret. They 582 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: didn't want to give away their their sources by sense, 583 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: so they basically chose to let these people all die, 584 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: which I don't I don't believe in seventy two they 585 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,959 Speaker 1: had any sort of sort of super mystical It had 586 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: to be a satellite. Yeah, I think about it. And 587 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: it was looking up the satellite list that had been 588 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: launched and were available at that time, and it didn't 589 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: get an impression from anything that was out there that 590 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: we had anything remotely capable of doing that unless the 591 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: FBI had, you know, actually bugged in his bloodstream. Hail bogs. 592 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: Think they put a little tracker chip in him that 593 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: could be to know where he was at all times, 594 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: to make sure he wasn't up to no good. Yeah, 595 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: that could be that technology existed then, Yeah, Yeah, well 596 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: we had and we had we did have spy satellites 597 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: and stuff, but you know, you kind of like they're 598 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: not necessarily going to pass over that particular spot at 599 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: that particular time. Yeah, and that and there, uh, you know, 600 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: they might go over that spot once every now and 601 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: again unless you want to change their change their orbit 602 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: a bit, which they're kind of reluctant to do because 603 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: they have limited fuel on board. I don't know why 604 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: Google didn't get a picture of it. Uh yeah, Well, 605 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: speaking of Google, can we talk about this whole the 606 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: guy who said he knew the coordinates thing a little 607 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: bit more or no? Because I used Google Transition, Yes, 608 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: got it, because I I kind of I kind of 609 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: went a little crazy on this this word problem that 610 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: they gave us about how that heat where he said 611 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: they knew where Boggs was, and there's some serious problems 612 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: with it. And I'm gonna say at the outset that 613 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure the problems with it are that somebody 614 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: did their quote unquote calculations. They did it on a 615 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: paper map using a ruler and a pencil, and you know, 616 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: doing the distance conversions from x amount of distance equels 617 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: a mile. So their their scale is probably what screwed 618 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: him up. If we go back to what this person said, 619 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: it said from Juno, head west from Juno, which is 620 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,280 Speaker 1: the southernmost point of their route, because we're just north 621 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: of it or north west of you know, well, the 622 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: two hundred number two hundred blank in that has to 623 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: be a low number. Okay, so it's two hundred and six, Well, 624 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: that means it's gonna be like two six to put 625 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: it around that glacier that he's talking about. But in 626 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: a straight line. There's almost no land that that on 627 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: the line of that they're running. So when it says 628 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: follow that line, hit this this mile point, and then 629 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: draw a line to the coast, well, I don't know 630 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: what that line to the coast means. But then track 631 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: that back north six point four three miles, Well that 632 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: does put them completely in Basically, it puts them in 633 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: the middle of what's the glacier there, the Mallas Spina glacier. 634 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: That's the one that they reference, which is a Piedmont glacier, 635 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: which is a weird glacier because it's kind of flat 636 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: and from space it almost looks like somebody dropped a 637 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: white drop of paint in blue the way it kind 638 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: of echoes out. But it's a real flat area, so 639 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 1: it would have been pretty easy for the search planes 640 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 1: to find it because there's no major cavasses and crags 641 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 1: and stuff in there. So a my first problem is 642 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: is that the course that they the point that they 643 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: call out on the course is over water. So it's 644 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: hard to go to the coast because I infer it 645 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: to head south from the line to coastline and then 646 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: head north. But even if it's just heading directly north, 647 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense. It's it's such an easy 648 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: flat area to find somebody. So that's why I consider 649 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: the whole thing just so badly done. And somebody who 650 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: thought they knew what they were talking about be still 651 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: a map and they were kind of a cook. Yeah, 652 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: