1
00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:04,400
Speaker 1: Also media.

2
00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,920
Speaker 2: Oh oh my gosh, welcome back to Behind the Bastards,

3
00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,400
Speaker 2: a podcast where, unbeknownst up to this moment to everyone

4
00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,240
Speaker 2: who has been listening for years, Matt Leeb and I

5
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,480
Speaker 2: live in a house that is essentially an exact replica

6
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,000
Speaker 2: of Burton Ernie's home in Sesame Street, and we're just

7
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,720
Speaker 2: we're in bed. We're getting relaxing from a long day

8
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 2: of watching terrible things on the internet. Matt, are you

9
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,240
Speaker 2: are you tired? Are you bummed out?

10
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,840
Speaker 3: All the time? Every day is a new fresh crop

11
00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,800
Speaker 3: of horrors, which is why you know, I like to

12
00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,320
Speaker 3: go home to our special Burton Ernie house that we

13
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:45,879
Speaker 3: live in together. And so we do it.

14
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:47,879
Speaker 2: You do it, We do. That was really tough on

15
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,080
Speaker 2: your wife, but you know, I think it was the

16
00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:51,080
Speaker 2: right decision we made.

17
00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, she hates it, but also you know,

18
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,320
Speaker 3: like it was pretty clear in the green up that

19
00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 3: I would continue to be living with Robert Evan in

20
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 3: our Burton any compounds shocking explanation.

21
00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,120
Speaker 2: Unbelievably, the rent on Sesame Street is a nightmare.

22
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,080
Speaker 3: It's insane. There's just a lot of gentrification. Now you

23
00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,679
Speaker 3: know we are the gentrification. Yeah, well sure, but I

24
00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,200
Speaker 3: mean when we first decided to move in there, you know,

25
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,120
Speaker 3: it was like it was a nice, you know, neighborhood.

26
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,679
Speaker 3: It had a lot of culture, you know, right, and

27
00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,119
Speaker 3: now there's just a lot of oscar the grouches.

28
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:26,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, just say that.

29
00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,800
Speaker 3: You know, they're in that trash can and I'm like, wow,

30
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 3: maybe uh, try doing less fentanyl.

31
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:38,360
Speaker 2: You know, speaking of fentanyl, you know the emotional equivalent

32
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:43,319
Speaker 2: of fentanyl, Matt is when you accidentally, without trying to

33
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,959
Speaker 2: have three straight weeks or like six straight weeks of

34
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,160
Speaker 2: stories about pedophiles on Behind the Bastards. I didn't mean

35
00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,840
Speaker 2: to write when I started with the Margaret episodes that

36
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 2: we were doing talking about those German pedophiles. I didn't

37
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 2: realize that the next like several weeks just happened. I mean,

38
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,520
Speaker 2: when I started researching the Thomas Jefferson episodes, I should

39
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,400
Speaker 2: have realized, like, oh no, I'm just doing another pedophile

40
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,080
Speaker 2: I got. I got locked into a bad pedophile loop,

41
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,640
Speaker 2: is what I'm saying. Man, happens to the best of us.

42
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,000
Speaker 2: You know, you're best of us.

43
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,040
Speaker 3: You're trying to do your regular podcast schedule and it's

44
00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 3: just pedophile Pedophileoh you finally went outside.

45
00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,920
Speaker 2: You got fresh air. Oh yeah, yeah, I went off

46
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,160
Speaker 2: roading on a mountain and I came back and spent

47
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,520
Speaker 2: an entire week reading about the Olympics. And I'm I

48
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,520
Speaker 2: am proud to say, Matt, no babies die in this

49
00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 2: episode except for like offscreen, and uh no pedophilia in

50
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,960
Speaker 2: these episodes. You know, we're safe. We're safe. I'm so excited.

51
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:45,519
Speaker 2: Here's a round of applause.

52
00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:47,480
Speaker 3: No, that was laughter.

53
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:48,200
Speaker 2: Fun.

54
00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,800
Speaker 3: Now the point is, I have a soundboard, but I

55
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,240
Speaker 3: have not figured out exactly which sound does what. So

56
00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:54,839
Speaker 3: it's going to be a test. We'll see.

57
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,200
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, a lot of tests this week. Well that's good.

58
00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,960
Speaker 2: I just want to promise everyone before the cold Open closes,

59
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 2: we got a fun one this week. Soay we come back.

60
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,640
Speaker 2: We're going to start talking about every Brandage, who was

61
00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,520
Speaker 2: the American who kind of ran the Olympics in the

62
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,040
Speaker 2: United States and eventually he's going to be on the

63
00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 2: IOC and he's going to run the Olympics for everybody.

64
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,880
Speaker 2: And he is just a Nazi, just a real good

65
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,720
Speaker 2: old fashioned American Nazi. I know now I understand why

66
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,680
Speaker 2: I got the call. Yeah, we're gonna have fun with

67
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:36,480
Speaker 2: this one. Anyway. That's the cold open, ah, and we're

68
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,880
Speaker 2: warm Matt before we roll into this episode, you got

69
00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,240
Speaker 2: any pluggables to plug? Yeah, that's right, I waited for

70
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,840
Speaker 2: after the cold open guys, what Yeah.

71
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 3: I mean I do have some pluggables. I actually started

72
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,840
Speaker 3: a new podcast, and this podcast is about Israeli propaganda.

73
00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 3: It's called Bad has Bara, the World's Most Moral Podcast,

74
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 3: as Bara of course being the word for explaining, which

75
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,960
Speaker 3: is kind of a euphemism in Hebrew in Israel for

76
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 3: you know, pr propaganda. Yeah, and so yeah, I started

77
00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 3: that podcast a few months ago and just yeah, if

78
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,839
Speaker 3: anyone out there is looking for sort of you know,

79
00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,800
Speaker 3: information about what's going on in the news regarding all

80
00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,640
Speaker 3: this Israel Palestine stuff, yeah, that's what I've been That's

81
00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,600
Speaker 3: what I've been doing. I've been doing it from an

82
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,880
Speaker 3: anti Zionist Jewish bent, so that people can, you know,

83
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,359
Speaker 3: more fully understand what they are seeing and hearing with

84
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,680
Speaker 3: their eyes and why people are telling them not to

85
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,920
Speaker 3: believe what they see and hear with their eyes and ears.

86
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,560
Speaker 2: Well, it's fun. That does kind of fit in with

87
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 2: our subject of today's episode, because as is going on

88
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 2: right now in Gaza. We are talking about a time

89
00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,600
Speaker 2: when a bunch of horrible stuff was being done by

90
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,599
Speaker 2: the government of a country and a lot of other countries.

91
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,960
Speaker 2: Everyone just kind of tried to pretend it wasn't because

92
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 2: it was really inconvenient to deal.

93
00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:00,560
Speaker 3: With the problem.

94
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,960
Speaker 2: You know, in this case, the country's Germany. Oh yes, yeah,

95
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,359
Speaker 2: So we're going to get to that, but first we

96
00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,440
Speaker 2: kind of need to start this episode. We really have

97
00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 2: to peel back a couple of thousand years here, because

98
00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,880
Speaker 2: it's worth talking about what the Olympics was.

99
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:18,360
Speaker 3: Uh, and we had.

100
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,400
Speaker 2: To start from thousands of years ago? Yeah, we do.

101
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,280
Speaker 3: God damn all right, when was the first Oh that's right,

102
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:26,479
Speaker 3: the Olympics is a thing.

103
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,279
Speaker 2: It's gotten back in the Yeah. No, further than that,

104
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,360
Speaker 2: this is the ancient Greeks, right, yeah, different, Yeah, yeah,

105
00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:35,440
Speaker 2: they are, they're much older.

106
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,120
Speaker 1: Once upon a time, Once.

107
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 2: Upon a time, there were these guys called the ancient Greeks,

108
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,360
Speaker 2: and you know, they invented Western philosophy, and they invented

109
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,480
Speaker 2: some chunk of mathematics. I don't know which part of mathematics,

110
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,760
Speaker 2: but I remember learning that some of math was invented

111
00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,160
Speaker 2: by the ancient Greeks. Sure, and they made a lot

112
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,599
Speaker 2: of art that said, well, they did a lot of

113
00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,560
Speaker 2: great stuff. They spent the bulk of their time murdering

114
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,440
Speaker 2: each other in really terrible ways. The ancient Greeks loved

115
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,159
Speaker 2: killing each other. But in the late seven hundreds BC,

116
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,000
Speaker 2: the ancient Greeks decided, let's do something besides killing each

117
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:16,479
Speaker 2: other and philosophy, Let's do sports. Now that it's right

118
00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,040
Speaker 2: in between, it's a mix, right, like, everyone fights, okay,

119
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 2: but we're not going to kill at the end, We're

120
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:23,919
Speaker 2: just gonna you know, you're not.

121
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,040
Speaker 3: Going to give war.

122
00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is not a new Sports was not

123
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,960
Speaker 2: a new concept in the seven hundreds BC. People had

124
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,520
Speaker 2: been sportsing for basically as long as we've had cities,

125
00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,919
Speaker 2: at least in some fashion or another. Nice but the

126
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,520
Speaker 2: idea that became the Olympics was new, which is that

127
00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,120
Speaker 2: all of these cities that are periodically, you know, at war,

128
00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,360
Speaker 2: in conflict with each other regularly, we're all going to

129
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,120
Speaker 2: come together and everybody's going to compete without murdering each other. Right.

130
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 2: That is kind of but that's a novel idea at

131
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,680
Speaker 2: the time. The first Olympics. You know, I think the

132
00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 2: dates there's always a little bit of flex in dates

133
00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,240
Speaker 2: this far back, but it was probably around seven twenty

134
00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 2: six PC, and it was initially not a great show.

135
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 2: It's just a single two hundred meter race, which given

136
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,000
Speaker 2: that ever people are like, you know, if you're traveling,

137
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 2: if you're walking five days to get to another city,

138
00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:12,920
Speaker 2: you could.

139
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:13,720
Speaker 3: Die on that walk.

140
00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,480
Speaker 2: Right, you watch a guy run two hundred meters.

141
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,640
Speaker 3: I lost three children on my way to watch people

142
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:21,720
Speaker 3: sprint for a.

143
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,120
Speaker 2: While, my family died, But boy, that guy was slightly

144
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,200
Speaker 2: faster than anyone I'd ever seen before.

145
00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's sad, But also I won five

146
00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 3: hundred dollars with draft Kings.

147
00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 2: With draft that's right. DraftKings first started in seven to

148
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 2: seventy six PC. Yeah, so everyone seems to agree. I

149
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,320
Speaker 2: have agreed that like doing a whole Olympics for one

150
00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,320
Speaker 2: little race was kind of bullshit and not worth the trouble,

151
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,680
Speaker 2: so they started adding games pretty quickly. Now, running is

152
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,000
Speaker 2: always going to be a staple, as it is today,

153
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 2: But the Greeks were like modern humans and that once

154
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,360
Speaker 2: they figured out the idea of big international sporting events,

155
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,800
Speaker 2: they all kind of solidified that the best thing to

156
00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 2: gather to watch other people do was beat the shit

157
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,320
Speaker 2: out of each other. Yeah, and fighting.

158
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's so sad because they're probably trying

159
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,200
Speaker 3: to get away from that. Can can you do something like,

160
00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:11,960
Speaker 3: you know, sportsmanship, like the.

161
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,600
Speaker 2: Thist thing from war Running?

162
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, there's got to be blood or else want here.

163
00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,240
Speaker 3: These people going to risk thealize of their kids to

164
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 3: walk all the way over here. Yeah.

165
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,720
Speaker 2: I literally can't even get hard without watching a guy

166
00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,240
Speaker 2: die anymore. Like what are we doing?

167
00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:26,080
Speaker 3: So?

168
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,240
Speaker 2: Wrestling was added in at the eighteenth Olympiad and seven

169
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,160
Speaker 2: o eight BC. Boxing entered for the twenty third Olympiad

170
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,920
Speaker 2: and six eighty eight BC, and then puncreation was added

171
00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,480
Speaker 2: in the thirty third Olympiad.

172
00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,079
Speaker 3: You're gonna have to explain that one.

173
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,640
Speaker 2: It's basically, yeah, it's ancient MMA. It's like the first

174
00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,640
Speaker 2: kind of MMA, right, Like it's like a proto MMA

175
00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,760
Speaker 2: style competition, right. OK, So this is this is what

176
00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:52,920
Speaker 2: eventually leads to the invention of Joe Rogan.

177
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:54,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

178
00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, as we all know, is an undying immortal figure.

179
00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,800
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, he's and that's right, that's right. He's essentially

180
00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,320
Speaker 2: the Emperor from Warhammer forty thousands. But he really really

181
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:13,160
Speaker 2: just focused on fighting sports and male So the ancient

182
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,880
Speaker 2: Olympics had a pretty good run. They're doing this for

183
00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,280
Speaker 2: like not far off from a thousand years something like that,

184
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,559
Speaker 2: a little over because they finally died. Yeah, it goes

185
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,920
Speaker 2: like seven seventy six to three hundred and ninety three

186
00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,920
Speaker 2: a d thereabouts. Again, these are kind of soft dates

187
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,440
Speaker 2: on the last of the Ancient Olympics is too, But

188
00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 2: the end of the old Olympics is generally blamed on

189
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,920
Speaker 2: Emperor Theodosius the First, who has said to he's a

190
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,400
Speaker 2: you know, he's one of these big Christian Roman emperors,

191
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,200
Speaker 2: and he said to have considered it pagan idolatry. I

192
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 2: think that more rigorous scholarship has cast a lot of

193
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,120
Speaker 2: doubt on this because he doesn't seem to have actually

194
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 2: banned them explicitly. But whatever the truth, whatever specifically kind

195
00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,040
Speaker 2: of leads to the fall of the Olympics, they do

196
00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,520
Speaker 2: stop doing them right by the time. Yeah, it's a well,

197
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't actually like the Olympics.

198
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,199
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, listen, I don't know whether or

199
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,400
Speaker 3: not the Olympics is good. I just success that there

200
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,200
Speaker 3: was like the first nerd emperor who's like, oh, no

201
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:11,800
Speaker 3: sports ball please.

202
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,719
Speaker 2: Maybe he may have just it may have just been

203
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,679
Speaker 2: that he was banning other pagan shit, but like that

204
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,200
Speaker 2: stuff was less popular than the Olympics, and so people

205
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:21,600
Speaker 2: kind of lied about it. I don't know. I'm not

206
00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,160
Speaker 2: an Emperor Theodosius the first expert. I just know people

207
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,120
Speaker 2: have cast doubt on the fact that the idea that

208
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 2: he killed the Olympics. Sure, we'll never know, probably at

209
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,040
Speaker 2: any rate, by the time the Roman Empire, the Western

210
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,080
Speaker 2: Roman Empire falls, we're not doing olympicses anymore. They are

211
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,880
Speaker 2: a fading memory, and they would stay that way until

212
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,800
Speaker 2: a french man with a ridiculous mustache was born in

213
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,120
Speaker 2: eighteen sixty three. I'm gonna ask Sophie to get us

214
00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,600
Speaker 2: a picture of that man's mustache up on the old

215
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,880
Speaker 2: screen here. Yeah, but his name was Pierre de Kubartine,

216
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,080
Speaker 2: and he became French, by which I mean he was

217
00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,760
Speaker 2: born at a terrible time to be French, because when

218
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,280
Speaker 2: he's seven or so, born in like eighteen sixty three,

219
00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,320
Speaker 2: so he is seven or eight when the Emperor Napoleon

220
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,680
Speaker 2: the third decides, you know who I want to start

221
00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,520
Speaker 2: a fight with Prussia and.

222
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,920
Speaker 3: It's yeah, he's my favorite guy. He just he just

223
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,000
Speaker 3: went in there and was like, I'm gonna be like

224
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,199
Speaker 3: my great uncle. What was he?

225
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,440
Speaker 2: He was like a nephew. It was like a great uncle.

226
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,400
Speaker 2: We've done the episodes on I forget the act, so

227
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:22,440
Speaker 2: it's kind of a tortured.

228
00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's like, I'm going to do it but

229
00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:26,840
Speaker 3: more shitty and gonna.

230
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,600
Speaker 2: Be really bad at it instead of instead of beating

231
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,720
Speaker 2: the Prussians at a war, I'm gonna lose so badly

232
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,840
Speaker 2: that they create Germany. But look at this guy's mustache.

233
00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,080
Speaker 2: My god, what a That's a one thing you can't

234
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,040
Speaker 2: critique the man on is his facial hair.

235
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:43,040
Speaker 3: He looks great.

236
00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks like he looks like he's just railed

237
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,400
Speaker 2: a triple. It's incredible stuff.

238
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,040
Speaker 3: I love it. Oh my god, this guy.

239
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,559
Speaker 1: Every pick click, it just gets better.

240
00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,880
Speaker 2: He this man, this man couldn't. It's it's what I know.

241
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,360
Speaker 2: He actually did live out like past the eighteen hundreds,

242
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,199
Speaker 2: but he shouldn't have Like that is an eighteen nineties face.

243
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,920
Speaker 2: He's perfect for the eighteen nineties. Pierre's family were aristocrats,

244
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,640
Speaker 2: and he was their fourth child. His dad and again

245
00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,640
Speaker 2: they're aristocrats, so his dad doesn't have to do anything

246
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,120
Speaker 2: for a living, so he's like a painter and he's

247
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,319
Speaker 2: a Royalist. He believes in bringing I think it might

248
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,439
Speaker 2: have been the Bourbon's back as kings, and his childhood

249
00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,880
Speaker 2: suffered from the fact that the whole royalist cause in

250
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,560
Speaker 2: France kind of takes a shit after eighteen seventy one,

251
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,120
Speaker 2: which seems to have made his dad miserable, and his

252
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:35,920
Speaker 2: dad seems to have kind of taken it out on

253
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,840
Speaker 2: the family. Unlike a lot of European aristocrats, to Cubbartine

254
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,719
Speaker 2: is going to grow up profoundly anti war. He is

255
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,880
Speaker 2: actually never kind of not unique in this period, but

256
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,400
Speaker 2: it's kind of refreshing, really rare. He's never one of

257
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,920
Speaker 2: these guys who's like, ah, the gallantry of combat, because

258
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,240
Speaker 2: it's earliest memories are like, we got our asses kicked.

259
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:55,840
Speaker 2: We should never have a war again.

260
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we're not good at it anymore.

261
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 2: We had one Napoleon and everything's got a shit since him.