I think I think the guy was just I think 653 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: it was probably just because you know, I guess some 654 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: guy wanted attention. Maybe I don't know, but I spent 655 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: I spent way too much time on Google Earth trying 656 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 1: to map out these coordinates, and just it's just a 657 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: strange way to give the give the coordinates to the 658 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: crash site. As you say, if they had crashed on 659 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: that placier, then they're probably even if they're playing had 660 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: fallen down a crevass, you'd see it. It's some nice, 661 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: big long skid marks and a little bit of debreed 662 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So between the 663 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: FBI and the CIA. I'm gonna go with the CIA, 664 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: mainly because since they were employing Bill Clinton, that makes 665 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,919 Speaker 1: him an assassin and murderer, so that's kind of fun. 666 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess we said he drove into the 667 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: Dollas Airport, but he was nowhere near Alaska in the 668 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: day that the plane took off. I think that Cloe 669 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: can clear Clinton of this and a way, but maybe 670 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: somebody else planning bomb on the on the plane and Anchorage, 671 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: and it's always possible even if it wasn't Bill Clinton. 672 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 1: But according to the National Transportation Safety Boards report, UH 673 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: says probably not because at eight am that day, Don 674 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 1: Jones took the plane to the refueling pitch at Anchorage 675 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: International Airport. The witnesses there's said nothing was put on 676 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: the plane except for gasoline, and after that Jones taxied 677 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: the plane to a rap near the control tower where 678 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 1: the three passengers got on, and witness there said that 679 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: a small amount of baggage passenger baggage was also placed 680 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: on the plane, but that was it, although of course 681 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,919 Speaker 1: there could have been a bomb in one of the bags. Yeah, 682 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 1: you know, I suppose, you know, I think the thing 683 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: is John's was a kind of a cocky pilot. Yeah, 684 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 1: it seems like it. Well he he was no evidently 685 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: their statements recorded where he would say he could fly 686 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: through any condition. So that's that's a little bit that 687 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: kind of makes me. Plus everything else that we've talked about, 688 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: I really don't think that this is a c I, 689 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: a FBI assassination job. You don't know, Well, there's not 690 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,720 Speaker 1: much in the way of that. And speaking of cockiness, besides, 691 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,320 Speaker 1: you're required on planes like this, we're required to carry 692 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,280 Speaker 1: not only the transmitter, the emergency transmitter, but you're required 693 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: to carry all kinds of survival supplies, I mean a lot. 694 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: And witness says that saw the plane before it took 695 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: off said that they didn't see any containers containing survival supplies. 696 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: You're supposed to have things like you're supposed to have 697 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 1: a gun, two weeks worth of food for everybody on 698 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: the plane, Uh, you know, heavy clothing and probably flare 699 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 1: a gun, and and wool blankets, your fair repellent trans susmitters, 700 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, you're supposed to have all kinds of 701 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 1: stuff and probably and there was Yeah, apparently there was 702 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: nothing on the plane according to witnesses that resembled the 703 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: container full of survival supplies. Yeah, and so he left it. 704 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: He left the survival supplies behind, and he left his 705 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: emergency transmitter behind. So yeah, you're right, it was kind 706 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,839 Speaker 1: of a cocky guy. Was that on all planes? Joe? 707 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: Was that in Alaska? No? Just in general? Is it 708 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: just in Alaska that they're required to I think that's Alaska? Low? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 709 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: I think it would actually be a good idea if 710 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 1: you're flying anywhere in the lower forty eight to carry 711 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: some survival supplies too, because just flying anywhere, yeah, because 712 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: you're if you crash, there's a good chance you're going 713 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 1: to crash in the middle of nowhere. So yeah, yuh, 714 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,399 Speaker 1: better be able to be prepared to survive. Um, let's 715 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: go to another theory, uh, theory number two, which is 716 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 1: at the plane just crashed, it wasn't bombed or anything 717 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: like that. Back to Cokie Roberts, she said in two 718 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: thousand four that her father actually had no problems with 719 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: the Warren Commission's findings, and he, she said, he was 720 