262
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,400
Speaker 3: We had Bourbons, we had the dukedoor leone guy became

263
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 3: the thing like we can't do any of this.

264
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,080
Speaker 2: Shit, Yeah, let's stop. So he's a great student, he

265
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,680
Speaker 2: goes to Jesuit school, which is like those that's the

266
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,199
Speaker 2: if you're like at all Catholicy, that's where you want

267
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 2: to go back in this period, but he refuses to

268
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,120
Speaker 2: follow his father's wishes because his dad wants him to

269
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,280
Speaker 2: join the military, which again had been kind of the

270
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,480
Speaker 2: expected thing for folks in his chunk of the aristocracy.

271
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,080
Speaker 2: By the time he's a young adult, de Coubartine has

272
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,959
Speaker 2: decided he wants to study law and history, and he

273
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,960
Speaker 2: seems to have kind of thoroughly concluded that like my

274
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:43,520
Speaker 2: father's France failed, right, like the culture in which I

275
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 2: was raised in is a failure, and we need to

276
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,960
Speaker 2: make changes, which he's not wrong about. At age twenty,

277
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,600
Speaker 2: he encounters a book called Tom Brown's School Days. This

278
00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,720
Speaker 2: is a really influential, maybe the most influential piece of

279
00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,040
Speaker 2: fiction and educational history, because it both because of how

280
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,600
Speaker 2: popular it is, like the English boarding school system had

281
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,480
Speaker 2: existed before, because this book is literally about it, and

282
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,640
Speaker 2: in fact it's like fictionalizing an actual English like basically

283
00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,559
Speaker 2: principal Tom Arnold, who was like Arnold, Yes, yes, that

284
00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,200
Speaker 2: Tom Arnold. He has deep roots. Deep roots has also

285
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 2: been around for a while yes, yeah, and was Yes,

286
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,280
Speaker 2: this was the thing he did before he wasn't what

287
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,880
Speaker 2: was it, coneheads? He was in the stupids, the stupids,

288
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:32,280
Speaker 2: the stupids, Jesus Christ. So this is one of the

289
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 2: most influential pieces of fiction and educational history because not

290
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 2: only does it like create the cultural image of the

291
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,320
Speaker 2: English boarding school system as this incredibly like renowned and

292
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,640
Speaker 2: like it's part of why people from all over the

293
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 2: rest of the world start enrolling like rich people in

294
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,280
Speaker 2: English boarding schools. Right, is the success of this book

295
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 2: and it also launches the genre of boarding school novel

296
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 2: as like a thing. So this is literally like there,

297
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,800
Speaker 2: this is like the start of the DNA line that

298
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 2: ends in Harry Potter is Tom brown schooldays, Right, these

299
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,600
Speaker 2: are directly related, Like we get Harry Potter because of

300
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 2: Tom Brown School Days.

301
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:08,280
Speaker 3: It's like the.

302
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,680
Speaker 2: First ya novel. Yeah, I love this, Yeah, I mean

303
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,880
Speaker 2: it has a lot to do with that. Yeah, Tom

304
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 2: Brown school Days focused on the Rugby School, which is

305
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,840
Speaker 2: again run by Tom Arnold. In one later article on

306
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 2: the subject, a guy named Volker Cluges rights. Arnold sought

307
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,600
Speaker 2: to educate his students by including sports and community games

308
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,480
Speaker 2: for Christian gentlemen. I was confronted with something completely new

309
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 2: and unexpected, athletic education. Kubertine wrote, Now, Arnold actually didn't

310
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,840
Speaker 2: like sports. He's one of those guys where he's like,

311
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 2: I don't actually, I think this is kind of like

312
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 2: at a little common for me. But if you don't

313
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 2: give boys away to tire themselves out, they'll masturbate. So

314
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 2: this is the best option.

315
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 3: That it's always someone trying to stop you from coming

316
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,400
Speaker 3: as a team. Well, yeah, the fuck.

317
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 2: The entire route of like Victorian civilization is stopping boys

318
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 2: from coming. That's all that we stop this. In an

319
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,440
Speaker 2: article for The Daily Beast, Candida Moss rights Arnold believed

320
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,960
Speaker 2: that in order to create Christian gentlemen, he had to

321
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 2: replace bad impulses with good. Arnold himself wasn't a particular

322
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 2: fan of sports, but he preferred it to fighting or poaching.

323
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,800
Speaker 2: If you exhaust young men and produce and promote the

324
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,520
Speaker 2: idea of sportsmanship, you will keep them out of trouble.

325
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 2: So Coopertine, he takes on this and he's going to

326
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,400
Speaker 2: take it further. Right, But this idea that like sporting,

327
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:32,520
Speaker 2: kills bad impulses in young men, right, and he's not

328
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,080
Speaker 2: as obsessed with coming as he is with violence, right,

329
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 2: but he's going to become increasingly convinced that, like somewhere

330
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,640
Speaker 2: in sporting lies the solution to like all of these

331
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:42,960
Speaker 2: wars that keep happening.

332
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I kind of feel that there's there's something to

333
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 3: that there where you're just like, what if, like instead

334
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,360
Speaker 3: of you know, everyone just like killing a bunch of

335
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,680
Speaker 3: people every few years, Like, what if we all just

336
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,560
Speaker 3: fucking had a magic the Gathering tournament and figure it out? Yeah,

337
00:16:58,560 --> 00:16:59,360
Speaker 3: you know, I get it.

338
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've I've seen some like not quite sports riots,

339
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,400
Speaker 2: but I've seen some like really rowdy fights over sports

340
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 2: in Germany between like German and French fans. And I

341
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,120
Speaker 2: thought at time was like, well, this is a real

342
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,879
Speaker 2: move up from World War One, Right, this is so

343
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,359
Speaker 2: much better than the last time you guys got angry

344
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:15,960
Speaker 2: at each other.

345
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,720
Speaker 3: No one's getting gassed, you know, everyone is just kind

346
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,160
Speaker 3: of like using a couple of teeth.

347
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:21,120
Speaker 2: What an innovation.

348
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:23,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

349
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,800
Speaker 2: Cooper teen spent the eighteen eighties traveling around the world

350
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,400
Speaker 2: through the US and UK and Switzerland and meeting all

351
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,720
Speaker 2: sorts of advocates for youth sports and sporting organ associations.

352
00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,919
Speaker 2: Particularly influential was a meeting with the Peace League, and

353
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,159
Speaker 2: this is an activist group who taught that boxing was

354
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,480
Speaker 2: a great way to like prevent war, right like if

355
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,959
Speaker 2: you if and I guess partly, yeah, I get that,

356
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:52,200
Speaker 2: like giving people a healthy outlet for physical aggression could

357
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,240
Speaker 2: be useful in that, but also there's a lot of

358
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 2: head injuries that come with boxing, and we know that

359
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,360
Speaker 2: head injuries, yeah, can contribute directly to war.

360
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, this is it's a there's a pros and

361
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 3: cons to this idea. But I get it.

362
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:06,840
Speaker 2: I get it.

363
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 3: You know, you know you can see the logic stop war.

364
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 3: You know they were ultimately wrong, yes, but I get

365
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,320
Speaker 3: trying it out for a little bit.

366
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,840
Speaker 2: It's not like, yeah it is. It's one of those

367
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,879
Speaker 2: things I both want to make some bit jokes because

368
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,439
Speaker 2: of how like wrong this guy is, but also I

369
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,040
Speaker 2: can see the logic like at the time, you can't,

370
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,520
Speaker 2: he's not. It's it's not dumb or like a shitty

371
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,159
Speaker 2: for like wanting this to work. I also wish it

372
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 2: had worked.

373
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,679
Speaker 3: It's better logic than you know, Oh, this will stop

374
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,920
Speaker 3: you know, kids from coming. Yeah, that's that of course

375
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,840
Speaker 3: is not going to bed. Well, I don't even know

376
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,640
Speaker 3: what their thought process is because I've never been too

377
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 3: tired to janet.

378
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no young man ever has been, No

379
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:51,360
Speaker 2: young man has ever been.

380
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 3: We all always have a little extra room for jell O,

381
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 3: you know what I mean.

382
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's it's also like he's got better logic

383
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,080
Speaker 2: than the guys who are like, well, we've built the

384
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,920
Speaker 2: least gun ever, surely this will stop war.

385
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,679
Speaker 3: Yeah. No one's gonna want to get in front of

386
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 3: one of these guys. So war's over.

387
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. No one's going to feed an entire generation of

388
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 2: their young men into these things.

389
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 3: We built a giant human meat grinder. Anyways, war is

390
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 3: over now, right, pulling more men into it all cruel fate.

391
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,480
Speaker 2: So Cooper teen wrote that boxing could be a peacemaker

392
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 2: and still you know again, this, this whole process is

393
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,159
Speaker 2: what culminates in him being inspired to revive the Olympics. Right,

394
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,439
Speaker 2: he revives the Olympics because he has this messianic belief

395
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 2: in the power of sports to end global conflict. And

396
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,840
Speaker 2: I think he's mostly when he talks about ending war,

397
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 2: he's not talking about ending all these little colonial wars.

398
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 2: He's primarily talking about like avoiding another European war, right, yeah, right, right, right.

399
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, the war that's that will cost more lives

400
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,160
Speaker 3: for you know, his own people. Where's the nice colonial war?

401
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 3: Is just like no, that's just a simple eradication. Yeah,

402
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 3: we don't even hear about that on the news, really exactly,

403
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 3: that's not even people don't worry about that. Shaw, you

404
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 3: kill all them.

405
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,160
Speaker 2: So, as Da Kobertine wrote, let us export rowers, runners

406
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 2: and fencers. There is the free trade of the future,

407
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 2: and on the day when it is introduced within the

408
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 2: walls of old Europe, the cause of peace will have

409
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 2: received a new and mighty stay. Sure, it's a nice idea. Yeah.

410
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 2: Eventually he convenes a Congress eighteen and obviously I am

411
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 2: YadA YadA ing a lot about this process because we

412
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 2: don't need to get into the weeds of it. But

413
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 2: they have a Congress in eighteen ninety three to decide,

414
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,239
Speaker 2: like he and a bunch of other folks who are

415
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 2: part of like major sporting organizations in the West, how

416
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 2: are we going to revive the Olympic Games?

417
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 3: Right?

418
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 2: It is decided that these games should be for amateur

419
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 2: athletes only, not paid professionals. This is the first of

420
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 2: what are going to become mini breaks with the original Olympics.

421
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 2: In the ancient Greek Olympics, there was no rule against

422
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 2: them making money for winning, right, you could bet on

423
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 2: ship like. They didn't have any problem with that. There's also,

424
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 2: as far as we know, there were no rules against doping. Now,

425
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 2: doping was different in ancient Greece. We know that they

426
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 2: would like eat a lot of beef because they thought

427
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 2: it was like it worn't the way steroids.

428
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 3: You know, if you eat a lot of beef, then

429
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 3: you become strong as how everyone knows it's simple.

430
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, beef makes you cowstraw.

431
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you eat whole horse, you become run as

432
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 3: fast as horse. It's simple logic. Everyone knows you could

433
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 3: fly real hard. Everybody knows this.

434
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,120
Speaker 2: Now. The other thing I should notice that, like at

435
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 2: the start of the revived Olympics, there are no rules

436
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: against doping, and in fact, people are going to do

437
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 2: lots of drugs in the early Olympics and it's fine. Yeah,

438
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 2: I'm okay with that.

439
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,159
Speaker 3: Early Olympics. Yeah, you know, that's they they were figuring

440
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 3: it out.

441
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 2: It's considered it actually may have been less common then

442
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,439
Speaker 2: just because it was considered ungentlemanly, but it wasn't like

443
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 2: forbidden for a while, right, And so a lot of

444
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 2: times people wouldn't do dope just because it wouldn't dope

445
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 2: just because like, well I am a gentleman, you know.

446
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

447
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 2: Anyway, there's a lot of confusion in trying to understand

448
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 2: what the Olympics were meant to be when they were revived,

449
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 2: in the use of the word amateur, because like if

450
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 2: I were, say it were to say, oh, that golf

451
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 2: player is a real amateur, you would interpret that to mean, well,

452
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 2: he's not very good, right, yeah, you would not. An

453
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 2: average person would never look at a world class Olympic

454
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 2: gymnast and go, wow, what an amateur? Right, Like, that's

455
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 2: just not how we use that word. Yes, but in

456
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 2: the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds, that word

457
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: had a very different meaning. And I want to quote

458
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: from an article for Vice by la Jennings here. Sports

459
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 2: in the nineteenth century remained a luxury of the middle

460
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 2: and upper classes, with lower class athletes routinely excluded from participation.

461
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 2: The rules for the eighteen seventy eight Henley Regatta declared

462
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 2: no person shall be considered an amateur orsman or sculler

463
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: who is or has been by trader employment for wages,

464
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 2: a mechanic, artisan, or aborer. Sports historian Alan Gutman explains

465
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 2: that in its earliest institution, rules of amateurism were invented

466
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 2: by the Victorian middle and upper classes to exclude the

467
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 2: lower orders from the play of the leisure class.

468
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that sounds about right though. That's yeah, that's

469
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 3: kind of what it is. I mean. Listen, yeah, whenever

470
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 3: people talk about, you know, NCAA basketball players like trying

471
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 3: to get a little bit of money for their the

472
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 3: fact that these schools use their images and sell merch

473
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 3: based on them, but they can't make a single dime,

474
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 3: it does feel very similar. It's like, no, we've put

475
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 3: these rules in place so that you stay poor, yeah,

476
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 3: and we can make some money.

477
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And that is we are talking about the

478
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: origins of why the NCAA be that way, right, Like

479
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 2: that all has its roots in this and in fact,

480
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 2: the bastard for the avery brundage is the guy who

481
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 2: is like has a major role and why the NCAA

482
00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: adopts those like student athlete regulations. Yeah, but it's important

483
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: to know that like kind of where we are now

484
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: with like these student athletes, and it's like, well, you know,

485
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 2: we can make millions of dollars off of you, and

486
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 2: you can mortgage your body and your future health, but

487
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: you can't make any money off of it because then

488
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 2: you wouldn't be an amateur. That has its origins, and

489
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 2: like the origins of that are these rich people being like, well,

490
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: poor people like sports too, and they're often better at

491
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 2: them than us. So let's just say, if you make

492
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: money doing anything, you can't compete with us. If you

493
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: have to work for a living, you can't. You can't

494
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 2: play our games. These are just for amateurs.

495
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: That is exactly why it was an invented. Absolutely were

496
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 3: just like, man, these guys are way too good at rowing.

497
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And to be fair, Kopertine and the Olympics

498
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 2: are actually a step forward from this very regressive. It's

499
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 2: still regressive by modern standards, but from these you know

500
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 2: that eighteen seventy eight, we like, yeah, nobody can take

501
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: part in this if you have to work for a living. Right.

502
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 2: Quote when Peer de Kubertine called for the revival of

503
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: the Olympic Games in eighteen ninety two, primary discussion amongst

504
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: the elite group of educators and public figures who formed

505
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: the first version of the Olympic Committee was to determine

506
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 2: who would be allowed to compete in the games. In

507
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 2: other words, who counts as an amateur, because this word

508
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 2: is still very important to them, but they are going

509
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 2: to kind of redefine it.

510
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 3: Right.

511
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 2: Initially it had meant like, well, only rich people can

512
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 2: have the time to become world class athletes because they

513
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: don't have to, like work for a living. And it's

514
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 2: going to evolve through this period. In eighteen ninety four,

515
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 2: the workers rights movement has made enough inroads that even

516
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 2: the kind of out of touch elites that Da kuber

517
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 2: Teen works with to start the Olympics, they're not going

518
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: to say if you have to work for wages, you

519
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 2: can't compete, right, But they are going to try and

520
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 2: exclude working class people anyway by basically saying you just

521
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: can't make money from sports, right, which still excludes people

522
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: because only rich people can afford to like practice enough

523
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: to become world class without ever making money on it. Right,

524
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 2: it still mostly excludes people. I mean, I don't know,

525
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 2: I mean I guess it's like someone if they run

526
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 2: for a living because they have a job as you know,

527
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: a circus performer running away from this crazy, crazed lion.

528
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 2: But like, for the most part, it's like, yeah, no

529
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: one's playing basketball on any other level except for right

530
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 2: professionally for money. Yeah, and there is there's also a

531
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 2: degree of a legitimate concern, which is that these guys,

532
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: as much as they hate to admit it, recognize that,

533
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 2: like pro boxers are always going to be better like

534
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: and most pro boxers are like poor people who came

535
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 2: up fighting like the nastiest kind of fights you can

536
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: fucking conceive, right, yea to be able to become like

537
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 2: make a lot of money as a boxer, that guy,

538
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: some like rich dude is like the fourteenth Earl of

539
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 2: chong Seberry or whatever. That guy is going to get

540
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 2: his skull turned into powder by eighteen nineties. Mike Tyson, Right, we.

541
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 3: Must ben anyone who does it professionally less we get

542
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,719
Speaker 3: our heads mashed in by an irishman.

543
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, a man whose ears are entirely calliflower.

544
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not allowed.

545
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 2: No, he can't compete, No, no, not.

546
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 3: So.

547
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: Eventually they come up with a new definition for amateur,

548
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: which is somebody who is profited specifically for their participation

549
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 2: in a sport that they want to compete in for

550
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: the Olympics. As Alan Goodman notes, through most of the

551
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 2: twentieth century, amateurism was defended with the argument that fair

552
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: play and good sportsmanship are possible only when sports are

553
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 2: in athlete's avocation, never his or her vocation. Kind of

554
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: what's going on here, We're going to see this with

555
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: when we finally do get to Avery Brundage. There's this

556
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 2: attitude among like the wealthy and the aristocracy, who all

557
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: have a lot of money, that there's something gross about capitalism.

558
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 2: Still they are the winners of this system, but they

559
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 2: recognize that like the way in which we compete under

560
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 2: capitalism kind of ruins fun stuff.

561
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 3: But the way of doing that yeah you know, yeah,

562
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: yeah that's true.

563
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, but their way of dealing it with it is

564
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 2: to just try to keep poor people away. Yeah. So

565
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: the first actual Olympics is going to hit in eighteen

566
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 2: ninety six. It is, you know, more gender woke than

567
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 2: the original Olympics. Women had not been allowed to participate

568
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 2: in the original Olympics. The ancient Greeks not really big

569
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: fans of women.