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,359 Speaker 1: also not pushing for the investigation to be reopened. So 721 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: it turns out maybe some of that is not quite 722 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 1: so true. Although I saw at least one guy on 723 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: a website they called her a liar with an exclamation 724 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: point to yeah I think it was yeah, yeah, yeah. 725 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: She later said in too she said that Boggs was 726 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,799 Speaker 1: skeptical the single bullet theory, but she also said that 727 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: she believed that Lee Harvey Oswald did act alone and 728 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: if Boggs was gonna be something different than she probably 729 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 1: would have said something to her about that, and Hail 730 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: Bogs never said anything to his daughter about that. Um 731 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: I was Also in fourteen she said that she she 732 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,720 Speaker 1: here that the plane is at the bottom of Prince 733 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 1: William Sound and that it will probably never be found. Yeah, 734 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: because after all, this did this did take place in Alaska, 735 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,320 Speaker 1: and as we said, Alaska does not like plane no people, 736 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: people and planes disappear all the time in Alaska. Uh 737 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: So it's just not that unusual. And again, if they 738 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: did go down because a bad weather or whatever, you know, 739 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 1: you can actually crash your plane. I mean, Don Jones 740 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,720 Speaker 1: was a very experienced pilot, but even an experienced pilot, 741 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: if you're getting a fog bank, they really lose your bearings. 742 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: Next thing you know, you're flying upside down and maybe 743 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,799 Speaker 1: flying into the flying straight down and not realizing what 744 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: you're doing, you know, And so when when you're not 745 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: on instruments in this guy and he was not on instruments, 746 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: it's easy to do that. Yeah. Well I also heard 747 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,720 Speaker 1: that there was I swear I read somewhere that the 748 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: conditions were conducive to icing of the wings. Yeah, they 749 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: did not have anything in the way of d icing 750 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 1: equipment on the on the plane right, which again, if 751 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: it's coal, it's low visibility and you're flying to your 752 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: clouds and stuff like their wings are icing up, you 753 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:10,439 Speaker 1: may not realize how much altitude you're losing. Yeah, which, 754 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: and then of course once you've got ice all over 755 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 1: your wings, their new mobility is out the window. You're 756 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,719 Speaker 1: kind of host Yeah. Yeah, I think that Jones was 757 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,760 Speaker 1: aware of ice. Have I saying. I think he probably, 758 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: if he was able to, would probably have tried to 759 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,359 Speaker 1: get out of the clouds, and so because that's that's 760 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: where most of your ice comes from, I believe, Yeah, 761 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,239 Speaker 1: the moisture in the clouds, So you probably tried to 762 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: climb above the clouds. Probably we don't really know what 763 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: he did. Unfortunately, ah see another theory, the theory number three, 764 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,919 Speaker 1: the pilot Don Jones was paid by the to land 765 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: the plane that a remote airstrip where a hail box 766 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 1: was taken prisoner and tortured and interrogated. Where did you 767 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 1: find this? I made it up? But I mean realistically, 768 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: I like the theory, you know, because it involves water 769 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,720 Speaker 1: boarding or whatever they did to him. Uh and uh, 770 00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: you know, if they didn't want to if they didn't 771 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 1: want to kill him, it act it makes more sense 772 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,760 Speaker 1: to bribe the pilot and have him land the plane 773 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: somewhere because if you blow the plane up with the bomb, 774 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: well you don't know where the wreckage is going to 775 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 1: end up. It could end up in the water, could 776 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: end up on land where was found, and then it 777 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 1: becomes obvious that the plane was blown up with the bomb. 778 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,239 Speaker 1: Although if you're the FBI, you probably would be taking 779 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 1: you would be able to say, oh, terrorism, we got 780 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: to take over the investigation, and then you know, quote 781 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: unquote investor investigated and then say, oh, it was you 782 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 1: know whatever the big group that we don't like at 783 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 1: the time is. And everybody would say, oh, those guys 784 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,479 Speaker 1: we had reinforces are to do bad things to them, 785 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 1: and then that's true. I guess it's also entirely I mean, 786 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: if you want to go that route, it's also entirely 787 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: possible that they could have a had a man on 788 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: the ground, b had a transponder and fixed location that 789 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 1: they knew it would go over and set the bomb 790 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,360 Speaker 1: off or see they could have had another plane following 791 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: it to then blow it up and know where the 792 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: debris went and then knowing exactly where to go to 793 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: pick it up. That's true. I mean, that's the thing 794 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,279 Speaker 1: is that, Okay, if we're going to take this conspiracy 795 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,880 Speaker 1: to that level, let's not just presume that these guys 796 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: are the messy jerks who leave their dirty dishes in 797 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: the sink all night long. They go and clean it 798 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: up right away, so they wouldn't know where it was at. 799 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: They probably would, or they could have just I mean, 800 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 1: if they knew the flight path and everything, and they 801 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,879 Speaker 1: knew basically then mostly it was gonna be over water, 802 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: they could have just put a bomb in there with 803 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,600 Speaker 1: an altimeter trigger or a timer. Yeah, I think an 804 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,600 Speaker 1: altimeter trigger would work better. It depends on when you 805 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: put the bomb in the plane. Like if you put 806 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,239 Speaker 1: it in like say, the night before, and that you 807 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,319 Speaker 1: probably want to have an altimeter trigger and even a 808 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 1: time or you don't know, maybe the flight gets delayed, 809 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,239 Speaker 1: maybe they don't take off right away, and then you're 810 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: kind of posed because they're sitting on the air stripped 811 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,080 Speaker 1: because it's frozen, and bomb goes off and then everybody 812 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: knows what's going on. Yeah, well then you claim terrorism, right. Yeah, 813 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,320 Speaker 1: security sweets bail proof. Even the Homeland security didn't exist 814 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, it didn't. I know, I know, 815 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: I know. Really, Homeland Security is doing such a great job. 816 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,120 Speaker 1: We're holding up my bag. I'm still alive, and I 817 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,920 Speaker 1: had them to thank for it. The n s A 818 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 1: is nothing if not amazing. We love them, do the 819 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 1: only great things. Oh, I'm seeing Devin wink at me, 820 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,399 Speaker 1: and she says that, yes, we love all of those 821 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:32,000 Speaker 1: government institutions them for keeping us safe and non infringing 822 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:39,719 Speaker 1: on anything. Ever, they did everything right, electronic bug underneath 823 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 1: this table. We do it right, We did it well. Okay, okay, yeah, 824 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: I think we convinced him. All right, all right, so 825 00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:52,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to vote for the plane just crashed in water. Yeah, 826 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: it's like sitting at the bottom of the ocean right now, 827 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:56,960 Speaker 1: although you never know it, maybe a crash in the 828 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,759 Speaker 1: glacier and it's gonna come popping out one end of 829 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 1: it sooner or later. I'd be kind cool. Yeah, that's 830 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: entirely possible, because you know, the snow in Alaska is 831 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 1: melting at record fast rates now, and things that have 832 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: gone out and been buried in the snow in the 833 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,759 Speaker 1: last several hundred years we're gonna start showing up. So 834 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:21,000 Speaker 1: we may in the next decade find the Cessna. If 835 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,360 Speaker 1: it did indeed crash on land and get buried in 836 00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 1: a glacier, that would be cool that I'm guessing that 837 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,760 Speaker 1: since this route was mainly over water, like about over water, 838 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 1: I think they went down to the drink, and since 839 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,399 Speaker 1: sea levels are rising, we won't find it. So yes, no, never, 840 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 1: you never know, somebody might stumble upon it for one 841 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 1: reason or another. I mean, it's it's not necessarily impossible. 842 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,239 Speaker 1: I mean, technology is marching on. We're finding ways to 843 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,280 Speaker 1: you know, get Google is mapping the bottom of the ocean, 844 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: and they will find it for us. They might. I mean, 845 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 1: we're yeah, we're developing technologies that allow us to really 846 00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,720 Speaker 1: accurately scanned the bottom of the ocean. We're finding Rex, 847 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: did you hear about that, gal, and they found out 848 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,640 Speaker 1: the coast of Colombia and they don't know who it 849 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,839 Speaker 1: belongs to. Now, Yeah, they're trying to figure that out, 850 00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: like seven billion dollars worth of treasure or something like 851 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,279 Speaker 1: staggering about the treasure. Yeah yeah, So I wish I 852 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,000 Speaker 1: could have a chunk of that too. We should just 853 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:19,239 Speaker 1: discover it for ourselves. Yeah, yeah, no, I because you guys, 854 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: I know care. I like the conspiracy theories on this one. 855 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,359 Speaker 1: They're fine, Yeah, they're fine. I think I think I 856 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,800 Speaker 1: think he was murdered. I think Hale Boggs was murdered. Okay, 857 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: the FBI, not the CIA. You think the FBI did it, Yeah, because, 858 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: like I said, the CIA can't operate on US soil. 859 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: Yeah okay. And then did they threaten their bribe Cokey Roberts. 860 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:41,919 Speaker 1: She just doesn't know. Why would she know? How would 861 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,839 Speaker 1: you know? Yeah? As well as that's true, Okay, yeah, 862 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,960 Speaker 1: they brainwashed, this is my that's ridiculous. Look, by the way, 863 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,960 Speaker 1: is that what that is? Well? Cokey did actually disappear 864 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 1: at one point in the mid seventies. Dais believe that 865 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,799 Speaker 1: she was sent off to a remote location and brainwashed 866 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,240 Speaker 1: and false memories were implanted. See it's perfect. Yeah, okay, 867 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:08,920 Speaker 1: there you go. Yeah, come on, let's let's keep going here. 868 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,319 Speaker 1: Is there anything else do about the story? Joe, not really, Uh, 869 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,480 Speaker 1: there's so anyway. So Devin thinks the FBI idea killed them. 870 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,120 Speaker 1: I think the plane just crashed. What do you think? 871 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,200 Speaker 1: Do you think the plane just crashed? Yeah, that's most likely. Okay, 872 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:25,359 Speaker 1: all right, well another mystery solved. Right on. Alright, now 873 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,319 Speaker 1: we've come to your favorite part of the podcast where 874 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,279 Speaker 1: I tell you some stuff that you already know. Yeah, 875 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,680 Speaker 1: if you if you want to find us down letter, episodes, whatever, 876 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,560 Speaker 1: leave comments. So we have a website called Thinking Sideways 877 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 1: podcast dot com. We also have links, so we will 878 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,840 Speaker 1: post some links to some kind of like websites. They 879 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,879 Speaker 1: are kind of like what tinfoil hat kind of websites. Well, 880 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: it depends on the ones that you select. Yeah, yeah, 881 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,839 Speaker 1: without christ for our on iTunes, so you can subscribe, 882 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 1: You can leave us a rating and a review. We 883 00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,480 Speaker 1: really like that. You can stream us from anywhere. We're 884 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,080 Speaker 1: on face Book, So Thinking Sideways on Facebook, don't try 885 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 1: to friend us, but we do have a group, so 886 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 1: you want to join the group or the like the page. Yeah, 887 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 1: I like the page or both. Yeah, Twitter, we're thinking 888 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:17,839 Speaker 1: sideways without the g um and uh for email, send 889 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,479 Speaker 1: us an email. We're thinking sideways podcast at gmail dot 890 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 1: com and send us thoughtful praising emails or even if 891 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,120 Speaker 1: you have criticisms. We've gotten a few criticisms from people, 892 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:32,560 Speaker 1: but they're they're often constructive, sometimes offen like you know, batty, 893 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,960 Speaker 1: but usually constructive. Uh, we are only the way you 894 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,000 Speaker 1: were trying to phrase that was not always constructive, not 895 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:43,759 Speaker 1: always usually sometimes you know what else, We have a subreddit, right, yeah, 896 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,719 Speaker 1: we have a subreadit. Uh. We are also on patreon 897 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,640 Speaker 1: dot com. That's uh Patreon if you haven't heard about 898 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,040 Speaker 1: it before. Is uh the site where you can go 899 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,600 Speaker 1: and you can pledge a certain amount of money, like 900 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 1: you know, a bucket episode or whatever. It's totally optional, 901 00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: but it helps us out because we just had to 902 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 1: pay for yeah. Yeah, we just had to pay a 903 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,120 Speaker 1: bunch of money for our web hosting. Yeah, and uh so, 904 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,440 Speaker 1: but this is totally optional, is if you because I, 905 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,360 Speaker 1: you know, I can't shame anybody or anything like that, 906 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,360 Speaker 1: because I there's a lot of websites I go to 907 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:16,000 Speaker 1: all the time, so there's a lot of campaigning, and 908 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,400 Speaker 1: I have been clicking the clothes button myself, so I 909 00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 1: completely understand people going the free round because I do 910 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,800 Speaker 1: it myself. I use Wikipedia all the time. They're begging 911 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: for money right now, and I'm totally ignoring them. Yeah yeah, Okay, 912 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,400 Speaker 1: Well I guess that's it. You guys have any further thoughts? No? No, 913 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 1: al right, Well tell you next week then Tata everybody, 914 00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,040 Speaker 1: Oh bye, guys, bitter everyone,