570
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, they didn't even fuck them have Yeah, not.

571
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: Really not famous for that, so they you know, the

572
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 2: new Olympics is going to be a lot better at that,

573
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: but it is biased heavily towards men and women of means.

574
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: In the longer term, the fact that this veneration of

575
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: amateurism is initially bundled up in the heart of the

576
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: whole idea will provide an opportunity for Olympic officials to

577
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: exact execute petty grievances and fuck with athletes they don't

578
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: like for whatever reason. We are talking bullshit, power trip stuff,

579
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: and the king of that kind of shit is going

580
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: to be the future International Olympic Committee President, Avery Brandage.

581
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: We finally got into our bastard. So that's take an

582
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: ad break here and then we'll come back to talk

583
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: about Avery. We're back. Do you like the Olympics, Matt

584
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 2: like watching them and stuff? This is an Olympic year,

585
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: I think.

586
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I don't like them, nor watch them, but

587
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 3: when it's on, it's something that like occasionally I'll just

588
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 3: like turn on a TV and I'll be like, oh

589
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 3: shit losing, you know, or like, oh that guy's doing

590
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 3: a shot put, and I'll sit and watch for a second,

591
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 3: and then I'll think to myself, like, how the fuck

592
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: did they fill up all those seats? Yes, usually the

593
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 3: question I have, But I don't mind people who love it,

594
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, if you like watching people throw a

595
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 3: javelin like power to you. I wish I was that

596
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 3: easily entertained.

597
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm torn because, like you, I don't really like

598
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: watching the Olympics, and I also recognize that they often

599
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: destroy the cities that they're hosted in one hundred Yeah,

600
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: I kind of think we should have just picked one

601
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: place to do them and right, yeah, and destroyed that

602
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 2: and destroyed that. Yeah, really fuck up a single city

603
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: in Greece. Yeah, exactly.

604
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're not using.

605
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 2: It, no, or do it in like downtown Dallas. Just

606
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: absolutely annihilate, like force all of these international dignitaries to

607
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 2: get on the fucking high five for seventeen and a

608
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 2: half hours.

609
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 3: They gotta go to Dallas two years fucking Dallas.

610
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 2: Just absolutely take take one of the worst traffics that.

611
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: I mean, they're trying to do it in La that

612
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: that won't be any better.

613
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 3: I was. My mom prides herself in letting me know

614
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 3: that I was conceived during the eighty four Olympics.

615
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but which event I don't know.

616
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 3: I don't want to she just says it. I run away.

617
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 2: I don't want to know where she fucked and during

618
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: when I don't. Don't take this the wrong way, but

619
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: you do seem like a shot put baby.

620
00:30:59,360 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: I don't take that.

621
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: I mean that as a compliment. Yeah, that's yeah for sure,

622
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: honest sport.

623
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, top heavy guy. Let's see what you're saying.

624
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: I didn't mate that.

625
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 3: So balls of steel that's what you read.

626
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, there we go. Avery Brundage, let's talk about Avery.

627
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: Born on September twenty eighth, eighteen eighty seven, in Detroit, Michigan.

628
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Avery would be nine years old for the

629
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: very first Olympics. He was one of the people the

630
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: aristocrats behind the early Olympic Games actually wanted to keep

631
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 2: out because he is definitely working class. He's going to

632
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: be very rich, but he is born a working class kid.

633
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: His dad is a stonecutter.

634
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 3: Damn.

635
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like that's the og working class.

636
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the original fucking working class job. Yeah, stonecutter

637
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 3: and pitt digger.

638
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: And in classic working class fashion, his father abandons the

639
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: family when Avery is five, which is a thing people

640
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: could get away with a lot more easy, but easily

641
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: back before the internet.

642
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can just walk, just leave.

643
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, he goes for a packet of smokes. Where's that gone?

644
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 3: Forever?

645
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: Gonna?

646
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 3: Who are you gonna ask?

647
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: You're the man of the house now, Avery, I hope

648
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: you know what all taxes. Avery has one younger brother, Charles,

649
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: and they spend their early childhood bouncing around with relatives.

650
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 2: We don't get a lot of context is how this

651
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: impacted him, but it doesn't interfere with his schooling. He

652
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: is an excellent student. He wins an essay contest in

653
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: nineteen oh one at age thirteen that secures him a

654
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 2: trip to see President McKinley's second inauguration. Yeah, he really

655
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: got in on the McKinley train right before the end

656
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: of it. There is that the one who oh, yeah, yeah,

657
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: get he gets got yeah Anton shoh gosh.

658
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like an anarchist kills him.

659
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: There was That's the one one that we got. Yeah,

660
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: there's a there's a pretty good song from a musical

661
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 2: about that, sung by Doogie Howser, So check that one out. Yeah,

662
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: in general, aside from the dad abandoned them thing. He's,

663
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: you know, not a bad early nineteen hundreds childhood. He survives,

664
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: so that's doing good. You know, he makes it past

665
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: all the cholera and the Spanish flu, so you know,

666
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: he's not doing bad. He makes a living as a teenagers,

667
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: like a boy delivering newspapers. It's kind of unclear to

668
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: me how poor he really is. One source I've read

669
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: claims he had to sell newspapers to help his mother

670
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 2: buy bread, and that when he got into sports in

671
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: high school he had to build his own equipment to

672
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: be able to play. I kind of have come to

673
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: think some of this is myth making right. He is

674
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 2: definitely working class, but he has a big family that

675
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: seems to have been very supportive of he and his brother.

676
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: And his uncle Ed is the Republican leader of Chicago's

677
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 2: North Side during a time that means you are taking

678
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: every bride conceivable like his his His uncle Ed is

679
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: the Attorney General of Illinois. Eventually that man is Batman

680
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 2: is getting so bribe.

681
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no way, okay, this is really poking holes

682
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 3: in the whole working class here thing here.

683
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, So one thing everyone agrees upon is that Brundage

684
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 2: was an exceptional athlete. He becomes a track star near

685
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 2: the end of his public school life, and when he

686
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: graduates and moves to the U of Illinois to study

687
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: civil engineering, he plays basketball and continues to do track.

688
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,479
Speaker 2: He is sort of a stereotypical jock. He's a popular kid.

689
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: He's the leader of his fraternity. He's one of those

690
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: guys who would have posted quotes from Friday Night Lights

691
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 2: on their Facebook wall every hour and a half if

692
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 2: he had lived to see the modern era.

693
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 3: So a cool guy, So a cool guy, cool guy,

694
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 3: My favorite guy from high school. Why is that to

695
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 3: show that?

696
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: Because I grew up in Texas, Sophie, No, it is

697
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: a vibe.

698
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 3: That's great.

699
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: My high school sports stadium was more expensive than most

700
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: state sports stadiums, and my high school didn't not have

701
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: a good football team. That's just we just had a

702
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: ten million dollar stadium because you do. Yeah, like you've

703
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: got to be ready in case someone gets good. Yeah,

704
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: so you might have a kid who's really good at

705
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 2: some point, or that.

706
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: You find Kyle Kyle Chandler to be very handsome.

707
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 2: Man, I don't even know who that is.

708
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 3: Both things can be true. Sophie.

709
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: I saw Sophie. I didn't watch my parents watch that show.

710
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: I avoided it, like the plague. I just know what

711
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: it means to people speaking of what sports means to avery.

712
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: Since they don't have Facebook, he has to settle with

713
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 2: writing articles for his school paper.

714
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 3: In Facebook, he would have found his dad.

715
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: He would have found his dad. But no, but no,

716
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: So he's got to write shit like this, which I

717
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 2: founded in nineteen seventy two Sports Illustrated article that's talking

718
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 2: about his life. One of his contributions was entitled the

719
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 2: football field is a sifter of men. No better place

720
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: than a football field could be chosen to test out

721
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 2: a man. Here a fellow is stripped of most of

722
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 2: the finer little things contributed by ages of civilization, and

723
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 2: his virgin nature is exposed to the hot fire of battle.

724
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 2: It is man against man, and there is no thorough

725
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 2: a mode of exposing one's true self. Oh yeah, you've

726
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: definitely exposed your urgin nature. Yeah, man, football the crucible

727
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: of manhood.

728
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 3: Touch one, boob, bro.

729
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: You want a fucking game that's a crucible of manhood? Uh,

730
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: there's a Burskashi, the Afghan version of polo, which is

731
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: played on horseback with the corpse of a goat as

732
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 2: the ball. That's a crucible of manhood, right there. Yeah, yeah,

733
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 2: play some burskashi, right, don't get me this football ship.

734
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 2: You guys didn't even know what to tackle back then.

735
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 2: So Avery is, Look, they hadn't invented steroids. It couldn't

736
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: have been very good football.

737
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 3: No.

738
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were wearing all leather exactly normally.

739
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 3: You know they were the people were definitely getting hurt,

740
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: but yes, from him, very little, but not in a.

741
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 2: Way that was as impressive as the way our current

742
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 2: professional monsters hurt each other.

743
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you don't know about c Yeah.

744
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 2: So Avery is a smart kid who's obsessed with sports,

745
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 2: and like Kubertine, he comes to see them as a

746
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: potential remedy for every problem of modernity. Now, Kubertine is

747
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 2: obsessed with peace because you know, his childhood had been

748
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: defined by a war and avoiding conflict through sportsmanship. Avery,

749
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: on the other hand, seems to because he is a

750
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 2: poor kid who makes a lot of money as an adult,

751
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: he comes to see athletic competition as proof of the

752
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,240
Speaker 2: fact of the wisdom and goodness of capitalism. Right, because

753
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: he's good at capitalism right, and so sports has to

754
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 2: mirror the thing that he has found. Meaning in sure,

755
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: Avery gets a job as a construction superintendent for a

756
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: major architectural firm, and he personally supervised the construction of

757
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: three percent of the buildings built in Chicago during the

758
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: years that he had this job.

759
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,720
Speaker 3: So he is very real money.

760
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 2: He has. Oh the bribes. This guy's taking my god, Chris.

761
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 2: Throughout his early to mid twenties, he continued to compete

762
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: as an amateur, in fact, working a day job completely

763
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 2: outside of the field of athletic endeavor. Avery Brundage was

764
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 2: the very model of what the Olympics now meant by

765
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 2: the term amateur. Now, the early nineteen hundreds are a

766
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 2: different time in athletic competition, and Avery was into some

767
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: stuff that I was going to say was very weird

768
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 2: sports shit until I realized this sport is still a

769
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: sport today. We just don't talk about it because it's

770
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: kind of lame. But I'm gonna run from a Sports

771
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: Illustrated article about his chief sport. Although heel and toe walking,

772
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 2: the discus and shot put were his specialties. He became

773
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: a devotee to the torches of the pentathlon, to cathlon

774
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: and most excruciatingly of all, what he fondly calls the

775
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: old American all around. Now, I'm not shitting on the

776
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: pentathlon and the cathlon and stuff. Those are like really difficult,

777
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 2: physically demanding things. It's just incredibly funny to me that

778
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 2: heel to toe walking is a sport.

779
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 3: I still I'm trying to picture heel to toe walking?

780
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: Is it just? Uh?

781
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 3: Is that gallivanting?

782
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:11,479
Speaker 2: What is it looks like if you did you ever

783
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 2: live in a place where like there would be like

784
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 2: groups of usually like oh, and I don't say this

785
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: to insult them, usually like middle aged women who would

786
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:18,919
Speaker 2: have like a walking group together.

787
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, speedwalk, my mom, speed walk.

788
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 2: It looks like that to me. But when people describe it,

789
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 2: they're always like, this is a shockingly intent race. Walking

790
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: is actually one of the most intense and physically demanding

791
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: sports you can do. And I'm sure they're right, but

792
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,479
Speaker 2: it also does I don't believe them that the state

793
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:37,919
Speaker 2: of time?

794
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 3: Did you picture at Hills Park? Yes? I did. It

795
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 3: was just like, this is the first thing I thought

796
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 3: of it. I was like, I've seen all these old

797
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 3: ladies doing the speed walking and I'm.

798
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 2: Willing to believe it's good exercise by sure. As an

799
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: adult and president of the Olympic Committee, Avery Brundage told

800
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: Sports Illustrated that an eight hundred and eighty yard heel

801
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 2: in towalk he did was quote the closest to man

802
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 2: can come to experiencing the pangs of childbirth.

803
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, it's possible. I don't know, man,

804
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 3: but I bet it's taxing. But the problem is is

805
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 3: that you can't think about it without being like, is

806
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 3: there Olympic crab walking?

807
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: Is that also a thing that doesn't seem that bad?

808
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 3: I make it silly.

809
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: My mom did speed walking, and the only thing she

810
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: ever compared to childbirth was kidney stones, which seems to

811
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 2: be pretty widely done. So I assume kidney stones are

812
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,959
Speaker 2: a comparable experience in some ways, but I've never had either.

813
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: I've never had either, so.

814
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 3: I would rather do heel to toe walking than push

815
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 3: kiddystone through.

816
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: My heel to toe walk all day long, all day long. Anyway,

817
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 2: racewalking is still an Olympic event, even though I made

818
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 2: fun of it. So if you're a racewalker out there,

819
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 2: I'm sure we're going to get the racewalking hive get

820
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 2: really angry at us on Reddit or something. I'm not

821
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: trying to shit talk your sport, but it's very silly

822
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 2: that he compares this to childbirth. But he is a

823
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: really good athlete. In nineteen fourteen, at age twenty six,

824
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 2: Brundage won the US championship in the American All Around,

825
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 2: which is like, it's a series of ten events the

826
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 2: one hundred yard dash, a high jump, high hurdle, shot put,

827
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 2: broad jump, fifty six pound weight throw, pole vault, and

828
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 2: then that eight hundred and eighty foot walk, plus like

829
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 2: a hammer throw and a run, all done in a

830
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: single afternoon, which is like, that's a whole thing to do, right,

831
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: That is a that's a lot. He's very good at it.

832
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 2: Sports writers in nineteen eighteen call him the greatest athlete

833
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: of his day. So that's all very impressive. You could

834
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: look at Avery Brundage's early life as an almost seamless

835
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: path of success from poverty to wealth to athletic greatness,

836
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 2: with one gap in his resume of perfection, and that

837
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 2: gap is this. In nineteen twelve, he partook in his

838
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 2: only Olympics as a competitor in Illinois, he had been

839
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 2: a star.

840
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 3: But in the.

841
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 2: Olympics he finishes sixth in the pentathlon and fifteen in

842
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,439
Speaker 2: the decathlon. And if we're looking at objective terms, neither

843
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: of those is bad. You know, Yeah, you made it

844
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 2: to the Olympics. That's pretty good, right, you got to

845
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 2: hang on in the Olympic village.

846
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 3: That's sick.

847
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to. I mean, I assume they had

848
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 2: less sex. Bat I assume at least Avery wasn't having

849
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: that much sex. Yeah. This guy about race walking, Yeah

850
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 2: yeah he didn't. He doesn't have much game. Anytime he

851
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 2: meets a lady, he starts talking about how he knows

852
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 2: the pain of childbirth, walk the virgin.

853
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 3: Virtues of heel to till walking. You'll never understand it.

854
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 2: But he actually drops out of the pentathlon before finishing

855
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 2: because he realizes he can't get enough points to actually meddle,

856
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 2: which I don't know. My kind kind of seems like

857
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 2: bad sportsmanship. But I've never been to the Olympics.

858
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 3: I don't know.

859
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,479
Speaker 2: Jim Thorpe, the best athlete in the field at the time,

860
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: wins gold in both events. Jim Thorpe is a Native

861
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: American athlete. Right, this is going to be very important

862
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: because later in life, Avery is going to nurse something

863
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: of a grudge against Thorpe. When Avery becomes president of

864
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: the International Olympic Committee, Thorpe loses his medals, and there

865
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 2: was like a move to like, come on, give him back.

866
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 2: As you know read he was a great athlete, and

867
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: Brundage is always going to be like, no, fuck him.

868
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: He broke the rules right, and some people will suggest

869
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: maybe it's because he was kind of, you know, jealous. Still,

870
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: he never got over loosing. Despite his frustration, or perhaps

871
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 2: because of it. The whole experience of participating in the

872
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: Olympics hit Avery as a sort of religious experience. He

873
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 2: later wrote this, what social, racial, religious, or political prejudices

874
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: of any kind might have existed were soon forgotten in

875
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: sportsmen from all over the world, with different ideas, assorted viewpoints,

876
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 2: in various manners of living, mingled on the field and

877
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 2: off with the utmost friendliness transported by an overflowing Olympic spirit.

878
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 2: My conversion, along with many others to Kubertin's religion, the

879
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: Olympic movement was complete. And I kind of think that

880
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 2: what's happening here is that like people didn't travel as

881
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: much internationally back then it was harder, and he like

882
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 2: goes overseas as a young man and makes a bunch

883
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 2: of friends and has an intense physical experience, and he

884
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 2: walks away in the same way people do when they

885
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 2: go to raves and stuff, now festivals, Right, he has

886
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 2: that kind of This is like burning man, right, yeah.

887
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like, damn you know. It's just like it's

888
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 3: the only place in the world where you can feel

889
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 3: at one with all of humanity, right, and it's like,

890
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 3: what are you talking about. It's like bonoouyeah.

891
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 2: Exactly, And like any kind of person who has that

892
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 2: sort of experience as a young person, he's going to

893
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 2: spend some time convinced this is the way to save

894
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: the world, and unlike most people, he never moves past that. Right,

895
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 2: It's normal to take ecstasy at a really good concert

896
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,919
Speaker 2: and be convinced that you found the secret to war.

897
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 3: But like, yeah, right, a few years later taking ecstasy

898
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 3: just to play some video games at home, and you're

899
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 3: just like, I have a drug product.

900
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 2: Oh, this is no longer as fun as it was.

901
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 2: So it was not uncommon for dedicated Olympians, particularly those

902
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: who went on to work for the Olympics professionally to

903
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 2: kind of worship the Games. This is a religion to

904
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 2: the people who are most into it. It really is.

905
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: In his book Berlin Games, Guy Walters writes Kubertine was

906
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 2: almost regarded as Christ, and Ballet Latour, who is like

907
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,479
Speaker 2: his second in the Olympic committee, as his disciple. These

908
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: men were infalliable because they embodied an idealism that far

909
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: transcended the grubby, quotidian strivings of humanity. It was a

910
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: pagan idealism. It's pageantry, godless. But at Chauvinu's adherents were

911
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: nothing less than fanatics, men for whom no other point

912
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 2: of view was acceptable. If anyone obstructed their ideals, then

913
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: they would be subjected to the most vicious ad hominem attacks.

914
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 2: So they have a toxic fan base. Yeah, breaking new

915
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 2: ground there, the Star Wars nerds. Yes, yes, yes, this

916
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 2: is like how everything works now, but it is noted

917
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 2: at the time as being pretty unique. Right, there's nothing

918
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 2: quite like the Olympics and it's toxic fan base.

919
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. I told them that I didn't really like the

920
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 3: heeled to tow running and they called me a slur.

921
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they mailed a bomb to my dad's house

922
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: because I joked about walking not being hard. Starting in

923
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 2: nineteen nineteen, Brundage began to take on more because, again,

924
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 2: by nineteen nineteen, he's not old, but he's like old

925
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 2: for competitive athletics. So he starts taking on more and

926
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: more roles in sports administration. He initially takes on roles

927
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 2: in the Amateur Athletic Association or AAU, which what is

928
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 2: at one point the rival of the NCAA. This is

929
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 2: one of those things where they both kind of come

930
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 2: up at the same time and they're kind of trying

931
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 2: to do at least very similar things, and so they

932
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 2: hate each other, right, Right, there's like.

933
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 3: No, I'm going to these kids off.

934
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to rip off these children. I'm the pain.

935
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 2: They like to desploit them. They pretty nasty fight for

936
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 2: a while, They're like there's a period where athletes will

937
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: get blacklisted for playing in like NCAA events or AAU

938
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 2: events by the other group. Right, and Avery is actually

939
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 2: going to negotiate a detente between the AAU and the NCAA.

940
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 2: And part of how he does this is he offers

941
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 2: the NCAA the power to certify college students as amateurs. Right,

942
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, he is the start of all this. Now, yeah,

943
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 2: at the point he does it, college sports is not

944
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 2: an industry in the way that it is today. I

945
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 2: don't even think it's realistic to say he would have

946
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 2: conceived of sports period. Isn't like professional Like the best

947
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 2: professional players of the day are making decent money, but

948
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 2: not like they're not getting hundreds of millions of No,

949
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 2: they're not getting anything close to that, right right.

950
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 3: In fact, he probably thinks it's antithetical to sportsmanships to

951
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 3: make money off of him.

952
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 2: Yes, yes he does. And it's important to note that

953
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: while that is an excuse now for ripping these kids off,

954
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 2: at his time, there's not the industry behind it to

955
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 2: profit from. So I do think he comes by this

956
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: belief honestly, even though I think this is a really

957
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 2: dumb move. Yeah, I don't think he's actually I don't

958
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 2: think he's full of shit in the way that like

959
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 2: modern NCAA officials.

960
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, I know they all know what they're doing,

961
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 3: but he might have been just a little bit more

962
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 3: idealistic about it.

963
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 2: Right, right, right, And this is a bigger story than

964
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: we have the time to lay out. But the gist

965
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: of the problem that comes from this is that colleges

966
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 2: are going to immediately realize that taking a hard line

967
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: on amateur status allows them to let kids work for

968
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 2: free and take keep all the money for themselves. This

969
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 2: has led to something This leads very soon after Avery

970
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 2: does what he does. This leads to some horrific situations.

971
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: And I'm going to quote from an article by Ellie

972
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 2: Simpson and Lauren Chang Pratitt about this. Ray Denison was

973
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: an Army veteran, father of three, and a football player

974
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 2: for the Fort Lewis A and m Aggie's on a scholarship.

975
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 2: In September nineteen fifty five, he shattered the base of

976
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,359
Speaker 2: his skull on the knee of a ball carrier during

977
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: a game. He died thirty hours after the incident. Dennison's wife, Billy,

978
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 2: filed a lawsuit against Fort Lewis A and M for

979
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: workers compensation. The National Collegiate Athletic Association argued that Dennison

980
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 2: was a student athlete because he was on scholarship, meaning

981
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 2: he was not eligible to receive benefits. In its defense,

982
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: the NCAAA avoided such terms as club since that was

983
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 2: how professionals referred to their teams. The organization added an

984
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 2: amateurism pledge to every scholarship signing. The NCAAA won the

985
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 2: case coined by then NCAAA president Walter Byers. For that case,

986
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 2: the term student athlete is used as legal precedent to

987
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: limit the benefits and compensation college athletes can receive while

988
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 2: playing full time. So damn that happens. Not all that long,

989
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 2: you know, we're talking like forty years, a little less

990
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 2: than forty years, But like that is the ultimate result

991
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 2: of what Avery sets in motion. So in nineteen twenty eight,

992
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 2: Avery is elected the head of the American Olympic Association,

993
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: replacing Douglas MacArthur. The oh shit, not long after that's

994
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:53,280
Speaker 2: going to try a new Korea.

995
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. It's just doesn't that kind of

996
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 3: put to rest the whole idea of sports being a

997
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 3: way to stop war?

998
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 2: When Douglas McCarthy he's out. Avery's in nineteen twenty eight,

999
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 2: and by this point the new Olympics has gone through

1000
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 2: some growing pains of its own after almost twenty years

1001
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 2: establishing itself World War One through a wrench in the

1002
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 2: planned nineteen thirty six Berlin Games, the Games had been

1003
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 2: basically set before Hitler came to power, right, I mean,

1004
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 2: it's not in power in twenty eight, but like Hitler

1005
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 2: comes to power in thirty three, the Games had been

1006
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: set before then. And once the Nazis take over, this

1007
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 2: is going to become a serious issue. Right, but the

1008
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 2: games even before Hitler is in the fact that there's

1009
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 2: going to be an Olympics in Berlin is a big

1010
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 2: deal for Germany because after World War One, Germany is

1011
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 2: this Paria nation, right right, And the thirty six Olympics

1012
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 2: are seen by the Germans not wrongfully, as being like

1013
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 2: this is kind of us re entering the community of Nations. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1014
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,760
Speaker 2: Everything's cool now, everyone will be normal.

1015
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 3: This is the Weimar guys talking like, yeahly, by thirty

1016
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 3: six everything will be so fucking chilled. People will welcome

1017
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 3: us with open arms.

1018
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got some problems, but we'll still have some

1019
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 2: figured out by Set City five at the latest.

1020
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll just be a few years from now, but

1021
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 3: people will still love Germany's in don't worry. So.

1022
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 2: Brundage gets elected President of the American Olympic Committee in

1023
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty nine, a role he will hold until nineteen

1024
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 2: fifty three, but later that year disaster struck. The economy crashed,

1025
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 2: and Brundage lost his first company and the bulk of

1026
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 2: his fortune on the brink of bankruptcy. He responded to

1027
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,839
Speaker 2: losing his money by bullshitting that he was still rich.

1028
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 2: He describes going about town with quote his my chest

1029
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 2: out and not a nickel in my pocket. But no

1030
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 2: one knew except my accountants and secretary.

1031
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 3: He's like, He's like, I'm gonna still look rich even

1032
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 3: though I'm poor.

1033
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't know. His monicle just gets bigger

1034
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:00,760
Speaker 2: and bigger. It's like, oh, I just made more money again.

1035
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 2: He's described as having lost all his money, but the

1036
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 2: way he writes things, I kind of think he took

1037
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 2: a hit, but like he was not on the streets

1038
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 2: or anything, right, he was not. It just like hurt him, right,

1039
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 2: But he does start another company, he does recover and

1040
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 2: rebuild his fortune. I kind of think he just kind

1041
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,919
Speaker 2: of exaggerates the degree to which he was down during

1042
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 2: the depression, because it's more impressive if you come back

1043
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 2: from being completely broke, as opposed to like, well, I

1044
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 2: went from rich to kind of struggling middle class and

1045
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 2: then I got rich again, you know.

1046
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's no rapper who was just like, started

1047
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 3: from the middle.

1048
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, started from honestly doing pretty okay.

1049
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I started from the top, still at the top.

1050
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 3: Everything's fine, has always been.

1051
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 2: Fine, either way, whatever the truth is. He would later

1052
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 2: mock businessmen who lost their money and committed suicide and

1053
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 2: the depression, like, saying that they lacked quote, the character

1054
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 2: building discipline of competitive sport. Wouldn't have shot himself if

1055
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 2: he'd done more heel and toe.

1056
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 3: There's all these people jumping out of buildings. Have you

1057
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 3: tried jumping over a hurdle?

1058
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, over something slightly higher than you know you can

1059
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 2: jump over, and seeing how well you do?

1060
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 3: You know, stop shooting yourself in the head. Stop just

1061
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 3: start shooting, yeah, shooting.

1062
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 2: By the early thirties, Avery is back on top, and

1063
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: we were going to talk about what he does next.

1064
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 2: But you know who's never not been on top? O

1065
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 2: the sponsors of this motherfucking podcast.

1066
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 3: That's right, they started from the top, still at the top.

1067
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 3: That's right.

1068
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 2: We're gonna buy some socks or I don't know, I

1069
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 2: don't know what the product is.

1070
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 3: Could be, it.

1071
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 2: Could be the Washington State Highway Patrol. Either one, we're

1072
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 2: back by the early thirties. He's rich again. I assume

1073
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 2: that seems to be when he got rich again. It's

1074
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 2: a little unclear. I don't have access to the man's

1075
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 2: bank statements. Either way, he does get rich again. When

1076
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 2: he dies, he's worth like twenty million dollars. He seems

1077
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 2: to have credited his love of the Olympics and sportsmanship

1078
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 2: with instilling in him the values that made his recovery possible.

1079
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: But he was worried despite the fact that things are

1080
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 2: doing better for him. He's worried about the growth of

1081
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 2: sinister socialist movements in Russia and beyond. At the same time,

1082
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: he finds himself intrigued by a new political strain in Germany.

1083
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 2: This Hitler chip has some interesting ideas. Fucking hey, why

1084
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 2: does it always go back to Hitler?

1085
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 3: Robert Now?

1086
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 2: Part of why it goes back to Hitler is that

1087
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 2: Brundage is like an Olympics worshiper, and he he comes

1088
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 2: to see the Olympics in somewhat eugenic terms, and in fact,

1089
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 2: he seems to have felt about athletes the way Hitler

1090
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 2: felt towards Germans and I'm going to quote from Guy

1091
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 2: Walters here. Brundage also saw an olympism an enshrinement of

1092
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 2: his own racist ideals, ideals he shared with the Chicago

1093
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 2: Association of Commerce in November nineteen twenty nine. Perhaps we

1094
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 2: are about to witness the development of a new race,

1095
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 2: A race of men actuated by the principles of sportsmanship

1096
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,240
Speaker 2: learned on the playing field, refusing to tolerate different conditions

1097
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 2: than the other enterprises of life. A race physically strong,

1098
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 2: mentally alert, and morally sound. A race not to be

1099
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 2: imposed upon because it is ready to fight for right

1100
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 2: and physically prepared to do so. A race quick to

1101
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 2: help an adversary beaten in fair combat, yet fearlessly resenting

1102
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 2: in justice or unfair advantage.

1103
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 3: Yes, such a short trip from race walking to race science.

1104
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's less than eight hundred and eighty yards. For sure.

1105
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 3: It's a problem with it, you know, just the word

1106
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 3: itself being you're super into race, that's how you become racist.

1107
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 3: God damn it. Great stuff Like I it's it's just

1108
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,919
Speaker 3: I don't want to say I get it, but it's

1109
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 3: like it's one of those things where you just I

1110
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 3: whenever people this is a problem I have with the

1111
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 3: Olympics and general that makes me uncomfortable is there is

1112
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 3: something of a you know, when they say like yeah,

1113
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 3: all the nations you know are competing and whatnot, it

1114
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 3: does feel somewhat like race wars the sport. Yeah, it

1115
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 3: has that element to it a little bit.

1116
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: And then it's always made me feel icky. And there's

1117
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 2: this this other thing that, like the Olympics, to Koper

1118
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 2: teen seems to legitimately have come by his I think

1119
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 2: that this could help us, you know, get past war

1120
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 2: as a society, and I respect those utopian ideas, but

1121
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 2: it does seem like we eventually walk back around to like, well,

1122
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 2: this isn't literally war, but like what do you do

1123
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 2: in war? Well, you heard a lot of kids. And

1124
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 2: I think about like Larry Nasser molests He's not the

1125
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 2: only he's not the only gymnastics coach to have done that.

1126
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 2: And certainly I think about like, oh, you know, the

1127
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 2: the the systematic mistreatment and abuse of young men as

1128
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 2: foot soldis. I think about stuff like you know, Soviet

1129
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 2: Union doping athletes or like athletes doping, it all sorts

1130
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 2: of countries, right, like yeah, this this obsessive need like well,

1131
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 2: we have to win, and anything that we have to

1132
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 2: do to these these athletes in order to allow them

1133
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 2: to win is okay. So let's shoot them up with

1134
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 2: whatever the fuck we could shoot them up with, right.

1135
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 3: And creating a lot of this and the shaming of people,

1136
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 3: you know of like athletes, and they're trying to like

1137
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 3: ban fucking at the Olympic village.

1138
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 2: There is the one great thing about the Olympics. That's

1139
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 2: why you get good at sports, right, yes, you can

1140
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 2: eventually someday, nobody some sort of village. Nobody ever became

1141
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 2: the best at a sport to not get laid, I'll say,

1142
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 2: exactly right. Going on, So, the fact that Avery is

1143
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 2: kind of arriving at race science by a way of

1144
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 2: here to tell walking yeah, leads him to occupy an

1145
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 2: awkward cultural position as Hitler takes power in Germany. Before

1146
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 2: Hitler's election, the nineteen thirty six Olympics had again been

1147
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 2: promised to Berlin. After Hitler comes to power, many Americans,

1148
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 2: a lot of them are Jewish American athletes, but not exclusively.

1149
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 2: There's a lot of just people who don't like Nazis

1150
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: decided like, well, now the Nazis are in charge, we

1151
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,919
Speaker 2: shouldn't participate in these Olympic Games, right, because it will

1152
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 2: normalize the Third Reich and its oppression of its Jewish citizens,

1153
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: and not just the Jewish the there's a lot of

1154
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 2: people who are because it's not just Jewish citizens being oppressed,

1155
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 2: but in general, the Third Reich is doing a lot

1156
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 2: of terrible shit, and if we show up there to

1157
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: play the games will kind of be handing them a

1158
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 2: win and legitimizing the regime. And we shouldn't, right, right,

1159
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 2: A lot of people are arguing this enrages Avery. His

1160
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 2: most prince rigid principle is that the Olympics should never

1161
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 2: be political. Now, of course that's not really true, that's

1162
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 2: what he says. But the way Avery treats the Olympics

1163
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 2: is deeply political. He just because whenever he's thinking about

1164
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 2: something he believes deeply, he doesn't consider that politics.

1165
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 3: Right, it's not politics, that's just his that's just reality.

1166
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 3: Everyone else is just is just perverting his reality, which

1167
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 3: is the only true reality.

1168
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want to I want to quote again

1169
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: from that Berlin Olympics book quote. He also frequently insisted

1170
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 2: that more than the future of amateur sport was at

1171
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 2: stake and shielding sport from political manipulation upon sport for

1172
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 2: sports sake depended the healthy psychological valuation of individual effort

1173
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 2: and excellence that was at the very heart of a

1174
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 2: democratic way of life. Moreover, fit bodies and competitive spirits were,

1175
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 2: in Brundage's view, essential to the continued success of American

1176
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 2: capitalism at home and abroad. But we never acknowledged the

1177
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 2: political coloring of his vision of the Olympics. He regarded

1178
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 2: them as a kind of international mission for spreading democratic

1179
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 2: values and the continuing ideological battle between communism and the

1180
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 2: American way of life.

1181
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's not political.

1182
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 2: That's the natural. That's a natural state. That's just fine,

1183
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 2: it's just normal stuff. Now, that's not politics, right, right, Yeah.

1184
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 3: God is a capitalist. Reality is a capitalist, right, Communism

1185
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 3: is the devil.

1186
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 1: And most people who self identify as a political or

1187
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: the most political people I've ever met in my entire life.

1188
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 2: Yes, right, of.

1189
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 3: Course, that's like, you know, it's the height of privilege.

1190
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 3: Is the a political nature of your viewpoint when you're

1191
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 3: just like, oh, I don't know, I've always felt like

1192
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 3: politics is weird. Status quo always seems cool and great.

1193
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I back when I lived out in

1194
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere, I ran into one guy who

1195
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 2: identified as a political and actually was. And the reason

1196
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 2: why I believe him is when I told him that

1197
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton was running for president, he was like, wasn't

1198
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 2: a Clinton just president?

1199
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1200
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 2: And I was like, and it like, did not seem

1201
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 2: to be aware of the Bush years. But this was

1202
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 2: a man who had been out in the mountains that

1203
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 2: entire time, not really aware, just kind of missed like

1204
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 2: sixteen years.

1205
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, No, if you're going to be a

1206
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 3: political you have to be like almost literally living.

1207
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 2: Under a ruck.

1208
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 3: No.

1209
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 2: No, I literally have not talked to anyone in twenty years.

1210
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 3: All my best friends are animals. I really don't know

1211
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 3: what's politics now, You, in fact, are a political sir.

1212
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 2: Wow, all right, so Matt to plug.

1213
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 3: Well, if you are an a political person like me,

1214
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 3: I yeah, no. I have a new podcast out there

1215
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 3: called Bad has Bara, the World's most moral podcast, in

1216
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,919
Speaker 3: which me and some great guests we talk about what's

1217
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 3: going on in Israel and we break down some of

1218
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 3: the hilarious new propaganda that seems to be dropping on

1219
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 3: a daily fucking basis. So yeah, if you want to

1220
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 3: you know.

1221
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 2: Check that out.

1222
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 3: You can get it wherever you know podcasts are given

1223
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 3: away for free, or go to YouTube and type in

1224
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 3: bad has Bara. The channel is called frotcast because I

1225
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 3: used my old YouTube channel that no one watched and

1226
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 3: I started posting on there and now it's now it's

1227
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 3: mostly bad has Bara content, but proadcast is the name

1228
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 3: of the channel. Can I change it? Probably will?

1229
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 2: I know, I don't know how youtubes work.

1230
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 3: It's f R O T C A S T that's

1231
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 3: the name of the channel. And the podcast again is

1232
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 3: called bad has Barra h A S B A R.

1233
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 2: Hey check it out. All right.

1234
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1235
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia

1236
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1237
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.